[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, there were, there were separate groups for each of the six districts of Micronesia.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] In the Chuuk district, there were I think, um, 13 or 14, 13 people.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the Chuuk district, there were I think, um, 13 or 14, 13 people.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. Okay.

[User] And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there.

[Assistant] Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. Okay.

[User] And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there.

[Assistant] Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?

[User] It was a commercial flight. It was a commercial flight.

[Assistant] It must have been long.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there.

[Assistant] Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?

[User] It was a commercial flight. It was a commercial flight.

[Assistant] It must have been long.

[User] Yeah, we flew to Hawaii, then we flew to, and didn't spend any time in Hawaii. Flew to Guam and, and then. Gosh, I don't remember if it was a, I think it was a, it was a 727 that took us to.

[Assistant] What was the reaction of family, friends when you made the decision?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the farthest thing from the desert I could imagine. And, uh, and isolated.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Just seemed like perfect. And you know, the, my friends, you know, I really didn't talk to a lot of people about it because I was in Mexico. And then I came back for a month and I was gone.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Um, so I didn't really talk to people until I come back.

[Assistant] So it was pretty much an individual thing for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just seemed like perfect. And you know, the, my friends, you know, I really didn't talk to a lot of people about it because I was in Mexico. And then I came back for a month and I was gone.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Um, so I didn't really talk to people until I come back.

[Assistant] So it was pretty much an individual thing for you.

[User] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Assistant] Do you recall, uh, meeting the other volunteers? You know what your impression was? You know, now you join. Now here's another.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The rest of them?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Well, um, in San Francisco, it was pretty much a blur.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, you know, here I, I remember. The most memorable, um, event on those 3 or 4 days we were there was when we were getting on the bus to go to the airport, and we were waiting around in our usual waiting mode. And a lovely young woman came up to me, I'd never seen her before in my life, and said, where, you look kind of pensive, where are you going? And I said, I'm going off to Micronesia. And we just struck up this amazing conversation. I would have stayed with her had she asked me to, and she would have gone with me had I asked her. It was just love at first sight kind of thing. And then off to the edges of the world, you know? So that, that seemed quite appropriate.

[Assistant] Yeah. Ships that pass in the night.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. I did have a girlfriend from college.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And after college we had gone to have our individual adventures and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but.

[Assistant] She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And after college we had gone to have our individual adventures and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but.

[Assistant] She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?

[User] Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then.

[Assistant] So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but.

[Assistant] She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?

[User] Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then.

[Assistant] So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?

[User] No, I would guess maybe five out of the 75 total.

[Assistant] Now, the 75 then is broken into six.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then.

[Assistant] So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?

[User] No, I would guess maybe five out of the 75 total.

[Assistant] Now, the 75 then is broken into six.

[User] Yeah, right.

[Assistant] And that's, the breakdown was according to where you would be assigned once you became a volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right.

[Assistant] And that's, the breakdown was according to where you would be assigned once you became a volunteer?

[User] Right. In terms of the district, but not within the district.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah.

[User] That turned out.

[Assistant] Now is that six different language groups?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. In terms of the district, but not within the district.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah.

[User] That turned out.

[Assistant] Now is that six different language groups?

[User] Yes, six totally different language groups.

[Assistant] Okay. So then it was important. Uh, all right, describe your experience in getting to the village where you're going to train.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, you know, screeched to a halt with mud flying everywhere. And we're ushered almost directly, uh, into a landing craft which took us across the lagoon to the island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Dumped us on the beach. We all got out on the beach.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So.

[Assistant] And you really know you're in a different part of the world.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We're in a different part of the world. And of course, on the, on. So people were getting to know each other a little bit on the landing craft. Some people were scared to death. Some people thought it was really fun.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, I was in the latter group there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us.

[Assistant] How large was the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I was in the latter group there.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us.

[Assistant] How large was the island?

[User] Oh, gosh. Well.

[Assistant] It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us.

[Assistant] How large was the island?

[User] Oh, gosh. Well.

[Assistant] It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?

[User] No, no, no, it's not that. It's more like five miles by two miles maybe.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. So it's a relatively small.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, gosh. Well.

[Assistant] It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?

[User] No, no, no, it's not that. It's more like five miles by two miles maybe.

[Assistant] Okay. Okay. So it's a relatively small.

[User] It's small, yeah, it's a small. It's a quote unquote high island and it's got some elevation a little bit.

[Assistant] Had Peace Corps been in Micronesia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the Peace Corps would provide the food, of course, and pay them a certain amount. I don't know what it was. Um, pretty simple living conditions. Um, it was a cement floor house, about 4 or 5 rooms, kind of small rooms divided up with plywood.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, we slept on pandanus mats, which weeded out several people right off the bat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, I happened to live in one of the houses that an existing Peace Corps volunteer who was a, what do they call it? A cultural advisor or something like that. He lived, he was in the same house I was. And that was also my good fortune, because he was from the very islands that those pictures in the National Geographic were from.

[Assistant] Oh, ha ha.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, we slept on pandanus mats, which weeded out several people right off the bat.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, I happened to live in one of the houses that an existing Peace Corps volunteer who was a, what do they call it? A cultural advisor or something like that. He lived, he was in the same house I was. And that was also my good fortune, because he was from the very islands that those pictures in the National Geographic were from.

[Assistant] Oh, ha ha.

[User] I had no idea. I didn't know Truk from the Marshalls from the.

[Assistant] Right. Right, right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had no idea. I didn't know Truk from the Marshalls from the.

[Assistant] Right. Right, right.

[User] So here's my housemate who was from those islands and knew those guys.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And, and, uh, we hit it off, uh, he and one other fellow who was from Chicago, of all places. And, and we determined early on that I should be going to the outer islands.

[Assistant] So let's stick with training now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So here's my housemate who was from those islands and knew those guys.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And, and, uh, we hit it off, uh, he and one other fellow who was from Chicago, of all places. And, and we determined early on that I should be going to the outer islands.

[Assistant] So let's stick with training now.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, so you, your living conditions were reasonable. And, uh, who's running the whole show at the village you go to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and it was, um, it was taught by a native language, a native speaker.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And it was, uh, Trukese as a second language, routine, you know, just repeating, repeating, repeating.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And our families that we lived with delighted in testing us and playing with us, those of us who were brave enough to go out and mingle around.

[Assistant] So even though you were in this, uh, specially built housing, you had a family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was, uh, Trukese as a second language, routine, you know, just repeating, repeating, repeating.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And our families that we lived with delighted in testing us and playing with us, those of us who were brave enough to go out and mingle around.

[Assistant] So even though you were in this, uh, specially built housing, you had a family?

