[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We flew to Bangkok and we spent the night in Bangkok, and I remember being kind of amused that nobody was really taking, you know, this big group of 58 people and they were like, here your plane tickets get to camp, you know, and I kind of thought somebody was going to come with us or, you know, but no they kind of we all kind of like elected one person.

[Assistant] You just went by yourself.

[User] Mm hmm. And Rich Durham was our one guy that we said, you're going to show us through the airport. And he, you know, was of our cohort and just kind of guided us all through the airport.

[Assistant] That's really interesting. So had the group for what you, you are not tuned in, but had the group formed as a group?

[User] Yeah, I think so. I remember sitting, you know, in a couple of airports and we all kind of in the waiting, you know, in the gates waiting for our planes and people were chatting and playing games and I was kind of like I was trying to sleep. But I remember people kind of were bonding at that point. And yeah, I was trying to get through, get through the trip.

[Assistant] Ok, so you got to Bangkok and then what happened in Bangkok?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just in that first couple of weeks, they taught us like how to say our name and how to say how old we were and like some common greetings.

[Assistant] And this was in Phnom Penh?

[User] Yeah, in the capital.

[Assistant] So you got dropped off.

[User] I got dropped off. I was trying really hard to tell my host family that it was my birthday. I didn't know the word for birthday, but I knew how to say today and yesterday, and I knew how to say 22 and 23. And so I was trying to say today I'm 23, but yesterday I was 22. And it really it was not getting across and I realized later, I learned later that people in Cambodia don't celebrate birthdays. They all turn the next year on the new year, so they don't even celebrate individual birthdays. They kind of do now because it's a little more westernized, but they traditionally do not. And so not only was my.

[Assistant] Did they celebrate birthdays at all because in lots of countries they don't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, in the capital.

[Assistant] So you got dropped off.

[User] I got dropped off. I was trying really hard to tell my host family that it was my birthday. I didn't know the word for birthday, but I knew how to say today and yesterday, and I knew how to say 22 and 23. And so I was trying to say today I'm 23, but yesterday I was 22. And it really it was not getting across and I realized later, I learned later that people in Cambodia don't celebrate birthdays. They all turn the next year on the new year, so they don't even celebrate individual birthdays. They kind of do now because it's a little more westernized, but they traditionally do not. And so not only was my.

[Assistant] Did they celebrate birthdays at all because in lots of countries they don't.

[User] Not really. I mean, a little bit now, though sometimes people will get a cake for little kids. They will for like, you know, if you're under like three, you'll get a you'll get a you'll get a kind of a birthday party. But no, no. And I didn't like, my Khmer was not good enough to say what I was talking about, but also culturally, it wasn't going to translate regardless of, you know, how I said it.

[Assistant] So you then lived with this family for a couple of months and what was the training? I guess two questions, what was life living with this family and then what was the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it doesn't read linearly in any way. It kind of like depends on whether it's a vowel or a consonant and kind of wrap around each other and they don't go in order. I know like if I see a word and I know what it says, I can figure out how the letters make that sound. But it's not an easy language to learn. So we learned everything phonetically and we learned a lot of like health, health based words to help us with our jobs.

[Assistant] So did you think your training was good?

[User] Basically, I thought my language training well, I think the technical training was not great because they were still trying to figure out the program. The language training, I thought, was excellent, but I also learned how to speak Khmer in southern Cambodia and then I got placed in northern Cambodia.

[Assistant] It's different.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It's different accent or different words?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Basically, I thought my language training well, I think the technical training was not great because they were still trying to figure out the program. The language training, I thought, was excellent, but I also learned how to speak Khmer in southern Cambodia and then I got placed in northern Cambodia.

[Assistant] It's different.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It's different accent or different words?

[User] Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up.

[Assistant] So it's that different.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] It's different accent or different words?

[User] Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up.

[Assistant] So it's that different.

[User] Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces.

[Assistant] So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up.

[Assistant] So it's that different.

[User] Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces.

[Assistant] So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?

[User] So there were there were there were still 58 of us. We all made it through training. I think we were challenged a little bit because our Peace Corps country director said nobody ever no class ever makes it through training with all of their members. And so we all did. Of course, a couple of people dropped off like the next week. But at that point there was all of us were still there.

[Assistant] So people dropped off as opposed to being deselected, for example.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces.

[Assistant] So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?

[User] So there were there were there were still 58 of us. We all made it through training. I think we were challenged a little bit because our Peace Corps country director said nobody ever no class ever makes it through training with all of their members. And so we all did. Of course, a couple of people dropped off like the next week. But at that point there was all of us were still there.

[Assistant] So people dropped off as opposed to being deselected, for example.

[User] Right. Yeah, no, that was all. I'm not sure that anybody left non-voluntarily, but there were, yeah, there were a few. I think we lost, um, by the end, when we did close of service, I think there were only 45 of us. I think we lost almost a quarter of our group after, before the two years were up. Several right at the beginning and then a few kind of at the end for a variety of reasons, they just, you know, health or they were going back to grad school or family stuff. Different reasons towards the end.

[Assistant] Life. Ok, so where were you placed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah, no, that was all. I'm not sure that anybody left non-voluntarily, but there were, yeah, there were a few. I think we lost, um, by the end, when we did close of service, I think there were only 45 of us. I think we lost almost a quarter of our group after, before the two years were up. Several right at the beginning and then a few kind of at the end for a variety of reasons, they just, you know, health or they were going back to grad school or family stuff. Different reasons towards the end.

[Assistant] Life. Ok, so where were you placed?

[User] I was placed in Siem Reap province. Siem Reap is the province where the Angkor Wat is, which is one of the, I don't think it's one of the seven wonders, but I think people call it like number eight. Maybe the seventh one. I don't know. It's this beautiful, yeah, beautiful temple complex. I was about 40 kilometers outside to the east. Siem Reap, everybody knows that province because that's where all the temples are, but it's actually one of the poorest provinces in the country. And so I lived in a pretty small village and it was pretty great because I was like a couple of hours by bike from the city so I could go in if I wanted to.

[Assistant] On bike?

[User] Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix.

