{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.40267616032991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nancy Boggess, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was an interesting name because it was one of the few female names. Did you have a lot of experience during this journey working with other female scientists, or was that a pretty rare event at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a changing phenomenon. Many more women are going into science now than were then. Times have changed a lot. Nancy is a fine scientist. She was among the first really well-known professional women astronomers. She made the choice to go work for NASA, so she stopped actually doing astronomy, and she has made the astronomy happen with other people. She found—this is sort of reporting on her behalf—that people tended to assume she wasn’t a scientist because she was a woman.\\n\\n Even our secretarial staff here, they would write “To Mrs. Boggess and Dr. John,” so, she was pretty annoyed. She had every good reason to be annoyed, too, because she’s good! People don’t know because they didn’t. Things have changed now. When I go see who’s coming up in science now, quite often, more than half of the young people are women, so it’s changing quickly. I think that’s good; there’s a lot of talent there, so I think we need the talent. I’m glad people can do it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No matter if they’re male or female, they’ll still go through that wonderful or grueling bureaucratic process that you endured, going through all those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would change those words. Nothing was grueling about it. It was all fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it fun?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.418145339784115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of the story’s in the book there, but there were a few people here on the engineering side, the management, who figured out that we were this close to being able to stuff it back into the Delta rocket, and it needed a certain kind of major surgery, but the hard parts about the instruments didn’t have to be changed much at all. Which was almost a miracle—we were within a few pounds of not being able to fit, but we fit. There were a lot of behind-the-scenes maneuvers that went into getting that Delta rocket, and many people that you’ve heard of, like Mike [Michael D.] Griffin, were involved in that. He wasn’t even at NASA then, but he was on the other side of the fence, and he knew about all that process. He told me once that he had something to do with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was kind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As it happened, his wife was a thermal engineer here at Goddard, and she worked on the COBE project, so it’s a small world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, so there’s a little inside information there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, her name’s Becky [Rebecca Griffin]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the working relationship between engineers and scientists, and how that works well and then how the two different sides communicate."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.182205974369936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don’t think we ever could have built this project in the contract mode. Maybe, but I couldn’t see how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the instruments you did, you did have to go to other areas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We bought stuff, we’d buy stuff. The big thing we bought was the tank, the helium cryostat, which came from Ball Aerospace in Boulder, Colorado. It was a more or less copy of the one they had just built for the IRAS [Infrared Astronomical] Satellite. They had experience, and they had mastered that. That part worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a benefit for you, too, you didn’t have to go through that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. If we had had to be the first ones to build that, too, I think we never could have gotten started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time when NASA was supporting this effort, to borrow a statement from your book, it mentions that NASA had a unique opportunity to advance humanity’s knowledge about the beginning of the universe. From your experiences, can you share with the pros and cons of why you feel NASA moved forward with your project on something of this type?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.14343236453274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It suddenly went from being the dog that got to wait until everybody else was done to being, “Well, this could be the next flight after the Challenger,” and it was. It was the first science mission. It came before even the Hubble [Space Telescope, HST], and the Hubble, of course, had to go on the Shuttle, but the Hubble was the next spring after COBE launched.\\n\\n Before that, our project was at the bottom of the totem pole. Whenever anybody else had an emergency, they got to get our best engineers. I thought, “Well, this is kind of slow going, this way.” Everybody else had priority in the machine shop anyway because this was, “We’re just going to do it our way here at home,” and nobody else was pushing us to get there by a particular instant. Then, suddenly, yes, we could be the first, so then they said, “How fast could you possibly go if we give you everything you ask for?” We did it. It was a few months after what they asked, but we got it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a little change of pace, from getting whatever you could to being the first in line?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were a lot of nights and weekends for the staff, and the engineers and the technicians, they were in the clean rooms all the time, somebody was in there. There wasn’t a single quiet moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also, I believe I remember reading that someone had a concern for burnout because you guys were just working almost non-stop to get this up and going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I don’t know if anybody actually burned out, but I’m sure people were a little tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and sometimes, there are mistakes that were made, but you scheduled in a lot of testing. Talk about the importance of the tests that you were able to do, and then actually, sometimes, the re-testing to make sure, thinking outside the box, make sure that when this went, it really worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.885585070161163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s one of the few times I got to go into the clean room, was to see what they were doing that day. Mostly, I stayed out of the clean room because I knew that I’m just a kibitzer, I’m just getting in their way. They fixed it, and if we had not done that, we wouldn’t be here telling this story. It was so important to the mission. That’s where I have to say, the engineers know what they’re doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was good you had dedicated people from that side as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was an interesting statement in your book, too, about “we were lucky also in our bad luck.” I think right before, just a few weeks or so before you got ready to launch and they were supposed to be doing some testing, but then the [Loma Prieta] earthquake happened? Can you tell that story? I found that was very interesting, how that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t there in person, but it happened. There were just a few months before the actual launch, and they were putting the observatory together in California. It had already been put together here, but they had to do final tests out there, and connect it up to the rocket. Last tests, and it turned out, that was the day when two of our engineers went off to get married to each other, so the whole observatory was buttoned up. They were the quality control people, so if they’re not there, we’re not doing anything.\\n\\n That was the day of the earthquake in California—it was summer of ’89. It was a big deal. Things shook around, and if our equipment had not been buttoned down tight inside, it might have hurt itself. It might not have, but what would you do? You’d have to think and talk and argue about could it have hurt itself, is it still okay, how would you know, do you have to open it up to find out? It could have cost a vast fortune to figure that out. We were lucky about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I thought that was pretty interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.650650077956847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought it was an interesting statement in your book, too, about “we were lucky also in our bad luck.” I think right before, just a few weeks or so before you got ready to launch and they were supposed to be doing some testing, but then the [Loma Prieta] earthquake happened? Can you tell that story? I found that was very interesting, how that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn’t there in person, but it happened. There were just a few months before the actual launch, and they were putting the observatory together in California. It had already been put together here, but they had to do final tests out there, and connect it up to the rocket. Last tests, and it turned out, that was the day when two of our engineers went off to get married to each other, so the whole observatory was buttoned up. They were the quality control people, so if they’re not there, we’re not doing anything.\\n\\n That was the day of the earthquake in California—it was summer of ’89. It was a big deal. Things shook around, and if our equipment had not been buttoned down tight inside, it might have hurt itself. It might not have, but what would you do? You’d have to think and talk and argue about could it have hurt itself, is it still okay, how would you know, do you have to open it up to find out? It could have cost a vast fortune to figure that out. We were lucky about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I thought that was pretty interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, there was another lucky about our unluckiness event. I don’t know if I called it that, but after launch, did you see that thing about the gyro that failed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Share that with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.58360193123633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It feels like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Watching projects go through a 15-, 18-year process, like you mentioned, you didn’t survive as much as you were championed and helped along the way. In mentoring these new scientists coming up, do you have suggestions for them on how best to work their way through this new fiscal environment, or an environment that the quality of the work is not what is driving the project as much as the cost and scheduling aspect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that’s actually any different than it was. We just all try to do the best we can and see a way forward. There’s no general answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do see similarities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My view of science is sort of like, how do the ants find the sugar in your house? They look everywhere. How does the water get through the flat roof? It goes everywhere, it tries everything. If you’re persistent, you’ll find a way, and it’ll be a different way every time, but you’ll get there. The main thing is just don’t give up if you’ve got a good idea. Eventually somebody will help you find the way. The other ants will find the sugar, and then you’ll all get some. That’s my version of persistence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.7595577013737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that’s actually any different than it was. We just all try to do the best we can and see a way forward. There’s no general answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do see similarities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My view of science is sort of like, how do the ants find the sugar in your house? They look everywhere. How does the water get through the flat roof? It goes everywhere, it tries everything. If you’re persistent, you’ll find a way, and it’ll be a different way every time, but you’ll get there. The main thing is just don’t give up if you’ve got a good idea. Eventually somebody will help you find the way. The other ants will find the sugar, and then you’ll all get some. That’s my version of persistence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s nothing noble about it; you just want to do it, and let’s find a way, and eventually it’ll turn up. How do you solve a giant crossword puzzle? One letter at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you’re giving your philosophy, I remember reading that you said your picture of good science begins with obtaining good hard data, with new and evermore ingenious instruments that will include Mother Nature to yield her secrets to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.28839744597078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. My view of science is sort of like, how do the ants find the sugar in your house? They look everywhere. How does the water get through the flat roof? It goes everywhere, it tries everything. If you’re persistent, you’ll find a way, and it’ll be a different way every time, but you’ll get there. The main thing is just don’t give up if you’ve got a good idea. Eventually somebody will help you find the way. The other ants will find the sugar, and then you’ll all get some. That’s my version of persistence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s nothing noble about it; you just want to do it, and let’s find a way, and eventually it’ll turn up. How do you solve a giant crossword puzzle? One letter at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you’re giving your philosophy, I remember reading that you said your picture of good science begins with obtaining good hard data, with new and evermore ingenious instruments that will include Mother Nature to yield her secrets to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a really good basis for any scientist, I guess, to move forward?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 39.20933049552309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s nothing noble about it; you just want to do it, and let’s find a way, and eventually it’ll turn up. How do you solve a giant crossword puzzle? One letter at a time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you’re giving your philosophy, I remember reading that you said your picture of good science begins with obtaining good hard data, with new and evermore ingenious instruments that will include Mother Nature to yield her secrets to us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a really good basis for any scientist, I guess, to move forward?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it the hard part for scientists to figure out what they want to do when there’s so much to choose from?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.46046721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had no idea what we had started. When we started off, I said, “We just have to measure because that’s all there is to do.” We didn’t know that there would be a huge industry. There are many hundreds of people, maybe a thousand people, around the world that are personally, every day, working on the cosmic background radiation and its meaning. We never knew, you could never have guessed that, because you hadn’t got the result yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you thought you were possibly ending your project just started many, many more, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Since COBE, there have been two more satellite missions flown, the WMAP [Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe], which was ours here at Goddard, with Princeton University [New Jersey], and then the Planck mission, which is the European [Space Agency] one, with some American participation. They have pushed the subject so far, and there’s more yet to go. We have a proposal here at Goddard for yet the successor for that, and other people are working on their other ideas. I think there’s going to be yet a fourth cosmology satellite. That may or may not come to the end of what you can do with that.\\n\\n I feel very privileged to have been there at the beginning. I was a person whose luck just went that way, and I cannot say that that was because I was smart or had good strategy because I actually tried to go some other direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were drawn into that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got drawn in. This is an example of how it’s a very social phenomenon that we’re in. We do it because our friends are doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting. Share with us, before we close, what are your expectations for the James Webb Space Telescope?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.1782969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Since COBE, there have been two more satellite missions flown, the WMAP [Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe], which was ours here at Goddard, with Princeton University [New Jersey], and then the Planck mission, which is the European [Space Agency] one, with some American participation. They have pushed the subject so far, and there’s more yet to go. We have a proposal here at Goddard for yet the successor for that, and other people are working on their other ideas. I think there’s going to be yet a fourth cosmology satellite. That may or may not come to the end of what you can do with that.\\n\\n I feel very privileged to have been there at the beginning. I was a person whose luck just went that way, and I cannot say that that was because I was smart or had good strategy because I actually tried to go some other direction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were drawn into that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got drawn in. This is an example of how it’s a very social phenomenon that we’re in. We do it because our friends are doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting. Share with us, before we close, what are your expectations for the James Webb Space Telescope?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m expecting wonderful surprises, and I don’t know what they’ll be. I know what people have said they wanted to try, and we’ve designed the observatory so that it can observe the first stars and objects that formed after the early universe. We call it the Big Bang, which is, by the way, a really rotten name for something completely spectacular. Big Bang just isn’t big enough to explain that—how about an infinite and expanding universe?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We are, actually. People are already having a committee. We started meeting last week on the phone to think what is it that we would recommend we prepare? It’s too soon to tell you really what we need because you should decide what you need after you get a little farther. But we know in basically ideas, for build a bigger telescope, we could build a bigger one, that could do more about planets around other stars. Then, there are the other mysteries. What is the dark matter, the dark energy, and other things that will turn up? You don’t necessarily need the same telescope for all these problems. There will be surprises. Somebody might actually find dark matter in the lab. They’re working on that, too, and with technology that some of us here at NASA started to build.\\n\\n Harvey [Samuel H.] Moseley, who was here in my office when you first arrived, is one of the inventors of this technology of really, really, really sensitive low-temperature equipment that can maybe tell is a dark matter particle occurs in your equipment. A lot of ideas, so there are a lot of pathways to answers, and who knows? We’ll have ideas for next committees to consider and recommend our future in the next generations of telescopes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have anything else you’d like to add, or is there more things you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could talk forever, but I probably shouldn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t want to miss anything, but we certainly don’t want to take all your morning. We know you have lots to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, it really is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have anything else you’d like to add, or is there more things you’d like to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could talk forever, but I probably shouldn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t want to miss anything, but we certainly don’t want to take all your morning. We know you have lots to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to write another book?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could talk forever, but I probably shouldn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We don’t want to miss anything, but we certainly don’t want to take all your morning. We know you have lots to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to write another book?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking about it, but I’m thinking about what book to write because I’ve gotten to retirement age, if I feel like it. I’m thinking, what else do I want to tell people, and is it worth telling them? Right now, I’m in the research phase. I’m saying, “I’m going to read all the coolest science books I can find and see if there’s anything they’re not saying.” I’m enjoying that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is fun for you to have the time, at this point, to be able to do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00855:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you going to write another book?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking about it, but I’m thinking about what book to write because I’ve gotten to retirement age, if I feel like it. I’m thinking, what else do I want to tell people, and is it worth telling them? Right now, I’m in the research phase. I’m saying, “I’m going to read all the coolest science books I can find and see if there’s anything they’re not saying.” I’m enjoying that part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is fun for you to have the time, at this point, to be able to do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do and I don’t, but it’s a possibility. I don’t think I just want to write another book. I want to write a book about something that interests me, and what would it be? It’s probably the stuff I don’t know about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then that’s a lot, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.466520198278545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly it was familiarization. We would go into the Mir mock-ups so we’d be better able to visualize the configuration of the Mir station itself. Also we visited the factory where they were building the docking module, and we saw a lot of the equipment. It helped us understand the module itself, the hardware that was going to interface with the Space Shuttle airlock. A bit of it was touring, a few things like the Energiya Museum. It just was a good field trip to get to understand better the Russian space program and Roscosmos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The hardware wasn’t built yet. How did you train on it here in the States?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of it was with simulators. Of course, we very rarely train using flight hardware. It was ironic years later when I was training in the Hydrolab. I saw the Hydrolab mock-ups of the docking module, the one that we had flown. Their water-training mock-up was sitting on the ground outside the Hydrolab. Said, “I recognized that.” It was funny. When we designed our patch, all we saw were engineering diagrams of it, so in our patch it’s white. The insulating blankets on the outside of it were actually burnt orange; so okay, patch is wrong, too late."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you feel about being selected for this mission, having been a military person for so long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of us on the crew were career military. Ken Cameron, Marine; Jim [James D.] Halsell, Air Force; Jerry [L.] Ross, Air Force; Chris Hadfield, Canadian Air Force; and myself. We were all thrilled to do a mission, and Yuri Gidzenko was Russian Air Force, and Sergei Avdeyev was a civilian cosmonaut, an Energiya cosmonaut, and then Thomas Reiter was with the Luftwaffe. We all enjoyed that post-Cold War opportunity to build a camaraderie with our Russian counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that this was an all-military crew. How did it differ from your first crew, which included a vet [veterinarian]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.074787651959596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say a bigger difference is that it was an all-male crew and there were no women on it, which is closely related to why, in my opinion, we are so successful working with the Russians. The reason is because we are focused on solving the same problems. These problems are how we cope with the laws of physics, for example. If you calculate orbital velocity required to match up with an orbiting space station, it’s not a multiple-choice test. There is a solution. There is a velocity you have to achieve. There is an orbital plane you have to be in. I think that it takes away in many cases an environment in which you can have a difference of opinion, because the answer to these problems are engineering solutions and they’re not soft answers; they’re not opinions. I think that helps people focus very well.\\n\\n I did enjoy, on STS-58 and STS-92, having women on the crew. I don’t want to call it a more normal environment, but there is a feeling of—I’ll think of a way to describe this that isn’t funny. Women bring an additional dimension of strength and harmony on the crew, the absence of which was not a problem on 74, and certainly wasn’t a problem for Valery [Tokarev] and me on ISS, but it I think enriches the experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. Had you worked with any of the other folks on your crew previously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 74?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Halsell and I were in the same astronaut class, so of course we’d done a bit of traveling and a good bit of training together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else on the crew? Or was this pretty much a new culture for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 40.08309739106622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 74?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Halsell and I were in the same astronaut class, so of course we’d done a bit of traveling and a good bit of training together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else on the crew? Or was this pretty much a new culture for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d been in the Office for five years at this point, so I knew everyone on the crew pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "STS-74 was the first time we had astronauts in the same lab at the same time from the U.S., Russia, ESA, and Canada. Talk about that historic mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 30.09233043451802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jim Halsell and I were in the same astronaut class, so of course we’d done a bit of traveling and a good bit of training together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anybody else on the crew? Or was this pretty much a new culture for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d been in the Office for five years at this point, so I knew everyone on the crew pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "STS-74 was the first time we had astronauts in the same lab at the same time from the U.S., Russia, ESA, and Canada. Talk about that historic mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is interesting. We were the second mission to dock with Mir, and because of the number of nations that were represented we took up a copy of the UN [United Nations] Space Treaty. The Administrator, Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin, was very interested in talking to the crew, at least one person from each country.\\n\\n Ken and Chris and all the Mir crewmembers were invited to participate in the conversation with Mr. Goldin, and Jim, Jerry, and I were invited to be elsewhere in the spacecraft. I remember the cosmonauts in particular. They loved the number of windows on the Shuttle flight deck, and they expressed a strong preference that the future International Space Station be equipped with a generous number of windows. It took a while, but when the Cupola finally went up in, I think, 2010, that finally happened; unfortunately, I didn’t get to enjoy that view.\\n\\n Another thing, on STS-74 in 1995 we flew during the government shutdown that year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wanted to ask about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.93323790743212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was interesting. It affected us very little. We were asked by management not to query the ground about the government shutdown. We would try to in an indirect way like [asking], “How’s parking today?”\\n\\n They’re like, “Yes, parking is still real good.”\\n\\n Otherwise we didn’t see any effect real-time. However, if we didn’t fly the first professional-grade digital camera, it was maybe the second time this Kodak DCS, think it was 460, was flown. We were doing our best to take pictures and downlink them, assuming that they would be a big hit on the ground.\\n\\n The photo/TV folks in Building 8 were evidently deemed nonessential, so those pictures were not released real-time. For a long time, it was very difficult to find them in the NASA archives. I don’t know if I just wasn’t looking in the right place. Of course when you fall behind it takes a lot of effort and real diligence to then catch up. It was disappointing to get back and find out that those pictures had not been released to the media while there was a little more excitement in the public.\\n\\n We were docked to Mir for two days. The first day I went over with the digital camera and took a good number of pictures. Our joint crew photo on our montage is one of those pictures. Then the next morning we got a note from the ground, and it said the digital camera had not been certified for use on board Mir, so we couldn’t take it back over the second day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the potential danger there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows? Electromagnetic interference. But it’s like, “Okay, we won’t do that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a bummer. One of the things that I had read about your mission was that you guys actually decided to create a website, the Utterly Unofficial Website of STS-74. Do you remember that website?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that at all. That’s interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was curious about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.905559986941192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have a very generous supply of Blue Bell ice cream at our postlanding party."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The official ice cream of STS-74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure they couldn’t do anything official, but they seemed very pleased with the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you spend much time learning Russian for this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a significant amount, but that’s when I began studying Russian. Ironically, as I mentioned, Ken Cameron had been the first DOR. Later Jim Halsell was the DOR. Then I became the DOR for a while, and then Chris Hadfield replaced me as the DOR. Out of the five of us on the crew, four of us served as the DOR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Was that a] coincidence?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 35.450622207712435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure they couldn’t do anything official, but they seemed very pleased with the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you spend much time learning Russian for this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a significant amount, but that’s when I began studying Russian. Ironically, as I mentioned, Ken Cameron had been the first DOR. Later Jim Halsell was the DOR. Then I became the DOR for a while, and then Chris Hadfield replaced me as the DOR. Out of the five of us on the crew, four of us served as the DOR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Was that a] coincidence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course really it wouldn’t be a coincidence. I think we all enjoyed our experience of working with the Russian space program and the cosmonauts, really a very collegial group. They’re a very welcoming group. Once we were over there and got to experience Russia a little bit, several of us thought it might be good, instead of just dipping our toe in the pool, to go ahead in all the way. Or it could be like the frozen lake in Star City, maybe we were all going to jump through a hole in the ice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the experiments you were working on, just as you had on your previous flight, was the SAREX [Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment]. Had anything changed since then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 56.834364556721646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s something that I’ve thought about in retrospect. I think we just had so much to do that it was okay. But I don’t think any crew after that [did so]. Later I think that we adopted in the Astronaut Office more [crew] for really critical tasks where you have a prime operator and a backup who’s keeping an eye on things, reading procedures, better cockpit resource management."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think that was helpful when you went on Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On STS-92 it was. On Station not so much, because with just Valery and me there, we tended to rely more on the ground to be your second set of eyes. That worked out pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Plume Experiment. There was another one, a Risk Mitigation Experiment on the Mir Wireless Network. I was curious if you could talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually ISS had a wireless instrumentation system on it, so again I don’t remember much about that. I think we had wireless instrumentation on STS-92. I’m sure we didn’t have any on the outside on STS-74, but we may have had some on the inside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things we didn’t talk about are ceremonies. A lot of times when you connect with another spacecraft there’s a big welcoming ceremony and gifts are exchanged. Was that the case on that flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 47.18823831191352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about that? Anything memorable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s always gracious. We’re all just a little sadder now that he’s passed away, but he was just very gracious. After STS-58 we were doing our Capitol Hill stuff, and they were more interested in my visiting with members of the North Carolina congressional delegation than Texas, not being a native Texan. So I went to Senator [Jesse] Helms’s office and visited with him for a little while. He called the photographer in, had me sit at his desk, and pick up the phone like I was actually doing some business. It was like, “Okay.” After Washington I think the cosmonauts went back to Russia, and we came back to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No trips to Russia for PR [Public Relations]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of a light PR load after that flight, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 28, "return_to_go": 51.32026479101502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s always gracious. We’re all just a little sadder now that he’s passed away, but he was just very gracious. After STS-58 we were doing our Capitol Hill stuff, and they were more interested in my visiting with members of the North Carolina congressional delegation than Texas, not being a native Texan. So I went to Senator [Jesse] Helms’s office and visited with him for a little while. He called the photographer in, had me sit at his desk, and pick up the phone like I was actually doing some business. It was like, “Okay.” After Washington I think the cosmonauts went back to Russia, and we came back to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No trips to Russia for PR [Public Relations]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of a light PR load after that flight, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember much about it. We did some of the obligatory [events], go to KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at your biosheet, and it’s interesting because there’s a period of about five years that doesn’t contain much information. You have your flight, then you’ve got your next mission. Is that when you became DOR? Were you working on some other assignments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.258746163912917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I only had one dive in Marshall, and that was that welding experiment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help weigh in on the type of needs you might have at the NBL, how it might be designed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help certify the facility once it came online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I don’t know. One of our runs may have been associated with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing having spent five years basically preparing for your next flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.50971795990324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help certify the facility once it came online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I don’t know. One of our runs may have been associated with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing having spent five years basically preparing for your next flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Then I spent four and a half years preparing for the one after that. I once remarked most of my astronaut career was almost ideal. What did you do? I trained and flew, trained and flew. I was getting closer to my ISS flight, and I was walking down the hall behind a younger astronaut, and he complained, “I was sitting in meetings all day.”\\n\\n I said, “I really hope someday to have a job in which I sit in meetings all day and drink coffee.” Be careful what you ask for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been nice for your family at that point while you were training for these EVAs because you weren’t on travel. You were able to spend more time with your wife and daughters."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.7885755110036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. I don’t know. One of our runs may have been associated with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing having spent five years basically preparing for your next flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Then I spent four and a half years preparing for the one after that. I once remarked most of my astronaut career was almost ideal. What did you do? I trained and flew, trained and flew. I was getting closer to my ISS flight, and I was walking down the hall behind a younger astronaut, and he complained, “I was sitting in meetings all day.”\\n\\n I said, “I really hope someday to have a job in which I sit in meetings all day and drink coffee.” Be careful what you ask for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been nice for your family at that point while you were training for these EVAs because you weren’t on travel. You were able to spend more time with your wife and daughters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part. I do remember the time we were in Cocoa Beach at dinner. The phone rings and my wife says, “When are you coming home?”\\n\\n I said, “Tomorrow.”\\n\\n “Where are you?”\\n\\n “In Florida.”\\n\\n “Did you tell me you were going to Florida?”\\n\\n “Uh, maybe not. Did I tell you I was going to Florida?”\\n\\n “No, you didn’t.”\\n\\n “Oh. Sorry. I’ll be back tomorrow.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She probably got used to you being around."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.320639456670666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. Then I spent four and a half years preparing for the one after that. I once remarked most of my astronaut career was almost ideal. What did you do? I trained and flew, trained and flew. I was getting closer to my ISS flight, and I was walking down the hall behind a younger astronaut, and he complained, “I was sitting in meetings all day.”\\n\\n I said, “I really hope someday to have a job in which I sit in meetings all day and drink coffee.” Be careful what you ask for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been nice for your family at that point while you were training for these EVAs because you weren’t on travel. You were able to spend more time with your wife and daughters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part. I do remember the time we were in Cocoa Beach at dinner. The phone rings and my wife says, “When are you coming home?”\\n\\n I said, “Tomorrow.”\\n\\n “Where are you?”\\n\\n “In Florida.”\\n\\n “Did you tell me you were going to Florida?”\\n\\n “Uh, maybe not. Did I tell you I was going to Florida?”\\n\\n “No, you didn’t.”\\n\\n “Oh. Sorry. I’ll be back tomorrow.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She probably got used to you being around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. For 92 we also did a couple of trips to Russia, and they were a lot of fun. By then the cottages had been built, so we actually stayed out in Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about those cottages?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.467377174078518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part. I do remember the time we were in Cocoa Beach at dinner. The phone rings and my wife says, “When are you coming home?”\\n\\n I said, “Tomorrow.”\\n\\n “Where are you?”\\n\\n “In Florida.”\\n\\n “Did you tell me you were going to Florida?”\\n\\n “Uh, maybe not. Did I tell you I was going to Florida?”\\n\\n “No, you didn’t.”\\n\\n “Oh. Sorry. I’ll be back tomorrow.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She probably got used to you being around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. For 92 we also did a couple of trips to Russia, and they were a lot of fun. By then the cottages had been built, so we actually stayed out in Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about those cottages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re duplexes. They are three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath, got really a westernish kitchen. When I say western, Western European style appliances, wooden floors, a fireplace. I never put a fire in the fireplace. That was too bad, that would have been kind of cozy in the wintertime. By then had pretty reasonable Internet access. Had Kosmos TV, which was a cablevision service. They had several English language channels, so if you really wanted to watch English TV you could.\\n\\n They each had a basement. Cottages 3 and 4, in the basement of Cottage 3 was Shep’s Bar; the basement of Cottage 4—and you could go from one side to the other—was our gym. What was really nice about being there when I was training for ISS is if you were on one of the prime crews, you had a permanently assigned bedroom. Now if you weren’t there someone else would stay in it. If you were there that was your bedroom, so you could leave clothes in the closet and in the chest of drawers. It made it pretty convenient going back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a nice place. Was that something that NASA put money in to build? Or was that something that was really Russia’s?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.630419082309462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. For 92 we also did a couple of trips to Russia, and they were a lot of fun. By then the cottages had been built, so we actually stayed out in Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about those cottages?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re duplexes. They are three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath, got really a westernish kitchen. When I say western, Western European style appliances, wooden floors, a fireplace. I never put a fire in the fireplace. That was too bad, that would have been kind of cozy in the wintertime. By then had pretty reasonable Internet access. Had Kosmos TV, which was a cablevision service. They had several English language channels, so if you really wanted to watch English TV you could.\\n\\n They each had a basement. Cottages 3 and 4, in the basement of Cottage 3 was Shep’s Bar; the basement of Cottage 4—and you could go from one side to the other—was our gym. What was really nice about being there when I was training for ISS is if you were on one of the prime crews, you had a permanently assigned bedroom. Now if you weren’t there someone else would stay in it. If you were there that was your bedroom, so you could leave clothes in the closet and in the chest of drawers. It made it pretty convenient going back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a nice place. Was that something that NASA put money in to build? Or was that something that was really Russia’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The story is NASA put money in to build it. I think a Swedish company came in and built them, but they were owned by Star City. NASA paid rent for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty nice based on previous accommodations I’ve heard about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.033798980343846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re duplexes. They are three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath, got really a westernish kitchen. When I say western, Western European style appliances, wooden floors, a fireplace. I never put a fire in the fireplace. That was too bad, that would have been kind of cozy in the wintertime. By then had pretty reasonable Internet access. Had Kosmos TV, which was a cablevision service. They had several English language channels, so if you really wanted to watch English TV you could.\\n\\n They each had a basement. Cottages 3 and 4, in the basement of Cottage 3 was Shep’s Bar; the basement of Cottage 4—and you could go from one side to the other—was our gym. What was really nice about being there when I was training for ISS is if you were on one of the prime crews, you had a permanently assigned bedroom. Now if you weren’t there someone else would stay in it. If you were there that was your bedroom, so you could leave clothes in the closet and in the chest of drawers. It made it pretty convenient going back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a nice place. Was that something that NASA put money in to build? Or was that something that was really Russia’s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The story is NASA put money in to build it. I think a Swedish company came in and built them, but they were owned by Star City. NASA paid rent for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty nice based on previous accommodations I’ve heard about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first went over as the DOR my wife and I actually stayed in one of the Russian high-rise apartment buildings, and we had a three-bedroom apartment, which was a little bit older than the cottages and I would say not westernized. But it was a great experience. We really enjoyed living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[I] wanted to ask about STS-92. I notice that it was the hundredth flight of the Space Shuttle Program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.70422108927094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The story is NASA put money in to build it. I think a Swedish company came in and built them, but they were owned by Star City. NASA paid rent for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds pretty nice based on previous accommodations I’ve heard about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first went over as the DOR my wife and I actually stayed in one of the Russian high-rise apartment buildings, and we had a three-bedroom apartment, which was a little bit older than the cottages and I would say not westernized. But it was a great experience. We really enjoyed living there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[I] wanted to ask about STS-92. I notice that it was the hundredth flight of the Space Shuttle Program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA celebrates all those [anniversaries]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.96817418428511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA celebrates all those [anniversaries]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did not celebrate that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did not. For some reason the approach was, “Let’s not make a big deal out of this one. It’s just another Shuttle mission.” Really? Okay, fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been disappointing to the crew."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.631304649205674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did not celebrate that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did not. For some reason the approach was, “Let’s not make a big deal out of this one. It’s just another Shuttle mission.” Really? Okay, fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been disappointing to the crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so happy being there. In retrospect, I just scratch my head over it a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of figured there would have been this big momentous event."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.70144961022852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did not. For some reason the approach was, “Let’s not make a big deal out of this one. It’s just another Shuttle mission.” Really? Okay, fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must have been disappointing to the crew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so happy being there. In retrospect, I just scratch my head over it a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of figured there would have been this big momentous event."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect you go, “I don’t exactly understand the logic there.” Here with this new astronaut class, we really capitalized on the opportunity to draw a lot of attention to that. It seems counterintuitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much so. Tell me about seeing the International Space Station for the first time as you approached."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 44.1127217891428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so happy being there. In retrospect, I just scratch my head over it a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of figured there would have been this big momentous event."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect you go, “I don’t exactly understand the logic there.” Here with this new astronaut class, we really capitalized on the opportunity to draw a lot of attention to that. It seems counterintuitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much so. Tell me about seeing the International Space Station for the first time as you approached."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was pretty cool, in part because we had trained so much. It seemed big. As a matter of fact, when I went out for my first EVA, I’m going out on my back. I’m looking up, and I see it up there, and I say something like, “Oh, goodness, it’s huge.” In retrospect of course it really wasn’t that big. At that time, it wasn’t as big as Mir. We hadn’t put the Z1 truss on it yet. It was long and skinny with solar arrays on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned going out for your first EVA. Would you talk about that? What were your feelings as you were going out?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.68080198793645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect you go, “I don’t exactly understand the logic there.” Here with this new astronaut class, we really capitalized on the opportunity to draw a lot of attention to that. It seems counterintuitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very much so. Tell me about seeing the International Space Station for the first time as you approached."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was pretty cool, in part because we had trained so much. It seemed big. As a matter of fact, when I went out for my first EVA, I’m going out on my back. I’m looking up, and I see it up there, and I say something like, “Oh, goodness, it’s huge.” In retrospect of course it really wasn’t that big. At that time, it wasn’t as big as Mir. We hadn’t put the Z1 truss on it yet. It was long and skinny with solar arrays on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned going out for your first EVA. Would you talk about that? What were your feelings as you were going out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really excited. I was the second one out of the hatch then. I’d always wanted to do EVAs, so I was just really thrilled to have the chance. You go out, and it feels good. It’s more comfortable than working in the NBL, because you’re actually floating inside the suit instead of gravity pulling you to the lowest point of the suit. It was very satisfying.\\n\\n I did a lot of work attached to the end of the arm. Koichi [Wakata] would move me from worksite to worksite. That was really thrilling because while you’re in transit you just look around. You can’t turn your whole [body]—you twist around a little bit. Then a few times as he’d be moving the arm around I would be able to see nothing in my field of view, no Earth, no spacecraft, no nothing. That was breathtaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any sort of overwhelming feeling like you might fall as you came out of the Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 22.586382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are just the little habitability techniques. Things as simple as when you open food, don’t create extra trash. If you’re going to open a container, don’t cut the top off, because now you got trash floating around. To things like go spend some time just looking out the window; go get up on the nightside.\\n\\n Shannon had a technique where we would get along the top circuit breaker panel and get our heads up in the forward windows, and then just be there as you went around the nightside. She said she liked to imagine that she was in an alien spaceship just approaching Earth, or even a nonalien, but on a spaceship approaching a new planet for the first time. Those were all a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of going into Space Station for the first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember how far we got in. We got in the node, and it was pretty big. It had a large diameter. I think all of us took one night when we slept on board ISS. I decided right then and there that I wanted to be there for a much longer period of time. It was new, pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had that new car smell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came back from the mission did you talk with the chief of the Astronaut Office about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.09598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to remember how far we got in. We got in the node, and it was pretty big. It had a large diameter. I think all of us took one night when we slept on board ISS. I decided right then and there that I wanted to be there for a much longer period of time. It was new, pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had that new car smell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came back from the mission did you talk with the chief of the Astronaut Office about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d already been talking to him about that, and I came back. I was already lined up to replace Scott [J.] Kelly as the DOR. Gosh, I’d already been making the arrangements, working with HR [Human Resources], to retire from the Army and convert to civil service. It wasn’t a quid pro quo, but it was I’d like to convert to civil service, and they go, “Okay, and would you be willing to go be the DOR?”\\n\\n I said, “Yes, I’d be willing to do that.”\\n\\n Then there was this, “And maybe Expedition 7 or something, or 8.”\\n\\n I said, “Yes, we’ll cross that.”\\n\\n By the time I got to Russia I know I knew I was going to be on Expedition 8, because I had three bosses. I had Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt, chief of the office. I had Mike [Michael A.] Baker, who was the manager for the ISS Program who was located in Moscow, and then Mike [C. Michael] Foale, who was going to be Expedition 8 commander. All three of them were giving me things to do. I have three bosses. Okay, got it. “So which one of you will I offend today?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your last Shuttle mission I noticed that you got delayed for a couple of days. What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00391:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.6622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you came back from the mission did you talk with the chief of the Astronaut Office about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d already been talking to him about that, and I came back. I was already lined up to replace Scott [J.] Kelly as the DOR. Gosh, I’d already been making the arrangements, working with HR [Human Resources], to retire from the Army and convert to civil service. It wasn’t a quid pro quo, but it was I’d like to convert to civil service, and they go, “Okay, and would you be willing to go be the DOR?”\\n\\n I said, “Yes, I’d be willing to do that.”\\n\\n Then there was this, “And maybe Expedition 7 or something, or 8.”\\n\\n I said, “Yes, we’ll cross that.”\\n\\n By the time I got to Russia I know I knew I was going to be on Expedition 8, because I had three bosses. I had Charlie [Charles J.] Precourt, chief of the office. I had Mike [Michael A.] Baker, who was the manager for the ISS Program who was located in Moscow, and then Mike [C. Michael] Foale, who was going to be Expedition 8 commander. All three of them were giving me things to do. I have three bosses. Okay, got it. “So which one of you will I offend today?”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your last Shuttle mission I noticed that you got delayed for a couple of days. What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was about six days. Ooh, idle hands are the devil’s playground. We got in trouble. We drank a lot of wine, that’s for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had wine on board the Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00002:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.23951115556159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[interposing] Yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What aspects of your current position do y ou most enjoy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoy being able to thrive in chaos, being able t o channel all of my experiences from the past twenty-four years, and be prepared to answer anything. Just before we started, the Archivist said: “Find me an example of the earliest records of the U.S. Secret Service, for the event that we are going to do tonight.” And I’m just thinking, you know, I remembered working with an archivist where he took me to a stack and showed me some records of the Treasury Department from the Civil War. There was this ledger of Pinkerton’s agents, who became Secret Service. This was their payroll. So, I’m just thinking, you know, I remember this from the past, I remember the archivist, I remember the staff, and I can apply it. So, I guess the greatest thrill for me is being able to apply everything, whether it’s professional or hobbies, what have you, to this job, and make it work, because I feel like I’m flying without a net. I don’t think there was a formal training for this job. I don’t think there is a formal training for this job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s why I skipped that question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, now you bring it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, continue. I was just joking."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00002:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 49.155012395068425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I enjoy being able to thrive in chaos, being able t o channel all of my experiences from the past twenty-four years, and be prepared to answer anything. Just before we started, the Archivist said: “Find me an example of the earliest records of the U.S. Secret Service, for the event that we are going to do tonight.” And I’m just thinking, you know, I remembered working with an archivist where he took me to a stack and showed me some records of the Treasury Department from the Civil War. There was this ledger of Pinkerton’s agents, who became Secret Service. This was their payroll. So, I’m just thinking, you know, I remember this from the past, I remember the archivist, I remember the staff, and I can apply it. So, I guess the greatest thrill for me is being able to apply everything, whether it’s professional or hobbies, what have you, to this job, and make it work, because I feel like I’m flying without a net. I don’t think there was a formal training for this job. I don’t think there is a formal training for this job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s why I skipped that question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, now you bring it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, continue. I was just joking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to create formal training. I think a manual could be created for a special assistant. I think it could be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of curiosity, what are those Pinkerton records?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00002:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 41.283347105631584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, now you bring it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, continue. I was just joking."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to create formal training. I think a manual could be created for a special assistant. I think it could be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Out of curiosity, what are those Pinkerton records?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. The Pinkerton records were, I think, from the Treasury, from the Department of the Treasury, and it was from the Civil War. I can’t remember exactly what year. But what I remembered was in a stack area, mid-level, on the west side of this building. Rick Peuser, Richard Peuser, who now works up at College Park, great guy, very helpful, and I’ll put him down as kind of a one-off mentor. Rick Peuser had an enthusiasm about his job, and it affected me, kind of like Connie Potter and Ken Heger, they all were passionate about their job, but Rick had this outgoing style that appealed to me, that I could relate to, and we were also close in age, so I felt like we had more in common. But Rick showed me this record. It was a grey Hollinger box, and he opened it up, and it was this listing of names of people from the Pinkerton Agency, which was a private company doing security and what have you, and it was their payroll for that particular month, and they were getting paid for working for the Federal government. And, as I’ve learned over the years, that eventually became what we now know as the Secret Service. For some people it might not be anything but right now it means the world to my boss, so I have to find a way to find it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe a typical day in your unit?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00002:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.5561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s helping. It’s helping me. It’s helping m y job, and I think it’s going to help the researcher eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe your involvements with other pr ofessional organizations, such as SAA, or OAH?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t, I’m not a member of any of them. The y come here to the Archives because we have various leaders who meet with them—so I see them as I’m preparing the Archivist for a meeting. I know they have a benefit and a purpose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Emily, do you have any questions before w e conclude?\n\nI’m okay.\n\nIs there anything you would like to add to the interview such as anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that the strength of this agency, well, what I like to promote about it are the records and the people. It’s the people, and I think that some of the hardest working people are the reference archivists, the staff who deal with the general public, with their research questions, who become familiar with the records. I wish we could find a way to increase them fivefold. They are great. I just think about the years here, and you know, look outside my window, and here I am with an office on the mezzanine level of what we used to call mahogany row, and I get to see Pennsylvania Avenue—I think: jeez, I’m sitting here, and you’re actually asking me questions. I’m humbled by it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are humbled by the opportunity to ask you questions."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00002:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 21.729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t, I’m not a member of any of them. The y come here to the Archives because we have various leaders who meet with them—so I see them as I’m preparing the Archivist for a meeting. I know they have a benefit and a purpose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Emily, do you have any questions before w e conclude?\n\nI’m okay.\n\nIs there anything you would like to add to the interview such as anecdotes or words of wisdom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that the strength of this agency, well, what I like to promote about it are the records and the people. It’s the people, and I think that some of the hardest working people are the reference archivists, the staff who deal with the general public, with their research questions, who become familiar with the records. I wish we could find a way to increase them fivefold. They are great. I just think about the years here, and you know, look outside my window, and here I am with an office on the mezzanine level of what we used to call mahogany row, and I get to see Pennsylvania Avenue—I think: jeez, I’m sitting here, and you’re actually asking me questions. I’m humbled by it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are humbled by the opportunity to ask you questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You may be my boss one day, who knows, because I realized, you know, time is changing, and I was your age once. I am 46 years old, I could retire in eleven years—I could retire from the Federal government in eleven years, and by then, I will have had 35 years in government. Me, I don’t feel old, well, I do, I physically feel old, but I still feel like a kid in a candy store. I feel like there’s always something new to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory—isn’t the National Archives kind of like it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:358", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.703260992478829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave Scott.\n\nScott, yes.\n\nDave Scott.\n\nScott and [James B.] Irwin were on that flight.\n\nYes. Then 16 was John [W.] Young and—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Charlie [Charles M.] Duke and Ken [Thomas K.] Mattingly [II]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and Charlie Duke, on the surface. Seventeen was Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan.\n\nSchmitt.\n\nSchmitt and the Navy guy, Navy captain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Ronald E.] Evans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ron Evans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think 15 was also the mission where when they were reentering, that they had one of the parachutes collapse because of the venting. Did you do any of the post-flight analysis work on that, any of the materials or anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:364", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.114734436087588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—and Charlie Duke, on the surface. Seventeen was Gene [Eugene A.] Cernan.\n\nSchmitt.\n\nSchmitt and the Navy guy, Navy captain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Ronald E.] Evans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ron Evans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think 15 was also the mission where when they were reentering, that they had one of the parachutes collapse because of the venting. Did you do any of the post-flight analysis work on that, any of the materials or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. We very likely did test the materials on a chute, but I don't know that we did it as a result of that incident. I don't remember anything about it. We weren't in the chute business, other than materials business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any other—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:368", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.57192715120843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ron Evans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think 15 was also the mission where when they were reentering, that they had one of the parachutes collapse because of the venting. Did you do any of the post-flight analysis work on that, any of the materials or anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. We very likely did test the materials on a chute, but I don't know that we did it as a result of that incident. I don't remember anything about it. We weren't in the chute business, other than materials business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any other—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, wait a minute. Hang on a minute. Repeat what you said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifteen was the one where they were venting the RCS after they entered the atmosphere."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:370", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.034606018162421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know. We very likely did test the materials on a chute, but I don't know that we did it as a result of that incident. I don't remember anything about it. We weren't in the chute business, other than materials business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any other—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, wait a minute. Hang on a minute. Repeat what you said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifteen was the one where they were venting the RCS after they entered the atmosphere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was either the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:372", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.246008258135072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, wait a minute. Hang on a minute. Repeat what you said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifteen was the one where they were venting the RCS after they entered the atmosphere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was either the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did do something on that, Grady.\n\nI don't remember.\n\nAt 302. We went up on the side at 302, just because it's tall and sitting up in the air, and I can't remember what the heck we did, but—\n\nWe might have done some venting to see it came back and had all the material.\n\nWe had a chute, or a partial chute, or something like that, and we sprayed it with oxidizer. I don't remember the outcome of it. I don't remember very much about it, because I wasn't intimately involved with it.\n\nI don't guess I was either, because I don't remember anything about it. I didn't work in 300 Area a lot in Apollo. I worked mostly in the 400 Area.\n\nYes, me, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any other sort of post-flight investigations that either of you did work on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00410:374", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.545847226191, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was either the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did do something on that, Grady.\n\nI don't remember.\n\nAt 302. We went up on the side at 302, just because it's tall and sitting up in the air, and I can't remember what the heck we did, but—\n\nWe might have done some venting to see it came back and had all the material.\n\nWe had a chute, or a partial chute, or something like that, and we sprayed it with oxidizer. I don't remember the outcome of it. I don't remember very much about it, because I wasn't intimately involved with it.\n\nI don't guess I was either, because I don't remember anything about it. I didn't work in 300 Area a lot in Apollo. I worked mostly in the 400 Area.\n\nYes, me, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any other sort of post-flight investigations that either of you did work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I told the one yesterday, I guess, having to do with the high-pressure temperature in the fuel line after Apollo 11 landed on the Moon.\n\nI remember doing that.\n\nThat was a pretty involved test program that we went through.\n\nI did get involved in a little bit of the PUGS program up in the 300 Area, Propellant Utilization Gauging System, on the service module tanks. That was the crummiest gauging system I ever as associated with. We finally flew without it. Al Williams was really involved in that. I helped him out some. What they were doing was sensing liquid in the tank, little sensors on this pipe that went down through the center of the tank, and as those little sensors got covered with liquid, they'd change state—sometimes. We never did successfully fix it. We finally flew without a PUGS system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Neither of you I don't think had said anything about either Skylab or the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project much in your interviews. Did you work much on either of those programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00335:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.4426439241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It picked up probably around GT-4. I think that's when it started. This is the first time I've told you, because I generally not—I've never said I did that. I'm doing it for this thing, though, because most—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just getting ready to ask you that, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know it, but I generally won't admit to it. I make everybody else—just to listen to where they think it came from. [Charles F.] Deiterich got it, though, for [Eugene F.] Kranz. One of Kranz's meetings, Deiterich told him where it came from. Have you all talked to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chuck Deiterich? Not yet, no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a neat guy. He kind of was a follow-on. You know, if you look at guys that started in Apollo, he was kind of a follow-on. He went all the way through to Shuttle and still had an active role in trajectories and kept up with it all. Yes, that's where that came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's good to get the story straight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00335:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.17610361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a neat guy. He kind of was a follow-on. You know, if you look at guys that started in Apollo, he was kind of a follow-on. He went all the way through to Shuttle and still had an active role in trajectories and kept up with it all. Yes, that's where that came from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's good to get the story straight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounds as a certain amount of technical arrogance in this whole discussion about the control center, but it was no doubt about it, really where all the responsibility was and who were the top guys. It was us. There's no doubt. Because look at how many people that didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That were in the Flight Dynamics area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly there are many stories surrounding the guys in the trench. Made up your own matchbooks, for instance."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00335:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.4178929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sounds as a certain amount of technical arrogance in this whole discussion about the control center, but it was no doubt about it, really where all the responsibility was and who were the top guys. It was us. There's no doubt. Because look at how many people that didn't make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That were in the Flight Dynamics area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly there are many stories surrounding the guys in the trench. Made up your own matchbooks, for instance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Bostick did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he gave us a sample of one of those yesterday."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00335:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 36.019881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That were in the Flight Dynamics area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly there are many stories surrounding the guys in the trench. Made up your own matchbooks, for instance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Bostick did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he gave us a sample of one of those yesterday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's neat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thought so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00335:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got here right after John Glenn's flight. That's when I went into the flight dynamics period. It took me off of—I was working in—I think I mentioned last time, I was flight systems division or something like that. I was an engineer in heat transfer and reentry, building facilities, like that. Then I went in Flight Control Division, and we moved here. So that would be '62, I guess, March, February, about this time of year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you'd commute from here to the Cape before they had the control center here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did that. We had Shepard's flight and all those right after that. We'd go to the Cape, and that's where we got immersed. We did that same thing up into Gemini IV, because we flew NS-1, Gemini I and Gemini III out of there. Some of that was done out of here. They had a backup system for III out of here. Then IV, we did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then did you work on the first two, the unmanned Gemini flights?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did all those. I did almost every one of them. Almost every one up until, I guess, Apollo 13. Had some position. Of course, we were bringing people in by Gemini. Bostick came in in Gemini. He was around for Mercury, but he wasn't on the console."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember anything in particular from those two Gemini flights that sticks out in your mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00152:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm part of the North Carolina Peace Corps Association, yeah. I am. It's a really good organization, it's very strong. Vibrant group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of young people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of young people now, yeah, young people. Who knows why they weren't coming before, but they sure are coming now to join this organization. To take charge of it, which is for us old timers, just a blessing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You see something you love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Encouraging. Yeah. Well, thank you for this interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00152:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of young people now, yeah, young people. Who knows why they weren't coming before, but they sure are coming now to join this organization. To take charge of it, which is for us old timers, just a blessing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You see something you love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Encouraging. Yeah. Well, thank you for this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll get this one going and."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00471:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.671955319513003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really nothing specific that I can think of. It was just a continuation of helping take care of things for Dr. Gilruth. I think that for things like that, probably a review of the daily log bit would tell you much more than I can remember. Some things, like the Russian shot-putters—of course, that occurred after the end of the daily logs, but the encounter with the TV newsman and Walter Cronkite's remarks and so on wouldn't have been in the logs anyhow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During our research we found that you kept a scrapbook for Dr. Gilruth of Russian progress in space. Is that accurate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that I did. Whenever I saw anything that I felt he might have missed, I made sure that it got mentioned to him, either by copy of the clippings and so on, but I don't recall keeping a scrapbook for him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have very much knowledge of what the Russians, the Soviets, were doing during Mercury and Gemini especially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, not anything more than what was in the papers, because, as I gathered, the U.S. was fairly open with its own press about what they knew about the Russians. They were not open about a lot of things that they were suspicious of, but I think that they were pretty open with the press about what they really knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You discussed moving from Virginia to Houston. What was the impact on NASA, making that separation?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00471:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 21.722230330000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stay in touch with him now. He doesn't know it, because he's suffering from Alzheimer's, but I stay in touch, at least a Christmas card and maybe one other exchange of notes with Mrs. Gilruth, and got one from him this Christmas. There's just no recollection of anything now. For a while he would remember spasmodically, but now, apparently, he's completely gone. But I felt very close to him, and I think he's really the best boss I've ever had, because I could be completely open with him about anything and felt he was being equally open with me. We got along very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's important. It seems that you were describing your interview with a media person. How much involvement did you have in public relations for NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depends on the point of view. From \"Shorty\" Powers' point of view and from his successor's point of view, I meddled in it too much, but we just had a little bit different way of looking at things, I guess. So we tried to leave most of it with the Public Affairs Office, because that was their job. But every office gets a little bit of meddling from the front office now and then. They just seemed to resent it more than anyone else did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How well do you think NASA portrayed itself to the American public?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure what it is that you're really asking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think NASA did a good job of presenting itself in public relations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00471:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.735300000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, because by that time almost all of the engineering and technical problems were being handled by the engineers who were actually doing the work. My position in the front office was more managerial and people contact than it was technical by that time. So I really can't think of any technical input that I had in either Gemini or Apollo. There again, in the daily logs you might discover something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did the Apollo 1 fire affect your job, affect you in your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gilruth wanted me to collect all the information on it, but then when he told Joe [Joseph F.] Shea about it, [Joe] insisted that—I believe it was Tom [J. Thomas] Markley in his office be the central point for collecting all the data, which suited me fine. I think Joe just wanted to be sure that there was someone he could trust doing it, and Tom Markley was a very trustworthy guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This year will mark the thirtieth anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the Moon. Do you remember where you were when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. [Laughter] I was just being busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career at NASA, what do you think was your greatest accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00471:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gilruth wanted me to collect all the information on it, but then when he told Joe [Joseph F.] Shea about it, [Joe] insisted that—I believe it was Tom [J. Thomas] Markley in his office be the central point for collecting all the data, which suited me fine. I think Joe just wanted to be sure that there was someone he could trust doing it, and Tom Markley was a very trustworthy guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This year will mark the thirtieth anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the Moon. Do you remember where you were when that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't. [Laughter] I was just being busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career at NASA, what do you think was your greatest accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Surviving. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's important."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 45.67300825193898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So don’t tell me about the need to keep these things in mind. It’s absurd that people don’t remember things like that. What the hell are they doing in the business? I’m an old man and it’s still all up there. I guess they’re all dead. That’s classical. That’s what happened in the Shuttle. It hadn’t been that long, had it? People forgot the decisions that were made, the reasons the decisions were made. The reasons why decisions are made are important because that determines how you’re going to use the machine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That may be the piece that’s missing; the reasons why those decisions were made. Not just what the decisions are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. You deserve to ask, “Why did they do that?” And there is an answer. We didn’t just pull it out of the air. We did that in excruciating detail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you mentioned SpaceX. I have to think you’ve been watching some of how that came about with their process to enter into the exploration business. Do you feel like they’re applying many of the lessons that NASA and that you learned as you were coming through those early days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope they are but I doubt it. But the technology is very superior to Mercury, it’s very superior to Apollo. Doing it today is a hell of a lot easier. It doesn’t require the detailed testing and design that NASA put into it in those early days, so it is easier to do. It has been done, so the test program doesn’t have to be the same. That’s what makes it less expensive. That’s what allows you to be able to do it. You can hire engineers that can read. So yes, it is a lot easier for SpaceX to build a Mercury capsule because that’s what it is, or an Apollo capsule. They haven’t built the manned one yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was my next question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 49.25317520490623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What they did this morning was fantastic. You don’t really know how fantastic that was, because it’s like the reentry of the Space Shuttle in that they had to design it with wide variations in environment to begin with. They didn’t know what the density was going to be, what altitude was going to be. That makes a big difference then on the aerodynamics that you’re going to have to use to slow the thing down, and how the parachute is going to open and on and on. So that means they had to expand the variables. To do it under those circumstances is pretty damn good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe one analysis person made the remark that it was somewhat reminiscent of Apollo. With the ascent engine and the parachutes and the whole episodes of having to figure out all those variables that if one didn’t work nothing was going to work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good analogy I thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. If you look at Apollo 11, if you had tried to do that automatically on Apollo 11, the landing on the Moon, I think you’d have waved off. The system would have waved you off. But we had some people on the ground saying it was still working okay. We had guys in the spacecraft that said it was still going where they wanted to go. That allowed you to do it. But that was part of the system too, wasn’t it? Because that’s what that damn control center over there was for. We had 5 million words of computer capability, which is peanuts today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The comment you made a while ago about SpaceX, that the technology is easier. But I guess the decision making process is the same."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 54.725750227673586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good analogy I thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. If you look at Apollo 11, if you had tried to do that automatically on Apollo 11, the landing on the Moon, I think you’d have waved off. The system would have waved you off. But we had some people on the ground saying it was still working okay. We had guys in the spacecraft that said it was still going where they wanted to go. That allowed you to do it. But that was part of the system too, wasn’t it? Because that’s what that damn control center over there was for. We had 5 million words of computer capability, which is peanuts today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The comment you made a while ago about SpaceX, that the technology is easier. But I guess the decision making process is the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They must have some pretty damn good engineers. That’s all I can say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think that’s the history of space exploration, is having the engineering force."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.61949432658677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I went to work for Rockwell. They paid me. Rockwell immediately paid me $200,000 a year as a consultant. I was worth every damn penny of it when I first went to work for them. I later quit because I wasn’t. I worked for them, I consulted about 10 years for them, and I said I’m not worth the money they’re paying me, so I just quit. Chairman of the board called me and said, “We got to have you.” I said, “No, sir, I’m not worth the money you’re paying me, I’m through.” But at that point I’m now on four, five boards where I’m making a lot of money, so it didn’t matter.\\n\\n I was on the board of a hospital company. I was on the board of the Park Plaza Hospital, board of governors. These people saw me there, and they asked me to be on their board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work any more with Max Faget after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I was on his board too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Max was a great guy. A very interesting person. After he’d been the president for a while he asked me to go on the board. He said, “When you were the Director of the Center, I thought you were doing a terrible job.” He said, “I’ve since learned how good you were.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always a different perception when you’re sitting in that “The buck stops here” chair, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.480857193317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Max was a great guy. A very interesting person. After he’d been the president for a while he asked me to go on the board. He said, “When you were the Director of the Center, I thought you were doing a terrible job.” He said, “I’ve since learned how good you were.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s always a different perception when you’re sitting in that “The buck stops here” chair, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like Mr. [Harry S.] Truman says. You can’t stand the heat, better get out of the kitchen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I’m just reminiscing here. I enjoyed every damn minute of it. I wake up in the night sometimes thinking about all the great people I worked for and with, the things we were able to do together and how we did them. How we got them done. Absolutely phenomenal. Without somebody like Gilruth and George [M.] Low it would have been impossible for me to do what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel like their characteristics were that allowed you to be able to do what you did? What kind of leadership attributes did they have?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.089841325907777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like Mr. [Harry S.] Truman says. You can’t stand the heat, better get out of the kitchen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I’m just reminiscing here. I enjoyed every damn minute of it. I wake up in the night sometimes thinking about all the great people I worked for and with, the things we were able to do together and how we did them. How we got them done. Absolutely phenomenal. Without somebody like Gilruth and George [M.] Low it would have been impossible for me to do what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel like their characteristics were that allowed you to be able to do what you did? What kind of leadership attributes did they have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve tried to think about that. My definition of leadership is the number one requirement is you have to be willing to accept the responsibility for the organization of which you are a part and the people in it. If you aren’t willing to do that you can’t be a leader. That’s a hell of a responsibility if you do it right and do it well. That’s where it starts. So I say I was willing to do that. But number two, I was willing to let somebody else do it. I always believed in giving people responsibility for doing the job, and letting them do it without interference. You’d find that they weren’t doing it like you wanted it done half the time. But it was being done, and it got done, and in the end might have been better than what I was thinking about doing. So I think that’s the two characteristics of leadership that you have to have. That’s hard to do.\\n\\n My mother used to say—I think it was my mother—she used to give me a lot of cliches. “You don’t learn anything while you’re talking.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one. I like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.988712584341975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I’m just reminiscing here. I enjoyed every damn minute of it. I wake up in the night sometimes thinking about all the great people I worked for and with, the things we were able to do together and how we did them. How we got them done. Absolutely phenomenal. Without somebody like Gilruth and George [M.] Low it would have been impossible for me to do what I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel like their characteristics were that allowed you to be able to do what you did? What kind of leadership attributes did they have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve tried to think about that. My definition of leadership is the number one requirement is you have to be willing to accept the responsibility for the organization of which you are a part and the people in it. If you aren’t willing to do that you can’t be a leader. That’s a hell of a responsibility if you do it right and do it well. That’s where it starts. So I say I was willing to do that. But number two, I was willing to let somebody else do it. I always believed in giving people responsibility for doing the job, and letting them do it without interference. You’d find that they weren’t doing it like you wanted it done half the time. But it was being done, and it got done, and in the end might have been better than what I was thinking about doing. So I think that’s the two characteristics of leadership that you have to have. That’s hard to do.\\n\\n My mother used to say—I think it was my mother—she used to give me a lot of cliches. “You don’t learn anything while you’re talking.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one. I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I love that. You don’t learn anything while you’re talking. Second thing she said was “You put everybody’s troubles in the barrel, you always choose your own.” Part of my philosophy of life I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember you sharing that one before. I’ve used it often. People sit and think about what a horrible day they have, but if you think about somebody else’s, yours almost always seems better."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.20968064926886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve tried to think about that. My definition of leadership is the number one requirement is you have to be willing to accept the responsibility for the organization of which you are a part and the people in it. If you aren’t willing to do that you can’t be a leader. That’s a hell of a responsibility if you do it right and do it well. That’s where it starts. So I say I was willing to do that. But number two, I was willing to let somebody else do it. I always believed in giving people responsibility for doing the job, and letting them do it without interference. You’d find that they weren’t doing it like you wanted it done half the time. But it was being done, and it got done, and in the end might have been better than what I was thinking about doing. So I think that’s the two characteristics of leadership that you have to have. That’s hard to do.\\n\\n My mother used to say—I think it was my mother—she used to give me a lot of cliches. “You don’t learn anything while you’re talking.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a good one. I like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I love that. You don’t learn anything while you’re talking. Second thing she said was “You put everybody’s troubles in the barrel, you always choose your own.” Part of my philosophy of life I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember you sharing that one before. I’ve used it often. People sit and think about what a horrible day they have, but if you think about somebody else’s, yours almost always seems better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Go look at somebody else’s problems. They’re big relatively speaking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you were the antithesis of Max Faget. Can you explain that? I’m curious. Can you expand on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 28.334740045163944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wanted the B-2. He was chief engineer and program manager on the B-2 and did a hell of a job. So he made out all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you did him a favor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe I did. But he was a damn good man as a chief engineer. He was one of the best I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. But he really screwed us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that hurt."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Caused me a lot of pain. Caused NASA a lot of pain. Congress really tore us up not just for that but the whole damn thing. NASA had been in there two weeks before we resubmitted this thing and said, “We don’t need any more money,” because that’s what the OMB [Office of Management and Budget] had told us, you got to say that. They wanted to give us more money as a matter of fact, the committees did, and NASA said, “No, we don’t need any more money.” Then two weeks later we told them we not only wanted more money, we want $700 million right now, and we want $2 billion added to our budget next year. Because we knew the president was going to say, “You could have it.” So they got their pound of flesh and quart of blood from NASA and we got our money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dr. Kraft, I certainly don’t want to take up your whole day. But I wonder, since you’re reflecting a little bit this morning, you made a comment earlier that if you don’t mind taking a few minutes and reflecting on it, you said that spaceflight is difficult. So the other part of that question is but why should we do it, why should we keep pursuing ways to explore space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.012108664268565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. When President Kennedy said, “We’re going to the Moon,” I was a flight director at Cape Canaveral. I hadn’t launched John [H.] Glenn yet. He says, “You’re going to go land on the Moon.” I shook my head. Gilruth had called me and said, “You better listen to the radio today.” Or the television. Whatever it was. “Man is going to make an important announcement.” He said that. I’m just shaking my head. Bits around me and all these things out at Cape Canaveral and countdowns and rockets on the pad. Guidance system to go this way instead of that way. The last Atlas we had launched went that way instead of that way. The last one blew up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you’re going to the Moon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now somebody says, “You’re going to go land on the Moon.” That’s pretty damn good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "President Kennedy was in one of those buildings over there on Telephone Road [Houston, Texas, during his visit in September, 1962], and I had to tell him how we were going to go to the Moon. I didn’t have the slightest damn idea how we were going to go to the Moon. I had to put a bunch of charts in front of me. Telling President Kennedy this is how we’re going to do it. The senator who was with him went to sleep.\\n\\n He woke up with a start. He said, “Young man, you believe all this shit you’re telling me? How do you?” I almost fell out of my chair and so did the president. Because he was right. I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about. President Kennedy, I had never seen anybody laugh so much in my life, and I was laughing right with him, because he probably knew I didn’t know what I was talking about either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a plan, that’s what mattered."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.23567629363174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now somebody says, “You’re going to go land on the Moon.” That’s pretty damn good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "President Kennedy was in one of those buildings over there on Telephone Road [Houston, Texas, during his visit in September, 1962], and I had to tell him how we were going to go to the Moon. I didn’t have the slightest damn idea how we were going to go to the Moon. I had to put a bunch of charts in front of me. Telling President Kennedy this is how we’re going to do it. The senator who was with him went to sleep.\\n\\n He woke up with a start. He said, “Young man, you believe all this shit you’re telling me? How do you?” I almost fell out of my chair and so did the president. Because he was right. I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about. President Kennedy, I had never seen anybody laugh so much in my life, and I was laughing right with him, because he probably knew I didn’t know what I was talking about either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had a plan, that’s what mattered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I had a plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.105773202014491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right, I had a plan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a schedule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a schedule and I had a check to do it with. I had the country backing me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That helps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the Congress backing me. I had the greatest people in the world working for me, and I was working for the greatest people ahead of me. So that’s a pretty good formula."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is. It’s a good memory. A good set of accomplishments."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.2299545831649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On and on. On and on. On and on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All those little bitty pieces came together, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I remember we built those damn hydraulic actuators. They had redundancy in the wrong place. They had the O-ring seals. They called them Greene Tweed seals. Had a certain shape and you couldn’t put them in backwards. Except they did. The first time we hooked that thing up it blew up. Not literally, but the damn hydraulic fluid going everywhere. Just a lousy damn design. We went to Moog, [Incorporated] over in Buffalo [New York]. “Build us an actuator with redundant seals on it.” It cost us 50 million bucks. But we had a new actuator and it worked. Just learned all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and built upon it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, over and over and over again. First time we did metals. Why do you have to have these tags? You have a piece of metal, well, we had to have a piece of metal over here that we stored with a tag on it. This came out of that lot and it cost a lot of money. But when that damn thing failed because of some problem, we had this piece over here that we could run a test on. That costs you money but by God it makes it work in the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be interesting how much money, if you could figure how much money was saved by doing those types of testing and put those processes in place in the long run. Or lives you saved because of making sure those tests were done."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.971276609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hard to explain that to a congressman spending money. If they go see it then a lot of them did. That’s what tiger teams was capable of doing. We don’t have any more tiger teams."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No we don’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got out of you what I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think we got more out of you. So we appreciate that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You probably did but I want to make sure that somewhere there was recorded the fact that we didn’t just haphazardly decide not to have an escape system on the Space Shuttle. There was justification for it and good engineering judgment for it. It worked pretty damn well. If you used it properly. If the red light comes on in your car and says stop the engine, it ain’t kidding. If you don’t stop the engine, you’ll have to buy a new engine. You now know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We definitely do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.85697401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I got out of you what I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I think we got more out of you. So we appreciate that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You probably did but I want to make sure that somewhere there was recorded the fact that we didn’t just haphazardly decide not to have an escape system on the Space Shuttle. There was justification for it and good engineering judgment for it. It worked pretty damn well. If you used it properly. If the red light comes on in your car and says stop the engine, it ain’t kidding. If you don’t stop the engine, you’ll have to buy a new engine. You now know that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We definitely do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you don’t do it, I can’t make you do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Circumstances will happen, won’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We certainly had a lot of things happen that we got awful lucky about. When Apollo 13 blew up, it could have blown the whole end off of the damn thing and damaged the heat shield. Then it would have been Katie bar the door. That would have been the end of it. We just got lucky there. Maybe because we were so diligent about other things that we made the luck. Like the golfers say, it’s amazing how your luck improves when you practice. It’s true. I suspect that happened to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got a little more knowledgeable to be able to apply your luck a little easier, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On the Challenger accident, we weren’t lucky. On the Columbia accident we weren’t lucky. But we had indicators, but we ignored them. Weren’t smart enough to figure that out. The people at the time were not smart enough to figure that out. That’s what happens. Probably happened to Amelia Earhart, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Happened to Wiley Post over Alaska back when I was a kid. Or it happened to [Charles A.] Lindbergh going across the ocean. He got lucky as hell. Having all these hallucinations, going to sleep, etc. Persevered I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The golfer you were telling me about yesterday. He wasn’t so lucky, was he?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On the Challenger accident, we weren’t lucky. On the Columbia accident we weren’t lucky. But we had indicators, but we ignored them. Weren’t smart enough to figure that out. The people at the time were not smart enough to figure that out. That’s what happens. Probably happened to Amelia Earhart, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Might have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Happened to Wiley Post over Alaska back when I was a kid. Or it happened to [Charles A.] Lindbergh going across the ocean. He got lucky as hell. Having all these hallucinations, going to sleep, etc. Persevered I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The golfer you were telling me about yesterday. He wasn’t so lucky, was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Played 71 beautiful holes and then screwed up on the 18th and lost. He’s done that twice now in the last couple months. Led the damn tournament. This one he led for 71 holes and lost. That’s tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a hard day getting up today, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00321:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Happened to Wiley Post over Alaska back when I was a kid. Or it happened to [Charles A.] Lindbergh going across the ocean. He got lucky as hell. Having all these hallucinations, going to sleep, etc. Persevered I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The golfer you were telling me about yesterday. He wasn’t so lucky, was he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Played 71 beautiful holes and then screwed up on the 18th and lost. He’s done that twice now in the last couple months. Led the damn tournament. This one he led for 71 holes and lost. That’s tough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a hard day getting up today, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I imagine it was for him. He said his son was crying. I think that really got to him. He’s a hell of a nice guy too, [Jim] Furyk is. Well, get me out of here. You’ve had enough of me for the day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you probably need a break. We worked you hard today. So we appreciate you coming in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.291898251802806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Well, I grew up in Missouri, a small town in Missouri, Joplin, Missouri, and then spent high school in Texas, in West Texas, in a little town called San Angelo, and then went to college and applied to Peace Corps in my senior year of college and joined the Peace Corps right after I graduated. So that's kind of how I got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about the Peace Corps, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, which was the seventies, the advertisements were everywhere. Television, newspaper, magazine, it was widely advertised. And the one thing that sticks out in my mind is that there was a guy one year ahead of me who joined the Peace Corps. I happened to know, I didn't know him well, but I knew who he was. So between all the advertisements and this other guy's going, I said, I started to think, you know, maybe that's something I could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your motivation for going this route?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't have any worries about the draft because I had a very high draft number and it was never going to be reached. So that was not an issue. But I came to the end of college and didn't know really what I wanted to do. And I'd always found this idea of going into the Peace Corps fascinating. So I thought, you know, this could be a great time to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a specific country or theme that you wanted to pursue in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.76877583533645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at that time, which was the seventies, the advertisements were everywhere. Television, newspaper, magazine, it was widely advertised. And the one thing that sticks out in my mind is that there was a guy one year ahead of me who joined the Peace Corps. I happened to know, I didn't know him well, but I knew who he was. So between all the advertisements and this other guy's going, I said, I started to think, you know, maybe that's something I could do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was your motivation for going this route?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't have any worries about the draft because I had a very high draft number and it was never going to be reached. So that was not an issue. But I came to the end of college and didn't know really what I wanted to do. And I'd always found this idea of going into the Peace Corps fascinating. So I thought, you know, this could be a great time to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have a specific country or theme that you wanted to pursue in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, ironically, my choice was Latin America. So I didn't have any particular activity that I wanted to do. But I, uh, I put down Latin America on my application, and of course, it came back India and agriculture. Well, the agriculture I was okay with because I'd worked a little bit on farms in the summer and things like that. And India I was okay with. Nothing wrong with India. So I said, okay, let's try it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. And so you had some training in agriculture. Peace Corps presumably took you farther than that. Would you like to talk about training, where you trained, and the subjects that you were trained in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.386946860747525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In India, we were trained in the south in Tansur district at an agricultural research station. And there they actually had facilities for training agricultural extension workers. So it was really pretty ideal for us to be there. And we studied all kinds of different varieties of rice. And there we started our language training and we started our, had more intense cultural training and we worked actually in India at that time. So we got to meet Indians and get to know a few of them in their homes and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you talk a little about how the Peace Corps managed training? Did you think they did a pretty good job? And I guess the three areas would be language, technical, and cross cultural. Um, I can't think of any other one. How did, how did they do in terms of getting, getting you ready for your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did all right. There was an awful lot for them to do. And I felt when the whole thing was over that I really didn't know enough. But they only had the summer really to teach us. And same thing for language. And cultural training, well, I guess we probably learned more useful cultural things from Mike Thorburn than anything else. He kind of gave us a clue as to what it's like to be a Peace Corps volunteer and what do you have to do in order to meet the people and integrate a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mike was our cross-cultural coordinator and was a volunteer, was a returned volunteer, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Returned volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he served in Tamil Nadu or Kerala?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.207718734163917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did all right. There was an awful lot for them to do. And I felt when the whole thing was over that I really didn't know enough. But they only had the summer really to teach us. And same thing for language. And cultural training, well, I guess we probably learned more useful cultural things from Mike Thorburn than anything else. He kind of gave us a clue as to what it's like to be a Peace Corps volunteer and what do you have to do in order to meet the people and integrate a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mike was our cross-cultural coordinator and was a volunteer, was a returned volunteer, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Returned volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he served in Tamil Nadu or Kerala?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He served in, uh, my understanding was that he served in Karnataka, which is up near Bangalore, in the poultry project up there. So I thought, in short, I think, I thought they did the best they could given the given the time available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, one of the things I remember about that period was that we had a psychiatrist from Peace Corps on hand. I can't remember her name now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.787307079214713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He served in, uh, my understanding was that he served in Karnataka, which is up near Bangalore, in the poultry project up there. So I thought, in short, I think, I thought they did the best they could given the given the time available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, one of the things I remember about that period was that we had a psychiatrist from Peace Corps on hand. I can't remember her name now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Helen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helen Ash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Tell me about what you think her role was. I'm interested in that aspect."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.652563421349681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Helen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helen Ash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Tell me about what you think her role was. I'm interested in that aspect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think her role was, was dual. One was to sort of prepare us as best she could. And the other one was to spot those of us she felt couldn't really hack it as volunteers in the village. And so it was being a dual role. Those of us who are a little uneasy probably, you know, always were careful to present a good side to Helen. And then she, uh, did probably saw through us, but we were careful never to sort of go off the deep end with Helen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To your knowledge, did she, uh, actively discourage anyone, any of our group from, from pursuing, from continuing beyond training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.6139593570552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Helen Ash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Tell me about what you think her role was. I'm interested in that aspect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think her role was, was dual. One was to sort of prepare us as best she could. And the other one was to spot those of us she felt couldn't really hack it as volunteers in the village. And so it was being a dual role. Those of us who are a little uneasy probably, you know, always were careful to present a good side to Helen. And then she, uh, did probably saw through us, but we were careful never to sort of go off the deep end with Helen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To your knowledge, did she, uh, actively discourage anyone, any of our group from, from pursuing, from continuing beyond training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. I thought there were one or two that she kind of questioned, let me put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fair enough. Let me take a step back, please, because one of the things I wanted to ask you, and partly because I'm vague on it, is talking about our arrival in India. We came out of, uh, we came out of the Philippines via Hong Kong, as I recall, where we were caught in a typhoon."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.682177063394667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think her role was, was dual. One was to sort of prepare us as best she could. And the other one was to spot those of us she felt couldn't really hack it as volunteers in the village. And so it was being a dual role. Those of us who are a little uneasy probably, you know, always were careful to present a good side to Helen. And then she, uh, did probably saw through us, but we were careful never to sort of go off the deep end with Helen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To your knowledge, did she, uh, actively discourage anyone, any of our group from, from pursuing, from continuing beyond training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. I thought there were one or two that she kind of questioned, let me put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fair enough. Let me take a step back, please, because one of the things I wanted to ask you, and partly because I'm vague on it, is talking about our arrival in India. We came out of, uh, we came out of the Philippines via Hong Kong, as I recall, where we were caught in a typhoon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then we arrived in Delhi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.869085625994074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall. I thought there were one or two that she kind of questioned, let me put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fair enough. Let me take a step back, please, because one of the things I wanted to ask you, and partly because I'm vague on it, is talking about our arrival in India. We came out of, uh, we came out of the Philippines via Hong Kong, as I recall, where we were caught in a typhoon."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then we arrived in Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your recollections of Delhi and the trip down to the ag research station in Tamil Nadu."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.965650695548971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then we arrived in Delhi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your recollections of Delhi and the trip down to the ag research station in Tamil Nadu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a very vivid, what I think is a very vivid recollection of that, those day or two in Delhi. And in retrospect, my feeling is, um, it wasn't kind of fair to us to give us such a raw welcome. We were taken to a large home which was sort of converted into a hotel. I think it was an old, probably an old British home or something like that. Anyway, and dinner was served. I don't know that anybody else remembers this, but dinner was served, as I recall, at a long table or maybe two tables. And then behind us stood all these bearers in uniform, which you can still see now in hotels in India, in fancy sorts of hotels in India. But I remember us all thinking, well, is this what India is like?\n\nAnd the answer was, which we found out before too long, no, this is not what India's going to be like for us anyway, and certain parts of India are still like that. But I felt like, and there was a swimming pool outside in the back. It was, we were told not to drink water, but. And we got, and what was helpful was we did get some free time to go around Delhi and see parts of Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after did we go to the embassy at all? Did we, were we greeted by anyone other than the Peace Corps office that you recall, or were we greeted by the Indian government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.184056328387745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your recollections of Delhi and the trip down to the ag research station in Tamil Nadu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a very vivid, what I think is a very vivid recollection of that, those day or two in Delhi. And in retrospect, my feeling is, um, it wasn't kind of fair to us to give us such a raw welcome. We were taken to a large home which was sort of converted into a hotel. I think it was an old, probably an old British home or something like that. Anyway, and dinner was served. I don't know that anybody else remembers this, but dinner was served, as I recall, at a long table or maybe two tables. And then behind us stood all these bearers in uniform, which you can still see now in hotels in India, in fancy sorts of hotels in India. But I remember us all thinking, well, is this what India is like?\n\nAnd the answer was, which we found out before too long, no, this is not what India's going to be like for us anyway, and certain parts of India are still like that. But I felt like, and there was a swimming pool outside in the back. It was, we were told not to drink water, but. And we got, and what was helpful was we did get some free time to go around Delhi and see parts of Delhi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after did we go to the embassy at all? Did we, were we greeted by anyone other than the Peace Corps office that you recall, or were we greeted by the Indian government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have had a greeting or two, but it just didn't stick in my mind who probably would take him to the embassy or something like that. I don't recall much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after two days in Delhi, we took the plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.59760040541697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have had a greeting or two, but it just didn't stick in my mind who probably would take him to the embassy or something like that. I don't recall much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then after two days in Delhi, we took the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Madras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to Madras and stayed in the Woodlands Hotel. And it seemed we kept hitting woodlands all the way down. So I guess we just by luck. Anyway, stayed there for a day or two and, um, and from there take a trip, took a bus actually down to Thanjavur District. And that bus ride sticks in my mind because we were going through village after village after village and narrow streets with, you know, sharp turns. And that was our introduction to the India we were to know later on. A lot of dust and a lot of heat and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dust and heat."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.775111561574409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Madras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to Madras and stayed in the Woodlands Hotel. And it seemed we kept hitting woodlands all the way down. So I guess we just by luck. Anyway, stayed there for a day or two and, um, and from there take a trip, took a bus actually down to Thanjavur District. And that bus ride sticks in my mind because we were going through village after village after village and narrow streets with, you know, sharp turns. And that was our introduction to the India we were to know later on. A lot of dust and a lot of heat and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dust and heat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dust and heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.537174767375815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dust and heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people blowing their horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we got down to our training site and we're there for two months. In that time, we went out and visited areas to practice our, our Tamil, which was the language of the region. Would you like to talk about our Tamil training and your first attempts to speak it and how it went over the long term?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.15241640819535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot of horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people blowing their horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we got down to our training site and we're there for two months. In that time, we went out and visited areas to practice our, our Tamil, which was the language of the region. Would you like to talk about our Tamil training and your first attempts to speak it and how it went over the long term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Tamil training was absolutely essential, and yet I don't think very many of us picked up enough Tamil in training to, to carry us through. We picked up our Tamil, we got enough to get started. But then we picked up our Tamil as we went through our village experiences and some of us had tutors and things like that in the village, and that helped. But it was a long process to really pick up enough Tamil to communicate well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your training on a regular basis once you got to the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.83601823132817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people blowing their horns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we got down to our training site and we're there for two months. In that time, we went out and visited areas to practice our, our Tamil, which was the language of the region. Would you like to talk about our Tamil training and your first attempts to speak it and how it went over the long term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Tamil training was absolutely essential, and yet I don't think very many of us picked up enough Tamil in training to, to carry us through. We picked up our Tamil, we got enough to get started. But then we picked up our Tamil as we went through our village experiences and some of us had tutors and things like that in the village, and that helped. But it was a long process to really pick up enough Tamil to communicate well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your training on a regular basis once you got to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a tutor who came twice a week, but, not twice a week. Once a week. But, but unfortunately, his method of training was the Indian method of training, which is rote. Say it over and over and over again. And if I didn't understand what he was saying, he would just repeat it back to me. And I found it very hard to absorb much doing that. And I wasn't getting the same sort of, uh, in the village. In training, for example, we took a pretend visit to the market and we would buy tomatoes and we would use some of our phrases and sort of get them into context. In my training in the village, there was no context whatsoever. It was just repeat, repeat, repeat. And I was somehow supposed to absorb that and know what to say. So I have to say that after three or four months, I terminated the tutoring and just proceeded on my own. And I probably learned more training, more Tamil from the people I worked with than anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.706686923697966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Tamil training was absolutely essential, and yet I don't think very many of us picked up enough Tamil in training to, to carry us through. We picked up our Tamil, we got enough to get started. But then we picked up our Tamil as we went through our village experiences and some of us had tutors and things like that in the village, and that helped. But it was a long process to really pick up enough Tamil to communicate well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue your training on a regular basis once you got to the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a tutor who came twice a week, but, not twice a week. Once a week. But, but unfortunately, his method of training was the Indian method of training, which is rote. Say it over and over and over again. And if I didn't understand what he was saying, he would just repeat it back to me. And I found it very hard to absorb much doing that. And I wasn't getting the same sort of, uh, in the village. In training, for example, we took a pretend visit to the market and we would buy tomatoes and we would use some of our phrases and sort of get them into context. In my training in the village, there was no context whatsoever. It was just repeat, repeat, repeat. And I was somehow supposed to absorb that and know what to say. So I have to say that after three or four months, I terminated the tutoring and just proceeded on my own. And I probably learned more training, more Tamil from the people I worked with than anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Village?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me first about your first arrival in the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.78520769299774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a tutor who came twice a week, but, not twice a week. Once a week. But, but unfortunately, his method of training was the Indian method of training, which is rote. Say it over and over and over again. And if I didn't understand what he was saying, he would just repeat it back to me. And I found it very hard to absorb much doing that. And I wasn't getting the same sort of, uh, in the village. In training, for example, we took a pretend visit to the market and we would buy tomatoes and we would use some of our phrases and sort of get them into context. In my training in the village, there was no context whatsoever. It was just repeat, repeat, repeat. And I was somehow supposed to absorb that and know what to say. So I have to say that after three or four months, I terminated the tutoring and just proceeded on my own. And I probably learned more training, more Tamil from the people I worked with than anything else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about your village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Village?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me first about your first arrival in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, my first arrival. Well, total confusion and bewilderment. I was very pleased with the house. The house itself was more than adequate. It was a bedroom and a living room and a kitchen and an upstairs sort of veranda thing. But I had no idea how to live there. Where do you get drinking water? Where do you get groceries to cook with? And how do you take a bath? And of course, the well was dry, not dry, but need to be primed. And so I couldn't get water out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that suggests Peace Corps didn't really give you much introduction, did they just bring you to the village and drop you basically? Here's your house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.87245299221971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Village?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell me first about your first arrival in the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, my first arrival. Well, total confusion and bewilderment. I was very pleased with the house. The house itself was more than adequate. It was a bedroom and a living room and a kitchen and an upstairs sort of veranda thing. But I had no idea how to live there. Where do you get drinking water? Where do you get groceries to cook with? And how do you take a bath? And of course, the well was dry, not dry, but need to be primed. And so I couldn't get water out of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that suggests Peace Corps didn't really give you much introduction, did they just bring you to the village and drop you basically? Here's your house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. They felt like, they felt that they had dropped me, dropped off my furniture and, uh, and put me in a good place. And that was good enough. And so it was pretty much catch as catch can. And I have a very vivid memory of all the children who came in to see what was going on. Very few adults, maybe one or two adults, actually poked their head in. But I wanted to be very friendly, so I didn't chase anybody off or anything. But how much talking could I do with the kids? I didn't know enough Tamil to understand most of what they were saying.\n\nAnd I had a special complication because there was a volunteer who had been there from the previous group who had stayed a year and had spoiled all the kids rotten. And so when I got there, they were all looking for handouts and I didn't have anything to hand out, so uh, and I thought it was a bad idea anyway. So after a few days they kind of figured out they weren't getting anything from me and they kind of got angry. It took a while for everything to sort of settle down and to an equilibrium after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of our fellow volunteers were a little freaked out in those first few days by all the people and the constant staring. Did that, did that bother you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.279154080505576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The name of my village was so complicated sometimes even the bus drivers didn't know and the bus went through it every day. So the name of it was Kovil Devarayan Pettai. And Kovil stands for temple. Devarayan Pettai probably was the initial name of the village. Oh, Pettai means small. So Devarayan Pettai means small place. Small village. So, um. The history of it was that when everything was Hindu, this was probably a lower caste segment of the village. Another caste, another section, which is probably the Agraharam and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Agraharam was the Brahmin, traditional Brahmin part of the village, correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. And, uh, and it was usually separate from the lower caste or the untouchables. And so when the Muslims had come in to South India, the upper caste people converted to Muslim, to Islam. And so that left the village half Hindu and half Muslim. Ironically, the temple, which would naturally have been located in the bristol, in the, in the Brahmin section of town, was then located in the, at the edge of the Muslim section of town. So it kind of fell into disuse and I, in fact, didn't even know it was there for probably a year. And finally I found it and went over there and explored a little bit. But anyway, so there's a village, it's on the main lot and on the main road between Thanjavur and Kumbakonam, each of them about ten, 15 miles in one direction or the other. And, uh, let's see. Did that cover what you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And what was the approximate population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't large. The section I was in was maybe, I'm going to guess three or 400 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it on the river?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.643504533895083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. And, uh, and it was usually separate from the lower caste or the untouchables. And so when the Muslims had come in to South India, the upper caste people converted to Muslim, to Islam. And so that left the village half Hindu and half Muslim. Ironically, the temple, which would naturally have been located in the bristol, in the, in the Brahmin section of town, was then located in the, at the edge of the Muslim section of town. So it kind of fell into disuse and I, in fact, didn't even know it was there for probably a year. And finally I found it and went over there and explored a little bit. But anyway, so there's a village, it's on the main lot and on the main road between Thanjavur and Kumbakonam, each of them about ten, 15 miles in one direction or the other. And, uh, let's see. Did that cover what you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And what was the approximate population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't large. The section I was in was maybe, I'm going to guess three or 400 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it on the river?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, it was not too far from the river. It wasn't actually on the river. Probably if you go back about 100 yards or so, you would get one of the tributaries of the, of the river. The river by that time was in the delta, and it had, it was starting to split into tributaries and to reach the sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you say you were 15 miles from Thanjavur and 15 miles from Kumbakonam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.159449482105648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't large. The section I was in was maybe, I'm going to guess three or 400 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it on the river?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, it was not too far from the river. It wasn't actually on the river. Probably if you go back about 100 yards or so, you would get one of the tributaries of the, of the river. The river by that time was in the delta, and it had, it was starting to split into tributaries and to reach the sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you say you were 15 miles from Thanjavur and 15 miles from Kumbakonam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get into those larger towns fairly often or were you usually in the village all the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.621610535672943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, it was not too far from the river. It wasn't actually on the river. Probably if you go back about 100 yards or so, you would get one of the tributaries of the, of the river. The river by that time was in the delta, and it had, it was starting to split into tributaries and to reach the sea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you say you were 15 miles from Thanjavur and 15 miles from Kumbakonam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get into those larger towns fairly often or were you usually in the village all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly frequently into both those places. Thanjavur we had the district headquarters, so we had to go in there sometimes to meet various people. And Kumbakonam I did my initial shopping to fill the house, to furnish the house, and I ran through my 1,000 rupee house furnishing amount very quickly, and I found out that I just had to go and live with what I had. So that was hard, but I got to know Kumbakonam a little bit and Thanjavur pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had described your house as fairly almost luxurious for the village, I would say."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.24623392852549, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get into those larger towns fairly often or were you usually in the village all the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly frequently into both those places. Thanjavur we had the district headquarters, so we had to go in there sometimes to meet various people. And Kumbakonam I did my initial shopping to fill the house, to furnish the house, and I ran through my 1,000 rupee house furnishing amount very quickly, and I found out that I just had to go and live with what I had. So that was hard, but I got to know Kumbakonam a little bit and Thanjavur pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had described your house as fairly almost luxurious for the village, I would say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's be practical. Did you have running water and did you have a toilet inside the house? What did you do for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.05137103169499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did fairly frequently into both those places. Thanjavur we had the district headquarters, so we had to go in there sometimes to meet various people. And Kumbakonam I did my initial shopping to fill the house, to furnish the house, and I ran through my 1,000 rupee house furnishing amount very quickly, and I found out that I just had to go and live with what I had. So that was hard, but I got to know Kumbakonam a little bit and Thanjavur pretty well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had described your house as fairly almost luxurious for the village, I would say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's be practical. Did you have running water and did you have a toilet inside the house? What did you do for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, that was a there was a, um, an outhouse in the back yard. That was my toilet. And then there was a pump right outside the back door. Unfortunately, if I ever left the house for a few days, the pump would go dry and I'd have to have some water to prime it again. So, um, but it was available for bathing and that sort of thing. And then I'd have to boil the water if I wanted to drink it or cook with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do about eating? How did you get your meals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.612634479661102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's be practical. Did you have running water and did you have a toilet inside the house? What did you do for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, that was a there was a, um, an outhouse in the back yard. That was my toilet. And then there was a pump right outside the back door. Unfortunately, if I ever left the house for a few days, the pump would go dry and I'd have to have some water to prime it again. So, um, but it was available for bathing and that sort of thing. And then I'd have to boil the water if I wanted to drink it or cook with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do about eating? How did you get your meals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very good question. I cooked for myself or ate at local restaurants, there were a lot of little eateries around, for a week or so. And then it turned out there was another volunteer who, uh, whose family knew of a young man who could cook for me. So he came to me. He came to me and started cooking. And he knew the area and he knew what to buy. And I had my pots and pans and things that I had. So he was in business right away. An interesting story there because I thought it was totally unprepared to deal with the cook, and I think I probably would have been better off if I had a meeting with a family or had a family supply the food or whatever but.\n\nI found that I was running out of money at the end of the month and I figured out finally that a lot of my money was disappearing on his shopping trips and he was writing his own receipts when he would come back to me. So that, we lasted a couple of months, maybe three or four months. And then I decided that either I was going to, uh, be broke for the rest of my stay in India or I was going to have to let him go. So the problem wasn't his pay. The problem was the fact that he was siphoning the money off for something else. So I let him go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.879796493920283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a problem with the health. I think pretty much everybody did to a certain extent. We just did not realize, I think, to the extent to which we had to really be super careful about what we ate and what we drank, because about once a month I'd get sick and I'd be sick for a couple of days. And then, uh, and pretty much all the time I would have a stomachache and my stomach would rumble and get cramps. And one of the nicest things about coming back to the United States after it was all over was that went away. I still remember how nice it felt not to be sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. You mentioned that there had been another volunteer in your village and you also mentioned that there was another volunteer who had recommended your cook to you. Tell me, how close were you to other volunteers and how often did you see them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was, uh, I was closer to two volunteers who were from the previous group. So they, they had been there a year already by the time we got there. I was closer to them than, physically, than I was to our own members. So one was just a mile down the road. That was Jim Emery. And the other one was, oh, maybe three or four miles away in Kabisthalam. And that was Joe English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so I got to know them fairly well. They were both very friendly and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they helpful in getting you to, uh, understand how, how you could best live and how you could best accomplish your work and so forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.42199610435587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was, uh, I was closer to two volunteers who were from the previous group. So they, they had been there a year already by the time we got there. I was closer to them than, physically, than I was to our own members. So one was just a mile down the road. That was Jim Emery. And the other one was, oh, maybe three or four miles away in Kabisthalam. And that was Joe English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, so I got to know them fairly well. They were both very friendly and helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they helpful in getting you to, uh, understand how, how you could best live and how you could best accomplish your work and so forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would say in many ways, yes. And in other things, they couldn't help me because the number one thing I think that I needed was to be able to get to know some farmers and get them to trust me. And that was probably my number one difficulty there. And each of them, uh, had met and was dealing with a few farmers, but it was always with special circumstances. One was the farmer that Joe lived with. He had a very big farm, and so he had all he could do just to work with that farmer if you wanted to. And he had plenty of money, so he was very wealthy. And so it wasn't as though it was a risky proposition for him to do something that Joe recommended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's segue from that into your work itself. You were, I think of us as agricultural extension agents. But, but who were you working for? Who did you report to, if anyone? How in the village or in the provincial capital? And talk a little about your typical workday and what you did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.356175199798038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had our, we had our supervisor who was, uh, boss. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Full name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, Srinivas. Srinivasan. What was his full name? K Srinivasan I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we called him boss. He, he was happy with that. I think that was his suggestion. And he was the one who knew a lot of the agricultural development workers in that area. He was originally an agricultural development person and he's the one who got us our assignments and helped to pick the villages and seem to know the hierarchy of the agricultural development people in the county district. So he came, I forget, maybe once a month, maybe once a quarter, um, to see how we were doing. And, um. I never learned too much from boss, to be honest. But he was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. What about written materials? What about things, I mean, coming out of training, did you have guidance on identifying pests in the field, that kind of thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.593149944769102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One time I branched out into cotton and, oh, sugar cane. Sorry. And so the problem with sugar cane, what makes it so expensive and eats into the profits of the farmers, is the weeding. So a large chemical company, representatives from a large chemical company stopped by my house once or twice. And they said, you know, if you can find some farmers who are willing to try this, we have a herbicide which will kill the weeds, but it'll let the sugar cane grow. So I went to one of the wealthier farmers in the area and asked him if he would be willing to try a small plot with that. And he said yeah. So he started up a small plot, I don't know, maybe eighth of an acre or something in his. In some farmers' holdings, that's the whole thing. But in his case, it was just a small part. So we thought we were going to save some money. And we applied the herbicide, we planted the sugar cane, applied the herbicide, and lo and behold, it killed the sugar cane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah! Oh no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went back to the, uh, to the guys from the chemical company and they said, I think it was ICI. And I said, we've killed this farmer's sugar cane in this trial plot. They said, yeah, we found out about that so we don't sell that anymore. And they just had no sympathy whatsoever. And I never saw those guys again. So that was a waste of time, a waste of money for this farmer. And certainly we made no progress in trying to show them how to grow things better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, the chemical company was doing the trial runs on farmers' land. So instead of doing it themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any sort of, I mean, was there any accountability for the work you were doing, either from Peace Corps or from the block development officer in the Indian government? Or how, how did you, how were you judged, if you will, on this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.070770362026392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I probably did once or twice. And the, uh, and the local officials came around. They knew I had a radio and they, uh, they came around to check my radio and I showed them what it was, and they wanted to make sure I was legally licensed for that. So I showed them my permit, as I recall, and that was the end of that, and they never came back. But now remember, the whole problem with India and Pakistan was Muslim versus Hindu. Well, my village was half Hindu, half Muslim. So there was a lot of Muslim population in that area and a lot of Hindu. You'd think there would be a lot of animosity between the two groups and there was not. Leave me, leave me out of this. They just, they just continued their lives doing whatever they wanted to do, they needed to do. The farmers went to their fields and the merchants went to their shops and everybody continued doing business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. I think I agree in terms of my experience. But what about daily life apart from political events happening far away? What were the relationships between the two, between Hindus and Muslims in the village generally in terms of social contacts, cultural, etcetera?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not too. There was not actually that much interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there physical separation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a physical separation. There was about 200 yards between the two sections of the village. And then, uh, there's actually, on the other side, there was actually another Muslim village and another one after that. So but there was very little interaction. If I went to a village level panchayat meeting, for example, it would be all upper-class Muslims. And the lower-class Hindus had no say in the panchayat running. So, you know, the highest level probably in my village, in the Hindu part of the village, was a teacher. We had a very well-respected teacher, but no high-level income people in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were the landowners mostly Muslim then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.523078180029325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not too. There was not actually that much interaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there physical separation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a physical separation. There was about 200 yards between the two sections of the village. And then, uh, there's actually, on the other side, there was actually another Muslim village and another one after that. So but there was very little interaction. If I went to a village level panchayat meeting, for example, it would be all upper-class Muslims. And the lower-class Hindus had no say in the panchayat running. So, you know, the highest level probably in my village, in the Hindu part of the village, was a teacher. We had a very well-respected teacher, but no high-level income people in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were the landowners mostly Muslim then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Landowners were mostly Muslim and the Hindus had land, but they had very small amounts. So they didn't have extra capital, say, for example, to invest in betel cultivation, which was capital intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is betel vine, B-E-T-E-L."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.136753533365916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a physical separation. There was about 200 yards between the two sections of the village. And then, uh, there's actually, on the other side, there was actually another Muslim village and another one after that. So but there was very little interaction. If I went to a village level panchayat meeting, for example, it would be all upper-class Muslims. And the lower-class Hindus had no say in the panchayat running. So, you know, the highest level probably in my village, in the Hindu part of the village, was a teacher. We had a very well-respected teacher, but no high-level income people in that area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were the landowners mostly Muslim then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Landowners were mostly Muslim and the Hindus had land, but they had very small amounts. So they didn't have extra capital, say, for example, to invest in betel cultivation, which was capital intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is betel vine, B-E-T-E-L."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As opposed to beetles. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.92972614818435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Landowners were mostly Muslim and the Hindus had land, but they had very small amounts. So they didn't have extra capital, say, for example, to invest in betel cultivation, which was capital intensive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is betel vine, B-E-T-E-L."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As opposed to beetles. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. Leaf cultivation. So they were much lower income, I would say they probably had no more than a quarter of the income that the Muslims had and it was really subsistence for them. And it was, I was pleased to see that they were still sending most of their kids to school so that the next generation maybe had a better opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your village have schooling up to high school or just or elementary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.135464380474506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's right. Leaf cultivation. So they were much lower income, I would say they probably had no more than a quarter of the income that the Muslims had and it was really subsistence for them. And it was, I was pleased to see that they were still sending most of their kids to school so that the next generation maybe had a better opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your village have schooling up to high school or just or elementary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elementary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elementary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where kids went to for high school, how far away it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.093165901820374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Elementary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember where kids went to for high school, how far away it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably had to go to Papanasam is my guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't recall exactly where that high school was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were also other foreigners around the district, not in the village, but non Peace Corps, some of whom we knew I remember in Thanjavur. Did you work with any of those and what were your relationships?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 28.992406557578192, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably had to go to Papanasam is my guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't recall exactly where that high school was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were also other foreigners around the district, not in the village, but non Peace Corps, some of whom we knew I remember in Thanjavur. Did you work with any of those and what were your relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's actually how I met my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good. That's a good segue. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.10267395286466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I don't recall exactly where that high school was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were also other foreigners around the district, not in the village, but non Peace Corps, some of whom we knew I remember in Thanjavur. Did you work with any of those and what were your relationships?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's actually how I met my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good. That's a good segue. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, yes, there were, there was a United Nations development project in Thanjavur, which is 15 miles away, and they were investigating the groundwater there. How far down did the groundwater go when people ran their irrigation pumps, for example? And therefore, how many pumps can we put in and how intensely can we withdraw the water before we're hurting ourselves? And so they were doing serious research, took about four years or five years for that project to finish. And I met through some of the people in Thanjavur, I met some of those people and some of the researchers there.\n\nThere was, it was an international team led by a man actually from Poland and other researchers from the Netherlands and other places besides Americans as well. So I knew a researcher there named Clyde Swenson, who knew one of the Americans on that UN team, and we were all sitting around playing cards occasionally on a weekend, maybe. And, uh, and he was one of the guys. He was the guy who introduced me then to Laura, who was an Anglo-Indian secretary working for the UN Development Project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you explain the term Anglo-Indian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.78074883651629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's actually how I met my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good. That's a good segue. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We, yes, there were, there was a United Nations development project in Thanjavur, which is 15 miles away, and they were investigating the groundwater there. How far down did the groundwater go when people ran their irrigation pumps, for example? And therefore, how many pumps can we put in and how intensely can we withdraw the water before we're hurting ourselves? And so they were doing serious research, took about four years or five years for that project to finish. And I met through some of the people in Thanjavur, I met some of those people and some of the researchers there.\n\nThere was, it was an international team led by a man actually from Poland and other researchers from the Netherlands and other places besides Americans as well. So I knew a researcher there named Clyde Swenson, who knew one of the Americans on that UN team, and we were all sitting around playing cards occasionally on a weekend, maybe. And, uh, and he was one of the guys. He was the guy who introduced me then to Laura, who was an Anglo-Indian secretary working for the UN Development Project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you explain the term Anglo-Indian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, yes. Anglo-Indians are almost a caste in India, but they are the descendants of Britishers primarily, but also other foreigners and Indians' intermarriages in India. And they formed a subgroup in India for probably 300 years, ever since the British arrived, and it's been a very up and down history for them. But so they speak English at home and they dress primarily like Americans, and then they worship in the Catholic Church and the Anglican Church and they study English and go to college and do all kinds of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about Laura."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.455952226569501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Largely, a large part of that. Yeah. Naturally, growing up in that community, there were plenty of young men who, who knew her and they had many of these social activities, so they all knew each other. So he figured, why go outside of the community when you can marry inside the community? And I will say also, as a military man he was assigned to Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was on the U.N. Commission for Vietnam, the, what do they call them? The observers. He was one of the observers for the UN in Vietnam. And he was not impressed with American servicemen and their behavior in Vietnam. So that was a bad sign. And he decided he didn't want his daughter marrying one of these Americans. And he decided that he didn't, especially didn't want him to her to marry an American who was going to then take her outside of India. So she would be basically, suppose I was going to treat her badly. There was nobody there to be with her, to help her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was opposed to that pretty strongly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, but Laura's mother made, convinced him otherwise."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.284391362855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was on the U.N. Commission for Vietnam, the, what do they call them? The observers. He was one of the observers for the UN in Vietnam. And he was not impressed with American servicemen and their behavior in Vietnam. So that was a bad sign. And he decided he didn't want his daughter marrying one of these Americans. And he decided that he didn't, especially didn't want him to her to marry an American who was going to then take her outside of India. So she would be basically, suppose I was going to treat her badly. There was nobody there to be with her, to help her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was opposed to that pretty strongly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, but Laura's mother made, convinced him otherwise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Convinced him otherwise, sort of did an end run around him. And he just couldn't, couldn't say no. I guess he figured he couldn't say no at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fascinating. I remember your wedding as one of the most vivid events of my time in India. Would you like to talk about that event?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.09376818095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So he was opposed to that pretty strongly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But, but Laura's mother made, convinced him otherwise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Convinced him otherwise, sort of did an end run around him. And he just couldn't, couldn't say no. I guess he figured he couldn't say no at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fascinating. I remember your wedding as one of the most vivid events of my time in India. Would you like to talk about that event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was an amazing event, I will say. I, you know, I appreciate you and all the other volunteers coming so that I wouldn't be all alone at my own wedding. And, uh, and but everything was handled by Laura's family. They invited all the guests and arranged for all the, arranged for the ceremony and the reception afterwards. And it was just, it was basically a Western wedding, Western reception, but in an Indian context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And an Indian church."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.881964645500002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Convinced him otherwise, sort of did an end run around him. And he just couldn't, couldn't say no. I guess he figured he couldn't say no at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fascinating. I remember your wedding as one of the most vivid events of my time in India. Would you like to talk about that event?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was an amazing event, I will say. I, you know, I appreciate you and all the other volunteers coming so that I wouldn't be all alone at my own wedding. And, uh, and but everything was handled by Laura's family. They invited all the guests and arranged for all the, arranged for the ceremony and the reception afterwards. And it was just, it was basically a Western wedding, Western reception, but in an Indian context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And an Indian church."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian church. And, um, afterwards we all went to, about 300 people went to a big reception in the big hall that they had there and stayed till almost midnight. And then we headed, headed home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was almost all Anglo-Indian, as I recall."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.757738495000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was an amazing event, I will say. I, you know, I appreciate you and all the other volunteers coming so that I wouldn't be all alone at my own wedding. And, uh, and but everything was handled by Laura's family. They invited all the guests and arranged for all the, arranged for the ceremony and the reception afterwards. And it was just, it was basically a Western wedding, Western reception, but in an Indian context."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And an Indian church."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian church. And, um, afterwards we all went to, about 300 people went to a big reception in the big hall that they had there and stayed till almost midnight. And then we headed, headed home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was almost all Anglo-Indian, as I recall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost all Anglo-Indian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And very lively."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.730820550000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Indian church. And, um, afterwards we all went to, about 300 people went to a big reception in the big hall that they had there and stayed till almost midnight. And then we headed, headed home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was almost all Anglo-Indian, as I recall."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost all Anglo-Indian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And very lively."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very lively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They like to have fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.478689500000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost all Anglo-Indian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And very lively."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very lively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They like to have fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They love to have fun. And they are great dancers. And they, uh, the music was all Western and about 10 to 15 years, 10 to 20 years behind. So they liked country, liked country and western. A lot of that. Jim Reeves and others. And, uh, but they played it well. They had all the guitar playing and the, whatever other instruments, you know, they had a keyboard and some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't even remember. Did you have a best man?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.232950000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They love to have fun. And they are great dancers. And they, uh, the music was all Western and about 10 to 15 years, 10 to 20 years behind. So they liked country, liked country and western. A lot of that. Jim Reeves and others. And, uh, but they played it well. They had all the guitar playing and the, whatever other instruments, you know, they had a keyboard and some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't even remember. Did you have a best man?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best man was Sven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Danish volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.925500000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The best man was Sven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Danish volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Danish volunteer. And the other parts, uh, groomsmen were Brian, Brian Hirschfeld, and Arnie Burmeister. And, um, let's see, was that it? I think that was it. Because Laura had herself and her three sisters. Let's see. So, no. So there's one more on, no, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's right. Three and three."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.695000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Danish volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Danish volunteer. And the other parts, uh, groomsmen were Brian, Brian Hirschfeld, and Arnie Burmeister. And, um, let's see, was that it? I think that was it. Because Laura had herself and her three sisters. Let's see. So, no. So there's one more on, no, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's right. Three and three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and three. So we had three members on each side of the bridal party and then we had ourselves. So all together that would make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By this time you'd had a little exposure to the Anglo-Indian community. But those of us coming from the village did not and were astounded that this culture existed so close to our villages and was so Western and so lively and so different from the rest of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.55, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Danish volunteer. And the other parts, uh, groomsmen were Brian, Brian Hirschfeld, and Arnie Burmeister. And, um, let's see, was that it? I think that was it. Because Laura had herself and her three sisters. Let's see. So, no. So there's one more on, no, that's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's right. Three and three."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and three. So we had three members on each side of the bridal party and then we had ourselves. So all together that would make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By this time you'd had a little exposure to the Anglo-Indian community. But those of us coming from the village did not and were astounded that this culture existed so close to our villages and was so Western and so lively and so different from the rest of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd seen in southern India."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.5, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three and three. So we had three members on each side of the bridal party and then we had ourselves. So all together that would make."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By this time you'd had a little exposure to the Anglo-Indian community. But those of us coming from the village did not and were astounded that this culture existed so close to our villages and was so Western and so lively and so different from the rest of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd seen in southern India."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a world away. It was completely different from anything we had been exposed to in the village and. And in fact, to be honest, I, I didn't realize how much, how extensive that, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, okay. So now bring us up to date on the last 45 years and what's happened with your family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00119:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 5.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What we'd seen in southern India."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a world away. It was completely different from anything we had been exposed to in the village and. And in fact, to be honest, I, I didn't realize how much, how extensive that, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, okay. So now bring us up to date on the last 45 years and what's happened with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we've had, we live in Washington, D.C., now, and we have been here for almost 40, over 40 years. And after finishing graduate school, we settled down here in Washington, D.C., and we've had a girl and a boy and now we have two grandchildren. And, um, and my wife went to work for the World Bank when we came to Washington and they gave us home leave, so they sent the whole family to go to India. So we went to India like maybe ten times and got to see all the people there. And one of the things that came out of that was that our daughter met one of the young men from Laura's hometown and married him. So now they live here 5 minutes from our house and he's working in data processing, making more money than I ever made and doing very well. And she's teaching and our son is in, lives 10 minutes away and he's selling real estate so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Well, this has been a great interview. But before we end up, are there other stories that come to mind that you would like to share? Anything else that I've missed here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.810655120667743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm good, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and also, I have to say, this is the first time using the digital recorder, but I have a tape recorder going also. OK, so the first question is for Barbara to describe her family, work, if she would like to, current residence to begin with. OK, so let's begin with that Barb Johnston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My current work?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. I am presently live in Denver, Colorado. I am a school nurse and I've been a school nurse for 20 years and planned to retire at in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your family situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.789616800741937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My current work?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. I am presently live in Denver, Colorado. I am a school nurse and I've been a school nurse for 20 years and planned to retire at in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your family situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I have and I'm single and I have an adopted daughter, Abby, who's twenty 22 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s Abby from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.766240889713263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. I am presently live in Denver, Colorado. I am a school nurse and I've been a school nurse for 20 years and planned to retire at in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your family situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I have and I'm single and I have an adopted daughter, Abby, who's twenty 22 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s Abby from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was born in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you can think back to the year before joining the Peace Corps and what you can remember, what was your life like back then? So I know you were 1980, so about 1979. Anything you might want to share with us that influenced you to become a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.629156544125848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, I have and I'm single and I have an adopted daughter, Abby, who's twenty 22 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s Abby from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was born in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you can think back to the year before joining the Peace Corps and what you can remember, what was your life like back then? So I know you were 1980, so about 1979. Anything you might want to share with us that influenced you to become a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time I was, I had worked for the migrant health program. I also lived in an apartment and I was thinking, what was I going to do next. I believe I was working part time at the hospital also or with the Visiting Nurse Association. And I happened to see in the paper where they wanted Peace Corps volunteers when I was looking for jobs and they were advertising for Peace Corps. And I thought, hmm, I'm not sure what I want to do with my life, so I'm ready to make a change. And so I applied. And originally I was going to go to Yemen in 1980, but because of there some political unrest, then I got switch to go to Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps or is that so?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.476840604584277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was born in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, if you can think back to the year before joining the Peace Corps and what you can remember, what was your life like back then? So I know you were 1980, so about 1979. Anything you might want to share with us that influenced you to become a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time I was, I had worked for the migrant health program. I also lived in an apartment and I was thinking, what was I going to do next. I believe I was working part time at the hospital also or with the Visiting Nurse Association. And I happened to see in the paper where they wanted Peace Corps volunteers when I was looking for jobs and they were advertising for Peace Corps. And I thought, hmm, I'm not sure what I want to do with my life, so I'm ready to make a change. And so I applied. And originally I was going to go to Yemen in 1980, but because of there some political unrest, then I got switch to go to Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps or is that so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, I was going to go with the water supply group. A couple of those people were had done just construction. A couple of people were bridge builders or engineers. They were all guys and one, a couple of women in the group. And I went with them and obviously and when I got there, I knew that that's not the training that I could do. So I was able to join a health and nutrition group. I was I was the only one, but like a lady ministry or something, let me get involved in the southern part of Nepal. So I was in the tri area called Hetauda. I went between two different villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.196489560649197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at the time I was, I had worked for the migrant health program. I also lived in an apartment and I was thinking, what was I going to do next. I believe I was working part time at the hospital also or with the Visiting Nurse Association. And I happened to see in the paper where they wanted Peace Corps volunteers when I was looking for jobs and they were advertising for Peace Corps. And I thought, hmm, I'm not sure what I want to do with my life, so I'm ready to make a change. And so I applied. And originally I was going to go to Yemen in 1980, but because of there some political unrest, then I got switch to go to Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, anything else you might want to add about why you joined the Peace Corps or is that so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, I was going to go with the water supply group. A couple of those people were had done just construction. A couple of people were bridge builders or engineers. They were all guys and one, a couple of women in the group. And I went with them and obviously and when I got there, I knew that that's not the training that I could do. So I was able to join a health and nutrition group. I was I was the only one, but like a lady ministry or something, let me get involved in the southern part of Nepal. So I was in the tri area called Hetauda. I went between two different villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, H-E-T-O-U-D-A I believe [sic]. And the other was a Japong village which is a tribe and it was two or three hours away from there across the river and totally different people in that kind of thing. So I worked in those two, those two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and now the third question, we already talked about how you heard about the Peace Corps. Can you talk a little bit about the process and the timing? For instance, some people say, oh, it took me nine months to get accepted or things of that nature. Do you remember much about how you applied? How long did it take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.88498840072133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, I was going to go with the water supply group. A couple of those people were had done just construction. A couple of people were bridge builders or engineers. They were all guys and one, a couple of women in the group. And I went with them and obviously and when I got there, I knew that that's not the training that I could do. So I was able to join a health and nutrition group. I was I was the only one, but like a lady ministry or something, let me get involved in the southern part of Nepal. So I was in the tri area called Hetauda. I went between two different villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you spell that village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, H-E-T-O-U-D-A I believe [sic]. And the other was a Japong village which is a tribe and it was two or three hours away from there across the river and totally different people in that kind of thing. So I worked in those two, those two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and now the third question, we already talked about how you heard about the Peace Corps. Can you talk a little bit about the process and the timing? For instance, some people say, oh, it took me nine months to get accepted or things of that nature. Do you remember much about how you applied? How long did it take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application took as long as it does now. I know people now wait several months. I might have waited several months, but I think the length of time wasn’t as long. And I do I did at the at the time I had a bachelor's degree in sociology, but I was an LPN, so I wasn’t an RN at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you have a specific country or project in mind yourself before you joined?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.649987111912589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, H-E-T-O-U-D-A I believe [sic]. And the other was a Japong village which is a tribe and it was two or three hours away from there across the river and totally different people in that kind of thing. So I worked in those two, those two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, and now the third question, we already talked about how you heard about the Peace Corps. Can you talk a little bit about the process and the timing? For instance, some people say, oh, it took me nine months to get accepted or things of that nature. Do you remember much about how you applied? How long did it take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application took as long as it does now. I know people now wait several months. I might have waited several months, but I think the length of time wasn’t as long. And I do I did at the at the time I had a bachelor's degree in sociology, but I was an LPN, so I wasn’t an RN at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you have a specific country or project in mind yourself before you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. OK, here's the fourth question. So what were your friends or family's reactions when you were accepted? For instance, was there any hesitation or reservations on their part, your part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.388874568791765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application took as long as it does now. I know people now wait several months. I might have waited several months, but I think the length of time wasn’t as long. And I do I did at the at the time I had a bachelor's degree in sociology, but I was an LPN, so I wasn’t an RN at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you have a specific country or project in mind yourself before you joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. OK, here's the fourth question. So what were your friends or family's reactions when you were accepted? For instance, was there any hesitation or reservations on their part, your part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember my father said that I need to stay home and get a regular job so I can start getting Social Security."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, sorry we're laughing, those of you who are listening."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.20986063199085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. OK, here's the fourth question. So what were your friends or family's reactions when you were accepted? For instance, was there any hesitation or reservations on their part, your part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember my father said that I need to stay home and get a regular job so I can start getting Social Security."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, sorry we're laughing, those of you who are listening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, and quit moving around or have that. So I remember him saying it was important to get a good job and settle down and start getting Social Security. And that's basically family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your mom and or your sister and brother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.122067368878723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I remember my father said that I need to stay home and get a regular job so I can start getting Social Security."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, sorry we're laughing, those of you who are listening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, and quit moving around or have that. So I remember him saying it was important to get a good job and settle down and start getting Social Security. And that's basically family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your mom and or your sister and brother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they were accepting. My mother actually had cancer at the time, was diagnosed and she said, you've always wanted to do something like this, so you need to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. OK, here's the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? You've already mentioned that a little bit. So maybe we could talk about the nutrition and health then. How did you prepare yourself and others for your, it says dislocation, but like moving away, entering into two years of Peace Corps service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.928478233183608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they were accepting. My mother actually had cancer at the time, was diagnosed and she said, you've always wanted to do something like this, so you need to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. OK, here's the fifth question. What project were you invited to join? You've already mentioned that a little bit. So maybe we could talk about the nutrition and health then. How did you prepare yourself and others for your, it says dislocation, but like moving away, entering into two years of Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived here in Denver and I had an apartment, so I moved a lot of things home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wyoming. Casper, Wyoming. And then I did move some of my furniture, a few pieces, my furniture to the San Luis Valley where I had lived before, to a friend that lived out in the country. So but a lot of it just went home at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, our next question is about your Peace Corps training. This is question six. The question has to do with where were you trained? If you want to speak about the faculty, the syllabus they used, technical studies, things of that to begin with, then we have more parts to that question. Do you remember much about the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.476086925759564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I lived here in Denver and I had an apartment, so I moved a lot of things home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where’s home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wyoming. Casper, Wyoming. And then I did move some of my furniture, a few pieces, my furniture to the San Luis Valley where I had lived before, to a friend that lived out in the country. So but a lot of it just went home at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, our next question is about your Peace Corps training. This is question six. The question has to do with where were you trained? If you want to speak about the faculty, the syllabus they used, technical studies, things of that to begin with, then we have more parts to that question. Do you remember much about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, training was wonderful meeting Nepali people who I think the cultural aspect of teaching us about different caste systems, about different things, about Nepal were wonderful in the literature they gave us. Now that I'm looking back, I think that was and also the training was fun when we had to go live with families for a while during that period of time. I’ve kind of forgotten exactly. But I remember the training taught about language, cultural situations, because Nepal has so many varied populations that, Hindu you know, some are Buddhist. And, you know, we had to learn the different cultural situations. So that was a lot of interest. I had a hard time with the language myself. I thought it was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And which language did you learn?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.973429917510626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wyoming. Casper, Wyoming. And then I did move some of my furniture, a few pieces, my furniture to the San Luis Valley where I had lived before, to a friend that lived out in the country. So but a lot of it just went home at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, our next question is about your Peace Corps training. This is question six. The question has to do with where were you trained? If you want to speak about the faculty, the syllabus they used, technical studies, things of that to begin with, then we have more parts to that question. Do you remember much about the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, training was wonderful meeting Nepali people who I think the cultural aspect of teaching us about different caste systems, about different things, about Nepal were wonderful in the literature they gave us. Now that I'm looking back, I think that was and also the training was fun when we had to go live with families for a while during that period of time. I’ve kind of forgotten exactly. But I remember the training taught about language, cultural situations, because Nepal has so many varied populations that, Hindu you know, some are Buddhist. And, you know, we had to learn the different cultural situations. So that was a lot of interest. I had a hard time with the language myself. I thought it was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And which language did you learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepali. Ok, I'm going to say something about the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reaction to other trainees, unless you want to expand on the training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.526033241678473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, training was wonderful meeting Nepali people who I think the cultural aspect of teaching us about different caste systems, about different things, about Nepal were wonderful in the literature they gave us. Now that I'm looking back, I think that was and also the training was fun when we had to go live with families for a while during that period of time. I’ve kind of forgotten exactly. But I remember the training taught about language, cultural situations, because Nepal has so many varied populations that, Hindu you know, some are Buddhist. And, you know, we had to learn the different cultural situations. So that was a lot of interest. I had a hard time with the language myself. I thought it was very difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And which language did you learn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepali. Ok, I'm going to say something about the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reaction to other trainees, unless you want to expand on the training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just wanted to say the training is that once I got to my village doing health and nutrition, it's hard to do health and nutrition when the buffalo is, you know, wallowing in a mud puddle or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the buffalo a fellow student?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.140036935198303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nepali. Ok, I'm going to say something about the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The reaction to other trainees, unless you want to expand on the training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just wanted to say the training is that once I got to my village doing health and nutrition, it's hard to do health and nutrition when the buffalo is, you know, wallowing in a mud puddle or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the buffalo a fellow student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and so I do believe training. I wish they'd spent more time teaching about gardening, raising chickens and other things. The cultural aspect was wonderful and that kind of thing. But I wish they had spent more time training because I didn't do gardening here. I mean, you know, and maybe they think that was just automatic. But I think they wish they'd given more training on how to raise chickens, gardening, small goats, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About language training, I don't know if you said this, did you have to live with a family that spoke only Nepali, for instance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.711152150220337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just wanted to say the training is that once I got to my village doing health and nutrition, it's hard to do health and nutrition when the buffalo is, you know, wallowing in a mud puddle or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the buffalo a fellow student?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and so I do believe training. I wish they'd spent more time teaching about gardening, raising chickens and other things. The cultural aspect was wonderful and that kind of thing. But I wish they had spent more time training because I didn't do gardening here. I mean, you know, and maybe they think that was just automatic. But I think they wish they'd given more training on how to raise chickens, gardening, small goats, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About language training, I don't know if you said this, did you have to live with a family that spoke only Nepali, for instance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I lived with a couple of different families and they only spoke Nepali and we stayed with them for so many weeks. And then I think we changed to another family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now I don't know the selection process, what they're doing now in 2016. But at that time many of us had a selection process. I'm assuming that they did for you, like some of the folks in your group that maybe did not make it to become a volunteer. Did you have anything you want to share with us about the selection or did you have other trainees that had to go home that couldn't finish the, I'm assuming, ten weeks of training? Whatever anything you want to share about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.234613500244818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and so I do believe training. I wish they'd spent more time teaching about gardening, raising chickens and other things. The cultural aspect was wonderful and that kind of thing. But I wish they had spent more time training because I didn't do gardening here. I mean, you know, and maybe they think that was just automatic. But I think they wish they'd given more training on how to raise chickens, gardening, small goats, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "About language training, I don't know if you said this, did you have to live with a family that spoke only Nepali, for instance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I lived with a couple of different families and they only spoke Nepali and we stayed with them for so many weeks. And then I think we changed to another family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now I don't know the selection process, what they're doing now in 2016. But at that time many of us had a selection process. I'm assuming that they did for you, like some of the folks in your group that maybe did not make it to become a volunteer. Did you have anything you want to share with us about the selection or did you have other trainees that had to go home that couldn't finish the, I'm assuming, ten weeks of training? Whatever anything you want to share about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just remember one woman friend in our group from California had been there before traveling and she decided not to stay in work and be there as a volunteer. So she left. But that's how I remember I'm sure there were a couple of people. But, you know, I don't know because I kind of work solo in my mind because I was with this nutrition parliament group or associated with a lady in the in this one area. I mean, there were a couple of people left, but I can't remember. I remember she left because she just didn't feel like it was going to fit in. She loved traveling there and she had traveled there before, but I don't think she wanted to work there for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, do you remember how many people were in your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.816237222494243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah, I lived with a couple of different families and they only spoke Nepali and we stayed with them for so many weeks. And then I think we changed to another family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now I don't know the selection process, what they're doing now in 2016. But at that time many of us had a selection process. I'm assuming that they did for you, like some of the folks in your group that maybe did not make it to become a volunteer. Did you have anything you want to share with us about the selection or did you have other trainees that had to go home that couldn't finish the, I'm assuming, ten weeks of training? Whatever anything you want to share about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just remember one woman friend in our group from California had been there before traveling and she decided not to stay in work and be there as a volunteer. So she left. But that's how I remember I'm sure there were a couple of people. But, you know, I don't know because I kind of work solo in my mind because I was with this nutrition parliament group or associated with a lady in the in this one area. I mean, there were a couple of people left, but I can't remember. I remember she left because she just didn't feel like it was going to fit in. She loved traveling there and she had traveled there before, but I don't think she wanted to work there for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, do you remember how many people were in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there might have been 10 to 15. I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, while we're moving on to the seventh question, what was your when you first went into the country, enter the country, your reaction to the country that you were saying, which in your case was Nepal, for instance? The project will start with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.240263580549158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I just remember one woman friend in our group from California had been there before traveling and she decided not to stay in work and be there as a volunteer. So she left. But that's how I remember I'm sure there were a couple of people. But, you know, I don't know because I kind of work solo in my mind because I was with this nutrition parliament group or associated with a lady in the in this one area. I mean, there were a couple of people left, but I can't remember. I remember she left because she just didn't feel like it was going to fit in. She loved traveling there and she had traveled there before, but I don't think she wanted to work there for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, do you remember how many people were in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there might have been 10 to 15. I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, while we're moving on to the seventh question, what was your when you first went into the country, enter the country, your reaction to the country that you were saying, which in your case was Nepal, for instance? The project will start with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not even just a project, but I remember being in Kathmandu and going out with other volunteers or going out in the evening. And just definitely a culture shock of the mass amount of poverty in the area. You know, people cooking outside, you know, no electricity, no water. You know, even in Kathmandu, you know, streets were very dark, no lighting. And I just, you know, by the mass amount of poverty, not just certain sections like you might see in the United States, but, you know, the poverty. And certainly you could see the lack of resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never thought is this is not on the list of questions, but sometimes people talk about the smells. Do you remember or anything like that, if people were cooking outside and I'm not sure about the bathroom usage then. But anything you remember about that, the sounds, the smell, you know, people would cook outside."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.600292867276842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there might have been 10 to 15. I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, while we're moving on to the seventh question, what was your when you first went into the country, enter the country, your reaction to the country that you were saying, which in your case was Nepal, for instance? The project will start with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not even just a project, but I remember being in Kathmandu and going out with other volunteers or going out in the evening. And just definitely a culture shock of the mass amount of poverty in the area. You know, people cooking outside, you know, no electricity, no water. You know, even in Kathmandu, you know, streets were very dark, no lighting. And I just, you know, by the mass amount of poverty, not just certain sections like you might see in the United States, but, you know, the poverty. And certainly you could see the lack of resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never thought is this is not on the list of questions, but sometimes people talk about the smells. Do you remember or anything like that, if people were cooking outside and I'm not sure about the bathroom usage then. But anything you remember about that, the sounds, the smell, you know, people would cook outside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were hardly any bathrooms around or there weren't any. And so a lot of times, especially the women would go in my villages would go out in the fields. But in the town of Katmandu, you just you know, there weren't a lot of there weren't those kind of things set up. A lot of the restaurants were not very clean either. I think they got used to clean them more when trekkers started coming through and they would clean the rice from the table or whatever. But, yeah, the sense of poverty and health and, you know, made there might be water spigots in the town or whatever, but definitely the poverty and lack of resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anything you want to share with us about the Peace Corps staff at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5669312308324304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know they were Nepalis that, you know, were great people. You know, I, I that's all I, I know they were you know, a lot of them had later, I think some of them came to the United States or went on to school or whatever. But, you know, they were, you know, great people to meet. I mean, while I was there, I didn't continue any knowing any of them afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how long was your training, your Peace Corps training? Don't remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the same as everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[00:13:54]. I know mine was ten weeks. But anyways, we're moving onwards to the eighth question, which is to talk about your assignment. So some of the examples we could use are could you tell us a little bit about the specifics of your job assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8521458120360337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the same as everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[00:13:54]. I know mine was ten weeks. But anyways, we're moving onwards to the eighth question, which is to talk about your assignment. So some of the examples we could use are could you tell us a little bit about the specifics of your job assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, well, I lived in. Hetauda was the main town and I walked probably forty five minutes to a village where I lived with the family and I lived upstairs and they all lived downstairs. And the ama, the mother did cook upstairs. So but anyway, I had a separate room above the tea shop. They had a tea shop down below and one room where the family lived. And I lived upstairs and it was all kind of a road just going through the town. And there were houses on each side and one school at the end of the block. And so I that's where I lived there. And then in the village I lived in the health post and in. As a health post was on one side and I stayed on the other side in a room there, and so I kind of went back and forth between the two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you might have said this, and I might not have I'd have recorded it. Did you ever actually work in that water supply project for a short time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1690509022622595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the same as everybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[00:13:54]. I know mine was ten weeks. But anyways, we're moving onwards to the eighth question, which is to talk about your assignment. So some of the examples we could use are could you tell us a little bit about the specifics of your job assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, well, I lived in. Hetauda was the main town and I walked probably forty five minutes to a village where I lived with the family and I lived upstairs and they all lived downstairs. And the ama, the mother did cook upstairs. So but anyway, I had a separate room above the tea shop. They had a tea shop down below and one room where the family lived. And I lived upstairs and it was all kind of a road just going through the town. And there were houses on each side and one school at the end of the block. And so I that's where I lived there. And then in the village I lived in the health post and in. As a health post was on one side and I stayed on the other side in a room there, and so I kind of went back and forth between the two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you might have said this, and I might not have I'd have recorded it. Did you ever actually work in that water supply project for a short time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that was the initial project. OK, so you always work on nutrition and health."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5211676691802882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, well, I lived in. Hetauda was the main town and I walked probably forty five minutes to a village where I lived with the family and I lived upstairs and they all lived downstairs. And the ama, the mother did cook upstairs. So but anyway, I had a separate room above the tea shop. They had a tea shop down below and one room where the family lived. And I lived upstairs and it was all kind of a road just going through the town. And there were houses on each side and one school at the end of the block. And so I that's where I lived there. And then in the village I lived in the health post and in. As a health post was on one side and I stayed on the other side in a room there, and so I kind of went back and forth between the two villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you might have said this, and I might not have I'd have recorded it. Did you ever actually work in that water supply project for a short time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that was the initial project. OK, so you always work on nutrition and health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I might have gone through that part of the training, then I was able to switch over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you share with us anything about your living conditions? I mean, you've already mentioned a little bit that you lived above the house. We'll start with that one. So what was your room like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8012974102003203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that was the initial project. OK, so you always work on nutrition and health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I might have gone through that part of the training, then I was able to switch over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you share with us anything about your living conditions? I mean, you've already mentioned a little bit that you lived above the house. We'll start with that one. So what was your room like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just one room and I get locked out of the window down the road to see everybody coming in and out. And they had different houses on each side. And when I say houses, they were mostly wooden buildings. And then the other village was much more, they were Japong, they wore loincloths. They were the poverty there was even more. And they grew millet there and their houses were just small with thatched roofs. A lot of them were wooden with that roofs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you use for the bathroom or outhouse or whatever?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.112552678000356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, OK. I might have gone through that part of the training, then I was able to switch over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you share with us anything about your living conditions? I mean, you've already mentioned a little bit that you lived above the house. We'll start with that one. So what was your room like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just one room and I get locked out of the window down the road to see everybody coming in and out. And they had different houses on each side. And when I say houses, they were mostly wooden buildings. And then the other village was much more, they were Japong, they wore loincloths. They were the poverty there was even more. And they grew millet there and their houses were just small with thatched roofs. A lot of them were wooden with that roofs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you use for the bathroom or outhouse or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have an outhouse. You just, you went. I did try to build an outhouse with some people there. Did build one, but they just used the out by the back of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you had to do also."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.45839186444484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's just one room and I get locked out of the window down the road to see everybody coming in and out. And they had different houses on each side. And when I say houses, they were mostly wooden buildings. And then the other village was much more, they were Japong, they wore loincloths. They were the poverty there was even more. And they grew millet there and their houses were just small with thatched roofs. A lot of them were wooden with that roofs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you use for the bathroom or outhouse or whatever?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have an outhouse. You just, you went. I did try to build an outhouse with some people there. Did build one, but they just used the out by the back of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you had to do also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I'm going to assume electricity, there wasn’t any?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.842657627160933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have an outhouse. You just, you went. I did try to build an outhouse with some people there. Did build one, but they just used the out by the back of the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what you had to do also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I'm going to assume electricity, there wasn’t any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Electricity in the one village was on and off and the other village didn't have any electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and how did you get water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.26961958573437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I'm going to assume electricity, there wasn’t any?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Electricity in the one village was on and off and the other village didn't have any electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and how did you get water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a well a river down the road and we brought water up in a bucket from there. So I used a bucket and I would go to the river to bathe and stuff like that, just like sponge bath stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about a typical day in your first village? Or maybe they're the same, but the typical day, OK?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6329106508159668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Electricity in the one village was on and off and the other village didn't have any electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and how did you get water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a well a river down the road and we brought water up in a bucket from there. So I used a bucket and I would go to the river to bathe and stuff like that, just like sponge bath stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about a typical day in your first village? Or maybe they're the same, but the typical day, OK?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty much on my own, so I had a bag with actually some deworming medicine and the strip that you measure children's arms with for malnutrition. And I went around and I did have some posters and small posters and I would just go around to the village and do health and nutrition and talk about, you know, washing your hands and trying to build toilets and cleaning wounds. That was one of the biggest things, is seeing wounds on kids that got infected and so making sure they cleaned with soap and water or just water even. And so I did that and I would just kind of walk them down the road and do that a couple of days. I would work in the health post with someone there and people would be coming in for different care there because their kids were sick. And I was at that health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of soap, did most families have some type of soap to use?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.036567389795518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a well a river down the road and we brought water up in a bucket from there. So I used a bucket and I would go to the river to bathe and stuff like that, just like sponge bath stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about a typical day in your first village? Or maybe they're the same, but the typical day, OK?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was pretty much on my own, so I had a bag with actually some deworming medicine and the strip that you measure children's arms with for malnutrition. And I went around and I did have some posters and small posters and I would just go around to the village and do health and nutrition and talk about, you know, washing your hands and trying to build toilets and cleaning wounds. That was one of the biggest things, is seeing wounds on kids that got infected and so making sure they cleaned with soap and water or just water even. And so I did that and I would just kind of walk them down the road and do that a couple of days. I would work in the health post with someone there and people would be coming in for different care there because their kids were sick. And I was at that health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of soap, did most families have some type of soap to use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they just they used just water from, you know, that they got from the river. A lot of them didn't have. So some of them made their own soap or, you know, they may have gotten some. I do remember pregnant women, if they killed a goat or something, they would keep the blood, drink the blood because that gave them iron. So, you know, they used every bit of every slaughter, every chicken, every goat, everything that they always used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever try drinking the blood?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.98341653061175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they just they used just water from, you know, that they got from the river. A lot of them didn't have. So some of them made their own soap or, you know, they may have gotten some. I do remember pregnant women, if they killed a goat or something, they would keep the blood, drink the blood because that gave them iron. So, you know, they used every bit of every slaughter, every chicken, every goat, everything that they always used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever try drinking the blood?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did eat the goat though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. OK, how would you describe your relations with the people of the country? However, if you want to start with your host family, perhaps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5371294784575005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did eat the goat though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. OK, how would you describe your relations with the people of the country? However, if you want to start with your host family, perhaps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my host family had a mother and a father and they had two children living in the house. And the one little girl was deaf, I remember, and she didn't go to school. And I can remember once, while she would have temper tantrums or whatever in the middle of the road, I could hear her mother, you know, getting upset with her or whatever. And they had a brother-in-law or something, ran the tea shop to I didn't see the dad a lot. I think he went to another town, works part of the time or something. But anyway, so I lived upstairs with them and, um. And then what was it. Oh, and the other village I live by myself and I just kind of got to know people in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you lived in the health post? Like a health center or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.152366087175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did eat the goat though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. OK, how would you describe your relations with the people of the country? However, if you want to start with your host family, perhaps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my host family had a mother and a father and they had two children living in the house. And the one little girl was deaf, I remember, and she didn't go to school. And I can remember once, while she would have temper tantrums or whatever in the middle of the road, I could hear her mother, you know, getting upset with her or whatever. And they had a brother-in-law or something, ran the tea shop to I didn't see the dad a lot. I think he went to another town, works part of the time or something. But anyway, so I lived upstairs with them and, um. And then what was it. Oh, and the other village I live by myself and I just kind of got to know people in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you lived in the health post? Like a health center or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. Did you have a room to yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.835962319083333, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my host family had a mother and a father and they had two children living in the house. And the one little girl was deaf, I remember, and she didn't go to school. And I can remember once, while she would have temper tantrums or whatever in the middle of the road, I could hear her mother, you know, getting upset with her or whatever. And they had a brother-in-law or something, ran the tea shop to I didn't see the dad a lot. I think he went to another town, works part of the time or something. But anyway, so I lived upstairs with them and, um. And then what was it. Oh, and the other village I live by myself and I just kind of got to know people in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you lived in the health post? Like a health center or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. Did you have a room to yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just part of the health, it was in the. There was one room there, there was two rooms. And I guess I stayed in one room, the other room. Yeah, the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, how about other Peace Corps volunteers? Were there other Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.59551368787037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. Did you have a room to yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just part of the health, it was in the. There was one room there, there was two rooms. And I guess I stayed in one room, the other room. Yeah, the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, how about other Peace Corps volunteers? Were there other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other Peace Corps volunteers? When I went to Kathmandu, that's when I saw the Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have said this and I don't remember. How far away were your towns from Kathmandu?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.4394596531893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just part of the health, it was in the. There was one room there, there was two rooms. And I guess I stayed in one room, the other room. Yeah, the health post."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, how about other Peace Corps volunteers? Were there other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other Peace Corps volunteers? When I went to Kathmandu, that's when I saw the Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have said this and I don't remember. How far away were your towns from Kathmandu?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. Um, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or how about time, like an hour to get there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.043844059099221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other Peace Corps volunteers? When I went to Kathmandu, that's when I saw the Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You might have said this and I don't remember. How far away were your towns from Kathmandu?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. Um, I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or how about time, like an hour to get there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. From Hetauda you had to take a bus north to Kathmandu. I don't know if I remember, three or four hours on the bus. And so the other one was further away. So I think there were several hours on a bus ride to Kathmandu, but there it was right on the border of India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, another part of this assignment question has to do with your work time versus leisure time. Well, anything you've already talked a little bit about your work time. Anything else you'd like to share about your workday?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.1634568802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in I was stationed in Hetauda, but I was, I can't really remember. I was kind of under a lady ministry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ministry of Health or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that's how I worked with. I didn't work with her. But she's the one that set me up for these two villages and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nepali minister?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't know. I can't even remember how I got set up with them her. I only met with her a couple of times though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how about your leisure time? What would you do when you weren't working?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4038409780000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and that's how I worked with. I didn't work with her. But she's the one that set me up for these two villages and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nepali minister?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I don't know. I can't even remember how I got set up with them her. I only met with her a couple of times though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how about your leisure time? What would you do when you weren't working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, well when I wasn't working I went to Hetauda. Oh, there was a Peace Corps volunteer there that I'm still in contact with. He lives in Washington, D.C. And he was working at the college there, had a totally, totally different kind of training or program than I did. He lived in quite a nice, nice little house, but he went to a little college every day and was working with animals something. And but anyway, so he came to my village one time. He said, oh, my gosh, I can't believe, you know, just such a change of, yeah, whatever. But I visited him. Also there were some British people in the town of Hetauda working on a water project. So I spent time with them and Australians visited them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had specific projects now working on, working on, OK, British and Australians. OK, would you like to say anything about how your life and work changed over the time you spent there? Anything else you like to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.062882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was just very difficult because you don't have resources and you don't have you know. It's very, very difficult when people I mean, don't have the amount of food. They don't have water to grow things sometimes, you know. So it's very hard to teach nutrition. It's kind of and also their animals are probably, you know, a greater priority. But it's harder to teach nutrition when, you know, they need other things. They need clean water. They need schools. They need you know, they need food, they need vegetables. They need those kind of things. And, you know, to really do a good job and help teach teaching health and nutrition. So I tried to focus on washing hands, building latrines. The kids did have a lot of worms, those kind of things. You know, you saw the malnutrition of kids and you know, so I tried to work on general health stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, this is the ninth question that we're going to ask. What this is about the end of your first year within the list of examples they give. Anything you like to share with us about any notable events, your reflections after a year of unexpected events?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember right now because it was so many years ago. I don't remember a specific thing at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how about health problems that did you have any health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was pretty healthy, except for maybe getting giardia a once in a while. Yeah, yeah. But otherwise I was pretty healthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take, were you able to take a vacation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1809800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't remember right now because it was so many years ago. I don't remember a specific thing at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, how about health problems that did you have any health problems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was pretty healthy, except for maybe getting giardia a once in a while. Yeah, yeah. But otherwise I was pretty healthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take, were you able to take a vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, I did go to India and I went to Sri Lanka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Did you travel much within the country of Nepal?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was pretty healthy, except for maybe getting giardia a once in a while. Yeah, yeah. But otherwise I was pretty healthy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take, were you able to take a vacation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, I did go to India and I went to Sri Lanka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Did you travel much within the country of Nepal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I traveled some because I came from the mountains. I was excited about the mountains there, but I was more excited about the different people. So I didn't go to some different tourist places, like a lot of Nepalis or like a lot of Peace Corps volunteers did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, I think it's they call it the base camp. I mean, I can't remember in a previous conversation, you might have told me. Did you go to the Mount Everest base camp?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4580000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there, I did go to India and I went to Sri Lanka."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. Did you travel much within the country of Nepal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I traveled some because I came from the mountains. I was excited about the mountains there, but I was more excited about the different people. So I didn't go to some different tourist places, like a lot of Nepalis or like a lot of Peace Corps volunteers did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, I think it's they call it the base camp. I mean, I can't remember in a previous conversation, you might have told me. Did you go to the Mount Everest base camp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go there with some people. The very lowest one where you could still see Mount Everest. So I did go to that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How what altitude could that have been?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I traveled some because I came from the mountains. I was excited about the mountains there, but I was more excited about the different people. So I didn't go to some different tourist places, like a lot of Nepalis or like a lot of Peace Corps volunteers did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, I think it's they call it the base camp. I mean, I can't remember in a previous conversation, you might have told me. Did you go to the Mount Everest base camp?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go there with some people. The very lowest one where you could still see Mount Everest. So I did go to that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How what altitude could that have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember. OK, over ten anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten thousand. OK. OK, now we're moving on to the tenth question on this suggested list of interview questions. At the end of your tour, your time in Peace Corps, can you explain your sense of achievement or failure? Any pluses and minuses in your relations with the Nepalis or work with the people, the country, anything of that nature? How did you feel after your two years? Did you complete two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did go there with some people. The very lowest one where you could still see Mount Everest. So I did go to that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How what altitude could that have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember. OK, over ten anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ten thousand. OK. OK, now we're moving on to the tenth question on this suggested list of interview questions. At the end of your tour, your time in Peace Corps, can you explain your sense of achievement or failure? Any pluses and minuses in your relations with the Nepalis or work with the people, the country, anything of that nature? How did you feel after your two years? Did you complete two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, you know, I think, you know, a lot of, um, like a lot of volunteers, I think you kind of walk away feeling like you didn't get enough accomplished. And the main thing is, I think for me is being able to go into different little small villages and be very welcomed by people, even though I just kind of walked in with them. They may not know me, but I can remember saying, oh, do you have a baby in the house or something? And they thought I meant their baby calf because their animals were very, very important to them, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say more than their kids?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, you know, I think, you know, a lot of, um, like a lot of volunteers, I think you kind of walk away feeling like you didn't get enough accomplished. And the main thing is, I think for me is being able to go into different little small villages and be very welcomed by people, even though I just kind of walked in with them. They may not know me, but I can remember saying, oh, do you have a baby in the house or something? And they thought I meant their baby calf because their animals were very, very important to them, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you say more than their kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not necessarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the word that I said, you know, let me see your baba. And that meant, you know, their baby calf. And so that's my language wasn't very good. But I think their animals were very precious to them because that's what gave them food. And, you know, I think and I think dehydration was a severe and malnutrition was a serious problem for four children. And, you know, they had I remember going back up to a village one time, and I had been there a few months before and the mother had said that their baby had died, you know, and even the two or three year old that was there. So I did see several children that died when I saw them. And, you know, that was scary. It's very hard. It was very difficult. You know, I think Peace Corps is hard. I think it's not I don't think it was an easy job. I think a lot of people you don't have a lot of resources and, you know, the poverty is extreme."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. OK, what are your plans for the future? Or maybe let me rephrase it. What were your plans for the future when you finished your two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not necessarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the word that I said, you know, let me see your baba. And that meant, you know, their baby calf. And so that's my language wasn't very good. But I think their animals were very precious to them because that's what gave them food. And, you know, I think and I think dehydration was a severe and malnutrition was a serious problem for four children. And, you know, they had I remember going back up to a village one time, and I had been there a few months before and the mother had said that their baby had died, you know, and even the two or three year old that was there. So I did see several children that died when I saw them. And, you know, that was scary. It's very hard. It was very difficult. You know, I think Peace Corps is hard. I think it's not I don't think it was an easy job. I think a lot of people you don't have a lot of resources and, you know, the poverty is extreme."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. OK, what are your plans for the future? Or maybe let me rephrase it. What were your plans for the future when you finished your two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I definitely after I left, I was not a registered nurse at the time. And when I came home, I said, I'm getting my RN, because I loved seeing, you know, I mean, one thing that was very valuable to me there is seeing different things that I would see rashes on people or I would see the malnutrition. I would see things that I just said. You got to get you know, I have definitely a deeper interest in getting my nurse's degree. So as soon as I returned that I finished getting RN."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get your RN?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00015:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, I definitely after I left, I was not a registered nurse at the time. And when I came home, I said, I'm getting my RN, because I loved seeing, you know, I mean, one thing that was very valuable to me there is seeing different things that I would see rashes on people or I would see the malnutrition. I would see things that I just said. You got to get you know, I have definitely a deeper interest in getting my nurse's degree. So as soon as I returned that I finished getting RN."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get your RN?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Colorado."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, now we're moving on to the eleventh question. OK, overall, this is to evaluate your service. You know, remember, the Peace Corps has three goals. We'll start with the first one. How would you say your service was? And as far as were you able to provide technical assistance where requested and if not, your situation was it sounds more primitive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn’t do any technical assistance. Like I say, I wish I'd done more in gardening and raising chickens even though they had them. I think that as a health and nutrition provider, I could have spent more time in that area instead of just, you know, seeing sick children and telling them what they needed to do for those kids and how to treat diarrhea and how to build a latrine, that kind of thing. So that I wish I'd done more on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of latrines, to many of the families, you tried to teach, build latrines?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 26.477821000437963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's talk about the space race. As far as I'm concerned, I never was involved in the space race. Okay? Even when I got here with NASA, we were working all the time, working crazy hours and everything else, but I was never in any race to beat the Russians. That was going on beyond me. I was down on the worker-bee level, trying to get my job done, trying to support the launches and everything else. The whole space race thing you hear about in books and that's written up, that wasn't on my mind, you know. We were doing our thing and you were too busy to do anything else. It was like a seven-day-a-week job. It was like that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you joined NASA, did you pay much attention to the events that were going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, because I was at the Cape when Mercury was going on. Naturally, you get into that business and you're interested in what's going on. The reason I ended up going down there, I had made a conscious decision to leave the airplane business, to get into the missile business, see. That was a conscious decision at that time. So naturally I'd gotten interested and wrapped up with it, like everybody else in the country. It's not like when a Shuttle's launched today, you know, it may show up on CNN [Cable News Network]. But every time there was a launch, it was like the world was coming apart. It was completely different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you got into NASA, it was at the beginning of the Gemini Program. Mercury had ended."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was prior to Gemini beginning, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd mentioned there was still a nucleus of people with some experience from Mercury. What sort of people were there and how did they provide some experience to you coming in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.281260494367856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was prior to Gemini beginning, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd mentioned there was still a nucleus of people with some experience from Mercury. What sort of people were there and how did they provide some experience to you coming in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there were people around. I'll give you some names of people that you've probably already interviewed. [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.] was there, naturally, and I worked for [Eugene F.] Kranz. John [S.] Llewellyn [Jr.] was there. Let's see who else you might have interviewed as part of the whole thing. Glynn [S.] Lunney was there. Jerry [C.] Bostick came out at that period of time around I did. A lot of those people that were the early flight director people that were out there, they were around. Some of the people who had done capsule communicator work in Mercury, which was a complete different job because the spacecraft was so simple, they had moved into other areas. They were all gone. Chuck [Charles R.] Lewis was there, he was one of the people around still, and so on.\\n\\n But we really didn't really know too much about what we were doing. Everybody knew a little area of something and everybody kind of helped the other person learn the opposite areas. For example, I didn't know much about flight dynamics, so someone else would teach us flight dynamics and I would teach people operations or something. Not as a class, but kind of sharing information. That's the way the whole program evolved, actually, if you go back into it. I'm sure you find this true, same way over in engineering and everything else. There was no database to really get into. It was just a little bit of data there from Mercury and that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did either you or NASA have any idea what they were hiring you specifically for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was hired specifically to come into flight operations as capsule communicator. I was hired as a capsule communicator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they had some sort of definition of that job."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.0551282986945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a good guy. He's in Tampa [Florida]. That's how I learned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it seems to be as practical a way as any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wasn't an engineer. I wasn't an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself then sort of atypical, since, as you mentioned, they were hiring a lot of these people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think in those days, I think there was only three or four of us at JSC doing technical work that weren't engineers. I was an electronics technician of some kind of a title. I was hired as a GS-10 or something like that. It was only a few of us who later became an engineer by an act of Congress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an interesting way to go about it, I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.919911479869754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think in those days, I think there was only three or four of us at JSC doing technical work that weren't engineers. I was an electronics technician of some kind of a title. I was hired as a GS-10 or something like that. It was only a few of us who later became an engineer by an act of Congress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's an interesting way to go about it, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you read a schematic?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did that in some engineering as an undergrad."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 57.688790533188616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can you read a schematic?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did that in some engineering as an undergrad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can understand that, then. I didn't know how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can appreciate it. So aside from learning how to read schematics and coloring on them with crayons and such, what other types of training did you have to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 67.76393892986249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can understand that, then. I didn't know how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can appreciate it. So aside from learning how to read schematics and coloring on them with crayons and such, what other types of training did you have to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There at JSC?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was hardly any training available. There wasn't any training. You didn't go to classes and you didn't take this JSC indoctrination course that's given over there for flight operations. There was no such thing. The only training that really went on was the simulation training, which was very similar to what goes on right now, but you didn't sit in classes with workbooks and so on, because there basically was no such thing in flight ops in those days. You learned from everybody else, you know. Someone else, like I said, knew flight dynamics, orbital mechanics, and you learned it from them. I was going to do the retrofire and I had to have a good working knowledge on how it all worked and what I was doing.\\n\\n Then we worked as teams, you know, like your remote site team, you knew who that was ahead of time, and a lot of times you stayed with the same people, not completely, but your team had certain people and we used to work together. We'd sit down at night and go over a system, spend two, three hours just going over the environmental system, your systems guys and yourself, and they would teach you all the work and all the data that went behind that system, and how that system worked. You talked and you'd ask questions. \"What can we expect to see? What are we going to do?\" We'd go to the flight rules and work the flight rules along with it and the checklist procedures all together, and that's how we trained each other within the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of the systems guys, they each then specialized in a particular area of the spacecraft?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 74.18215436651387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There at JSC?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was hardly any training available. There wasn't any training. You didn't go to classes and you didn't take this JSC indoctrination course that's given over there for flight operations. There was no such thing. The only training that really went on was the simulation training, which was very similar to what goes on right now, but you didn't sit in classes with workbooks and so on, because there basically was no such thing in flight ops in those days. You learned from everybody else, you know. Someone else, like I said, knew flight dynamics, orbital mechanics, and you learned it from them. I was going to do the retrofire and I had to have a good working knowledge on how it all worked and what I was doing.\\n\\n Then we worked as teams, you know, like your remote site team, you knew who that was ahead of time, and a lot of times you stayed with the same people, not completely, but your team had certain people and we used to work together. We'd sit down at night and go over a system, spend two, three hours just going over the environmental system, your systems guys and yourself, and they would teach you all the work and all the data that went behind that system, and how that system worked. You talked and you'd ask questions. \"What can we expect to see? What are we going to do?\" We'd go to the flight rules and work the flight rules along with it and the checklist procedures all together, and that's how we trained each other within the team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in terms of the systems guys, they each then specialized in a particular area of the spacecraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they all came from a particular area of the spacecraft, but when they were assigned to a remote site, they worked the whole spacecraft. In other words, just like now there's an environmental area, and they came out of that, except there weren't so many areas because the vehicle was a lot smaller, you know. The Gemini spacecraft didn't have the complexity of Apollo or the Shuttle or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was their job to support you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 77.07178191310433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had no idea what was going on. It was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously you got around to several of the sites. How did the rotation process work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had no choice on that. That was kind of decided by Kranz. He would decide who was going where, for which mission functions. Every mission had different function things. He just would decide where you're going for that mission. If you got hauled back in the control center, that was because of whether they wanted to rotate you in there or whether you were being—we used to call it being punished, but I didn't have that happen to me till very late.\\n\\n Where else was I? I was at Hawaii a couple of times, which was really nice. We used to stay at a place called the Kauai Surf, which was a very nice hotel. We'd stay there. The tracking station was up on top of the hill, and we used to race down the mountain.\\n\\n I was at Canary Islands also. We used to race back and forth from there. That was down at the other end of the island.\\n\\n Where else was I? I don't think I left anything out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Gemini Program began with the network simulations before they actually went into missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you take us through these very beginnings of the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.82137013816025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a lot of things changed because now the control center had data coming in from the sites, real telemetry data. It wasn't this low-speed teletype message that said this is what it read when I hit the button. They had direct communication to the spacecraft when it was over that site. TDRS wasn't there yet, but when it was over that site. And they could send commands over that site, get telemetry and talk to the crew and so on, so the whole operation changed. The astronaut in Houston, he was the capcom, so he pretty well did the job, except on a couple of the unmanned flights and so on. We had a series of unmanned flights with Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What effect did the fire have on the way you guys operated in terms of mission operations, procedures, or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the fire stopped everything. It stopped the rush, because we couldn't proceed the way we were going. While the investigation was going on and the redesign and the rebuild, a whole new attitude was taken on the reviewing of what you were doing, the documentation, the philosophy behind the flight rules, things like that. The very same thing happened after Challenger. So it changed a lot of things on your mental being and how your documentation was written, the philosophies behind it, and how you were going to do things and what you were going to do in certain cases. But it took a lot of time to go back and do that; it just didn't happen in one day. It took a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned a couple of times moving in the assistant flight director position. I guess Apollo 7, being the first manned mission, was the first you served in that capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With this first operational experience as an assistant flight director, what did the job then involve for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.134855709066944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the fire stopped everything. It stopped the rush, because we couldn't proceed the way we were going. While the investigation was going on and the redesign and the rebuild, a whole new attitude was taken on the reviewing of what you were doing, the documentation, the philosophy behind the flight rules, things like that. The very same thing happened after Challenger. So it changed a lot of things on your mental being and how your documentation was written, the philosophies behind it, and how you were going to do things and what you were going to do in certain cases. But it took a lot of time to go back and do that; it just didn't happen in one day. It took a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've mentioned a couple of times moving in the assistant flight director position. I guess Apollo 7, being the first manned mission, was the first you served in that capacity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With this first operational experience as an assistant flight director, what did the job then involve for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the planning thing I was doing the flight rules and a lot of the checklist stuff and so on, and the flight ops panels and so on, and then during the mission I basically chased problems, followed the checklist, made sure the flight director was kept up to date on what was going on on my shift. I worked the shift. And you were kind of like a technical assistant to the flight director, you know, when he need something done or you could find something you wanted to do or needed to be done, you went off and did it on your own. Just chasing different problems, making sure things happened that should happen on time, those kinds of things. That's what I did. I did that for several missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they move you into that position, I guess, as a steppingstone to something else?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.705395232296603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With this first operational experience as an assistant flight director, what did the job then involve for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the planning thing I was doing the flight rules and a lot of the checklist stuff and so on, and the flight ops panels and so on, and then during the mission I basically chased problems, followed the checklist, made sure the flight director was kept up to date on what was going on on my shift. I worked the shift. And you were kind of like a technical assistant to the flight director, you know, when he need something done or you could find something you wanted to do or needed to be done, you went off and did it on your own. Just chasing different problems, making sure things happened that should happen on time, those kinds of things. That's what I did. I did that for several missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they move you into that position, I guess, as a steppingstone to something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Kranz thought it was a steppingstone up. Okay? I didn't quite feel the same way, but that's what he thought. And Kranz was the ultimate personnel guy. He never makes a mistake. That's sarcasm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be sure to note that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.561550258107335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the planning thing I was doing the flight rules and a lot of the checklist stuff and so on, and the flight ops panels and so on, and then during the mission I basically chased problems, followed the checklist, made sure the flight director was kept up to date on what was going on on my shift. I worked the shift. And you were kind of like a technical assistant to the flight director, you know, when he need something done or you could find something you wanted to do or needed to be done, you went off and did it on your own. Just chasing different problems, making sure things happened that should happen on time, those kinds of things. That's what I did. I did that for several missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they move you into that position, I guess, as a steppingstone to something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Kranz thought it was a steppingstone up. Okay? I didn't quite feel the same way, but that's what he thought. And Kranz was the ultimate personnel guy. He never makes a mistake. That's sarcasm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be sure to note that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His wife agrees with me. [Laughter] So do his kids. If you'd ever worked for him, you'd know what I was talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have, I guess, only you guys to tell us about these kinds of things."