[User] Yeah. Yeah, it was like the houses weren't right next to each other. They were, I think there were two in the village we were in. So there must have been 6 or 7 of us in each house. And the family that was taking care of us was right next door in their traditional house.

[Assistant] So that's the family you were referring to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yeah, it was like the houses weren't right next to each other. They were, I think there were two in the village we were in. So there must have been 6 or 7 of us in each house. And the family that was taking care of us was right next door in their traditional house.

[Assistant] So that's the family you were referring to?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Right. It was a small village, so we got to know a lot of people. And in fact, we got to know people in the other villages, too, because we did a lot of walking.

[Assistant] Now, Micronesia, was it independent or a?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Right. It was a small village, so we got to know a lot of people. And in fact, we got to know people in the other villages, too, because we did a lot of walking.

[Assistant] Now, Micronesia, was it independent or a?

[User] It was a U.S. Trust Territory.

[Assistant] Okay. That's what I thought.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a U.S. Trust Territory.

[Assistant] Okay. That's what I thought.

[User] The whole deal here was that it was the last trust territory from World War II.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And the Russians were making hay in the UN about the imperialists and colonialists and all that stuff. So they dumped hundreds and hundreds of volunteers into Micronesia, I presume to prepare the natives for independence or for, for their next, um, for their next.

[Assistant] The next stage.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The whole deal here was that it was the last trust territory from World War II.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And the Russians were making hay in the UN about the imperialists and colonialists and all that stuff. So they dumped hundreds and hundreds of volunteers into Micronesia, I presume to prepare the natives for independence or for, for their next, um, for their next.

[Assistant] The next stage.

[User] Relationship. Uh, I didn't know it at the time, but, um, since then it's become quite clear that the plan was not that Micronesia would become independent, but it would become, uh, it would formalize its relationship somehow with the U.S.

[Assistant] Like Puerto Rico maybe?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Like maybe Puerto Rico, um.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Maybe Philippines.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] Um, but it didn't work out real well for the Philippines.

[Assistant] You weren't aware of that at the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe Philippines.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] Um, but it didn't work out real well for the Philippines.

[Assistant] You weren't aware of that at the time?

[User] Not right at the time. I became aware of it during the course of my two years.

[Assistant] During, during the training phase, did anyone define a role for you other than the agricultural role that's coming? You know, you're here to help prepare them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The language stuff was good.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, the cultural, so-called cultural training we got was really, um, just hanging out in the villages. Basically we lived in a village for ten months, ten weeks?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And got a lot of language training. Um.

[Assistant] Were you being tested on the language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the cultural, so-called cultural training we got was really, um, just hanging out in the villages. Basically we lived in a village for ten months, ten weeks?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And got a lot of language training. Um.

[Assistant] Were you being tested on the language?

[User] No. No, I don't think so.

[Assistant] But the sense was that once you got to your work station, you would have, you would be working in Turkese [Trukese]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, very much.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So that.

[User] I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because.

[Assistant] So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So that.

[User] I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because.

[Assistant] So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of.

[User] In a way, yeah. It didn't seem like there was pressure. Um.

[Assistant] Did most people speak some form of pidgin English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because.

[Assistant] So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of.

[User] In a way, yeah. It didn't seem like there was pressure. Um.

[Assistant] Did most people speak some form of pidgin English?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Okay. I don't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And he spoke a different dialect, but he could, he could fake the lagoon dialect.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And we learned the lagoon dialect, the dialect of the, of the big lagoon.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English.

[Assistant] So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we learned the lagoon dialect, the dialect of the, of the big lagoon.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English.

[Assistant] So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] In other words, the people you might deal with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English.

[Assistant] So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?

[User] Um.

[Assistant] In other words, the people you might deal with?

[User] Let's see.

[Assistant] Was there a Department of Agriculture?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was. And there was, uh, the guy that was running that who came in new while we were there was Hawaiian.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Almost all the major departments were run by Americans.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] There's a district administrator, and he had his whole bureaucracy and the hospital running the shipping, running the airport, all that stuff.

[Assistant] Okay, let's jump back to the training again. Uh, there was technical training because clearly you were not an agriculturist.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Almost all the major departments were run by Americans.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] There's a district administrator, and he had his whole bureaucracy and the hospital running the shipping, running the airport, all that stuff.

[Assistant] Okay, let's jump back to the training again. Uh, there was technical training because clearly you were not an agriculturist.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Tell me about what the training was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There's not enough room for that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] They're individual trees and individual families own that tree, that tree, that tree.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] And that's their productive source. So, um, so the plan was and it was, it was from on high. It wasn't anything I think that developed from the grassroots.

[Assistant] It wasn't community developed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that's their productive source. So, um, so the plan was and it was, it was from on high. It wasn't anything I think that developed from the grassroots.

[Assistant] It wasn't community developed?

[User] I don't think much was community development.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more.

[Assistant] So it's really a long term thing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think much was community development.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more.

[Assistant] So it's really a long term thing.

[User] It was a long term thing.

[Assistant] If you're working in a nursery.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more.

[Assistant] So it's really a long term thing.

[User] It was a long term thing.

[Assistant] If you're working in a nursery.

[User] Well, the nursery is like, um, it's basically just a bed where you stick coconuts and in 3 or 4 months they sprout.

[Assistant] But as a volunteer, if you're working in a nursery, you're not going to see the fully mature tree.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And that was a question in my mind.

[Assistant] Yeah, well.

[User] When, when we. So during the training, um, it seemed like we got. There was not much coordination in the agriculture aspect of it. We, we did go to one of the, uh, reef islands in the big lagoon and actually all, all the agricultural volunteers went out there for about four days, five days. Lived with families and actually got to dig holes and plant coconuts and like that. So that was the training we got there. It could have been done in an hour, but it took four days and, you know, and it was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] I was wondering.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When, when we. So during the training, um, it seemed like we got. There was not much coordination in the agriculture aspect of it. We, we did go to one of the, uh, reef islands in the big lagoon and actually all, all the agricultural volunteers went out there for about four days, five days. Lived with families and actually got to dig holes and plant coconuts and like that. So that was the training we got there. It could have been done in an hour, but it took four days and, you know, and it was fun.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] I was wondering.

[User] And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] I was wondering.

[User] And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?

[User] Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven.

[Assistant] And on what basis were you assigned?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that.

[Assistant] Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?

[User] Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven.

[Assistant] And on what basis were you assigned?

[User] I think it was because the guy who was my housemate told the Peace Corps volunteer or Peace Corps director that I'd be good on an outer island. And it was obvious that some people would not survive an outer island.

[Assistant] Isolation and everything.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven.

[Assistant] And on what basis were you assigned?