[Assistant] Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was placed in Siem Reap province. Siem Reap is the province where the Angkor Wat is, which is one of the, I don't think it's one of the seven wonders, but I think people call it like number eight. Maybe the seventh one. I don't know. It's this beautiful, yeah, beautiful temple complex. I was about 40 kilometers outside to the east. Siem Reap, everybody knows that province because that's where all the temples are, but it's actually one of the poorest provinces in the country. And so I lived in a pretty small village and it was pretty great because I was like a couple of hours by bike from the city so I could go in if I wanted to.

[Assistant] On bike?

[User] Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix.

[Assistant] Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes.

[User] Yeah, it's got a certain seedy charm to it.

[Assistant] So what was the town you were in like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix.

[Assistant] Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes.

[User] Yeah, it's got a certain seedy charm to it.

[Assistant] So what was the town you were in like?

[User] It was, it's called Samrong and it was small. But we had a high school. It was kind of bigger than some of the villages around us. We had the health center and we had the high school in the high school was new. The high school had only been open like five years. And there were kind of like, how many villages did we, like our health center covered like nine villages and each of the villages had less than a thousand people. And I think total there were like 7,000 people in the kind of district that we covered, and I lived right in the middle of them. I lived right across the street from the health center with a family.

[Assistant] How did you end up with that family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did Peace Corps help you with any of this?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So did Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?

[User] They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me.

[Assistant] So they don't come and your director didn't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So did Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?

[User] They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me.

[Assistant] So they don't come and your director didn't.

[User] My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me.

[Assistant] So they don't come and your director didn't.

[User] My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me.

[Assistant] The Peace Corps director?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?

[User] He came out once, too. Um, but I just remember thinking everybody else got visited a lot, and I think they all, both the people came out to see me once and I kind of was like, I wasn't near any other volunteers. I think like they'd go and they'd visit a bunch of volunteers at a time, and I was kind of by myself. And so nobody came out to see me, which was, I mean, I didn't care.

[Assistant] You didn't care?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?

[User] He came out once, too. Um, but I just remember thinking everybody else got visited a lot, and I think they all, both the people came out to see me once and I kind of was like, I wasn't near any other volunteers. I think like they'd go and they'd visit a bunch of volunteers at a time, and I was kind of by myself. And so nobody came out to see me, which was, I mean, I didn't care.

[Assistant] You didn't care?

[User] Yeah, I mean, I like it was I think I had expected in training to understand what I was supposed to be doing. And once I realized that I was not going to know from training what I was supposed to be doing, I kind of just figured it out.

[Assistant] So what did you figure out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I, my Peace Corps mantra that I repeated to myself throughout the day was I'm doing the best that I can because I really felt like. I really felt like I should have been better prepared or I wasn't doing good enough or I wasn't trying hard enough. But I didn't know how to do any better than I was doing. And so I think, yeah, I think I was figuring out that as fast as I could and the best ways that I could.

[Assistant] So is that a good thing or should have gotten more training? I'm not saying you should have.

[User] Yeah, I think my biggest my biggest hurdle was that I just had no idea what to do. I think it would have been better to have had some sort of like preliminary assignments in like a concrete way where, you know, our directors were coming and saying, OK, you were supposed to go out and do this community survey. How that go? Or something. And I just I really just I had no idea what to do when I showed up.

[Assistant] So were you depressed by that, anxious?

[User] Oh yeah, I was. Oh yeah, all of the above. Just really, really scared and stressed and felt like I wasn't. I mean, I felt really guilty a lot. I felt like I just wasn't trying hard enough that I wasn't doing enough. It was very, very, very stressful.

[Assistant] And how did you deal with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, I was. Oh yeah, all of the above. Just really, really scared and stressed and felt like I wasn't. I mean, I felt really guilty a lot. I felt like I just wasn't trying hard enough that I wasn't doing enough. It was very, very, very stressful.

[Assistant] And how did you deal with that?

[User] Being social was always the best thing for me. If I went out and try to practice my Khmer and talk to people that always made me feel like I was. You know, I'd come from a job that I was really good at and I knew how to do, and I was productive and successful, and I came to this job where I had no idea what to do and I was not being productive. And so any time I felt like I was being productive, that was. And, you know, it turns out my most like kind of think productive aspect of my Peace Corps service was talking to people. And I taught English lessons to my host kids on the front porch. And, you know, any time I felt like I was being useful, it was what helped the most. And then kind of the unhealthy coping mechanism was me, like retreating into my room and just like kind of hiding. I did a lot of that. I read a lot. I read. I always read a lot, but with infinite amounts of time on my hands, I read like three books a week. And that was that was not that, because then any time I would like hide, that would make me feel even more guilty about not being productive. So I tried to, I tried to do that less and less.

[Assistant] Did you talk to other volunteers about that?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did they have similar experiences?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Being social was always the best thing for me. If I went out and try to practice my Khmer and talk to people that always made me feel like I was. You know, I'd come from a job that I was really good at and I knew how to do, and I was productive and successful, and I came to this job where I had no idea what to do and I was not being productive. And so any time I felt like I was being productive, that was. And, you know, it turns out my most like kind of think productive aspect of my Peace Corps service was talking to people. And I taught English lessons to my host kids on the front porch. And, you know, any time I felt like I was being useful, it was what helped the most. And then kind of the unhealthy coping mechanism was me, like retreating into my room and just like kind of hiding. I did a lot of that. I read a lot. I read. I always read a lot, but with infinite amounts of time on my hands, I read like three books a week. And that was that was not that, because then any time I would like hide, that would make me feel even more guilty about not being productive. So I tried to, I tried to do that less and less.

[Assistant] Did you talk to other volunteers about that?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did they have similar experiences?

[User] Well, yeah, I think.

[Assistant] Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did they have similar experiences?

[User] Well, yeah, I think.

[Assistant] Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?

[User] Yes, but not really, because it made me feel better because I wasn't the only one, but it also didn't solve the problem. But that was, I think, you know, and I think part of it, too, was that I couldn't speak the language very well, and I eventually got to a point where I was teaching health lessons in Khmer and, you know, and chatting with people. But especially at the beginning, you kind of when you don't speak a language very well, it's always an effort to talk. And so you just stop talking as much. You don't come home and say, hey, how was your day? Would you do? Tell me about it. Because it's hard and it's hard for me, but it's also hard for my family because I'm watching them not understand me and like them, kind of like struggling to. It's just. I remember my eight-year-old sister at one point. Because everybody was so nice to me about it and they'd like, try and understand what I was saying. And I remember my host sister at one point, just like after like me struggling to say something for like several minutes, like threw her hands up in the air, just like huh! And walked away. And I was like, yeah, I know. That's how everybody feels. I'm sorry.