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.735055842341485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Kranz thought it was a steppingstone up. Okay? I didn't quite feel the same way, but that's what he thought. And Kranz was the ultimate personnel guy. He never makes a mistake. That's sarcasm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll be sure to note that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His wife agrees with me. [Laughter] So do his kids. If you'd ever worked for him, you'd know what I was talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have, I guess, only you guys to tell us about these kinds of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember anything else from that mission specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 35.261173158157206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His wife agrees with me. [Laughter] So do his kids. If you'd ever worked for him, you'd know what I was talking about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have, I guess, only you guys to tell us about these kinds of things."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember anything else from that mission specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seven?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know there were some issues between the crew and flight control."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.69284127138728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Coming off that mission you have Apollo 8, which was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't work Apollo 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about sending the second Apollo mission all the way around the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was very exciting. I thought it was really quite a challenge. We had looked at something else that you're probably not aware of. We had looked at possibly sending a Gemini spacecraft around the Moon at one time, with a highly classified mapping module, camera system, an Air Force tracking system on it. That had been looked at by several of us who were brought in to take a look at that, and that was tossed out. So the idea wasn't a new one, but it was whoever brought it up brought up a novel idea and it worked great. The guys that worked it did a great job. The crew did a great job. [Frank] Borman and his guys were great, you know. The crew that worked it on the ground did a tremendous job, Harold [M.] Draughan, the flight director, and a lot of those guys, and [Clifford E.] Charlesworth. Those guys did a great job, they really did, and it worked fine. It was quite a gamble. It was quite a gamble, and it really caught the attention of the world, boy, it really grabbed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people we talk to recall that as really one of the highlights of their career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 40.769823634874754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't work Apollo 8."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think about sending the second Apollo mission all the way around the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was very exciting. I thought it was really quite a challenge. We had looked at something else that you're probably not aware of. We had looked at possibly sending a Gemini spacecraft around the Moon at one time, with a highly classified mapping module, camera system, an Air Force tracking system on it. That had been looked at by several of us who were brought in to take a look at that, and that was tossed out. So the idea wasn't a new one, but it was whoever brought it up brought up a novel idea and it worked great. The guys that worked it did a great job. The crew did a great job. [Frank] Borman and his guys were great, you know. The crew that worked it on the ground did a tremendous job, Harold [M.] Draughan, the flight director, and a lot of those guys, and [Clifford E.] Charlesworth. Those guys did a great job, they really did, and it worked fine. It was quite a gamble. It was quite a gamble, and it really caught the attention of the world, boy, it really grabbed them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people we talk to recall that as really one of the highlights of their career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure was. Like I said, I didn't work that mission. I was working 9, so I didn't work that mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine obviously had a lot of technical challenges. We're here using the lunar module for the first time and in lunar orbit and all this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.365597683676654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was in INCO?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what happened was, Harley Weyer, who worked for me at that time, who is now retired, he went off and designed—got a hold of the documentation that showed antenna patterns on the antennas on the vehicle, and he sat down with the people down in Flight Support Division and their contractor, which at that time was IBM and so on, and they actually designed the antenna plot displays. So what happened was, for example, on that display you had the antennas and their plots and which antennas they were, and then the vehicle coordinates would come in and down in the system it would know where it should be pointing, which antenna you should be on or where you should be looking, and it would track it. If you go over there now, they have similar displays over there so you could manage your antennas, the onboard could manage it, or you could manage it with commands from the ground.\\n\\n We built displays. Different guys built displays for us that showed status of the vehicle that were strictly communications displays. They weren't intermixed with electrical and mechanical. We built all of our own stuff. We separated all our drawings out into separate areas. We built displays and things like that. Our guys got in there, because they were good at that. We kept a real strict configuration control on our systems so that we knew where we were and what we were doing.\\n\\n Then as the new systems came on, we were involved both with engineering and with factories in actually designing the systems, which have really helped us, what the crews saw, what the crew could do, what we could do, you know, because we're sharing. The communications we were operating from the ground, but the crew could also control it by switches. So you had to avoid conflict on what they were doing and what you were doing and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said for Apollo 11 then you guys weren't quite up to speed yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we were working, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that mission have any issues with the communications systems that you guys had to deal with particularly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 48.950170731420144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That originally was in Kranz's book, but it got cut out by the editor. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe it'll make it into the paperback."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, no. Don't tell me that. He's not going to put it in a paperback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You brought up some interesting points in there in terms of being in sort of this closed-off environment. You were speaking of this room specifically. But overall, how aware were you, while things were going on, while you were involved in the Apollo Program, of what was going on in the outside world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You weren't. I wasn't. Later on I was, on Apollo 15 I was, and I can tell you about why. But you just weren't. You were intense on what you were doing. You were locked up on your job, you know. It wasn't like where you fly a Shuttle flight, which I did later on, where, you know, you went to work and the thing kind of became a normal routine type of thing. But everything was an adventure. Everything was a challenge, because it was a steppingstone. Going to the Moon was a whole different thing. It wasn't like engineer, where you went up and went around, you know. You really were gone. And 13 brought the real reality of it all to you, you know. That's really what that amounted to.\\n\\n I always like to look at it as how much junk I ate to make some astronaut famous. [Laughter] Did you ever think about that? Those guys were sitting over there days and nights in this room, eating God knows what during their shifts, you know, whether it was a burrito out of some machine or it was something they had brought in a bag, forgot about, and ate it ten hours later and it was dry and crappy or what. Did you ever think about what some of the people in that room ate to make some astronaut famous? [Laughter] I've told that to certain astronaut friends of mine. I said, \"Do you have any idea what I have consumed to make you a hero?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 53.277967479355716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, God, no. Don't tell me that. He's not going to put it in a paperback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You brought up some interesting points in there in terms of being in sort of this closed-off environment. You were speaking of this room specifically. But overall, how aware were you, while things were going on, while you were involved in the Apollo Program, of what was going on in the outside world?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You weren't. I wasn't. Later on I was, on Apollo 15 I was, and I can tell you about why. But you just weren't. You were intense on what you were doing. You were locked up on your job, you know. It wasn't like where you fly a Shuttle flight, which I did later on, where, you know, you went to work and the thing kind of became a normal routine type of thing. But everything was an adventure. Everything was a challenge, because it was a steppingstone. Going to the Moon was a whole different thing. It wasn't like engineer, where you went up and went around, you know. You really were gone. And 13 brought the real reality of it all to you, you know. That's really what that amounted to.\\n\\n I always like to look at it as how much junk I ate to make some astronaut famous. [Laughter] Did you ever think about that? Those guys were sitting over there days and nights in this room, eating God knows what during their shifts, you know, whether it was a burrito out of some machine or it was something they had brought in a bag, forgot about, and ate it ten hours later and it was dry and crappy or what. Did you ever think about what some of the people in that room ate to make some astronaut famous? [Laughter] I've told that to certain astronaut friends of mine. I said, \"Do you have any idea what I have consumed to make you a hero?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Try eating cold beef in Australia for six straight days. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly made a lot of astronauts famous."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.19774164372857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You weren't. I wasn't. Later on I was, on Apollo 15 I was, and I can tell you about why. But you just weren't. You were intense on what you were doing. You were locked up on your job, you know. It wasn't like where you fly a Shuttle flight, which I did later on, where, you know, you went to work and the thing kind of became a normal routine type of thing. But everything was an adventure. Everything was a challenge, because it was a steppingstone. Going to the Moon was a whole different thing. It wasn't like engineer, where you went up and went around, you know. You really were gone. And 13 brought the real reality of it all to you, you know. That's really what that amounted to.\\n\\n I always like to look at it as how much junk I ate to make some astronaut famous. [Laughter] Did you ever think about that? Those guys were sitting over there days and nights in this room, eating God knows what during their shifts, you know, whether it was a burrito out of some machine or it was something they had brought in a bag, forgot about, and ate it ten hours later and it was dry and crappy or what. Did you ever think about what some of the people in that room ate to make some astronaut famous? [Laughter] I've told that to certain astronaut friends of mine. I said, \"Do you have any idea what I have consumed to make you a hero?\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure they appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Try eating cold beef in Australia for six straight days. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly made a lot of astronauts famous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the, I guess, more colorful astronauts were on the next flight, Apollo 12, where you had Pete [Charles C.] Conrad [Jr.]."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 65.77526849303175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Try eating cold beef in Australia for six straight days. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly made a lot of astronauts famous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the, I guess, more colorful astronauts were on the next flight, Apollo 12, where you had Pete [Charles C.] Conrad [Jr.]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, that was a colorful group. That was really a colorful group. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any stories or particular memories of them or that mission that you'd like to share?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 37.56853715207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The onboard crews?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what they're going to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess from your Skylab experience, in terms of controlling crew activities and that kind of thing—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the things that came out of there, if people go back and think about it, was the crew would like some time off. They're trying to incorporate that in the time lines and so on. Well, understand that every time you put someone up there and he doesn't do anything, it's kind of like an American Airlines airplane sitting on the ground not flying. That's the way I like to look at it. If you take an airline, their idea is to keep that plane in the air as much as you can to make money. If that astronaut is not working and he's supposed to be trying to run experiments and so on, that's lost money, to me. That's the way I look at it. Now, hopefully they can work around that and do that, but it's going to be tough. Going to be very difficult. Going to be some real challenges in that whole personnel area, both on ground and on board. It's going to be difficult.\\n\\n The part of it now where you're putting it together, that's fine. You send the Shuttle crew up, they stay a week, put stuff together and so on, but it's going to be constant, because you've got to service this thing. It's not going to just sit there and bore holes. You're going to have to work on it. It's going to be a difficult task, going to be very, very challenging. But it's also going to be boring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moving on from Skylab, you had the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project [ASTP] flight. I understand you worked on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really feel good about that. That's something I really feel good about, and it's good to see these guys doing real well. Some have done very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it? We're all done?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all the questions I have, but I did want to give Rob and Carol an opportunity to ask any if they had some.\n\nI just have a couple. You were talking about the Shuttle antennas and so on, and it just occurred to me we were having transmission difficulty this week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the K-band?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lost some of the broadband ability. Could you give us a quick layman's overview of what that means?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00165:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.63, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's it? We're all done?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's all the questions I have, but I did want to give Rob and Carol an opportunity to ask any if they had some.\n\nI just have a couple. You were talking about the Shuttle antennas and so on, and it just occurred to me we were having transmission difficulty this week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the K-band?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lost some of the broadband ability. Could you give us a quick layman's overview of what that means?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me give you a little history of the K-band to start with. You want to hear that first?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That'd be great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.870789461511418, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, it goes beyond. It's not just Russians. It's Japanese. It's Europeans. I mean, basically, an open mind and tolerance is pretty much the name of the game. \"Do not be too quick to judge\" is certainly the first thing you have to advise. And you have to learn to swallow something that is to you almost surely unpleasant, but smile, nonetheless, while you're swallowing it. That's a metaphor, but actually when you go and eat another country's food, sometimes you'll be asked to try some foods that you really don't want to eat at all. But you've got to eat it and smile while you do it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't bring those recipes back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't bring them home. I'm thinking of the little fish with the eye staring up at you out of the jelly for breakfast. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For breakfast? How was the smell, along with the taste?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. It's in a little can, kind of wobbles there, and the little fish stare at you. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any foods that you liked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.30087717945713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't bring them home. I'm thinking of the little fish with the eye staring up at you out of the jelly for breakfast. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For breakfast? How was the smell, along with the taste?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. It's in a little can, kind of wobbles there, and the little fish stare at you. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any foods that you liked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there's lots of foods. You can by, at least. I've never been big on caviar either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think I'm going to be too keen on tuna fish anymore now that I think about it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.000974643841257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. It's in a little can, kind of wobbles there, and the little fish stare at you. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find any foods that you liked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there's lots of foods. You can by, at least. I've never been big on caviar either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think I'm going to be too keen on tuna fish anymore now that I think about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But vodka is now my favorite drink, my drink of choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to enjoy that while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.001082937601396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, there's lots of foods. You can by, at least. I've never been big on caviar either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think I'm going to be too keen on tuna fish anymore now that I think about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But vodka is now my favorite drink, my drink of choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to enjoy that while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on Mir, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not on Mir, but while you in Russia with your friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 33.33453659733488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But vodka is now my favorite drink, my drink of choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to enjoy that while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not on Mir, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not on Mir, but while you in Russia with your friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, a few times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The social aspect of that culture, is that something that you enjoyed being a part of, or is it something that's done a lot, or they save special occasions for special events? Tell us about those times when you were with your Russian friends."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.46888675100576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's a different situation. That is quite different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No barriers there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there are barriers. There are definitely barriers of command and control. My boss is a different boss. The objectives of my program are different from their objectives. They overlap, of course. But more important than anything else, we all know as a crew on board the station -and I've seen this reflected by every long-duration crew member coming back -is that no matter how much we are different in our characters, how we wouldn't naturally get together in a bar or seek each other out on Earth, in space we are terribly respective of each other's privacy and very careful to not cause friction. I was truly impressed how everyone behaved very carefully not to irritate each other and not to offend. No one ever willingly offended, as far as I know. Yet those same people are much less careful on Earth, including myself. The space flight actually, because of the severity of the situation, forces a behavior change that is actually more civilized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's the good news then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is good news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The handover time is extremely brief compared to the time that you're up there. Did you receive any special advice from Jerry [M.] Linenger before the hatch closed and you were there? And did you have any special words for Dave Wolf as you let him and came back home?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.6320963900064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, there are barriers. There are definitely barriers of command and control. My boss is a different boss. The objectives of my program are different from their objectives. They overlap, of course. But more important than anything else, we all know as a crew on board the station -and I've seen this reflected by every long-duration crew member coming back -is that no matter how much we are different in our characters, how we wouldn't naturally get together in a bar or seek each other out on Earth, in space we are terribly respective of each other's privacy and very careful to not cause friction. I was truly impressed how everyone behaved very carefully not to irritate each other and not to offend. No one ever willingly offended, as far as I know. Yet those same people are much less careful on Earth, including myself. The space flight actually, because of the severity of the situation, forces a behavior change that is actually more civilized."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's the good news then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is good news."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The handover time is extremely brief compared to the time that you're up there. Did you receive any special advice from Jerry [M.] Linenger before the hatch closed and you were there? And did you have any special words for Dave Wolf as you let him and came back home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you interviewed Jerry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 33.49641529630419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you interviewed Jerry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, not yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you going to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're trying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I'll leave it to Jerry to say what he told me. But for Dave, I was most concerned that he would come into a situation, living on the station, with false expectations. As I say, I believe most astronauts, in fact, most people working in the space program, once they're told if it's difficult or not, they can think about it, prepare for it, and deal with it successfully. But if you expect to go to a Hilton and you find a little roach motel, you are pretty fed up and angry.\\n\\n So I wanted to make sure that Dave Wolf understood that he was going to get into something pretty hard and pretty dirty, in terms of cleaning up water and moving equipment around, just doing a grungy job. So I sent a letter or two, actually to the one who he replaced, to Wendy [Lawrence], first. Then I had Wendy tell Dave what I had told her about what the conditions were like on Mir.\\n\\n But the overall tone of my letter was that, \"Though there was a lot of work to be done here that's hard, I still believe the operational lessons that we are going to gain at NASA working with the Russians and seeing how they operate a station that's been in space for eleven years are truly worthwhile. And for that reason, I recommend that the program send you. And, Dave, personally, I believe you'll get a lot out of it, in terms of personal award, in getting through this whole thing. However, day by day you may not think it's so easy or so pleasant.\"\\n\\n I think he'll second that that's the overall impression you get. You're very glad you've done it, but it's like getting ready to jump into ice cold water. When you're out of the water you go, \"Yeah, that was great!\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That first step. Do you remember your thoughts the first time that you saw the Mir from afar as you were approaching it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.956889645334847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. [Laughter] But I had to say, as I saw the Mir going away, and we were doing a tremendous fly-around, it looked fantastic. I mean, all the guys around me were getting so excited about how great the Mir looked. It is truly a paragon, it's an ultimate in space flight experience to see such a big thing and fly around it. I was going, \"Yes, we're getting away from that thing!\" [Laughter] I honestly said, \"I don't care if I never see it again.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think anybody hearing you say that can understand why you felt that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you right now, I laugh because I did say that to myself. I thought, \"You know, it looks great, but I don't care if I never see it again.\" [Laughter] But if they asked me today to go back and do a short mission for a month or two there, I'd go. I would do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like why women have more babies after the first one, right? You forget how bad it was. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true, yes. Somewhere along we get smarter. The memory starts to get better. [Laughter] Or the kids get older, then there's other reasons why you have -"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.840988494816497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you right now, I laugh because I did say that to myself. I thought, \"You know, it looks great, but I don't care if I never see it again.\" [Laughter] But if they asked me today to go back and do a short mission for a month or two there, I'd go. I would do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like why women have more babies after the first one, right? You forget how bad it was. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true, yes. Somewhere along we get smarter. The memory starts to get better. [Laughter] Or the kids get older, then there's other reasons why you have -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting, generally cosmonauts say the same thing. When they come back, when they're getting ready to come home, they say, \"Never again. I will never sign up for this ever again.\" [Laughter] Then within a few, six months, they're going, \"Oh, yeah, it was so great. Times were good. Didn't have any paperwork.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you're scheduled for STS-104."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.93443166090722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like why women have more babies after the first one, right? You forget how bad it was. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true, yes. Somewhere along we get smarter. The memory starts to get better. [Laughter] Or the kids get older, then there's other reasons why you have -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting, generally cosmonauts say the same thing. When they come back, when they're getting ready to come home, they say, \"Never again. I will never sign up for this ever again.\" [Laughter] Then within a few, six months, they're going, \"Oh, yeah, it was so great. Times were good. Didn't have any paperwork.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you're scheduled for STS-104."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the Hubble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a record number of six space walks are scheduled to be conducted."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.37159073434135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was interesting, generally cosmonauts say the same thing. When they come back, when they're getting ready to come home, they say, \"Never again. I will never sign up for this ever again.\" [Laughter] Then within a few, six months, they're going, \"Oh, yeah, it was so great. Times were good. Didn't have any paperwork.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you're scheduled for STS-104."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the Hubble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a record number of six space walks are scheduled to be conducted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel the time that you spent on Mir and the experiences that you got there are going to be able to help you do what you need to do on this future mission? I know we've talked about the space walk that you did and working with people in space. I didn't know if there was any connection of the learning experiences there that you can take with you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.163830700000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'd love to get to the moon. There's a chance, if I don't get too gray, we could get back to the moon in about 2003 2004, if we do a verification of TransHab on the lunar surface. TransHab's the habitation module that we want to put up. It's an inflated structure on the station. But it's also the core of a vehicle that we think should go eventually to Mars and be the Mars vehicle there. But we would test it out and its life support systems on the moon, and potentially put crew members in it for six months in lunar orbit, which is pretty far away from the Earth, in lunar orbit for six months and then land them on the moon and see what all the medical problems, etc., of landing did. It's only a six G, not a third G, which is what Mars is. But that's kind of the idea going around at the moment.\\n\\n If all that demonstration works well, then go shoot for Mars in about two years after that. The ideas that Mr. Abbey has, Mr. [Daniel] Goldin has, the budget plans envisage asking money for that in about the next year. First significant money for that is the next year. It builds up to a lunar landing in about, as I say, about 2003, 2005. Then a Mars mission maybe five years after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does this meet with your expectations of what you wanted to accomplish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to go to the moon. I'd like to go to Mars, but I've said in other places, right now I'd only do that if my kids were grown up and my wife could go with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good plan. Was this part of your plans when you originally wanted to become an astronaut, to venture as far as to the moon and Mars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, totally, yes. I thought I'd have done it by now. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're a little closer. So I guess that's what we'll keep working for."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.070923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would like to go to the moon. I'd like to go to Mars, but I've said in other places, right now I'd only do that if my kids were grown up and my wife could go with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a good plan. Was this part of your plans when you originally wanted to become an astronaut, to venture as far as to the moon and Mars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, totally, yes. I thought I'd have done it by now. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're a little closer. So I guess that's what we'll keep working for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought we'd all have done it by now. I remember I wrote a plan to myself as to how it was all going to go when I was about eighteen or nineteen. I thought sure we'd be going to Mars about now, yes. That when we were thinking that Shuttle was going to launch once every two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe with all the cooperative efforts we'll be able to help each other."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.745469999999997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, totally, yes. I thought I'd have done it by now. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we're a little closer. So I guess that's what we'll keep working for."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought we'd all have done it by now. I remember I wrote a plan to myself as to how it was all going to go when I was about eighteen or nineteen. I thought sure we'd be going to Mars about now, yes. That when we were thinking that Shuttle was going to launch once every two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe with all the cooperative efforts we'll be able to help each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's much harder than that. Space flight is hard. You have to remember that a rifle that shoots a bullet at mach two, like an M-16, is a pretty good rifle, pretty good gun. It has a high technology in the explosive charge driving that bullet. The Space Shuttle goes twelve times faster than that and it's a hundred tons. You then have to deal with the fact that you have all the radiation up there, you're isolated, you have no materials. This is a difficult thing we're doing.\\n\\n It's because of that energy, specifically that energy of going up to twelve times the speed of an M-16 bullet, that really makes this thing both dangerous and so expensive. It's just to keep putting that much extra speed into it, with the same object, again and again and again in a short time, which is what liftoff is, is a very risky business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But we certainly have people wanting to become part of the program. So the desire to be part of this program still lives on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, unfortunately. I was very privileged, very, very lucky to be on the Mir during that EVA, because I had a pretty easy job once I was out there managing this crane for Anatoly. I could easy for twenty minutes at a time -no, I guess my kind of check cycle was like five minutes. Every five minutes, I think, \"Am I screwing something up?\" [Laughter] Then I'd go back to really enjoying the moment. I don't ever expect to be able to have that luxury again. I was very lucky to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure your experiences will be many in the next few months, few years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll start training when, for your next flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've already started the Hubble, actually. I've already done a series of NBL runs here in the tank with the crew that were named. We went up to Goddard last two weeks ago. We were in bunny suits running all over the hardware for about three days. Then we have a whole bunch of NBL runs here coming up in September for a whole month, actually. Yes, I'm going to be quite tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gets you out of the office."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'll start training when, for your next flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've already started the Hubble, actually. I've already done a series of NBL runs here in the tank with the crew that were named. We went up to Goddard last two weeks ago. We were in bunny suits running all over the hardware for about three days. Then we have a whole bunch of NBL runs here coming up in September for a whole month, actually. Yes, I'm going to be quite tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gets you out of the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's good stuff, yes. Again, actually, I'll tell you one thing, I used to think [unclear] runs and the suit runs here were hard. I don't think they're hard anymore. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do have experiences from that stuff."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've already started the Hubble, actually. I've already done a series of NBL runs here in the tank with the crew that were named. We went up to Goddard last two weeks ago. We were in bunny suits running all over the hardware for about three days. Then we have a whole bunch of NBL runs here coming up in September for a whole month, actually. Yes, I'm going to be quite tired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It gets you out of the office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's good stuff, yes. Again, actually, I'll tell you one thing, I used to think [unclear] runs and the suit runs here were hard. I don't think they're hard anymore. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do have experiences from that stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because compared to the Orlon, which is the Russian suit, compared to the Russian hydrolab training in their tank, our training is really easy. [Laughter] This has something to do with the difference in pressures of the suits, and to do with the quality of the training hardware. After a two-and-a-half-hour run in Star City, I couldn't do anything afterwards. I was so tired, just totally exhausted.\\n\\n After five- or six-hour run in the suit here -and I'd never done one before until just about two months ago; I used to be really apprehensive about it -it was not a big deal, not compared to their Orlon. So I've already seen the biggest highest hill, and I'm going downhill now. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That makes the trip a little easier."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00790:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's good stuff, yes. Again, actually, I'll tell you one thing, I used to think [unclear] runs and the suit runs here were hard. I don't think they're hard anymore. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do have experiences from that stuff."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because compared to the Orlon, which is the Russian suit, compared to the Russian hydrolab training in their tank, our training is really easy. [Laughter] This has something to do with the difference in pressures of the suits, and to do with the quality of the training hardware. After a two-and-a-half-hour run in Star City, I couldn't do anything afterwards. I was so tired, just totally exhausted.\\n\\n After five- or six-hour run in the suit here -and I'd never done one before until just about two months ago; I used to be really apprehensive about it -it was not a big deal, not compared to their Orlon. So I've already seen the biggest highest hill, and I'm going downhill now. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. That makes the trip a little easier."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thanks again. We don't want to hold you up. We know we have a busy schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 54.47435668560746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was all right. Yes. I was right on the break point. The people who were further out were told to stay, and the people who were closer in than I were told to come back to Houston and get back to work. There were three of us there. “You guys in Hawaii take your choice.” One guy had a daughter graduating from high school, and the other two of us stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re at a stopping point. Before we move on, I was going to ask Jennifer or Sandra if they had any questions for you about the time frame that we were talking about, or if you have anything else you want to add about the work that you did in the recovery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought of a few things last night, but I don’t think any of them are really significant, but [I’d] have to go back and try to piece in [things]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did want to say—and I forgot to ask my wife—when I told you that George Cox and I went to New York to be on a TV show. I said it was I’ve Got a Secret, [and that was correct]. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you’d like, we can stop and pick up when you come back, about the meeting that you were involved in about the beginning of the Shuttle operations, or we can start on that now and take a break when you’re ready to go. So you tell us what you’d like to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.415951872897175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought of a few things last night, but I don’t think any of them are really significant, but [I’d] have to go back and try to piece in [things]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did want to say—and I forgot to ask my wife—when I told you that George Cox and I went to New York to be on a TV show. I said it was I’ve Got a Secret, [and that was correct]. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you’d like, we can stop and pick up when you come back, about the meeting that you were involved in about the beginning of the Shuttle operations, or we can start on that now and take a break when you’re ready to go. So you tell us what you’d like to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don’t we talk about the period of time that I was on Kraft’s staff, which was about two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s do that. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 41, "return_to_go": 66.01772430321908, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did want to say—and I forgot to ask my wife—when I told you that George Cox and I went to New York to be on a TV show. I said it was I’ve Got a Secret, [and that was correct]. …"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you’d like, we can stop and pick up when you come back, about the meeting that you were involved in about the beginning of the Shuttle operations, or we can start on that now and take a break when you’re ready to go. So you tell us what you’d like to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don’t we talk about the period of time that I was on Kraft’s staff, which was about two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s do that. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s not going to take long, because it was all pretty much routine stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can give us some insight about working with Dr. Kraft."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.55484991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For the first Shuttle launch, for whatever reason, I was down at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] and had a blockhouse position, where I could monitor the countdown. I and one of the people who worked for me, named Neil [A.] Townsend, who was our Test Office Manager, were there to just monitor the countdown from the standpoint of the main propulsion system, because that was the thing that was going to be—you know, it was the first time we were flying this system with these three engines. So we were there for that.\\n\\n But we also agreed that when they got down to minus three minutes, that there wasn’t really anything that there was going to be any kind of judgment calls made on. So we beat it up to the roof of the blockhouse, so we were able to be on the roof and watch it about as close as you could get. That was really quite a rewarding experience, to see that launch close up, fairly close. I don’t know how far away we were, probably a couple of miles, but it was still close enough that you felt everything shaking when those solid-rocket boosters [and main engines] were building up to full thrust."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In many, many years before that, you had talked to the astronauts after they had landed. Did you talk to John [W.] Young as well and find out how the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I didn’t. It was not anything that my role put me in position that I should do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ones after. You didn’t retire till ’83?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to see a number of missions launch."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.6164999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I didn’t. It was not anything that my role put me in position that I should do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the ones after. You didn’t retire till ’83?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to see a number of missions launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us maybe how some of your early discussions about payloads and your early discussions about designs, how after those missions returned, you saw that work actually had come into reality and how well those discussions had worked."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 21.796111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were able to see a number of missions launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you share with us maybe how some of your early discussions about payloads and your early discussions about designs, how after those missions returned, you saw that work actually had come into reality and how well those discussions had worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was no longer concerned with payloads at all at that point. In fact, for the last three years, I was very much focused on the manufacturing and acceptance testing and getting that whole process running and keeping it running so that we had a stable environment budget-wise and so that we kept on schedule and got those things delivered as they were supposed to be. That’s what I concentrated on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you left, where were you in that progression? You said\\n\\n Columbia\\n\\n , of course, had launched and\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n had been delivered."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00343:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I would repeat, the ten years or so from ’59 to ’69 were very rewarding, and I was well satisfied with what I was able to contribute there and really pleased to have worked with a team of people who were so dedicated and so hard-driving and so constructive in their approach to the endeavor. It was really the kind of experience I think very few people get to have in their lifetime.\\n\\n The other period that I found really satisfying was the last three years, when I was the Manager of Manufacturing and Test, because I think we really got some things—we kind of got the trolley on the tracks and kept it there and got the manufacturing operation—I won’t say straightened out, because it certainly wasn’t broken to begin with, but we were able to establish an environment between NASA and the contractor where there was less finger-pointing and more “Let’s get this thing done. Let’s anticipate problems. Let’s realize that everybody is well served if we get these things manufactured and get them out on time, and if we can save some money while we’re doing it, let’s do that.” Of course, as you save time, you do save money.\\n\\n I was very gratified with that, and again, the people working for me directly here at NASA were a really great bunch of people, and I really enjoyed working with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we close today, I was going to ask and see if anybody had any other questions and if there [were] any areas that you thought of, or if you wanted to take a look at your notes that you made, something that we might have passed by too quickly that you can think of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll probably think of that in a week, if there is such a thing. And I did have the right name of the TV show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Are there any other anecdotes you can think of or good moments that you want to share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly thank you for taking time on your first trip back in a long time to spend so much time with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 24.536965748565855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have one really important change to make at a certain time. Shortly after we chose our prime contractor they said, “Okay, the budget has to go up a lot.” And it became immediately obvious that we couldn’t afford everything we had been asking for. Even before we selected them, we said, “Well, we can’t afford the eight-meter design. We are going to make a 6.5-meter telescope, please.”\\n\\n We got far enough with the technology development for the mirrors to say, “We could never afford the time and the money to build all the big mirror that you said. And besides, it won’t fit anyway. The rocket’s only so big, and it’s a really snug fit.” Maybe we could have made it fit, but it sure is snug. Another thing about the mirror technology—it turns out to be heavier than we thought. If the mirrors are heavier, you can’t have as many.\\n\\n Anyway, that’s all the process we had to go through. The science team was deeply involved in all of these discussions about “What’s the real requirement?” But ever since 2002, where we said what the real requirement was and who the players are, we basically haven’t had to change anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an achievement in itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a major achievement. It means that what we said we would do, we could do. But the flipside of it is, it was a whole lot more expensive than we expected."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere along that path that you thought you might lose the project because of the expense or the budget?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was obvious that you could lose it, but I thought, “I am not going to think about that part. I am just going to do my best.” That’s what we all did. You just can’t focus on the bad part. You have to focus on the opportunity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seem to have had the support, though, from the NASA Administrator."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.006783770370125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have many project engineers, but my nearest counterpart is the systems engineer. His office is right next door, Mike [Michael P.] Menzel, and he is brilliant. He is just a wonderful guy to work with. He understands what you say and why you mean it, and he knows how to accomplish what you want. And he knows how to exert himself in the team to make good things happen.\\n\\n Of course there is not just one systems engineer, there are many. Each subsystem has its own systems engineer and managers. A typical engineering team has a manager and a systems engineer at the top, then they make sure all of the people that report to them have done the right technical work, and have gotten it done on budget and schedule. That’s what that team does.\\n\\n Our job as scientists is to hand our science job on to their manager and the systems engineer, and say, “Please build this, please.” When they fully understand the job, that’s what they do. We like to participate in their discussions to make sure that they do understand, but they understand. It’s very rare for a scientist to come up and say, “Well, I have a better idea about how to do your engineering job.” The engineers are really good at what they do, and very rare for a scientist to have a better idea. Once in a while, we have something to contribute, which is something nobody has ever done before, and I’m happy when we can do that. But mostly, it’s scientists cheering on the engineers and checking that their work is what we meant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you have a project manager that oversees it all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And relays to Center management, and then on to Headquarters as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Bill Ochs, his office is down the hall. Have you interviewed him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I have not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.563093078189029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And relays to Center management, and then on to Headquarters as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Bill Ochs, his office is down the hall. Have you interviewed him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I have not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then you will want to do that sometime. Right now, he is really busy. In fact, I think that’s true until we’re done, because he is the focal point for everything about success. So I am cautious about asking for his time. I don’t want to take his time. I don’t need my hand held, I just want to know that he has got what he needs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you are going to be pretty busy. Are you shifting gears now as you are getting closer to launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.66658468381542, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Since the telescope has to be clean, you open it up in a cleanroom, which we didn’t have. So around the front door of the tank, we put a room with clean air, and the process for doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been down there? I know that you are going in a couple of weeks, but have you been down there already to see it so far?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just briefly, I was there last week. We had a visitor, [Congressmen] Brian Babin and Randy [Randall K.] Weber, whose districts are right there [in southeast Texas]. So yes, I went for that, and I have a phone message about “Brian Babin just came in this afternoon,” so he is interested. He is clearly very interested in the Webb Telescope, and in NASA. Glad to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s always good to have a champion somewhere on the [Capitol] Hill to keep it going. When you were developing those new technologies, we always use the expression that they are “state of the art.” As you have been working on these, do you feel like the technologies that you developed and designed so many years ago are still the ones that you need to go where you are going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you always have that fear that something better is going to come along?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.407316315350467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just briefly, I was there last week. We had a visitor, [Congressmen] Brian Babin and Randy [Randall K.] Weber, whose districts are right there [in southeast Texas]. So yes, I went for that, and I have a phone message about “Brian Babin just came in this afternoon,” so he is interested. He is clearly very interested in the Webb Telescope, and in NASA. Glad to see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s always good to have a champion somewhere on the [Capitol] Hill to keep it going. When you were developing those new technologies, we always use the expression that they are “state of the art.” As you have been working on these, do you feel like the technologies that you developed and designed so many years ago are still the ones that you need to go where you are going?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you always have that fear that something better is going to come along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happens in other parts of the world, where there’s other customers—if you want a better computer processor, somebody else always wants one too. So if you wait, one is going to happen. In our world, there is nobody else that wants what we want, so there is no other, better one anywhere.\\n\\n There is one small area where better ones—or bigger ones anyway—are coming along, and that’s the infrared detectors. There is a new generation currently in progress that’s got a larger format, more megapixels. I don’t think it’s more sensitive, so we really didn’t have to have it. We are getting just about as good a result as we would have gotten if we could have had the new generation. That’s the only one that I am aware of where progress has continued after we stopped developing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the project living up to the expectations you wanted it to when you started 20 years ago?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00856:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.23035146150052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you always have that fear that something better is going to come along?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That happens in other parts of the world, where there’s other customers—if you want a better computer processor, somebody else always wants one too. So if you wait, one is going to happen. In our world, there is nobody else that wants what we want, so there is no other, better one anywhere.\\n\\n There is one small area where better ones—or bigger ones anyway—are coming along, and that’s the infrared detectors. There is a new generation currently in progress that’s got a larger format, more megapixels. I don’t think it’s more sensitive, so we really didn’t have to have it. We are getting just about as good a result as we would have gotten if we could have had the new generation. That’s the only one that I am aware of where progress has continued after we stopped developing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the project living up to the expectations you wanted it to when you started 20 years ago?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it really is. I had no idea how hard this was going to be, nobody really did. But it was really clear to me that this was the next great opportunity, so it didn’t take me five seconds to say yes, that’s what I wanted to work on when I was given the shot. So yes, it’s what I want. And I am sure we’re going to discover something amazing. I just don’t know what it is yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that was going to be my next question. A lot of people have lots of speculation of what you feel like it’s going to be able to do, but I was curious if there is something you really want it to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00362:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 109.66297286886842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know your schedule is busy. I thought we’d begin today by asking about your interest in science as a child."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the interesting things that I remember, it probably stands out. When I family moved from Minnesota to California, my dad was following the jobs right after the Korean War. On the way, we drove and went through the Badlands in South Dakota, through Yellowstone, et cetera. I started collecting rocks the whole way. I think my life was preordained from that moment. I was going to be a geologist. I didn’t know that at that time, but it’s a funny story. I did that as a 12 year old, and then in high school I remember in the senior English class we had to write a paper on a career. One of the term papers was on a career. You go to the library, you look through all these pamphlets. I saw a pamphlet on geology. I said, “Hm.” Opened it up. Here’s a guy riding horseback through the mountains. I thought, “Ah, that’s cool.” So I wrote it about that.\\n\\n Then I got a scholarship to Stanford [University, Stanford, California], and I was sitting in an auditorium. They were telling all us freshmen that you can choose a major now, or you can become general studies, or it’s up to you. If you have a major, go ahead, and declare it. You can always change. So I thought, “Hm.” I wrote geology in there. I’ve been a geologist ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It just kind of stuck."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never anticipated going on for a PhD. I just wound up going that way. The concept of research really interested me, and geology fascinated me. So that’s where I wound up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any focus that you were particularly interested in once you started graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00362:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 59.077180315075594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wish I knew where that recording was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was another question for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember this very well. In fact, we have a movie of this. There is a 16-millimeter movie of this activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, is there? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I recently worked with the video people here at JSC, and I got digitized versions of all these movies that were taken in the LRL. Fifteen missions had quite a number of these videos. Sixteen had only four. Seventeen they only did one. I guess even the videographers were losing interest. Unless Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth was coming over, or Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft was coming over to look at the samples, the video people weren’t interested—or I guess they were movies at that time. They weren’t videos. They were 16-millimeter movies. They weren’t interested unless there was a big shot coming over, I guess. I don’t say that in a derogatory way. That’s just the way things are.\\n\\n But yes, that’s Jim [James W.] Head there in the picture with me. I guess you got the names her somewhere. That’s Dave and Jim. I was recording their comments. I’m sure what I did is I gave that tape to Gordy Swann for the field geology team to work with. I never got it back. Now that I’ve got the movie, I would love to be able to tie the silent movie to that tape because that would have been possible. But I’ve never been able to locate [it]. The USGS doesn’t know where the—if they have the tape, they don’t know where it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a shame."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.33256264412422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, when they landed at Edwards they didn’t land on a lake bed. They landed on the hard runway. It was the first landing on a 15,000-foot runway. I guess we passed along to them that we knew enough about what the Shuttle does when it gets near the ground. You can probably get it stopped in 15,000 feet. You pretty well know where it’s going to land. We got better and better on that as we went through the first, second and third flights. So other than that I don’t recall. There were probably some things that we discussed but good grief, it’s been 35 years or more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Been a while. I did have a question about the launch. I was reading that you flew a different launch pattern than the other first two flights. Do you have any recollection of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t know how that was different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that we hit all the highlights of the mission but I did have some other questions for you about some of the earlier material you had talked about. Would you mind if we went back and talked about some of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other assignments that I saw that you had worked on were software issues besides those crew displays that you had talked about. Were you working with SAIL or FSL [Flight System Laboratory]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.258402937915804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t know how that was different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that we hit all the highlights of the mission but I did have some other questions for you about some of the earlier material you had talked about. Would you mind if we went back and talked about some of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other assignments that I saw that you had worked on were software issues besides those crew displays that you had talked about. Were you working with SAIL or FSL [Flight System Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had little interaction with the SAIL except for an unsuccessful attempt to understand how the STS-3 software for an automatic approach system was implemented. I had a little bit to do with software development when it concerned some of the video displays, the CRT [cathode-ray tube] displays, especially that had to do with the experiments that we were flying. The ones in the back of the bus were primarily put on by Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]. We had to interface with them. Before the mission, when I realized what they were going to be and that there hadn’t been much work done on the displays for operating those experiments I got the principal investigators together up at Goddard. We went up and took a look at their stuff. This is where their experimental equipment, the flight hardware, was being tested before it’d be sent to the Cape.\\n\\n We went through the flight plan and found out what it was they wanted to do and made sure the displays were compatible. They effectively had not done much with displays at all. That’s what cued us when we started looking at their displays down here in Houston. They were unsatisfactory for doing the real mission. We went up there and ironed all that out with several of the experiments that were in the cargo bay. OSS [Office of Space Science]-1 was one of them; Goddard was responsible for the test, evaluation, and preparation of most of the cargo bay experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This included Getaway Specials [GAS]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 32.509336597684225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other assignments that I saw that you had worked on were software issues besides those crew displays that you had talked about. Were you working with SAIL or FSL [Flight System Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had little interaction with the SAIL except for an unsuccessful attempt to understand how the STS-3 software for an automatic approach system was implemented. I had a little bit to do with software development when it concerned some of the video displays, the CRT [cathode-ray tube] displays, especially that had to do with the experiments that we were flying. The ones in the back of the bus were primarily put on by Goddard [Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland]. We had to interface with them. Before the mission, when I realized what they were going to be and that there hadn’t been much work done on the displays for operating those experiments I got the principal investigators together up at Goddard. We went up and took a look at their stuff. This is where their experimental equipment, the flight hardware, was being tested before it’d be sent to the Cape.\\n\\n We went through the flight plan and found out what it was they wanted to do and made sure the displays were compatible. They effectively had not done much with displays at all. That’s what cued us when we started looking at their displays down here in Houston. They were unsatisfactory for doing the real mission. We went up there and ironed all that out with several of the experiments that were in the cargo bay. OSS [Office of Space Science]-1 was one of them; Goddard was responsible for the test, evaluation, and preparation of most of the cargo bay experiments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This included Getaway Specials [GAS]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t recall who managed the Getaway Specials."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had mentioned that there were different types of HUDs that you were evaluating. Can you tell us about some of those different types?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.389935372175316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always a lot more than I thought. I don’t have the numbers for that. I don’t know if there’s anybody who does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about convincing management of the need for this HUD. Would you share with us how the process went from, “Let’s go investigate it” to “This is something that we actually need on the Space Shuttle?”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wasn’t going to go into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s your call."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not too keen on putting it in. In fact there was a time when I thought they might not, but this was also during ALT flights. The last ALT flight had a little dipsy-doodle in their landing. When Rockwell saw that they thought maybe a head-up display wouldn’t be a bad idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they agreed with you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 50.43326152463924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wasn’t going to go into that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s your call."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not too keen on putting it in. In fact there was a time when I thought they might not, but this was also during ALT flights. The last ALT flight had a little dipsy-doodle in their landing. When Rockwell saw that they thought maybe a head-up display wouldn’t be a bad idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they agreed with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t want anybody breaking their airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Columbia didn’t have this HUD until later. Did the STA have a HUD? Or you didn’t use a HUD until later?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 56.036957249599155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were not too keen on putting it in. In fact there was a time when I thought they might not, but this was also during ALT flights. The last ALT flight had a little dipsy-doodle in their landing. When Rockwell saw that they thought maybe a head-up display wouldn’t be a bad idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they agreed with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t want anybody breaking their airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Columbia didn’t have this HUD until later. Did the STA have a HUD? Or you didn’t use a HUD until later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t have one when I was doing it. No, the left side of the STA was configured just like the Shuttle we were flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the ’78 class coming in. You mentioned you were orienting the pilots, but tell us what it was like when you had women and minorities coming into the office, and a very large group of astronauts coming in."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 50.041063610665724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t want anybody breaking their airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that Columbia didn’t have this HUD until later. Did the STA have a HUD? Or you didn’t use a HUD until later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It didn’t have one when I was doing it. No, the left side of the STA was configured just like the Shuttle we were flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the ’78 class coming in. You mentioned you were orienting the pilots, but tell us what it was like when you had women and minorities coming into the office, and a very large group of astronauts coming in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no women test pilots at that time so they weren’t in the 15 pilots that I was getting oriented. The 1978 women were all mission specialists. I thought they really were doing a good job as mission specialists. Sally [K.] Ride worked on the remotely controlled arm on STS-3 and contributed greatly in that area. I thought they were very proficient in what they were doing. I’ve admired what they’ve done.\\n\\n Shannon [W.] Lucid on the Mir—she was for a while the most well traveled astronaut. Shannon is a good friend. I appreciate her company. She’s still around. I saw her in Mission Control the other day working on that. We had a Bible study that my wife and I started when those folks came. She of course is a missionary’s daughter, with quite a colorful early history. She was a member of that Bible study as were some others.\\n\\n Anna [L.] Fisher, I worked with her quite a bit as well, Judy [Judith A.] Resnik, Kathy [Kathryn D.] Sullivan too on the EVA. They contributed to the development of things we were doing. They came on, and that’s the way they learned. Like the rest of us did before. We were in support crews. They took over that function for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they changed the office in any way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 84.7941043515004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As I recall just a CRT that showed what the Skylab was doing. I had a simulated docking module that would dock with it and see if I could make the docking. That’s all it was. We didn’t have anything more elaborate than that. We didn’t have the two big pieces physically to dock together; we might have had that later, but it didn’t get that far. This was adequate; it was only going to be done one time anyway. We didn’t have to have a simulator for lots of different astronauts. It was a one-shot deal.\\n\\n The Marshall Space Flight Center was the head of that contract with Martin Marietta. I would go to work with the engineers at Martin Marietta, but we didn’t have a simulator there. We just took the data that we got off the one at Marshall and made them aware of what needed to be done.\\n\\n They did a good job. As long and as far as it went, we really were able to define what the requirements were and match them with the final design of the booster package."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned it was going to be as big as a truck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about the size of a dump truck, yes. Sits in the payload bay of the Space Shuttle. It was quite large. There are some pictures of it, or schematics of it, around. Perhaps you’ve seen them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No I haven’t actually. I’ll have to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have slides at home, but clearly they’ve got them over in the archives here somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look and attach them to the transcript. That’d be great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 94.2156715016671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was about the size of a dump truck, yes. Sits in the payload bay of the Space Shuttle. It was quite large. There are some pictures of it, or schematics of it, around. Perhaps you’ve seen them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No I haven’t actually. I’ll have to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have slides at home, but clearly they’ve got them over in the archives here somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look and attach them to the transcript. That’d be great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a booster engine. It also had fuel tanks on it too, propellant tanks. It had to be fairly good size to do the job. Nobody ever decided which way it was going to be used, to go higher or to go lower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you also working on prox ops [proximity operations] and rendezvous efforts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 103.57296833518566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have slides at home, but clearly they’ve got them over in the archives here somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to look and attach them to the transcript. That’d be great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a booster engine. It also had fuel tanks on it too, propellant tanks. It had to be fairly good size to do the job. Nobody ever decided which way it was going to be used, to go higher or to go lower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you also working on prox ops [proximity operations] and rendezvous efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I didn’t work on that. Fred was working on that for this particular mission, the rendezvous and prox ops with the Shuttle and Skylab, but I was going to do the part in between. It was kind of Buck Rogersish, but it was doable. Also made it exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds really neat. Did you have any specific role in the maiden flight of Columbia? The first STS flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 110.63663148353963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a booster engine. It also had fuel tanks on it too, propellant tanks. It had to be fairly good size to do the job. Nobody ever decided which way it was going to be used, to go higher or to go lower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you also working on prox ops [proximity operations] and rendezvous efforts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No I didn’t work on that. Fred was working on that for this particular mission, the rendezvous and prox ops with the Shuttle and Skylab, but I was going to do the part in between. It was kind of Buck Rogersish, but it was doable. Also made it exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds really neat. Did you have any specific role in the maiden flight of Columbia? The first STS flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just went to see it go. That’s about it. Got back here in two days. So no, I didn’t have any role in the first two missions. Gordon and I were just training for ours. So two and a half years before the flight we started training; that included starting with classes. When the Space Shuttle itself was so brand-new, there was a lot that was unknown about it, but we worked with the flight controllers, went to classes, and learned about how the systems worked. We were ready to get in the simulator. There were some part-task trainers also that we could get some time in as well before we got in the Shuttle mission simulator.\\n\\n So let’s see. Two and a half years before that would have been end of ’79 I guess, but that’s how long we trained for the Skylab mission with Bean and Garriott too, two and a half years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had training changed at all since Skylab?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00361:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 20.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Shuttle landing is a whole lot different. The only thing you don’t want to do is to go off into the water along the runway, because there are alligators in there. There are quite a few differences. All things considered, I think the Apollo ride is more dynamic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like a great career. Thank you so much."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been a very fortunate person. We’re going to talk about Apollo 13 in the Apollo Mission Control Center. NBC is doing a documentary of some sort. I guess they’ll play it next month during the 40th Anniversary of Apollo 13 during April 11 to 17. I was one of the CapComs [Capsule Communicators]. Joe [Joseph P.] Kerwin and Vance Brand were the others. I was on duty with Flight Director Gene Kranz when the explosion occurred. I don’t know who all is going to be over there, but they’re putting a documentary together. So that’s what brings me back to Houston today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got a lot of memories today from one range to the other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I didn’t get to the Moon, but I had a very fortunate career. I was in training for another [Shuttle] flight, but it was two years downstream. It was just to dump off a satellite. It wasn’t a test flight. I got in the simulator and started training, thought to myself, “Hmm, been here, done this.” A lot of people would give their right arm to do it.\\n\\n I decided that since it wasn’t as exciting, and I’d done this all before, it was probably time to be moving on. So I quit. I thought well, if I don’t get a buzz out of it it’s not worth the risk to my family, besides, two years might be six. You really don’t know. At some point in time you have to think about getting a real job and going to work for a living!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put it off as long as you could, did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 42, "return_to_go": 77.37835489483649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've done a lot of research about your past and about your work with the space program. First off, I'd like to ask you when and where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born a long time ago, almost eighty-four years ago, in a small village in southern Germany. My father was a teacher there. I grew up in a rural setting. It was a very beautiful, little, small village, and I was more at home in the stables of the farmers and in the fields and in the woods than I would have been in a town. It was a beautiful youth for me. My love for nature and for all things in nature began probably at that time and has persisted ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did your interest in rocketry and the space program develop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a relatively normal young boy, I played with rockets when I was about fourteen or fifteen years old. They didn't amount to much, and I'm almost embarrassed when I think today of what I did at that time. I took pipes and filled them with grued [phonetic] powder which I made myself, and they got up a few yards in the air, but not much more, and it didn't amount to much.\\n\\n But then when I was about fourteen or fifteen years old, I happened to see in a journal, in a picture journal, a photograph of a person who held a rocket in his hands, and the caption said, \"Professor [Hermann] Oberth believes that man can fly to the moon one of these days, with rockets.\" That impressed me very much, and at that time, it was long ago, I still believed everything that a professor said. That would not be true today. [Laughter] But at that time it was. I believed that man can fly to the moon with rockets, and I still believe it today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go on to study that, then, in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 38.78521772847122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His parents lived in Berlin. His father, Wernher von Braun's father, was at that time — he had been Secretary of Agriculture under the democratic government. He left his political position when Hitler came and became the head of a banking house in Berlin. So he was a prominent man and family, still, and they had a nanny for their children. Do you know what a nanny is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I sure do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nanny happened to be an English girl, and she brought up little Magnus and taught him English before he learned German, and so he spoke English. He went to the Allies. Again, that's a very interesting story. It has been written here in the other books also. After some time – I'll just skip over some of the details. After some time the Allies came and met von Braun and interrogated him and found out that he really was the man behind the Peenemunde work. So they said, \"We want to help you and keep you under guard in captivity, more or less, but we want you to go to America as soon as possible. You should take some of your people with you so that you can continue to build rockets in America.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I stop and ask you one question?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reason behind the decision to go to America as opposed to Russia? Was there a big decision there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 39.761353031634684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nanny happened to be an English girl, and she brought up little Magnus and taught him English before he learned German, and so he spoke English. He went to the Allies. Again, that's a very interesting story. It has been written here in the other books also. After some time – I'll just skip over some of the details. After some time the Allies came and met von Braun and interrogated him and found out that he really was the man behind the Peenemunde work. So they said, \"We want to help you and keep you under guard in captivity, more or less, but we want you to go to America as soon as possible. You should take some of your people with you so that you can continue to build rockets in America.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "May I stop and ask you one question?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reason behind the decision to go to America as opposed to Russia? Was there a big decision there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miss Kelly, it was not a big decision. It was a very straightforward and immediate decision. First of all, I should mention here that for most people in Germany, particularly for people like me and my colleagues, the Americans were never real enemies during the war. We never felt like it, even though they threw bombs on us and all of that. But America was for Germans, and particularly for young Germans, always a kind of a dream country where they wanted to go one of these days when they are older. They wanted to go to America. America had such a glorious image for us in Germany, and the idea that we are enemies did not really come up, even though we were at war. We knew the war would be something transient and not something to stay for a long time. That was one reason.\\n\\n The other reason was that we knew that the Russians were quite different. The Russians had come into Eastern Europe and into Germany, and there were a lot of cruelties by Russians, and we knew we would not have an enviable fate if the Russians would have captured us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very interesting perspective."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.957058924038535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reason behind the decision to go to America as opposed to Russia? Was there a big decision there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miss Kelly, it was not a big decision. It was a very straightforward and immediate decision. First of all, I should mention here that for most people in Germany, particularly for people like me and my colleagues, the Americans were never real enemies during the war. We never felt like it, even though they threw bombs on us and all of that. But America was for Germans, and particularly for young Germans, always a kind of a dream country where they wanted to go one of these days when they are older. They wanted to go to America. America had such a glorious image for us in Germany, and the idea that we are enemies did not really come up, even though we were at war. We knew the war would be something transient and not something to stay for a long time. That was one reason.\\n\\n The other reason was that we knew that the Russians were quite different. The Russians had come into Eastern Europe and into Germany, and there were a lot of cruelties by Russians, and we knew we would not have an enviable fate if the Russians would have captured us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a very interesting perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was not a difficult decision. It was very straightforward, absolutely. Also we had hoped at that time that if and when we can go to America, we would have a chance to continue our work on rockets, and for us the rocket was not a military system, but it was meant to go into orbit and into space. It was von Braun's dream and reason to work on rockets from the very beginning.\\n\\n When von Braun was fourteen years old he said – he was a little grandiose – he said, \"I would like to open the gates of heaven for mankind.\" [Laughter] Doesn't that sound great? And that's what were his driving force and his dream all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he did just that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.437711663267482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did only theoretical work. Professor [Hermann] Oberth – is Professor Oberth known to you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He spoke in 1923 that one could build rocket engines which work on the principle of electric fields and electric forces rather than chemical forces. Von Braun asked me one day in 1947 in Fort Bliss to look into Oberth's claims and see whether one could make a workable system out of it. That's how it began for me, and I did look into it and contributed a number of new ideas. I also wrote a book about ion propulsion. Would you like to see it? I have it here. I can show it to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the Professor Oberth that inspired you as a child, too, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Same person. The main work that we did in Fort Bliss was to launch the V-2 rockets which had been brought over from the production line in Germany. There were altogether about 100 V-2 rockets or A-4 rockets in parts. They were brought over here, first by railroad, then by ship to New Orleans, and then by truck from New Orleans to White Sands, and it is unbelievable today for a rocket engineer, these fine parts which were made in clean rooms in Peenemunde, and precision parts, they were unloaded and put in the center of the desert in Fort Bliss, and they were just lying there in the sand storms. [Laughter] So we had the task of putting these together and making workable rockets out of them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been fantastic."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.486346292519425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He spoke in 1923 that one could build rocket engines which work on the principle of electric fields and electric forces rather than chemical forces. Von Braun asked me one day in 1947 in Fort Bliss to look into Oberth's claims and see whether one could make a workable system out of it. That's how it began for me, and I did look into it and contributed a number of new ideas. I also wrote a book about ion propulsion. Would you like to see it? I have it here. I can show it to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is the Professor Oberth that inspired you as a child, too, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Same person. The main work that we did in Fort Bliss was to launch the V-2 rockets which had been brought over from the production line in Germany. There were altogether about 100 V-2 rockets or A-4 rockets in parts. They were brought over here, first by railroad, then by ship to New Orleans, and then by truck from New Orleans to White Sands, and it is unbelievable today for a rocket engineer, these fine parts which were made in clean rooms in Peenemunde, and precision parts, they were unloaded and put in the center of the desert in Fort Bliss, and they were just lying there in the sand storms. [Laughter] So we had the task of putting these together and making workable rockets out of them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been fantastic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the rockets were – there were parts of about 100, but they were not quite complete. Some parts had to be manufactured again by General Electric to make a rocket complete. Anyway, we launched about, I think, seventy-two rockets, and in spite of the rough treatment of these rocket parts, the long time since their manufacturing and the long trip from Bittlof [phonetic], Germany, to the White Sands Proving Grounds [New Mexico], in spite of all of that, about 65 or 70 percent of the rockets worked very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Even despite the fact that they traveled all the way from Germany."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 30.97079789199929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Many of the rockets were – there were parts of about 100, but they were not quite complete. Some parts had to be manufactured again by General Electric to make a rocket complete. Anyway, we launched about, I think, seventy-two rockets, and in spite of the rough treatment of these rocket parts, the long time since their manufacturing and the long trip from Bittlof [phonetic], Germany, to the White Sands Proving Grounds [New Mexico], in spite of all of that, about 65 or 70 percent of the rockets worked very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Even despite the fact that they traveled all the way from Germany."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, had spent some time lying in the desert sand in the open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's remarkable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The rockets were used to launch scientific instruments. That was a very important and very useful application of them. The Army, of course, wanted to learn how to launch rockets and how they would function and what one has to do to launch them, how many people would be necessary, what ground equipment one would need, but there was a group of scientists who had joined together to have a program of instruments flown to high altitudes. That became a very important and very rich program, rich in new results and new knowledge of the upper atmosphere and of the space beyond the atmosphere. It was a very rich program. It's very interesting to realize that the military application of rockets, or that rocket, or our rocket in Germany, lasted from September '44 to March '45, February or March '45. That's about – well, a few months. The use of the same rocket for scientific purposes in White Sands covered seven years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's spectacular in contrast."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.189775435554765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, had spent some time lying in the desert sand in the open."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's remarkable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The rockets were used to launch scientific instruments. That was a very important and very useful application of them. The Army, of course, wanted to learn how to launch rockets and how they would function and what one has to do to launch them, how many people would be necessary, what ground equipment one would need, but there was a group of scientists who had joined together to have a program of instruments flown to high altitudes. That became a very important and very rich program, rich in new results and new knowledge of the upper atmosphere and of the space beyond the atmosphere. It was a very rich program. It's very interesting to realize that the military application of rockets, or that rocket, or our rocket in Germany, lasted from September '44 to March '45, February or March '45. That's about – well, a few months. The use of the same rocket for scientific purposes in White Sands covered seven years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's spectacular in contrast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A number of very interesting things of the higher atmosphere were discovered with these flights, including, for example, the first X-rays from the sun were found by [Herbert] Friedman from the V-2 rocket. A number of people, including [James A.] Van Allen, found out the distribution of cosmic rays in high altitudes, and the temperature gradient up in high altitudes and pressure and composition of the atmosphere and things like that were discovered at that time. It was a good program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do with Dr. Van Allen? It was about that time that you started working with him, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.65261974894539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you seen the museum here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't, unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No? Well, all these rockets are on display there. In Houston they have a V-2 at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. I've seen it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you seen it? Actually, it was our V-2, and it had to be repaired because it began to rust. So it was rejuvenated, and Houston said, \"Let us have it for three months, then we'll send it back to you.\" And they have it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've seen it. It's very impressive."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.614021943272654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No? Well, all these rockets are on display there. In Houston they have a V-2 at the moment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. I've seen it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you seen it? Actually, it was our V-2, and it had to be repaired because it began to rust. So it was rejuvenated, and Houston said, \"Let us have it for three months, then we'll send it back to you.\" And they have it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've seen it. It's very impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the Redstone is here. The Jupiter is here. You should see the museum. It's worth seeing. We natives are quite proud of the museum, and we say it's the finest and largest rocket museum not only in the country, but in the solar system, which is easy to claim. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. Did you anticipate when you were developing the Redstone rocket that it would be used for purposes of man's, or human, space flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.424718448484754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the Redstone is here. The Jupiter is here. You should see the museum. It's worth seeing. We natives are quite proud of the museum, and we say it's the finest and largest rocket museum not only in the country, but in the solar system, which is easy to claim. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There you go. Did you anticipate when you were developing the Redstone rocket that it would be used for purposes of man's, or human, space flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Redstone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, again it is in here. The answer is yes, and it's one of the anecdotes. The Redstone flew in '53 the first time, and even before that, in about '52, von Braun and I met each other in the hallway one day, and just in passing, he said to me, \"With the Redstone we can do it.\"\\n\\n I was dumb enough. I said, \"Do what?\"\\n\\n He said, \"Launch a satellite, of course.\" [Laughter]\\n\\n I said, \"Oh, that's very good, very fine, very interesting.\" And then he described to me just – and he said how he would do it: put three solid stages on top of it, spin them so that they would be controlled, and then go up high and then get horizontal and shoot out the third rocket into orbit, and one can do it. He said it would not be a very elegant way to put a ten-pound or fifteen-pound satellite into orbit with such a monster like the Redstone, but it's our only way how we can do it soon. There is no other way. And he added, as far-sighted as he was, he said, \"If you don't do it somehow like this. Then the Russians will do it before we do it.\"\\n\\n Well, but then a very up-and-down history began for the first satellite. That's again in here. I wouldn't like to go into it. It takes too long. It's also in the other article I gave you about Sputnik. It's also described briefly in there and at length in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.84872215155659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, anyway, the Explorer was launched in '58. It was a very dramatic story, the whole thing, very, very suspenseful and full of hopes and frustrations, all of that, and it would be not right if I began to tell about it now. It would take until midnight also. You can read much of it in here. That was the Explorer, and then the Jupiter also sent – that's heavier and stronger – sent up satellites and then, of course, other people sent up satellites and it became not only a nationwide, but a worldwide undertaking now. And if you just imagine that we have right now at any time, I think about 2,000 – I'm not quite sure – satellites in orbit, different ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems incredible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Russian, English, Indian, Japanese, Chinese, European, and, of course, American. It's incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it makes you realize how big the Earth is, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand that none of them are running into each other or geosynchronous –"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.387469057285099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Russian, English, Indian, Japanese, Chinese, European, and, of course, American. It's incredible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it makes you realize how big the Earth is, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand that none of them are running into each other or geosynchronous –"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You wanted to know about Skylab and the space station?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and perhaps shuttle. You worked on the Saturn as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.874965619205664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To understand that none of them are running into each other or geosynchronous –"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You wanted to know about Skylab and the space station?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, and perhaps shuttle. You worked on the Saturn as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Shuttle and Saturn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are so many things that you've done."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.671796401776657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I should make a few general remarks here first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My personal work in Peenemunde at first was a guidance system. You know, probably, roughly at least, what a guidance system is and what it must do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My particular work was in accelerometers and integrators. An accelerometer measures the acceleration. It integrates the acceleration once to get the velocity and twice to get the distance. Can you follow that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.580122517575703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe you know him personally, George Mueller. He used that moment when the Congress was so happy and so up in the seventh cloud, almost, and he said, \"Gentlemen, we have come to the conclusion that we should build a dry workshop.\" It was accepted. [Laughter] And so we built a dry workshop, and the dry workshop was what we know today as the Skylab, and it was a beautiful success altogether."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sure was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a mishap on the launching, as you probably know. There was this –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for us inside, that was a very tragic situation because it could have been prevented so easily and a few things were just not done right by some people, but it's of no use to say afterwards when something like that happened, \"It's your fault,\" and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So how was the problem fixed? Did you work with other centers in fixing—? It was the meteorite shield, I believe, that didn't deploy correctly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 27.31124724175078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a mishap on the launching, as you probably know. There was this –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for us inside, that was a very tragic situation because it could have been prevented so easily and a few things were just not done right by some people, but it's of no use to say afterwards when something like that happened, \"It's your fault,\" and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So how was the problem fixed? Did you work with other centers in fixing—? It was the meteorite shield, I believe, that didn't deploy correctly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was the following. Here is the tank itself, the Skylab inside, and then there was a meteorite shield out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. On the outside, around the –"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.388672529172005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a dramatic kind of fix. The people who did it have to be admired, certainly. There was a little hole here in the white for observations, with an airlock to it. So they here in Huntsville built a kind of umbrella, and that umbrella reached through here and then unfolded here so that it would spread out and would protect that Skylab against heat. That was the problem, the main problem, the heat, because that meteorite shield was also a heat shield at the same time. So the umbrella was a shade for the Skylab, and that brought the temperature down again. [Phone rings. Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n ... quoted, and many times wrongly quoted. It's a question of how do we go to the moon, with Earth orbit rendezvous or lunar rendezvous or direct? And that is a story which is very clear and well known to us old-timers, but not to the new-timers, and the new-timers often say, \"Well, that's where von Braun was wrong, but he was told the right way by the people in Houston, and then he had to agree.\" But the truth is quite different and that is worthwhile telling the right way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can we get that on tape? Whenever you're ready."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, probably, the story of the different ways of how to go to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one is to go up there into orbit and then have a rendezvous here and go on from here and go to the moon and go down directly and then come back like so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the Earth-orbit rendezvous."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.20963614352445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, probably, the story of the different ways of how to go to the moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one is to go up there into orbit and then have a rendezvous here and go on from here and go to the moon and go down directly and then come back like so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the Earth-orbit rendezvous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the Earth-orbit rendezvous. And then there's this other one, which is go from here into orbit but then a little later go out to the moon, go down and up again, and then, from here, back to Earth. That's the lunar-orbit rendezvous. And then the third one is a direct mode, what goes from here – here's the moon – direct down and up again and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the direct ascent."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.2329290483605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one is to go up there into orbit and then have a rendezvous here and go on from here and go to the moon and go down directly and then come back like so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the Earth-orbit rendezvous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the Earth-orbit rendezvous. And then there's this other one, which is go from here into orbit but then a little later go out to the moon, go down and up again, and then, from here, back to Earth. That's the lunar-orbit rendezvous. And then the third one is a direct mode, what goes from here – here's the moon – direct down and up again and so on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's the direct ascent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Direct. Now, von Braun was at first for this Earth-orbit rendezvous, and he said we will have to have two launchings of two Saturn Vs – this one, and that's the second one, Saturn V – and then we can do it this way. Von Braun had three reasons for doing that. First, he said, if we do it that way, we will develop the orbital rendezvous method for this project, and that will be a milestone for the space flight to come, for many, many other applications. For example, when we have the space station, we need a number of rendezvous operations in Earth orbit. We have to develop that, how we go there, how we transfer from one vehicle into the other one, and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this prior to the time that rendezvous was perfected?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.05472155132198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miss Kelly, if we had done it from the beginning and not spent a full year in talking about it, we could have done it, but not at the time. When the decision finally had to be made, it was too late then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How come?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was two Saturns, and they would have to rendezvous up there, and that was something that must be developed, you know, the guidance systems and how do they get together close enough so that pieces and tank fillings and so on can be transferred. It must be developed. It would have taken time, and it was just too late at that time. So, that's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a very interesting perspective, and I'm glad that –"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's also in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. It's in the book as well. Who were the IBM computer people who made the major computer advances?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.647804384348124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's also in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. It's in the book as well. Who were the IBM computer people who made the major computer advances?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them was a fellow who had then his company here, his own company. He left that company, but the company's still here. It is – it's old age. I'm so sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was the brain behind that computer work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you think of it some other time, let us know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.164227093720138, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them was a fellow who had then his company here, his own company. He left that company, but the company's still here. It is – it's old age. I'm so sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was the brain behind that computer work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you think of it some other time, let us know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me write down what I should –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to ask you about your work in the ALSEP [Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package] on the lunar surface."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.738030104133486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he was the brain behind that computer work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you think of it some other time, let us know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Let me write down what I should –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to ask you about your work in the ALSEP [Apollo Lunar Surface Experiments Package] on the lunar surface."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not too deeply involved in the direct work for the Saturn-Apollo program, but at the beginning, when we started thinking of lunar missions, I was involved in several investigations. One of them was, for example, the question of how the lunar surface looks like, whether it is a deep layer of loose dust or whether it is solid or whether it's something in between. That has importance with respect to the vehicle we may eventually use on the moon, what kind of tires should it have, what wheels, how should it move forward, should it be built like a car for Earth or should it be like something else going through deep dust.\\n\\n What we did in my laboratory was to compare a number of potential samples of lunar surface and to try out the bearing capability of several arrangements of dust and rock, things like that. Also we developed at that time a drill that could drill into rock and find out how the rocks look like in their center and also what the composition of rocks at greater depth may be. I was involved in such things, but not in the development of the Saturn, the big Saturn rocket itself. That was up to the specialists for rocket engines and rocket vehicles, spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you test your experiment package? Were you able to test it on the lunar surface prior to its use?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.195098893991958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not too deeply involved in the direct work for the Saturn-Apollo program, but at the beginning, when we started thinking of lunar missions, I was involved in several investigations. One of them was, for example, the question of how the lunar surface looks like, whether it is a deep layer of loose dust or whether it is solid or whether it's something in between. That has importance with respect to the vehicle we may eventually use on the moon, what kind of tires should it have, what wheels, how should it move forward, should it be built like a car for Earth or should it be like something else going through deep dust.\\n\\n What we did in my laboratory was to compare a number of potential samples of lunar surface and to try out the bearing capability of several arrangements of dust and rock, things like that. Also we developed at that time a drill that could drill into rock and find out how the rocks look like in their center and also what the composition of rocks at greater depth may be. I was involved in such things, but not in the development of the Saturn, the big Saturn rocket itself. That was up to the specialists for rocket engines and rocket vehicles, spacecraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you test your experiment package? Were you able to test it on the lunar surface prior to its use?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, of course, tested very carefully all the individual sensors and radio links, control systems. All of the functions had to be subjected to – including low temperatures. That was done very carefully and with success. It worked quite well. Even after the astronauts had left the ALSEP worked, continued to work and to transmit data to Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not today, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But years after the lunar landings."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.216776548879952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we, of course, tested very carefully all the individual sensors and radio links, control systems. All of the functions had to be subjected to – including low temperatures. That was done very carefully and with success. It worked quite well. Even after the astronauts had left the ALSEP worked, continued to work and to transmit data to Earth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not today, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But years after the lunar landings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some time afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. It sounded like it worked very well. Now, how were you able to determine the composition of the lunar surface prior to the astronauts arriving?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.240862832088837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not today, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But years after the lunar landings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some time afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. It sounded like it worked very well. Now, how were you able to determine the composition of the lunar surface prior to the astronauts arriving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That could not be really determined. One could find out from landings of spacecraft that had been there before, unmanned systems. One could find out roughly what the surface could be, so we were quite confident that it was relatively solid. You may recall that the LM, which was eventually developed for the Saturn-Apollo, the LM, Lunar Excursion Module, had four legs, and each leg had a pad off of a metal plate, and we expected and hoped that these pads would be big enough to keep it from sinking into the ground, into dust ground. This hope was fully verified and fulfilled later on. The landing vehicles stood very firmly on the ground, so there was no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be very interesting to ask you about some of the letters I'm sure you received on some people who had concerns about the lunar surface. Did you receive any such letters of people who thought it was just an ocean of dust and that people would be sinking if they landed on the moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.378736480098706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some time afterwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. It sounded like it worked very well. Now, how were you able to determine the composition of the lunar surface prior to the astronauts arriving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That could not be really determined. One could find out from landings of spacecraft that had been there before, unmanned systems. One could find out roughly what the surface could be, so we were quite confident that it was relatively solid. You may recall that the LM, which was eventually developed for the Saturn-Apollo, the LM, Lunar Excursion Module, had four legs, and each leg had a pad off of a metal plate, and we expected and hoped that these pads would be big enough to keep it from sinking into the ground, into dust ground. This hope was fully verified and fulfilled later on. The landing vehicles stood very firmly on the ground, so there was no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be very interesting to ask you about some of the letters I'm sure you received on some people who had concerns about the lunar surface. Did you receive any such letters of people who thought it was just an ocean of dust and that people would be sinking if they landed on the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were one famous prediction for that from Thomas Gold. Thomas Gold is a well-known geologist and astronomer, also, and a person who has been very active in space programs before, and he thought that there would be a deep layer of dust on the moon and there would even be a danger that the astronauts may sink in and never be seen again because they would drown in the sea of dust. But that was not the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to test that along with the unmanned spacecraft that landed on the moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.643040533443006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That could not be really determined. One could find out from landings of spacecraft that had been there before, unmanned systems. One could find out roughly what the surface could be, so we were quite confident that it was relatively solid. You may recall that the LM, which was eventually developed for the Saturn-Apollo, the LM, Lunar Excursion Module, had four legs, and each leg had a pad off of a metal plate, and we expected and hoped that these pads would be big enough to keep it from sinking into the ground, into dust ground. This hope was fully verified and fulfilled later on. The landing vehicles stood very firmly on the ground, so there was no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be very interesting to ask you about some of the letters I'm sure you received on some people who had concerns about the lunar surface. Did you receive any such letters of people who thought it was just an ocean of dust and that people would be sinking if they landed on the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were one famous prediction for that from Thomas Gold. Thomas Gold is a well-known geologist and astronomer, also, and a person who has been very active in space programs before, and he thought that there would be a deep layer of dust on the moon and there would even be a danger that the astronauts may sink in and never be seen again because they would drown in the sea of dust. But that was not the case."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to test that along with the unmanned spacecraft that landed on the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the time we sent the Apollo up there, I believe that nobody was afraid of the astronauts meeting a sea of dust up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you collaborate or work with or cooperate with any of the other centers on this project, and, if so, how did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 28.187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If I could make that decision, I would simply say let America do it and let America invite other countries to contribute instruments, for example. Think of a number of our spacecraft which are in orbit now. Many of them have instruments built in England or in Germany or in Russia, even, or in Italy, and they are integrated on our spacecraft. And that's a good way to do it. That's how I would do a Mars mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're primarily thinking of the shuttle spacecraft that has the different telescopes and various instruments on it that are being used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just on a Mars mission, going to Mars. Going to Mars. Now, the shuttle, of course, has also a number of instruments built by other nations, by other countries, and that's a method which works. I think it's a good one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to go back and ask you a little bit about the shuttle. I know you worked primarily with the Hubble Space Telescope. I don't want to take too much or your time. We could probably talk for weeks about it. Would you like to stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, more than two and a half hours. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you mention something about your work on the Hubble Space Telescope? And we can wrap things up very shortly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It's a beautiful instrument and very, very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Well, I don't want to keep you much longer, but I would like to ask you just one more question, among many others, and I'd like to ask you what you think your most significant contributions were to the space program. What was most important to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's hard to tell. Also, you know, a man doesn't want very much to talk about his own accomplishments. I think, too, one is that I had the opportunity or the privilege, or the good luck of bringing scientists and rocket engineers together a number of times, a number of points in the program. I don't believe that many would acknowledge that now. You know how people are. \"They know this was my idea. I didn't have to listen to those guys.\" That's how I'd respond. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. And the other one is electric propulsion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did a lot of significant work in that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That has, unfortunately, not yet led to a good project. There's now one under way after many years of effort by JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory] they want to go to one of the asteroids with an ion propulsion system. I hope they will accomplish it and get through with it. The Russians are more active there. They use electric systems to control their satellites in orbit. You know, many of their satellites, particularly high-orbit satellites, stationary satellites, must be controlled carefully with small thrusts every once in a while to keep them in the right orbit, and electric systems are very useful for that, and the Russians do that. The Air Force does it, too, here, it has also done it, but NASA is somehow reluctant. The reason why they are so reluctant is probably one reason which is expressed by a common expression used in NASA; that is, the \"NIH factor.\" You know what this is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. What is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That has, unfortunately, not yet led to a good project. There's now one under way after many years of effort by JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory] they want to go to one of the asteroids with an ion propulsion system. I hope they will accomplish it and get through with it. The Russians are more active there. They use electric systems to control their satellites in orbit. You know, many of their satellites, particularly high-orbit satellites, stationary satellites, must be controlled carefully with small thrusts every once in a while to keep them in the right orbit, and electric systems are very useful for that, and the Russians do that. The Air Force does it, too, here, it has also done it, but NASA is somehow reluctant. The reason why they are so reluctant is probably one reason which is expressed by a common expression used in NASA; that is, the \"NIH factor.\" You know what this is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. What is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NIH means Not Invented Here. [Laughter] You know what I mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, space people, among other things, are humans, with all their frailties and weaknesses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and sometimes students forget that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00544:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NIH means Not Invented Here. [Laughter] You know what I mean?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, space people, among other things, are humans, with all their frailties and weaknesses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely, and sometimes students forget that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I want to thank you very much. We're very honored that you've been able to talk to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00925:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 30, "return_to_go": 75.45158457249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right. That's the last thing you would think would ever happen. Another thing I'm really proud of, and that was the [Silver] Snoopy [Space Flight Awareness] Award that I got for working—it was on Apollo 15—for working on spacesuits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did one of those crew members award the Snoopy to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the letter of appreciation was from Al [Alan L.] Bean. Then, we were presented the Silver Snoopy pin by Astronaut Robert Parker. There was like six or seven of us from ILC that got the Snoopy on the same day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Very exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Share with us what it was like to be on the launch pad, the day of the launch, and being part of getting them ready to go."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00506:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 141.1126372944251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about—you just finished talking about the cameras, and how those had been adapted, and some of the other tools. I ran across in one reference that actually during your mission, Gene Cernan used the hammer more frequently because it was more suited to his size. Was that something that was an actual situation? And how did that develop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. There’s no question that he could handle the hammer better. He had a larger hand, and the handle was never—I—we never got the design of the handle so it would universally be compatible for all the astronauts. And Gene just had a very big hand; and he could—he could grip it better and not get as fatigued using it. (I used it every once in a while.)\\n\\n But on the other hand, for my purposes, the scoop—for geological purposes, I found the scope much more versatile. I could pick up rocks with it—small rocks—and I—but I could also dig trenches and do all sorts of other things with it. So, the scoop was perfectly fine for me; and it gave me something to lean on, to look down. So, I was perfectly happy with the scoop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A wide variety of tools—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—that all came in useful. As you were becoming more involved (after you had finished your initial training with the pilot training) and then were working, going through with the other class and getting some more of that initial training, and now working on the ALSEP and the tools, when did you become involved with more specifically training on Apollo itself for selecting sites or becoming involved specifically on missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.87478037105347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hi. I was teaching in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were teaching in English. Ok, but you were teaching French."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching English in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. But in a French school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I've got it. Ok. Oh, that's right. TEFL is teaching English as a foreign language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.97197819005941, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching English in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. But in a French school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I've got it. Ok. Oh, that's right. TEFL is teaching English as a foreign language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All this many years later, I don't want anybody to think that I was teaching in French because that was a no-no for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh was it really?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.302197988954898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. I've got it. Ok. Oh, that's right. TEFL is teaching English as a foreign language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All this many years later, I don't want anybody to think that I was teaching in French because that was a no-no for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh was it really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to teach in English from the moment we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Ok, now that we've got that straight. Jane, tell us who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where did you? Where were you born? Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.33577554328322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All this many years later, I don't want anybody to think that I was teaching in French because that was a no-no for Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh was it really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to teach in English from the moment we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Ok, now that we've got that straight. Jane, tell us who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where did you? Where were you born? Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Virginia, in Arlington, Virginia. And I spent two years in Hawaii, in my high school years. My parents transferred down there for a job, but I did graduate from Arlington High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you came back to Arlington to finish high school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.373083936981352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to teach in English from the moment we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how interesting. Ok, now that we've got that straight. Jane, tell us who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where did you? Where were you born? Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Virginia, in Arlington, Virginia. And I spent two years in Hawaii, in my high school years. My parents transferred down there for a job, but I did graduate from Arlington High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you came back to Arlington to finish high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I went to William and Mary, College of William and Mary in Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.52564881886817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Virginia, in Arlington, Virginia. And I spent two years in Hawaii, in my high school years. My parents transferred down there for a job, but I did graduate from Arlington High School."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you came back to Arlington to finish high school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then I went to William and Mary, College of William and Mary in Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had one sister, a year and a half older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And so your family traveled together, then out to Hawaii. Did you do other things together as a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.05635656650391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had one sister, a year and a half older."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. And so your family traveled together, then out to Hawaii. Did you do other things together as a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had wonderful trips. My parents were both from the South. My dad was from Texas and my mom from Mississippi. So every year just about, in the summer, we would go down there to visit their families. So we had these car trips, hot car trips through the South in the fifties, you know? It was fun. A lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my father worked for the Federal Trade Commission, and when he retired. He was a consumer protection specialist, one of the early ones, and he was recruited by the Hawaii government when it had just become a state to come down and help them write some conforming legislation. So we got to go there for two years with them, and that was how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How delightful. And then you came back and you went to high school, and what kind of kid were you in high school? Did you do sports?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.062618407226566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had wonderful trips. My parents were both from the South. My dad was from Texas and my mom from Mississippi. So every year just about, in the summer, we would go down there to visit their families. So we had these car trips, hot car trips through the South in the fifties, you know? It was fun. A lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my father worked for the Federal Trade Commission, and when he retired. He was a consumer protection specialist, one of the early ones, and he was recruited by the Hawaii government when it had just become a state to come down and help them write some conforming legislation. So we got to go there for two years with them, and that was how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How delightful. And then you came back and you went to high school, and what kind of kid were you in high school? Did you do sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really good conscientious student. I excelled in in academics. That was my big thing from when I was in kindergarten, just about. I was very shy. And once you got to know me, you liked me. But I didn't have a lot of friends because I was very shy, shy. One thing I did do was I did theater, I did teen theater. So that was where I found my niche in my later high school years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great. Did you study French in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.847353785807297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But my father worked for the Federal Trade Commission, and when he retired. He was a consumer protection specialist, one of the early ones, and he was recruited by the Hawaii government when it had just become a state to come down and help them write some conforming legislation. So we got to go there for two years with them, and that was how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How delightful. And then you came back and you went to high school, and what kind of kid were you in high school? Did you do sports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really good conscientious student. I excelled in in academics. That was my big thing from when I was in kindergarten, just about. I was very shy. And once you got to know me, you liked me. But I didn't have a lot of friends because I was very shy, shy. One thing I did do was I did theater, I did teen theater. So that was where I found my niche in my later high school years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great. Did you study French in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started French. That's when I was in eighth grade was when they let us, that was when we began foreign language study and I took French and I went all the way through. I majored in French in college. I just loved it. I did really well in it. I loved it. There was no reason for it. You know, I don't have French people in my family or anything, but I just loved it. And it had this prestige at that time that I think it's kind of lost now. But you know, it was the language of the polished girl's education, and Paris is always there, you know, in the background. And so it would just have a certain cachet to it. And I loved it, but I also took Latin and then Spanish later on. But French was my love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Latin in high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.83039309534144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was really good conscientious student. I excelled in in academics. That was my big thing from when I was in kindergarten, just about. I was very shy. And once you got to know me, you liked me. But I didn't have a lot of friends because I was very shy, shy. One thing I did do was I did theater, I did teen theater. So that was where I found my niche in my later high school years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's great. Did you study French in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started French. That's when I was in eighth grade was when they let us, that was when we began foreign language study and I took French and I went all the way through. I majored in French in college. I just loved it. I did really well in it. I loved it. There was no reason for it. You know, I don't have French people in my family or anything, but I just loved it. And it had this prestige at that time that I think it's kind of lost now. But you know, it was the language of the polished girl's education, and Paris is always there, you know, in the background. And so it would just have a certain cachet to it. And I loved it, but I also took Latin and then Spanish later on. But French was my love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Latin in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In junior high school. And then, yeah, junior high school for two years and then in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance as a student to go to France"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.81154788371271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started French. That's when I was in eighth grade was when they let us, that was when we began foreign language study and I took French and I went all the way through. I majored in French in college. I just loved it. I did really well in it. I loved it. There was no reason for it. You know, I don't have French people in my family or anything, but I just loved it. And it had this prestige at that time that I think it's kind of lost now. But you know, it was the language of the polished girl's education, and Paris is always there, you know, in the background. And so it would just have a certain cachet to it. And I loved it, but I also took Latin and then Spanish later on. But French was my love."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Latin in high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In junior high school. And then, yeah, junior high school for two years and then in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance as a student to go to France"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a sophomore in college?\n\nI went to France for a program between the two years in the summer. They didn't have a lot of junior year abroad things at my school didn't do, any of them, they do now. But so I went on a tour with another organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.012830981903008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In junior high school. And then, yeah, junior high school for two years and then in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance as a student to go to France"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a sophomore in college?\n\nI went to France for a program between the two years in the summer. They didn't have a lot of junior year abroad things at my school didn't do, any of them, they do now. But so I went on a tour with another organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in high school and college, did you have summer jobs that you need to work to earn some money?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.680923313225566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was a sophomore in college?\n\nI went to France for a program between the two years in the summer. They didn't have a lot of junior year abroad things at my school didn't do, any of them, they do now. But so I went on a tour with another organization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the summer of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in high school and college, did you have summer jobs that you need to work to earn some money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have to work in high school, although I did in my senior year of high school and the summer before I went to college, I did because I wanted to. I worked in a daycare center as an aide. And then when I was in college, I got a job working in the library at one point for not too many hours a week, and that was the worst job I ever had. I typed numbers on catalog cards and it was a four hour shift. And you got a 15 minute break in between the four hours, and that was it. The rest of the time, it's just the numbers. And it was terrible. When they told you, we don't have any today, you can go out and file cards in the card catalog, it was so wonderful. That was ecstasy.\n\nAnd then I also in the summers, I had a really nice job in Washington. I would go home to be with my parents and I had a job at the World Bank. It was in the Africa department and I worked in the French Francophone West Africa Department of the World Bank and I helped. We had people, economists and different professionals, all French speaking, and they would prepare missions and go on missions to these countries in Africa that I was very excited about. And that was the job I sought. I kind of made it up before I found it, and I was happy to help. Oh, it was a wonderful job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you were. Did you say what you majored in in college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.534359236917297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in high school and college, did you have summer jobs that you need to work to earn some money?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have to work in high school, although I did in my senior year of high school and the summer before I went to college, I did because I wanted to. I worked in a daycare center as an aide. And then when I was in college, I got a job working in the library at one point for not too many hours a week, and that was the worst job I ever had. I typed numbers on catalog cards and it was a four hour shift. And you got a 15 minute break in between the four hours, and that was it. The rest of the time, it's just the numbers. And it was terrible. When they told you, we don't have any today, you can go out and file cards in the card catalog, it was so wonderful. That was ecstasy.\n\nAnd then I also in the summers, I had a really nice job in Washington. I would go home to be with my parents and I had a job at the World Bank. It was in the Africa department and I worked in the French Francophone West Africa Department of the World Bank and I helped. We had people, economists and different professionals, all French speaking, and they would prepare missions and go on missions to these countries in Africa that I was very excited about. And that was the job I sought. I kind of made it up before I found it, and I was happy to help. Oh, it was a wonderful job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you were. Did you say what you majored in in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I majored in French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You majored in French?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.59373248546366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have to work in high school, although I did in my senior year of high school and the summer before I went to college, I did because I wanted to. I worked in a daycare center as an aide. And then when I was in college, I got a job working in the library at one point for not too many hours a week, and that was the worst job I ever had. I typed numbers on catalog cards and it was a four hour shift. And you got a 15 minute break in between the four hours, and that was it. The rest of the time, it's just the numbers. And it was terrible. When they told you, we don't have any today, you can go out and file cards in the card catalog, it was so wonderful. That was ecstasy.\n\nAnd then I also in the summers, I had a really nice job in Washington. I would go home to be with my parents and I had a job at the World Bank. It was in the Africa department and I worked in the French Francophone West Africa Department of the World Bank and I helped. We had people, economists and different professionals, all French speaking, and they would prepare missions and go on missions to these countries in Africa that I was very excited about. And that was the job I sought. I kind of made it up before I found it, and I was happy to help. Oh, it was a wonderful job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. So you were. Did you say what you majored in in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I majored in French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You majored in French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so eventually you graduated from college. You've got a degree, a bachelor's degree in French. And eventually you get this idea to join the Peace Corps. Did you do that right away, right out of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.215258317181846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I majored in French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You majored in French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so eventually you graduated from college. You've got a degree, a bachelor's degree in French. And eventually you get this idea to join the Peace Corps. Did you do that right away, right out of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was engaged to be married, and I had met this guy when I was a freshman and dated him throughout college and we were going to get married in May. I graduated a semester early, so I graduated in December. We're going to get married in May and move to California. He was going, he was an accountant and I was going to be a housewife. I don't know what. Maybe try to get a master's in French and teach somewhere I didn't have. It was just getting married was the plan. And it turns out it was. I could tell it wasn't going to be a good marriage and I was very, and as the time got closer, I was ambivalent about it. And so I had done an application to the Peace Corps when I graduated in December, and I just kind of kept both of those lines going. I hadn't told him about it, of course. And when I got accepted, I thought, well that's it. So I went, I decided I gave him back his ring. I went into the Peace Corps much to my. My parents weren't excited about my going away to Africa, but they were less excited about my marrying this guy. So that turned out to be good. And then he came over to visit me my first year there, and that was terrible. I kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You trusted your instincts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.016953685757606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so eventually you graduated from college. You've got a degree, a bachelor's degree in French. And eventually you get this idea to join the Peace Corps. Did you do that right away, right out of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was engaged to be married, and I had met this guy when I was a freshman and dated him throughout college and we were going to get married in May. I graduated a semester early, so I graduated in December. We're going to get married in May and move to California. He was going, he was an accountant and I was going to be a housewife. I don't know what. Maybe try to get a master's in French and teach somewhere I didn't have. It was just getting married was the plan. And it turns out it was. I could tell it wasn't going to be a good marriage and I was very, and as the time got closer, I was ambivalent about it. And so I had done an application to the Peace Corps when I graduated in December, and I just kind of kept both of those lines going. I hadn't told him about it, of course. And when I got accepted, I thought, well that's it. So I went, I decided I gave him back his ring. I went into the Peace Corps much to my. My parents weren't excited about my going away to Africa, but they were less excited about my marrying this guy. So that turned out to be good. And then he came over to visit me my first year there, and that was terrible. I kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You trusted your instincts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm so glad. Peace Corps saved me from a life of I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Let's go back to you. It's December and you're applying to the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.018837428619563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was engaged to be married, and I had met this guy when I was a freshman and dated him throughout college and we were going to get married in May. I graduated a semester early, so I graduated in December. We're going to get married in May and move to California. He was going, he was an accountant and I was going to be a housewife. I don't know what. Maybe try to get a master's in French and teach somewhere I didn't have. It was just getting married was the plan. And it turns out it was. I could tell it wasn't going to be a good marriage and I was very, and as the time got closer, I was ambivalent about it. And so I had done an application to the Peace Corps when I graduated in December, and I just kind of kept both of those lines going. I hadn't told him about it, of course. And when I got accepted, I thought, well that's it. So I went, I decided I gave him back his ring. I went into the Peace Corps much to my. My parents weren't excited about my going away to Africa, but they were less excited about my marrying this guy. So that turned out to be good. And then he came over to visit me my first year there, and that was terrible. I kicked him out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You trusted your instincts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm so glad. Peace Corps saved me from a life of I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Let's go back to you. It's December and you're applying to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you why. You said when I got the idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. What made you do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.020930476243958, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm so glad. Peace Corps saved me from a life of I don't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Let's go back to you. It's December and you're applying to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you why. You said when I got the idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. What made you do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was, 1960 was when Kennedy started it, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was '61."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.23721601679555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'61. So '48, I was 12 or 13. When he gave the speech where he started it, my family was watching TV and we heard him and I said to my mom and dad, I said, I want to do that and I want to go to Africa. And that came from nowhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no. I mean, the idea of wanting to do something exciting came from being a person, you know, a kid. But Africa, there was nothing about Africa that was any different than any other place in the world to me, except for the fact that I was a big stamp collector and they had the most beautiful stamps, Africa did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe that was my mind was just dreaming on that, and the names were very exciting. But so I didn't have that like on the top of my head for that many years, but it had always kind of planted there at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1969 or '70 when you were filling out this application form, was there the question whether there was any place in the world that you would not want to serve in or was there? Did you have a favorite place that you hoped to be assigned to? Did they ask you if you wanted to go to Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 22.533904001091287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember about anything I didn't want to go to, I don't know if they asked me now. I know that I did express a preference because I had been working in the World Bank and I had gotten to know these different Francophone African countries. I knew that I wanted to go to a place where they spoke French because that would be something that would be interesting to me, you know, to do that. And then also, I wanted to go to the poorest country. I wanted to go to the country where I could be the most use, you know. So this was very idealistic. So I asked my bosses in the World Bank, I asked because they knew all these countries and I said, where should I go? And they said, well, if you want an experience that is, I said, I want it to be very different. I don't want to go to a place that's a lot like where I lived, you know? And they said a place that would be very different and that would be a nice place to be and where the people are very poor, it would be either Cameroon or Chad, probably Chad. So I volunteered to go to Chad. And when I got the, I put that down as a preference. When I got off the plane at my training site, the people who met us, one of them said, where is Jane Hale? And I said, and they said, we just wanted to see you. You're the first person that ever volunteered for Chad. So, so I got what I wanted. But that was because there weren't a lot. There wasn't a lot of clamor. If I had volunteered for Nepal at that time, I probably wouldn't have gotten it. That was the place to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the hot place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for the drugs and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my! So you went to training about the time you would have been married, right? In May maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yeah, probably May or June. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.92656000121254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, for the drugs and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my! So you went to training about the time you would have been married, right? In May maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yeah, probably May or June. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a staging in Philadelphia like three days. Everybody had that. I think at that time where you went to the dentist and you got a new pair of glasses and a second pair of glasses and you just got all your medical check out there to make sure that you were in one piece to go on. And then we went. They took us to Canada, to Quebec, a little tiny town called Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere in rural Quebec. And it was a convent. It was a Catholic convent and I think a school. And in the summertime they rented it out to Peace Corps because they had these dormitory cells like, you know, and we'd had our immersion French immersion there for six weeks I think. I know it was one of those things. You know, you take the pledge not to speak any English, and it was a large group of people, all the Francophone Africa teachers work together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're not necessarily going to Chad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.918400001347266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, yeah, probably May or June. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a staging in Philadelphia like three days. Everybody had that. I think at that time where you went to the dentist and you got a new pair of glasses and a second pair of glasses and you just got all your medical check out there to make sure that you were in one piece to go on. And then we went. They took us to Canada, to Quebec, a little tiny town called Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere in rural Quebec. And it was a convent. It was a Catholic convent and I think a school. And in the summertime they rented it out to Peace Corps because they had these dormitory cells like, you know, and we'd had our immersion French immersion there for six weeks I think. I know it was one of those things. You know, you take the pledge not to speak any English, and it was a large group of people, all the Francophone Africa teachers work together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're not necessarily going to Chad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were in my group, there were 13, I think, going to Chad. But we had Ivory Coast, we had Senegal, we had Togo, Benin or Dahomey at that time, all of the various places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did people know when they arrived in Canada which of those countries they were going to be going to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.020444445941406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a staging in Philadelphia like three days. Everybody had that. I think at that time where you went to the dentist and you got a new pair of glasses and a second pair of glasses and you just got all your medical check out there to make sure that you were in one piece to go on. And then we went. They took us to Canada, to Quebec, a little tiny town called Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatiere in rural Quebec. And it was a convent. It was a Catholic convent and I think a school. And in the summertime they rented it out to Peace Corps because they had these dormitory cells like, you know, and we'd had our immersion French immersion there for six weeks I think. I know it was one of those things. You know, you take the pledge not to speak any English, and it was a large group of people, all the Francophone Africa teachers work together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're not necessarily going to Chad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were in my group, there were 13, I think, going to Chad. But we had Ivory Coast, we had Senegal, we had Togo, Benin or Dahomey at that time, all of the various places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did people know when they arrived in Canada which of those countries they were going to be going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because we stayed together as a group in our training, we met with for cross-cultural training with people from that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fine. Yeah, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 12.244938273268229, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were in my group, there were 13, I think, going to Chad. But we had Ivory Coast, we had Senegal, we had Togo, Benin or Dahomey at that time, all of the various places."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did people know when they arrived in Canada which of those countries they were going to be going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because we stayed together as a group in our training, we met with for cross-cultural training with people from that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fine. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was really a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Senegal, for example, and Chad are going to be quite different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.049931414742478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because we stayed together as a group in our training, we met with for cross-cultural training with people from that country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, fine. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was really a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Senegal, for example, and Chad are going to be quite different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we did local language training too. It was a very good training program. We had people from, we had a Chadian, a couple of Chadians working with us, people who were teachers who knew Americans, but also knew Chad and they would teach us our the language. What we were learning was Chadian Arabic, and they would teach us and they would answer our questions and give us advice about, you know, things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. Chadian Arabic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.833257127491643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because it was really a huge group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Senegal, for example, and Chad are going to be quite different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we did local language training too. It was a very good training program. We had people from, we had a Chadian, a couple of Chadians working with us, people who were teachers who knew Americans, but also knew Chad and they would teach us our the language. What we were learning was Chadian Arabic, and they would teach us and they would answer our questions and give us advice about, you know, things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's terrific. Chadian Arabic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was not. I was not a star at Chadian Arabic. My French served me very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when we when we get over to Chad, I'll ask you more about the languages there. How many people were in your training group all together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.559576700606966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was not. I was not a star at Chadian Arabic. My French served me very well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when we when we get over to Chad, I'll ask you more about the languages there. How many people were in your training group all together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't know. Over a hundred, I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, huge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we did get to know each other because we were together all the time and we were speaking French all the time and going to and from the cafeteria eating together. They had a lot of social activities. They didn't give us any time to be, maybe we might have gotten a nap in the afternoon or something, but they didn't want us. It was sort of a it was pressured. It was high pressured. They wanted to make sure that I think we could stand it. My husband said, I hadn't been aware of this, but my husband, who had been a doctor in the Peace Corps, earlier said that they had some ideas that you had to put really pressure on the kids to try to make them break. And I don't think they did that. I don't think they were at that point with us. But they were they were very strict about everything. And so we all knew each other. We were kind of like all together in this, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there the process of deselection when you were in training? Did they call it that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.56737864272465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we did get to know each other because we were together all the time and we were speaking French all the time and going to and from the cafeteria eating together. They had a lot of social activities. They didn't give us any time to be, maybe we might have gotten a nap in the afternoon or something, but they didn't want us. It was sort of a it was pressured. It was high pressured. They wanted to make sure that I think we could stand it. My husband said, I hadn't been aware of this, but my husband, who had been a doctor in the Peace Corps, earlier said that they had some ideas that you had to put really pressure on the kids to try to make them break. And I don't think they did that. I don't think they were at that point with us. But they were they were very strict about everything. And so we all knew each other. We were kind of like all together in this, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there the process of deselection when you were in training? Did they call it that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was part of what my husband had been talking about. Nobody that, I don't remember anybody being worried about not making it. We were worried about not getting a good enough score in our language. That was the main part of training. And for me, it was OK because I was a French major. But there were some people that were really struggling and there was there was a minimum score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In French. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren't so worried about the Chadian Arabic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.741531825249611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was part of what my husband had been talking about. Nobody that, I don't remember anybody being worried about not making it. We were worried about not getting a good enough score in our language. That was the main part of training. And for me, it was OK because I was a French major. But there were some people that were really struggling and there was there was a minimum score."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In French. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They weren't so worried about the Chadian Arabic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But the French. So they had to they had to have some, some score. And I think there were some people that didn't make it. There were people who were worried about not making it. And I think there were a couple who didn't. And then there were, there was one I remember who dropped out, who just went home, but mostly those who came did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have interviews with psychiatrists or psychologists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.495718302777297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. But the French. So they had to they had to have some, some score. And I think there were some people that didn't make it. There were people who were worried about not making it. And I think there were a couple who didn't. And then there were, there was one I remember who dropped out, who just went home, but mostly those who came did it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have interviews with psychiatrists or psychologists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, thank goodness. Apparently, they did do that earlier. Did you have that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might not have gotten in!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. We became very proficient in dealing with those interviews. Anyway, who ran, the person who was responsible for the academic portions of the training or content of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.439687003085885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, thank goodness. Apparently, they did do that earlier. Did you have that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might not have gotten in!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. We became very proficient in dealing with those interviews. Anyway, who ran, the person who was responsible for the academic portions of the training or content of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't tell you because I experienced it as kid, as a volunteer. So I don't know all of the hierarchy, but I believe, I know we used FSI materials, Foreign Service Institute. We used their training program, and we use their grading scale of one plus, two plus, three minus, that kind of stuff. And I believe we might have had their people come in to do the testing. I don't know. The teachers. We would, most of the day was spent in going to classes from one class to another. There'd be maybe 40 minutes of class and you have a five minute break, then you go to another class. And most of them were language training. Some were cross-cultural training and some were teaching you about to be a teacher. But the language training classes were mostly run by people from the Francophone countries. There were a couple of French people and I think they were all contract workers, but many of them did it a lot, so they knew each other. And then there were some former Peace Corps volunteers too, who were doing it. So it was a mishmash. In fact, when I finished Peace Corps, I became a trainer for about six months. It was a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, we'll talk about that later."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.488541114539872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might not have gotten in!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. We became very proficient in dealing with those interviews. Anyway, who ran, the person who was responsible for the academic portions of the training or content of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't tell you because I experienced it as kid, as a volunteer. So I don't know all of the hierarchy, but I believe, I know we used FSI materials, Foreign Service Institute. We used their training program, and we use their grading scale of one plus, two plus, three minus, that kind of stuff. And I believe we might have had their people come in to do the testing. I don't know. The teachers. We would, most of the day was spent in going to classes from one class to another. There'd be maybe 40 minutes of class and you have a five minute break, then you go to another class. And most of them were language training. Some were cross-cultural training and some were teaching you about to be a teacher. But the language training classes were mostly run by people from the Francophone countries. There were a couple of French people and I think they were all contract workers, but many of them did it a lot, so they knew each other. And then there were some former Peace Corps volunteers too, who were doing it. So it was a mishmash. In fact, when I finished Peace Corps, I became a trainer for about six months. It was a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, we'll talk about that later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know. I wasn't aware of a university that did it, but I don't think so. But I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were there courses about the history of, in your case, of Chad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.948816190789966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I don't know. I wasn't aware of a university that did it, but I don't think so. But I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Were there courses about the history of, in your case, of Chad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say we had what we called cross-cultural training and that was there was some history involved, but the point of the training was to help us to be sensitive to another place, another culture when most of us had never been out of our own backyard, you know. And so they would try to teach us how people thought differently, how people acted differently than we might expect. And they would do that with historical and cultural roots. They wouldn't just say, well, these people are weird, they do this. This is how they came to speak French. This is how this is why they have this attitude towards school or something. So we would learn that. But it wasn't a history lesson, really. And we learned about the different regions of the country because we were allowed to choose where we wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is fabulous, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of the nice things about being in a small group of 13 people we got we really they treated us like individuals. And so, yeah, we learned, we learned as much as I think you can learn. And with that part was done by the Chadians. So they were very good at like saying, you can't say that if you're in Chad, Jane. And saying why, you know, and it would just be very they were very open with us and they knew how to how to chastise us for not being culturally sensitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example of something that an American might say or do that would be offensive in Chad?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.529402704678969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was one of the nice things about being in a small group of 13 people we got we really they treated us like individuals. And so, yeah, we learned, we learned as much as I think you can learn. And with that part was done by the Chadians. So they were very good at like saying, you can't say that if you're in Chad, Jane. And saying why, you know, and it would just be very they were very open with us and they knew how to how to chastise us for not being culturally sensitive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example of something that an American might say or do that would be offensive in Chad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my goodness. I can't think of it off the top of my head, I can think of. We were warned so often, and this was by the American Peace Corps people too, that we must not talk politics. And so there was a lot of political unrest in Chad then as there is now, and it was there was a virtual civil war starting in the country. And so they were very concerned that we not express an opinion in any political discussion and that we were kind of told that it's all, it's not any of your business, and it's all much more complicated than you can imagine. So as a teenager coming from the Vietnam War here, you're just going to want to jump right in and talk about what's fair and what's not. And these our Chadian teachers told us this, too. They said, you know, you just don't know how deeply the resentments lie and they're ethnic and they run along linguistic lines and racial lines. And you just you're going to be in a situation where people will want you to agree with them, and you just have to learn to listen politely and to answer noncommittally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was not something American students at that time knew how to do or even know now. But in the Vietnam era, it was. We were really activists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so did they tell you how to respond if Chadians were to ask you your opinion about the war in Vietnam?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.416946442241136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't say it, but I'm sure that was about CIA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. We all knew that. So, but no Americans I didn't know came to my town. It was pretty remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've described a really excellent training program. What do you feel it gave you as much preparation as possible to do what you later did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I really I really, really liked it. And I know training was very has been very uneven in different places over the years. This one was very well run it. It was out, it was out in the middle of nowhere, which is why they chose this place. It could have been. It was in Canada. Canada has nothing to do with Africa, but it's a French speaking country and it was very isolated. So we didn't have we didn't have a lot of distractions and we certainly didn't have any non-English speakers around aside from us later on. Then we did six weeks or two months of training in the country too. So we had this this language piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last in Quebec?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.24105160249015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. We all knew that. So, but no Americans I didn't know came to my town. It was pretty remote."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've described a really excellent training program. What do you feel it gave you as much preparation as possible to do what you later did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I really I really, really liked it. And I know training was very has been very uneven in different places over the years. This one was very well run it. It was out, it was out in the middle of nowhere, which is why they chose this place. It could have been. It was in Canada. Canada has nothing to do with Africa, but it's a French speaking country and it was very isolated. So we didn't have we didn't have a lot of distractions and we certainly didn't have any non-English speakers around aside from us later on. Then we did six weeks or two months of training in the country too. So we had this this language piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last in Quebec?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably six weeks. And then I think there was, I think it was three months all together between Quebec and then we went into Africa. The bigger groups like when Ivory Coast went to Ivory Coast, but Niger and Chad went together and we went to Niger to do student teaching. And I think I think there was a month of that, maybe two months in Canada, a month in Niger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in Canada, you were learning about methods of teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.156724002766834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I really I really, really liked it. And I know training was very has been very uneven in different places over the years. This one was very well run it. It was out, it was out in the middle of nowhere, which is why they chose this place. It could have been. It was in Canada. Canada has nothing to do with Africa, but it's a French speaking country and it was very isolated. So we didn't have we didn't have a lot of distractions and we certainly didn't have any non-English speakers around aside from us later on. Then we did six weeks or two months of training in the country too. So we had this this language piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that last in Quebec?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably six weeks. And then I think there was, I think it was three months all together between Quebec and then we went into Africa. The bigger groups like when Ivory Coast went to Ivory Coast, but Niger and Chad went together and we went to Niger to do student teaching. And I think I think there was a month of that, maybe two months in Canada, a month in Niger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in Canada, you were learning about methods of teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Canada, we had, yeah. They had a Peace Corps method and the five point method all in English. They had it very well. They had very well organized. They knew that none of us were teachers or most of us and that we didn't have a clue. So they worked up this method that was based on oral proficiency, mainly because that's what they were into. But they did do all the four, reading, writing and everything. But it was taught to us by former volunteers who had taught. So I think it was a very practical introduction. It was a very good method because it was not dependent on materials on textbooks, and that was good because we didn't have any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have textbooks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.174137780852037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably six weeks. And then I think there was, I think it was three months all together between Quebec and then we went into Africa. The bigger groups like when Ivory Coast went to Ivory Coast, but Niger and Chad went together and we went to Niger to do student teaching. And I think I think there was a month of that, maybe two months in Canada, a month in Niger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in Canada, you were learning about methods of teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Canada, we had, yeah. They had a Peace Corps method and the five point method all in English. They had it very well. They had very well organized. They knew that none of us were teachers or most of us and that we didn't have a clue. So they worked up this method that was based on oral proficiency, mainly because that's what they were into. But they did do all the four, reading, writing and everything. But it was taught to us by former volunteers who had taught. So I think it was a very practical introduction. It was a very good method because it was not dependent on materials on textbooks, and that was good because we didn't have any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have textbooks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But it was made to teach you how to take how to make a lesson from nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. Oh that's excellent."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.304597534280042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Canada, we had, yeah. They had a Peace Corps method and the five point method all in English. They had it very well. They had very well organized. They knew that none of us were teachers or most of us and that we didn't have a clue. So they worked up this method that was based on oral proficiency, mainly because that's what they were into. But they did do all the four, reading, writing and everything. But it was taught to us by former volunteers who had taught. So I think it was a very practical introduction. It was a very good method because it was not dependent on materials on textbooks, and that was good because we didn't have any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have textbooks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But it was made to teach you how to take how to make a lesson from nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. Oh that's excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I've always spent all my life as a teacher. People argue about textbooks and I just tune out, you know, give me whatever you want. I'll make. I'll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going to do what you know how to do. Your six weeks or so in Quebec comes to an end. Do you get to go home before flying overseas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.449552815866713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But it was made to teach you how to take how to make a lesson from nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful. Oh that's excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I've always spent all my life as a teacher. People argue about textbooks and I just tune out, you know, give me whatever you want. I'll make. I'll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going to do what you know how to do. Your six weeks or so in Quebec comes to an end. Do you get to go home before flying overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a break. It's like three days. We were going out of New York, so they got us to New York and I met my family there. We could do what we wanted to do for three days in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days in New York. But this isn't going home to go shopping."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.721725350963014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I've always spent all my life as a teacher. People argue about textbooks and I just tune out, you know, give me whatever you want. I'll make. I'll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going to do what you know how to do. Your six weeks or so in Quebec comes to an end. Do you get to go home before flying overseas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a break. It's like three days. We were going out of New York, so they got us to New York and I met my family there. We could do what we wanted to do for three days in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days in New York. But this isn't going home to go shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you could, I suppose, if that's what you wanted, if you had the funds to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you had arrived in Quebec with all the clothes you were going to take with you to Chad. Wow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.024139278847793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a break. It's like three days. We were going out of New York, so they got us to New York and I met my family there. We could do what we wanted to do for three days in New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three days in New York. But this isn't going home to go shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you could, I suppose, if that's what you wanted, if you had the funds to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you had arrived in Quebec with all the clothes you were going to take with you to Chad. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. With everything. And so but in New York, my parents came up from Washington and they we stayed in a hotel and we went to see Fiddler on the Roof. We never went to New York. It was a big deal, so it was like a big kind of celebration to see me off, and that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The boyfriend came too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.471265865386437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you could, I suppose, if that's what you wanted, if you had the funds to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you had arrived in Quebec with all the clothes you were going to take with you to Chad. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. With everything. And so but in New York, my parents came up from Washington and they we stayed in a hotel and we went to see Fiddler on the Roof. We never went to New York. It was a big deal, so it was like a big kind of celebration to see me off, and that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The boyfriend came too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, he was not. He was out of the picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just you and your parent in New York together. Three days sounds about right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.07918429487382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. With everything. And so but in New York, my parents came up from Washington and they we stayed in a hotel and we went to see Fiddler on the Roof. We never went to New York. It was a big deal, so it was like a big kind of celebration to see me off, and that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The boyfriend came too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, he was not. He was out of the picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just you and your parent in New York together. Three days sounds about right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. Yeah, I believe that at least one of those days I had bad diarrhea, which was kind of a thing. You know, showing what's going on, what lies ahead. I think I was sick for part of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you say goodbye to your parents and you go to the airport. Which airport would that have been?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.532426994304243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, he was not. He was out of the picture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was just you and your parent in New York together. Three days sounds about right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was good. Yeah, I believe that at least one of those days I had bad diarrhea, which was kind of a thing. You know, showing what's going on, what lies ahead. I think I was sick for part of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you say goodbye to your parents and you go to the airport. Which airport would that have been?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea. I didn't know New York. You could have taken me. I didn't know. I was at an airport with a bunch of kids. It was a full full of Peace Corps volunteers. The whole plane. And I know we saw Dr. Zhivago on the plane as the film and we had like an 18 hour stopover in Paris. And we got off the plane. We were dead tired. Nobody had slept the night before. Nobody had slept on the plane. We were dead tired, but we went out. I had something written in my diary about this. And we just went out through the town and went, saw everything, saw everything we'd ever heard of. And then we got back on the plane and went to Chad. Well, we went to Niger and then we stayed a month there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in Niamey?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.900806100533867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's the what they call the vax, wax. I have a bunch of it in there I can show you. It's the same as in Nigeria I think. It's a print and it's done. The good ones were done at that time in Holland, and they were done with the same techniques that Indonesia used the wax, the wax technique and that had been brought from Indonesia to Holland down to Africa. And so everybody wanted this one kind of material because it was well, it didn't run, you know. They were prints."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a kind of cotton?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was all cotton."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what colors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, bright, vibrant. Probably the same thing you were used to in Nigeria and a very, very beautiful patterns. A lot of geometric things, a lot of patterns. I loved it. I really loved it. And the ones that I thought were so were funny. I don't think I bought any. But every time they would have any kind of celebration or somebody would visit the country, they would make a special cloth with that person's name on it. So you would see them. And I just remember one time the Pope. This was on a later visit to Africa years later. But the Pope had visited Senegal, I think, and I saw a woman in the market and she had the Pope's face right on her. But, you know, and it was just so funny to me. I didn't say anything, but I was just I just loved it. I loved how people wore people's faces and things so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, tell us how you bargained for it. You did an excellent job on your first, how did you do it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.88978455614874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was all cotton."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what colors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, bright, vibrant. Probably the same thing you were used to in Nigeria and a very, very beautiful patterns. A lot of geometric things, a lot of patterns. I loved it. I really loved it. And the ones that I thought were so were funny. I don't think I bought any. But every time they would have any kind of celebration or somebody would visit the country, they would make a special cloth with that person's name on it. So you would see them. And I just remember one time the Pope. This was on a later visit to Africa years later. But the Pope had visited Senegal, I think, and I saw a woman in the market and she had the Pope's face right on her. But, you know, and it was just so funny to me. I didn't say anything, but I was just I just loved it. I loved how people wore people's faces and things so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, tell us how you bargained for it. You did an excellent job on your first, how did you do it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He told me, he said, first of all, you have to. I think I might have been with another African too. A Peace Corps returned volunteer who knew the deal and then another African, probably from Niger. And they told me they said, OK, you look at the cloth, but you don't zero in on anything, especially if you see something you like. Do not take any time to look at it. Just kind of it's there, but you can look at you can say, oh this is nice or that one's nice. Could I see this one? And meanwhile, you're getting an idea of what you're interested in and you start talking about the price. And you say, well, I don't have much money, but I think I would like to buy 500 meters of this and they would have. I don't know. And they say, oh well, what would you like to pay? So you're supposed to give the first price."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh so you begin? Oh dear."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.513869085249096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, except I would have they would have gotten a much better price than. I was sure. I always I knew that I was paying more, but I also knew that I had a lot more money than anybody else. But I just didn't want to be paying more than I needed to because I didn't have a lot of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all of this was part of training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, that's, it was all. We were surrounded by people with experience and who knew what we needed both. It was good to have American and African trainers, and they all worked together. They all we grew up, we grew together as a cross-cultural community and at nights we would, you know, sit around and ask each other questions that we knew we wouldn't be able to ask to anybody else, that we weren't close to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were making good friends among the volunteers that you were training with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But then we didn't see each other. We all went to separate town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Once training ended, you were spread out. When you were in Niamey for that part of training, where did you live?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.646043416017523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember we had a big ceremony for the end of the summer school for the kids, and it may have been altogether. I don't know. The one I remember was the prize giving ceremony, and it was really very nice. We gave them prizes and everybody spoke about how much we loved each other. And it was nice. Then I don't know about. I know, I know I was sworn in as a Peace Corps volunteer somewhere by somebody, but I don't know whether it was in Niger or in Fort Lamy. Fort Lamy was the name of the French name of the capital at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of Quebec?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of Chad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of Chad. Oh, that's right, because then you had to go on from Niamey to Chad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we had to go to Chad and we had like a week of staging there where we got to meet the director and the doctor and the different personnel. And then then we went up to our post. So it was probably, I think we met the ambassador during that time. I think that's when we were sworn in, but that was not a big deal. I, you know, that was maybe a big deal for them, but not for me. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the capital of Chad at that time, Fort Lamy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.717826017797247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of Chad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of Chad. Oh, that's right, because then you had to go on from Niamey to Chad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we had to go to Chad and we had like a week of staging there where we got to meet the director and the doctor and the different personnel. And then then we went up to our post. So it was probably, I think we met the ambassador during that time. I think that's when we were sworn in, but that was not a big deal. I, you know, that was maybe a big deal for them, but not for me. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the capital of Chad at that time, Fort Lamy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now they call it N'Djamena. They've changed it. They Africanized it right after I left, but Fort Lamy was what I always knew it as. And the thing that impressed that I remember most, I don't remember the swearing in ceremony, but I remember the doctor we had. Back then they had a lot of resources. They had one doctor for, for the volunteers in the country. And he told us, he said, any of you girls who are not on birth control, I want you to take some pills with you. And he said, And I want you to, if you just let me know when you need them, we will make sure that you have them. And I was like, no, no adult had ever given me any kind of permission to like, even talk about sex up until then. Not that I hadn't done it, but this was not something that you, you know, that a person in authority offering me birth control pills was one of the biggest shocks of my life, but it was very smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Smart and assuming and giving you credit for being a fully mature adult human being."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.908695575330274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then we had to go to Chad and we had like a week of staging there where we got to meet the director and the doctor and the different personnel. And then then we went up to our post. So it was probably, I think we met the ambassador during that time. I think that's when we were sworn in, but that was not a big deal. I, you know, that was maybe a big deal for them, but not for me. I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is the capital of Chad at that time, Fort Lamy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now they call it N'Djamena. They've changed it. They Africanized it right after I left, but Fort Lamy was what I always knew it as. And the thing that impressed that I remember most, I don't remember the swearing in ceremony, but I remember the doctor we had. Back then they had a lot of resources. They had one doctor for, for the volunteers in the country. And he told us, he said, any of you girls who are not on birth control, I want you to take some pills with you. And he said, And I want you to, if you just let me know when you need them, we will make sure that you have them. And I was like, no, no adult had ever given me any kind of permission to like, even talk about sex up until then. Not that I hadn't done it, but this was not something that you, you know, that a person in authority offering me birth control pills was one of the biggest shocks of my life, but it was very smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Smart and assuming and giving you credit for being a fully mature adult human being."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was way ahead of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're not a teenager anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.120772861478082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now they call it N'Djamena. They've changed it. They Africanized it right after I left, but Fort Lamy was what I always knew it as. And the thing that impressed that I remember most, I don't remember the swearing in ceremony, but I remember the doctor we had. Back then they had a lot of resources. They had one doctor for, for the volunteers in the country. And he told us, he said, any of you girls who are not on birth control, I want you to take some pills with you. And he said, And I want you to, if you just let me know when you need them, we will make sure that you have them. And I was like, no, no adult had ever given me any kind of permission to like, even talk about sex up until then. Not that I hadn't done it, but this was not something that you, you know, that a person in authority offering me birth control pills was one of the biggest shocks of my life, but it was very smart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Smart and assuming and giving you credit for being a fully mature adult human being."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was way ahead of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're not a teenager anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great and it was in the Peace Corps' best interest too, let me tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. So then your staging time in Fort Lamy was finished and you moved to the place where you were going to spend two years working, living and working as a Peace Corps volunteer? What was that place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.356414290531202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was way ahead of his time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're not a teenager anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great and it was in the Peace Corps' best interest too, let me tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. So then your staging time in Fort Lamy was finished and you moved to the place where you were going to spend two years working, living and working as a Peace Corps volunteer? What was that place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Abéché."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Abéché. And how did you get to Abéché?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.729349211701335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great and it was in the Peace Corps' best interest too, let me tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course. So then your staging time in Fort Lamy was finished and you moved to the place where you were going to spend two years working, living and working as a Peace Corps volunteer? What was that place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Abéché."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Abéché. And how did you get to Abéché?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a plane. You had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's pretty far away."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.254832457445927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was called Abéché."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Abéché. And how did you get to Abéché?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a plane. You had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's pretty far away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was far away and it was, there was danger at the time on the roads. There were armed marauders on the roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is one of the reasons why you'd fly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.949813841606584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took a plane. You had to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so it's pretty far away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was far away and it was, there was danger at the time on the roads. There were armed marauders on the roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is one of the reasons why you'd fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wouldn't let us go on the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Chad is a huge."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.72201537956287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was far away and it was, there was danger at the time on the roads. There were armed marauders on the roads."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is one of the reasons why you'd fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They wouldn't let us go on the road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Chad is a huge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chad is a big country. It's huge. So it would take several days otherwise. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where in Chad is Abéché?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.722493826420209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was. That was all I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. But when you got up to Abéché, you have to bargain in Chadian Arabic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's the only Chadian Arabic I knew. I tried very hard to learn Chadian Arabic and I had a tutor come to my house and everything. But I just I just my tutor didn't know what I didn't know, wasn't trained as a teacher. And I didn't know. I didn't know what to do so. And the people who learned the Arabic were those who, the volunteers were, those who didn't come with very good French. But if you went with good French like I did everybody, everybody in my profession, if you're in schooling, everybody spoke French, they could. So they would just speak French with you because it was easy. Nobody was going to take the time to to worry about, you know. So the only times that I was in only Chadian Arabic speaking groups was when I went to a colleague's house for dinner, say, and they would put me with the women to eat. And that's that was one of the big motivators for me because I wanted to speak to them. They usually would put me with the men at the beginning, and I'd say, you know, I'm not a man, you know, I feel funny in. But you're a teacher, right? You know, all of this. And so I felt like I had arrived when I got put with the women, but then I couldn't say anything. So I tried very hard to learn and I did. I did know, some and I certainly knew enough to bargain in the market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I've forgotten it all, but I was, yeah, I was able to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's talk about where you lived. And then later we'll go to school and talk about your job as a Peace Corps volunteer. But you took, you flew from Fort Lamy into Abéché. Did someone meet you at the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.48497658964624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The prefect's office, the government."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The governor's office, yeah. And found me a government house government owned house that was across from the market. It was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in town, you're not on the school compound, you're in town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I liked it. It had electricity. It had a sink with cold water. It, I think it had a shower. It didn't have. It had an outhouse in the back, but it was fine. I liked it. It was very loud because it was across, right across from the camel market. And, you know, camels are very loud. And on the other side was a bar that played Arabic music all night long. So it was it was very loud, but otherwise it was. It was a good place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do your own cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.240711839069434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I liked it. It had electricity. It had a sink with cold water. It, I think it had a shower. It didn't have. It had an outhouse in the back, but it was fine. I liked it. It was very loud because it was across, right across from the camel market. And, you know, camels are very loud. And on the other side was a bar that played Arabic music all night long. So it was it was very loud, but otherwise it was. It was a good place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do your own cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I that was one of the big shocks to me is that I didn't really know what I was going to do. They did provide you a refrigerator. That was one, they would let you have a refrigerator and Mobylette, a motorbike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was, those were the two things Peace Corps gave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Peace Corps gave you them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.045235376743815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I that was one of the big shocks to me is that I didn't really know what I was going to do. They did provide you a refrigerator. That was one, they would let you have a refrigerator and Mobylette, a motorbike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was, those were the two things Peace Corps gave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Peace Corps gave you them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we all could have that if we wanted. And when I got when I got up there, I had a note from somebody that said, the Peace Corps volunteer who was here before, Ed Lowe, said the refrigerator is at so and so's house and she knows she's supposed to give it to you. So I, you know, I don't know what to do about this, and he said, well, I'll ask her to come over. So she came over one day. It turns out she was a prostitute that he had been living with, and he left her the refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is a Chadian woman?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.939150418604239, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was, those were the two things Peace Corps gave you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Peace Corps gave you them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we all could have that if we wanted. And when I got when I got up there, I had a note from somebody that said, the Peace Corps volunteer who was here before, Ed Lowe, said the refrigerator is at so and so's house and she knows she's supposed to give it to you. So I, you know, I don't know what to do about this, and he said, well, I'll ask her to come over. So she came over one day. It turns out she was a prostitute that he had been living with, and he left her the refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is a Chadian woman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And so I didn't want to take a refrigerator from her. You know, it's like, Oh, it's also the last thing I was. But anyway, we wound up being pretty good friends. It turned out, actually, that the prostitutes in town were the ones that I could talk with because they had some French. They, you know, they worked with a lot. We had a lot of French soldiers in town. We had we had an army base, so. So anyway, they were real nice. I remember every once in a while my mother would say, What can I? What can I send you? And I'd say, send earrings, you know, because they were they were cheap and they're easy to send. So I always had earrings for my prostitute friends and it was fun. But anyway, I don't think I ever got the refrigerator, but I did get a Mobylette and that was nice.\n\nAnd so that was the first year, the second year I was a little disappointed because I was living in by myself and I had to have a cook. I had to hire a cook."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, the first year too you hired a cook?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.030393625264587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was provided by the local government."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Peace Corps didn't pay for it either, right? It was part of the deal. You get a Peace Corps volunteer if you provide housing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I think it might have been a different deal with every, every site. I mean, they probably had it. They negotiated whatever it was and the second year, I'm pretty sure I paid something, but it was very small. I just looked up today. I was looking through some of my Peace Corps souvenirs before you came in. I found a letter that it said every month they sent me 30,000 francs from Peace Corps in the capital, and that is 50 dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at that time anyway, 50 dollars a month."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.922659583627318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Peace Corps didn't pay for it either, right? It was part of the deal. You get a Peace Corps volunteer if you provide housing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I think it might have been a different deal with every, every site. I mean, they probably had it. They negotiated whatever it was and the second year, I'm pretty sure I paid something, but it was very small. I just looked up today. I was looking through some of my Peace Corps souvenirs before you came in. I found a letter that it said every month they sent me 30,000 francs from Peace Corps in the capital, and that is 50 dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at that time anyway, 50 dollars a month."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what it is now. So oh, so it would have been the equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's exactly what I got, the equivalent of $50 a month, which was more than adequate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.914066204030354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if I think it might have been a different deal with every, every site. I mean, they probably had it. They negotiated whatever it was and the second year, I'm pretty sure I paid something, but it was very small. I just looked up today. I was looking through some of my Peace Corps souvenirs before you came in. I found a letter that it said every month they sent me 30,000 francs from Peace Corps in the capital, and that is 50 dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was at that time anyway, 50 dollars a month."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what it is now. So oh, so it would have been the equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's exactly what I got, the equivalent of $50 a month, which was more than adequate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had money left over to buy lots of cloth. I really did not, I wanted this life of voluntary poverty, but I didn't get it. It turns out it's hard for an American to become poor and in the rest of the, or at least at that time. It was hard for a middle class American to do it. So yeah, things didn't cost anything. And so I had quite a bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in in your second. Well, let's wait to talk about the second year. Let's begin. I have all kinds of questions I want to ask you about the family you were living with, but let's go to school now. You've arrived. When did you start teaching, when you were still living in the in the guest house or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.015629115589281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's what it is now. So oh, so it would have been the equivalent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's exactly what I got, the equivalent of $50 a month, which was more than adequate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had money left over to buy lots of cloth. I really did not, I wanted this life of voluntary poverty, but I didn't get it. It turns out it's hard for an American to become poor and in the rest of the, or at least at that time. It was hard for a middle class American to do it. So yeah, things didn't cost anything. And so I had quite a bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in in your second. Well, let's wait to talk about the second year. Let's begin. I have all kinds of questions I want to ask you about the family you were living with, but let's go to school now. You've arrived. When did you start teaching, when you were still living in the in the guest house or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some time to settle in kind of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.795143461765868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had money left over to buy lots of cloth. I really did not, I wanted this life of voluntary poverty, but I didn't get it. It turns out it's hard for an American to become poor and in the rest of the, or at least at that time. It was hard for a middle class American to do it. So yeah, things didn't cost anything. And so I had quite a bit of money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So in in your second. Well, let's wait to talk about the second year. Let's begin. I have all kinds of questions I want to ask you about the family you were living with, but let's go to school now. You've arrived. When did you start teaching, when you were still living in the in the guest house or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some time to settle in kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's vague in my mind. Since that time I have been involved in teaching in different places in Africa as well as in France. And the biggest difference in our system and those is that nobody quite knows when school starts. Even in France, I mean, I went there for graduate school for a year and I kept trying to find out where is the course and what am I going to take? When do the classes start? Nobody knew. Like, it just happens. So this was the French system in Africa which made it even more informal. So it was like whenever the students show up or about this time.\n\nSo I think I arrived probably in late August, early September, and I don't think school started until sometime in October, but nobody really knew it'll happen. But not today, maybe not tomorrow. So but it just somehow happened. And so I did have time to get acclimated to this, get to know people. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to school. How far from your apartment, across the street from the market, to the lycee where you taught?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.439048290850964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have some time to settle in kind of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's vague in my mind. Since that time I have been involved in teaching in different places in Africa as well as in France. And the biggest difference in our system and those is that nobody quite knows when school starts. Even in France, I mean, I went there for graduate school for a year and I kept trying to find out where is the course and what am I going to take? When do the classes start? Nobody knew. Like, it just happens. So this was the French system in Africa which made it even more informal. So it was like whenever the students show up or about this time.\n\nSo I think I arrived probably in late August, early September, and I don't think school started until sometime in October, but nobody really knew it'll happen. But not today, maybe not tomorrow. So but it just somehow happened. And so I did have time to get acclimated to this, get to know people. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to school. How far from your apartment, across the street from the market, to the lycee where you taught?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my motorbike. It was walkable, but it would have been a 40 minute walk, maybe 30, five, 40 minute walk. And it was very hot, you remember? So the motorbike was a blessing. And the second year I was living right near it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get on your, what did you call it, a Mobylette?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.154498100945515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's vague in my mind. Since that time I have been involved in teaching in different places in Africa as well as in France. And the biggest difference in our system and those is that nobody quite knows when school starts. Even in France, I mean, I went there for graduate school for a year and I kept trying to find out where is the course and what am I going to take? When do the classes start? Nobody knew. Like, it just happens. So this was the French system in Africa which made it even more informal. So it was like whenever the students show up or about this time.\n\nSo I think I arrived probably in late August, early September, and I don't think school started until sometime in October, but nobody really knew it'll happen. But not today, maybe not tomorrow. So but it just somehow happened. And so I did have time to get acclimated to this, get to know people. It was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go to school. How far from your apartment, across the street from the market, to the lycee where you taught?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took my motorbike. It was walkable, but it would have been a 40 minute walk, maybe 30, five, 40 minute walk. And it was very hot, you remember? So the motorbike was a blessing. And the second year I was living right near it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get on your, what did you call it, a Mobylette?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mobylette."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Mobylette and you arrive at the school, describe the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.36357790240187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mobylette."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Mobylette and you arrive at the school, describe the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The school was one of the most impressive buildings in town, I think, with next to the mosque and it was next to the mosque. It was the most impressive building in town. It was a school that served a wide area. People came from all over to go to this school and they had boarding there. They had some boarding students, but also a lot of families would send their kids to live with relatives in the town and go there, so it drew from a wide region. And it was called the Lycèe Franco-Arabe d'Abéché. So it was French and Arabic, and it was half and half. They had different the different administrations on each side. They had different teaching staffs and they had different, I think the student bodies were different, too. I think there might have been some way that they took courses. Some of the students took courses in one part and the other, but they were pretty separate places. And in one place the teaching was all in Arabic and it was done by people. I don't know, I don't really know who they were. We didn't know them. We didn't have much to do with them. They might have been some people from the Middle East and some people from Chad, but all the instruction was in Arabic and it was geared towards the Middle East like these students were if they went to college afterwards, they were going to go to Sudan or Egypt or someplace like that. And ours was geared towards France and they were going to go, if they went to college, they would go to France. We didn't have a college in our country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Chad?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do now, but we didn't then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were all men or women or a mixture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.745157904199839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They do now, but we didn't then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were all men or women or a mixture?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The students? The students, they were mostly men. In the Arabic section, they probably were all men, I don't know. But in the in my section, I might have had one girl per class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would have a class of 45 or 50 students and there'd be one girl. That was very, very interesting because they tended to be the children of wealthy people and people who had probably had some Western education and wanted their kids to have education. It was a very hard thing for them because they were in an environment where, I mean, most of them, I think, were seen by the other kids as prostitutes. They were not well treated. And so a lot of them got pregnant early and they became a self-fulfilling prophecy that any time you send your girls to school, you ruin her. You know, she goes out, you send girls to school, they go out and then they get corrupted. And it would happen because that's the situation when you have one girl with 45 boys who aren't used to having a girl around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so she was either living in a dorm or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.4946198935553765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The students? The students, they were mostly men. In the Arabic section, they probably were all men, I don't know. But in the in my section, I might have had one girl per class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would have a class of 45 or 50 students and there'd be one girl. That was very, very interesting because they tended to be the children of wealthy people and people who had probably had some Western education and wanted their kids to have education. It was a very hard thing for them because they were in an environment where, I mean, most of them, I think, were seen by the other kids as prostitutes. They were not well treated. And so a lot of them got pregnant early and they became a self-fulfilling prophecy that any time you send your girls to school, you ruin her. You know, she goes out, you send girls to school, they go out and then they get corrupted. And it would happen because that's the situation when you have one girl with 45 boys who aren't used to having a girl around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so she was either living in a dorm or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She probably came from home. She would live with relatives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the relatives may or may not feel parental responsibility."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2162443261726406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would have a class of 45 or 50 students and there'd be one girl. That was very, very interesting because they tended to be the children of wealthy people and people who had probably had some Western education and wanted their kids to have education. It was a very hard thing for them because they were in an environment where, I mean, most of them, I think, were seen by the other kids as prostitutes. They were not well treated. And so a lot of them got pregnant early and they became a self-fulfilling prophecy that any time you send your girls to school, you ruin her. You know, she goes out, you send girls to school, they go out and then they get corrupted. And it would happen because that's the situation when you have one girl with 45 boys who aren't used to having a girl around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And so she was either living in a dorm or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She probably came from home. She would live with relatives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the relatives may or may not feel parental responsibility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, even if they did, once you let them, they weren't prepared to let their girls out of the house. This society. The girls stayed home. And if they went out, it was accompanied by a family member, male usually, or maybe women would go to the market and things. But they didn't. A 13 year old girl, didn't walk around on her own. And these kids, they just they were put in a situation where they had no support. But I don't believe their families knew what to do or even knew what was going to happen to them. And I think it was probably one of the hardest situations. I'm not saying they all got pregnant, but they just were very much fish out of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And there was really no one in their family to guide them to tell them what sort of behavior was okay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.018049251302934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She probably came from home. She would live with relatives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the relatives may or may not feel parental responsibility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, even if they did, once you let them, they weren't prepared to let their girls out of the house. This society. The girls stayed home. And if they went out, it was accompanied by a family member, male usually, or maybe women would go to the market and things. But they didn't. A 13 year old girl, didn't walk around on her own. And these kids, they just they were put in a situation where they had no support. But I don't believe their families knew what to do or even knew what was going to happen to them. And I think it was probably one of the hardest situations. I'm not saying they all got pregnant, but they just were very much fish out of water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And there was really no one in their family to guide them to tell them what sort of behavior was okay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None of the women had probably been to school, and you know, it's so different if you if you're in a place like, if even in the capital city, probably that would have been different. There would have been some women who had, would have been more women in the school and there would have been more guidance. But in Abéché, it was a very, very different kind of situation. And chances are, they may have been another north south thing. They may have been daughters of bureaucrats in town because those were mostly from the South. Those were people who had been educated in French when the French were there and were ready to take over those posts in independence. So like the postmaster's daughter, it might be her. And then she's not only the only girl, but the only person of her tribe, of her ethnicity. I mean, this is totally alone. Isolation, yeah. But anyway, I either did or didn't have one girl in a class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you step into the classroom and the kids are there, they stand up when you walk into the room."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.157817903021858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, I had been ready for them to be very passive and very, not passive, but very polite. Everybody had said this. They said, Jane, when you go to Chad, they are all going to stand up. They're going to call you Madame. They're going to just they're going to do everything to please you. Turns out that's what the kids in the South did, but not in my town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so what was it like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was horrible. It's everything they said it wasn't going to be. And I was five feet tall. I was 21 years old. And these kids were, the older ones were almost my age, you know, and they were tall and they were Muslim and they were. And they didn't have any idea who I was or what I was doing there. And I didn't know either. It's like, why am I teaching English to these kids? What the hell is this about, you know? But they told me to do it, and they told those guys to take it. So here we were, and so I tried. And it's very, the classroom management was a problem from the beginning because there's that many students, we had no materials and I did my best to give good lessons. But if somebody didn't want to listen or if somebody got up and walked around or did anything, I didn't I didn't have any authority. I didn't know how to do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're a woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're speaking to them in the language that they don't understand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.95313100335762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was horrible. It's everything they said it wasn't going to be. And I was five feet tall. I was 21 years old. And these kids were, the older ones were almost my age, you know, and they were tall and they were Muslim and they were. And they didn't have any idea who I was or what I was doing there. And I didn't know either. It's like, why am I teaching English to these kids? What the hell is this about, you know? But they told me to do it, and they told those guys to take it. So here we were, and so I tried. And it's very, the classroom management was a problem from the beginning because there's that many students, we had no materials and I did my best to give good lessons. But if somebody didn't want to listen or if somebody got up and walked around or did anything, I didn't I didn't have any authority. I didn't know how to do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're a woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're speaking to them in the language that they don't understand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they didn't have any idea why they were learning English, and a few of them did. I'm speaking in generalities. I had a few really wonderful students who were great, but it was a very bad discipline situation and I had a lot of problems. One time I walked, I went out to the parking lot to get my motorbike and somebody had slashed my tires. So I was really awful. I hated that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! That was a bad day."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.834198907212099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then one time I had a class go on strike. And that's big, big stuff. And they went on strike because they thought I had been unfair to one of the students who had been sick and I hadn't graded his test right or something, I don't know. And so it was the head of the lycee told me to stay away from school for a while until they straightened it out. And so I did. I went home. I was scared to death. I didn't know what to do. And then they finally had me come in and meet with the representatives of the class. And it was kind of humiliating. But I got back, but my headmaster provisoire, they called him. He didn't like me from the beginning, so he was not very helpful in solving this. He was from India."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had this, there's, I don't know if you had people like that in Nigeria, but there's a group of Indians who speak French from, I think, Pondicherry. It's a very small part of India that was colonized by the French, and they grow up learning in French and they're Indian. And so so they're very, they're more French than the French. Very, very proud of their achievements. And so he was in the French colonial system and he had a big post as a producer and he thought very well of himself. He was a big fish in a little pond and I was not probably as respectful. I'm sure I was not as respectful as I should have been or as he thought I should have been. And I didn't know all the etiquette. I was more concerned with etiquette with the Chadian people, and I didn't pay enough attention to this relationship. And so anyway, he didn't like me. But so that was that was hard. But I did wind up having overall a good experience in the classroom. It was just hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many different classes did you have to teach in a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.482443230235665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they had this, there's, I don't know if you had people like that in Nigeria, but there's a group of Indians who speak French from, I think, Pondicherry. It's a very small part of India that was colonized by the French, and they grow up learning in French and they're Indian. And so so they're very, they're more French than the French. Very, very proud of their achievements. And so he was in the French colonial system and he had a big post as a producer and he thought very well of himself. He was a big fish in a little pond and I was not probably as respectful. I'm sure I was not as respectful as I should have been or as he thought I should have been. And I didn't know all the etiquette. I was more concerned with etiquette with the Chadian people, and I didn't pay enough attention to this relationship. And so anyway, he didn't like me. But so that was that was hard. But I did wind up having overall a good experience in the classroom. It was just hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many different classes did you have to teach in a day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the same, were the all five classes the same? Or were they different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.546226210167488, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the same, were the all five classes the same? Or were they different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were different preparations. You know, the beginning and later and they had, I mean, they were all. It was quite a system. They had to follow the French curriculum. So in the French curriculum, everybody takes from the beginning of junior high school, they start a language, a foreign language. And they take it for three years and then they start second foreign language and they take that with the other foreign language for three years. So they have living language one and living language two. I think that's distinct from Latin and dead languages. But anyway, so so these kids came to school. When they came to school, they probably had six languages already, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they were they were from a very cosmopolitan area and it was just a very, they knew a lot of different African languages. So they came and they knew Arabic very well. And then they learned in French. So that's not even a foreign language in this system because it's the French system. So then they have to take living language one, and that would be either English or Arabic, I guess. The literary Arabic. And then they would take foreign language two, and that would be either English or the literary Arabic. So I was teaching some kids that were in first year of living language two and first year of living language one. Those were different stages, different classes, and then up to terminal. We didn't have that, that was the last year. They had to go to the capital for that. But the last year we had, was last year of the lycee there. So I had from beginners to the ones who. The young ones were easier and the ones in the last class were easier, but the ones in the middle who were just starting, they were the first. They were horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think that the older ones towards the end there would realize they had a final exam coming up and that would be a motivator."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.612624950824058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, they were they were from a very cosmopolitan area and it was just a very, they knew a lot of different African languages. So they came and they knew Arabic very well. And then they learned in French. So that's not even a foreign language in this system because it's the French system. So then they have to take living language one, and that would be either English or Arabic, I guess. The literary Arabic. And then they would take foreign language two, and that would be either English or the literary Arabic. So I was teaching some kids that were in first year of living language two and first year of living language one. Those were different stages, different classes, and then up to terminal. We didn't have that, that was the last year. They had to go to the capital for that. But the last year we had, was last year of the lycee there. So I had from beginners to the ones who. The young ones were easier and the ones in the last class were easier, but the ones in the middle who were just starting, they were the first. They were horrible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think that the older ones towards the end there would realize they had a final exam coming up and that would be a motivator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had exams. But see, it was so funny because when we taught to, they had to take these same exams that they had in France, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And with the baccalaureate and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Literature, French literature?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3489196923753797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And with the baccalaureate and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Literature, French literature?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. No, African literature, nothing. And so for the English in Chad, they had for the oral part, they had the Peace Corps volunteers giving the oral part of the English exam because we were the only people that could do, you know? So they had a written part. But the oral part counted a lot. And I got a nice trip up to a nice town to do it for a colleague and somebody came down to mine to do it for my students. And it turns out after that, after they had that exam, they came in and they said to me, Mademoiselle, they asked exactly the same questions you do. Because they thought that I was teaching them wrong because I was teaching this Aptiv method, oral. It wasn't like, sit down and copy this in your book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were really used to the old fashioned technique, and if I had done that, they probably would have behaved. But I was trying to get them to listen and participate. All the stuff, you know, so it was a losing proposition. But once they got the exam, they said, oh you were right. So yeah, that was the teaching.\n\nI remember when the when the headmaster took me around on a tour of the school, the first time I went in to see him and get acquainted. He took me around and he showed me. He said, OK, now here. And he opened this closet with the key. And he said, these are books, English books for the fourth level, and they were like a stack of books. And I said, wow, and I thought this is great. I'm going to have at least one level with books. And I said, well, can I give them to the students? And he said, no, because then we wouldn't have them. So that was kind of, that was the logic of the lycee. We could either have the books or use the books. We'd rather have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They look so nice on the shelves."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.134468756018987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were really used to the old fashioned technique, and if I had done that, they probably would have behaved. But I was trying to get them to listen and participate. All the stuff, you know, so it was a losing proposition. But once they got the exam, they said, oh you were right. So yeah, that was the teaching.\n\nI remember when the when the headmaster took me around on a tour of the school, the first time I went in to see him and get acquainted. He took me around and he showed me. He said, OK, now here. And he opened this closet with the key. And he said, these are books, English books for the fourth level, and they were like a stack of books. And I said, wow, and I thought this is great. I'm going to have at least one level with books. And I said, well, can I give them to the students? And he said, no, because then we wouldn't have them. So that was kind of, that was the logic of the lycee. We could either have the books or use the books. We'd rather have them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They look so nice on the shelves."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave me one copy so I could prepare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you teach without books? You step into the classroom. There's a chalkboard and chalk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not chalk. You have to bring your chalk. But there's a chalkboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And students have notebooks and pencils."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.59385417335443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They gave me one copy so I could prepare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you teach without books? You step into the classroom. There's a chalkboard and chalk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not chalk. You have to bring your chalk. But there's a chalkboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And students have notebooks and pencils."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have notebooks and pencils. Yeah. And you, most of the teachers would write things on the board for them to copy down and that would be the lesson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you using the method you had been taught in Canada. So what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.104282414838255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not chalk. You have to bring your chalk. But there's a chalkboard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And students have notebooks and pencils."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have notebooks and pencils. Yeah. And you, most of the teachers would write things on the board for them to copy down and that would be the lesson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you using the method you had been taught in Canada. So what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Today I'm teaching you a lesson. The five parts of it, one is there's a small text on your level, and we're going to prepare that text. So I pull out the vocabulary. I choose the text. I have a book at home that I choose something from. Whatever I use those, they gave me one of those fourth level books. I use that. But I had some other material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you copy that text onto the board or did you have a duplicating machine or something, a typewriter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.560313794264728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They have notebooks and pencils. Yeah. And you, most of the teachers would write things on the board for them to copy down and that would be the lesson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you using the method you had been taught in Canada. So what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Today I'm teaching you a lesson. The five parts of it, one is there's a small text on your level, and we're going to prepare that text. So I pull out the vocabulary. I choose the text. I have a book at home that I choose something from. Whatever I use those, they gave me one of those fourth level books. I use that. But I had some other material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you copy that text onto the board or did you have a duplicating machine or something, a typewriter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would decide like a paragraph. And so I would pull out the words from the paragraph in planning the lesson. I would say these are the words that they won't know. And then this is the grammar point that I'm going to. This is in this tense so we're going to work on this tense today. And so the five point lesson was introduction, where you warm them up and you review something from yesterday. Then you present the text, you write it on the board. No, you present the words. You work on the words. You write them on the board and then you present them and you get them. You don't give them the French equivalent. You act them out. You bring in visual aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no translation here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9559042158496966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Today I'm teaching you a lesson. The five parts of it, one is there's a small text on your level, and we're going to prepare that text. So I pull out the vocabulary. I choose the text. I have a book at home that I choose something from. Whatever I use those, they gave me one of those fourth level books. I use that. But I had some other material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you copy that text onto the board or did you have a duplicating machine or something, a typewriter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would decide like a paragraph. And so I would pull out the words from the paragraph in planning the lesson. I would say these are the words that they won't know. And then this is the grammar point that I'm going to. This is in this tense so we're going to work on this tense today. And so the five point lesson was introduction, where you warm them up and you review something from yesterday. Then you present the text, you write it on the board. No, you present the words. You work on the words. You write them on the board and then you present them and you get them. You don't give them the French equivalent. You act them out. You bring in visual aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no translation here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you do whatever you can to get them to understand. And if they don't want to, they won't, right. So you do that and then you give them. The third point would be a grammar lesson using those words somehow with whatever grammar point you're doing. And the fourth part would be the text. You'd bring up the text, you'd write it on the board, they would write it in their books and then you would work on it and understanding and learning it. And then the fifth part would be review everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And at some point the kids have to read the text too and pronounce the English correctly. I suppose."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.395449128721885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would decide like a paragraph. And so I would pull out the words from the paragraph in planning the lesson. I would say these are the words that they won't know. And then this is the grammar point that I'm going to. This is in this tense so we're going to work on this tense today. And so the five point lesson was introduction, where you warm them up and you review something from yesterday. Then you present the text, you write it on the board. No, you present the words. You work on the words. You write them on the board and then you present them and you get them. You don't give them the French equivalent. You act them out. You bring in visual aids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's no translation here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you do whatever you can to get them to understand. And if they don't want to, they won't, right. So you do that and then you give them. The third point would be a grammar lesson using those words somehow with whatever grammar point you're doing. And the fourth part would be the text. You'd bring up the text, you'd write it on the board, they would write it in their books and then you would work on it and understanding and learning it. And then the fifth part would be review everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And at some point the kids have to read the text too and pronounce the English correctly. I suppose."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's the fourth part. Yeah, but they were supposed to understand it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, this sounds extremely difficult. With the classroom management part being the hardest aspect of it. Were there times where you thought you would just quit and go home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.426480405829487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's the fourth part. Yeah, but they were supposed to understand it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, this sounds extremely difficult. With the classroom management part being the hardest aspect of it. Were there times where you thought you would just quit and go home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't about to go home. Everybody had told me, you won't make it. You know, you'll never last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really? Who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My parents, everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8238626786971395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was the ones who really wanted to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I got to know them and then got to know me. And that helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one of the big, big good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned having to fly to the capital city when you were really ill with dysentery one time. Was there no doctor in town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.582069642996822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I got to know them and then got to know me. And that helped a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one of the big, big good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned having to fly to the capital city when you were really ill with dysentery one time. Was there no doctor in town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some. There was an Indian doctor and there was a French doctor. Both of them spoke French and worked at a hospital there. And I went to them. But it was too. It was more than they could, I was really sick. They wanted me, I was losing weight and they just wanted me to go out and get help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're the only Peace Corps volunteer in this whole city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.424521825552024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was one of the big, big good things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned having to fly to the capital city when you were really ill with dysentery one time. Was there no doctor in town?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some. There was an Indian doctor and there was a French doctor. Both of them spoke French and worked at a hospital there. And I went to them. But it was too. It was more than they could, I was really sick. They wanted me, I was losing weight and they just wanted me to go out and get help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're the only Peace Corps volunteer in this whole city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first year, the second year they put another guy in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Was there a phone? If you were really in trouble, how would you communicate with the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.249468695057804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some. There was an Indian doctor and there was a French doctor. Both of them spoke French and worked at a hospital there. And I went to them. But it was too. It was more than they could, I was really sick. They wanted me, I was losing weight and they just wanted me to go out and get help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're the only Peace Corps volunteer in this whole city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first year, the second year they put another guy in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Was there a phone? If you were really in trouble, how would you communicate with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were phones. I didn't have a phone. There was one. There were phones in the lycee. I had a boyfriend who was French and he had a phone. He ran Alliance Francaise for the town, so I could use, I could ask him to make a call. There weren't many phones, but it was possible. It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you come to the end of your first year and there's probably school holidays."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.166076327842003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the first year, the second year they put another guy in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok. Was there a phone? If you were really in trouble, how would you communicate with the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were phones. I didn't have a phone. There was one. There were phones in the lycee. I had a boyfriend who was French and he had a phone. He ran Alliance Francaise for the town, so I could use, I could ask him to make a call. There weren't many phones, but it was possible. It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you come to the end of your first year and there's probably school holidays."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a break did you have there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.07341814204667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were phones. I didn't have a phone. There was one. There were phones in the lycee. I had a boyfriend who was French and he had a phone. He ran Alliance Francaise for the town, so I could use, I could ask him to make a call. There weren't many phones, but it was possible. It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you come to the end of your first year and there's probably school holidays."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a break did you have there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had this is a very interesting question, because people, I have a letter in there from some volunteer that I trained talking about, well we have the summer off. We just got an official communique from Peace Corps saying that we have 48 days of vacation and not one more, but somebody never told, you know. Anyway, so we had the summer off. But I agreed to. They asked me to come down to this town in the south to be part of the training, in-country training program for the new volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you'd been there for one year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.970464602274077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big a break did you have there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had this is a very interesting question, because people, I have a letter in there from some volunteer that I trained talking about, well we have the summer off. We just got an official communique from Peace Corps saying that we have 48 days of vacation and not one more, but somebody never told, you know. Anyway, so we had the summer off. But I agreed to. They asked me to come down to this town in the south to be part of the training, in-country training program for the new volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you'd been there for one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And so I did that for a month in the summer. But the previous part of the summer I planned a trip. All the expatriates in town went home for, all the French people went home for this summer and a lot of the students and teachers too, because they were not from that town. So it wasn't much point in sitting around the town, it wasn't anything going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their school vacation coincided with the European school vacation. June, July, August, sort of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.74496066919342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had this is a very interesting question, because people, I have a letter in there from some volunteer that I trained talking about, well we have the summer off. We just got an official communique from Peace Corps saying that we have 48 days of vacation and not one more, but somebody never told, you know. Anyway, so we had the summer off. But I agreed to. They asked me to come down to this town in the south to be part of the training, in-country training program for the new volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you'd been there for one year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And so I did that for a month in the summer. But the previous part of the summer I planned a trip. All the expatriates in town went home for, all the French people went home for this summer and a lot of the students and teachers too, because they were not from that town. So it wasn't much point in sitting around the town, it wasn't anything going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their school vacation coincided with the European school vacation. June, July, August, sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So I said, I'm going to see the rest of Africa, and I had a friend who I had met at the World Bank, who had gone over to become the secretary to the Africa mission in Abidjan, in Ivory Coast. And so she invited. She said, well, while you're over there you should come visit me. Chad to Ivory Coast is pretty far, a big distance. But I said, I'm just going to do this. So I got out the map and I started looking. And it's like all across the coast of West Africa. But I did it and I didn't occur to me that, you know, it was dangerous or whatever. I just said, this will work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear how you went."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.605511854659355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. And so I did that for a month in the summer. But the previous part of the summer I planned a trip. All the expatriates in town went home for, all the French people went home for this summer and a lot of the students and teachers too, because they were not from that town. So it wasn't much point in sitting around the town, it wasn't anything going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So their school vacation coincided with the European school vacation. June, July, August, sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So I said, I'm going to see the rest of Africa, and I had a friend who I had met at the World Bank, who had gone over to become the secretary to the Africa mission in Abidjan, in Ivory Coast. And so she invited. She said, well, while you're over there you should come visit me. Chad to Ivory Coast is pretty far, a big distance. But I said, I'm just going to do this. So I got out the map and I started looking. And it's like all across the coast of West Africa. But I did it and I didn't occur to me that, you know, it was dangerous or whatever. I just said, this will work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear how you went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went from Fort Lamy to Cameroon. I actually don't remember. I probably took a bush taxi to that. And then I went through Cameroon on a train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're going from north to south in Cameroon?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.11723539406595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So I said, I'm going to see the rest of Africa, and I had a friend who I had met at the World Bank, who had gone over to become the secretary to the Africa mission in Abidjan, in Ivory Coast. And so she invited. She said, well, while you're over there you should come visit me. Chad to Ivory Coast is pretty far, a big distance. But I said, I'm just going to do this. So I got out the map and I started looking. And it's like all across the coast of West Africa. But I did it and I didn't occur to me that, you know, it was dangerous or whatever. I just said, this will work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's hear how you went."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went from Fort Lamy to Cameroon. I actually don't remember. I probably took a bush taxi to that. And then I went through Cameroon on a train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're going from north to south in Cameroon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I went to the coast on a train and that was lovely. And then when I was in Cameroon, they had told me that I would not be able to go through Nigeria because it takes. You could only get a 24 hour visa and it would take more than 24 hours to get across. And so I said, well, what can I do? And they said, well, you can fly, you can fly in and out, but you still have to get a visa. You can't get a visa from Chad, you have to get it from Cameroon. So I went to the whatever Nigerian embassy in Cameroon and I said what I was going to do and I said I was going to go and stay one night in Lagos and then take the plane.