[User] I think it was because the guy who was my housemate told the Peace Corps volunteer or Peace Corps director that I'd be good on an outer island. And it was obvious that some people would not survive an outer island.

[Assistant] Isolation and everything.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, during, during the training were people resigning and going home all through it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, during, during the training were people resigning and going home all through it?

[User] Not a lot, not a lot. It was one or two. Um, there was some, I think probably some fairly heavy weeding done in San Francisco.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I don't know about the other, the other villages, I just. I just know about the one I'm in.

[Assistant] It's a relatively small group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know about the other, the other villages, I just. I just know about the one I'm in.

[Assistant] It's a relatively small group.

[User] It is a small group. And you know, we had the psychologists come and do this little testing, this profile thing and do a few group things and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was, I thought it was pretty, I was pretty skeptical about that aspect of it.

[Assistant] Right. Was it all male?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It is a small group. And you know, we had the psychologists come and do this little testing, this profile thing and do a few group things and.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was, I thought it was pretty, I was pretty skeptical about that aspect of it.

[Assistant] Right. Was it all male?

[User] No, no. They were, um, well in ag program, yes. They were all male. There was one couple, maybe two couples in our village, and they. She was probably wound up teaching English, and he was a small business guy.

[Assistant] Okay. So they weren't in training with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. They were, um, well in ag program, yes. They were all male. There was one couple, maybe two couples in our village, and they. She was probably wound up teaching English, and he was a small business guy.

[Assistant] Okay. So they weren't in training with you?

[User] Well, they kind of were in the language stuff and we lived right next door. They were in the house right next to us.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] But they didn't do the agricultural stuff with us.

[Assistant] So the training goes on for ten weeks. You have a vague idea of the job you're supposed to be doing. Was there anything about community dynamics, the fact that you were going into a totally different culture that you're introducing, trying to introduce some, I mean, that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that was really helpful.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The people that were assigned to the big lagoon in the districts, that was a cultural catastrophe there. And it was, it was like Nogales in the worst of the worst days. It was, uh, cultural disintegration.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And people dropped out of that situation like flies. It was the second highest dropout rate in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, during the ten weeks, uh, what kind of Peace Corps staff presence was there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The people that were assigned to the big lagoon in the districts, that was a cultural catastrophe there. And it was, it was like Nogales in the worst of the worst days. It was, uh, cultural disintegration.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And people dropped out of that situation like flies. It was the second highest dropout rate in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, during the ten weeks, uh, what kind of Peace Corps staff presence was there?

[User] The volunteer, the existing volunteer who was in the house was there the whole time. Um, there was a Peace Corps psychologist who came out. The Peace Corps director, of course, came out and said hello.

[Assistant] Where was he based?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But each district had their headquarters, so the district director from, from Chuuk came over and visited.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, uh, and I remember towards the end of the, of the training, there were 3 or 4 of us who really were kind of, um, disappointed, to say the least, in the quality of the training, especially around the cultural stuff.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And we complained to the, to the district administrator.

[Assistant] Quite Peace Corps, isn't it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Peace Corps, yes.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Um, but we could also see what was, what we were being set up for it seemed like. Um, because at that time, the U.S. was pouring money into Micronesia, doing all kinds of capital improvement stuff.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Giving, just pouring money in. It was not grassroots. And those of us who had been the slightest bit around the bush could see that this was going to go sideways in a big way, and we were going to get caught in the middle of it.

[Assistant] And it's also against the background of our deep involvement in Vietnam and Saipan as a major base.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, but we could also see what was, what we were being set up for it seemed like. Um, because at that time, the U.S. was pouring money into Micronesia, doing all kinds of capital improvement stuff.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Giving, just pouring money in. It was not grassroots. And those of us who had been the slightest bit around the bush could see that this was going to go sideways in a big way, and we were going to get caught in the middle of it.

[Assistant] And it's also against the background of our deep involvement in Vietnam and Saipan as a major base.

[User] Yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody. Yeah, yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody.

[Assistant] So at the end of the ten weeks, you're, you've been selected. You're a Peace Corps volunteer. Uh, what comes next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody. Yeah, yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody.

[Assistant] So at the end of the ten weeks, you're, you've been selected. You're a Peace Corps volunteer. Uh, what comes next?

[User] Well, then they. I was told, wait. We had a little, I think there was a Peace Corps house in the capital town on the big island where we kind of all hung out until we, until we got out to our islands.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, I didn't get out to my island, let's see, that was July or August. We got done with training about the first week in October. I didn't get out to my island until almost Christmas. Um.

[Assistant] It must have been frustrating.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, then they. I was told, wait. We had a little, I think there was a Peace Corps house in the capital town on the big island where we kind of all hung out until we, until we got out to our islands.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And, uh, I didn't get out to my island, let's see, that was July or August. We got done with training about the first week in October. I didn't get out to my island until almost Christmas. Um.

[Assistant] It must have been frustrating.

[User] It was very frustrating. But the shipping was irregular. Totally irregular.

[Assistant] I was going to ask how you got from island to island.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was very frustrating. But the shipping was irregular. Totally irregular.

[Assistant] I was going to ask how you got from island to island.

[User] There were two, there were two vessels, actually three, but there were two that were regular in, in Truk. One was a Catholic motor sailer, uh, about a 40-50 foot motor sailer. Uh, just a vomit comet. I mean, it's, but great ship. And the other was the official, um, government freighter.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, um.

[Assistant] Did a regular service.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were two, there were two vessels, actually three, but there were two that were regular in, in Truk. One was a Catholic motor sailer, uh, about a 40-50 foot motor sailer. Uh, just a vomit comet. I mean, it's, but great ship. And the other was the official, um, government freighter.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, um.

[Assistant] Did a regular service.

[User] Did a regular circuit, except that when there was a medical emergency, it got diverted to go pick up whoever it was that otherwise would have died. So there was no schedule, and there was a schedule in that they'd go to this district and then everything being equal, they go to the next one. But it wasn't like the Peace Corps could say, hey, we want to take, you take all these guys.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps did not have its own?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Did a regular circuit, except that when there was a medical emergency, it got diverted to go pick up whoever it was that otherwise would have died. So there was no schedule, and there was a schedule in that they'd go to this district and then everything being equal, they go to the next one. But it wasn't like the Peace Corps could say, hey, we want to take, you take all these guys.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps did not have its own?

[User] They didn't have a ship. Not until the second year I was there. Then they chartered, actually, or leased a trimaran, a 40 foot trimaran that came through.

[Assistant] Okay. Well.

[User] That was a mixed thing.

[Assistant] Let's stick back with. So I'm trying to get out to the islands.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They didn't have a ship. Not until the second year I was there. Then they chartered, actually, or leased a trimaran, a 40 foot trimaran that came through.