[Assistant] So it's hard for them and hard for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yeah, I think.

[Assistant] Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?

[User] Yes, but not really, because it made me feel better because I wasn't the only one, but it also didn't solve the problem. But that was, I think, you know, and I think part of it, too, was that I couldn't speak the language very well, and I eventually got to a point where I was teaching health lessons in Khmer and, you know, and chatting with people. But especially at the beginning, you kind of when you don't speak a language very well, it's always an effort to talk. And so you just stop talking as much. You don't come home and say, hey, how was your day? Would you do? Tell me about it. Because it's hard and it's hard for me, but it's also hard for my family because I'm watching them not understand me and like them, kind of like struggling to. It's just. I remember my eight-year-old sister at one point. Because everybody was so nice to me about it and they'd like, try and understand what I was saying. And I remember my host sister at one point, just like after like me struggling to say something for like several minutes, like threw her hands up in the air, just like huh! And walked away. And I was like, yeah, I know. That's how everybody feels. I'm sorry.

[Assistant] So it's hard for them and hard for you.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] That in itself as a lesson, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] That in itself as a lesson, right?

[User] Right. Yeah, it was not just me. It was like, I'm sure I put a lot of stress on this family too. Well, especially at first. Like, I was super concerned about my dad back home. I didn't know it was like what was going to happen, and I was really stressed out about being here and not being able to speak to anybody. And I know that they, I mean, I know they worried about me. You know, I was the first volunteer in my village and they didn't know what I would eat. They didn't know what I liked. They, you know, they were trying very hard to make me feel comfortable. And I know that them stressing over that was making, you know, adding a lot to their plate, too. And that stressed me out.

[Assistant] So was this a good thing overall?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So why was it a good thing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah, it was not just me. It was like, I'm sure I put a lot of stress on this family too. Well, especially at first. Like, I was super concerned about my dad back home. I didn't know it was like what was going to happen, and I was really stressed out about being here and not being able to speak to anybody. And I know that they, I mean, I know they worried about me. You know, I was the first volunteer in my village and they didn't know what I would eat. They didn't know what I liked. They, you know, they were trying very hard to make me feel comfortable. And I know that them stressing over that was making, you know, adding a lot to their plate, too. And that stressed me out.

[Assistant] So was this a good thing overall?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So why was it a good thing?

[User] I mean, the biggest thing was my host family. I was super close to them. They're so wonderful. I think my host sister I was closest to because she was 14, so she was, you know, slightly closer to my age than anybody else was. My host mom worked a lot and we're close too, but I think I spent the most time hanging out with Vennay. She was just she said she was just like such a teenage girl. She had boyfriends and she liked clothes.

[Assistant] And you could relate to that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So why was it a good thing?

[User] I mean, the biggest thing was my host family. I was super close to them. They're so wonderful. I think my host sister I was closest to because she was 14, so she was, you know, slightly closer to my age than anybody else was. My host mom worked a lot and we're close too, but I think I spent the most time hanging out with Vennay. She was just she said she was just like such a teenage girl. She had boyfriends and she liked clothes.

[Assistant] And you could relate to that.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, I could remember being 14. And yeah, and then Vennut, my host brother, is just like the coolest kid ever. He's so curious. He was always bringing home like an instrument from school or a new book, or he'd always run into the house. You don't call people by their name in Cambodia. You call them by their like an honorific, you say aunt or older sister. And so my name in Cambodia was from my host kids was Bong, Bong Sally. And Bong means older. And so he'd always run into the house after school, run up the steps and say, Bong Bong! Look what I learned today, or look what I can do. Or do you know what this is? He is such a cool kid and just super curious and really good at school. So he was always fun to hang out with. And then my younger host sister, she. I've never had younger siblings, so I never was very good at interacting with kids, and she kind of was in her own room. So we didn't hang out then.

[Assistant] How old was she?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was eight. She and I did not hang out that much. She was, she watched TV a lot and it's funny. I've been back to visit and she's gotten really good at school and is doing really well now. Cambodian kids have this tendency to, like, be really, really terrible kids where they run all over the place and don't listen anybody. And then at like 10, they kind of like snap out of it and they're like, these perfect tiny humans who just like, do all the dishes and help with everything. And I think she was kind of in that stage right before that where she was kind of like, I didn't know what to do with her. She didn't know what to do with me.

[Assistant] And you've stayed in touch with the family?

[User] Yeah. We're on, uh. When I left, Vennay was the only one with a Facebook, so she and I kind of corresponded and then Vennut got a Facebook, and recently my host mom got a Facebook. So we've stayed in touch, and I've been back to visit once, about two years after I left. And so Vennay got married, she dropped out of school and got married right after I left, which I was like.

[Assistant] Not good, not good.

[User] Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl.

[Assistant] That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. We're on, uh. When I left, Vennay was the only one with a Facebook, so she and I kind of corresponded and then Vennut got a Facebook, and recently my host mom got a Facebook. So we've stayed in touch, and I've been back to visit once, about two years after I left. And so Vennay got married, she dropped out of school and got married right after I left, which I was like.

[Assistant] Not good, not good.

[User] Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl.

[Assistant] That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?

[User] I haven't really in any sort of like communicative way, but when I went back, I mean, there's several people that I was very close with it, like my English tutor or my my tutor, who was the English teacher at the school and young Dom, the village health volunteer that I worked with on the agriculture project and my health center director, and then several of my students from the high school that I'm pretty close with.

[Assistant] Do you think your expectations were too high for what you could do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl.

[Assistant] That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?

[User] I haven't really in any sort of like communicative way, but when I went back, I mean, there's several people that I was very close with it, like my English tutor or my my tutor, who was the English teacher at the school and young Dom, the village health volunteer that I worked with on the agriculture project and my health center director, and then several of my students from the high school that I'm pretty close with.

[Assistant] Do you think your expectations were too high for what you could do?

[User] Oh yeah. I think kind of like I mentioned, I was really good at my job before I left and I thought that I could kind of perform at a similar level. And, you know, I mean, the part of the thing was, I didn't know I was having to completely retrain and not only a new job, but a culture and a language. And in this world, that was totally different than I knew how to function in.