\n\nTake the plane in and take the plane out. And they said, OK, so they gave me the thing. So I went, I took a plane to Lagos, so I got to Lagos, didn't know anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the Peace Corps office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.685817104517722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went from Fort Lamy to Cameroon. I actually don't remember. I probably took a bush taxi to that. And then I went through Cameroon on a train."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're going from north to south in Cameroon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I went to the coast on a train and that was lovely. And then when I was in Cameroon, they had told me that I would not be able to go through Nigeria because it takes. You could only get a 24 hour visa and it would take more than 24 hours to get across. And so I said, well, what can I do? And they said, well, you can fly, you can fly in and out, but you still have to get a visa. You can't get a visa from Chad, you have to get it from Cameroon. So I went to the whatever Nigerian embassy in Cameroon and I said what I was going to do and I said I was going to go and stay one night in Lagos and then take the plane.\n\nTake the plane in and take the plane out. And they said, OK, so they gave me the thing. So I went, I took a plane to Lagos, so I got to Lagos, didn't know anybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go to the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe there even wasn't one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.784959388293483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe there even wasn't one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea. I had no idea about any of that. I found a YWCA in Lagos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I met a cab driver at the airport. I mean, I got a cab driver at the airport, and it became clear to me after a while that he was not going to take me to the YWCA and he drove me all around. So I remember I got out my umbrella and I hit him and I got out of the car. That was the only bad thing that happened to me on the whole journey. Of course, it had to be in Lagos. But anyway, I stayed overnight in the YWCA. I flew out. So I only got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got into a different cab or something, right? You somehow got there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.141925170732695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I met a cab driver at the airport. I mean, I got a cab driver at the airport, and it became clear to me after a while that he was not going to take me to the YWCA and he drove me all around. So I remember I got out my umbrella and I hit him and I got out of the car. That was the only bad thing that happened to me on the whole journey. Of course, it had to be in Lagos. But anyway, I stayed overnight in the YWCA. I flew out. So I only got."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got into a different cab or something, right? You somehow got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So then the next place, what's on the other side?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dahomey."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went to Dahomey and I stayed there, and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We might mention that Dahomey is now Benin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.9354724119252165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So then the next place, what's on the other side?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dahomey."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I went to Dahomey and I stayed there, and I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We might mention that Dahomey is now Benin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but the people of Benin would like it to be Dahomey again, I think, because that was just perfectly good African name, it was. Anyway, so then I went to Togo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going along the coast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.10552149620397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but the people of Benin would like it to be Dahomey again, I think, because that was just perfectly good African name, it was. Anyway, so then I went to Togo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're going along the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm going along. And then it's all after Lagos, everything, well, Cameroon was beautiful. And then Togo, Dahomey, Ghana on the coast. It was like paradise. It was just beautiful. And it was very, it was very pristine at that time, you know, nothing was polluted and it was it was a beautiful place and it was very safe. What I was doing was very safe. I took bush taxis where you would get in a taxi and five other people would get in and you'd go from one point to the other. I met people at various points. There are a couple of Peace Corps volunteers I met in different places and they were going someplace, so I would go with them to that place, or sometimes I would stay in a Peace Corps volunteer's house, sometimes. I remember I spent one night up on the roof of one of those slave castles in Ghana. It was very beautiful and very, very lovely place. It was just it was let's just see what's next kind of thing.\n\nAnd then I went through Ghana and then up and down. I think there was some problem going across the border on the coast. So I went up north and down south to Abidjan, and I stayed in Abidjan for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took me, I think it took me about two weeks to get across and I stayed in Abidjan for almost two weeks and then I took the plane back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, in Abidjan, you could speak French."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3394683291155225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I'm going along. And then it's all after Lagos, everything, well, Cameroon was beautiful. And then Togo, Dahomey, Ghana on the coast. It was like paradise. It was just beautiful. And it was very, it was very pristine at that time, you know, nothing was polluted and it was it was a beautiful place and it was very safe. What I was doing was very safe. I took bush taxis where you would get in a taxi and five other people would get in and you'd go from one point to the other. I met people at various points. There are a couple of Peace Corps volunteers I met in different places and they were going someplace, so I would go with them to that place, or sometimes I would stay in a Peace Corps volunteer's house, sometimes. I remember I spent one night up on the roof of one of those slave castles in Ghana. It was very beautiful and very, very lovely place. It was just it was let's just see what's next kind of thing.\n\nAnd then I went through Ghana and then up and down. I think there was some problem going across the border on the coast. So I went up north and down south to Abidjan, and I stayed in Abidjan for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It took me, I think it took me about two weeks to get across and I stayed in Abidjan for almost two weeks and then I took the plane back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, in Abidjan, you could speak French."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My God, in Abidjan, it was like Paris. They called it the Paris of Africa. It was. And these people, the World Bank people, they were living the good life. I mean, they still do. But my boss from back in the States was the one in charge of the mission. So they treated me royally. They took me out every night to discotheques and I got all kinds of really pretty clothes made out of African fabrics and I just had the best time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're describing a vacation!"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9745793266330893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, and it was like the absolute opposite of what I had just been living for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Patricia was a very, very nice woman, and I lived with her in a fancy apartment and air conditioning and everything. So then I went, I took a plane and I went back to Chad to teach this stage, this training group. And then I went back up to Abéché for the second year. Yeah, it was great. I'm really glad I took that vacation. I think I think it is a trip that you could not, nobody could take it right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just wouldn't be. It wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't be feasible, particularly, and it would not be safe. It would not, not be safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially for a woman traveling alone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7086136167806436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my god. Yeah, I mean, it's the kind of thing that my parents, I don't actually think I told them that I was doing it probably. I mean, I probably told them I was going to go see somebody, but I didn't tell them I was doing what I was doing, and it was the kind of thing that it was safe in Africa to do things that it wasn't safe in America to do at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, people. I mean, everybody was afraid when I went to Africa, oh my god, you're going to get eaten by tribes of this and you're going to have this and that. And it was like, it turned out to be like the nicest, safest place to be, didn't you find that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I've never felt safer in my life. So but now it's not that way. And I know from having gone back and I just would not do that. But I'm glad I did it when I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you could, right. The time was right. So eventually you go back up to Abéché and begin your second year and now you're living with in a family in there within their compound. Talk about that a little bit. You had your own little house within their compound."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.343967428124251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I've never felt safer in my life. So but now it's not that way. And I know from having gone back and I just would not do that. But I'm glad I did it when I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you could, right. The time was right. So eventually you go back up to Abéché and begin your second year and now you're living with in a family in there within their compound. Talk about that a little bit. You had your own little house within their compound."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The master of the compound, who was my friend, who was the teacher, he had gone to teach in the capital. And so his room, which was the best room, was empty and he gave it to me. He let me rent it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's a room."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.715519364582501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The master of the compound, who was my friend, who was the teacher, he had gone to teach in the capital. And so his room, which was the best room, was empty and he gave it to me. He let me rent it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's a room."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's yeah, the compound is built in a square and the rooms, I don't think they're not freestanding huts in there. They're like built onto the square. So it's like a room here and then they're in a room there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there an open air patio in the middle of the square?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.587060943929013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's yeah, the compound is built in a square and the rooms, I don't think they're not freestanding huts in there. They're like built onto the square. So it's like a room here and then they're in a room there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there an open air patio in the middle of the square?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is open there, but there was a privacy wall that went halfway down the middle. So he had that, that privacy and that was. I got the spot that was like the master spot. So I had I had some privacy. But they had to go into my part of the compound to get to their part around the wall. So I mean, I saw everybody. But it was a very good situation because they lived their life in their part of the compound outside, and I could go there and participate with them anytime I wanted to. But in my part of the compound, we didn't congregate a lot, so I had my bed outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a mosquito net."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that would be cooler then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.096734382143348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is open there, but there was a privacy wall that went halfway down the middle. So he had that, that privacy and that was. I got the spot that was like the master spot. So I had I had some privacy. But they had to go into my part of the compound to get to their part around the wall. So I mean, I saw everybody. But it was a very good situation because they lived their life in their part of the compound outside, and I could go there and participate with them anytime I wanted to. But in my part of the compound, we didn't congregate a lot, so I had my bed outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a mosquito net."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that would be cooler then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very hot. I think I might have put it inside during or had. No, I think it was always outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have the Harmattan there, where dust would blow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.551927091270386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a mosquito net."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that would be cooler then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very hot. I think I might have put it inside during or had. No, I think it was always outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have the Harmattan there, where dust would blow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I remember that in Senegal, I don't remember storms in Chad. But no, I did have a bed inside too at some point during the year, but it was mostly outside that it was. And then I would sit in my part of the courtyard and prepare my lessons. I would sit outside. It was it was too hot to be inside anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you had been given a desk or a table."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.057696768078206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was very hot. I think I might have put it inside during or had. No, I think it was always outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have the Harmattan there, where dust would blow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that. I remember that in Senegal, I don't remember storms in Chad. But no, I did have a bed inside too at some point during the year, but it was mostly outside that it was. And then I would sit in my part of the courtyard and prepare my lessons. I would sit outside. It was it was too hot to be inside anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you had been given a desk or a table."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have a table. It was inside. Yeah, but I would usually sit outside because I was or read or something because it was so hot. And so when people would come in, they would greet me and they would always. It was so funny. They would always say, what's wrong, Jane? Why are you sitting here all alone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Arabic, they would be saying this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.244070084047168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have a table. It was inside. Yeah, but I would usually sit outside because I was or read or something because it was so hot. And so when people would come in, they would greet me and they would always. It was so funny. They would always say, what's wrong, Jane? Why are you sitting here all alone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, in Arabic, they would be saying this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this this family spoke French. Some of them spoke Arabic, but both. Some combination of it. They would be asking me, you know, what's up? Because there were a couple of them that were students at the lycee. Some of the women, I think, spoke some Arabic, and I don't remember all that. But I was learning some Arabic anyway. So why are you sitting all alone? And I would sometimes then go over and join them. But it was really clear to me that sitting alone to read or to write to my parents or so, that was an American thing, and I was happy. I was very happy doing that. But they thought I was just sad, so they felt really sorry for me. So that was a big cultural lesson to me. And so I would go over and somebody was always cooking something. There were always two or three babies walking around and running around, and there was somebody plaiting somebody's hair and it was just, you know, it was just a busy family compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ate together with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.005024795119961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ate together with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember that. I think I did sometimes, and I think I had. No, I think I usually ate with them because I had I hired a woman to come and make me tea in the morning. Oh, and I think she did my laundry too. I'm not sure, but I didn't. I think I might have eaten. I didn't eat very well when I was in Chad. But yeah, I probably ate with them and they became friends. They were good friends of mine, all different generations. And I had to have a guardian. There was a cot inside the entrance, inside the door to the concession and a guardian slept on that cot and I hired him to watch out for the for me all night, you know? And the one thing that was funny about that was there was one holiday. I don't remember if it was the end of Ramadan or one of the big holidays where they do a three day celebration. And he said, I'm going to go home and be with my family. And I said, no, you're not, because this was the time when they had these celebrations that everybody would drink. You know, it'll be crimes and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If ever you needed a guardian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, this is the night I need you. He said, no, I can't do it. So we had quite a discussion with the people in my family and he and I had a discussion and he arranged to get somebody else to come and do his job. And it was really it was really very interesting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you for advocating for yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4500275501332895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember that. I think I did sometimes, and I think I had. No, I think I usually ate with them because I had I hired a woman to come and make me tea in the morning. Oh, and I think she did my laundry too. I'm not sure, but I didn't. I think I might have eaten. I didn't eat very well when I was in Chad. But yeah, I probably ate with them and they became friends. They were good friends of mine, all different generations. And I had to have a guardian. There was a cot inside the entrance, inside the door to the concession and a guardian slept on that cot and I hired him to watch out for the for me all night, you know? And the one thing that was funny about that was there was one holiday. I don't remember if it was the end of Ramadan or one of the big holidays where they do a three day celebration. And he said, I'm going to go home and be with my family. And I said, no, you're not, because this was the time when they had these celebrations that everybody would drink. You know, it'll be crimes and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If ever you needed a guardian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, this is the night I need you. He said, no, I can't do it. So we had quite a discussion with the people in my family and he and I had a discussion and he arranged to get somebody else to come and do his job. And it was really it was really very interesting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you for advocating for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. I was just like, this can't happen. But anyway, that though, so that was my and they built an enclosed outhouse and shower for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.944475055703655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said, this is the night I need you. He said, no, I can't do it. So we had quite a discussion with the people in my family and he and I had a discussion and he arranged to get somebody else to come and do his job. And it was really it was really very interesting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good for you for advocating for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. I was just like, this can't happen. But anyway, that though, so that was my and they built an enclosed outhouse and shower for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there had been a hole in the ground before and they just enclosed it. So I had a hole in the ground. But I had and the shower was another separately half walled part that I took a tea kettle into and did this with. You know, it's just it was really nice. Yeah. So that was what I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So here you are. You're not Muslim. You're living in an Islamic culture and now you're inside the family walls with an Islamic family. Were the women there veiled?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.493861173004061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh my gosh. I was just like, this can't happen. But anyway, that though, so that was my and they built an enclosed outhouse and shower for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there had been a hole in the ground before and they just enclosed it. So I had a hole in the ground. But I had and the shower was another separately half walled part that I took a tea kettle into and did this with. You know, it's just it was really nice. Yeah. So that was what I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So here you are. You're not Muslim. You're living in an Islamic culture and now you're inside the family walls with an Islamic family. Were the women there veiled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, but they weren't. They called them veils, what they were. But what it was, was they were these beautiful silk scarves with beautiful, with gorgeous sequins and things on them. I mean, every holiday, the women were given a gift by the husband, and if there were three wives, there were three of equal value, of a scarf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is a polygamist culture. Even inside your family where you live? Were there more than one wife?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.104290192226734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there had been a hole in the ground before and they just enclosed it. So I had a hole in the ground. But I had and the shower was another separately half walled part that I took a tea kettle into and did this with. You know, it's just it was really nice. Yeah. So that was what I had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So here you are. You're not Muslim. You're living in an Islamic culture and now you're inside the family walls with an Islamic family. Were the women there veiled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, but they weren't. They called them veils, what they were. But what it was, was they were these beautiful silk scarves with beautiful, with gorgeous sequins and things on them. I mean, every holiday, the women were given a gift by the husband, and if there were three wives, there were three of equal value, of a scarf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is a polygamist culture. Even inside your family where you live? Were there more than one wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not in the compound where I was, but across the street with the patriarch and his wives. But so they wore these. They wore beautiful clothes and there was nothing. The veil was like the dance of the seven veils. You know, the veil is to make it mysterious and sexy. And they were just, it never occurred to me that they were being hidden by these because they were being enhanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there wasn't a hijab thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.782544658029704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, but they weren't. They called them veils, what they were. But what it was, was they were these beautiful silk scarves with beautiful, with gorgeous sequins and things on them. I mean, every holiday, the women were given a gift by the husband, and if there were three wives, there were three of equal value, of a scarf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, this is a polygamist culture. Even inside your family where you live? Were there more than one wife?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not in the compound where I was, but across the street with the patriarch and his wives. But so they wore these. They wore beautiful clothes and there was nothing. The veil was like the dance of the seven veils. You know, the veil is to make it mysterious and sexy. And they were just, it never occurred to me that they were being hidden by these because they were being enhanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there wasn't a hijab thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never saw that. Maybe today, today you would see it, I'm sure, but not then. More like Indian women, you know how they wear these beautiful? It was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, there's a loveliness. So you didn't find people somehow disrespecting you or something because you were not veiled?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.536160731144116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not in the compound where I was, but across the street with the patriarch and his wives. But so they wore these. They wore beautiful clothes and there was nothing. The veil was like the dance of the seven veils. You know, the veil is to make it mysterious and sexy. And they were just, it never occurred to me that they were being hidden by these because they were being enhanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so there wasn't a hijab thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never saw that. Maybe today, today you would see it, I'm sure, but not then. More like Indian women, you know how they wear these beautiful? It was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, there's a loveliness. So you didn't find people somehow disrespecting you or something because you were not veiled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself putting on a veil, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.373511923493462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never saw that. Maybe today, today you would see it, I'm sure, but not then. More like Indian women, you know how they wear these beautiful? It was like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, there's a loveliness. So you didn't find people somehow disrespecting you or something because you were not veiled?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself putting on a veil, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I would have stood out if I put on a veil. I think, it was a sophisticated enough town that they knew that they knew enough white people and had known enough white people, mostly French, that we did things differently. And if I had tried to look or act like them, I think they might have interpreted as, especially at the beginning, they might have interpreted as she's making fun of us or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have to have it be given to you as a gift or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.192791026103846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find yourself putting on a veil, too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I would have stood out if I put on a veil. I think, it was a sophisticated enough town that they knew that they knew enough white people and had known enough white people, mostly French, that we did things differently. And if I had tried to look or act like them, I think they might have interpreted as, especially at the beginning, they might have interpreted as she's making fun of us or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have to have it be given to you as a gift or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as time went by, yeah, I did. I did do things like that and I did as I became felt part of things. I felt that I could do things more in their way. But that was that was one of the big social aspects of my town, the distance between Europeans and Chadians. And it was very pronounced in my town because there were a number of French people and there was also an army base there that we didn't really associate with much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was Chadian Army?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.103101140115385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think I would have stood out if I put on a veil. I think, it was a sophisticated enough town that they knew that they knew enough white people and had known enough white people, mostly French, that we did things differently. And if I had tried to look or act like them, I think they might have interpreted as, especially at the beginning, they might have interpreted as she's making fun of us or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would have to have it be given to you as a gift or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as time went by, yeah, I did. I did do things like that and I did as I became felt part of things. I felt that I could do things more in their way. But that was that was one of the big social aspects of my town, the distance between Europeans and Chadians. And it was very pronounced in my town because there were a number of French people and there was also an army base there that we didn't really associate with much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was Chadian Army?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French? Still there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.114556822350428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But as time went by, yeah, I did. I did do things like that and I did as I became felt part of things. I felt that I could do things more in their way. But that was that was one of the big social aspects of my town, the distance between Europeans and Chadians. And it was very pronounced in my town because there were a number of French people and there was also an army base there that we didn't really associate with much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was Chadian Army?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, French."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French? Still there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The French people didn't know. It turned out to be a scandal. They were based in Senegal and they would send people over to Abéché. But it was for this rebellion that was that was happening. And so they were there. I didn't know any of them, but the guys sometimes went over there to drink with them and stuff. But so they were very separate communities and the French made no. They were not interested in and they didn't make any effort to get to know Chadian people other than as their students or patients or cooks or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But here you are, breaking that mold by moving in with a family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.01797138561781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The French people didn't know. It turned out to be a scandal. They were based in Senegal and they would send people over to Abéché. But it was for this rebellion that was that was happening. And so they were there. I didn't know any of them, but the guys sometimes went over there to drink with them and stuff. But so they were very separate communities and the French made no. They were not interested in and they didn't make any effort to get to know Chadian people other than as their students or patients or cooks or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But here you are, breaking that mold by moving in with a family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And I was very, it was the hardest thing for me. The whole two years I was there, to negotiate those two communities because I didn't want to alienate either one. I wanted to know both of them. I knew that I had gone there to meet and work with the Chadians. But I also knew that from the moment I got in there that the Chadians expected me to be with the French, with the other white people. They didn't make that differentiation, American and French. And also that there were aspects of the French society that I liked and wanted to be part of. And, you know, I majored in French in college. You know, so that was something I didn't want to turn my back on that group. But it was like I had two lives. I would be invited here this night and here this night. And it was they didn't really intersect much and it was very, it was very difficult. It was mostly difficult to sit and listen to the French say horrible things about the Chadians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, that was, I had to hold my tongue a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who did you hang out with to keep yourself sane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.034532574836803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, that was, I had to hold my tongue a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who did you hang out with to keep yourself sane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My boyfriend, this French guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the director of the Alliance Francaise in town, which was a good. It was a. I don't know if you know the Alliance Francaises in the world. They're like cultural centers, French cultural centers. And so he had a library and he taught classes in French for people who were not at the school, for people who either couldn't get into the school or whatever. The students were not as good as those in the lycee, but he had students every day come. And then once a week, he showed a French film. They would send him a French film and we went to this courtyard that had the projection, and it was always funny because the either the reels were mixed up and we'd see the beginning at the end or sometimes there would be three different reels for different films. There was always something, but he was very nice and he was very. He was my first one, well no, my fiance was my first real boyfriend, but we were very serious. For two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the whole two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.927258416485335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My boyfriend, this French guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the director of the Alliance Francaise in town, which was a good. It was a. I don't know if you know the Alliance Francaises in the world. They're like cultural centers, French cultural centers. And so he had a library and he taught classes in French for people who were not at the school, for people who either couldn't get into the school or whatever. The students were not as good as those in the lycee, but he had students every day come. And then once a week, he showed a French film. They would send him a French film and we went to this courtyard that had the projection, and it was always funny because the either the reels were mixed up and we'd see the beginning at the end or sometimes there would be three different reels for different films. There was always something, but he was very nice and he was very. He was my first one, well no, my fiance was my first real boyfriend, but we were very serious. For two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I almost married him, but I didn't. I went home and then the next summer, I went to France to meet him. And went, we spent the summer in France. He met me in Paris and we spent a little time in Paris and then we went on a trip around France, visiting all of the people we knew in Chad that were home. We visited them in their houses and they treated us so well. And it was such a wonderful thing because I was able to be in French homes with French people and not feel uncomfortable. You know, I felt like I was in this culture in the place where this culture was supposed to be, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By you also knew, you had known each other in Chad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.639586305192502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew these people and I cared a lot. We had a lot in common. And they, you know, they were in their family home. So we met their mothers. They cooked us these big meals. It was just it was lovely. But I did decide after that summer that I didn't want to live with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And you had said that your former fiance from the states also came out to visit you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came the first year. Yeah. I was not really pleased that he was coming, but I didn't tell him not to come. And that was a huge trip to make back then. Today it's not much, but I mean, it was really something. The thing that bothered me the most was when he got there, he said, your sister gave me some brownies and a teddy bear to bring you, and I just didn't have room for them. And that was the end. You know, you understand. I see you nodding. It was like, OK, that's that. So we wound up. I tried. And my boyfriend, who I didn't tell him was my boyfriend, tried to be nice to him and find people for him to play chess with while I was at school or something like that. We, you know, we tried, but it was just not working out and we had a couple of disagreements and I told him to leave and he said, well, my ticket isn't back isn't until this date. And I said, Well, go spend it down in the capital and just get out of here. So that was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very clear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it was good. So it was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to say about your time right there up in Abéché? Have we covered all the important stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.643935840866485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but when I got on the camel on this camping trip, it was wonderful because the camel, once you get on them and get up, they don't want, they just go along. It's like being on a boat, you know, and even if they gallop, you're not very. They're, you're very secure. The camel saddles are very big and you're just secure. So I thought I wasn't worried about writing this camel as long as somebody would help me put him up and down. There was always somebody to do that, and it was just very, very nice. I loved it.\n\nAnd so those were those were a couple of things that were good for me during that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful memories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a huge life there. There was a woman that lived in my town. She was a French woman, but she had been there for years and years and years. And she was kind of a recluse. But she had a compound with animals and she just loved animals. So she had you. If you went to see her, she had ostriches and she had lots of different geese and she had rabbits and ostrich was the most exotic thing she had. I'm not sure what else that would be really interesting. But I went to see her and I got her to give me two rabbits because I had always wanted to have rabbits as pets. So she did, and I took them home and it turned that rabbits are crummy pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they're messy and smelly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put these little pellets all the house, and they scratched me. They didn't want me. I wanted to sit and pet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cuddle with them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.93770648985165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a huge life there. There was a woman that lived in my town. She was a French woman, but she had been there for years and years and years. And she was kind of a recluse. But she had a compound with animals and she just loved animals. So she had you. If you went to see her, she had ostriches and she had lots of different geese and she had rabbits and ostrich was the most exotic thing she had. I'm not sure what else that would be really interesting. But I went to see her and I got her to give me two rabbits because I had always wanted to have rabbits as pets. So she did, and I took them home and it turned that rabbits are crummy pets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they're messy and smelly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put these little pellets all the house, and they scratched me. They didn't want me. I wanted to sit and pet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cuddle with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a different kind of rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's called a bunny."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.3752294331685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They put these little pellets all the house, and they scratched me. They didn't want me. I wanted to sit and pet them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cuddle with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a different kind of rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's called a bunny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So anyway, they didn't last. I took them back and said thank you. But then she gave me a couple of geese. I put some geese in the yard. I don't know why I had those, but I did. And. They were okay, but they were kind of messy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they can, geese can also be mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.972477147964998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a different kind of rabbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's called a bunny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So anyway, they didn't last. I took them back and said thank you. But then she gave me a couple of geese. I put some geese in the yard. I don't know why I had those, but I did. And. They were okay, but they were kind of messy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they can, geese can also be mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but somehow I kept them for a while and then I had a cat and then I had a dog, so I had a number of cats, I had four. So it was a very it was a very nice life. Teaching was the least good part of it. But it was good enough that when I came back here, I knew I wanted to be a teacher and I didn't. I didn't want to be a teacher before then because my mother had been a teacher and everybody thought that women should be teachers. And I didn't know what I wanted to be, but I didn't want to be a teacher. So I went into the Peace Corps and they said, you're going to be a teacher because that's all I was. What did they call us? AB generalist. That means you can do nothing, right? You don't know how to do anything, so we'll make you be a teacher. So I said, OK. So that was when I learned that I loved teaching then, even though I knew I couldn't do it, it was like, damn, I'm going to get this right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this is fascinating because the teaching part of your whole experience was the most difficult and the most frustrating. You had students who were not cooperative and yet you came home determined to be a teacher."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.1388606765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but somehow I kept them for a while and then I had a cat and then I had a dog, so I had a number of cats, I had four. So it was a very it was a very nice life. Teaching was the least good part of it. But it was good enough that when I came back here, I knew I wanted to be a teacher and I didn't. I didn't want to be a teacher before then because my mother had been a teacher and everybody thought that women should be teachers. And I didn't know what I wanted to be, but I didn't want to be a teacher. So I went into the Peace Corps and they said, you're going to be a teacher because that's all I was. What did they call us? AB generalist. That means you can do nothing, right? You don't know how to do anything, so we'll make you be a teacher. So I said, OK. So that was when I learned that I loved teaching then, even though I knew I couldn't do it, it was like, damn, I'm going to get this right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this is fascinating because the teaching part of your whole experience was the most difficult and the most frustrating. You had students who were not cooperative and yet you came home determined to be a teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put it on myself. It was like I didn't know how to reach those kids. It was my, and I and I think it was, I mean, it wasn't their fault. They were in their country and I was just I couldn't do it. So I came back here and I said, all right, I'm going to try to save poor kids in America. I'll know their culture, right? So I went back to school after doing a bunch of stuff, including Peace Corps training, I went back to University of Chicago, got a master's in elementary education, and then I went to North Carolina, to the country, to a newly integrated school down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This would have been 1973 or '74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'74, '76. Two years. And I taught second grade there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where in North Carolina?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.598734084999998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I put it on myself. It was like I didn't know how to reach those kids. It was my, and I and I think it was, I mean, it wasn't their fault. They were in their country and I was just I couldn't do it. So I came back here and I said, all right, I'm going to try to save poor kids in America. I'll know their culture, right? So I went back to school after doing a bunch of stuff, including Peace Corps training, I went back to University of Chicago, got a master's in elementary education, and then I went to North Carolina, to the country, to a newly integrated school down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This would have been 1973 or '74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'74, '76. Two years. And I taught second grade there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where in North Carolina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pleasant Grove, North Carolina. Central North Carolina, but really rural and the kids were quite poor and I liked it, but I still had classroom management problems. I mean, seven year olds, they're no better than that. Different problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have big, big numbers in the class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.22081565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'74, '76. Two years. And I taught second grade there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where in North Carolina?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pleasant Grove, North Carolina. Central North Carolina, but really rural and the kids were quite poor and I liked it, but I still had classroom management problems. I mean, seven year olds, they're no better than that. Different problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have big, big numbers in the class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty six. That was not too bad, but no aides or anything. But it was hard. It was very hard. But it was it was better. It was easy. You know, I knew where the problems were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you maybe had some books."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.0231285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pleasant Grove, North Carolina. Central North Carolina, but really rural and the kids were quite poor and I liked it, but I still had classroom management problems. I mean, seven year olds, they're no better than that. Different problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have big, big numbers in the class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty six. That was not too bad, but no aides or anything. But it was hard. It was very hard. But it was it was better. It was easy. You know, I knew where the problems were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you maybe had some books."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have books. We have books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So and then eventually you must have gone back to school. Eventually, you wound up as a professor at Brandeis."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.9165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a bunch of things and then I went back to get my. I decided I wanted to be a professor. I did a lot of things in the teaching profession and some other things, but I said, I want to be a professor because I was tired of going to parties and somebody meeting somebody and they would say, what do you do? And I would say I'm a second grade teacher and they would turn around and walk away, you know, nothing to say. So I said, this is really interesting stuff, but I want people to recognize me. So I thought college. If I got a Ph.D. or if I taught in college, maybe they'd like it. And then I found out you had to have a PhD to get a good job in college. So I went to Stanford and I got a PhD. And then I got my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In French. And then I came here to Brandeis and taught for 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, I liked it. The first time I remember my first class at Brandeis. I got out of class and I looked and I said, I got through my whole lesson plan. That was the first time in my entire life that I had ever finished what I said I was going to do. Then I went to my office and on the way to my office, I went to the bathroom. And I said I can do this and I can spend as much time here as I want. Nobody's fighting out in the hallway. And then I went to my office and I fixed myself a cup of coffee and I put my feet up and I said, this is humane. I've been looking for it for half a century, but it was like, it was the conditions, and I really appreciated that a lot. So I had the luxury teaching for my last 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. And do you would you have wound up as a professor at Brandeis had you not gone into the Peace Corps? Do you think ultimately it would have come around to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In French. And then I came here to Brandeis and taught for 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "30 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, I liked it. The first time I remember my first class at Brandeis. I got out of class and I looked and I said, I got through my whole lesson plan. That was the first time in my entire life that I had ever finished what I said I was going to do. Then I went to my office and on the way to my office, I went to the bathroom. And I said I can do this and I can spend as much time here as I want. Nobody's fighting out in the hallway. And then I went to my office and I fixed myself a cup of coffee and I put my feet up and I said, this is humane. I've been looking for it for half a century, but it was like, it was the conditions, and I really appreciated that a lot. So I had the luxury teaching for my last 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. And do you would you have wound up as a professor at Brandeis had you not gone into the Peace Corps? Do you think ultimately it would have come around to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. I don't think I would have been a professor. I don't know what I would have done. I mean, I don't know. I really don't know what would have happened, but it was a circuitous route. But I do think that I learned in Peace Corps that I love teaching. That I really loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing. Any other things that you took away from Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 19.65, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I, I liked it. The first time I remember my first class at Brandeis. I got out of class and I looked and I said, I got through my whole lesson plan. That was the first time in my entire life that I had ever finished what I said I was going to do. Then I went to my office and on the way to my office, I went to the bathroom. And I said I can do this and I can spend as much time here as I want. Nobody's fighting out in the hallway. And then I went to my office and I fixed myself a cup of coffee and I put my feet up and I said, this is humane. I've been looking for it for half a century, but it was like, it was the conditions, and I really appreciated that a lot. So I had the luxury teaching for my last 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. And do you would you have wound up as a professor at Brandeis had you not gone into the Peace Corps? Do you think ultimately it would have come around to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. I don't think I would have been a professor. I don't know what I would have done. I mean, I don't know. I really don't know what would have happened, but it was a circuitous route. But I do think that I learned in Peace Corps that I love teaching. That I really loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Amazing. Any other things that you took away from Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, so many. I gained a lot of confidence in myself. A lot of confidence. And it's too much to just to answer a question like that, I can't. I took away so much of what I am from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned something about Senegal. I got the idea that you had gone. You've gone back to Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00023:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's been a great interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I wish you well. And in your remaining years, there's lots more ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I don't know what it is, but I'm sure there is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you, Jane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.74620034058755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The last flight I worked was in the ECLSS systems officer. I did do some work in the SPAN [Spacecraft Analysis Room] on other flights, and then, of course, later on in the Mission Evaluation Room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it working in the SPAN room as compared to the front room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I enjoyed working in the front rooms okay. It was not something that was as much fun, but it was still interesting. I mean, you had to do a different task. I only did that—probably—I don’t know, probably, maybe five or six flights, maybe a few more than that. I guess I was off most of the time working Space Station stuff.\\n\\n The SPAN was basically coordinating activities. It was kind of the interface between the Mission Evaluation Room and the flight control guys, and just a little coordination, particularly with them and sometimes maybe even between disciplines outside the front room.\\n\\n The activity level wasn’t quite as great. I can’t say that. I mean it was enjoyable enough. I still like working—I probably still would like doing it. The front room operation, I always kind of enjoyed that, except Skylab did get a little long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you just looking at the ECLSS systems from the SPAN room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You had, I think, pretty much all the Shuttle systems. There was somebody there for payloads and there were two or three other people, but I think our particular position was the interface for all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any major anomalies during the time that you were in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.94022260065283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I enjoyed working in the front rooms okay. It was not something that was as much fun, but it was still interesting. I mean, you had to do a different task. I only did that—probably—I don’t know, probably, maybe five or six flights, maybe a few more than that. I guess I was off most of the time working Space Station stuff.\\n\\n The SPAN was basically coordinating activities. It was kind of the interface between the Mission Evaluation Room and the flight control guys, and just a little coordination, particularly with them and sometimes maybe even between disciplines outside the front room.\\n\\n The activity level wasn’t quite as great. I can’t say that. I mean it was enjoyable enough. I still like working—I probably still would like doing it. The front room operation, I always kind of enjoyed that, except Skylab did get a little long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you just looking at the ECLSS systems from the SPAN room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You had, I think, pretty much all the Shuttle systems. There was somebody there for payloads and there were two or three other people, but I think our particular position was the interface for all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any major anomalies during the time that you were in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honestly, I don’t have a very good recollection of that particular time. I can’t even tell you for sure what flights I worked back there. I didn’t make a record of them, but it was somewhere like I think after nine, but well before the Challenger accident. I’m sorry, I do not remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know STS-9, one of the APUs caught fire actually during reentry and landing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.37802511183648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. You had, I think, pretty much all the Shuttle systems. There was somebody there for payloads and there were two or three other people, but I think our particular position was the interface for all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any major anomalies during the time that you were in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honestly, I don’t have a very good recollection of that particular time. I can’t even tell you for sure what flights I worked back there. I didn’t make a record of them, but it was somewhere like I think after nine, but well before the Challenger accident. I’m sorry, I do not remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know STS-9, one of the APUs caught fire actually during reentry and landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if that was something that you had come across."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.0866945687072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honestly, I don’t have a very good recollection of that particular time. I can’t even tell you for sure what flights I worked back there. I didn’t make a record of them, but it was somewhere like I think after nine, but well before the Challenger accident. I’m sorry, I do not remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know STS-9, one of the APUs caught fire actually during reentry and landing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if that was something that you had come across."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember that now, or at least if I thought about it, I might, but it’s not something that sticks in my mind. I don’t know whether I worked that mission or not. I’d have to go back and look at my calendar and see just exactly when all this broke, but I don’t specifically remember that. When did STS-9 fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was September of 1983 or right around that point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.09632729856355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t know if that was something that you had come across."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember that now, or at least if I thought about it, I might, but it’s not something that sticks in my mind. I don’t know whether I worked that mission or not. I’d have to go back and look at my calendar and see just exactly when all this broke, but I don’t specifically remember that. When did STS-9 fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was September of 1983 or right around that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably would have been about the time I moved off somewhere else. I might have been in the SPAN room. I just don’t really recollect that. I’m sorry, but I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. Why did you move into Space Station activities when you had been working in this area for so long?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.44036366507061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t remember that now, or at least if I thought about it, I might, but it’s not something that sticks in my mind. I don’t know whether I worked that mission or not. I’d have to go back and look at my calendar and see just exactly when all this broke, but I don’t specifically remember that. When did STS-9 fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was September of 1983 or right around that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably would have been about the time I moved off somewhere else. I might have been in the SPAN room. I just don’t really recollect that. I’m sorry, but I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. Why did you move into Space Station activities when you had been working in this area for so long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you elaborate on who asked you and maybe why, and then what was going on at that time that you were becoming involved with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.155959627856234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably would have been about the time I moved off somewhere else. I might have been in the SPAN room. I just don’t really recollect that. I’m sorry, but I don’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. Why did you move into Space Station activities when you had been working in this area for so long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you elaborate on who asked you and maybe why, and then what was going on at that time that you were becoming involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I say I was asked to; I was directed to more than anything else. I couldn’t even really begin to say what was led to that. The activity was a new activity going on, and so I did it because basically I was not given a choice about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what the timeframe was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 36.83995514206248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was asked to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you elaborate on who asked you and maybe why, and then what was going on at that time that you were becoming involved with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, I say I was asked to; I was directed to more than anything else. I couldn’t even really begin to say what was led to that. The activity was a new activity going on, and so I did it because basically I was not given a choice about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what the timeframe was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in ’83. I don’t remember—it seemed like it was in early ’83 because I think it was in springtime, spring or early summer, that’s my recollection of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of status was there on Space Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.59035115966288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Marshall?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, the MOD operates the Space Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess in terms of considering operational constraints in designing the system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would not criticize on how they did it. In my familiarity with the Space Station, there are a lot of snags in it. But, on the other hand, you start building stuff and then they change the ground rules a few times, and you can’t necessarily go back and redo the stuff you’ve already built. Sometimes you encounter where you have to make do with stuff that might not be absolutely optimum for the new condition. I don’t have any specific instances. I’m just saying that sometimes that does happen. I think that they cut out a lot of testing because of budget considerations—not Marshall—but just the agency.\\n\\n We’ve encountered some problems, I think on the Space Station, that we might have found out on the ground instead of up there if we’d done a little more testing. But that’s just simply a matter of, you do what you can do. It has no bearing on who did it. I don’t even see in operating a Space Station, during Skylab there was quite a bit of conflict. Maybe not just conflict, but issues between Marshall and mission operations. I think it’s a difference in cultures, but I don’t even see that that much now. It seems like it’s going relatively smooth, given the circumstances.\\n\\n Skylab, we had a bunch of problems the first Skylab mission, and then it leveled out. It got kind of dull after that, and I think Station’s kind of doing the same, it seems like. Of course, it may be early to say it’s leveling, but we’ve certainly have had a few problems up front, at least in our world, the ECLSS world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they still have some building to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 33.731620246451136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Of course, I guess in our particular world, a lot of the building is going to use a lot of the same equipment, like the Japanese modules or something get up there. I think the original question was, operation-wise, I don’t know how I’d speak for the operation guys. Our particular end of it seems to be working. It works—I wouldn’t call it smooth, but it’s smoother than it started out and I think it gets better as time goes on and it probably will always could stand some improvement. But I think we’re doing reasonably well, and we’re interfacing with Marshall reasonably well, or the Boeing people in Huntsville, primarily who did this stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did your job change when you went to work under Chuck Lewis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what you had been doing on Space Station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s kind of a continuation of the same thing. It’s just a different office. I mean, it was different from the skunk works, but basically, as far as the MOD part of the thing goes, it was basically more of the same. As things moved on, as you got closer to having something more finite to deal with, and I’m not saying—leave off the term physical, because it was a while yet to get anything physical—but you had something a little more specific you were dealing with, a little better defined. You had specific things you could address, but basically it was kind of a continuation of that, but a little better defined. And we did have some budget to go work specific issues, and we worked those issues. The issues weren’t as specific, they were more general and perhaps a little vaguer earlier. I guess that’s the biggest change. It wasn’t a radical change at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what some of the specific budget issues that you were having to work through were at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 44.40530196585968, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they probably do have fewer flight controllers. Well, I don’t know whether they do or not now. When I was there, we had an EECOM and we had a thermal guy and a life support guy and a mechanisms guy. I think that was it. And now, they have an EECOM and a thermal guy, and they may at times combine those two functions, at least under the crew sleep period or something like that. But life support and a thermal guy. Now they have a—I don’t remember what they call him, but a mechanism guy, and he probably has a guy in the back room, so it probably has increased a little bit for that function.\\n\\n I don’t think it ever happened, all right, at least not to any large degree, but that was desired. It was anticipated that they might do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there any significant changes in the job you were performing until you retired from NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean during that Space Station time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there really wasn’t. No, there really wasn’t. There was a brief change there, but that was after I notified them I wanted to retire, and I think Chuck Lewis told them he wanted to retire, and they kind of dissolved his office and we got scattered, but that was only like a couple of months. I don’t think my retirement had anything to do with it. It was probably Chuck Lewis’ announcement that had something to do with it, dissolving the office, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact, if any, did the Challenger accident have on the activities of the Space Station office?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.005891073177416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean during that Space Station time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there really wasn’t. No, there really wasn’t. There was a brief change there, but that was after I notified them I wanted to retire, and I think Chuck Lewis told them he wanted to retire, and they kind of dissolved his office and we got scattered, but that was only like a couple of months. I don’t think my retirement had anything to do with it. It was probably Chuck Lewis’ announcement that had something to do with it, dissolving the office, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What impact, if any, did the Challenger accident have on the activities of the Space Station office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know that there was any major impact other than we were all shocked with the tragedy. I guess something like that doesn’t happen. I stopped whatever I was doing that morning to watch the launch, and I guess most people do that. It’s kind of a significant event and everybody now holds their breath for two minutes after liftoff, if it last that long. Then they can relax and feel like they’ve got a good chance for another year on the job at least, or a while longer on the job. I think everybody realizes that we can’t do that very often and continue to do this space program.\\n\\n I don’t know that the activity made any significant directional changes. In fact, I don’t recollect any specific activity on Station that was majorly affected. Now, it may have been in other areas. I’m sure that was a significant event that it affects all your thinking. But I don’t think there was any programmatic change or anything like that that I noticed. At least, if there were, I don’t recollect them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you did decide to leave, what was your motivation then and did you have plans for after you were retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00151:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. I know what that job is out there. And I don’t mean to say that I’m the only guy who knows that. Certainly not that. Or even that I have the answers to all of it, but at least I kind of understand the relationship and I kind of know where they’re coming from. And so therefore I can appreciate your position. I’ve done a number of years’ work in the MER, so I can kind of appreciate our position. There’s use for both of them. You just kind of got to come to a relationship.\\n\\n We have had some difficulties in the Station world because of that. We had difficulties with Marshall, same way. They did not form the MER function per se, but the support function, but it’s sort of equivalent to MER. Basically you make an accommodation there. I mean, you’ve got to do that or else. And their flight director forces them to make an accommodation. In some cases, it’s fairly cooperative and with some individuals it’s just begrudging, but it sort of works now. And we don’t have any open fights now. I think we usually try to work out our stuff before we ever get to a formal process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, I think those cover all the questions that I had for you this afternoon but I did want to see if Sandra had developed any."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other comments you’d like to make or areas you’d like to address before we wrap it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know of any. I probably don’t think so. I can’t think of anything right now. If anything else, I’d probably ramble worse than I’ve already rambled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, no, actually I don’t think you’ve rambled too much at all. I think you’ve answered all my questions very well this afternoon and last time, too. I’d like to thank you for spending the time with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00746:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.33, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Always. I always did. In NASA, managers are just looking for who's willing to step up and lead and get things done. I've really not felt like there's been any holdback at all. Maybe it's just my personality. I’m never going to back off of an opportunity. If somebody thinks I can do something, I'm going to step up and try to do it. I haven't seen that. Of course, this organization for a long time was mostly men. If you look at my direct reports right now, they're almost all women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's a change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a big change. In fact, we just did a Standing Review Board that the Shuttle Program is undergoing, and I wanted my org [organization] chart with pictures on it. How many Division Chiefs do I have? I think I have seven or eight, and four of them are women. So 50% or more. I just know there was a lot of female faces on that org chart. I thought, “No, it's not just because I'm a female that I hired a bunch of women,” they were the best for the job. So I think it's just changing. I think KSC in general—even the payload organization I was in—there was a lot of up and coming females as I was growing up, about in my age category, that now are up there. You're seeing more at the top than you did when I first got here. There was very few. There was one, I think there was one female direct line to the Center Director. We've never had a Center Director female here at KSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yet. We have a deputy now, though. This is the first time we've had a deputy female."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like there's a hardest lesson or the best lesson that you've learned through your experiences, something that you try not to forget on a daily basis or a routine basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 120.01226535887982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have to tell you, I don’t remember. I’m sure we were, but I can’t remember specifically. That newsroom was always busy. Phones were ringing all the time, and typewriters were going. You ate at your desk, and the only time you left your desk was when you went to the copy machine or you went to the ladies’ room. But it was amazing. It was an amazing place to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Living in history as it’s being made."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I mean, it really was, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I was useless when I came home. I was always exhausted, because then I started getting into jobs where I was working for the senior-level people, and they weren’t eight to four-thirty jobs. You stayed as long as your boss needed you, and I worked a lot of overtime during those years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, in 1972 you moved out of the Public Affairs Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went from the frying pan into the fire."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your option? That was a move you wanted to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.1230651278246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were technology changes, as well, that were coupled with that, so it was major. It was significant. It really was. It damn near killed me. [Laughs] It really did, because I was getting just old enough that I was beginning to not be able to work at that pace. It was hard. That was really, really, really hard. So that was one of the big things that happened under Mr. Goldin’s watch that impacted me personally.\\n\\n Then just the steady stream of training new staff. Every time I turned around we were changing staff, from senior level to worker bees. I mean, we couldn’t even keep a receptionist. We had such a turnover in that period that Mr. Goldin was the Administrator, it was amazing. I think when Mr. O’Keefe became Administrator, I think there were like two or three of us left in the office that had been there the whole time of Mr. Goldin, maybe two—and I’m one of them—that had been there the whole time Mr. Goldin was—he was the Administrator for a long time. That, in and of itself, is unprecedented. I mean, people don’t stay in jobs that long, as a rule. They move around. I know I’m a bit of an oddball."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in his [Goldin] background and that kind of position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and in that kind of a position. Very unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that, when we were doing some research, that seemed to be a little bit unique during that time period was the demonstrations or protests, and some things that may have resulted from the proposed Cassini launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, not that much. You know, I’m going to tell you exactly what resulted from that. He said, “We’re locking the doors.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was the doors to your suite?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.24785014202733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and in that kind of a position. Very unusual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the things that, when we were doing some research, that seemed to be a little bit unique during that time period was the demonstrations or protests, and some things that may have resulted from the proposed Cassini launch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, not that much. You know, I’m going to tell you exactly what resulted from that. He said, “We’re locking the doors.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was the doors to your suite?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You couldn’t get in without a badge that was programmed to open the doors. That was a logistics nightmare for people like me and other members of the staff, who had to make sure that there was always somebody there to let people in. I was forever working with Security to give people badge access, because if you programmed the badges, when we moved into that building, everything is run off a mainframe computer, and the computer controls the alarm system, which opens and closes all the doors, and the emergency egress system; the whole fire alarm, the door alarms, and that kind of stuff.\\n\\n So after that protest he said, “We’re locking the doors.” Well, simple thing for the Administrator to say. A lot of work for people down in the trenches. The trickle-down effect was a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And woe the day his badge didn’t let him in, huh? [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.81046721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only other thing that I think we didn’t cover, that I don’t know whether you want to go back to or not, is the women’s role in the workplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Is that something you’d like to share, or that’s something you’ve watched change over the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’ve certainly watched it change, and I think it’s still changing. We have, for the first time in NASA’s almost fifty-year history, a female Deputy Administrator [Shana Dale]. I don’t know her real well. She’s only been there a couple of months. I think that she’s a definite indication that women have not really broken through what they call the “glass ceiling” yet, because people treat her differently because she’s a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give me a couple of examples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they’re more guarded as to what they say. Now, I don’t know, because I haven’t sat in any of the meetings that she’s chaired. I don’t know what the reaction is to her. I’m just talking about the day-to-day—she’s exhibited a couple of idiosyncrasies, personal idiosyncrasies, that have drawn a great deal of conversation among the working troops. Those idiosyncrasies are no different from some of her male counterparts, okay? But because, I think, they’re coming from her, I think they’re more subject to scrutiny. I’m not talking in circles; I just don’t want to get into the nitty-gritty of the details. It’s no different than some of the men that have sat where she’s sat have done, but it seems to be drawing a lot more conversation from the workforce, and I think that’s because she’s a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel that a woman’s role is perceived at Headquarters? You’ve watched over this last forty years. As you mentioned, you came in as a secretary. Was it a while before you saw women being promoted into manager and—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 18.6782969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I’ve certainly watched it change, and I think it’s still changing. We have, for the first time in NASA’s almost fifty-year history, a female Deputy Administrator [Shana Dale]. I don’t know her real well. She’s only been there a couple of months. I think that she’s a definite indication that women have not really broken through what they call the “glass ceiling” yet, because people treat her differently because she’s a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give me a couple of examples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think they’re more guarded as to what they say. Now, I don’t know, because I haven’t sat in any of the meetings that she’s chaired. I don’t know what the reaction is to her. I’m just talking about the day-to-day—she’s exhibited a couple of idiosyncrasies, personal idiosyncrasies, that have drawn a great deal of conversation among the working troops. Those idiosyncrasies are no different from some of her male counterparts, okay? But because, I think, they’re coming from her, I think they’re more subject to scrutiny. I’m not talking in circles; I just don’t want to get into the nitty-gritty of the details. It’s no different than some of the men that have sat where she’s sat have done, but it seems to be drawing a lot more conversation from the workforce, and I think that’s because she’s a woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you feel that a woman’s role is perceived at Headquarters? You’ve watched over this last forty years. As you mentioned, you came in as a secretary. Was it a while before you saw women being promoted into manager and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. When I worked in Legislative Affairs in the seventies, one of the Deputies was—and I worked for her—was a female. NASA, I think, has always been very on the cutting edge as far as offering opportunities, management opportunities, to women."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on the Federal Women’s Program Committee. Was that part of anything that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they listen to her. So, to me, that’s an indication that there are a lot of women that have been given a lot of good opportunities at NASA. Some haven’t done well, but I think, there again, that’s a personality thing. If it’s a bad match with your manager in any job, it doesn’t matter whether you’re wearing a skirt or—you know. I never felt that being a woman held me back. But there, again, I didn’t aspire to lofty heights. I was happy doing what I was doing. Maybe I didn’t represent any threat to anybody, and other women have, and that’s why they’ve been stunted. I don’t know. You know, if you’re a threat, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a man or a woman, you’re a threat. That comes into play in people’s jockeying for positions or power. There’s no getting around that. It does. I know a lot of really smart women, and I have as much respect for them as I do the smart men I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I really appreciate all the words of experience and information that you’ve given us today and all the insight that only you can have after forty-three years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t know if I’ve told you anything you didn’t already know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots and lots and lots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope it’s of some value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is of value, and your service, especially, so thanks again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t know if I’ve told you anything you didn’t already know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lots and lots and lots."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope it’s of some value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is of value, and your service, especially, so thanks again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. I feel very special in being given the opportunity to participate in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can truly say you’re one of a kind, so we’re really glad that you were able to sit down and talk."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope it’s of some value."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is of value, and your service, especially, so thanks again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. I feel very special in being given the opportunity to participate in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can truly say you’re one of a kind, so we’re really glad that you were able to sit down and talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s what I’m saying. I mean, I didn’t know anything about it until Courtney said something to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll have to tell him thank you, so we got some good stuff from you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. I feel very special in being given the opportunity to participate in this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can truly say you’re one of a kind, so we’re really glad that you were able to sit down and talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s what I’m saying. I mean, I didn’t know anything about it until Courtney said something to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll have to tell him thank you, so we got some good stuff from you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he called me the other day, and he wanted to be sure that he hadn’t lost touch with me, because he hadn’t heard from me. I said, “You haven’t lost touch with me. I’ve got your e-mail. I just haven’t have time,” I said, “and I’m busy getting ready for this oral history thing that you got me into, Courtney.”\\n\\n He said, “Oh, that’s great. That’s fabulous.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’ll have to tell him thank you, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00869:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s what I’m saying. I mean, I didn’t know anything about it until Courtney said something to me about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ll have to tell him thank you, so we got some good stuff from you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he called me the other day, and he wanted to be sure that he hadn’t lost touch with me, because he hadn’t heard from me. I said, “You haven’t lost touch with me. I’ve got your e-mail. I just haven’t have time,” I said, “and I’m busy getting ready for this oral history thing that you got me into, Courtney.”\\n\\n He said, “Oh, that’s great. That’s fabulous.” [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’ll have to tell him thank you, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He and Scott Pace both said something to me about it, and then I found out in talking to Joe Allen that he had also—I knew the program was out there, but I just, again, had never had the luxury of time to get on the website and see what was on there and who had participated in it. Of course, now that I understand it, I’m going to be out there selling it.\\n\\n But I’m going to have to find you a financial backer, I guess. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we hope not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.512445059540902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not as barren?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not as barren as one would have believed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. It wasn't. We had a group of people outside of NASA who felt we should fly those animals, so we set up a program to do that. We had a whole lot of things that we were measuring on those chimps. We didn't learn an awful lot from flying those animals. I mean, we really did it to satisfy people not in the agency."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it help you perfect any of the systems?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. I think that the couch was almost like a substitute for a space suit. I think that we flew two chimps—we didn't learn a lot from them. In fact, we shocked the one for the whole time he was up there, and he was so mad when they opened that hatch, that he really started biting people.\\n\\n But as a result of flying those, there was a national—there was a committee from the—I even forget now where they're from. Anyhow, they had insisted that we fly these chimps. They came in and we went through all the data, and they backed off and that was the end of it. Those trailers, I guess, are over at [George C.] Marshall [Space Flight Center] now. I don't know how Marshall ended up with all of our trailers, but they did.\\n\\n I don't know what else I could tell you about the animal program. I think we learned some things, but I really think that the real things we learned medically were with the astronauts themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of things did you learn?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.9722849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The suit contractor was B. F. Goodrich, and they were in Akron, Ohio. I'd gotten to know then when I was working for the Bureau of Aeronautics. They were a very, very, very good company to work with. We really had the Navy buy those suits. We gave them $5,000 a suit, which was like nothing. I don't know what the hell we pay for a suit now, but it's a lot more than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have to make a lot of modifications to the suits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The thing about the Navy suit, it was basically open from the helmet all the way through. So if you had the inlet side was down here, and there was a distribution system that sent all the gas around over all the body, and it came back up, and the helmet had an outlet. So you circulated the gas over the body, brought it back up for him to breathe, and took it back down into the environmental control system where there was a lithium hydroxide bed that scrubbed the CO2 out, and there was a heat exchanger which cooled it. As I recall, we also had some charcoal to take any odors out that were in it. So it was a relatively simple operation.\\n\\n The suit itself was the latest suit that the Navy had built and was used in a lot of their fighter planes. It was one of the better suits that was built at the time. Funny thing is, it's the only B.F. Goodrich suit we flew was the one at Mercury. When we got to Gemini, we picked the Dave Clark suit. They had made some changes that they should have made if they wanted to fly in Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the Navy suit was adequate throughout Mercury?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew there were some temperature problems astronauts had on some of the flights."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.524761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The thing about the Navy suit, it was basically open from the helmet all the way through. So if you had the inlet side was down here, and there was a distribution system that sent all the gas around over all the body, and it came back up, and the helmet had an outlet. So you circulated the gas over the body, brought it back up for him to breathe, and took it back down into the environmental control system where there was a lithium hydroxide bed that scrubbed the CO2 out, and there was a heat exchanger which cooled it. As I recall, we also had some charcoal to take any odors out that were in it. So it was a relatively simple operation.\\n\\n The suit itself was the latest suit that the Navy had built and was used in a lot of their fighter planes. It was one of the better suits that was built at the time. Funny thing is, it's the only B.F. Goodrich suit we flew was the one at Mercury. When we got to Gemini, we picked the Dave Clark suit. They had made some changes that they should have made if they wanted to fly in Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the Navy suit was adequate throughout Mercury?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew there were some temperature problems astronauts had on some of the flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so much the suit was the problem, though. It might have been. That's been a long time ago. I'd have to go back and look in the book, but I don't think we had a problem with the suit. I think we had more problems with the environmental control system, the way it was cooling, and whatever. But I don't recall any of the astronauts in flight are having a problem with that suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some other contractors? Do you work with McDonnell?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.80529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I knew there were some temperature problems astronauts had on some of the flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so much the suit was the problem, though. It might have been. That's been a long time ago. I'd have to go back and look in the book, but I don't think we had a problem with the suit. I think we had more problems with the environmental control system, the way it was cooling, and whatever. But I don't recall any of the astronauts in flight are having a problem with that suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some other contractors? Do you work with McDonnell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "McDonnell-Douglas? I worked with them with I was with the Navy, Bureau of Aeronautics. They were a good company. They didn't always like to take direction, but I had no problem with them. I think John [F.] Yardley was the guy in charge of the thing out there. He was a good guy. He later came to NASA, but he was a very smart guy—smart, very smart. I had no problem at all with McDonnell Douglas. If something was wrong, you'd talk to them about it, they would correct it if they thought it was wrong. If they didn't think it was wrong, we'd debate it. But I had no problem with them.\\n\\n Let's see. Did they build the Mercury spacecraft? I guess they did. They had a contract with Air Research, who I'd worked with when I was with the Navy. They did a good job on the environmental control system—really did an outstanding job. In fact, most of the people who worked on things like the environmental control system, or the seats, they were all good, solid people, and they were all dedicated to getting the first man in space, even if the Russians had beat us at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when you were talking about the animal flights, that there were outside groups that basically forced you to institute that program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.2281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so much the suit was the problem, though. It might have been. That's been a long time ago. I'd have to go back and look in the book, but I don't think we had a problem with the suit. I think we had more problems with the environmental control system, the way it was cooling, and whatever. But I don't recall any of the astronauts in flight are having a problem with that suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some other contractors? Do you work with McDonnell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "McDonnell-Douglas? I worked with them with I was with the Navy, Bureau of Aeronautics. They were a good company. They didn't always like to take direction, but I had no problem with them. I think John [F.] Yardley was the guy in charge of the thing out there. He was a good guy. He later came to NASA, but he was a very smart guy—smart, very smart. I had no problem at all with McDonnell Douglas. If something was wrong, you'd talk to them about it, they would correct it if they thought it was wrong. If they didn't think it was wrong, we'd debate it. But I had no problem with them.\\n\\n Let's see. Did they build the Mercury spacecraft? I guess they did. They had a contract with Air Research, who I'd worked with when I was with the Navy. They did a good job on the environmental control system—really did an outstanding job. In fact, most of the people who worked on things like the environmental control system, or the seats, they were all good, solid people, and they were all dedicated to getting the first man in space, even if the Russians had beat us at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned earlier when you were talking about the animal flights, that there were outside groups that basically forced you to institute that program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other outside groups that put pressure on your or your division to do anything in particular?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00315:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.01, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any other outside groups that put pressure on your or your division to do anything in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they didn't so much put pressure on my division as they did on the Space Task Group. I was the deputy chief of the division, and so we had to bear the brunt of their insistence that we do things, which was all right, because we did what they wanted, and I think we were successful. I can't think of any reason why, after we flew both of those animals, they had no problems with us flying the men. There were some people on that committee that were pretty strong about things that shouldn't have been. But after we demonstrated what we did with the chimps, they never bothered us anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any special memories you have of the Mercury Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Special memories. Well, I have to think about that. I guess Al Shepard's first flight was kind of a special memory for me. Gus Grissom's flight afterwards was kind of anticlimactic. I think John Glenn's mission was very memorable to me. So I don't know. It's a funny thing. You work on a program like that, and each flight has got something special about it. John Glenn is a great American, in my opinion. I've known him a long time, not that we're real close, we're not. He's getting ready to fly again. I guess of all the guys who flew in Mercury, Al Shepard and John Glenn are probably the people I think were the best. Schirra to some extent, but once Wally got in flight, Wally was in control, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work closely with any of the astronauts on the seat or the environmental control system?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.133656778486316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You guys must be getting tired of seeing me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, absolutely not. We always look forward to people coming in.\\n\\n Let’s begin by talking about your Shuttle-Mir mission. How did this mission differ from your other Shuttle missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most significant things were, number one, I was going somewhere other than just around the Earth. I was actually going to go visit some other spacecraft. I was going to go visit people that were living in space, and it was my first opportunity to have a direct working relationship with the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went up there, did you actually learn Russian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to teach me some Russian. It was pretty futile, because I’m not good at languages at all. Plus, we got assigned late enough that we really didn’t have that much free time to really concentrate on the language. If we’d had another six months maybe we could have front-loaded the language training and got somewhere with it. But, fortunately, it wasn’t that necessary. We had a couple guys on the crew that were halfway reasonable with language, so that helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys have any challenges on board this mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.37072975387368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The most significant things were, number one, I was going somewhere other than just around the Earth. I was actually going to go visit some other spacecraft. I was going to go visit people that were living in space, and it was my first opportunity to have a direct working relationship with the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went up there, did you actually learn Russian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to teach me some Russian. It was pretty futile, because I’m not good at languages at all. Plus, we got assigned late enough that we really didn’t have that much free time to really concentrate on the language. If we’d had another six months maybe we could have front-loaded the language training and got somewhere with it. But, fortunately, it wasn’t that necessary. We had a couple guys on the crew that were halfway reasonable with language, so that helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys have any challenges on board this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean during the mission itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mission itself or during training."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.85636639319298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tried to teach me some Russian. It was pretty futile, because I’m not good at languages at all. Plus, we got assigned late enough that we really didn’t have that much free time to really concentrate on the language. If we’d had another six months maybe we could have front-loaded the language training and got somewhere with it. But, fortunately, it wasn’t that necessary. We had a couple guys on the crew that were halfway reasonable with language, so that helped out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you guys have any challenges on board this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean during the mission itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mission itself or during training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think, as I remember it, everything went pretty much as planned. Probably the biggest challenges were just learning how to relate to the Russians and to work with them, and trying to get enough engineering information that would allow us to understand the systems and the performance parameters of the docking module, which we carried into space and mounted to the International Space Station. I think those were probably the most interesting aspects from doing something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you main goals during this mission, or your assignments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.72929599243664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean during the mission itself?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the mission itself or during training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think, as I remember it, everything went pretty much as planned. Probably the biggest challenges were just learning how to relate to the Russians and to work with them, and trying to get enough engineering information that would allow us to understand the systems and the performance parameters of the docking module, which we carried into space and mounted to the International Space Station. I think those were probably the most interesting aspects from doing something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you main goals during this mission, or your assignments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I flew as Mission Specialist number two, the flight engineer for the crew, and I also had pretty much overall responsibilities for the docking module, to understand its systems and to be ready to operate systems or react to things that didn’t work quite right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed that there wasn’t an EVA [Extravehicular Activity] on this flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.81032888048515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think, as I remember it, everything went pretty much as planned. Probably the biggest challenges were just learning how to relate to the Russians and to work with them, and trying to get enough engineering information that would allow us to understand the systems and the performance parameters of the docking module, which we carried into space and mounted to the International Space Station. I think those were probably the most interesting aspects from doing something different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you main goals during this mission, or your assignments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I flew as Mission Specialist number two, the flight engineer for the crew, and I also had pretty much overall responsibilities for the docking module, to understand its systems and to be ready to operate systems or react to things that didn’t work quite right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed that there wasn’t an EVA [Extravehicular Activity] on this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. [Laughs] That would have been pretty neat to go outside on the Russian Mir station and have a chance to see their hardware up close and personal, especially since it had been in space for quite a long period of time at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission there was actually government furlough. How did that affect your mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 44.23369875609461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I flew as Mission Specialist number two, the flight engineer for the crew, and I also had pretty much overall responsibilities for the docking module, to understand its systems and to be ready to operate systems or react to things that didn’t work quite right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you disappointed that there wasn’t an EVA [Extravehicular Activity] on this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. [Laughs] That would have been pretty neat to go outside on the Russian Mir station and have a chance to see their hardware up close and personal, especially since it had been in space for quite a long period of time at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission there was actually government furlough. How did that affect your mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it didn’t. The people in the Mission Control Center continued to work. It was maybe a little bit quieter because we didn’t have all the other hoopla going on in the background, but from our perspective, it was pretty much transparent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have read, though, that there was an unofficial web page for this flight. Do you remember that? It was called the “Utterly Unofficial STS-74 Mission Guide Website.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 48.03744306232735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. [Laughs] That would have been pretty neat to go outside on the Russian Mir station and have a chance to see their hardware up close and personal, especially since it had been in space for quite a long period of time at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission there was actually government furlough. How did that affect your mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it didn’t. The people in the Mission Control Center continued to work. It was maybe a little bit quieter because we didn’t have all the other hoopla going on in the background, but from our perspective, it was pretty much transparent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have read, though, that there was an unofficial web page for this flight. Do you remember that? It was called the “Utterly Unofficial STS-74 Mission Guide Website.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that, quite frankly. It probably was a Bill [William S.] McArthur thing, but I’m not sure. [Laughs] I honestly don’t remember that. That’s a good one. I’ll have to go back and see if I can dig out any information on that one. Obviously, we were pretty intense in our training; getting ready to go fly, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission you received a number of phone calls from various people, like the United Nations Secretary General, the Russian Prime Minister. Do you remember any of these phone calls and conversations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 51.152714513697056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it didn’t. The people in the Mission Control Center continued to work. It was maybe a little bit quieter because we didn’t have all the other hoopla going on in the background, but from our perspective, it was pretty much transparent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have read, though, that there was an unofficial web page for this flight. Do you remember that? It was called the “Utterly Unofficial STS-74 Mission Guide Website.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that, quite frankly. It probably was a Bill [William S.] McArthur thing, but I’m not sure. [Laughs] I honestly don’t remember that. That’s a good one. I’ll have to go back and see if I can dig out any information on that one. Obviously, we were pretty intense in our training; getting ready to go fly, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission you received a number of phone calls from various people, like the United Nations Secretary General, the Russian Prime Minister. Do you remember any of these phone calls and conversations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember them. I don’t remember much of the detail about it, but I thought it was pretty neat to have that level of importance placed on the mission and what we were doing up there. We did fly a copy of the United Nations treaty, which basically calls all signees, all countries who signed the treaty, to treat any unexpected guests from on high that drop into the country to help with the rescue and good treatment of them. Then after the mission, we took that back to the United Nations and presented it back to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that trip to New York?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 52.39190501521895, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember that, quite frankly. It probably was a Bill [William S.] McArthur thing, but I’m not sure. [Laughs] I honestly don’t remember that. That’s a good one. I’ll have to go back and see if I can dig out any information on that one. Obviously, we were pretty intense in our training; getting ready to go fly, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this mission you received a number of phone calls from various people, like the United Nations Secretary General, the Russian Prime Minister. Do you remember any of these phone calls and conversations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember them. I don’t remember much of the detail about it, but I thought it was pretty neat to have that level of importance placed on the mission and what we were doing up there. We did fly a copy of the United Nations treaty, which basically calls all signees, all countries who signed the treaty, to treat any unexpected guests from on high that drop into the country to help with the rescue and good treatment of them. Then after the mission, we took that back to the United Nations and presented it back to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that trip to New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a lot of fun. That was one of the few times I’ve actually ever spent much time in Manhattan, [New York], and we got to go with the Russians, and we spent most of the day in the United Nations and made some presentations and got a chance to visit with many of the diplomats. It was a very unique experience for us.\\n\\n We also got a chance to do a bit of touring around New York City, [New York]. I’ll never forget one of the places we did go was to the World Trade Center towers. My only time there. We did go all the way up to the observation deck and look out. So, not too many years later, it was quite a mental feeling to realize what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that must have been. What are your other memories about this mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 55.991005572465504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember them. I don’t remember much of the detail about it, but I thought it was pretty neat to have that level of importance placed on the mission and what we were doing up there. We did fly a copy of the United Nations treaty, which basically calls all signees, all countries who signed the treaty, to treat any unexpected guests from on high that drop into the country to help with the rescue and good treatment of them. Then after the mission, we took that back to the United Nations and presented it back to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that trip to New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a lot of fun. That was one of the few times I’ve actually ever spent much time in Manhattan, [New York], and we got to go with the Russians, and we spent most of the day in the United Nations and made some presentations and got a chance to visit with many of the diplomats. It was a very unique experience for us.\\n\\n We also got a chance to do a bit of touring around New York City, [New York]. I’ll never forget one of the places we did go was to the World Trade Center towers. My only time there. We did go all the way up to the observation deck and look out. So, not too many years later, it was quite a mental feeling to realize what was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that must have been. What are your other memories about this mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember going to Russia I think at least three times for training sessions on the hardware and inspection of the hardware. I can remember at least one of the times we went when it was really cold. I think it was this trip that we were—no, it was a different trip, an earlier trip to Russia. I was recalling a time when we were at Star City, [Russia], and we were at a big statue outside of one of the facilities and it was real icy, and I slipped and fell and everybody else thought that that was pretty funny. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like training in Russia? How was it different from training at JSC?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 46.34357262574124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In part it was. In part it was. The MMU had two hand controllers, one for translations, one for rotations. The SAFER’s got one hand controller and a switch to change between rotation and translation. It has a little stabilizing gyro on it so that you can stop your attitude excursions, a tumble, if you will. And it does have one-pound thrusters that allow you to push yourself back toward the Station."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On this flight there were also two satellites that were launched. What role did you play in that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a photographer on both of those satellites that were launched. I think Rick [Frederick W.] Sturckow launched both the satellites, if I remember correctly. One of them was for the Air Force. It was a technology demonstration satellite that had several different pretty unique experiments in it. I don’t remember a whole lot of the details now. The other one was for the country of Argentina, and it was, again, some technologies that they were trying to develop a stronger in-country space capability. I remember one of them was designed to track whales, I think, and I forget what the others were for, but there were about three or four experiments they had in those also. Both of the satellites stayed in orbit for a period of, I think, about six months or so after we released them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any interesting anecdotes or stories from that mission that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now you’re putting me on the spot. I should have done my homework on this a little more. No. What do you have in mind?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t have anything. Surprisingly, your later missions there’s not as much detail as there are on the earlier missions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 62.38458335575748, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a concern in the Astronaut Office that as long lived as when John Young got his sixth flight, that probably nobody would ever be able to go beyond six. You said that I surpassed John Young. I will never surpass John Young no matter what I do in my life. John is my hero, and he has done so many incredible things for this country with our program, that I don’t think anybody could ever surpass what he’s done.\\n\\n Susy Young will tell you that John also has seven launches, one of them just happens to be from the surface of the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s one way of looking at it, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would trade several of mine for one of those. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stick around long enough, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s probably not in the cards, but we’ll see.\\n\\n It certainly was an honor and I still consider it a good start. I would like to do eight, nine, ten, whatever. I just see it as being a fact that I’ve been willing to stick around and work hard and continue to be excited about what I’m doing, and I think Franklin [R.] Chang[-Diaz] would tell you the same thing, when you talk to him, that we love what we do and we feel very excited about the opportunities we’ve had.\\n\\n The fact that we’re the first two to ever fly seven times is neat, but I hope it doesn’t last very long, because if it lasts long, that means that we aren’t progressing the way that we want to progress. So I think my record for the number of U.S. spacewalks and time outside I hope get eclipsed very soon, and I hope that somebody goes well beyond my record of seven flights. I mean, it’s nice personal things to have, but for the country and for mankind, if they aren’t wiped out and exceeded, then we’re not doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did the media think? Did the media cover this at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 73.89816088364195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was really a good crew. We had a lot of fun together. The people that had flown in space before, Mike [Michael J.] Bloomfield, Ellen Ochoa, and Steve [Steven L.] Smith, were all exceptionally talented folks. They knew their business inside out and did a great job at it. We had three rookies, Steve [Steven N.] Frick, the pilot, Lee [M. E.] Morin, and Rex [J.] Walheim, who are spacewalking buddies with Steve Smith and myself, and, again, they just added a lot to the flight and a lot of exceptional talents. They didn’t operate as rookies.\\n\\n So we had a very challenging flight, being the first flight of the last phase of the assembly of the Station and the first of the truss elements to go up, big truss elements, if you exclude Z-1. It was, again, another kind of a step up in what we were doing, and we felt, again, some of the pressure doing four spacewalks on this flight and having two teams of two each going outside.\\n\\n It was kind of neat that Lee and I got teamed together, being the two gray-haired spacewalking grandfathers. That was pretty cool. I’m glad they called us the Silver Team instead of the Gray Team. That was nice of them. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember who came up with that title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think Steve Smith did. Yes, I think he called us the Silver Team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you liked that title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun, yes. Anytime that you have a handle like that or some unique thing, then the press tends to capture that and run with it, so, yes, it was kind of fun. Of course, I got a lot of ribbing from my friends back home. “Oh, the Silver Team.” I said I’d rather be doing that than working for a living, so, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about going up to the Station. You had been there for the first assembly mission and now you’re going back. What was it like coming up to the Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.6848617675112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, and I think everybody in the program, especially this time, feels some degree of responsibility, that couldn’t we have thought of something, been smarter, worked harder, been more diligent, to somehow preclude it from happening. So I think everybody feels some level of responsibility this time around, and to lose good friends is very difficult to do, and especially when you might have some part to play in it.\\n\\n This crew, the Columbia crew, was really a neat crew. They were really nice people. I was pretty close to several of them, as I was for some of the Challenger guys. I had flown to the Cape with them on an STA, or business jet, going down for launch. Dave [David M.] Brown and Mike [Michael P.] Anderson had worked for me, and I had helped get them assigned to this flight, and they were thrilled to be assigned. So there were a lot of close relationships there. I was with the crew when they were suiting up for launch, rode out to the LCC [Launch Control Center], where I got off and they went on out to the pad, and then to be waiting for them at the end of the runway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year has passed since the Columbia accident. Did you have a chance to go back up to Lufkin for the February 1st memorials or to Nacogdoches [Texas]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went up Hemphill [Texas] in, I think it was December to do a presentation up there at the VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars] hall. I had personal family friends down here over that weekend, and I had been requested to do the one in Lufkin, but I had to decline it because I had friends here. That was the only weekend they were here, so I could hardly leave to go do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to see the Super Bowl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did watch the Super Bowl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the NASA—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 51.872068630568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went up Hemphill [Texas] in, I think it was December to do a presentation up there at the VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars] hall. I had personal family friends down here over that weekend, and I had been requested to do the one in Lufkin, but I had to decline it because I had friends here. That was the only weekend they were here, so I could hardly leave to go do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a chance to see the Super Bowl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did watch the Super Bowl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the NASA—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they did a very nice job on that, as opposed to some other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We won’t talk about that. [Laughter]\\n\\n Once the recovery wrapped up, what have your duties been since that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s for other people to judge, I think. I think one of the things I’ve tried to concentrate on is trying to talk to a lot of schoolkids. A good share of my PR, the vast majority of my PR, probably, has been talking to kids and trying to get kids to understand that they live once and they get to go through life once and they ought to not waste the blessings that God gave them and the skills and talents that they’ve got. And I really encourage kids to try to understand what those talents and skills are and decide how they’re going to use them through their life and to set some goals and study hard and to work hard to achieve those goals. And if they want to be an astronaut, that’s great. If they want to be a doctor, that’s great. If they want to be a teacher, that’s super. Whatever they want to do, set those goals for themselves. They ought to be realistic and in tune with their talents and likes and dislikes and then go for it, because this country needs smart, productive people to maintain the type of living that we’ve got for ourselves and to keep our country secure and safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s an important message."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you mind if I asked Rebecca and Sandra if they have any questions for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one. What type of advice or suggestions do you give the rookie EVAers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00510:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you mind if I asked Rebecca and Sandra if they have any questions for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one. What type of advice or suggestions do you give the rookie EVAers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To rookie EVAers. Every rookie EVA guy that I see down at the Cape or wherever, before they go fly, I tell them to take some time to enjoy the view. You literally can be so engrossed in what you’re doing, that if you’re not careful, you can complete the entire EVA successfully and get back in the airlock and close the hatch and never really have a chance to look around and enjoy what you’re doing or where you’re at. So I tell them to just take a snapshot, take a mental, visual snapshot every once in a while of what they’re seeing and what they’re doing, and just kind of engrain that as deeply as they can in their brain. It’s kind of like a family vacation. If you’re the person that’s driving and you don’t get a chance to look around a whole lot, you get back in the driveway and you go, “Gee, we put a lot of miles on. What did we see?”\\n\\n From a personal side, that’s what I really encourage them to do, just enjoy the moment a little bit. Beyond that, just follow the procedures, do things by the numbers, and just take your time, get it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you’ve mentioned you talked to children so much, how is it that you’re able to share with them the emotions of what you experience of being outside in space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.121111579798056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re quite welcome. Glad to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’re glad to have you. We talked previously about some of the specifics of your career. I wanted to go back and talk about some of your general thoughts and impressions while you were working with NASA, beginning back with when you first became involved with the Space Task Group. Previously you’d been working with a lot of experimental and high-performance aircraft. What were your general thoughts about a space program at that time when you came to work with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d been working with all of the X- research airplanes, X-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, Douglas Sky Rocket, X-15. We didn’t think an awful lot about it until we got serious about it. Then really, we were the only people within NASA to have had hands-on experience with hypersonic speed, and I thought and hoped that I could contribute something to the program by applying my experience. So I moved from Edwards [Air Force Base, California] back to Langley Field [Virginia] with the Space Task Group, working with Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you certainly did apply a lot of that knowledge and experience that you had gained to help out with the program. You moved into a lot of interesting jobs and tasks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure did. I wouldn’t have it any different. There was ups and downs all the time, but through Apollo we always had a goal that could be completed. Of course, the Shuttle is a continuing program, and we hope the Space Station will be continuing. We hope it’ll be started soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully, we see that make some progress tonight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.13456842199784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’d been working with all of the X- research airplanes, X-1, -2, -3, -4, -5, Douglas Sky Rocket, X-15. We didn’t think an awful lot about it until we got serious about it. Then really, we were the only people within NASA to have had hands-on experience with hypersonic speed, and I thought and hoped that I could contribute something to the program by applying my experience. So I moved from Edwards [Air Force Base, California] back to Langley Field [Virginia] with the Space Task Group, working with Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you certainly did apply a lot of that knowledge and experience that you had gained to help out with the program. You moved into a lot of interesting jobs and tasks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure did. I wouldn’t have it any different. There was ups and downs all the time, but through Apollo we always had a goal that could be completed. Of course, the Shuttle is a continuing program, and we hope the Space Station will be continuing. We hope it’ll be started soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully, we see that make some progress tonight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were starting on the program, the ultimate goal, as you said, after Apollo, was to get to the Moon, but there was somewhat of a spirit of competition as well with the Russians [Soviets] who now we’ve gotten involved with in the Space Station. But at the time that you were working on these early programs, Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, were you very aware of what the Russians were doing and was there much pressure, or was it more just working toward the goal?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.260631579997598, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure did. I wouldn’t have it any different. There was ups and downs all the time, but through Apollo we always had a goal that could be completed. Of course, the Shuttle is a continuing program, and we hope the Space Station will be continuing. We hope it’ll be started soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully, we see that make some progress tonight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were starting on the program, the ultimate goal, as you said, after Apollo, was to get to the Moon, but there was somewhat of a spirit of competition as well with the Russians [Soviets] who now we’ve gotten involved with in the Space Station. But at the time that you were working on these early programs, Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, were you very aware of what the Russians were doing and was there much pressure, or was it more just working toward the goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always pressure to land on the Moon, but we never had any pressure to sacrifice safety for the schedule. Of course, it was a technical race, not a political race then. I think now everything’s political. It’s not up to me such to say whether that’s good or bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly it’s very different than it used to be."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.511812866663998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were starting on the program, the ultimate goal, as you said, after Apollo, was to get to the Moon, but there was somewhat of a spirit of competition as well with the Russians [Soviets] who now we’ve gotten involved with in the Space Station. But at the time that you were working on these early programs, Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, were you very aware of what the Russians were doing and was there much pressure, or was it more just working toward the goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always pressure to land on the Moon, but we never had any pressure to sacrifice safety for the schedule. Of course, it was a technical race, not a political race then. I think now everything’s political. It’s not up to me such to say whether that’s good or bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly it’s very different than it used to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The space program kind of went through an evolutionary—well, it was very evolutionary. It started with Mercury with one person and moving up to Gemini and Apollo and so forth. Each one became more technically complicated with broader goals, broader objectives, and you were involved with each program along the way. How did you take lessons learned from the previous programs and apply them to the next?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.67979207407111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was always pressure to land on the Moon, but we never had any pressure to sacrifice safety for the schedule. Of course, it was a technical race, not a political race then. I think now everything’s political. It’s not up to me such to say whether that’s good or bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly it’s very different than it used to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The space program kind of went through an evolutionary—well, it was very evolutionary. It started with Mercury with one person and moving up to Gemini and Apollo and so forth. Each one became more technically complicated with broader goals, broader objectives, and you were involved with each program along the way. How did you take lessons learned from the previous programs and apply them to the next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess part of it we called program memory; you remember a lot of things. We kept some documentation of lessons learned. Some of it seems like they’ve lost it all in the way they—of course, I was in manned spaceflight all the time, but some of the testing and configurations they’re putting out in these unmanned space projects, I think leaves something to be desired. But we must not overlook the fact that they are very, very difficult programs and they have less margin for error than manned programs, evidenced by Skylab. We would have lost a total program if we hadn’t taken advantage of the opportunity for man to accomplish something in space. Even without planning or training, I think we accomplished around 105 percent of what we set out to do after we had a very major structural failure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about Skylab and the failure, when that first happened, you had faced other failures before, in Apollo, problems like Apollo 13 and other minor failures along the way, too, but, as you mentioned, with Skylab that was such a major, a very critical—and could have meant the end of that program. How did everyone come together in a such short period of time to make that fix and make it work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.419496387742111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I guess part of it we called program memory; you remember a lot of things. We kept some documentation of lessons learned. Some of it seems like they’ve lost it all in the way they—of course, I was in manned spaceflight all the time, but some of the testing and configurations they’re putting out in these unmanned space projects, I think leaves something to be desired. But we must not overlook the fact that they are very, very difficult programs and they have less margin for error than manned programs, evidenced by Skylab. We would have lost a total program if we hadn’t taken advantage of the opportunity for man to accomplish something in space. Even without planning or training, I think we accomplished around 105 percent of what we set out to do after we had a very major structural failure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talking about Skylab and the failure, when that first happened, you had faced other failures before, in Apollo, problems like Apollo 13 and other minor failures along the way, too, but, as you mentioned, with Skylab that was such a major, a very critical—and could have meant the end of that program. How did everyone come together in a such short period of time to make that fix and make it work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t do it in short period of time. It would appear that way, but as an afterthought, when you look back, we’ve all been together all the time. We just didn’t know how close together we were. But everybody—the industry, contractors, universities, and NASA centers—all pitched in. As a matter of fact, we couldn’t stop getting some of the help we needed, because it was more than we could control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That spirit of teamwork is very important for making the whole program happen, and you had kind of seen that before, I’m assuming in Apollo 13 and in other similar events. Can you tell us some about some of the people that made up this team, both on the NASA side and the industry side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can’t cite at any one time anymore, but there was about 480,000 people working on Apollo before the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a few."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.02166265304679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t do it in short period of time. It would appear that way, but as an afterthought, when you look back, we’ve all been together all the time. We just didn’t know how close together we were. But everybody—the industry, contractors, universities, and NASA centers—all pitched in. As a matter of fact, we couldn’t stop getting some of the help we needed, because it was more than we could control."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That spirit of teamwork is very important for making the whole program happen, and you had kind of seen that before, I’m assuming in Apollo 13 and in other similar events. Can you tell us some about some of the people that made up this team, both on the NASA side and the industry side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can’t cite at any one time anymore, but there was about 480,000 people working on Apollo before the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a few."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many that had to come together to make it all happen. Again kind of talking with Skylab, you also worked later in your career on Spacelab and tied in with the Space Shuttle. Then looking now as we talked briefly about the Space Station and that hopefully that’s coming up to speed now, do you have some comparative thoughts on the three programs and things that we learned during Skylab that should apply to Space Station today or did apply for Spacelab?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.07612673215653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many that had to come together to make it all happen. Again kind of talking with Skylab, you also worked later in your career on Spacelab and tied in with the Space Shuttle. Then looking now as we talked briefly about the Space Station and that hopefully that’s coming up to speed now, do you have some comparative thoughts on the three programs and things that we learned during Skylab that should apply to Space Station today or did apply for Spacelab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nobody will ever just be able to dispute the fact that Skylab was our first space station. Spacelab, I guess, is sort of on the border, but it was not as general a lab as Skylab. But we learned a lot of lessons about testing and they’re all there. They’re still there, about testing systems end-to-end, environmental testing. I’m afraid we’re getting to be better, faster failures. I think we can turn that around. It is unfortunate to read about something that went on or was the cause of one of the recent anomalies, and say, “You know, we knew that. We’ve been there before.” But when you looked in the—what’s the newspaper for JSC?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Roundup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roundup. You don’t see many names you know anymore. I think the last two, I didn’t see a name in it I knew. So those people are gone, and you lose a lot of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully some people are managing to pass the experience down to the new people coming in, or hopefully through a project like ours."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.86236303572948, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nobody will ever just be able to dispute the fact that Skylab was our first space station. Spacelab, I guess, is sort of on the border, but it was not as general a lab as Skylab. But we learned a lot of lessons about testing and they’re all there. They’re still there, about testing systems end-to-end, environmental testing. I’m afraid we’re getting to be better, faster failures. I think we can turn that around. It is unfortunate to read about something that went on or was the cause of one of the recent anomalies, and say, “You know, we knew that. We’ve been there before.” But when you looked in the—what’s the newspaper for JSC?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Roundup."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roundup. You don’t see many names you know anymore. I think the last two, I didn’t see a name in it I knew. So those people are gone, and you lose a lot of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully some people are managing to pass the experience down to the new people coming in, or hopefully through a project like ours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some differences between each of the original programs. It seems that every program manager wants to do it his way. Sometimes they're better ideas and sometimes they're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did serve as a manager in some form or another for most of these programs, but yet you came from a very engineering and technical background. Did your background prepare you for these duties, and did you feel you were able to balance them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.402625595254975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Roundup. You don’t see many names you know anymore. I think the last two, I didn’t see a name in it I knew. So those people are gone, and you lose a lot of experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully some people are managing to pass the experience down to the new people coming in, or hopefully through a project like ours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some differences between each of the original programs. It seems that every program manager wants to do it his way. Sometimes they're better ideas and sometimes they're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did serve as a manager in some form or another for most of these programs, but yet you came from a very engineering and technical background. Did your background prepare you for these duties, and did you feel you were able to balance them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’d worked with the rocket engines. We had rocket engines in X-1, X-2, and X-15, and so I was very familiar with the rocket engine and its operation and with flying advanced hardware. We were the only place you could find it, at Edwards and Lewis [Research Center; Cleveland, Ohio] to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a typical day for you while you were at NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.780695105838861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some differences between each of the original programs. It seems that every program manager wants to do it his way. Sometimes they're better ideas and sometimes they're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did serve as a manager in some form or another for most of these programs, but yet you came from a very engineering and technical background. Did your background prepare you for these duties, and did you feel you were able to balance them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’d worked with the rocket engines. We had rocket engines in X-1, X-2, and X-15, and so I was very familiar with the rocket engine and its operation and with flying advanced hardware. We were the only place you could find it, at Edwards and Lewis [Research Center; Cleveland, Ohio] to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a typical day for you while you were at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Get up at six, go to work at seven, come home at eight, and handle things as they came up. I had a goal of never being indecisive. There are people that manage by indecision, waiting. My philosophy was, all right, after you had what you thought was enough information to make a decision, get started down the pathway to where you wanted to go. If that wasn’t right, you could always turn back and do it over. Doing that was less expensive than being indecisive and carrying a program down two parallel paths. We did that at times for technical reasons because it was clear for some aspects of a program, it could go either way. But there were other circumstances that would say, you shouldn’t do this. So we carried them in parallel until we could settle those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can always make sure you had the best choice then by having those two."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.311883450932067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I’d worked with the rocket engines. We had rocket engines in X-1, X-2, and X-15, and so I was very familiar with the rocket engine and its operation and with flying advanced hardware. We were the only place you could find it, at Edwards and Lewis [Research Center; Cleveland, Ohio] to some extent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a typical day for you while you were at NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Get up at six, go to work at seven, come home at eight, and handle things as they came up. I had a goal of never being indecisive. There are people that manage by indecision, waiting. My philosophy was, all right, after you had what you thought was enough information to make a decision, get started down the pathway to where you wanted to go. If that wasn’t right, you could always turn back and do it over. Doing that was less expensive than being indecisive and carrying a program down two parallel paths. We did that at times for technical reasons because it was clear for some aspects of a program, it could go either way. But there were other circumstances that would say, you shouldn’t do this. So we carried them in parallel until we could settle those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can always make sure you had the best choice then by having those two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly seemed to have panned out pretty well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.013203834368962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. Get up at six, go to work at seven, come home at eight, and handle things as they came up. I had a goal of never being indecisive. There are people that manage by indecision, waiting. My philosophy was, all right, after you had what you thought was enough information to make a decision, get started down the pathway to where you wanted to go. If that wasn’t right, you could always turn back and do it over. Doing that was less expensive than being indecisive and carrying a program down two parallel paths. We did that at times for technical reasons because it was clear for some aspects of a program, it could go either way. But there were other circumstances that would say, you shouldn’t do this. So we carried them in parallel until we could settle those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can always make sure you had the best choice then by having those two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly seemed to have panned out pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me talk about the early part of the programs. Of course, we didn’t have money. All we had to do was dream about money, and somebody’d jam some down our throat in Mercury. In Apollo, it got a little tighter. Then after the Apollo fire we were able to get more money. I don’t think the fire was the cause for it. I think we did a lot of things after the fire that didn’t necessarily have to be done. You know, you have to be careful in situations like that that if isn’t broken, you don’t fix it. There was a lot of things that weren’t broken that got fixed and cost a lot of money. I thought at one time the way to become a hero was to foul something up and then come in and spend your way out of it. The more money you spent, the bigger hero you were. There’s been some cases of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily, I think, a lot of people were very concerned, as you had mentioned earlier, of the safety and were willing to pay that extra—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.90355981596551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly seemed to have panned out pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me talk about the early part of the programs. Of course, we didn’t have money. All we had to do was dream about money, and somebody’d jam some down our throat in Mercury. In Apollo, it got a little tighter. Then after the Apollo fire we were able to get more money. I don’t think the fire was the cause for it. I think we did a lot of things after the fire that didn’t necessarily have to be done. You know, you have to be careful in situations like that that if isn’t broken, you don’t fix it. There was a lot of things that weren’t broken that got fixed and cost a lot of money. I thought at one time the way to become a hero was to foul something up and then come in and spend your way out of it. The more money you spent, the bigger hero you were. There’s been some cases of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily, I think, a lot of people were very concerned, as you had mentioned earlier, of the safety and were willing to pay that extra—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there’s always of things that aren’t black and white, but if you keep trying to improve everything you had, you never get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true. It must have been hard sometimes to call that line, to say, “Okay, we’re here. This works, but we’ve got to stop.” Hard to make those decisions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.89284423996168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me talk about the early part of the programs. Of course, we didn’t have money. All we had to do was dream about money, and somebody’d jam some down our throat in Mercury. In Apollo, it got a little tighter. Then after the Apollo fire we were able to get more money. I don’t think the fire was the cause for it. I think we did a lot of things after the fire that didn’t necessarily have to be done. You know, you have to be careful in situations like that that if isn’t broken, you don’t fix it. There was a lot of things that weren’t broken that got fixed and cost a lot of money. I thought at one time the way to become a hero was to foul something up and then come in and spend your way out of it. The more money you spent, the bigger hero you were. There’s been some cases of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily, I think, a lot of people were very concerned, as you had mentioned earlier, of the safety and were willing to pay that extra—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there’s always of things that aren’t black and white, but if you keep trying to improve everything you had, you never get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true. It must have been hard sometimes to call that line, to say, “Okay, we’re here. This works, but we’ve got to stop.” Hard to make those decisions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Was it Joe [Joseph F.] Shea had a saying that “the better was the enemy of the good.” There were times when we actually improved ourselves into some problems. Fortunately we found them through the comprehensive testing program. But it can be done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are so many parts and so many pieces of everything that had to come together to make it all happen, especially for Apollo, and you were starting from basically having never done this before, never sent a man into space on Mercury, and it all happened within a time frame of less than ten years. It took so many technological advances along the way. Did you ever stop and wonder if it was all really going to happen or to ponder some of those changes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.48899090579295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Again talking about the people and sacrifices people made, one of the people who hasn’t got a lot of exposure in the program is Dr. Gilruth. He did a lot, but he’s always been kind of behind the scenes when it comes to the written histories and published books and such. Can you tell us a little bit about him? You worked pretty close with him for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's the biggest unsung hero I think I’ve ever known. He’s truly the father of manned spaceflight, not rocketry. Seems like everybody is more interested in rockets, so [Wernher] von Braun got all the publicity, and von Braun is more outgoing, he could talk to the people better. Bob just had his mind focused on the technical aspects of the program and how to get there.\\n\\n I can’t ever remember Bob telling anybody how to do something or to not do something. He just talked with them and talked with them, and, if you will, negotiated till they thought his idea was theirs and then it got done that way. Of course, he hasn’t been recognized after, and now it won’t do him any good. He doesn’t know what’s going on in the world now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the one that went up to see [Dwight D.] Eisenhower to brief him on the Mercury, and Eisenhower said, “What are we waiting for? Let’s go.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The space program certainly owes a lot to Dr. Gilruth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.714803587398702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was the one that went up to see [Dwight D.] Eisenhower to brief him on the Mercury, and Eisenhower said, “What are we waiting for? Let’s go.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The space program certainly owes a lot to Dr. Gilruth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of these people that were working for self—I don’t want to say “preservation,” for self-recognition, I guess—that want to step in and take over, you know. Mercury, we had—well, in fact, the doctors for a long time didn’t know whether we ought to do it or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a number of them that was against it, or at least wanted to slow it down. I won’t say they were against it. But when we got the first flight off, everybody wanted to jump aboard, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They began to realize that it could be done and that everybody would be okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.016448430443003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of these people that were working for self—I don’t want to say “preservation,” for self-recognition, I guess—that want to step in and take over, you know. Mercury, we had—well, in fact, the doctors for a long time didn’t know whether we ought to do it or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a number of them that was against it, or at least wanted to slow it down. I won’t say they were against it. But when we got the first flight off, everybody wanted to jump aboard, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They began to realize that it could be done and that everybody would be okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they wanted to be a part of it then. Didn’t want to sit back and say, “Well, we told you so.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up an interesting point. Early on, very early on, as the program was just getting started, the Space Task Group was able to bring in a lot of younger people, and a few of the upper management types, a lot of people didn’t want to get involved early on because it seemed such a long shot or that it wouldn’t be possible. People talk about how the younger people just didn’t know that it wasn’t possible to do, that they just were excited about it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.462720478270002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a number of them that was against it, or at least wanted to slow it down. I won’t say they were against it. But when we got the first flight off, everybody wanted to jump aboard, and they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They began to realize that it could be done and that everybody would be okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they wanted to be a part of it then. Didn’t want to sit back and say, “Well, we told you so.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up an interesting point. Early on, very early on, as the program was just getting started, the Space Task Group was able to bring in a lot of younger people, and a few of the upper management types, a lot of people didn’t want to get involved early on because it seemed such a long shot or that it wouldn’t be possible. People talk about how the younger people just didn’t know that it wasn’t possible to do, that they just were excited about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you very involved—a large group of individuals came down from Avro [Ltd.] up in Canada to fill in some of that middle-management role. Did you have a lot of involvement with that or dealing with them in general?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.0696894203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they wanted to be a part of it then. Didn’t want to sit back and say, “Well, we told you so.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up an interesting point. Early on, very early on, as the program was just getting started, the Space Task Group was able to bring in a lot of younger people, and a few of the upper management types, a lot of people didn’t want to get involved early on because it seemed such a long shot or that it wouldn’t be possible. People talk about how the younger people just didn’t know that it wasn’t possible to do, that they just were excited about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you very involved—a large group of individuals came down from Avro [Ltd.] up in Canada to fill in some of that middle-management role. Did you have a lot of involvement with that or dealing with them in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we worked with them. They were integrated right into our organizations. It wasn’t a separate group sitting out to the side. They were all very good people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fit right in without many problems, and everybody just want to work for the program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.855210467000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you very involved—a large group of individuals came down from Avro [Ltd.] up in Canada to fill in some of that middle-management role. Did you have a lot of involvement with that or dealing with them in general?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we worked with them. They were integrated right into our organizations. It wasn’t a separate group sitting out to the side. They were all very good people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fit right in without many problems, and everybody just want to work for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program had built up and working on Mercury, working on Gemini and Apollo and always shooting for the goal of getting to the Moon, as the Apollo Program was being accomplished, as the landings were happening, was when you transferred over to work on the Skylab Program. But Apollo only lasted for a few years before it was terminated. Did you have any thoughts with the ending of the Apollo Program and the loss of that specific goal?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 18.72801163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we worked with them. They were integrated right into our organizations. It wasn’t a separate group sitting out to the side. They were all very good people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fit right in without many problems, and everybody just want to work for the program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the program had built up and working on Mercury, working on Gemini and Apollo and always shooting for the goal of getting to the Moon, as the Apollo Program was being accomplished, as the landings were happening, was when you transferred over to work on the Skylab Program. But Apollo only lasted for a few years before it was terminated. Did you have any thoughts with the ending of the Apollo Program and the loss of that specific goal?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t. There were a lot of people that wanted to extend Skylab. They even tried to, and I think that was ludicrous. We designed the program to accomplish certain experiments, we did that, and it was over. We could have flown some more. Great expense, and we’d have just been repeating—generally, we’d been repeating what we’ve already done, and to some extent, we’re doing that with Shuttle now because Space Station hasn’t come along on time.\\n\\n I think Apollo accomplished its goal, and there was no more reason to fly except to glorify some more astronauts, I guess. See, Mercury was designed to be a three-orbit spacecraft—no, an orbital spacecraft, one orbit. When I came to the Space Task Group, it was too heavy to do one orbit. We kept working on weight, working on weight, and we got it down to we could do three orbits. So I guess—see, my memory’s so bad—was John [H.] Glenn [Jr.] the three-orbit?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe so. Three or six."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.0683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jim Webb is another person that unfortunately we can’t talk to, but can you tell us a little bit about him as a NASA administrator, his career for so many years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was just an outstanding administrator. He knew and understood the federal government. I think he knew where a lot of ghosts were hidden in Congress, because when he wanted something, he just went up and told them. One time we went to Webb with a budget for Apollo and he just doubled it. He said, “That’s how much it’s going to take,” and he was right. He talked to people, not down to them. Of course, sometimes he’d get to talking and by the time he finished, you weren’t sure about everything he talked about. But he could hold people’s attention."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly seemed to be the right man for the job, looking back on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back to when NASA was first founded and it was a fledgling agency, people coming in from all over to build it up, to make it happen, building off of the NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics], and NASA was able to accomplish so much in such a short time, what do you think now that it would take for a program like Apollo to happen again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Their Spacelab has performed outstandingly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will be interesting to see how the partnership grows."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, you know, you wonder. They built it and gave it to us. We had all kinds of agreements, and we could still be using it, but it’s been pickled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully all will go well with the Space Station on the right side of things, and we’ll see some of that progress being made again.\\n\\n We’ve covered most of the topics that I had. Are there any thoughts that you would like share with us on anything in your career with NASA or, again, any particular memories or events or people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, overall, I’d like to say again that I think Bob Gilruth was most likely the most important man in the program for getting it started, getting it organized, getting the money to start with, and managing it through lunar orbit.\\n\\n Walt Williams came from Edwards where I did and, in fact, he invited me to come. He had a lot to do with the success of the program because he’d been managing the operations of the high-speed airplanes. There’s a lot of others. If you start naming, you can’t stop, so I’ll stop there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a lot of important people that all had to be in the right place at the right time and give it a lot to make it all work. We certainly appreciate all you did for the program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00328:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, you know, you wonder. They built it and gave it to us. We had all kinds of agreements, and we could still be using it, but it’s been pickled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully all will go well with the Space Station on the right side of things, and we’ll see some of that progress being made again.\\n\\n We’ve covered most of the topics that I had. Are there any thoughts that you would like share with us on anything in your career with NASA or, again, any particular memories or events or people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, overall, I’d like to say again that I think Bob Gilruth was most likely the most important man in the program for getting it started, getting it organized, getting the money to start with, and managing it through lunar orbit.\\n\\n Walt Williams came from Edwards where I did and, in fact, he invited me to come. He had a lot to do with the success of the program because he’d been managing the operations of the high-speed airplanes. There’s a lot of others. If you start naming, you can’t stop, so I’ll stop there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a lot of important people that all had to be in the right place at the right time and give it a lot to make it all work. We certainly appreciate all you did for the program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you and thank you for talking with us."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.273139435996553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My staging took place in Miami. Miami, Florida. It was actually my first time going to Miami as well, so that was pretty dope. And it was kind of a little shock. I was like, damn, like this lower Latin America it sounded like. They're speaking an awful lot of Spanish here. And I was like, we didn't even leave the country yet. Why am I getting hit in the head with all this? But it was dope. It was awesome. I enjoyed Miami a lot and I look forward to returning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Approximately, I would say approximately 50. To be more exact, it was like 47 or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were all of you in the urban youth development program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was approximately 50, 47 or so. Two cohorts. One cohort, Omnibus 118. In this cohort, there were two programs. There are in Ecuador in general, however, in this cohort there were two. There was the youth and families program and there was also the community development program.\n\nAnd something else that was really notable with staging. I was extremely surprised by the diversity of the cohort. Because like from my knowledge, my perspective, what I had heard and seen, I guess, just like the traditional Peace Corps history, the majority of volunteers, RPCVs, are Caucasian. They're white. And so, you know, that was, I was like, OK, like, I'm going to be a super minority here. Which I didn't have a problem with, I'm coming from a black city. But thankfully, you know, I met my fair share of people in life and especially undergrad, interning in Annapolis with the Maryland General Assembly, interning at like the World Trade Center Institute. But this was going to be something different, and it was an extremely nice mix. So that was a very great feeling to start off my Peace Corps journey. Again, it was people from all walks of life, every, every. I feel like a lot of ethnicities were represented in that cohort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did you stay in Miami?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.414599373329503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Approximately, I would say approximately 50. To be more exact, it was like 47 or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were all of you in the urban youth development program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was approximately 50, 47 or so. Two cohorts. One cohort, Omnibus 118. In this cohort, there were two programs. There are in Ecuador in general, however, in this cohort there were two. There was the youth and families program and there was also the community development program.\n\nAnd something else that was really notable with staging. I was extremely surprised by the diversity of the cohort. Because like from my knowledge, my perspective, what I had heard and seen, I guess, just like the traditional Peace Corps history, the majority of volunteers, RPCVs, are Caucasian. They're white. And so, you know, that was, I was like, OK, like, I'm going to be a super minority here. Which I didn't have a problem with, I'm coming from a black city. But thankfully, you know, I met my fair share of people in life and especially undergrad, interning in Annapolis with the Maryland General Assembly, interning at like the World Trade Center Institute. But this was going to be something different, and it was an extremely nice mix. So that was a very great feeling to start off my Peace Corps journey. Again, it was people from all walks of life, every, every. I feel like a lot of ethnicities were represented in that cohort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many days did you stay in Miami?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed there maybe three days or so. That may be three days, two nights, something like that. Maybe it was longer. I really recall, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any trainings during your staging that took place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.092097991764819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We stayed there maybe three days or so. That may be three days, two nights, something like that. Maybe it was longer. I really recall, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any trainings during your staging that took place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall them, but there were several trainings to prepare us for departure and also maybe like some scared straights. Like, oh look, if you ain't serious about it, like don't get on that plane. I'm joking around maybe. They really did put an emphasis like, you know, it's the last time before you guys depart. So, you know, if it's really not for you, you know, it's like this is the last chance. And they didn't blatantly say that, but like, that's kind of like the tone. And from that, only one individual left. There was some gentleman, I mean, that was the only person who left prior to staging. Or during staging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I remember in my staging that this was when I received my official Peace Corps passport. So as someone who never traveled abroad, was that your very first passport? And if so, how did you feel when you got your passport in your hand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a great question. So despite not traveling abroad, I was ready before I even went to Peace Corps. I had a passport when I was an undergrad, I was just waiting for the right opportunity. So I had a passport several years, you know, before the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just never used it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.435664435294242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall them, but there were several trainings to prepare us for departure and also maybe like some scared straights. Like, oh look, if you ain't serious about it, like don't get on that plane. I'm joking around maybe. They really did put an emphasis like, you know, it's the last time before you guys depart. So, you know, if it's really not for you, you know, it's like this is the last chance. And they didn't blatantly say that, but like, that's kind of like the tone. And from that, only one individual left. There was some gentleman, I mean, that was the only person who left prior to staging. Or during staging."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I remember in my staging that this was when I received my official Peace Corps passport. So as someone who never traveled abroad, was that your very first passport? And if so, how did you feel when you got your passport in your hand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a great question. So despite not traveling abroad, I was ready before I even went to Peace Corps. I had a passport when I was an undergrad, I was just waiting for the right opportunity. So I had a passport several years, you know, before the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just never used it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never had an opportunity to use it. So when I finally, I think I didn't get my. For me personally, I don't think we got our passports until we were in country, actually. Oh, I forgot. Don't. I forgot, but maybe I don't even remember. But the one thing I do remember when I got my Peace Corps passport was I was disappointed. I was disappointed because my personal passport, some Walgreens or Rite Aid employee ain't do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked the picture better."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.928516039215825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a great question. So despite not traveling abroad, I was ready before I even went to Peace Corps. I had a passport when I was an undergrad, I was just waiting for the right opportunity. So I had a passport several years, you know, before the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just never used it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never had an opportunity to use it. So when I finally, I think I didn't get my. For me personally, I don't think we got our passports until we were in country, actually. Oh, I forgot. Don't. I forgot, but maybe I don't even remember. But the one thing I do remember when I got my Peace Corps passport was I was disappointed. I was disappointed because my personal passport, some Walgreens or Rite Aid employee ain't do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked the picture better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they allowed me to smile and I think I have a great smile. And so I was extremely impressed and I said, that man looked good. He looks great. I looked outstanding in my regular passport, but unfortunately somebody started doing their job and I had like this straight face that I really didn't like that, honestly. So it was dope, like, oh this is a Peace Corps passport. I got two passports. Like, you know, it wasn't a diplomatic passport, but it was like, it was dope and like the idea. But I was a little disappointed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The idea of legally having two passports."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.58724004357314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Never had an opportunity to use it. So when I finally, I think I didn't get my. For me personally, I don't think we got our passports until we were in country, actually. Oh, I forgot. Don't. I forgot, but maybe I don't even remember. But the one thing I do remember when I got my Peace Corps passport was I was disappointed. I was disappointed because my personal passport, some Walgreens or Rite Aid employee ain't do their job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You liked the picture better."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they allowed me to smile and I think I have a great smile. And so I was extremely impressed and I said, that man looked good. He looks great. I looked outstanding in my regular passport, but unfortunately somebody started doing their job and I had like this straight face that I really didn't like that, honestly. So it was dope, like, oh this is a Peace Corps passport. I got two passports. Like, you know, it wasn't a diplomatic passport, but it was like, it was dope and like the idea. But I was a little disappointed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The idea of legally having two passports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like having a Peace Corps passport, whatever I thought that meant at that time. But the picture was just like. But it was dope. It was cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get on, was it a direct flight to Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.430266715081267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they allowed me to smile and I think I have a great smile. And so I was extremely impressed and I said, that man looked good. He looks great. I looked outstanding in my regular passport, but unfortunately somebody started doing their job and I had like this straight face that I really didn't like that, honestly. So it was dope, like, oh this is a Peace Corps passport. I got two passports. Like, you know, it wasn't a diplomatic passport, but it was like, it was dope and like the idea. But I was a little disappointed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The idea of legally having two passports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, like having a Peace Corps passport, whatever I thought that meant at that time. But the picture was just like. But it was dope. It was cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get on, was it a direct flight to Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was from Miami. It was a direct flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for you getting out, stepping off of the plane? What were the sounds, the smells? You know, what did you see? What was the shock factor like when you realized, I'm in another country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.111440388989216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was from Miami. It was a direct flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like for you getting out, stepping off of the plane? What were the sounds, the smells? You know, what did you see? What was the shock factor like when you realized, I'm in another country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. That's a great question. So we got there at like, I don't, I don't remember. But it was early morning, maybe 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, something like that. But the thing that really stood out was this weird smell to me, and I don't know if it was really a weird. I asked a few people, and apparently it was just me. Maybe it was just the difference in the air quality or whatever the case may be. Quito is actually one of, maybe it's changed. They share like, it's the highest capital in the world, and if it's not the highest, it's definitely one of the highest. So the altitude plays a very significant role and factor for a lot of people. Pardon me. When they travel to Quito, especially if they are coming from a sea level city, which most, you know, cities on the East Coast of the U.S. are. Maybe the closest thing to prepare you for Quito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Miami?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for Quito, specifically, in Ecuador would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's higher."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.568267098876905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. That's a great question. So we got there at like, I don't, I don't remember. But it was early morning, maybe 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, something like that. But the thing that really stood out was this weird smell to me, and I don't know if it was really a weird. I asked a few people, and apparently it was just me. Maybe it was just the difference in the air quality or whatever the case may be. Quito is actually one of, maybe it's changed. They share like, it's the highest capital in the world, and if it's not the highest, it's definitely one of the highest. So the altitude plays a very significant role and factor for a lot of people. Pardon me. When they travel to Quito, especially if they are coming from a sea level city, which most, you know, cities on the East Coast of the U.S. are. Maybe the closest thing to prepare you for Quito."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Miami?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for Quito, specifically, in Ecuador would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's higher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Maybe mile high Denver. But Quito is however many meters higher. And so maybe that's just what it was. It was the air, a little, whatever. But that's something. I don't know if it was the smell or whatever, but that's what really stood out to me upon arriving in Ecuador. It was like the biggest thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity? Oh, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.18696344319656, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, for Quito, specifically, in Ecuador would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it's higher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Maybe mile high Denver. But Quito is however many meters higher. And so maybe that's just what it was. It was the air, a little, whatever. But that's something. I don't know if it was the smell or whatever, but that's what really stood out to me upon arriving in Ecuador. It was like the biggest thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity? Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. And the airport was really modern, so it wasn't like what people think or at least what I thought. And a lot of people think about Peace Corps, middle of nowhere. No, it was super modern. So it was like, I don't know, stepping off of, going to any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air conditioning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.985514936885068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Maybe mile high Denver. But Quito is however many meters higher. And so maybe that's just what it was. It was the air, a little, whatever. But that's something. I don't know if it was the smell or whatever, but that's what really stood out to me upon arriving in Ecuador. It was like the biggest thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an opportunity? Oh, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. And the airport was really modern, so it wasn't like what people think or at least what I thought. And a lot of people think about Peace Corps, middle of nowhere. No, it was super modern. So it was like, I don't know, stepping off of, going to any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was extremely modern. So I just wanted to add that for the record. It wasn't like what we think, middle of nowhere, small plane, dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, if anyone, did you all meet anyone at the airport? Did anyone from Peace Corps staff meet with you upon landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.98390548542785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry. And the airport was really modern, so it wasn't like what people think or at least what I thought. And a lot of people think about Peace Corps, middle of nowhere. No, it was super modern. So it was like, I don't know, stepping off of, going to any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had air conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was extremely modern. So I just wanted to add that for the record. It wasn't like what we think, middle of nowhere, small plane, dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, if anyone, did you all meet anyone at the airport? Did anyone from Peace Corps staff meet with you upon landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I guess surprisingly, and I thought it was standard. Apparently, it's not. But our country director was actually there upon arriving. The deputy country director. Several key staff from the pre- service training were there as well, in addition to several PCVLs. PCVL stands for Peace Corps volunteer leaders. And so we were embraced. Like we arrived and those people were there to help us with our bags, show us to the shuttle, and we went to the hostel. So those were some of the first people that were notable upon arriving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed at a hostel with all 47 or 46 volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.204339428253167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was extremely modern. So I just wanted to add that for the record. It wasn't like what we think, middle of nowhere, small plane, dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who, if anyone, did you all meet anyone at the airport? Did anyone from Peace Corps staff meet with you upon landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I guess surprisingly, and I thought it was standard. Apparently, it's not. But our country director was actually there upon arriving. The deputy country director. Several key staff from the pre- service training were there as well, in addition to several PCVLs. PCVL stands for Peace Corps volunteer leaders. And so we were embraced. Like we arrived and those people were there to help us with our bags, show us to the shuttle, and we went to the hostel. So those were some of the first people that were notable upon arriving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed at a hostel with all 47 or 46 volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were deep. It was like 47. I think it might have been like two more people who ain't, who never showed, that might have took away from that. Maybe two or three, whatever, something like that, who didn't show and then like the one kid who dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was in Quito, specifically where you landed and where the hostel was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.67148825361463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I guess surprisingly, and I thought it was standard. Apparently, it's not. But our country director was actually there upon arriving. The deputy country director. Several key staff from the pre- service training were there as well, in addition to several PCVLs. PCVL stands for Peace Corps volunteer leaders. And so we were embraced. Like we arrived and those people were there to help us with our bags, show us to the shuttle, and we went to the hostel. So those were some of the first people that were notable upon arriving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed at a hostel with all 47 or 46 volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were deep. It was like 47. I think it might have been like two more people who ain't, who never showed, that might have took away from that. Maybe two or three, whatever, something like that, who didn't show and then like the one kid who dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was in Quito, specifically where you landed and where the hostel was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quito. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that where you had your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 27.41276472623848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were deep. It was like 47. I think it might have been like two more people who ain't, who never showed, that might have took away from that. Maybe two or three, whatever, something like that, who didn't show and then like the one kid who dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was in Quito, specifically where you landed and where the hostel was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quito. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that where you had your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to a hotel that was by the Peace Corps like headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said hotel or did you mean the hostel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.79196080693164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quito. Uh-huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is that where you had your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to a hotel that was by the Peace Corps like headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said hotel or did you mean the hostel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to. So when we arrived, we stayed at a hostel. And the Peace Corps, I didn't know it at the time, but the Peace Corps headquarters was like two blocks away. But we stayed at a hostel maybe. Did we get there during the week? I forgot. We stayed there for, like, maybe we arrived in the middle of the week and we went back and forth until the end of the week until the weekend came and then we went to our host families. But no. Where we stayed and the training center were in two different parts of Quito. The training center was in a community called Monteserrin and that is a really exclusive neighborhood in Quito actually. It's a neighborhood where some of the well-to-do, maybe even elite, stay. A lot of diplomats live there. President Correa lived there at one time. The U.S. ambassador had a home there. And that's where the training center was. So no, where we originally arrived and where we trained were two different locations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so after your first weekend, you went to a host family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 26.435512007701824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to a hotel that was by the Peace Corps like headquarters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said hotel or did you mean the hostel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to. So when we arrived, we stayed at a hostel. And the Peace Corps, I didn't know it at the time, but the Peace Corps headquarters was like two blocks away. But we stayed at a hostel maybe. Did we get there during the week? I forgot. We stayed there for, like, maybe we arrived in the middle of the week and we went back and forth until the end of the week until the weekend came and then we went to our host families. But no. Where we stayed and the training center were in two different parts of Quito. The training center was in a community called Monteserrin and that is a really exclusive neighborhood in Quito actually. It's a neighborhood where some of the well-to-do, maybe even elite, stay. A lot of diplomats live there. President Correa lived there at one time. The U.S. ambassador had a home there. And that's where the training center was. So no, where we originally arrived and where we trained were two different locations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so after your first weekend, you went to a host family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how were they assigned to you? How did your initial meeting with this new family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.847665304792166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Technical training? So technical training simply refers to the program in which you'll be serving. There are few programs in the Peace Corps. Don't quote me on all of them right now, but there's the youth and family program. There's the TEFL, teaching English as a foreign language program. There's the community development program. There's the agricultural program. There's the business development program. And there's one more I'm missing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Health."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Health. Did I say community development? That's what I meant, health. But anyway, so those are approximately six programs. Technical training just refers to the program in which you'll be serving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for me, technical training was related to youth development. And youth development specifically with Ecuadorians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to move beyond training in a moment, but I do have two questions for you. What was that first dinner like and was it something that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.86475431305009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a great question. I can't really recall the first night to the T or exactly, but I do recall my room. I had my own room. I mean, their home was nice. They lived in like a three-story home. They rented out like the second floor to another family. We lived on the first floor. I had my own room. It was four walls. I mean, I'm not constipated. But when it was lights out and it was dark, it was dark. There were no windows to let light in, so that was a little unique and different. But you know, I had my own room. It's cool. I mean, I had my own room before I left, too, but I thought it was dope. I ain't really know what to expect, where we would be going like. It was definitely way far removed from what I originally thought, middle of nowhere and all types of wild, stereotypical things. And I was impressed. I was impressed by the room and just their home in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many of you swore in as volunteers? Well, let me rephrase. Did the majority of you make it to swearing-in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed a few weeks extra to get additional language training. Were you all assigned a counterpart at your new location that you would be living in for the next two years? And if so, did you meet them while you were still in training? How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did we meet our counterparts essentially? OK. So yeah, thankfully, so towards the end of our pre-service training, we were informed of where we essentially would be serving the next two years. And then not too long after that, I think that following week, we met our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a choice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 37.62750479227788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you stayed a few weeks extra to get additional language training. Were you all assigned a counterpart at your new location that you would be living in for the next two years? And if so, did you meet them while you were still in training? How did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did we meet our counterparts essentially? OK. So yeah, thankfully, so towards the end of our pre-service training, we were informed of where we essentially would be serving the next two years. And then not too long after that, I think that following week, we met our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was before swearing-in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, OK. Did you have a choice or did you have any input in terms of where you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 40.69722754697543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How did we meet our counterparts essentially? OK. So yeah, thankfully, so towards the end of our pre-service training, we were informed of where we essentially would be serving the next two years. And then not too long after that, I think that following week, we met our counterparts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was before swearing-in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, OK. Did you have a choice or did you have any input in terms of where you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where you would serve? Um. Unfortunately, I mean, and that's so selfish, but you got to keep in mind like the bigger Peace Corps and the ten core expectations and being willing to go and serve where you're needed and whatever. But no. So unfortunately, no. After we got to country, we didn't have an option to where we wanted to serve. For me, which was a bummer, I would have preferred to serve elsewhere, specifically at an Afro Ecuadorian community. However, I was informed that there were no Afro Ecuadorian sites available to serve in, so that was disappointing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that because they weren't open for volunteers or they just were filled?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00167:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly. Definitely want to continue in international development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you still want to work with youth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly. No ands, ifs, or buts about that. You know, like I said, it's a blessing that I'm here. Not super religious, but I'm appreciative of that. And I'm here because of some of the people who invested in it and me and mentored me and taught me some of the soft skills to kind of navigate the world to get to where I am today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think it's only right to pay that forward because had it not been for them, I'm almost certain that I wouldn't be where I am. I wouldn't have made it to the Peace Corps. I wouldn't have made it to underground, wouldn't have graduated. Wouldn't have had that job. It's just a lot of things that wouldn't, I don't believe, would have come into fruition had it not been for them. So it's only right to pay it forward. So I definitely plan to continue with youth, but I definitely want to continue in the international development field and just my ultimate goal is to contribute to ending extreme poverty. Obviously, I don't believe it'll end in my lifetime. But I want to be a part of making that contribution to say, one day, not even. It'd be dope if you know somebody like, actually remember my name one day. They're like, remember Imhotep, you know, that'd be dope. I want to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You want to know that you did something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 38.1599568919205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you, Pat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we're delighted that your story can go into the John F. Kennedy Library and represent the thousands of Peace Corps volunteers who have served in various countries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm really honored. I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're delighted to have you joined this group. So we're going to start by covering a little bit of your pre Peace Corps years. A lot of the interview will be focusing on what you did in Peace Corps and how you experienced that. And in the end, we'll have some reflections about the Peace Corps and how it's influenced your life and what you're doing now, for example. So let's start about before you joined the Peace Corps and think what were you doing in the year just before you went into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been a nurse since 1970 and so I was working. I was working in a hospital and preparing, because I had filled out the information to go to Peace Corps and was just working and waiting to hear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So let's go back even further. Your family of origin, where did you grow up and was your family exposed at all to international things? But just talk about your family of origin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.399952102133884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm really honored. I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're delighted to have you joined this group. So we're going to start by covering a little bit of your pre Peace Corps years. A lot of the interview will be focusing on what you did in Peace Corps and how you experienced that. And in the end, we'll have some reflections about the Peace Corps and how it's influenced your life and what you're doing now, for example. So let's start about before you joined the Peace Corps and think what were you doing in the year just before you went into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been a nurse since 1970 and so I was working. I was working in a hospital and preparing, because I had filled out the information to go to Peace Corps and was just working and waiting to hear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So let's go back even further. Your family of origin, where did you grow up and was your family exposed at all to international things? But just talk about your family of origin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am actually third generation in this country, my parents. No actually, second generation. My parents were first generation. All of my grandparents were from Sicily and they came to this country around 1880s, 1890s. So both of my parents were the first born here in 1908 and 1916. So very, uh, a very quote Italian family. And I was born in actually East St. Louis, Illinois, in 1948. And basically lived in Illinois, around there and in St. Louis, Missouri, up until I went to Peace Corps. Other than I had a two year time away from St. Louis when I was living in Tacoma, Washington. I had been married at the time and my husband then was in the Army. So I came out to Washington state and I was in nursing school at the time. And so I actually finished my diploma school nursing program, which is something they had back then that they don't have now, and was able to graduate at a hospital in Tacoma, Washington. And from that time on, I did nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what year was that that you finished your diploma for nursing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 24.888835669037647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been a nurse since 1970 and so I was working. I was working in a hospital and preparing, because I had filled out the information to go to Peace Corps and was just working and waiting to hear."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So let's go back even further. Your family of origin, where did you grow up and was your family exposed at all to international things? But just talk about your family of origin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am actually third generation in this country, my parents. No actually, second generation. My parents were first generation. All of my grandparents were from Sicily and they came to this country around 1880s, 1890s. So both of my parents were the first born here in 1908 and 1916. So very, uh, a very quote Italian family. And I was born in actually East St. Louis, Illinois, in 1948. And basically lived in Illinois, around there and in St. Louis, Missouri, up until I went to Peace Corps. Other than I had a two year time away from St. Louis when I was living in Tacoma, Washington. I had been married at the time and my husband then was in the Army. So I came out to Washington state and I was in nursing school at the time. And so I actually finished my diploma school nursing program, which is something they had back then that they don't have now, and was able to graduate at a hospital in Tacoma, Washington. And from that time on, I did nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what year was that that you finished your diploma for nursing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. 1970."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then so you went to high school in East St. Louis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 23.20981741004183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am actually third generation in this country, my parents. No actually, second generation. My parents were first generation. All of my grandparents were from Sicily and they came to this country around 1880s, 1890s. So both of my parents were the first born here in 1908 and 1916. So very, uh, a very quote Italian family. And I was born in actually East St. Louis, Illinois, in 1948. And basically lived in Illinois, around there and in St. Louis, Missouri, up until I went to Peace Corps. Other than I had a two year time away from St. Louis when I was living in Tacoma, Washington. I had been married at the time and my husband then was in the Army. So I came out to Washington state and I was in nursing school at the time. And so I actually finished my diploma school nursing program, which is something they had back then that they don't have now, and was able to graduate at a hospital in Tacoma, Washington. And from that time on, I did nursing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what year was that that you finished your diploma for nursing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. 1970."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then so you went to high school in East St. Louis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I went to high school in the suburbs. Well, sort of like the suburbs of St. Louis. It was a neighborhood called Bell Fountain Neighbors, and that school is still there actually. They changed the name of it. It was a, it is still a Catholic high school. It was called Rosary at the time. And because of the economy and lots of things, a number of the Catholic high schools have closed and they consolidated them to the actual school where I went to high school and they now call it Trinity High School so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about college? Where did you go to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.562206658947368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was more like personnel, that's where they had this health community aspect going. Human resource development actually was the official title. So that's where I got that. And during that time and right after that time and like right before, during and after that time, I decided to just go on my own. And I did a lot of work at different, like consulting work, at different hospitals and venues. Again, like with the American Heart Association, the American Lung Association, different human resource places and some hospitals where I presented programs and did wellness days, things like that. And I put together some of my own lectures and programs and went out and did that for a while, which it was. It was more like play than work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you got paid for it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got paid for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during this time, you now have a bachelor's degree. You have a family. You have children at this point and how old are they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.29134073216374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got paid for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during this time, you now have a bachelor's degree. You have a family. You have children at this point and how old are they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my kids were late, no, early teens. Yeah. Early teens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in college, they were in their teens?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.990378591293045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So during this time, you now have a bachelor's degree. You have a family. You have children at this point and how old are they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my kids were late, no, early teens. Yeah. Early teens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in college, they were in their teens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Late, you know, like eighth grade, yeah, right around there. Thirteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked. And so I'm going to, if I'm jumping ahead too fast, you tell me. But how did you find out about Peace Corps then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.87819843477005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my kids were late, no, early teens. Yeah. Early teens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in college, they were in their teens?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Late, you know, like eighth grade, yeah, right around there. Thirteen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked. And so I'm going to, if I'm jumping ahead too fast, you tell me. But how did you find out about Peace Corps then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I always had, it felt like there was in my heart, something to do in addition to, you know, some kind of helpful thing, in addition to just, quote, just being a nurse. I just felt like I had another calling, something else to do, and I did a lot of research for a while on what kinds of things that I could do. And I was just talking to somebody one day and this person said, you know, it sounds to me like something like Peace Corps would be something you should look into. And I remember thinking, oh gosh, I'd never even thought about that. I was just throwing this wide net out and looking at all kinds of things. And Peace Corps never was on my radar screen, so to speak, until she said that. And I said, yeah, yeah, I'll think about it. And so at sometime later, it wasn't right then, I decided to. I called them, because this was pre internet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this would have been in the early '90s."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.417493409260675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in the end, you know, she did go to the airport and wish me well, you know. And so that was, you know, I felt a little better about that, but she, it took her. It took her, well, I don't think she ever really let it go until after I came back. Yeah, it was just, it was hard. Yeah, it was really hard for her. And because, you know, her and I were very close. We were the only, I was her only sister. She was my only sister. And we did a lot together and we lived fairly close to each other. And so, you know, I mean. It was hard, it was hard. Because, you know, I didn't want to leave her, but I knew I had to do this for me as well. And I just kept saying, you know, the kids are grown up, they're gone basically. And, you know, I feel compelled. This is how I want to give back. And I said, I know it's going to sound corny, but I have been so blessed in my life with having been gifted so many things with my education and, you know, the work that I've been able to have, and I just feel like I want to give back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I'm not going to go in the military, but I can do something for this country. You know, that's what I can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And for other people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.1305482325118605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in the end, you know, she did go to the airport and wish me well, you know. And so that was, you know, I felt a little better about that, but she, it took her. It took her, well, I don't think she ever really let it go until after I came back. Yeah, it was just, it was hard. Yeah, it was really hard for her. And because, you know, her and I were very close. We were the only, I was her only sister. She was my only sister. And we did a lot together and we lived fairly close to each other. And so, you know, I mean. It was hard, it was hard. Because, you know, I didn't want to leave her, but I knew I had to do this for me as well. And I just kept saying, you know, the kids are grown up, they're gone basically. And, you know, I feel compelled. This is how I want to give back. And I said, I know it's going to sound corny, but I have been so blessed in my life with having been gifted so many things with my education and, you know, the work that I've been able to have, and I just feel like I want to give back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I'm not going to go in the military, but I can do something for this country. You know, that's what I can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And for other people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's skip ahead now to you got on that plane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.922831369457622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I'm not going to go in the military, but I can do something for this country. You know, that's what I can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And for other people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's skip ahead now to you got on that plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got on the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And went to Ecuador. Did you start your training in Ecuador or did you gather someplace in the United States and then go to Ecuador?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.692034854952913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And for other people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's skip ahead now to you got on that plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got on the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And went to Ecuador. Did you start your training in Ecuador or did you gather someplace in the United States and then go to Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went to Miami."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody in your training group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.435594283281015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Got on the plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And went to Ecuador. Did you start your training in Ecuador or did you gather someplace in the United States and then go to Ecuador?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went to Miami."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody in your training group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody in my training group went to Miami. We were there a couple of days. And you know, it was just, you know, just the basics. This is, you know, what's going to happen. And you know, here are the people that you're going to like, the health volunteers, we got together and we met each other. And, you know, it was the beginning there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were you then? How many gathered in Miami?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.179746028741993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody in my training group went to Miami. We were there a couple of days. And you know, it was just, you know, just the basics. This is, you know, what's going to happen. And you know, here are the people that you're going to like, the health volunteers, we got together and we met each other. And, you know, it was the beginning there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many were you then? How many gathered in Miami?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my omnibus had, let's see. There was probably, oh gosh, 40? At least that many. There was health. Uh, ganadería. What is ganadería in English? Like animal husbandry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And youth development. And they also I think they still had a water program there, so there was like those four programs. While we were there, they closed the water program. So there was just the youth development, the health, and the animal husbandry kind of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you all trained together, that was in 1993. What did you say, was it was June that you gathered?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.199717809713325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my omnibus had, let's see. There was probably, oh gosh, 40? At least that many. There was health. Uh, ganadería. What is ganadería in English? Like animal husbandry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And youth development. And they also I think they still had a water program there, so there was like those four programs. While we were there, they closed the water program. So there was just the youth development, the health, and the animal husbandry kind of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you all trained together, that was in 1993. What did you say, was it was June that you gathered?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we, yeah, it started in June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And so tell us about your training program. What were the components? And where were you living?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.216358972570788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't even know then. I don't remember. But, um, the thing that stood out to me the most was that after the wedding, the wedding lunch or dinner, because I was the North American, they wanted to give me the best soup, the best chunk of soup or whatever. So they served me this soup with a chicken head looking at me. I went, oh geez, I can't eat this. So I just, I kept pushing the chicken head around in the soup. And, you know, kind of playing with it. And there was a man sitting next to me who obviously was watching what I was doing. And again, this is so early that my language was practically zip. And so he just looked at me and I looked at him and I picked up my bowl and I had this like quizzical expression on my face, like, would you like this soup? And he right away shook his head yes. So I gave him my soup and he gave me his soup and then we were fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We traded soups. But I didn't watch him eat the soup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't watch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't even watch him eat the chicken head. It wasn't going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did eat it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6848433028564305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We traded soups. But I didn't watch him eat the soup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't watch."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't even watch him eat the chicken head. It wasn't going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did eat it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, probably it had a lot of nutrition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.205381447618256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't even watch him eat the chicken head. It wasn't going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he did eat it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, probably it had a lot of nutrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's good protein and stuff. And you know, at the time, I didn't know that, you know, you don't waste anything, not a thing. And, you know, but I just said, well, OK, you can, I can do this. I kept saying to myself, I can do this, I can do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memorable occasions about that wedding party, for example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.672646052909173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, probably it had a lot of nutrition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it's good protein and stuff. And you know, at the time, I didn't know that, you know, you don't waste anything, not a thing. And, you know, but I just said, well, OK, you can, I can do this. I kept saying to myself, I can do this, I can do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other memorable occasions about that wedding party, for example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only other thing that I remember is so traditionally in Ecuador, a wedding is a 24 hour event or more. Which I wasn't aware of. And even if they could have told me, I probably wouldn't have understood. So we go there and, you know, it's, I don't know, it's late, it's really late. And I'm like going, when are we going home? Well, there was no going home. And my quote parents, you know, realized that this was my first time out and I didn't, I was not up for it. So they found me a place. There was, we were somewhere near a clinic of some kind. And so they said, oh, we'll find you a place to lay down so you can just rest. So we went into this clinic and they put me on an examination table so I could sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the meantime, they were dancing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.768698830752065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only other thing that I remember is so traditionally in Ecuador, a wedding is a 24 hour event or more. Which I wasn't aware of. And even if they could have told me, I probably wouldn't have understood. So we go there and, you know, it's, I don't know, it's late, it's really late. And I'm like going, when are we going home? Well, there was no going home. And my quote parents, you know, realized that this was my first time out and I didn't, I was not up for it. So they found me a place. There was, we were somewhere near a clinic of some kind. And so they said, oh, we'll find you a place to lay down so you can just rest. So we went into this clinic and they put me on an examination table so I could sleep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the meantime, they were dancing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the meantime, they were dancing. And you know, they pass the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aguardiente?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The aguardiente. And it's one cup and everybody drinks out of the same cup. They just keep pouring it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was the cup?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.409665367502294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the meantime, they were dancing. And you know, they pass the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Aguardiente?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The aguardiente. And it's one cup and everybody drinks out of the same cup. They just keep pouring it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big was the cup?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The cups are like, you know, like little kid sized cups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like shot glasses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6785992191386345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The cups are like, you know, like little kid sized cups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like shot glasses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're a little bigger than that, but not like glass size, you know, maybe like eight ounce cups, like a Dixie cup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, you know, I just said, oh yeah, gracias, gracias. I've got to go somewhere to lay down. It wasn't exactly comfortable, but it was a little quieter. And, you know, I could turn the light out and just kind of rest. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your night."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.4206657990429274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're a little bigger than that, but not like glass size, you know, maybe like eight ounce cups, like a Dixie cup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So, you know, I just said, oh yeah, gracias, gracias. I've got to go somewhere to lay down. It wasn't exactly comfortable, but it was a little quieter. And, you know, I could turn the light out and just kind of rest. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was your night."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the next day, where they still partying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.572929765490984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the next day they were, you know, they were dragging a little bit. But, you know, in the morning, then you start over with the leftovers from the night before and you have a big breakfast and then you go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was that was my introduction to the Ecuadorian wedding culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And fiestas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fiestas. Oh yeah, lots of those later. And those are serendipitous. Could happen any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they could go on for a long time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.303255294989982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was that was my introduction to the Ecuadorian wedding culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And fiestas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fiestas. Oh yeah, lots of those later. And those are serendipitous. Could happen any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they could go on for a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did. And they don't let you sit down a minute. You gotta dance and the dancing and the drinking thing, which I, you know, it was hard. You know, I was already in my forties. So I, you know, it was like, I'm not, you know, I'm not a young spring chicken here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back a little bit more to the training part. How many hours a day did you spend learning Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.892505883322202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And fiestas. Oh yeah, lots of those later. And those are serendipitous. Could happen any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And they could go on for a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did. And they don't let you sit down a minute. You gotta dance and the dancing and the drinking thing, which I, you know, it was hard. You know, I was already in my forties. So I, you know, it was like, I'm not, you know, I'm not a young spring chicken here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back a little bit more to the training part. How many hours a day did you spend learning Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was half of the day. So for, you know, we had like two classes a day, so I would say four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you have other components of training, any kind of physical exercise or hiking or anything like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.547228759246891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they did. And they don't let you sit down a minute. You gotta dance and the dancing and the drinking thing, which I, you know, it was hard. You know, I was already in my forties. So I, you know, it was like, I'm not, you know, I'm not a young spring chicken here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's go back a little bit more to the training part. How many hours a day did you spend learning Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was half of the day. So for, you know, we had like two classes a day, so I would say four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you have other components of training, any kind of physical exercise or hiking or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, no. Not anything formal. You know, because we were at somewhat of an altitude. So there was a lot of people who weren't used to altitude. It wasn't that bad. But you know, and we were walking back and forth to where we were staying in and the training center, so there wasn't anything formal for exercise. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the people who, the other trainees who are in the health program, for example? How many were you in the health program and did you enjoy their company? Did you make friends or were you all sort of operating independently or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.052476399163211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was half of the day. So for, you know, we had like two classes a day, so I would say four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did you have other components of training, any kind of physical exercise or hiking or anything like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, no. Not anything formal. You know, because we were at somewhat of an altitude. So there was a lot of people who weren't used to altitude. It wasn't that bad. But you know, and we were walking back and forth to where we were staying in and the training center, so there wasn't anything formal for exercise. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about the people who, the other trainees who are in the health program, for example? How many were you in the health program and did you enjoy their company? Did you make friends or were you all sort of operating independently or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was 12 of us and there were actually two couples. So before I went to Peace Corps, you know, because I was already in my forties, I thought, oh gosh, I'm going to be like the old lady in the group, but I wasn't. There was one person older than me. Two people older than me. And the other, there was three other ones who were somewhat my contemporaries, you know, we were a little bit, you know, five, 10 years, at least five years younger. So I was surprised that there was that many of us who were older. And one, two, three, four of us were already are RNs. So that, you know, we bonded pretty almost instantly, instantaneously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We meaning the 12 of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.237625184152113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was 12 of us and there were actually two couples. So before I went to Peace Corps, you know, because I was already in my forties, I thought, oh gosh, I'm going to be like the old lady in the group, but I wasn't. There was one person older than me. Two people older than me. And the other, there was three other ones who were somewhat my contemporaries, you know, we were a little bit, you know, five, 10 years, at least five years younger. So I was surprised that there was that many of us who were older. And one, two, three, four of us were already are RNs. So that, you know, we bonded pretty almost instantly, instantaneously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We meaning the 12 of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The 12 of us, but especially the nurses, the RNs. You know, RNs can I guess be maybe a little snobby at times, I don't know. I never felt like I was snobby, but maybe. You know, like I said, I had to learn how to, you know, be a health care worker. Not so much an RN, which was fine. So, you know, we did really well, and a couple of the people in our group had already, were Spanish speakers, so that helped too. They were able to, you know, we were able to use them as kind of resource, like, how would you say this kind of medical thing in Spanish, that kind of thing and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, that was nice. Yeah, that was really nice. I enjoyed that and um. I mean, I can fast forward because this, we're talking about my friends from that group. So we all stayed in pretty close contact. Well, we tried to visit each other when we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't we do this part now, the what it was like to be in country in your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's something else you wanted to tell about training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9306946490579024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The 12 of us, but especially the nurses, the RNs. You know, RNs can I guess be maybe a little snobby at times, I don't know. I never felt like I was snobby, but maybe. You know, like I said, I had to learn how to, you know, be a health care worker. Not so much an RN, which was fine. So, you know, we did really well, and a couple of the people in our group had already, were Spanish speakers, so that helped too. They were able to, you know, we were able to use them as kind of resource, like, how would you say this kind of medical thing in Spanish, that kind of thing and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, that was nice. Yeah, that was really nice. I enjoyed that and um. I mean, I can fast forward because this, we're talking about my friends from that group. So we all stayed in pretty close contact. Well, we tried to visit each other when we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't we do this part now, the what it was like to be in country in your assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's something else you wanted to tell about training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, if it comes up, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's explain. We'll come back to your after Peace Corps years and the bonds that you created that still affect your life. But tell us now how you learned about your assignment and what was your assignment, et cetera."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.700771832286558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unless there's something else you wanted to tell about training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, if it comes up, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's explain. We'll come back to your after Peace Corps years and the bonds that you created that still affect your life. But tell us now how you learned about your assignment and what was your assignment, et cetera."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was three months, after training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.556413146985065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, if it comes up, if I remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's explain. We'll come back to your after Peace Corps years and the bonds that you created that still affect your life. But tell us now how you learned about your assignment and what was your assignment, et cetera."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was three months, after training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's kind of like the Yemen experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Sounds like a good story."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.518452676070414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tomas, his name was Tomas. So Tomas and I took off and went back to Guayaquil. He said, I'm going to find you a place to live. OK. I was still, you know, I was still going to give it my best."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tomas and I went all over the place for like an entire day. And even with his, he's the Ecuadorian and explained everything and said, you know, this is why we're here. You know, this is who we're going to work for and blah blah blah. And they just go, oh no, we don't really, you know, we just don't have a place, whatever. Well, actually, it wasn't Guayaquil. We had gone to Guayaquil, but that was where I had interviewed with that woman, she wanted me to talk to people. The actual little town, which is right outside of Guayaquil, is called Jipijapa. It's a cute little name, isn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spelled with J. So it's like Jippy Japo. We, you know, we were always making kind of jokes about Jippy Japo. So we were in Jipijapa, and, you know, we ended up sitting, at the end of the day, we were sitting on a park bench. And he said, I don't, I don't think you're supposed to be here. He said, no, we're going to go back and we're going to tell him, no. You're not, you're not coming here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's think about it. Or do you have any idea of why there was no housing for you? Do you think the landlords were afraid to have a North American live in their housing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.353836306744904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tomas and I went all over the place for like an entire day. And even with his, he's the Ecuadorian and explained everything and said, you know, this is why we're here. You know, this is who we're going to work for and blah blah blah. And they just go, oh no, we don't really, you know, we just don't have a place, whatever. Well, actually, it wasn't Guayaquil. We had gone to Guayaquil, but that was where I had interviewed with that woman, she wanted me to talk to people. The actual little town, which is right outside of Guayaquil, is called Jipijapa. It's a cute little name, isn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spelled with J. So it's like Jippy Japo. We, you know, we were always making kind of jokes about Jippy Japo. So we were in Jipijapa, and, you know, we ended up sitting, at the end of the day, we were sitting on a park bench. And he said, I don't, I don't think you're supposed to be here. He said, no, we're going to go back and we're going to tell him, no. You're not, you're not coming here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's think about it. Or do you have any idea of why there was no housing for you? Do you think the landlords were afraid to have a North American live in their housing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean, sure, it could have been. I mean, as a woman, I don't know that I would pose much of a threat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but be a target yourself and cause trouble for them. You don't know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.313378156475189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I mean, sure, it could have been. I mean, as a woman, I don't know that I would pose much of a threat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but be a target yourself and cause trouble for them. You don't know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I didn't really know the culture. So the culture in the coast is different than the culture in the mountain area. So I didn't have a good feel of the coastal climate, so to speak. I do know that one of my buddies from my training group, one of the other nurses, she ended up. I think she was near Guayaquil also. And so then later, I heard about the difference in the culture between the coast and the mountain area. So yeah, it was a lot. It was, you know, the coast area is a lot faster and, you know, more open. And you know, it's a hotter, hotter climate, where in the mountains, you know, it's more subdued. You know, you're in more heavy clothing. That's part of it anyway. But yeah, it could have been. Maybe they just didn't want a North American in their home because they would, you know, for the same reason the guy came up behind me and slit the watch off my wrist. You know, maybe I had things that somebody might want to break into their house and get. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tomas took you back up the mountain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you to go from Guayaquil to Quito and then Tumbaco?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.237086840527986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, because I didn't really know the culture. So the culture in the coast is different than the culture in the mountain area. So I didn't have a good feel of the coastal climate, so to speak. I do know that one of my buddies from my training group, one of the other nurses, she ended up. I think she was near Guayaquil also. And so then later, I heard about the difference in the culture between the coast and the mountain area. So yeah, it was a lot. It was, you know, the coast area is a lot faster and, you know, more open. And you know, it's a hotter, hotter climate, where in the mountains, you know, it's more subdued. You know, you're in more heavy clothing. That's part of it anyway. But yeah, it could have been. Maybe they just didn't want a North American in their home because they would, you know, for the same reason the guy came up behind me and slit the watch off my wrist. You know, maybe I had things that somebody might want to break into their house and get. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tomas took you back up the mountain."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you to go from Guayaquil to Quito and then Tumbaco?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's a long ride. It's a long ride on the bus, it's 12 hours or so. It's a long ride. Yeah, and they have these busses that they call them lujo busses, and they're supposed to be the best bus because they're nice. They're like a big, nice Greyhound bus. But they were to me, they felt like a boat. And when they're going around these curves and stuff, it was like being on the ocean and with the waves. And I was always like going, I think I'm going to not make it. I am. It was crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tomas takes you back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.07047758089875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that's a long ride. It's a long ride on the bus, it's 12 hours or so. It's a long ride. Yeah, and they have these busses that they call them lujo busses, and they're supposed to be the best bus because they're nice. They're like a big, nice Greyhound bus. But they were to me, they felt like a boat. And when they're going around these curves and stuff, it was like being on the ocean and with the waves. And I was always like going, I think I'm going to not make it. I am. It was crazy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Tomas takes you back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Tomas takes me back and he said, I'm telling him you're not going to Guayaquil, you're not going to Jipijapa, it's a done deal, so don't worry about it. I said, thank you, Tomas. Because I just, you know, there is a part of me generally that I, you know, I know when things are right and they're not right for me and it just didn't seem. Like the thing with Yemen. I just knew that wasn't right. That was not where I was supposed to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the program director said, you know, OK, I have another place, but I'm going to go with you. So him and I went and we went to a place called Juan Montalvo. And it was a teeny tiny little town at the end of a mountain road actually not too far from Colombia. About a 45 minute bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the largest city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.633863978776389, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Tomas takes me back and he said, I'm telling him you're not going to Guayaquil, you're not going to Jipijapa, it's a done deal, so don't worry about it. I said, thank you, Tomas. Because I just, you know, there is a part of me generally that I, you know, I know when things are right and they're not right for me and it just didn't seem. Like the thing with Yemen. I just knew that wasn't right. That was not where I was supposed to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the program director said, you know, OK, I have another place, but I'm going to go with you. So him and I went and we went to a place called Juan Montalvo. And it was a teeny tiny little town at the end of a mountain road actually not too far from Colombia. About a 45 minute bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the largest city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The largest city was called Mira. And we were only about, from there, about a half an hour to Otavalo. So it was, yeah. So I went there and, again, the housing was an issue. There was one person in this little tiny town that had a room. And so that's where I stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had your village, Juan Montalbo?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.148737754195987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the program director said, you know, OK, I have another place, but I'm going to go with you. So him and I went and we went to a place called Juan Montalvo. And it was a teeny tiny little town at the end of a mountain road actually not too far from Colombia. About a 45 minute bus ride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the largest city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The largest city was called Mira. And we were only about, from there, about a half an hour to Otavalo. So it was, yeah. So I went there and, again, the housing was an issue. There was one person in this little tiny town that had a room. And so that's where I stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had your village, Juan Montalbo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo ever had a Peace Corps volunteer before? Never?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.72081972688443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The largest city was called Mira. And we were only about, from there, about a half an hour to Otavalo. So it was, yeah. So I went there and, again, the housing was an issue. There was one person in this little tiny town that had a room. And so that's where I stayed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had your village, Juan Montalbo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo ever had a Peace Corps volunteer before? Never?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long had Peace Corps been in Ecuador by that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.356466363204921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo ever had a Peace Corps volunteer before? Never?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long had Peace Corps been in Ecuador by that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good question. I'm not even sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Colombia from '63 to '65, there was Peace Corps already in Ecuador. So I think that Ecuador must have had Peace Corps from about 1962, is what I'm guessing. '61, the first volunteers went to Colombia and I think it probably in '62, it began. So if you were there in '93?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0627404035610235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long had Peace Corps been in Ecuador by that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good question. I'm not even sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Colombia from '63 to '65, there was Peace Corps already in Ecuador. So I think that Ecuador must have had Peace Corps from about 1962, is what I'm guessing. '61, the first volunteers went to Colombia and I think it probably in '62, it began. So if you were there in '93?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, well, they probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More than 30 years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.847489337290026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good question. I'm not even sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Colombia from '63 to '65, there was Peace Corps already in Ecuador. So I think that Ecuador must have had Peace Corps from about 1962, is what I'm guessing. '61, the first volunteers went to Colombia and I think it probably in '62, it began. So if you were there in '93?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, well, they probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More than 30 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably, maybe some of them had heard about Peace Corps, but there had never been a volunteer in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's tell us about that town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.6083214858778065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they, well, they probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More than 30 years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably, maybe some of them had heard about Peace Corps, but there had never been a volunteer in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's tell us about that town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a town of about 80 families. It was literally at the end of the road. And there was a very small health clinic, you could say. It really wasn't a clinic. It was just a, you know, they call them puestos, just this little like little place where the person who ran it was the equivalent of like an LPN. And that's what her main job was, she did have a. They were farmers, but she didn't do the farming. She lived with her brother and he did the farming. And so we went there and, you know, it seemed OK. She was a little wary, though, because she had no experience with North Americans, but she was willing. You know, she had a good heart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was her name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.719233862658171, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mercedes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mercedes, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's who I ended up living with, in her house. So we worked together and I had a room in her house and, you know, we were, her and I were 24/7. She was very patient with me most of the time because again I was struggling with the language. And so for the first couple months, at least, no, maybe a little longer than that, I didn't walk out of the door without my dictionary. And whenever we went anywhere, people would ask her, you know, who's this and what are you doing? Why is she, you know, why is she following behind you everywhere you go? And she would, you know, she would explain. But as we as I studied and listened and learned a little bit more, there came a day when I really knew what they were saying. Way more than what I had started out with anyway, I don't know if I could tell you word for word, but you know, you get the gist. So whoever this person was said, started asking her questions about me. And all of a sudden I thought, well, I can answer that question. And so I said, well, ask me and they both look at me like what? So that was the day she quit having to talk for me, but she was very patient. She was really patient."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many months into it was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it was probably six months, yeah, before I really felt really comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you could open your mouth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.060782546491568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say it was probably six months, yeah, before I really felt really comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you could open your mouth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I could, yeah. Yeah. And I studied every day and I listened and you know, we watched TV and, you know, I worked really hard at, you know, most of the time when you learn a language, you learn, you understand more than that. It's easier to understand what people are saying than for you to say what you want to say, you know, so. And what I learned was one native language. We have, in this, probably in a lot of other countries too, but we have a lot of ways of saying things that are not directly translatable. And I had to stop thinking in those little colloquialisms, as you would say, and I would. So I had this slight delay of answering people because I had to first understand what they were saying, and then I would think about what I wanted to say. And then I go, no, there's no direct translation for that. And then I had to think about how I'm going to say that. So, you know, I kept thinking, they're going to think I'm really stupid, you know. But it's like, well, you know, I'm learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that sounds like a kind of a watershed event when you were able to speak for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you demonstrated how much you were comprehending and then you were able to respond and then think out loud, so to speak."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.845313940546187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I could, yeah. Yeah. And I studied every day and I listened and you know, we watched TV and, you know, I worked really hard at, you know, most of the time when you learn a language, you learn, you understand more than that. It's easier to understand what people are saying than for you to say what you want to say, you know, so. And what I learned was one native language. We have, in this, probably in a lot of other countries too, but we have a lot of ways of saying things that are not directly translatable. And I had to stop thinking in those little colloquialisms, as you would say, and I would. So I had this slight delay of answering people because I had to first understand what they were saying, and then I would think about what I wanted to say. And then I go, no, there's no direct translation for that. And then I had to think about how I'm going to say that. So, you know, I kept thinking, they're going to think I'm really stupid, you know. But it's like, well, you know, I'm learning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that sounds like a kind of a watershed event when you were able to speak for yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you demonstrated how much you were comprehending and then you were able to respond and then think out loud, so to speak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did that change your relationship with Mercedes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.717015489495763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you demonstrated how much you were comprehending and then you were able to respond and then think out loud, so to speak."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did that change your relationship with Mercedes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Yeah, I think she was a lot happier that, you know, she didn't have to do all the talking and that her and I could actually have a real conversation. You know, we had been working on it a lot because I was with her all the time. But I think it was really good for her when I was able to, you know, speak to people directly. Yeah. Yeah, made a big difference, I think, for both of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it. Now what were you actually doing with her every day? What were the kinds of things, programs that you worked on with her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.685572766106404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did that change your relationship with Mercedes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Yeah, I think she was a lot happier that, you know, she didn't have to do all the talking and that her and I could actually have a real conversation. You know, we had been working on it a lot because I was with her all the time. But I think it was really good for her when I was able to, you know, speak to people directly. Yeah. Yeah, made a big difference, I think, for both of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like it. Now what were you actually doing with her every day? What were the kinds of things, programs that you worked on with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went, every day we'd go to the to the little clinic. And so, you know, she would organize things. She had, twice a month, she had a day where pregnant women would come and we would do prenatal checks and stuff. So we did that. Any time anybody got sick or had an accident, they would come there and so she would take care of them. She, you know, she wanted me to help with, you know, cleaning. We did a lot of cleaning. We did a lot of sorting. We did a lot of trips to the, there was two schools in the town. Even though it was tiny as it was, there were two schools. There was a grade school and a kind of like a middle school. So we, you know, would talk to the teachers. It was interesting because once I started, you know, talking more with the kids, they wanted to come and see me. And I had all these, you know, they give you all kinds of fun things to play with. And I had all kinds of paper and pencils. And, you know, so the kids were coming and I was doing little projects with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the puesto de salud?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.676331412342423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Which kind of reminds me of a really funny story when I first got there. So each town has a celebration of their, the blessed Virgin Mary, but each of them have a different name, and I think the one from Mira was called the Charity Virgin or something like that. And so once a year, they have the days when they have a lot of processions and prayers and, you know, honoring of that particular, of their particular version of the blessed mother. And I hadn't been there that long, but they, because I lived with them, you know? And she didn't want to leave me by myself. You know, she said, oh come on, you're going to go with us. And so the other, there was a couple who ran the grade school. They were teachers and they had a truck. So we took the statue of the Virgin and we drove around that day to all the different little towns, so people could be blessed and feel like they were contributing and all that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a priest involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The priest? They did have a priest, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he didn't go on this caravan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't. He didn't go with us. You know, I think we met him in different places, but he wasn't actually with us. And so it was like 6:00 or 5:00 at night and it was getting kind of dark. And they said, oh, well, you know, we're going to this one more place. And you know, as culturally, as I was trying to be culturally aware of everything, without even thinking, I just, because they were saying, OK, we're going to take the Virgin Mary over here. I was so tired, I just blurted out, no more virgin! Without even thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No más virgen."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.476952360916572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He didn't. He didn't go with us. You know, I think we met him in different places, but he wasn't actually with us. And so it was like 6:00 or 5:00 at night and it was getting kind of dark. And they said, oh, well, you know, we're going to this one more place. And you know, as culturally, as I was trying to be culturally aware of everything, without even thinking, I just, because they were saying, OK, we're going to take the Virgin Mary over here. I was so tired, I just blurted out, no more virgin! Without even thinking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No más virgen."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No más virgen. And they about fell out laughing. They reminded me from then on, no más virgen, no more virgin, no more virgin. It's like, I'm tired. I want to go. I want to go back to my room, please. You know, that was just like, that was like the thing I think I'll probably always be remembered about was yelling out, no more virgin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like you over time became, felt quite integrated into the community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 10.529947067685079, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No más virgen. And they about fell out laughing. They reminded me from then on, no más virgen, no more virgin, no more virgin. It's like, I'm tired. I want to go. I want to go back to my room, please. You know, that was just like, that was like the thing I think I'll probably always be remembered about was yelling out, no more virgin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like you over time became, felt quite integrated into the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. And how often did you get out to pick up mail or visit other Peace Corps volunteers or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9221634085389754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it sounds like you over time became, felt quite integrated into the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. And how often did you get out to pick up mail or visit other Peace Corps volunteers or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, once a month when, you know, when we were getting paid, we went to the bank in, um, I think it was in Ibarra, and the bank at the time was Banco de Fomento. And we always had to make, I always had to make sure that I had enough money. Well, first of all, to get out of my town, to go to Mira, to go to Ibarra, I had to. There was only one, there was one guy that lived in that town who worked for the electric company. He had a big truck. And so every morning he'd leave at 5:00 or 5:30 in the morning, and anybody who wanted to leave Juan Montalvo to go to Mira had to be in the truck by 5:30. So that was how you got out of there. And then from Mira, you could catch a bus to Ibarra where the bank was. But I had to make sure I always had enough money to do two trips because probably at least a fourth to a third of the time, I'll say a third of the time, the money wasn't there. So I have, you know, I'd have to come back on a different day. But we always made sure that the other volunteers who were sort of in that general area, we would meet and go and have lunch, and it was like the only time we heard or spoke English for an entire month. So that was like ahhhh. We had a breath of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have mobile phones?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.842177047578982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, once a month when, you know, when we were getting paid, we went to the bank in, um, I think it was in Ibarra, and the bank at the time was Banco de Fomento. And we always had to make, I always had to make sure that I had enough money. Well, first of all, to get out of my town, to go to Mira, to go to Ibarra, I had to. There was only one, there was one guy that lived in that town who worked for the electric company. He had a big truck. And so every morning he'd leave at 5:00 or 5:30 in the morning, and anybody who wanted to leave Juan Montalvo to go to Mira had to be in the truck by 5:30. So that was how you got out of there. And then from Mira, you could catch a bus to Ibarra where the bank was. But I had to make sure I always had enough money to do two trips because probably at least a fourth to a third of the time, I'll say a third of the time, the money wasn't there. So I have, you know, I'd have to come back on a different day. But we always made sure that the other volunteers who were sort of in that general area, we would meet and go and have lunch, and it was like the only time we heard or spoke English for an entire month. So that was like ahhhh. We had a breath of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have mobile phones?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was one phone in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A landline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attached to a wall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.269085608421091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There was one phone in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A landline?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attached to a wall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't tell me about that phone until about a year later. I didn't even know there was a phone in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had, who kept the phone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.743428453801212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attached to a wall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't tell me about that phone until about a year later. I didn't even know there was a phone in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had, who kept the phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a family that had a little store and they had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you and other volunteers know that each other was going to be in town on a certain day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.270476059779124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they didn't tell me about that phone until about a year later. I didn't even know there was a phone in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who had, who kept the phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a family that had a little store and they had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you and other volunteers know that each other was going to be in town on a certain day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the day that the money came to the bank, or supposedly. So we would meet at the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of you would meet."