[Assistant] Okay. Well.

[User] That was a mixed thing.

[Assistant] Let's stick back with. So I'm trying to get out to the islands.

[User] I was in the district center then for a couple of months, and, um, I did get to go out on the ship, on the, on the Catholic boat, it was called the Star of the Sea, to deliver the Peace Corps to the western islands. My atoll group was a little bit north of that, and I was led to believe right up until I got on the boat that it was going there as well. But I got on the boat and they said, oh no, we're just going there and back.

[Assistant] Not this time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that was the first, my first introduction to those western and non-NATO islands. So I made myself useful in the district center. We built an office for the, for the Peace Corps in Quonset huts. So we had carpentry skills and things and but mostly stuff like that. Just waiting and waiting and waiting.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that was frustrating, um, but I did finally get out.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] On, on the, on the main, on the big freighter. Um, arrived on the island of, at that time called Ulul, but by the people that lived there called Onoun. And, uh.

[Assistant] What do you arrive with? I mean, whatever you can carry on your back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] On, on the, on the main, on the big freighter. Um, arrived on the island of, at that time called Ulul, but by the people that lived there called Onoun. And, uh.

[Assistant] What do you arrive with? I mean, whatever you can carry on your back?

[User] Yeah, I had a, I had a trunk.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And I had a Peace Corps library box.

[Assistant] The book, the book locker.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had a Peace Corps library box.

[Assistant] The book, the book locker.

[User] The wonderful book locker.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things.

[Assistant]
Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.

Yeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The wonderful book locker.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things.

[Assistant]
Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.

Yeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?

[User] Just me. I mean, other people are going to the island.

[Assistant] Right, that's what I was getting at.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things.

[Assistant]
Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.

Yeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?

[User] Just me. I mean, other people are going to the island.

[Assistant] Right, that's what I was getting at.

[User] But not Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Okay. And when you get there, is there any other Peace Corps on the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But not Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Okay. And when you get there, is there any other Peace Corps on the island?

[User] There was, um, let's see. Yeah, there were one, there were three actually. There was a couple who were the just prior group. And there was a guy who was, uh, Micronesia I, and he was leaving on the ship I was leaving on because he had a torn shoulder, and he went off to get medical treatment. Um, on the ship I was on was the material for a school to school project that he had arranged. Um. Uh, and it was no great loss that he left because he didn't know how to, one end of a hammer from another. And but the other two, the couple, were both teaching English in elementary school.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So we arrived at, Onoun doesn't have a dock or a pier. Um, so we anchored out, 4:00 in the morning, and I got paddled in in a little outrigger paddling canoe. Four in the morning. Met my sponsor and went to the village.

[Assistant] Okay. Now, who was your sponsor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was ten years older, 10 or 12 years older than me.

[Assistant] Micronesian?

[User] Micronesian. Spoke very passable English. He had about an eighth grade education.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um.

[Assistant] Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Micronesian. Spoke very passable English. He had about an eighth grade education.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um.

[Assistant] Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?

[User] By the people in the island. I mean, they decided who was going to get the next Peace Corps. But yeah, Peace Corps had.

[Assistant] Now, the people on the island had been approached and had agreed to having a Peace Corps or an agricultural. Who did they think you were when you when you arrived?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um.

[Assistant] Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?

[User] By the people in the island. I mean, they decided who was going to get the next Peace Corps. But yeah, Peace Corps had.

[Assistant] Now, the people on the island had been approached and had agreed to having a Peace Corps or an agricultural. Who did they think you were when you when you arrived?

[User] That's a good question. They didn't even ask for probably a month.

[Assistant] Well, yeah, I can believe that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, and so I was the first non teacher.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] So it was a little vague as to how this was going to work out. And, um, fortunately for me and for them, uh, the school to school project kind of stuck its big foot in the way and said, do me, do me, do me.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I oversaw the building of this elementary school for the first six months I was there.

[Assistant] Was there a commitment on the part of the community to the school project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I oversaw the building of this elementary school for the first six months I was there.

[Assistant] Was there a commitment on the part of the community to the school project?

[User] Yeah, they had, they provided all the labor.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things.

[Assistant] And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, they had, they provided all the labor.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things.

[Assistant] And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Okay. And it was to be an elementary school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things.

[Assistant] And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Okay. And it was to be an elementary school.

[User] Yes. They had an elementary school, but it was in a, just a thatch.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So it was a replacement.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. They had an elementary school, but it was in a, just a thatch.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. So it was a replacement.

[User] Yeah. So this was cement floor, um, block columns, high pitched roof.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And designed rather poorly by a Peace Corps volunteer in the district center who said he was an engineer.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And designed rather poorly by a Peace Corps volunteer in the district center who said he was an engineer.

[Assistant] Do you remember his name?

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I never met him. I just had his sketches that he said were the plans I was supposed to follow.

[Assistant] But you felt comfortable, I mean, did you feel you didn't have any choice?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] I never met him. I just had his sketches that he said were the plans I was supposed to follow.

[Assistant] But you felt comfortable, I mean, did you feel you didn't have any choice?

[User] Um. I was happy to do it. I, I.

[Assistant] You didn't think someone was suddenly going to appear one day and say, my God, you put the whole thing on backwards, you know?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, and I wasn't a pro, but, um, this was not a complicated thing. And the guys on the island were not stupid either, so.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, we could. We had the lumber, we put it together. It was a great project because I got to, every day, well, for the first couple of weeks, when we started on the project.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, it was five days a week, and until the, uh, and I got to work with all the men on the island. It was only about 30 able bodied, you know, adult men to do this kind of work.

[Assistant] Oh really? Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And worse comes to worse, I could talk in lagoon and they could understand it.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But Titus took it upon himself. I insisted that he, that he be stern with me and correct me whenever I made a mistake.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Because I didn't want to learn bad Trukese. And he was a remarkable guy. It was unusual Trukese in that he was outspoken himself.

[Assistant] He was willing to be critical?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and in fact, he loved it. He was relieved that I wouldn't be a doofus and embarrass him.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So, so every evening we would go over what we were going to do the next day at the school. And I'd say, I need to be able to say this, this, and this. And, you know, in retrospect, they knew what they were doing, but.

[Assistant] Well, yeah.

[User] But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge.

[Assistant] They let you play at being king.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, so every evening we would go over what we were going to do the next day at the school. And I'd say, I need to be able to say this, this, and this. And, you know, in retrospect, they knew what they were doing, but.

[Assistant] Well, yeah.

[User] But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge.

[Assistant] They let you play at being king.

[User] Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy.

[Assistant] Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge.

[Assistant] They let you play at being king.

[User] Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy.

[Assistant] Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?

[User] Titus.