[Assistant] So is that a good thing for Peace Corps? Should it be structuring the job more so that you can be more productive?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I think just the relationships and not only with my host family and the my other friends in the village, but, you know, also one part of Peace Corps I didn't expect is that I was going to have this big cohort of Americans. And not only was I learning about Cambodian culture, I was learning about like, you know, we were from all over the states. And, you know, I learned things about how people lived in Minnesota. Like I was learning all this American culture, too that I hadn't really expected to learn. And you know, and I think Peace Corps, the biggest part of my quote unquote Peace Corps life now is, still really, really good friends with [noise]. Squirrel, do you think?

[Assistant] I don't know.

[User] Ok. Weird. Things in the walls. I mean is the biggest part of my post Peace Corps life is continuing to engage with Peace Corps as all of my really wonderful friends that I have from Peace Corps. And then the lessons that I learned from Peace Corps. I love continuing to hang out with Peace Corps people because Peace Corps people kind of have this like mentality about them, that super flex, you know, you can kind of anything goes. [noise] I'm waiting for it to fall through the ceiling.

[Assistant] For those of you, for the interview, we are sitting in a room and there is noise in the ceiling of an animal moving around. And we are somewhat distracted.

[User] I was watching a squirrel on the roof a minute ago, which is making me think that it's probably a squirrel.

[Assistant] Ok, but that's part of the Peace Corps experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ok. Weird. Things in the walls. I mean is the biggest part of my post Peace Corps life is continuing to engage with Peace Corps as all of my really wonderful friends that I have from Peace Corps. And then the lessons that I learned from Peace Corps. I love continuing to hang out with Peace Corps people because Peace Corps people kind of have this like mentality about them, that super flex, you know, you can kind of anything goes. [noise] I'm waiting for it to fall through the ceiling.

[Assistant] For those of you, for the interview, we are sitting in a room and there is noise in the ceiling of an animal moving around. And we are somewhat distracted.

[User] I was watching a squirrel on the roof a minute ago, which is making me think that it's probably a squirrel.

[Assistant] Ok, but that's part of the Peace Corps experience.

[User] Yes. But see, this is kind of like, you know, Peace Corps people going, oh all right, there's a squirrel in the ceiling. So that kind of that shift in mentality of, you know, me getting on that bike to go down and find the health volunteer and having no idea where I was going, I feel like, I can do anything really if I want to. And I think Peace Corps volunteers tend to think that. And being OK with being uncomfortable because I spent so much of my time there, you know, like people would bring me to like a ceremony or a party and they would like sit me down on the ground somewhere and like, leave me and I'd be there. I remember the first few times that happened I was so uncomfortable, and I'd wish that I had a book to read or something to do. And after a while, you just you kind of get used to being plopped down places and you're just thinking, staring into space, you know, observing. Occasionally people will come up to you and talk or I'll, you know, go over and start getting involved in the food prep or whatever, but just having the ability to be totally fine with ambiguity and discomfort.

[Assistant] And how has that played out in your life since Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it's enabled me to. I mean, it's that those skills are so applicable to life anywhere. I was always, I grew up a really shy kid, and I kind of had to figure that out. By the time I got through college, I'd kind of gotten over that because I kind of realized how the world worked and how I was supposed to interact with people in a way that wasn't going to be uncomfortable. And then I showed up in Cambodia and I was like, oh I don't know how anything works. Like, I was back to square one. I was like having to relearn how to interact with the world. And I think that's kind of pushed me completely beyond any sort of like, I can, I can. And I think this is a common Peace Corps adage. But you know, if I can stand up and put like a condom on a wooden penis in front of like a room full of teenagers in a language that is not my third or fourth language.

[Assistant] And feel comfortable?

[User] Yeah, I can do anything.

[Assistant] That's great. So reflecting back, so did you have vacations? Did you travel as well? Where did you go?

[User] I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was.

[Assistant] Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I can do anything.

[Assistant] That's great. So reflecting back, so did you have vacations? Did you travel as well? Where did you go?

[User] I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was.

[Assistant] Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?

[User] Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home.

[Assistant] So you were allowed to go to Europe?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was.

[Assistant] Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?

[User] Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home.

[Assistant] So you were allowed to go to Europe?

[User] Outside the country, yeah. You just took leave. We got as Peace Corps volunteers, we had very generous leave allowances. I can't remember how much we like two days a month or something. So it was a bunch. I went home for a month, actually pretty soon after I got there. It was when my dad was getting like a major treatment for cancer. And so I went home for a month for right after Thanksgiving in between Christmas.

[Assistant] Was that a jarring experience going back and forth?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home.

[Assistant] So you were allowed to go to Europe?

[User] Outside the country, yeah. You just took leave. We got as Peace Corps volunteers, we had very generous leave allowances. I can't remember how much we like two days a month or something. So it was a bunch. I went home for a month, actually pretty soon after I got there. It was when my dad was getting like a major treatment for cancer. And so I went home for a month for right after Thanksgiving in between Christmas.

[Assistant] Was that a jarring experience going back and forth?

[User] Not, I think, right then because it was so soon it was like it was like four months after I'd got there, so it got in there. So it was pretty early on. It wasn't really that big of a deal. Coming like coming back after words was hugely jarring, but that early on it was, I think it was still kind of normal.

[Assistant] What was so jarring coming back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A while.

[Assistant] Does it continue?

[User] Not really. Not really. I've been back for four years, and I think it's kind of dissipated, but I didn't go to, I kind of traveled. I traveled for like a year after I got back. And so I think if I'd been thrown into school or work, I would have been forced to get over it a little bit quicker. But since I wasn't, I didn't get over it.

[Assistant] Where did you travel?

[User] There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to.

[Assistant] You came home and then you went back to Asia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not really. Not really. I've been back for four years, and I think it's kind of dissipated, but I didn't go to, I kind of traveled. I traveled for like a year after I got back. And so I think if I'd been thrown into school or work, I would have been forced to get over it a little bit quicker. But since I wasn't, I didn't get over it.

[Assistant] Where did you travel?

[User] There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to.

[Assistant] You came home and then you went back to Asia?

[User] No, we stayed for like three or four months and we went to Nepal and India and Burma and Thailand. And then I came back and me and another friend who had kind of, had signed up together but she went to Burkina Faso and I went to Cambodia. So she got back and then we went to Germany and France and Austria, Switzerland. And then I traveled around the states a lot. I went and saw all of my friends around the states that I hadn't seen in, you know, a couple of years.