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.856084510865694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a family that had a little store and they had it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you and other volunteers know that each other was going to be in town on a certain day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the day that the money came to the bank, or supposedly. So we would meet at the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of you would meet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would try to meet at the same time and be there at the same time. And then, you know, we'd go to find a place to go eat and then go from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Wow. Well, we've learned quite a bit about your life in Juan Montalvo."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5067605676285485, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the day that the money came to the bank, or supposedly. So we would meet at the bank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of you would meet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would try to meet at the same time and be there at the same time. And then, you know, we'd go to find a place to go eat and then go from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Wow. Well, we've learned quite a bit about your life in Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo. OK. Now. Before we talk about the last phase, let's, in fact, let's move to kind of the last phase, the last few months. Were the things in particular that you remember about the last few months? And how did you prepare to leave?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.118622852920609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would try to meet at the same time and be there at the same time. And then, you know, we'd go to find a place to go eat and then go from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Wow. Well, we've learned quite a bit about your life in Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo. OK. Now. Before we talk about the last phase, let's, in fact, let's move to kind of the last phase, the last few months. Were the things in particular that you remember about the last few months? And how did you prepare to leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when my two years was up, so all my nurse buddies, we were, we were doing so many things that we all, we got together and we said, we're not leaving. We're going to ask to be extended and all of us asked to be extended. Not all us. One of us didn't stay so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So three RNs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.798469836578454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Juan Montalvo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Juan Montalvo. OK. Now. Before we talk about the last phase, let's, in fact, let's move to kind of the last phase, the last few months. Were the things in particular that you remember about the last few months? And how did you prepare to leave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when my two years was up, so all my nurse buddies, we were, we were doing so many things that we all, we got together and we said, we're not leaving. We're going to ask to be extended and all of us asked to be extended. Not all us. One of us didn't stay so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So three RNs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we did. But what had happened was, is that I had so many projects that I was doing by that time. I just said, well, and I got the people who I was working with to write letters and say we need her. We can't do without her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People in the community wrote letters."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.442744262864949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when my two years was up, so all my nurse buddies, we were, we were doing so many things that we all, we got together and we said, we're not leaving. We're going to ask to be extended and all of us asked to be extended. Not all us. One of us didn't stay so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So three RNs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we did. But what had happened was, is that I had so many projects that I was doing by that time. I just said, well, and I got the people who I was working with to write letters and say we need her. We can't do without her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People in the community wrote letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so yeah, they allowed me to stay. So I went home for six weeks and then I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps lets you go home, you said for six weeks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.15860473651661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we did. But what had happened was, is that I had so many projects that I was doing by that time. I just said, well, and I got the people who I was working with to write letters and say we need her. We can't do without her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People in the community wrote letters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so yeah, they allowed me to stay. So I went home for six weeks and then I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps lets you go home, you said for six weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went back. How was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.954005262796233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so yeah, they allowed me to stay. So I went home for six weeks and then I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps lets you go home, you said for six weeks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went back. How was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that was, it felt like again, I just at that time, I knew I wasn't done. I just knew it was, I knew I was supposed to stay longer. And in the meantime, I had an Ecuadorian boyfriend, so that helps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.393339180884703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you went back. How was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that was, it felt like again, I just at that time, I knew I wasn't done. I just knew it was, I knew I was supposed to stay longer. And in the meantime, I had an Ecuadorian boyfriend, so that helps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, so then the last, towards the end of my time and then the third year, I actually moved into an apartment in Mira because what was happening was I was working with Catholic Charities. I was working with some other international organization from Canada, and I just had a lot of projects that made it so that I had to have more ease of transportation. And the program director kept asking me to do extra stuff. So there was one incident where there was a Peace Corps volunteer in a small town in the Amazon region, and she was working in a school. And this was a rare occasion, but one of the kids in the school committed suicide, and they just had no clue how to deal with it. So he asked me, would you go there and talk to the volunteer and talk to the kids about, you know, this issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "End of life and suicide in particular?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.881487978760781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, that was, it felt like again, I just at that time, I knew I wasn't done. I just knew it was, I knew I was supposed to stay longer. And in the meantime, I had an Ecuadorian boyfriend, so that helps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he in the village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, so then the last, towards the end of my time and then the third year, I actually moved into an apartment in Mira because what was happening was I was working with Catholic Charities. I was working with some other international organization from Canada, and I just had a lot of projects that made it so that I had to have more ease of transportation. And the program director kept asking me to do extra stuff. So there was one incident where there was a Peace Corps volunteer in a small town in the Amazon region, and she was working in a school. And this was a rare occasion, but one of the kids in the school committed suicide, and they just had no clue how to deal with it. So he asked me, would you go there and talk to the volunteer and talk to the kids about, you know, this issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "End of life and suicide in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I ended up. Then he asked me one time to go to another town where there was a basically a serial rapist who was having his way with women. So I ended up going to that town and doing a project, you know, just talking to them about that issue and how to protect themselves. And, you know, not to let it, not to keep quiet about it. Because at that point, at that point, they were fuming, but they didn't. They didn't get, you know, they didn't get really much help from the police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The authorities, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.312764420845312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He, so then the last, towards the end of my time and then the third year, I actually moved into an apartment in Mira because what was happening was I was working with Catholic Charities. I was working with some other international organization from Canada, and I just had a lot of projects that made it so that I had to have more ease of transportation. And the program director kept asking me to do extra stuff. So there was one incident where there was a Peace Corps volunteer in a small town in the Amazon region, and she was working in a school. And this was a rare occasion, but one of the kids in the school committed suicide, and they just had no clue how to deal with it. So he asked me, would you go there and talk to the volunteer and talk to the kids about, you know, this issue."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "End of life and suicide in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I ended up. Then he asked me one time to go to another town where there was a basically a serial rapist who was having his way with women. So I ended up going to that town and doing a project, you know, just talking to them about that issue and how to protect themselves. And, you know, not to let it, not to keep quiet about it. Because at that point, at that point, they were fuming, but they didn't. They didn't get, you know, they didn't get really much help from the police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The authorities, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So things like that, you know. And they ended up asking me to go back to the Amazon region to work with a health care worker who was just needing some moral support. So I spent two weeks with her going around in the jungle to the different places that she worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A volunteer? This was a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.680849356494791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so I ended up. Then he asked me one time to go to another town where there was a basically a serial rapist who was having his way with women. So I ended up going to that town and doing a project, you know, just talking to them about that issue and how to protect themselves. And, you know, not to let it, not to keep quiet about it. Because at that point, at that point, they were fuming, but they didn't. They didn't get, you know, they didn't get really much help from the police."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The authorities, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So things like that, you know. And they ended up asking me to go back to the Amazon region to work with a health care worker who was just needing some moral support. So I spent two weeks with her going around in the jungle to the different places that she worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A volunteer? This was a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that person was an Ecuadorian. And that was interesting because a lot of the places that we went, they didn't speak Spanish. They spoke, I don't know, some other language. I don't know if it was Guarani or whatever they were speaking. So she was translating from Spanish into their language. It was really interesting. So, yeah, that's a whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you extended now. Did you ask to extend for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.089832618327545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So things like that, you know. And they ended up asking me to go back to the Amazon region to work with a health care worker who was just needing some moral support. So I spent two weeks with her going around in the jungle to the different places that she worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A volunteer? This was a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that person was an Ecuadorian. And that was interesting because a lot of the places that we went, they didn't speak Spanish. They spoke, I don't know, some other language. I don't know if it was Guarani or whatever they were speaking. So she was translating from Spanish into their language. It was really interesting. So, yeah, that's a whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you extended now. Did you ask to extend for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I extended for one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you extended for one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.544258464808383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that person was an Ecuadorian. And that was interesting because a lot of the places that we went, they didn't speak Spanish. They spoke, I don't know, some other language. I don't know if it was Guarani or whatever they were speaking. So she was translating from Spanish into their language. It was really interesting. So, yeah, that's a whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you extended now. Did you ask to extend for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I extended for one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you extended for one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I think that's all they were allowing at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But I thought you were there for four years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.938064960898204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I extended for one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you extended for one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And I think that's all they were allowing at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But I thought you were there for four years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, '93 through '97."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So '93, '94, '95."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6272406924669185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, '93 through '97."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. So '93, '94, '95."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was the end of one year and the beginning of another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just sounds longer than it actually was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.030267436074354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was the end of one year and the beginning of another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just sounds longer than it actually was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, and in the meantime, I was, you know, having a great time. You know, with my Ecuadorian boyfriend and he had three kids and those kids and I bonded like you wouldn't believe. And we had just a great time. Yeah. Yeah, that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in Mira?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4780749289715045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just sounds longer than it actually was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, and in the meantime, I was, you know, having a great time. You know, with my Ecuadorian boyfriend and he had three kids and those kids and I bonded like you wouldn't believe. And we had just a great time. Yeah. Yeah, that was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in Mira?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so by then I was in Mira."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did he do for a living?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.528487566631487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so by then I was in Mira."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did he do for a living?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, you know, he had an avocado orchard, so that's basically what he did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Farming."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Now it's getting close to come home, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.356157489668503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. Now it's getting close to come home, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So now it's getting close to come home and they asked me, you know, what do you, how can we continue to serve your community? And, you know, like what I did for a while is I kept a daily diary of everything I was doing. I just basically kept it on a calendar. I made my own calendar and then just wrote every time I was doing something and what I was doing and who, all the kind of, basically bullet points. I didn't write out a narrative. And when I finally handed it all in over the last, you know, six, eight months or whatever to my country director, he said, well, I think we need to continue some of this work that you're doing. And so long story short, they replaced me with three volunteers. Because I just was all over the place. Yeah, I didn't, you know, I just didn't sit around and think, oh gosh, I'm a short timer. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kept digging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what was the Ecuadorean department or agency that you were kind of assigned to, at least initially?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.143404308232719, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So what was the Ecuadorean department or agency that you were kind of assigned to, at least initially?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially, I was assigned to the municipio, the Municipio de Mira, which is the, you know, the kind of the county government or the city government for Mira, that's who I had to report to at the very beginning. And then he and the mayor had asked. That was the guy who started, the mayor of Mira asked to have a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And was that mayor then, did you work with him personally?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.603782564703021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially, I was assigned to the municipio, the Municipio de Mira, which is the, you know, the kind of the county government or the city government for Mira, that's who I had to report to at the very beginning. And then he and the mayor had asked. That was the guy who started, the mayor of Mira asked to have a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And was that mayor then, did you work with him personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You interacted with him and he was part of your, if you will, team?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.004202849670023, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. And was that mayor then, did you work with him personally?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You interacted with him and he was part of your, if you will, team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was a mayor. He only, he got voted out after about a year. But, you know, it didn't matter. I was already there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you remain in touch with him at all or once he was voted out, was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.449114277411136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You interacted with him and he was part of your, if you will, team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was a mayor. He only, he got voted out after about a year. But, you know, it didn't matter. I was already there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you remain in touch with him at all or once he was voted out, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once he was voted out, he kind of disappeared. I don't. I think it kind of, I think it hurt his feelings that they didn't vote him back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah, that's understandable. OK. So now you're about to come home and anything you want to recall or highlight about those last few weeks or months even?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.832349197123484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he was a mayor. He only, he got voted out after about a year. But, you know, it didn't matter. I was already there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you remain in touch with him at all or once he was voted out, was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once he was voted out, he kind of disappeared. I don't. I think it kind of, I think it hurt his feelings that they didn't vote him back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah, that's understandable. OK. So now you're about to come home and anything you want to recall or highlight about those last few weeks or months even?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Well, you know, people were, they didn't want me to leave. They just didn't want me to go. And you know, I just said, you know, I knew I had to stay and now I know I have to go. But you know, I had done a bunch of projects in my town and they wanted to make sure that they sent me off with a bang and they had a huge event for me. They lined, so to go into one Montalvo, this big, long road. They lined up every student in the town on one side. They had Ecuadorian flags on the other side. I paraded right through. It was really sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in Mira?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.258165774581649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once he was voted out, he kind of disappeared. I don't. I think it kind of, I think it hurt his feelings that they didn't vote him back in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah, that's understandable. OK. So now you're about to come home and anything you want to recall or highlight about those last few weeks or months even?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Well, you know, people were, they didn't want me to leave. They just didn't want me to go. And you know, I just said, you know, I knew I had to stay and now I know I have to go. But you know, I had done a bunch of projects in my town and they wanted to make sure that they sent me off with a bang and they had a huge event for me. They lined, so to go into one Montalvo, this big, long road. They lined up every student in the town on one side. They had Ecuadorian flags on the other side. I paraded right through. It was really sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in Mira?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was in Juan Montalvo. And in the meantime, I had done a project with middle school kids. And you know, they. Yeah, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What'd they do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6201841939796098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Well, you know, people were, they didn't want me to leave. They just didn't want me to go. And you know, I just said, you know, I knew I had to stay and now I know I have to go. But you know, I had done a bunch of projects in my town and they wanted to make sure that they sent me off with a bang and they had a huge event for me. They lined, so to go into one Montalvo, this big, long road. They lined up every student in the town on one side. They had Ecuadorian flags on the other side. I paraded right through. It was really sweet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in Mira?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, this was in Juan Montalvo. And in the meantime, I had done a project with middle school kids. And you know, they. Yeah, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What'd they do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, eventually I went back when I did training and because I had done this project with them, they decided that they wanted to keep going to school and every one of those kids finished high school. I went to their high school graduation two years later when I came back. And that school had a terrible rep that nobody got out of high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you in touch with any of those children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.965959113826624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what, I am. I'm in touch with the boyfriend's kids. Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Powerful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it really was. I just went, well, if I never do anything else in my life, these kids got some education. And it wasn't so much that I was teaching them, you know, the subjects, but what I felt like was so important was to give them the confidence. And somebody who could believe in them to be able to do it because they weren't getting that from their teachers. No. They were just supposed to, you know, be little robots and repeat after me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Memorize everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's how they had to learn. And I kind of forced them to think on their own when we did this project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.13081372077361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's how they had to learn. And I kind of forced them to think on their own when we did this project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The project was, um, so one of the things that we had to do is health volunteers was to do a health fair. And so the idea was to invite other volunteers to your site and then, you know, everybody got a theme and then you went to their school or wherever it was. And then you did this like little rotation thing and people came in and out of your classroom and then you taught them whatever your theme was. Well, that wasn't going to work in my town because there was no place for people to stay. And so I just said, well, why can't we have a health fair and the kids do it? So I proposed it to my program director and I said, this is what I want to do. And I know nobody has ever done this, but I want to. I want to try. Because there's nowhere for 12 or 10 or one other person. They could probably stay with me in my room, but that's about it, you know? And so I said, I need some supplies and this is why I need it. And this is what I want to do. And I can tell you that I think I can get some of the parents to go along. Because I had to have the parents sign a form saying that these kids could stay after school because most of the kids had to go out and work in the field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I actually got 12 kids with parents who said, yeah, I'll let you do it. And it was a rousing success. The kids had so much fun and the parents got into it. They enjoyed it, and the kids were so pumped up about it that we ended up taking our health fair to another town. They wanted to do it again. So we took it to another town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did they do for the health fair? What did, were there booths or posters?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.038153252090001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Each kid got to draw something and put something up, and they each had a theme and they had to do their own. I said, I'm not doing the drawing, you're doing it. And I brought them some of the stuff that I had done. And I said, well, here's examples if you want to do the same thing, but you have to draw it, you have to put it together. I'm not doing it. And you know, they got creative and they learned what they wanted, how they wanted to say it. And once a week when we got together, you know, in the first couple of weeks, they would all sit there like, you know, kind of watching me, like still, like this. And I kept saying, OK, you have to talk. And you don't have to say doctora, because they all call me doctor. But I kept telling them, I'm not a doctor. And I said, you know, please speak up. Well, that was the good thing to say, and not the good thing to say, because once they knew that I really meant it, I couldn't get them to shut up. I kept saying, hey, stop, I've got to get a word in edgewise here.\n\nBut we had a great time. And you know, they asked questions and we talked about the different, you know, like basic health. We talked about immunizations, we talked about nutrition, you know, all the things that we would have talked about in a health fair anyway. We talked about recipes, you know, gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they then did posters or messages about these things, nutrition or basic washing your hands or brushing your teeth or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we also had games, you know. I'm pretty sure we had games because I remember one time drawing this game for little kids. Like it was supposed to be a fishing pond and we had holes and they would fish for something, and it had a card with a basic health message on it. You know, just, yeah, stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Games, learning games."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.820170280100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we also had games, you know. I'm pretty sure we had games because I remember one time drawing this game for little kids. Like it was supposed to be a fishing pond and we had holes and they would fish for something, and it had a card with a basic health message on it. You know, just, yeah, stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Games, learning games."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning games, right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. It sounds like a great program."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.689078089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we also had games, you know. I'm pretty sure we had games because I remember one time drawing this game for little kids. Like it was supposed to be a fishing pond and we had holes and they would fish for something, and it had a card with a basic health message on it. You know, just, yeah, stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Games, learning games."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning games, right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. It sounds like a great program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all you needed was, you know, paper and pencil. And you know, you didn't need a lot of, you didn't need money, really not a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Oh my goodness. Wonderful stories. So let's take, let's, uh. So it's time you have to go home. In fact, they've even given you your despedida."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.65453121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Learning games, right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful, wonderful. It sounds like a great program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And all you needed was, you know, paper and pencil. And you know, you didn't need a lot of, you didn't need money, really not a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Oh my goodness. Wonderful stories. So let's take, let's, uh. So it's time you have to go home. In fact, they've even given you your despedida."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they gave me the despedida, which was just so heartfelt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Right. So you went home and then what happened? What did you do and I know you went back to help with training, so a little bit about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.329000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Illinois State University. And the only program, there was only two programs at the time that, you know, were maybe something I could have done. And one, they had a nursing program at Johns Hopkins, and I just didn't want to do that. I still wanted to do more community, other kind of community stuff. So anyway, Illinois State University had a program called Economic and Community Development. And so I went there. I said, is there a way that I can tailor this education a little bit using the framework of economic and community development in health care? So they said, well, you know, we'll work with you. So anyway, I got my master's degree at Illinois State University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you go back and work as a Peace Corps training staff in Ecuador before your master's or afterwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in between, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first year at Illinois State University was all academic, and then the second year was an internship and my internship was going to be in southern Illinois, part of the time at a farmworkers clinic and then part of the time at a business incubator. And I said I had the opportunity. I said to them, I have an opportunity to go back to Peace Corps and do training for them. Is that going to be a problem? And they basically said, we can work it out. So that's when I went back and did training. After the academic part was done, and I could go down to the, uh, and that was in Carbondale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So, uh, let's, we sort of need to bring closure to this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.8100000000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in between, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the first year at Illinois State University was all academic, and then the second year was an internship and my internship was going to be in southern Illinois, part of the time at a farmworkers clinic and then part of the time at a business incubator. And I said I had the opportunity. I said to them, I have an opportunity to go back to Peace Corps and do training for them. Is that going to be a problem? And they basically said, we can work it out. So that's when I went back and did training. After the academic part was done, and I could go down to the, uh, and that was in Carbondale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So, uh, let's, we sort of need to bring closure to this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This has been a wonderful series of stories and a wonderful, obviously you've had a very important, life changing experience in Peace Corps. Just spend a few minutes reflecting about how that Peace Corps experience has changed the rest of your life and how it's influenced some of the decisions you've made."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're so good. And, you know, I have. So my buddies that I hung out with in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfortunately, of the four of us, two have passed. And the other one, um, called me yesterday for my birthday, and she just kept saying, I love you so much. I am so happy that we met. I would have never met you without Peace Corps and look what we would have missed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, it doesn't get any better than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't. And it was Peace Corps and the Committee for a Museum of the Peace Corps Experience that has brought our lives together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfortunately, of the four of us, two have passed. And the other one, um, called me yesterday for my birthday, and she just kept saying, I love you so much. I am so happy that we met. I would have never met you without Peace Corps and look what we would have missed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Exactly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, it doesn't get any better than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't. And it was Peace Corps and the Committee for a Museum of the Peace Corps Experience that has brought our lives together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I feel the same way about you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way I feel about you, too. I really do. This has been an honor to have this time with you, to hear your stories, and to think, feel your stories through you and know that we have another whole phase."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, it doesn't get any better than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't. And it was Peace Corps and the Committee for a Museum of the Peace Corps Experience that has brought our lives together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I feel the same way about you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way I feel about you, too. I really do. This has been an honor to have this time with you, to hear your stories, and to think, feel your stories through you and know that we have another whole phase."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of Peace Corps in front of us as we work for the Committee for Museum of the Peace Corps Experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00043:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I feel the same way about you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the way I feel about you, too. I really do. This has been an honor to have this time with you, to hear your stories, and to think, feel your stories through you and know that we have another whole phase."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of Peace Corps in front of us as we work for the Committee for Museum of the Peace Corps Experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's an honor in itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.910105098510307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there are a few reasons I joined the Peace Corps. One was because I always said I would, and my dad said I wouldn't. And uh, another one was because I grew up volunteering and I always felt like I was more present in my life when I was giving back and volunteering. And then also, I worked in international development and I wanted to. I worked in international development policy and I wanted to actually work in international development on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your background? Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Austin, Texas, and I went to UT for undergrad and I went to D.C. I was at George Mason for my graduate program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In international relations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "International trade policy. And then I went and I worked for the organization Society for International Development, and I learned a lot about the different, different tracks of international development and policy and kind of how it was being shaped and influenced and what it was doing in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you decided that wasn't enough and you wanted to actually go live overseas. Why did your father not want you to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.011227887233675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Austin, Texas, and I went to UT for undergrad and I went to D.C. I was at George Mason for my graduate program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In international relations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "International trade policy. And then I went and I worked for the organization Society for International Development, and I learned a lot about the different, different tracks of international development and policy and kind of how it was being shaped and influenced and what it was doing in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you decided that wasn't enough and you wanted to actually go live overseas. Why did your father not want you to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he just didn't believe that I'd do it. I think it always sounded so far-fetched, and I was young when he said that. I remember talking to having a conversation with him in the driveway of our house and I said, I'm going to join the Peace Corps, and I think I was probably 12. And he said, no you're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how old were you when you finally joined?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.234697652481861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "International trade policy. And then I went and I worked for the organization Society for International Development, and I learned a lot about the different, different tracks of international development and policy and kind of how it was being shaped and influenced and what it was doing in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you decided that wasn't enough and you wanted to actually go live overseas. Why did your father not want you to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he just didn't believe that I'd do it. I think it always sounded so far-fetched, and I was young when he said that. I remember talking to having a conversation with him in the driveway of our house and I said, I'm going to join the Peace Corps, and I think I was probably 12. And he said, no you're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how old were you when you finally joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twenty-two. And he still didn't think you would do it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.594108502757623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he just didn't believe that I'd do it. I think it always sounded so far-fetched, and I was young when he said that. I remember talking to having a conversation with him in the driveway of our house and I said, I'm going to join the Peace Corps, and I think I was probably 12. And he said, no you're not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how old were you when you finally joined?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twenty-two. And he still didn't think you would do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he'd gotten the picture by then. I'd just studied abroad a lot. I traveled a lot. I think he kind of knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wore him down. And what did your friends think about all of this? I guess you were living in D.C. at the time, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.993453891952914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twenty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Twenty-two. And he still didn't think you would do it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he'd gotten the picture by then. I'd just studied abroad a lot. I traveled a lot. I think he kind of knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wore him down. And what did your friends think about all of this? I guess you were living in D.C. at the time, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was I was living in D.C. and, you know, I kind of grew up as a, I was always outdoors and we had horses and animals and I was always camping and hiking. And, you know, my grandparents had a farm. I was very engaged and kind of, you know, a lot of like physical outdoors stuff. And then I moved to D.C. and, you know, I kind of had to put on suits to go to work every day. And my friends in D.C., nobody had really seen that side of me and they said, you're going to do what? And they didn't, I think, think I could make it. But I was like, you know, I have this whole other part of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of the challenge, that you could make it, or going back to your roots of being outdoors?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.437170991058792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think he'd gotten the picture by then. I'd just studied abroad a lot. I traveled a lot. I think he kind of knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wore him down. And what did your friends think about all of this? I guess you were living in D.C. at the time, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was I was living in D.C. and, you know, I kind of grew up as a, I was always outdoors and we had horses and animals and I was always camping and hiking. And, you know, my grandparents had a farm. I was very engaged and kind of, you know, a lot of like physical outdoors stuff. And then I moved to D.C. and, you know, I kind of had to put on suits to go to work every day. And my friends in D.C., nobody had really seen that side of me and they said, you're going to do what? And they didn't, I think, think I could make it. But I was like, you know, I have this whole other part of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of the challenge, that you could make it, or going back to your roots of being outdoors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was certainly a challenge. You know, I didn't I don't know that I gave the challenges a whole lot of thought or, you know, and I think with Peace Corps, you don't really understand the challenges until you're there. I talked to a lot of people about their experiences before I left, and you don't really get it until you're there. The challenges that really come up are much less tangible or easy to explain in a conversation when you're sitting in America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so we'll get to some of those when we talk. So you decided you wanted to join the Peace Corps, you applied. How long did it take to get in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.930189990065324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I was I was living in D.C. and, you know, I kind of grew up as a, I was always outdoors and we had horses and animals and I was always camping and hiking. And, you know, my grandparents had a farm. I was very engaged and kind of, you know, a lot of like physical outdoors stuff. And then I moved to D.C. and, you know, I kind of had to put on suits to go to work every day. And my friends in D.C., nobody had really seen that side of me and they said, you're going to do what? And they didn't, I think, think I could make it. But I was like, you know, I have this whole other part of my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of the challenge, that you could make it, or going back to your roots of being outdoors?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was certainly a challenge. You know, I didn't I don't know that I gave the challenges a whole lot of thought or, you know, and I think with Peace Corps, you don't really understand the challenges until you're there. I talked to a lot of people about their experiences before I left, and you don't really get it until you're there. The challenges that really come up are much less tangible or easy to explain in a conversation when you're sitting in America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so we'll get to some of those when we talk. So you decided you wanted to join the Peace Corps, you applied. How long did it take to get in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think from when I applied to when I left, it was about a year. So I think in at the time, that was pretty quick. It was it seemed like it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting how the time frame of applying to selection was, it extended over time. Much longer by the time you came along."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.366877766739249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was certainly a challenge. You know, I didn't I don't know that I gave the challenges a whole lot of thought or, you know, and I think with Peace Corps, you don't really understand the challenges until you're there. I talked to a lot of people about their experiences before I left, and you don't really get it until you're there. The challenges that really come up are much less tangible or easy to explain in a conversation when you're sitting in America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so we'll get to some of those when we talk. So you decided you wanted to join the Peace Corps, you applied. How long did it take to get in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think from when I applied to when I left, it was about a year. So I think in at the time, that was pretty quick. It was it seemed like it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting how the time frame of applying to selection was, it extended over time. Much longer by the time you came along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, the first class they passed the bill and, like, two months later there were boots on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So what was the whole process like for you to get into Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.963197518599165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think from when I applied to when I left, it was about a year. So I think in at the time, that was pretty quick. It was it seemed like it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting how the time frame of applying to selection was, it extended over time. Much longer by the time you came along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, the first class they passed the bill and, like, two months later there were boots on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So what was the whole process like for you to get into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main thing I remember was the medical clearance took forever, and I think, you know, I'd kind of I wrote down everything that had ever been wrong with me, and I didn't really have that much wrong with me, but they made me like, go evaluate everything. I remember walking in to get blood drawn for a variety of tests they wanted to do, and the woman looking at my orders and looking at me and pulling about 15 vials out and said, girl, I'm going to suck you dry. I also remember going in for my interview and. I was living in D.C., so I went into the headquarters building and you need a driver's license to get in, and I realized I'd forgotten my driver's, and I'd driven there. And so then I was like, oh jeez, driving without a driver's license, I can't get into the building. And so the woman who was interviewing me came downstairs and conducted my interview in a supply closet on the first floor because that was the only space that was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was elegant."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.62577502066574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, the first class they passed the bill and, like, two months later there were boots on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So what was the whole process like for you to get into Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main thing I remember was the medical clearance took forever, and I think, you know, I'd kind of I wrote down everything that had ever been wrong with me, and I didn't really have that much wrong with me, but they made me like, go evaluate everything. I remember walking in to get blood drawn for a variety of tests they wanted to do, and the woman looking at my orders and looking at me and pulling about 15 vials out and said, girl, I'm going to suck you dry. I also remember going in for my interview and. I was living in D.C., so I went into the headquarters building and you need a driver's license to get in, and I realized I'd forgotten my driver's, and I'd driven there. And so then I was like, oh jeez, driving without a driver's license, I can't get into the building. And so the woman who was interviewing me came downstairs and conducted my interview in a supply closet on the first floor because that was the only space that was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was elegant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She was like, welcome to Peace Corps. I think that supply closet is now the, um, it's where Jodi works. It's the returned volunteer services or something. It's nice now. But when I was there, it was a broom closet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That should have told you something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.473083356295263, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The main thing I remember was the medical clearance took forever, and I think, you know, I'd kind of I wrote down everything that had ever been wrong with me, and I didn't really have that much wrong with me, but they made me like, go evaluate everything. I remember walking in to get blood drawn for a variety of tests they wanted to do, and the woman looking at my orders and looking at me and pulling about 15 vials out and said, girl, I'm going to suck you dry. I also remember going in for my interview and. I was living in D.C., so I went into the headquarters building and you need a driver's license to get in, and I realized I'd forgotten my driver's, and I'd driven there. And so then I was like, oh jeez, driving without a driver's license, I can't get into the building. And so the woman who was interviewing me came downstairs and conducted my interview in a supply closet on the first floor because that was the only space that was available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was elegant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She was like, welcome to Peace Corps. I think that supply closet is now the, um, it's where Jodi works. It's the returned volunteer services or something. It's nice now. But when I was there, it was a broom closet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That should have told you something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were interviewed and then you are offered."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.970092618105845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. She was like, welcome to Peace Corps. I think that supply closet is now the, um, it's where Jodi works. It's the returned volunteer services or something. It's nice now. But when I was there, it was a broom closet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That should have told you something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were interviewed and then you are offered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was initially offered a position working on water irrigation systems in West Africa, and I suspect, because it was around that time, that I was slated to go to Mali and that year Mali was pulled from the program. And so they said, well. I had applied as a business development volunteer and they said, well, we can wait and place you as a business development volunteer somewhere else in Africa, or we can send you as a health volunteer to Southeast Asia. And I had done some work for my graduate program in Southeast Asia, and I said, oh yeah, send me to send me to Southeast Asia. I'd love to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for health though, right? And you were a business major."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.522325131228717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were interviewed and then you are offered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was initially offered a position working on water irrigation systems in West Africa, and I suspect, because it was around that time, that I was slated to go to Mali and that year Mali was pulled from the program. And so they said, well. I had applied as a business development volunteer and they said, well, we can wait and place you as a business development volunteer somewhere else in Africa, or we can send you as a health volunteer to Southeast Asia. And I had done some work for my graduate program in Southeast Asia, and I said, oh yeah, send me to send me to Southeast Asia. I'd love to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for health though, right? And you were a business major."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. I think I took two semesters of nutrition in college, and I think that's what tipped my application that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the project you were actually involved in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.247027923587464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was initially offered a position working on water irrigation systems in West Africa, and I suspect, because it was around that time, that I was slated to go to Mali and that year Mali was pulled from the program. And so they said, well. I had applied as a business development volunteer and they said, well, we can wait and place you as a business development volunteer somewhere else in Africa, or we can send you as a health volunteer to Southeast Asia. And I had done some work for my graduate program in Southeast Asia, and I said, oh yeah, send me to send me to Southeast Asia. I'd love to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So for health though, right? And you were a business major."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. I think I took two semesters of nutrition in college, and I think that's what tipped my application that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the project you were actually involved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a health extension agent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what is a health extension agent?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.163364359541625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. I think I took two semesters of nutrition in college, and I think that's what tipped my application that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the project you were actually involved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a health extension agent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what is a health extension agent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think what we were supposed to, we were working with rural health centers in Cambodia. Cambodia has a network of health centers throughout the country, and we were working with them to try and bring health education into the surrounding villages. And so I didn't. A lot of my fellow volunteers in health sector, you know, sat at the health center every day and weighed babies and talked to people about nutrition and kind of did their service there. My health center was very small and very, very busy. And so I spent most of my time outside of the health center working with village, uh, village chiefs. Each village in Cambodia has two appointed village health volunteers, which was a neat system that can kind of keep track of births and deaths and any illness that's going through. And so I worked with them and kind of did a program of education on a series of health topics. And per Peace Corps, I also worked at the school and I worked in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to get to that later. So you were selected and they said Southeast Asia. And then how did Cambodia come up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.959293732824026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a health extension agent."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what is a health extension agent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think what we were supposed to, we were working with rural health centers in Cambodia. Cambodia has a network of health centers throughout the country, and we were working with them to try and bring health education into the surrounding villages. And so I didn't. A lot of my fellow volunteers in health sector, you know, sat at the health center every day and weighed babies and talked to people about nutrition and kind of did their service there. My health center was very small and very, very busy. And so I spent most of my time outside of the health center working with village, uh, village chiefs. Each village in Cambodia has two appointed village health volunteers, which was a neat system that can kind of keep track of births and deaths and any illness that's going through. And so I worked with them and kind of did a program of education on a series of health topics. And per Peace Corps, I also worked at the school and I worked in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to get to that later. So you were selected and they said Southeast Asia. And then how did Cambodia come up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew, I'd gone online and, you know, I knew which month I was going to leave. And so I kind of knew it was either going to be the Philippines or Cambodia. And I think I found out it was Cambodia, like a month and a half before I left. It was pretty near to, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of information before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about Cambodia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.843659703137806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think what we were supposed to, we were working with rural health centers in Cambodia. Cambodia has a network of health centers throughout the country, and we were working with them to try and bring health education into the surrounding villages. And so I didn't. A lot of my fellow volunteers in health sector, you know, sat at the health center every day and weighed babies and talked to people about nutrition and kind of did their service there. My health center was very small and very, very busy. And so I spent most of my time outside of the health center working with village, uh, village chiefs. Each village in Cambodia has two appointed village health volunteers, which was a neat system that can kind of keep track of births and deaths and any illness that's going through. And so I worked with them and kind of did a program of education on a series of health topics. And per Peace Corps, I also worked at the school and I worked in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to get to that later. So you were selected and they said Southeast Asia. And then how did Cambodia come up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew, I'd gone online and, you know, I knew which month I was going to leave. And so I kind of knew it was either going to be the Philippines or Cambodia. And I think I found out it was Cambodia, like a month and a half before I left. It was pretty near to, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of information before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I knew that it was close to Thailand, and I'd heard a lot about Thailand, and I knew almost nothing about Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was OK. Did you start researching about Cambodia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.826288559042005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew, I'd gone online and, you know, I knew which month I was going to leave. And so I kind of knew it was either going to be the Philippines or Cambodia. And I think I found out it was Cambodia, like a month and a half before I left. It was pretty near to, you know, I didn't have a whole lot of information before I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I knew that it was close to Thailand, and I'd heard a lot about Thailand, and I knew almost nothing about Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was OK. Did you start researching about Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I worked. I was at my job. Right before I left, I was planning this big conference and it was happening like a month before I left. So I really was like, great, going to Cambodia, you know, and I just did not have any time to think about it or research or yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you meet then with the other volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.806987287824448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I knew that it was close to Thailand, and I'd heard a lot about Thailand, and I knew almost nothing about Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was OK. Did you start researching about Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I worked. I was at my job. Right before I left, I was planning this big conference and it was happening like a month before I left. So I really was like, great, going to Cambodia, you know, and I just did not have any time to think about it or research or yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you meet then with the other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In D.C. So I'd actually packed up all my stuff and moved back to Texas for a month to stay with my parents. And then we got our staging orders and I figured I was going to go out to the West Coast. And they said, going back to D.C. I just left there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in a hotel? Did you stay in a hotel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.56331920869383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I worked. I was at my job. Right before I left, I was planning this big conference and it was happening like a month before I left. So I really was like, great, going to Cambodia, you know, and I just did not have any time to think about it or research or yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you meet then with the other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In D.C. So I'd actually packed up all my stuff and moved back to Texas for a month to stay with my parents. And then we got our staging orders and I figured I was going to go out to the West Coast. And they said, going back to D.C. I just left there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in a hotel? Did you stay in a hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I stayed a couple of nights with a friend, a couple of friends. And then I went to the, um, because my cat was going to stay in D.C. with my former roommate. And so I went and spent one night with my cat. And then we stayed at a hotel in Georgetown, the Hyatt, or I think it was the Hyatt in Georgetown. It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's pretty fancy for Peace Corps. And what happened in the staging? Anything of interest?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.2925768985487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In D.C. So I'd actually packed up all my stuff and moved back to Texas for a month to stay with my parents. And then we got our staging orders and I figured I was going to go out to the West Coast. And they said, going back to D.C. I just left there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed in a hotel? Did you stay in a hotel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I stayed a couple of nights with a friend, a couple of friends. And then I went to the, um, because my cat was going to stay in D.C. with my former roommate. And so I went and spent one night with my cat. And then we stayed at a hotel in Georgetown, the Hyatt, or I think it was the Hyatt in Georgetown. It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's pretty fancy for Peace Corps. And what happened in the staging? Anything of interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a really, really unfortunate timing for my staging. My dad was diagnosed with cancer the day that I left for Peace Corps, so I showed up to staging knowing that he was about to get that diagnosis. And I don't really remember much of staging. I actually didn't know if I was going to go. And I and, you know, we staged for a couple of days and I remember we were kind of doing like the, you know, you had your sheet, you had to find people that like only brought one bag and find people that spoke another language. And I was totally out of it and not, you know, not able to engage and the whole staging process kind of flew by me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.213974331720777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yeah, I stayed a couple of nights with a friend, a couple of friends. And then I went to the, um, because my cat was going to stay in D.C. with my former roommate. And so I went and spent one night with my cat. And then we stayed at a hotel in Georgetown, the Hyatt, or I think it was the Hyatt in Georgetown. It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's pretty fancy for Peace Corps. And what happened in the staging? Anything of interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a really, really unfortunate timing for my staging. My dad was diagnosed with cancer the day that I left for Peace Corps, so I showed up to staging knowing that he was about to get that diagnosis. And I don't really remember much of staging. I actually didn't know if I was going to go. And I and, you know, we staged for a couple of days and I remember we were kind of doing like the, you know, you had your sheet, you had to find people that like only brought one bag and find people that spoke another language. And I was totally out of it and not, you know, not able to engage and the whole staging process kind of flew by me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 60 of us. I think there was supposed to be 60. I think there were only 58. I think two people didn't show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just didn't show up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.34886036857864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had a really, really unfortunate timing for my staging. My dad was diagnosed with cancer the day that I left for Peace Corps, so I showed up to staging knowing that he was about to get that diagnosis. And I don't really remember much of staging. I actually didn't know if I was going to go. And I and, you know, we staged for a couple of days and I remember we were kind of doing like the, you know, you had your sheet, you had to find people that like only brought one bag and find people that spoke another language. And I was totally out of it and not, you know, not able to engage and the whole staging process kind of flew by me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 60 of us. I think there was supposed to be 60. I think there were only 58. I think two people didn't show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just didn't show up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what happened to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you did go overseas after that, so you got through staging."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.720955965087377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 60 of us. I think there was supposed to be 60. I think there were only 58. I think two people didn't show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just didn't show up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what happened to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you did go overseas after that, so you got through staging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all got on a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what where did you go from D.C.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.134395516763753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know what happened to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you did go overseas after that, so you got through staging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all got on a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what where did you go from D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to Bangkok and we spent the night in Bangkok, and I remember being kind of amused that nobody was really taking, you know, this big group of 58 people and they were like, here your plane tickets get to camp, you know, and I kind of thought somebody was going to come with us or, you know, but no they kind of we all kind of like elected one person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just went by yourself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.70488390751528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We all got on a plane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what where did you go from D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to Bangkok and we spent the night in Bangkok, and I remember being kind of amused that nobody was really taking, you know, this big group of 58 people and they were like, here your plane tickets get to camp, you know, and I kind of thought somebody was going to come with us or, you know, but no they kind of we all kind of like elected one person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just went by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And Rich Durham was our one guy that we said, you're going to show us through the airport. And he, you know, was of our cohort and just kind of guided us all through the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really interesting. So had the group for what you, you are not tuned in, but had the group formed as a group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.56098211946142, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew to Bangkok and we spent the night in Bangkok, and I remember being kind of amused that nobody was really taking, you know, this big group of 58 people and they were like, here your plane tickets get to camp, you know, and I kind of thought somebody was going to come with us or, you know, but no they kind of we all kind of like elected one person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just went by yourself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And Rich Durham was our one guy that we said, you're going to show us through the airport. And he, you know, was of our cohort and just kind of guided us all through the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's really interesting. So had the group for what you, you are not tuned in, but had the group formed as a group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think so. I remember sitting, you know, in a couple of airports and we all kind of in the waiting, you know, in the gates waiting for our planes and people were chatting and playing games and I was kind of like I was trying to sleep. But I remember people kind of were bonding at that point. And yeah, I was trying to get through, get through the trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you got to Bangkok and then what happened in Bangkok?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.28395254417037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just in that first couple of weeks, they taught us like how to say our name and how to say how old we were and like some common greetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this was in Phnom Penh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got dropped off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got dropped off. I was trying really hard to tell my host family that it was my birthday. I didn't know the word for birthday, but I knew how to say today and yesterday, and I knew how to say 22 and 23. And so I was trying to say today I'm 23, but yesterday I was 22. And it really it was not getting across and I realized later, I learned later that people in Cambodia don't celebrate birthdays. They all turn the next year on the new year, so they don't even celebrate individual birthdays. They kind of do now because it's a little more westernized, but they traditionally do not. And so not only was my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they celebrate birthdays at all because in lots of countries they don't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.982169493522633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got dropped off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got dropped off. I was trying really hard to tell my host family that it was my birthday. I didn't know the word for birthday, but I knew how to say today and yesterday, and I knew how to say 22 and 23. And so I was trying to say today I'm 23, but yesterday I was 22. And it really it was not getting across and I realized later, I learned later that people in Cambodia don't celebrate birthdays. They all turn the next year on the new year, so they don't even celebrate individual birthdays. They kind of do now because it's a little more westernized, but they traditionally do not. And so not only was my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they celebrate birthdays at all because in lots of countries they don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I mean, a little bit now, though sometimes people will get a cake for little kids. They will for like, you know, if you're under like three, you'll get a you'll get a you'll get a kind of a birthday party. But no, no. And I didn't like, my Khmer was not good enough to say what I was talking about, but also culturally, it wasn't going to translate regardless of, you know, how I said it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you then lived with this family for a couple of months and what was the training? I guess two questions, what was life living with this family and then what was the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.100002807344111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it doesn't read linearly in any way. It kind of like depends on whether it's a vowel or a consonant and kind of wrap around each other and they don't go in order. I know like if I see a word and I know what it says, I can figure out how the letters make that sound. But it's not an easy language to learn. So we learned everything phonetically and we learned a lot of like health, health based words to help us with our jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you think your training was good?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I thought my language training well, I think the technical training was not great because they were still trying to figure out the program. The language training, I thought, was excellent, but I also learned how to speak Khmer in southern Cambodia and then I got placed in northern Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's different accent or different words?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.55555867482679, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, I thought my language training well, I think the technical training was not great because they were still trying to figure out the program. The language training, I thought, was excellent, but I also learned how to speak Khmer in southern Cambodia and then I got placed in northern Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's different accent or different words?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's that different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.172842972029766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's different accent or different words?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's that different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.858714413366407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Both, but not so much where it's not really like a different dialect with accents. I mean, we would have I would have Peace Corps staff come up to visit my site and, you know, native speakers and I would be translating for them. So it was when I showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's that different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there were there were there were still 58 of us. We all made it through training. I think we were challenged a little bit because our Peace Corps country director said nobody ever no class ever makes it through training with all of their members. And so we all did. Of course, a couple of people dropped off like the next week. But at that point there was all of us were still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people dropped off as opposed to being deselected, for example."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.620793792629343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it's not a different dialect, but it's, the province I was in is kind of it's just a little bit different from the rest of the country and, you know, more serious the way than some of the other provinces."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So training was, what, two months? Two months and then what happened? How were you placed in other places? And I guess the question is how many of you were in training at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there were there were there were still 58 of us. We all made it through training. I think we were challenged a little bit because our Peace Corps country director said nobody ever no class ever makes it through training with all of their members. And so we all did. Of course, a couple of people dropped off like the next week. But at that point there was all of us were still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people dropped off as opposed to being deselected, for example."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, no, that was all. I'm not sure that anybody left non-voluntarily, but there were, yeah, there were a few. I think we lost, um, by the end, when we did close of service, I think there were only 45 of us. I think we lost almost a quarter of our group after, before the two years were up. Several right at the beginning and then a few kind of at the end for a variety of reasons, they just, you know, health or they were going back to grad school or family stuff. Different reasons towards the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Life. Ok, so where were you placed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.47011579336956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, no, that was all. I'm not sure that anybody left non-voluntarily, but there were, yeah, there were a few. I think we lost, um, by the end, when we did close of service, I think there were only 45 of us. I think we lost almost a quarter of our group after, before the two years were up. Several right at the beginning and then a few kind of at the end for a variety of reasons, they just, you know, health or they were going back to grad school or family stuff. Different reasons towards the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Life. Ok, so where were you placed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was placed in Siem Reap province. Siem Reap is the province where the Angkor Wat is, which is one of the, I don't think it's one of the seven wonders, but I think people call it like number eight. Maybe the seventh one. I don't know. It's this beautiful, yeah, beautiful temple complex. I was about 40 kilometers outside to the east. Siem Reap, everybody knows that province because that's where all the temples are, but it's actually one of the poorest provinces in the country. And so I lived in a pretty small village and it was pretty great because I was like a couple of hours by bike from the city so I could go in if I wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On bike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.07790643707729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was placed in Siem Reap province. Siem Reap is the province where the Angkor Wat is, which is one of the, I don't think it's one of the seven wonders, but I think people call it like number eight. Maybe the seventh one. I don't know. It's this beautiful, yeah, beautiful temple complex. I was about 40 kilometers outside to the east. Siem Reap, everybody knows that province because that's where all the temples are, but it's actually one of the poorest provinces in the country. And so I lived in a pretty small village and it was pretty great because I was like a couple of hours by bike from the city so I could go in if I wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On bike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's got a certain seedy charm to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the town you were in like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.64211826341921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, or hitchhiking. Hitchhiking is a little faster, but not much. But otherwise I was far enough removed from kind of the crazy tourist-ness of Siem Reap, so it was a nice mix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having been there, I was shocked at how seedy touristy it is. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's got a certain seedy charm to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the town you were in like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it's called Samrong and it was small. But we had a high school. It was kind of bigger than some of the villages around us. We had the health center and we had the high school in the high school was new. The high school had only been open like five years. And there were kind of like, how many villages did we, like our health center covered like nine villages and each of the villages had less than a thousand people. And I think total there were like 7,000 people in the kind of district that we covered, and I lived right in the middle of them. I lived right across the street from the health center with a family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you end up with that family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.305139440049818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps help you with any of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they don't come and your director didn't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.783488266722021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they don't come and your director didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3149869630244675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came out once, I think they kind of. Well, actually, I know this because I remember our country director saying one time I kind of forget that you're up there, Sally. And I was like, yeah, nobody's ever going to see me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they don't come and your director didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.905541070027186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My director came once. She actually came really early on, like, right when I first got there, she came and saw me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Peace Corps director?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out once, too. Um, but I just remember thinking everybody else got visited a lot, and I think they all, both the people came out to see me once and I kind of was like, I wasn't near any other volunteers. I think like they'd go and they'd visit a bunch of volunteers at a time, and I was kind of by myself. And so nobody came out to see me, which was, I mean, I didn't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't care?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.561712300030207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the guy in the health clinic, he didn't give you much direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He came out once, too. Um, but I just remember thinking everybody else got visited a lot, and I think they all, both the people came out to see me once and I kind of was like, I wasn't near any other volunteers. I think like they'd go and they'd visit a bunch of volunteers at a time, and I was kind of by myself. And so nobody came out to see me, which was, I mean, I didn't care."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't care?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I like it was I think I had expected in training to understand what I was supposed to be doing. And once I realized that I was not going to know from training what I was supposed to be doing, I kind of just figured it out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you figure out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.588159494708135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, my Peace Corps mantra that I repeated to myself throughout the day was I'm doing the best that I can because I really felt like. I really felt like I should have been better prepared or I wasn't doing good enough or I wasn't trying hard enough. But I didn't know how to do any better than I was doing. And so I think, yeah, I think I was figuring out that as fast as I could and the best ways that I could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that a good thing or should have gotten more training? I'm not saying you should have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think my biggest my biggest hurdle was that I just had no idea what to do. I think it would have been better to have had some sort of like preliminary assignments in like a concrete way where, you know, our directors were coming and saying, OK, you were supposed to go out and do this community survey. How that go? Or something. And I just I really just I had no idea what to do when I showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you depressed by that, anxious?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I was. Oh yeah, all of the above. Just really, really scared and stressed and felt like I wasn't. I mean, I felt really guilty a lot. I felt like I just wasn't trying hard enough that I wasn't doing enough. It was very, very, very stressful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you deal with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.837233944084115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I was. Oh yeah, all of the above. Just really, really scared and stressed and felt like I wasn't. I mean, I felt really guilty a lot. I felt like I just wasn't trying hard enough that I wasn't doing enough. It was very, very, very stressful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you deal with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Being social was always the best thing for me. If I went out and try to practice my Khmer and talk to people that always made me feel like I was. You know, I'd come from a job that I was really good at and I knew how to do, and I was productive and successful, and I came to this job where I had no idea what to do and I was not being productive. And so any time I felt like I was being productive, that was. And, you know, it turns out my most like kind of think productive aspect of my Peace Corps service was talking to people. And I taught English lessons to my host kids on the front porch. And, you know, any time I felt like I was being useful, it was what helped the most. And then kind of the unhealthy coping mechanism was me, like retreating into my room and just like kind of hiding. I did a lot of that. I read a lot. I read. I always read a lot, but with infinite amounts of time on my hands, I read like three books a week. And that was that was not that, because then any time I would like hide, that would make me feel even more guilty about not being productive. So I tried to, I tried to do that less and less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to other volunteers about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have similar experiences?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.152482160093461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Being social was always the best thing for me. If I went out and try to practice my Khmer and talk to people that always made me feel like I was. You know, I'd come from a job that I was really good at and I knew how to do, and I was productive and successful, and I came to this job where I had no idea what to do and I was not being productive. And so any time I felt like I was being productive, that was. And, you know, it turns out my most like kind of think productive aspect of my Peace Corps service was talking to people. And I taught English lessons to my host kids on the front porch. And, you know, any time I felt like I was being useful, it was what helped the most. And then kind of the unhealthy coping mechanism was me, like retreating into my room and just like kind of hiding. I did a lot of that. I read a lot. I read. I always read a lot, but with infinite amounts of time on my hands, I read like three books a week. And that was that was not that, because then any time I would like hide, that would make me feel even more guilty about not being productive. So I tried to, I tried to do that less and less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to other volunteers about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have similar experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.280535733437178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have similar experiences?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but not really, because it made me feel better because I wasn't the only one, but it also didn't solve the problem. But that was, I think, you know, and I think part of it, too, was that I couldn't speak the language very well, and I eventually got to a point where I was teaching health lessons in Khmer and, you know, and chatting with people. But especially at the beginning, you kind of when you don't speak a language very well, it's always an effort to talk. And so you just stop talking as much. You don't come home and say, hey, how was your day? Would you do? Tell me about it. Because it's hard and it's hard for me, but it's also hard for my family because I'm watching them not understand me and like them, kind of like struggling to. It's just. I remember my eight-year-old sister at one point. Because everybody was so nice to me about it and they'd like, try and understand what I was saying. And I remember my host sister at one point, just like after like me struggling to say something for like several minutes, like threw her hands up in the air, just like huh! And walked away. And I was like, yeah, I know. That's how everybody feels. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's hard for them and hard for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.533928592707975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that help, knowing that you weren't the only one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but not really, because it made me feel better because I wasn't the only one, but it also didn't solve the problem. But that was, I think, you know, and I think part of it, too, was that I couldn't speak the language very well, and I eventually got to a point where I was teaching health lessons in Khmer and, you know, and chatting with people. But especially at the beginning, you kind of when you don't speak a language very well, it's always an effort to talk. And so you just stop talking as much. You don't come home and say, hey, how was your day? Would you do? Tell me about it. Because it's hard and it's hard for me, but it's also hard for my family because I'm watching them not understand me and like them, kind of like struggling to. It's just. I remember my eight-year-old sister at one point. Because everybody was so nice to me about it and they'd like, try and understand what I was saying. And I remember my host sister at one point, just like after like me struggling to say something for like several minutes, like threw her hands up in the air, just like huh! And walked away. And I was like, yeah, I know. That's how everybody feels. I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's hard for them and hard for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That in itself as a lesson, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.473985916923425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That in itself as a lesson, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, it was not just me. It was like, I'm sure I put a lot of stress on this family too. Well, especially at first. Like, I was super concerned about my dad back home. I didn't know it was like what was going to happen, and I was really stressed out about being here and not being able to speak to anybody. And I know that they, I mean, I know they worried about me. You know, I was the first volunteer in my village and they didn't know what I would eat. They didn't know what I liked. They, you know, they were trying very hard to make me feel comfortable. And I know that them stressing over that was making, you know, adding a lot to their plate, too. And that stressed me out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was this a good thing overall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why was it a good thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.08220657435936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, it was not just me. It was like, I'm sure I put a lot of stress on this family too. Well, especially at first. Like, I was super concerned about my dad back home. I didn't know it was like what was going to happen, and I was really stressed out about being here and not being able to speak to anybody. And I know that they, I mean, I know they worried about me. You know, I was the first volunteer in my village and they didn't know what I would eat. They didn't know what I liked. They, you know, they were trying very hard to make me feel comfortable. And I know that them stressing over that was making, you know, adding a lot to their plate, too. And that stressed me out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was this a good thing overall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why was it a good thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the biggest thing was my host family. I was super close to them. They're so wonderful. I think my host sister I was closest to because she was 14, so she was, you know, slightly closer to my age than anybody else was. My host mom worked a lot and we're close too, but I think I spent the most time hanging out with Vennay. She was just she said she was just like such a teenage girl. She had boyfriends and she liked clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you could relate to that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.535785082621514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So why was it a good thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, the biggest thing was my host family. I was super close to them. They're so wonderful. I think my host sister I was closest to because she was 14, so she was, you know, slightly closer to my age than anybody else was. My host mom worked a lot and we're close too, but I think I spent the most time hanging out with Vennay. She was just she said she was just like such a teenage girl. She had boyfriends and she liked clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you could relate to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, I could remember being 14. And yeah, and then Vennut, my host brother, is just like the coolest kid ever. He's so curious. He was always bringing home like an instrument from school or a new book, or he'd always run into the house. You don't call people by their name in Cambodia. You call them by their like an honorific, you say aunt or older sister. And so my name in Cambodia was from my host kids was Bong, Bong Sally. And Bong means older. And so he'd always run into the house after school, run up the steps and say, Bong Bong! Look what I learned today, or look what I can do. Or do you know what this is? He is such a cool kid and just super curious and really good at school. So he was always fun to hang out with. And then my younger host sister, she. I've never had younger siblings, so I never was very good at interacting with kids, and she kind of was in her own room. So we didn't hang out then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old was she?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.13687940002951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was eight. She and I did not hang out that much. She was, she watched TV a lot and it's funny. I've been back to visit and she's gotten really good at school and is doing really well now. Cambodian kids have this tendency to, like, be really, really terrible kids where they run all over the place and don't listen anybody. And then at like 10, they kind of like snap out of it and they're like, these perfect tiny humans who just like, do all the dishes and help with everything. And I think she was kind of in that stage right before that where she was kind of like, I didn't know what to do with her. She didn't know what to do with me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've stayed in touch with the family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We're on, uh. When I left, Vennay was the only one with a Facebook, so she and I kind of corresponded and then Vennut got a Facebook, and recently my host mom got a Facebook. So we've stayed in touch, and I've been back to visit once, about two years after I left. And so Vennay got married, she dropped out of school and got married right after I left, which I was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not good, not good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.707643777810567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We're on, uh. When I left, Vennay was the only one with a Facebook, so she and I kind of corresponded and then Vennut got a Facebook, and recently my host mom got a Facebook. So we've stayed in touch, and I've been back to visit once, about two years after I left. And so Vennay got married, she dropped out of school and got married right after I left, which I was like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not good, not good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't really in any sort of like communicative way, but when I went back, I mean, there's several people that I was very close with it, like my English tutor or my my tutor, who was the English teacher at the school and young Dom, the village health volunteer that I worked with on the agriculture project and my health center director, and then several of my students from the high school that I'm pretty close with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your expectations were too high for what you could do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.45293753090063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, not good. But it was kind of. Her mom wanted her to stay in school, but her dad wanted her to drop out, and so she dropped out and got married. And then she got, she was pregnant pretty soon after that, actually lost her baby. She had a miscarriage at like eight months. It was really awful. She was like 18. Because I went back while she was pregnant and like, brought all these babies clothes, like my mom and my grandmother sent all these baby clothes and things. But she just actually had a baby a couple of months ago, a little girl."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So you're close to the family, did you stay in touch with anybody else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't really in any sort of like communicative way, but when I went back, I mean, there's several people that I was very close with it, like my English tutor or my my tutor, who was the English teacher at the school and young Dom, the village health volunteer that I worked with on the agriculture project and my health center director, and then several of my students from the high school that I'm pretty close with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think your expectations were too high for what you could do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. I think kind of like I mentioned, I was really good at my job before I left and I thought that I could kind of perform at a similar level. And, you know, I mean, the part of the thing was, I didn't know I was having to completely retrain and not only a new job, but a culture and a language. And in this world, that was totally different than I knew how to function in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that a good thing for Peace Corps? Should it be structuring the job more so that you can be more productive?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.125647814206113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think just the relationships and not only with my host family and the my other friends in the village, but, you know, also one part of Peace Corps I didn't expect is that I was going to have this big cohort of Americans. And not only was I learning about Cambodian culture, I was learning about like, you know, we were from all over the states. And, you know, I learned things about how people lived in Minnesota. Like I was learning all this American culture, too that I hadn't really expected to learn. And you know, and I think Peace Corps, the biggest part of my quote unquote Peace Corps life now is, still really, really good friends with [noise]. Squirrel, do you think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Weird. Things in the walls. I mean is the biggest part of my post Peace Corps life is continuing to engage with Peace Corps as all of my really wonderful friends that I have from Peace Corps. And then the lessons that I learned from Peace Corps. I love continuing to hang out with Peace Corps people because Peace Corps people kind of have this like mentality about them, that super flex, you know, you can kind of anything goes. [noise] I'm waiting for it to fall through the ceiling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For those of you, for the interview, we are sitting in a room and there is noise in the ceiling of an animal moving around. And we are somewhat distracted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was watching a squirrel on the roof a minute ago, which is making me think that it's probably a squirrel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, but that's part of the Peace Corps experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.806275349117904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok. Weird. Things in the walls. I mean is the biggest part of my post Peace Corps life is continuing to engage with Peace Corps as all of my really wonderful friends that I have from Peace Corps. And then the lessons that I learned from Peace Corps. I love continuing to hang out with Peace Corps people because Peace Corps people kind of have this like mentality about them, that super flex, you know, you can kind of anything goes. [noise] I'm waiting for it to fall through the ceiling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For those of you, for the interview, we are sitting in a room and there is noise in the ceiling of an animal moving around. And we are somewhat distracted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was watching a squirrel on the roof a minute ago, which is making me think that it's probably a squirrel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, but that's part of the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But see, this is kind of like, you know, Peace Corps people going, oh all right, there's a squirrel in the ceiling. So that kind of that shift in mentality of, you know, me getting on that bike to go down and find the health volunteer and having no idea where I was going, I feel like, I can do anything really if I want to. And I think Peace Corps volunteers tend to think that. And being OK with being uncomfortable because I spent so much of my time there, you know, like people would bring me to like a ceremony or a party and they would like sit me down on the ground somewhere and like, leave me and I'd be there. I remember the first few times that happened I was so uncomfortable, and I'd wish that I had a book to read or something to do. And after a while, you just you kind of get used to being plopped down places and you're just thinking, staring into space, you know, observing. Occasionally people will come up to you and talk or I'll, you know, go over and start getting involved in the food prep or whatever, but just having the ability to be totally fine with ambiguity and discomfort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how has that played out in your life since Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.310391425401786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it's enabled me to. I mean, it's that those skills are so applicable to life anywhere. I was always, I grew up a really shy kid, and I kind of had to figure that out. By the time I got through college, I'd kind of gotten over that because I kind of realized how the world worked and how I was supposed to interact with people in a way that wasn't going to be uncomfortable. And then I showed up in Cambodia and I was like, oh I don't know how anything works. Like, I was back to square one. I was like having to relearn how to interact with the world. And I think that's kind of pushed me completely beyond any sort of like, I can, I can. And I think this is a common Peace Corps adage. But you know, if I can stand up and put like a condom on a wooden penis in front of like a room full of teenagers in a language that is not my third or fourth language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And feel comfortable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I can do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So reflecting back, so did you have vacations? Did you travel as well? Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.233768250446428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I can do anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. So reflecting back, so did you have vacations? Did you travel as well? Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were allowed to go to Europe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.14863138938492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I traveled extensively within Cambodia, and that was really neat because Cambodia is not easy to travel within. There's, you know, a couple of places you can get that are not off the, you know, that are kind of have the regular bus busses and things like that. But there's some other places up in the mountains and into the forests and out onto the islands that are just. But when I was there was not set up for tourism and so it took a long time to get to those places and to know that you could get to those places or that there was somewhere you wanted to go. And so I did a lot of exploring inside Cambodia. And that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel by yourself or with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were allowed to go to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside the country, yeah. You just took leave. We got as Peace Corps volunteers, we had very generous leave allowances. I can't remember how much we like two days a month or something. So it was a bunch. I went home for a month, actually pretty soon after I got there. It was when my dad was getting like a major treatment for cancer. And so I went home for a month for right after Thanksgiving in between Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a jarring experience going back and forth?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.165145988205467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, mostly with Peace Corps volunteers. It was kind of everybody getting together in other places. There was a lot of getting together and camaraderie about how stressed everybody was or, you know, learning from each other about what are you doing at site? Ok, maybe I can do that at site too. And then I got to travel outside. My family didn't come see me, but they said they'd meet up in Europe for Christmas one year, and I said, oh yeah, I'll definitely meet you in Europe for Christmas. So we did that. I went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were allowed to go to Europe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Outside the country, yeah. You just took leave. We got as Peace Corps volunteers, we had very generous leave allowances. I can't remember how much we like two days a month or something. So it was a bunch. I went home for a month, actually pretty soon after I got there. It was when my dad was getting like a major treatment for cancer. And so I went home for a month for right after Thanksgiving in between Christmas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a jarring experience going back and forth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, I think, right then because it was so soon it was like it was like four months after I'd got there, so it got in there. So it was pretty early on. It wasn't really that big of a deal. Coming like coming back after words was hugely jarring, but that early on it was, I think it was still kind of normal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was so jarring coming back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 19.5338301908329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. I've been back for four years, and I think it's kind of dissipated, but I didn't go to, I kind of traveled. I traveled for like a year after I got back. And so I think if I'd been thrown into school or work, I would have been forced to get over it a little bit quicker. But since I wasn't, I didn't get over it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came home and then you went back to Asia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.593144656481002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not really. I've been back for four years, and I think it's kind of dissipated, but I didn't go to, I kind of traveled. I traveled for like a year after I got back. And so I think if I'd been thrown into school or work, I would have been forced to get over it a little bit quicker. But since I wasn't, I didn't get over it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came home and then you went back to Asia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we stayed for like three or four months and we went to Nepal and India and Burma and Thailand. And then I came back and me and another friend who had kind of, had signed up together but she went to Burkina Faso and I went to Cambodia. So she got back and then we went to Germany and France and Austria, Switzerland. And then I traveled around the states a lot. I went and saw all of my friends around the states that I hadn't seen in, you know, a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after all that travel, then what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.43682739609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were four of us from our group that went and traveled around Asia. We went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came home and then you went back to Asia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we stayed for like three or four months and we went to Nepal and India and Burma and Thailand. And then I came back and me and another friend who had kind of, had signed up together but she went to Burkina Faso and I went to Cambodia. So she got back and then we went to Germany and France and Austria, Switzerland. And then I traveled around the states a lot. I went and saw all of my friends around the states that I hadn't seen in, you know, a couple of years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after all that travel, then what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got. It was like to the day a year after I had finished service because I got a job using my noncompetitive eligibility status. I one of my friends actually, that I had traveled with and had done Peace Corps at the same time I did was working for Peace Corps headquarters and she sent me this job list and she said, hey look, there's a Department of Commerce job in Austin. You should look at it. And it was an economic development specialist which sounded really smart and it was NCE. And so I essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean? Explain what that means."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.946700489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got. It was like to the day a year after I had finished service because I got a job using my noncompetitive eligibility status. I one of my friends actually, that I had traveled with and had done Peace Corps at the same time I did was working for Peace Corps headquarters and she sent me this job list and she said, hey look, there's a Department of Commerce job in Austin. You should look at it. And it was an economic development specialist which sounded really smart and it was NCE. And so I essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean? Explain what that means."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Noncompetitive eligibility is so returned Peace Corps volunteers have a year to have, they have essentially preferential federal hiring. The federal hiring process is absurdly onerous to try and get through, and the way the NCE works is for a year, they can just hire you without having to go through the competitive process of hiring a federal applicant, which is great because it favors veterans, so they get a lot of points. But if you're not a veteran, it's really difficult to get a job with the federal government. And so I saw this and I saw that I knew that my NCE status was about to expire and the job posting was about to expire. And so I just called up somebody from the Austin office and I said, hey can we get coffee? And I explained to him who I was and this hiring preference and why I was qualified for the job. And I had a job offer later that day, which was incredible. Yeah, I'd gone from like starting out this stressful job search process and I was like, suddenly employed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you stay in that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you're still in it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.82966721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Noncompetitive eligibility is so returned Peace Corps volunteers have a year to have, they have essentially preferential federal hiring. The federal hiring process is absurdly onerous to try and get through, and the way the NCE works is for a year, they can just hire you without having to go through the competitive process of hiring a federal applicant, which is great because it favors veterans, so they get a lot of points. But if you're not a veteran, it's really difficult to get a job with the federal government. And so I saw this and I saw that I knew that my NCE status was about to expire and the job posting was about to expire. And so I just called up somebody from the Austin office and I said, hey can we get coffee? And I explained to him who I was and this hiring preference and why I was qualified for the job. And I had a job offer later that day, which was incredible. Yeah, I'd gone from like starting out this stressful job search process and I was like, suddenly employed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you stay in that job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still have that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you're still in it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I still work with the same organization. I do something slightly different, but yeah, I'm still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You work for the Department of Commerce in Austin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.39049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. So it's the federal Department of Commerce, but it's the Economic Development Administration. And I came in and I was working essentially with I had like a portfolio of grants that I managed. And that's a pretty boring job because a lot of paperwork. But it's a really cool mission because the EDA works with economically distressed communities to do job creation through planning and funding. And so it's very Peace Corps-esque in its mission. And I remember we, early on, we're looking at this project to fund and somebody had gone up to talk with the people who were applying for this for this grant. And the project was this little town in Arkansas that had lost its lumber mill a couple of years before. And all these people had lost their jobs and now were having to commute to other towns or working in a skill set that was not their primary skill set in town and weren't making as much money.\n\nAnd so my boss in our office went up to talk with him about potentially funding to help reopen the lumber mill. And usually on visits like that, you know, the mayor takes you around or the economic development person takes you around and the representative from the company is there. And it's just like two or three people and they kind of show you what the project is. And this one, they showed up to the site and like the whole town was there. All three hundred employees and their families and like everybody else and they were all there and they're like, you need to fund this. So we did and the lumber mill came back online and those people got their jobs back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's a really cool organization. And I've been doing the last year or so all our special projects. So I've been building up programs to help, you know, help regions build capacity to help I work in innovation and entrepreneurship. So creating jobs through, you know, people building up their own businesses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a cool job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. What's your ongoing involvement with Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's a really cool organization. And I've been doing the last year or so all our special projects. So I've been building up programs to help, you know, help regions build capacity to help I work in innovation and entrepreneurship. So creating jobs through, you know, people building up their own businesses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's a cool job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. What's your ongoing involvement with Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm the president for the Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association in Austin, Texas. I've been involved in the board there for a couple of years as the incoming or there's the vice president and then the president. And then just for the past year, since January, as the president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you guys do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm the president for the Heart of Texas Peace Corps Association in Austin, Texas. I've been involved in the board there for a couple of years as the incoming or there's the vice president and then the president. And then just for the past year, since January, as the president."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you guys do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a few different functions. We have social events. So it's a big kind of Peace Corps get together. It was actually one of the first things I did when I came back because I was like terrified of how to deal with America. And so I went and hung out with a Peace Corps group and that was a little, you know, it was kind of like a soft landing pad. We do volunteer events, we do grants, we have a grant fund, we fund active volunteer projects and then we fund other projects that we find are in line with Peace Corps values. And then we're trying to expand our kind of community conversations on cultural understanding. We're really excited and I don't think I'm allowed to tell anybody yet, but this recording isn't going anywhere for the next day, that we're hosting next year's National Peace Corps Conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have a few different functions. We have social events. So it's a big kind of Peace Corps get together. It was actually one of the first things I did when I came back because I was like terrified of how to deal with America. And so I went and hung out with a Peace Corps group and that was a little, you know, it was kind of like a soft landing pad. We do volunteer events, we do grants, we have a grant fund, we fund active volunteer projects and then we fund other projects that we find are in line with Peace Corps values. And then we're trying to expand our kind of community conversations on cultural understanding. We're really excited and I don't think I'm allowed to tell anybody yet, but this recording isn't going anywhere for the next day, that we're hosting next year's National Peace Corps Conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we're super, super excited about that. And it's going to be looking at kind of social impact in business or doing, you know, like social entrepreneurship and talking about when Peace Corps volunteers return, kind of how that experience influences what they do with their careers and their lives and how to build up that, you know, take those lessons away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'll be really busy in the coming year. Very, very busy. That's exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've brought Peace Corps back to the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lack of cross-cultural."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, in the way that I think Peace Corps volunteers typically do. But yeah, in my life personally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's totally third goal, getting involved in all the association activities as well as job that you're doing, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lack of cross-cultural."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, we've been, I mean, our goal to try and incorporate more of the conversation that we can contribute now is certainly leans on third goal. But then and I think especially now, I think we're thinking, I think everybody's thinking about it more now about looking at cross-cultural understanding in a time where we're dealing with like America First."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Lack of cross-cultural."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't know all of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, total lack of cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's a really good opportunity, a big opportunity for Peace Corps volunteers to have some say in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think you had any impact in Cambodia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't know all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That in itself was a learning experience."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I think so, I think in kind of small ways. I think in ways that we're often unaware of in the ways that we touch people's lives. But you know, there were there would be instances, like I brought it a map home at one point of the world and pinned it up on our wall. And I remember my host brother standing there and we were looking at it and he was like, what's all this? And I was like, what you mean, what's all this? He was like, what's all this blue stuff? Oh, there's the oceans. And, you know, just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He didn't know all of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That in itself was a learning experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, it was a great experience. Good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, people had no idea what to do with me, often because they'd never met anybody from outside Cambodia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That in itself was a learning experience."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, it was a great experience. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was an awesome experience. I can't imagine having done anything better with my time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Anything else you want to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00054:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then, I hope I, you know, because I taught a lot and it's hard to, you know, you don't really see the immediate impacts of that. And so I hope that I was beneficial in some ways, but it's hard to gauge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So overall, it was a great experience. Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was an awesome experience. I can't imagine having done anything better with my time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Anything else you want to say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, so good interview. Thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 39.72268062573571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How long have you lived in this area?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Officially since 2001."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pe-Te’s Cajun Barbecue was still open in 2001. I think he sold it in—well, he sold it to his son in maybe 2004, 2005, and they finally sold it. It closed sometime after I came back. It was a restaurant right across from the main entrance to Ellington Field [Houston, Texas]. I don’t know if you ever saw it there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ve seen it there, and I noticed it was closed. I actually wanted to go at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been friends with Pe-Te for quite a number of years, and he’s got a radio program on every Saturday morning from six to nine. He is from Louisiana. He’s from Eunice, Louisiana, which is further north, and they call themselves “prairie Cajuns.” His actual name is really Les [Lester] Johnson. He’s a small wiry guy, so when he was a kid, because he was a small fellow, they nicknamed him Pe-Te. Cajun petit, from the French petit. So it’s Pe-Te."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn’t know that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.845805321259949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I felt pretty good about that.\\n\\n Another thing, we may have discussed this—again, the psych support people will try to find celebrities or people that you might find interesting, and they’ll try to coordinate a radio hookup, a space-to-ground loop connection to a telephone call. They’ll try to coordinate something like that. They were able to get a linkup for me with J. K. [Joanne “Jo”] Rowling, the author of the Harry Potters. She was very charming. It was a nice thing.\\n\\n I talked to the Army football head coach. Unfortunately, Army did very badly that year against Navy. I think I talked to the secretary of the Army once. Going back to Lost, my daughter and I would watch the episodes and we’d chat about what was going on. One of the people they linked me up with was an actor named Terry [Terrance] O’Quinn who played this slightly older, bald—one of the castaways, John Locke. I happened to mention that Meg, my younger daughter, was a big fan and she was the one that had gotten them to start sending the episodes to me. He goes, “Oh, really? Give me her phone number, and I’ll call her.” So I did, and he did, so that was a neat thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you had a conversation with the Russian Santa Claus, I can’t recall his name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the Santa Claus, the patriarch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that it? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The patriarch, who’s the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. He’s the Russian Orthodox counterpart to the [Roman catholic] pope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also had read that you linked up with Paul McCartney. Kind of a big name."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.93978369028883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the Santa Claus, the patriarch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that it? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The patriarch, who’s the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. He’s the Russian Orthodox counterpart to the [Roman catholic] pope."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also had read that you linked up with Paul McCartney. Kind of a big name."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. Same younger daughter, she was a next-generation Beatles fan, and she was pretty interested in capitalizing on this ability of Dad to connect with celebrities. They told the psych support folks that “Oh yes, Bill would just love to talk to Paul McCartney” and this, that, and the other.\\n\\n So I get an e-mail. It’s like “Hey, we understand you’re a big Paul McCartney fan.”\\n\\n I’m going, “Well, everyone in my generation. I was a Beatles fan. I like his music.” I don’t swoon over him but still.\\n\\n “Could you write a letter talking about what a big fan you are?”\\n\\n I said, “Well no, not really. I don’t think we want to go that far, but I’d love to chat with him if it’s something he’s interested in doing.”\\n\\n I think one of his songs was played as wake-up music for STS-114. Evidently, he was pleased with that and that received some publicity. The counterproposal—and most of these conversations, like the one with Jo Rowling, other celebrities, they are privatized. So that radio transmission is not open for anyone in Mission Control or the public to hear.\\n\\n The McCartney group asked if we were willing to make an exception to that and do something a little more public. “Sure.” So what we actually did is we actually had a live hookup with his concert in I think it was Anaheim, California. They actually had I think some round TV screens, or round TV projections, behind McCartney on the stage, where the audience could see me and Valery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s really cool. You mentioned your younger daughter was really interested in these kind of things. How old was she at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.187631948270001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She had just graduated from college. No, she had just finished two years of grad [graduate] school, so she was like twenty-three, twenty-four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve talked about talking with celebrities and well-known people. How did you stay in contact with your wife and your daughters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I phoned home almost every day. We had two IP phone channels at the time. Last I heard they had increased it to four. I have an aviation headset with a boom microphone that you can connect to your laptop. You call up a virtual telephone, and if you have the right satellite bands, if you have Ku-band available, you can make a phone call.\\n\\n I would call at least one of them virtually every day. This was before high-speed internet was truly ubiquitous. They put in a couple of dedicated high-speed internet lines to the house. I think they also were concerned—they wanted dedicated lines just for security purposes. So we would have a videoconference generally every Sunday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. I’m thinking about the folks who flew on Apollo and Skylab. They had those squawk boxes in their houses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.986257720300001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I phoned home almost every day. We had two IP phone channels at the time. Last I heard they had increased it to four. I have an aviation headset with a boom microphone that you can connect to your laptop. You call up a virtual telephone, and if you have the right satellite bands, if you have Ku-band available, you can make a phone call.\\n\\n I would call at least one of them virtually every day. This was before high-speed internet was truly ubiquitous. They put in a couple of dedicated high-speed internet lines to the house. I think they also were concerned—they wanted dedicated lines just for security purposes. So we would have a videoconference generally every Sunday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice. I’m thinking about the folks who flew on Apollo and Skylab. They had those squawk boxes in their houses."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.651397467000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. As far as your emotional and psychological health, these are wonderful things. You’re not going to be able to do those things going to Mars, just [because of] the time lag. I think we may be able to send messages or send videos, but you won’t be able to have this interactive communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s kind of a big deal, being able to stay in touch with somebody else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.390441630000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why I think the crewmembers who do that—they’re going to have an extraordinary opportunity, they’re going to have to be extraordinary people. I think the folks who make those decisions are going to have to put a lot of thought into the right crew complement. People that really will be able to provide each other the emotional support and can either avoid conflict or manage conflict really well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have about ten minutes. I don’t want to eat into your time, especially if you’re going to go have lunch with your wife."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Journals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.100490700000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I suspect she doesn’t have time for me in her schedule. But we are leaving for Scotland on Wednesday, so I do plan to start packing today."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I noticed one of the experiments on board was very unusual. It was onboard crew journaling."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Journals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.778323000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Journals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Someone was actually looking at crew journals. I was curious, was there a format or was it just free writing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.531470000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was really free. I tried to get clever, and I would say—I guess I typed it in, “Star date,” and then just put the real date. Don Pettit actually came up with a star dating, a way to express chronological points in time in an orbital sort of way. But no, I just used day date."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would they get downloaded on a regular basis, or was it at the end of your increment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just thought that was a very interesting experiment. It wasn’t something that I was expecting to see. Is that something that’s still ongoing now on Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.368300000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My guess is just to ensure that the data was all [there]. I’m sure they downloaded it just about every day, just to make sure they archived it on the ground to avoid the risk of losing the data. I don’t know where it is. It’s got to be in my memorabilia somewhere, but I got a copy of everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel at all self-conscious sharing that information with an outsider? Were there certain things that you didn’t include in your journals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just thought that was a very interesting experiment. It wasn’t something that I was expecting to see. Is that something that’s still ongoing now on Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other experiments that I noticed that you did—and they’re actually available—are a series of videos. They were educational videos that you did of Station."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.43, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other experiments that I noticed that you did—and they’re actually available—are a series of videos. They were educational videos that you did of Station."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, the head of the Education Projects Office at the time was my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Convenient."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\\n\\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\\n\\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, the head of the Education Projects Office at the time was my wife."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Convenient."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\\n\\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\\n\\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were the pieces?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for most of those she was the principal investigator. One of the things that folks on the ground would do is they had something called “Saturday Science.” So these education videos, they were considered a payload. Part of what identifies something as a payload is that it may be something the crew does on orbit that isn’t involved specifically in keeping the Space Station in space.\\n\\n What the ground would do is they would very often offer a couple of things. “These are two experiments, would you be willing to work on one of them Saturday afternoon?” They discovered very quickly that if they were education-related then I could not refuse. I struck a bargain with them. I said, “I will do these education things.” If they happened at one in the afternoon, that wasn’t that early in Houston, but it was early enough. And then if somebody’s going to come in to support it, they’re going to have to be in a little bit earlier.\\n\\n I said I would agree to it as long as the principal investigator didn’t happen to be on console when I was doing it. I try not to bring my wife into work. One time she was in Huntsville [Alabama], and she was at the Payload Operations [and Integration] Center there [Marshall Space Flight Center]. They let her on the radio as a guest payload controller."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since there were only two of you, was Valery behind you recording or were there cameras inside the Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were the pieces?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at some of the titles. Education has them listed by increment, so you can go out and take a look at different aspects of the Space Station, that’s kind of nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00392:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would set cameras up and mount them on these brackets. Mount them on, and do it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were the pieces?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Minutes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was looking at some of the titles. Education has them listed by increment, so you can go out and take a look at different aspects of the Space Station, that’s kind of nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In retrospect, there were a couple of things that are unfortunate, but just the way they are. That was Valery and I generally—we did some things together, but a lot of our activities were separate. So if you were going to document with either video or still photography something you were doing, you had to set the camera up. You had to operate the cameras, as well as do whatever the other activity was. So I think we just don’t have quite the depth of photo and video documentation that crews get now.\\n\\n Plus, we didn’t have high-definition cameras. Some of the external cameras now I guess are high definition. Some of the video we have, like video of EVAs—it reminds me of Apollo video, you know it’s grainy. One of the cameras that was used got some really good footage of our Russian segment EVA, was nicknamed “Pinky” because the video has a pink cast to it.\\n\\n When the ground processed it for us to use postflight, they were able to convert it to black-and-white, which isn’t great. A lot better than pink, but it’s—I’ve got pink shirts at home. Clothes, pink is good, some of the women I ride with have pink bicycles or at least pink accents on their bicycles. Pink’s a good color, not a good color for EVAs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might be a good place for us to stop."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00741:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 39.85768546441744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. I started out as an Orbiter test mechanic. Basically that’s a mechanic that will work on the Orbiter. I started before the first Orbiter arrived at Kennedy Space Center, so I started building the servicing panels in a machine shop in the VAB [Vehicle Assembly Building] that would later service the vehicle itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in 1979?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because of the extensive tile work that Rockwell [International Corporation] knew had to be completed on the Orbiter, they took a lot of mechanical and electrical techs [technicians] from KSC, trained them here to do tile work and then loaned us to the Palmdale [California] facility to augment them in working on the vehicle. This was mostly to train us so when the vehicle came here we could finish the tile work. In those days, NASA envisioned the tile to be a onetime job, you install it on the vehicle, and then you never mess with it again for the rest of the Shuttle history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That didn’t work out, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those days at Palmdale and then how you transition that knowledge here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00741:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 38.73076162713049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Because of the extensive tile work that Rockwell [International Corporation] knew had to be completed on the Orbiter, they took a lot of mechanical and electrical techs [technicians] from KSC, trained them here to do tile work and then loaned us to the Palmdale [California] facility to augment them in working on the vehicle. This was mostly to train us so when the vehicle came here we could finish the tile work. In those days, NASA envisioned the tile to be a onetime job, you install it on the vehicle, and then you never mess with it again for the rest of the Shuttle history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That didn’t work out, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it did not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about those days at Palmdale and then how you transition that knowledge here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were loaned out there. Palmdale was a union shop, and we were not a union shop here, so there was quite a bit of friction. Eventually they allowed us to go to work, so we actually went out, worked on the vehicle, learned how to install the tile on the vehicle, and then we were sent back here to go back to our regular job. When [Space Shuttle] Columbia came here on Easter weekend, most of us were loaned to the OPF to start work on it.\\n\\n My first function was to actually start receiving the thousands of tile that were going to be shipped here to later be installed on the vehicle. In those days, you had to be a certified tile technician just to handle the tiles, so the logistics folks here weren’t allowed to touch the hardware. Along with a half a dozen other techs and myself, we did the initial receiving of thousands of tiles coming into KSC. Eventually, we trained the logistics folks and certified them to handle the hardware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did those get here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00741:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 41.28146233943277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t have the capability we have today to view the entire Orbiter while in space. We knew we lost some because there were some at the launch pad. So we knew we had lost some tiles. There were many other issues at the launch pad after STS-1. When the vehicle returned and landed at Dryden [Air Force Base, Edwards, California] is when we got the really good look at it and noticed how many tiles were gone.\\n\\n By then I had been transferred to the forward section, so I became the forward supervisor still when we were processing for STS-1. As a result, we had to remove a little over 400 tile just off of the forward section after STS-1 in preps [preparations] for STS-2. Now, some of those were where we had lost a tile or a portion of the tile. Some of them we removed because the tiles were chipped; others because they broke. There were some tiles that flexed more than they expected, so we had broken tiles.\\n\\n We had to take tiles off for access. Antennas are installed right over the tile, so if we had a problem with an antenna, then we’d have to remove the tile to get to that. In a lot of areas where the original designers planned for us to open up things, like just to get the side hatch open, we have panels and the tiles bonded to an aluminum panel, we can take the panel off without debonding the tile. People don’t realize it; there’s six hundred doors and panels on this vehicle that come on and off as part of its processing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You sound like the president now. “Wow.” [laughter] I gave President Obama his tour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I saw that picture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of his comments were, “Wow. Really? I don’t believe that.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s more and more that we have learned during the years that we’ve been doing this that it doesn’t matter where we go or who we talk to, there’s always one more “wow” that we find, because there are so many intricate pieces that work on that Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.964463985279586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's pretty crazy. I mean, it makes Rome and Athens look like Zurich in terms of organization. I mean, those guys are nuts when it comes to driving. They kind of look like they're following the same laws as we do, but in some ways they have traffic lights sort of in the middles of intersections, and you wouldn't know I saw what I'm sure was a fatal accident there one night driving by, and this guy was just completely he passed us on the right, and his brakes were locked as he passed us, so he was going faster than we were, slowing down, and swerved in front of us and was hit by a car coming in the other direction. I mean, it was pretty eye-opening. And then the roads are just terrible there. Congestion is I mean, it's really a borderline Third World country. It's different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much of a commute from where you were with all your duties, or was most everything you did right there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, I walked about fifteen yards from my bedroom to my office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could sleep in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody worked within walking distance from our office. Now, to go into Moscow was a different story. From downtown Moscow to where we work is fifty-six kilometers, so I don't know what that is, but it's about thirty miles, and it would take at least an hour and a half. So there and back, for you to go there and come back in a day, that's three hours a day. So I would go in maximum once a week if I had to go to the embassy or something like that. You had to go in for grocery shopping and that kind of a thing, and so there weren't very many people who were married there. The Foales and the Linengers, at the beginning, were both there, and my wife came, too. We got married right before we went to Russia, as a matter of fact, so that was our honeymoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a nine-month honeymoon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.293848872532873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, I walked about fifteen yards from my bedroom to my office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could sleep in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody worked within walking distance from our office. Now, to go into Moscow was a different story. From downtown Moscow to where we work is fifty-six kilometers, so I don't know what that is, but it's about thirty miles, and it would take at least an hour and a half. So there and back, for you to go there and come back in a day, that's three hours a day. So I would go in maximum once a week if I had to go to the embassy or something like that. You had to go in for grocery shopping and that kind of a thing, and so there weren't very many people who were married there. The Foales and the Linengers, at the beginning, were both there, and my wife came, too. We got married right before we went to Russia, as a matter of fact, so that was our honeymoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a nine-month honeymoon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But she'd been there before, and she's not American anyway, and just all that to say that she's probably a little bit more adaptable to that kind of a lifestyle than sort of a standard newlywed American wife would be. She ended up in some ways being a little bit a den mother, you know, doing shopping for people, because a lot of the people there I mean, even if they were used to cooking for themselves and that kind of thing, you don't have time to go grocery shopping when you're in training, you know, because they schedule from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. It's tough to when you consider it's three hours to get in and out of Moscow, you've got to do it on the weekend, and frankly, on the weekend, (a), you'd like to relax a little and, (b), you probably have to study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what I've read, your background is somewhat international in itself. Did that help you adapt to living that nine months there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.663842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Typically seven o'clock, I'd be in the office, in my sort of inner office, and outside would be the other office, and somebody would come in with a batch of margaritas or something like that. So you ended up being able to mix, because it's like living and working in a dorm, and you live together, you work together. So the whole line between your personal and professional lives is a lot blurrier than it is certainly now, here, and probably in any work environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess you were on twenty-four-hour call. Your work never stopped. You just took yourself in different locations that you worked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And the people back here in Houston respected that, for the most part. I mean, they knew about the time difference. After a certain time, you know, they could always get you at home if they needed you, but they would just leave a message or send you an e-mail or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The communications worked well by the time that you became DOR between Russia -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.51538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And the people back here in Houston respected that, for the most part. I mean, they knew about the time difference. After a certain time, you know, they could always get you at home if they needed you, but they would just leave a message or send you an e-mail or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The communications worked well by the time that you became DOR between Russia -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.1282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. The communications, the infrastructure that NASA had there was probably one of the best in Russia anywhere at that point, and that really went a long way to getting people feeling closer to home. I think two years before I got there, you know, before we had a kitchen, before we had any kind of computer network, access to the Internet, before they had a video library, which we have now, all those sorts of little things, before you could pick up a telephone and dial the U.S. like that, all that stuff helped a lot, and before that had to be a lot harder."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the nine months, did you come back to the States at all? You were there the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in May. It was in early May, and there were still icebergs on the Lake Baikal. That was pretty neat. One fifth, I think, of the fresh water in the world in this lake. I mean, it's a big lake, very deep, and there's nobody out there. I mean, a couple little villages on the shore, but it's amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back since?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6979999999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came back at Christmastime for a week, and then I also came back only a month before I was to be relieved, because my mother passed away. So other than that, I was there the whole time. Actually, that's not true. I also took a trip to Spain while I was there, for a week, and we did a little bit of tourism there. We went to St. Petersburg twice. We went to Lake Baikal, Irkutsk [phonetic] in Siberia for a weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to assume that during the summertime you were there, or did you go during the wintertime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in May. It was in early May, and there were still icebergs on the Lake Baikal. That was pretty neat. One fifth, I think, of the fresh water in the world in this lake. I mean, it's a big lake, very deep, and there's nobody out there. I mean, a couple little villages on the shore, but it's amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Russia? Once. And I'm going next week, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it when you went back, knowing you were only going to be there for a short time? Did you see it differently?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.22, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in May. It was in early May, and there were still icebergs on the Lake Baikal. That was pretty neat. One fifth, I think, of the fresh water in the world in this lake. I mean, it's a big lake, very deep, and there's nobody out there. I mean, a couple little villages on the shore, but it's amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you been back since?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Russia? Once. And I'm going next week, as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it when you went back, knowing you were only going to be there for a short time? Did you see it differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Pauses] Yes. You definitely see it differently. One nice thing about being DOR is, it's a very small kingdom, but you're the king. When you go back, you're not the king anymore, you know; you're just visiting. So you feel a little bit different. It was neat to see, especially the Russian people, they really treat you like they missed you, and it's like a family kind of thing, where even though I hadn't seen them in well, it had only been about six months, but it really felt like kind of a reunion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those eight or nine folks that have been there, the drivers and the clerical staff, they've had quite a few bosses, quite a few DORs. They adapt well to each one being there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true. Yes, they tend to be older, for the same level of responsibility. Rightly or wrongly, being an astronaut made a big difference to them. I mean, we talked a lot about whether it would be appropriate for the DOR to be a non-astronaut, and they really insist on it. The reason that I was always given is that they're going to respect you more, they're going to assume certain things about you.\\n\\n But the interesting thing is that their system is much less sort of respectful I won't say respectful, but maybe tolerant of astronauts than ours is. You know, here, when we think that something is a training class is not required or too long or too short or bad content or whatever, we make an input, and people will listen. They solicit your inputs, \"How's it going?\" kind of thing. In Russia, it's basically \"Here's a plan. I don't want to hear any questions. Be there at the right time, the right place, shut up and listen,\" kind of thing. So having that as a background, it surprises me that they were so insistent about having the DOR be an astronaut. But maybe they treat the other people worse, I don't know. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that their only mandate for that office, or did they have other input into what they wanted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In reviewing the last year or so of your life, is there significant accomplishment or a significant contribution that you would like to tell us about as a participant of this program, that kind of stands out in your mind as one of the most special things that happened while you were in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of it together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In reviewing the last year or so of your life, is there significant accomplishment or a significant contribution that you would like to tell us about as a participant of this program, that kind of stands out in your mind as one of the most special things that happened while you were in that position?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of it together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I just think that just by being there, you end up contributing a lot, and probably if you weren't there, somebody else would be there in your place, they'd probably do as well as you. But who knows? You make the calls on the spot as you see them, and each decision that you make, in some small way influences the way things turned out. So I guess all of us who have participated in that have made little contributions here and there which maybe have your name on it. My contribution was probably buying the vacuum cleaner, which I'm very proud of. We shopped all over for that thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's unique. Is this a unique vacuum cleaner, or just the fact that there's one there now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All of it together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I just think that just by being there, you end up contributing a lot, and probably if you weren't there, somebody else would be there in your place, they'd probably do as well as you. But who knows? You make the calls on the spot as you see them, and each decision that you make, in some small way influences the way things turned out. So I guess all of us who have participated in that have made little contributions here and there which maybe have your name on it. My contribution was probably buying the vacuum cleaner, which I'm very proud of. We shopped all over for that thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's unique. Is this a unique vacuum cleaner, or just the fact that there's one there now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's kind of a history behind it, but we bought this vacuum cleaner, and picking this thing up was really strange. You had to go through we had to go into this office, which was you had to pass through a bank in order to get to the office, and even to get in the bank, it's like going through airport security just to get in the bank. And we go up to the office and we did the paperwork, and they had a bunch of vacuum cleaners there, but that isn't where we were supposed to pick it up.\\n\\n So they gave me directions, and I explained them with a little map to the driver, and he went to this other completely different part of town behind these rusty gates and in this dimly lit warehouse, and lo and behold, there's this room full of brand-new vacuum cleaners in boxes.\\n\\n We took the thing back, and it promptly started eating all the carpet because this carpet was falling apart so bad. But there was less dust, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's quite an interesting story. Is the vacuum cleaner still there and being used?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00778:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's kind of a history behind it, but we bought this vacuum cleaner, and picking this thing up was really strange. You had to go through we had to go into this office, which was you had to pass through a bank in order to get to the office, and even to get in the bank, it's like going through airport security just to get in the bank. And we go up to the office and we did the paperwork, and they had a bunch of vacuum cleaners there, but that isn't where we were supposed to pick it up.\\n\\n So they gave me directions, and I explained them with a little map to the driver, and he went to this other completely different part of town behind these rusty gates and in this dimly lit warehouse, and lo and behold, there's this room full of brand-new vacuum cleaners in boxes.\\n\\n We took the thing back, and it promptly started eating all the carpet because this carpet was falling apart so bad. But there was less dust, though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's quite an interesting story. Is the vacuum cleaner still there and being used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I heard bad stories about it, that literally it was sucking pieces of carpet. So I don't know. But I saw it when I was there in December, and it was still around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, at least the trip was something to remember, anyway.\\n\\n I was going to ask Carol and Paul if they had any questions for you. Do you have anything you'd like to ask?\n\nI can't think of anything right now.\n\nDo you have anything else you'd like to add?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly thank you for your time and for all your participation in the Shuttle-Mir Program, especially the oral history part. So, thanks again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.90308152140176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, I was interested in Latin America, and that's why I became a Spanish major in college. I have relatives living in Chile. And I was always interested in Latin America. In college, besides getting the Spanish major, I started doing a lot of volunteer activities, tutoring.\n\nStudent advisor leadership.\n\nStudent advising leadership program was some kind of a group that was formed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college. I started doing a lot of volunteer sorts of activities. By then, I must have known about the Peace Corps because I was thinking of Peace Corps before I ever met him. Talking about do you want to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you say which university?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Brooklyn College of the City University of New York.\n\nAnd mine goes all the way back to high school. We had an exchange student from Mexico which started it all, actually. And people who knew the exchange student he was in our high school class. We became friendly. And one of my closest friends went down to Mexico in high school, right after that and got into the whole thing of Mexico and persuaded me to go down shortly thereafter. That is now, I was already in college and I went down to a summer school program. Fell in love with the whole thing, got into it because the two of us in high school had sort of figured out that what we would do is, we would solve the problem of world poverty. That was our goal. And I thought it was actually an agricultural problem. Later on, I learned it was a political problem. And maybe that explains why I ended up as a political scientist. And so the year after that, I went down a second time in Mexico and now with the American Friends Service Committee, which is the action arm of the Quakers. And they have these programs, which are sort of a short version of the Peace Corps, except you're in a group of 10 or 12 volunteers and a couple were older who led us. And we went to a Mexican ejido with their."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Mexican what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.902984212251145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in Brooklyn, he grew up in Long Island.\n\nAnd then when I graduated high school and my father died years before, just my mother and I. And so we moved into the city to get free tuition from the city university system. It's a great gift. My mother was originally from Brooklyn and then we met. And in our senior year, we both applied for the Peace Corps and got in and accepted to Brazil, a fishing village in Brazil on the coast.\n\nBelo Horizonte.\n\nAnd then simultaneously I was accepted into a master's program in political science and Latin American studies at University of Florida Gainesville. And so at that crossroads, we opted to do the master's degree and took a bye on the Peace Corps for what turned out to be exactly one year. And then we did, in the context of that program, reapplied. And I guess there's a story there, which is how we ended up in Costa Rica. In that graduate program, I met a guy named Frank San Vito, who was an older grad student, and he was telling me how interesting Costa Rica was. I was interested in Central America at the time. And he introduced me to a Costa Rican who was at the University of Florida getting her master's degree, and she was a Chinese Costa Rican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her name is Alina Wachung, which will come up later in the tape. And because of that, when we reapplied, we said, could you send us to Costa Rica? And unbelievably they did. Because many of the volunteers in our group, like the one who organized this reunion that we're at today, spoke French and wanted to go to Africa, and they sent her to Costa Rica. So we were just lucky to get the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we ended up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, this question is not on the suggested list of questions, but was it difficult because you are a married couple being interviewed? Was it difficult as a married couple to get into the Peace Corps at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.717399468108564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Her name is Alina Wachung, which will come up later in the tape. And because of that, when we reapplied, we said, could you send us to Costa Rica? And unbelievably they did. Because many of the volunteers in our group, like the one who organized this reunion that we're at today, spoke French and wanted to go to Africa, and they sent her to Costa Rica. So we were just lucky to get the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we ended up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, this question is not on the suggested list of questions, but was it difficult because you are a married couple being interviewed? Was it difficult as a married couple to get into the Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were told that it was possible that one of us would be accepted and the other one would not be.\n\nOh, really? I don't even remember that.\n\nI remember that. That only if both were accepted would they, I mean, one could not go as a non-Peace Corps volunteer. It was either both had to be accepted on their own or they would not accept the couple. So they were not going to accept one of them without the other, it had to be both. And each one on his or her own merit. So we knew that.\n\nWell, let's be fair, that is, that we were accepted for training. At least in those days, the training thing was this process of deselection. One of the things that made training a very unpleasant experience in almost every way.\n\nWe heard that the rate of deselection was 25 percent.\n\nSo that meant, I guess in light of that, is that if either member of the couple didn't cut it, then the couple was out. Or I suppose you could offer a divorce at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I shouldn't laugh because you already said before we started the tape that there were three married couples at that time in your group, Peace Corps Costa Rica, and one of you is still married."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:20", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.019332742342847, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's how we ended up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You know, this question is not on the suggested list of questions, but was it difficult because you are a married couple being interviewed? Was it difficult as a married couple to get into the Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were told that it was possible that one of us would be accepted and the other one would not be.\n\nOh, really? I don't even remember that.\n\nI remember that. That only if both were accepted would they, I mean, one could not go as a non-Peace Corps volunteer. It was either both had to be accepted on their own or they would not accept the couple. So they were not going to accept one of them without the other, it had to be both. And each one on his or her own merit. So we knew that.\n\nWell, let's be fair, that is, that we were accepted for training. At least in those days, the training thing was this process of deselection. One of the things that made training a very unpleasant experience in almost every way.\n\nWe heard that the rate of deselection was 25 percent.\n\nSo that meant, I guess in light of that, is that if either member of the couple didn't cut it, then the couple was out. Or I suppose you could offer a divorce at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I shouldn't laugh because you already said before we started the tape that there were three married couples at that time in your group, Peace Corps Costa Rica, and one of you is still married."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we were told back then that the rate of divorce among Peace Corps volunteers who married was much higher than the average for the country. Fifty percent. At the time for the nation, it was like thirty percent.\n\nAnd I don't know if those are bogus statistics at all. I don't know where they really came from.\n\nSpecial situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:22", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.57703638038094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were told that it was possible that one of us would be accepted and the other one would not be.\n\nOh, really? I don't even remember that.\n\nI remember that. That only if both were accepted would they, I mean, one could not go as a non-Peace Corps volunteer. It was either both had to be accepted on their own or they would not accept the couple. So they were not going to accept one of them without the other, it had to be both. And each one on his or her own merit. So we knew that.\n\nWell, let's be fair, that is, that we were accepted for training. At least in those days, the training thing was this process of deselection. One of the things that made training a very unpleasant experience in almost every way.\n\nWe heard that the rate of deselection was 25 percent.\n\nSo that meant, I guess in light of that, is that if either member of the couple didn't cut it, then the couple was out. Or I suppose you could offer a divorce at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I shouldn't laugh because you already said before we started the tape that there were three married couples at that time in your group, Peace Corps Costa Rica, and one of you is still married."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we were told back then that the rate of divorce among Peace Corps volunteers who married was much higher than the average for the country. Fifty percent. At the time for the nation, it was like thirty percent.\n\nAnd I don't know if those are bogus statistics at all. I don't know where they really came from.\n\nSpecial situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For newly married couples, that extra stress often broke up marriages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Well, congratulations on still being married. OK, I'll let you, whoever wants to go first. Describe your present family, work, current residence, interests."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 28.418929311534377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we were told back then that the rate of divorce among Peace Corps volunteers who married was much higher than the average for the country. Fifty percent. At the time for the nation, it was like thirty percent.\n\nAnd I don't know if those are bogus statistics at all. I don't know where they really came from.\n\nSpecial situations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For newly married couples, that extra stress often broke up marriages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Well, congratulations on still being married. OK, I'll let you, whoever wants to go first. Describe your present family, work, current residence, interests."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, speaking for myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or you could speak for your family together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:62", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.387437698350196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I must have heard about it through the PBS. I don't know how else you could learn about it. I didn't know anyone personally who was a volunteer among the people I knew. Maybe there was something in college? I don't know. I do remember the ads for the Peace Corps, glass half full or half empty. I remember that one very well. And seeing people out there in Africa working with poor people. I was interested in doing something about poverty. I became socially concerned in high school, didn't get involved with political organizations, but knew about poverty. There were things going on in New York City, I mean, there was protest. Well, the civil rights movement was going on, and the Latin American connection was always there. In college, I went to Mexico one summer to improve my Spanish. And that opened up my eyes to another culture. So Latin America booming all the time, and we forgot to mention that our honeymoon was spent in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is ironic because that's where we returned for Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later, that was very ironic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:64", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.097152998166884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is ironic because that's where we returned for Peace Corps training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later, that was very ironic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of the Kennedy thing. And I followed every moment, you know, I used to read actively read the newspapers in those days. I probably remember something about the speech at University of Michigan, you know, and Sargent Shriver and later, as we can relate, we became we got to know the one who followed him, Jack Vaughn, he was the next director of the Peace Corps and we saw that connection. And so that, for me, I mean, I just knew about it, and I kind of from the moment I heard of it, I said, that's for me. I mean, I can solve the problem of hunger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The moment you heard about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.5523922201854266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Years later, that was very ironic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you hear about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of the Kennedy thing. And I followed every moment, you know, I used to read actively read the newspapers in those days. I probably remember something about the speech at University of Michigan, you know, and Sargent Shriver and later, as we can relate, we became we got to know the one who followed him, Jack Vaughn, he was the next director of the Peace Corps and we saw that connection. And so that, for me, I mean, I just knew about it, and I kind of from the moment I heard of it, I said, that's for me. I mean, I can solve the problem of hunger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The moment you heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was like, I said, this is what I want to do. I want to do this. I was like, that's me. And the reason I joined that Quaker thing was that I was, well, am I really sort of going to do this? I mean, am I suited for this? So for me, that was sort of a dry run for the summer to see whether I'd be willing to do that. You know, the three year treatments later on. It was working on it, I mean, it is certainly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I know another part of this question is did you have a specific country or project in mind? You already spoke about you were going to maybe go to Brazil."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.638398107250242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because of the Kennedy thing. And I followed every moment, you know, I used to read actively read the newspapers in those days. I probably remember something about the speech at University of Michigan, you know, and Sargent Shriver and later, as we can relate, we became we got to know the one who followed him, Jack Vaughn, he was the next director of the Peace Corps and we saw that connection. And so that, for me, I mean, I just knew about it, and I kind of from the moment I heard of it, I said, that's for me. I mean, I can solve the problem of hunger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The moment you heard about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was like, I said, this is what I want to do. I want to do this. I was like, that's me. And the reason I joined that Quaker thing was that I was, well, am I really sort of going to do this? I mean, am I suited for this? So for me, that was sort of a dry run for the summer to see whether I'd be willing to do that. You know, the three year treatments later on. It was working on it, I mean, it is certainly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I know another part of this question is did you have a specific country or project in mind? You already spoke about you were going to maybe go to Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't ask for Brazil. But we asked for Costa Rica simply because Mitch had met this Costa Rican graduate student in Florida. We had no knowledge of Costa Rica whatsoever, and Costa Rica was not a popular place to show up at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, like it is now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.300589895363644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, it was like, I said, this is what I want to do. I want to do this. I was like, that's me. And the reason I joined that Quaker thing was that I was, well, am I really sort of going to do this? I mean, am I suited for this? So for me, that was sort of a dry run for the summer to see whether I'd be willing to do that. You know, the three year treatments later on. It was working on it, I mean, it is certainly what I wanted to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I know another part of this question is did you have a specific country or project in mind? You already spoke about you were going to maybe go to Brazil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't ask for Brazil. But we asked for Costa Rica simply because Mitch had met this Costa Rican graduate student in Florida. We had no knowledge of Costa Rica whatsoever, and Costa Rica was not a popular place to show up at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, like it is now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty years later.\n\nWhere we ended up in Costa Rica in part had to do with that woman.\n\nYeah, we chose that region of Costa Rica to live in, had to do with her father's farm being in general area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Next question. What were your friends and family's reactions when you were accepted? Were there any and did you have any hesitations or reservations? How did they react?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:72", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.014526605437096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't ask for Brazil. But we asked for Costa Rica simply because Mitch had met this Costa Rican graduate student in Florida. We had no knowledge of Costa Rica whatsoever, and Costa Rica was not a popular place to show up at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, like it is now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Forty years later.\n\nWhere we ended up in Costa Rica in part had to do with that woman.\n\nYeah, we chose that region of Costa Rica to live in, had to do with her father's farm being in general area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Next question. What were your friends and family's reactions when you were accepted? Were there any and did you have any hesitations or reservations? How did they react?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think both of our sets of parents were terribly upset and, well, were very nervous, concerned, nervous, and like they're afraid that something would happen to us. You know, the dangers of being out there in the wild.\n\nAnd they were right in that since we were in an extremely remote area, I mean, we did have a health crisis. I mean, we're talking about days before we could get her medical help.\n\nSo there were hazards out there.\n\nThere were hazards so.\n\nVenomous snakes.\n\nYou know, fast forward to having children and having, boy, I'd be, a kid of mine went into the Peace Corps, I'd be damned scared.\n\nAnd our mothers actually visited us in the Peace Corps, in our Peace Corps site. And they did leave scared.\n\nAnd then they got really scared.\n\nThen they really got scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe they shouldn't have come. Oh no."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.073847495694492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think both of our sets of parents were terribly upset and, well, were very nervous, concerned, nervous, and like they're afraid that something would happen to us. You know, the dangers of being out there in the wild.\n\nAnd they were right in that since we were in an extremely remote area, I mean, we did have a health crisis. I mean, we're talking about days before we could get her medical help.\n\nSo there were hazards out there.\n\nThere were hazards so.\n\nVenomous snakes.\n\nYou know, fast forward to having children and having, boy, I'd be, a kid of mine went into the Peace Corps, I'd be damned scared.\n\nAnd our mothers actually visited us in the Peace Corps, in our Peace Corps site. And they did leave scared.\n\nAnd then they got really scared.\n\nThen they really got scared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe they shouldn't have come. Oh no."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can see that.\n\nThey saw the reality and they were even more scared.\n\nI think we should probably at that point talk about when the, in that period where the Peace Corps was going to take us in, there was this security clearance or background check rather. Background check is a better word. And that was fairly unpleasant part of the whole thing because the people who went around asking questions were Civil Service employees, but they presented themselves with the flipping of a card or a badge to neighbors in my mother's apartment building and your parents' apartment building. They didn't live more than two miles from each other in Brooklyn. And people thought it was Secret Service. And I think that I have the feeling that they wanted it to sound that way. And so of course, after they called, what is the Secret Service doing investigating Mitchie?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mitchie? I've been calling you Mitchell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, don't call him Mitchie.\n\nIn her case because her parents are not English speakers, they're immigrants to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What country are they from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.371587264890211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course people are eating rice and beans two times a day though, that's what they were living on. So the natural, the cultural process that led Costa Ricans to eat rice and beans together, was the same that the body needed to combine incomplete proteins to make a complete protein. I didn't have to tell them that, they're eating that anyway. And if they weren't eating whole proteins like fish and chicken and beef, it's because they couldn't afford it. It wasn't there. And if it was there, they couldn't afford to pay for it.\n\nJust now that I think about it, these weren't entirely random. That is to say, in the case, I think the men were trained in cooperatives. I think it may have been a gender division there, but that's because the Peace Corps itself had linked up within Costa Rica to the co-operative movement, which at that time was actually run partially out of the private sector by a bank in Costa Rica that ran these things. And the idea was that there were cooperatives all over Costa Rica, and the idea was to assign a volunteer to work with the cooperatives to help them with their accounting, their promotions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A co-operative that already existed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I don't know. I think the essence of the villages are out there probably were in parts selected, oh, there's a co-operative. In our case, there was a coffee co- operative, and it's a long important story about that. And the nutrition centers were another aspect of it. CARE had linked up with the Peace Corps to try to help the development of these centros de nutricion, which was to provide nutrition to the kids.\n\nCARE and USAID. AID provided plastic plates and kitchen utensils to use in the preparation of the food. CARE provided powdered milk, and I think CSM."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's CSM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CSM was a high protein.\n\nSoybean, corn starch, and milk. So corn was asked for soybean and with milk. So it was a composite of beating to make a higher protein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:114", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.458749709741001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I don't know. I think the essence of the villages are out there probably were in parts selected, oh, there's a co-operative. In our case, there was a coffee co- operative, and it's a long important story about that. And the nutrition centers were another aspect of it. CARE had linked up with the Peace Corps to try to help the development of these centros de nutricion, which was to provide nutrition to the kids.\n\nCARE and USAID. AID provided plastic plates and kitchen utensils to use in the preparation of the food. CARE provided powdered milk, and I think CSM."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's CSM?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "CSM was a high protein.\n\nSoybean, corn starch, and milk. So corn was asked for soybean and with milk. So it was a composite of beating to make a higher protein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an experiment. I mean, they were trying to see if they could improve the nutrition of, this is for preschool children and lactating mothers to help them. These nutrition programs were specifically targeting preschool children and lactating mothers because there were school lunch programs. That was something else. I think CARE did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did have school lunch programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.620833010823334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "CSM was a high protein.\n\nSoybean, corn starch, and milk. So corn was asked for soybean and with milk. So it was a composite of beating to make a higher protein."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've never heard of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an experiment. I mean, they were trying to see if they could improve the nutrition of, this is for preschool children and lactating mothers to help them. These nutrition programs were specifically targeting preschool children and lactating mothers because there were school lunch programs. That was something else. I think CARE did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did have school lunch programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were school lunch programs, that's what Mitch ended up doing. Vegetable gardening and school lunch program, but I worked with the nutrition center. In the first year, we were watching the building being built.\n\nAnd that's not just the garden, just to conclude the idea of the nutrition center. So the nutrition center. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Let me see. We're talking about the training. This question is more specific to it, but let's see if there's any of things you haven't talked about yet. Yeah, where the training was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.912036678692594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was an experiment. I mean, they were trying to see if they could improve the nutrition of, this is for preschool children and lactating mothers to help them. These nutrition programs were specifically targeting preschool children and lactating mothers because there were school lunch programs. That was something else. I think CARE did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They did have school lunch programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were school lunch programs, that's what Mitch ended up doing. Vegetable gardening and school lunch program, but I worked with the nutrition center. In the first year, we were watching the building being built.\n\nAnd that's not just the garden, just to conclude the idea of the nutrition center. So the nutrition center. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Let me see. We're talking about the training. This question is more specific to it, but let's see if there's any of things you haven't talked about yet. Yeah, where the training was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started about the nutrition center, I just wanted to get the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, go ahead. Sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:122", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.235596309658439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were school lunch programs, that's what Mitch ended up doing. Vegetable gardening and school lunch program, but I worked with the nutrition center. In the first year, we were watching the building being built.\n\nAnd that's not just the garden, just to conclude the idea of the nutrition center. So the nutrition center. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Let me see. We're talking about the training. This question is more specific to it, but let's see if there's any of things you haven't talked about yet. Yeah, where the training was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started about the nutrition center, I just wanted to get the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, go ahead. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nutrition center concept involving a tripartite agreement and the Ministry of Health provided this bacalao, which was a little pill that the kids got, which would be probably for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you say, bacalao?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.34024235760301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We started about the nutrition center, I just wanted to get the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, go ahead. Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nutrition center concept involving a tripartite agreement and the Ministry of Health provided this bacalao, which was a little pill that the kids got, which would be probably for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you say, bacalao?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's codfish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I've heard the word."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.822491508447788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The nutrition center concept involving a tripartite agreement and the Ministry of Health provided this bacalao, which was a little pill that the kids got, which would be probably for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you say, bacalao?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's codfish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I've heard the word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was their contribution. It was the milk and the CSM thing, and so the kids would get milk. They would get this high nutrition tortilla. And so I think in our case, since we were a couple, it was a perfect village that they put us in because there was a nutrition center in embryonic form that was going to be built. And there was this cooperative which supposedly had this problem that I was going to come in and fix.\n\nAnd let me explain about the nutrition center, because they had something in the United States called Nutrition Center, which are stores that sell vitamins. The problem was malnutrition among children and also lactating mothers. Malnutrition was measured by weight for height. That was the way you measured malnutrition back then. I don't know if it's changed any since then. So they would have all the little preschool kids that they had to be five and under. And they come into this place to be weighed and measured for height. And based on that, they were put into categories and either not malnourished. Or first degree, second degree, and third degree malnutrition, third being the worst. Third degree, when we see these pictures today of the children in Africa where they're emaciated and you can see their skeleton is shown, that's third degree. But there are these three degrees and each. If you were even first degree malnourished, you have the right to the nutrition center food. And we were trying to get the women who are nursing and their babies to come in and also drink milk and have this high protein food so that they would give better milk to their babies and they'd be better nourished themselves."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the powdered milk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.036262015619243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, powdered milk, CARE powdered milk. So that was the mission of the nutrition center. And also, I saw it as a way of keeping hygiene. It was one of the few places in the entire town that had indoor running water, a sink, a little sink for children, and a toilet to flush. None of these children had ever seen a flushing toilet and none had running water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they have latrines or just go out into el campo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the poor did not have latrines and would go out and what came out of them went down the river, got into the river, and they'd drink the river water. The whole cycle of amoebas and all kinds of parasites.\n\nWe've jumped the gun because here we are in the field already in the Peace Corps. The training then I think had a logic to it. And the assumption that was made is that the cooperatives were having problems because the people just didn't know how to run them right. Or couldn't get the accounting right. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When were these cooperatives formed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooperatives began in Costa Rica in the '50s, and it has had a very, very successful actually. The first cooperative, which was started in Costa Rica in 1942 during World War II because they confiscated property that was owned by German families when Costa Rica declared war on Germany, some allege for the United States. And they turned this property over to their peasants who were working there to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get away from the German families?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 13.373624461799162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the poor did not have latrines and would go out and what came out of them went down the river, got into the river, and they'd drink the river water. The whole cycle of amoebas and all kinds of parasites.\n\nWe've jumped the gun because here we are in the field already in the Peace Corps. The training then I think had a logic to it. And the assumption that was made is that the cooperatives were having problems because the people just didn't know how to run them right. Or couldn't get the accounting right. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When were these cooperatives formed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooperatives began in Costa Rica in the '50s, and it has had a very, very successful actually. The first cooperative, which was started in Costa Rica in 1942 during World War II because they confiscated property that was owned by German families when Costa Rica declared war on Germany, some allege for the United States. And they turned this property over to their peasants who were working there to do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To get away from the German families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were stealing, they were taking, they were stealing the property. They were taking away the property from Germans who in some cases lived in Costa Rica for generations. But that was part of the nature of exercise with the internment of the Japanese in the United States. And the bank ran and this co-operative movement became very, very successful throughout the country with this thing called Dos Pinos, which is a dairy cooperative. And throughout Central America and many parts of Latin America, Costa Rican products, milk, ice cream, yogurt are sold. And there's another cooperative called Victoria, Victoria from the war victory, which made sugar, the first refined sugar in Costa Rica. And so but this is now a whole generation later, and there are many cooperatives, savings and loans, and I'm trained in this. The training was boring, miserable. I don't know how much I learned. Accounting to me is, you know, I guess if I had to be accountant, I would think about, you know, the suicide. I know, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, any of you accountants who are listening."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.905728740817898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "SNA, the Sistema Nacional de Aguas Subterráneas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. It's a Costa Rican acronym."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so what we did was to try to connect villagers and their project to resources outside the town. During the time we were there, the water system was not filled, but the design was done. And eventually the water system came in. So it's not that we brought the new water source. We connected resources to make it possible for there eventually to be a potable water system, which is there to this day.\n\nWe got involved in all kinds of health-related activities. For example, there was no, when we came to this county, there was no doctor in the entire county, for how many thousands of people?\n\nTwenty thousand people living there.\n\nAnd no doctor. There were, the only medical staff there for all those people were two nurses. One was a British volunteer nurse, sort of like Britain's Peace Corps. She was an obstetrics nurse. And there was an American nun who was also an obstetrics nurse, and the two of them did all the medical. They ran a clinic. They were the only trained medical people for the entire county. And they specialized in delivering babies. And yeah, that was it. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two nurses for 20,000 people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the community, they heard, there was we'd heard, a unidad mobile, a mobile unit of medical personnel that went around the countryside and would visit any given town once every maybe once a month, something like that. So doctors would come in in a jeep, one doctor, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the government?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.82754386812063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the community, they heard, there was we'd heard, a unidad mobile, a mobile unit of medical personnel that went around the countryside and would visit any given town once every maybe once a month, something like that. So doctors would come in in a jeep, one doctor, and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From the government?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was a government sponsored program. The doctor, the unidad mobile, would arrive, I think, was maybe just once a month, and would dispense medicines. This was called medicina empírica, empirical medicine. In other words, you had no medical history for these people. People would show up sick, women would come with their children from the mountain side, they would have walked hours. And the doctor would give out antibiotics or something, I don't know what, whatever he had. Every medicine that he gave out had been, I believe, donated from other countries and we heard it was expired medications that no longer could be sold on the market."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it could be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what we heard. Unidad mobile, was that what they were fighting for? They were fighting for a big stuff.\n\nThe unidad mobile existed already. Can you explain what that product was?\n\nYeah, that the doctor would out once a month maybe.\n\nUnidad mobile was a CARE and the Ministry of Health. In those days, the Ministry of Health took care of public health. It wasn't like it is today. So the Ministry of Health provided the physician and the pharmacist and the nurse and the driver, actually, with the pharmacy dispensary and the public health educator. CARE, I'm sorry, USAID provided the jeeps, which were American jeeps. And the key element was that in order to get one of these things, the community had to organize, get itself together, and charge each patient a token fee. It was essentially a colon or some tiny amount of money, which was couldn't, wasn't going to them, was going to go to the community for community development purposes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was going to the community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.799099956269725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a magical formula. The community couldn't get the health service until they organize themselves, A. B, they agreed to charge every patient. But the money stayed there for the purpose of building a community center, which is how the whole nutrition center. We can describe how that happened.\n\nSo the committee, the comité de bienestar comunal, and that was community welfare committee. They were the leaders of the community. This was like maybe a group of five or six people. President, vice president, secretary. And two others. And they would meet on a regular basis, and we were involved with them, they invited us and we attended all those meetings and they tapped our resources. They wanted us to get involved and they wanted us to get connected to help them in their struggles. And this is what they ended up doing. So when they went to the municipality in the county seat, which was San Vito de Java. We would go along to the municipality meetings and sit there as the community leaders would beg and plead for a doctor to be sent to the county. And eventually they did get a fixed doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, I don't know if we ever did state this. What was the name of the community you were assigned to in Costa Rica?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Agua Buena de Coto Brus. Coto Brus is the canton. It was a new canton, new county, that had been founded only a few years before, split away from Golfito, which is where the United Fruit Company had its central operations, and therefore it was a brand-new municipality. And I mentioned earlier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you by the coast? Because you mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a coffee growing area up in the mountains, a thousand meters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the nearest large town or city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.887888840299693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Agua Buena de Coto Brus. Coto Brus is the canton. It was a new canton, new county, that had been founded only a few years before, split away from Golfito, which is where the United Fruit Company had its central operations, and therefore it was a brand-new municipality. And I mentioned earlier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you by the coast? Because you mentioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a coffee growing area up in the mountains, a thousand meters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the nearest large town or city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Isidro de El General, which was about five hours away. We were very, very isolated. The only way to get from our village out there was to go down to sea level and cross the river, which had no bridge. And during the rainy season, this is an area which got storms from both the Atlantic and the Pacific side. So it had an average of 15 feet of rainfall a year, which is about the highest of any place on the planet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, started laughing. Fifteen feet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.449556876999936, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Isidro de El General, which was about five hours away. We were very, very isolated. The only way to get from our village out there was to go down to sea level and cross the river, which had no bridge. And during the rainy season, this is an area which got storms from both the Atlantic and the Pacific side. So it had an average of 15 feet of rainfall a year, which is about the highest of any place on the planet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, started laughing. Fifteen feet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think there's any place higher than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rainforest country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was deep rainforest all around, and when the rains fell, which was throughout about nine months out of the year, the river was impassable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, nine months of the year, you said?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.277285418888818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think there's any place higher than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rainforest country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was deep rainforest all around, and when the rains fell, which was throughout about nine months out of the year, the river was impassable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, nine months of the year, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nine months. There was only a very short January, February, March was the only dry season. Even that period would rain. During the rest of it when the rains got really vicious in September and October, you couldn't leave. No. That's when you got sick. And that's when we, you know, we couldn't cross. And you can tell that story.\n\nIt was like in India, where you, um.\n\nLike monsoons.\n\nMonsoon. It would be days and days of nonstop pouring rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've been, well as an aside."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.196983798765352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was deep rainforest all around, and when the rains fell, which was throughout about nine months out of the year, the river was impassable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry, nine months of the year, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nine months. There was only a very short January, February, March was the only dry season. Even that period would rain. During the rest of it when the rains got really vicious in September and October, you couldn't leave. No. That's when you got sick. And that's when we, you know, we couldn't cross. And you can tell that story.\n\nIt was like in India, where you, um.\n\nLike monsoons.\n\nMonsoon. It would be days and days of nonstop pouring rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've been, well as an aside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Honduras you had?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Costa Rica. [tape break] OK, now you can continue."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.338643192753167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nine months. There was only a very short January, February, March was the only dry season. Even that period would rain. During the rest of it when the rains got really vicious in September and October, you couldn't leave. No. That's when you got sick. And that's when we, you know, we couldn't cross. And you can tell that story.\n\nIt was like in India, where you, um.\n\nLike monsoons.\n\nMonsoon. It would be days and days of nonstop pouring rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I've been, well as an aside."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Honduras you had?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Costa Rica. [tape break] OK, now you can continue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What was key here is that when I said this set me on my entire career. We were seeing was the ability of impoverished villagers in the middle of nowhere as it was to organize themselves. We didn't come in and say, get organized. They had already established this committee. The committee was established with the enormously intelligent logic of setting up this welfare committee, the comité de bienestar comunal, so that they could tap into this resource, namely a visiting doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they request a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.905213186421348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I'd like to talk about language because I think it played an important role in our effectiveness. I came into the Peace Corps speaking Spanish fluently because I'd been a Spanish major in college. I spent a summer in Mexico. I had no trouble understanding Costa Ricans speaking Spanish whatsoever. I did have trouble in Puerto Rico in training because I'd never heard that dialect of Spanish, the Caribbean dialect, where they don't pronounce their S's at the end of syllables. Instead of saying esta es la casa de Bonita, they would say, esta es la casa de Bonita, where they aspirate their S's or just delete them completely taken off. And so I had trouble understanding Puerto Ricans for the first six weeks until one day, like magic overnight, I suddenly understood the Puerto Ricans around me. It was like a crystallization of the brain, you know? But the pattern has set in my brain unconsciously. But I haven't studied the dialectology of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the word you just used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Crystallization?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dialectology? I hadn't studied dialectology at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, about dialects. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.413843440026356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dialectology? I hadn't studied dialectology at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, about dialects. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn't studied dialects, right. And I had to on my own figure out Puerto Rican Spanish without anyone telling me, without reading a book about it. And one day I suddenly understood people. I had no trouble in Costa Rica because they don't do that in Costa Rica. They speak with all the S's, and it's a very easy dialect in Spanish to understand. When I came there, I was speaking Spanish of the type I learned in college, so I was using grammatical forms of the subjunctive, for example, that Costa Ricans were not using very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The subjunctive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that way. Yeah, I mean, they were using the subjunctive in the less standard way. I was thinking more standardly than they were in many ways. The book Spanish, educated Spanish. So they would say, oh, you speak Spanish better than we do, which is ridiculous because I didn't. I mean, it was because they thought just because I was using the standard grammatical form and I'd studied vocabulary items that they didn't have. I sounded educated that I spoke better than they did it. So they had a great impression of my ability to speak Spanish. I could speak clearly, understandably. I could communicate well from the very beginning. And that impressed the leadership, especially this one man who was the richest man in the, oh sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll stop it one minute. OK, we were talking about your Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.03125106272139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I understood everyone. I could communicate with the people I talk to well. And I had no, I had no problems whatsoever understanding. And they understood me. So I think that was really important. However, the cultural meanings behind what they were saying, that took me years to understand. And I give these examples to my classes. When we had friends over for cafe in the afternoon, coffee and cake or something and we'd say, would you like coffee? And the answer would be, no me importa. I don't care. Which in America sounds like I'm not very enthusiastic, which sounds like I don't really care. I'll take it or leave it. And they would say that all the time. They'd always say, no me importa. Me da igual. It's all the same to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but after a while, I realized they really wanted that very much. They wanted to have coffee and cake with us. But that was the polite way of saying yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And in the coastal and countryside among peasants, that's the way you accepted an offer politely. You didn't say, oh, I would love to. No one ever said that. So I just learned, it grated on me terribly, but I learned to understand it. That's the polite way of accepting an invitation to have tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that take you to grasp that, a year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.804013657680727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And but after a while, I realized they really wanted that very much. They wanted to have coffee and cake with us. But that was the polite way of saying yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And in the coastal and countryside among peasants, that's the way you accepted an offer politely. You didn't say, oh, I would love to. No one ever said that. So I just learned, it grated on me terribly, but I learned to understand it. That's the polite way of accepting an invitation to have tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did that take you to grasp that, a year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year. There was another thing if you ask people, do you want the dark meat or the white meat of chicken? That was a real delicacy. The chicken was really expensive, not to be found. They'd have to kill their own chickens. And they didn't because they wanted the eggs. And they would never tell you which one they prefer. They just would not say because it was rude to express a preference.\n\nIn my case, my Spanish, I'm a lousy language student, although I eventually became fluent in Spanish. And I had this experience that I mentioned, the summers in which I learned very little, my Spanish in Mexico the first time. Tú eres? And I said, tú eren? And I couldn't get it. I mean, it's simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't say, usted es or something like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6975356791536487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year. There was another thing if you ask people, do you want the dark meat or the white meat of chicken? That was a real delicacy. The chicken was really expensive, not to be found. They'd have to kill their own chickens. And they didn't because they wanted the eggs. And they would never tell you which one they prefer. They just would not say because it was rude to express a preference.\n\nIn my case, my Spanish, I'm a lousy language student, although I eventually became fluent in Spanish. And I had this experience that I mentioned, the summers in which I learned very little, my Spanish in Mexico the first time. Tú eres? And I said, tú eren? And I couldn't get it. I mean, it's simple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't say, usted es or something like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn't tell her what eres means.\n\nBut our closest friend in the Peace Corps, Francisco Mehia, rest in peace, came to our house virtually every afternoon around 4:00 or 5:00, generally in the rain, because it was almost always raining. And sat there across the table, asked me for coffee, he would say, no me importa, and she would serve him coffee, and we would have, you know, some bread or whatever we have. And he was my window into Costa Rican life, telling me all about the Costa Rican civil war and politics in the country and the agrarian reform struggles and the land struggles. I intensely wanted to learn that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by listening to him, because he spoke a very, very clear Spanish and was very patient and very slow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What a gift, I have to say that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.946933840877776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we got him tilapia.\n\nThis is part of the nutrition part. Yeah, we found that the tilapia was a super high protein fish that was very easy to raise. We started with him as the perfect sample.\n\nWe had a pond and we seeded it with tilapia. And I bought a pH kit so we could measure the acidity of the water because it had to be the right way. We put lime in to get it right. We have wonderful photographs of planning and stuff, and all the villagers came around to see the tilapia ponds.\n\nWe'd try to fish the fish out on Good Friday. So they could have, because that was a custom to eat fish on Good Friday. But they couldn't, they didn't have a net to fish it out with. So they use coffee sacks.\n\nNo, they used tarps for the top of the trucks. But now we know why nets have holes in them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You put a tarp and it sits there, and when it goes down, the fish all went away. You know, I realized all the like. We never knew, we lived in New York. We didn't know what bridges did, I mean, they were there. Until we lived in a place where there was a river but no bridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, then it hits home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now there is a bridge, but we didn't know why. You know, what was the deal with bridges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you, do you think, to be able to converse in Spanish then, Mitch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6706911397500352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You put a tarp and it sits there, and when it goes down, the fish all went away. You know, I realized all the like. We never knew, we lived in New York. We didn't know what bridges did, I mean, they were there. Until we lived in a place where there was a river but no bridge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, then it hits home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now there is a bridge, but we didn't know why. You know, what was the deal with bridges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you, do you think, to be able to converse in Spanish then, Mitch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't give you a time, it's just that the combination of that. The mail came to the town three times a week when the little aviamento landed in the coffee cooperative and brought in all mail along with the newspaper. I used to joke, I said if there's a nuclear war and the world gets destructed, three days later, we'll read about it in the newspaper.\n\nWe were the few people getting newspapers in the town.\n\nAnd so I read every word.\n\nI didn't read the paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you understand it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9674345997222615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now there is a bridge, but we didn't know why. You know, what was the deal with bridges?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you, do you think, to be able to converse in Spanish then, Mitch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't give you a time, it's just that the combination of that. The mail came to the town three times a week when the little aviamento landed in the coffee cooperative and brought in all mail along with the newspaper. I used to joke, I said if there's a nuclear war and the world gets destructed, three days later, we'll read about it in the newspaper.\n\nWe were the few people getting newspapers in the town.\n\nAnd so I read every word.\n\nI didn't read the paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you understand it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the point is that little, it was so easy, because there were the events going on and I could fill in the blanks. And little by little, that's why I developed a really good vocabulary because I was reading all the stuff.\n\nWe had a shortwave radio. So he was being tuned into the news and reading it in Spanish. You know, he could.\n\nFigure out what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you were alone in your house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:302", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.281892326241361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the point is that little, it was so easy, because there were the events going on and I could fill in the blanks. And little by little, that's why I developed a really good vocabulary because I was reading all the stuff.\n\nWe had a shortwave radio. So he was being tuned into the news and reading it in Spanish. You know, he could.\n\nFigure out what was happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, when you were alone in your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him with his Spanish, Sue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:306", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.817151020051063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him with his Spanish, Sue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was my voice into the community originally because I didn't know what was going on. In addition to the daily discussions with him, we intended many meetings, sometimes several a week with the community development association, the welfare folks.\n\nBelieve me, it went on for hours.\n\nI didn't understand what was going on. I had a terrible headache.\n\nI had a headache, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you understood, I'm guessing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:308", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.047548119266416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you help him with his Spanish, Sue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was my voice into the community originally because I didn't know what was going on. In addition to the daily discussions with him, we intended many meetings, sometimes several a week with the community development association, the welfare folks.\n\nBelieve me, it went on for hours.\n\nI didn't understand what was going on. I had a terrible headache.\n\nI had a headache, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you understood, I'm guessing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I understood but I had a headache from concentrating so much on what people were saying. I mean, there was stuff, contextual stuff I didn't understand. I don't know what they were talking about.\n\nBut then actually, as I began to learn and so what was happening is that is that you ask about the couples on all fronts with the constant overlapping. So it was a construction of nutrition center, which allows the nutrition center to get built and nutrition programs open. But it gave Susie the idea of the kindergarten. Where are we going to get a classroom? Here it was. There was this building, with a floor, a roof, sinks, everything, used for half hour a day for the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The nutrition center, only half an hour a day?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.524789617617577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were no rural kindergartens. All the kindergartens were around the capital city and the largest, the county seat of the areas around the capital, but no rural area had a kindergarten.\n\nOf course, as soon as our village got it, the county seat wanted one.\n\nThey were jealous.\n\nWhat is this?\n\nHow come you have a kindergarten? They imitated us. It started spreading.\n\nAnd before you know it, everyone was getting it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once they saw that you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys were movers and shakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a tangible kind of thing, we felt as well. We brought something to this town and it continued and it was never taken away as far as we know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm jealous, anyway, but I wanted to just to. We talked about this when the tape was off. As a married couple, I asked, do you think you would have accomplished that the same amount that you have or been able to like Mitch with your, I can say poorer Spanish, would you would you have been able to accomplish this if you had gone by individually?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:332", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.249766241797308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Once they saw that you could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You guys were movers and shakers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a tangible kind of thing, we felt as well. We brought something to this town and it continued and it was never taken away as far as we know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm jealous, anyway, but I wanted to just to. We talked about this when the tape was off. As a married couple, I asked, do you think you would have accomplished that the same amount that you have or been able to like Mitch with your, I can say poorer Spanish, would you would you have been able to accomplish this if you had gone by individually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, doubt it.\n\nNo. We were accepted as a couple, which is important. There was no issue like I was looking for young girls to marry. That was over. We were doing our thing and we were accepted by the elders of the community.\n\nYeah, they really appreciated, we felt appreciated by them. We felt that they understood that we were working hard for them and the community. That we were really doing everything we possibly could to help the community. We felt that they had the same trust as we had for them. They also knew how much we respected them, the mutual respect for each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you a question only because your Spanish is, he said, it was more perfect I'll say."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:334", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.05529582421923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a tangible kind of thing, we felt as well. We brought something to this town and it continued and it was never taken away as far as we know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm jealous, anyway, but I wanted to just to. We talked about this when the tape was off. As a married couple, I asked, do you think you would have accomplished that the same amount that you have or been able to like Mitch with your, I can say poorer Spanish, would you would you have been able to accomplish this if you had gone by individually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, doubt it.\n\nNo. We were accepted as a couple, which is important. There was no issue like I was looking for young girls to marry. That was over. We were doing our thing and we were accepted by the elders of the community.\n\nYeah, they really appreciated, we felt appreciated by them. We felt that they understood that we were working hard for them and the community. That we were really doing everything we possibly could to help the community. We felt that they had the same trust as we had for them. They also knew how much we respected them, the mutual respect for each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you a question only because your Spanish is, he said, it was more perfect I'll say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you are very fluent, OK? I'll rephrase that. If you had gone as a single woman, I'm sort of beating a dead horse I suppose with this, because I was a single woman in Honduras. Do you think you could have accomplished some of this? Most of this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:336", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.950328693576923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, doubt it.\n\nNo. We were accepted as a couple, which is important. There was no issue like I was looking for young girls to marry. That was over. We were doing our thing and we were accepted by the elders of the community.\n\nYeah, they really appreciated, we felt appreciated by them. We felt that they understood that we were working hard for them and the community. That we were really doing everything we possibly could to help the community. We felt that they had the same trust as we had for them. They also knew how much we respected them, the mutual respect for each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to ask you a question only because your Spanish is, he said, it was more perfect I'll say."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't perfect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you are very fluent, OK? I'll rephrase that. If you had gone as a single woman, I'm sort of beating a dead horse I suppose with this, because I was a single woman in Honduras. Do you think you could have accomplished some of this? Most of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you were fluent."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.849534229383513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, telling them how this resource."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A high school teacher? Oh, he was rich. I'm sorry. I had to interject that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He owned all the land and sold off parts of it to other people.\n\nHis son went to West Point. Little connections. And yet when he saw this as the resource around which the entire community pivoted, the community development center, this thing was all related to having this doctor come providing the resources. If you take this away from us, they're stripping the community of its form. And they won. The ministry reversed its policy and put back the unidad mobile.\n\nYeah, but eventually, in the two years they sent a sixth doctor, a permanent doctor to live, who worked in the clinic. Remember the guy who failed his exams?\n\nYeah, but he, no, he was. He was seen to be a doctor with the British Peace Corps at a hospital in Sao Vito. But he lived in Agua Buena.\n\nRight. But he was going to be in one. He wasn't going to be unidad mobile.\n\nWell, what happened eventually in Costa Rica is that health services became much more common and they established what we call puestos de salud. And eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. There was, can I interrupt, was there a Ministry of Health of some sort?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.832815810426126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He owned all the land and sold off parts of it to other people.\n\nHis son went to West Point. Little connections. And yet when he saw this as the resource around which the entire community pivoted, the community development center, this thing was all related to having this doctor come providing the resources. If you take this away from us, they're stripping the community of its form. And they won. The ministry reversed its policy and put back the unidad mobile.\n\nYeah, but eventually, in the two years they sent a sixth doctor, a permanent doctor to live, who worked in the clinic. Remember the guy who failed his exams?\n\nYeah, but he, no, he was. He was seen to be a doctor with the British Peace Corps at a hospital in Sao Vito. But he lived in Agua Buena.\n\nRight. But he was going to be in one. He wasn't going to be unidad mobile.\n\nWell, what happened eventually in Costa Rica is that health services became much more common and they established what we call puestos de salud. And eventually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did that happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. There was, can I interrupt, was there a Ministry of Health of some sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't have clinics in a lot of rural areas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:376", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.615021811349072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Ministry of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't have clinics in a lot of rural areas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not then. Not yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social security became universalized in Costa Rica, and the Social Security started opening hospitals, including a hospital in the county seat in San Vito, with these little puestos de salud.\n\nThat was years later.\n\nYears later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess what year maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:378", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.905579790387858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not then. Not yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social security became universalized in Costa Rica, and the Social Security started opening hospitals, including a hospital in the county seat in San Vito, with these little puestos de salud.\n\nThat was years later.\n\nYears later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess what year maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, this is all when you get into the late '70s and maybe the hospital was opened in the early '80s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm just curious because of my health background."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:380", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.241456531343033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Social security became universalized in Costa Rica, and the Social Security started opening hospitals, including a hospital in the county seat in San Vito, with these little puestos de salud.\n\nThat was years later.\n\nYears later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you guess what year maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, this is all when you get into the late '70s and maybe the hospital was opened in the early '80s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm just curious because of my health background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this one doctor who was finally sent to the county because the rich man Ernesto offered him free housing, that's why he chose to live in Agua Buena, instead of the county seat, which had all the stores and the better food and everything. So he was a young guy with a young wife. His wife was about 24 and he was about 28 or something. He'd gotten his medical degree in Mexico because apparently he could not get into a Costa Rican medical school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was Costa Rican?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:384", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.322785841164237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, this is all when you get into the late '70s and maybe the hospital was opened in the early '80s."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm just curious because of my health background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But this one doctor who was finally sent to the county because the rich man Ernesto offered him free housing, that's why he chose to live in Agua Buena, instead of the county seat, which had all the stores and the better food and everything. So he was a young guy with a young wife. His wife was about 24 and he was about 28 or something. He'd gotten his medical degree in Mexico because apparently he could not get into a Costa Rican medical school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he was Costa Rican?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was Costa Rican. And within a couple of months, he moved to the county seat, he didn't want to live in our town. So everyone was so disenchanted with him. The doctor living in our little town, you know? The problem was that we had all, we would receive free medicines from Germany, and he couldn't read English and he couldn't read German. He would ask me to tell him what the label said on the medicine in front of the. I was trying to translate. My German was not good enough. The English, I could tell him. But he knew neither English or German, that's what he was giving out.\n\nBut years later, then electricity came, water came, telephones came, doctors, you know? That's all what happened in this little village, which was in the middle of nowhere, eventually became. A bridge was built. Bus service came in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were the early settlers? You said it wasn't begun until '41. Were they Costa Ricans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.400360230325163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was World War II that did it. In World War II, the United States was trying to find, make a land route to the Panama Canal because there was a concern that there was German small airline companies around that were going to bomb the canal and put it out of existence, which would have crippled the war in the Pacific. So they drove, the idea was to drive the Panamanian highway down to the Panama Canal, and this village was on the initial route, later it was changed, to go through there. And we saw a penetration road was built from the coast up to this area, and this area was where the road was supposed to go. There it was, the road. And with the road came the people. And the road was built by a company called Wanderlust, based in St. Louis, Missouri.\n\nAnd there were kids with American names, little kids called Roosevelt with blond hair, the product of, you know, this company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the war ended, that literally the day that the war ended, the construction stopped, the machinery was left to rot there on the ground. That was the end of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the people stayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people stayed. But now there was a penetration road up there, there was a way of getting in. And then at the end of the war, this group of, we assume, from Mussolini, the Italians set up an Italian colony in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that county seat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:394", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.33373358925018, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the war ended, that literally the day that the war ended, the construction stopped, the machinery was left to rot there on the ground. That was the end of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the people stayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people stayed. But now there was a penetration road up there, there was a way of getting in. And then at the end of the war, this group of, we assume, from Mussolini, the Italians set up an Italian colony in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that county seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Vito de Java, yeah. San Vito was named after this Italian, Vito Sansonetti.\n\nAnd so they created this thing, which to be a diversified farm. Most of the colony failed, mostly Italians went back to Italy. A small number of Italian restaurants are there and a small number of the bakers who would send us the bread.\n\nThe baker's son became a diputado, a member of the Legislature.\n\nThat's a whole other story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've got a lot of stories. Um, I think, anything before I talk about like the end of your two-year experience, anything else you want to add about your projects? You've spoken a lot about them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:396", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.8597168576820007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people stayed. But now there was a penetration road up there, there was a way of getting in. And then at the end of the war, this group of, we assume, from Mussolini, the Italians set up an Italian colony in Costa Rica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that county seat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Vito de Java, yeah. San Vito was named after this Italian, Vito Sansonetti.\n\nAnd so they created this thing, which to be a diversified farm. Most of the colony failed, mostly Italians went back to Italy. A small number of Italian restaurants are there and a small number of the bakers who would send us the bread.\n\nThe baker's son became a diputado, a member of the Legislature.\n\nThat's a whole other story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've got a lot of stories. Um, I think, anything before I talk about like the end of your two-year experience, anything else you want to add about your projects? You've spoken a lot about them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were so many other people. There was an American who lived out there on the border with Panama, and Darryl Cole. They used to tell there was a guy called Darren Cole. And he lived there. He had come out during the Korean War, I think, as a protest against the war and lived out there his whole life, married, and create his own organic farm along the border."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away were you from the Panamanian border?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:398", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.149446828366273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "San Vito de Java, yeah. San Vito was named after this Italian, Vito Sansonetti.\n\nAnd so they created this thing, which to be a diversified farm. Most of the colony failed, mostly Italians went back to Italy. A small number of Italian restaurants are there and a small number of the bakers who would send us the bread.\n\nThe baker's son became a diputado, a member of the Legislature.\n\nThat's a whole other story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've got a lot of stories. Um, I think, anything before I talk about like the end of your two-year experience, anything else you want to add about your projects? You've spoken a lot about them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were so many other people. There was an American who lived out there on the border with Panama, and Darryl Cole. They used to tell there was a guy called Darren Cole. And he lived there. He had come out during the Korean War, I think, as a protest against the war and lived out there his whole life, married, and create his own organic farm along the border."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away were you from the Panamanian border?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 minutes on foot?\n\nIt was about two miles, two or three mile walk from our thing to the Panamanian border. It was right there. It was an area of border dispute. It was an area where the coup occurred in Panama, there were all kinds of people going across the border and some shooting pains in that area.\n\nWe would go there, there were a couple of stores there that sold important stuff, imported Cadbury chocolate bars, Campbell's soup cans, and cheese and, yeah, this is what saved their lives. We became vegetarians in Peace Corps for lack of meat around the thing, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Are you vegetarian still?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.800254272772859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "30 minutes on foot?\n\nIt was about two miles, two or three mile walk from our thing to the Panamanian border. It was right there. It was an area of border dispute. It was an area where the coup occurred in Panama, there were all kinds of people going across the border and some shooting pains in that area.\n\nWe would go there, there were a couple of stores there that sold important stuff, imported Cadbury chocolate bars, Campbell's soup cans, and cheese and, yeah, this is what saved their lives. We became vegetarians in Peace Corps for lack of meat around the thing, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Are you vegetarian still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We became vegetarians again when our daughter became a vegetarian in high school. It was then we dropped that, but there was no meat. There was a butcher who would kill a cow. Display the live cow before he killed it. The live cow looked diseased, you know, the ribs showing. We wouldn't go near the things that he used to kill. Then he ran off into the mountains and disappeared, so that was the end of the butcher shop in town.\n\nWell, that story and he had a dog, a hunting dog, who used to come to our house.\n\nWe would feed his dog baloney, mortadella.\n\nAnd then the dog became very sad, like the head down at one point. And I tried to feed her and put my hand in her mouth, and she wouldn't eat. When she disappeared, we learned that there was a rabies epidemic in the area, but it was dumb rabies where they, instead of being angry, they do this.\n\nThey get lockjaw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never heard of that. I mean, I've heard of rabies. But dumb rabies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They don't get angry. They don't bite.\n\nThey just think that like this. And so the dog was caught by our friends and they cut off the dog's head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the rabies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.350143035353716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We became vegetarians again when our daughter became a vegetarian in high school. It was then we dropped that, but there was no meat. There was a butcher who would kill a cow. Display the live cow before he killed it. The live cow looked diseased, you know, the ribs showing. We wouldn't go near the things that he used to kill. Then he ran off into the mountains and disappeared, so that was the end of the butcher shop in town.\n\nWell, that story and he had a dog, a hunting dog, who used to come to our house.\n\nWe would feed his dog baloney, mortadella.\n\nAnd then the dog became very sad, like the head down at one point. And I tried to feed her and put my hand in her mouth, and she wouldn't eat. When she disappeared, we learned that there was a rabies epidemic in the area, but it was dumb rabies where they, instead of being angry, they do this.\n\nThey get lockjaw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never heard of that. I mean, I've heard of rabies. But dumb rabies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They don't get angry. They don't bite.\n\nThey just think that like this. And so the dog was caught by our friends and they cut off the dog's head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the rabies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to bring to the capital and have it tested.\n\nThey put it into a paint can, and the Peace Corps doctor told us, you have to get in because this thing is filled with nódulos negros."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.15150700708774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They don't get angry. They don't bite.\n\nThey just think that like this. And so the dog was caught by our friends and they cut off the dog's head."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because of the rabies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to bring to the capital and have it tested.\n\nThey put it into a paint can, and the Peace Corps doctor told us, you have to get in because this thing is filled with nódulos negros."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nódulos negros.\n\nNodules, black nodules.\n\nAnd so we came in and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got rabies shots?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:418", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.438281216855609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to bring to the capital and have it tested.\n\nThey put it into a paint can, and the Peace Corps doctor told us, you have to get in because this thing is filled with nódulos negros."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Say it again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nódulos negros.\n\nNodules, black nodules.\n\nAnd so we came in and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got rabies shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day. Every single day, I ended up with 25 shots.\n\nI had 11.\n\nThey were they were subcutaneous, very, very painful in those days. But nowadays it's much like three shots or something. And we didn't want to. The problem was, he said, that if you don't take the vaccine, you're going to die. And if you do take the vaccine, you may die from the vaccine because.\n\nOr paralyze you and you die from the paralysis.\n\nThey took our blood and sent it to the Center for Disease Control, and after the tenth shot, we still didn't have high enough titers.\n\nThey had just created the duck embryo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what I think I had in Honduras, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.93142357428401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nódulos negros.\n\nNodules, black nodules.\n\nAnd so we came in and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Got rabies shots?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every day. Every single day, I ended up with 25 shots.\n\nI had 11.\n\nThey were they were subcutaneous, very, very painful in those days. But nowadays it's much like three shots or something. And we didn't want to. The problem was, he said, that if you don't take the vaccine, you're going to die. And if you do take the vaccine, you may die from the vaccine because.\n\nOr paralyze you and you die from the paralysis.\n\nThey took our blood and sent it to the Center for Disease Control, and after the tenth shot, we still didn't have high enough titers.\n\nThey had just created the duck embryo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what I think I had in Honduras, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As opposed to the horse embryo.\n\nThat was over in time and it was just kind of a scary.\n\nOn the border, so we were vegetarians because we had no refrigerator. And so I was like, no. The two little stores that sell food, they were called pulperias. The woman would have maybe three or four eggs for sale each day. And I didn't want to buy all of them because I knew other people wanted them too, so I'd buy like two eggs a day sometimes. And tuna fish was available. And but this store on the other side of the Costa Rican border would have gouda cheese imported from Holland, that did not need refrigeration either way up high and it got down to 40 degrees at night and maybe 75 during the day or 80. And that cheese kept itself good for like two months and did not need refrigeration. So we lived on that. I became very creative in cooking with cheese. I made these mini pizzas on the stovetop, you know, so I didn't have an oven either. I had a three burner propane gas stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like kerosene or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:432", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.653530280224979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As opposed to the horse embryo.\n\nThat was over in time and it was just kind of a scary.\n\nOn the border, so we were vegetarians because we had no refrigerator. And so I was like, no. The two little stores that sell food, they were called pulperias. The woman would have maybe three or four eggs for sale each day. And I didn't want to buy all of them because I knew other people wanted them too, so I'd buy like two eggs a day sometimes. And tuna fish was available. And but this store on the other side of the Costa Rican border would have gouda cheese imported from Holland, that did not need refrigeration either way up high and it got down to 40 degrees at night and maybe 75 during the day or 80. And that cheese kept itself good for like two months and did not need refrigeration. So we lived on that. I became very creative in cooking with cheese. I made these mini pizzas on the stovetop, you know, so I didn't have an oven either. I had a three burner propane gas stove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was like kerosene or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was gas, like propane gas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like when you would barbecue today, you know, the tanks.\n\nSo there'd be two regular sized burners and one tiny one. And that's what I cooked on, right? I used the cheese for melting for pizza, combined with potatoes. It was a challenge eating then. And I was not, you know, I was in my first year, my second year of marriage, and I wasn't an experienced cook. Going to the Panamanian border to get that kind of saved my life. And the Cadbury chocolate was great psychologically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am tempted to ask you a question. I'm going to put it on pause. OK, now we're taping again. I just was curious to know since they went in as a married couple and still are married. How many years have you been married now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:436", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.52287688916664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was gas, like propane gas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like when you would barbecue today, you know, the tanks.\n\nSo there'd be two regular sized burners and one tiny one. And that's what I cooked on, right? I used the cheese for melting for pizza, combined with potatoes. It was a challenge eating then. And I was not, you know, I was in my first year, my second year of marriage, and I wasn't an experienced cook. Going to the Panamanian border to get that kind of saved my life. And the Cadbury chocolate was great psychologically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am tempted to ask you a question. I'm going to put it on pause. OK, now we're taping again. I just was curious to know since they went in as a married couple and still are married. How many years have you been married now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be 41 this month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felicidades, congratulations! Did the Peace Corps maybe strengthen your marriage? You were married just a year, you said, when you went in. I got permission to ask them that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.403234171592507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would be 41 this month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Felicidades, congratulations! Did the Peace Corps maybe strengthen your marriage? You were married just a year, you said, when you went in. I got permission to ask them that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think it gave us common experiences that were very intense. Heavy duty experiences that we share and struggling with the community together, I think that brought us together in a way that we wouldn't have in United States. We would have been doing our own thing in the U.S. He was going to be a graduate student, I was going to graduate student, studying our own different fields. It's not that kind of experience. This is getting involved with people all the all day, every day, seven days a week. So close personal relationships in a way that we never have since.\n\nBy the time we left, sort of we and the community and everything sort of blurred. I mean, there was no longer a me or you or the community. It was just everything was everything. It was everything that happened in that community seemed to be our issue, you know, and problem. And we were so engaged in the struggles, the water system and the nutrition center and the schools and the teacher. The school teacher used to steal the vegetables out of the school garden, and how to deal with that. And some of the fathers didn't like the fact that they were planning these nutritional things and they wanted to put. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, we're going to. Anything else you want to say about the marriage part, Mitch? It's been said."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, we're going to just talk about for time's sake. How would you evaluate your experience in the light of Peace Corps' three goals? Do you remember the goals? Well, this is like to provide technical assistance where requested, to help promote better understanding of Americans by people served, to help promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans. Do you feel like do you want to comment about technical assistance? How was your service in terms of that, were you able to provide technical assistance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:466", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.198452447963469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Ernesto was the rich guy whose son went to West Point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a town that had two little pulperias, grocery stores, and a store that had dry goods and like stoves and fabrics internationally. But this little town with only a couple of places to buy anything had a movie theater, because Ernesto wanted a movie theater in his town. And every weekend on Fridays and Saturday nights they showed films.\n\nHe always said he wanted to provide some healthy entertainment. So instead of the people drinking at the bar, he wanted on Friday and Saturday to go to a movie?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And years later, because in our second year, when we either a parent came back or a parent. We took, our parents subsidized us with film for slides and we took pictures and we'd sent it to them.\n\nBut they would develop them in the U.S.\n\nThen we brought them back and had a slide show for the entire town in the movie theater. He charged 50 percent, a nominal fee, for the community support, for the poor kids.\n\nAnd then we'd put up a poster saying see yourselves in real life. See yourselves in the movie. And so we did a slideshow on the movie screen in this movie theater. And they enjoyed that. And oh yes, for the fundraiser, we sold popcorn for the first time. No one had ever eaten popcorn. They got popping corn. And this woman, Lolita, in her kitchen, popped the corn, and we sold it also for a nominal fee. And people loved that. No one was eating popcorn in San Jose movie theaters back then in '68. It was not known then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boy, you accomplished so much. I'm jealous."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:476", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.246162480059626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned how to make pizza. There was no Pizza Hut yet in Costa Rica, you could not buy a pizza. So I taught her how to make pizza from scratch from my Fannie Farmer cookbook. And she remembered, that she knows how to make pizza, you know, with the natural ingredients available in the town, you know. This is so laughable. Because everyone knows what pizza is now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if you want to comment on this, because I sort of wanted to get on tape what you kind of told me before we started and all. But there's another question. Did you think you helped promote better understanding of Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ugly American thing was, there are people who, you know, maintain ties there for years. People remember us as whether you and I were considered to be imperialists or spies or people who were doing damage. But we ended up being scholars and wrote scholarly works on the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is, which leads to the question we've talked about some but if you have any other thoughts about this. What was the effect of you on of your Peace Corps service? How did it change you? I mean, you've talked about this before we started the tape and sometime during the taping, you mentioned your careers. Do you want to say anything else about how the Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, my first books were on political participation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many books have you written? I don't know. I really don't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:478", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.49573608895514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ugly American thing was, there are people who, you know, maintain ties there for years. People remember us as whether you and I were considered to be imperialists or spies or people who were doing damage. But we ended up being scholars and wrote scholarly works on the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is, which leads to the question we've talked about some but if you have any other thoughts about this. What was the effect of you on of your Peace Corps service? How did it change you? I mean, you've talked about this before we started the tape and sometime during the taping, you mentioned your careers. Do you want to say anything else about how the Peace Corps experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, my first books were on political participation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many books have you written? I don't know. I really don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On my CV I have 140 articles and something like 20 books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you've written, 20 books?