[Assistant] Titus was kind of a mentor in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy.

[Assistant] Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?

[User] Titus.

[Assistant] Titus was kind of a mentor in.

[User] In the language.

[Assistant] Well, but also introducing you to.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] He was, uh, he had a cultural relationship with the hereditary chiefs line. His father was hereditary chief before him. He was not in line to be hereditary chief, but he had a relationship with that hereditary chief line that made him an important guy.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And he was healthy, and he was outspoken, and he was smart as hell.

[Assistant] What was the total population?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of the smart guys.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Some of them came back to be the first president of Micronesia.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] One of them is still the UN representative.

[Assistant] But many may have stayed out of the country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of them came back to be the first president of Micronesia.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] One of them is still the UN representative.

[Assistant] But many may have stayed out of the country.

[User] They were, they were. He was out of the country.

[Assistant] Yeah. So, uh, and the living conditions then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We liked each other instantly.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] It was really wonderful.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Um. And his whole family were, he had, his wife was a little bit younger than he was. And they had at that time, like I said, about four kids, 4 or 5 kids.

[Assistant] So were you taking meals with them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was really wonderful.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Um. And his whole family were, he had, his wife was a little bit younger than he was. And they had at that time, like I said, about four kids, 4 or 5 kids.

[Assistant] So were you taking meals with them?

[User] Um, sometimes. And sometimes I would, they would bring me food to the house. There was always people in the house.

[Assistant] And you had come with a certain amount of supplies.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Powdered milk, coffee, sugar, flour.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, tin, tinned food.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um. So I did a fair bit of cooking myself. I had little kerosene stove, and I made an oven out of a biscuit tin box. So I would make things special for just whoever came around.

[Assistant] So after you'd been there a couple of weeks, did you wake up and say, oh my God, I'm in Micronesia at the end of the world?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I was, I was blown away from the get-go.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] I, a friend of mine wrote and said, geez, you know, you ever get any marijuana out there? I mean, what do you do if you can't get stoned? And I wrote back and said, this, I've been high since I got here, and not on marijuana. I just, every time I look around, it's like.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] The, and, and so many things were happening all at once. Um, that it was. But to get back to, to the point of how fortunate it was that the school project was there in front of me, was it got me engaged. It gave me language practice, but it also put off any agricultural activities, thank God.

[Assistant] Uncovering the fraud that you were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the idea of having a vegetable garden for the school was terrific, you know, because they, they had to feed these kids.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So, so that was good. Um, and I was led to believe that I was going to have a nice big fat pig delivered to me and some chickens from the ag extension. The pig to improve the stock on the island, the chickens likewise.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So Titus and I also built one hell of a fine palace for the chickens, and they didn't come for about six months because ag kept forgetting to put it on the ship. They did send a pig. And ten minutes after it got the island, the islanders castrated it because it would get fatter that way. So I kind of, I, you know, I had the chickens for a long time, but I really didn't.

[Assistant] So you immediately wrote back, send more pigs. They were delicious.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I had, you know, I had plans for a nice chicken house, and it turned out that my chickens, which were all Rhode Island Reds, were too stupid to lay eggs in that chicken house, but all the island chickens would come lay eggs in that chicken house. So I had lots of eggs.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And my chickens got eaten by the monitor lizards that lived on the island.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] That was okay.

[Assistant] During the first six months, how was your health?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And my chickens got eaten by the monitor lizards that lived on the island.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] That was okay.

[Assistant] During the first six months, how was your health?

[User] The first six months was pretty good. Um, then I got hepatitis. Hepatitis A, I think it was. And that knocked me out. Um, but I didn't leave the island, I just.

[Assistant] What was your communication back, I mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the Peace Corps, as one of their conditions on, to have volunteers in the outer islands, they put a big generator, diesel generator, and a radio on each of the outer islands.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And that generator not only gave us radio contact, but it also provided lights for the schools.

[Assistant] Oh, nice.

[User] And power for a slide projector and things like that.

[Assistant] Did you, did you check in periodically?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And power for a slide projector and things like that.

[Assistant] Did you, did you check in periodically?

[User] We had weekly, weekly, uh, communication with the district center. When, when the, when the generators were running. There were times when the generators would go on the blink. And the next time the ship came out, I mean, people would realize because they couldn't raise us.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Or somebody would go to another island and radio in, so they'd send somebody out to fix it. So there were plenty of times when we didn't have communication.

[Assistant] Did you have any visitors during the first six, eight months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had weekly, weekly, uh, communication with the district center. When, when the, when the generators were running. There were times when the generators would go on the blink. And the next time the ship came out, I mean, people would realize because they couldn't raise us.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Or somebody would go to another island and radio in, so they'd send somebody out to fix it. So there were plenty of times when we didn't have communication.

[Assistant] Did you have any visitors during the first six, eight months?

[User] Uh. Let's see.

[Assistant] I don't know how anyone would get there, but.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Illegal for them to be there, but they would show up offshore and people would go out.

[Assistant] Schooners?

[User] No, no, these were longliners, you know, tuna.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] Tuna fish.

[Assistant] Okay, okay. Got it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And that was always exciting. And there was, there was, uh, there was one that came that, um, the captain, for some reason, decided he wasn't going to let his crew trade with people. So the one of the guys on, one of our guys was on the deck, got pissed off and managed to get the nut off the main trolling pulley and threw it overboard in 80 feet of water. And the captain just flipped and took the hereditary chief, and one other guy had his guys grab him and put him in the, in the wheelhouse and said, we're going to take him back to wherever they came from if you don't get that nut, because we can't troll without it and we don't have a spare.

So the rest of us got in our canoes and went ashore, and they left me there. But every man on the island got his machete and all the little canoes, and they surrounded that ship and started banging on the ship and screaming bloody murder. And, uh, and the final shot was, and the Peace Corps is calling the Coast Guard right now! So our guys were released and that ship left.

[Assistant] Captain America.

[User] So that was exciting. It was also a little scary because had they had guns, they could have done.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] Awful things.

[Assistant] I mean, it's such an isolated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Awful things.

[Assistant] I mean, it's such an isolated.

[User] And nobody trusted him. When we first saw him, we didn't want to let him ashore.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So that was interesting. And the only other visitor we had in the first year was a Navy ship that came on a PR thing.

[Assistant] I was wondering.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we had a little joke that she and I were engaged.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And there was a process. There's a, there's actually a legitimate process for that. But so they said, oh God, really, you know? And I pointed her out and they just backed off like, oh my God, this guy's been out here way too long. It was hilarious.

[Assistant] Different worlds.

[User] They still laugh about that, 40 years later. They laugh about that.