[Assistant] So after all that travel, then what did you do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to.

[Assistant] You came home and then you went back to Asia?

[User] No, we stayed for like three or four months and we went to Nepal and India and Burma and Thailand. And then I came back and me and another friend who had kind of, had signed up together but she went to Burkina Faso and I went to Cambodia. So she got back and then we went to Germany and France and Austria, Switzerland. And then I traveled around the states a lot. I went and saw all of my friends around the states that I hadn't seen in, you know, a couple of years.

[Assistant] So after all that travel, then what did you do?

[User] So I got. It was like to the day a year after I had finished service because I got a job using my noncompetitive eligibility status. I one of my friends actually, that I had traveled with and had done Peace Corps at the same time I did was working for Peace Corps headquarters and she sent me this job list and she said, hey look, there's a Department of Commerce job in Austin. You should look at it. And it was an economic development specialist which sounded really smart and it was NCE. And so I essentially.

[Assistant] Does that mean? Explain what that means.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I got. It was like to the day a year after I had finished service because I got a job using my noncompetitive eligibility status. I one of my friends actually, that I had traveled with and had done Peace Corps at the same time I did was working for Peace Corps headquarters and she sent me this job list and she said, hey look, there's a Department of Commerce job in Austin. You should look at it. And it was an economic development specialist which sounded really smart and it was NCE. And so I essentially.

[Assistant] Does that mean? Explain what that means.

[User] Noncompetitive eligibility is so returned Peace Corps volunteers have a year to have, they have essentially preferential federal hiring. The federal hiring process is absurdly onerous to try and get through, and the way the NCE works is for a year, they can just hire you without having to go through the competitive process of hiring a federal applicant, which is great because it favors veterans, so they get a lot of points. But if you're not a veteran, it's really difficult to get a job with the federal government. And so I saw this and I saw that I knew that my NCE status was about to expire and the job posting was about to expire. And so I just called up somebody from the Austin office and I said, hey can we get coffee? And I explained to him who I was and this hiring preference and why I was qualified for the job. And I had a job offer later that day, which was incredible. Yeah, I'd gone from like starting out this stressful job search process and I was like, suddenly employed.

[Assistant] And did you stay in that job?

[User] I still have that job.

[Assistant] Oh, you're still in it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Noncompetitive eligibility is so returned Peace Corps volunteers have a year to have, they have essentially preferential federal hiring. The federal hiring process is absurdly onerous to try and get through, and the way the NCE works is for a year, they can just hire you without having to go through the competitive process of hiring a federal applicant, which is great because it favors veterans, so they get a lot of points. But if you're not a veteran, it's really difficult to get a job with the federal government. And so I saw this and I saw that I knew that my NCE status was about to expire and the job posting was about to expire. And so I just called up somebody from the Austin office and I said, hey can we get coffee? And I explained to him who I was and this hiring preference and why I was qualified for the job. And I had a job offer later that day, which was incredible. Yeah, I'd gone from like starting out this stressful job search process and I was like, suddenly employed.

[Assistant] And did you stay in that job?

[User] I still have that job.

[Assistant] Oh, you're still in it.

[User] I still work with the same organization. I do something slightly different, but yeah, I'm still there.

[Assistant] You work for the Department of Commerce in Austin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Yep. So it's the federal Department of Commerce, but it's the Economic Development Administration. And I came in and I was working essentially with I had like a portfolio of grants that I managed. And that's a pretty boring job because a lot of paperwork. But it's a really cool mission because the EDA works with economically distressed communities to do job creation through planning and funding. And so it's very Peace Corps-esque in its mission. And I remember we, early on, we're looking at this project to fund and somebody had gone up to talk with the people who were applying for this for this grant. And the project was this little town in Arkansas that had lost its lumber mill a couple of years before. And all these people had lost their jobs and now were having to commute to other towns or working in a skill set that was not their primary skill set in town and weren't making as much money.

And so my boss in our office went up to talk with him about potentially funding to help reopen the lumber mill. And usually on visits like that, you know, the mayor takes you around or the economic development person takes you around and the representative from the company is there. And it's just like two or three people and they kind of show you what the project is. And this one, they showed up to the site and like the whole town was there. All three hundred employees and their families and like everybody else and they were all there and they're like, you need to fund this. So we did and the lumber mill came back online and those people got their jobs back.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] So it's a really cool organization. And I've been doing the last year or so all our special projects. So I've been building up programs to help, you know, help regions build capacity to help I work in innovation and entrepreneurship. So creating jobs through, you know, people building up their own businesses.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] Yeah, it's a cool job.

[Assistant] Good. What's your ongoing involvement with Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it's a really cool organization. And I've been doing the last year or so all our special projects. So I've been building up programs to help, you know, help regions build capacity to help I work in innovation and entrepreneurship. So creating jobs through, you know, people building up their own businesses.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] Yeah, it's a cool job.

[Assistant] Good. What's your ongoing involvement with Peace Corps?

[User] So I'm the president for the Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association in Austin, Texas. I've been involved in the board there for a couple of years as the incoming or there's the vice president and then the president. And then just for the past year, since January, as the president.

[Assistant] What do you guys do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I'm the president for the Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association in Austin, Texas. I've been involved in the board there for a couple of years as the incoming or there's the vice president and then the president. And then just for the past year, since January, as the president.

[Assistant] What do you guys do?

[User] We have a few different functions. We have social events. So it's a big kind of Peace Corps get together. It was actually one of the first things I did when I came back because I was like terrified of how to deal with America. And so I went and hung out with a Peace Corps group and that was a little, you know, it was kind of like a soft landing pad. We do volunteer events, we do grants, we have a grant fund, we fund active volunteer projects and then we fund other projects that we find are in line with Peace Corps values. And then we're trying to expand our kind of community conversations on cultural understanding. We're really excited and I don't think I'm allowed to tell anybody yet, but this recording isn't going anywhere for the next day, that we're hosting next year's National Peace Corps Conference.

[Assistant] Oh, wonderful.

[User] Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away.

[Assistant] So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We have a few different functions. We have social events. So it's a big kind of Peace Corps get together. It was actually one of the first things I did when I came back because I was like terrified of how to deal with America. And so I went and hung out with a Peace Corps group and that was a little, you know, it was kind of like a soft landing pad. We do volunteer events, we do grants, we have a grant fund, we fund active volunteer projects and then we fund other projects that we find are in line with Peace Corps values. And then we're trying to expand our kind of community conversations on cultural understanding. We're really excited and I don't think I'm allowed to tell anybody yet, but this recording isn't going anywhere for the next day, that we're hosting next year's National Peace Corps Conference.