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:482", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.461381581314082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On my CV I have 140 articles and something like 20 books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That you've written, 20 books?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or edited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Caramba!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps more than that. But the focus of that work in those early days when we came back for the dissertation, I got to connect up with an American from Texas. It was to look at the view of Latin America from the point of view of the United States was the problem is these people don't do anything. They said that, you know, a Mexican sitting under the cactus with a sombrero, sitting on his ass, doing nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:494", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.642241782194651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, we went back with our child, you know, he was like, that's what I remember. We went back to school with an 18 month old, then we went back and she was in kindergarten in Costa Rica for a few months. Then we went back and she was in the fourth grade or fifth grade.\n\nFast forwarding a bit, then she went down and started, you know, she volunteered and she lived with the Costa Rican family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she was not.\n\nIn college she had a semester at Costa Rica studying and living with a Costa Rican family. She did work on the survey, during the volunteer's survey for research.\n\nAnd she lived in Chile by volunteering at an orphanage for a year. And now she works as an epidemiologist in public health dealing with children at risk. Many of them are minority kids in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it affected the whole family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, she became very much a Latin American. I mean, her dissertation, she got a PhD in political sciences. She spent two years in Argentina doing her fieldwork. So, yeah, the Costa Rican experiences that she had as a child gave her the impetus to work on Latin America later on in academic work. Yeah, the whole family became a Latin American family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. I think. Anything you want to add?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was no bridge.\n\nAnd it was pouring and the village had come down and we were in the pouring rain.\n\nBalancing yourself on the log.\n\nAnd they're getting us across.\n\nAnd so a couple of people from the town that were good friends came with us and carried our suitcases for us on the log and helped us, held their hands as we crossed the log.\n\nProbably, probably the Peace Corps, which is a fully funded and small agency in the U.S. Government, probably there are an enormous amount that could be done to extract all the experiences and to turn them into greater benefit. That is, we're all, this is the first time we're getting together as a group. That was one small meeting a few years ago in New York. It was 40 years later. Now a lot of us are doing things that are one way or another related to those experiences, and yet there's no systematic effort to try to capitalize on that. Costa Rica is a country with whom the United States has great relations, but I can imagine a lot of places. Bolivia and the United States for having real problems now. There are thousands of returned volunteers from Bolivia, who probably had a really great time. I could, you know, people could use that. So there was no follow up. We left the Peace Corps and we never heard from them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Never heard from whom again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps as an organization. Once in a while they trace us. They finally got us and we put these things as a Peace Corps thing.\n\nWell, now and then every year, when the Peace Corps comes to recruit volunteers, they asked for people who have been in the Peace Corps in the past to come and participate in some way, but they found us.\n\nBut it's pretty unsystematic.\n\nWell in Peace Corps there's someone independently tries to find ex PCVs, and made a circle of former Peace Corps volunteers. But that was his own doing and had nothing to do with Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you part of the National Peace Corps Association?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because they do exist. Or have you heard of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:514", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps as an organization. Once in a while they trace us. They finally got us and we put these things as a Peace Corps thing.\n\nWell, now and then every year, when the Peace Corps comes to recruit volunteers, they asked for people who have been in the Peace Corps in the past to come and participate in some way, but they found us.\n\nBut it's pretty unsystematic.\n\nWell in Peace Corps there's someone independently tries to find ex PCVs, and made a circle of former Peace Corps volunteers. But that was his own doing and had nothing to do with Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you part of the National Peace Corps Association?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because they do exist. Or have you heard of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here and there. And I guess I mean, in our particular case, since our lives are really as Latin American, as I became a director of a Latin American center, you know, this is what I do for a living. So I'm engaged in the thing as an individual. That's my profession. So I don't feel it's time to sort of try to seek that out as a way of, you know, if I were a businessman selling cars, I might to do that on the side. That's my mainstream as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, anything else? Do you want to add anything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00230:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No.\n\nNo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And because they do exist. Or have you heard of them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here and there. And I guess I mean, in our particular case, since our lives are really as Latin American, as I became a director of a Latin American center, you know, this is what I do for a living. So I'm engaged in the thing as an individual. That's my profession. So I don't feel it's time to sort of try to seek that out as a way of, you know, if I were a businessman selling cars, I might to do that on the side. That's my mainstream as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, anything else? Do you want to add anything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not really. The Peace Corps has irrevocably changed our lives. If I hadn't been in the Peace Corps, a lot of what I am today would not be there. I mean, I wouldn't be the same person, you know. I hope that what I taught my students is help them to act better when they go to Latin America as a U.S. representative.\n\nProfound respect for the all the people of other cultures that we could have never gotten any other way. Understanding that there are actually other people out there who were just as smart as you. This Francisco Mejia, third grade education is all he ever had. Smart as they could be, as articulate as anyone can be. Wow, you know.\n\nThis is what we learned. Just because you don't have formal education and you're poor doesn't mean that you're not smart. And I think we wouldn't have understood that if not for Peace Corps.\n\nA lot of the views, Americans, you know, American government in the United States, we really get and somehow we, you know, that ain't so, that ain't so. And it's that kind of hubris is something that's gotten us into a lot of trouble in the contemporary period."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I have to say this is the only interview I've done where I've gotten so choked up. OK, thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00322:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much, no. I don’t think that we were that close. Me being a local kid, I didn’t have that problem, but now there were a lot of NACA engineers had come from other places, and so, they did become very close. They lived together in apartments and things like that, the engineers did, and then they built houses close to each other, and they became very close friends, yes. That’s very true. I wasn’t one of those. I did get to know a lot of guys that way, but I was fortunate enough to be a local rat. NACA people were known to be very strange people. They liked them, though, because it was very important to the economy in Hampton, Virginia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure many became community leaders as well, getting involved with the local towns and doing some things within towns."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course. School boards and things like that. We changed this place [Clear Lake, area] when we came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you did, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you that. The education system improved 100 percent the day we walked in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s this local story of how at that time, the group of old men that always sat together at the bank and talked were trying to figure out just how many years NASA was going to be here before it left, and then they were going to have to deal with all these problems, all the buildings. It’s kind of funny now because people thought five years—until you got to the Moon, and then everybody would just disappear."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00322:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, of course. School boards and things like that. We changed this place [Clear Lake, area] when we came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you did, definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll tell you that. The education system improved 100 percent the day we walked in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s this local story of how at that time, the group of old men that always sat together at the bank and talked were trying to figure out just how many years NASA was going to be here before it left, and then they were going to have to deal with all these problems, all the buildings. It’s kind of funny now because people thought five years—until you got to the Moon, and then everybody would just disappear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfortunately, that’s beginning to come to roost, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many years later. We’re glad you’re a—what did you call yourself, a local rat?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00258:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 54.45452598075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I was sitting up in the radiation room. We were in the weather room up there, doing the solar weather. So I was a peripheral. I got to listen to it all go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about where you were for Apollo 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo 11, when it landed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the Cotswold Village Apartments with my fiancée, watching it on TV that night. I’d just gotten off console. In fact, what you’ll find is the people that were on console during Apollo 11 pulled rank on everybody that they could. There wasn’t anybody that didn’t realize that it was only going to happen for the first time once. So when you go look around right now for the people who were on console for Apollo 11, then they were in some kind of management position and they flat made sure they were going to be sitting there on the day so they could tell their grandkids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you straightened that out for us. [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00258:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 25, "return_to_go": 60.505028867499995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Apollo 11, when it landed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at the Cotswold Village Apartments with my fiancée, watching it on TV that night. I’d just gotten off console. In fact, what you’ll find is the people that were on console during Apollo 11 pulled rank on everybody that they could. There wasn’t anybody that didn’t realize that it was only going to happen for the first time once. So when you go look around right now for the people who were on console for Apollo 11, then they were in some kind of management position and they flat made sure they were going to be sitting there on the day so they could tell their grandkids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you straightened that out for us. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of us kids knew that we were on the third shift and we were going to have to watch it at home. Of course, I got to drink a beer with mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You knew your place. [Laughs]\\n\\n Let me ask you about the first time you saw a Saturn, or I should say the first time the Saturn launched, you happened to be there and you mentioned that you were there as part of the disaster team."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00258:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.75, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The one Gene did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that presentation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think that it was a good portrayal of what Flight Ops was like at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it probably was. Again, you’re going to get everything through the eyes of the guys that did it. And like I say, Flight Control, that’s one of the reasons why you go ask that question of people that weren’t in Flight Operations, they’ll give you a different answer. I told you earlier that Flight Control was probably one of the more arrogant organizations, and deservedly so.\\n\\n But a lot of things that happened, it was just on the line. It’s the kind of thing that says, “Sure. Wouldn’t you always want to entrust everything you’re doing to a bunch of twenty-seven-year-old kids?” [Stephen G.] Steve Bales was twenty-seven, twenty-eight years old when he was in the Control Center. Fortunately, they’d simed [simulated] that case, and [John R.] Jack Garman had seen it before and Jack was in the backroom, so they knew what they had. But still, I’ve heard from the guys that were sitting just behind Steve, that he didn’t exactly announce that to the Flight Director in his calmest level of voice. Don Puddy told me, “The hair stood up on the back of my neck when Steve—.” [Laughs] I worked for those guys back when Don was the Division Chief and Steve was my Branch Chief and Deputy Division Chief.\\n\\n So Flight Ops definitely had an attitude, and we weren’t the only ones. The Engineering Directorate had some prima donna organizations that they had, and Mission Planning and Analysis was the same type operations. So like I say, it was everybody working against each other for a common cause. It was competition for the best way to do things, and there was nobody going to give an inch until it was decided."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other areas or anything else you can think of today that you’d like to mention about these two areas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.174249907818737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and that same thing was true, we had the job of man-rating the Atlas program and also the Titan program—which was called the Mercury first manned flight—well, first orbiting manned flight was in the Mercury. [Alan B.] Shepard [Jr.] was not in orbit; he was in space, but was not in orbit. There was Mercury and then the Gemini.\\n\\n Incidentally, there wasn't a single failure. There was something like twenty-five launches; I don't know the exact number. But between the two of them, about twenty-five launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been very rewarding to see them so successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about man-rating the Atlas and the Titan. That's a very important fact in that these were originally designed to be missiles to go out and explode. How did you work to man-rate them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't give you a lot of detail, but just one example is that the Gs, the forces of gravity, a machine can take many more Gs than a man can, so they had to apply a different burn rate to get the Gs down so that the man could tolerate them from a physical standpoint. That was a key thing as far as a man was concerned. Just exactly what had to be done to the missile, it worked, whatever it was. I can't give you the details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When were the first discussions about using the Atlas for the Mercury program, do you recall those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.86027767535415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about man-rating the Atlas and the Titan. That's a very important fact in that these were originally designed to be missiles to go out and explode. How did you work to man-rate them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't give you a lot of detail, but just one example is that the Gs, the forces of gravity, a machine can take many more Gs than a man can, so they had to apply a different burn rate to get the Gs down so that the man could tolerate them from a physical standpoint. That was a key thing as far as a man was concerned. Just exactly what had to be done to the missile, it worked, whatever it was. I can't give you the details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When were the first discussions about using the Atlas for the Mercury program, do you recall those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really don't recall when they first started, but we were working together with NASA on it right from the very beginning. They were the only boosters we had that could put a man into space. We didn't have anything else. We had the Atlas—period. Then the Titan came along. Of course, going to the moon was another matter. You had a much larger rocket engine, complex of engines for that, and those were all developed by NASA. But we had the rocket stands we had the Muroc Lake in California, were all part of that program as well. We had a very large rocket test capability there, built additional test stands and so forth.\\n\\n So we were working together with NASA, in addition to just the project. We had people throughout the NASA organization working with them on major programs of that nature. I had General [Osmond J.] Ritland over there for a while, and he was my deputy on the West Coast after that. So we really worked together at the working level, let's put it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. In fact, the Air Force was in control of the launch facilities even at Cape Canaveral [Florida], as well, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.90573069321557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. NASA had the responsibility for the launch, but it was a team. But the Air Force had the responsibility for carrying out the launch process, and they worked together. I've forgotten who had the \"push the button\" responsibility, but I presume it was NASA, because it was their program, and we provided the booster to get the astronaut into orbit. We were working together on that, too, in doing the testing and so forth. It was a NASA responsibility, and we pitched in where—well, not only pitched in, but working together just as a single team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you hadn't been able to work together, things probably wouldn't have gone the way they did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was plenty of motivation to work together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't want to leave somebody up there in orbit, you know, and so forth, or have it crash, or have a failure on the pad. You know what happened as far as when the Shuttle launch went awry [Challenger STS 51-L]. It created a tremendous stir. So we had our fingers crossed. We took the risk to bring back the faith of the American people that we could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, like you said before, those were very successful missions. The boosters worked well, everyone came back well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.22858965912841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was plenty of motivation to work together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't want to leave somebody up there in orbit, you know, and so forth, or have it crash, or have a failure on the pad. You know what happened as far as when the Shuttle launch went awry [Challenger STS 51-L]. It created a tremendous stir. So we had our fingers crossed. We took the risk to bring back the faith of the American people that we could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, like you said before, those were very successful missions. The boosters worked well, everyone came back well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As the Mercury program was first starting up, in fact, even before anyone had flown on the Atlas, right after Alan Shepard's launch, President Kennedy made the challenge to send a man to the moon and return him safely to the Earth by the end of the decade. What did you think when you heard that challenge?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.124353772508268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, look how fast we've—after all, Sputnik occurred in 1957, in October 1957, and you talk about—what did you mention that we were—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going from flight with the Wright brothers up to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but motivation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Motivating factor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Motivating factor. That motivating factor has really worked, particularly in the commercial side and in the military side. So the twenty-first century will be a very interesting one, but since I got started fairly early in the twentieth, I don't know that I'll see much of the twenty-first. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully you'll see at least some of it starting out and everything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.693726413898075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but motivation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Motivating factor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Motivating factor. That motivating factor has really worked, particularly in the commercial side and in the military side. So the twenty-first century will be a very interesting one, but since I got started fairly early in the twentieth, I don't know that I'll see much of the twenty-first. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully you'll see at least some of it starting out and everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seem to be going along fine now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.437473793220082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Motivating factor. That motivating factor has really worked, particularly in the commercial side and in the military side. So the twenty-first century will be a very interesting one, but since I got started fairly early in the twentieth, I don't know that I'll see much of the twenty-first. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, hopefully you'll see at least some of it starting out and everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seem to be going along fine now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not far away."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.374970881355647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You seem to be going along fine now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not far away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've certainly seen a wide change in technologies and abilities so far in your lifetime."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.527745423728497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's not far away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've certainly seen a wide change in technologies and abilities so far in your lifetime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out in fabric, wood, and open cockpit, a very glamour kind of helmet and goggles and scarves and so forth. And look what we've got now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever imagine where your career could lead you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.808606026364995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've certainly seen a wide change in technologies and abilities so far in your lifetime."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started out in fabric, wood, and open cockpit, a very glamour kind of helmet and goggles and scarves and so forth. And look what we've got now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever imagine where your career could lead you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had more feel for it after World War II and I spent a couple of tours in the Pentagon and National War College. I think my vision was a little bit more than just sitting in the cockpit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back at relations between NASA and the Air Force, were there formal agreements made or did everything just kind of flow together? How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.320714239136798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. This country can do anything if it sets its mind to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1959, you moved over as commander—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the policy of the hard jobs we do overnight, the impossible jobs take a little longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Take a few days, at least, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you certainly achieved what once was considered impossible. I believe one of the science advisors for one of the Presidents one year said that ballistic missiles wouldn't be possible for many, many years down the road."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.800793599040887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the policy of the hard jobs we do overnight, the impossible jobs take a little longer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] Take a few days, at least, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you certainly achieved what once was considered impossible. I believe one of the science advisors for one of the Presidents one year said that ballistic missiles wouldn't be possible for many, many years down the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that, unfortunately, was one of the scientists. I knew him well. I can remember having a meeting with him in the Pentagon. He said, \"Bennie—\" And he was a tremendous man and a wonderful man. \"Why don't you take it a step at a time and move forward on a shorter-range missile?\" And I said, \"Well, we're going to be doing a shorter-range missile, but I don't think we need to do it in sequence.\" That's what most of the scientists said. I said, \"This isn't my decision from a technical and scientific standpoint, but they say we can do it, so I think it's important that we shoot for the moon, so to speak, and get the range that we need.\" Because a short-range missile, after all, the only major threat at that point was the Soviet Union, was Communism, represented by the Soviet Union.\\n\\n So it certainly wasn't unanimous, and particularly with respect to the reentry phase of it. That was the one that quite a few scientists thought was very, very almost impossible thing to do. And we figured out a test program to actually carry out a test of that by taking a nose cone into space and then having enough rocket power to accelerate it so it goes back into space essentially at the same velocity that our nose cones would be coming back in. And we proved it could be done that way, or else we'd have been delayed probably for a couple of years or longer. We called it the 117-L program, which Lockheed Aircraft did, very successful program, and got a lot of people off our back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the Corona and Discoverer program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.685393317499827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it had two purposes, one having to do with ability of man to operate over extended periods, but it also had a mission to perform, which I don't know whether it's declassified yet or not, so I won't tell you what it was. But there was an operational mission involved.\\n\\n A new administration came in and decided that that mission could be carried on adequately by unmanned and more cheaply with unmanned satellites, and that's what led to the cancellation of the MOL. It was in being for about, oh, four or five years, I guess, maybe longer, but around that time period. So as commander of Systems Command, I was also given the job of being director of the MOL program, so they reported directly to me and it was a unique arrangement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly a unique arrangement and a unique program, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think actually that it made sense to determine man's capability. I think that actually NASA had not picked up at that point in time an orbiting laboratory such as they are doing now, in conjunction jointly with the Russians. I don't know who else is involved in it. Well, you know, after all, we were involved in something brand new, and it wasn't just a plaything that we were dealing with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What else was on that question? MOL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was most of it. That was most of it. As the programs moved forward from the ICBM and then into NASA with Mercury, then into Gemini, you were, I believe, involved on the Gemini Program Planning Board. What did that entail?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.76154813055536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think actually that it made sense to determine man's capability. I think that actually NASA had not picked up at that point in time an orbiting laboratory such as they are doing now, in conjunction jointly with the Russians. I don't know who else is involved in it. Well, you know, after all, we were involved in something brand new, and it wasn't just a plaything that we were dealing with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What else was on that question? MOL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was most of it. That was most of it. As the programs moved forward from the ICBM and then into NASA with Mercury, then into Gemini, you were, I believe, involved on the Gemini Program Planning Board. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one problem. There were several problems, actually, bringing in smoothly the G loading on the individual, on the astronaut. Gemini [Titan], being a two-stage device, had what they called a pogo, uneven application of G loading, which was, of course, a propulsion problem. And I've forgotten now whether it was the first stage or the second stage where the problem was, but we did have a panel or committee set up to take a look at that, and that's the only time that I can remember being involved in that kind of a look-see, because normally—but it was important enough that I think I was chairman of it, if my memory's right, but that's the only problem that I can remember that we had with the Titan, which we really were caught out on a limb, so to speak.\\n\\n We never did get rid of the pogo effect completely, but at least we got it down to a—it was a random kind of thing, so that was a worry. Uneven burning created the G loadings that man couldn't take, so we solved them to the point where we never had a problem with it in flight, but I've still heard some of the astronauts saying they got some fairly substantial jolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess as long as they got up there and did the job—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.06838681172818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What else was on that question? MOL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was most of it. That was most of it. As the programs moved forward from the ICBM and then into NASA with Mercury, then into Gemini, you were, I believe, involved on the Gemini Program Planning Board. What did that entail?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one problem. There were several problems, actually, bringing in smoothly the G loading on the individual, on the astronaut. Gemini [Titan], being a two-stage device, had what they called a pogo, uneven application of G loading, which was, of course, a propulsion problem. And I've forgotten now whether it was the first stage or the second stage where the problem was, but we did have a panel or committee set up to take a look at that, and that's the only time that I can remember being involved in that kind of a look-see, because normally—but it was important enough that I think I was chairman of it, if my memory's right, but that's the only problem that I can remember that we had with the Titan, which we really were caught out on a limb, so to speak.\\n\\n We never did get rid of the pogo effect completely, but at least we got it down to a—it was a random kind of thing, so that was a worry. Uneven burning created the G loadings that man couldn't take, so we solved them to the point where we never had a problem with it in flight, but I've still heard some of the astronauts saying they got some fairly substantial jolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess as long as they got up there and did the job—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got there and got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shows some of the intricacies of the various systems."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.631540901920197, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can remember one problem. There were several problems, actually, bringing in smoothly the G loading on the individual, on the astronaut. Gemini [Titan], being a two-stage device, had what they called a pogo, uneven application of G loading, which was, of course, a propulsion problem. And I've forgotten now whether it was the first stage or the second stage where the problem was, but we did have a panel or committee set up to take a look at that, and that's the only time that I can remember being involved in that kind of a look-see, because normally—but it was important enough that I think I was chairman of it, if my memory's right, but that's the only problem that I can remember that we had with the Titan, which we really were caught out on a limb, so to speak.\\n\\n We never did get rid of the pogo effect completely, but at least we got it down to a—it was a random kind of thing, so that was a worry. Uneven burning created the G loadings that man couldn't take, so we solved them to the point where we never had a problem with it in flight, but I've still heard some of the astronauts saying they got some fairly substantial jolts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess as long as they got up there and did the job—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got there and got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shows some of the intricacies of the various systems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we don't have to deal with that, you know, as far as a missile goes. [The missile] can stand very high Gs, many more than a man can stand. We talk about eight Gs in an airplane is about the maximum. We go higher than that once in a while with test-pilot work, but I don't know what the ultimate—you have to be young and all kinds of things to take high Gs, else you pass out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the human body doesn't like to have too much pressure on it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.47948989102244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got there and got back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Shows some of the intricacies of the various systems."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we don't have to deal with that, you know, as far as a missile goes. [The missile] can stand very high Gs, many more than a man can stand. We talk about eight Gs in an airplane is about the maximum. We go higher than that once in a while with test-pilot work, but I don't know what the ultimate—you have to be young and all kinds of things to take high Gs, else you pass out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the human body doesn't like to have too much pressure on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we probably had some other problems, too, but that was the main problem as far as the Gemini program was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That program, with the pogo and then also on the Atlas, there was a few difficulties. I know on the Atlas they'd have some weaknesses sometimes in the early launches, would have a tendency to explode occasionally. Were there times when they would look at both the Atlas and the Titan, and when you would look at it, wonder if it was going to be able to accomplish the mission? Or did you think that it would just take enough work and tweaking to make it work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.36974060620054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we probably had some other problems, too, but that was the main problem as far as the Gemini program was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That program, with the pogo and then also on the Atlas, there was a few difficulties. I know on the Atlas they'd have some weaknesses sometimes in the early launches, would have a tendency to explode occasionally. Were there times when they would look at both the Atlas and the Titan, and when you would look at it, wonder if it was going to be able to accomplish the mission? Or did you think that it would just take enough work and tweaking to make it work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we thought we could make it work or else we wouldn't have done it. You can say that maybe if you'd had something that wasn't as important as showing the American people that we were still in the ball game, you know, then we might not have taken that risk, but there was a certain amount of risk involved. We had five Atlas failures in a row in one instance during the test program, but that was behind us, you know, when we got to the Sputnik thing. This was in the early sixties that the manned space flight started. I've forgotten when the first launch was made."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1961."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'61. Okay. Early sixties. That's right. Well, by that time we had Atlas operational in the inventory up in Cheyenne [Wyoming]. Not just one. I mean, we had one there in 1959, I think one or two. You know, you have to look at all factors, and in some instances you take more risks than others. Certainly where life is concerned, that's the highest risk that one takes, because the reaction of the American people is very bad publicity for the guys who did it. \"What the hell did you do it for? You should have known better.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We've talked about your interactions with NASA. Were you also involved working with [Wernher] von Braun's group down in Marshall Space Flight Center [Alabama]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.264390406310753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. The only times we were very closely working together was on the Thor and the Jupiter. See, they were both intermediate-range missiles, and the Jupiter was being built for shipborne launch from naval vessels, later changed to ground deployment, and they were deployed when Italy and—Italy, I know. And we deployed the Thor in Great Britain. So they were using the same rocket engine that we were using. The Thor and the Jupiter had the same rocket engine. So we worked together on that fairly close. On most other things, we were not working that closely, because when they got involved in the lunar program, we were not involved in it at all in terms of working with them. I'm sure we had some liaison people there, but they were not really part of his team.\\n\\n But I knew Wernher quite well. One aspect you have to remember is that I worked very closely with Keith Glennan, worked very closely with Jim Webb, and it took a little while to get really—we were working together during the most heated phase of what we do and what they do, and so forth and so on. But from a personal standpoint, we got along very well together, although we didn't always agree. But I had a great respect for him, and I think he respected me, too. But I liked Jim, and he was a little explosive at times, but we had no personal problems. We had disagreements from time to time, but we worked them out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think disagreements—nobody can ever get along perfectly, so disagreements are—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tom Paine came in third, but I think—I'm pretty sure I had retired by the time Tom Paine took over, because I retired in '66. I don't think he took over until about '68 or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that's correct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he had been the number-two man under Webb for a while, I think, before—I'm pretty sure he was number two for a while, for Webb. A good man, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any others that were key factors in this all coming together so well? Any other people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.849322673678614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tom Paine came in third, but I think—I'm pretty sure I had retired by the time Tom Paine took over, because I retired in '66. I don't think he took over until about '68 or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe that's correct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he had been the number-two man under Webb for a while, I think, before—I'm pretty sure he was number two for a while, for Webb. A good man, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any others that were key factors in this all coming together so well? Any other people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not so much in my case. I worked pretty much with the top group. Because we had so many Air Force people at various levels working together, they were the emissaries of either good or bad, and that was essentially all—not all, but essentially all very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In general, the space program and the manned space program, in particular, what effect did it have on national security?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.946100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't know. I guess—well, it's hard to say. I think the greatest success was my opportunity to have assignments that dealt with creating a new force structure as it relates to the Air Force, because I was at Wright Field [Ohio] prior to the war, and at Stanford University [California] when the war started, and came back and had the assignments which I think gave me an opportunity to be involved in what Hap Arnold was talking about, applying technology, new technology, to overhauling, you might say, the Air Force, because we were in the Air Force.\\n\\n Getting into the long-range missile and space activity, I was a disciple, you might say, of Hap Arnold, and particularly his jet engine, his rocket engine, and the application of nuclear weapons. Thank God they have actually deterred a major war. We haven't fired another nuclear weapon since the one that was dropped on Nagasaki [Japan]. That's been quite a few years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite a few. That was quite a success, that you were able to bring the program to where it needed to be to do that [deter war]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, I'm talking about being involved in maintaining it. I was involved in all of those things, and putting them into what you might call a peacetime environment, although there hasn't been a peacetime as far as regional wars is concerned. So I think our next big challenge is how do we really stop them before they start."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is going to be quite a challenge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's deterrence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the involvement between NASA and the Air Force, are there any last thoughts that you have on how that interaction went or how much the ICBM program helped NASA, or any last thoughts on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01011:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 9.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's deterrence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over the involvement between NASA and the Air Force, are there any last thoughts that you have on how that interaction went or how much the ICBM program helped NASA, or any last thoughts on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't really believe the ICBM program helped NASA. I mean, the technology that was involved was important to NASA as well as important to the military. One thing that I commiserated with Keith Glennan and Jim Webb and, since I've retired, with various other administrators of NASA, was that we weren't putting enough money in aviation research, but whether they were pushing it enough or not, the amount of effort on aviation went down.\\n\\n I worked before the war, when I was at Wright Field as a test pilot, I went to Langley [Research Center, NACA, Hampton, Virginia] quite frequently. I have a high regard for the Langley operation, the Cleveland operation [Lewis Research Center], and the propulsion area at San Jose [Ames Research Center, California], did a tremendous job. I think we can't forget aviation. It still needs a lot of additional work. But I don't really know how well the services are working with NASA today, because I don't get at that interface that often. But it seems to me that I don't hear much that—you still have military people working over there, and I think they're all working well together where aviation and space meets. That should be stressed, and I think it is being stressed. I don't have enough knowledge, really, of the details of the operation at the moment, what they're doing in the way of detailed projects and programs, but my message is, keep working together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For the future—and this is just speculating, based on your experiences—do you see a specific military space agency developing at all, or do you see things just kind of progressing as they are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean a military space agency? For research and development and so forth?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or to just pursue military and defense initiatives in space."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00406:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 130.23391990000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Great question. Pilots, we need our flying time. You’ve got to get it in the front seat. You have to have that experience, a minimum number of hours. So that was why. That’s why I did that all the time with my pilots too when I was a commander and when I was a pilot for my commander. If you have an MS that wanted to go but believe me, flying an STA [Shuttle Training Aircraft] at El Paso until 11:00 at night is not exactly their idea of a good time and a great way to get their flying time. So a lot of times when you were flying those STAs out there on a night range nobody was in your backseat, because nobody really cared. They didn’t want to go with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s too bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes I know. But they were still getting their hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours did you have to fly as a pilot in the office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifteen hours a month. The typical flight time is about 1.3. So it works out to be 11 or 12 sorties a month. So when you think about that, that’s two and a half a week kind of thing, something like that. That’s a full day of flying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever practice something like emergency landings? Or was it pretty much just flying?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00837:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.388134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t have much input on that. Phil and John, they’re better witnesses to this than I am. I left it to them to decide where the competencies were in the Centers and where the various tasks should go, and I think they did a pretty good job of that initially.\\n\\n If you’re interested in this, Phil is getting as old as I am. As a matter of fact, Phil might be a little older that I am. You should get him to contribute, if you haven’t. He’s down in Cocoa Beach [Florida]. He lives down in Cocoa Beach. But he could give you more insight on how that was done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the lead Center concept?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’ve got to remember I left the agency relatively shortly after we had put all this together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Space Station, at the point when you left, had it been going along how you had anticipated at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was generally satisfied. We had not really gotten very far along, but what we had done, I was very satisfied with the design concept. As I say, that hasn’t really changed a whole lot since that time. They were still arguing about details, but the core concept had been put together, and I thought it was a good one, and still do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The original Station seemed to have quite a diverse constituency in terms of supporting the missions for the Station, and some of those have dropped off or come back or been added or changed over the years. Maybe you can share with us some of that process in terms of recruiting these different organizations."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 37.30701573101923, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not so sure, in my mind, that NACA had the urgency or knew what the urgency was at that time. We were doing a program that had to advance flight. I was not privy to how much of it was military, how much of it had to be done because the military needed this or needed that, other than that B-29 that I read about in the book. I think when the space program came around, it was like somebody shot a hypodermic needle in you. You had a goal that everybody knew. Here was aeronautics—no space, just aeronautics—and now you had something that the nation knew about, the world knew about. I think that was a big shot in the arm, to be honest with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know you mentioned guidelines for writing the reports, but it was a time that America felt, or maybe some of the leaders felt, that we were in a race. The information was protected, so that the Russians didn’t know what we were doing. Did you have that over your head when you were preparing materials to send to the public? Did someone have to check your information?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t. I wasn’t in that area at the time. I don’t know how they did that. The reports were classified as technical note or a technical report, and there were various security associated with these. A TN [Technical Note] and a TM—when you talk to these other engineers, maybe they could tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your case, the information that you shared with the public and the teachers, it was all of a level that was just—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was all general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to put those materials together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 38.650636704962004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was all general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to put those materials together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was mostly done by Headquarters. There were a few things that we printed out of Lewis. When I retired, in fact, prior to the retirement party—the Wright Brothers had flown in 1903, and I forget what the occasion was, 75th anniversary of flight. I guess that’s what it was. I had 30 or 40,000 of these things run off, which was a picture of the Wright Brothers [standing next to their famous airplane]. Anybody came in the door, they were handed one. We put them in everything that went out.\\n\\n When I retired, there was still quite a stack of them left, [which I found in the briefcase gift I received. They gave me one framed and signed, “Cal – Best wishes to a dear friend – Will and Orv. Thanks for the push!” It’s hanging over my desk today]. They gave me [the briefcase] to travel because when I left here—it was funny, the last day I was here, as I was cleaning up my desk there was a telephone call, and it was the local Cuyahoga Community College [Cleveland]. There was a woman there that was setting up a program for elders, and she said, “Is there anybody there that could come and help us teach about aeronautics and space?”\\n\\n I said, “You’re talking to him right now.” I left and went there, and I taught there for 10 years.\\n\\n Getting back to this suitcase, they gave me the suitcase. I opened it up, and here were all the pictures of the Wright Brothers that were left over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“And take these with you.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could take these with me and pass them out when I go someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know that you mentioned that you used to have the inspections, so did you have big open houses and were you involved in coordinating that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.46098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we always call it the lab. I think they called it the clubhouse, or something. We’d get funny names we’d call it, just for the fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sandra, did you have some questions that you wanted to ask?\n\nI was just going to ask, since you were with the Public Relations and setting up the educational resources, did you ever work with any of the other NASA Centers, in setting that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kind of did our own thing because everybody was a little different. We couldn’t quite compete with the Cape [Canaveral, Florida], with [all their] possibilities. Now, I guess, it’s quite something that’s down there. We were kind of independent. We had guidance from Headquarters, but the public affairs people there had nothing to say as to what I did as far as this Visitor Center was concerned. They were very interested in it after it was up and very interested in what was going on, particularly the teachers’ resources room. Of all the things we did, that I did, all the people that I talked to over all those years, I think it kind of just came together. It was like I was in a training program to build that thing, when it finally came around. The teachers’ resources room to me was tops because I had something that the other Centers did not have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they ever come to you and ask you later how you did that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left, I don’t know. I don’t know what happened after that. In fact, I think most of the others were terminated there at about the same time. I don’t really know. The other Centers, the people that were there, I was the only one of the Centers who was not an educator. I was one of the “unwashed,” as the term went at the time. The rest of them were all people that had been teachers or had been on the Spacemobile program, and then took over a job at the Centers. So they came at it from a little different angle than I came at it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel to the other Centers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was a special bond. Today, those six fellows that we have—when Howard Wine came, he said, “Wait till you go up. The rigmarole you have to go through to get through that front gate now is something else.” I can remember the time when we had the first guardhouses out there, and they had an arm that went up and down. It went up and the car went through, and [then] it came down. One time Dr. Sharp came around the corner and they didn’t lift it, and he went right through it. Then, he stopped and read them out about when the Director comes through here, that gate better be open.\\n\\n We had a Farm House [Administrative Services Building]. When this place first started with the 200 acres, all that was here was this parking lot for the National Air Races, [and the] Farm House, down at the corner, and that was the [only] building. They built a hangar first, and everybody worked out of the hangar—I was not here at that time—until they got the other buildings. That Farm House was right at the end of a runway. When I was in the Education Office, when the new people came in, many an airplane came right over the top. You could look up at your desk and look out, here he comes. Several hundred feet above you, but to look out and see this thing whipping at you. They finally moved [the Farm House] up here, so that it was away from the [runway]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No wonder you were happy, you got airplanes surrounding you everywhere you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I loved it. One of my offices right in the corner of the hangar was here, so I had the pilots up above me. We had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have to wonder when the T-38s were here, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was wonderful. I can’t regret it, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything else you’d like to share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I loved it. One of my offices right in the corner of the hangar was here, so I had the pilots up above me. We had a good time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn’t have to wonder when the T-38s were here, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was wonderful. I can’t regret it, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything else you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I said if anybody ever wanted to know about the NACA, this book, Frontiers of Flights, by Gray—that orientation program that I used to give everybody, it all came out of here, out of the first part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Why did you feel like it was good for people to understand the history of where they were about to work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00979:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was wonderful. I can’t regret it, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything else you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know. I said if anybody ever wanted to know about the NACA, this book, Frontiers of Flights, by Gray—that orientation program that I used to give everybody, it all came out of here, out of the first part of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Why did you feel like it was good for people to understand the history of where they were about to work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that’s true of anything. [You can’t get ahead without knowing where you’ve been.] You better know who you’re working for, as far as I’m concerned. They should be proud of what this organization was doing, because I think we were different, in a way. You’re working for your country. [NACA had only one] public affairs man in the whole [agency]. We weren’t out there blowing our horn, as to we’ve done this, we’ve done that, we’ve done that. Silverstein would say, “The people that want to know us, know us.” The industry. These people worked here, and I think that was the feeling, that we were doing something important whether people knew about it or not. But when the space program came along, blow your horn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right, and then they found out more about what you had done."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.19314275741978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually hired in in 1980, so [OV-]102 Columbia was already at [NASA] Kennedy Space Center [Florida]. The bulk of the design had already been completed. I worked on mostly certification of systems for flight. But as we flew the vehicles we found that there would be efficiencies for processing the vehicle or safety improvements. Then there were changes.\\n\\n We also had some cases where we had difficulty with the hardware performing to specifications. We had a unit called the wing vent relief door, and it allowed venting of the wing through the mid-body if the wing external vent door did not open. It was a large panel that was supposed to open at a certain differential pressure. The cracking pressure range was very narrow, and there’s a lot of vibration in that area.\\n\\n We had a lot of issues with the door either opening too soon—mostly too soon, which is not really a hazardous situation. Too late would create too much pressure. We looked at the environment to see if we were overtesting, and ended up finally making a recommendation that we could delete the door and just vent the wing with the mid-body compartment. That saved us a considerable amount of weight, it saved software space, it eliminated some critical failure modes. All in all it turned out to be a good change.\\n\\n There were many mods [modifications] that came on as a result of large projects that PV&D was a small part of. One was the addition of the drag parachute system and the crew escape system. Things like that always involved the PV&D group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those part of the modifications after the [Space Shuttle] Challenger accident [STS 51-L]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the Challenger accident, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of the work that resulted in the development of replacing the ducting with Kevlar [para-aramid synthetic fiber] and epoxy [polyepoxide]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was before my time. It was always Kevlar-epoxy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked during that time period on the thermal control system."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.436825286021975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After the Challenger accident, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of the work that resulted in the development of replacing the ducting with Kevlar [para-aramid synthetic fiber] and epoxy [polyepoxide]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was before my time. It was always Kevlar-epoxy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked during that time period on the thermal control system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The thermal control system, or TCS, are the internal blankets. When you see video of the vehicle and the doors are open and you see nothing but white, those are the TCS blankets. They’re to control temperatures of the structure and the other hardware systems when you’re on orbit, because going from sunshine to night you’re ranging from +150 degrees to -150 degrees [Fahrenheit]. That design was pretty much done. It was a small group of people and they needed a supervisor, so I just inherited them along with my PV&D group.\\n\\n The interesting thing about that system is almost any change someplace else affected the blankets. If you changed the structure you had to adjust and adapt, if you ran new lines you needed penetrations. The difficult part was that the blanket design always got done at the end. Once everybody finished and finalized their design, then we came at the end and accommodated everybody else—as long as they remembered to tell us.\\n\\n Sometimes at the Palmdale [location in California] they’d go to install a blanket and they’d say, “We can’t install this blanket because there’s this tube that needs to go through the blanket and there’s no penetration.” We’d have to scramble at the last minute and get those kinds of things changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen a lot where you were having to scramble at the end?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.92980587335775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was before my time. It was always Kevlar-epoxy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also worked during that time period on the thermal control system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The thermal control system, or TCS, are the internal blankets. When you see video of the vehicle and the doors are open and you see nothing but white, those are the TCS blankets. They’re to control temperatures of the structure and the other hardware systems when you’re on orbit, because going from sunshine to night you’re ranging from +150 degrees to -150 degrees [Fahrenheit]. That design was pretty much done. It was a small group of people and they needed a supervisor, so I just inherited them along with my PV&D group.\\n\\n The interesting thing about that system is almost any change someplace else affected the blankets. If you changed the structure you had to adjust and adapt, if you ran new lines you needed penetrations. The difficult part was that the blanket design always got done at the end. Once everybody finished and finalized their design, then we came at the end and accommodated everybody else—as long as they remembered to tell us.\\n\\n Sometimes at the Palmdale [location in California] they’d go to install a blanket and they’d say, “We can’t install this blanket because there’s this tube that needs to go through the blanket and there’s no penetration.” We’d have to scramble at the last minute and get those kinds of things changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that happen a lot where you were having to scramble at the end?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended how many mods were being done. If there was a lot of rerouting of hardware—we’d do our best to do the coordination up front, but sometimes people are in a rush and they hurry and they forget to hand off that information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were there we lost Challenger. Talk about the impact on the areas that you worked in, and how the loss of that orbiter impacted the changes that were made for the future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.26450071158206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I went back and forth. I actually never spent much time out there. The Challenger FRF was probably the worst trip I had because I had planned to go for four or five days, and I ended up there for about two and a half weeks. You only take enough clothes with you for the time you think you’re going to be there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the propulsion guys. Were you working with people from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] as well or were you a separate team?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the orbiter propulsion guys were the ones I worked with. They worked really closely with the Marshall folks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find these projects very interesting because they’re all little standalone ones—the drag chute panel [on STS-95]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The door fell off [during launch], yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about when you learned about that event and how your team helped resolve that issue."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For me a lot of it is the people. Obviously the vehicle and the system and the performance is amazing, but some of the most rewarding parts are dealing with the people and pulling teams together and getting them to work together in common cause and come to a solution. It’s also the most frustrating at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It can’t be easy when you have lots of experts sitting at the table."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and lots of personalities. But working on something that’s so visible is great. When you know how complicated the vehicle is and we have so few problems. There’s a million things that could go wrong, and they don’t. It’s kind of discouraging that we’re going to stop flying, because I feel like we’re just hitting our stride. The number of problems we have on the ground has gone down significantly, and the number of problems and the severity of the problems that we see on orbit has gone down significantly. People really know their stuff, and now we’re going to stop. That’s sad. I’d say the technical stuff is not the hard part. It is challenging and it pushes you, but the most challenging thing right now is facing stopping and all the people who are going to be out of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you involved in the transition toward retirement at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of that work is being done by folks in my department, in my project office. I’m involved in setting what the reduced budgets are going to be and in defining the areas that are going to go down and to what level and what timing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That has to be difficult after 30 years of building it up. I guess it’s like you’re both ending your career at the same time. Have you thought about the most challenging aspect of your life in the Shuttle program?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00722:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 12.95, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and lots of personalities. But working on something that’s so visible is great. When you know how complicated the vehicle is and we have so few problems. There’s a million things that could go wrong, and they don’t. It’s kind of discouraging that we’re going to stop flying, because I feel like we’re just hitting our stride. The number of problems we have on the ground has gone down significantly, and the number of problems and the severity of the problems that we see on orbit has gone down significantly. People really know their stuff, and now we’re going to stop. That’s sad. I’d say the technical stuff is not the hard part. It is challenging and it pushes you, but the most challenging thing right now is facing stopping and all the people who are going to be out of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you involved in the transition toward retirement at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of that work is being done by folks in my department, in my project office. I’m involved in setting what the reduced budgets are going to be and in defining the areas that are going to go down and to what level and what timing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That has to be difficult after 30 years of building it up. I guess it’s like you’re both ending your career at the same time. Have you thought about the most challenging aspect of your life in the Shuttle program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s been working after the two accidents, because there’s just the despair and loss of direction. But everybody jumps in, and there’s so much to do and the pace is so fast that you don’t have time to think about that aspect of it. Columbia seemed much worse to me than Challenger. I’m not really sure why, but it just felt more personal. Maybe it’s because of the fact that the debris fell on the ground, and we saw that for months and months of activity. I did have a chance to go to Florida where they had put all the recovered pieces of the vehicle and laid it out. That was very sobering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you had an opportunity to go to a launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.78906269008264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I grew up in eastern Connecticut, still a bit rural, um, in a family of teachers. My mother's side are all teachers. Uh, she taught kindergarten and first grade and Latin and all her sisters and cousins, my aunts, all the women on that side are teachers. High school, university. My father taught at Eastern Connecticut State University and very academic family. Um, already a bit of a mix of cultures. My dad is Bronx Jewish and my mom is a small town New Hampshire self-described WASP, and they met at UNH in Durham and fell in love. And that was, that was that story. I have one sister, older sister, and she now lives in Philadelphia with her kids.\n\nWe saw both sides of the family very frequently. My mother's family all were still in New England, so closer, and we spent summers all together in one house at the beach with my grandmother and grandfather and the four of us and my mother's sister and her family, four more people. Um, and when the nearby cousins would all come in, we'd have 17 people around the dining room table. I grew up running wild in the woods in the afternoons, which I don't think kids are allowed to do these days anymore, and being encouraged to be intellectually curious. And with a sense of fairness and effort.\n\nOther stories I heard frequently were, my parents had both been involved in protests in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. There were a couple of conscientious objectors, Harvey and Daniels, who were jailed at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, and my folks were leading the protests to, to have them released, so I heard a lot about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. When it came time to go to university, what did you, where did you choose to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started going to university at Smith College and made it a year and dropped out for a semester. Worked teaching environmental ed and then enrolled at Eastern Connecticut State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's where you finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So did you go into Peace Corps as soon as you finished at Eastern Connecticut State, or did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.4322918778696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I started going to university at Smith College and made it a year and dropped out for a semester. Worked teaching environmental ed and then enrolled at Eastern Connecticut State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's where you finished?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's where I finished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. So did you go into Peace Corps as soon as you finished at Eastern Connecticut State, or did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that decision come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.286780096135303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that decision come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I did. No, I did, yeah. I was, I was applying during the end of university. Um, it was, it was just time. It was the next thing. And, um, yeah, it wasn't a conscious decision. It was, it was just what I'm doing next. And I've always been going to do next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that pervasive in your, did your sister also carry that expectation of herself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.540866773483668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think I did. No, I did, yeah. I was, I was applying during the end of university. Um, it was, it was just time. It was the next thing. And, um, yeah, it wasn't a conscious decision. It was, it was just what I'm doing next. And I've always been going to do next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that pervasive in your, did your sister also carry that expectation of herself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a bit. No. She's a, she's a city person. Yeah. Preferably a clean city with lots of coffee on every corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So. All right, so you applied and you must have gotten accepted. How, how did that come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.93429641498185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was that pervasive in your, did your sister also carry that expectation of herself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a bit. No. She's a, she's a city person. Yeah. Preferably a clean city with lots of coffee on every corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So. All right, so you applied and you must have gotten accepted. How, how did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application process, in retrospect, I think is a very good screening tool for whether you have the persistence to make it through service. Um, my application process was seven months long, which I heard from other folks was about average. And, you know, if you're missing a piece of information or a checkbox isn't checked, you wouldn't hear from Peace Corps about it. You just wouldn't have heard from them in a while. So you would call up and ask what's going on. So I think sticking with it and doing your own footwork, um, are requirements from the application process all the way through service. And I don't know if that's conscious on their part or not, but that seems how it worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to persist."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.593662683313166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a bit. No. She's a, she's a city person. Yeah. Preferably a clean city with lots of coffee on every corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So. All right, so you applied and you must have gotten accepted. How, how did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application process, in retrospect, I think is a very good screening tool for whether you have the persistence to make it through service. Um, my application process was seven months long, which I heard from other folks was about average. And, you know, if you're missing a piece of information or a checkbox isn't checked, you wouldn't hear from Peace Corps about it. You just wouldn't have heard from them in a while. So you would call up and ask what's going on. So I think sticking with it and doing your own footwork, um, are requirements from the application process all the way through service. And I don't know if that's conscious on their part or not, but that seems how it worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to persist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you given an option when you applied as to where you might serve, and if so, what, what did you state?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.548514092570183, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The application process, in retrospect, I think is a very good screening tool for whether you have the persistence to make it through service. Um, my application process was seven months long, which I heard from other folks was about average. And, you know, if you're missing a piece of information or a checkbox isn't checked, you wouldn't hear from Peace Corps about it. You just wouldn't have heard from them in a while. So you would call up and ask what's going on. So I think sticking with it and doing your own footwork, um, are requirements from the application process all the way through service. And I don't know if that's conscious on their part or not, but that seems how it worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to persist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you given an option when you applied as to where you might serve, and if so, what, what did you state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They said, as I remember, the form said something about you can indicate a preference. You may or may not get it, which again I understand is very different nowadays. Um, I said mountain or desert or island. I didn't specify a country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty broad. That left them a lot of flexibility. Okay, so what happened? When did you get your invitation and what was your reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.38723788063354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you given an option when you applied as to where you might serve, and if so, what, what did you state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They said, as I remember, the form said something about you can indicate a preference. You may or may not get it, which again I understand is very different nowadays. Um, I said mountain or desert or island. I didn't specify a country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty broad. That left them a lot of flexibility. Okay, so what happened? When did you get your invitation and what was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when exactly in the calendar year I got the invitation, but my reaction was it had, it had been building up for seven months. I don't, I don't remember specifically my reaction. I assume I was pretty excited. And, you know, it went from not a running in place feeling, but a, you know, I'm in the process, I'm applying, I'm applying, I'm applying. And then the momentum shifting forward to I'm going to serve. And I actually, I got my invitation to Haiti first and turned it down. And then I got an invitation to Mauritania and figured I was probably not going to get a third one, so I took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you mind sharing why you rejected the Haiti invitation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.31915320070393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They said, as I remember, the form said something about you can indicate a preference. You may or may not get it, which again I understand is very different nowadays. Um, I said mountain or desert or island. I didn't specify a country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's pretty broad. That left them a lot of flexibility. Okay, so what happened? When did you get your invitation and what was your reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when exactly in the calendar year I got the invitation, but my reaction was it had, it had been building up for seven months. I don't, I don't remember specifically my reaction. I assume I was pretty excited. And, you know, it went from not a running in place feeling, but a, you know, I'm in the process, I'm applying, I'm applying, I'm applying. And then the momentum shifting forward to I'm going to serve. And I actually, I got my invitation to Haiti first and turned it down. And then I got an invitation to Mauritania and figured I was probably not going to get a third one, so I took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you mind sharing why you rejected the Haiti invitation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, political unrest and, um. The country description was pretty heavy on the Christian aspect, which seemed daunting. But then I ended up in the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went from, you were still deeply engrossed in a country that had a major religion associated with it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.35461466744881, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know when exactly in the calendar year I got the invitation, but my reaction was it had, it had been building up for seven months. I don't, I don't remember specifically my reaction. I assume I was pretty excited. And, you know, it went from not a running in place feeling, but a, you know, I'm in the process, I'm applying, I'm applying, I'm applying. And then the momentum shifting forward to I'm going to serve. And I actually, I got my invitation to Haiti first and turned it down. And then I got an invitation to Mauritania and figured I was probably not going to get a third one, so I took it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you mind sharing why you rejected the Haiti invitation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, political unrest and, um. The country description was pretty heavy on the Christian aspect, which seemed daunting. But then I ended up in the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went from, you were still deeply engrossed in a country that had a major religion associated with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different to my own. I mean, the U.S. is fairly Christian as well. I don't know if it would show up in somebody else's literature as such, but I was raised Jewish, so I've always felt that contrast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you started your training in September of 2000. Was that also the year you graduated from Eastern Connecticut State, or had you worked a year or so before, or a while before you, um, joined Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.616238519387565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As I remember, political unrest and, um. The country description was pretty heavy on the Christian aspect, which seemed daunting. But then I ended up in the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went from, you were still deeply engrossed in a country that had a major religion associated with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different to my own. I mean, the U.S. is fairly Christian as well. I don't know if it would show up in somebody else's literature as such, but I was raised Jewish, so I've always felt that contrast."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you started your training in September of 2000. Was that also the year you graduated from Eastern Connecticut State, or had you worked a year or so before, or a while before you, um, joined Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that must have been when I graduated, because I graduated high school in '95. And I must have had some kind of odd job. I've always worked. I always had, you know, something, but I can't remember what that might have been. I didn't have my first real job until I got back, because I remember showing Peace Corps pictures to my colleagues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, um, talk about training. Where did, where did you train? And, um, you were needing to leave your family too. Was there any, anything you remember particularly, uh, um, unusual about saying goodbye to your family and being off to the country, or off to training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.950699451959506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Oh, and a madala. Uh, a madala is like a seven foot long, three foot wide piece of foam with a with a cloth sewed over it. It's a portable bed. It's in the, in the hot season, or most times if it's not raining, you take your madala outside to sleep. And we also got a mosquito net. And maybe a pillow, and I think it was stuffed with plastic bags, very crinkly and not very soft. So we learned how to use all these things, and we learned how to name all these things. In some of the language lessons we'd sit and talk with each other, and some of them we'd go to the market with an assignment to practice a certain set of vocabulary words.\n\nWe had old volunteers come in, sometimes leading the technical trainings, sometimes cultural things. We were very busy. There were vaccinations now and then. A lot of meals together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were. In my stage group, there was the ag-fo, the agro- forestry group, and there was also small business, small enterprise development or SED. So there was ag-fo and there was SED and there were fairly different kinds of people. If you just think of like farmers and finance people broadly, but all of, all of those farmers and finance people are the kind of people who go to Peace Corps. So we had more in common than not. But maybe, maybe 20 in ag-fo and maybe 15 in SED?\n\nAnd by the end of stage, of training, half of the group had ET'd, had early terminated service and gone home. And I think that was just half of the ag-fo. I'm not sure if that was SED and ag-fo. And the interesting part was of the ag-fo who remained and entered service, half of us extended for a third year. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many, if you, if in your cohort you had 20 people initially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe? No idea if that's an accurate number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And about half of them, so maybe as many as ten left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.223085743159885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe? No idea if that's an accurate number."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. And about half of them, so maybe as many as ten left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. And that may be an exaggeration. I don't know who I could possibly check it with. There's no Peace Corps in Mauritania anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They closed the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So and what was your sense about why they left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.692317492399871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe. And that may be an exaggeration. I don't know who I could possibly check it with. There's no Peace Corps in Mauritania anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They closed the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So and what was your sense about why they left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody told us. I don't know if it was the director. It was somebody, some staff member, an American staff member said that Mauritania was considered a hardship country in Peace Corps. Um, and I think the things that would make it so, if that was accurate, would be the weather. Um, you know, it's the Sahara Desert. So in the hot season, it's 120 degrees for several months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And no air conditioning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.102574991555413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. They closed the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So and what was your sense about why they left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somebody told us. I don't know if it was the director. It was somebody, some staff member, an American staff member said that Mauritania was considered a hardship country in Peace Corps. Um, and I think the things that would make it so, if that was accurate, would be the weather. Um, you know, it's the Sahara Desert. So in the hot season, it's 120 degrees for several months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And no air conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No air conditioning. No, I mean, there's air conditioning if you make friends with the European NGOs and go visit them at their houses. Or if you, um, are in the capital, um.\n\nReligious proselytizing, kind of well-meant harassment. I never felt unsafe because of religion, but it would, it would just pop up and pop up. You know, you were having a normal conversation, or what I felt was a normal conversation about the trees we were planting, or town gossip or the weather or just, you know, um. And I would often, at first it was being blindsided. And then later I got kind of cynical, and I'd wait for it, for someone to encourage me to pray to Allah and sometimes with a visual aid. I, more than once somebody lit a lighter and pointed at the flame to illustrate that if I did not become Muslim, that I was going to the fire. So there was that.\n\nBut they, but the, the harassment there, at least because they were so strictly religious, there wasn't physical harassment. Like men would not touch a woman they weren't related to in public, um, at least. You know, people had people climbing over the walls because there's, uh, perceptions of who we are and what we're like because of where we come from and how we dress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that just a bit. What were those perceptions?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.45294161188144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there was lots of, lots of hissing and whistling kind of sexual harassment, but no grabbing. That was the difference. And I didn't travel much, um, while I was there. I wish I'd traveled more around the continent. But friends who went to, you know, Morocco and Nigeria and South Africa said that the physical harassment was much more aggressive, that people would actually grab you and pinch you and so on. And that really didn't happen in Mauritania.\n\nAnd I could use it to my advantage. Once I learned Hassaniya, I was in the market once, and a man was kind of following me in a, in a sleazy way and going [hisses], um. And I sat down with the market women, just plunked down and shouted in Hassaniya, I don't know you! Why are you talking to me? You're not from my family. You're not from my village. Stop talking to me! And the women all gave it to him. They were yelling at him and telling him to leave this decent girl alone and so on. You know, I'd become culturally literate enough to know what buttons to press to get help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did, did you sit on that day, did you sit among women you knew or were these, knew, these were women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in the city. And they didn't know you and you didn't know them, but you sat with them and shouted out at him, called him out for what he was doing, and they joined you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.84313779244622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was in the city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in the city. And they didn't know you and you didn't know them, but you sat with them and shouted out at him, called him out for what he was doing, and they joined you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. They found my, my behavior appropriate. And I mean, they may have known me by sight because I, when I would go into the capital, I would, I would go wandering in the market frequently. And that was one of, one of my spots to kind of ground. And I need a lot of alone time, or like wandering, exploring kind of time. And that was just, walking around the city was one way to do that. So I had been in that in that space many times, but I didn't. There was only a few people that I spoke to regularly, and we knew each other by name and face, like there was the money changers I always went to. I knew them, um, and there was a couple of women who made cloth, but most, most people, I was just in my own head. I wasn't, I didn't, um, make as many personal connections in retrospect as I wish I would have. I had, I got stuck in my own experience. I wish I had, I had opened up more and sulked less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you cover your hair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wore kind of a kind of a fisherman's hat, like a, like a cap with a brim all the way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And put your hair inside of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.82570865827358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. They found my, my behavior appropriate. And I mean, they may have known me by sight because I, when I would go into the capital, I would, I would go wandering in the market frequently. And that was one of, one of my spots to kind of ground. And I need a lot of alone time, or like wandering, exploring kind of time. And that was just, walking around the city was one way to do that. So I had been in that in that space many times, but I didn't. There was only a few people that I spoke to regularly, and we knew each other by name and face, like there was the money changers I always went to. I knew them, um, and there was a couple of women who made cloth, but most, most people, I was just in my own head. I wasn't, I didn't, um, make as many personal connections in retrospect as I wish I would have. I had, I got stuck in my own experience. I wish I had, I had opened up more and sulked less."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you cover your hair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I wore kind of a kind of a fisherman's hat, like a, like a cap with a brim all the way around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And put your hair inside of it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I had a ponytail coming out the back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was ok, that was acceptable to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.310484161368052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I want to describe the context of a few images that, that recur to me when I think about Peace Corps from training. One image is, I think I was off to language class in the morning and the daughter of the house was, could be 12 or 13, and she was doing something menial and gross with the dishes. I think she was scrubbing them with sand or something. It was her job to do that every day. She was kind of the, the workhorse, but she was, she was the daughter of the family and did a lot of work. Um, richer families would actually have slaves, literal slaves that which still exist in Mauritania. And like, I can talk more about that later. But this was, you know, she just got the crap jobs because she was the youngest female.\n\nAnd I remember her watching me leave for class. And just something about, I don't, I don't think I ever spoke to her much. She showed me how to carry water on my head, but other than logistics. But, you know, maybe I was, maybe I made this up and maybe I really saw it, but it seemed like she was looking at me just from, from another world. And I think about what is she doing now and the chances I have had and the resources I have consumed, and just the magnitude of the difference in our lives. And I don't even remember her name, but I remember her looking at me that morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did, could you read her expression?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I read from it. I don't know if that was me projecting or if she was just kind of glancing up and I caught it in a moment of intensity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And I'm going to see if I can interpret what your, what you were reading, which was perhaps a mix of, of, um, resentment because you were doing something that she, that was totally out of her reach. Does that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that resonates. Maybe, maybe envy, maybe resentment, maybe just curiosity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she literate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.344982401520056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's what I read from it. I don't know if that was me projecting or if she was just kind of glancing up and I caught it in a moment of intensity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And I'm going to see if I can interpret what your, what you were reading, which was perhaps a mix of, of, um, resentment because you were doing something that she, that was totally out of her reach. Does that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that resonates. Maybe, maybe envy, maybe resentment, maybe just curiosity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she literate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. But I think, you know, to the, to probably, she probably went to school until puberty hit. So whatever writing you can get in in that time. And I think, I think only boys went to madrassas and learned to read and write the Quran, or at least just memorize it. They may not have actually read and written, but I don't think girls were sent to Koranic study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said there was another image, or a few more images from training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.164511509966395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it stood out as a word from the flow of language. You know, when you don't know a language, it's just a, it's just a river of sound. And then when you can pull words and meaning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it's a breakthrough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a breakthrough in language learning. Yeah. So are we ready to yank you out of your comfort, shall we say, comfortable training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was about to go on a tangent about language instruction in the U.S. versus in Peace Corps and school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we have time, let's get back to that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.960568344407104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a breakthrough in language learning. Yeah. So are we ready to yank you out of your comfort, shall we say, comfortable training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was about to go on a tangent about language instruction in the U.S. versus in Peace Corps and school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we have time, let's get back to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's take you to your first assignment. Or maybe it was your."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.956187049341224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was about to go on a tangent about language instruction in the U.S. versus in Peace Corps and school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if we have time, let's get back to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's take you to your first assignment. Or maybe it was your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only assignment. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.72909672149025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But let's take you to your first assignment. Or maybe it was your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only assignment. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in the regional capital of Ayoun el Atrous in the Hodh El Gharbi region, which is the next to last governorate going east from Nouakchott. It's about, I don't know, 200 miles inland from the Atlantic coast. And regional capital, so, you know, the high school and the airport. And by the end of my service, there was an internet cafe. The new volunteers were coming in with laptops, which was bizarre to us. Um, and that's all, that's all normal now. Um, I don't know how many people live there. I want to say around 10,000 if you count the skirting villages.\n\nAnd I can't remember if we were assigned a host family when we got there. The village volunteers were because they had to have somewhere to live. And I, I didn't end up having a host family that I lived with the whole time in service. Um. I rented a few different rooms, and I was friends with a couple of families that I would visit regularly, but I didn't have my host family as assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The rooms that you rented, were they in family homes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.587885246100278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only assignment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only assignment. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was in the regional capital of Ayoun el Atrous in the Hodh El Gharbi region, which is the next to last governorate going east from Nouakchott. It's about, I don't know, 200 miles inland from the Atlantic coast. And regional capital, so, you know, the high school and the airport. And by the end of my service, there was an internet cafe. The new volunteers were coming in with laptops, which was bizarre to us. Um, and that's all, that's all normal now. Um, I don't know how many people live there. I want to say around 10,000 if you count the skirting villages.\n\nAnd I can't remember if we were assigned a host family when we got there. The village volunteers were because they had to have somewhere to live. And I, I didn't end up having a host family that I lived with the whole time in service. Um. I rented a few different rooms, and I was friends with a couple of families that I would visit regularly, but I didn't have my host family as assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The rooms that you rented, were they in family homes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. yeah. They didn't have non, there wasn't a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A commercial kind of leasing opportunity. So you just rented a private home from a private family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 22.94800647666701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. yeah. They didn't have non, there wasn't a hotel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A commercial kind of leasing opportunity. So you just rented a private home from a private family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a room in the compound, in the courtyard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I lived in the maison de passage for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.878813408575946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Potatoes. Lots of potatoes that most, I think they came up from Mali. Potatoes and onions were really the only vegetables. So maybe this goes back to the comment about it being a hardship country is the food. Um, a lot of couscous and rice, uh, dressed with, um, I would call it rancid. There's probably some culinary term for doing this on purpose to butter and milk, but sour milk and sour melted butter as, as dressing. Sour milk. Um, and people in Mauritania say they're, in the, in the hot season, they go out to the countryside and graze with the animals and drink milk. And people commonly say, I'm going to drink milk. And we learned that in training.\n\nOne of the old volunteers was taking us on a, on a walk or, you know, a language, just around, around the town where we were having training. And somebody called out, where are you going? In Hassaniya, and he was translating this for us later. And he answered, we're going to drink milk. And they cracked up, the whole family that was, you know, being neighborly nosy of where you're going. They thought that was the greatest thing, because that's the common answer. Like going to drink milk is a, is a, that's how you describe going to your country home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which means that they would be able to get fresh milk every day from those animals. They didn't have to worry about refrigeration, and they didn't have to worry about sour milk because it would be fresh from the animals."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they don't mind sour milk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're used to it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.976459342862162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they don't mind sour milk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're used to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was a treat."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.084954825402402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're used to it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was a treat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, a seasonal treat. So we're going out to the Badia to drink milk and, yeah. And year round people drink zorig which is, um, either condensed milk or sour milk from cow or camel or sheep or what have you, um, watered down with a lot of sugar and whisked. And it's pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say it sounds good to me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.316616472669336, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But this was a treat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, a seasonal treat. So we're going out to the Badia to drink milk and, yeah. And year round people drink zorig which is, um, either condensed milk or sour milk from cow or camel or sheep or what have you, um, watered down with a lot of sugar and whisked. And it's pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say it sounds good to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, sour milk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I like sour milk. I mean, I eat yogurt, you know, that's sour milk, one form."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.68512941407704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, a seasonal treat. So we're going out to the Badia to drink milk and, yeah. And year round people drink zorig which is, um, either condensed milk or sour milk from cow or camel or sheep or what have you, um, watered down with a lot of sugar and whisked. And it's pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to say it sounds good to me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, sour milk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I like sour milk. I mean, I eat yogurt, you know, that's sour milk, one form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Cultured."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.094588237863377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, sour milk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I like sour milk. I mean, I eat yogurt, you know, that's sour milk, one form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Cultured."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there's couscous and zorig, potatoes and onions, and meshwi, which is, um, I guess you'd call it barbecued. Uh, you could, if you're on the road, if you're on the Road of Hope between towns, or you're in a town, you can recognize a restaurant because they would have a goat carcass skinned and opened with the ribs hanging from the outside of the, of the thatch structure. So that's a restaurant if they have the goat displayed. So you go in and order meshwi and they hack off a chunk of it and put it on the coals and cook it. And that was the protein available. And then for a few weeks, I don't remember what time of year, but there were mangoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, um, talk a bit about how you, you were trained, you were introduced to the language, you got to your assignment. And how did you go about trying to work? Did you have a host country counterpart? And how did you work with that person? And what kinds of projects were either underway or that you worked with to initiate perhaps? Or how did you go about ingratiating yourself into the community and a work project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.590656019016976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had a counterpart at the Ministry of Agriculture, which isn't the right title. I can't remember the full, exactly how they called it. Um, but he was, I think, the equivalent of an extension agent. And he was a very, a very curious person. Um, so besides the mud stoves, which is, which is a formed, customized ring of cooled mud, um, dried, that you put your cooking pot in so that you're using less wood for fuel. A lot of places the women are walking for hours and hours and hours, the majority of their day, to pick up what twigs they can. So this is supposed to save, save wood because it's not an open fire. It's got a big opening and a little opening on the other side, and the, it's more efficient use of fuel. And in the cook pot fits right into the ring, kind of, um, not quite airtight. So that was one project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so, just so that I get, help me get the image. The clay was formed into a bowl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, on the ground you would build a ring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A ring in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then how did you get the wood, or did you put the wood in the bottom?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.878506687796637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, on the ground you would build a ring."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A ring in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And then how did you get the wood, or did you put the wood in the bottom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And on, on, on one side in the ring. You know, imagine it like city walls. There's gates and there's a big gate on one side and a tiny gate relatively on the opposite side. Um, so the big one was big enough to poke in a few sticks at a time, so you'd start your fire, then put the cook pot on top. So it was, it was for a specific pot, and it was permanent in location. And one of the women that I was, became close with, it was, they were kind of like my friend host family. I spent the most time hanging out with them and got the honorary name of that family. They would address me as Liz Jara. Um, and they were the Jara family. Remind, remind me to talk about Jaras and Jallows and the last name joking relationship thing, which you may have already heard about if you talk to people who are in West Africa. Um, beans is the, is the key there.\n\nUm, so the Jaras, uh, the mom explained that she moves her pot around the yard, whether she's dyeing clothes or cooking food or, you know, doing different things. And based on what the wind is doing, where the sun is. She doesn't want to be out in the middle of the sun. She's going to move it over under the shade of the wall and so on. And I remember that being kind of a revelation about appropriate technology and this, this key way of functioning was something that this apparently Africa wide, as far as I knew, Peace Corps projects had not told us about or taken into account, and they were promoting the mud stoves. Um, and maybe she was unusual in how much she moved it around, but I don't, I don't think so from what I saw."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was her cooking point a mud stove, in essence, or did she just?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.66598996954271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three stones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just stones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three stones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three stones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, that particular, uh, engineering, if you will, would have burned more fuel because it had so much draft."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.587641937707048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that, that particular, uh, engineering, if you will, would have burned more fuel because it had so much draft."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep, yep. More fuel. But she could move it where she wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't know where they got wood there were, there were not trees around, it was the Sahara. There was a few trees. There were also, another project that made me suspicious, um, of what I was doing there was that the trees, Prosopis juliflora, was highly promoted. It has a very, it's very fast growing. It has a long taproot. It had been promoted for a decade or two before I got there. And I think right around when I was getting there, they were realizing that these, or maybe, maybe a little after I was there, uh, people were realizing that these trees grew so fast and so deep that they were drying up wells, they were drinking the wells. So, again, something that, you know, we thought, we being the establishment that I was there as a part of, we knew best and put it on people, um, who had been encouraged to think that we knew best. So the whole, the post- colonial stuff, um, was troubling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Persisted. Right. So when you became aware of some of these things, did you loop that information back into the Peace Corps offices and talk about trying to re, redo the approach or rethink this particular project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.080033160923415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Right. Even though it was exactly the opposite of the emphasis you wanted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I couldn't, you know, uh, nay say that. Um, and then, you know, I handed it off to a couple other volunteers because I had really, um. I just burned out on that project, so I handed it off to incoming volunteers once they'd been there, you know, a few months and knew people and were willing to. And, um, when I later heard that, you know, the officials took a computer or two and it was, it was just a resource, uh, for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the center. So your involvement then extended over some months, or was that during your third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was during my mid second to mid third year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you stayed involved in helping to sort of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.20003684547046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I couldn't, you know, uh, nay say that. Um, and then, you know, I handed it off to a couple other volunteers because I had really, um. I just burned out on that project, so I handed it off to incoming volunteers once they'd been there, you know, a few months and knew people and were willing to. And, um, when I later heard that, you know, the officials took a computer or two and it was, it was just a resource, uh, for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the center. So your involvement then extended over some months, or was that during your third year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was during my mid second to mid third year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you stayed involved in helping to sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little, very little."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So mostly it was run by local people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.252451091180328, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Local people and volunteers. Yeah. There were two, uh, volunteers in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I think we were we were too few and too new and, um, they didn't have enough local support. And I don't know if it's still open or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know the one in Kiffa, the next regional capital over, um, that went for a while. Like they were able to hand it off to next volunteers, next volunteers. Where I think, I think there was a gap in service in Ayoun too. And I think all the, all the materials, my guess is that they just went into various offices or homes or wherever. Or maybe, maybe, maybe they're still going. Maybe there was an innovative teacher who got into it. You never know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Right. There's so many more things we can talk about, but just a couple of things that come to mind in terms of your service there. And, um, what about contact with home during the time that you were serving, those three years? Did you, did you come home at all? Did you have visitors from home at to your site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.343470646517796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Yeah. No, but I went home twice. Um, yeah. To a wedding. To a couple of weddings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that was my only visitor from away. And then there were volunteers from other countries who would come through, and they would. That was great. We would get to meet people from other countries and compare notes, and they would all go, oh, Mauritania. And we'd, we'd feel very tough. Um, and then one of ours, one of our guys lost his mind and went wandering around West Africa under an assumed name and like possible criminal activity. And so, like all of Peace Corps West Africa was looking for this guy. So that was kind of exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, he was one of, one of your cohort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 12.603856273908661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that was my only visitor from away. And then there were volunteers from other countries who would come through, and they would. That was great. We would get to meet people from other countries and compare notes, and they would all go, oh, Mauritania. And we'd, we'd feel very tough. Um, and then one of ours, one of our guys lost his mind and went wandering around West Africa under an assumed name and like possible criminal activity. And so, like all of Peace Corps West Africa was looking for this guy. So that was kind of exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, he was one of, one of your cohort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Absolutely."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.337618082120735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like I said, I didn't travel much around the continent, and I wish I had when I still had all my vaccinations and I was used to that mode of travel and could be comfortable, you know, sleeping with a pair of shoes for a pillow. Um. So I went, you know, a few times. So I went down to, we went across the Mali border, um, just to a town that was there. And we went to the West Africa Invitational Softball Tournament in Dakar. And apparently Mauritania had been banned, Peace Corps Mauritania had been banned from WAIST, this softball tournament, previously for debauchery. So we had a reputation to uphold. Um, so, you know, we played softball, we didn't drink water. Um, we drank, uh, Gazelle beer, which is mostly water. So we weren't too dehydrated the whole, the whole time we were in Senegal. Um, we streaked the Marine house party, you know, we made sure we were memorable and upheld the honor of Peace Corps Mauritania, at least the volunteers thereof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't get booted out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.15290898013415, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So like I said, I didn't travel much around the continent, and I wish I had when I still had all my vaccinations and I was used to that mode of travel and could be comfortable, you know, sleeping with a pair of shoes for a pillow. Um. So I went, you know, a few times. So I went down to, we went across the Mali border, um, just to a town that was there. And we went to the West Africa Invitational Softball Tournament in Dakar. And apparently Mauritania had been banned, Peace Corps Mauritania had been banned from WAIST, this softball tournament, previously for debauchery. So we had a reputation to uphold. Um, so, you know, we played softball, we didn't drink water. Um, we drank, uh, Gazelle beer, which is mostly water. So we weren't too dehydrated the whole, the whole time we were in Senegal. Um, we streaked the Marine house party, you know, we made sure we were memorable and upheld the honor of Peace Corps Mauritania, at least the volunteers thereof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't get booted out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we got cheered. And we also got beat by the high school girls in softball, shockingly, because we were all, you know, malnourished and half drunk. So. So yeah. I pitched one no-hitter. And then we were, we were kind of got wiped out by everybody after that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a pitcher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.954208617449567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we got cheered. And we also got beat by the high school girls in softball, shockingly, because we were all, you know, malnourished and half drunk. So. So yeah. I pitched one no-hitter. And then we were, we were kind of got wiped out by everybody after that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a pitcher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not MVP. That was the person who somehow managed to catch a ball without dropping their beer or their pizza. To this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a memorable trip, I can tell."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.949120686055073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not MVP. That was the person who somehow managed to catch a ball without dropping their beer or their pizza. To this day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a memorable trip, I can tell."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wish I'd gone on the coal train. You know, it's the longest passenger train in the world goes across from somewhere in northern Mauritania. And the people who went on it, they, they just threw out their clothes after. There's no ever washing them clean of coal dust. Um, but they said it was, it was an amazing trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't clean out their lungs, though, could they?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.282865044512434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wish I'd gone on the coal train. You know, it's the longest passenger train in the world goes across from somewhere in northern Mauritania. And the people who went on it, they, they just threw out their clothes after. There's no ever washing them clean of coal dust. Um, but they said it was, it was an amazing trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't clean out their lungs, though, could they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had, uh, face masks. Well, they had their howley across their face, uh, the men's piece of cloth. And the women had a scarf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.647627827236038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they had, uh, face masks. Well, they had their howley across their face, uh, the men's piece of cloth. And the women had a scarf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really to make the two years have been worth it, to feel like I had established a project. The moringa trees were really taking off. There was interest where there had not been interest or what I felt like success in with my other projects. Although properly scientific, you would say that discovering that the bio-gas wasn't going to work at a household level is a valid scientific result, and therefore a success in some sense. But I wanted to see something work. And people were getting into it. People's grandmothers remembered moringa, um, but it had gotten drier, so they, they didn't have it anymore. Um, so yeah, that was taking off. So Chun let me have space in his garden and I then, then I went, I got Mahmoud to introduce me to the gardening cooperatives. I went out to some villages and just introduced it. And if people provided a safe space for the trees, for the seedlings, then I would give them seedlings and fence. And the fencing was, was pretty precious. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it made of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.164030919151154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really to make the two years have been worth it, to feel like I had established a project. The moringa trees were really taking off. There was interest where there had not been interest or what I felt like success in with my other projects. Although properly scientific, you would say that discovering that the bio-gas wasn't going to work at a household level is a valid scientific result, and therefore a success in some sense. But I wanted to see something work. And people were getting into it. People's grandmothers remembered moringa, um, but it had gotten drier, so they, they didn't have it anymore. Um, so yeah, that was taking off. So Chun let me have space in his garden and I then, then I went, I got Mahmoud to introduce me to the gardening cooperatives. I went out to some villages and just introduced it. And if people provided a safe space for the trees, for the seedlings, then I would give them seedlings and fence. And the fencing was, was pretty precious. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it made of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just like, like fencing. Like almost like we'd see here. Like a lighter, a lighter metal. But, uh, think of, like, a elementary school baseball field."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there would be metal poles?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.801139806791703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Metal poles. And then kind of a big woven mesh between. Very awkward to transport. It was much lighter than that because I was able to carry a roll. I wouldn't be able to carry a roll of that kind of fencing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and those are the trees that I think cynically now that the fencing was to keep the goats out of their kitchen. Um, and they probably, yeah, let that, let the goats have the moringa trees. Maybe. Maybe not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you'll have a chance to go back and check it out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.77904422976856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and those are the trees that I think cynically now that the fencing was to keep the goats out of their kitchen. Um, and they probably, yeah, let that, let the goats have the moringa trees. Maybe. Maybe not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe you'll have a chance to go back and check it out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope! I don't think I will go back. Um. Some folks have gone back. I'm part of the Facebook Peace Corps RIM, République Islamique de Mauritanie. So some people report back that they've been there, and some people are still very much in touch with their host family or with friends that they made. One of our language teachers, was one of, one of the activists against slavery in Mauritania, and he's been jailed several times. So we were all kind of following that and writing letters for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is a Mauritanian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.760005802151657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Ibrahim. Yeah. And he's out as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Courageous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And they, they still, they've outlawed slavery multiple times, but you know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um. You're quite emphatic about that, about what, that. Of this simply saying you don't plan to go back. Is there a reason you're, you're feeling, you feel so strongly about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.155323000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "School for International Training, SIT in Brattleboro. And that's actually what brought me to Brattleboro. And I've been here ever since. Because it was supposed to be all in country, but they pulled us out in September. So January, it was supposed to be January to December. In September, just before our main research phase, we had to come up with our research questions and taking classes and, you know, program design, evaluation, all that stuff. Um, so everybody who managed to graduate, um, had a pretty robust section in their thesis on limitations of the research. And I ended, I ended up doing. I could go on all day about this as well. There's a lot to say, but I did a participatory evaluation of an after school program. So with the help of a translator, asked the after school program staff in the village where I was assigned. It was very much a Peace Corps model, and SIT was where Peace Corps training started, as you know. Um, so we were in five different villages. Mine was in the war zone. I didn't know that at the time. Um, yeah. Pilot program. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just as a small clarification. Uh, SIT is where Peace Corps training for Asia began."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Specifically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.061470000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Specifically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for Asia, it was at SIT."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.0683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for Asia, it was at SIT."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. And I thought it was also where the language training model was developed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The model. Yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00094:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 11.187000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But for Asia, it was at SIT."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. And I thought it was also where the language training model was developed?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The model. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Definitely the model for language training for all across the board. All Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.895611532543963, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was a volunteer in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When was that, Cynthia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was between the years 1965 through 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting, OK. Remind me to bring that up again later. All right, Cynthia, what were you doing when you first got the idea that Peace Corps might be a great thing to do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.871125348819707, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was between the years 1965 through 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's interesting, OK. Remind me to bring that up again later. All right, Cynthia, what were you doing when you first got the idea that Peace Corps might be a great thing to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a student at the University of Buffalo studying to become a teacher. And at that time, President John F. Kennedy had started talking about, you know, the Peace Corps. And I remember one of his speeches said, ask not what you can do. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, at that time they had some representatives, I guess, from the Peace Corps that would come out to the university. And I started attending their meetings to find out really what this was all about. Now technically, it took me five years to go through the university. I had a difficult time the first year. Um. So I don't know, I guess I could chalk up the first year in college and until I finally made up my mind or was able to get into a program, because at that time I was thinking I would be a teacher, but what kind of a teacher? That was the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A good one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.260822052765898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there was the, um, our Black revolution going on with Martin Luther King. And, you know, I wasn't actually actively involved, but I was aware of what was going on. Um. And also at the school, you know, as a young person trying to find myself, so things that I may have had a little bit of interest in, I would at least go to their meetings to, you know, to find out what was going on. And also, I remember at that time they always had different people come out to school. And maybe we were sitting on the lawn there, for example, and someone would come up to you and say, do you have any comments that you would like to say about such and such and such? You know. Also, let's see.\n\nMy high school background was in music. So I used to play the piano and the accordion. There again, I didn't see myself doing that much with those two instruments. The piano, for example, you had to be the very, very best, I've always thought, in order to get something going. So it kind of left me up in the air as to what was I going to study? So I ended up in this business, and then going to different activities because there was so much going on on the campus. And then also the fact that I'm African American and there were so few of us. Um. Out of that student body, I think there must have been about 20,000 students. And at that time the school was known as University of Buffalo. They had not even gone with the state yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think there were maybe all of 10 of us who were students and that lived in the city of Buffalo and would commute back and forth, because we would always meet at the student union, you know. And to this day, if I see them, they are, we all know each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were African Americans who stayed on the campus, but because they were in the dorm, it was difficult to get to know them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had a different social center."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.186312829582849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. So our little lives kind of dealt around just that 10 of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I guess we did the best we could as far as being there on the campus and so few of us. But anyway, when all of these different things were going on and they came with the Peace Corps and I would go to the meetings. And I think it was then when I graduated from the applied sciences degree, um, I remember sending an application in to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had studied also French. I had two years of French in high school and I had taken a year of French in college. And so when I applied, they immediately sent me a thing indicating that I was to go to some country in West Africa, a French speaking country. But see, I still had in my mind I needed this other education. So I turned it down. I didn't go that year. So I continued my education and I continued going to their meetings whenever they would have those things on the campus. And then when I graduated in 1965, then I reapplied. And one of the questions on the application form was, where do you want to go? Well, I didn't know where I wanted to go because I didn't know that much about Africa. All I know is I wanted to go to Africa. And I think I put down some countries like South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they said sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7625698106476095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I guess we did the best we could as far as being there on the campus and so few of us. But anyway, when all of these different things were going on and they came with the Peace Corps and I would go to the meetings. And I think it was then when I graduated from the applied sciences degree, um, I remember sending an application in to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had studied also French. I had two years of French in high school and I had taken a year of French in college. And so when I applied, they immediately sent me a thing indicating that I was to go to some country in West Africa, a French speaking country. But see, I still had in my mind I needed this other education. So I turned it down. I didn't go that year. So I continued my education and I continued going to their meetings whenever they would have those things on the campus. And then when I graduated in 1965, then I reapplied. And one of the questions on the application form was, where do you want to go? Well, I didn't know where I wanted to go because I didn't know that much about Africa. All I know is I wanted to go to Africa. And I think I put down some countries like South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they said sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The person looked at me and said, oh no, I don't think you can go there. So I said, well, wherever you think would be the best place for me. And they chose Ethiopia. So that's how I got to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you found out fairly quickly, is that? I mean, you said you graduated like May of '65 and you had already done your application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.1142837168489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The person looked at me and said, oh no, I don't think you can go there. So I said, well, wherever you think would be the best place for me. And they chose Ethiopia. So that's how I got to go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you found out fairly quickly, is that? I mean, you said you graduated like May of '65 and you had already done your application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I had already sent the application in before I graduated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had two things. I had a choice there. I had been accepted to teach in the Buffalo city schools. I'd taken the test and whatever I needed, I was ready and set to teach. And also, I had applied to the Peace Corps, so I had an option there of what I wanted to do and I chose to go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any conclusions on why you went that way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.548498415862839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had two things. I had a choice there. I had been accepted to teach in the Buffalo city schools. I'd taken the test and whatever I needed, I was ready and set to teach. And also, I had applied to the Peace Corps, so I had an option there of what I wanted to do and I chose to go to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any conclusions on why you went that way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I grew up, I wasn't born in the city of Buffalo, but I grew up here. My parents moved here from the South and their goal was that all of the children should get an education. You know, just like Martin Luther King, we need an education to advance ourselves and so forth, coming out of that era. And as a result, my father was very, very strict on us. There were two of us at that time, and then later I had a younger sister. And coming from a very strict family, we were not allowed to participate in a lot of things that I would see other young people participating in. And so when the Peace Corps came up, I said."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Freedom!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is my way out. I want to see the world. I want to visit and want to go other places. I've got to do this first. And that's what I chose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Dad's reaction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.754608163180671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And um, so anyway, I chose to go ahead with this to Utah, and I knew that Salt Lake City was a very racist type of a place, and uh, with the Mormons being there. But I figured, well, you know, go ahead. Now, another thing that really bothered me back then is I wanted someone to be with me. I didn't want to go alone. And all the time that I was going to the Peace Corps meetings in college, I had a few girlfriends, you know, and I asked one girl in particular because she and I were very close. I said, I think I'm going to join the Peace Corps. Why don't you join also? And she says, oh no. She says, I have a boyfriend and I'm planning on getting married. I'm not going anywhere. And so I said, well, OK. So she went her direction and I went mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, were you a little nervous about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was, because I left here. It was my first plane ride. First plane ride alone leaving Buffalo going to an unknown place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Salt Lake City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Checking them out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2828979590896346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was, because I left here. It was my first plane ride. First plane ride alone leaving Buffalo going to an unknown place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Salt Lake City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Checking them out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.869886621210705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Checking them out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.410985134678561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other New York state, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.90109459408729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other New York state, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York City, ah, that's a long ways away from here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.334549548985878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other New York state, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yeah. New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York City, ah, that's a long ways away from here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But no one from Buffalo. And I always even to this day, like Eleanor, I finally met Eleanor, you know, and it's like, finally get someone. But where all the other people, you know? But that experience in the training was very enlightening for me. I got an opportunity to meet people from all over the United States. Even though Utah, Salt Lake City, was an experience, at least I got to go to the tabernacle there and to see that and to listen to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they make you feel comfortable as an African American there? Were your fears put aside?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.129073517266516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But no one from Buffalo. And I always even to this day, like Eleanor, I finally met Eleanor, you know, and it's like, finally get someone. But where all the other people, you know? But that experience in the training was very enlightening for me. I got an opportunity to meet people from all over the United States. Even though Utah, Salt Lake City, was an experience, at least I got to go to the tabernacle there and to see that and to listen to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they make you feel comfortable as an African American there? Were your fears put aside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have them in Salt Lake City?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4767483525183507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have them in Salt Lake City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, see, I have stereotypes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7519426139092786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have them in Salt Lake City?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, see, I have stereotypes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9466029043436428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, see, I have stereotypes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the Great Salt Lake?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.162892115937381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Yeah. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the Great Salt Lake?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you weren't in it alone anymore."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.403213462152645, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the Great Salt Lake?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you weren't in it alone anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we finished the tour and we were studying and it was rigorous. We were supposed to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The language of the country you're going to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6702371801696057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like you weren't in it alone anymore."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So we finished the tour and we were studying and it was rigorous. We were supposed to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The language of the country you're going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And also, they had some of the guys from the country who were supposed to, or who were there to explain to us what it was like to live in their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you find them interesting? Were they open and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.296589111320501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. And also, they had some of the guys from the country who were supposed to, or who were there to explain to us what it was like to live in their country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you find them interesting? Were they open and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got it. Yeah, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.662876790356112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. Yes, they were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got it. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sounds, the smells, the feeling. You don't know that until you are actually in that place. So that part itself was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the language training for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.06986310039568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got it. Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The sounds, the smells, the feeling. You don't know that until you are actually in that place. So that part itself was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was the language training for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the language training for me. Because that's why they had the two programs, I understand. Our program, we were to learn to speak using the phonetics. And the other group I understand, they were taught to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, so you were going to be only verbally?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.126012483395994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The spoken, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Orally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I never got to understand the Amharic alphabet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never ever learned what that alphabet is. And after I got to Addis Ababa, I would ask, you know, people that I was working with or other volunteers or, uh, the maid that was there, you know, what different things were. Or the educated Ethiopians, you know, how to read the language, but we were never taught that. We were taught how to speak the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you do with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6247067696246837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never ever learned what that alphabet is. And after I got to Addis Ababa, I would ask, you know, people that I was working with or other volunteers or, uh, the maid that was there, you know, what different things were. Or the educated Ethiopians, you know, how to read the language, but we were never taught that. We were taught how to speak the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did pretty good with it. And while I was there, I was able to communicate to the help that we had. I was able to also travel downtown, you know, get a taxi and go downtown and buy what I wanted to buy. I could go to the market and bargain with them to get the things that I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.805229744027426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did pretty good with it. And while I was there, I was able to communicate to the help that we had. I was able to also travel downtown, you know, get a taxi and go downtown and buy what I wanted to buy. I could go to the market and bargain with them to get the things that I wanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.00581082669714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. I better not say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2286786963301553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. I better not say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4763096625890615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, let me think. I better not say no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6403440695434017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wax and Gold and another book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you read them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8226045217148907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wax and Gold and another book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you read them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0251161352387674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wax and Gold and another book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you read them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time, I was having too much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Well, that's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.250129039154186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time, I was having too much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Well, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5001433768379844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have time, I was having too much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. Well, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were going to be teaching?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7779370853755383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were going to be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be teaching business courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.086596761528376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were going to be teaching?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be teaching business courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.31844084614264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to be teaching business courses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.576045384602933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I really don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8622726495588147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you'd done student teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1803029439542385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a surprise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you'd done student teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done my student teaching prior to that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least been in the classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.533669937726932, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So but you'd done student teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done my student teaching prior to that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least been in the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some expectations where others may not have."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8151888196965906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had done my student teaching prior to that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you at least been in the classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some expectations where others may not have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, you know, a year, in fact two semesters of student teaching. I'm trying to think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it doesn't matter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1279875774406563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had some expectations where others may not have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, you know, a year, in fact two semesters of student teaching. I'm trying to think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it doesn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were doing American government courses, but most people slept through them in my group. I can't speak for others."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7506019474576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were doing American government courses, but most people slept through them in my group. I can't speak for others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I do remember since we were at the university, we'd have these classes university style, you know, you go into a lecture room and there you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about health preparations, health issues?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0562243860639997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I do remember since we were at the university, we'd have these classes university style, you know, you go into a lecture room and there you are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about health preparations, health issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well prepared for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.395804873404444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about health preparations, health issues?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well prepared for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they gave us quite a bit about the health issues. Now, in fact, part of our training involved swimming. And we had gym classes, you know, exercise classes. I had the swimming classes. Now I guess I didn't do my duty and I'm suffering even to this day. I don't know how to swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever fall into the river in Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.192351695561042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they gave us quite a bit about the health issues. Now, in fact, part of our training involved swimming. And we had gym classes, you know, exercise classes. I had the swimming classes. Now I guess I didn't do my duty and I'm suffering even to this day. I don't know how to swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever fall into the river in Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me tell. Let me tell you. I had made up my mind that I was going to go to the Peace Corps and I said, whatever I have to do, I'm going to do it. There's not going to be any stumbling block. So in high school, I didn't do what I was supposed to do as far as learning how to swim, because I want to mess up my hair and all of this. So I didn't learn how to swim in high school. But when the Peace Corps said, oh yes, you have swimming classes, we're going to teach you how to swim. Then I was doing well. I could even float on my back and turn over and do all these great things. Then one day someone came to, I guess the director of our program, and said, well, they don't really need to know how to swim because the lakes are infested with all kinds of diseases. And then there's the alligators, crocodiles, and what have you, and we don't suggest that they go swimming. So they cut the program. I never learned how. That was the end of my swimming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boil your water, filter your water."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.65816855062338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let me tell. Let me tell you. I had made up my mind that I was going to go to the Peace Corps and I said, whatever I have to do, I'm going to do it. There's not going to be any stumbling block. So in high school, I didn't do what I was supposed to do as far as learning how to swim, because I want to mess up my hair and all of this. So I didn't learn how to swim in high school. But when the Peace Corps said, oh yes, you have swimming classes, we're going to teach you how to swim. Then I was doing well. I could even float on my back and turn over and do all these great things. Then one day someone came to, I guess the director of our program, and said, well, they don't really need to know how to swim because the lakes are infested with all kinds of diseases. And then there's the alligators, crocodiles, and what have you, and we don't suggest that they go swimming. So they cut the program. I never learned how. That was the end of my swimming."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boil your water, filter your water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.175742834025978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Boil your water, filter your water."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were deselected, I think that was the term?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.750825371139975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were deselected, I think that was the term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.389805967933305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were deselected, I think that was the term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, but at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been fine because there you are."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.0997844088147835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe, but at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been fine because there you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't remember. I know we did, as I remember now, we did talk with different people at different times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had these sensitivity training sessions and you were supposed to raise comments about somebody. You know, is there anybody here you're not getting along with? And our group refuse to cooperate. So we played word games until they canceled sensitivity training. But maybe by the time you came along, they decided it was not a very good deal and didn't waste their time. All righty. Anything else you remember about training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.765165936808375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really don't remember. I know we did, as I remember now, we did talk with different people at different times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had these sensitivity training sessions and you were supposed to raise comments about somebody. You know, is there anybody here you're not getting along with? And our group refuse to cooperate. So we played word games until they canceled sensitivity training. But maybe by the time you came along, they decided it was not a very good deal and didn't waste their time. All righty. Anything else you remember about training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Just overall, it was just a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.739073263120416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Just overall, it was just a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.710081403467129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, at the close of the training, we were given our tickets home and they told us what to pack. How to pack, how much we could carry, and so forth. And then when we were to meet in New York City at the Kennedy airport. You need another pen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'm fine, thanks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.98775481909522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, at the close of the training, we were given our tickets home and they told us what to pack. How to pack, how much we could carry, and so forth. And then when we were to meet in New York City at the Kennedy airport. You need another pen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I'm fine, thanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I came home and packed my bags. My family, I think they just kind of looked at me. They didn't really say too much. My mother was always the quiet one, and she went along with whatever her daughter wanted. And I was the oldest. So I was the one who was making the way for the others at the time. And so my father didn't really say too much. You know, he already said, I don't think you should do that. But at this point, you know, I'm an adult, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got myself ready. And we went to New York and we all met at the Kennedy airport. And I think maybe the airport as it is now was not the way it was then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, for sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.244141751969407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I got myself ready. And we went to New York and we all met at the Kennedy airport. And I think maybe the airport as it is now was not the way it was then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, for sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they told us which area to meet, and it was a huge rotunda there so we met, you know, all of us that passed our examinations. We were happy to see each other. So they had a chartered plane for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So at the point in time, because it was in the evening. We didn't leave early in the morning. We left around 6:00 or 7:00, I remember. And here was this chartered plane all full of young, wide eyed, bushy tailed volunteers. So we get on this chartered TWA plane and we head east into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Yes, across the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.271268613299341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they told us which area to meet, and it was a huge rotunda there so we met, you know, all of us that passed our examinations. We were happy to see each other. So they had a chartered plane for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So at the point in time, because it was in the evening. We didn't leave early in the morning. We left around 6:00 or 7:00, I remember. And here was this chartered plane all full of young, wide eyed, bushy tailed volunteers. So we get on this chartered TWA plane and we head east into."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. Yes, across the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Across the ocean. We never slept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, of course not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.620395903016927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We never slept. We were up all night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All excited."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were serving food. Not liquor, but you know, I think they did have or something. People were up playing cards and talking and laughing and walking around to the point that I think at some point, the airplane pilot said, you know, I think you'd better sit down. But they sat down for a while and then people are up walking and talking and just laughing. And that was the first time that I could see the sun come up. And we were going into the sun. It never got dark. It was light, we were going into. We were going into the sun. And so our flight. We left from New York and we went to Athens. And so we were in Athens, I think, for a day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't get to see anything though. I think, I remember we got off the plane. And I'm not too clear whether we even went into the city. I'm kind of foggy about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the group getting a little sleepier at this time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.531352966687564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn't get to see anything though. I think, I remember we got off the plane. And I'm not too clear whether we even went into the city. I'm kind of foggy about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the group getting a little sleepier at this time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm pretty sure. Yes, we did, we got off the plane. They had hotel reservations for us, so we were on again a chartered bus that took us into Athens because I remember seeing bits and pieces of some of the city. And then we spent the night there and had a chance to relax and, you know, eat and so forth. And they talked to us again about going to Ethiopia and what to expect, the climate and the precautions that we should take. So then the next day, we got back on another chartered. It wasn't the same one though. I think it was, um, the Ethiopian Airlines. And so then we left from Athens on that chartered plane. And from there the next thing was, uh, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I don't remember how many hours it was. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the Ethiopian Airlines. Yeah, this picture here. So when we get there, they had told us also that the weather, some of the weather conditions. So in September, we are thinking it's going to be cool. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, off the airplane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.479281074097292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm pretty sure. Yes, we did, we got off the plane. They had hotel reservations for us, so we were on again a chartered bus that took us into Athens because I remember seeing bits and pieces of some of the city. And then we spent the night there and had a chance to relax and, you know, eat and so forth. And they talked to us again about going to Ethiopia and what to expect, the climate and the precautions that we should take. So then the next day, we got back on another chartered. It wasn't the same one though. I think it was, um, the Ethiopian Airlines. And so then we left from Athens on that chartered plane. And from there the next thing was, uh, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I don't remember how many hours it was. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the Ethiopian Airlines. Yeah, this picture here. So when we get there, they had told us also that the weather, some of the weather conditions. So in September, we are thinking it's going to be cool. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, off the airplane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, so we got off Ethiopian Airlines, and then they put us again on a bus. And there were other volunteers on the bus who had already been in Ethiopia for a while, so they met us at the airport. And I guess assisted us in terms of getting all of our things and helping out with that because we were, I noticed most of us that were new, we were seated. And then since they were, they had been in Ethiopia for a while, they were standing up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, that's OK. Just some oil on the paper."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.531597430418066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's why they just walk and they go different places and their clothes are the way they are. But he really didn't explain that. He just, I just remember his comment. Oh, they do that, something to that effect. He didn't really answer my question. And so then we go into the city and they put us up at the Addis Ababa Hotel. And at that point, then that's where we stayed there for several days while they farm us out to our localities, tell us where we're supposed to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you didn't know what your destination, your actual site yet, until you got to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. OK. So some of us were placed in the city. Others were outside of the city in places such as Harar, Irgalem, Debre Birhan. Some up to the north of Addis Ababa. I don't think there were too many that were placed up in Asmara at that time. But each person had their own place that they were to go. Now I was placed in the city of Addis Ababa. And there was another volunteer, her name was Mary Mannigan. She and I were roommates, we ended up as roommates, and we were one of the last to be placed. Because they wanted to get the other people in position. Now as to how those other volunteers got to their destinations, I'm not too clear exactly how they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.146219367131184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. OK. So some of us were placed in the city. Others were outside of the city in places such as Harar, Irgalem, Debre Birhan. Some up to the north of Addis Ababa. I don't think there were too many that were placed up in Asmara at that time. But each person had their own place that they were to go. Now I was placed in the city of Addis Ababa. And there was another volunteer, her name was Mary Mannigan. She and I were roommates, we ended up as roommates, and we were one of the last to be placed. Because they wanted to get the other people in position. Now as to how those other volunteers got to their destinations, I'm not too clear exactly how they did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's alright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do your housing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4957992968124274, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do your housing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.884221440902697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't do your housing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2046904898918855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.560767210990984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.845296901101093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.161441001223437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5127122235815964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9030135817573295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.336681757508144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will come to you right after I leave."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.818535286120159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will come to you right after I leave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kept in contact for a long time, you know, he would write letters and ask how we were doing. And I would write back. And then eventually he said he got married. He married an American here. But I don't really remember if he ever, ever went back to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Was your roommate at the time, was she African American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.353928095689065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It will come to you right after I leave."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We kept in contact for a long time, you know, he would write letters and ask how we were doing. And I would write back. And then eventually he said he got married. He married an American here. But I don't really remember if he ever, ever went back to Ethiopia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Was your roommate at the time, was she African American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. You think there was an advantage? Although there have been lots of whites in and out of Addis over the years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0295408588753885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. You think there was an advantage? Although there have been lots of whites in and out of Addis over the years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know one way or the other whether it was. It just was that the two of us were business teachers. She was, um, she had been trained as a business teacher, and I too. So they needed business teachers at that particular school. And incidentally, the Tafari Makonnen school was, um, a Jesuit school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was run by the Jesuits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It should have been a good school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.366156509861543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know one way or the other whether it was. It just was that the two of us were business teachers. She was, um, she had been trained as a business teacher, and I too. So they needed business teachers at that particular school. And incidentally, the Tafari Makonnen school was, um, a Jesuit school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was run by the Jesuits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It should have been a good school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a very, very good school. The children that were there were Ethiopian children, of course, from I guess some families that could afford to send their children there. Not only did it have, um, a business department, but there was a home economics department as well as your regular English, history, math, and science. So those children were getting a pretty good, I guess American or English background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those traditional studies as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.740173899846159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was run by the Jesuits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It should have been a good school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a very, very good school. The children that were there were Ethiopian children, of course, from I guess some families that could afford to send their children there. Not only did it have, um, a business department, but there was a home economics department as well as your regular English, history, math, and science. So those children were getting a pretty good, I guess American or English background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those traditional studies as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been Peace Corps in that school before? Did you replace somebody or were you the first?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.155748777606843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was a very, very good school. The children that were there were Ethiopian children, of course, from I guess some families that could afford to send their children there. Not only did it have, um, a business department, but there was a home economics department as well as your regular English, history, math, and science. So those children were getting a pretty good, I guess American or English background."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those traditional studies as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been Peace Corps in that school before? Did you replace somebody or were you the first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We may have been the first. I don't, I don't know if there were other ones or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, I just."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.617498641785381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had there been Peace Corps in that school before? Did you replace somebody or were you the first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We may have been the first. I don't, I don't know if there were other ones or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, I just."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's fun to be the ground breaker and sometimes it's fun to follow."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.130554046428201, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We may have been the first. I don't, I don't know if there were other ones or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter, I just."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's fun to be the ground breaker and sometimes it's fun to follow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were. I don't remember. But then. But then maybe there were because there were some white volunteers in that school that I'm remembering. Maybe one or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they could have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.700615607142446, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes it's fun to be the ground breaker and sometimes it's fun to follow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were. I don't remember. But then. But then maybe there were because there were some white volunteers in that school that I'm remembering. Maybe one or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they could have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have to, I've got to go look at my pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been English or Canadian volunteers too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.222906230158273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe there were. I don't remember. But then. But then maybe there were because there were some white volunteers in that school that I'm remembering. Maybe one or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, they could have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have to, I've got to go look at my pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been English or Canadian volunteers too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did meet English volunteers. One young lady who came, I think, the second year that we were there. She even stayed with us for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a coed school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.803229144620303, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I have to, I've got to go look at my pictures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There may have been English or Canadian volunteers too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did meet English volunteers. One young lady who came, I think, the second year that we were there. She even stayed with us for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a coed school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were other women on the staff at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.448032382911448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we did meet English volunteers. One young lady who came, I think, the second year that we were there. She even stayed with us for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is a coed school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were other women on the staff at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were no women staff. Oh, no, no, no. They were all men staff. We were, um, we were the women. The others were men. But the children, there were girls and boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it high school standard or junior high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.942258203234942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were other women on the staff at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were no women staff. Oh, no, no, no. They were all men staff. We were, um, we were the women. The others were men. But the children, there were girls and boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it high school standard or junior high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were ninth through 12th graders. Now, the difficulties in teaching there was that the children were not English speaking. So they're, I guess at their elementary level, they learned some basic English, enough so that whatever we were teaching them, they did understand to some extent, but we were told certain words to use, certain ways to present the material. And since this was a vocational, quote, type of a situation, the teaching didn't really involve that much talking, because if you're teaching them how to type then, you know, you can say certain words enough of the language to talk, to show them what to do, how to sit, and then you do the alphabet with them and then teach them, you know, the skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were actually just copying stuff, it didn't matter if they could read it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3802868924832685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there were no women staff. Oh, no, no, no. They were all men staff. We were, um, we were the women. The others were men. But the children, there were girls and boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it high school standard or junior high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were ninth through 12th graders. Now, the difficulties in teaching there was that the children were not English speaking. So they're, I guess at their elementary level, they learned some basic English, enough so that whatever we were teaching them, they did understand to some extent, but we were told certain words to use, certain ways to present the material. And since this was a vocational, quote, type of a situation, the teaching didn't really involve that much talking, because if you're teaching them how to type then, you know, you can say certain words enough of the language to talk, to show them what to do, how to sit, and then you do the alphabet with them and then teach them, you know, the skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were actually just copying stuff, it didn't matter if they could read it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, right. And then as they became more proficient in this, because I think they had about four years where they had the typing. And I'm thinking we taught that shorthand, but I don't really think they did that much with it. It was mainly the typing, the accounting, filing. I remember we did a lot with the filing. And maybe some introduction to business. Those basic courses is what we taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filing in the English alphabet?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.86698543609252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were ninth through 12th graders. Now, the difficulties in teaching there was that the children were not English speaking. So they're, I guess at their elementary level, they learned some basic English, enough so that whatever we were teaching them, they did understand to some extent, but we were told certain words to use, certain ways to present the material. And since this was a vocational, quote, type of a situation, the teaching didn't really involve that much talking, because if you're teaching them how to type then, you know, you can say certain words enough of the language to talk, to show them what to do, how to sit, and then you do the alphabet with them and then teach them, you know, the skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were actually just copying stuff, it didn't matter if they could read it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, right. And then as they became more proficient in this, because I think they had about four years where they had the typing. And I'm thinking we taught that shorthand, but I don't really think they did that much with it. It was mainly the typing, the accounting, filing. I remember we did a lot with the filing. And maybe some introduction to business. Those basic courses is what we taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filing in the English alphabet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Filing with the English alphabet. But anyway, we were able to manage with, you know, manage the instruction, no part of that. And, of course, learning enough of the language so that we could proceed with what we had to, what we had to do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anybody teaching English as a second language in that school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.407761595658355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly, right. And then as they became more proficient in this, because I think they had about four years where they had the typing. And I'm thinking we taught that shorthand, but I don't really think they did that much with it. It was mainly the typing, the accounting, filing. I remember we did a lot with the filing. And maybe some introduction to business. Those basic courses is what we taught."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Filing in the English alphabet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Filing with the English alphabet. But anyway, we were able to manage with, you know, manage the instruction, no part of that. And, of course, learning enough of the language so that we could proceed with what we had to, what we had to do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anybody teaching English as a second language in that school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And, of course, the Jesuits had extensive training in both languages so that they were there to, I guess, give us as much help as necessary with that part of our work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that arrangement an easy one, working with Jesuit administrators and other Jesuits?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.008623995175951, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Filing with the English alphabet. But anyway, we were able to manage with, you know, manage the instruction, no part of that. And, of course, learning enough of the language so that we could proceed with what we had to, what we had to do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was anybody teaching English as a second language in that school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And, of course, the Jesuits had extensive training in both languages so that they were there to, I guess, give us as much help as necessary with that part of our work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that arrangement an easy one, working with Jesuit administrators and other Jesuits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I didn't have a problem with that. It was not difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had ample resources? And obviously you had typewriters."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.565137772417723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. And, of course, the Jesuits had extensive training in both languages so that they were there to, I guess, give us as much help as necessary with that part of our work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find that arrangement an easy one, working with Jesuit administrators and other Jesuits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I didn't have a problem with that. It was not difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had ample resources? And obviously you had typewriters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had typewriters at that time. There were books. It was, you know, whatever else they need, the paper and so forth. Not like here in the United States, of course, but you know, they had sufficient, they had sufficient supplies. Now where they got these things from, I haven't a clue, you know? But because they were French Canadian Jesuits, I'm quite sure that they were able, they had connections and they could get things, you know. And they lived on the compound, the campus. So it was a nice campus, you know, they had home economics department building here, the business building here, the Jesuits had their house here, you know. And if you wanted a picnic, well, there was enough grounds around that sometimes they would have picnics right there on the grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously related to their religious services, did one have to be Catholic to go to the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.183486413797469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. I didn't have a problem with that. It was not difficult for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had ample resources? And obviously you had typewriters."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had typewriters at that time. There were books. It was, you know, whatever else they need, the paper and so forth. Not like here in the United States, of course, but you know, they had sufficient, they had sufficient supplies. Now where they got these things from, I haven't a clue, you know? But because they were French Canadian Jesuits, I'm quite sure that they were able, they had connections and they could get things, you know. And they lived on the compound, the campus. So it was a nice campus, you know, they had home economics department building here, the business building here, the Jesuits had their house here, you know. And if you wanted a picnic, well, there was enough grounds around that sometimes they would have picnics right there on the grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously related to their religious services, did one have to be Catholic to go to the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. They never forced us to attend any religious services, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nor the students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.759429348663855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we had typewriters at that time. There were books. It was, you know, whatever else they need, the paper and so forth. Not like here in the United States, of course, but you know, they had sufficient, they had sufficient supplies. Now where they got these things from, I haven't a clue, you know? But because they were French Canadian Jesuits, I'm quite sure that they were able, they had connections and they could get things, you know. And they lived on the compound, the campus. So it was a nice campus, you know, they had home economics department building here, the business building here, the Jesuits had their house here, you know. And if you wanted a picnic, well, there was enough grounds around that sometimes they would have picnics right there on the grounds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Obviously related to their religious services, did one have to be Catholic to go to the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. They never forced us to attend any religious services, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nor the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think they forced them either. That wasn't part of it. Now as to whether those students stayed on the campus there, I think some of them did. But most of them would go home in the evenings to their family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause you're in the city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.399365942959839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, no. They never forced us to attend any religious services, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nor the students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think they forced them either. That wasn't part of it. Now as to whether those students stayed on the campus there, I think some of them did. But most of them would go home in the evenings to their family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause you're in the city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. To their families, whether the actual parents were within the city, or they had some relatives that they would live with. So they came to school each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you said you would walk, you walked."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.11040660328871, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think they forced them either. That wasn't part of it. Now as to whether those students stayed on the campus there, I think some of them did. But most of them would go home in the evenings to their family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause you're in the city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. To their families, whether the actual parents were within the city, or they had some relatives that they would live with. So they came to school each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you said you would walk, you walked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we would walk. We would walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the time of your day, your schedule?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.678229559209678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. To their families, whether the actual parents were within the city, or they had some relatives that they would live with. So they came to school each day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. So you said you would walk, you walked."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we would walk. We would walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the time of your day, your schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started approximately around 7:30, 8:00 and we stayed there to maybe 2:30, 3:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days a week? Six and a half?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.198032843566309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we would walk. We would walk to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the time of your day, your schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started approximately around 7:30, 8:00 and we stayed there to maybe 2:30, 3:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days a week? Six and a half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days. Wow. Did you have any non-teaching responsibilities? Did you volunteer to do anything or? OK, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.77559204840701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it started approximately around 7:30, 8:00 and we stayed there to maybe 2:30, 3:00."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days a week? Six and a half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Five days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Five days. Wow. Did you have any non-teaching responsibilities? Did you volunteer to do anything or? OK, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any volunteering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a while ago, my dear, you're entitled to forget."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.922622837321001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do remember, though, um. Since they had these different departments, we were asked to teach, let's say, the girls who were in the home economics, asked to teach them how to do the filing and how to do the typing. If they felt that those would be good qualities for the girls to have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't remember the names of any of the girls at this point, but I remember there were several of them that graduated and they got jobs using those skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps in some governmental office or what have you. Most of those girls did marry very early. We got an education just from talking to the girls. Their English was pretty good, you know, they would. In fact, we had, um, we invited a group of the girls over to our house and had a little party for them there. They would tell us some cultural things there that they thought we needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of them invite you to their homes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.80291426369, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't remember the names of any of the girls at this point, but I remember there were several of them that graduated and they got jobs using those skills."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps in some governmental office or what have you. Most of those girls did marry very early. We got an education just from talking to the girls. Their English was pretty good, you know, they would. In fact, we had, um, we invited a group of the girls over to our house and had a little party for them there. They would tell us some cultural things there that they thought we needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of them invite you to their homes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Actually, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your neighbors, did they invite you into their homes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.781015848544445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Perhaps in some governmental office or what have you. Most of those girls did marry very early. We got an education just from talking to the girls. Their English was pretty good, you know, they would. In fact, we had, um, we invited a group of the girls over to our house and had a little party for them there. They would tell us some cultural things there that they thought we needed to know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of them invite you to their homes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Actually, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your neighbors, did they invite you into their homes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the Ethiopians. There was, uh, there was white immigrant that moved next to us in their compound. We were invited over there several times, but I think they were only there for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel the Ethiopians were a little bit aloof, that they were just not? Or maybe these were sophisticated Ethiopians who didn't?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.867795387271606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Actually, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your neighbors, did they invite you into their homes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the Ethiopians. There was, uh, there was white immigrant that moved next to us in their compound. We were invited over there several times, but I think they were only there for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you feel the Ethiopians were a little bit aloof, that they were just not? Or maybe these were sophisticated Ethiopians who didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, the sophisticated Ethiopians, the ones we met through, who of these guys were that were in training, because they would always find out where we were and come by, you know. Because there, even though it was a large city, all they need to do is ask, oh, there's some volunteers, do you know so-and-so? And people would say, oh yeah, they're living over such-and-such, you know? So we kept in contact with the ones that returned to Ethiopia, and they were the ones that would come by and invite us to their homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's neat."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.305920231199513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK, the sophisticated Ethiopians, the ones we met through, who of these guys were that were in training, because they would always find out where we were and come by, you know. Because there, even though it was a large city, all they need to do is ask, oh, there's some volunteers, do you know so-and-so? And people would say, oh yeah, they're living over such-and-such, you know? So we kept in contact with the ones that returned to Ethiopia, and they were the ones that would come by and invite us to their homes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And also take us to the different Ethiopian restaurants that were there and introduce us to the food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if the holidays would come, they would come by and pick us up and say, oh, well, you know, we're having a particular holiday and they're going to do this, you know, I'll come and pick you up. They had cars and they would take us to where all of the activities were in front of the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was so worried that you were just sitting in your house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.8805490139911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. That house thing, we were not sitting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Believe me, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had a lot of activities. Now, also just before my roommate and I left the hotel. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3522142864249993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wines. Toilet paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those kind of things. OK. Um, in the Italian stores. And so there was a lot of mixture of cultures, the Italian culture, the Ethiopian cultures, and we found we made friends with people from other countries. Indians from India. Armenians. Uh, those people from Beirut. There was the Israelis. So we had all kinds of friends at that time, you know, and they would invite us to their homes. This, what is it, this baklava? That's, I was introduced to baklava there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Baklava, the sweet stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was introduced to that over there. Those people would invite us over. Mary and Cindy. They called me Cindy there. Come over. We're having this. And so we would, you know, get ourselves together, find out how to get there, get in a cab, and we would go. And it was lovely. We had a very, very good time while we were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel secure? You were in a big city. Was that a nice, safe place to be at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7246825404722212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those kind of things. OK. Um, in the Italian stores. And so there was a lot of mixture of cultures, the Italian culture, the Ethiopian cultures, and we found we made friends with people from other countries. Indians from India. Armenians. Uh, those people from Beirut. There was the Israelis. So we had all kinds of friends at that time, you know, and they would invite us to their homes. This, what is it, this baklava? That's, I was introduced to baklava there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Baklava, the sweet stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was introduced to that over there. Those people would invite us over. Mary and Cindy. They called me Cindy there. Come over. We're having this. And so we would, you know, get ourselves together, find out how to get there, get in a cab, and we would go. And it was lovely. We had a very, very good time while we were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel secure? You were in a big city. Was that a nice, safe place to be at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, yes, it was. Yeah. And we had the guard who took care of the home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.138536156080246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I was introduced to that over there. Those people would invite us over. Mary and Cindy. They called me Cindy there. Come over. We're having this. And so we would, you know, get ourselves together, find out how to get there, get in a cab, and we would go. And it was lovely. We had a very, very good time while we were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel secure? You were in a big city. Was that a nice, safe place to be at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time, yes, it was. Yeah. And we had the guard who took care of the home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it you were out in the taxi, you didn't feel uncomfortable? Could you walk around?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.109303896395366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it you were out in the taxi, you didn't feel uncomfortable? Could you walk around?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we walked around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but not so much at night alone though. Women. You know, we'd tend to do things together, but we never felt as if we were insecure or afraid to go wherever we wanted to go. There was not that going on at that time, you know, you would hear people talking about the possibility of overthrowing Haile Selassie. But it wasn't a major concern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you visit any of your former training friends out at their sites?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6770043293281836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, we walked around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At night?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but not so much at night alone though. Women. You know, we'd tend to do things together, but we never felt as if we were insecure or afraid to go wherever we wanted to go. There was not that going on at that time, you know, you would hear people talking about the possibility of overthrowing Haile Selassie. But it wasn't a major concern."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you visit any of your former training friends out at their sites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was that experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.181075897569524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That experience was an experience. I remember we took. We took a bus because we, Mary and I, were trying to decide how we were going to get to, uh, where was this place? Dire Dawa. So I think we took the bus, I know we took a train at some point. But we took a bus and that was the first time going outside of the city. And so you see a completely different type of environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there we were on this bus. And I didn't know that Mary had a problem with heights, but Ethiopia is 8,000 miles [feet] or more above sea level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Feet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here we are on this bus and we're going down. And when you get outside, you see the mountains and you see the hills and the valleys, and it was just beautiful. And then way in the distance, you would see what they called tukuls, which is their huts, a group of them, or maybe just one with children around. But when we were up on the roads were like this and right here is a drop off. She had a fit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she on the outside?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.396389996999413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here we are on this bus and we're going down. And when you get outside, you see the mountains and you see the hills and the valleys, and it was just beautiful. And then way in the distance, you would see what they called tukuls, which is their huts, a group of them, or maybe just one with children around. But when we were up on the roads were like this and right here is a drop off. She had a fit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she on the outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it didn't matter where she was on the outside or the inside. She could not look down. Well, I enjoyed it because that was my first time of being in a situation where you could look for miles. And if the clouds were up, it would have a shadow over there, but not where you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I would just look at this and I said, oh god, look at the scenery and the trees, and you know. That was that again was awakening, a sensual awakening for me, to be able to see the environment, you know, and notice the differences in the land and those kinds of things. But we took this bus and we were going up and around and around and getting up, and then, of course, the bus, you know, there with the, um, what do you call it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have to shift gears?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.995988885554903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it didn't matter where she was on the outside or the inside. She could not look down. Well, I enjoyed it because that was my first time of being in a situation where you could look for miles. And if the clouds were up, it would have a shadow over there, but not where you were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beautiful, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I would just look at this and I said, oh god, look at the scenery and the trees, and you know. That was that again was awakening, a sensual awakening for me, to be able to see the environment, you know, and notice the differences in the land and those kinds of things. But we took this bus and we were going up and around and around and getting up, and then, of course, the bus, you know, there with the, um, what do you call it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have to shift gears?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah. And every time the bus would stop and shift the gear, rrrrr, you know, we wondered, is it going to make it to the top or what? So then get to the top and then you got to shift gears again and go around this hill and then you start going down and then you start going up again. So anyway, we did that. And then finally, we got to the place to visit our friends. And we stayed there, I guess, just for the weekend to visit them. And it was nice. They didn't have the comforts that we had, but it wasn't really that bad. Um. It wasn't that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that bad."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.662209872838781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I would just look at this and I said, oh god, look at the scenery and the trees, and you know. That was that again was awakening, a sensual awakening for me, to be able to see the environment, you know, and notice the differences in the land and those kinds of things. But we took this bus and we were going up and around and around and getting up, and then, of course, the bus, you know, there with the, um, what do you call it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have to shift gears?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah. And every time the bus would stop and shift the gear, rrrrr, you know, we wondered, is it going to make it to the top or what? So then get to the top and then you got to shift gears again and go around this hill and then you start going down and then you start going up again. So anyway, we did that. And then finally, we got to the place to visit our friends. And we stayed there, I guess, just for the weekend to visit them. And it was nice. They didn't have the comforts that we had, but it wasn't really that bad. Um. It wasn't that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't really that bad. I found it, you know, their home was comfortable and I just enjoyed being with them. Yeah. But now the thing is, because Mary and I were in the city, whenever there was a vacation it meant that whoever was coming in. You know, if the Peace Corps said, OK, you're on vacation and all of the volunteers have to meet in the city, invariably our house was full."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no Peace Corps rest house there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.402455414265312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah. And every time the bus would stop and shift the gear, rrrrr, you know, we wondered, is it going to make it to the top or what? So then get to the top and then you got to shift gears again and go around this hill and then you start going down and then you start going up again. So anyway, we did that. And then finally, we got to the place to visit our friends. And we stayed there, I guess, just for the weekend to visit them. And it was nice. They didn't have the comforts that we had, but it wasn't really that bad. Um. It wasn't that bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not that bad."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't really that bad. I found it, you know, their home was comfortable and I just enjoyed being with them. Yeah. But now the thing is, because Mary and I were in the city, whenever there was a vacation it meant that whoever was coming in. You know, if the Peace Corps said, OK, you're on vacation and all of the volunteers have to meet in the city, invariably our house was full."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no Peace Corps rest house there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They either had to stay at the hotels or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.22495046029479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't really that bad. I found it, you know, their home was comfortable and I just enjoyed being with them. Yeah. But now the thing is, because Mary and I were in the city, whenever there was a vacation it meant that whoever was coming in. You know, if the Peace Corps said, OK, you're on vacation and all of the volunteers have to meet in the city, invariably our house was full."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was no Peace Corps rest house there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They either had to stay at the hotels or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We and whoever else. They were other volunteers that were in the city also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the other volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.13883384477199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They either had to stay at the hotels or."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We and whoever else. They were other volunteers that were in the city also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did communicate? You'd say, hey, I've got 15 people at my house. Who can you take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.154259827524433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We and whoever else. They were other volunteers that were in the city also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have much contact with the other volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we did. Yes, we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did communicate? You'd say, hey, I've got 15 people at my house. Who can you take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know. And of course, some of them, you know, we had a phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! Oh my goodness, let me write that down."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.536123243857322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, you know. And of course, some of them, you know, we had a phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh! Oh my goodness, let me write that down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, when they would get to, they would take their busses to the city. They get to the city. They would call. You know, Mary, Cindy, you got room for me? Come on over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, on the couch, on the floor, whatever. And then at that time, we would have our little parties and get togethers and what have you. So we'd catch up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.929025826508136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, you know, when they would get to, they would take their busses to the city. They get to the city. They would call. You know, Mary, Cindy, you got room for me? Come on over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, on the couch, on the floor, whatever. And then at that time, we would have our little parties and get togethers and what have you. So we'd catch up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So some of them stayed at our house and some of them stayed at, you know, other volunteers. [tape break] Now, this is my roommate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. OK. Are you still in touch with her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.365584251675706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, on the couch, on the floor, whatever. And then at that time, we would have our little parties and get togethers and what have you. So we'd catch up here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So some of them stayed at our house and some of them stayed at, you know, other volunteers. [tape break] Now, this is my roommate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. OK. Are you still in touch with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am. She lives in Cleveland, Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's start with that. So you are in touch with your old roommate, Mary?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.389610187253957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am. She lives in Cleveland, Ohio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let's start with that. So you are in touch with your old roommate, Mary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah. We lost contact for a while. She stayed an extra year. She wanted to do three years in the Peace Corps and, um, I came home. And then. Well, I don't if I should even put this on the tape."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, don't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, I came home and, you know, I started working and what have you and few other adventure things there. And so I lost her address and her phone number. And then in the meantime, then she comes home. She goes to Cleveland and she starts doing a lot of traveling around, and she came to Buffalo, but she had my parents' home phone number. And I used to talk about Mary and my other friends there. And so anyway, Mary called and see, by that time, I had moved here, OK? So Mary called my mom and she was saying, well, I'm Mary, and I'm looking for Cynthia. So then we got in contact again after about five or six years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, let me let me go back to Ethiopia before you're ready to leave. The longer you were at the school there, any change in your attitude about it? Did it get a lot easier? Were you bored, were you still interested?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.15862002979438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So for one of those Christmases, we were able to go to Jerusalem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm trying to think, how did that happen? I think it was with the Jesuits. They had a tour of Jerusalem, and so we got to see Bethlehem and all of those tourist spots around there. They were having some political problems because I remember we were on the tour bus and the driver had a guard and they kept the gun with them at that time. And we were only allowed to stop at certain points. They would take us to where they wanted us to go. And then, you know, we would get out of the bus and go into various cathedrals and churches and then get back on the bus. I found that very interesting because there were so many places where they would say, oh, this is where Jesus was born or this is where Jesus died. And I'm thinking, well, how could that be so many? He's only one person. There were just hundreds of them. This is where, this is where. All right.\n\nBut we got to see a lot of those churches and those cathedrals. And the Dome of the Rock, every single time I see it on TV, I think, oh, I was there. Took my shoes off and we walked inside there. Chills up your spine, you know? And all the time I was there, I was thinking this was a Christian, um, church, and now I realize it isn't. It was Muslim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a mosque."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we got a chance to see the Jordan River and, you know, just a lot of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't restricted, you didn't feel confined there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5095778108826443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm trying to think, how did that happen? I think it was with the Jesuits. They had a tour of Jerusalem, and so we got to see Bethlehem and all of those tourist spots around there. They were having some political problems because I remember we were on the tour bus and the driver had a guard and they kept the gun with them at that time. And we were only allowed to stop at certain points. They would take us to where they wanted us to go. And then, you know, we would get out of the bus and go into various cathedrals and churches and then get back on the bus. I found that very interesting because there were so many places where they would say, oh, this is where Jesus was born or this is where Jesus died. And I'm thinking, well, how could that be so many? He's only one person. There were just hundreds of them. This is where, this is where. All right.\n\nBut we got to see a lot of those churches and those cathedrals. And the Dome of the Rock, every single time I see it on TV, I think, oh, I was there. Took my shoes off and we walked inside there. Chills up your spine, you know? And all the time I was there, I was thinking this was a Christian, um, church, and now I realize it isn't. It was Muslim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a mosque."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we got a chance to see the Jordan River and, you know, just a lot of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't restricted, you didn't feel confined there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so one question that I neglected to ask you early on. When you first came to Ethiopia, did you feel this notorious culture shock? Did you feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8995309009807158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But we got a chance to see the Jordan River and, you know, just a lot of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't restricted, you didn't feel confined there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so one question that I neglected to ask you early on. When you first came to Ethiopia, did you feel this notorious culture shock? Did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your response to it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.332812112200795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so one question that I neglected to ask you early on. When you first came to Ethiopia, did you feel this notorious culture shock? Did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your response to it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My response was I'm ready to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really? Were you close?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.814235680223105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your response to it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My response was I'm ready to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really? Were you close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially, my response was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close to going home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.238039644692339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My response was I'm ready to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really? Were you close?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially, my response was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close to going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm ready to go home. But then here I made the commitment. It took me about six months to really get used to things and to feel comfortable with the life there, because there were so many things that you couldn't do. You know, like I mentioned about the toilet paper and eating the ice cream and boiling the water and, uh, you know. But then as you became more comfortable with your surroundings, you realized that we were in a better situation than those who were out in the boondocks. Because we did have, you know, a toilet inside, and even though the water was from up there and coming down and whatever. And even outside of the house, there was a huge water reservoir there just for our house. But my initial thing was, I didn't, I didn't want to stay there. It was a culture shock. And it's funny because when you're there, you don't want to be there. And then when you get used to being there and enjoying it, and then when you come home, you want to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it took you think about six months before you felt comfortable and adjusted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.7089329385470435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Initially, my response was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Close to going home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm ready to go home. But then here I made the commitment. It took me about six months to really get used to things and to feel comfortable with the life there, because there were so many things that you couldn't do. You know, like I mentioned about the toilet paper and eating the ice cream and boiling the water and, uh, you know. But then as you became more comfortable with your surroundings, you realized that we were in a better situation than those who were out in the boondocks. Because we did have, you know, a toilet inside, and even though the water was from up there and coming down and whatever. And even outside of the house, there was a huge water reservoir there just for our house. But my initial thing was, I didn't, I didn't want to stay there. It was a culture shock. And it's funny because when you're there, you don't want to be there. And then when you get used to being there and enjoying it, and then when you come home, you want to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it took you think about six months before you felt comfortable and adjusted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It took me about six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then so that means you had like another year and a half of service. When did you start thinking about the future? The month before you left? Two months, six months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.121036598385603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm ready to go home. But then here I made the commitment. It took me about six months to really get used to things and to feel comfortable with the life there, because there were so many things that you couldn't do. You know, like I mentioned about the toilet paper and eating the ice cream and boiling the water and, uh, you know. But then as you became more comfortable with your surroundings, you realized that we were in a better situation than those who were out in the boondocks. Because we did have, you know, a toilet inside, and even though the water was from up there and coming down and whatever. And even outside of the house, there was a huge water reservoir there just for our house. But my initial thing was, I didn't, I didn't want to stay there. It was a culture shock. And it's funny because when you're there, you don't want to be there. And then when you get used to being there and enjoying it, and then when you come home, you want to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So it took you think about six months before you felt comfortable and adjusted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It took me about six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then so that means you had like another year and a half of service. When did you start thinking about the future? The month before you left? Two months, six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It may have been about three or four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three or four months. What were you thinking about doing in the future? You decided not to extend."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.578929553761782, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It took me about six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then so that means you had like another year and a half of service. When did you start thinking about the future? The month before you left? Two months, six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It may have been about three or four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three or four months. What were you thinking about doing in the future? You decided not to extend."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't want to extend. I was really ready to go home. I wanted to see my family. And then I was thinking in terms of working here in the city of Buffalo and, you know, just getting on with my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the close of service debriefing, I think they would call it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.5418883379775075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't want to extend. I was really ready to go home. I wanted to see my family. And then I was thinking in terms of working here in the city of Buffalo and, you know, just getting on with my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the close of service debriefing, I think they would call it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not too clearly. I do remember they gave us a certificate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't. The Americans that gave us the certificate, I think the Ethiopians, because, you know, this was a joint effort. Those gentlemen, we had a meeting or we were all together, all of us volunteers. They called our names and then we went up and they presented us with the certificate of completion. Probably some of Halie Selassie's dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.046542597752786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Not too clearly. I do remember they gave us a certificate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't. The Americans that gave us the certificate, I think the Ethiopians, because, you know, this was a joint effort. Those gentlemen, we had a meeting or we were all together, all of us volunteers. They called our names and then we went up and they presented us with the certificate of completion. Probably some of Halie Selassie's dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have an official certificate that you'd actually served and what you had done?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.607269553058651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't. The Americans that gave us the certificate, I think the Ethiopians, because, you know, this was a joint effort. Those gentlemen, we had a meeting or we were all together, all of us volunteers. They called our names and then we went up and they presented us with the certificate of completion. Probably some of Halie Selassie's dignitaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have an official certificate that you'd actually served and what you had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we did get a debriefing, but there again, I don't really remember what they said or what they would talk to us about, or anything of that nature. But I know, I know we did have some meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know at this at the final meeting, were all of the volunteers from your training group there or just some? Like was it done geographically, just those around Addis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.230299503398501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you have an official certificate that you'd actually served and what you had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we did get a debriefing, but there again, I don't really remember what they said or what they would talk to us about, or anything of that nature. But I know, I know we did have some meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know at this at the final meeting, were all of the volunteers from your training group there or just some? Like was it done geographically, just those around Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never saw some of the trainees ever again after you left them at the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.922555003776112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And we did get a debriefing, but there again, I don't really remember what they said or what they would talk to us about, or anything of that nature. But I know, I know we did have some meetings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know at this at the final meeting, were all of the volunteers from your training group there or just some? Like was it done geographically, just those around Addis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never saw some of the trainees ever again after you left them at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was common then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.691727781973458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you never saw some of the trainees ever again after you left them at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was common then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, unless they came into the city and we were, you know, friends and they called and said, we can come by your house. Some of them, I never saw them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no reunions. Your group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.026824422189454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, unless they came into the city and we were, you know, friends and they called and said, we can come by your house. Some of them, I never saw them again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had no reunions. Your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our group per se. Maybe they did. But it may have been a situation where I just didn't go. The one big reunion, the 25th anniversary reunion in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got together with Mary and two of us flew down, and then we got an opportunity to see all the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was there, I didn't meet you there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3417585459129056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got together with Mary and two of us flew down, and then we got an opportunity to see all the volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was there, I didn't meet you there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you didn't know me. But I got a chance to see a lot of the volunteers from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I haven't been to any of the reunions since then, and maybe I should qualify that. Buffalo, when I came home, they had a returned volunteer group, and I participated in that for a while. But it seemed like after a couple of years, you know, there was no literature being dispersed. And then we were going on with our lives and then after a while, things kind of, you know, disintegrated. And then I would get maybe every once in a while some literature from the National Peace Corps organization, and they wanted to know what group or affiliation I was with. And since there was nothing in the city of Buffalo, then sometimes I would check off Rochester or I would check off the one in Ohio. So there were a couple of times that I would go to visit my girlfriend, Mary, and her group was so active. They're still active. So I would go to their meetings. And I just kind of put my name on their list to see the different things that they were doing, and they have a large active group of returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a Friends of Ethiopia group? A country group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.935287273236561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you didn't know me. But I got a chance to see a lot of the volunteers from our group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I haven't been to any of the reunions since then, and maybe I should qualify that. Buffalo, when I came home, they had a returned volunteer group, and I participated in that for a while. But it seemed like after a couple of years, you know, there was no literature being dispersed. And then we were going on with our lives and then after a while, things kind of, you know, disintegrated. And then I would get maybe every once in a while some literature from the National Peace Corps organization, and they wanted to know what group or affiliation I was with. And since there was nothing in the city of Buffalo, then sometimes I would check off Rochester or I would check off the one in Ohio. So there were a couple of times that I would go to visit my girlfriend, Mary, and her group was so active. They're still active. So I would go to their meetings. And I just kind of put my name on their list to see the different things that they were doing, and they have a large active group of returned volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a Friends of Ethiopia group? A country group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there may have been. You mean here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it would be a nationwide group in that case. You have either the geographical group like western New York or Buffalo. And also there's like the \"friends of,\" like I'm in the Friends of Nigeria, and that covers the whole country. They may have gone by the wayside and they're not contacting you so obviously, you don't know. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.981836139798224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, there may have been. You mean here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it would be a nationwide group in that case. You have either the geographical group like western New York or Buffalo. And also there's like the \"friends of,\" like I'm in the Friends of Nigeria, and that covers the whole country. They may have gone by the wayside and they're not contacting you so obviously, you don't know. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now also, while we were there in Ethiopia, not only did we get to travel to these places, but one summer, they said those of us who were in the city, you should have a complete experience. So I was placed in one of those outer lying areas. And um, there, it was just for a month. Whoever the volunteer. We exchanged. And here I was alone, actually. She lived there by herself too. In her house, I had to chop the wood, make my own firewood, which I didn't know how to do. So her lady who did the cooking, she came and showed me how to chop the wood and make a fire to cook food. But my main purpose of being there was, um, there was a hospital located nearby and they needed someone to work in the hospital in the records department. So since I had the business background, my project at that time was to go to their office and help them to organize their records. So I did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This will be on your school break project kind of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So I did that for one month. Now, um, of course, the records are in English as well as Amharic, the writing. But I worked with, um, some young people there, and I showed them what to do and how to alphabetize. So I had a group of young people around me to explain what to do. So we got it in, I think at that time, some semblance of order so they could find."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very useful project."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4120008426113593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he did. And then certain things, they would not eat pork, for example. The food there, after you get used to their traditional food, which is the injera and the wat, I quite, I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the wat is a very spicy stew. You have doro wat, which is chicken. And they have a special way that they cut it up, by the way. They don't cut it up the way we do here in the United States, but they have certain ways that they cut the meat up. And actually, in preparation, what they do is they take the onions and they would fry the onions, and then they would put some of the butter in it, then the bere, which is the pepper, the red pepper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then constantly, you know, kind of make a stew with that and add water. And they would boil eggs and put a whole egg in there. They would have several whole eggs in there. And then they keep, you know, boiling that and stirring it and what have you. And then when that's almost done, then they will put the pieces of chicken in. Now that's doro wat. They also have, um, the wat which can be the beef and also the wat which has, um, lamb in it as well. So there's about three or four different kinds. And that's the stew. Now the bread is similar to a pancake, that we know as pancakes, but if you look at it, it's a pancake that's only been cooked on one side, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6800009362348436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, the wat is a very spicy stew. You have doro wat, which is chicken. And they have a special way that they cut it up, by the way. They don't cut it up the way we do here in the United States, but they have certain ways that they cut the meat up. And actually, in preparation, what they do is they take the onions and they would fry the onions, and then they would put some of the butter in it, then the bere, which is the pepper, the red pepper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then constantly, you know, kind of make a stew with that and add water. And they would boil eggs and put a whole egg in there. They would have several whole eggs in there. And then they keep, you know, boiling that and stirring it and what have you. And then when that's almost done, then they will put the pieces of chicken in. Now that's doro wat. They also have, um, the wat which can be the beef and also the wat which has, um, lamb in it as well. So there's about three or four different kinds. And that's the stew. Now the bread is similar to a pancake, that we know as pancakes, but if you look at it, it's a pancake that's only been cooked on one side, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can see the bubbles. And they have a huge, uh, tin pan that's about this big around, and so they would pour that, uh, mixture or whatever around, and then it would cook on the bottom and the top would still have the holes in it, you know, the pancake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they cut it up right there on the pan?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3086431311541276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can see the bubbles. And they have a huge, uh, tin pan that's about this big around, and so they would pour that, uh, mixture or whatever around, and then it would cook on the bottom and the top would still have the holes in it, you know, the pancake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they cut it up right there on the pan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. They don't cut it up, they slide it over into the basket. In fact, I have one of the actual baskets behind my chair there. You see, behind you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This chair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The actual basket is something I brought back. [inaudible] So and the injera. So they would make one injera and they would slide that off, make another injera. So there would be maybe sometimes five or six layers of the injera. And then when the mealtime came, family, friends, they would all sit around the basket. I've forgotten what the name of it is. And the injera is there. You're in your place. Then they would pour the different stews around. OK? So when it came time to eat, you'd tear off your portion of injera, dip it into whatever stew you want, and then you would eat. That's how they would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it came around again and you could get a different kind of stew?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6762701457268085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. They don't cut it up, they slide it over into the basket. In fact, I have one of the actual baskets behind my chair there. You see, behind you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This chair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The actual basket is something I brought back. [inaudible] So and the injera. So they would make one injera and they would slide that off, make another injera. So there would be maybe sometimes five or six layers of the injera. And then when the mealtime came, family, friends, they would all sit around the basket. I've forgotten what the name of it is. And the injera is there. You're in your place. Then they would pour the different stews around. OK? So when it came time to eat, you'd tear off your portion of injera, dip it into whatever stew you want, and then you would eat. That's how they would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it came around again and you could get a different kind of stew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, you're sitting down. And if you want, you know, you could just reach around or whatever. Ok, so you will just dip it out like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now is this, when they're feeding people that much food, what are you talking about, 15, 20 people, more?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.08474460636312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. The actual basket is something I brought back. [inaudible] So and the injera. So they would make one injera and they would slide that off, make another injera. So there would be maybe sometimes five or six layers of the injera. And then when the mealtime came, family, friends, they would all sit around the basket. I've forgotten what the name of it is. And the injera is there. You're in your place. Then they would pour the different stews around. OK? So when it came time to eat, you'd tear off your portion of injera, dip it into whatever stew you want, and then you would eat. That's how they would do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then it came around again and you could get a different kind of stew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, you're sitting down. And if you want, you know, you could just reach around or whatever. Ok, so you will just dip it out like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now is this, when they're feeding people that much food, what are you talking about, 15, 20 people, more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You never had more than about five, six."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? With all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.603216195285487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Five or six. And then, you know, it's enough so that you can have a meal the next day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you didn't put it all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good leftovers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were leftovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was fun."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.22579577253943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you didn't put it all there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good leftovers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were leftovers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, um. We didn't have the facilities to cook the food there like that, but you could go to the marketplace and buy the injera. And there were different types of injera. You can find the dark injera with the dark teff. That's what their wheat was called, teff. Up from the dark teff up to the white teff. The typical color, though, is a grayish looking color, which is similar to what you see right there. That's the typical color of it. But you can get the white, which looks just like this napkin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would you spell injera in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.540186244910055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I-N-J-E-R-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I-N."}, {"role": "user", "content": "J-E-R-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "E-R-A, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Injera. And wat, W-A-T."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so it's a kind of bread plus the stew that goes with it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.489095827677838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "J-E-R-A."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "E-R-A, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Injera. And wat, W-A-T."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so it's a kind of bread plus the stew that goes with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Now, it's very spicy. The actual food is quite spicy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You gave me a taste of the spicy stew."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.54343980853093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Injera. And wat, W-A-T."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so it's a kind of bread plus the stew that goes with it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Now, it's very spicy. The actual food is quite spicy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You gave me a taste of the spicy stew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spicy, very hot. But it's tasty. Once you get used to it, it's very tasty. It's very delicious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you cook that style here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.714933120589922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Now, it's very spicy. The actual food is quite spicy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You gave me a taste of the spicy stew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spicy, very hot. But it's tasty. Once you get used to it, it's very tasty. It's very delicious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you cook that style here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, I have never, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a decent Ethiopian restaurant in Buffalo?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.794370133988803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very spicy, very hot. But it's tasty. Once you get used to it, it's very tasty. It's very delicious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you cook that style here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, I have never, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a decent Ethiopian restaurant in Buffalo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't found one. Now I, um, one year we went to Detroit for some reason or another, a conference I think it was, and we're walking downtown, some other friends and I, and I see Ethiopian restaurant. I said, oh, I've got to go in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are going."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.993744593320892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, I have never, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a decent Ethiopian restaurant in Buffalo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't found one. Now I, um, one year we went to Detroit for some reason or another, a conference I think it was, and we're walking downtown, some other friends and I, and I see Ethiopian restaurant. I said, oh, I've got to go in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went right in there. These people knew nothing about Ethiopia. They knew. I said, we're going to try this. I've got to have some of this. And even there, it was not the same. They had watered it down, you know, because Americans don't like food that is too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was run by actual Ethiopians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.104160659245435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't found one. Now I, um, one year we went to Detroit for some reason or another, a conference I think it was, and we're walking downtown, some other friends and I, and I see Ethiopian restaurant. I said, oh, I've got to go in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went right in there. These people knew nothing about Ethiopia. They knew. I said, we're going to try this. I've got to have some of this. And even there, it was not the same. They had watered it down, you know, because Americans don't like food that is too hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it was run by actual Ethiopians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. Yeah. They are Ethiopians in the city of Buffalo, but I don't think they've gotten to the point that they have Ethiopian foods. And I had an Ethiopian student last year, and I used to come to go to class, and whenever I'd see her, I would always greet her in Amharic. And she would look at me so funny as if, you know, what's wrong with this woman, how does she know this? And finally, I told her, you know, about my background. And I asked her at the end of the year if she knew where I could get some berbere. She said, yes, I'll let you know, but, you know, kids, she never got back to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn't there something I was supposed to do here? OK, so did you have a future plan while you were still in Ethiopia? Or was it come back and get a job in Buffalo and carry on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6130851652787275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, went back to my parents' home and I taught there for a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I, um, see before I left Ethiopia, I had met a young man who had just come back from the United States. He was an Ethiopian citizen. He had just come back from the United States, studying out at the University of Arizona. And we became friends, you know, he was a nice young man. He really didn't want me to come home. He says, why don't you stay here for a third year and so forth and so on? And I said, no, I'm ready to go home now. But anyway, we continued writing. And when I came, when I got back to the United States, I'm thinking, well, this is not exciting. You know, I want to travel, I want to do this, I want to do that. And when I started looking up my old friends, you know, the few friends that I had, they were heavily involved in relationships or they were married. They already had children. And I'm thinking, well, you know, I would invite them, let's do this. Oh, well, I can't do this. I can't. And so it was like I was out of place. And I was just lost.\n\nSo anyway, that next year I went back to Ethiopia and I married the young man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah ha. So you were in touch with him when you got home, you were writing and calling and all that stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. He was the one calling and writing and sending flowers, and let's come back, you know? So I went back and we got married. So we were married for about four years. In fact, two of those years we came to the United States. And we were out in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and went to school, both of us. And then we went back to Ethiopia. And I think at that point, I don't know, things started to change. So the marriage didn't last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask, did you have children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.347872405865252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I, um, see before I left Ethiopia, I had met a young man who had just come back from the United States. He was an Ethiopian citizen. He had just come back from the United States, studying out at the University of Arizona. And we became friends, you know, he was a nice young man. He really didn't want me to come home. He says, why don't you stay here for a third year and so forth and so on? And I said, no, I'm ready to go home now. But anyway, we continued writing. And when I came, when I got back to the United States, I'm thinking, well, this is not exciting. You know, I want to travel, I want to do this, I want to do that. And when I started looking up my old friends, you know, the few friends that I had, they were heavily involved in relationships or they were married. They already had children. And I'm thinking, well, you know, I would invite them, let's do this. Oh, well, I can't do this. I can't. And so it was like I was out of place. And I was just lost.\n\nSo anyway, that next year I went back to Ethiopia and I married the young man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah ha. So you were in touch with him when you got home, you were writing and calling and all that stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. He was the one calling and writing and sending flowers, and let's come back, you know? So I went back and we got married. So we were married for about four years. In fact, two of those years we came to the United States. And we were out in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and went to school, both of us. And then we went back to Ethiopia. And I think at that point, I don't know, things started to change. So the marriage didn't last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask, did you have children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a daughter. We have a daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's nice. So then you were back single again."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.053191562072502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. He was the one calling and writing and sending flowers, and let's come back, you know? So I went back and we got married. So we were married for about four years. In fact, two of those years we came to the United States. And we were out in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and went to school, both of us. And then we went back to Ethiopia. And I think at that point, I don't know, things started to change. So the marriage didn't last."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask, did you have children?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a daughter. We have a daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's nice. So then you were back single again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. And I've been single ever since. Thirty years of singlehood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your daughter is married now and you have grandchildren?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.8368795134138916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have a daughter. We have a daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. That's nice. So then you were back single again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. And I've been single ever since. Thirty years of singlehood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your daughter is married now and you have grandchildren?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's not married. She's, um. That's interesting because, um, maybe because of the way I am and also her father. She's a very independent young lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing wrong with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.596532792682102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. And I've been single ever since. Thirty years of singlehood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your daughter is married now and you have grandchildren?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's not married. She's, um. That's interesting because, um, maybe because of the way I am and also her father. She's a very independent young lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing wrong with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has done more traveling than I would ever have imagined. You know, she doesn't wince to pick up and say, well, I want to go this place. And the next thing I know, oh, I'm getting ready, I'm packing my bags, I'm going. She's been to India. And she's been to all of the major countries in Europe and she's been to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pleasure or business?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.440591991869002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, she's not married. She's, um. That's interesting because, um, maybe because of the way I am and also her father. She's a very independent young lady."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nothing wrong with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has done more traveling than I would ever have imagined. You know, she doesn't wince to pick up and say, well, I want to go this place. And the next thing I know, oh, I'm getting ready, I'm packing my bags, I'm going. She's been to India. And she's been to all of the major countries in Europe and she's been to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pleasure or business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were business, and some of them were pleasure. And she's been to many places in the United States as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is she based here in Buffalo or is she coming?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.378435546521114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she has done more traveling than I would ever have imagined. You know, she doesn't wince to pick up and say, well, I want to go this place. And the next thing I know, oh, I'm getting ready, I'm packing my bags, I'm going. She's been to India. And she's been to all of the major countries in Europe and she's been to South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pleasure or business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them were business, and some of them were pleasure. And she's been to many places in the United States as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is she based here in Buffalo or is she coming?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York City."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.467204378421126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She's in New York City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "New York City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she has a group of friends, and they also like to do a lot of traveling. And she's talented and, um, intelligent, and as I say, very independent. She's there in New York, and she's working for a major magazine company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she does well. Even one of the companies that she used to work with, um, that was one of the reasons she did all of this traveling because they would send her to these different places. Also, when they would have their management meetings, they would send the managers to the Bahamas for, what they'd call it? A regroup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Whatever you call it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.630227087134584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she has a group of friends, and they also like to do a lot of traveling. And she's talented and, um, intelligent, and as I say, very independent. She's there in New York, and she's working for a major magazine company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she does well. Even one of the companies that she used to work with, um, that was one of the reasons she did all of this traveling because they would send her to these different places. Also, when they would have their management meetings, they would send the managers to the Bahamas for, what they'd call it? A regroup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Whatever you call it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I've been to the Bahamas three or four times now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 12.922474541260648, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she does well. Even one of the companies that she used to work with, um, that was one of the reasons she did all of this traveling because they would send her to these different places. Also, when they would have their management meetings, they would send the managers to the Bahamas for, what they'd call it? A regroup."