[Assistant] Um, so you phase into the community primarily through the building of the school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there was a process. There's a, there's actually a legitimate process for that. But so they said, oh God, really, you know? And I pointed her out and they just backed off like, oh my God, this guy's been out here way too long. It was hilarious.

[Assistant] Different worlds.

[User] They still laugh about that, 40 years later. They laugh about that.

[Assistant] Um, so you phase into the community primarily through the building of the school.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Uh, when is your first time off the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Uh, when is your first time off the island?

[User] Um. Let's see, I was. I spent way too much time going back and forth. I went, I was called back in when the, for a, by the assistant director for a meeting of all the agricultural guys.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] That never happened. So I was off for about six weeks screwing around in the district center, again working on the office building and doing some other stuff like that.

[Assistant] That must be frustrating.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Let's see, I was. I spent way too much time going back and forth. I went, I was called back in when the, for a, by the assistant director for a meeting of all the agricultural guys.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] That never happened. So I was off for about six weeks screwing around in the district center, again working on the office building and doing some other stuff like that.

[Assistant] That must be frustrating.

[User] It was totally frustrating. It really pissed us off. And, and it was. He left after a while, but we got a new director who was really good.

[Assistant] But at that point when you came in that way, you were meeting with the others who were trained with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Ostensibly. I was looking forward to it. I was thinking, we're going to meet with the agriculture people. The other volunteers are going to meet with the ag extension people. We're going to have, you know, it's kind of like what they call now, I guess, mid, uh.

[Assistant] Yeah. Mid-service.

[User] Mid-service training or something.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I was really looking forward to it. And it just didn't happen because they couldn't get the, the logistics together so people didn't come.

[Assistant] But what, what, uh, in speaking with, what was, had been their experience up to that point? How did it match against yours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mid-service training or something.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I was really looking forward to it. And it just didn't happen because they couldn't get the, the logistics together so people didn't come.

[Assistant] But what, what, uh, in speaking with, what was, had been their experience up to that point? How did it match against yours?

[User] The other volunteers?

[Assistant] Yeah, the other volunteers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The other volunteers?

[Assistant] Yeah, the other volunteers.

[User] Um, it varied a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Uh, there was, uh.

[Assistant] Micronesia had a huge number of volunteers at one point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, it varied a lot.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Uh, there was, uh.

[Assistant] Micronesia had a huge number of volunteers at one point.

[User] About 600 or something.

[Assistant] It must have been around this time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Where you could go and get a drink and a decent steak and, and then there were the rest of us.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And the only Trukese that were up there were bureaucrats and suck ups and thieves and so.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the only Trukese that were up there were bureaucrats and suck ups and thieves and so.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster.

[User] Oh God, yeah.

[Assistant] Or even three maybe or four.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster.

[User] Oh God, yeah.

[Assistant] Or even three maybe or four.

[User] Yeah, three was, three was workable because we were doing different things.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. So you had this one break back, which was a bust.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh God, yeah.

[Assistant] Or even three maybe or four.

[User] Yeah, three was, three was workable because we were doing different things.

[Assistant] Yeah, okay. So you had this one break back, which was a bust.

[User] Then I was, uh, then I went on vacation. That was a separate trip.

[Assistant] Between the first and second year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But. And then I went up to Saipan for a couple of weeks and got dewormed, as I recall, and, uh, and met up there with a village in Saipan made up of people from my island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Which I've only in the last few years learned more about that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So it was a great, great vacation.

[Assistant] Now you finished the first year. You're going back. As you start into your second year, have you now become an agriculturalist or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Biggest lessons that's stuck with me ever since. Um, so we tentatively got into doing what the program called for. There were a few guys who were willing to try it.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So we cleared some areas, we planted some trees. A lot of people could understand that if you brushed underneath the trees, it'd be less competition with the coconuts and the coconuts would grow better. So that's good.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, and we probably planted, I don't know, a thousand trees, a thousand coconuts.

[Assistant] Now there would, how long would they stay in the nursery?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So we cleared some areas, we planted some trees. A lot of people could understand that if you brushed underneath the trees, it'd be less competition with the coconuts and the coconuts would grow better. So that's good.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, and we probably planted, I don't know, a thousand trees, a thousand coconuts.

[Assistant] Now there would, how long would they stay in the nursery?

[User] Um, about four months. Three, four months.

[Assistant] Oh, and then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, about four months. Three, four months.

[Assistant] Oh, and then.

[User] As soon as they sprouted up to a certain height.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Then they could be transplanted.

[Assistant] And could you survey an area and say, well, this would be a good place for.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The fat end was the productive end, uh, agriculturally. And that end is where all the families had their traditional holdings. The other part, the long skinny part had been, um, not exactly commandeered. What would you call it? Um, used by a Belgian starting in about 1886 as a plantation. There's a long story behind that.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, which I didn't learn until towards the very end.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, but it had been planted as a plantation and run as a plantation, um, by that Belgian, uh, up into Japanese times, into the '20s, I guess, maybe '30s before. [tape break] The Belgian, a guy named, uh, Eshiek.

[Assistant] Not Emil Lohbeck?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, the, the law of unintended consequences works for good and for evil.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] When I revisited the Island in 2002, 47 years later.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, I asked them, you know, how did those Yapese coconuts turn out? Oh, they're really, really nice coconuts. Really good coconuts. Really great. Yeah, that was really great. I said, well, how about the copra, I mean, did you guys? Well, actually, they're no good for copra. You can't get the meat out, but the hard shell of the coconut is much bigger than the ones we had. And they're really good for collecting coconut toddy. So that's what we use it for. So yeah.

[Assistant] So people there would, they had chickens, pigs, and small gardens, tropical fruit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, and they made those swamps. They dug down to the fresh water and filled it with leaves and stuff. And so they tended taro swamps. They had breadfruit. Uh, they had, uh, at that time they had some lime trees that were, God knows who brought those in.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, and papaya and banana, uh, a few pineapple.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We were also shown in our training, uh, the quote unquote, proper way to prepare bananas for planting and pineapple for planting. And that was probably a good idea. But again, I was way out of my league, and so I didn't go there.

[Assistant] Well, let's go through the second year then. Uh, you began working on the agricultural project with a little bit less than enthusiasm. Uh, any other activities on the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gained possession of it on paper. So here was this piece of, you know, three quarters of the island that is U.S. owned. And the people there had made several petitions, both during Navy times in the '50s and in the early '60s, to get the island back, and unsuccessfully. But they decided to make one more shot at it, and they asked me to help. And I was invited to the council meetings. And by that time I was, between my own language proficiency and Titus' ability to translate sophisticated stuff.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User]
Um, I sat in on many council meetings, and this was a huge deal for the island. Um, they were, they were told that there was going to be a plebiscite and someday they might be independent. And they were looking at these lagoon Trukese, 160 miles away, who were basically going to run the show. What would they do with that piece of the island? So they wanted that clarified. And there was conflict. There were nine clans on the island, and there was historical conflict between some of the clans over who had what and who had prior rights, etcetera, etcetera.