[Assistant] Oh, wonderful.

[User] Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away.

[Assistant] So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away.

[Assistant] So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States.

[User] I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally.

[Assistant] That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States.

[User] I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally.

[Assistant] That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First.

[Assistant] Lack of cross-cultural.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally.

[Assistant] That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First.

[Assistant] Lack of cross-cultural.

[User] Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that.

[Assistant] Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First.

[Assistant] Lack of cross-cultural.

[User] Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that.

[Assistant] Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?

[User] Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just.

[Assistant] He didn't know all of that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that.

[Assistant] Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?

[User] Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just.

[Assistant] He didn't know all of that.

[User] Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia.

[Assistant] That in itself was a learning experience.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just.

[Assistant] He didn't know all of that.

[User] Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia.

[Assistant] That in itself was a learning experience.

[User] Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge.

[Assistant] So overall, it was a great experience. Good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia.

[Assistant] That in itself was a learning experience.

[User] Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge.

[Assistant] So overall, it was a great experience. Good.

[User] Yeah, it was an awesome experience. I can't imagine having done anything better with my time.

[Assistant] Great. Anything else you want to say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge.

[Assistant] So overall, it was a great experience. Good.

[User] Yeah, it was an awesome experience. I can't imagine having done anything better with my time.

[Assistant] Great. Anything else you want to say?

[User] I don't think so.

[Assistant] Great, so good interview. Thank you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How long have you lived in this area?

[Assistant] Officially since 2001.

[User] Pe-Te’s Cajun Barbecue was still open in 2001. I think he sold it in—well, he sold it to his son in maybe 2004, 2005, and they finally sold it. It closed sometime after I came back. It was a restaurant right across from the main entrance to Ellington Field [Houston, Texas]. I don’t know if you ever saw it there.

[Assistant] I’ve seen it there, and I noticed it was closed. I actually wanted to go at one point.

[User] I’ve been friends with Pe-Te for quite a number of years, and he’s got a radio program on every Saturday morning from six to nine. He is from Louisiana. He’s from Eunice, Louisiana, which is further north, and they call themselves “prairie Cajuns.” His actual name is really Les [Lester] Johnson. He’s a small wiry guy, so when he was a kid, because he was a small fellow, they nicknamed him Pe-Te. Cajun petit, from the French petit. So it’s Pe-Te.

[Assistant] I didn’t know that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I felt pretty good about that.\n\n Another thing, we may have discussed this—again, the psych support people will try to find celebrities or people that you might find interesting, and they’ll try to coordinate a radio hookup, a space-to-ground loop connection to a telephone call. They’ll try to coordinate something like that. They were able to get a linkup for me with J. K. [Joanne “Jo”] Rowling, the author of the Harry Potters. She was very charming. It was a nice thing.\n\n I talked to the Army football head coach. Unfortunately, Army did very badly that year against Navy. I think I talked to the secretary of the Army once. Going back to Lost, my daughter and I would watch the episodes and we’d chat about what was going on. One of the people they linked me up with was an actor named Terry [Terrance] O’Quinn who played this slightly older, bald—one of the castaways, John Locke. I happened to mention that Meg, my younger daughter, was a big fan and she was the one that had gotten them to start sending the episodes to me. He goes, “Oh, really? Give me her phone number, and I’ll call her.” So I did, and he did, so that was a neat thing.

[Assistant] I understand you had a conversation with the Russian Santa Claus, I can’t recall his name.

[User] Not the Santa Claus, the patriarch.

[Assistant] Is that it? Okay.

[User] The patriarch, who’s the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. He’s the Russian Orthodox counterpart to the [Roman catholic] pope.

[Assistant] I also had read that you linked up with Paul McCartney. Kind of a big name.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not the Santa Claus, the patriarch.

[Assistant] Is that it? Okay.

[User] The patriarch, who’s the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. He’s the Russian Orthodox counterpart to the [Roman catholic] pope.

[Assistant] I also had read that you linked up with Paul McCartney. Kind of a big name.

[User] We did. Same younger daughter, she was a next-generation Beatles fan, and she was pretty interested in capitalizing on this ability of Dad to connect with celebrities. They told the psych support folks that “Oh yes, Bill would just love to talk to Paul McCartney” and this, that, and the other.\n\n So I get an e-mail. It’s like “Hey, we understand you’re a big Paul McCartney fan.”\n\n I’m going, “Well, everyone in my generation. I was a Beatles fan. I like his music.” I don’t swoon over him but still.\n\n “Could you write a letter talking about what a big fan you are?”\n\n I said, “Well no, not really. I don’t think we want to go that far, but I’d love to chat with him if it’s something he’s interested in doing.”\n\n I think one of his songs was played as wake-up music for STS-114. Evidently, he was pleased with that and that received some publicity. The counterproposal—and most of these conversations, like the one with Jo Rowling, other celebrities, they are privatized. So that radio transmission is not open for anyone in Mission Control or the public to hear.\n\n The McCartney group asked if we were willing to make an exception to that and do something a little more public. “Sure.” So what we actually did is we actually had a live hookup with his concert in I think it was Anaheim, California. They actually had I think some round TV screens, or round TV projections, behind McCartney on the stage, where the audience could see me and Valery.

[Assistant] That’s really cool. You mentioned your younger daughter was really interested in these kind of things. How old was she at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She had just graduated from college. No, she had just finished two years of grad [graduate] school, so she was like twenty-three, twenty-four.

[Assistant] We’ve talked about talking with celebrities and well-known people. How did you stay in contact with your wife and your daughters?

[User] I phoned home almost every day. We had two IP phone channels at the time. Last I heard they had increased it to four. I have an aviation headset with a boom microphone that you can connect to your laptop. You call up a virtual telephone, and if you have the right satellite bands, if you have Ku-band available, you can make a phone call.\n\n I would call at least one of them virtually every day. This was before high-speed internet was truly ubiquitous. They put in a couple of dedicated high-speed internet lines to the house. I think they also were concerned—they wanted dedicated lines just for security purposes. So we would have a videoconference generally every Sunday.