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Whatever you call it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I've been to the Bahamas three or four times now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's her life right now. I don't have any grandchildren. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you formed her, so you live with these consequences, good or bad or whatever. And there seem to be very good consequences."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.406686613526266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to my time abroad there. Not only did I get a chance to go to the Middle East, but for our vacation, a group of us young ladies got together and we went to East Africa. So I've been to Kenya, Nairobi, Mombasa. Uganda before Idi Amin. Tanzania. I've taken a safari into the treetops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I've seen the White Nile, what is it, the blue? [tape break] And you know, we were just there together. And some things I think we did then, of course, you would not do now. For instance, hitchhike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hitchhiked through Kenya. And there were a group of Indians, an Indian family, that picked us up. We're sitting in the back of their truck. They stopped and picked us up, and there we went to wherever we wanted to go. And then when we got there, you know, they'd drop us off and we said, well, where are we going now? So, you know, we'd do that until we got to a place where if we could get a bus. We would always be, not a special bus in this case. It was a bus where there were the native people, you know, with the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7852073483625177, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, and I've seen the White Nile, what is it, the blue? [tape break] And you know, we were just there together. And some things I think we did then, of course, you would not do now. For instance, hitchhike."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hitchhiked through Kenya. And there were a group of Indians, an Indian family, that picked us up. We're sitting in the back of their truck. They stopped and picked us up, and there we went to wherever we wanted to go. And then when we got there, you know, they'd drop us off and we said, well, where are we going now? So, you know, we'd do that until we got to a place where if we could get a bus. We would always be, not a special bus in this case. It was a bus where there were the native people, you know, with the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chickens up above our head and they're standing up. And I remember we were, um, the two of us were sitting in chairs on the bus in the seats and here was a Masai man, and he's there with his big cane and, you know. Oh my god. But we had some experiences, really, really experiencing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you imparted that to your daughter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.2057859426250195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We hitchhiked through Kenya. And there were a group of Indians, an Indian family, that picked us up. We're sitting in the back of their truck. They stopped and picked us up, and there we went to wherever we wanted to go. And then when we got there, you know, they'd drop us off and we said, well, where are we going now? So, you know, we'd do that until we got to a place where if we could get a bus. We would always be, not a special bus in this case. It was a bus where there were the native people, you know, with the chickens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah, oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chickens up above our head and they're standing up. And I remember we were, um, the two of us were sitting in chairs on the bus in the seats and here was a Masai man, and he's there with his big cane and, you know. Oh my god. But we had some experiences, really, really experiencing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you imparted that to your daughter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Developed in her that kind of curiosity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.450873269583355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The chickens up above our head and they're standing up. And I remember we were, um, the two of us were sitting in chairs on the bus in the seats and here was a Masai man, and he's there with his big cane and, you know. Oh my god. But we had some experiences, really, really experiencing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure you imparted that to your daughter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Developed in her that kind of curiosity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As she was growing up, I told her, I had to tell her her background about her father and my experiences as well. And then each time I would go to some of those Peace Corps meetings in Ohio, she was there. Other things I would point out to her, even the characteristics of the Ethiopians and the Indians and East Africans. I had lived there long enough that I could look at people and tell pretty much what country they were from. I didn't know the language that well, but I could listen to the accents and even now, you know, where I work we have people who work as security guards and aides in the building. And if they're new and they walk in the building, I pick up right away, oh, he's African. She's this, you know? It doesn't take me but a minute and I pick up right away that they're from a different country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your school, do you do any discussion or informational activities about Peace Corps? Do kids ask you about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.723192521759283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Developed in her that kind of curiosity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As she was growing up, I told her, I had to tell her her background about her father and my experiences as well. And then each time I would go to some of those Peace Corps meetings in Ohio, she was there. Other things I would point out to her, even the characteristics of the Ethiopians and the Indians and East Africans. I had lived there long enough that I could look at people and tell pretty much what country they were from. I didn't know the language that well, but I could listen to the accents and even now, you know, where I work we have people who work as security guards and aides in the building. And if they're new and they walk in the building, I pick up right away, oh, he's African. She's this, you know? It doesn't take me but a minute and I pick up right away that they're from a different country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your school, do you do any discussion or informational activities about Peace Corps? Do kids ask you about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been a while, but I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back, did you talk about Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0257694686214256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. As she was growing up, I told her, I had to tell her her background about her father and my experiences as well. And then each time I would go to some of those Peace Corps meetings in Ohio, she was there. Other things I would point out to her, even the characteristics of the Ethiopians and the Indians and East Africans. I had lived there long enough that I could look at people and tell pretty much what country they were from. I didn't know the language that well, but I could listen to the accents and even now, you know, where I work we have people who work as security guards and aides in the building. And if they're new and they walk in the building, I pick up right away, oh, he's African. She's this, you know? It doesn't take me but a minute and I pick up right away that they're from a different country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your school, do you do any discussion or informational activities about Peace Corps? Do kids ask you about it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been a while, but I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back, did you talk about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did talk about it to some extent, but I found they were all apathetic. They really weren't that interested in it, but not the kids weren't interested, but I found adults were. When I first came back and that year that I was there, they were all asking me. You know, because I would tell them and they would ask questions and they were interested in it. And I had two or three boxes of slides and I would show my slides to them, you know? But now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For us old timers, it seems like a long ways away. So you did attempt to get involved in one of the early Buffalo affiliates and now you're involved in the new one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3619660762460284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's been a while, but I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came back, did you talk about Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did talk about it to some extent, but I found they were all apathetic. They really weren't that interested in it, but not the kids weren't interested, but I found adults were. When I first came back and that year that I was there, they were all asking me. You know, because I would tell them and they would ask questions and they were interested in it. And I had two or three boxes of slides and I would show my slides to them, you know? But now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For us old timers, it seems like a long ways away. So you did attempt to get involved in one of the early Buffalo affiliates and now you're involved in the new one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel hopeful about that one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.735517862495587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. I did talk about it to some extent, but I found they were all apathetic. They really weren't that interested in it, but not the kids weren't interested, but I found adults were. When I first came back and that year that I was there, they were all asking me. You know, because I would tell them and they would ask questions and they were interested in it. And I had two or three boxes of slides and I would show my slides to them, you know? But now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For us old timers, it seems like a long ways away. So you did attempt to get involved in one of the early Buffalo affiliates and now you're involved in the new one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel hopeful about that one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you like to see that group do in Buffalo? Is it, do you think of it just as a kind of a nostalgia or otherwise?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1505754027728745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You feel hopeful about that one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you like to see that group do in Buffalo? Is it, do you think of it just as a kind of a nostalgia or otherwise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nostalgia, but I would really like to see them become involved with the international community. I don't want to say do something to help, but be around international people, continue working with them, learning about their culture, learning what has happened over there, because so much has changed. And then also learning why are they here? How do they feel? What is, um, what's going on with them? Are they having culture shock? If so, then is there anything we can do? Maybe to help them carry on their traditions, their culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you interested in getting involved in the International Institute with Pam Kethy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.611750447525416, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you like to see that group do in Buffalo? Is it, do you think of it just as a kind of a nostalgia or otherwise?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nostalgia, but I would really like to see them become involved with the international community. I don't want to say do something to help, but be around international people, continue working with them, learning about their culture, learning what has happened over there, because so much has changed. And then also learning why are they here? How do they feel? What is, um, what's going on with them? Are they having culture shock? If so, then is there anything we can do? Maybe to help them carry on their traditions, their culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you interested in getting involved in the International Institute with Pam Kethy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, eventually, not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, you're busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.124167163917129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, nostalgia, but I would really like to see them become involved with the international community. I don't want to say do something to help, but be around international people, continue working with them, learning about their culture, learning what has happened over there, because so much has changed. And then also learning why are they here? How do they feel? What is, um, what's going on with them? Are they having culture shock? If so, then is there anything we can do? Maybe to help them carry on their traditions, their culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you interested in getting involved in the International Institute with Pam Kethy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, eventually, not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, you're busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a little on your plate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.582407959907921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, eventually, not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no, you're busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a little on your plate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, you know, maybe a couple years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.09156439989769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a little on your plate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, you know, maybe a couple years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Peace Corps, particularly, and I would like to see the group, um, recruit, do a little bit more recruiting. I know it's difficult because Americans now tend to be so selfish. Maybe that's the wrong word, but they're all into themselves. All Americans. And I've watched this over a number of years where, uh. I know when I was growing up, the family was trying to take care of the family and make sure the children had what they were supposed to have. But I find it's even more so now. People are just into what they can do for themselves and what they can get from themselves. And if you're not involved with, you know. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your neighborhood has undergone some changes in the 30 years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.6572937776640995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later on, you know, maybe a couple years from now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Peace Corps, particularly, and I would like to see the group, um, recruit, do a little bit more recruiting. I know it's difficult because Americans now tend to be so selfish. Maybe that's the wrong word, but they're all into themselves. All Americans. And I've watched this over a number of years where, uh. I know when I was growing up, the family was trying to take care of the family and make sure the children had what they were supposed to have. But I find it's even more so now. People are just into what they can do for themselves and what they can get from themselves. And if you're not involved with, you know. [inaudible]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your neighborhood has undergone some changes in the 30 years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a lot of changes. But those are the kinds of things that I would like to. The nostalgia, that's going to be there, but I'd like to see more young people get involved with having the opportunity to go abroad. Particularly young African Americans. I find that our youth are lost. They're floundering, they're reaching at some immediate goals, which may not be the very best for them. Thinking that this is going to work, but it only brings responsibilities and problems. I don't see our young African Americans taking advantage of some of the opportunities that are available."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That have a hard earned by their ancestors."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5477280900742088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I see the difference in my youth when we did not have free scholarships and we didn't have, I mean no one was offering the scholarships as I see today. My parents had to pay for me to go to college. When the University of Buffalo transferred from a private institution to the state, sure, they gave us that little award, state award that they were offering, $250 a semester. But my parents had to pay for me to go to school. And then simple things like bus fare to get to high school, I shelled out the money. But nowadays, you know, our kids are looking for other folks to do for them and they're not doing for themselves, but then, you know, Buffalo provides bus passes for them, free lunches for them, free education, free books, free, free, free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For all students or just for African Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the majority of students if their incomes are what have you. Or if they live outside of a certain distance. But when I look at the general population of the school where I'm presently working, the majority of them are getting free bus passes. And when it comes to the end of the year when they're ready to graduate, a lot of the organizations and sororities, the city, the community agencies, they have these $500, $600 scholarships. And they're groping, they're just waiting for the kids to apply, to give away the money. Yet those children will not even go to the guidance office to look up what the scholarships are. And when it comes to filling out the applications, they don't even want to do it. So the money sits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet when I was in school, they didn't have these things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you managed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.830808988971343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the majority of students if their incomes are what have you. Or if they live outside of a certain distance. But when I look at the general population of the school where I'm presently working, the majority of them are getting free bus passes. And when it comes to the end of the year when they're ready to graduate, a lot of the organizations and sororities, the city, the community agencies, they have these $500, $600 scholarships. And they're groping, they're just waiting for the kids to apply, to give away the money. Yet those children will not even go to the guidance office to look up what the scholarships are. And when it comes to filling out the applications, they don't even want to do it. So the money sits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's terrible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet when I was in school, they didn't have these things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you managed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we managed, you know, and when the opportunity came, we took advantage. Here the opportunities are right there and the kids, I don't want that. I don't want this. Well what for, you know? So I don't. That's my biggest problem when I'm teaching, you know with the kids. I see all of this stuff and I'm thinking, they could do better, there's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help or not to help. Is it worse? I don't know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.14534332107927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And yet when I was in school, they didn't have these things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you managed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we managed, you know, and when the opportunity came, we took advantage. Here the opportunities are right there and the kids, I don't want that. I don't want this. Well what for, you know? So I don't. That's my biggest problem when I'm teaching, you know with the kids. I see all of this stuff and I'm thinking, they could do better, there's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help or not to help. Is it worse? I don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talk to them, and it's a whole different realm. They don't understand or they don't have the background of the family to say, hey, this is available to you. You have the opportunity, take advantage of it. And I guess there's so many other things out there, it's just not. They don't think of it as being opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, well, when you were in serving in Ethiopia, did you feel you were filling a need that Ethiopians had? You individually and your colleagues in the Peace Corps, filling a need?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4948259123103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we managed, you know, and when the opportunity came, we took advantage. Here the opportunities are right there and the kids, I don't want that. I don't want this. Well what for, you know? So I don't. That's my biggest problem when I'm teaching, you know with the kids. I see all of this stuff and I'm thinking, they could do better, there's nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To help or not to help. Is it worse? I don't know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I talk to them, and it's a whole different realm. They don't understand or they don't have the background of the family to say, hey, this is available to you. You have the opportunity, take advantage of it. And I guess there's so many other things out there, it's just not. They don't think of it as being opportunities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, well, when you were in serving in Ethiopia, did you feel you were filling a need that Ethiopians had? You individually and your colleagues in the Peace Corps, filling a need?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, at the time, I thought I was filling a need. You know, giving them an opportunity to develop a skill, hopefully to obtain some type of employment, which I saw some of them did. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to keep up with any of the students that I had at that time. But I had heard that there were some, particularly the young men, the boys in the school. Some of them did get an opportunity to come to the United States to study. So whatever, you know, um, we were offering them, some of them did get an opportunity to take advantage of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You touched somebody, certainly. How about getting Ethiopians to feel more comfortable about Americans, were you able to have any impact that way? Was the American way of life too huge a shock for them or do you think that they learned something from you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4222577672294916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. Also, it may have been. I'm looking at this two ways. Those Ethiopians who had come to the United, had an opportunity to come to the United States, and actually get involved in the culture here, and then went back to their country. Now, what we were doing, they could understand. But I think the typical native person, native Ethiopian, I don't really think that we did that much. Because I didn't see, for instance, the young man who was our servant, not servant, but the guard there, I didn't see him making any changes. And the young girl who was doing the cooking, I didn't see her making too many changes either. But we did have to teach her the things that were necessary for us to survive, the boiling of the water, how to cook foods the way we wanted it cooked. But then at the same time, she taught us some things too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Yes, you learned about Ethiopia and Ethiopia learned about you. But how about this young woman when she gets, when she applies for a job with another European family? She can come in, I know how to boil water, I know how to be sanitary. I know that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so she spread that. How about in your classroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, now that we're mentioning it. Now, when I went back after the year, when I went back to Ethiopia, um, my husband and I looked her up and we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew she was well trained."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8025086302549904, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so she spread that. How about in your classroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, now that we're mentioning it. Now, when I went back after the year, when I went back to Ethiopia, um, my husband and I looked her up and we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew she was well trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your technique in the classroom? You were taking to Ethiopia things that you took for granted in the American classroom, which was discipline, promptness. You were prepared. You, you know, probably worked with your class a little bit differently than a traditional teacher might have. Probably had some conversation in the class. You probably asked, looked for interesting things to do with the kids. Would that be a change for them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2250095891722115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, now that we're mentioning it. Now, when I went back after the year, when I went back to Ethiopia, um, my husband and I looked her up and we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you knew she was well trained."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your technique in the classroom? You were taking to Ethiopia things that you took for granted in the American classroom, which was discipline, promptness. You were prepared. You, you know, probably worked with your class a little bit differently than a traditional teacher might have. Probably had some conversation in the class. You probably asked, looked for interesting things to do with the kids. Would that be a change for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For over there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Of course, it was a Jesuit school, just kind of sophisticated, that's a little bit of a problem. You've already had that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.694455099080235, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we hired her again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about your technique in the classroom? You were taking to Ethiopia things that you took for granted in the American classroom, which was discipline, promptness. You were prepared. You, you know, probably worked with your class a little bit differently than a traditional teacher might have. Probably had some conversation in the class. You probably asked, looked for interesting things to do with the kids. Would that be a change for them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For over there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Of course, it was a Jesuit school, just kind of sophisticated, that's a little bit of a problem. You've already had that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's what I'm thinking. They already have that. I don't think we were given any outside duties. You know, like now you have hall duty and you cafeteria duty and you've got your clubs. I don't remember having to do any of those things because the Jesuits pretty much handled all of those things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you had a special circumstance. How about, um, with your neighbors out on the street. Americans are notoriously more friendly. Would they say, oh, there's the American, wave at her? Or would they just say, there's the American, turn aside, ignore her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2160612212002615, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For over there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Of course, it was a Jesuit school, just kind of sophisticated, that's a little bit of a problem. You've already had that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's what I'm thinking. They already have that. I don't think we were given any outside duties. You know, like now you have hall duty and you cafeteria duty and you've got your clubs. I don't remember having to do any of those things because the Jesuits pretty much handled all of those things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you had a special circumstance. How about, um, with your neighbors out on the street. Americans are notoriously more friendly. Would they say, oh, there's the American, wave at her? Or would they just say, there's the American, turn aside, ignore her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, see there again, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, you were, again, you were in the city."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.7956235791114015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that's what I'm thinking. They already have that. I don't think we were given any outside duties. You know, like now you have hall duty and you cafeteria duty and you've got your clubs. I don't remember having to do any of those things because the Jesuits pretty much handled all of those things for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you had a special circumstance. How about, um, with your neighbors out on the street. Americans are notoriously more friendly. Would they say, oh, there's the American, wave at her? Or would they just say, there's the American, turn aside, ignore her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, see there again, I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, you were, again, you were in the city."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were the city, so. We really didn't have any problem one way or the other with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's fine. I just wondered, you know, how did they feel about having Americans among them? You probably weren't the first."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.427921860000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He did come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But were you surprised when he came or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. I think at that point I didn't. I thought about it. But then he went through whatever the formalities were. And he said yes, and he came to a showing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And had his dignitaries there and there I was standing and I didn't. I was standing. I didn't know whether to shake his hand or what. So finally, the emperor raised his hand and I shook his hand. And I was that close to him. I met him several times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he remember you, the later times?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.142135400000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no. I think at that point I didn't. I thought about it. But then he went through whatever the formalities were. And he said yes, and he came to a showing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And had his dignitaries there and there I was standing and I didn't. I was standing. I didn't know whether to shake his hand or what. So finally, the emperor raised his hand and I shook his hand. And I was that close to him. I met him several times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did he remember you, the later times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I suppose he met a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's impressive, that's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.706340000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I suppose he met a lot of people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's impressive, that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was interesting also in that here you're thinking that he's a big person but he was short like me, small stature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But regal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, very regal. And I met, um. We continued our own religion, in that Mary and I started attending a Methodist church there. It was a missionary church. And so even after both of us completed our tour of duty, we kept in contact with these missionaries. They stayed there in Ethiopia until after their revolution and then came back to the United States. In the meantime, she wrote a book about her experiences as a missionary there and then how her family helped Haile Selassie's grandchildren get out of the country and the different things that they did. So I've got a copy of that book. And we kept in contact with that family for a long period of time, and I don't know what happened. I think they moved or some, you know, you lose contact with these people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things happen, that's true."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.562600000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was interesting also in that here you're thinking that he's a big person but he was short like me, small stature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But regal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, very regal. And I met, um. We continued our own religion, in that Mary and I started attending a Methodist church there. It was a missionary church. And so even after both of us completed our tour of duty, we kept in contact with these missionaries. They stayed there in Ethiopia until after their revolution and then came back to the United States. In the meantime, she wrote a book about her experiences as a missionary there and then how her family helped Haile Selassie's grandchildren get out of the country and the different things that they did. So I've got a copy of that book. And we kept in contact with that family for a long period of time, and I don't know what happened. I think they moved or some, you know, you lose contact with these people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things happen, that's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I wrote, I think the last time I wrote, the letter came back, and I don't know where they are right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, we have a few minutes left. Do you have any summary of the impact of your Peace Corps experience on your entire life or anything like that you'd like to say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think if I had started right after college at that time and had been teaching, I would have had maybe 35 in 10 years ago and I could have retired. But the fact that I went to the Peace Corps and took that chance, and a couple of other chances in terms of my life, when I finally did get myself settled in, then the educational field had changed considerably. It's very difficult to find employment here, at least in the city of Buffalo. And I found that at some point in time, I was even applying to other cities trying to find steady employment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I have opted to stay right here in the city of Buffalo. And I ended up working, uh, at various places, one of which is Bryant and Stratton Business Institute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With adults, using my skills and my experiences. I have also been adjunct professor at ECC Community College [Erie Community College], as well as Buff State [Buffalo State College], for a number of years. Um, so that again, expanded my career and my experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It also detracted from your New York state tension."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I have opted to stay right here in the city of Buffalo. And I ended up working, uh, at various places, one of which is Bryant and Stratton Business Institute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With adults, using my skills and my experiences. I have also been adjunct professor at ECC Community College [Erie Community College], as well as Buff State [Buffalo State College], for a number of years. Um, so that again, expanded my career and my experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It also detracted from your New York state tension."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. The years I spent in Bryant and Stratton, that's the biggest thing, because I was there for about 10 years. So I lost not only the years I spent in Ethiopia, because New York State doesn't accept Peace Corps, I also lost additional years by being with the Bryant and Stratton, which means now the impact on my life is that I'm still working, trying to catch up, which I probably will never be able to catch up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Often you do something for idealistic reasons, and you don't think when you're 20 something that this will have impact when you are 60 something, but unfortunately it does."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With adults, using my skills and my experiences. I have also been adjunct professor at ECC Community College [Erie Community College], as well as Buff State [Buffalo State College], for a number of years. Um, so that again, expanded my career and my experiences."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It also detracted from your New York state tension."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. The years I spent in Bryant and Stratton, that's the biggest thing, because I was there for about 10 years. So I lost not only the years I spent in Ethiopia, because New York State doesn't accept Peace Corps, I also lost additional years by being with the Bryant and Stratton, which means now the impact on my life is that I'm still working, trying to catch up, which I probably will never be able to catch up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Often you do something for idealistic reasons, and you don't think when you're 20 something that this will have impact when you are 60 something, but unfortunately it does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it has, um, it has impacted. But then I look at that and I say, well, if I had taken that choice and not had the opportunity, would I be able to do it now? To go to the Peace Corps? Would I even think about that? If, let's say that I had started teaching and hopefully gotten married and had children and grandchildren, then I would not have been able to do that right now, I don't think, with a husband and a family and so forth. It would not be the thing that I could have been able to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not unless you're widowed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. The years I spent in Bryant and Stratton, that's the biggest thing, because I was there for about 10 years. So I lost not only the years I spent in Ethiopia, because New York State doesn't accept Peace Corps, I also lost additional years by being with the Bryant and Stratton, which means now the impact on my life is that I'm still working, trying to catch up, which I probably will never be able to catch up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Often you do something for idealistic reasons, and you don't think when you're 20 something that this will have impact when you are 60 something, but unfortunately it does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it has, um, it has impacted. But then I look at that and I say, well, if I had taken that choice and not had the opportunity, would I be able to do it now? To go to the Peace Corps? Would I even think about that? If, let's say that I had started teaching and hopefully gotten married and had children and grandchildren, then I would not have been able to do that right now, I don't think, with a husband and a family and so forth. It would not be the thing that I could have been able to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not unless you're widowed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even widowed, you don't know how your health is going to be. You don't know whether that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Property by then and you'd worry about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And even widowed, you don't know how your health is going to be. You don't know whether that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Property by then and you'd worry about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with a lot of responsibilities. So, um. I don't regret."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never regretted that experience. It's the one part of my life that I said, if I could do just that section, that segment again, I would do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Should we wrap on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00216:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, with a lot of responsibilities. So, um. I don't regret."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never regretted that experience. It's the one part of my life that I said, if I could do just that section, that segment again, I would do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Should we wrap on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent. Thank you very much for your time, Cynthia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.338612928076818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was an education volunteer, so I taught English in primary school. Two schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, good. I look forward to getting the details about that pretty soon. Let's find out who you were before you joined the Peace Corps. Where were you born?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born outside of Washington, D.C., and I grew up in Washington, D.C. I went to public school there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington, D.C., yep. My mother is a French teacher and my father is an entrepreneur. And I grew up in a bilingual household. I spoke French and English. And I have dual citizenship. So really, language education was always a part of my upbringing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.931792142307576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born outside of Washington, D.C., and I grew up in Washington, D.C. I went to public school there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington, D.C., yep. My mother is a French teacher and my father is an entrepreneur. And I grew up in a bilingual household. I spoke French and English. And I have dual citizenship. So really, language education was always a part of my upbringing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I have a younger sister and a younger brother. I'm the eldest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The eldest of three. And you all speak both English and French?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.590880158119528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Washington, D.C., yep. My mother is a French teacher and my father is an entrepreneur. And I grew up in a bilingual household. I spoke French and English. And I have dual citizenship. So really, language education was always a part of my upbringing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And did you have siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I have a younger sister and a younger brother. I'm the eldest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The eldest of three. And you all speak both English and French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how wonderful. And so you went to public schools and then you went to. Your parents were, um, they had both gone to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.323200175688365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I have a younger sister and a younger brother. I'm the eldest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The eldest of three. And you all speak both English and French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how wonderful. And so you went to public schools and then you went to. Your parents were, um, they had both gone to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So what did you, did you do family vacations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.914666861875961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how wonderful. And so you went to public schools and then you went to. Your parents were, um, they had both gone to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So what did you, did you do family vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My, since my mother was a teacher, she had the summers off. And it was always very important for her for us to have experiences in France with the culture and my family, because all of my family on her side lived over there. And still does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your mother was born in France?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.460740957639957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. So what did you, did you do family vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My, since my mother was a teacher, she had the summers off. And it was always very important for her for us to have experiences in France with the culture and my family, because all of my family on her side lived over there. And still does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your mother was born in France?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. So as a child with my brother and sister, we would always go to France for the whole summer, which was just an exceptional childhood and experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. Where, where in France?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8452677307110634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My, since my mother was a teacher, she had the summers off. And it was always very important for her for us to have experiences in France with the culture and my family, because all of my family on her side lived over there. And still does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your mother was born in France?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. So as a child with my brother and sister, we would always go to France for the whole summer, which was just an exceptional childhood and experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. Where, where in France?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority of my family lives in Lyon, which is a big city in the southern part of France. And I, uh, my grandmother moved out of Lyon quite some time ago and just lives in the south of France in a little village on her own land. I met my best friend there when I was five. And we're still very close best friends, so I have a lot of connections to that region still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. I'm going to be going to Lyon next month so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.27251970079007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was. So as a child with my brother and sister, we would always go to France for the whole summer, which was just an exceptional childhood and experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. Where, where in France?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority of my family lives in Lyon, which is a big city in the southern part of France. And I, uh, my grandmother moved out of Lyon quite some time ago and just lives in the south of France in a little village on her own land. I met my best friend there when I was five. And we're still very close best friends, so I have a lot of connections to that region still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. I'm going to be going to Lyon next month so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the interview. We'll talk."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.747244111988967, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The majority of my family lives in Lyon, which is a big city in the southern part of France. And I, uh, my grandmother moved out of Lyon quite some time ago and just lives in the south of France in a little village on her own land. I met my best friend there when I was five. And we're still very close best friends, so I have a lot of connections to that region still."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. I'm going to be going to Lyon next month so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the interview. We'll talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had this very, very deep international, bicultural, bilingual experience from the beginning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.27471567998774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the interview. We'll talk."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had this very, very deep international, bicultural, bilingual experience from the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. Then you went to high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.860795199986378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you had this very, very deep international, bicultural, bilingual experience from the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabulous. Then you went to high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also in D.C.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.124438518501701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also in D.C.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Public school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was called, it is called School Without Walls. It's a, it's a public school, but it's also a magnet school in Washington, D.C., where it doesn't have a certain neighborhood. It's on the campus of a major university. And so it attracts high achieving students from all over the city. And you have to pass an interview and a test to be accepted. And it's, you know, it's a bit of a selective process so. But it was a wonderful high school experience. I really loved my high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Did you study another language, well, did you have to take high school classes in French?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6938205761130005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Public school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was called, it is called School Without Walls. It's a, it's a public school, but it's also a magnet school in Washington, D.C., where it doesn't have a certain neighborhood. It's on the campus of a major university. And so it attracts high achieving students from all over the city. And you have to pass an interview and a test to be accepted. And it's, you know, it's a bit of a selective process so. But it was a wonderful high school experience. I really loved my high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Did you study another language, well, did you have to take high school classes in French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not, because I already spoke French. Right. And so because I already spoke French, when I was first enrolling in school in kindergarten, my mother told me that I was going to be taking Spanish. So I started, I've been taking Spanish since kindergarten. Every year I would take Spanish and up until high school. And then in high school I surpassed the levels that they offered at my school. So I would take them at the universities around, around Washington, D.C. And then I continued Spanish language in college so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. In high school, in addition to. Boy, that sounds like a very rich experience. Did you have other extracurricular things that you were involved in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.918297007546914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not, because I already spoke French. Right. And so because I already spoke French, when I was first enrolling in school in kindergarten, my mother told me that I was going to be taking Spanish. So I started, I've been taking Spanish since kindergarten. Every year I would take Spanish and up until high school. And then in high school I surpassed the levels that they offered at my school. So I would take them at the universities around, around Washington, D.C. And then I continued Spanish language in college so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. In high school, in addition to. Boy, that sounds like a very rich experience. Did you have other extracurricular things that you were involved in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language was a big part of my extracurriculars because it took place at universities. I mean, it was part of the curriculum, but I felt like it demanded more of me than regular high school classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "However, I also was in theater in high school. I really enjoy theater. My high school was very small, however, so our theater program, or any program at all really was not very large. So I think that the first two years in high school, I was, I participated in things and then I kind of petered off once we took AP language classes and we're applying to colleges and all of that. I don't really remember doing that much extracurricular because I was so engrossed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In summers, did you have, did you have summer jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.575885563941015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the language was a big part of my extracurriculars because it took place at universities. I mean, it was part of the curriculum, but I felt like it demanded more of me than regular high school classes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "However, I also was in theater in high school. I really enjoy theater. My high school was very small, however, so our theater program, or any program at all really was not very large. So I think that the first two years in high school, I was, I participated in things and then I kind of petered off once we took AP language classes and we're applying to colleges and all of that. I don't really remember doing that much extracurricular because I was so engrossed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In summers, did you have, did you have summer jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, but you went to France."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.118377239433352, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I continued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh no, but you went to France."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I continued going to France, and I don't remember in high school. I think I still went to France and I took some classes in France to learn how to write in France."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was, I had learned how to speak. And I, I would write, but I would write phonetically. And anyone who has ever studied the French language knows that that is not how you write it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So you studied that in France."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.798196932703724, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I continued going to France, and I don't remember in high school. I think I still went to France and I took some classes in France to learn how to write in France."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was, I had learned how to speak. And I, I would write, but I would write phonetically. And anyone who has ever studied the French language knows that that is not how you write it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So you studied that in France."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I studied that, yep, one year in France. And I, I did, I think babysitting jobs a few times over the summer. I really took care of kids for a while. Yeah. Nothing very formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in French?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.553552147448582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was, I had learned how to speak. And I, I would write, but I would write phonetically. And anyone who has ever studied the French language knows that that is not how you write it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. So you studied that in France."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I studied that, yep, one year in France. And I, I did, I think babysitting jobs a few times over the summer. I really took care of kids for a while. Yeah. Nothing very formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And then you went to college. Where did you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.281724608276202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I studied that, yep, one year in France. And I, I did, I think babysitting jobs a few times over the summer. I really took care of kids for a while. Yeah. Nothing very formal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in French?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And then you went to college. Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Wisconsin Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right here in Madison?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.090805120306891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. And then you went to college. Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to the University of Wisconsin Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right here in Madison?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here in Madison."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. What brought you here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.615644883822897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, being from Washington, D.C., which is not a state, we, uh. Basically as a resident, we were offered a scholarship. I think it was back in the nineties, I'm not quite sure. But anyways, there's a scholarship for D.C. residents if they wish to go to a state university. Of course, outside of Washington, D.C., you will pay in-state tuition."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, terrific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anywhere. There is a scholarship that you will pay in-state tuition at any state school because Washington, D.C., is not a state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't have a state school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.461827648692108, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anywhere. There is a scholarship that you will pay in-state tuition at any state school because Washington, D.C., is not a state."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't have a state school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We don't have a state school. So already I was looking at state universities and Wisconsin Madison really offered the breadth of options that I was looking for. It had a good geography program, which I was looking into. And it just had really the, the lifestyle I was also looking for, in living in a city, but also having a major university life there. And so it really just was perfect for what I was looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good. So you came here to Wisconsin, to Madison. You lived in a dorm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.977564998385318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. We don't have a state school. So already I was looking at state universities and Wisconsin Madison really offered the breadth of options that I was looking for. It had a good geography program, which I was looking into. And it just had really the, the lifestyle I was also looking for, in living in a city, but also having a major university life there. And so it really just was perfect for what I was looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh good. So you came here to Wisconsin, to Madison. You lived in a dorm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, actually. Um. Although I was very excited to come to Wisconsin Madison, I was not offered housing the first year, so I found my own housing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were not a Wisconsin resident?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.737734565907799, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. And, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because you were not a Wisconsin resident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think Wisconsin Madison, I don't know if they, if it's still the same thing nowadays, but they just didn't have enough room in the dorms for all of their incoming students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a handful of them that were not guaranteed housing at all. And so that housing was already full by the time I had accepted. And so I didn't know anybody in Madison, much less Wisconsin, just anybody at all. And so my parents got me, helped me sign up for an apartment that was on campus or very close to campus. So that was the first year. I lived in this apartment and I still had a roommate and everything. And it was very affiliated to the school, but it was not a dorm experience. The second year I did live in a dorm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. It's just the reverse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.708593962119776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think Wisconsin Madison, I don't know if they, if it's still the same thing nowadays, but they just didn't have enough room in the dorms for all of their incoming students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a handful of them that were not guaranteed housing at all. And so that housing was already full by the time I had accepted. And so I didn't know anybody in Madison, much less Wisconsin, just anybody at all. And so my parents got me, helped me sign up for an apartment that was on campus or very close to campus. So that was the first year. I lived in this apartment and I still had a roommate and everything. And it was very affiliated to the school, but it was not a dorm experience. The second year I did live in a dorm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. It's just the reverse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the experience of so many kids. And so what did you study here, geography?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.676215513466417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was a handful of them that were not guaranteed housing at all. And so that housing was already full by the time I had accepted. And so I didn't know anybody in Madison, much less Wisconsin, just anybody at all. And so my parents got me, helped me sign up for an apartment that was on campus or very close to campus. So that was the first year. I lived in this apartment and I still had a roommate and everything. And it was very affiliated to the school, but it was not a dorm experience. The second year I did live in a dorm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. It's just the reverse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of the experience of so many kids. And so what did you study here, geography?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Geography and Spanish. With a minor in European studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Yeah. And in, did you have to, did you have to do any work to afford your expenses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.896562362304218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Geography and Spanish. With a minor in European studies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Yeah. And in, did you have to, did you have to do any work to afford your expenses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked. It was mostly for me to pay for my food and housing and all of that. My family helped me cover tuition. So I did have jobs. I worked at the language lab in the university language building for I think a year and a half. It was my sophomore year I worked there. And then my junior year I studied abroad and when I came back, I think I worked there for another semester. And then I also worked as a waiter, waitress, at one of the university restaurants for, that holds meetings and things like that for alumni."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked there for a year as well, so I had little jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You referred to study abroad. Where did you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.329513735893575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I worked. It was mostly for me to pay for my food and housing and all of that. My family helped me cover tuition. So I did have jobs. I worked at the language lab in the university language building for I think a year and a half. It was my sophomore year I worked there. And then my junior year I studied abroad and when I came back, I think I worked there for another semester. And then I also worked as a waiter, waitress, at one of the university restaurants for, that holds meetings and things like that for alumni."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked there for a year as well, so I had little jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You referred to study abroad. Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Buenos Aires, Argentina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a whole. year, a whole academic year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.810570817659528, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked there for a year as well, so I had little jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You referred to study abroad. Where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to Buenos Aires, Argentina."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For a whole. year, a whole academic year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness. How rich this is. So you really are now trilingual?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.938976318098182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my goodness. How rich this is. So you really are now trilingual?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am trilingual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Bueno."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Si."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, and um. Oh, I'm just trying to grab this super international background. And then when you graduated here, from UW, did you immediately apply to the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.109847306294051, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Si."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, and um. Oh, I'm just trying to grab this super international background. And then when you graduated here, from UW, did you immediately apply to the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I applied actually while I was still in school. I had always wanted to do the Peace Corps, and I just knew that that was the next thing that I wanted to do as soon as I had my degree. I wanted to join the Peace Corps. So I applied, you know, starting in October, I think, my senior year. And the whole process takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4553858958822787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I applied actually while I was still in school. I had always wanted to do the Peace Corps, and I just knew that that was the next thing that I wanted to do as soon as I had my degree. I wanted to join the Peace Corps. So I applied, you know, starting in October, I think, my senior year. And the whole process takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took, uh, it took several months. I think I got my letter, my acceptance letter, in July, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you'd just graduated a month and a half earlier?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8393176620914207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I applied actually while I was still in school. I had always wanted to do the Peace Corps, and I just knew that that was the next thing that I wanted to do as soon as I had my degree. I wanted to join the Peace Corps. So I applied, you know, starting in October, I think, my senior year. And the whole process takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took, uh, it took several months. I think I got my letter, my acceptance letter, in July, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you'd just graduated a month and a half earlier?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did the acceptance letter say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6287872371499024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did the acceptance letter say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It said, congratulations. You've been accepted to Peace Corps Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And me, freshly with my degree in geography, had to look up Lesotho on Google Maps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know right away that it was pronounced Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7431923692042557, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not. I was saying Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where is Lesotho? I knew it was in Africa, but I did not, I wasn't entirely sure where it was. Like most people, I assume."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you found out where it was. And at some point in there, found out how, how the name of the country is pronounced."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.159102632449173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where is Lesotho? I knew it was in Africa, but I did not, I wasn't entirely sure where it was. Like most people, I assume."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you found out where it was. And at some point in there, found out how, how the name of the country is pronounced."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I didn't find that out until I actually arrived. And you walking around saying Lesotho and people were looking at me like, what are you talking about? It's Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't have been the only one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.621225147165747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did my research."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you found out where it was. And at some point in there, found out how, how the name of the country is pronounced."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I didn't find that out until I actually arrived. And you walking around saying Lesotho and people were looking at me like, what are you talking about? It's Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You couldn't have been the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. I think we were all walking around saying that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, of course. So where did you, um, before I talk about where, where you met your fellow trainees. How did your parents feel about this, your going off to Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2484261076120324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all. I think we were all walking around saying that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, of course. So where did you, um, before I talk about where, where you met your fellow trainees. How did your parents feel about this, your going off to Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother was nervous. My mother was born in a different country, in France. And there isn't the history of the Peace Corps in France, um, or really that much volunteering in general. And even though she definitely supported me volunteering, she just, it didn't have that familiar ring to it like it did for my father, for example, or other Americans who have heard of the Peace Corps probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, know about it. It really, it didn't for her. So she, uh, she was just a little nervous because she wasn't familiar with it. And I really took the time over Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and all of that to really sit down with her and talk with her about it. My father was not concerned about me. He knew very well that I could take care of myself. But my, my mother needed a little bit more coaxing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But she didn't ever say, don't go, please don't go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4982512306800357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My mother was nervous. My mother was born in a different country, in France. And there isn't the history of the Peace Corps in France, um, or really that much volunteering in general. And even though she definitely supported me volunteering, she just, it didn't have that familiar ring to it like it did for my father, for example, or other Americans who have heard of the Peace Corps probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, know about it. It really, it didn't for her. So she, uh, she was just a little nervous because she wasn't familiar with it. And I really took the time over Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and all of that to really sit down with her and talk with her about it. My father was not concerned about me. He knew very well that I could take care of myself. But my, my mother needed a little bit more coaxing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But she didn't ever say, don't go, please don't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My parents have always been very, very trusting with me, even in my teenage years and everything, just understanding that as long as I have thought through my decision, you know, that I, they, I'm free to do what I want to do and I'm an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a matter of appeasing your mother's fears."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.775834700755595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, know about it. It really, it didn't for her. So she, uh, she was just a little nervous because she wasn't familiar with it. And I really took the time over Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and all of that to really sit down with her and talk with her about it. My father was not concerned about me. He knew very well that I could take care of myself. But my, my mother needed a little bit more coaxing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But she didn't ever say, don't go, please don't go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My parents have always been very, very trusting with me, even in my teenage years and everything, just understanding that as long as I have thought through my decision, you know, that I, they, I'm free to do what I want to do and I'm an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a matter of appeasing your mother's fears."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And she was she supported me once she really understood what the program was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So was there a goodbye party or something? You remember saying goodbye?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0842607786173275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. My parents have always been very, very trusting with me, even in my teenage years and everything, just understanding that as long as I have thought through my decision, you know, that I, they, I'm free to do what I want to do and I'm an adult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's just a matter of appeasing your mother's fears."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And she was she supported me once she really understood what the program was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So was there a goodbye party or something? You remember saying goodbye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In Washington, D.C., there was a little get together with some family friends and my friends in Washington, D.C., and we had a little a little dinner and a little goodbye party. I didn't want it to be too dramatic because I felt like I'll be back, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you did come back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4269564206859195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And she was she supported me once she really understood what the program was all about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. So was there a goodbye party or something? You remember saying goodbye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In Washington, D.C., there was a little get together with some family friends and my friends in Washington, D.C., and we had a little a little dinner and a little goodbye party. I didn't want it to be too dramatic because I felt like I'll be back, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you did come back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did come back so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went off to training, did Peace Corps give you a list of things that you had to do? Did you have certain medical procedures to be done? Eyeglasses, wisdom teeth, vaccinations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6966182452065772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In Washington, D.C., there was a little get together with some family friends and my friends in Washington, D.C., and we had a little a little dinner and a little goodbye party. I didn't want it to be too dramatic because I felt like I'll be back, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, you did come back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did come back so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went off to training, did Peace Corps give you a list of things that you had to do? Did you have certain medical procedures to be done? Eyeglasses, wisdom teeth, vaccinations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. I had to have a few vaccinations. I had most of the vaccinations already because I had done extensive traveling in South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right, going to Buenos Aires."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9962424946739747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I did come back so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before you went off to training, did Peace Corps give you a list of things that you had to do? Did you have certain medical procedures to be done? Eyeglasses, wisdom teeth, vaccinations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. I had to have a few vaccinations. I had most of the vaccinations already because I had done extensive traveling in South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right, going to Buenos Aires."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I traveled extensively around there. So I had a lot of the vaccines. So I really only a handful that I didn't have. You know, I had to have my physical and everything. But I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on your own for that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.329158327415527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, yes. I had to have a few vaccinations. I had most of the vaccinations already because I had done extensive traveling in South America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's right, going to Buenos Aires."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I traveled extensively around there. So I had a lot of the vaccines. So I really only a handful that I didn't have. You know, I had to have my physical and everything. But I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on your own for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to find your own doctor and get all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6990648082394744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then I traveled extensively around there. So I had a lot of the vaccines. So I really only a handful that I didn't have. You know, I had to have my physical and everything. But I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were on your own for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to find your own doctor and get all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was part of the university health care system, so I was a student, so I could just do that pretty easily on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Good, good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.110072009154972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to find your own doctor and get all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was part of the university health care system, so I was a student, so I could just do that pretty easily on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't that difficult. It just takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very different from in the 1960s."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.566746676838857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But I was part of the university health care system, so I was a student, so I could just do that pretty easily on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't that difficult. It just takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very different from in the 1960s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All that happened during training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.074162974265397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So it wasn't that difficult. It just takes a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very different from in the 1960s."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All that happened during training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't have to do that on our own. So off you go. And where did you first meet your fellow trainees, was it in Washington or did you all meet as a group? Where did you meet as a group for the first time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4157366380726626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All that happened during training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't have to do that on our own. So off you go. And where did you first meet your fellow trainees, was it in Washington or did you all meet as a group? Where did you meet as a group for the first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met in Philadelphia for the first time. So I took my flight from Madison and I went to Philadelphia. We had a one day orientation there with a lady whose name escapes me now, but she was wonderful and she was also a returned Peace Corps volunteer from Lesotho. Worked with the Peace Corps staff and did this really wonderful orientation. And we met everyone and we did all of those awkward get to know you games."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people, how many trainees were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7952629311918473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my goodness."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't have to do that on our own. So off you go. And where did you first meet your fellow trainees, was it in Washington or did you all meet as a group? Where did you meet as a group for the first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We met in Philadelphia for the first time. So I took my flight from Madison and I went to Philadelphia. We had a one day orientation there with a lady whose name escapes me now, but she was wonderful and she was also a returned Peace Corps volunteer from Lesotho. Worked with the Peace Corps staff and did this really wonderful orientation. And we met everyone and we did all of those awkward get to know you games."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many people, how many trainees were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were about 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a nice small group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.685509791594873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were about 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a nice small group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn Lesotho, at any given time, there's between maybe 90 and 100 volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country, at least that's when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In training, um, was there a mixture of men and women?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.20612199066097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn Lesotho, at any given time, there's between maybe 90 and 100 volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country, at least that's when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In training, um, was there a mixture of men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Single people? Were there any married couples?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7845799896233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In country, at least that's when I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In training, um, was there a mixture of men and women?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Single people? Were there any married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one married couple who ended up being placed very close to me, actually. And they're wonderful people and became good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, good, good, good. So one day. It sounds like you had a very positive experience that one day. I'm really glad that it was somebody who was a woman and who had been in Lesotho to welcome."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.427311099581444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Single people? Were there any married couples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one married couple who ended up being placed very close to me, actually. And they're wonderful people and became good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, good, good, good. So one day. It sounds like you had a very positive experience that one day. I'm really glad that it was somebody who was a woman and who had been in Lesotho to welcome."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To welcome you. That would have really eased a lot of anxiety."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.141456777312715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was one married couple who ended up being placed very close to me, actually. And they're wonderful people and became good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, good, good, good. So one day. It sounds like you had a very positive experience that one day. I'm really glad that it was somebody who was a woman and who had been in Lesotho to welcome."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To welcome you. That would have really eased a lot of anxiety."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Until that we got on the bus to go to the airport and then she said, okay, we wish you all a great journey. And you could tell everyone kind of popped their heads up thinking, wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, you're not coming with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.582045404089772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Until that we got on the bus to go to the airport and then she said, okay, we wish you all a great journey. And you could tell everyone kind of popped their heads up thinking, wait."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, you're not coming with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is obvious. But at 2:00 in the morning, you don't really think those things through. But and it's just to say it was a great orientation because we really, I felt connected to her at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I felt like, oh, guide me, take me on the plane with you, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I really do think it's sort of remarkable that you're sent off without an escort all the way to Lesotho. So where, did you fly out of Philadelphia or New York?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.313383782321969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is obvious. But at 2:00 in the morning, you don't really think those things through. But and it's just to say it was a great orientation because we really, I felt connected to her at the end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I felt like, oh, guide me, take me on the plane with you, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I really do think it's sort of remarkable that you're sent off without an escort all the way to Lesotho. So where, did you fly out of Philadelphia or New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we flew. We took a bus to New York. Now I remember. We took a bus to New York and then flew out of JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. Did you make stops along the way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.794300965829591, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, we flew. We took a bus to New York. Now I remember. We took a bus to New York and then flew out of JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. Did you make stops along the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There is a flight from JFK to Johannesburg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I suppose we did. We stopped in Johannesburg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Johannesburg. But that's practically Lesotho."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.660334406477324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. There is a flight from JFK to Johannesburg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I suppose we did. We stopped in Johannesburg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Johannesburg. But that's practically Lesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, I think, one of the longest flights that you can have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.622593784974804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I suppose we did. We stopped in Johannesburg."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Johannesburg. But that's practically Lesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, I think, one of the longest flights that you can have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, it's a very long flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.358437538860892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, I think, one of the longest flights that you can have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, it's a very long flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was 15 hours or 16. And then in Johannesburg, I mean, you have to stop. There's no direct flight to Maseru. Maseru's the capital of Lesotho. So we stopped in Johannesburg. Had a few hours before we got on a tiny little plane to Maseru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're exhausted already."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.176041709845435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's, it's a very long flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many hours, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was 15 hours or 16. And then in Johannesburg, I mean, you have to stop. There's no direct flight to Maseru. Maseru's the capital of Lesotho. So we stopped in Johannesburg. Had a few hours before we got on a tiny little plane to Maseru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're exhausted already."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because how can you sleep on a plane when you're so excited?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.08449078871715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was 15 hours or 16. And then in Johannesburg, I mean, you have to stop. There's no direct flight to Maseru. Maseru's the capital of Lesotho. So we stopped in Johannesburg. Had a few hours before we got on a tiny little plane to Maseru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you're exhausted already."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because how can you sleep on a plane when you're so excited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a couple of hours then you get on a small plane, the 30 of you with no escort. So you've had to negotiate your way through the airport in Johannesburg."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.093878654130167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because how can you sleep on a plane when you're so excited?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a couple of hours then you get on a small plane, the 30 of you with no escort. So you've had to negotiate your way through the airport in Johannesburg."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what was that like in Johannesburg at the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.104309615700185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So a couple of hours then you get on a small plane, the 30 of you with no escort. So you've had to negotiate your way through the airport in Johannesburg."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, what was that like in Johannesburg at the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really astounding because it really was just stereotypical Africa in your face when you arrive at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, even in the airport?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.659641500864424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really astounding because it really was just stereotypical Africa in your face when you arrive at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really, even in the airport?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, you know, um, South Africa had the, I think it was 2010 World Cup there. And so as far as I know, to my knowledge, the airport had a makeover done to really cater to all of the people that were coming to see the World Cup. And so it really, um, is just, you know, trying to make you feel like you're, you're just stepping into the bush almost. Like the culture and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. People in traditional outfits, you know, from South Africa are walking around. There's giant wooden giraffes. There's a beaded sculpture of Nelson Mandela standing there. I mean, all sorts of things which, you know, we don't see that at the airport in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. So they really wanted to impress you that you know right away you are in Africa."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.510712778738249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, you know, um, South Africa had the, I think it was 2010 World Cup there. And so as far as I know, to my knowledge, the airport had a makeover done to really cater to all of the people that were coming to see the World Cup. And so it really, um, is just, you know, trying to make you feel like you're, you're just stepping into the bush almost. Like the culture and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. People in traditional outfits, you know, from South Africa are walking around. There's giant wooden giraffes. There's a beaded sculpture of Nelson Mandela standing there. I mean, all sorts of things which, you know, we don't see that at the airport in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. So they really wanted to impress you that you know right away you are in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah. That's how I felt, you know, at least. And of course we're all overwhelmed anyways, so it really was like, we're here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you pile on to the small little plane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.456347531931387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. People in traditional outfits, you know, from South Africa are walking around. There's giant wooden giraffes. There's a beaded sculpture of Nelson Mandela standing there. I mean, all sorts of things which, you know, we don't see that at the airport in Washington, D.C."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, no. So they really wanted to impress you that you know right away you are in Africa."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah. That's how I felt, you know, at least. And of course we're all overwhelmed anyways, so it really was like, we're here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you pile on to the small little plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many hours of a flight was that one from Johannesburg into Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.284830591034874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah. That's how I felt, you know, at least. And of course we're all overwhelmed anyways, so it really was like, we're here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you pile on to the small little plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many hours of a flight was that one from Johannesburg into Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very short, I want to say it's about an hour or maybe 40 minutes. Maybe even 30 minutes. It's a very short plane ride"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe this is the time to talk about exactly where Lesotho is geographically."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.205367323372082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how many hours of a flight was that one from Johannesburg into Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very short, I want to say it's about an hour or maybe 40 minutes. Maybe even 30 minutes. It's a very short plane ride"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe this is the time to talk about exactly where Lesotho is geographically."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In case whoever is listening to this isn't quite sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.524260514208322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Other country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it is not a part of South Africa. So the language in Lesotho is Sesotho. And there are parts of South Africa that speak Sesotho or Sotho. And they have definitely, you know, a history that intermingles. However, the reason primarily that Lesotho has remained a sovereign nation is because it's located in the middle of the Drakensberg Mountains and the Maloti Mountains. So it is very high up. You know, it's one of the only countries in Africa where it snows on a continual, I mean, on a consistent basis annually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has the four seasons. It has a very cold winter. I mean, it's the mountains. So there is snow, I mean, every year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were packing, you had to pack for both summer and winter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9158450157870246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it is not a part of South Africa. So the language in Lesotho is Sesotho. And there are parts of South Africa that speak Sesotho or Sotho. And they have definitely, you know, a history that intermingles. However, the reason primarily that Lesotho has remained a sovereign nation is because it's located in the middle of the Drakensberg Mountains and the Maloti Mountains. So it is very high up. You know, it's one of the only countries in Africa where it snows on a continual, I mean, on a consistent basis annually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has the four seasons. It has a very cold winter. I mean, it's the mountains. So there is snow, I mean, every year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were packing, you had to pack for both summer and winter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. You know, we definitely. And then also knowing that it's the mountains. So you really have, I mean, your hiking boots and all that and, yep, the four seasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a lot to cram into, what did you get, 40 pounds or 50 pounds?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.350938906430027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It has the four seasons. It has a very cold winter. I mean, it's the mountains. So there is snow, I mean, every year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were packing, you had to pack for both summer and winter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. You know, we definitely. And then also knowing that it's the mountains. So you really have, I mean, your hiking boots and all that and, yep, the four seasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a lot to cram into, what did you get, 40 pounds or 50 pounds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so you fly into the capital city, which is Maseru. And how do you get off the plane? This is a small plane. Do you walk down a little ladder sort of onto the tarmac?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.83437656270003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. You know, we definitely. And then also knowing that it's the mountains. So you really have, I mean, your hiking boots and all that and, yep, the four seasons."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a lot to cram into, what did you get, 40 pounds or 50 pounds?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so you fly into the capital city, which is Maseru. And how do you get off the plane? This is a small plane. Do you walk down a little ladder sort of onto the tarmac?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Just like in the movies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3715295141111445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, so you fly into the capital city, which is Maseru. And how do you get off the plane? This is a small plane. Do you walk down a little ladder sort of onto the tarmac?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Just like in the movies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we just walked to the airport from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, right. There's no big jetway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.96836612679016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Just like in the movies."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we just walked to the airport from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, right. There's no big jetway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As soon as you open the door and step out, now unlike in Johannesburg, you are really in Africa. You're breathing African air. What was the temperature? What time of year was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.520406807544623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we just walked to the airport from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From there, right. There's no big jetway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As soon as you open the door and step out, now unlike in Johannesburg, you are really in Africa. You're breathing African air. What was the temperature? What time of year was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the spring when we arrived, because I arrived in October and the seasons are inverted there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, because we're south of the Equator."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9115631194940246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As soon as you open the door and step out, now unlike in Johannesburg, you are really in Africa. You're breathing African air. What was the temperature? What time of year was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the spring when we arrived, because I arrived in October and the seasons are inverted there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, because we're south of the Equator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So it was just starting springtime there. Uh, I can't remember if it was particularly, I mean, I think it was just moderate temperature, you know. And then Maseru is also located in the lowlands. You know, there's half of the country is considered in the lowlands, although it's still quite high compared to sea level and all of that. It's, it's called the lowlands. And then the other half of the country is really, really high up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the elevation is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2350701327711384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the spring when we arrived, because I arrived in October and the seasons are inverted there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, because we're south of the Equator."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So it was just starting springtime there. Uh, I can't remember if it was particularly, I mean, I think it was just moderate temperature, you know. And then Maseru is also located in the lowlands. You know, there's half of the country is considered in the lowlands, although it's still quite high compared to sea level and all of that. It's, it's called the lowlands. And then the other half of the country is really, really high up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the elevation is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been told that Maseru is the elevation of Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so about 5,000. Uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.594522369745709, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So it was just starting springtime there. Uh, I can't remember if it was particularly, I mean, I think it was just moderate temperature, you know. And then Maseru is also located in the lowlands. You know, there's half of the country is considered in the lowlands, although it's still quite high compared to sea level and all of that. It's, it's called the lowlands. And then the other half of the country is really, really high up in the mountains."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know what the elevation is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been told that Maseru is the elevation of Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so about 5,000. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything else is higher than that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.882802633050788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have been told that Maseru is the elevation of Denver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so about 5,000. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything else is higher than that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything else is higher than that. So that's the lowest point or one of the lowest points in the country. Lesotho is the size of Maryland. I can't remember how big that is, but it's very, it's very small. However, because it's so mountainous, it's still, it can take a very long time to go from one place to another place. I mean, that the size is no indication of how far it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I want to talk more about getting around in Lesotho in a minute. So you're not hit by a blast of tropical heat when you get off the airport, or get off the airplane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2031140367230977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And everything else is higher than that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everything else is higher than that. So that's the lowest point or one of the lowest points in the country. Lesotho is the size of Maryland. I can't remember how big that is, but it's very, it's very small. However, because it's so mountainous, it's still, it can take a very long time to go from one place to another place. I mean, that the size is no indication of how far it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I want to talk more about getting around in Lesotho in a minute. So you're not hit by a blast of tropical heat when you get off the airport, or get off the airplane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, there were some staff members at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They greeted you right there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.954461773732219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, there were some staff members at the airport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They greeted you right there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a few Peace Corps volunteers who were there currently with little signs saying welcome to Lesotho and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make you feel good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.393846415258021, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a few Peace Corps volunteers who were there currently with little signs saying welcome to Lesotho and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make you feel good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. And then we piled into those white vans with the Peace Corps logo on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to move through customs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.770940461397801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a few Peace Corps volunteers who were there currently with little signs saying welcome to Lesotho and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would make you feel good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. And then we piled into those white vans with the Peace Corps logo on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to move through customs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Customs was not very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so it didn't take forever."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.078822734886445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It did. And then we piled into those white vans with the Peace Corps logo on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to move through customs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Customs was not very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so it didn't take forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Maseru is a very, very small airport. I think, I mean, there's maybe one or two flights a day, and I'm pretty sure they just go to Johannesburg. There's, there's nowhere else it goes I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get into these little vans, all 30 of you? Or there were a couple of vans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.420914149873828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Customs was not very intense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so it didn't take forever."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Maseru is a very, very small airport. I think, I mean, there's maybe one or two flights a day, and I'm pretty sure they just go to Johannesburg. There's, there's nowhere else it goes I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get into these little vans, all 30 of you? Or there were a couple of vans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a couple of vans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you go to where?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6899046109709195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Maseru is a very, very small airport. I think, I mean, there's maybe one or two flights a day, and I'm pretty sure they just go to Johannesburg. There's, there's nowhere else it goes I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you get into these little vans, all 30 of you? Or there were a couple of vans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a couple of vans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you go to where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went directly to our training villages. We had three training villages and one of them was called Makola. It was a bigger village, and I think most volunteers were placed in Makola. And then there were two other villages right outside of Makola that were smaller, and they had just a handful of volunteers each there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they split you up or were you all going to be doing the same kinds of jobs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8776717899676885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a couple of vans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And off you go to where?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went directly to our training villages. We had three training villages and one of them was called Makola. It was a bigger village, and I think most volunteers were placed in Makola. And then there were two other villages right outside of Makola that were smaller, and they had just a handful of volunteers each there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they split you up or were you all going to be doing the same kinds of jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lesotho has, it had really at that point two types of jobs. There were, there was education and there was health. And so my group, we were all education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0863019888529872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went directly to our training villages. We had three training villages and one of them was called Makola. It was a bigger village, and I think most volunteers were placed in Makola. And then there were two other villages right outside of Makola that were smaller, and they had just a handful of volunteers each there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they split you up or were you all going to be doing the same kinds of jobs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lesotho has, it had really at that point two types of jobs. There were, there was education and there was health. And so my group, we were all education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within education, you can do either primary English or high school math. So we were separated into those groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So the math teachers would be in maybe a different training village from the English teachers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3181133209477633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lesotho has, it had really at that point two types of jobs. There were, there was education and there was health. And so my group, we were all education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were? Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within education, you can do either primary English or high school math. So we were separated into those groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So the math teachers would be in maybe a different training village from the English teachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was high school science and math, now that I can remember. I mean, there was an emphasis on math because of standardized testing and all of that. But, you know, definitely there were science teachers there, of course, as well. And I believe most people there were science and math teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? A smaller number of English teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.575681467719737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And within education, you can do either primary English or high school math. So we were separated into those groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So the math teachers would be in maybe a different training village from the English teachers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was high school science and math, now that I can remember. I mean, there was an emphasis on math because of standardized testing and all of that. But, you know, definitely there were science teachers there, of course, as well. And I believe most people there were science and math teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? A smaller number of English teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were maybe six or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So then, so there you are. You're in a training village. Where are you living during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7507571863552633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. It was high school science and math, now that I can remember. I mean, there was an emphasis on math because of standardized testing and all of that. But, you know, definitely there were science teachers there, of course, as well. And I believe most people there were science and math teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? A smaller number of English teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were maybe six or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So then, so there you are. You're in a training village. Where are you living during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with the chief of Makola, who was a woman, and they were the Tumo family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The chief was a woman?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9452857626169593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were maybe six or seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So then, so there you are. You're in a training village. Where are you living during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with the chief of Makola, who was a woman, and they were the Tumo family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The chief was a woman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this typical in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.161428625129955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived with the chief of Makola, who was a woman, and they were the Tumo family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The chief was a woman?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this typical in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not. Um. It. I asked her about this once I got to know the family very, pretty well, which I, I loved my host family. They were so good to me. And throughout my Peace Corps service, I came back and visited them and kept in touch with them because they really, really were just very, very good to me. Um. With her family, her, as far as I know, what she explained to me, was that her husband in his family, they were the family with the chiefs. And as is part of the culture in Lesotho, and really just the dire economic situation, a lot of the men leave Lesotho to go work in the diamond mines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In South Africa?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.401587361255505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is this typical in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not. Um. It. I asked her about this once I got to know the family very, pretty well, which I, I loved my host family. They were so good to me. And throughout my Peace Corps service, I came back and visited them and kept in touch with them because they really, really were just very, very good to me. Um. With her family, her, as far as I know, what she explained to me, was that her husband in his family, they were the family with the chiefs. And as is part of the culture in Lesotho, and really just the dire economic situation, a lot of the men leave Lesotho to go work in the diamond mines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In South Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that leaves women to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.6684304013950055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it's not. Um. It. I asked her about this once I got to know the family very, pretty well, which I, I loved my host family. They were so good to me. And throughout my Peace Corps service, I came back and visited them and kept in touch with them because they really, really were just very, very good to me. Um. With her family, her, as far as I know, what she explained to me, was that her husband in his family, they were the family with the chiefs. And as is part of the culture in Lesotho, and really just the dire economic situation, a lot of the men leave Lesotho to go work in the diamond mines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In South Africa?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In South Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that leaves women to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be the decision makers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0597906190061797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Be the decision makers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So my host father had spent many, many, many years working in the diamond mines in South Africa to provide for his family. And I don't know if it was when he was going to leave or one of the times at the beginning when he had come back. But they had, he and his wife had a discussion about, well, who's going to run the village? And, you know, he said to her, you would be very good at this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you should run it because of her temperament and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an extraordinary man."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2886562433401996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So my host father had spent many, many, many years working in the diamond mines in South Africa to provide for his family. And I don't know if it was when he was going to leave or one of the times at the beginning when he had come back. But they had, he and his wife had a discussion about, well, who's going to run the village? And, you know, he said to her, you would be very good at this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you should run it because of her temperament and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an extraordinary man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And, uh. And she was, she is very good at it. She's still the chief, as far as I know. And yep, she was just a wonderful, really good, caring person. Good person to be chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you in her, you're living with her family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5429513814891105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think you should run it because of her temperament and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an extraordinary man."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And, uh. And she was, she is very good at it. She's still the chief, as far as I know. And yep, she was just a wonderful, really good, caring person. Good person to be chief."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you in her, you're living with her family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a room of your own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.139446149986556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a room of your own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a little room that was separate from their house. It was just a separate little brick house on their compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there other separate little houses on the compound?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.488273499985062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a little room that was separate from their house. It was just a separate little brick house on their compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there other separate little houses on the compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two buildings, the main one and your little house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8758594444278467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had a little room that was separate from their house. It was just a separate little brick house on their compound."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Were there other separate little houses on the compound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think that was, that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Two buildings, the main one and your little house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other people your age, were there children?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.672853900972179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was, um. So there was my host mother who was pretty elderly at that point. I don't know how old she was exactly, but she was up there. And one of her daughters lived with her. Her daughter had been married and then her husband passed away and she had moved back in with her family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was living there. And then, I don't believe it's her daughter, but she called her her daughter. But it was from another, it was the granddaughter of my host mother. Lesotho families, just like in many countries I think, are pretty ambiguous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You hear, you know, that this person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My cousin and my brother."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.4099504814433175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. This is my daughter. This is my cousin. But you don't really know the bloodline."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But honestly, it doesn't really matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was there, and then there was a grandson that was also there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how old were these?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7888338682703524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But honestly, it doesn't really matter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doesn't matter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was there, and then there was a grandson that was also there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how old were these?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The grandson was I think maybe seven. I forget his name now. But the granddaughter was 11. And the daughter who had moved back in with them was, I'm not sure, maybe in her thirties. She looked like she was in her thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the language in that house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2098154091892805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was there, and then there was a grandson that was also there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how old were these?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The grandson was I think maybe seven. I forget his name now. But the granddaughter was 11. And the daughter who had moved back in with them was, I'm not sure, maybe in her thirties. She looked like she was in her thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the language in that house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Sesotho and English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you had not, you went straight into this family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.677572676876978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. The grandson was I think maybe seven. I forget his name now. But the granddaughter was 11. And the daughter who had moved back in with them was, I'm not sure, maybe in her thirties. She looked like she was in her thirties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was the language in that house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Sesotho and English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you had not, you went straight into this family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had no training in Sesotho at all when you first got there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.197302974307753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Sesotho and English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you had not, you went straight into this family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had no training in Sesotho at all when you first got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. But they did speak some English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.77478108256417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had no training in Sesotho at all when you first got there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. But they did speak some English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They were well educated, this family. My host mother, the chief, spoke English and her daughter also spoke English very well. So it was, was nice to arrive and be able to communicate with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Right. Right. So that and, um, your host mother did all the cooking for you, right? You ate with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.194201202849078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Whew. But they did speak some English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They were well educated, this family. My host mother, the chief, spoke English and her daughter also spoke English very well. So it was, was nice to arrive and be able to communicate with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Right. Right. So that and, um, your host mother did all the cooking for you, right? You ate with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would eat with them per Peace Corps rules. I think if I remember correctly, the first month they were supposed to provide you with all of the meals. And then the second month of training, you could start making your own meals and shopping for yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, in your tiny little house, you had a kitchen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6602235587211975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They were well educated, this family. My host mother, the chief, spoke English and her daughter also spoke English very well. So it was, was nice to arrive and be able to communicate with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Right. Right. So that and, um, your host mother did all the cooking for you, right? You ate with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would eat with them per Peace Corps rules. I think if I remember correctly, the first month they were supposed to provide you with all of the meals. And then the second month of training, you could start making your own meals and shopping for yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, in your tiny little house, you had a kitchen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I had, I had a little gas stove. Right. That I could start making my own meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. I could see how that might be good training. But we'll talk about that later, about how, to what extent you had to take care of your own food. Um. And then during the day in training, you would gather with other Peace Corps volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.1780261763568864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would eat with them per Peace Corps rules. I think if I remember correctly, the first month they were supposed to provide you with all of the meals. And then the second month of training, you could start making your own meals and shopping for yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had, in your tiny little house, you had a kitchen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I had, I had a little gas stove. Right. That I could start making my own meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. I could see how that might be good training. But we'll talk about that later, about how, to what extent you had to take care of your own food. Um. And then during the day in training, you would gather with other Peace Corps volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Makola. The, what did you say, six or seven of you were in Makola together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.158057007848007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Makola. The, what did you say, six or seven of you were in Makola together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Makola had the largest group. I think we were maybe 15 actually. And then the other villages were the smaller groups. So, yep. Every morning we would meet at the church in Makola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. They had a church building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of church?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.50895223094223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Makola had the largest group. I think we were maybe 15 actually. And then the other villages were the smaller groups. So, yep. Every morning we would meet at the church in Makola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. They had a church building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was pretty large. Uh, I forget. It was a Christian, Christian church. I don't remember what sector of Christianity. I forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It, was it like a meeting room, a big meeting room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.787724701046922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. They had a church building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of church?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was pretty large. Uh, I forget. It was a Christian, Christian church. I don't remember what sector of Christianity. I forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It, was it like a meeting room, a big meeting room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a big space with windows and everything, with chairs. So, uh, you know, the village let us have it. They, of course, used it on Sunday, but the rest of the time, we could go there and have our, our Peace Corps sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about the sessions."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0974718900521356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was pretty large. Uh, I forget. It was a Christian, Christian church. I don't remember what sector of Christianity. I forget."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It, was it like a meeting room, a big meeting room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a big space with windows and everything, with chairs. So, uh, you know, the village let us have it. They, of course, used it on Sunday, but the rest of the time, we could go there and have our, our Peace Corps sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about the sessions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What went on? What were they doing with you during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4416354333912618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just a big space with windows and everything, with chairs. So, uh, you know, the village let us have it. They, of course, used it on Sunday, but the rest of the time, we could go there and have our, our Peace Corps sessions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's talk about the sessions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What went on? What were they doing with you during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was a full day every day. We had language in the morning and we had wonderful language teachers who were just so funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were native speakers of Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8240393704347353, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What went on? What were they doing with you during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was a full day every day. We had language in the morning and we had wonderful language teachers who were just so funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were native speakers of Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Native speakers of Sesotho, primarily women who were also hosted in the villages like us. So these are ladies who lived, I believe most of them lived in villages around the capital. But when they sign on to be a Peace Corps instructor for language, they are also housed in the villages like us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they might be leaving behind their own family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.248932633816373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, it was a full day every day. We had language in the morning and we had wonderful language teachers who were just so funny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were native speakers of Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Native speakers of Sesotho, primarily women who were also hosted in the villages like us. So these are ladies who lived, I believe most of them lived in villages around the capital. But when they sign on to be a Peace Corps instructor for language, they are also housed in the villages like us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they might be leaving behind their own family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are leaving behind their families. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this went on, this was, the training session lasted how long? Two months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.498814037573747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Native speakers of Sesotho, primarily women who were also hosted in the villages like us. So these are ladies who lived, I believe most of them lived in villages around the capital. But when they sign on to be a Peace Corps instructor for language, they are also housed in the villages like us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they might be leaving behind their own family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are leaving behind their families. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this went on, this was, the training session lasted how long? Two months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was two or three months. Maybe two and a half months. Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that like, learning Sesotho? You'd already, you were already fluent in three languages. Sesotho now is language number four."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.776460041748608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They are leaving behind their families. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this went on, this was, the training session lasted how long? Two months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was two or three months. Maybe two and a half months. Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that like, learning Sesotho? You'd already, you were already fluent in three languages. Sesotho now is language number four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they teach it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0849556019428976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was two or three months. Maybe two and a half months. Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that like, learning Sesotho? You'd already, you were already fluent in three languages. Sesotho now is language number four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they teach it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they just. Well, you were randomly pretty much put in these little classes. They really focused on small class sizes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How small is small?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.808587162892466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, they just. Well, you were randomly pretty much put in these little classes. They really focused on small class sizes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How small is small?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Small is maybe four people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So they would split us up into groups. And you were put into just a small group randomly with four other volunteers and one instructor. And they would go through vocab and just try to talk to you about, okay, what did you have for breakfast? What is your house like? Family, you know, and then go through all the words. Really just starting with words, basic communication of how does that work. Then as you progressed, then they would really talk about, okay, grammar and sentence structure and how does that work, all of that. And as you increased your Sesotho capability, at whatever speed that was, they started to rearrange you into, okay, you know, you are learning this pretty quickly. We're going to move you into a class that is people that speak quickly, like with other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Move along a little faster."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.231763514324962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Small is maybe four people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So they would split us up into groups. And you were put into just a small group randomly with four other volunteers and one instructor. And they would go through vocab and just try to talk to you about, okay, what did you have for breakfast? What is your house like? Family, you know, and then go through all the words. Really just starting with words, basic communication of how does that work. Then as you progressed, then they would really talk about, okay, grammar and sentence structure and how does that work, all of that. And as you increased your Sesotho capability, at whatever speed that was, they started to rearrange you into, okay, you know, you are learning this pretty quickly. We're going to move you into a class that is people that speak quickly, like with other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Move along a little faster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, people that move along a little bit faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.701959460361069, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So they would split us up into groups. And you were put into just a small group randomly with four other volunteers and one instructor. And they would go through vocab and just try to talk to you about, okay, what did you have for breakfast? What is your house like? Family, you know, and then go through all the words. Really just starting with words, basic communication of how does that work. Then as you progressed, then they would really talk about, okay, grammar and sentence structure and how does that work, all of that. And as you increased your Sesotho capability, at whatever speed that was, they started to rearrange you into, okay, you know, you are learning this pretty quickly. We're going to move you into a class that is people that speak quickly, like with other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Move along a little faster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, people that move along a little bit faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were rearranged a few times with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm assuming you'd be in the fastest moving group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.113288289290076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, people that move along a little bit faster."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were rearranged a few times with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm assuming you'd be in the fastest moving group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not in the fastest moving group, actually. I was in a moderate group. Sesotho, I felt like it was challenging, you know, because I had had a lot of language experience. However, it was languages that have a strong foundation in Romance languages, you know. Spanish for me was not very challenging because I knew French already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French, right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.570320321433417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we were rearranged a few times with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm assuming you'd be in the fastest moving group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not in the fastest moving group, actually. I was in a moderate group. Sesotho, I felt like it was challenging, you know, because I had had a lot of language experience. However, it was languages that have a strong foundation in Romance languages, you know. Spanish for me was not very challenging because I knew French already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "French, right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And why did I know French? Because I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's the language of your home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.642370767201749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And why did I know French? Because I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's the language of your home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's the language of my house. So, um, in my language experiences, I always had that foundation and suddenly I did not have that foundation anymore at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, I mean, I did all right in Sesotho. I was in an intermediate group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they teaching, does Sesotho have an orthography? Is it a written language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3900833569296966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a written language. I think the base language is called Sotho. I mean, it's part of the Sotho people who lived in the area. And it's a, it's a vast area because I know that parts of South Africa also speak it. And in Botswana, Botswana speaks Setswana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Setswana, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is almost exactly like Sesotho. When I traveled, I went to Botswana and I suddenly was looking around saying, hey, I know what you're saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I had no idea. But so the language is spoken in different parts too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when they were teaching it, did they use written materials as well as oral?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5445370632552184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is almost exactly like Sesotho. When I traveled, I went to Botswana and I suddenly was looking around saying, hey, I know what you're saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I had no idea. But so the language is spoken in different parts too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when they were teaching it, did they use written materials as well as oral?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a manual that Peace Corps had put together and the language instructors had put together over the years. And they used that language manual. There was, they gave us little dictionaries. There were a few, a few things like that. And our Peace Corps instructors would give us, you know, like vocab lists and things like that. But it was limited, you know. I mean, Sesotho is a written language, but there aren't very many libraries in the country. So it was limited resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your training in the language was oral."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9068358805619978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a manual that Peace Corps had put together and the language instructors had put together over the years. And they used that language manual. There was, they gave us little dictionaries. There were a few, a few things like that. And our Peace Corps instructors would give us, you know, like vocab lists and things like that. But it was limited, you know. I mean, Sesotho is a written language, but there aren't very many libraries in the country. So it was limited resources."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So most of your training in the language was oral."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And us taking our own notes from what the teacher was writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Right, right. Yeah. And, and did you find that that language training was adequate? Did you learn enough to be able to function?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3541183710641946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And us taking our own notes from what the teacher was writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Right, right. Yeah. And, and did you find that that language training was adequate? Did you learn enough to be able to function?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. Yep. You know, at the end of Peace Corps language sessions, and really at the end of your orientation, you have to take a test to see if you can actually be in the community on your own and you speak enough of the language that you can function by yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did well enough. I passed. I think most people passed. And so, yeah, it was all right. Um. I mean, there were some of my friends that became very, very good in Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a tonal language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.615687078960216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, yeah. Yep. You know, at the end of Peace Corps language sessions, and really at the end of your orientation, you have to take a test to see if you can actually be in the community on your own and you speak enough of the language that you can function by yourself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did well enough. I passed. I think most people passed. And so, yeah, it was all right. Um. I mean, there were some of my friends that became very, very good in Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a tonal language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, does the tone of it determine the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.906318976622462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I did well enough. I passed. I think most people passed. And so, yeah, it was all right. Um. I mean, there were some of my friends that became very, very good in Sesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it a tonal language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, does the tone of it determine the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The meaning of the word?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.229243307358291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like, does the tone of it determine the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The meaning of the word?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't think so, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay. So it's possible."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9867201325411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I don't think so, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Okay. So it's possible."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's possible. But as far as I know, I mean, I don't remember having any experiences like that where I was saying something differently because of my tone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "West African languages are tonal and that's."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.429689036156778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it's possible. But as far as I know, I mean, I don't remember having any experiences like that where I was saying something differently because of my tone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "West African languages are tonal and that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one more layer of difficulty."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.921876706840864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was possible."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "West African languages are tonal and that's."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one more layer of difficulty."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so training was heavily, had a heavy emphasis on language training, and what else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.841823094865264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so training was heavily, had a heavy emphasis on language training, and what else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were Peace Corps led sessions about safety. You know, that was a big, big part of it. Lesotho in 2010 had a volunteer that was killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was very, um. Very, uh, I mean, horrible, of course, you know, and very challenging to the program because it was basically an accident. I mean, it was not an."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't a deliberate murder?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.63188036403119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So that was very, um. Very, uh, I mean, horrible, of course, you know, and very challenging to the program because it was basically an accident. I mean, it was not an."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't a deliberate murder?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a murder, but it was not, um. You know, because you are Peace Corps or you are American or this, this person was not, I believe, pursuing this individual in particular. He was just happened to be at the wrong place. And, you know, I can't, I can't speak much else to the, to that because I wasn't there and I didn't know what happened. But what happened once that became known was that Peace Corps in Washington, I mean, really wanted to close the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they felt like, well, this is unacceptable. You know, obviously it's not safe. And, you know, this volunteer was murdered and it was right near the Peace Corps office. So it just, just was bad all around. And so Peace Corps Lesotho made dramatic safety changes that were very strictly enforced to keep the program open. And, uh, we had resources that are available with the embassy. I mean, the embassy really helped us out, the U.S. embassy, to really put these safety measures in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kinds of safety measures?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1381239062113453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they felt like, well, this is unacceptable. You know, obviously it's not safe. And, you know, this volunteer was murdered and it was right near the Peace Corps office. So it just, just was bad all around. And so Peace Corps Lesotho made dramatic safety changes that were very strictly enforced to keep the program open. And, uh, we had resources that are available with the embassy. I mean, the embassy really helped us out, the U.S. embassy, to really put these safety measures in place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kinds of safety measures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we couldn't really go anywhere without telling Peace Corps where we were going at all times. I mean, you had to have direct communication with Peace Corps for everything. I know that before, uh, you could go to South Africa pretty easily and Peace Corps didn't have to know about it if you weren't spending the night there. And so considering that Lesotho is completely surrounded by South Africa, that was a very simple, it's a very simple thing to do. I mean, you just cross the border to go to the grocery store on the other side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not a big deal. It's like crossing a state line, you know? But we could definitely no longer do that. You couldn't be in the capital city at night. You couldn't be in the capital city without telling anyone. A lot of the rules regarded the capital city really as, uh, as the area of most of the safety concerns. You had to be approved to be there at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with the Peace Corps office to let them know your whereabouts or to, if you were in trouble, to, to reach them for asking for help? Did you have a cell phone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.375693229123717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we couldn't really go anywhere without telling Peace Corps where we were going at all times. I mean, you had to have direct communication with Peace Corps for everything. I know that before, uh, you could go to South Africa pretty easily and Peace Corps didn't have to know about it if you weren't spending the night there. And so considering that Lesotho is completely surrounded by South Africa, that was a very simple, it's a very simple thing to do. I mean, you just cross the border to go to the grocery store on the other side."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not a big deal. It's like crossing a state line, you know? But we could definitely no longer do that. You couldn't be in the capital city at night. You couldn't be in the capital city without telling anyone. A lot of the rules regarded the capital city really as, uh, as the area of most of the safety concerns. You had to be approved to be there at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with the Peace Corps office to let them know your whereabouts or to, if you were in trouble, to, to reach them for asking for help? Did you have a cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we all had phones and it was expected that we would keep our phones charged and available so that if anything did happen, we were able to be reached."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they wanted to be able to reach you and you had a way of reaching them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6396591434707966, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's not a big deal. It's like crossing a state line, you know? But we could definitely no longer do that. You couldn't be in the capital city at night. You couldn't be in the capital city without telling anyone. A lot of the rules regarded the capital city really as, uh, as the area of most of the safety concerns. You had to be approved to be there at any time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you communicate with the Peace Corps office to let them know your whereabouts or to, if you were in trouble, to, to reach them for asking for help? Did you have a cell phone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we all had phones and it was expected that we would keep our phones charged and available so that if anything did happen, we were able to be reached."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they wanted to be able to reach you and you had a way of reaching them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Of course, if that didn't work either, there were, there were other ways. There was a radio signal that we had to learn for the radio, in case there was an emergency and we couldn't be reached."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had like a two-way radio?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2588384487293784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Of course, if that didn't work either, there were, there were other ways. There was a radio signal that we had to learn for the radio, in case there was an emergency and we couldn't be reached."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had like a two-way radio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have a radio, but a lot of the families in, the, the host families and the Peace Corps did. So at least your host family, who, you know, many of the families had the radio on all the time, they could be reached and they could inform you about anything that's happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways, that was really the tone when, when my group had arrived. You know, a lot of our sessions were about how important the safety is and, and following all of the rules, which I completely agree with and understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, with women in Peace Corps today, I know there's a lot of concern about sexual assaults."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6209316096993094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't have a radio, but a lot of the families in, the, the host families and the Peace Corps did. So at least your host family, who, you know, many of the families had the radio on all the time, they could be reached and they could inform you about anything that's happening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways, that was really the tone when, when my group had arrived. You know, a lot of our sessions were about how important the safety is and, and following all of the rules, which I completely agree with and understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, with women in Peace Corps today, I know there's a lot of concern about sexual assaults."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an expectation for a particular dress code? Were you expected, were you told not to wear mini skirts or, I don't know, whatever for your own safety?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.023257344110344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So anyways, that was really the tone when, when my group had arrived. You know, a lot of our sessions were about how important the safety is and, and following all of the rules, which I completely agree with and understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, with women in Peace Corps today, I know there's a lot of concern about sexual assaults."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an expectation for a particular dress code? Were you expected, were you told not to wear mini skirts or, I don't know, whatever for your own safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There, I mean, it was recommended that we really try to be as respectful as we can to the culture and also that we are being seen as teachers really. So being role models and all of that to the community. We were supposed to wear long pants, long skirts, you know, try not to show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say long skirts, ankle length or just below the knee?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.470285937900382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an expectation for a particular dress code? Were you expected, were you told not to wear mini skirts or, I don't know, whatever for your own safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There, I mean, it was recommended that we really try to be as respectful as we can to the culture and also that we are being seen as teachers really. So being role models and all of that to the community. We were supposed to wear long pants, long skirts, you know, try not to show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say long skirts, ankle length or just below the knee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Below the knee. Or even to the knee, that was all right. Nothing very tight. Just making sure that you're being professional at all times. Um. Yes. So no miniskirts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. And so there was a lot of emphasis on your own safety and communication. What else did training include? Was there a talk about the culture of the people in Lesotho, cultural norms?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.966984375444868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There, I mean, it was recommended that we really try to be as respectful as we can to the culture and also that we are being seen as teachers really. So being role models and all of that to the community. We were supposed to wear long pants, long skirts, you know, try not to show."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you say long skirts, ankle length or just below the knee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Below the knee. Or even to the knee, that was all right. Nothing very tight. Just making sure that you're being professional at all times. Um. Yes. So no miniskirts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. And so there was a lot of emphasis on your own safety and communication. What else did training include? Was there a talk about the culture of the people in Lesotho, cultural norms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, lots of culture sessions. Lots of, uh, you know, how to not make any faux pas about the, the community and the culture and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's easier said than done."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.407760417160964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Below the knee. Or even to the knee, that was all right. Nothing very tight. Just making sure that you're being professional at all times. Um. Yes. So no miniskirts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. And so there was a lot of emphasis on your own safety and communication. What else did training include? Was there a talk about the culture of the people in Lesotho, cultural norms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, lots of culture sessions. Lots of, uh, you know, how to not make any faux pas about the, the community and the culture and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's easier said than done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. We would have these little sketches where, you know, we would misunderstand something and how easily something could be misunderstood. So that was always very interesting. I liked those sessions because it was very eye opening. We had a little bit of, oh, we had education about the status of HIV and AIDS in Lesotho. That is very, very important. So a lot of information sessions about that and sessions that provided us with resources for teaching about HIV and AIDS, which is a very big component of Peace Corps volunteers there.\n\nAnd then a session about, uh, resources for being teachers as well. We had people from the Education Department come and talk to us about, you know, how schools are in Lesotho, because that was my main concern. You know, how am I going to teach in Lesotho? I don't know what the school system is like at all"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had not had education courses?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.897511574623294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, lots of culture sessions. Lots of, uh, you know, how to not make any faux pas about the, the community and the culture and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's easier said than done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. We would have these little sketches where, you know, we would misunderstand something and how easily something could be misunderstood. So that was always very interesting. I liked those sessions because it was very eye opening. We had a little bit of, oh, we had education about the status of HIV and AIDS in Lesotho. That is very, very important. So a lot of information sessions about that and sessions that provided us with resources for teaching about HIV and AIDS, which is a very big component of Peace Corps volunteers there.\n\nAnd then a session about, uh, resources for being teachers as well. We had people from the Education Department come and talk to us about, you know, how schools are in Lesotho, because that was my main concern. You know, how am I going to teach in Lesotho? I don't know what the school system is like at all"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had not had education courses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. I had had one education course before, but it wasn't at all about how to teach at all. It was like, you know, theory of education. So that doesn't help me at all in Lesotho. So that was very, very eye opening. And resources for teachers, really. How can we teach our subject? The more we went on through orientation, we got split up into groups to science and math teachers and resources for them. And what is the curriculum like? All of that, and the same thing for primary English teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So I can see how you'd be in different groupings throughout the day. You'd be in one grouping for language instruction, but in a different one for talking about what your teaching life was going to be."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.441679527359215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. We would have these little sketches where, you know, we would misunderstand something and how easily something could be misunderstood. So that was always very interesting. I liked those sessions because it was very eye opening. We had a little bit of, oh, we had education about the status of HIV and AIDS in Lesotho. That is very, very important. So a lot of information sessions about that and sessions that provided us with resources for teaching about HIV and AIDS, which is a very big component of Peace Corps volunteers there.\n\nAnd then a session about, uh, resources for being teachers as well. We had people from the Education Department come and talk to us about, you know, how schools are in Lesotho, because that was my main concern. You know, how am I going to teach in Lesotho? I don't know what the school system is like at all"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had not had education courses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. I had had one education course before, but it wasn't at all about how to teach at all. It was like, you know, theory of education. So that doesn't help me at all in Lesotho. So that was very, very eye opening. And resources for teachers, really. How can we teach our subject? The more we went on through orientation, we got split up into groups to science and math teachers and resources for them. And what is the curriculum like? All of that, and the same thing for primary English teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So I can see how you'd be in different groupings throughout the day. You'd be in one grouping for language instruction, but in a different one for talking about what your teaching life was going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At the end of our orientation, we had a practicum where we worked, when we taught classes in a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right there in Makola?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8240883637324607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had. I had had one education course before, but it wasn't at all about how to teach at all. It was like, you know, theory of education. So that doesn't help me at all in Lesotho. So that was very, very eye opening. And resources for teachers, really. How can we teach our subject? The more we went on through orientation, we got split up into groups to science and math teachers and resources for them. And what is the curriculum like? All of that, and the same thing for primary English teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So I can see how you'd be in different groupings throughout the day. You'd be in one grouping for language instruction, but in a different one for talking about what your teaching life was going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At the end of our orientation, we had a practicum where we worked, when we taught classes in a school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right there in Makola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was in one of the villages outside of Makola, Berea. But anyways, it was the end of the school year and we actually went and did little language classes, I mean, for English, we did little language classes in the primary school there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that like? What, um, how, how, how many kids in a class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.721096745348716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think it was in one of the villages outside of Makola, Berea. But anyways, it was the end of the school year and we actually went and did little language classes, I mean, for English, we did little language classes in the primary school there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that like? What, um, how, how, how many kids in a class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that practicum?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were maybe 30, or 20 to 30 in a class. It wasn't a very big village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were how old?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9123297170541294, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In that practicum?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were maybe 30, or 20 to 30 in a class. It wasn't a very big village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were how old?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In primary school we were teaching, I believe it was fourth grade and fifth grade and sixth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they'd be about the same age as kids in those grades here?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1248107967268104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were maybe 30, or 20 to 30 in a class. It wasn't a very big village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the kids were how old?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In primary school we were teaching, I believe it was fourth grade and fifth grade and sixth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they'd be about the same age as kids in those grades here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine, ten, 11."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:399", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3609008852520112, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In primary school we were teaching, I believe it was fourth grade and fifth grade and sixth grade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they'd be about the same age as kids in those grades here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine, ten, 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Most of them. Some of them, of course, were older and had been kept back because they, they weren't able to master the subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe hadn't had a chance to go to school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5121120947244566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nine, ten, 11."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Most of them. Some of them, of course, were older and had been kept back because they, they weren't able to master the subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe hadn't had a chance to go to school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, I didn't really get to know them that well because it was really only a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just a few days."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6801245496938406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Most of them. Some of them, of course, were older and had been kept back because they, they weren't able to master the subject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or maybe hadn't had a chance to go to school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, I didn't really get to know them that well because it was really only a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just a few days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a few days for practicum. Just to make sure that we could handle ourselves in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was, was there another, another teacher there in the room with you while you were teaching English during your practicum?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8668050552153783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, I didn't really get to know them that well because it was really only a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, just a few days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a few days for practicum. Just to make sure that we could handle ourselves in the classroom."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was, was there another, another teacher there in the room with you while you were teaching English during your practicum?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were other PCVs that would observe you and give you feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.19358648792022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were other PCVs that would observe you and give you feedback."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was one Peace Corps staff member. It was very nice because in our education group, I'm also now remembering that we didn't just have math and science and English. We also had kind of like resource teachers. Some of them helped out in primary, like pre-K area, it was called ECCD. And so they worked with helping ECCD programs, which is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "ECCD?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's like early childhood programs. It's like pre-K, you know, infants and all of that. And then others were retired teachers from the United States who joined Peace Corps and had a lot of experience, obviously. And so they were kind of put in as resource teachers for a school to help them with their program, teaching teachers basically, guiding the school and instruction and all of that. So that was really great because that was an extra resource within our PCV community. I mean, those people, I used their depth of knowledge all the time to my benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. That's great. I'm glad they were there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3262072088002443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then there was one Peace Corps staff member. It was very nice because in our education group, I'm also now remembering that we didn't just have math and science and English. We also had kind of like resource teachers. Some of them helped out in primary, like pre-K area, it was called ECCD. And so they worked with helping ECCD programs, which is like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "ECCD?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's like early childhood programs. It's like pre-K, you know, infants and all of that. And then others were retired teachers from the United States who joined Peace Corps and had a lot of experience, obviously. And so they were kind of put in as resource teachers for a school to help them with their program, teaching teachers basically, guiding the school and instruction and all of that. So that was really great because that was an extra resource within our PCV community. I mean, those people, I used their depth of knowledge all the time to my benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. That's great. I'm glad they were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, and they were able to help me, you know, plan my lessons and everything and be successful in my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So eventually training comes to an end after two or three months. Was there a big swearing in ceremony or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4735635653336048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's like early childhood programs. It's like pre-K, you know, infants and all of that. And then others were retired teachers from the United States who joined Peace Corps and had a lot of experience, obviously. And so they were kind of put in as resource teachers for a school to help them with their program, teaching teachers basically, guiding the school and instruction and all of that. So that was really great because that was an extra resource within our PCV community. I mean, those people, I used their depth of knowledge all the time to my benefit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. That's great. I'm glad they were there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, and they were able to help me, you know, plan my lessons and everything and be successful in my job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So eventually training comes to an end after two or three months. Was there a big swearing in ceremony or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back in Maseru maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0213491979884837, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope, it was still in the village. Again, I think it was in the neighboring village, in Berea, for some reason. But there was a ceremony. The representative for the U.S. embassy came. There was singing and dancing, which is just a big part of the culture in Lesotho. It was, it was just really nice. Lots of speeches. And then we were each read our names, you know, our names were read off and we would come and get our certificate saying that we had completed orientation. We are now officially Peace Corps volunteers. I think we had to take an oath."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a really good time. And then there was a feast, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there's no party without food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about alcohol? Um, is, is it a country in which people consume alcohol?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2459435533205374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a really good time. And then there was a feast, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there's no party without food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about alcohol? Um, is, is it a country in which people consume alcohol?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, uh, primarily men however. It's not. Women are not, it's not respectable for a woman to drink alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even at this party, maybe it would have been dry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.495492837022819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because there's no party without food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What about alcohol? Um, is, is it a country in which people consume alcohol?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, uh, primarily men however. It's not. Women are not, it's not respectable for a woman to drink alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even at this party, maybe it would have been dry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There was no alcohol at the party. Lesotho is primarily Christian, a Christian country. I mean, a very high percentage is a Christian country. And so they have these, you know, traditional Christian values. So the clothing, the church, yeah, no alcohol. It's not necessarily a cultural thing. I don't know, actually, maybe not, but it's kind of these conservative values I believe that we find here too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've finished with training and now instead of living in Makola, you're going to be sent someplace else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.7727698189142433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is, uh, primarily men however. It's not. Women are not, it's not respectable for a woman to drink alcohol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even at this party, maybe it would have been dry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. There was no alcohol at the party. Lesotho is primarily Christian, a Christian country. I mean, a very high percentage is a Christian country. And so they have these, you know, traditional Christian values. So the clothing, the church, yeah, no alcohol. It's not necessarily a cultural thing. I don't know, actually, maybe not, but it's kind of these conservative values I believe that we find here too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you've finished with training and now instead of living in Makola, you're going to be sent someplace else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Where to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1886047147089425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Where to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sent to Tabola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tabola."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tabola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how do you get to Tabola from your training site? Did, did you have to get back into Maseru at any point during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.701981129270299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tabola."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, how do you get to Tabola from your training site? Did, did you have to get back into Maseru at any point during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We took a trip to Maseru with our Sesotho instructors as guides. That was just a fun field trip day to kind of explore the city with, with a guide and see the different, different parts. We also went into Maseru to buy a lot of the things that we needed for our house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps gives you a certain amount of money, you know, towards the end of your orientation to go and actually buy basic things for your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you know what you were going to need? Had you, had you been given a glimpse of your house, the house you were going to be living in for two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0022012547447763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did. We took a trip to Maseru with our Sesotho instructors as guides. That was just a fun field trip day to kind of explore the city with, with a guide and see the different, different parts. We also went into Maseru to buy a lot of the things that we needed for our house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps gives you a certain amount of money, you know, towards the end of your orientation to go and actually buy basic things for your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you know what you were going to need? Had you, had you been given a glimpse of your house, the house you were going to be living in for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Your, first of all, your community provides you with basic things, you know, a bed, a dresser, a stove, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a table and chair?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.224668060827529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Peace Corps gives you a certain amount of money, you know, towards the end of your orientation to go and actually buy basic things for your house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, how did you know what you were going to need? Had you, had you been given a glimpse of your house, the house you were going to be living in for two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Your, first of all, your community provides you with basic things, you know, a bed, a dresser, a stove, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a table and chair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a table and chairs. Yep. Not everyone did though. So at the end of your orientation, you do, you. There are two things. You get to go and live with a volunteer who's, um, you know, doing something similar to what you're doing. So I went with an English volunteer and you get to follow them around and see how their daily life is. And then you also got to go to your actual site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The place where you're going to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3607422898083659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Your, first of all, your community provides you with basic things, you know, a bed, a dresser, a stove, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a table and chair?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a table and chairs. Yep. Not everyone did though. So at the end of your orientation, you do, you. There are two things. You get to go and live with a volunteer who's, um, you know, doing something similar to what you're doing. So I went with an English volunteer and you get to follow them around and see how their daily life is. And then you also got to go to your actual site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The place where you're going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The place where you're going to be. And you go there for I think it was two days to meet your village, all of that, and see where you're going to live. And so for a lot of people, that was a glimpse of like, oh, you know, this is, this is. I need to buy this and this and this and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5119358775648508, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a table and chairs. Yep. Not everyone did though. So at the end of your orientation, you do, you. There are two things. You get to go and live with a volunteer who's, um, you know, doing something similar to what you're doing. So I went with an English volunteer and you get to follow them around and see how their daily life is. And then you also got to go to your actual site."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The place where you're going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The place where you're going to be. And you go there for I think it was two days to meet your village, all of that, and see where you're going to live. And so for a lot of people, that was a glimpse of like, oh, you know, this is, this is. I need to buy this and this and this and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What am I missing? Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you go to Maseru and do some shopping."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6799287528498341, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The place where you're going to be. And you go there for I think it was two days to meet your village, all of that, and see where you're going to live. And so for a lot of people, that was a glimpse of like, oh, you know, this is, this is. I need to buy this and this and this and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What am I missing? Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you go to Maseru and do some shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you do some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you a special allowance for settling in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8665875031664823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What am I missing? Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you go to Maseru and do some shopping."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you do some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you a special allowance for settling in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. Settling in allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Good, good, good, good. And then off you go to Tabola. How did you get to Tabola?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0739861146294247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then you do some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they gave you a special allowance for settling in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. Settling in allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Good, good, good, good. And then off you go to Tabola. How did you get to Tabola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would take a taxi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3044290162549164, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. Settling in allowance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Good, good, good, good. And then off you go to Tabola. How did you get to Tabola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would take a taxi."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A public taxi. Well, no, I'm sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself. What happened was that we were sent to different regions, depending if you were going. If your site was going to be in the north or in the south of Lesotho, you were sent to a conference during training. And this was a conference for you to meet your counterpart, which would be instrumental in your getting to know the community and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So wait, your counterpart is a host country national, somebody. What do you call a person who lives in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.610406192907304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A public taxi. Well, no, I'm sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself. What happened was that we were sent to different regions, depending if you were going. If your site was going to be in the north or in the south of Lesotho, you were sent to a conference during training. And this was a conference for you to meet your counterpart, which would be instrumental in your getting to know the community and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So wait, your counterpart is a host country national, somebody. What do you call a person who lives in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Mosotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mosotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's like one person, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your counterpart would be a Mosotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7893402143414487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Mosotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mosotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's like one person, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your counterpart would be a Mosotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And that person would be a primary school teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9881557937127208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's like one person, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So your counterpart would be a Mosotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And that person would be a primary school teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think that was the idea. Yep. I don't know if everyone's was a teacher. Some of them were the principals of the school. Mine was a, yes, primary school teacher at one of my schools because I had two schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to meet that person during that conference? Were you in the north or the south?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.209061993014134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And that person would be a primary school teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think that was the idea. Yep. I don't know if everyone's was a teacher. Some of them were the principals of the school. Mine was a, yes, primary school teacher at one of my schools because I had two schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to meet that person during that conference? Were you in the north or the south?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the north. My site was not very far from the capital or the training villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. When you say not very far, how long would it take you to get from Maseru to Tabola?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3434022144601492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think that was the idea. Yep. I don't know if everyone's was a teacher. Some of them were the principals of the school. Mine was a, yes, primary school teacher at one of my schools because I had two schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a chance to meet that person during that conference? Were you in the north or the south?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the north. My site was not very far from the capital or the training villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. When you say not very far, how long would it take you to get from Maseru to Tabola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, that's nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4926691271779435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the north. My site was not very far from the capital or the training villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. When you say not very far, how long would it take you to get from Maseru to Tabola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "An hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was not, not very far at all. So we were. We went from our orientation to these conferences where we met our counterpart. And then the school was supposed to provide transport for you and your things to your village when you were moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, from Maseru?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6585212524199373, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "An hour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was not, not very far at all. So we were. We went from our orientation to these conferences where we met our counterpart. And then the school was supposed to provide transport for you and your things to your village when you were moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, from Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From your."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From, from Makola?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8428013915777082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I was not, not very far at all. So we were. We went from our orientation to these conferences where we met our counterpart. And then the school was supposed to provide transport for you and your things to your village when you were moving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, from Maseru?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From your."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From, from Makola?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not from Makola, but from where you, from our conferences. We had brought all of our things to the conferences. So from the conferences you were going to take all of that stuff. So my counterpart had, uh, one of the people on the parents committee, a father on the parents committee, who had a truck that came and took me and all of my things. And we went to my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you went to the village. What's the road like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5278482737691466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My road was pretty good. I was right off of the main road. So there's one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Paved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a paved road. There's one main paved road that makes kind of a C around Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the lowlands area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it one lane or two lanes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8087203041879407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a paved road. There's one main paved road that makes kind of a C around Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the lowlands area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it one lane or two lanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's one lane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One lane for both. One lane in each direction?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1208003379866005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the lowlands area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And is it one lane or two lanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's one lane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One lane for both. One lane in each direction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's one lane in each direction, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's a two, two lane highway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5220245968398114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Paved, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow, deluxe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And I lived right off of that road. So that was really nice because I really didn't have the transportation struggles that many, many people did, who would be cruising along on this paved road and then would turn for maybe 4 hours or more on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mine, mine was not like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you get to Tabola and you're collected in a truck that the school provided to bring you and all your stuff over and. And they take you to where you're going to live for two years. Describe that place."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9133606631553457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. And I lived right off of that road. So that was really nice because I really didn't have the transportation struggles that many, many people did, who would be cruising along on this paved road and then would turn for maybe 4 hours or more on a dirt road."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mine, mine was not like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you get to Tabola and you're collected in a truck that the school provided to bring you and all your stuff over and. And they take you to where you're going to live for two years. Describe that place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Tabola, um, is a village right off of the main road. It, I don't remember how many people lived there. It had an upper and a lower part. It was basically at the base of a little, I would say mountain, but it's not really a mountain. It's like a foothill. And it had a primary school and then it had other little villages very close to it that had another primary school and a high school. And so there were these little villages just around this main road that kind of connected to Tabola, that was this main area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did it have a post office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1259562923948288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So mine, mine was not like that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So you get to Tabola and you're collected in a truck that the school provided to bring you and all your stuff over and. And they take you to where you're going to live for two years. Describe that place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Tabola, um, is a village right off of the main road. It, I don't remember how many people lived there. It had an upper and a lower part. It was basically at the base of a little, I would say mountain, but it's not really a mountain. It's like a foothill. And it had a primary school and then it had other little villages very close to it that had another primary school and a high school. And so there were these little villages just around this main road that kind of connected to Tabola, that was this main area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did it have a post office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It did not. There was a, kind of down the road, I mean, you know, 5 minutes in a taxi, there was a village called Peka, which was larger, and that was where the post office was. There were a few more shops there in Peka. I had my post office box there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So if you wanted to mail a letter to somebody or pick up mail coming into you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3621736582164763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Tabola, um, is a village right off of the main road. It, I don't remember how many people lived there. It had an upper and a lower part. It was basically at the base of a little, I would say mountain, but it's not really a mountain. It's like a foothill. And it had a primary school and then it had other little villages very close to it that had another primary school and a high school. And so there were these little villages just around this main road that kind of connected to Tabola, that was this main area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did it have a post office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It did not. There was a, kind of down the road, I mean, you know, 5 minutes in a taxi, there was a village called Peka, which was larger, and that was where the post office was. There were a few more shops there in Peka. I had my post office box there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So if you wanted to mail a letter to somebody or pick up mail coming into you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd go 5 minutes down the road to Peka and pick it up. Yeah, that's not too bad. And where you were in Tabola, was there electricity?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:495", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8051526644647857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd go 5 minutes down the road to Peka and pick it up. Yeah, that's not too bad. And where you were in Tabola, was there electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ho ha!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I think I was one of, yeah, maybe one other person in my group had electricity. I mean, it is very rare in Lesotho to get electricity. And primarily why did I have electricity was I was replacing another volunteer. So there was a volunteer who was before me and she had extended, so she had been there for three years in Tabola, living with the host family that I lived with. And so I think when she moved there, there wasn't electricity. And my host family did have electricity. So she managed to have somebody come and take a line and send it to her little, little house, which was on their compound. And so in your little traditional house, you had electricity. So I did have electricity and I paid my host family for what I used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.005725182738651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ho ha!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I think I was one of, yeah, maybe one other person in my group had electricity. I mean, it is very rare in Lesotho to get electricity. And primarily why did I have electricity was I was replacing another volunteer. So there was a volunteer who was before me and she had extended, so she had been there for three years in Tabola, living with the host family that I lived with. And so I think when she moved there, there wasn't electricity. And my host family did have electricity. So she managed to have somebody come and take a line and send it to her little, little house, which was on their compound. And so in your little traditional house, you had electricity. So I did have electricity and I paid my host family for what I used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2285835363762785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I think I was one of, yeah, maybe one other person in my group had electricity. I mean, it is very rare in Lesotho to get electricity. And primarily why did I have electricity was I was replacing another volunteer. So there was a volunteer who was before me and she had extended, so she had been there for three years in Tabola, living with the host family that I lived with. And so I think when she moved there, there wasn't electricity. And my host family did have electricity. So she managed to have somebody come and take a line and send it to her little, little house, which was on their compound. And so in your little traditional house, you had electricity. So I did have electricity and I paid my host family for what I used."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, Peace Corps gave you a living allowance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.476203929306976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Every month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, Peace Corps gave you a living allowance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That which was to cover things like your electricity. What else did you have to pay your? What else did you have to? What else did you need money to, to buy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7513376992299734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, Peace Corps gave you a living allowance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That which was to cover things like your electricity. What else did you have to pay your? What else did you have to? What else did you need money to, to buy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you know, food and transport were major things. I did pay for my electricity, but most people didn't have electricity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't have any."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3049899852263005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I paid for a data plan on my phone every month. I paid for, there was a really great plan that was unlimited data, which means that I could get Internet on my phone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had a BlackBerry that I had brought from the United States, which was my dad's BlackBerry, per the recommendation of a Peace Corps volunteer that was there who said, you know, Blackberries are kind of passé in the United States, but here they are really important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you want, if you could bring one, that would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had contact."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4499888724736671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had a BlackBerry that I had brought from the United States, which was my dad's BlackBerry, per the recommendation of a Peace Corps volunteer that was there who said, you know, Blackberries are kind of passé in the United States, but here they are really important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you want, if you could bring one, that would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had contact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you swing that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6110987471929634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if you want, if you could bring one, that would be great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had contact."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you swing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, my dad had a BlackBerry. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but I mean, what I mean is how did you know? How did you have contact?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7901097191032926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did have contact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you swing that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, my dad had a BlackBerry. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but I mean, what I mean is how did you know? How did you have contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With a Lesotho PCV to tell you what would be useful?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9890107990036585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, my dad had a BlackBerry. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but I mean, what I mean is how did you know? How did you have contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With a Lesotho PCV to tell you what would be useful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had, you know, once you figured out that you were going to Lesotho, I immediately started doing research of, like, who was going to be in my group. Can I find a list anywhere? They had sent in my package of, you know, my informational package of my country and all of that when I first was accepted, they had sent a letter of someone who was just writing to say what his daily life was like, what were the things that he recommended bringing. And I don't know. I don't think he had recommended bringing a phone, but I just remember speaking with people via, I think, social media that were currently in Lesotho and ask them, okay, what should I bring? You know. And I asked about the phone, should I wait to get into country to buy a phone or what? And they said, if you can, bring something in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, how, how helpful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4555688876588375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had, you know, once you figured out that you were going to Lesotho, I immediately started doing research of, like, who was going to be in my group. Can I find a list anywhere? They had sent in my package of, you know, my informational package of my country and all of that when I first was accepted, they had sent a letter of someone who was just writing to say what his daily life was like, what were the things that he recommended bringing. And I don't know. I don't think he had recommended bringing a phone, but I just remember speaking with people via, I think, social media that were currently in Lesotho and ask them, okay, what should I bring? You know. And I asked about the phone, should I wait to get into country to buy a phone or what? And they said, if you can, bring something in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, how, how helpful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different than a lot of people's experiences in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. That really smoothed the way for you. So I'd like to know more about the place you were. First of all, you were living with a family, another host family, a different host family now, not the one in training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.728409875176486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's very."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different than a lot of people's experiences in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. That really smoothed the way for you. So I'd like to know more about the place you were. First of all, you were living with a family, another host family, a different host family now, not the one in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you're in Tabola."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.0315665279738733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very different than a lot of people's experiences in the past."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful. That really smoothed the way for you. So I'd like to know more about the place you were. First of all, you were living with a family, another host family, a different host family now, not the one in training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you're in Tabola."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your Tabola family like, your host family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5081068246591025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's your Tabola family like, your host family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were wonderful.\n\nThey were the Mognani family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mognani."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My host mother was the principal of the primary school in Tabola, and my host father was a preacher at the church that they had on their compound, which was just a little building separate from their house and right next to my house. I lived on their compound in what's considered a traditional house, which is a stone rondavel. It's a circle, like a circle hut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your house was like that? A round rondavel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.675674249621225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were wonderful.\n\nThey were the Mognani family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mognani."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. My host mother was the principal of the primary school in Tabola, and my host father was a preacher at the church that they had on their compound, which was just a little building separate from their house and right next to my house. I lived on their compound in what's considered a traditional house, which is a stone rondavel. It's a circle, like a circle hut."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your house was like that? A round rondavel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rondavel, that's what they called them, with a thatched roof. And they lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of door?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.068733641507685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rondavel, that's what they called them, with a thatched roof. And they lived."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of door?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wooden door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Windows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. I had two windows. It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then an electric light bulb?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.298592935008539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A wooden door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Windows?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. I had two windows. It was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then an electric light bulb?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Yeah, I had a little, little light bulb. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a refrigerator?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8377690555660973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Yeah, I had a little, little light bulb. It was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have a refrigerator?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did buy a refrigerator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little one. It was such the posh life. It was. Peace Corps volunteers would visit me and just couldn't get over that I had a refrigerator because that just doesn't happen there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your host family's house was also a rondavel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5034185871186385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little one. It was such the posh life. It was. Peace Corps volunteers would visit me and just couldn't get over that I had a refrigerator because that just doesn't happen there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your host family's house was also a rondavel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't. It was considered a more modern house. It was a brick house with a tin roof and in a square shaped. So primarily around the Lesotho, you would find these round stone with thatched roofed houses as the older traditional houses. And then people, when they were expanding their compound, when families were growing, kind of the more modern thing to do would be building these stone, uh, sorry, brick, square brick houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yep, they lived right close to me in this brick house. And they had a TV. They had electricity, they had a gas stove, and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did they cook for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8926873190207094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't. It was considered a more modern house. It was a brick house with a tin roof and in a square shaped. So primarily around the Lesotho, you would find these round stone with thatched roofed houses as the older traditional houses. And then people, when they were expanding their compound, when families were growing, kind of the more modern thing to do would be building these stone, uh, sorry, brick, square brick houses."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yep, they lived right close to me in this brick house. And they had a TV. They had electricity, they had a gas stove, and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did they cook for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I cooked for myself. I had a little gas stove, and I did all of my own shopping. I had a garden, which was very nice. They had a big area for their garden, and they gave me a little section of it so that I could do my own gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice. What did you grow?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3252081322452325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yep, they lived right close to me in this brick house. And they had a TV. They had electricity, they had a gas stove, and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Did they cook for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I cooked for myself. I had a little gas stove, and I did all of my own shopping. I had a garden, which was very nice. They had a big area for their garden, and they gave me a little section of it so that I could do my own gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice. What did you grow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I grew lots of things. I grew Swiss chard, which was phenomenal. It was just very successful. I grew zucchinis, green beans, lettuce. I think there was spinach. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these things that your whole family also grew in their portion of the garden?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.805786813605814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I cooked for myself. I had a little gas stove, and I did all of my own shopping. I had a garden, which was very nice. They had a big area for their garden, and they gave me a little section of it so that I could do my own gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice. What did you grow?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I grew lots of things. I grew Swiss chard, which was phenomenal. It was just very successful. I grew zucchinis, green beans, lettuce. I think there was spinach. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these things that your whole family also grew in their portion of the garden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they grew, um, well, they grew actually Swiss chard in their portion. They grew a lot of cabbage. That's kind of a staple in Lesotho. They grew spinach, a certain kind of spinach, and I think some beans as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the food, what's the cuisine like in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.339763126228682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I grew lots of things. I grew Swiss chard, which was phenomenal. It was just very successful. I grew zucchinis, green beans, lettuce. I think there was spinach. Things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are these things that your whole family also grew in their portion of the garden?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they grew, um, well, they grew actually Swiss chard in their portion. They grew a lot of cabbage. That's kind of a staple in Lesotho. They grew spinach, a certain kind of spinach, and I think some beans as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's the food, what's the cuisine like in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Lesotho, the base, the core of the meal really is papa, which is a kind of a cornmeal mush. I think in the United States, it would be comparable to grits. But it's definitely very firm. So that was the staple food. And then people would eat moroho next to it. Moroho is really just any kind of cooked greens. So a lot of times it was cabbage just chopped up and cooked with some oil and salt. And you would eat that with the papa. It was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Onions, any onions or garlic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.592300155837878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Lesotho, the base, the core of the meal really is papa, which is a kind of a cornmeal mush. I think in the United States, it would be comparable to grits. But it's definitely very firm. So that was the staple food. And then people would eat moroho next to it. Moroho is really just any kind of cooked greens. So a lot of times it was cabbage just chopped up and cooked with some oil and salt. And you would eat that with the papa. It was very good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Onions, any onions or garlic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes they would put onions and garlic with beans or when they would make chicken or something. But not, not usually. Sometimes, yeah, they would make these kind of baked beans on the side. Meat was usually for special occasions or on Sunday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no fish. It's a mountain country. There were not a lot of, um, not a lot of fish there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if there was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.324777950930976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes they would put onions and garlic with beans or when they would make chicken or something. But not, not usually. Sometimes, yeah, they would make these kind of baked beans on the side. Meat was usually for special occasions or on Sunday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no fish. It's a mountain country. There were not a lot of, um, not a lot of fish there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if there was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken. Chicken was the big thing for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Did your host family ever invite you to come and sit with them and eat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.138642167701084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no fish. It's a mountain country. There were not a lot of, um, not a lot of fish there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if there was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken. Chicken was the big thing for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Did your host family ever invite you to come and sit with them and eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they did. They were lovely people. And yeah, they would lots of times. Or if they thought that I was having a hard day or anything, they would just welcome me inside. Or if I was just there talking with my host mom, who was great, and we would talk all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was the, what did you say, she was the principal of the school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 9.042935741890092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Chicken. Chicken was the big thing for meat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. Did your host family ever invite you to come and sit with them and eat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, they did. They were lovely people. And yeah, they would lots of times. Or if they thought that I was having a hard day or anything, they would just welcome me inside. Or if I was just there talking with my host mom, who was great, and we would talk all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she was the, what did you say, she was the principal of the school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The principal of the school that you were working in. So she was also your counterpart?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.311297313978178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was not my counterpart. I worked at two schools. So I worked at the primary school in Tabola. And she definitely was my main reference for that school. But I guess the main school that I was supposed to be really working with was another school called Lepholisa. So my school into Tabola was called Mopeli. My host mother was called Matabo Mognani and she was the principal of Mopeli Primary School. Then my, my other school was Lepholisa Primary School, and my counterpart was a teacher there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my principal just was obviously a main resource for me at that school as well. And I think the reason I was put to work there as well and that was kind of my, um. The name of the school on the paper that I was assigned to was, because it was just less funded than the Mopeli that I worked. Mopeli was a government school. So they had all this, these resources from the government and the government provided the building, textbooks, things like that. Lepholisa, which was the village across the road, is a church school. So they only had funding through the church. It's considered a private school, and they just didn't have as many resources and as much funding. And the school building was just not very large and students had to share classes and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So two very different schools. Mopeli had one classroom per grade. So it was, uh, yeah, better management of classes there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. An easier environment in which to teach."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.790330348864642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my principal just was obviously a main resource for me at that school as well. And I think the reason I was put to work there as well and that was kind of my, um. The name of the school on the paper that I was assigned to was, because it was just less funded than the Mopeli that I worked. Mopeli was a government school. So they had all this, these resources from the government and the government provided the building, textbooks, things like that. Lepholisa, which was the village across the road, is a church school. So they only had funding through the church. It's considered a private school, and they just didn't have as many resources and as much funding. And the school building was just not very large and students had to share classes and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So two very different schools. Mopeli had one classroom per grade. So it was, uh, yeah, better management of classes there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. An easier environment in which to teach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, let's go to school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.322589276516269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So two very different schools. Mopeli had one classroom per grade. So it was, uh, yeah, better management of classes there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. An easier environment in which to teach."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's, let's go to school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's, let's go to school at Mopeli first. What's that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.33652997100774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's, let's go to school at Mopeli first. What's that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Mopeli was really close to my house so I would just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Walk over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the morning, I would walk over in my little teacher's shoes and my colleagues would also probably be walking over at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, wait a minute, your little teacher shoes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9499567664274404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "English in Lesotho is very important. It's an official language. The two official languages are Sesotho and English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the reason it was so important was because their final exams, students, when they reached 12th grade, their final exams were in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Even the math portion, everything. The only part that was in Sesotho was the Sesotho part. Everything else was in English, at least at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose that would be true in South Africa as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:589", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1666186293638225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the reason it was so important was because their final exams, students, when they reached 12th grade, their final exams were in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Even the math portion, everything. The only part that was in Sesotho was the Sesotho part. Everything else was in English, at least at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose that would be true in South Africa as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Also a lot of, I mean, there were a lot of job opportunities in South Africa and South Africa has a lot of languages. And so really English is kind of a primary connector between all the different communities there that speak different languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, your host mother, who's the principal of the government school, would, would be a good English speaker."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4073540326264693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Even the math portion, everything. The only part that was in Sesotho was the Sesotho part. Everything else was in English, at least at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose that would be true in South Africa as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Also a lot of, I mean, there were a lot of job opportunities in South Africa and South Africa has a lot of languages. And so really English is kind of a primary connector between all the different communities there that speak different languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, your host mother, who's the principal of the government school, would, would be a good English speaker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she spoke English very well. Yes. And I, you know, I taught there and I had my own little office, which was the school library, which the volunteer before me had set up with the help of another volunteer. They worked on that, I think, together. So there were already books at this school and there was already a little library, and I suppose that's where she had her little office. And so that was my office, which was really nice. I inherited a nice little working space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were also the librarian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:593", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6748378140294102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Also a lot of, I mean, there were a lot of job opportunities in South Africa and South Africa has a lot of languages. And so really English is kind of a primary connector between all the different communities there that speak different languages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So of course, your host mother, who's the principal of the government school, would, would be a good English speaker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she spoke English very well. Yes. And I, you know, I taught there and I had my own little office, which was the school library, which the volunteer before me had set up with the help of another volunteer. They worked on that, I think, together. So there were already books at this school and there was already a little library, and I suppose that's where she had her little office. And so that was my office, which was really nice. I inherited a nice little working space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were also the librarian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Of course, the volunteer before me had tried to set up a system that made the students accountable for taking care of the library. So she had a system where students would elect their classmates to be librarians. And so that would mean that, you know, once a week or something, you would come into the library and you would clean it and you would spend time in there to reorganize the books and all of that. You were kind of held accountable to pursue the students who were not returning the library books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9720420155882334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, she spoke English very well. Yes. And I, you know, I taught there and I had my own little office, which was the school library, which the volunteer before me had set up with the help of another volunteer. They worked on that, I think, together. So there were already books at this school and there was already a little library, and I suppose that's where she had her little office. And so that was my office, which was really nice. I inherited a nice little working space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does that mean you were also the librarian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Of course, the volunteer before me had tried to set up a system that made the students accountable for taking care of the library. So she had a system where students would elect their classmates to be librarians. And so that would mean that, you know, once a week or something, you would come into the library and you would clean it and you would spend time in there to reorganize the books and all of that. You were kind of held accountable to pursue the students who were not returning the library books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very important. People like that. So and I, of course, tried to maintain that tradition, and it worked pretty well, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever meet that volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3022689062091484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. Of course, the volunteer before me had tried to set up a system that made the students accountable for taking care of the library. So she had a system where students would elect their classmates to be librarians. And so that would mean that, you know, once a week or something, you would come into the library and you would clean it and you would spend time in there to reorganize the books and all of that. You were kind of held accountable to pursue the students who were not returning the library books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very important. People like that. So and I, of course, tried to maintain that tradition, and it worked pretty well, actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever meet that volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, so you overlapped for a couple days or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0768751928508005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good, so you overlapped for a couple days or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We overlapped. Mm hmm. And she was such a great resource to me. I mean, she had a wonderful reputation, of course, in my village. And she, you know, if anything really also gave me a lot of things in her home, which was just so nice to, to really have a have a kind of one foot through the door already and, right, the little working space, all of these things that I just had inherited. It was just very easy to kind of step into that role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was one of these teacher, teacher resources, so she wasn't necessarily teaching English, but she was a retired teacher from the United States who had come in as a resource for the school. And the library was a really big resource for the school. I would say that working in the library, being there, was probably I had my happiest moments in the Peace Corps in that library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And did you, did you interact, when you were in the library you were working with students?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:603", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.529861325389778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We overlapped. Mm hmm. And she was such a great resource to me. I mean, she had a wonderful reputation, of course, in my village. And she, you know, if anything really also gave me a lot of things in her home, which was just so nice to, to really have a have a kind of one foot through the door already and, right, the little working space, all of these things that I just had inherited. It was just very easy to kind of step into that role."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was one of these teacher, teacher resources, so she wasn't necessarily teaching English, but she was a retired teacher from the United States who had come in as a resource for the school. And the library was a really big resource for the school. I would say that working in the library, being there, was probably I had my happiest moments in the Peace Corps in that library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And did you, did you interact, when you were in the library you were working with students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interacting with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.9220681393219756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she was one of these teacher, teacher resources, so she wasn't necessarily teaching English, but she was a retired teacher from the United States who had come in as a resource for the school. And the library was a really big resource for the school. I would say that working in the library, being there, was probably I had my happiest moments in the Peace Corps in that library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. And did you, did you interact, when you were in the library you were working with students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interacting with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that would be my office space for when I was planning my lessons and all of that. And I would basically just walk into the class. When it was time for English, I would walk into the class and do my little 40 minutes of English. I loved it so much. It was just so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so a class was 40 minutes long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2467423770244173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interacting with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that would be my office space for when I was planning my lessons and all of that. And I would basically just walk into the class. When it was time for English, I would walk into the class and do my little 40 minutes of English. I loved it so much. It was just so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so a class was 40 minutes long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 minutes long. My school was small, so I had between. It was like around 20, 25 students per class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth, sixth and seventh grade."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.60749153002713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that would be my office space for when I was planning my lessons and all of that. And I would basically just walk into the class. When it was time for English, I would walk into the class and do my little 40 minutes of English. I loved it so much. It was just so fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so a class was 40 minutes long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 minutes long. My school was small, so I had between. It was like around 20, 25 students per class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth, sixth and seventh grade."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Each class was around that size. So I would go into those classes at different points of the day, and I would help out with other things. Sometimes, you know, a teacher needed help with something. I was just also a resource for other things. And I, I maintained the library and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's walk into a classroom."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.008323922252367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "40 minutes long. My school was small, so I had between. It was like around 20, 25 students per class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth, sixth and seventh grade."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Each class was around that size. So I would go into those classes at different points of the day, and I would help out with other things. Sometimes, you know, a teacher needed help with something. I was just also a resource for other things. And I, I maintained the library and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's walk into a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth grade. You walk in. Do the students stand up to greet you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.453693246947074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. Each class was around that size. So I would go into those classes at different points of the day, and I would help out with other things. Sometimes, you know, a teacher needed help with something. I was just also a resource for other things. And I, I maintained the library and all of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's walk into a classroom."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth grade. You walk in. Do the students stand up to greet you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they? How do you begin the, the hour that, your 40 minutes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.837436941052305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fifth grade. You walk in. Do the students stand up to greet you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they? How do you begin the, the hour that, your 40 minutes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think maybe at the beginning, when I was new, they would stand up to greet me and it would be like. I would say, you know, in Sesotho I would say, good morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would say it in Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.26381882339145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do they? How do you begin the, the hour that, your 40 minutes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think maybe at the beginning, when I was new, they would stand up to greet me and it would be like. I would say, you know, in Sesotho I would say, good morning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You would say it in Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, let's hear it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0294059548042584, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, let's hear it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say dumelang, which is just hello. And they'd say, dumelang, madam. They would call me madam. Yes. And I would say, le phela jwang, which means, how are you? How are you all? And they would say, [speaks Sesotho], or we're good, you know, [speaks Sesotho]. How are you? And I would say, [speaks Sesotho]. I'm good. Because, of course, greetings were very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So or I would say it in English too, sometimes. But really at the beginning I did it in Sesotho. And I structured my classes so that I would have a warmup and we would go through the English curriculum that was already set up. So I would base my lessons on, on that information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Students had textbooks for this English class?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.477117727560287, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would say dumelang, which is just hello. And they'd say, dumelang, madam. They would call me madam. Yes. And I would say, le phela jwang, which means, how are you? How are you all? And they would say, [speaks Sesotho], or we're good, you know, [speaks Sesotho]. How are you? And I would say, [speaks Sesotho]. I'm good. Because, of course, greetings were very important."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So or I would say it in English too, sometimes. But really at the beginning I did it in Sesotho. And I structured my classes so that I would have a warmup and we would go through the English curriculum that was already set up. So I would base my lessons on, on that information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Students had textbooks for this English class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to make up you own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:625", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9745752528447635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So or I would say it in English too, sometimes. But really at the beginning I did it in Sesotho. And I structured my classes so that I would have a warmup and we would go through the English curriculum that was already set up. So I would base my lessons on, on that information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Students had textbooks for this English class?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to make up you own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made up my own materials for the most part. I had, there was a curriculum that all the teachers followed. For every grade there was a curriculum of the material that you had to cover. And the students had notebooks, paper, pens, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were to write on the board and they would copy into the notebooks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.527305836494182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to make up you own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made up my own materials for the most part. I had, there was a curriculum that all the teachers followed. For every grade there was a curriculum of the material that you had to cover. And the students had notebooks, paper, pens, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were to write on the board and they would copy into the notebooks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's pretty much how it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, do you ever, were you able to make a worksheet, say, and run it off in the school office, make copies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:631", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8238343660422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's pretty much how it works."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, do you ever, were you able to make a worksheet, say, and run it off in the school office, make copies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't have a copy machine. That would have been wonderful. But we did not have that. So a lot of times what I would do when we had a test or a quiz or something like that, anything, I would write it all out on the board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it took a lot of time and they had these really big, wonderful chalkboards. I mean, for that reason, because of course everybody else did that. And every other subject, you would write the entire test out on the board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And students copied."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:635", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.424486871657036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it took a lot of time and they had these really big, wonderful chalkboards. I mean, for that reason, because of course everybody else did that. And every other subject, you would write the entire test out on the board."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And students copied."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The students copied everything down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:637", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.360540968507818, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The students copied everything down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 10.400601076119798, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.667334529021999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I split up my week. I would spend Monday and Tuesday at Mopeli, Wednesday and Thursday at Lepholisa. And Fridays I did alternatively between the schools, you know, once a week. I mean, every other week I would go to the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Lepholisa, was it? They didn't have as many classrooms or they didn't have a separate classroom for each grade?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9637050322466654, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I split up my week. I would spend Monday and Tuesday at Mopeli, Wednesday and Thursday at Lepholisa. And Fridays I did alternatively between the schools, you know, once a week. I mean, every other week I would go to the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Lepholisa, was it? They didn't have as many classrooms or they didn't have a separate classroom for each grade?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right.\n\nLepholisa was in dire straits when I arrived. They, their building was a church building. And so there was a big main hall area, just a big room, that was the younger students. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Younger students meaning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:659", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5340444217497193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yep. The chalkboards were just basically pieces of plywood that had been, I mean, very, very old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Painted black?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been painted black with chalkboard paint a long time ago. They had holes in them. They were falling off. You would, you would lean them up against a chair to write anything. And it was, you know, maybe two feet by three feet. It was not very large at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, yeah, it was, it was definitely very different than the government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was Lepholisa from Mopeli?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:661", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.704493801944133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That had been painted black with chalkboard paint a long time ago. They had holes in them. They were falling off. You would, you would lean them up against a chair to write anything. And it was, you know, maybe two feet by three feet. It was not very large at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, yeah, it was, it was definitely very different than the government school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far away was Lepholisa from Mopeli?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very far. It was the next village over. I could walk there and it would take 30 minutes, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could the kids from Lepholisa not have gone to school in Mopeli where the facilities were so much better?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:667", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.338125928592775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, no. There was the idea that if you were in Lepholisa, if you were born in the Lepholisa village, you would go to the Lepholisa school. The people in that village all went to that church. I mean, really, you know, the communities in Lesotho a lot of times when they are small like that, there are lots of extended family members are there. So they're all part of the same church."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the expectation was that if you are part of this church, you will support us. You will come to this school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have excellent teachers and all of that, which they did. But the resources were just not as minimal, were definitely minimal so. So I split up my time between those, those two schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any help from Peace Corps in, in terms of resources? Or did people from Peace Corps come up to visit you to see how you're doing and give you suggestions about classroom management or whatever?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:675", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.563673111709762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or my, you know, my program director would come, who was a host country. He would come, right, and tour the school with me and talk about how we're doing, how I'm doing. I think that happened once a year. So we had two visits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a few people would come by. But, I mean, the idea was really that you were supposed to work with your counterpart. Your counterpart was your number one person to stay in touch with. And, you know, people in the village and the community. I mean, not everybody had a counterpart that they could rely on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:677", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9596367907886245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, a few people would come by. But, I mean, the idea was really that you were supposed to work with your counterpart. Your counterpart was your number one person to stay in touch with. And, you know, people in the village and the community. I mean, not everybody had a counterpart that they could rely on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:679", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.399596434209583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could have functioned."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:681", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.888440482455092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You could have functioned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I functioned a lot in English, which was just, um, disappointing I know in a lot of ways. But I had my conversation Sesotho. And of course, when I walked to my schools in the morning, I was always greeted by the villagers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, in Sesotho."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.9240005956235695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I functioned a lot in English, which was just, um, disappointing I know in a lot of ways. But I had my conversation Sesotho. And of course, when I walked to my schools in the morning, I was always greeted by the villagers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, in Sesotho."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Sesotho, and I would have, you know, the basic conversations in Sesotho and I really could get by understanding everything. And I did, you know, learn a lot, but I taught English and the, in schools you are also supposed to speak English. Starting in fourth grade, all of their language, I'm sorry, all of their subjects are in English. That's the idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just, my Sesotho wasn't, wasn't pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So you, you made friendships with people from Lesotho, your counterpart, um, your host mother. Yeah, that sounds good. And was there another volunteer in your town, or were you the only American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:689", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4987661674365054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just, my Sesotho wasn't, wasn't pristine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. So you, you made friendships with people from Lesotho, your counterpart, um, your host mother. Yeah, that sounds good. And was there another volunteer in your town, or were you the only American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only American in my town. But I didn't live very far away from other Americans. There was the married couple I was telling you about. They lived down the dirt road that went behind my village, up to the mountain and beyond. So I could walk to their house in maybe an hour and a half, or something like that. They were probably the closest volunteers to me. And then as my service continued this kind of later on, maybe nine months in, there was a volunteer that was medically evacuated from another Peace Corps country. And he came to Lesotho and was placed in the high school that was the village over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were actually quite alone in your own town."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.776406852707228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was the only American in my town. But I didn't live very far away from other Americans. There was the married couple I was telling you about. They lived down the dirt road that went behind my village, up to the mountain and beyond. So I could walk to their house in maybe an hour and a half, or something like that. They were probably the closest volunteers to me. And then as my service continued this kind of later on, maybe nine months in, there was a volunteer that was medically evacuated from another Peace Corps country. And he came to Lesotho and was placed in the high school that was the village over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were actually quite alone in your own town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my own town, there was no one else but me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:693", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0848965030080313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were actually quite alone in your own town."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my own town, there was no one else but me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot. I really like to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:695", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4276627811200346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my own town, there was no one else but me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot. I really like to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.\n\nI did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So you had milk?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:697", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.697403090133372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read a lot. I really like to read."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.\n\nI did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So you had milk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had milk. Right. I could keep milk. I mean, a lot of volunteers kept milk anyways. It just, it would be in these little cartons and they would use it up, you know, depending on the season, in a day or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have running water in your house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:699", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7748923223704131, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.\n\nI did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah. So you had milk?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had milk. Right. I could keep milk. I mean, a lot of volunteers kept milk anyways. It just, it would be in these little cartons and they would use it up, you know, depending on the season, in a day or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have running water in your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have running water. I think most people didn't have running water either. The water situation was I had a pump that was a few feet from my house. It was not on my compound, but it was right on the main pathway in the village. So it was just very close to my house. And there were a few pumps around the village at different areas and a hand pump. So you would go. I had a 20, a few 20 liter buckets, and I would go and wait there for everybody to finish up and I would wait for my turn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that would be a good time for conversation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9566571881116209, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't have running water. I think most people didn't have running water either. The water situation was I had a pump that was a few feet from my house. It was not on my compound, but it was right on the main pathway in the village. So it was just very close to my house. And there were a few pumps around the village at different areas and a hand pump. So you would go. I had a 20, a few 20 liter buckets, and I would go and wait there for everybody to finish up and I would wait for my turn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, well, that would be a good time for conversation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. You would talk with those people. Sometimes my students were there. They'd be playing music and, you know, with little radios and such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:705", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0629524312351344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. You would talk with those people. Sometimes my students were there. They'd be playing music and, you know, with little radios and such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:707", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.181058256927927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At least where I lived it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was enough of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:709", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3122869521421412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, very nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. At least where I lived it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And there was enough of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Did you ever get sick?