But the elected magistrate of the island, a guy named Leon Epperson, basically facilitated a conversation between those nine clans that led to a unified position vis-a-vis the U.S. And my contribution was to suggest to them that they would have a better shot at it if they came up with a land use plan and a clear way of distributing it, so that the U.S. guys would think, oh, they have it together.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process.

[Assistant] Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Um, I sat in on many council meetings, and this was a huge deal for the island. Um, they were, they were told that there was going to be a plebiscite and someday they might be independent. And they were looking at these lagoon Trukese, 160 miles away, who were basically going to run the show. What would they do with that piece of the island? So they wanted that clarified. And there was conflict. There were nine clans on the island, and there was historical conflict between some of the clans over who had what and who had prior rights, etcetera, etcetera.

But the elected magistrate of the island, a guy named Leon Epperson, basically facilitated a conversation between those nine clans that led to a unified position vis-a-vis the U.S. And my contribution was to suggest to them that they would have a better shot at it if they came up with a land use plan and a clear way of distributing it, so that the U.S. guys would think, oh, they have it together.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process.

[Assistant] Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Had they been, would they have told you to stop?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process.

[Assistant] Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Had they been, would they have told you to stop?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Okay, but you're interfering in local affairs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Had they been, would they have told you to stop?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Okay, but you're interfering in local affairs.

[User] No, I wasn't, I was just helping out a little.

[Assistant] Well, I mean.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And we made a few corrections and then typed it up and 120 people signed it and we sent it in with the other volunteer, Kent Reediman and Jan Reediman. They were going somewhere. Sent that in, and it was forwarded to the high commissioner with a letter from the district, the district administrator supporting it. And that's the last I saw of it or heard of it until 19, or until 2002.

But in the meantime, we continued our work out there. Um, the new district administrator came out to the island to visit and brought an entourage of bureaucrats, one of whom was a was an engineer starting up. And he stayed with me. And so he arranged for me to get a alidade and a plane table so we could map the villages and then map the private land. We never got to the private land, but we did map the villages, and this is all part of lining up to be able to make sure that the, that however this land was, um, divided would be fair.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] First we have to know who has what.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So that was really a fun project, and that was right down my alley because I learned how to do that as an archeologist.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. That's great.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] First we have to know who has what.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So that was really a fun project, and that was right down my alley because I learned how to do that as an archeologist.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. That's great.

[User] So I could actually contribute something that they couldn't do.

[Assistant] They couldn't do what you doing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Even though I didn't like the idea of laying out the villages in squares, never mind that.

[Assistant] Some compromises.

[User] Yeah. So I did a lot of, I did that kind of thing. And it turned out in, I mean, over, over time that, that that petition to the high commissioner was by far the most important thing I've ever done in my life.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] By far. Um, but I didn't know it at the time. I was just doing what was in front of me, you know? Why not? This is kind of fun.

[Assistant] So now you come to, coming to the end of your two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My father was a conservative. And he wrote back and said, if you do that, you're no son of mine. Never darken my door again. You know, a man of principle would, would obey the law and go to jail if, you know, blah blah blah.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I just reread the letter I wrote back to him, and I must say, I don't think it probably had much of an effect, but I was, I was definitely not going to go home.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May.

[Assistant] Were you way out on the island?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I just reread the letter I wrote back to him, and I must say, I don't think it probably had much of an effect, but I was, I was definitely not going to go home.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May.

[Assistant] Were you way out on the island?

[User] I was on the island. So, May. I was supposed to terminate in August, I think. So in May, I got appendicitis. It took four days for the ship to get out to get me, because they were on the other side of.

[Assistant] So this was an emergency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May.

[Assistant] Were you way out on the island?

[User] I was on the island. So, May. I was supposed to terminate in August, I think. So in May, I got appendicitis. It took four days for the ship to get out to get me, because they were on the other side of.

[Assistant] So this was an emergency?

[User] It was a, it was a four day emergency. Yes.

[Assistant] Oh my God.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a, it was a four day emergency. Yes.

[Assistant] Oh my God.

[User] Um, so we, fortunately our radio was working.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so the.

[Assistant] Fortunately you didn't die.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so the.

[Assistant] Fortunately you didn't die.

[User] And so, uh, so I finally got into the district center on the ship. I took the commercial flight to Guam, and I was in the Guam Naval Hospital for three weeks maybe.

[Assistant] That long?

[User] Almost a month. I was in intensive care for about ten days. And then I was.

[Assistant] It must have been.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so, uh, so I finally got into the district center on the ship. I took the commercial flight to Guam, and I was in the Guam Naval Hospital for three weeks maybe.

[Assistant] That long?

[User] Almost a month. I was in intensive care for about ten days. And then I was.

[Assistant] It must have been.

[User] It was bad.

[Assistant] Touch and go. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We almost died on that one too. We got lost.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Um, but we survived, obviously.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then.

[Assistant] That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, but we survived, obviously.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then.

[Assistant] That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic.

[User] It's a, it's about a five day trip.

[Assistant] Yeah. So now you're, you're, you got back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then.

[Assistant] That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic.

[User] It's a, it's about a five day trip.

[Assistant] Yeah. So now you're, you're, you got back.

[User] I got back to the island, basically just finishing up stuff. And there was nothing, you know, we did a little bit. I was weak.

[Assistant] Yeah. But at least you had the satisfaction of leaving on your own terms rather than.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got back to the island, basically just finishing up stuff. And there was nothing, you know, we did a little bit. I was weak.

[Assistant] Yeah. But at least you had the satisfaction of leaving on your own terms rather than.

[User] Yes, yes.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was, it was. That would have been the worst to have left without being able to say goodbye.

[Assistant] So now, by the time you finally leave, you're 26 and.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just turned 26. I got back to the district center. I'm going to fly home.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I'm going to fly, actually I'm going to fly to San Francisco, meet my girlfriend and head to Canada.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And there was a letter from, uh, from my draft board saying, forget it.

[Assistant] Yeah. We don't, we don't want you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm going to fly, actually I'm going to fly to San Francisco, meet my girlfriend and head to Canada.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And there was a letter from, uh, from my draft board saying, forget it.

[Assistant] Yeah. We don't, we don't want you.

[User] On the spot I had to go like this, rearrange my whole future. So.

[Assistant] So you came, flew back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I came home.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, spent a week with my girlfriend on the California coast and then came to Tucson.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And went out there for 3 or 4 months, and total culture shock. Absolute culture shock.