[Assistant] That’s nice. I’m thinking about the folks who flew on Apollo and Skylab. They had those squawk boxes in their houses.

[User] Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication.

[Assistant] It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I phoned home almost every day. We had two IP phone channels at the time. Last I heard they had increased it to four. I have an aviation headset with a boom microphone that you can connect to your laptop. You call up a virtual telephone, and if you have the right satellite bands, if you have Ku-band available, you can make a phone call.\n\n I would call at least one of them virtually every day. This was before high-speed internet was truly ubiquitous. They put in a couple of dedicated high-speed internet lines to the house. I think they also were concerned—they wanted dedicated lines just for security purposes. So we would have a videoconference generally every Sunday.

[Assistant] That’s nice. I’m thinking about the folks who flew on Apollo and Skylab. They had those squawk boxes in their houses.

[User] Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication.

[Assistant] It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else.

[User] That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well.

[Assistant] We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication.

[Assistant] It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else.

[User] That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well.

[Assistant] We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife.

[User] Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today.

[Assistant] I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well.

[Assistant] We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife.

[User] Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today.

[Assistant] I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling.

[User] Journals.

[Assistant] Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today.

[Assistant] I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling.

[User] Journals.

[Assistant] Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?

[User] No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date.

[Assistant] Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Journals.

[Assistant] Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?

[User] No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date.

[Assistant] Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?

[User] My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything.

[Assistant] Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date.

[Assistant] Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?

[User] My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything.

[Assistant] Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?

[User] I don’t think so.

[Assistant] I just thought that was a very interesting experiment. It wasn’t something that I was expecting to see. Is that something that’s still ongoing now on Station?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything.

[Assistant] Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?

[User] I don’t think so.

[Assistant] I just thought that was a very interesting experiment. It wasn’t something that I was expecting to see. Is that something that’s still ongoing now on Station?

[User] I don’t know.

[Assistant] One of the other experiments that I noticed that you did—and they’re actually available—are a series of videos. They were educational videos that you did of Station.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know.

[Assistant] One of the other experiments that I noticed that you did—and they’re actually available—are a series of videos. They were educational videos that you did of Station.

[User] Right, the head of the Education Projects Office at the time was my wife.

[Assistant] Convenient.

[User] So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\n\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\n\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller.

[Assistant] Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, the head of the Education Projects Office at the time was my wife.

[Assistant] Convenient.

[User] So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\n\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\n\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller.

[Assistant] Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?

[User] I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way.

[Assistant] How long were the pieces?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\n\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\n\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller.

[Assistant] Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?

[User] I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way.

[Assistant] How long were the pieces?

[User] Minutes.

[Assistant] I was looking at some of the titles. Education has them listed by increment, so you can go out and take a look at different aspects of the Space Station, that’s kind of nice.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way.

[Assistant] How long were the pieces?

[User] Minutes.

[Assistant] I was looking at some of the titles. Education has them listed by increment, so you can go out and take a look at different aspects of the Space Station, that’s kind of nice.

[User] In retrospect, there were a couple of things that are unfortunate, but just the way they are. That was Valery and I generally—we did some things together, but a lot of our activities were separate. So if you were going to document with either video or still photography something you were doing, you had to set the camera up. You had to operate the cameras, as well as do whatever the other activity was. So I think we just don’t have quite the depth of photo and video documentation that crews get now.\n\n Plus, we didn’t have high-definition cameras. Some of the external cameras now I guess are high definition. Some of the video we have, like video of EVAs—it reminds me of Apollo video, you know it’s grainy. One of the cameras that was used got some really good footage of our Russian segment EVA, was nicknamed “Pinky” because the video has a pink cast to it.\n\n When the ground processed it for us to use postflight, they were able to convert it to black-and-white, which isn’t great. A lot better than pink, but it’s—I’ve got pink shirts at home. Clothes, pink is good, some of the women I ride with have pink bicycles or at least pink accents on their bicycles. Pink’s a good color, not a good color for EVAs.

[Assistant] I think this might be a good place for us to stop.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay. I started out as an Orbiter test mechanic. Basically that’s a mechanic that will work on the Orbiter. I started before the first Orbiter arrived at Kennedy Space Center, so I started building the servicing panels in a machine shop in the VAB [Vehicle Assembly Building] that would later service the vehicle itself.

[Assistant] This was in 1979?

[User] Yes. Because of the extensive tile work that Rockwell [International Corporation] knew had to be completed on the Orbiter, they took a lot of mechanical and electrical techs [technicians] from KSC, trained them here to do tile work and then loaned us to the Palmdale [California] facility to augment them in working on the vehicle. This was mostly to train us so when the vehicle came here we could finish the tile work. In those days, NASA envisioned the tile to be a onetime job, you install it on the vehicle, and then you never mess with it again for the rest of the Shuttle history.

[Assistant] That didn’t work out, did it?

[User] No, it did not.

[Assistant] Tell us about those days at Palmdale and then how you transition that knowledge here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Because of the extensive tile work that Rockwell [International Corporation] knew had to be completed on the Orbiter, they took a lot of mechanical and electrical techs [technicians] from KSC, trained them here to do tile work and then loaned us to the Palmdale [California] facility to augment them in working on the vehicle. This was mostly to train us so when the vehicle came here we could finish the tile work. In those days, NASA envisioned the tile to be a onetime job, you install it on the vehicle, and then you never mess with it again for the rest of the Shuttle history.

[Assistant] That didn’t work out, did it?

[User] No, it did not.

[Assistant] Tell us about those days at Palmdale and then how you transition that knowledge here.

[User] We were loaned out there. Palmdale was a union shop, and we were not a union shop here, so there was quite a bit of friction. Eventually they allowed us to go to work, so we actually went out, worked on the vehicle, learned how to install the tile on the vehicle, and then we were sent back here to go back to our regular job. When [Space Shuttle] Columbia came here on Easter weekend, most of us were loaned to the OPF to start work on it.\n\n My first function was to actually start receiving the thousands of tile that were going to be shipped here to later be installed on the vehicle. In those days, you had to be a certified tile technician just to handle the tiles, so the logistics folks here weren’t allowed to touch the hardware. Along with a half a dozen other techs and myself, we did the initial receiving of thousands of tiles coming into KSC. Eventually, we trained the logistics folks and certified them to handle the hardware.