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:713", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6201073483236308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good. Did you ever get sick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, one time I had ringworm, which is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a skin thing, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:719", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2223694764384505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a skin thing, right. I didn't, I didn't even know what it was. But, yeah, it was very easily treated, tiny little antibiotic cream, and that's it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that, that was it. I never, yeah, never got sick. In fact, I was very healthy when I was there. I mean, I lost a lot of weight because I was just eating from my garden and all the walking, very fit from pumping my own water. I mean, I feel like I was in the prime of my life when I lived in Lesotho. Yeah, I ate very healthily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, it was good. I did not get sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, can you describe? What about the music, music and art and what? Talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:721", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.469299418264945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But that, that was it. I never, yeah, never got sick. In fact, I was very healthy when I was there. I mean, I lost a lot of weight because I was just eating from my garden and all the walking, very fit from pumping my own water. I mean, I feel like I was in the prime of my life when I lived in Lesotho. Yeah, I ate very healthily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was, it was good. I did not get sick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, can you describe? What about the music, music and art and what? Talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, um, Lesotho, its culture is a conservative one in that it's not a kind of a bright and in-your-face culture. For example, you know, when I heard that I was going to Lesotho, nothing, I could depict no images in my head of what that might look like at all. What the food might look like, what the traditional clothes were, anything. So and, you know, the culture is kind of one that is, um, just very minimalist in a way. So they have, um.\n\nSo in terms of clothes, traditional outfits, they, they do have traditional outfits. They have a traditional fabric, which is kind of these bright colors, very small print designs, like little circles or little diamonds, something like that. And, you know, there's a lot of women generally in the village that know how to sew and would make dresses and skirts for the women. And the men would wear these shirts with this, these different fabrics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabrics were home spun, spun in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:725", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0485178003270925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, um, Lesotho, its culture is a conservative one in that it's not a kind of a bright and in-your-face culture. For example, you know, when I heard that I was going to Lesotho, nothing, I could depict no images in my head of what that might look like at all. What the food might look like, what the traditional clothes were, anything. So and, you know, the culture is kind of one that is, um, just very minimalist in a way. So they have, um.\n\nSo in terms of clothes, traditional outfits, they, they do have traditional outfits. They have a traditional fabric, which is kind of these bright colors, very small print designs, like little circles or little diamonds, something like that. And, you know, there's a lot of women generally in the village that know how to sew and would make dresses and skirts for the women. And the men would wear these shirts with this, these different fabrics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fabrics were home spun, spun in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry. The fabric itself, no, actually, I don't think it was. I mean, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So like the market cloth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:733", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.646422497069185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that's kind of the traditional clothes that people would wear generally for celebrations and things like that. Music was very important in Lesotho. Church is a big aspect of life for a lot of people. So lots of a cappella singing, a lot of church songs, things like that. Singing was so enormous. I mean, just a part of everyday life. And I loved it so much. I mean, every morning the students would sing, you know, the national anthem. They would sing little songs before they started off their school day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In Sesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes in English. Sesotho and in English. And it was such a lovely way to start the day when you have an assembly. And then they would, you know, maybe the eldest class would, like the seventh graders or something, would pick the song that they would sing and they would sing this little song and they'd march off to their classes singing the song. And it was just a great way to start the day. But anyways, so really just every day people were singing all the time together in harmony, which was always really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.051580552299095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes in English. Sesotho and in English. And it was such a lovely way to start the day when you have an assembly. And then they would, you know, maybe the eldest class would, like the seventh graders or something, would pick the song that they would sing and they would sing this little song and they'd march off to their classes singing the song. And it was just a great way to start the day. But anyways, so really just every day people were singing all the time together in harmony, which was always really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:737", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.501756169221216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.001951299134684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, on CDs. I got a few MP3 clips from friends of that music. And then there was famo music, which is kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, say it again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.446612554594093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, on CDs. I got a few MP3 clips from friends of that music. And then there was famo music, which is kind of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What, say it again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Famo music, which is kind of more traditionally for Lesotho. And it's these kind of, um, song stories that people would sing. Many times it was men, and a lot of times it had an accordion and a harmonica. And sometimes, and this beat, it would always, almost always start the same way. And it would be usually a man saying a story of something that happened to him. A lot of times it was pretty random and I didn't like it very much. It was a, I had never heard anything like it and it was not always what I wanted to hear, but my next door neighbor would blast it at all hours. So it was always a struggle with that kind of music."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you were there for two years. Was the second year in any way different from the first?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:749", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0186138615974585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the second year, I, my big project was helping Lepholisa build classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I asked Lepholisa, you know, what, okay, what should we do? You know, I'm here. I've got one more year. I could probably get funding from the United States. What, what is the most important thing that you think Lepholisa would need funding for? And immediately they said classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Classrooms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we really worked hard to get classrooms built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get funding?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.465126512886065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, when I asked Lepholisa, you know, what, okay, what should we do? You know, I'm here. I've got one more year. I could probably get funding from the United States. What, what is the most important thing that you think Lepholisa would need funding for? And immediately they said classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Classrooms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we really worked hard to get classrooms built."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get funding?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:755", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9322549541803267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you do that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is the PCPP. It's like Peace Corps Partnership Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I applied and, you know, we basically were accepted to have Peace Corps' name put on this program, um, this, this, you know, offer basically. Or what we were asking for, to put Peace Corps' name onto it. So then my name got put onto the Peace Corps website of saying, okay, you know, here you can fund a Peace Corps volunteer's current project. And so that would be for people in the United States who maybe wanted to support me. I mean, I had, you know, family members, friends that, that wanted to just do something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Did the RPCV group here in Madison contribute to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:761", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.65055549270278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They helped me so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good, good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote newsletters once a month via email that I sent out to a big listserv of my family and friends, and a few of them were returned Peace Corps volunteers from Madison, and they really supported me. They got to know the people that I would talk about on my newsletters, my host family, people like that, my village. And maybe I would talk about how, oh, you know, we didn't have enough markers so I couldn't finish this poster I was making, for example. I don't think that actually happened. But they would send me school supplies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just really, really instrumental. I had a very good friend who would also help me get some of my, my newsletters published via Peace Corps affiliated magazines and blogs and things like that. So I really had help from people that I didn't really know as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is true."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:763", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9450616585586444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wrote newsletters once a month via email that I sent out to a big listserv of my family and friends, and a few of them were returned Peace Corps volunteers from Madison, and they really supported me. They got to know the people that I would talk about on my newsletters, my host family, people like that, my village. And maybe I would talk about how, oh, you know, we didn't have enough markers so I couldn't finish this poster I was making, for example. I don't think that actually happened. But they would send me school supplies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh boy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were just really, really instrumental. I had a very good friend who would also help me get some of my, my newsletters published via Peace Corps affiliated magazines and blogs and things like that. So I really had help from people that I didn't really know as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. So you succeeded in getting some classrooms built?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.04628120851012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And water. People going to get water from the pump basically, which was huge. So, uh, so that was really wonderful. And I did a few other projects too. Built some chalkboards for the class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was really important. Helped set up the library at Lepholisa, because they had books but they were in boxes. And so no one ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't a library system set up at all. Books were not on the shelf at all. So we built some bookshelves and put the books on the wall, things like that. So yeah, a lot happened in that second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds very gratifying."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.229976800629777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn't a library system set up at all. Books were not on the shelf at all. So we built some bookshelves and put the books on the wall, things like that. So yeah, a lot happened in that second year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds very gratifying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any vacations? Did you get time off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.691329383493551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you take any vacations? Did you get time off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School holidays?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do? Where'd you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:793", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.187516207123231, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I traveled a lot. I went to Swaziland, another small country in southern Africa. So it was very interesting to compare those countries. I went to South Africa a few times. I went to Botswana, I went to Zimbabwe and Zambia area. I went to Madagascar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is all during your two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:795", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.4305735634702565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is all during your two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was all during my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you had holiday time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:799", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7661402018151315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was all during my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you had holiday time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then I took my close of service trip to Mozambique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Mozambique."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really traveled a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was on your way home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:801", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.962378002016813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then I took my close of service trip to Mozambique."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To Mozambique."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really traveled a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was on your way home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was on my way home, yeah. So it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, about things that happened when you were in Lesotho?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:803", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1804200022409033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I really traveled a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was on your way home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was on my way home, yeah. So it was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, about things that happened when you were in Lesotho?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Transportation was always really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You mentioned taxis a couple of times."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:807", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.691876545976424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Transportation was always really interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You mentioned taxis a couple of times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it like a taxi like when you call a union cab here or is it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.990973939973804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Describe that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it like a taxi like when you call a union cab here or is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. They would have taxi ranks in these bigger cities or urban areas, so there would be a place to go get your taxi. Again, fortunately for me, I lived on the main road so my, I could almost always quickly catch a taxi because it was very well traveled in that area. It's not like I needed a special one for my village. I could just get off at my stop, basically. So that was lucky for me. I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would you be all by yourself in a taxi or are these, like, collective little, sort of like minivans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:819", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6934985181354523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so that was always funny. I didn't, I didn't mind so much in the wintertime, of course, but in the summertime it would be very hot and I would open the window and some grandmother next to me would say, what are you doing? Close the windows. Sufuba, sufuba, you're going to get sick! And I'd be like, no, we're going to get sick sitting in here. You know, it's so hot, all the germs. It was always really funny. But yeah, transportation was always just very exhilarating because you never quite knew what was going to happen. And I was very fortunate in that my transportation, I had very, I mean, generally good experiences.\n\nBut there's also a culture around transportation. Like you, you know, there's a lady that comes in with bags and you have to help this lady with her bags. Or someone that comes in with multiple babies. You have to, you know, she would just pass you a baby and you hold onto the baby for the ride. Or you'd hold onto someone's chickens or whatnot. And, you know, there was also, you would, if you put yourself in someone's taxi, you shouldn't get out and try to get on to a different taxi because that would offend the driver and all of that, even though that taxi might be leaving now and you don't know how long your taxi is going to be filled up. There was just all of these cultural, um, innuendo moments that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That revolved around transportation, which I feel like we don't have in the United States so much because we're very private in our transportation options."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was always very interesting. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was, what was difficult? Was there anything difficult?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:829", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.561463391650074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The only time that ever happened to me. But I, it was very frustrating. Like I, I have been taking this taxi for two years, my friend. You know, I know how much it costs. And of course, it was a new, new driver."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who didn't know me, you know. So things like that. I had, I had a rat problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, vermin. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they get in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9571815462778597, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who didn't know me, you know. So things like that. I had, I had a rat problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, vermin. So that was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they get in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was almost traumatizing. Um. My house, although I loved it very much, was a very old house too. It was almost 100 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. What kind of floor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:835", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.885409316392419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was almost traumatizing. Um. My house, although I loved it very much, was a very old house too. It was almost 100 years old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. What kind of floor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had a concrete floor. I think, though, that the volunteer before me was, had had that made. I don't think it was always a concrete floor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So by the time I arrived, I don't know, there was a very nice concrete floor and she had put tiles on it. So, um, like kind of these plastic tiles, but very firm. It was just, it was nice. They didn't come through the floor. I might, I think it was just one rat really. This rat would come through the wall. There were these, basically the stones on my house were put together and held with this mud paste basically. And over the years it's starting to crumble. And so it was very easy for it to kind of dig its hole in there. And so in my two years, I had two moments, both at the same time, in like the fall time, when a rat would come into my house at night. And, um, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware that it was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:839", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.031369526410393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So by the time I arrived, I don't know, there was a very nice concrete floor and she had put tiles on it. So, um, like kind of these plastic tiles, but very firm. It was just, it was nice. They didn't come through the floor. I might, I think it was just one rat really. This rat would come through the wall. There were these, basically the stones on my house were put together and held with this mud paste basically. And over the years it's starting to crumble. And so it was very easy for it to kind of dig its hole in there. And so in my two years, I had two moments, both at the same time, in like the fall time, when a rat would come into my house at night. And, um, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you become aware that it was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I heard it, because my house is just one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is this room, by the way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:843", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.9769994153214725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How big is this room, by the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very big at all. It's a circle. It was just a circle. It was maybe ten feet in diameter, or 12 feet. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I definitely heard it. And I would wake up and turn on my light and there would be a rat looking at me, you know, from my table."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh. So what did you do? How did you deal with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:849", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2208496780815805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a process. I mean, I, uh, you know, and it was like psychological too, because every night it would come and destroy my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For like two weeks, you know, it would come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would destroy your house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:851", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6898329756462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For like two weeks, you know, it would come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would destroy your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he would come and he would eat my fruit, you know, that I had out. And it would come and dig in my drawers and, uh, yeah, just like run around. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, I tried a lot of things. I tried a lot of, I did a lot of research, you know, when I could get the internet and I would look at like, okay, peppermint repels rats. So I would get some peppermint tea and make peppermint tea. And then once it cooled down, put it around on the stones around my house. I tried filling in the cracks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:853", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.210925528495778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would destroy your house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he would come and he would eat my fruit, you know, that I had out. And it would come and dig in my drawers and, uh, yeah, just like run around. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, I tried a lot of things. I tried a lot of, I did a lot of research, you know, when I could get the internet and I would look at like, okay, peppermint repels rats. So I would get some peppermint tea and make peppermint tea. And then once it cooled down, put it around on the stones around my house. I tried filling in the cracks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I tried a lot of things. And the only thing that worked was I bought poison from basically a villager who I was complaining to, like I have this rat problem. I don't know what to do. And she said, oh, sister, I will get you the poison that you need. And she did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your host, did you confide in your host mother?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:857", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.433241393204664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I tried a lot of things. And the only thing that worked was I bought poison from basically a villager who I was complaining to, like I have this rat problem. I don't know what to do. And she said, oh, sister, I will get you the poison that you need. And she did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your host, did you confide in your host mother?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And but she didn't really, I don't think it was her that helped me out. I think it was a friend at school, one of my colleagues that told me, oh, I will, I will get you the things that you need. You know, this little sachet of poison, basically, that helped me get rid of my rat problem. So, um. But that was, that was, I don't know. That was hard. And I'm not a very squeamish person. But this, this like rat that kept coming in my house, it just felt like that was my safe space and I was no longer safe because I had this, this, this intruder every night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Devastating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:859", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.148045992449626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. And but she didn't really, I don't think it was her that helped me out. I think it was a friend at school, one of my colleagues that told me, oh, I will, I will get you the things that you need. You know, this little sachet of poison, basically, that helped me get rid of my rat problem. So, um. But that was, that was, I don't know. That was hard. And I'm not a very squeamish person. But this, this like rat that kept coming in my house, it just felt like that was my safe space and I was no longer safe because I had this, this, this intruder every night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Devastating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some celebration and some, some sort of party or acknowledgment that you had been there for two years and you were now leaving?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:861", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.942273324944029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there some celebration and some, some sort of party or acknowledgment that you had been there for two years and you were now leaving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was, um, I had two celebrations because I had two schools. There was a big, um, yep, a big party at both schools. It was lovely. You know, I had gifts given to me from the schools. We had food. There was dancing, you know, traditional dancing from the women. It was very nice. Very, very lovely, lovely parties. I mean, yeah, it was, it was very overwhelming. Such, all the gratitude from everyone.\n\nI have thought of two things that I, um, that were. One thing that was hard that I wanted to mention that I'm now remembering. And then another story that's an embarrassing story. And I feel like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No fear at all."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:883", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.583149175853658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we'd get there and they would spend their little money that they would bring on like chips and stuff like that. And fat, fat cakes, which is just fried dough, and all of these little treats and such. So anyways, it was just a grand old time for them. And you know, I also enjoyed going to them because it was really a bonding thing and you would go and support your school. Sometimes there were school t-shirts and you would go and cheer for your students. But sometimes it would also be very challenging because it would be an all-day affair. I mean, you would go there and you would not know when you were going to leave at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you were reliant on the school's public transportation. I mean, sorry, the school's transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And usually you would be there 9 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a big commitment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:885", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.092387973170731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you were reliant on the school's public transportation. I mean, sorry, the school's transportation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And usually you would be there 9 hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's a big commitment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big commitment. I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your day off."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:891", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.502589812305529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On your, right, it wasn't on your day off. It would be a school day. But still, it was just a very long day. And then you would be suddenly in this sea of people who didn't know who you were. And which is, I would be, you know, the only white person there at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I don't mind so much. Of course I don't mind, you know. But everybody else would just make a big show of it. Not, not everyone, but a lot of people would. And there was a lot of like leering and a lot of comments and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's uncomfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people get just, it's just very uncomfortable. Yeah. Which I could handle for maybe three hours, but 9 hours was just a very long time of, of handling this constant attention. So sometimes that was, that was hard. It was hard to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's reminding me of what you said in the very beginning, about in training, they put so much emphasis on safety."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:893", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.002877569228366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I don't mind so much. Of course I don't mind, you know. But everybody else would just make a big show of it. Not, not everyone, but a lot of people would. And there was a lot of like leering and a lot of comments and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's uncomfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of people get just, it's just very uncomfortable. Yeah. Which I could handle for maybe three hours, but 9 hours was just a very long time of, of handling this constant attention. So sometimes that was, that was hard. It was hard to deal with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's reminding me of what you said in the very beginning, about in training, they put so much emphasis on safety."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel safe in these situations? Were you ever in a, in an unsafe situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:899", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8626578453063996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I would feel safe because I was with my community and, I mean, that was really the main message that they were trying to say, was that you are put in these communities and not, you're not put into the capital city because, of course, the communities need you rather than the capital city. But also because it is very safe in the community. And you might feel like you don't have the resources that you would have in the capital city, but you are much safer in these small villages than you are ever in the capital city. Because it's small, people get to know you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People look out for you, I mean. And it's true. I had students that would accompany me around the scary dog that I would have to pass by every day. There was a bar in my village that would get all of those people that would come through on the main road, again, who didn't know who I was, and I would pass the bar just to go to school. And I would have my students accompany me sometimes because that was also kind of dangerous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, no, but in general, I mean, I felt very safe in my own village because I knew who everybody was. And at these events, it's never that I felt unsafe. I did not feel unsafe. It was just uncomfortable. But I was always with my colleagues and they really respected me and they understood. So yeah, they were very good to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there another one? I think you said there were two hard stories, about things being hard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:913", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.9639703817992515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, these, it's possible to make these things. The calendar was in French, so they learned like the French months just on their own, just looking at my calendar. And where is France and, okay, matching like the flags and all of the stuff. They were just very interested."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a wonderful moment, really working with kids who are tuning in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or just taking out a book and coming up to me and pointing at like jellyfish and being like, whoa, what is this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:915", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1821893131102796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or just taking out a book and coming up to me and pointing at like jellyfish and being like, whoa, what is this?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, or a kangaroo. They'd be like, whoa, what, oh, what is this weird animal? And I'd go, kangaroo, Australia. I'd point to the map. I would explain. It has a pouch, it puts its baby in there. These things that they had never seen before, and they just loved it so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are wonderful moments, being with a child who's filled with curiosity."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:917", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.424654792344755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, or a kangaroo. They'd be like, whoa, what, oh, what is this weird animal? And I'd go, kangaroo, Australia. I'd point to the map. I would explain. It has a pouch, it puts its baby in there. These things that they had never seen before, and they just loved it so much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those are wonderful moments, being with a child who's filled with curiosity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And brings the question to you. And you talk about it together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:921", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8822898670922903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And brings the question to you. And you talk about it together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And we'd talk in English. It was just great informal learning. And these were things that they were interested in. You know, I had one student one time. I mean, this was just, this was when I really didn't know what to say. He came and he said, madam, what would happen if a shark and a bear got into a fight? Who would win? And I love that question because there are no bears in Lesotho. There are no sharks in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No sharks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he just had this question on his own, you know, from reading books and looking at pictures and all of that and decided, okay. Sharks are like the main predator in the ocean. Bears are the main predator on land. If they got into a fight, who would win? And this is a ten year old boy and this is the same question that a ten year old boy here would ask, you know? Maybe not a teacher, but his friend or whoever. And he was so serious. And I was kind of laughing like, well, I don't know. And he was, he was like, but who would win? You know, looking into the answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must be an answer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:923", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0914331856581003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And we'd talk in English. It was just great informal learning. And these were things that they were interested in. You know, I had one student one time. I mean, this was just, this was when I really didn't know what to say. He came and he said, madam, what would happen if a shark and a bear got into a fight? Who would win? And I love that question because there are no bears in Lesotho. There are no sharks in Lesotho."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No sharks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he just had this question on his own, you know, from reading books and looking at pictures and all of that and decided, okay. Sharks are like the main predator in the ocean. Bears are the main predator on land. If they got into a fight, who would win? And this is a ten year old boy and this is the same question that a ten year old boy here would ask, you know? Maybe not a teacher, but his friend or whoever. And he was so serious. And I was kind of laughing like, well, I don't know. And he was, he was like, but who would win? You know, looking into the answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There must be an answer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I eventually, I think I said, well, you know, I guess it depends on where they're fighting, you know, the ocean, maybe the bear, the shark would win. On land, it might be the bear, I don't know. But these are the kinds of questions that they would come up with on their own that I loved. I would also see this, these kinds of questions I really saw the second year. I did, you know, a big part of Peace Corps Lesotho at least is HIV AIDS education, because it's very, very prevalent there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you discuss that in the primary schools?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:927", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5820162785902467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I eventually, I think I said, well, you know, I guess it depends on where they're fighting, you know, the ocean, maybe the bear, the shark would win. On land, it might be the bear, I don't know. But these are the kinds of questions that they would come up with on their own that I loved. I would also see this, these kinds of questions I really saw the second year. I did, you know, a big part of Peace Corps Lesotho at least is HIV AIDS education, because it's very, very prevalent there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you discuss that in the primary schools?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very fortunate that my schools gave me the okay to talk about these kinds of things. Of course, it's still elementary school so you want to, you know, kind of stick with the facts of course. I mean, I know I had friends who worked in the high school that would get all sorts of questions. But in primary school, of course, you just want to stick with like really the science of it all and all of that. But it's important. I mean, I was there saying, no, yeah, we have to talk about these things in elementary school. Some people I know, some staff members were saying, oh, it's, don't you think it's too early? And I would say, no, you have to. I mean, you really. It is very, one out of four people in the Lesotho has HIV so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One out of four?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:933", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5418604644585003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's huge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. We, that, that's what the statistic was when I was there. So we need to talk about it all the time with everyone and make this not a taboo anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:935", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.935400516065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. We, that, that's what the statistic was when I was there. So we need to talk about it all the time with everyone and make this not a taboo anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then when someone would pass away, no one ever said he would, they would pass away from AIDS. You know, it would be like, oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a taboo to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:937", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.372667240072222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And then when someone would pass away, no one ever said he would, they would pass away from AIDS. You know, it would be like, oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a taboo to them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Oh, he passed away, you know, from his heart or his stomach. Like no one, it was never clear what, what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that doesn't help with prevention."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:949", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9710903751728261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. What's your source? And that was a great question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Who told you that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I said, we can talk about this if you want after school. And we did. And, you know, I explained. Really it had been obviously a part of my Peace Corps orientation. In training we had a HIV AIDS coordinator, you know, who had all her resources from the World Health Organization and everything and all of that. So all of those resources. And I was able to talk with him and show him and explain that we have these organizations that measure these types of things, you know. And when you go to the clinic and you get tested, you get like part of this, you get placed on this, you know, percentage of people. Like I explained it to him who, and but the fact that he could understand what I was saying, and the gravity of what I was saying, was just a really. It was a, it was an important moment in my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, you never know really when you're when you're up there and you're talking about these things and you think, well, I'm trying to make it fun, but it's obviously really important. But I don't know if they know if it's important. And this, this culture, there's a taboo around it in this culture. I don't, I don't know if people are going to take any of what I'm saying. You know, who am I? I look so different from all these people and I'm only here two years and they're dealing with this. They've been dealing with this for generations. And who am I to come in and say, well, this and this and this? You know, it's just, it's hard to tell what people take away. But that was, um, that's something I'll always remember, that he could understand what I was saying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a wonderful thing to be able to take home with you, that you made a difference there, that, you know, that somebody woke up and asked good questions and you were there to give the answers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:961", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8272778637192577, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I felt like, well, of course I would have to learn the dialect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The local."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Local language, of course. But at least if I could speak the official language or whatnot, maybe that would be helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then Lesotho? English and Sesotho? I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the option of saying, no thank you, I'll wait until an invitation comes up for a French speaking country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:965", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.255898597184269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then Lesotho? English and Sesotho? I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have the option of saying, no thank you, I'll wait until an invitation comes up for a French speaking country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh, it was. Now it's different when you apply now. You actually get to select."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where you get to go, or you have a say in where you get to go. And that was not what it was like when I applied, which was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You either take it or you're, you're out."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:967", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3954428857602987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Uh, it was. Now it's different when you apply now. You actually get to select."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where you get to go, or you have a say in where you get to go. And that was not what it was like when I applied, which was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You either take it or you're, you're out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The past 50 years is kind of been this way of you, you allow someone else to choose for you based on your skills and what you have to offer and what you're willing to do, you know, in what sector you're going to work in, where you're going to go. And I just trusted. You know, I trusted the Peace Corps. I felt like I'd given everything in these interview sessions. I have told them everything about what I have to offer. And they're making a decision based on that information. And maybe, you know, I'm just going to go with it and I'm going to try. I mean, that's what anyone you can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now that you've, now that you've been in Lesotho as a volunteer for two years, do you regret having spent your time there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:975", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1268753021800006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, it's really, it's really fortunate in that way. And not, not that I'm trying to make it to any every country or anything, but to have this, this experience that I would not have otherwise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And being kind of this international person, I think I, I have that drive to travel and I have these major spoken languages under my wings that I can go and communicate. And so there's nothing holding me back really from doing that if I want to. But going into Lesotho to on my own, what would I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How would I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you wouldn't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:977", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3631947802000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And being kind of this international person, I think I, I have that drive to travel and I have these major spoken languages under my wings that I can go and communicate. And so there's nothing holding me back really from doing that if I want to. But going into Lesotho to on my own, what would I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How would I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you wouldn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wouldn't have done that on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd never, you'd never wind up there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:979", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6257719780000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How would I?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you wouldn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wouldn't have done that on my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd never, you'd never wind up there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The longer I was in Lesotho the more I was looking around my surroundings and thinking, thank goodness I was placed in this country. I mean, it was just things that after living there for a while I realized, you know, I really appreciate, you know, like that there's no malaria in this country, you know, which is not the reality for a lot of Peace Corps volunteers. Yeah, things like that. Or how kind my community is to me or to Americans. That was huge. And for me personally, I really, in my interview process I really stressed that I was concerned that I was going to go and teach English someplace. I did not want to be put as this person thrown into a country and just like, well, I'm here to do all English. And I was like, well, why? Well, because, you know, English is a very important language to know, to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Lesotho needs English."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:983", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2416938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The longer I was in Lesotho the more I was looking around my surroundings and thinking, thank goodness I was placed in this country. I mean, it was just things that after living there for a while I realized, you know, I really appreciate, you know, like that there's no malaria in this country, you know, which is not the reality for a lot of Peace Corps volunteers. Yeah, things like that. Or how kind my community is to me or to Americans. That was huge. And for me personally, I really, in my interview process I really stressed that I was concerned that I was going to go and teach English someplace. I did not want to be put as this person thrown into a country and just like, well, I'm here to do all English. And I was like, well, why? Well, because, you know, English is a very important language to know, to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But Lesotho needs English."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, that might not have English as an official language or be any near any other country that needs to learn English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:985", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6018820000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, that might not have English as an official language or be any near any other country that needs to learn English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's next? What are you doing now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:987", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8909800000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's next? What are you doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? Which school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:989", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's next? What are you doing now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? Which school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work in a Montessori school as a teacher's assistant. And of course, that's been very eye opening. I mean, you know, working in a school in Lesotho, quite different than working in a school in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure, sure. And do you think you might go to graduate school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:991", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You do? Which school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I work in a Montessori school as a teacher's assistant. And of course, that's been very eye opening. I mean, you know, working in a school in Lesotho, quite different than working in a school in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure, sure. And do you think you might go to graduate school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I intend to apply next fall for graduate schools. And actually, I'm looking to teaching ESL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. How about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00021:1003", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I, you know, I'm involved with the Return Peace Corps Volunteers of Madison, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, which is quite active and large. And it's, it's really lovely to be living here and to have that community group. They're kind of like family, because my family lives far away. So that's nice. Um. I've been working. Last October I did a TED Talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About my experiences in Lesotho and about the culture of community in particular that I witnessed in Lesotho, and how that, that it's very eye opening for someone that doesn't live in a culture that is so community driven all the time. So I did that. Yeah. And the next step is, is graduate school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For education, which I'm very excited about the next chapter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wish you well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 115.97674393327992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s always good to visit with you two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, we appreciate it. I like how you wore your [Expedition] shirt today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, you came prepared."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With my consulting company I’ve adopted this as the logo. This was actually one of my crew shirts from [International Space Station (ISS)] Expedition 12. This is the Roman numeral XII with the astronaut shooting star on it [demonstrates], which are a couple of elements from the Expedition 12 patch. It’s not the whole patch, but I was like, “Just put it on your business card.” And the name of my consulting firm is ISS12 Consulting, LLC. No one has sent me a cease and desist letter yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can’t imagine that they will."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 75, "return_to_go": 127.75193770364436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, you came prepared."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With my consulting company I’ve adopted this as the logo. This was actually one of my crew shirts from [International Space Station (ISS)] Expedition 12. This is the Roman numeral XII with the astronaut shooting star on it [demonstrates], which are a couple of elements from the Expedition 12 patch. It’s not the whole patch, but I was like, “Just put it on your business card.” And the name of my consulting firm is ISS12 Consulting, LLC. No one has sent me a cease and desist letter yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can’t imagine that they will."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyhow, the DOR [director of operations Russia] story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I thought that sounded like an interesting story we ought to cover."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.257018929900422, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had this access point at Star City, I used it in Baikonur, and I know it violated probably every security protocol in the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nobody called you on it though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think though later we figured out that keeping people connected is not a bad thing, and so eventually they, I think, provided internet connectivity to the rooms for the crewmembers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a good lesson learned you may have passed on. I know in previous interviews you’ve talked about flying in that left seat, but I wonder if you would talk about coming up on Station. How different it looked from the last time you were there, and what your memories are of docking and the events that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you can’t see much of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you can’t."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.841132144333802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I think though later we figured out that keeping people connected is not a bad thing, and so eventually they, I think, provided internet connectivity to the rooms for the crewmembers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably a good lesson learned you may have passed on. I know in previous interviews you’ve talked about flying in that left seat, but I wonder if you would talk about coming up on Station. How different it looked from the last time you were there, and what your memories are of docking and the events that happened."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you can’t see much of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you can’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all you see?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.712369049259777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, you can’t see much of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you can’t."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.90263227695531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.3362580855059, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s what you see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.92917565056211, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is a bell, there’s a ship’s bell on board. Part of the tradition is you ring the ship’s bell for a crew coming on board. While I was up there Bill Readdy retired, and so as a tribute to a friend of mine—albeit a Navy friend—I rang the ship’s bell to signal his departure from NASA, and he seemed to appreciate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he did. What sort of information did you get from the Expedition 11 crew? I know they stick around for a while."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.81019516729123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There is a bell, there’s a ship’s bell on board. Part of the tradition is you ring the ship’s bell for a crew coming on board. While I was up there Bill Readdy retired, and so as a tribute to a friend of mine—albeit a Navy friend—I rang the ship’s bell to signal his departure from NASA, and he seemed to appreciate that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure he did. What sort of information did you get from the Expedition 11 crew? I know they stick around for a while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They tell you a couple things. They’ll show you things that don’t work the way you think they will work based on your training on the ground. For example, there’s a device that’s used to get air that’s trapped in the water—to try to get that out. You want to minimize the bubbles that are in the water that would go into the device called Elektron, which would break water down to provide oxygen. It’s over in the Russian segment.\\n\\n Basically they give you an orientation on how things are laid out. When I give a presentation, I like to say that part of the handover is they show us where they’ve hidden all the good food. I mean they do. They talk about how the logistics are set up, because on the ground you don’t have dozens upon dozens of food containers, sort of briefcase, small-suitcase size containers with food in them.\\n\\n What they really show you are the ins and outs of habitability, because a lot of the equipment works the way you think it will, it just may not be where you think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that because crews have moved it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 50.631269090934474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s because it’s just limitations on the fidelity of the mockups. The U.S. mockups in particular, we do a lot of pictures. “Here’s a picture of this toolbox,” for example. You go train on the tool; you’ll see all the tools. You’ll see the toolbox, but it won’t be in the deck of the node. It may have a picture of it in the node deck, but that’s not really where it is. Or you look in the node and what you really have is the vestibule for one of the ports, but it’s full of stowage bags. Those are things that are not replicated on the ground. In particular, the stowage volume is at a premium onboard Station. As a matter of fact, there is a degree of chaos on orbit that you just cannot imagine until you’re there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think you had mentioned that the first Return to Flight [STS-114] just kind of threw everything in and you had to recover from that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh gosh, they did. At the very forward end of the U.S. Lab [Laboratory (Destiny module)], probably the L1 Soft Stowage Rack, it was completely covered with additional stowage bags on the outside. Part of the management issue was if you needed anything that was stowed in those lockers, you had to first remove all the individual stowage bags that were bungeed on the front."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then PMA [pressurized mating adapter]-1, there were a lot of small bags. It was like large bricks, more like cobblestones, just all placed around. And very artfully done, but it was interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read you were not guaranteed a seat coming back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 49.2779592911667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see. April, May, June, July—so it would have been another three months. There would have been problems with that. If we couldn’t do that, that means Jeff Williams could not have come up on the Soyuz. I guess what the Russians would have done is probably sent three people up. I would have stayed up with Pavel [V.] Vinogradov, and Marcos [C.] Pontes and then maybe one Russian would have come back with Valery."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you concerned at all when you launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. I kind of thought it was funny. I was less worried about staying up for a longer period of time than I was not having the closure of coming back with Valery. We had trained to go up together, we had trained to be there together, we had trained to return together. So I would have been disappointed not to have had that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You commanded this mission. I wanted to ask if you would talk about being commander of the Expedition and what it entailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it entailed some level of decision-making, certainly. But if you look at it, the Russians really looked to Valery to make decisions related to the Russian segment and Russian issues. Yes, I was ISS commander and NASA science officer—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 53.64217699018523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. I kind of thought it was funny. I was less worried about staying up for a longer period of time than I was not having the closure of coming back with Valery. We had trained to go up together, we had trained to be there together, we had trained to return together. So I would have been disappointed not to have had that experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You commanded this mission. I wanted to ask if you would talk about being commander of the Expedition and what it entailed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it entailed some level of decision-making, certainly. But if you look at it, the Russians really looked to Valery to make decisions related to the Russian segment and Russian issues. Yes, I was ISS commander and NASA science officer—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask about that, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—but Valery and I were partners in this whole thing. I took the lead for anything related to the U.S. segment. I was the lead for anything that we did here in the States. Similarly, Valery really was the one the Russians looked to for the more critical activities on the Russian segment, and certainly for what we did in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you talk about how much time you spent doing things like housekeeping, maintenance, science?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.921891062415657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just fine; it was just fine. There may have been certain things that I particularly was fond of that they had less of, but it was good. One thing is [Sergei K.] Krikalev had gotten a lot of fruit punch. I don’t think he was very interested in what he selected on his U.S. menu, so there was just a lot of fruit punch. This is that red bug juice-type punch. I didn’t care for that at all, but they also had a lot of Kona coffee. I had put no Kona coffee in my menu selection, so I really enjoyed [it]. That was an upside of having their food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m going to read this quote. One article I read said you had “a reputation for both tidiness and an eagerness to communicate” with the public. I wondered if you would talk about that, and where the reputation for tidiness came from."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure. Any locker I opened—and there were a lot. I mentioned that when STS-114 left they just stuffed things wherever they could. I did try very hard—anytime I accessed a storage location, if it was disorganized I tried to leave it better than I found it. I don’t know, I guess somebody somewhere picked up on that, maybe because I’d open it up and complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure if that meant you did a lot of media interviews and people were happy about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.91321229157295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure. Any locker I opened—and there were a lot. I mentioned that when STS-114 left they just stuffed things wherever they could. I did try very hard—anytime I accessed a storage location, if it was disorganized I tried to leave it better than I found it. I don’t know, I guess somebody somewhere picked up on that, maybe because I’d open it up and complain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wasn’t sure if that meant you did a lot of media interviews and people were happy about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what a lot or a little would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s hard to quantify, you’re right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.014680323969944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what a lot or a little would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s hard to quantify, you’re right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read that your mission got extended by a week."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 33.34964480441105, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know what a lot or a little would be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s hard to quantify, you’re right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read that your mission got extended by a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why another week and a half?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.944049782678942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had read that your mission got extended by a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why another week and a half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like 189 days and something. I thought, “Surely we can get to 200 days,” but no. As it was, we landed about an hour before sunrise. Every day that passes, essentially your orbit moves 23 minutes earlier. So if we had delayed another 10 days, that would have been nearly four hours—230 minutes, four hours—so now we would have been landing really like two in the morning.\\n\\n The downside of that is if there’s a downmode in the landing and you do a ballistic entry, that puts you, I want to say, 250 miles uprange. That now means the search and rescue forces are trying to find you—there are hours of darkness that they would have to search in if they’re trying to get to you right away. I think the Russians wouldn’t have been real pleased with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your wife think when you told her, “I’m going to be in space a little longer than you anticipated”?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.271166425198825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why another week and a half?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like 189 days and something. I thought, “Surely we can get to 200 days,” but no. As it was, we landed about an hour before sunrise. Every day that passes, essentially your orbit moves 23 minutes earlier. So if we had delayed another 10 days, that would have been nearly four hours—230 minutes, four hours—so now we would have been landing really like two in the morning.\\n\\n The downside of that is if there’s a downmode in the landing and you do a ballistic entry, that puts you, I want to say, 250 miles uprange. That now means the search and rescue forces are trying to find you—there are hours of darkness that they would have to search in if they’re trying to get to you right away. I think the Russians wouldn’t have been real pleased with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your wife think when you told her, “I’m going to be in space a little longer than you anticipated”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think they told us early enough so that it wasn’t like, “Hey, instead of being home in four weeks I’ll be home in five weeks.” I think [I said], “Instead of the 31st of March or the 1st of April it’s going to be the 8th of April.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One thing we didn’t talk about is getting ready for the next increment. What sort of things did you have to do in preparation for their arrival?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.483801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I used my American Express while I was actually on orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Have I mentioned listening to this Cajun radio program on orbit?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a public radio station so they don’t do commercials, they just operate based on donations. Generally when they’re doing a fund drive they’ll do it over two weekends. I’m listening to it early one week, and they’ve just started the fund drive, so the next Saturday I call down and make a donation and charge it to my Amex. So yes, I actually was able to use a credit card in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never would have thought that. I would have thought that you would have been completely, I guess, cut off, not using your credit cards."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.87089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Have I mentioned listening to this Cajun radio program on orbit?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a public radio station so they don’t do commercials, they just operate based on donations. Generally when they’re doing a fund drive they’ll do it over two weekends. I’m listening to it early one week, and they’ve just started the fund drive, so the next Saturday I call down and make a donation and charge it to my Amex. So yes, I actually was able to use a credit card in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never would have thought that. I would have thought that you would have been completely, I guess, cut off, not using your credit cards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I had was an application, I think on my computer, which included all my credit cards—the card numbers, the security codes, expiration dates, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good idea. I doubt you had a wallet with you, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.412099999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a public radio station so they don’t do commercials, they just operate based on donations. Generally when they’re doing a fund drive they’ll do it over two weekends. I’m listening to it early one week, and they’ve just started the fund drive, so the next Saturday I call down and make a donation and charge it to my Amex. So yes, I actually was able to use a credit card in space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I never would have thought that. I would have thought that you would have been completely, I guess, cut off, not using your credit cards."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I had was an application, I think on my computer, which included all my credit cards—the card numbers, the security codes, expiration dates, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good idea. I doubt you had a wallet with you, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have a wallet with me, that’s true. Didn’t have a passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose you didn’t really need a passport, did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.568999999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I had was an application, I think on my computer, which included all my credit cards—the card numbers, the security codes, expiration dates, all those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good idea. I doubt you had a wallet with you, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have a wallet with me, that’s true. Didn’t have a passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose you didn’t really need a passport, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn’t. I don’t remember what we did for the Space Station flight, because I had to have my passport while I was in Russia. For Shuttle missions though there was a group over in FOD [Flight Operations Directorate] that, before you would launch, they would have a couple changes of clothes for you. There would be one that would go to Florida; there would be another change that could go to California if you went there.\\n\\n I think if you landed somewhere other than California or Florida they would grab one of those sets of clothes to go there. They would have your passport, because of course the transoceanic abort landings, you could have landed in Spain, you could have landed in Africa. Part of the immediate response team would go there with your passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.41, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not have a wallet with me, that’s true. Didn’t have a passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I suppose you didn’t really need a passport, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You didn’t. I don’t remember what we did for the Space Station flight, because I had to have my passport while I was in Russia. For Shuttle missions though there was a group over in FOD [Flight Operations Directorate] that, before you would launch, they would have a couple changes of clothes for you. There would be one that would go to Florida; there would be another change that could go to California if you went there.\\n\\n I think if you landed somewhere other than California or Florida they would grab one of those sets of clothes to go there. They would have your passport, because of course the transoceanic abort landings, you could have landed in Spain, you could have landed in Africa. Part of the immediate response team would go there with your passport."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a book. I want to say it was called Shuttle Down [by Lee Corey]. It was about a Space Shuttle that did an abort landing somewhere on an island in the Pacific [Ocean], and that was one of the issues they had to deal with, these crewmembers not having their passports with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably not something you put in the middeck locker. How long did it take you to get acclimated to being back on gravity, on terra firma?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, it was very formal. They had their band out. I’m trying to remember if they have some of their troops marching as well. You put flowers at Gagarin’s statue and then go to the House of the Cosmonauts, which is an auditorium and a museum. It’s got an office there—was it Gagarin’s office? Maybe. Before you fly there’s a book there that you write a message in and sign.\\n\\n At the ceremony you get presented a lot of mementos, get to make a few remarks. I made a few remarks in particular directed at my Russian teacher. Like many languages, there’s a formal way of addressing people and a familiar way to address people in Russian. She had told me how to ask to begin addressing someone in the familiar, using familiar pronouns. I don’t know if I actually asked her at that time, or I just said it, but her response [was], “Well, no. I’m the teacher and you’re the student, so can’t do it now.” So that was one of the things I asked when I gave my remarks. I asked her if we could now start using the familiar to talk to each other. She was a good—I hope she still lives. She was a good teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any lessons learned that you passed along from your increment to future crews or to the Station Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure there were. It was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it doesn’t seem that long ago, but it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does when I try to start remembering details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, I think you’ve done a great job. We spent a lot of time talking about all this."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure there were. It was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know it doesn’t seem that long ago, but it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does when I try to start remembering details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, I think you’ve done a great job. We spent a lot of time talking about all this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think what I did more than anything else is I tried really hard to help people who were just starting to go to Russia and start training, to share the things that I had done to adjust to living in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give a couple of examples?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00394:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does when I try to start remembering details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, I think you’ve done a great job. We spent a lot of time talking about all this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think what I did more than anything else is I tried really hard to help people who were just starting to go to Russia and start training, to share the things that I had done to adjust to living in Russia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give a couple of examples?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things about shopping and how to travel. Things that I found, what I did for relaxation or adventure. If you’re going to jog, where the holes in the fence are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think this might be a good place for us to stop and then we can pick it up next time. We still have a few more years left. Thanks for coming."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.919164988497755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's pretty much how I—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How you came here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—came here. I got into that field of mathematics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your husband transferred out here or did he get a job out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He got out of service when—his parents lived here, so when he got out of service, we decided to move here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a change for you, coming from the South, going all the way to Ohio. Was the feeling any different here than it was in Alabama?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.132405542775283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—came here. I got into that field of mathematics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your husband transferred out here or did he get a job out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He got out of service when—his parents lived here, so when he got out of service, we decided to move here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a change for you, coming from the South, going all the way to Ohio. Was the feeling any different here than it was in Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, people are people wherever you are, so I didn't find that it was that great of a—I guess I don't understand what you mean about a different feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know for me, I mean, being basically a Southerner, and when I go other places, sometimes the people are a little different, different places you live."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.369339491972536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. He got out of service when—his parents lived here, so when he got out of service, we decided to move here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a change for you, coming from the South, going all the way to Ohio. Was the feeling any different here than it was in Alabama?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I mean, people are people wherever you are, so I didn't find that it was that great of a—I guess I don't understand what you mean about a different feeling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know for me, I mean, being basically a Southerner, and when I go other places, sometimes the people are a little different, different places you live."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, I will say that not just the people here, but I think I fell into it myself. We were not as friendly. And I don't mean to say real hostile. But when I grew up, if you walked six blocks to the streetcar, you spoke to everybody in every house, or who's on the porch. But we didn't tend to do that here. It was just a different style of living; people did things differently. And I think we were more involved in our own personal things than the rest of the neighborhood.\\n\\n I went to work every day, I went home. My days were filled up. It was a different thing than when I had grown up. I had been a child in school. So it was a whole different thing. And now married, and so I can't say it's just the location. My life had changed from being—I went from being high school, college, and then a married woman, so all of those changes were taking place. But I don't blame it so much, or say, \"Oh, gosh, it was because I was in a different city.\" I think it's like traveling other places. We live differently in different places, but it's not a negative. You adapt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you choose pharmacy at first when you went away?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.432768620595237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was raised by a single parent. My mother was my greatest role model. She still is. My mother always told me—I can hear her tapes being played in my mind forever. But my mother always told me, \"You can be anything you want to be, but you have to work at it.\" She encouraged me daily. I'm so grateful that I had my mother as a mother. I have friends who feel that way about my mother. There was always encouragement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She encouraged everyone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the bit of telling me, \"You can be anything you want to. It doesn't matter what you look like, what your size is, what your color is. You can be anything you want to, but you do have to work at it.\" And I still believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very true."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.03640957843915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She really did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But the bit of telling me, \"You can be anything you want to. It doesn't matter what you look like, what your size is, what your color is. You can be anything you want to, but you do have to work at it.\" And I still believe that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So she was my biggest cheerleader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. Were you good at math in high school? Was that something you were interested in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.5845291547617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So to see her happy, to take a good grade home. But I did have a lot of trouble with having to stay after school because I sometimes talked, I expressed my opinion. I think it was called \"talking back.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She encouraged you to be an independent thinker also, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not to be disrespectful, and I didn't talk back to be disrespectful, but if I had an opinion, I expressed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you an only child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had an older brother. He was six years older, but being six years older and being a male, we were pretty much—you know, I can say I was pretty much raised alone, because by the time I was twelve, he was eighteen years old and on his own. So I was raised pretty much alone, as an only child. But no, I did have an older brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came to Cleveland, you decided that school at that point was out of the question because it was too far away, and you said you just heard about the NACA, and read about it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.76058794973522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not to be disrespectful, and I didn't talk back to be disrespectful, but if I had an opinion, I expressed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you an only child?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had an older brother. He was six years older, but being six years older and being a male, we were pretty much—you know, I can say I was pretty much raised alone, because by the time I was twelve, he was eighteen years old and on his own. So I was raised pretty much alone, as an only child. But no, I did have an older brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came to Cleveland, you decided that school at that point was out of the question because it was too far away, and you said you just heard about the NACA, and read about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read about it. There was an article in the local paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And decided it sounded like an interesting job. Did you have any expectations about that job already, other than what was in the article, or when they interviewed you or told you about the job, when you actually started work, were you surprised at what you were doing? I guess, like we were talking about before we started, how no one really knows that NASA or NACA was here, it was all—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.178431055261356, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had an older brother. He was six years older, but being six years older and being a male, we were pretty much—you know, I can say I was pretty much raised alone, because by the time I was twelve, he was eighteen years old and on his own. So I was raised pretty much alone, as an only child. But no, I did have an older brother."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came to Cleveland, you decided that school at that point was out of the question because it was too far away, and you said you just heard about the NACA, and read about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read about it. There was an article in the local paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And decided it sounded like an interesting job. Did you have any expectations about that job already, other than what was in the article, or when they interviewed you or told you about the job, when you actually started work, were you surprised at what you were doing? I guess, like we were talking about before we started, how no one really knows that NASA or NACA was here, it was all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't know that it was here until I read the—I'd never heard of it until I read the article, but it was such an article that the things that were described, the work that was being done by those sisters, those twin sisters, those computers, the people called computers, it was very interesting to me. It was something that I had a real interest in doing, and I was not disappointed when I came out, when I had the interview, and when I started to work. I just thoroughly enjoyed it and I enjoyed my career here at NASA, at NACA, and to see it become what we were, and the many changes that were made. But no, the job as I saw it, the work, as I encountered, there were no disappointments, ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a computer?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.86492339473484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I read about it. There was an article in the local paper."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And decided it sounded like an interesting job. Did you have any expectations about that job already, other than what was in the article, or when they interviewed you or told you about the job, when you actually started work, were you surprised at what you were doing? I guess, like we were talking about before we started, how no one really knows that NASA or NACA was here, it was all—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't know that it was here until I read the—I'd never heard of it until I read the article, but it was such an article that the things that were described, the work that was being done by those sisters, those twin sisters, those computers, the people called computers, it was very interesting to me. It was something that I had a real interest in doing, and I was not disappointed when I came out, when I had the interview, and when I started to work. I just thoroughly enjoyed it and I enjoyed my career here at NASA, at NACA, and to see it become what we were, and the many changes that were made. But no, the job as I saw it, the work, as I encountered, there were no disappointments, ever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a computer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a computer at first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe what your job was when you first started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.03639925271358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Propulsion lab, at the time, and then someone by the name of George [W.] Lewis, I think he was one of the first directors or the first director, and it was eventually named for him. I must add, one of the great things about working here at NACA and NASA was the depth of talent that you were surrounded with, and that was not just the scientific talent, but it's just a broad spectrum. Being so self-contained, we were like our own little world, because we had our own print shop, our own photographers. Of course, our security forces. We had our own firemen. Anything we wanted, we could pull on it from right inside. It was like our own city. There are quite few acres out here. It's a large facility, but if you drive down the main road, you just don't realize it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you land, it's hard to miss it because of the hangar. That's the first thing I noticed when I landed, was the hangar."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to have our own planes here, too. We did. But being right adjacent to Hopkins Airport makes it real convenient for the location of where we are located. So it's an ideal location also, as you can tell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very convenient. You mentioned your supervisor. Who was your supervisor when you first started, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine Truax. Christine Truax was my first supervisor, back in 1955. Yes, I do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a large group of computers or were you a relatively small group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.373776947459532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We used to have our own planes here, too. We did. But being right adjacent to Hopkins Airport makes it real convenient for the location of where we are located. So it's an ideal location also, as you can tell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's very convenient. You mentioned your supervisor. Who was your supervisor when you first started, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine Truax. Christine Truax was my first supervisor, back in 1955. Yes, I do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a large group of computers or were you a relatively small group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, there were three different groups throughout the lab. We were in Building 49. There was another group, I think, in the building that we called the 8 x 6 [Supersonic Wind Tunnel], and Christine had two groups. Christine had another group of computers located in, oh, gosh, I think it was called CNT or ERB [Engine Research Building]. There were a total of three groups of computers, people computers, throughout the lab at the time, and all doing very similar work, but on different projects.\\n\\n And, as I said, besides that, we'd get the data, we'd plot the data by hand or we'd read strip charts that have come off equipment. There was just the various things that we did. We were called computers, officially, until the machines started to come in. So to distinguish us from the machines, the machines were the computers and we were given titles as mathematics technicians or mathematicians. And I don't remember the year that happened or the years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a gradual process."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.748641052732813, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Christine Truax. Christine Truax was my first supervisor, back in 1955. Yes, I do remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a large group of computers or were you a relatively small group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, there were three different groups throughout the lab. We were in Building 49. There was another group, I think, in the building that we called the 8 x 6 [Supersonic Wind Tunnel], and Christine had two groups. Christine had another group of computers located in, oh, gosh, I think it was called CNT or ERB [Engine Research Building]. There were a total of three groups of computers, people computers, throughout the lab at the time, and all doing very similar work, but on different projects.\\n\\n And, as I said, besides that, we'd get the data, we'd plot the data by hand or we'd read strip charts that have come off equipment. There was just the various things that we did. We were called computers, officially, until the machines started to come in. So to distinguish us from the machines, the machines were the computers and we were given titles as mathematics technicians or mathematicians. And I don't remember the year that happened or the years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a gradual process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not the only computers in the world. Recently, I was on a program with some people from, I think they were from Pennsylvania someplace. But these women had been computers some place in Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As part of this project, we've interviewed some ladies at Dryden [Flight Research Center]—that were computers at Dryden, from [Edwards] California."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.165156725258681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, there were three different groups throughout the lab. We were in Building 49. There was another group, I think, in the building that we called the 8 x 6 [Supersonic Wind Tunnel], and Christine had two groups. Christine had another group of computers located in, oh, gosh, I think it was called CNT or ERB [Engine Research Building]. There were a total of three groups of computers, people computers, throughout the lab at the time, and all doing very similar work, but on different projects.\\n\\n And, as I said, besides that, we'd get the data, we'd plot the data by hand or we'd read strip charts that have come off equipment. There was just the various things that we did. We were called computers, officially, until the machines started to come in. So to distinguish us from the machines, the machines were the computers and we were given titles as mathematics technicians or mathematicians. And I don't remember the year that happened or the years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a gradual process."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not the only computers in the world. Recently, I was on a program with some people from, I think they were from Pennsylvania someplace. But these women had been computers some place in Pennsylvania."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As part of this project, we've interviewed some ladies at Dryden [Flight Research Center]—that were computers at Dryden, from [Edwards] California."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they were in Pennsylvania. Well, our worlds are only so big. The only computers I knew of were the ones here, until last year. I met these women who had been computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were working, did you work as a team with the engineer or the scientist doing the work? Did you work usually on a project specifically with them, throughout that project, or was it just, whenever they needed something, they'd send it in to like a pool, and you would work on different things on different days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.826760739711933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we know we have to live. I'm still around. I'm enjoying myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And you put in a lot of years here, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was here for thirty-four years. And as I said, I have more good memories than bad, but I don't forget the real life, what really happened. Because in keeping with that, in later years, they started to interview—I guess they had personnel interviewing some of the minority workers, and because a group had gone together to talk to management about what the feelings were, but I didn't happen to be a part of the group. I just wasn't at that time. But I was the one that management chose to have them interview, and I mentioned the story of being cut out of the picture, and the interviewer said to me, about that picture-cutting incident, he says, \"Well, Annie, at that time there was no one to complain to.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's true. At that time there really wasn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's too bad, but the problem is, some of those people stayed around for a long time, and some of their behavior was passed on to other people. I think of the poem, \"Mother to Son.\" [by Langston Hughes] \"Life for me ain't been no crystal stair” but you got to keep struggling. You keep going because you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that early time, when you first started working, and then in 1957, of course, Sputnik went up, and the whole emphasis changed in this country and they formed NASA. Here, at the Research Center, you went under NASA. Was there a general feeling of, now we've got to head down this path, we're going into space, we're going to be a part of that? How did it affect the people here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.251956377457702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was here for thirty-four years. And as I said, I have more good memories than bad, but I don't forget the real life, what really happened. Because in keeping with that, in later years, they started to interview—I guess they had personnel interviewing some of the minority workers, and because a group had gone together to talk to management about what the feelings were, but I didn't happen to be a part of the group. I just wasn't at that time. But I was the one that management chose to have them interview, and I mentioned the story of being cut out of the picture, and the interviewer said to me, about that picture-cutting incident, he says, \"Well, Annie, at that time there was no one to complain to.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's true. At that time there really wasn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's too bad, but the problem is, some of those people stayed around for a long time, and some of their behavior was passed on to other people. I think of the poem, \"Mother to Son.\" [by Langston Hughes] \"Life for me ain't been no crystal stair” but you got to keep struggling. You keep going because you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that early time, when you first started working, and then in 1957, of course, Sputnik went up, and the whole emphasis changed in this country and they formed NASA. Here, at the Research Center, you went under NASA. Was there a general feeling of, now we've got to head down this path, we're going into space, we're going to be a part of that? How did it affect the people here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were proud and we still are. I say \"we.\" I still talk in the present. I retired a few years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're still part of it, though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.946618197175223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's too bad, but the problem is, some of those people stayed around for a long time, and some of their behavior was passed on to other people. I think of the poem, \"Mother to Son.\" [by Langston Hughes] \"Life for me ain't been no crystal stair” but you got to keep struggling. You keep going because you want to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that early time, when you first started working, and then in 1957, of course, Sputnik went up, and the whole emphasis changed in this country and they formed NASA. Here, at the Research Center, you went under NASA. Was there a general feeling of, now we've got to head down this path, we're going into space, we're going to be a part of that? How did it affect the people here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were proud and we still are. I say \"we.\" I still talk in the present. I retired a few years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're still part of it, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a real pride in being able to have talent, resources, and knowing that we could get in here and really, really do something great. I mean, the work that we had been doing here had been not known. Not publicly, but there was a lot of research going on with the quiet, the jet, the pollution. A lot of stuff was going on, but when we became a part of the space effort, there was a real jump in there and we're going to do it.\\n\\n Remember what I said earlier about teamwork? I think as a whole, it was \"Jump in there. We can do it.\" And it's, again, part of that being so grateful to have seen all the things we can do, and the changes, from where we went and where we were as to where we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a rise in the number of people working here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.718464663528025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were proud and we still are. I say \"we.\" I still talk in the present. I retired a few years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're still part of it, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a real pride in being able to have talent, resources, and knowing that we could get in here and really, really do something great. I mean, the work that we had been doing here had been not known. Not publicly, but there was a lot of research going on with the quiet, the jet, the pollution. A lot of stuff was going on, but when we became a part of the space effort, there was a real jump in there and we're going to do it.\\n\\n Remember what I said earlier about teamwork? I think as a whole, it was \"Jump in there. We can do it.\" And it's, again, part of that being so grateful to have seen all the things we can do, and the changes, from where we went and where we were as to where we went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you see a rise in the number of people working here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we had a great surge in employment. A lot of people were hired to come in. Not just the fresh out of college, but a lot of people from other companies who were already seasoned, and other companies. So yes, our complement went up greatly. We may have gone up from, oh, gosh, maybe 2,500, 2,000-something, to maybe 5,000, at one time. We also have the Plum Brook facility, out in Sandusky [Ohio] where our nuclear reactor was. But yes, employment went up greatly, and everyone pitches in, everyone does a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about some of those specific projects, maybe, that you were working on there in the late fifties, early sixties, when the space program was just taking off?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.074711472603596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh, it's been so long. I can't remember all that. [Laughter] Really, I have to really go back in my memory bank to say, \"What did we work on?\"\\n\\n I remember working on the simulator. We were simulating certain conditions for building the reactor out in Plum Brook, and that was, you know, how much cement do you need to pour, those kinds of things. That was in the late fifties. I remember working on that. If I'd known I had to remember this, I would have probably called up my memory bank last night.\\n\\n I think now I'm almost into the seventies. We had some tests going on with putting up tapes on a jet plane to record some of the ozone to see, and come back and analyze that kind of thing, you know, what damage we're doing to our ozone layer. During the later years, I was working in software engineering and we worked in an area called the launch vehicles. I've worked on several different things throughout the years here, but we would work on some of the launches. We'd do the Shuttle launches or a lot of the launches down at—we'd go down to [Cape] Canaveral [Florida] with some of the unmanned launches."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on any of the projects around the Centaur rockets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because I think that—I better not try and recall exactly, but I think Abe Silverstein brought that here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what I found in the research, that Abe—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Abe Silverstein brought that project here, and eventually we had a hand in working Centaur. That's after I had gone into the—oh, gosh, what group was I in then? Launch Vehicles group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, President Kennedy, in 1961, made that commitment to go to the moon. Was there a great excitement here, after that announcement, knowing that you were working on—or, I believe he brought the Centaur here after that, but once that started coming in, knowing that those rockets were going to have something to do with those plans."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.702717076652387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Math, yes. Mathematics."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which university?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cleveland State, in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having the degree, did that affect your job in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a strange thing, because I was considered a subprofessional without the degree, and then when I got the degree, in order to become a professional, I had to take more classes. It was someone's opinion. Because again, you're working with people who decide what should or should not be done. If there was someone who would have said, \"Okay, you have your degree.” If you'd come in here as a new hire with a degree, you would be hired as a professional. You would be. You come in, you have a math degree, you're a professional. I was already here and they decided I needed X number of hours of training to be considered a professional. They really and truly did. That's what I meant about some of these things are subtle, but why would I need those extra hours? I have all of this experience, I now have the education, but the people in personnel, or in training, said, or someone said—I don't know who the powers-that-be were, but you've got to have X number of hours of training to be considered a professional. But it's okay. I took the courses. In fact, I went to Houston and took one. Yes, I think that one kind of—yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were NASA-sponsored courses?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.003018974058207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cleveland State, in Cleveland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Having the degree, did that affect your job in any way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a strange thing, because I was considered a subprofessional without the degree, and then when I got the degree, in order to become a professional, I had to take more classes. It was someone's opinion. Because again, you're working with people who decide what should or should not be done. If there was someone who would have said, \"Okay, you have your degree.” If you'd come in here as a new hire with a degree, you would be hired as a professional. You would be. You come in, you have a math degree, you're a professional. I was already here and they decided I needed X number of hours of training to be considered a professional. They really and truly did. That's what I meant about some of these things are subtle, but why would I need those extra hours? I have all of this experience, I now have the education, but the people in personnel, or in training, said, or someone said—I don't know who the powers-that-be were, but you've got to have X number of hours of training to be considered a professional. But it's okay. I took the courses. In fact, I went to Houston and took one. Yes, I think that one kind of—yes, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And these were NASA-sponsored courses?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I chose that course. They paid for it. I paid for my undergraduate education, and I don't even need to get into that. I paid for my own education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they pay for anybody's education? Was that a program in place at that time, that they would pay for people to go back to school?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.55288728957345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was programming in FORTRAN. That's the language that we used when we did the code, yes. That was the FORTRAN programming, and that I used for years and years and years. I guess the COBAL was more our business side, of the people who did the business side of it. But the scientific world out here, we used mostly FORTRAN. I know there are a lot of different ones now that are used, but I didn't get into those. They came kind of after I had left. But FORTRAN was the one that we used mostly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In some of the research, I saw that one of your assignments included studies to determine the life and use of storage batteries. Can you talk about that a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have a battery lab here where they did do research on batteries, and I was doing some of the computations with that. And batteries, like to use in a battery-powered vehicle, we would run studies on that. In fact, we used to have a little battery-powered car that they drove around. But we did research on that also, the computations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now some of these vehicles are starting to appear in the real world, the ones that are the, what do they call them, hybrids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hybrids. There's one—I know someone here has one. I think it's a Honda. He has a Honda. He works out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chrysler is working on one, I know, too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.058763655081613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We have a battery lab here where they did do research on batteries, and I was doing some of the computations with that. And batteries, like to use in a battery-powered vehicle, we would run studies on that. In fact, we used to have a little battery-powered car that they drove around. But we did research on that also, the computations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, now some of these vehicles are starting to appear in the real world, the ones that are the, what do they call them, hybrids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hybrids. There's one—I know someone here has one. I think it's a Honda. He has a Honda. He works out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Chrysler is working on one, I know, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, he does have one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How does that make you feel? I mean, because you were working on that project, so that was probably from the early work."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.8487276199646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I mean, I did more—I can remember checking someone's technical report when I wasn't supposed to, but I did not do a lot of report-writing. No, that was not a part of my—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever listed on any of them as contributor or author?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was listed on something years and years ago and I don't even remember the name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the reports and being listed as an author or not [before the break]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember any specific ones, I really don't, because I didn't do a lot of report-writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know while you were at Lewis—and it was, what, thirty-four years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.49858624440511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was listed on something years and years ago and I don't even remember the name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the reports and being listed as an author or not [before the break]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember any specific ones, I really don't, because I didn't do a lot of report-writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know while you were at Lewis—and it was, what, thirty-four years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a lot of changes and we talked a little bit about the technology, the social changes, as far as the family feeling at the beginning and the group activities that you were involved in. The last years you were there, were those kind of things going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 16.109540271561237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember any specific ones, I really don't, because I didn't do a lot of report-writing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know while you were at Lewis—and it was, what, thirty-four years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-four years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a lot of changes and we talked a little bit about the technology, the social changes, as far as the family feeling at the beginning and the group activities that you were involved in. The last years you were there, were those kind of things going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were still the same kinds of things. There were still the family, the employees' picnics, and the division picnics. Those things were still going on when I left, and before I left here, one of the things I had done is, I had started to ski, and we formed a ski club. The club is still here, still going strong, and that became like one of the big social outlets. We started it as a ski club, but we learned that we had so much fun doing it—we started with eight people in January of [19] '79 and by February we were up to twenty, and within a couple of years, we were up to 200. But we did more than just ski, because someone said, oh, let's go—in the summertime, let's go canoeing or let's go whitewater rafting. We even took city trips to different places in the summertime, so you didn't have to be a skier to enjoy the club, and I think people joined it for the social bit. But we have all kinds of activities. They always had all kinds. The chess club, the camera club. I guess, the latest I heard of out here now was the hot pepper club. I don't know exactly what's going on now, but when I left here there was still the different activities, where people could, of like-minded things, they could get together and do them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned some of the departments you worked in. Did you move to different departments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.770288438355605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I started, I was in the Computer Services Division, when I started here in 1955. In the late seventies, I moved over to the Energy Directorate, and then somewhere in the eighties is when I went to Launch Vehicles. Then we joined the Engineering Directorate, that is where I was when I retired. I was in different buildings. I guess I just mentioned about four different groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you move for promotions or were there reorganizations going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I got my degree, I moved into the Energy Directorate. It was either move or leave, and I really was on my way leaving because they told me there was absolutely no place I could go and I was going to go elsewhere, and then I was asked to interview with someone in the Energy Directorate, and I chose to go there. When I moved again, it was because they were looking for more people in the Launch Vehicles Group. And actually, that's the only other one I went to. The name changed on that from Launch Vehicles to Engineering Directorate. But no, I did not go because there were promotions. I, personally, I think, only made those three changes, because the promotions just weren't always there. They just didn't exist. I would really have loved to have moved for promotions, but that's not the way it really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like any of it was related to the field you were in, or do you feel it was more a race or sex issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's put it this way. I don't think it was the field I was in. I guess I just didn't fit someone's requirements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were working in a field that wasn't traditionally a female—I think the computers, traditionally, were female, which I find interesting, because math and science isn't something that girls were supposed to be good in, but the field itself was more of a female-type field. Were there other men working with you in—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.531220294266179, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's put it this way. I don't think it was the field I was in. I guess I just didn't fit someone's requirements."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were working in a field that wasn't traditionally a female—I think the computers, traditionally, were female, which I find interesting, because math and science isn't something that girls were supposed to be good in, but the field itself was more of a female-type field. Were there other men working with you in—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the beginning, when I started, in my group, there was one male, but in the other groups, there may have been males already. And as the time went on, lots and lots of males came into the field. I don't know why. I will tell you, I thought maybe it was because it was a tedious-type work. It was repetitious in the beginning, the work that we did. When you are recording numbers and doing the same thing over and over again, that may have been considered too repetitious for a man to do. Once we started into programming code, more and more men came into the field. Maybe it was because it was repetitious, and someone years and years and years ago had said women are good at repetitious or tedious stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Attention to detail."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But men did get into a lot. There are a lot of men in the field now, but they aren't called computers, either. But there are a lot of men doing it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel like was your most challenging project that you worked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.631046750962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now? I don't know. I don't know because I never worked for anyone else. It's difficult to say what would have been if you weren't really there. But I think even with the federal government out at NACA, women were placed in computing division or even—I remember someone, I think, who had a degree in accounting, who may have been put in clerical work. Remember, we're still dealing with people who have certain perceptions as to where women ought to be. Nothing was given to minorities or women. It took some fighting to get that equal opportunity and we're still fighting today. Of course, you know that. So I can't say what would have been if I'd gone to work for private industry. I do not know. Well, I'll never know. I don't think I'm going to work there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't if I were you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't fool myself and say, \"Oh, gosh, I worked for the government.\" I mentioned earlier about one of the things that several of us thought about the government, that you couldn't be fired from the government. I've heard that expression for years and years. \"You can't be fired from the government.\" Well, they may call it a reduction in force, but those people were let go. The results were the same, as if you say \"You're fired\" or you're going to be gently escorted out. You're out of a job. And that surprised a lot of us, back in the seventies. We just didn't know that could happen, but we found out, yes, it can happen. I still don't know why or how the people were chosen. I guess I feel differently that—I can't speak that I felt that, oh, gosh, I had better chances here than I would there. I do not know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you speak to other groups or when you were doing college recruiting, you were encouraging other people to choose your field? Is that something you would still do, or what would you tell people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I went recruiting it was really for engineers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it? Really?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.18891442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I would suggest that you take any possible courses, math courses, that are being offered, at the earliest opportunity, if you have a chance. If they're being offered in elementary school, whatever they are, start then, and just take whatever is available. Don't give up on it. Just stick with it. Don't listen to people who always tell you it's hard, and walk away from it. And I think we do make that mistake sometimes, listening to someone who says, \"Oh, math is so hard,\" and maybe you won't even attempt it. For perhaps it won't be that hard for you, if you look into it. And they could be telling you that a foreign language is too hard, and maybe if you tried it, you could accomplish what you wanted to. That is kind of with anything you want to do, not just one field. Investigate, and then make your own decision. That would be my advice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned some of the committees and organizations. You were an Equal Employment Opportunity counselor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, EEO counselor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other thing? The ski club, you mentioned you were a part of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm one of the founders of our ski club. I was the first president out here. As I said, I was in the Speakers Bureau. You know, you do all those other little things. There's a Suggestion Awards Committee and all. There's just a bunch of little things you do through the years. They may not show up on a resume, but at the time I think they were meaningful, they were helpful. Again, we were helping people get an award for some suggestion they had made. We had a running club out here. I was also a part of the running club at one time. I used to be a runner. The work is fine, but I think the social bit is also that you're able to socialize with your coworkers. Not that you have to, but it's nice to be able to, if you so choose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It builds that team feeling, I'm sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I used to run. I do play tennis and I do golf. I do lots of things, none of them well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have a good time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I have a good time. And I think part of it is the people. Now, the running was a very alone-type thing. That, I could do alone and enjoy it, but I enjoy golfing. I enjoy being with other people. I enjoy doing things with people, whether it's golfing or going out to dinner. It's just that I like to do things with people. I have never been bored in retirement, and there's never a day that I say, \"I wonder what I can do.\" There are always more opportunities that I can take advantage of, and I like it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still involved in any tutoring or anything of that sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only if they catch me. Actually, when I met those other computers, it was because I went out to do a program at Mills College in Oakland [California]. So every so often, I'm still found. I don't tutor on a regular basis, but if someone asks me to come to a career day, I will do it, to talk to the students. I'm always willing to do it. So yes, I still will be involved, as long as I possibly can, and as long as anyone asks me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any specific anecdotes or any incidents or happenings, than we haven't talked about, that happened while you were here at NASA that you want to mention, or anything you can think of offhand?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I have a good time. And I think part of it is the people. Now, the running was a very alone-type thing. That, I could do alone and enjoy it, but I enjoy golfing. I enjoy being with other people. I enjoy doing things with people, whether it's golfing or going out to dinner. It's just that I like to do things with people. I have never been bored in retirement, and there's never a day that I say, \"I wonder what I can do.\" There are always more opportunities that I can take advantage of, and I like it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still involved in any tutoring or anything of that sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only if they catch me. Actually, when I met those other computers, it was because I went out to do a program at Mills College in Oakland [California]. So every so often, I'm still found. I don't tutor on a regular basis, but if someone asks me to come to a career day, I will do it, to talk to the students. I'm always willing to do it. So yes, I still will be involved, as long as I possibly can, and as long as anyone asks me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any specific anecdotes or any incidents or happenings, than we haven't talked about, that happened while you were here at NASA that you want to mention, or anything you can think of offhand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not off the top of my head. I just can't think of anything. It seems like I've said a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have. We've talked a lot."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only if they catch me. Actually, when I met those other computers, it was because I went out to do a program at Mills College in Oakland [California]. So every so often, I'm still found. I don't tutor on a regular basis, but if someone asks me to come to a career day, I will do it, to talk to the students. I'm always willing to do it. So yes, I still will be involved, as long as I possibly can, and as long as anyone asks me to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any specific anecdotes or any incidents or happenings, than we haven't talked about, that happened while you were here at NASA that you want to mention, or anything you can think of offhand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not off the top of my head. I just can't think of anything. It seems like I've said a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have. We've talked a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of just any specifics, but if they come up, I'll make a note of them, if I think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any topic that we didn't cover that you wanted to mention, about your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not off the top of my head. I just can't think of anything. It seems like I've said a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have. We've talked a lot."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of just any specifics, but if they come up, I'll make a note of them, if I think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any topic that we didn't cover that you wanted to mention, about your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we've pretty much covered most of them. Again, I will stress, for me, it was wonderful, it has been a wonderful time to be alive, to see all of the changes that took place in my work life, from where we were to where we went. And to still see changes. I'm just fascinated by all of the changes. We can fax this and email that and voice mail. I mean, it's just fascinating to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you keeping up with all the gadgets?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't think of just any specifics, but if they come up, I'll make a note of them, if I think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any topic that we didn't cover that you wanted to mention, about your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we've pretty much covered most of them. Again, I will stress, for me, it was wonderful, it has been a wonderful time to be alive, to see all of the changes that took place in my work life, from where we were to where we went. And to still see changes. I'm just fascinated by all of the changes. We can fax this and email that and voice mail. I mean, it's just fascinating to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you keeping up with all the gadgets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not playing with them. I do what is necessary. I bought a computer because I thought I needed to, but I don't sit on it and play to see how much I can dig into. I don't have the time or the desire. I will get the email and I'll send it, but I don't play with it. It's not like this fascinating thing I play with. I'd much rather be out doing something actively, like on the golf course or doing other things. But some of the things I get are the necessities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate you talking to me today and sharing your career and your many accomplishments, and your well-rounded career at NASA. In closing, I just want to thank you again."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01007:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we've pretty much covered most of them. Again, I will stress, for me, it was wonderful, it has been a wonderful time to be alive, to see all of the changes that took place in my work life, from where we were to where we went. And to still see changes. I'm just fascinated by all of the changes. We can fax this and email that and voice mail. I mean, it's just fascinating to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you keeping up with all the gadgets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not playing with them. I do what is necessary. I bought a computer because I thought I needed to, but I don't sit on it and play to see how much I can dig into. I don't have the time or the desire. I will get the email and I'll send it, but I don't play with it. It's not like this fascinating thing I play with. I'd much rather be out doing something actively, like on the golf course or doing other things. But some of the things I get are the necessities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I appreciate you talking to me today and sharing your career and your many accomplishments, and your well-rounded career at NASA. In closing, I just want to thank you again."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I thank you for coming and taking the time to talk to me. I'm always willing to talk, if anyone wants to hear anything I have to say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we certainly enjoyed it. Thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00008:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.989598022, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm perfectly okay. Because, serious now, I would really, really like to see somebody—I don't know how it would happen—write a book to say how it really was. The personalities—there were fights, there were egos. There still are. People that didn't agree with each other, people that didn't get along with each other. There was shenanigans going on as to how they [worked together]. I mean, if somebody could write that story, I would even buy the book.\\n\\n But all this stuff, “Everything went beautiful, and Joe did this and Bill did that,” that's not real. But it's history, so I don't mean to be too flippant about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We certainly get a sense of people's personalities from talking to those people themselves, but also from the people who work with them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, I guess, what struck me as good about this project, that it's people talking now and not writing. When you write, it's quite a bit different. When you talk, you can see through all the baloney. I hope you're seeing through mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We often have to remind people that when they look at their transcript that that's how you talk and not how you write."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I suppose, you know, you've done this for a while now. I suppose you get some pretty serious guys, don't you, that just talk about [it] in a [formal kind of way]. If you were talking to Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz, for instance. I love Gene. He's a brilliant guy, but “General Patton” we used to call him. He had these silver guns on his—are we off?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we're still on. I did want to, however, give Kirk and Carol a chance to ask any questions if they did, because I didn't have anymore. Kirk?\n\nThere is one question, sir. During the recovery process of the Mercury capsule, there was a debate between the resin shield for the heat shield—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00008:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.321775579999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's, I guess, what struck me as good about this project, that it's people talking now and not writing. When you write, it's quite a bit different. When you talk, you can see through all the baloney. I hope you're seeing through mine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We often have to remind people that when they look at their transcript that that's how you talk and not how you write."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I suppose, you know, you've done this for a while now. I suppose you get some pretty serious guys, don't you, that just talk about [it] in a [formal kind of way]. If you were talking to Gene [Eugene F.] Kranz, for instance. I love Gene. He's a brilliant guy, but “General Patton” we used to call him. He had these silver guns on his—are we off?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we're still on. I did want to, however, give Kirk and Carol a chance to ask any questions if they did, because I didn't have anymore. Kirk?\n\nThere is one question, sir. During the recovery process of the Mercury capsule, there was a debate between the resin shield for the heat shield—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Beryllium?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. And I was sort of curious if you were involved in that and what came of it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.258145629674795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK. Well, I was in college, and that was also a time in the history of the United States which certainly as somebody in college was paying attention to in terms of not only Kennedy and Kennedy had said in terms of doing something for others and for your country, but the civil rights movement was going strong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa. It's a Methodist school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you taking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was studying sociology and psychology. Well, general liberal arts, actually, but sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular career path in mind or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.286828477416439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa. It's a Methodist school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you taking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was studying sociology and psychology. Well, general liberal arts, actually, but sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular career path in mind or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time I was thinking social work, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during college and even in high school, had you done any kind of volunteer work somewhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.318698308240487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was studying sociology and psychology. Well, general liberal arts, actually, but sociology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any particular career path in mind or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time I was thinking social work, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during college and even in high school, had you done any kind of volunteer work somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I'd always been very involved in church, in the Methodist Church. And so there probably was some volunteer work involved there. But I grew up on a farm in northwest Iowa, and there wasn't much time for volunteer work. Wasn't much of a need for the volunteer work, because you were so busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about any travel during, right up through college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.46522034248943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that time I was thinking social work, that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during college and even in high school, had you done any kind of volunteer work somewhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I'd always been very involved in church, in the Methodist Church. And so there probably was some volunteer work involved there. But I grew up on a farm in northwest Iowa, and there wasn't much time for volunteer work. Wasn't much of a need for the volunteer work, because you were so busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about any travel during, right up through college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. Very little travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And had you studied any other language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.40580038054381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. I'd always been very involved in church, in the Methodist Church. And so there probably was some volunteer work involved there. But I grew up on a farm in northwest Iowa, and there wasn't much time for volunteer work. Wasn't much of a need for the volunteer work, because you were so busy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. How about any travel during, right up through college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. Very little travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And had you studied any other language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college I studied Spanish, but at that time there was no language taught in the high school that I attended. Small town high school. And you know, you have to remember that was I graduated in '61 so that latter part of the fifties I was in high school. And again, I think that was true of many small towns at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps or how or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.450889311715345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very little. Very little travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And had you studied any other language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college I studied Spanish, but at that time there was no language taught in the high school that I attended. Small town high school. And you know, you have to remember that was I graduated in '61 so that latter part of the fifties I was in high school. And again, I think that was true of many small towns at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps or how or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't really remember. I just know that Kennedy was a great influence on me in terms of his person, his personage. And what I perceived at that point of his integrity and sincerity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you are coming up to graduation, what year would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.167654790794828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In college I studied Spanish, but at that time there was no language taught in the high school that I attended. Small town high school. And you know, you have to remember that was I graduated in '61 so that latter part of the fifties I was in high school. And again, I think that was true of many small towns at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Do you recall when you first heard about the Peace Corps or how or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't really remember. I just know that Kennedy was a great influence on me in terms of his person, his personage. And what I perceived at that point of his integrity and sincerity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you are coming up to graduation, what year would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65. Graduated in May and went to the Peace Corps I think the next month, or the next month or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you decide that you were going to apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.964060878660919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't really remember. I just know that Kennedy was a great influence on me in terms of his person, his personage. And what I perceived at that point of his integrity and sincerity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you are coming up to graduation, what year would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'65. Graduated in May and went to the Peace Corps I think the next month, or the next month or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At what point did you decide that you were going to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember exactly when I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.128470220569035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember exactly when I applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I remember the application, and I remember that this wasn't going to be a popular thing with my parents, but it'd been my dad. And I think it was the previous year, I just can't remember when, a group of students went from Morningside to the South to help register to vote. So and I did not go, but I wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it just seemed that as I got closer to thinking about graduation, what I wanted to do. This was, I just knew this was what I was going to do. And I knew it would be not popular because as my dad told me, I didn't send you to college to go off to some foreign country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't kind of picture you as sort of a missionary or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.809411356187817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I remember the application, and I remember that this wasn't going to be a popular thing with my parents, but it'd been my dad. And I think it was the previous year, I just can't remember when, a group of students went from Morningside to the South to help register to vote. So and I did not go, but I wanted to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it just seemed that as I got closer to thinking about graduation, what I wanted to do. This was, I just knew this was what I was going to do. And I knew it would be not popular because as my dad told me, I didn't send you to college to go off to some foreign country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't kind of picture you as sort of a missionary or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I don't think they would, even though I may have perceived myself in more in that light, particularly with my church background and service ideology. And because I did have that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, not necessarily to proselytize, but to do service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5660126179864635, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so it just seemed that as I got closer to thinking about graduation, what I wanted to do. This was, I just knew this was what I was going to do. And I knew it would be not popular because as my dad told me, I didn't send you to college to go off to some foreign country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't kind of picture you as sort of a missionary or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I don't think they would, even though I may have perceived myself in more in that light, particularly with my church background and service ideology. And because I did have that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, not necessarily to proselytize, but to do service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But to do good. Whatever a person of that age has a picture in their head, you know, that we're going to change the world. We're going to help the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about you? Do you have any siblings?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.406680686651626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, I don't think they would, even though I may have perceived myself in more in that light, particularly with my church background and service ideology. And because I did have that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah, not necessarily to proselytize, but to do service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But to do good. Whatever a person of that age has a picture in their head, you know, that we're going to change the world. We're going to help the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about you? Do you have any siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was the oldest of four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did the siblings think of this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.340756318501807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But to do good. Whatever a person of that age has a picture in their head, you know, that we're going to change the world. We're going to help the world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about you? Do you have any siblings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was the oldest of four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what did the siblings think of this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember, except I would imagine they thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends, your college friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.951551010496057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember, except I would imagine they thought it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your friends, your college friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't really have a perception of getting much feedback from them. This was kind of just something that whatever they thought, I was going to do. And yeah, I don't know that I was that strident about it. But now in hindsight, it was like my mind was made up. So I remember filling out the application. Probably it was just that. I don't know how quickly I could have gotten approved, but it seemed to me that it was that spring of '65, early, early '65, that I filled out the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In those days, maybe that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember if they, do you remember taking a lengthy test as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.835056678328952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I don't really have a perception of getting much feedback from them. This was kind of just something that whatever they thought, I was going to do. And yeah, I don't know that I was that strident about it. But now in hindsight, it was like my mind was made up. So I remember filling out the application. Probably it was just that. I don't know how quickly I could have gotten approved, but it seemed to me that it was that spring of '65, early, early '65, that I filled out the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In those days, maybe that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember if they, do you remember taking a lengthy test as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some sort of a test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like almost like the graduate exam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.705618531476613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In those days, maybe that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can't remember if they, do you remember taking a lengthy test as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some sort of a test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like almost like the graduate exam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I probably saw, now that I'm thinking about it, probably saw, I'm not sure if there was a poster at college. I don't know. And then right there in Sioux City, you could go probably take the test or the entry thing or whatever it was. And I have a vague recollection of that. But it seemed like it was probably that spring that I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't recruited. I mean, you knew of it and said, I want to do this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.561798368307349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was some sort of a test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of like almost like the graduate exam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I probably saw, now that I'm thinking about it, probably saw, I'm not sure if there was a poster at college. I don't know. And then right there in Sioux City, you could go probably take the test or the entry thing or whatever it was. And I have a vague recollection of that. But it seemed like it was probably that spring that I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't recruited. I mean, you knew of it and said, I want to do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No one talked to me about it that I recall. I didn't talk to anybody that had come back because there weren't that many that had come back from the Peace Corps by that time, you know, early '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the application, if you remember, there's a place where you indicate a preference for assignment. Do you recall it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.290887075897054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I probably saw, now that I'm thinking about it, probably saw, I'm not sure if there was a poster at college. I don't know. And then right there in Sioux City, you could go probably take the test or the entry thing or whatever it was. And I have a vague recollection of that. But it seemed like it was probably that spring that I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you weren't recruited. I mean, you knew of it and said, I want to do this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No one talked to me about it that I recall. I didn't talk to anybody that had come back because there weren't that many that had come back from the Peace Corps by that time, you know, early '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the application, if you remember, there's a place where you indicate a preference for assignment. Do you recall it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think I indicated Spanish speaking if possible because that was the only language I spoke besides English or had any knowledge of besides English. And it seemed to me that I might have indicated South America or, you know, other places where people speak Spanish because besides South America. But yeah, seems like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened next? You got a letter or telegram?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.989874528774504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. No one talked to me about it that I recall. I didn't talk to anybody that had come back because there weren't that many that had come back from the Peace Corps by that time, you know, early '65."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then in the application, if you remember, there's a place where you indicate a preference for assignment. Do you recall it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I think I indicated Spanish speaking if possible because that was the only language I spoke besides English or had any knowledge of besides English. And it seemed to me that I might have indicated South America or, you know, other places where people speak Spanish because besides South America. But yeah, seems like it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what happened next? You got a letter or telegram?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a letter that I was approved, that I was accepted, and can't remember at that point. I guess that must have been when they say. Well, I don't know if they had assigned me to a place right then. I can't remember, you know, whether you're going to the Dominican Republic or we'll get back to you. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Usually it's an invitation to training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.283795714536424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a letter that I was approved, that I was accepted, and can't remember at that point. I guess that must have been when they say. Well, I don't know if they had assigned me to a place right then. I can't remember, you know, whether you're going to the Dominican Republic or we'll get back to you. I can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Usually it's an invitation to training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well then, I probably got a letter that said that I would be assigned to the Dominican Republic, and I would be reporting to Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then after a period of time there, a short period of time, let me think. Then I would go to the Dominican Republic and I was in Arecibo, south of Arecibo, in one of the camps there. That's where I trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was actually in country then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.870884127262693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well then, I probably got a letter that said that I would be assigned to the Dominican Republic, and I would be reporting to Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then after a period of time there, a short period of time, let me think. Then I would go to the Dominican Republic and I was in Arecibo, south of Arecibo, in one of the camps there. That's where I trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was actually in country then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, OK, OK. But you got the letter and you didn't have any hesitation about sending back and saying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.523204585847436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then after a period of time there, a short period of time, let me think. Then I would go to the Dominican Republic and I was in Arecibo, south of Arecibo, in one of the camps there. That's where I trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training was actually in country then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, OK, OK. But you got the letter and you didn't have any hesitation about sending back and saying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Evidently, if I did, I overcame it because, you know, I'm sure it wasn't as black and white as I remember. No, because one always thinks, oh my gosh, is this what I need to do, should do, at this point? And so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your parents weren't, you know, saying, go, go!"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.2480050953860395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was in Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, OK, OK. But you got the letter and you didn't have any hesitation about sending back and saying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Evidently, if I did, I overcame it because, you know, I'm sure it wasn't as black and white as I remember. No, because one always thinks, oh my gosh, is this what I need to do, should do, at this point? And so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your parents weren't, you know, saying, go, go!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. I don't even know, frankly, if when I told them. I can't remember when I told them I had been accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope you said something before you left."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.053338994873377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Evidently, if I did, I overcame it because, you know, I'm sure it wasn't as black and white as I remember. No, because one always thinks, oh my gosh, is this what I need to do, should do, at this point? And so I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your parents weren't, you know, saying, go, go!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. I don't even know, frankly, if when I told them. I can't remember when I told them I had been accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope you said something before you left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. I didn't say, by the way, folks, there's suitcases and I'm going to the Peace Corps. No, I can't. I can't recall when I told them, probably after I got accepted, you know, and then probably went home, you know, that spring and indicated that I had been accepted to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were going to report to Philadelphia and that was after graduation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.948154438748196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. I don't even know, frankly, if when I told them. I can't remember when I told them I had been accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope you said something before you left."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. I didn't say, by the way, folks, there's suitcases and I'm going to the Peace Corps. No, I can't. I can't recall when I told them, probably after I got accepted, you know, and then probably went home, you know, that spring and indicated that I had been accepted to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were going to report to Philadelphia and that was after graduation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I graduated in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you been given a shopping list and clothing to buy and everything?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.94239382083133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, oh yes. I didn't say, by the way, folks, there's suitcases and I'm going to the Peace Corps. No, I can't. I can't recall when I told them, probably after I got accepted, you know, and then probably went home, you know, that spring and indicated that I had been accepted to the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were going to report to Philadelphia and that was after graduation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I graduated in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had you been given a shopping list and clothing to buy and everything?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems like I had, yes, seems like I had a long list of things and shots. Probably some, well, I can't remember, cause I got some shots in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you were sort of leaving with the expectation that you were not going to be back home for two years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.583202247939913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems like I had, yes, seems like I had a long list of things and shots. Probably some, well, I can't remember, cause I got some shots in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you were sort of leaving with the expectation that you were not going to be back home for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, strangely enough, in those days. I don't know if it had to do with the training in Puerto Rico or what, but we went to Philadelphia. We had the orientation there, got our eyes examined, glasses. If you know, a pair of Peace Corps glasses, if we needed them. Teeth perhaps. And then we were sent to Puerto Rico. And after our two and a half months there in this camp, we were able to come back home for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ten days, whatever. And then, so we came back home for that two-week period and then we were sent to the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about that period when you reported to Philadelphia. There must have a hotel or someplace where you stayed."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.425780275488792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, actually, strangely enough, in those days. I don't know if it had to do with the training in Puerto Rico or what, but we went to Philadelphia. We had the orientation there, got our eyes examined, glasses. If you know, a pair of Peace Corps glasses, if we needed them. Teeth perhaps. And then we were sent to Puerto Rico. And after our two and a half months there in this camp, we were able to come back home for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ten days, whatever. And then, so we came back home for that two-week period and then we were sent to the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about that period when you reported to Philadelphia. There must have a hotel or someplace where you stayed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps had a hotel there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall approximately how many people were in the group at that point? Were they all for the Dominican Republic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.361978083876435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ten days, whatever. And then, so we came back home for that two-week period and then we were sent to the Dominican Republic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about that period when you reported to Philadelphia. There must have a hotel or someplace where you stayed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps had a hotel there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall approximately how many people were in the group at that point? Were they all for the Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably everybody that came together at that point that I remember was. And I mean, there could have been 28, 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now here you've made this decision and suddenly you're in the midst of 20 some other people who made the same decision."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.291086759862706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps had a hotel there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall approximately how many people were in the group at that point? Were they all for the Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably everybody that came together at that point that I remember was. And I mean, there could have been 28, 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now here you've made this decision and suddenly you're in the midst of 20 some other people who made the same decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Well, certainly curious, you know, in terms of what is, you know, in a sense, I suppose, what has motivated these people. But mostly I was just excited, you know, and a new adventure that I never imagined that I would have. Here I am in Philadelphia. And of course, you get to absorb some of the history, you know, because I've never been there before. And everybody, we were, most people were young. We were, many of us just out of college. And also, you have to remember that was the Vietnam War was just ramping up. And so there were a couple of older men, but most of them were. Most of us, I think, were just out of college and, um, more males than females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the beginning of the Vietnam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.323429733180784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably everybody that came together at that point that I remember was. And I mean, there could have been 28, 30."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your impression? I mean, now here you've made this decision and suddenly you're in the midst of 20 some other people who made the same decision."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Well, certainly curious, you know, in terms of what is, you know, in a sense, I suppose, what has motivated these people. But mostly I was just excited, you know, and a new adventure that I never imagined that I would have. Here I am in Philadelphia. And of course, you get to absorb some of the history, you know, because I've never been there before. And everybody, we were, most people were young. We were, many of us just out of college. And also, you have to remember that was the Vietnam War was just ramping up. And so there were a couple of older men, but most of them were. Most of us, I think, were just out of college and, um, more males than females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the beginning of the Vietnam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, and probably most of us are trying to figure out what community development meant, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if in Philadelphia you were told that you're going to train to go to Dominican Republic to do community development, or simply that you're going to train in a generic sense?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.470477481311983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Well, certainly curious, you know, in terms of what is, you know, in a sense, I suppose, what has motivated these people. But mostly I was just excited, you know, and a new adventure that I never imagined that I would have. Here I am in Philadelphia. And of course, you get to absorb some of the history, you know, because I've never been there before. And everybody, we were, most people were young. We were, many of us just out of college. And also, you have to remember that was the Vietnam War was just ramping up. And so there were a couple of older men, but most of them were. Most of us, I think, were just out of college and, um, more males than females."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that was the beginning of the Vietnam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, and probably most of us are trying to figure out what community development meant, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if in Philadelphia you were told that you're going to train to go to Dominican Republic to do community development, or simply that you're going to train in a generic sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we knew that we were going to the Dominican Republic. Now whether or not we were told at that point that it was community, I'm almost sure that it was, that we were addressed as a community development group. Yeah, I'm almost sure of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the Arecibo, the Puerto Rican."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.300530534791092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. You know, and probably most of us are trying to figure out what community development meant, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if in Philadelphia you were told that you're going to train to go to Dominican Republic to do community development, or simply that you're going to train in a generic sense?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we knew that we were going to the Dominican Republic. Now whether or not we were told at that point that it was community, I'm almost sure that it was, that we were addressed as a community development group. Yeah, I'm almost sure of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the Arecibo, the Puerto Rican."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Arecibo is on the coast, the northern coast. And their Camp Crozier and Camp Bradley were south of there. And my group was in Camp Bradley. And I'm not sure volunteers were even at Crozier at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the camp fairly new or had it been around a while?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.000589483101213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we knew that we were going to the Dominican Republic. Now whether or not we were told at that point that it was community, I'm almost sure that it was, that we were addressed as a community development group. Yeah, I'm almost sure of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk about the Arecibo, the Puerto Rican."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Arecibo is on the coast, the northern coast. And their Camp Crozier and Camp Bradley were south of there. And my group was in Camp Bradley. And I'm not sure volunteers were even at Crozier at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the camp fairly new or had it been around a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, this was '65 and um, Sargent Shriver had instituted those Outward Bound programs because that's basically what those camps were. Outward Bound in terms of physical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that, when you finally got to the camp, that that's what was going to happen? I mean, did people define the goals or the purpose?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.778432759001348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Arecibo is on the coast, the northern coast. And their Camp Crozier and Camp Bradley were south of there. And my group was in Camp Bradley. And I'm not sure volunteers were even at Crozier at that time. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was the camp fairly new or had it been around a while?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, this was '65 and um, Sargent Shriver had instituted those Outward Bound programs because that's basically what those camps were. Outward Bound in terms of physical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that, when you finally got to the camp, that that's what was going to happen? I mean, did people define the goals or the purpose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just remember that when this got in our heads, my head and our heads, but that the type of training we would be undergoing was going to be physical. Because the idea was anything we could handle physically, we then would be able to handle psychologically anything we met. So if we could do it, you know, meet the physical challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there language training as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.642703065557052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, this was '65 and um, Sargent Shriver had instituted those Outward Bound programs because that's basically what those camps were. Outward Bound in terms of physical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know that, when you finally got to the camp, that that's what was going to happen? I mean, did people define the goals or the purpose?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just remember that when this got in our heads, my head and our heads, but that the type of training we would be undergoing was going to be physical. Because the idea was anything we could handle physically, we then would be able to handle psychologically anything we met. So if we could do it, you know, meet the physical challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there language training as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was a main focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized, do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.603003406174501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just remember that when this got in our heads, my head and our heads, but that the type of training we would be undergoing was going to be physical. Because the idea was anything we could handle physically, we then would be able to handle psychologically anything we met. So if we could do it, you know, meet the physical challenges."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there language training as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was a main focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have taken either oral and written language tests or maybe based upon what we had reported we had studied, but we were divided into groups that had common knowledge of the language. So that there were some that were more advanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how many hours a day with language, was it every morning?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.447781562416111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And that was a main focus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was that organized, do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have taken either oral and written language tests or maybe based upon what we had reported we had studied, but we were divided into groups that had common knowledge of the language. So that there were some that were more advanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how many hours a day with language, was it every morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was every day, and it probably was at least three hours a day. But that's a guess. I don't know, details escape me at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if anyone said that your ability to learn the language would determine whether you went?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.164201736017902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We must have taken either oral and written language tests or maybe based upon what we had reported we had studied, but we were divided into groups that had common knowledge of the language. So that there were some that were more advanced."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so how many hours a day with language, was it every morning?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was every day, and it probably was at least three hours a day. But that's a guess. I don't know, details escape me at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if anyone said that your ability to learn the language would determine whether you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Not really. Not really. I suppose there was that sense. I mean, my gosh, here we are fresh from college. We knew we needed to communicate in some manner, I mean, obviously. And we knew that the last two weeks of training, we were going to be living with a Puerto Rican family that didn't speak English. And so, you know, we had some reason to want to learn the language, but everybody's different. And in the desire to learn a language doesn't always mean that you're going to be able to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the first phase, before you went out for the family stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.849113040019891, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was every day, and it probably was at least three hours a day. But that's a guess. I don't know, details escape me at this point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if anyone said that your ability to learn the language would determine whether you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Not really. Not really. I suppose there was that sense. I mean, my gosh, here we are fresh from college. We knew we needed to communicate in some manner, I mean, obviously. And we knew that the last two weeks of training, we were going to be living with a Puerto Rican family that didn't speak English. And so, you know, we had some reason to want to learn the language, but everybody's different. And in the desire to learn a language doesn't always mean that you're going to be able to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the first phase, before you went out for the family stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were in camp probably two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.387903377799879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. Not really. Not really. I suppose there was that sense. I mean, my gosh, here we are fresh from college. We knew we needed to communicate in some manner, I mean, obviously. And we knew that the last two weeks of training, we were going to be living with a Puerto Rican family that didn't speak English. And so, you know, we had some reason to want to learn the language, but everybody's different. And in the desire to learn a language doesn't always mean that you're going to be able to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was the first phase, before you went out for the family stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were in camp probably two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Before we were. It seemed to me that the last thing we did, but I could be wrong. Last thing we did was to spend this week, two weeks, two weeks with, maybe it wasn't two weeks, a week with this family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the first phase, what else did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.875448197555421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we were in camp probably two months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Before we were. It seemed to me that the last thing we did, but I could be wrong. Last thing we did was to spend this week, two weeks, two weeks with, maybe it wasn't two weeks, a week with this family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. During the first phase, what else did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had projects there at the camp. One group had raised chickens. And I can't for the life of me remember what my group did, but we weren't in charge of chickens. It may come to me as I think about it. We presented demonstrations on food, how to use powdered milk, for example, how to make useful things, maybe sewing, that sort of thing. We were supposed to do this in Spanish, so as time went on and it wasn't the first week, of course, but as time went on, we had little classes and we were in charge of presenting something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd work in small groups and you'd have to get up and do a presentation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.549936046364718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had projects there at the camp. One group had raised chickens. And I can't for the life of me remember what my group did, but we weren't in charge of chickens. It may come to me as I think about it. We presented demonstrations on food, how to use powdered milk, for example, how to make useful things, maybe sewing, that sort of thing. We were supposed to do this in Spanish, so as time went on and it wasn't the first week, of course, but as time went on, we had little classes and we were in charge of presenting something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you'd work in small groups and you'd have to get up and do a presentation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And of course, we had our duties at camp. We had to clean latrines. We had to sweep, you know, and we had, every day we had to get up very early. And a big guy named Al would wake us up by pounding on our door and we would do calisthenics and exercises in the dining hall. And then, if not every time we did this, almost every day we ran down to the other camp. Sometimes, not always, but we ran down to a particular point. I can't know how far the other camp was from our camp. And it was hilly, so we would run as far as we could or as far as they indicated we should try. And then sometimes we went down to the other camp, either if we ever ran all the way and then did this Outward Bound water work, but we got down to the other camp some way. And then they put us through some water challenges, and they, for example, would tie our hands and we had to swim across the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Drown proofing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then they'd tie our feet, not our hands, and they tie both and we had to swim. And then we went out into the ocean cove, into a cove where we did some drown proofing one time or one or two times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through all this, how did you take to the physical training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9443733848496865, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And of course, we had our duties at camp. We had to clean latrines. We had to sweep, you know, and we had, every day we had to get up very early. And a big guy named Al would wake us up by pounding on our door and we would do calisthenics and exercises in the dining hall. And then, if not every time we did this, almost every day we ran down to the other camp. Sometimes, not always, but we ran down to a particular point. I can't know how far the other camp was from our camp. And it was hilly, so we would run as far as we could or as far as they indicated we should try. And then sometimes we went down to the other camp, either if we ever ran all the way and then did this Outward Bound water work, but we got down to the other camp some way. And then they put us through some water challenges, and they, for example, would tie our hands and we had to swim across the water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Drown proofing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then they'd tie our feet, not our hands, and they tie both and we had to swim. And then we went out into the ocean cove, into a cove where we did some drown proofing one time or one or two times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through all this, how did you take to the physical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. Fine. I was always physically active and strong and had worked outside a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about others in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.382637094277429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then they'd tie our feet, not our hands, and they tie both and we had to swim. And then we went out into the ocean cove, into a cove where we did some drown proofing one time or one or two times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Through all this, how did you take to the physical training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. Fine. I was always physically active and strong and had worked outside a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seemingly OK. I mean, I don't recall. There may have been some. Now we did some rappelling off of the rocks, which I enjoyed, frankly, it was fun. And, you know, I can't remember if some weren't able to do it. Some may have been afraid. I just I don't recall. I don't know that anybody particularly stood out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up the other aspect of training that may have been at play. Was there a selection process going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.869596771419365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. Fine. I was always physically active and strong and had worked outside a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how about others in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seemingly OK. I mean, I don't recall. There may have been some. Now we did some rappelling off of the rocks, which I enjoyed, frankly, it was fun. And, you know, I can't remember if some weren't able to do it. Some may have been afraid. I just I don't recall. I don't know that anybody particularly stood out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up the other aspect of training that may have been at play. Was there a selection process going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.299551968243739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seemingly OK. I mean, I don't recall. There may have been some. Now we did some rappelling off of the rocks, which I enjoyed, frankly, it was fun. And, you know, I can't remember if some weren't able to do it. Some may have been afraid. I just I don't recall. I don't know that anybody particularly stood out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That brings up the other aspect of training that may have been at play. Was there a selection process going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had at that time, regular, probably weekly, I'm not real sure, interviews with a psychologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. One on one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.308088849683628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had at that time, regular, probably weekly, I'm not real sure, interviews with a psychologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. One on one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One on one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One on one. It may not have been as frequently as once a week. He probably came down once a month, but it seemed like it was once a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your interviews?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.5531961107205285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One on one. It may not have been as frequently as once a week. He probably came down once a month, but it seemed like it was once a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall your interviews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I do. Probably I was scared to death, obviously, because, you know, here's this little northwest Iowa girl, you know, and here's this psychologist. And this has something to do with whether I'll get to go or not, you know? Um, but it seemed to work out OK, and I'm sure language was part of that, I mean. And you know, your personality, how you interact with everybody else. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's hard to know, frankly, in those days what they were looking for in a volunteer because I'm not sure that they knew either what they were looking for. Plus, the Dominican Republic had an extra, there was a special problem there. There had a revolution that just happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.947995678578365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do. I do. Probably I was scared to death, obviously, because, you know, here's this little northwest Iowa girl, you know, and here's this psychologist. And this has something to do with whether I'll get to go or not, you know? Um, but it seemed to work out OK, and I'm sure language was part of that, I mean. And you know, your personality, how you interact with everybody else. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's hard to know, frankly, in those days what they were looking for in a volunteer because I'm not sure that they knew either what they were looking for. Plus, the Dominican Republic had an extra, there was a special problem there. There had a revolution that just happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, earlier in '65. And so the United Nations Peacekeeping Force was there, which included a large number of American marines. So we knew that we were being sent into an unstable situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this all emerged in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.386661865087072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's hard to know, frankly, in those days what they were looking for in a volunteer because I'm not sure that they knew either what they were looking for. Plus, the Dominican Republic had an extra, there was a special problem there. There had a revolution that just happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, earlier in '65. And so the United Nations Peacekeeping Force was there, which included a large number of American marines. So we knew that we were being sent into an unstable situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this all emerged in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I can't remember how much we knew or how much I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because most of you would not be following affairs in Dominican Republic, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.874068738985636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, earlier in '65. And so the United Nations Peacekeeping Force was there, which included a large number of American marines. So we knew that we were being sent into an unstable situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this all emerged in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I can't remember how much we knew or how much I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because most of you would not be following affairs in Dominican Republic, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, well, we might have if we knew that, that's where we were to be assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right, OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.082298598872929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I can't remember how much we knew or how much I knew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because most of you would not be following affairs in Dominican Republic, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not, well, we might have if we knew that, that's where we were to be assigned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, right, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We might have. Can I remember that I went to the New York? No, I didn't go the New York Times. I'm sure I didn't, because that just wasn't in my array of choices. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not saying that. Some probably were more informed than others. But we did have a lot of classes where we learned about the history of the country and about the politics of the country. Who is who, what newspapers were there, what they stood for, who had been the leaders. What happened after Trujillo, who had been the dictator, was killed, you know, and why the country was so unstable. What we could expect, that we were not to fraternize with American troops, and why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But whoever was lecturing expressed the confidence that it was appropriate for you to go there and work in community development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5707390109542327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We might have. Can I remember that I went to the New York? No, I didn't go the New York Times. I'm sure I didn't, because that just wasn't in my array of choices. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not saying that. Some probably were more informed than others. But we did have a lot of classes where we learned about the history of the country and about the politics of the country. Who is who, what newspapers were there, what they stood for, who had been the leaders. What happened after Trujillo, who had been the dictator, was killed, you know, and why the country was so unstable. What we could expect, that we were not to fraternize with American troops, and why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. But whoever was lecturing expressed the confidence that it was appropriate for you to go there and work in community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that it would be safe, that it would be safe. Yes. Well, that was my perception anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were, I think I got the sense that they were watching the situation. You know, that they were constantly monitoring what was happening. And we had a library there in the camp where we could go and read the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, did anyone from, was Peace Corps already in Dominican Republic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8563766788380365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that it would be safe, that it would be safe. Yes. Well, that was my perception anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were, I think I got the sense that they were watching the situation. You know, that they were constantly monitoring what was happening. And we had a library there in the camp where we could go and read the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, did anyone from, was Peace Corps already in Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had they pulled out at the time of the revolution or stayed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.173751865375596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were, I think I got the sense that they were watching the situation. You know, that they were constantly monitoring what was happening. And we had a library there in the camp where we could go and read the newspapers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During this time, did anyone from, was Peace Corps already in Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had they pulled out at the time of the revolution or stayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did not pull out. They brought, um, they consolidated. I think the Peace Corps office might have been cut off. The rebels overtook some part of the capital city. And they might, Peace Corps office might have been cut off at that point, and they talked about having to get some volunteers, I won't say rescue, but bring some volunteers from an area that wasn't safe into an area that was. And as far as being out in the rural areas, I think most of the action was in the capital city. And so that's probably, the volunteers there were in most danger just because there was random shooting. Or not so random shooting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did anyone from Peace Corps staff in Dominican Republic come to Puerto Rico to talk to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5263909615284397, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And had they pulled out at the time of the revolution or stayed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did not pull out. They brought, um, they consolidated. I think the Peace Corps office might have been cut off. The rebels overtook some part of the capital city. And they might, Peace Corps office might have been cut off at that point, and they talked about having to get some volunteers, I won't say rescue, but bring some volunteers from an area that wasn't safe into an area that was. And as far as being out in the rural areas, I think most of the action was in the capital city. And so that's probably, the volunteers there were in most danger just because there was random shooting. Or not so random shooting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did anyone from Peace Corps staff in Dominican Republic come to Puerto Rico to talk to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of firsthand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.807101068364933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they did not pull out. They brought, um, they consolidated. I think the Peace Corps office might have been cut off. The rebels overtook some part of the capital city. And they might, Peace Corps office might have been cut off at that point, and they talked about having to get some volunteers, I won't say rescue, but bring some volunteers from an area that wasn't safe into an area that was. And as far as being out in the rural areas, I think most of the action was in the capital city. And so that's probably, the volunteers there were in most danger just because there was random shooting. Or not so random shooting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did anyone from Peace Corps staff in Dominican Republic come to Puerto Rico to talk to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of firsthand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember if, it would have been John Smith. He was the director in country, and I'm just trying to remember if he came to Puerto Rico. It seems like he did, but I can't remember him sitting, you know, you kind of think, well, now where was he? If he was there, where did he address us? Yeah, I just can't remember that he did. I just can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to the end of phase one of training. Was there any kind of selection board held at that point, sort of like a midpoint selection? Or was there a sense that everybody who was there was going to continue?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0078900759610367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sort of firsthand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember if, it would have been John Smith. He was the director in country, and I'm just trying to remember if he came to Puerto Rico. It seems like he did, but I can't remember him sitting, you know, you kind of think, well, now where was he? If he was there, where did he address us? Yeah, I just can't remember that he did. I just can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to the end of phase one of training. Was there any kind of selection board held at that point, sort of like a midpoint selection? Or was there a sense that everybody who was there was going to continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People were deselected all along the way. Well, I don't know during the first month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they tend to disappear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.230988973290041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember if, it would have been John Smith. He was the director in country, and I'm just trying to remember if he came to Puerto Rico. It seems like he did, but I can't remember him sitting, you know, you kind of think, well, now where was he? If he was there, where did he address us? Yeah, I just can't remember that he did. I just can't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to the end of phase one of training. Was there any kind of selection board held at that point, sort of like a midpoint selection? Or was there a sense that everybody who was there was going to continue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People were deselected all along the way. Well, I don't know during the first month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they tend to disappear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. They sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4788766369889346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. People were deselected all along the way. Well, I don't know during the first month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But did they tend to disappear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. They sure did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, probably most of that deselection happened toward the end, I would hope, I would think toward the end of time. And again, we probably assumed that much of it had to do with what was happening between us and the psychologist. That may not have been the case. But I can think of several men. There were no women deselected. I think there were only five or six of us in the group, frankly. Men who just were, you know, the rumor got around that they weren't going to be part of the group anymore or they weren't going in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did the group coalesce at all and react to this? I mean, protest or at least mutter about it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.400379474607592, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we didn't. You know, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I know that some training groups did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no sense of, uh, thank you, being, um, irate. I think we probably just got quiet about it and wondered, you know, what was the reason? Why did they feel like these would not be suitable volunteers? Did it have to do with, what did it have to do with?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were no explanations given that you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.778199416230658, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I know that some training groups did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no sense of, uh, thank you, being, um, irate. I think we probably just got quiet about it and wondered, you know, what was the reason? Why did they feel like these would not be suitable volunteers? Did it have to do with, what did it have to do with?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were no explanations given that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you feel about the process? Did you feel pretty comfortable that you were going? You weren't going to be deselected, as they say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.197999351367398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But there was no sense of, uh, thank you, being, um, irate. I think we probably just got quiet about it and wondered, you know, what was the reason? Why did they feel like these would not be suitable volunteers? Did it have to do with, what did it have to do with?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were no explanations given that you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you feel about the process? Did you feel pretty comfortable that you were going? You weren't going to be deselected, as they say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I must have, but that may have just been in hindsight, I made it through. You know, I don't recall. I'm sure that everybody was a bit nervous. You know, I'll say this and you can do with it what you want. But it seems like there may have been some, maybe they always asked questions about gender preference in those days. Maybe they did. But it just seemed like there was some hunting for gender preference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think you're right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.664443723741552, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. How did you feel about the process? Did you feel pretty comfortable that you were going? You weren't going to be deselected, as they say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I must have, but that may have just been in hindsight, I made it through. You know, I don't recall. I'm sure that everybody was a bit nervous. You know, I'll say this and you can do with it what you want. But it seems like there may have been some, maybe they always asked questions about gender preference in those days. Maybe they did. But it just seemed like there was some hunting for gender preference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think you're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it may have just been my perception and at that point in my life what did I know? And then in our culture, what did we know about gender preference in terms of a lifestyle, you know, or a choice or not a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.071604137490613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I must have, but that may have just been in hindsight, I made it through. You know, I don't recall. I'm sure that everybody was a bit nervous. You know, I'll say this and you can do with it what you want. But it seems like there may have been some, maybe they always asked questions about gender preference in those days. Maybe they did. But it just seemed like there was some hunting for gender preference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think you're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it may have just been my perception and at that point in my life what did I know? And then in our culture, what did we know about gender preference in terms of a lifestyle, you know, or a choice or not a choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just seemed like to me that was because I know those questions were asked. Now I do remember. Oh, I know. One of the questions that the psychologist asked had to do with, uh, we must have had some kind of a class on the dangers of getting involved with a host country national. And so what I think his question had to do with what would I do if I was attracted to someone, a Dominican. And I think he was just checking that out in terms of, you know, my response, and did I think it was ever possible that that could happen? Because I think if you can entertain the possibility of it happening, you're a lot healthier, because it's just realistic to think that it could. So I must have answered it OK because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go to the second phase of training. You want to describe it, how it was organized and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1160550582861637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Going out into the field and living with the family?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. In prior to that, one of the really, I guess it was fun and it was an adventure. And it was kind of scary too. All, there may have been six or seven women at that point. I'm not sure. There weren't any more than that. And we were taken out. And there had been several preliminary excursions into the wild, led by one of the trainers, where we would go out and we had to spend the night. We had to pitch our tent, spend the night, cook snails and eat them. Snails that we found on the ground, you know, land snails. Pretty much just stay out there by ourselves, not talk to anybody for that period of time. You know, there's something. And then let's say six, six, seven girls, women, young women were. We had backpacks and we were all outfitted with our boots and map, and we were taken out and dropped off at a certain point and we were supposed to find our way back to camp over a period of days. And not supposed to go to tiendas or little stores and buy food and all that kind of stuff. So that was quite an adventure. And it, you know, the adventure had to do with how well we were going to cooperate, who going to read the map, who's going to take orders, who's going to give orders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what role you played in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably was not a leader at that point in terms of saying, this is how we need to do it. You know, I had opinions, definitely. But you know, somebody else probably felt like they wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather you did work your way back to camp."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4622833980957375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. In prior to that, one of the really, I guess it was fun and it was an adventure. And it was kind of scary too. All, there may have been six or seven women at that point. I'm not sure. There weren't any more than that. And we were taken out. And there had been several preliminary excursions into the wild, led by one of the trainers, where we would go out and we had to spend the night. We had to pitch our tent, spend the night, cook snails and eat them. Snails that we found on the ground, you know, land snails. Pretty much just stay out there by ourselves, not talk to anybody for that period of time. You know, there's something. And then let's say six, six, seven girls, women, young women were. We had backpacks and we were all outfitted with our boots and map, and we were taken out and dropped off at a certain point and we were supposed to find our way back to camp over a period of days. And not supposed to go to tiendas or little stores and buy food and all that kind of stuff. So that was quite an adventure. And it, you know, the adventure had to do with how well we were going to cooperate, who going to read the map, who's going to take orders, who's going to give orders."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall what role you played in the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I probably was not a leader at that point in terms of saying, this is how we need to do it. You know, I had opinions, definitely. But you know, somebody else probably felt like they wanted to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I gather you did work your way back to camp."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got back to camp. Saw some beautiful country, didn't get the disease that snails in that country transmit through the water, bilharzia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah. Did any of the six sort of indicate they were very uncomfortable with what was happening or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.274423948266342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got back to camp. Saw some beautiful country, didn't get the disease that snails in that country transmit through the water, bilharzia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK. Yeah. Did any of the six sort of indicate they were very uncomfortable with what was happening or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. There was no, you know, there was no great emotional upheaval in any of us. No, I don't think so. At least that's not my recollection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just knew we got back, and I remember the beautiful, beautiful landscapes in Puerto Rico and the beautiful streams and finding scorpions in our sleeping quarters and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, tell me about the family stay. How was that organized?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1720493117508117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they had evidently, the staff and Peace Corps there at the training centers, had gone out and had located families, and they may have used them before, although I don't know if they had or not. And I was assigned to a family in the southwest part of the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alone. Mm hmm. And it was parents and two boys, I believe, two early teenage boys. And the mother had cancer. So anyway. And it was not too far from the Presbyterian mission. It's called El Guacio. And so my jumping off point was that mission. So I was able to, I must have been dropped off there. Don't remember how I got there. But I could. And there was another volunteer with me who was going to go somewhere else in that southwest corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I never saw him after that. So I was trying to think of the name of the town. San Sebastian was the town, but we weren't in town. We were out in the country, out on a farm, little farm place. So I was able to stay at El Guacio that first night probably. And then I walked. I don't know how far I walked. I just remember that it was muddy and the dirt was red and I had white shoes. That dirt never came off. That red never came off. Funny recollection. But anyway, I found my way to their house. I don't know how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the name and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3022770130564574, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alone. Mm hmm. And it was parents and two boys, I believe, two early teenage boys. And the mother had cancer. So anyway. And it was not too far from the Presbyterian mission. It's called El Guacio. And so my jumping off point was that mission. So I was able to, I must have been dropped off there. Don't remember how I got there. But I could. And there was another volunteer with me who was going to go somewhere else in that southwest corner."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I never saw him after that. So I was trying to think of the name of the town. San Sebastian was the town, but we weren't in town. We were out in the country, out on a farm, little farm place. So I was able to stay at El Guacio that first night probably. And then I walked. I don't know how far I walked. I just remember that it was muddy and the dirt was red and I had white shoes. That dirt never came off. That red never came off. Funny recollection. But anyway, I found my way to their house. I don't know how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the name and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have had the name and more or less where it was located, and so I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple or just the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4469744589516194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I never saw him after that. So I was trying to think of the name of the town. San Sebastian was the town, but we weren't in town. We were out in the country, out on a farm, little farm place. So I was able to stay at El Guacio that first night probably. And then I walked. I don't know how far I walked. I just remember that it was muddy and the dirt was red and I had white shoes. That dirt never came off. That red never came off. Funny recollection. But anyway, I found my way to their house. I don't know how I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the name and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have had the name and more or less where it was located, and so I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple or just the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the couple, the parents and these two children. At least that, seemed like it was just those two boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of phase one, had you had another language test? Do you recall?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6077493988351326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I must have had the name and more or less where it was located, and so I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a couple or just the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the couple, the parents and these two children. At least that, seemed like it was just those two boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of phase one, had you had another language test? Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember. I can't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're walking through the mud to get to this, do you have any sense that you can speak Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7863882209279252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the couple, the parents and these two children. At least that, seemed like it was just those two boys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of phase one, had you had another language test? Do you recall?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember. I can't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're walking through the mud to get to this, do you have any sense that you can speak Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I don't know. Probably not. Probably, I probably I thought I could, and probably I thought I could understand a lot more than I was going to understand, frankly. I probably could not string a good sentence together because it was, you know, your fright level comes up when you think, I've got to make myself understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did it go with the?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.984875801031028, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I can't remember. I can't remember at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're walking through the mud to get to this, do you have any sense that you can speak Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I don't know. Probably not. Probably, I probably I thought I could, and probably I thought I could understand a lot more than I was going to understand, frankly. I probably could not string a good sentence together because it was, you know, your fright level comes up when you think, I've got to make myself understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did it go with the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was OK, you know. It was good to have those two boys because, you know, there was a jukebox right there. They must have had a little dance place or something. So music was a common denominator and I learned, I got to learn a lot of songs. Some songs I still remember from that period of time, and songs are a good way to learn Spanish too. And so I learned to play dominoes with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to adjust to the food?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.094306445590031, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I don't know. Probably not. Probably, I probably I thought I could, and probably I thought I could understand a lot more than I was going to understand, frankly. I probably could not string a good sentence together because it was, you know, your fright level comes up when you think, I've got to make myself understood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did it go with the?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was OK, you know. It was good to have those two boys because, you know, there was a jukebox right there. They must have had a little dance place or something. So music was a common denominator and I learned, I got to learn a lot of songs. Some songs I still remember from that period of time, and songs are a good way to learn Spanish too. And so I learned to play dominoes with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to adjust to the food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Didn't get sick. Not every day, but many days I would walk. I would, she would pack some kind of a little lunch, I guess, or a drink anyway. I would take orange juice. And I remember that sometimes the orange juice had ants in it because there were ants in the sugar or lemonade or something. So I can remember that experience. But I could walk, I don't remember how far, quite a ways, but I could walk to a town, a pretty good sized town. And so either out in the country or in town, probably was out in the country, I met a home demonstration agent, Puerto Rican, who was teaching different types of sewing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know she was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.21589605065559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess it was OK, you know. It was good to have those two boys because, you know, there was a jukebox right there. They must have had a little dance place or something. So music was a common denominator and I learned, I got to learn a lot of songs. Some songs I still remember from that period of time, and songs are a good way to learn Spanish too. And so I learned to play dominoes with them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you able to adjust to the food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Didn't get sick. Not every day, but many days I would walk. I would, she would pack some kind of a little lunch, I guess, or a drink anyway. I would take orange juice. And I remember that sometimes the orange juice had ants in it because there were ants in the sugar or lemonade or something. So I can remember that experience. But I could walk, I don't remember how far, quite a ways, but I could walk to a town, a pretty good sized town. And so either out in the country or in town, probably was out in the country, I met a home demonstration agent, Puerto Rican, who was teaching different types of sewing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know she was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just can't remember how I even met her, or maybe I met her in somebody else's house. I think I must have, I must have been visiting because I had some sense that. See, we were supposed to, we had a project out there. Well, we were supposed to assess the community, you know, not formally, but informally assess the community, figure out what their felt needs were, what their real needs were in terms of something grandiose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In two weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5011062353772717, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I just can't remember how I even met her, or maybe I met her in somebody else's house. I think I must have, I must have been visiting because I had some sense that. See, we were supposed to, we had a project out there. Well, we were supposed to assess the community, you know, not formally, but informally assess the community, figure out what their felt needs were, what their real needs were in terms of something grandiose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In two weeks?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, two weeks. Do they need an aqueduct? As if we were supposed to know. So figure out what the needs were and the same kind of thing that we would be doing in country. So I felt like I needed to talk to the people as best I could, although I'm not sure, I can't remember. I must have gone to people's houses, but I did go to where this home demonstration agent was having a class, and I must have gone several times, which was a good place to be because, you know, there were people there and I could listen. And so I remember, I still have a needlepoint thing that I did when I was there because I let her teach me how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great, and she was a young woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was about a two-week period?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6678958170858573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like, two weeks. Do they need an aqueduct? As if we were supposed to know. So figure out what the needs were and the same kind of thing that we would be doing in country. So I felt like I needed to talk to the people as best I could, although I'm not sure, I can't remember. I must have gone to people's houses, but I did go to where this home demonstration agent was having a class, and I must have gone several times, which was a good place to be because, you know, there were people there and I could listen. And so I remember, I still have a needlepoint thing that I did when I was there because I let her teach me how to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great, and she was a young woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was about a two-week period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me that it was, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find anyone with whom you could speak English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8532175745398414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was great, and she was a young woman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was about a two-week period?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me that it was, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find anyone with whom you could speak English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I don't remember. I did run into the other volunteer one time in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it'd be extraordinary to go two weeks and not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9480195272664905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It seems to me that it was, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find anyone with whom you could speak English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I don't remember. I did run into the other volunteer one time in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it'd be extraordinary to go two weeks and not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, exactly. I may have gone back to Guacio, you know, the mission, the Presbyterian mission during that period of time. I probably did. Like you say, would I remember that, my gosh, I haven't spoken to anybody in English for two weeks. You know, would I remember that? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this period is kind of modeling what you're going to be expected to do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0533550302961006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. I don't remember. I did run into the other volunteer one time in that town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it'd be extraordinary to go two weeks and not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, exactly. I may have gone back to Guacio, you know, the mission, the Presbyterian mission during that period of time. I probably did. Like you say, would I remember that, my gosh, I haven't spoken to anybody in English for two weeks. You know, would I remember that? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this period is kind of modeling what you're going to be expected to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you feel about it now? I mean, your role as a volunteer is beginning to get some definition."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1703944781067783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, exactly. I may have gone back to Guacio, you know, the mission, the Presbyterian mission during that period of time. I probably did. Like you say, would I remember that, my gosh, I haven't spoken to anybody in English for two weeks. You know, would I remember that? I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now this period is kind of modeling what you're going to be expected to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you feel about it now? I mean, your role as a volunteer is beginning to get some definition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I just knew that, well, I mean, at that point, you believe that what they're telling you what you're going to do in country is assess the community, figure out what the felt needs are, get to know the people, get to listen to them about what they what they're saying, and all that. And obviously now in hindsight, that's very idealistic, but you have to have a framework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3004383090075313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you feel about it now? I mean, your role as a volunteer is beginning to get some definition."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I just knew that, well, I mean, at that point, you believe that what they're telling you what you're going to do in country is assess the community, figure out what the felt needs are, get to know the people, get to listen to them about what they what they're saying, and all that. And obviously now in hindsight, that's very idealistic, but you have to have a framework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You accepted that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4449314544528125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I just knew that, well, I mean, at that point, you believe that what they're telling you what you're going to do in country is assess the community, figure out what the felt needs are, get to know the people, get to listen to them about what they what they're saying, and all that. And obviously now in hindsight, that's very idealistic, but you have to have a framework."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point, you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You accepted that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that makes sense."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6054793938364582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bought into it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You accepted that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you have to. You have to have a model. You have to have a framework to why are you here? What am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So since it did make sense, then you began to feel reasonably comfortable and put yourself into the."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.78386599315162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, that makes sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you have to. You have to have a model. You have to have a framework to why are you here? What am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So since it did make sense, then you began to feel reasonably comfortable and put yourself into the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I even came up with a project, and I can't remember what it was now. But I just I remember we had to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't building an aqueduct."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.8709622146129111, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because you have to. You have to have a model. You have to have a framework to why are you here? What am I doing here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So since it did make sense, then you began to feel reasonably comfortable and put yourself into the."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I even came up with a project, and I can't remember what it was now. But I just I remember we had to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't building an aqueduct."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had something to do with water. I can't remember what. Yeah, it did have something to do with water. We were to report. I don't think we ever went back to the camp in Arecibo. My recollection is we might have gone directly from staying with that family to San Juan to a particular motel, the hotel, where we gathered as a group. And we and I remember we all came in from the hinterlands, you know, and I think I was one of the last ones to get there because I probably had farther to come to. And then we reported on our stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.0752619933492729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It had something to do with water. I can't remember what. Yeah, it did have something to do with water. We were to report. I don't think we ever went back to the camp in Arecibo. My recollection is we might have gone directly from staying with that family to San Juan to a particular motel, the hotel, where we gathered as a group. And we and I remember we all came in from the hinterlands, you know, and I think I was one of the last ones to get there because I probably had farther to come to. And then we reported on our stay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the group, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Yes, in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now this is the end of the Puerto Rican phase of training."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1947355481658586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To the group, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Yes, in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now this is the end of the Puerto Rican phase of training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we must have. Then that's when we flew home, I guess, for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, just to finish. What do you recall any final selection or had it just been going along all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3274839424065095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. Yes, in English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now this is the end of the Puerto Rican phase of training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then we must have. Then that's when we flew home, I guess, for two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, just to finish. What do you recall any final selection or had it just been going along all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't. I don't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No point when someone walked in a room and said, well, you're all going."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6388690646993942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't. I don't recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No point when someone walked in a room and said, well, you're all going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall that. I don't recall any division of us, or I don't recall at that point somebody saying, you know, so-and-so is not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, did you do any peer preference reporting? In other words, if you're going to be assigned, you'd like to be assigned with X, or you didn't want to be assigned with X."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8209656274437713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall that. I don't recall any division of us, or I don't recall at that point somebody saying, you know, so-and-so is not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, did you do any peer preference reporting? In other words, if you're going to be assigned, you'd like to be assigned with X, or you didn't want to be assigned with X."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't recall that. I don't recall that at all. We may have, but if so, it didn't leave a wrinkle in my brain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone explain why you were going to get home leave for two weeks? Did it relate to the political situation?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.02329514160419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall that. I don't recall any division of us, or I don't recall at that point somebody saying, you know, so-and-so is not going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During training, did you do any peer preference reporting? In other words, if you're going to be assigned, you'd like to be assigned with X, or you didn't want to be assigned with X."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't recall that. I don't recall that at all. We may have, but if so, it didn't leave a wrinkle in my brain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone explain why you were going to get home leave for two weeks? Did it relate to the political situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I just thought it was probably standard operating procedure. But it wasn't, because I've talked to other volunteers that didn't. I mean, not only was that a break in our training and our mindset, you know, here we are back then wherever we came from. And the language, you know, two weeks off when we don't have to hear the language and look at the expense, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no one, was there any kind of rumor mongering that, well, things are probably not that good right now in Dominican Republic. So they want to give this."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2481057128935444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't recall that. I don't recall that at all. We may have, but if so, it didn't leave a wrinkle in my brain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone explain why you were going to get home leave for two weeks? Did it relate to the political situation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I just thought it was probably standard operating procedure. But it wasn't, because I've talked to other volunteers that didn't. I mean, not only was that a break in our training and our mindset, you know, here we are back then wherever we came from. And the language, you know, two weeks off when we don't have to hear the language and look at the expense, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no one, was there any kind of rumor mongering that, well, things are probably not that good right now in Dominican Republic. So they want to give this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, fine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.497895236548383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I just thought it was probably standard operating procedure. But it wasn't, because I've talked to other volunteers that didn't. I mean, not only was that a break in our training and our mindset, you know, here we are back then wherever we came from. And the language, you know, two weeks off when we don't have to hear the language and look at the expense, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no one, was there any kind of rumor mongering that, well, things are probably not that good right now in Dominican Republic. So they want to give this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I just don't recall that. And again, I thought it was probably it may be because of training on the island there in Puerto Rico, that was standard operating procedure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you went home."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.775439151720425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right, fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I just don't recall that. And again, I thought it was probably it may be because of training on the island there in Puerto Rico, that was standard operating procedure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you went home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to northwest Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You folks had another shot at you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0838212796893614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't, I just don't recall that. And again, I thought it was probably it may be because of training on the island there in Puerto Rico, that was standard operating procedure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you went home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to northwest Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You folks had another shot at you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel more confident talking about what you were going to be doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.426468088543735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went back to northwest Iowa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You folks had another shot at you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel more confident talking about what you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you did not discuss the political situation in any depth."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.807186765048594, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel more confident talking about what you were going to be doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I assume you did not discuss the political situation in any depth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not sure I could have at that point, except I knew that there were. I don't think that, they certainly weren't tuned into it. And maybe that was good, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's it. Did they know that there was a revolution that had just taken place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.700230574134067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I'm not sure I could have at that point, except I knew that there were. I don't think that, they certainly weren't tuned into it. And maybe that was good, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's it. Did they know that there was a revolution that had just taken place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. And I don't remember. I didn't go into great detail. I suppose they always perceived that whenever you left the American shore, there was going to be danger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if only they knew what now, right, now it is that way. But in those days, relatively safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the two weeks, what did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.691642684116132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if only they knew what now, right, now it is that way. But in those days, relatively safe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the two weeks, what did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gained about ten pounds. I ate and saw my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of your friends try to dissuade you at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2129363156845905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I ate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gained about ten pounds. I ate and saw my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of your friends try to dissuade you at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. Don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of big send off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.792151461871767, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I gained about ten pounds. I ate and saw my family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any of your friends try to dissuade you at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. Don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of big send off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, certainly had family gathering. You know, where grandma cooked and everybody came? And uh, yeah. Saw everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, was there anyone in the family who was putting a positive cast on what it was that you were doing? I mean, echoes of Kennedy sort of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.324612735413075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nope. Don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of big send off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, certainly had family gathering. You know, where grandma cooked and everybody came? And uh, yeah. Saw everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, was there anyone in the family who was putting a positive cast on what it was that you were doing? I mean, echoes of Kennedy sort of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It certainly was not, even from my dad at that point, it wasn't negative. I mean, it's just that I could, I gathered, I knew that he was not overjoyed with my decision, but in terms of everyday reminding me, you know, you shouldn't do this or whatever. No, I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were pretty firm in your conviction about going."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.573595969645771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It certainly was not, even from my dad at that point, it wasn't negative. I mean, it's just that I could, I gathered, I knew that he was not overjoyed with my decision, but in terms of everyday reminding me, you know, you shouldn't do this or whatever. No, I don't recall that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were pretty firm in your conviction about going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's get you there. What now after the two weeks? What happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.192884410717523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's get you there. What now after the two weeks? What happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember if we flew like to Miami and then on to the D.R. But anyway, got to the D.R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That was the whole group of you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.880982678575026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was going."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's get you there. What now after the two weeks? What happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember if we flew like to Miami and then on to the D.R. But anyway, got to the D.R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That was the whole group of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as far as you know, you're all CD volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.645536309527807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember if we flew like to Miami and then on to the D.R. But anyway, got to the D.R."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. That was the whole group of you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as far as you know, you're all CD volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you remember your arrival?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1617070105864515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as far as you know, you're all CD volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Do you remember your arrival?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not, I remember getting off the plane and it was steamy and hot. I remember that part. And I'm trying to remember when we knew where we were going to be assigned. We must have ended up in another one of those hotels where we have meetings and they determined where we were going. Because I went with one, well, there were probably four of us that were sent kind of in the same direction, way out into the southwest corner of the island. And I was in Neiba, a town called N-E-I-B-A [also spelled Neyba], and there were two other. And there were other volunteers already there from previous groups, by the way. Now that I think about that. I don't think there was anyone assigned from my group to Neiba besides me, but there were other volunteers there and there had been from the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were community development volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.150255568625249, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not, I remember getting off the plane and it was steamy and hot. I remember that part. And I'm trying to remember when we knew where we were going to be assigned. We must have ended up in another one of those hotels where we have meetings and they determined where we were going. Because I went with one, well, there were probably four of us that were sent kind of in the same direction, way out into the southwest corner of the island. And I was in Neiba, a town called N-E-I-B-A [also spelled Neyba], and there were two other. And there were other volunteers already there from previous groups, by the way. Now that I think about that. I don't think there was anyone assigned from my group to Neiba besides me, but there were other volunteers there and there had been from the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they were community development volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, one was a geologist and had been, several of them were geologists and had been in well drilling and water issues. And one of the interesting things was that the Dominican Republic at that point had a community development organization in their government. One of the, they had a branch that was community development, and it had but only for men. And so only the male parts of our group were assigned to the government's community development program. The women were on our own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own. And so I remember they gave me a, \"they\" must have been the Peace Corps in Santo Domingo, probably through CARE or something. I had a sewing machine that I was supposed to take out there and take it to the sewing school because most of those communities of any size had programs already ongoing. And one of them, not that they were all functioning well, but there was a woman teaching sewing in a little government school there, all kinds of sewing. So I ended up, that's where this machine went, was to this school. And when I first went there, let me think where. I remember staying, hmm, with the family. But I can't remember how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did one of the old volunteers arrange it for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.611395076250276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, one was a geologist and had been, several of them were geologists and had been in well drilling and water issues. And one of the interesting things was that the Dominican Republic at that point had a community development organization in their government. One of the, they had a branch that was community development, and it had but only for men. And so only the male parts of our group were assigned to the government's community development program. The women were on our own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own. And so I remember they gave me a, \"they\" must have been the Peace Corps in Santo Domingo, probably through CARE or something. I had a sewing machine that I was supposed to take out there and take it to the sewing school because most of those communities of any size had programs already ongoing. And one of them, not that they were all functioning well, but there was a woman teaching sewing in a little government school there, all kinds of sewing. So I ended up, that's where this machine went, was to this school. And when I first went there, let me think where. I remember staying, hmm, with the family. But I can't remember how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did one of the old volunteers arrange it for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, maybe that was what happened, that somebody from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far from the capital was Neiba?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.123772306944751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On our own. And so I remember they gave me a, \"they\" must have been the Peace Corps in Santo Domingo, probably through CARE or something. I had a sewing machine that I was supposed to take out there and take it to the sewing school because most of those communities of any size had programs already ongoing. And one of them, not that they were all functioning well, but there was a woman teaching sewing in a little government school there, all kinds of sewing. So I ended up, that's where this machine went, was to this school. And when I first went there, let me think where. I remember staying, hmm, with the family. But I can't remember how."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did one of the old volunteers arrange it for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, maybe that was what happened, that somebody from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far from the capital was Neiba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About as far as you can get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4708581188275014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe some, maybe that was what happened, that somebody from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How far from the capital was Neiba?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "About as far as you can get."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably took about four hours maybe, three or four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.285010023243829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It probably took about four hours maybe, three or four hours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Publicos, public cars, like taxis that ran between towns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were, you could go to a certain, you could call. I guess, we must have been able to call a taxi in the capital city and there would be cars going to Neiba or going to the southwest. And sometimes you had to go to a certain town and then get another car to Neiba. But most often you could get one. And when you're in Neiba and you wanted to come back, it was a little easier because you knew certain people. There weren't that many people leaving Neiba to go to the capital with their public car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to back up a little bit because of the political sensitivity of what you were doing. Was there anywhere along during training or in your initial time in the country where you had a sense that there were CIA people in your group or looking at your group or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.761122248048698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Publicos, public cars, like taxis that ran between towns."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were, you could go to a certain, you could call. I guess, we must have been able to call a taxi in the capital city and there would be cars going to Neiba or going to the southwest. And sometimes you had to go to a certain town and then get another car to Neiba. But most often you could get one. And when you're in Neiba and you wanted to come back, it was a little easier because you knew certain people. There weren't that many people leaving Neiba to go to the capital with their public car."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just to back up a little bit because of the political sensitivity of what you were doing. Was there anywhere along during training or in your initial time in the country where you had a sense that there were CIA people in your group or looking at your group or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It could have been. I was totally unaware. So focused on me and what's going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall anyone, when you first came in, there must have been staging with some of the Peace Corps staff? Do you recall any of them saying be alert to the fact that strangers may come up, Americans, and try to get information from you? Was there ever any mention of CIA?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.877928701294689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. It could have been. I was totally unaware. So focused on me and what's going to happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall anyone, when you first came in, there must have been staging with some of the Peace Corps staff? Do you recall any of them saying be alert to the fact that strangers may come up, Americans, and try to get information from you? Was there ever any mention of CIA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the time that I was in Neiba, however, there was a special contingent of special forces troops that brought a helicopter in there. They rented a house and they had a medic among them. And so they set up, supposedly it was to serve the people. And so the medic attended to people, gave shots, probably whatever, helped people that were sick. And I think there were four of them. They were in uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3088096681052095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the time that I was in Neiba, however, there was a special contingent of special forces troops that brought a helicopter in there. They rented a house and they had a medic among them. And so they set up, supposedly it was to serve the people. And so the medic attended to people, gave shots, probably whatever, helped people that were sick. And I think there were four of them. They were in uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not to talk to them. You know, that was the bottom line of course. Now I won't, you know, the idea was that even if you saw them on the street, particularly if you saw them in public, you were not to acknowledge them, which was a little ridiculous. But because we didn't want to give the impression to the Dominicans that we were a part of that, you know, a part of it. So I remember talking, but I can't remember where that would have happened, to the major whatever. But just in passing. I mean, it wasn't anything that, you know, we didn't spend time together or anything like that. But they were there, right there, and it wasn't that large a town. It was a provincial capital, but it was clear out there next, not very far from the Haitian border, see, the border was very close. So, you know, they could call it a peacekeeping force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you near the coast or on the coast?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.787566297894677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the time that I was in Neiba, however, there was a special contingent of special forces troops that brought a helicopter in there. They rented a house and they had a medic among them. And so they set up, supposedly it was to serve the people. And so the medic attended to people, gave shots, probably whatever, helped people that were sick. And I think there were four of them. They were in uniform."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not to talk to them. You know, that was the bottom line of course. Now I won't, you know, the idea was that even if you saw them on the street, particularly if you saw them in public, you were not to acknowledge them, which was a little ridiculous. But because we didn't want to give the impression to the Dominicans that we were a part of that, you know, a part of it. So I remember talking, but I can't remember where that would have happened, to the major whatever. But just in passing. I mean, it wasn't anything that, you know, we didn't spend time together or anything like that. But they were there, right there, and it wasn't that large a town. It was a provincial capital, but it was clear out there next, not very far from the Haitian border, see, the border was very close. So, you know, they could call it a peacekeeping force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you near the coast or on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The southern coast. Not too, you know, relatively speaking, it was close to the southern coast. Yeah. Not all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to your arriving in the town, getting with a family. You're carrying your sewing machine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.319518108771863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were not to talk to them. You know, that was the bottom line of course. Now I won't, you know, the idea was that even if you saw them on the street, particularly if you saw them in public, you were not to acknowledge them, which was a little ridiculous. But because we didn't want to give the impression to the Dominicans that we were a part of that, you know, a part of it. So I remember talking, but I can't remember where that would have happened, to the major whatever. But just in passing. I mean, it wasn't anything that, you know, we didn't spend time together or anything like that. But they were there, right there, and it wasn't that large a town. It was a provincial capital, but it was clear out there next, not very far from the Haitian border, see, the border was very close. So, you know, they could call it a peacekeeping force."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you near the coast or on the coast?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The southern coast. Not too, you know, relatively speaking, it was close to the southern coast. Yeah. Not all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to your arriving in the town, getting with a family. You're carrying your sewing machine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I can't remember. Somehow I got that sewing machine out there and I stayed with, you know, there must have been. I think there was a, there must have been a Dominican woman who had been assigned out there, maybe to develop schools. You know, that was a big thing. You build schools. It seems to me that there was somebody who was there who was leaving, so I believe I stayed with her or whoever she was living with for a short period of time until I could find a place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she bilingual?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.910575676413181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The southern coast. Not too, you know, relatively speaking, it was close to the southern coast. Yeah. Not all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go back to your arriving in the town, getting with a family. You're carrying your sewing machine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess so. I can't remember. Somehow I got that sewing machine out there and I stayed with, you know, there must have been. I think there was a, there must have been a Dominican woman who had been assigned out there, maybe to develop schools. You know, that was a big thing. You build schools. It seems to me that there was somebody who was there who was leaving, so I believe I stayed with her or whoever she was living with for a short period of time until I could find a place to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she bilingual?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. And heaven only knows how I got by, because I didn't. Now, in hindsight, because I still use my language a lot now, and I've gotten a lot more proficient. And so in hindsight I think, how did I get by? I mean, what did I know how to say? I mean, I don't know. I truly don't. But anyway, it was helpful that I was not the first volunteer in that country, in that town. I mean, there were others, they were all men that had been there, and there was one that was leaving shortly. He'd been in, I think, well drilling or water, working with water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the old volunteers try to sort of take you aside to kind of clue you into what was going on?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:293", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.074784785695286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. And heaven only knows how I got by, because I didn't. Now, in hindsight, because I still use my language a lot now, and I've gotten a lot more proficient. And so in hindsight I think, how did I get by? I mean, what did I know how to say? I mean, I don't know. I truly don't. But anyway, it was helpful that I was not the first volunteer in that country, in that town. I mean, there were others, they were all men that had been there, and there was one that was leaving shortly. He'd been in, I think, well drilling or water, working with water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any of the old volunteers try to sort of take you aside to kind of clue you into what was going on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. For example, where could I get a house, you know, where can I live? And let me think here again. I go over this one because I think that, yes, I probably found the first place that I lived from another volunteer who said, you know, they're renting this house. It was right there, downtown, on the public square. So after a period of time, I moved there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Alone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, alone. And we took our meals. The other volunteers were accustomed to taking their meals with right there, up from where I lived, a woman who had a dining room for the public. It was her house, but she had tables set up and you could pay her by the month. And so volunteers, we got to know her very well, Dona Julia, and we took our meals there. But I also had a stove, you know, of my own and I could cook some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in sending you out to this village. You knew that the men had assignments under the community development ministry or department, whatever it was. What did Peace Corps say to you was your mission, since you were not going to be, would not have the cover of a ministry or department? Good luck?