[Assistant] I would think, I mean, doubly so for living on an island with 300 people coming back anyplace in the U.S.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we went to Fort Bragg, which was, I don't know, a couple hundred miles.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] We drove and drove and drove and drove and drove.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was, um. Anyway, I did come back to Tucson, and I kind of disappeared into the back, backyard. I had an old woody station wagon, so I spent a good deal of time just restoring that.

[Assistant] So you must have really, I mean, you'd been through so much, and it had been such a dramatic experience and satisfying that you're at a point in your life now, well, where do where do I go now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so linguistics was one of the avenues. And I went to this guy's grad classes and it was interesting. And then he invited me to a Saturday night poker game, and I went and there were 5 or 6 graduate students under his tutelage. And I, you know, not too far into the evening, discovered that he was cheating and nobody was saying anything. And I thought, well, fuck this, you know?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I wound up going to Alaska and fishing.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing.

[Assistant] How soon after you left did the status change to independence?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I wound up going to Alaska and fishing.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing.

[Assistant] How soon after you left did the status change to independence?

[User] Uh, gosh.

[Assistant] Within a few years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing.

[Assistant] How soon after you left did the status change to independence?

[User] Uh, gosh.

[Assistant] Within a few years?

[User] Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't.

[Assistant] Well, that's all right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, gosh.

[Assistant] Within a few years?

[User] Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't.

[Assistant] Well, that's all right.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So what kind of ongoing contact were you able to have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't.

[Assistant] Well, that's all right.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So what kind of ongoing contact were you able to have?

[User] I had very little. Um, there was.

[Assistant] I mean, given the isolation generally I could.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I mean, nobody was killed, and everybody survived, but it changed the whole island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] They got massive government aid for quite a few years.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] After they changed things. And then.

[Assistant] So it's living on the dole, sort of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] On the dole.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, uh, and then some machinations started happening. This was in, by mid '70s. In 1975, it turns out in retrospect, I mean I learned this afterwards. In 1975, so that's, uh, seven years after we made the petition to the, to the high commissioner, the court, the high court of, of Micronesia granted them ownership of the island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Thanks to the petition and to the efforts of a Legal Aid attorney who came in the mid '70s and was handed this project from unknown to push us on through.

[Assistant] Was it a Peace Corps volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And, uh, and then some machinations started happening. This was in, by mid '70s. In 1975, it turns out in retrospect, I mean I learned this afterwards. In 1975, so that's, uh, seven years after we made the petition to the, to the high commissioner, the court, the high court of, of Micronesia granted them ownership of the island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Thanks to the petition and to the efforts of a Legal Aid attorney who came in the mid '70s and was handed this project from unknown to push us on through.

[Assistant] Was it a Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] No, Legal Aid.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, Legal Aid.

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Yeah.

[User] His name was, uh, Laur Halpern, who goes by Elie Halpern now. I, we.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And, uh. And so, so when, uh. Well, I don't know where to go from here. There's, there's the history of the island, and there's my own history, but.

[Assistant] Well, let's, let me, uh, I'd be curious. You said you have gone back. Let's pick it up from, you know, from there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it's, he's, he's about the only one left in the family now. Three other members have died in the passing seven, seven months, I mean seven years. So we went back again this last summer, it's our third trip.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And we've just gotten thoroughly reengaged with the island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, with the overcoming of this oppressive, oppressive corruption stuff on the island is just kind of uncovered a whole cultural miasma that is going to take a lot of work on their part and everybody's part to overcome.

[Assistant] But it's more than just like a tourist going back. I mean, you're, it's very much part of your life and you're very much part of their life.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we've just gotten thoroughly reengaged with the island.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Um, with the overcoming of this oppressive, oppressive corruption stuff on the island is just kind of uncovered a whole cultural miasma that is going to take a lot of work on their part and everybody's part to overcome.

[Assistant] But it's more than just like a tourist going back. I mean, you're, it's very much part of your life and you're very much part of their life.

[User] Absolutely.

[Assistant] So, I mean, it's kind of not unique, but it's just, you're lucky.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The second time we went out, it was like, wow, they really must mean it that they do love us and respect us and want to help.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] This last time and we went, the second time we went out, there were some very tragic things happen. A guy got killed, got stabbed, and we were very close to everybody involved. It was a very traumatic thing for the audience. So yeah, when we left that time, we knew we were going to be going back. And when we went this time it's like, I'm an, I'm an elder now.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I'm the fourth oldest man on the island. And I know things that nobody else knows because I was there when I was younger.

[Assistant] You're a piece of the history.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This last time and we went, the second time we went out, there were some very tragic things happen. A guy got killed, got stabbed, and we were very close to everybody involved. It was a very traumatic thing for the audience. So yeah, when we left that time, we knew we were going to be going back. And when we went this time it's like, I'm an, I'm an elder now.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I'm the fourth oldest man on the island. And I know things that nobody else knows because I was there when I was younger.

[Assistant] You're a piece of the history.

[User] Yeah, I got the history.

[Assistant] Will you likely go back again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I'm David Wessel, and I did indeed serve from 1962 to '64 in the Peace Corps in Colombia. Rural community development.

[Assistant] Great. Thank you. I'm going to turn this off and make sure it's recording.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] Here you go. So, David, let's go back to what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps. Were you in college?

[User] Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] Here you go. So, David, let's go back to what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps. Were you in college?

[User] Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great.

[User] The first Peace Corps volunteer from Louisiana.

[Assistant] Oh, you are the first. Oh wow. Well, that's very nice. Let's go a little bit farther back now when you were, uh, where did you find yourself when you were a little boy? Where did you grow up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great.

[User] The first Peace Corps volunteer from Louisiana.

[Assistant] Oh, you are the first. Oh wow. Well, that's very nice. Let's go a little bit farther back now when you were, uh, where did you find yourself when you were a little boy? Where did you grow up?

[User] I was born and raised in Miami Beach, Florida. And I was the youngest of 10 children.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was born and raised in Miami Beach, Florida. And I was the youngest of 10 children.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] My brother was a senior here at Loyola when I was a freshman, and he talked me into coming to Loyola. And of course, once you come to New Orleans, you love New Orleans.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you're very happy, especially as a college student.

[Assistant] I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My brother was a senior here at Loyola when I was a freshman, and he talked me into coming to Loyola. And of course, once you come to New Orleans, you love New Orleans.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you're very happy, especially as a college student.

[Assistant] I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?

[User] No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on.

[Assistant] Ah yes, but that was pretty local.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you're very happy, especially as a college student.

[Assistant] I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?

[User] No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on.

[Assistant] Ah yes, but that was pretty local.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it.

[Assistant] And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college.