[Assistant] How did those get here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn’t have the capability we have today to view the entire Orbiter while in space. We knew we lost some because there were some at the launch pad. So we knew we had lost some tiles. There were many other issues at the launch pad after STS-1. When the vehicle returned and landed at Dryden [Air Force Base, Edwards, California] is when we got the really good look at it and noticed how many tiles were gone.\n\n By then I had been transferred to the forward section, so I became the forward supervisor still when we were processing for STS-1. As a result, we had to remove a little over 400 tile just off of the forward section after STS-1 in preps [preparations] for STS-2. Now, some of those were where we had lost a tile or a portion of the tile. Some of them we removed because the tiles were chipped; others because they broke. There were some tiles that flexed more than they expected, so we had broken tiles.\n\n We had to take tiles off for access. Antennas are installed right over the tile, so if we had a problem with an antenna, then we’d have to remove the tile to get to that. In a lot of areas where the original designers planned for us to open up things, like just to get the side hatch open, we have panels and the tiles bonded to an aluminum panel, we can take the panel off without debonding the tile. People don’t realize it; there’s six hundred doors and panels on this vehicle that come on and off as part of its processing.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yes. You sound like the president now. “Wow.” [laughter] I gave President Obama his tour.

[Assistant] I saw that picture.

[User] Most of his comments were, “Wow. Really? I don’t believe that.”

[Assistant] It’s more and more that we have learned during the years that we’ve been doing this that it doesn’t matter where we go or who we talk to, there’s always one more “wow” that we find, because there are so many intricate pieces that work on that Shuttle.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. It's pretty crazy. I mean, it makes Rome and Athens look like Zurich in terms of organization. I mean, those guys are nuts when it comes to driving. They kind of look like they're following the same laws as we do, but in some ways they have traffic lights sort of in the middles of intersections, and you wouldn't know I saw what I'm sure was a fatal accident there one night driving by, and this guy was just completely he passed us on the right, and his brakes were locked as he passed us, so he was going faster than we were, slowing down, and swerved in front of us and was hit by a car coming in the other direction. I mean, it was pretty eye-opening. And then the roads are just terrible there. Congestion is I mean, it's really a borderline Third World country. It's different.

[Assistant] Did you have much of a commute from where you were with all your duties, or was most everything you did right there?

[User] No. I mean, I walked about fifteen yards from my bedroom to my office.

[Assistant] You could sleep in.

[User] Everybody worked within walking distance from our office. Now, to go into Moscow was a different story. From downtown Moscow to where we work is fifty-six kilometers, so I don't know what that is, but it's about thirty miles, and it would take at least an hour and a half. So there and back, for you to go there and come back in a day, that's three hours a day. So I would go in maximum once a week if I had to go to the embassy or something like that. You had to go in for grocery shopping and that kind of a thing, and so there weren't very many people who were married there. The Foales and the Linengers, at the beginning, were both there, and my wife came, too. We got married right before we went to Russia, as a matter of fact, so that was our honeymoon.

[Assistant] Was that a nine-month honeymoon?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I mean, I walked about fifteen yards from my bedroom to my office.

[Assistant] You could sleep in.

[User] Everybody worked within walking distance from our office. Now, to go into Moscow was a different story. From downtown Moscow to where we work is fifty-six kilometers, so I don't know what that is, but it's about thirty miles, and it would take at least an hour and a half. So there and back, for you to go there and come back in a day, that's three hours a day. So I would go in maximum once a week if I had to go to the embassy or something like that. You had to go in for grocery shopping and that kind of a thing, and so there weren't very many people who were married there. The Foales and the Linengers, at the beginning, were both there, and my wife came, too. We got married right before we went to Russia, as a matter of fact, so that was our honeymoon.

[Assistant] Was that a nine-month honeymoon?

[User] Yes. But she'd been there before, and she's not American anyway, and just all that to say that she's probably a little bit more adaptable to that kind of a lifestyle than sort of a standard newlywed American wife would be. She ended up in some ways being a little bit a den mother, you know, doing shopping for people, because a lot of the people there I mean, even if they were used to cooking for themselves and that kind of thing, you don't have time to go grocery shopping when you're in training, you know, because they schedule from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. It's tough to when you consider it's three hours to get in and out of Moscow, you've got to do it on the weekend, and frankly, on the weekend, (a), you'd like to relax a little and, (b), you probably have to study.

[Assistant] From what I've read, your background is somewhat international in itself. Did that help you adapt to living that nine months there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. Typically seven o'clock, I'd be in the office, in my sort of inner office, and outside would be the other office, and somebody would come in with a batch of margaritas or something like that. So you ended up being able to mix, because it's like living and working in a dorm, and you live together, you work together. So the whole line between your personal and professional lives is a lot blurrier than it is certainly now, here, and probably in any work environment.

[Assistant] I guess you were on twenty-four-hour call. Your work never stopped. You just took yourself in different locations that you worked.

[User] Right. And the people back here in Houston respected that, for the most part. I mean, they knew about the time difference. After a certain time, you know, they could always get you at home if they needed you, but they would just leave a message or send you an e-mail or something like that.

[Assistant] The communications worked well by the time that you became DOR between Russia -

[User] Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder.

[Assistant] During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And the people back here in Houston respected that, for the most part. I mean, they knew about the time difference. After a certain time, you know, they could always get you at home if they needed you, but they would just leave a message or send you an e-mail or something like that.

[Assistant] The communications worked well by the time that you became DOR between Russia -

[User] Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder.

[Assistant] During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?

[User] I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend.

[Assistant] I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder.

[Assistant] During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?

[User] I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend.

[Assistant] I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?

[User] It was in May. It was in early May, and there were still icebergs on the Lake Baikal. That was pretty neat. One fifth, I think, of the fresh water in the world in this lake. I mean, it's a big lake, very deep, and there's nobody out there. I mean, a couple little villages on the shore, but it's amazing.

[Assistant] Have you been back since?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend.

[Assistant] I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?

[User] It was in May. It was in early May, and there were still icebergs on the Lake Baikal. That was pretty neat. One fifth, I think, of the fresh water in the world in this lake. I mean, it's a big lake, very deep, and there's nobody out there. I mean, a couple little villages on the shore, but it's amazing.

[Assistant] Have you been back since?

[User] To Russia? Once. And I'm going next week, as a matter of fact.

[Assistant] How was it when you went back, knowing you were only going to be there for a short time? Did you see it differently?