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.265166402092945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, alone. And we took our meals. The other volunteers were accustomed to taking their meals with right there, up from where I lived, a woman who had a dining room for the public. It was her house, but she had tables set up and you could pay her by the month. And so volunteers, we got to know her very well, Dona Julia, and we took our meals there. But I also had a stove, you know, of my own and I could cook some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just in sending you out to this village. You knew that the men had assignments under the community development ministry or department, whatever it was. What did Peace Corps say to you was your mission, since you were not going to be, would not have the cover of a ministry or department? Good luck?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they said that much, they might have said that. But, you know, it was certainly a time of, um, insecurity is not the right word, but lack of direction I would say. Certainly it lacked, of course that's true in community development, right? I mean, you have to live with some of that. And of course, that had been my background. I mean, sociology is pretty nebulous too, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I, that was not my background in terms of how I was raised, in terms of being from a farm and very, very concrete. Let's accomplish this and get this done. So but still, my sense was that I was supposed to see what was happening in the community. And eventually there was a Dominican woman who was assigned, probably to replace this woman that had gone to work with schools. And try to develop schools and try to do. Another big thing that I just remembered I worked on were anti-parasite campaigns, you know, because there were a lot of worms there and because of no shoes and poor water and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have no training in public health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.961296002325494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If they said that much, they might have said that. But, you know, it was certainly a time of, um, insecurity is not the right word, but lack of direction I would say. Certainly it lacked, of course that's true in community development, right? I mean, you have to live with some of that. And of course, that had been my background. I mean, sociology is pretty nebulous too, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I, that was not my background in terms of how I was raised, in terms of being from a farm and very, very concrete. Let's accomplish this and get this done. So but still, my sense was that I was supposed to see what was happening in the community. And eventually there was a Dominican woman who was assigned, probably to replace this woman that had gone to work with schools. And try to develop schools and try to do. Another big thing that I just remembered I worked on were anti-parasite campaigns, you know, because there were a lot of worms there and because of no shoes and poor water and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have no training in public health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or in particular diseases?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1792177803616606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Although I, that was not my background in terms of how I was raised, in terms of being from a farm and very, very concrete. Let's accomplish this and get this done. So but still, my sense was that I was supposed to see what was happening in the community. And eventually there was a Dominican woman who was assigned, probably to replace this woman that had gone to work with schools. And try to develop schools and try to do. Another big thing that I just remembered I worked on were anti-parasite campaigns, you know, because there were a lot of worms there and because of no shoes and poor water and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you have no training in public health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or in particular diseases?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly couldn't. We had a lot of training in Puerto Rico, but not the diseases. About what to expect about the food, about families, that sort of thing. But no, I couldn't give shots, and I'm glad I couldn't, of course, and wouldn't have, obviously. But this promotora, that's what they call the Dominican counterpart of the men, promoter, promatora, did. Could give shots, and so it wasn't an immunization campaign as such, now that I think about it. It was we would give the liquid anti-parasite medicine. Piperazine, it seems to me, was the name of that. And I think we got that, you know, got that through the CARE program, through the Catholic fathers that were there in town. There were two Belgium fathers there and great contacts for me. I could go up there and speak English and talk to them and read their Time magazine, etcetera. So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the woman with whom you were working?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.421353089290734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not as such."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or in particular diseases?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly couldn't. We had a lot of training in Puerto Rico, but not the diseases. About what to expect about the food, about families, that sort of thing. But no, I couldn't give shots, and I'm glad I couldn't, of course, and wouldn't have, obviously. But this promotora, that's what they call the Dominican counterpart of the men, promoter, promatora, did. Could give shots, and so it wasn't an immunization campaign as such, now that I think about it. It was we would give the liquid anti-parasite medicine. Piperazine, it seems to me, was the name of that. And I think we got that, you know, got that through the CARE program, through the Catholic fathers that were there in town. There were two Belgium fathers there and great contacts for me. I could go up there and speak English and talk to them and read their Time magazine, etcetera. So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the woman with whom you were working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her perception of who you are?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6903923214341487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I certainly couldn't. We had a lot of training in Puerto Rico, but not the diseases. About what to expect about the food, about families, that sort of thing. But no, I couldn't give shots, and I'm glad I couldn't, of course, and wouldn't have, obviously. But this promotora, that's what they call the Dominican counterpart of the men, promoter, promatora, did. Could give shots, and so it wasn't an immunization campaign as such, now that I think about it. It was we would give the liquid anti-parasite medicine. Piperazine, it seems to me, was the name of that. And I think we got that, you know, got that through the CARE program, through the Catholic fathers that were there in town. There were two Belgium fathers there and great contacts for me. I could go up there and speak English and talk to them and read their Time magazine, etcetera. So anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the woman with whom you were working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her perception of who you are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "God only knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you become friends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9893248015934986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was her perception of who you are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "God only knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you become friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as much as I could with my limited. You know, to be a friend to somebody, you've got to be able to communicate at some level besides the very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joke and tell stories."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.321472001770554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "God only knows."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you become friends?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as much as I could with my limited. You know, to be a friend to somebody, you've got to be able to communicate at some level besides the very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joke and tell stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. But we did go out into the neighborhoods together and visited the different neighborhoods, and I spent a lot of time again walking. You know, there were like little barrios outside of this provincial capital, very poor areas, but somehow people were very open, you know, they'd invite you in for something to drink or whatever. So I spent a fair amount of time visiting this area and then I'd go over here and I'd establish some contacts and listen and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just open ended, though, at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6905244464117266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as much as I could with my limited. You know, to be a friend to somebody, you've got to be able to communicate at some level besides the very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joke and tell stories."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. But we did go out into the neighborhoods together and visited the different neighborhoods, and I spent a lot of time again walking. You know, there were like little barrios outside of this provincial capital, very poor areas, but somehow people were very open, you know, they'd invite you in for something to drink or whatever. So I spent a fair amount of time visiting this area and then I'd go over here and I'd establish some contacts and listen and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just open ended, though, at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty open ended. Eventually, I taught literacy in one of these poorer areas. The children were not in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take this first six months you're in the village. How often did you go back to the capital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.100582718235252, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly. But we did go out into the neighborhoods together and visited the different neighborhoods, and I spent a lot of time again walking. You know, there were like little barrios outside of this provincial capital, very poor areas, but somehow people were very open, you know, they'd invite you in for something to drink or whatever. So I spent a fair amount of time visiting this area and then I'd go over here and I'd establish some contacts and listen and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So just open ended, though, at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty open ended. Eventually, I taught literacy in one of these poorer areas. The children were not in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take this first six months you're in the village. How often did you go back to the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, what did you do about the first Thanksgiving and Christmas and all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4450919091502805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty open ended. Eventually, I taught literacy in one of these poorer areas. The children were not in school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's take this first six months you're in the village. How often did you go back to the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, what did you do about the first Thanksgiving and Christmas and all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I went in the middle of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some homesickness in there somewhere."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8278798990558673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very often. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you, what did you do about the first Thanksgiving and Christmas and all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I went in the middle of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some homesickness in there somewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I guess so. I can't remember. But the fact that there were other volunteers there, so we got together. Sometimes they came in and they could come to my house, for example. I don't remember, but by that time I was probably teaching English as a second language because somebody else, a previous volunteer, there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of the barrios?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.253199887839853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I went in the middle of the year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some homesickness in there somewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I guess so. I can't remember. But the fact that there were other volunteers there, so we got together. Sometimes they came in and they could come to my house, for example. I don't remember, but by that time I was probably teaching English as a second language because somebody else, a previous volunteer, there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of the barrios?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that was in the main part of town. See, I was able to get to know some people at both ends of the economic scale. And the teacher of English in the high school and her daughter and a daughter of the restaurant owners and several other people that were in high school age. And the teacher, another teacher, were part of my first English as a Second Language group, and it was right there across the plaza from where I was. And they'd already learned some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a structure there and they came to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.725777653155392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gosh, I guess so. I can't remember. But the fact that there were other volunteers there, so we got together. Sometimes they came in and they could come to my house, for example. I don't remember, but by that time I was probably teaching English as a second language because somebody else, a previous volunteer, there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of the barrios?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that was in the main part of town. See, I was able to get to know some people at both ends of the economic scale. And the teacher of English in the high school and her daughter and a daughter of the restaurant owners and several other people that were in high school age. And the teacher, another teacher, were part of my first English as a Second Language group, and it was right there across the plaza from where I was. And they'd already learned some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a structure there and they came to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came to me and I had, I remember saying and thinking, saying probably to myself, I will not, you know, I'm not going there to teach English. That's not why I'm going there. But it was a great entree into the community. It was a great way to get to know people and for them to get to know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't know anything about teaching English as a second language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.139752947950435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, actually, that was in the main part of town. See, I was able to get to know some people at both ends of the economic scale. And the teacher of English in the high school and her daughter and a daughter of the restaurant owners and several other people that were in high school age. And the teacher, another teacher, were part of my first English as a Second Language group, and it was right there across the plaza from where I was. And they'd already learned some English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so there was a structure there and they came to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came to me and I had, I remember saying and thinking, saying probably to myself, I will not, you know, I'm not going there to teach English. That's not why I'm going there. But it was a great entree into the community. It was a great way to get to know people and for them to get to know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't know anything about teaching English as a second language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I've done it since that time. And but there was a series of books that one could get from either USAID or the embassy. I got them in the capital city. And you just followed from one book to the next and there was a teacher's manual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you meet with the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.599725497722705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They came to me and I had, I remember saying and thinking, saying probably to myself, I will not, you know, I'm not going there to teach English. That's not why I'm going there. But it was a great entree into the community. It was a great way to get to know people and for them to get to know me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you didn't know anything about teaching English as a second language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I've done it since that time. And but there was a series of books that one could get from either USAID or the embassy. I got them in the capital city. And you just followed from one book to the next and there was a teacher's manual."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How often would you meet with the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Often. That group, we met. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was still within the first six months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.110772219410747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Often. That group, we met. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was still within the first six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the reason I'm relating back to this, it seems to me that part of that group and I got together like first Thanksgiving and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our first Christmas or something during that latter part of that year. I remember the pictures that were taken, and I remember this one student that was in my class. So they didn't, they had some sense that they didn't want me to be alone, either, you know, so that we would get them to come together and share food or whatever. But I think it was within that first six weeks. So, you know, I had to, I must have gone to the capital to pick up those books, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2341913549008299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the reason I'm relating back to this, it seems to me that part of that group and I got together like first Thanksgiving and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our first Christmas or something during that latter part of that year. I remember the pictures that were taken, and I remember this one student that was in my class. So they didn't, they had some sense that they didn't want me to be alone, either, you know, so that we would get them to come together and share food or whatever. But I think it was within that first six weeks. So, you know, I had to, I must have gone to the capital to pick up those books, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't make a point of going to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's turn it around. Did any of the Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3713237276675887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our first Christmas or something during that latter part of that year. I remember the pictures that were taken, and I remember this one student that was in my class. So they didn't, they had some sense that they didn't want me to be alone, either, you know, so that we would get them to come together and share food or whatever. But I think it was within that first six weeks. So, you know, I had to, I must have gone to the capital to pick up those books, but I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't make a point of going to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's turn it around. Did any of the Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.523693030741765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't make a point of going to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's turn it around. Did any of the Peace Corps staff come out to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'll say yes. They came several times and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature of their visits?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.692992256379739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'll say yes. They came several times and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature of their visits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just some sense that they were seeing how we were doing personally, how we had adjusted. Because obviously one could get very detached from reality if you weren't careful. You've been there. You know, and you get isolated and you're beginning to wonder after a while, what am I doing here? And who cares? And so some of it was just to touch base with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through that kind of, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.881102507088599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I'll say yes. They came several times and I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the nature of their visits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just some sense that they were seeing how we were doing personally, how we had adjusted. Because obviously one could get very detached from reality if you weren't careful. You've been there. You know, and you get isolated and you're beginning to wonder after a while, what am I doing here? And who cares? And so some of it was just to touch base with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through that kind of, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. I mean, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.09011389676511, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was just some sense that they were seeing how we were doing personally, how we had adjusted. Because obviously one could get very detached from reality if you weren't careful. You've been there. You know, and you get isolated and you're beginning to wonder after a while, what am I doing here? And who cares? And so some of it was just to touch base with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go through that kind of, I mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. I mean, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was there a point within the first maybe half year where you said to yourself, oh my goodness, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer and I'm here and I'm doing this. In other words, was there any kind of joy or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3223487741834554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I'm sure. I mean, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At some point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was there a point within the first maybe half year where you said to yourself, oh my goodness, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer and I'm here and I'm doing this. In other words, was there any kind of joy or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, I think so. It seems to me that there was enough joy that, oh yeah, I was having a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was your health during the first year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:345", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.580387526870506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But was there a point within the first maybe half year where you said to yourself, oh my goodness, I'm a Peace Corps volunteer and I'm here and I'm doing this. In other words, was there any kind of joy or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, I think so. It seems to me that there was enough joy that, oh yeah, I was having a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was your health during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good, good. In fact, I never really never got that sick. I didn't get, I didn't have any major problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now for the village you were in, that whole area. Politically, was it stable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8670972520783398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, yeah, I think so. It seems to me that there was enough joy that, oh yeah, I was having a great time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was your health during the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good, good. In fact, I never really never got that sick. I didn't get, I didn't have any major problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now for the village you were in, that whole area. Politically, was it stable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, there was a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than the American soldiers with the helicopter."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.539626237133753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, there was a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Other than the American soldiers with the helicopter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, I would say yes, it was. There was a, I keep saying fort. There was a military establishment there because that was very common in the provincial capitals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dominican?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, where you saw men with uniforms and guns and things of that nature. But yes, it was quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone make political comments in your presence? Do you recall if you were, did people know you were an American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.821806930148614, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, I would say yes, it was. There was a, I keep saying fort. There was a military establishment there because that was very common in the provincial capitals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dominican?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, where you saw men with uniforms and guns and things of that nature. But yes, it was quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone make political comments in your presence? Do you recall if you were, did people know you were an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.13534103349846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, where you saw men with uniforms and guns and things of that nature. But yes, it was quiet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did anyone make political comments in your presence? Do you recall if you were, did people know you were an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a radio?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:357", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.372601148331622, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a radio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6362234981462467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, that was true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a radio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.929137220162496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about taking pictures?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2545969112916624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about taking pictures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one had advised me from the Peace Corps not to take pictures. Yeah. But I began to gather that that probably wasn't always a good idea. But I didn't, I don't think I connected it at that time between them thinking I was a spy, although, or you know, or something of that nature. Because I don't think anybody was very sophisticated in those days about, oh my gosh, this American. But I mean, in terms of our group. But no one had ever said, don't, you know, be careful what pictures you take or be careful where you are with your camera. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the area you were in was relatively stable?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6162187903240692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about taking pictures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No one had advised me from the Peace Corps not to take pictures. Yeah. But I began to gather that that probably wasn't always a good idea. But I didn't, I don't think I connected it at that time between them thinking I was a spy, although, or you know, or something of that nature. Because I don't think anybody was very sophisticated in those days about, oh my gosh, this American. But I mean, in terms of our group. But no one had ever said, don't, you know, be careful what pictures you take or be careful where you are with your camera. No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the area you were in was relatively stable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. By the end of the first year, did you take any vacation at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.464467642375394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. By the end of the first year, did you take any vacation at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never. Yes, I did go to Puerto Rico once, went back to Puerto Rico. And we, of course, couldn't come back to the United States, or were not supposed to. We could not come back to the United States. So I went to Puerto Rico once, and I believe I went back down into that southwest corner and visited my family, the family that I stayed with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then several times in country, there was a favorite place that I would go. You take a public car to an area that was, it was green and verdant, and they grew strawberries and there was a motel there, hotel, that I could stay in and they had a sewing machine. And so I would frequently go up there and sew, you know, make clothes. Because I made, just because partly of necessity, I made a lot of my own clothes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By within the first year, sometimes people get a friend from within the culture, within the environment they're working in, who sort of becomes the informant or the mentor, you know? Did that happen with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4203945711596626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If it did, it probably was not any kind of deep friendship but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But let's say this one English class, the English class of the people from the center part of town, might advise me about, oh, don't go there. And I can remember one time when I was living in the first house. It had windows, not windows, but openings that with doors that you like a shutter that you pull shut and hook on the inside. And the son of the woman who. And I had those open one night. It was dark, but it wasn't late. And the son of the woman whose home that was came by and said that it was time to close, the time to close my doors. You know, was kind of looking out after me, you know, little things like that. But I would say that there was a young woman, her parents were from Taiwan, and they ran the little restaurant bakery right at the corner, right up there. Teresita was her name. And she had studied English before, and she wanted very badly to learn more. And she spoke, you know, she was in that English class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:377", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.689327301288514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But let's say this one English class, the English class of the people from the center part of town, might advise me about, oh, don't go there. And I can remember one time when I was living in the first house. It had windows, not windows, but openings that with doors that you like a shutter that you pull shut and hook on the inside. And the son of the woman who. And I had those open one night. It was dark, but it wasn't late. And the son of the woman whose home that was came by and said that it was time to close, the time to close my doors. You know, was kind of looking out after me, you know, little things like that. But I would say that there was a young woman, her parents were from Taiwan, and they ran the little restaurant bakery right at the corner, right up there. Teresita was her name. And she had studied English before, and she wanted very badly to learn more. And she spoke, you know, she was in that English class."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.988141445876127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much, much improved. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3201571620845853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much, much improved. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.689063513427317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Much, much improved. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had three different groups of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three by then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0989594593636856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had three different groups of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Three by then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and two of them met in my house. So I'd had to have a blackboard made and had a table made, you know, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get the funds for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.060443776992204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and two of them met in my house. So I'd had to have a blackboard made and had a table made, you know, things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you get the funds for that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if I just took them out of, you know, we got paid. We would go to, um, there was a. Where was that man? He had a business there and a business probably in more than one town, but dry goods, that sort of thing. And he would cash our checks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you writing home during this whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.622715307769115, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember if I just took them out of, you know, we got paid. We would go to, um, there was a. Where was that man? He had a business there and a business probably in more than one town, but dry goods, that sort of thing. And he would cash our checks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you writing home during this whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to call home if you wanted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.247461453076795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you writing home during this whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to call home if you wanted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did. I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.719401614529772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you be able to call home if you wanted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did. I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, during those first months, I frequently. [tape break] Well, during that first, I don't know, probably six months, it was a matter of trying to decide where I could plug in, what was going on in town. What could I do? What should I do? How could I begin to understand if there was a niche? So I went back to the sewing school with some regularity to start with. Be there, see if there's anything I can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a private school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.132668460588636, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never did. I never did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, during those first months, I frequently. [tape break] Well, during that first, I don't know, probably six months, it was a matter of trying to decide where I could plug in, what was going on in town. What could I do? What should I do? How could I begin to understand if there was a niche? So I went back to the sewing school with some regularity to start with. Be there, see if there's anything I can do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a private school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a government school. That was my perception. This woman probably was being paid by the government. You know, and I began to notice, of course, that it wasn't always open when it was supposed to be. And you know, you begin to understand a little bit about my time frame in terms of punctuality and the little things that you know you don't even think about in terms of somebody says they're going to be somewhere at a certain time. You know, I expect them that they will, but you know, that didn't always happen. So that was part of the learning process too, of getting to know the culture. But I did go back there and I got to know some people there. I met some other people. I met another. I don't remember how I met this young woman, but she allowed me to come to her house and use her sewing machine. Didn't realize that sewing had such a lot to do with that first six months or so, but it seemed to have. It was an entree. You know, I got to know, I got to know some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in sewing, were you trying to demonstrate or teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.102059827887206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a government school. That was my perception. This woman probably was being paid by the government. You know, and I began to notice, of course, that it wasn't always open when it was supposed to be. And you know, you begin to understand a little bit about my time frame in terms of punctuality and the little things that you know you don't even think about in terms of somebody says they're going to be somewhere at a certain time. You know, I expect them that they will, but you know, that didn't always happen. So that was part of the learning process too, of getting to know the culture. But I did go back there and I got to know some people there. I met some other people. I met another. I don't remember how I met this young woman, but she allowed me to come to her house and use her sewing machine. Didn't realize that sewing had such a lot to do with that first six months or so, but it seemed to have. It was an entree. You know, I got to know, I got to know some people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And in sewing, were you trying to demonstrate or teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the time when I went to this other girl's house that I'd gotten to know quite well. No, it was just, I was sewing for myself, for the most part. Something to do. And they felt like they were offering, you know, their sewing machine, which they were, of course. Because I didn't have one. And you know, I'd talk to them, sit and talk to them and try to listen and try to improve, you know, learn more Spanish and learn about the community. And so I remember, you know, doing that for for a while, going back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now were there, the other volunteers in town. Were any of them working on community development? I mean, did you bump up against them or were they just off on their own doing? I mean, I know you met them socially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much off on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:403", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.6689553643191175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of the time when I went to this other girl's house that I'd gotten to know quite well. No, it was just, I was sewing for myself, for the most part. Something to do. And they felt like they were offering, you know, their sewing machine, which they were, of course. Because I didn't have one. And you know, I'd talk to them, sit and talk to them and try to listen and try to improve, you know, learn more Spanish and learn about the community. And so I remember, you know, doing that for for a while, going back to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now were there, the other volunteers in town. Were any of them working on community development? I mean, did you bump up against them or were they just off on their own doing? I mean, I know you met them socially."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much off on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School development in the sense of building them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.187728182576797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much off on their own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Doing what, do you remember?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School development in the sense of building them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.76414242508533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "School development in the sense of building them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during the first year still?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.404602694539256, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during the first year still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably started during that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.005114105043618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that during the first year still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably started during that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.67234900560402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably started during that first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:415", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.080387784004467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.533764204449407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.037515782721563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.597239758579515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These were Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. These were just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The kids showed up."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2191552873105715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. These were just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The kids showed up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And kids came and we did our activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was it? Where did this take place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.91017254145619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. These were just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The kids showed up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And kids came and we did our activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was it? Where did this take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Neiba. And I'm trying to remember if they came to my house, I mean, I can't. They must have come to my house because we wouldn't have met in anybody else's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any nearby school?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.677969490506878, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And kids came and we did our activities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was it? Where did this take place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Neiba. And I'm trying to remember if they came to my house, I mean, I can't. They must have come to my house because we wouldn't have met in anybody else's house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any nearby school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any school nearby?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.367863568527008, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pardon me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any school nearby?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but we didn't meet in the school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, you know, I remember we did a field trip to the grape. There were some grape places, places that were growing grapes, vineyards. I remember visiting there. Now when I went back to the Dominican a couple of years ago, they were selling grapes in the square, in the plaza. So grapes must have taken hold. But I worked with the Girl Scouts and I got to know them and some of their parents, but not well. I mean, I don't think the extension wasn't there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the girls."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6887204549716146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Pretty much, you know, I remember we did a field trip to the grape. There were some grape places, places that were growing grapes, vineyards. I remember visiting there. Now when I went back to the Dominican a couple of years ago, they were selling grapes in the square, in the plaza. So grapes must have taken hold. But I worked with the Girl Scouts and I got to know them and some of their parents, but not well. I mean, I don't think the extension wasn't there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was the girls."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Obviously, you know, in those days, well, I don't know. You know, I was four hours out of the capital. If there was any connection, I don't know where the next Girl Scout group troop would have been frankly. But so worked for the Girl Scouts. The first summer I believe, actually after a year, that next summer, I was asked to go to another area of the Dominican Republic for those two, let's say, two months, I don't know, six weeks, two months. And teach in a 4-H camp there that was run probably by the extension service. And so I think I did recreation and health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8763560610795718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Obviously, you know, in those days, well, I don't know. You know, I was four hours out of the capital. If there was any connection, I don't know where the next Girl Scout group troop would have been frankly. But so worked for the Girl Scouts. The first summer I believe, actually after a year, that next summer, I was asked to go to another area of the Dominican Republic for those two, let's say, two months, I don't know, six weeks, two months. And teach in a 4-H camp there that was run probably by the extension service. And so I think I did recreation and health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sports."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0848400678661907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably overextended. But then I think that's often the case when you're trying to find a reason for being there too, you know. And then there was no overall plan. You know, there was sometimes you got the sense of they just wanted to you here as a presence, you know, as a friendly American presence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“They” being Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.3164889642957673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably overextended. But then I think that's often the case when you're trying to find a reason for being there too, you know. And then there was no overall plan. You know, there was sometimes you got the sense of they just wanted to you here as a presence, you know, as a friendly American presence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "“They” being Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps. Exactly. Yeah. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from Peace Corps tried to move you toward some specific."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:445", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6252950176490952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Peace Corps. Exactly. Yeah. And um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No one from Peace Corps tried to move you toward some specific."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Although it must have been Peace Corps. Somehow that put me in connection with this 4-H."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.805883352943439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Although it must have been Peace Corps. Somehow that put me in connection with this 4-H."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0065370588260434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I do think there was some sense of, well, partly just being tired because you didn't have a sense of any progress, you know? And you probably don't in community development, except if you stay there for a long time or unless you develop a plan of action."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're in your second year, there wasn't one specific project you were going to try to nail down so that you, you know, by the end, you can say, well, I did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1183745098067148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I do think there was some sense of, well, partly just being tired because you didn't have a sense of any progress, you know? And you probably don't in community development, except if you stay there for a long time or unless you develop a plan of action."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So as you're in your second year, there wasn't one specific project you were going to try to nail down so that you, you know, by the end, you can say, well, I did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did this, huh? Probably not. Although I did end up going around some with this Dominican promotora. And I think she was working on some school, wanting to promote schools, but she didn't get very far. I mean, I think probably because the resources were so poor there, so lacking, and the government didn't have any more. Although the United States has been very involved with that country for a long time through USAID and aid. U.S. aid. So I think that they probably were supporting the community development program frankly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you're in the second year coming near the end, were you at all tempted to extend?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3807092713663145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did this, huh? Probably not. Although I did end up going around some with this Dominican promotora. And I think she was working on some school, wanting to promote schools, but she didn't get very far. I mean, I think probably because the resources were so poor there, so lacking, and the government didn't have any more. Although the United States has been very involved with that country for a long time through USAID and aid. U.S. aid. So I think that they probably were supporting the community development program frankly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you're in the second year coming near the end, were you at all tempted to extend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:457", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5341214126292384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't recall that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm, I don't recall that. No, I don't remember that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did your service sort of wind down?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7045793473658204, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall that I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm, I don't recall that. No, I don't remember that they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did your service sort of wind down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, another one of those trips to the capital city, of course, and it was sad leaving because I gotten to know so many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your Spanish at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9933078362540991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, another one of those trips to the capital city, of course, and it was sad leaving because I gotten to know so many people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your Spanish at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot better. I mean, we did have a test, you know, as we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't remember what level you got?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1036753736156657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot better. I mean, we did have a test, you know, as we left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't remember what level you got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would hope so, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.2263059706840729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't remember what level you got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would hope so, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's for sure. That's for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of your group, do you know if many left before the end of their tour, early terminations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.36256218964897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would hope so, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's for sure. That's for sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of your group, do you know if many left before the end of their tour, early terminations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One girl did, I remember. You know what's interesting? I hardly ever saw the girls in my group again. I really got to know people from other groups that came in, maybe right after we did, or maybe some that were assigned down to that south, in that southwest corner. I don't ever remember, even we must have when we got together, I must have seen these people. You know, I just don't. I must not have connected emotionally or any other way to them that I recall them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall at the, during your second year, approximately how many volunteers were in the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.682175542776506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One girl did, I remember. You know what's interesting? I hardly ever saw the girls in my group again. I really got to know people from other groups that came in, maybe right after we did, or maybe some that were assigned down to that south, in that southwest corner. I don't ever remember, even we must have when we got together, I must have seen these people. You know, I just don't. I must not have connected emotionally or any other way to them that I recall them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall at the, during your second year, approximately how many volunteers were in the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. Our group became very small. I would say we started out with 28. We were probably down to less than 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of those left, of course, in Puerto Rico. Some of them maybe decided themselves to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was for you anyway, and probably maybe for the others, there wasn't a strong group sense."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8690839364183398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. Our group became very small. I would say we started out with 28. We were probably down to less than 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of those left, of course, in Puerto Rico. Some of them maybe decided themselves to leave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there was for you anyway, and probably maybe for the others, there wasn't a strong group sense."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we're Dominican Republic VI and we're going to make it kind of thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3075110326152344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, we're Dominican Republic VI and we're going to make it kind of thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are various reasons for that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5639011473502604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are various reasons for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finished. You left the village with some sadness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8487790526114005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There are various reasons for that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finished. You left the village with some sadness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1653100584571114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You finished. You left the village with some sadness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5170111760634573, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you felt that was part of your being there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:489", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9077901956260637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you felt that was part of your being there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Girl Scouts."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.341989106251182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you felt that was part of your being there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Girl Scouts, the priests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now when you finish, I guess there's a conference in the capital."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.824432340279091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Girl Scouts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Girl Scouts, the priests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now when you finish, I guess there's a conference in the capital."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your plans beyond?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6227559756531984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your plans beyond?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhere I had been told or been asked to consider going into a, being part of the staff of a training program for those that were going back to the Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the Dominican Republic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9141733062813313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, somewhere I had been told or been asked to consider going into a, being part of the staff of a training program for those that were going back to the Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was part of that training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the first teaching program to go there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2379703403125903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To the Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was part of that training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the first teaching program to go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there hundreds in the training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5977448225695445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was part of that training program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it the first teaching program to go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there hundreds in the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they train?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8863831361883827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there hundreds in the training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At San Diego State University in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2070923735426473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, not that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did they train?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At San Diego State University in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:509", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5634359706029413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At San Diego State University in California."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the women separately, perhaps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9593733006699345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the women separately, perhaps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that could have been it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.399303667411038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or the women separately, perhaps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that could have been it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.888115186012264, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that could have been it too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to church groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4312390955691825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to church groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.034710106187981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you talk to church groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not after that, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were satisfied with what you had done?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.7052334513199785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not after that, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were satisfied with what you had done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.574362285580221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What happened next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, again, I don't recall where this offer came from or if there was a list. Or anyway, I ended up taking a job in Laredo, Texas, with the Laredo Webb County Health Department as a health educator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. With their migrant program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you needed to use your Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.082624761755801, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, again, I don't recall where this offer came from or if there was a list. Or anyway, I ended up taking a job in Laredo, Texas, with the Laredo Webb County Health Department as a health educator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. With their migrant program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you needed to use your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3140275130620003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. With their migrant program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you needed to use your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, oh, it probably won't be at this time of the day. Yeah, well, certainly. I haven't reflected on that actual question for a long time, but because it's so much a part of me now, so much, you know, my experience of being in another country and seeing certainly one, and I was never the same since that time. But being outside of my own culture, seeing how other people live, and living there myself. Just being having my eyes open to the world, because again, when you're 21, 22, your eyes really aren't open and there's no. You believe that they are, but they're not, you know. It's just a matter of living. And um, as I said, I've never been the same. I've never seen things the same since that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any continuing involvement with Dominican Republic or with international programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5711416811800003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, oh, it probably won't be at this time of the day. Yeah, well, certainly. I haven't reflected on that actual question for a long time, but because it's so much a part of me now, so much, you know, my experience of being in another country and seeing certainly one, and I was never the same since that time. But being outside of my own culture, seeing how other people live, and living there myself. Just being having my eyes open to the world, because again, when you're 21, 22, your eyes really aren't open and there's no. You believe that they are, but they're not, you know. It's just a matter of living. And um, as I said, I've never been the same. I've never seen things the same since that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any continuing involvement with Dominican Republic or with international programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only in the sense that I've always supported financially programs that were either part of the church, for example, that were helping, or things of that nature where I could help financially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you married a returned volunteer."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0631378780000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only in the sense that I've always supported financially programs that were either part of the church, for example, that were helping, or things of that nature where I could help financially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you married a returned volunteer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, this is my second marriage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept your facility in Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2923754200000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well actually, this is my second marriage."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept your facility in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I sure did. And um, during that time, I taught English as a Second Language in a Methodist school there in Laredo and um, taught. Let's see. I did some other work, you know, volunteer work and ended up getting a degree, my master's in psychology and counseling, went into counseling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What went into the return trip? You've only been back once to the Dominican Republic?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.5470838000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you kept your facility in Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I sure did. And um, during that time, I taught English as a Second Language in a Methodist school there in Laredo and um, taught. Let's see. I did some other work, you know, volunteer work and ended up getting a degree, my master's in psychology and counseling, went into counseling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What went into the return trip? You've only been back once to the Dominican Republic?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it come about?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9099800000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it come about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a Peace Corps reunion. Let's see. Was it 40 years Peace Corps had been in country? Anyway, it was all groups were invited back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.1222000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a Peace Corps reunion. Let's see. Was it 40 years Peace Corps had been in country? Anyway, it was all groups were invited back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They've been there and still are there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a chance to go back to your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.358, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They've been there and still are there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had a chance to go back to your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back, yes, by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone remember you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back, yes, by myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anyone remember you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did! And I remembered them, and they remembered me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did! And I remembered them, and they remembered me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so right now. I do remember a real funny incident way back before I went to the Peace Corps. You know, I wasn't aware of that my neighbors were being interviewed about my character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the FBI background checks."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00203:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so right now. I do remember a real funny incident way back before I went to the Peace Corps. You know, I wasn't aware of that my neighbors were being interviewed about my character."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the FBI background checks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and they went to our near neighbor, the next farm. And I think he asked Dad afterwards, why were they asking all those questions about your daughter? You know, I thought it was real, it was real funny. And Dad thought it was too, that they were asking all those personal questions about character and what I was involved with and all that. So I can't think of anything, Bob, right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, we can stop."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 9.937376434274649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were able to load more propellant in the tanks. I don’t think we had to make the tanks any bigger. I think we already had enough capacity in the tanks. We added batteries, made that bigger, and took more consumables with us. We also modified the stowage bays in the descent stage. We had to outfit one specifically for the lunar roving vehicle, which folded up into the stowage compartment, and make some of the others bigger so they could take more scientific equipment. So they weren’t major changes, but it was all aimed at increasing the stay time and the return carry capacity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With these last few missions, was your concentration then on Apollo, or were you looking to some other things then at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I personally was off the program by then. I was involved with our Space Shuttle activities. We were getting ready to propose on the Space Shuttle and did propose on the Space Shuttle. But I kept in touch with the mission up at the Bethpage Mission Control Center. We used to work on the anomalies, they called them, that occurred in flight, anything that was outside the ordinary. We were getting fewer and fewer anomalies as the missions went on, but we tried to explain every one of them when corrections were required."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you also have anything to do with the studies or thoughts about using the LM for some other purposes, either through modifying it for different types of missions on the surface or, say, using the LM for the Skylab as part of the Apollo Telescope Mount, any of those kinds of activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a small group that was looking at that kind of thing, but it wasn’t part of the basic LM program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since, as you said, you’d moved to the Space Shuttle Program by this point, I’d like to talk a little bit about the Shuttle and some of Grumman’s early work in studies for the Space Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6555043960900004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. By that time I was head of engineering for the whole company, so I was in charge of the engineering work on all our projects and that was one of them.\\n\\n I felt bad about the Shuttle, because I thought we had done an outstanding job on the LM and we hadn’t gotten into any big problems like North American had, and yet here they were walking off with the big prize. I never really was satisfied with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess North American’s, to some degree their experience there, just like with the Apollo, having gotten that after getting the X-15, I'm sure played a role in NASA’s selection there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And NASA had gotten very closely involved with North American after the fire, because they had to go in there in force to Downey [California] and help them work their way out of the problem, and in the process, the NASA people sort of became subsumed into North American people, or at least that’s the way it seemed to me. So for whatever reason, we didn’t get the really big prize, but we did get a piece of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that point, did you continue to have some involvement with the space program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, as part of the engineering activities, but Grumman was getting less and less work in space and more and more in the advanced airplanes, so I got more involved with the aircraft activity. But we still had space work going. We had some work for the Air Force, study work. We participated to some extent in the Sky Lab Program. We proposed on a lot of stuff in space, but we weren’t outstandingly successful. We didn’t get too much of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you take a look back on your involvement with NASA, what do you think the biggest challenge you faced was?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes, but, you know, it could be more of a problem than that.\\n\\n We did have one problem that was a real quality problem that was on Shepard’s flight, where we had what looked like a loose solder ball inside the abort stage switch. That was a bear, because we had to find a way to neutralize that or we were going to have to abort the mission. Fortunately, MIT came up with a set of simple instructions that told the computer to ignore what this abort stage switch was telling it, and the astronauts were able to plug that into the computer, and we just went ahead with the mission. But that was a quality-control problem that we should have caught. It was a not uncommon problem, because the instruments were all hermetically sealed and they were evacuated before they sealed them. They sealed them with solder, and sometimes a little bit of the extra solder would get sucked in and you’d have a solder ball floating around inside. They could usually detect that in the factory by shaking it and listening and looking, but this one got through the whole thing without ever being detected. So that was kind of scary."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned on Apollo 11 the frozen plug in the fuel line. What did you do for later missions, or did you change anything to try and prevent that from happening again?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we changed the procedures. It was a very simple procedural change where we didn’t vent the propellant tank right away. It was because we had vented the propellant tank right after landing that allowed flow through that heat exchanger that caused the freeze-up. So just by not doing that right away, we were able to avoid that whole problem from then on. So it was a very detailed procedural change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a successful one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.\n\nI actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\\n\\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we changed the procedures. It was a very simple procedural change where we didn’t vent the propellant tank right away. It was because we had vented the propellant tank right after landing that allowed flow through that heat exchanger that caused the freeze-up. So just by not doing that right away, we were able to avoid that whole problem from then on. So it was a very detailed procedural change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a successful one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.\n\nI actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\\n\\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How’s Andy doing these days?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.\n\nI actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\\n\\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How’s Andy doing these days?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How’s Andy doing these days?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about that one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a failure during a pressure test of the cabin. I think it might have been LM-5, where the glass actually broke, and that scared the hell out of us. So we did some redesign on the mounting to be more sure that we weren’t applying any stress to the glass when we locked it into position. We also worked with Corning to develop a stronger, more crack-resistance glass, and we did substitute that improved glass. So, yes, we were worried about glass. I never liked glass as a structural material. You couldn’t analyze it. It’s an amorphous kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly got rid of as much as you could there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00288:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a failure during a pressure test of the cabin. I think it might have been LM-5, where the glass actually broke, and that scared the hell out of us. So we did some redesign on the mounting to be more sure that we weren’t applying any stress to the glass when we locked it into position. We also worked with Corning to develop a stronger, more crack-resistance glass, and we did substitute that improved glass. So, yes, we were worried about glass. I never liked glass as a structural material. You couldn’t analyze it. It’s an amorphous kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly got rid of as much as you could there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s a good thing we did, because even with just that simple flat panel, we still had cause for concern. If we ever had a big curved dome or something, we would have gone nuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just one last thing, I guess, to provide clarification. You had said that you were the Chief Engineer for the LM. What was your job description and the area of responsibilities that were uniquely yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00008:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 69.15345722573196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife Tori and I had just gotten married. We graduated in June, we got married in August, and we packed up the back of our yellow Pinto station wagon—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[interposing] What year was the Pinto?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was 1976. The Pinto was 1974. The Pinto was, of course, the famous exploding car. But obviously, we managed to survive two Pintos, actually. We put all our earthly belongings in the back of the Pinto station wagon, and drove out to Iowa City, where we lived for the next eight years. Initially, my wife was pursuing a Master’s degree in statistics there, and I got a job selling men’s clothing at a Montgomery Ward department store for a year. Then, I applied to graduate school, and got into several graduate schools. But in the end, we really liked Iowa City, and decided to stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. So Iowa City in 1977. What was the town like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a terrific place to go—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[interposing] Master’s or Ph.D.?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00008:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 59.49608641673763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was my first day at the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was pre-College Park, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. There were offices in Alexandria—the Cartographic, the Nixon Project, and some motion picture storage. And then there was the Suitland National Records Center, which also at that point not only had records center material, but also it was an archival branch, with a lot of modern military records there. And there were other scattered offices, like the Personnel Office, the Federal Register was on Farragut Square, or one of the squares nearby, and NHPRC had rented space. There were kind of little pods of the Archives all over the place, which is one of the reasons why we needed to have Archives II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, that was your first day at the National Archives, and what about your second day? What about the next, I guess—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[interposing] Twenty-nine years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, it looks like you were at the Cartographic and Architectural branch for three years—"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.479322765714152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, uh, my husband and I had gotten married in August, and I was working, volunteering at a Head Start center in Santa Barbara. And he was facing a, um, possible draft notice. And this was in 1966. And he was actually told to go down to Los Angeles and to report at a draft, it might have been an induction center, I'm not sure. And they took a look at a scar on his arm that he'd had surgery on when he was a baby, and then again later as a teenager. And it had left this kind of indented scar. It was nothing serious. I think it was maybe a benign tumor or something that he'd been born with. But the doctors at this induction center looked at it and they said, you're not eligible for the service.\n\nIn the meantime, while all of this was looming, I had noticed a, um, an ad, an announcement, maybe in the newspaper, for a test in the basement of the Santa Barbara Post Office for the Peace Corps. And so I had suggested that we go and take the test just in case. And so we had done, we had completed the test. And then this news came that he was not going to be eligible for the draft. And lo and behold, we got a call from, I guess, Washington, D.C., that a group was staging in Philadelphia, end of February, for Honduras. They were going to go and train in Puerto Rico. And did we want to go? We looked at each other and said yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, from the time you took the test in the basement until the time you got that offer, what length of time had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hardly any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's most unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.199247517460169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hardly any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's most unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were open to going anywhere?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.999163908289076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were open to going anywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.887959898098973, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were open to going anywhere?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your husband?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.6532887756655255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the. You took the test, what month?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.392543084072806, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your husband?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the. You took the test, what month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been November, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the invitation came?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.991714537858674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the. You took the test, what month?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been November, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the invitation came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In I think early February. Late January, early February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like three months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.657460597620749, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could have been November, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the invitation came?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In I think early February. Late January, early February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, something like that. And we were gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about medical?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.286067330689721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In I think early February. Late January, early February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like three months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, something like that. And we were gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about medical?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were gone by the end of February."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cause often that trips people up. What about medical, do you remember?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.580959199344186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just flew. The only thing that we did for medical is we went to our dentist and had the full mouth dental x-ray for identification purposes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If anything, you know, ever came to that. So the only medical thing that we did here, we did all of our medical happened in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In training."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of our injections and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your training took place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.19061618565732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Camp Crozier, Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Puerto Rico. And I had in a classroom not too long ago, a former volunteer from Costa Rica came and spoke to my students and she said she was in the same training camp. But a few years before we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was not true for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.989573539619244, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Puerto Rico. And I had in a classroom not too long ago, a former volunteer from Costa Rica came and spoke to my students and she said she was in the same training camp. But a few years before we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was not true for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your training program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.7661928217991605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was not true for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A three month training. And all of it was in Puerto Rico?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.295769801999067, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was your training program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A three month training. And all of it was in Puerto Rico?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of it in Camp Crozier. And I think that the name Crozier, he was the first volunteer to be killed in action, C-R-O-Z-I-E-R. His first name might have been David. I'm not entirely sure. It was in a rainforest in the southern part of Puerto Rico. And I loved it. We had a little bit of animal husbandry. We had community development techniques. We had a lot of language. We had three experiences out in the field where we were given the name of a barrio somewhere. We had to find it on the map. We had a general drop off location and from there we had to make our way out to the site that we were given and find some family that would take us in. And we had three visits out there and we were, um, the staff of the, the trainers came and made visits to all of us in our sites where we were sent so they could see if we would, if we looked like good, resourceful Peace Corps material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to go out and find a family to live with? And how long did you live or stay with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.303419508640824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All of it in Camp Crozier. And I think that the name Crozier, he was the first volunteer to be killed in action, C-R-O-Z-I-E-R. His first name might have been David. I'm not entirely sure. It was in a rainforest in the southern part of Puerto Rico. And I loved it. We had a little bit of animal husbandry. We had community development techniques. We had a lot of language. We had three experiences out in the field where we were given the name of a barrio somewhere. We had to find it on the map. We had a general drop off location and from there we had to make our way out to the site that we were given and find some family that would take us in. And we had three visits out there and we were, um, the staff of the, the trainers came and made visits to all of us in our sites where we were sent so they could see if we would, if we looked like good, resourceful Peace Corps material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had to go out and find a family to live with? And how long did you live or stay with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the first time was a couple of days and it may have been two visits that we made, but I'm thinking it was three."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so by the time we were done with that, we were all great friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was your language development at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.274923880165738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the stage where you understand way more than you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can say."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So your training included not these home stays on a, on an ongoing basis, but short home stays with a family that you yourself found."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.981387506377454, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So your training included not these home stays on a, on an ongoing basis, but short home stays with a family that you yourself found."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. That we went and asked if we could come and stay. Explained that we were training for the Peace Corps, that this was part of our training. And, you know, could we be of any help around the homestead type of thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We found a nice lady that took us in and was happy to see us come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what else do you remember from those months of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.979319451530504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. That we went and asked if we could come and stay. Explained that we were training for the Peace Corps, that this was part of our training. And, you know, could we be of any help around the homestead type of thing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We found a nice lady that took us in and was happy to see us come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what else do you remember from those months of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were divided into groups for our community development training, and what they did was they gave each group a pregnant sow. And so we were in charge of overseeing the delivery of these little piglets and castrating the males. And, um, I'm not sure if we had to organize for the sale of the piglets, but it turned out that the sow that we were given turned on her piglets. And so we had to take them away and put them with another sow that was willing to nurse them. And so that was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that is. How many people?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.320147471025312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were divided into groups for our community development training, and what they did was they gave each group a pregnant sow. And so we were in charge of overseeing the delivery of these little piglets and castrating the males. And, um, I'm not sure if we had to organize for the sale of the piglets, but it turned out that the sow that we were given turned on her piglets. And so we had to take them away and put them with another sow that was willing to nurse them. And so that was kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that is. How many people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was out of sorts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 80 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your training program? And they were all being trained to go to Honduras in community development?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.642157371636186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 80 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In your training program? And they were all being trained to go to Honduras in community development?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras VIII. We were the eighth group to go to Honduras. And we had some technical city planners, but most of the people were rural CD, rural community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.824619301817984, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Honduras VIII. We were the eighth group to go to Honduras. And we had some technical city planners, but most of the people were rural CD, rural community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, deselection, that's what it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those days, yeah, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.805132557575538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, deselection, that's what it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those days, yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I think that most of the people went. I remember a few people were deselected and not sure why. And I remember one single girl and I don't know if they were concerned for her safety or what the issue was, but she really wanted to go and she wasn't able to. We had an engaged couple who got married while they were in the training camp right there in Puerto Rico. And, um. Yeah. Jan Russell and Vince Morabito. Jan and Vince Morabito, by the time they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your, what was your housing like during training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.894591730639487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, deselection, that's what it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In those days, yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. I think that most of the people went. I remember a few people were deselected and not sure why. And I remember one single girl and I don't know if they were concerned for her safety or what the issue was, but she really wanted to go and she wasn't able to. We had an engaged couple who got married while they were in the training camp right there in Puerto Rico. And, um. Yeah. Jan Russell and Vince Morabito. Jan and Vince Morabito, by the time they left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your, what was your housing like during training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had little cabins that were thin walled and they were complete with little geckos on the wall. And I was not friendly with lizards or any of that, so I had to get used to that. Lots of rain. But it was fun. It was, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you reflect back on it, do you feel that the training was appropriate for the circumstances that you would later find yourself in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.215545346468502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had little cabins that were thin walled and they were complete with little geckos on the wall. And I was not friendly with lizards or any of that, so I had to get used to that. Lots of rain. But it was fun. It was, it was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you reflect back on it, do you feel that the training was appropriate for the circumstances that you would later find yourself in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was. I think that we probably could have used, um. Oh, the language training was excellent. They were using the Foreign Service Institute method of memorizing and repeating dialogs, and it stuck, like memorizing a script. And so I think that we were learning to establish cooperatives. And my husband was very active in that when we got to Honduras, so that was good. We learned a little bookkeeping for that, double entry bookkeeping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had excellent trainers. The language staff was really good. They took great pains to make sure that we had a representation of people from all over the Spanish speaking world, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you went into the Peace Corps, what background did you bring at that point? Did you bring rural background or, um, what had you done prior to joining the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.57282816274278, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that it was. I think that we probably could have used, um. Oh, the language training was excellent. They were using the Foreign Service Institute method of memorizing and repeating dialogs, and it stuck, like memorizing a script. And so I think that we were learning to establish cooperatives. And my husband was very active in that when we got to Honduras, so that was good. We learned a little bookkeeping for that, double entry bookkeeping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had excellent trainers. The language staff was really good. They took great pains to make sure that we had a representation of people from all over the Spanish speaking world, which was very nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time you went into the Peace Corps, what background did you bring at that point? Did you bring rural background or, um, what had you done prior to joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not done much. I had worked. I had jobs. The secretaries had worked at the medical clinic in Santa Barbara. I was a newly naturalized citizen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a newly naturalized citizen from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.818306373756519, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had not done much. I had worked. I had jobs. The secretaries had worked at the medical clinic in Santa Barbara. I was a newly naturalized citizen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And a newly naturalized citizen from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From England. And I had not really wanted to do that, but I had done it sort of under duress. But I was advised in the courthouse that because my mother had been naturalized, that I should be. I was traveling to Australia and I needed a passport. And so I did a quickie naturalization thing down at the Federal building in Los Angeles. And I'd been a poli sci major. I had an AA degree from City College at that point and I was working in Head Start. I was a newlywed and thinking of going back to school. And then the whole Peace Corps concept arose in our lives and we were very excited to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We definitely subscribed to the ideals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So after three months of training in Puerto Rico, you and roughly 80 others."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.131451526396132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From England. And I had not really wanted to do that, but I had done it sort of under duress. But I was advised in the courthouse that because my mother had been naturalized, that I should be. I was traveling to Australia and I needed a passport. And so I did a quickie naturalization thing down at the Federal building in Los Angeles. And I'd been a poli sci major. I had an AA degree from City College at that point and I was working in Head Start. I was a newlywed and thinking of going back to school. And then the whole Peace Corps concept arose in our lives and we were very excited to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We definitely subscribed to the ideals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So after three months of training in Puerto Rico, you and roughly 80 others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Headed to Honduras. And when did you actually arrive in Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.173527703697808, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think the middle of June."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because at the time that we were in Miami, it was the Seven Day War in Israel. And I remember people hopping around on the beach, retirees complaining about whether the hot sand was worse than the [inaudible]. So that marked our time there. We weren't there for very long, a few days. Just kind of regrouping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are your first impressions of arriving in Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.526141892997567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because at the time that we were in Miami, it was the Seven Day War in Israel. And I remember people hopping around on the beach, retirees complaining about whether the hot sand was worse than the [inaudible]. So that marked our time there. We weren't there for very long, a few days. Just kind of regrouping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are your first impressions of arriving in Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we flew into the capital and it was, um, Tegucigalpa is much cooler than the north coast where we were assigned. We found out our assignments and we had asked to be on the coast. And sure enough, they sent us up to the north coast. We were sent to Puerto Cortes. I think when we arrived we probably stayed in Tegucigalpa for a few days as we got organized and transportation was arranged for us to all be sent out to our sites. Some went over land. We actually flew from Tegucigalpa up to San Pedro Sula, and, um, when we got off the plane in San Pedro, it was, it was like opening the door to an oven and you just kind of stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.029046547775074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting ready to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are your first impressions of arriving in Honduras?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we flew into the capital and it was, um, Tegucigalpa is much cooler than the north coast where we were assigned. We found out our assignments and we had asked to be on the coast. And sure enough, they sent us up to the north coast. We were sent to Puerto Cortes. I think when we arrived we probably stayed in Tegucigalpa for a few days as we got organized and transportation was arranged for us to all be sent out to our sites. Some went over land. We actually flew from Tegucigalpa up to San Pedro Sula, and, um, when we got off the plane in San Pedro, it was, it was like opening the door to an oven and you just kind of stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now, were you the only ones that were assigned to that location?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.69894060863897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we flew into the capital and it was, um, Tegucigalpa is much cooler than the north coast where we were assigned. We found out our assignments and we had asked to be on the coast. And sure enough, they sent us up to the north coast. We were sent to Puerto Cortes. I think when we arrived we probably stayed in Tegucigalpa for a few days as we got organized and transportation was arranged for us to all be sent out to our sites. Some went over land. We actually flew from Tegucigalpa up to San Pedro Sula, and, um, when we got off the plane in San Pedro, it was, it was like opening the door to an oven and you just kind of stay there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now, were you the only ones that were assigned to that location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only ones that were assigned to Puerto Cortes. But there were a few other people that were in San Pedro and there were, um, people in places around. But we were the only ones there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any other Peace Corps volunteers preceded you in that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.109934009598856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was so hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Now, were you the only ones that were assigned to that location?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the only ones that were assigned to Puerto Cortes. But there were a few other people that were in San Pedro and there were, um, people in places around. But we were the only ones there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had any other Peace Corps volunteers preceded you in that area?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they had. There was a couple from New York, Bill and Judy Grann, I think their name was, G-R-A-N-N, and they were leaving just as we were arriving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you taking their assignment, so to speak, or just? It was a different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.182351179147949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even know what their assignment was. We just got there and checked into the hotel on the main square and set about finding a place to live. And we pretty much did everything on foot. Cortes was at that point the fourth largest city in the country. It was 28,000 population, and Honduras was maybe six or 7 million. It's about the size of Mississippi. So it was bigger, Los Angeles, greater Los Angeles area had more population than the country. And that's, uh, the infrastructure wasn't developed back in the sixties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is why we were flown up to the north. But what a sweet country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of arriving at your Cortes, your assignment city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.4596928137629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is why we were flown up to the north. But what a sweet country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of arriving at your Cortes, your assignment city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. We were given our assignments in Tegucigalpa, and four women, I was one of four who were assigned to the Honduran welfare agency, was going to start up a comedor infantil. And so I was happy to have that assignment because I kind of liked the idea of framework more than just going out and creating something. So the impressions that I had of arriving in Cortez was, um, there was one paved street that went through. Everything else was dirt road. It was a port city. It is a port city. A lot of bananas exported from there. It's a little smaller than La Ceiba, the big port city in the north. But nonetheless, it was very active, um, very tropical.\n\nThe bus ride directly north from San Pedro Sula up to Puerto Cortes was pure jungle, both sides of the bus. And I can just still smell that diesel from the bus and the stops along the way. And little kids with big trays held over their heads coming down the aisle of the bus, selling their food, snacks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those little open face kind of tostada sort of things. Just so cute. Um. I was a little bewildered. How are we going to survive this heat? How is this going to be possible? But we, we were a good team and we found a nice place to live way up on stilts because of the rainy season. Lots of people, lots and lots of the houses were up on stilts and ours was up really high. It was high enough that you could consider the underneath of it a ground floor if you wanted to and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you find your house and why did you choose that one?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.976259003789986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On foot, walking around, looking, word of mouth, asking for things. We had found one that was out way on the outskirts, but we didn't want to be out. We wanted to be in the, we wanted to be centrally located kind of thing. And so we took this one. It was 60 lempiras a month, $30 a month. It had two bedrooms, way more space than two people with no children needed. And we just furnished it in rustic ways. We built our bed and got straw mats and put them down, a couple of straw mats in the living room. And noticed that when people would come to visit us, they would always walk around the mats. And then we realized those are used for beds. You wouldn't walk right across somebody's bed. We were using it as a rug."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you have running water and electricity?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had running water and we had electricity. We had cold water. We didn't have any hot water. And the house was built right next to another one. The roofs met in the middle and whenever there was heavy rain, it just poured down the valley of the two roofs. And we'd often go down there in bathing suits and have a really great shower down there because the force of the water was enormous. And then sure enough, the back yard would fill up and it would just be kind of a swamp. There was, uh, outside of the living room window, there was a palm tree and a roof, right, a tin roof. And there was an iguana that would come and bask in the sun on the top of that roof. And then I guess he'd go back via the palm tree. I'm not sure what he did, but I made peace with reptiles. I got some practice in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little geckos on the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. What about cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.30695444865554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had running water and we had electricity. We had cold water. We didn't have any hot water. And the house was built right next to another one. The roofs met in the middle and whenever there was heavy rain, it just poured down the valley of the two roofs. And we'd often go down there in bathing suits and have a really great shower down there because the force of the water was enormous. And then sure enough, the back yard would fill up and it would just be kind of a swamp. There was, uh, outside of the living room window, there was a palm tree and a roof, right, a tin roof. And there was an iguana that would come and bask in the sun on the top of that roof. And then I guess he'd go back via the palm tree. I'm not sure what he did, but I made peace with reptiles. I got some practice in training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little geckos on the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. What about cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooking. What we did was we bought a kerosene stove, and we were given a water filter, Peace Corps issued, along with bicycles and a book locker. And so we just used that. And every now and again, I don't know if you had a kerosene burning stove when you were in Malawi, but sometimes they would just kind of go poof and whatever was on top was just covered with this black, greasy soot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and your husband both do the cooking?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.67439383183949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Little geckos on the wall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. What about cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooking. What we did was we bought a kerosene stove, and we were given a water filter, Peace Corps issued, along with bicycles and a book locker. And so we just used that. And every now and again, I don't know if you had a kerosene burning stove when you were in Malawi, but sometimes they would just kind of go poof and whatever was on top was just covered with this black, greasy soot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and your husband both do the cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I probably did most of it. We didn't have a refrigerator, but we had, uh. He built a little cage with wood and netting for the food that we, you know, like whatever things, nonperishable things that we would keep, to keep the cucarachas out. I've never seen cockroaches that long. We'd measure them, you know, two and a half inches. No problem. And we discovered that they would eat, they'd get into the dirty clothes basket and eat. If you had food spilled on a T-shirt, there would be holes where the food had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.193770924266099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Cooking. What we did was we bought a kerosene stove, and we were given a water filter, Peace Corps issued, along with bicycles and a book locker. And so we just used that. And every now and again, I don't know if you had a kerosene burning stove when you were in Malawi, but sometimes they would just kind of go poof and whatever was on top was just covered with this black, greasy soot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you and your husband both do the cooking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I think I probably did most of it. We didn't have a refrigerator, but we had, uh. He built a little cage with wood and netting for the food that we, you know, like whatever things, nonperishable things that we would keep, to keep the cucarachas out. I've never seen cockroaches that long. We'd measure them, you know, two and a half inches. No problem. And we discovered that they would eat, they'd get into the dirty clothes basket and eat. If you had food spilled on a T-shirt, there would be holes where the food had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would get in and just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do their thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 15.17749496822975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They would get in and just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do their thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do their thing, just eat whatever was there. And there would be a time in the year when they would fly. They'd come out at night and there was no getting rid of them. You know, they were just part of the scene."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you get used to that kind of thing. What I did was go to the market every day, particularly, and get what we were going to have and prepare it. And that was that. We lived very simply."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. In terms of the work you ended up doing. Can you describe, you know, how you launched your projects and what they were like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.229682926733346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were maybe 90 or something like that. It was a big group when everyone came. I had a much smaller group. But what happened was that I, um, in visiting in the evening, my husband and I went out and we're kind of trying to visit the city elders and introduce ourselves. And we went to see Dr. Pena and he was the head of the health center. And this was also a government run health center. And he was so thrilled to meet volunteers. He apparently hadn't met the ones that had been there, that were already there, and they left as soon as we had come. I don't know what their assignments were even, but he invited me to bring those children that I had over a period of months to give them physicals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then in the afternoon, and I would only be able to take maybe five at a time, in the afternoon I would go with the nurse from the health center, Estellita. And we would go and find their mothers. And we discussed nutrition and birth control, and he invited me to make available to them IUDs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have always been very sorry that I didn't keep a journal of all of this because it was so fascinating. There wasn't one child that wasn't severely anemic. Lots of them had parasites. When we'd go to see the mothers, some of them, they were so young and they looked so old, and some of them didn't know whether they'd had 11 children and two had died, or if they'd had 12 children and three had died, that kind of thing. They pretty much had a baby a year and they were very suspicious of me discussing birth control. Um, I was 21. I was a definite gringa. I was very blond. I was, I had no children of my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And you lacked credibility?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.144092140814829, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then in the afternoon, and I would only be able to take maybe five at a time, in the afternoon I would go with the nurse from the health center, Estellita. And we would go and find their mothers. And we discussed nutrition and birth control, and he invited me to make available to them IUDs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have always been very sorry that I didn't keep a journal of all of this because it was so fascinating. There wasn't one child that wasn't severely anemic. Lots of them had parasites. When we'd go to see the mothers, some of them, they were so young and they looked so old, and some of them didn't know whether they'd had 11 children and two had died, or if they'd had 12 children and three had died, that kind of thing. They pretty much had a baby a year and they were very suspicious of me discussing birth control. Um, I was 21. I was a definite gringa. I was very blond. I was, I had no children of my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. And you lacked credibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lacked credibility. And they were just suspicious. And with infant mortality being so high, they didn't want to not surround themselves with their own children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. Mm hmm."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.308768368744621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't want to suddenly not have children if they were going to be losing them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At a steady rate. And at that point they, Honduras was the country of 30 percent, it was 30 percent literacy, 30 percent infant mortality. I think the statistics, from what I've seen on the internet, those statistics have changed dramatically, which is really a good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked with those kids in those families, and we would bring nutritional tips to them. But people only did what they could do anyway. It wasn't that they weren't feeding their children properly because they didn't know how. It's because they couldn't. You know, the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the economics?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.961442430548914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I worked with those kids in those families, and we would bring nutritional tips to them. But people only did what they could do anyway. It wasn't that they weren't feeding their children properly because they didn't know how. It's because they couldn't. You know, the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the economics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The economics were so severe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hand-to-mouth and it didn't go around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you continue to do that same work throughout your two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.401602700609903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The economics were so severe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hand-to-mouth and it didn't go around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you continue to do that same work throughout your two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, here's what happened. We had our annual conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stop just a second."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.001780778455448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hand-to-mouth and it didn't go around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Did you continue to do that same work throughout your two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, here's what happened. We had our annual conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stop just a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had our first year conference in Tegucigalpa. All of the Group XIII volunteers were there, and the four of us who were assigned to the national welfare agency were invited to go and speak to the director in her office in the capital. It was a very auspicious meeting and she told us to speak freely and tell us what was going on. And she wanted our observations. And what I had observed and subsequently shared with her, I've kind of questioned that ever since, CARE products were being sold around the town. And often these little tiendas, little chitas they were called, um, you'd see cans of oil with the flag and the symbol of hands across the sea. And it seemed really wrong to me and I shared that. And when I shared that, the result was that CARE pulled its products out. It stopped supporting that comedor infantil.\n\nDo you think that was as a direct result of your comment?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.779756420506054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, here's what happened. We had our annual conference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stop just a second."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had our first year conference in Tegucigalpa. All of the Group XIII volunteers were there, and the four of us who were assigned to the national welfare agency were invited to go and speak to the director in her office in the capital. It was a very auspicious meeting and she told us to speak freely and tell us what was going on. And she wanted our observations. And what I had observed and subsequently shared with her, I've kind of questioned that ever since, CARE products were being sold around the town. And often these little tiendas, little chitas they were called, um, you'd see cans of oil with the flag and the symbol of hands across the sea. And it seemed really wrong to me and I shared that. And when I shared that, the result was that CARE pulled its products out. It stopped supporting that comedor infantil.\n\nDo you think that was as a direct result of your comment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A direct result. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How would CARE?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.842832810553551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And these people were bilingual because they spoke their Garifuna, their Moreno language, and they all spoke Spanish and some of them spoke English. There was quite a bit of English there on the coast with the shipping and everything. But what happened to us was that, um, I got pregnant. I got pregnant with the full knowledge of our Peace Corps doctor and everything. And we had just kind of calculated and thought it would be really great to have a baby and share it with the people. And they were always asking, are you brother and sister, what's wrong with you? That kind of thing. And, um, the Peace Corps director changed and the new director did not want to have a rash of babies, which is understandable. And so he terminated us early. We were terminated in February. We should have gone in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so what we did was we appealed it and we went to Washington. And after a lot of wrangling, they sent us back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that process take?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.603147567281723, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. And these people were bilingual because they spoke their Garifuna, their Moreno language, and they all spoke Spanish and some of them spoke English. There was quite a bit of English there on the coast with the shipping and everything. But what happened to us was that, um, I got pregnant. I got pregnant with the full knowledge of our Peace Corps doctor and everything. And we had just kind of calculated and thought it would be really great to have a baby and share it with the people. And they were always asking, are you brother and sister, what's wrong with you? That kind of thing. And, um, the Peace Corps director changed and the new director did not want to have a rash of babies, which is understandable. And so he terminated us early. We were terminated in February. We should have gone in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so what we did was we appealed it and we went to Washington. And after a lot of wrangling, they sent us back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did that process take?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were there for six weeks. So February, March, April, they were, we arrived back in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the baby was due in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.275490823804596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were there for six weeks. So February, March, April, they were, we arrived back in April."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the baby was due in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was due in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it was late. It came in June. Yeah, it was almost, I mean, it was kind of crazy. I don't think that would happen now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reinstating you, you mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.717254723067512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we went back on the condition that we would extend for a couple of months and that we would live and work in the capital because they felt that that would be safer conditions. Better to have the baby there. And so, um, that's what we did. And I worked in the Peace Corps office."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was overdue and I hardly missed any time at all. And the director was so angry every time he'd see me, I could see him just seething. And then right away, as soon as the baby was born, I was just back at work. We had a little crib she was in. I was typing up the termination reports on Group XIII."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came back in time for our termination conference, so we were able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you attended it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.05833916428088, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We came back in time for our termination conference, so we were able to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you attended it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attended it. And we were able to say goodbye to all of our friends, and they were just so astounded that there we were. And then they all left and we stayed. And our baby was born just at the time when Honduras and El Salvador went to war. They had that brief soccer war in 1969. It was over territory, but it was, the event that sparked it was a soccer game. And this was World Cup qualifying games and they ended up having to play the deciding match in Mexico City because it wasn't safe to play it in either of the two countries. And so we had a curfew at night and a blackout and we had to just use a little candle and that baby would wake up at night and we'd, you know, sequester ourselves and blacken everything and sit by candlelight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And feed her and change her diapers. And it was so unusual. It was just surreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were, um."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.8425990714232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We attended it. And we were able to say goodbye to all of our friends, and they were just so astounded that there we were. And then they all left and we stayed. And our baby was born just at the time when Honduras and El Salvador went to war. They had that brief soccer war in 1969. It was over territory, but it was, the event that sparked it was a soccer game. And this was World Cup qualifying games and they ended up having to play the deciding match in Mexico City because it wasn't safe to play it in either of the two countries. And so we had a curfew at night and a blackout and we had to just use a little candle and that baby would wake up at night and we'd, you know, sequester ourselves and blacken everything and sit by candlelight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And feed her and change her diapers. And it was so unusual. It was just surreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the capital was where a lot of the action was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm trying to remember, as I recollect in the late sixties, Peace Corps had a family policy. They were recruiting families into the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.713998968248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And feed her and change her diapers. And it was so unusual. It was just surreal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Were, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the capital was where a lot of the action was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I'm trying to remember, as I recollect in the late sixties, Peace Corps had a family policy. They were recruiting families into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had friends who were in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you the only family, though, in Honduras?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.899861253235788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Isn't that unusual?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could polish it and it would be very shiny. This is the in- country newspaper that our, one of our volunteers did. And this is just a montage here. There I am very pregnant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is when Nelson, maybe Jack Vaughn came to visit, but Nelson Rockefeller also came to visit. And there's an article in here about him. I would be really happy to copy that whole thing if you want to send it with the tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, um, actually, that is, I think that the archives might be interested in this, but that is something that I would direct. Have you discussed directly with the archivist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.66651250359532, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could polish it and it would be very shiny. This is the in- country newspaper that our, one of our volunteers did. And this is just a montage here. There I am very pregnant."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is when Nelson, maybe Jack Vaughn came to visit, but Nelson Rockefeller also came to visit. And there's an article in here about him. I would be really happy to copy that whole thing if you want to send it with the tapes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, um, actually, that is, I think that the archives might be interested in this, but that is something that I would direct. Have you discussed directly with the archivist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they've asked us to do it that way, so, but yes, I would think this would be something that, um, that the archives would be very interested in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.353719140241136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they've asked us to do it that way, so, but yes, I would think this would be something that, um, that the archives would be very interested in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there's some interesting politics in here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a story that we wrote about our experience, “La Catracha That Almost Wasn't.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.090106904802826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then this, this is the really interesting thing is Nelson Rockefeller came down and one of the, um. There was a group of nurses who came down after we were there. And this one, Bonnie Hagan, actually came and stayed with us for a while when she first got to Cortes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember if she was just there for a little while and then went to a different site, or if she found a place and stayed living in Cortes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she kind of spearheaded a meeting with Rockefeller. And I just read this the other night when, you know, preparing for today. And he was very savvy. He didn't choose to meet one-on-one and just have a lot of questions from volunteers. He invited a specific number to come and be one at a table at a luncheon so that that way he could hear from his people. He could get more information that way so that each volunteer would be sharing with table mates that information would be relayed back to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.766785449780918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember if she was just there for a little while and then went to a different site, or if she found a place and stayed living in Cortes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But she kind of spearheaded a meeting with Rockefeller. And I just read this the other night when, you know, preparing for today. And he was very savvy. He didn't choose to meet one-on-one and just have a lot of questions from volunteers. He invited a specific number to come and be one at a table at a luncheon so that that way he could hear from his people. He could get more information that way so that each volunteer would be sharing with table mates that information would be relayed back to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. As you reflect back on your two years, um, is there anything in terms of a negative situation that stands out in your mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.28228456760071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The biggest negative for me was busting the lady that I worked for at the comedor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, um, it was just kind of, I think I was just ill advised in doing that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I just, I, I can't blame her for what she was doing and I blame myself for that food source being removed. And it was so critical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably growing out of the cultural differences."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.459610577284828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I just, I, I can't blame her for what she was doing and I blame myself for that food source being removed. And it was so critical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably growing out of the cultural differences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I mean, I thought that I was doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, in retrospect, I don't think I would. I would do that differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the flip of that, and the flip of that question, what stands out as a real highlight of your experience?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.732900641427586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I mean, I thought that I was doing the right thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you know, in retrospect, I don't think I would. I would do that differently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the flip of that, and the flip of that question, what stands out as a real highlight of your experience?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Children. Making friends with the children who used to come and play all the time. They were just so cute. I look back on some slides and just these darling little kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make, um, friends with like counterpart types of people, people that you've retained a relationship with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.693417785657457, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's no way of knowing. And the mail, you just, you know, name the barrio that people live in, and that's the address. So it's kind of sketchy. We had a couple of estado de sitio, state of siege situations. Elections go awry and military clampdowns and that, and the actual war with Salvador were kind of hair-raising situations because there were vigilante groups. And it was, it was certainly wise to be really cautious. I'm not a daredevil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband was a very productive volunteer. He worked in co-ops. He'd been an econ major and he just took to that, helping people develop businesses. He worked with the local bus route in Cortes, just the city bus that, it was kind of a long stretched out city. And then it would travel to the little barrios around. And they all got together and they formed an actual route so that they, they made some advances. It was no longer as haphazard as it had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he worked with another group of bus drivers who had a route that went out to the Guatemala border. You went right along, it just was a west, directly west to the Guatemala border. And they actually bought a bus. They banded together and they bought a bus, a used school bus from, it came out of New Orleans and was shipped down. And so that was wonderful. It was very, very exciting for everyone. And then he also worked with the fishermen and they formed a co-op and they bought a freezer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.770464206286064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My husband was a very productive volunteer. He worked in co-ops. He'd been an econ major and he just took to that, helping people develop businesses. He worked with the local bus route in Cortes, just the city bus that, it was kind of a long stretched out city. And then it would travel to the little barrios around. And they all got together and they formed an actual route so that they, they made some advances. It was no longer as haphazard as it had been."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he worked with another group of bus drivers who had a route that went out to the Guatemala border. You went right along, it just was a west, directly west to the Guatemala border. And they actually bought a bus. They banded together and they bought a bus, a used school bus from, it came out of New Orleans and was shipped down. And so that was wonderful. It was very, very exciting for everyone. And then he also worked with the fishermen and they formed a co-op and they bought a freezer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was just tremendous strides. And the pride and excitement that went with these groups that they were able to work together was, it was just thrilling to see. You know, they'd paint signs for the fishermen and cooperativa pesquera de Puerto Cortes. And it was a lot of excitement with that, a lot of pride."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was he able to do that same kind of work once you were transferred into the city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.844258170488427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When he went to Tegucigalpa, they assigned him to the agrarian reform agency, INA [Instituto Nacional Agrario]. And he went, he had a great time there. He didn't work with co-ops at all. He worked with maybe public information, I'm not sure. But he went out a couple of times on trips, taking transformers and projectors and visiting remote sites. And it was all to do with agrarian reform. He was there for such a short time, you know, just a couple of months that, I don't know. He probably was learning more than he was imparting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Speaking of transformers, one of the best things that I ever did was to bring films from the USIS. Took a projector and a transformer and had a few film evenings for the parents of the children in the comedor. And the very favorite one was one about Jackie Kennedy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was her trip to India with her sister. And the people just loved it. Just loved it. It was just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did they relate to, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.203793748392735, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For free."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the children's school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was just such an unusual thing. It was, it was a great success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes. Have you ever been back to Honduras since you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.115326387103039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the children's school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Was just such an unusual thing. It was, it was a great success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes. Have you ever been back to Honduras since you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think you will?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.228798008769185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I haven't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You think you will?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I will, I want to very much. My daughter Hillary, who was born there, and her younger sister did go. But they got stuck in the Bay of Islands getting licensed for scuba instead of making their way into the campo. I have discussed going back with the lady who was in my group. We've talked about it a few times. Maybe one of these years soon we will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Hurricane Mitch struck Honduras in '97 or whenever that was, maybe '98, it crisscrossed two or three times and just devastated the whole country. I, um, I contacted. What's the name of that, Power Bar people? They're right up here in the industrial park. I asked them if they would donate. I'm so embarrassed I can't remember the name right now. I wrote to The News-Press editorial letter to the editor. They donated a pallet of these pre-wrapped nutrition bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. That's great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5875533430768725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I will, I want to very much. My daughter Hillary, who was born there, and her younger sister did go. But they got stuck in the Bay of Islands getting licensed for scuba instead of making their way into the campo. I have discussed going back with the lady who was in my group. We've talked about it a few times. Maybe one of these years soon we will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When Hurricane Mitch struck Honduras in '97 or whenever that was, maybe '98, it crisscrossed two or three times and just devastated the whole country. I, um, I contacted. What's the name of that, Power Bar people? They're right up here in the industrial park. I asked them if they would donate. I'm so embarrassed I can't remember the name right now. I wrote to The News-Press editorial letter to the editor. They donated a pallet of these pre-wrapped nutrition bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember the name right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure I can pull it up either."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.317967090218361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't remember the name right now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm not sure I can pull it up either."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it's one of those nutrition bars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was wonderful. And I got shipped down Jack's Bagels here. There was a drop off spot for donations. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you put that all together?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.050094635296999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were already doing that. I had a cook from Honduras, and so they were receiving. I think actually, it turned out that they, they put a, um, oh, a big storage container there. I think that it got filled with food and things, clothing, and then it shipped, the someone from somewhere, some steamer went out of Houston. The things left from here, and they got sent to Houston and then they went on the steamer right down. So that was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very appreciative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like Power Bar or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cliff is the only other one that comes to my mind at the moment."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.25418658283290013, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it was very generous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they shrink wrapped the whole pallet and off it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that made me happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably no weevils."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.28242953648100017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they shrink wrapped the whole pallet and off it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that made me happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably no weevils."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you reflect back now on those two years that you spent in Honduras, how do you think they've impacted the balance of your life?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I just feel that we're all called to do whatever we can in whatever capacity we are able to. I would love to go back to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd love to work in a Peace Corps training camp. I raised my kids up and now they're having kids. So I'm not on the verge of going anywhere yet, but I'd love to go back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just, I've always felt that we got more out of it than we were able to give."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think many of us feel that way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, right. It's overwhelming. The problem is really overwhelming. It's just, I get emotional thinking about it. Of all of the women that I spoke to about birth control, two to my knowledge went to the clinic and had IUDs put in. One of them was so glad. Every time I'd see her, she'd say thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She didn't know it was possible to not have a baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Every year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year, and she didn't want to keep doing that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jenifer, you're a wonderful storyteller. You remember such detail. I'm impressed. I thank you for sharing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She didn't know it was possible to not have a baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Every year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year, and she didn't want to keep doing that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jenifer, you're a wonderful storyteller. You remember such detail. I'm impressed. I thank you for sharing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, thank you for doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Peace Corps story. I think we've covered most of the important points. And you have, you leave a legacy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year, and she didn't want to keep doing that. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jenifer, you're a wonderful storyteller. You remember such detail. I'm impressed. I thank you for sharing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, thank you for doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Peace Corps story. I think we've covered most of the important points. And you have, you leave a legacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the archives of the United States."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, thank you for doing this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your Peace Corps story. I think we've covered most of the important points. And you have, you leave a legacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the archives of the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my little Honduran baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. She's another legacy."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00195:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the archives of the United States."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my little Honduran baby."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. She's another legacy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A living legacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right. Well, again, I thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.75964026363698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there’s all our bosses over in the offices."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you think about maybe 20 or 25 people involved in a test for the 11-foot chamber?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about for the ETA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ETA, it would be very similar. Again, I don’t remember how many techs were in the intermediate altitude pressure. Pretty much the same, other than the fact that you don’t have a treadmill operating. You still have all of the same safety concerns, so pretty much the same amount of people for that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would simulations run the same way? Were there simulations done in the chambers and the ETA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.399600292929975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about for the ETA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The ETA, it would be very similar. Again, I don’t remember how many techs were in the intermediate altitude pressure. Pretty much the same, other than the fact that you don’t have a treadmill operating. You still have all of the same safety concerns, so pretty much the same amount of people for that too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would simulations run the same way? Were there simulations done in the chambers and the ETA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was rare for the chamber runs to be connected to mission control, for example. Other than every ETA run would have a little bit of malfunction practice. They’d say, “Pretend your fan just stopped operating. Your suit pressure is still okay. What do you do? Now pretend you’ve got a suit leak. Your pressure is dropping at such a rate. What do you do?” So they would do malfunction training. But as far as simulations? You can’t induce a leak on purpose for safety reasons. They would just tell you, “Pretend right now.”\\n\\n The spacesuit would have a checklist on the arm. For a certain emergency, you’d flip to that page and go down those steps to do to first of all isolate the problem and then solve the problem. They’re wearing physical cards on their wrist because you can’t depend on communications because that might be your problem. You may lose com, so you have your physical emergency response checklist right there in front of you. So they would practice. Over the com loop they would tell you, “Okay, now you’ve lost com, what do you do?” You flip to the right card and go through the steps and turn your radio off and then back on and see if that fixed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you ever a test subject yourself in the chambers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.415515090317653, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only when you’re also testing the life support system. There’s a lot of development of both independently, both the suit itself and the backpack. A lot of the evaluations of the suit itself would happen—there are other rooms in Building 7, a suit lab where there was a special separate room where astronauts would go through the motions. For example, there was a glove box where you were testing just gloves to make sure. You put the tools and things for them to pick up inside the glove box, where they would evaluate only the gloves to make sure the fingers bend right and they fit you properly.\\n\\n One of the hardest things to fit precisely is a hand, because not only is your size different from your neighbor’s, but the proportion may be different. My ring finger is longer than my index finger, and that’s not true for everybody. It started off every glove was custom-built. Then once we had a big enough inventory, well, sometimes an astronaut would come in, and they’d happen to be the same size as the previous astronaut, and they’d go, “Close enough,” so they would reuse some gloves that way. It was normal for people to have custom-built gloves.\\n\\n Other design changes would be developed and be sent down here to Houston and the astronauts would go through. We’d schedule a number of astronauts to come into Building 7 and our suit fit room and just have them evaluate things not in the chambers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever do any endurance testing here at JSC? Or was that all done at Delaware?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was all Delaware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can the chambers do any thermal testing, or is that done in another facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Building 7 chambers were only vacuum. All the thermal testing was done in Building 32, the SESL (Space Environment Simulation Lab). They have Chamber A and Chamber B. Chamber A is the four-story-tall huge door movie feature vacuum chamber. Their eight-foot chamber is the smaller one, but they’re both thermally capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the chambers used for anything else for the Shuttle Program besides testing suits?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.017238989241836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was all Delaware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can the chambers do any thermal testing, or is that done in another facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Building 7 chambers were only vacuum. All the thermal testing was done in Building 32, the SESL (Space Environment Simulation Lab). They have Chamber A and Chamber B. Chamber A is the four-story-tall huge door movie feature vacuum chamber. Their eight-foot chamber is the smaller one, but they’re both thermally capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the chambers used for anything else for the Shuttle Program besides testing suits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say yes, but not that I can remember. Sometimes they just want to expose something else to vacuum, could be just another Shuttle system maybe, not that I was involved in. Since I was a suit engineer, there were a lot of things that happened that I wasn’t part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the manned maneuvering unit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.352487765824261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Building 7 chambers were only vacuum. All the thermal testing was done in Building 32, the SESL (Space Environment Simulation Lab). They have Chamber A and Chamber B. Chamber A is the four-story-tall huge door movie feature vacuum chamber. Their eight-foot chamber is the smaller one, but they’re both thermally capable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the chambers used for anything else for the Shuttle Program besides testing suits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say yes, but not that I can remember. Sometimes they just want to expose something else to vacuum, could be just another Shuttle system maybe, not that I was involved in. Since I was a suit engineer, there were a lot of things that happened that I wasn’t part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the manned maneuvering unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later, when I was a safety engineer, that was one of my systems. As a suit engineer, we were concerned with the interface with the MMU, make sure the suit clearances would be good so when they put the MMU on they had room, they were able to reach the controls, that kind of thing. So I was aware of it. I’m trying to remember where the testing happened for the MMU, because there’s no place on Earth that would let you fly it just because it had such small jets.\\n\\n As a safety engineer, it was one of my systems. I did go out to Colorado, where the Martin Marietta plant was, to do design review. But also, unfortunately, it was on my watch that they canceled the program. So the MMU was mothballed in front of my eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been disappointing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.836097517582512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I want to say yes, but not that I can remember. Sometimes they just want to expose something else to vacuum, could be just another Shuttle system maybe, not that I was involved in. Since I was a suit engineer, there were a lot of things that happened that I wasn’t part of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the manned maneuvering unit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later, when I was a safety engineer, that was one of my systems. As a suit engineer, we were concerned with the interface with the MMU, make sure the suit clearances would be good so when they put the MMU on they had room, they were able to reach the controls, that kind of thing. So I was aware of it. I’m trying to remember where the testing happened for the MMU, because there’s no place on Earth that would let you fly it just because it had such small jets.\\n\\n As a safety engineer, it was one of my systems. I did go out to Colorado, where the Martin Marietta plant was, to do design review. But also, unfortunately, it was on my watch that they canceled the program. So the MMU was mothballed in front of my eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did testing of the spacesuit change at all as a result of the malfunctions on STS-5?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.484552797313903, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Later, when I was a safety engineer, that was one of my systems. As a suit engineer, we were concerned with the interface with the MMU, make sure the suit clearances would be good so when they put the MMU on they had room, they were able to reach the controls, that kind of thing. So I was aware of it. I’m trying to remember where the testing happened for the MMU, because there’s no place on Earth that would let you fly it just because it had such small jets.\\n\\n As a safety engineer, it was one of my systems. I did go out to Colorado, where the Martin Marietta plant was, to do design review. But also, unfortunately, it was on my watch that they canceled the program. So the MMU was mothballed in front of my eyes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been disappointing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did testing of the spacesuit change at all as a result of the malfunctions on STS-5?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. First of all, once the required design changes were made, there was something new to test just to make sure that those new design fixes worked. They added another kind of test to the fan speed sensor, but those were more laboratory type tests as opposed to chamber tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does the facility over at Building 7 ever have to reconfigure for a new mission, or is it pretty much static for every mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.093947552571002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did testing of the spacesuit change at all as a result of the malfunctions on STS-5?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. First of all, once the required design changes were made, there was something new to test just to make sure that those new design fixes worked. They added another kind of test to the fan speed sensor, but those were more laboratory type tests as opposed to chamber tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does the facility over at Building 7 ever have to reconfigure for a new mission, or is it pretty much static for every mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because their main purpose is to test the suits and the suits don’t change, it’s pretty much static. Sometimes they’ll do new procedures. For example, when we first started doing Shuttle-Mir missions, we had the new docking compartment and the external air. When they moved the airlock from inside the Orbiter cabin into the payload bay, the configuration of our chamber had to change a little bit just because the controls were a little bit different and the opening of the hatch was a little bit different. But once the Orbiter configuration was known, then there’s not much to change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything change over time as the Shuttle flights grew much more advanced or complex? Anything maybe with the Hubble Space Telescope?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.77105283619, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. First of all, once the required design changes were made, there was something new to test just to make sure that those new design fixes worked. They added another kind of test to the fan speed sensor, but those were more laboratory type tests as opposed to chamber tests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does the facility over at Building 7 ever have to reconfigure for a new mission, or is it pretty much static for every mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because their main purpose is to test the suits and the suits don’t change, it’s pretty much static. Sometimes they’ll do new procedures. For example, when we first started doing Shuttle-Mir missions, we had the new docking compartment and the external air. When they moved the airlock from inside the Orbiter cabin into the payload bay, the configuration of our chamber had to change a little bit just because the controls were a little bit different and the opening of the hatch was a little bit different. But once the Orbiter configuration was known, then there’s not much to change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything change over time as the Shuttle flights grew much more advanced or complex? Anything maybe with the Hubble Space Telescope?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, because they’re just testing the suit, not much changed based on that. But the things they use the suit for, for example, when we did take the suits over to Building 32 for the thermovac test, they would have different tools to evaluate. For example, on the STS-61 mission they would evaluate the touch temperature of the tools and make sure that the gloves were good enough to protect you enough from cold temperatures. Unfortunately, one of the astronauts for that mission pushed himself so far that he ended up getting frostbite, so had to recover from that before he could fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any other unusual equipment that was over in Building 7 that we haven’t talked about, other than the chambers and the ETA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.4122809291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because their main purpose is to test the suits and the suits don’t change, it’s pretty much static. Sometimes they’ll do new procedures. For example, when we first started doing Shuttle-Mir missions, we had the new docking compartment and the external air. When they moved the airlock from inside the Orbiter cabin into the payload bay, the configuration of our chamber had to change a little bit just because the controls were a little bit different and the opening of the hatch was a little bit different. But once the Orbiter configuration was known, then there’s not much to change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did anything change over time as the Shuttle flights grew much more advanced or complex? Anything maybe with the Hubble Space Telescope?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, because they’re just testing the suit, not much changed based on that. But the things they use the suit for, for example, when we did take the suits over to Building 32 for the thermovac test, they would have different tools to evaluate. For example, on the STS-61 mission they would evaluate the touch temperature of the tools and make sure that the gloves were good enough to protect you enough from cold temperatures. Unfortunately, one of the astronauts for that mission pushed himself so far that he ended up getting frostbite, so had to recover from that before he could fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any other unusual equipment that was over in Building 7 that we haven’t talked about, other than the chambers and the ETA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several things that weren’t used during my tenure there. There was a drop tower there for a while, but we didn’t use that. We were right next door to Building 29 when they put the WET-F [Weightless Environment Training Facility] in, the swimming pool there. I wasn’t there when the centrifuge was still in Building 29, but again it wasn’t my building, but I was a neighbor. There may have been some things in the various smaller labs not related to the spacesuits that I’m not aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m guessing this didn’t have any impact on your facility, but did the flying of DoD [Department of Defense] classified missions have any impact on your facility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.235867699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Again, because they’re just testing the suit, not much changed based on that. But the things they use the suit for, for example, when we did take the suits over to Building 32 for the thermovac test, they would have different tools to evaluate. For example, on the STS-61 mission they would evaluate the touch temperature of the tools and make sure that the gloves were good enough to protect you enough from cold temperatures. Unfortunately, one of the astronauts for that mission pushed himself so far that he ended up getting frostbite, so had to recover from that before he could fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there any other unusual equipment that was over in Building 7 that we haven’t talked about, other than the chambers and the ETA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several things that weren’t used during my tenure there. There was a drop tower there for a while, but we didn’t use that. We were right next door to Building 29 when they put the WET-F [Weightless Environment Training Facility] in, the swimming pool there. I wasn’t there when the centrifuge was still in Building 29, but again it wasn’t my building, but I was a neighbor. There may have been some things in the various smaller labs not related to the spacesuits that I’m not aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m guessing this didn’t have any impact on your facility, but did the flying of DoD [Department of Defense] classified missions have any impact on your facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were aware of those missions, but since the suit is a publicly known item, they couldn’t classify that. My part of the building was never under any special conditions for secrecy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us a listing of some of the main contractors who provided support in Building 7 when you were working over there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.15096411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were several things that weren’t used during my tenure there. There was a drop tower there for a while, but we didn’t use that. We were right next door to Building 29 when they put the WET-F [Weightless Environment Training Facility] in, the swimming pool there. I wasn’t there when the centrifuge was still in Building 29, but again it wasn’t my building, but I was a neighbor. There may have been some things in the various smaller labs not related to the spacesuits that I’m not aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m guessing this didn’t have any impact on your facility, but did the flying of DoD [Department of Defense] classified missions have any impact on your facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were aware of those missions, but since the suit is a publicly known item, they couldn’t classify that. My part of the building was never under any special conditions for secrecy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us a listing of some of the main contractors who provided support in Building 7 when you were working over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll start with the suit. The Apollo suits were made by ILC. The Space Shuttle suits were all made by ILC. Hamilton Standard all made the life support system for the spacesuits for both Apollo and Shuttle. Those were constants. David Clark made the launch and entry suits, but I don’t think they maintained a presence in Building 7. The chamber support, again it changed some, but I want to say Lockheed was one of the contractors. I’m not the authority there. I can’t remember clearly enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s been a while. Is there anybody that you would recommend that we talk to about this facility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.1677379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. We were aware of those missions, but since the suit is a publicly known item, they couldn’t classify that. My part of the building was never under any special conditions for secrecy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give us a listing of some of the main contractors who provided support in Building 7 when you were working over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll start with the suit. The Apollo suits were made by ILC. The Space Shuttle suits were all made by ILC. Hamilton Standard all made the life support system for the spacesuits for both Apollo and Shuttle. Those were constants. David Clark made the launch and entry suits, but I don’t think they maintained a presence in Building 7. The chamber support, again it changed some, but I want to say Lockheed was one of the contractors. I’m not the authority there. I can’t remember clearly enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s been a while. Is there anybody that you would recommend that we talk to about this facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can help you, yes. To me the group of people that would know the chambers best would include the test directors for those tests. I know there was a test director named Steve [N.] Martin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The comedian? [Laughs]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 15.741931000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ll start with the suit. The Apollo suits were made by ILC. The Space Shuttle suits were all made by ILC. Hamilton Standard all made the life support system for the spacesuits for both Apollo and Shuttle. Those were constants. David Clark made the launch and entry suits, but I don’t think they maintained a presence in Building 7. The chamber support, again it changed some, but I want to say Lockheed was one of the contractors. I’m not the authority there. I can’t remember clearly enough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it’s been a while. Is there anybody that you would recommend that we talk to about this facility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can help you, yes. To me the group of people that would know the chambers best would include the test directors for those tests. I know there was a test director named Steve [N.] Martin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The comedian? [Laughs]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, one of three Steve Martins I’ve worked with here at NASA. Before we met today, I was hoping to bring an old phone book I have. I’ve got at least a 1989 phone book. I’m hoping an earlier one would have some of those names and job functions listed there. When we break here, I’ll go get that for you. Steve Martin was a test director. James [M.] Skipper was highly active. Again, I can’t tell you for sure if these people are still with NASA or not.\\n\\n I didn’t work with him much, but I was aware of him, I want to say Reagan [S.] Redman. I know he went over to Building 32 later, but I think he would be knowledgeable for Building 7 chambers also. [Walter W.] Guy just retired, but he was the boss there for quite a while in Building 7."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Before we turned on the recorder this morning, you had mentioned that you did some work with the suits in the KC-135 and some other locations. Do you want to share those details with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, nicknamed Ox. The smaller women were hard to fit just because the physics of a long thin balloon is a lot easier to bend than a short thick balloon. Because of the backpack, our upper torsos were constrained to a certain diameter. They couldn’t be made much smaller. Because the structural interface between the upper torso, which is made of rigid fiberglass, and the backpack, their mounting points were set in design. It was very hard to make a smaller diameter suit to fit smaller people. Small men or small women both had trouble getting fit. The smallest of the women, we were never able to get a good mobile suit to fit them very well. Even though the design goal was to fit everyone, well, there were some people that we wouldn’t have been able to fit for EVA suits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think is the significance of Building 7 in relation to the Shuttle Program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the Shuttle missions was building Space Station, and the only way you could build Space Station was through EVA. You can’t build modules that will automatically reliably attach themselves, so you had to go out there and actually help out with the people present. EVAs are a common thing now. Every mission has four or five EVAs now. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know how much testing goes on in Building 7 now for the Shuttle suit prep, but I’m sure they still must use the airlock trainer every mission. They still must do that.\\n\\n It was essential; it was core. The functions that happened in Building 7 would have to happen, or else the rest of Space Station wouldn’t happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wanted to check with you and see if we’ve talked about all these different facilities that they had listed. Did we talk about the Shuttle EMU/Airlock/Life Support Test Facility? Is that something that we had talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To me, I don’t know of anything other than the ETA that would do that, but yes, I would think that would be the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The system component vacuum test facility? Is that the various chambers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of the Shuttle missions was building Space Station, and the only way you could build Space Station was through EVA. You can’t build modules that will automatically reliably attach themselves, so you had to go out there and actually help out with the people present. EVAs are a common thing now. Every mission has four or five EVAs now. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know how much testing goes on in Building 7 now for the Shuttle suit prep, but I’m sure they still must use the airlock trainer every mission. They still must do that.\\n\\n It was essential; it was core. The functions that happened in Building 7 would have to happen, or else the rest of Space Station wouldn’t happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just wanted to check with you and see if we’ve talked about all these different facilities that they had listed. Did we talk about the Shuttle EMU/Airlock/Life Support Test Facility? Is that something that we had talked about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To me, I don’t know of anything other than the ETA that would do that, but yes, I would think that would be the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The system component vacuum test facility? Is that the various chambers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They added another vacuum chamber after my time there, a two-foot chamber. I’m not sure what they do in there. The eight-foot chamber is for just the backpack itself, so that would qualify as a small system test vacuum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our last question that we’ve been asking everybody: do you have any documents or any memos, letters, anything like that, about the facility that might be helpful?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To me, I don’t know of anything other than the ETA that would do that, but yes, I would think that would be the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The system component vacuum test facility? Is that the various chambers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They added another vacuum chamber after my time there, a two-foot chamber. I’m not sure what they do in there. The eight-foot chamber is for just the backpack itself, so that would qualify as a small system test vacuum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our last question that we’ve been asking everybody: do you have any documents or any memos, letters, anything like that, about the facility that might be helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I’m still looking through my stuff. I’m trying to think if I ever had any pictures of Building 7. Other than pictures of just people, I don’t have good representative pictures of the facility. There was a parade going through JSC, and we had a float. So we have a picture of that, but that’s not relevant to the test facility. I will keep looking, but I don’t think I’ve got much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you very much. Unless there’s anything that you would like to add about Building 7 that we might not have covered, or your work with suits?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00424:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They added another vacuum chamber after my time there, a two-foot chamber. I’m not sure what they do in there. The eight-foot chamber is for just the backpack itself, so that would qualify as a small system test vacuum."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Our last question that we’ve been asking everybody: do you have any documents or any memos, letters, anything like that, about the facility that might be helpful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think so. I’m still looking through my stuff. I’m trying to think if I ever had any pictures of Building 7. Other than pictures of just people, I don’t have good representative pictures of the facility. There was a parade going through JSC, and we had a float. So we have a picture of that, but that’s not relevant to the test facility. I will keep looking, but I don’t think I’ve got much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you very much. Unless there’s anything that you would like to add about Building 7 that we might not have covered, or your work with suits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I’ll think of something, but no. I can’t think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.046336072327442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I worked for a while between college and my graduate program, and that's when I really realized I'd kind of gotten myself burned out on the hospitality industry, and I had almost really gotten burned out even while I was still in college. But I had a go of it after college and then with college, you know, studying public administration and then really applying for Peace Corps. So about six months after I graduated with my master's is when I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was that application process like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was an online process, which I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. So I was very, I was very happy with that. So the application that I had started right out of college was still visible online, like two years later when I decided to pick up the application again, so I didn't have to start from step number one. But, yeah, that application process. My recruiter was in Chicago. I was in southeast Missouri, so I only met my recruiter once. Otherwise, everything was by phone. And after I received my invitation, I also got notification that I needed to have my wisdom teeth removed. And so just how timing was probably about three or four days before Christmas in 2003, I had my wisdom teeth removed. So then in January of '04, I could leave for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you said you had started an application right after college, but you had stopped. What made you stop?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.051484524808266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was an online process, which I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. So I was very, I was very happy with that. So the application that I had started right out of college was still visible online, like two years later when I decided to pick up the application again, so I didn't have to start from step number one. But, yeah, that application process. My recruiter was in Chicago. I was in southeast Missouri, so I only met my recruiter once. Otherwise, everything was by phone. And after I received my invitation, I also got notification that I needed to have my wisdom teeth removed. And so just how timing was probably about three or four days before Christmas in 2003, I had my wisdom teeth removed. So then in January of '04, I could leave for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you said you had started an application right after college, but you had stopped. What made you stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just gotten distracted by other things. And also I had received just a really good opportunity for graduate school where my tuition would be covered. And so I didn't want to turn that opportunity down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, great. And then you said you were in touch with your recruiter for a bit, I mean, how was that process? Was it pretty straightforward? Was there any fear that you wouldn't get accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.168316138675852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. So I was very, I was very happy with that. So the application that I had started right out of college was still visible online, like two years later when I decided to pick up the application again, so I didn't have to start from step number one. But, yeah, that application process. My recruiter was in Chicago. I was in southeast Missouri, so I only met my recruiter once. Otherwise, everything was by phone. And after I received my invitation, I also got notification that I needed to have my wisdom teeth removed. And so just how timing was probably about three or four days before Christmas in 2003, I had my wisdom teeth removed. So then in January of '04, I could leave for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you said you had started an application right after college, but you had stopped. What made you stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just gotten distracted by other things. And also I had received just a really good opportunity for graduate school where my tuition would be covered. And so I didn't want to turn that opportunity down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, great. And then you said you were in touch with your recruiter for a bit, I mean, how was that process? Was it pretty straightforward? Was there any fear that you wouldn't get accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I don't think I ever had any fear that I wouldn't be accepted into the Peace Corps. I will say I went in there with a lot of confidence, probably even more confidence than I had with the same jobs that I was applying for at the same time. Because I was also doing, you know, just to hedge my bets, also applying for some other employment as well. But I was pretty, pretty confident in that. And in fact, he asked me if there's anything, you know, if we accepted you and it's going to be a few months before you leave, is there any life circumstance that might happen that would persuade you not to go? And I said, no, absolutely not. And there wasn't and I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you had gotten any of those jobs, you would have said no to those jobs and taken Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 23.52035126519539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had just gotten distracted by other things. And also I had received just a really good opportunity for graduate school where my tuition would be covered. And so I didn't want to turn that opportunity down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, great. And then you said you were in touch with your recruiter for a bit, I mean, how was that process? Was it pretty straightforward? Was there any fear that you wouldn't get accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I don't think I ever had any fear that I wouldn't be accepted into the Peace Corps. I will say I went in there with a lot of confidence, probably even more confidence than I had with the same jobs that I was applying for at the same time. Because I was also doing, you know, just to hedge my bets, also applying for some other employment as well. But I was pretty, pretty confident in that. And in fact, he asked me if there's anything, you know, if we accepted you and it's going to be a few months before you leave, is there any life circumstance that might happen that would persuade you not to go? And I said, no, absolutely not. And there wasn't and I went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So if you had gotten any of those jobs, you would have said no to those jobs and taken Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yes, I was pretty confident by then. Yes. And in fact, when I, as soon as I pretty much got accepted, like everything stopped, like I stopped looking whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how long did it take from your acceptance until you left the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.93870526567332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yes, I was pretty confident by then. Yes. And in fact, when I, as soon as I pretty much got accepted, like everything stopped, like I stopped looking whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then how long did it take from your acceptance until you left the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it took longer than expected. And so I was accepted sometime around May, even though I didn't have an official invitation yet, I was told one would be coming. And so since I was graduating from graduate school, I decided, well, what else in my life will I have some downtime where I can just do whatever I want? And so I put most of my furniture on the front lawn, including my car, and I packed two bags and I sold everything in a yard sale and I packed two bags and I got on a Greyhound bus and went to New York City. And originally that was supposed to be really like early June through October. But then the October departure for Peace Corps got delayed till January. And so it ended up being six months in New York City, where I did everything from, from waiting tables and cooking at a restaurant to having a nonprofit job where I did some marketing and some really neat projects. So I had about six months of the Big Apple before I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what caused the delay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not really sure. All assignments, apparently, in late 2003 were delayed. And so it wasn't just folks coming to the eastern Caribbean. In fact, a lot of volunteers that I went through training with, they were to go to the South Pacific, but they got switched fairly late to also come to the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know you wanted to go to that area? Did you know what you wanted to do in Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.820783628525913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it took longer than expected. And so I was accepted sometime around May, even though I didn't have an official invitation yet, I was told one would be coming. And so since I was graduating from graduate school, I decided, well, what else in my life will I have some downtime where I can just do whatever I want? And so I put most of my furniture on the front lawn, including my car, and I packed two bags and I sold everything in a yard sale and I packed two bags and I got on a Greyhound bus and went to New York City. And originally that was supposed to be really like early June through October. But then the October departure for Peace Corps got delayed till January. And so it ended up being six months in New York City, where I did everything from, from waiting tables and cooking at a restaurant to having a nonprofit job where I did some marketing and some really neat projects. So I had about six months of the Big Apple before I went into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what caused the delay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not really sure. All assignments, apparently, in late 2003 were delayed. And so it wasn't just folks coming to the eastern Caribbean. In fact, a lot of volunteers that I went through training with, they were to go to the South Pacific, but they got switched fairly late to also come to the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know you wanted to go to that area? Did you know what you wanted to do in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew I wanted to go somewhere that was warm and somewhere politically stable. And it just happened that ended up being the Caribbean, which, um, you know, Dominica. I'd never heard of Dominica before I went there. And it was, um, it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so? Or do you want to get back to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.911981809473236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not really sure. All assignments, apparently, in late 2003 were delayed. And so it wasn't just folks coming to the eastern Caribbean. In fact, a lot of volunteers that I went through training with, they were to go to the South Pacific, but they got switched fairly late to also come to the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know you wanted to go to that area? Did you know what you wanted to do in Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew I wanted to go somewhere that was warm and somewhere politically stable. And it just happened that ended up being the Caribbean, which, um, you know, Dominica. I'd never heard of Dominica before I went there. And it was, um, it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so? Or do you want to get back to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I was just really unfamiliar. I'd never traveled in the Caribbean. I think I had like the stereotypical thought about, oh, it's going to be, you know, just like beaches and drinking a lot of rum and just really having a very relaxing, enjoyable like time and really unaware of the history of it. Like I said, really unaware of really a lot of not only Dominica, but the neighboring countries and really how they function. So it was something totally I hadn't read about in history books or anything of that sort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess one of the questions too is just like, what did you expect? And yeah, and then I guess maybe we can transition when you got the acceptance, like, how did you feel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 24.706150382065722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I mean, I was just really unfamiliar. I'd never traveled in the Caribbean. I think I had like the stereotypical thought about, oh, it's going to be, you know, just like beaches and drinking a lot of rum and just really having a very relaxing, enjoyable like time and really unaware of the history of it. Like I said, really unaware of really a lot of not only Dominica, but the neighboring countries and really how they function. So it was something totally I hadn't read about in history books or anything of that sort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I guess one of the questions too is just like, what did you expect? And yeah, and then I guess maybe we can transition when you got the acceptance, like, how did you feel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Right. So I think I always had like this vision for the Peace Corps that I would I would use like my cooking skills for like an orphanage or something of that sort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just had this vision of just feeding like a lot of children every day. And actually my assignment was nothing close to that. And it was just very different than what I had expected in that regard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I guess we can get back to that later. So then when you started, do you have training here in the U.S., did you go straight to your country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.10524368551398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So English is the official language. But then there's also Creole. And so but it was it has some differences from Saint Lucian Creole. And so even though I had learned some in Saint Lucia, I learned that some of what I learned is not the same in Dominica. And so in Dominica, we had a few other lessons on that as well. But by all means, English is the official language and that's how we communicated most of the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, I mean, did you have extra training when you went there or did you go straight to your site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So we were given a few days of training where we stayed a like a retreat house in Dominica, and then we went to different host families. And so my host family was a woman whose her kids had already grown and left the house. And so, um, so that was my host family. And about once a week or so, we'd go to the capital city for further training, and that seemed to take place for maybe another month or so. But a lot of that time was just then spent around my village and trying to figure out what's going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you guys were separated. So it was just you with this host family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct, correct. There was another volunteer that was close by. Her host family was my community partner, and so I would see her a lot, you know, pretty much daily, just because we were easy walking distance to one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so at that point, you already knew kind of what you would be doing too? You knew who your counterpart would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.71017738952343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct, correct. There was another volunteer that was close by. Her host family was my community partner, and so I would see her a lot, you know, pretty much daily, just because we were easy walking distance to one another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so at that point, you already knew kind of what you would be doing too? You knew who your counterpart would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Yeah. So we learned who our community partners would be at that point and mine was the village council."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the village council met just once a month. And so most of the interaction would be with the village clerk who was, an the village clerk was the one that was the host to another volunteer. And so. So I got to know right away, kind of like what the job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the job? What does the village council do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.1224193216927, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Yeah. So we learned who our community partners would be at that point and mine was the village council."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the village council met just once a month. And so most of the interaction would be with the village clerk who was, an the village clerk was the one that was the host to another volunteer. And so. So I got to know right away, kind of like what the job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the job? What does the village council do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the village council oversees a lot of the management of the village as far as like trash collection or property tax collection, big events such as having a sports day. And this village council in particular, they were starting a community center, and so they'd received funding from the government of Taiwan to build a community center. And so construction had begun on that. And it was really working with them some to think about what how they will use the community center and how they could also use it as a revenue source. But also many other things. So they planned on it being not only where the council could meet, but it would also be the post office of the village. It would also have a fellowship hall where different groups could rent it out or use it. We could also do something like home economics classes in there or after school tutoring. And it was also designed to be the village hurricane shelter, which is really important in the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me just go back. You mentioned host families before. Did you stay in touch with any of the host families from your training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.691577024103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the village council met just once a month. And so most of the interaction would be with the village clerk who was, an the village clerk was the one that was the host to another volunteer. And so. So I got to know right away, kind of like what the job was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the job? What does the village council do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the village council oversees a lot of the management of the village as far as like trash collection or property tax collection, big events such as having a sports day. And this village council in particular, they were starting a community center, and so they'd received funding from the government of Taiwan to build a community center. And so construction had begun on that. And it was really working with them some to think about what how they will use the community center and how they could also use it as a revenue source. But also many other things. So they planned on it being not only where the council could meet, but it would also be the post office of the village. It would also have a fellowship hall where different groups could rent it out or use it. We could also do something like home economics classes in there or after school tutoring. And it was also designed to be the village hurricane shelter, which is really important in the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me just go back. You mentioned host families before. Did you stay in touch with any of the host families from your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I'd like to. Yeah, yeah, go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.323974471225554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So the village council oversees a lot of the management of the village as far as like trash collection or property tax collection, big events such as having a sports day. And this village council in particular, they were starting a community center, and so they'd received funding from the government of Taiwan to build a community center. And so construction had begun on that. And it was really working with them some to think about what how they will use the community center and how they could also use it as a revenue source. But also many other things. So they planned on it being not only where the council could meet, but it would also be the post office of the village. It would also have a fellowship hall where different groups could rent it out or use it. We could also do something like home economics classes in there or after school tutoring. And it was also designed to be the village hurricane shelter, which is really important in the eastern Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me just go back. You mentioned host families before. Did you stay in touch with any of the host families from your training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I'd like to. Yeah, yeah, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, my host family, so the woman that, so I stayed with her for about a month or so before the volunteers were allowed to get their own housing. And she ended up moving out of Dominica. And so I've kind of lost touch with her, but my community partner, I'm still in touch with on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you guys maintain contact?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.693304968028393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then I'd like to. Yeah, yeah, go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, my host family, so the woman that, so I stayed with her for about a month or so before the volunteers were allowed to get their own housing. And she ended up moving out of Dominica. And so I've kind of lost touch with her, but my community partner, I'm still in touch with on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you guys maintain contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So thankfully, I've been able to go back to Dominica multiple times over the years. So myself in that same volunteer that had stayed with my community partner, her and I started a nonprofit organization when we finished our time with the Peace Corps. And the nonprofit works in Dominica with children with disabilities. And so that's allowed me to go back to Dominica several times and pretty much my former community partner kind of treats me like a member of the family and we are also able to stay in touch with each other by WhatsApp and email and Facebook and that sort of thing. So a lot of modern technologies allowed that to happen a lot better than it could have. Even back when I was in the Peace Corps in 2004, which was dial up internet in Dominica and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, but you don't work with your counterpart anymore, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.214783297809324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, my host family, so the woman that, so I stayed with her for about a month or so before the volunteers were allowed to get their own housing. And she ended up moving out of Dominica. And so I've kind of lost touch with her, but my community partner, I'm still in touch with on a regular basis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you guys maintain contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So thankfully, I've been able to go back to Dominica multiple times over the years. So myself in that same volunteer that had stayed with my community partner, her and I started a nonprofit organization when we finished our time with the Peace Corps. And the nonprofit works in Dominica with children with disabilities. And so that's allowed me to go back to Dominica several times and pretty much my former community partner kind of treats me like a member of the family and we are also able to stay in touch with each other by WhatsApp and email and Facebook and that sort of thing. So a lot of modern technologies allowed that to happen a lot better than it could have. Even back when I was in the Peace Corps in 2004, which was dial up internet in Dominica and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, but you don't work with your counterpart anymore, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just have like a friendship with that person."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.905314775343694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So thankfully, I've been able to go back to Dominica multiple times over the years. So myself in that same volunteer that had stayed with my community partner, her and I started a nonprofit organization when we finished our time with the Peace Corps. And the nonprofit works in Dominica with children with disabilities. And so that's allowed me to go back to Dominica several times and pretty much my former community partner kind of treats me like a member of the family and we are also able to stay in touch with each other by WhatsApp and email and Facebook and that sort of thing. So a lot of modern technologies allowed that to happen a lot better than it could have. Even back when I was in the Peace Corps in 2004, which was dial up internet in Dominica and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, but you don't work with your counterpart anymore, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just have like a friendship with that person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I just have a friendship with her and which is great to see, you know, her and now she has grandkids and everything. And so it's wonderful. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So I want to ask you more about that later. But when you got to site, you said you were working with this community center. So what was, you said your role was to kind of give input on what was going to happen with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.783683083715214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just have like a friendship with that person."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I just have a friendship with her and which is great to see, you know, her and now she has grandkids and everything. And so it's wonderful. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So I want to ask you more about that later. But when you got to site, you said you were working with this community center. So what was, you said your role was to kind of give input on what was going to happen with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what do you feel like? What did you do with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.75964787079468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I just have a friendship with her and which is great to see, you know, her and now she has grandkids and everything. And so it's wonderful. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So I want to ask you more about that later. But when you got to site, you said you were working with this community center. So what was, you said your role was to kind of give input on what was going to happen with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, what do you feel like? What did you do with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So the actual structure was already decided upon and there was already workers doing that. So I wasn't needed for any physical work for that. But it was to figure out really what sorts of events would happen there and also try to get some corporate sponsorships of that. And so really, just talking with a lot of businesses in the capital city, Roseau, the capital, you know, trying to talk with them about sponsoring the community center and that. And so that was mostly what that part was and that really didn't take a lot of time. And so I ended up getting a lot of secondary projects, which took up, you know, more of my time and actually probably gave me more energy than just working on the one project.\n\nSo there wasn't a school in my village, and so the kids went either to the town to the north or, excuse me, the village to the north or the village to the south. And so I visited both primary schools and both villages, and definitely the one in the south was a lot more receptive to having me there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.311195567739805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And see, yeah, like former students that are, you know, adults now. And it's like, oh, OK, you know, like early, you know, see how they turned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. Anything where you really feel like you made an impact on any one person in particular?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Right. Well, I think, you know, I'm not quite sure like one person in particular, that much of an impact, but I will. Like some things like, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "General impact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, when I was a Peace Corps volunteer, the school had asked different community members to come in and read a book. They were having a week that was really focused on reading and asked different community members come in. And so I said that I would go in and I read a story about a rabbit that had a basket of fruit. And part of it was that I had cut out different fruits on construction paper, and that was part of the story, was to show different things as I went along. And so that was sometime in 2004. And I went back in 2014 and I had completely forgotten all about this because it was just an hour-long experience of reading a story. And the teacher saw me walking through the school talking with the principal, and she came in and stopped me. And she's like, she said, you know, I still read that book. Because I'd left the book behind. And she even pointed out my construction paper was still on the wall ten years later. And so that was, that really just kind of warmed my heart, that something that I'd even forgotten that I had done, you know, she mentioned. And how then she reads, you know, whatever class she has that year, they learn that book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, you mentioned a few projects already. I mean, it's quite a bit. Is anything else you were working on that you're really proud of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.699856745870788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I will say one thing that I was really proud of, was that I was asked to lead the project design and management training for other Peace Corps volunteers. So the ones that came in six months after us. And so not only in Dominica, but also from other parts of the eastern Caribbean. Came into to two-day training on project design and management that I was able to develop and facilitate. And I will say I was really, really proud of that because that gave me an opportunity to kind of share some of my knowledge with other volunteers that didn't use it in whatever kind of projects they were focused on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of knowledge or insights did you share?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I really wish I remembered a lot of it now. But it was all through the design process of like working with community partners and thinking about what projects the community needs and thinking about those needs and how those might be addressed and then how to really make it come to life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then I mean, what about your day to day? What did you do for fun? Did you hang out with other people in your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so my village was about maybe 10 minute drive south of the capital, or I could walk to the capital maybe in about 20 minutes or so. But transportation was pretty common. And my house, so I lived downstairs from a family. And so I think in the U.S., we'd call it a duplex, where a family lived upstairs. And then I was downstairs in a small, but still plenty of space, two bedroom, one bath unit, where outside my back door, probably about 12 feet beyond my door, was the Caribbean Sea. And so I was right on the water. So I spent a lot of time and there was a seawall there, which most of the time kept the Caribbean Sea out of my house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most of the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.624686398217934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it wasn't quite as laid back as you thought?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, yeah, probably wasn't quite as laid back as I, it definitely wasn't quite as laid back as I originally thought of the Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I hadn't under, um, just the stereotypical thought of the Caribbean. We don't think about the social problems of the Caribbean or the poverty that exists there. And so I think with working on so many projects, it wasn't that I was hanging out at a resort, you know, drinking pina coladas all day. I was actually like in the villages and doing a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned social problems. What kind of social problems did you see?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.471873775797704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it wasn't, yeah, probably wasn't quite as laid back as I, it definitely wasn't quite as laid back as I originally thought of the Caribbean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I hadn't under, um, just the stereotypical thought of the Caribbean. We don't think about the social problems of the Caribbean or the poverty that exists there. And so I think with working on so many projects, it wasn't that I was hanging out at a resort, you know, drinking pina coladas all day. I was actually like in the villages and doing a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned social problems. What kind of social problems did you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So a lot of, I think a lot of problems revolved around unemployment being 25 percent was difficult. A lot of broken families, where a parent has left the country for work. And so the parent may be in Canada or the U.S. or in Europe and sending money back. So maybe, so families kind of split for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of that on the families left back in the host country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.413193084219671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I hadn't under, um, just the stereotypical thought of the Caribbean. We don't think about the social problems of the Caribbean or the poverty that exists there. And so I think with working on so many projects, it wasn't that I was hanging out at a resort, you know, drinking pina coladas all day. I was actually like in the villages and doing a lot of other things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned social problems. What kind of social problems did you see?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So a lot of, I think a lot of problems revolved around unemployment being 25 percent was difficult. A lot of broken families, where a parent has left the country for work. And so the parent may be in Canada or the U.S. or in Europe and sending money back. So maybe, so families kind of split for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of that on the families left back in the host country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think part of that is just, you know, you might only see your parent like once every couple of years, right? And so a lot of grandparents or aunts then like raising, you know, children that aren't their own children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, then other things, what did you miss the? Oh, well, yeah. What did you miss the most when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.459103426910746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So a lot of, I think a lot of problems revolved around unemployment being 25 percent was difficult. A lot of broken families, where a parent has left the country for work. And so the parent may be in Canada or the U.S. or in Europe and sending money back. So maybe, so families kind of split for that reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the impact of that on the families left back in the host country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think part of that is just, you know, you might only see your parent like once every couple of years, right? And so a lot of grandparents or aunts then like raising, you know, children that aren't their own children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, then other things, what did you miss the? Oh, well, yeah. What did you miss the most when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. What did I miss the most? Air conditioning probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really hot?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.399003807678605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think part of that is just, you know, you might only see your parent like once every couple of years, right? And so a lot of grandparents or aunts then like raising, you know, children that aren't their own children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, then other things, what did you miss the? Oh, well, yeah. What did you miss the most when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. What did I miss the most? Air conditioning probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really hot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really hot. There were some areas in the mountains that kind of cooled down at night. But since I was right on the coast and my house basically just soaked in the sun all day long. And then at night, the heat just came back out of the concrete to the house. That was really, really hot. Once a month when we would get paid by the Peace Corps, I would actually look forward to going to the bank because the bank was, the bank always had like a really, really long line. And so I knew that I could at least stand in line for half an hour. But I was standing in line for half an hour in air conditioning and it was going to be wonderful. And so I would look forward to that. But you know, some of the little things, like I missed going into like a bookstore and just like browsing books. And one of the downsides I think about having American television was that also I got American ads, and so I would see restaurants or stores advertised on television and knew that I couldn't go to any of those. And so it was kind of like a reminder about, oh yeah, you're not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know, like any particular ads stand out, taunting that you couldn't go there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.221115341865117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hmm. What did I miss the most? Air conditioning probably."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really hot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was really hot. There were some areas in the mountains that kind of cooled down at night. But since I was right on the coast and my house basically just soaked in the sun all day long. And then at night, the heat just came back out of the concrete to the house. That was really, really hot. Once a month when we would get paid by the Peace Corps, I would actually look forward to going to the bank because the bank was, the bank always had like a really, really long line. And so I knew that I could at least stand in line for half an hour. But I was standing in line for half an hour in air conditioning and it was going to be wonderful. And so I would look forward to that. But you know, some of the little things, like I missed going into like a bookstore and just like browsing books. And one of the downsides I think about having American television was that also I got American ads, and so I would see restaurants or stores advertised on television and knew that I couldn't go to any of those. And so it was kind of like a reminder about, oh yeah, you're not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you know, like any particular ads stand out, taunting that you couldn't go there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I do remember, because I had worked for a while actually when I was in New York at Red Lobster, and so I'd see Red Lobster ads and be like, oh, I wish I could go there. And even though, of course, I had all kinds of seafood around me, but yeah, I was just thinking about, oh, it'd be great to have that. Well, you know, not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I didn't even ask, I mean, you kind of talked a little bit about your housing, it was somewhat of duplex. Did you guys have running water? Did you have electricity? What was it like there? Did you guys have restaurants in your town?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.277250126015248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So we did have running water and we did have electricity, and most of the time those worked. There's occasional power outages and sometimes the water was out. It was common in my village to actually go up the mountain and collect water and so save your plastic bottles and then go up there and actually collect water directly from a spring that was up there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they always do that even when they had running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fresher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because, yes, it was fresher, and it probably did taste a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you drink the running water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.53027791779472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fresher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because, yes, it was fresher, and it probably did taste a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you drink the running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we could drink the running water and we could drink the water from the spring. And so we never had difficulty with that. The family that lived above me, they had two dogs that were always outside, and so there were two wonderful dogs that also would bark at anyone that came by. And so that was always a, you know, a good alarm that someone was coming. But also, since I lived so close to the capital, I had a lot of Peace Corps volunteers just visit. If they'd have to go to the capital for something, then quite often they'd either stop in and see me either coming or going, or also just overnight at my place before heading back to to their village. So I saw a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers on a fairly regular basis throughout that. My village had a few small little shops and bars, but almost everything was in the capital city, but not too far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and there you could probably get almost anything. Do they have, like a lot of just, did they have American restaurants?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.478086575327467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And because, yes, it was fresher, and it probably did taste a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you drink the running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we could drink the running water and we could drink the water from the spring. And so we never had difficulty with that. The family that lived above me, they had two dogs that were always outside, and so there were two wonderful dogs that also would bark at anyone that came by. And so that was always a, you know, a good alarm that someone was coming. But also, since I lived so close to the capital, I had a lot of Peace Corps volunteers just visit. If they'd have to go to the capital for something, then quite often they'd either stop in and see me either coming or going, or also just overnight at my place before heading back to to their village. So I saw a lot of the other Peace Corps volunteers on a fairly regular basis throughout that. My village had a few small little shops and bars, but almost everything was in the capital city, but not too far."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and there you could probably get almost anything. Do they have, like a lot of just, did they have American restaurants?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at that time, they did have a Kentucky Fried Chicken, but it closed down. Well, actually, actually. So I had avoided going there for the longest time, and I first went to Dominica by the time we got our training down in Saint Lucia, went there in February, so I was in Dominica in February, and I waited until my birthday, which is in late August. And finally, myself and another Peace Corps volunteer, we decided, OK, we're going to go to an American restaurant for your birthday. And we went to, so we went to KFC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For your birthday."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.355662438675886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So at that time, they did have a Kentucky Fried Chicken, but it closed down. Well, actually, actually. So I had avoided going there for the longest time, and I first went to Dominica by the time we got our training down in Saint Lucia, went there in February, so I was in Dominica in February, and I waited until my birthday, which is in late August. And finally, myself and another Peace Corps volunteer, we decided, OK, we're going to go to an American restaurant for your birthday. And we went to, so we went to KFC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For your birthday."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For my birthday. And it wasn't anything like KFC is in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have fountain drinks, and the soda they did have was from Trinidad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how is that different?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.17295826519543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For my birthday. And it wasn't anything like KFC is in the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have fountain drinks, and the soda they did have was from Trinidad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how is that different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just, it's not Pepsi, right? You know, it's not like what I was expecting, right? And they didn't have the biscuits and they didn't have the original, all they had was the spicy, and the air conditioning wasn't working that day. Because that was the other thing we were looking forward to was air conditioning. And shortly after that, KFC closed down in Dominica. But that was really like the only American place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, any other restaurants you like to go to or things you'd like to do in the capital?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.969953627994921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have fountain drinks, and the soda they did have was from Trinidad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how is that different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's just, it's not Pepsi, right? You know, it's not like what I was expecting, right? And they didn't have the biscuits and they didn't have the original, all they had was the spicy, and the air conditioning wasn't working that day. Because that was the other thing we were looking forward to was air conditioning. And shortly after that, KFC closed down in Dominica. But that was really like the only American place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, any other restaurants you like to go to or things you'd like to do in the capital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. In the capital there was a, uh, a Chinese restaurant that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it authentic Chinese food, do you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7900662074011375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. In the capital there was a, uh, a Chinese restaurant that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it authentic Chinese food, do you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat. It was different than what I've had in the U.S., but it was good. Some Taiwanese ran it. And so I got to know them, which was good. The Venezuelan embassy offered free Spanish classes, and so I went to and I enrolled in Spanish classes, which was also interesting to be in a classroom with Dominicans and we're all learning Spanish together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think just different. For one, was just being in a Venezuelan embassy when the U.S. and Venezuela may not necessarily talk to each other on the best of terms at times. So for as an American to be there. And then to be in the classroom with other students, but different ways that we would approach the lessons. But it was a great experience. The ambassador, the Venezuelan ambassador, came and we all wrote different poems in Spanish and recited them and everything. And so I think that was a really good experience where it was outside of my village and the students in the classroom were not from my village. So I was getting to know a lot more, uh, several more Dominicans in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you want to take Spanish classes? Is it learning Spanish or was there something else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.211184674890153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat. It was different than what I've had in the U.S., but it was good. Some Taiwanese ran it. And so I got to know them, which was good. The Venezuelan embassy offered free Spanish classes, and so I went to and I enrolled in Spanish classes, which was also interesting to be in a classroom with Dominicans and we're all learning Spanish together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How so?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think just different. For one, was just being in a Venezuelan embassy when the U.S. and Venezuela may not necessarily talk to each other on the best of terms at times. So for as an American to be there. And then to be in the classroom with other students, but different ways that we would approach the lessons. But it was a great experience. The ambassador, the Venezuelan ambassador, came and we all wrote different poems in Spanish and recited them and everything. And so I think that was a really good experience where it was outside of my village and the students in the classroom were not from my village. So I was getting to know a lot more, uh, several more Dominicans in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you want to take Spanish classes? Is it learning Spanish or was there something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, it was just learning Spanish. You know, one of the things I'd mentioned to my recruiter for Peace Corps was, you know, be open to learning Spanish and that I wanted to go somewhere, as I mentioned, warm and politically stable. And he said, well, you'll probably have a wait list if you're going to any Spanish speaking country. And so I ended up in Dominica instead, but still tried to learn some Spanish while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. What did you do for fun or did you go on a vacation while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.679094083211281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think just different. For one, was just being in a Venezuelan embassy when the U.S. and Venezuela may not necessarily talk to each other on the best of terms at times. So for as an American to be there. And then to be in the classroom with other students, but different ways that we would approach the lessons. But it was a great experience. The ambassador, the Venezuelan ambassador, came and we all wrote different poems in Spanish and recited them and everything. And so I think that was a really good experience where it was outside of my village and the students in the classroom were not from my village. So I was getting to know a lot more, uh, several more Dominicans in that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you want to take Spanish classes? Is it learning Spanish or was there something else?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, it was just learning Spanish. You know, one of the things I'd mentioned to my recruiter for Peace Corps was, you know, be open to learning Spanish and that I wanted to go somewhere, as I mentioned, warm and politically stable. And he said, well, you'll probably have a wait list if you're going to any Spanish speaking country. And so I ended up in Dominica instead, but still tried to learn some Spanish while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. What did you do for fun or did you go on a vacation while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't go on any vacation, but thankfully, you know, would make some time for fun. Dominica is the nature isle of the Caribbean, so a lot of hiking. So a lot of hiking in the rainforest and a lot of just spending time on the beach as well. And so some of that was with friends from the village and sometimes that was friends from Peace Corps. So different volunteers would go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your favorite thing about the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.198993425790312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, it was just learning Spanish. You know, one of the things I'd mentioned to my recruiter for Peace Corps was, you know, be open to learning Spanish and that I wanted to go somewhere, as I mentioned, warm and politically stable. And he said, well, you'll probably have a wait list if you're going to any Spanish speaking country. And so I ended up in Dominica instead, but still tried to learn some Spanish while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. What did you do for fun or did you go on a vacation while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't go on any vacation, but thankfully, you know, would make some time for fun. Dominica is the nature isle of the Caribbean, so a lot of hiking. So a lot of hiking in the rainforest and a lot of just spending time on the beach as well. And so some of that was with friends from the village and sometimes that was friends from Peace Corps. So different volunteers would go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your favorite thing about the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think definitely friendly, friendly people. You know, like walking down the street, you have to say hello to everyone and everyone's going to say hello to you. It's just a really friendly atmosphere and wonderful food. I think, you know, ate a lot of seafood and a lot of fresh fruit during my time there. A lot of different dishes as well, so it was really, it was really good, but I'd say definitely the people were number one and then the food as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. And then let's see. And you said what you miss the most. You've already covered that, right? Or did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7766593619892355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I didn't go on any vacation, but thankfully, you know, would make some time for fun. Dominica is the nature isle of the Caribbean, so a lot of hiking. So a lot of hiking in the rainforest and a lot of just spending time on the beach as well. And so some of that was with friends from the village and sometimes that was friends from Peace Corps. So different volunteers would go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was your favorite thing about the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think definitely friendly, friendly people. You know, like walking down the street, you have to say hello to everyone and everyone's going to say hello to you. It's just a really friendly atmosphere and wonderful food. I think, you know, ate a lot of seafood and a lot of fresh fruit during my time there. A lot of different dishes as well, so it was really, it was really good, but I'd say definitely the people were number one and then the food as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. And then let's see. And you said what you miss the most. You've already covered that, right? Or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I missed the most from the U.S.? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think just really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AC. Yes. I guess changing subjects then. How would you assess your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, the ones to provide technical assistance where requested, to promote better understanding of Americans, and to promote better understanding of other people by Americans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.418510402210262, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think definitely friendly, friendly people. You know, like walking down the street, you have to say hello to everyone and everyone's going to say hello to you. It's just a really friendly atmosphere and wonderful food. I think, you know, ate a lot of seafood and a lot of fresh fruit during my time there. A lot of different dishes as well, so it was really, it was really good, but I'd say definitely the people were number one and then the food as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. And then let's see. And you said what you miss the most. You've already covered that, right? Or did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I missed the most from the U.S.? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think just really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AC. Yes. I guess changing subjects then. How would you assess your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, the ones to provide technical assistance where requested, to promote better understanding of Americans, and to promote better understanding of other people by Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's a lot to cover."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.020567113566957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What I missed the most from the U.S.? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think just really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The AC. Yes. I guess changing subjects then. How would you assess your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, the ones to provide technical assistance where requested, to promote better understanding of Americans, and to promote better understanding of other people by Americans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that's a lot to cover."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, technical assistance. So I did have a master's in public administration and I was working with the municipal government. But I think when it came down to like what technical assistance I was actually providing, it wasn't. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't rocket science that I was providing. However, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask you, what were the expectations? Like being an American, how did people see you and what did they expect of you in terms of technical assistance as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.198231004403651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, technical assistance. So I did have a master's in public administration and I was working with the municipal government. But I think when it came down to like what technical assistance I was actually providing, it wasn't. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't rocket science that I was providing. However, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can I ask you, what were the expectations? Like being an American, how did people see you and what did they expect of you in terms of technical assistance as well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the interesting, I guess what made it so interesting was my community partner was essentially this council that was elected for two year terms, and so I did not report necessarily to one person. And expectations were never really given."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so things were very, very loose and open. And so it was really a lot of it was like me taking the initiative to present things and try to move things forward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's common."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.652137042473643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so things were very, very loose and open. And so it was really a lot of it was like me taking the initiative to present things and try to move things forward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's common."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, um, so I'm not quite sure they knew what to expect from a Peace Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that was a was a bit of a challenge. On some other things, such as like the leadership program or the public speaking, I think there was some technical assistance that I was able to give where, OK, this is part of my background. I can actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you feel much more proud of that work you did there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.447082768485979, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think that was a was a bit of a challenge. On some other things, such as like the leadership program or the public speaking, I think there was some technical assistance that I was able to give where, OK, this is part of my background. I can actually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you feel much more proud of that work you did there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think that work probably had more of an impact than what I was able to do with the village council."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though we did make great progress, part of that community center was a library that started to. had a start on before I was able to, before I left. But the third goal of really having Americans understand like where I've been as a Peace Corps volunteer, I think that's where I've actually had the greatest, where I've shown the greatest. And that's through a lot of things. One is just coming back and like talking with a lot of people about Dominica. And it's not a country many people, even though geographically the U.S. is pretty close, but they haven't heard about Dominica. And then starting a nonprofit with a former Peace Corps volunteer, another returned Peace Corps volunteer, and talking about the needs of children with disabilities in Dominica has given me a lot of opportunity to talk to people from all over about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All over, what do you mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.496758631651087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so. I think that work probably had more of an impact than what I was able to do with the village council."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though we did make great progress, part of that community center was a library that started to. had a start on before I was able to, before I left. But the third goal of really having Americans understand like where I've been as a Peace Corps volunteer, I think that's where I've actually had the greatest, where I've shown the greatest. And that's through a lot of things. One is just coming back and like talking with a lot of people about Dominica. And it's not a country many people, even though geographically the U.S. is pretty close, but they haven't heard about Dominica. And then starting a nonprofit with a former Peace Corps volunteer, another returned Peace Corps volunteer, and talking about the needs of children with disabilities in Dominica has given me a lot of opportunity to talk to people from all over about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All over, what do you mean?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So talking about, you know, I've had the opportunity, one, to write and publish a children's book so I can talk with elementary school kids about what the experience is for children with disabilities in a country such as Dominica. To also up through educators and senior citizens on what life is like in Dominica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. I just want to go back to the one question about do you feel like you were able to promote a better understanding of Americans while you were there? Do you feel like people in your village really got to know you? Do you think they saw who you are as a person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.255257569939612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So talking about, you know, I've had the opportunity, one, to write and publish a children's book so I can talk with elementary school kids about what the experience is for children with disabilities in a country such as Dominica. To also up through educators and senior citizens on what life is like in Dominica."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. I just want to go back to the one question about do you feel like you were able to promote a better understanding of Americans while you were there? Do you feel like people in your village really got to know you? Do you think they saw who you are as a person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, I think so, on a few different levels. You know, I think one thing that comes to mind right away is the during the summer when I was there, a woman stopped me at the local little village store, kind of like a general, like an old fashioned western general store, I think, is how it could be characterized. And she mentioned how she had a few missionaries at her church, which was not the church that I attended in the village. And she mentioned how a few missionaries, one was from, I think, somewhere on the East Coast of the U.S. and one was from California, and she asked me if I knew them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just explaining, you know, like the size of the United States was something that I think always, always came up. And things like that or when, because there was American television, sometimes it was explaining."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not reality."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.283619522155124, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yes, I think so, on a few different levels. You know, I think one thing that comes to mind right away is the during the summer when I was there, a woman stopped me at the local little village store, kind of like a general, like an old fashioned western general store, I think, is how it could be characterized. And she mentioned how she had a few missionaries at her church, which was not the church that I attended in the village. And she mentioned how a few missionaries, one was from, I think, somewhere on the East Coast of the U.S. and one was from California, and she asked me if I knew them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And just explaining, you know, like the size of the United States was something that I think always, always came up. And things like that or when, because there was American television, sometimes it was explaining."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's not reality."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So yeah, sometimes it was really explaining what they saw. Like, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, like, what do you mean by that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.992122866858178, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So yeah, sometimes it was really explaining what they saw. Like, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, like, what do you mean by that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So one instance in particular was the, which, you know, comes from Australia, but the Crocodile Hunter, Steve Irwin, would have a show where he would look at, you know, it's a very informative educational show where you look at different wildlife and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he also did a movie where I think it was like poachers. He was trying to catch some poachers and they were coming after him and shooting him and that sort of thing. So it was like a live action movie. So one was an educational show and one was like a live action movie and actually having a conversation that one of them was scripted and one of them was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. They wouldn't have known that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.99124762984242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So one instance in particular was the, which, you know, comes from Australia, but the Crocodile Hunter, Steve Irwin, would have a show where he would look at, you know, it's a very informative educational show where you look at different wildlife and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then he also did a movie where I think it was like poachers. He was trying to catch some poachers and they were coming after him and shooting him and that sort of thing. So it was like a live action movie. So one was an educational show and one was like a live action movie and actually having a conversation that one of them was scripted and one of them was not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. They wouldn't have known that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so in that particular conversation, no. And so it was just different. Different things would come up on American television that I would get asked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any stereotypes that you noticed about Americans down there? Do you feel like that impacted you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.865737814620271, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so in that particular conversation, no. And so it was just different. Different things would come up on American television that I would get asked about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any stereotypes that you noticed about Americans down there? Do you feel like that impacted you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, for sure. Because even though Dominica doesn't have a lot of cruise ships, there were kind of weekly a cruise ship would come in. And so on those days, one, I would avoid going to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also tourists on the cruise ships typically dressed in a very stereotypical way of cargo shorts and a flowered shirt, and they have a camera around their neck. And as Peace Corps volunteers and most men in Dominica, it's common to wear long trousers even though it's hot. And so I'd almost always wear long trousers unless I was at the beach or hiking and but occasionally still I would be stopped and someone would just yell out \"tourist\" at me and kind of expect me to turn around and answer. And so even within the village, it took a while for everyone to understand that I wasn't a tourist, that I was just kind of there to stay for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like gender played a role at all, do you think? Were there certain gender stereotypes and also? Yeah. And differences in roles? And then also, I mean, like for, I guess, for female Peace Corps volunteers, do you think it was the same thing where you just was, oh, they're going to be seen as a tourist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.961930905133634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, for sure. Because even though Dominica doesn't have a lot of cruise ships, there were kind of weekly a cruise ship would come in. And so on those days, one, I would avoid going to the capital."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also tourists on the cruise ships typically dressed in a very stereotypical way of cargo shorts and a flowered shirt, and they have a camera around their neck. And as Peace Corps volunteers and most men in Dominica, it's common to wear long trousers even though it's hot. And so I'd almost always wear long trousers unless I was at the beach or hiking and but occasionally still I would be stopped and someone would just yell out \"tourist\" at me and kind of expect me to turn around and answer. And so even within the village, it took a while for everyone to understand that I wasn't a tourist, that I was just kind of there to stay for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like gender played a role at all, do you think? Were there certain gender stereotypes and also? Yeah. And differences in roles? And then also, I mean, like for, I guess, for female Peace Corps volunteers, do you think it was the same thing where you just was, oh, they're going to be seen as a tourist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So, yeah, for the women, it was the same, the kind of the view of being a tourist, but also the women Peace Corps volunteers got harassed by the men, much more so than men got harassed by the women. And so in fact, I can only think, well, no, I can think of maybe half a dozen times where it's kind of common to go psst psst to someone like on the street. And so occasionally women would psst psst to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.17992322792626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But also tourists on the cruise ships typically dressed in a very stereotypical way of cargo shorts and a flowered shirt, and they have a camera around their neck. And as Peace Corps volunteers and most men in Dominica, it's common to wear long trousers even though it's hot. And so I'd almost always wear long trousers unless I was at the beach or hiking and but occasionally still I would be stopped and someone would just yell out \"tourist\" at me and kind of expect me to turn around and answer. And so even within the village, it took a while for everyone to understand that I wasn't a tourist, that I was just kind of there to stay for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you feel like gender played a role at all, do you think? Were there certain gender stereotypes and also? Yeah. And differences in roles? And then also, I mean, like for, I guess, for female Peace Corps volunteers, do you think it was the same thing where you just was, oh, they're going to be seen as a tourist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So, yeah, for the women, it was the same, the kind of the view of being a tourist, but also the women Peace Corps volunteers got harassed by the men, much more so than men got harassed by the women. And so in fact, I can only think, well, no, I can think of maybe half a dozen times where it's kind of common to go psst psst to someone like on the street. And so occasionally women would psst psst to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would the women do that to other men, like other people from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.422136919918065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So, yeah, for the women, it was the same, the kind of the view of being a tourist, but also the women Peace Corps volunteers got harassed by the men, much more so than men got harassed by the women. And so in fact, I can only think, well, no, I can think of maybe half a dozen times where it's kind of common to go psst psst to someone like on the street. And so occasionally women would psst psst to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would the women do that to other men, like other people from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they would do it to Dominican men. Um, but I do know among like the Peace Corps women, it was pretty common to have Dominican men psst psst to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting, though, that the women would do it to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.802374355464517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would the women do that to other men, like other people from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they would do it to Dominican men. Um, but I do know among like the Peace Corps women, it was pretty common to have Dominican men psst psst to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting, though, that the women would do it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. Um, let's see. I guess kind of moving on again. You talked a lot about just all that you've done. Do you have any regrets? Do you have any feelings of like failure from your time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.335971506071685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think they would do it to Dominican men. Um, but I do know among like the Peace Corps women, it was pretty common to have Dominican men psst psst to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting, though, that the women would do it to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. Um, let's see. I guess kind of moving on again. You talked a lot about just all that you've done. Do you have any regrets? Do you have any feelings of like failure from your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know, any like a failure. I mean, it had a lot of frustrating moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.817746117857427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh huh. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, cool. Um, let's see. I guess kind of moving on again. You talked a lot about just all that you've done. Do you have any regrets? Do you have any feelings of like failure from your time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I don't know, any like a failure. I mean, it had a lot of frustrating moments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, where I felt like, you know, it just wasn't making a difference whatsoever. You know, it goes back to really not have any expectations laid out on what the village council wanted done. Or if a meeting starts at six o'clock, it might be 7:30 before it actually really gets going. So it was a lot of waiting around at different times, which would just be frustrating, you know, for me. I think failures, not necessarily just disappointments from time to time. Yeah, I think that definitely happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what kind of disappointments?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.824377923280773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, where I felt like, you know, it just wasn't making a difference whatsoever. You know, it goes back to really not have any expectations laid out on what the village council wanted done. Or if a meeting starts at six o'clock, it might be 7:30 before it actually really gets going. So it was a lot of waiting around at different times, which would just be frustrating, you know, for me. I think failures, not necessarily just disappointments from time to time. Yeah, I think that definitely happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like what kind of disappointments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Disappointments that things would just not happen with the speed that I think they could have happened, or that, you know, trying to get different people to speak to each other. And so I know one of the village projects was to build a bus stop. And so we agreed that we would meet on Friday evening and we would all bend the rebar that would be used in this. So it's a concrete structure. And so we would all meet at this certain time and bend it. We were going to use someone's shop. He had agreed that we could use his shop. And so when the time came, I was the only person that showed up, and the guy that had the shop showed me how to do that. And no one else showed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I bent the rebar myself for a bus stop that, and it was actually a bus stop I didn't even use because it was on the other. It was on the other end of the village, not close to my house. But it was just kind of frustrating, you know, like it would be anywhere where folks agree to to meet and work on a project and then not show up to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. I mean, one of the things you mentioned, you were just in the Peace Corps for a year. What happened? Why did you leave early?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.979660815181316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so they were right. I still have occasional ear pain to this day. And so I had, you know, I talked to my associate Peace Corps director. I said, well, it's not getting any worse. And you know, it's not getting better. It's not getting worse. And so at least instead of like putting me on the next plane to leave Dominica, at least I got a few more days in there and was able to really hang out with the other Peace Corps volunteers and my village threw like a celebration for me and that sort of thing. So at least I was able to do some things. You know, there was a lot of projects that were kind of up in the air that I tried my best to wrap them up and that sort of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there another volunteer who came and helped start it up, kind of took your place?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so there was another volunteer that came probably with less than a year after I left, another volunteer came to be in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and did they pick up any of the projects you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. It's relative."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.755178683534796, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, so there was another volunteer that came probably with less than a year after I left, another volunteer came to be in the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, and did they pick up any of the projects you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. It's relative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did, somewhat. And uh, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then did they ever figure out what was going on with your ear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.616865203927551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. It's relative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did, somewhat. And uh, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then did they ever figure out what was going on with your ear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, yes, it was something that we're able to treat. Like I said, I still have occasional pain, but I know how to treat it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any other health issues while you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.574294671030612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They probably did, somewhat. And uh, but yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then did they ever figure out what was going on with your ear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the most part, yes, it was something that we're able to treat. Like I said, I still have occasional pain, but I know how to treat it now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any other health issues while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Thankfully, you know, I was pretty healthy throughout my time there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then leaving, I just, I guess you, I definitely want to get back to that nonprofit you started. But when you came back, what did you miss most? How was it coming back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.761721085090002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So I like to plan. And so I'd always had this thought that towards the end of my two years in the Peace Corps, you know, I would start sending out resumes and put a plan together and everything. And in just such a short amount of time, I went from being in Peace Corps to not being in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so of course, the number one thing when I returned back was that I wanted to make sure that that I was able to take care of the ear pain and everything. And so, um. So that was a real, um, kind of a struggle coming back. And I'd built so many friendships with folks in the village as well as other Peace Corps volunteers and just not being there. So that was really a struggle. And then I think a lot of what a lot of Peace Corps volunteers have is the frustration of trying to make sure your story gets heard, but finding people that will listen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think that was also something that was just kind of a challenge, folks that really wanted to hear about Peace Corps. But I was also kind of heartbroken in a lot of ways because I left there, you know, with such short notice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, almost immediately you really wanted your story to be told. I mean, what is it you wanted people to hear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.735245650100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so of course, the number one thing when I returned back was that I wanted to make sure that that I was able to take care of the ear pain and everything. And so, um. So that was a real, um, kind of a struggle coming back. And I'd built so many friendships with folks in the village as well as other Peace Corps volunteers and just not being there. So that was really a struggle. And then I think a lot of what a lot of Peace Corps volunteers have is the frustration of trying to make sure your story gets heard, but finding people that will listen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think that was also something that was just kind of a challenge, folks that really wanted to hear about Peace Corps. But I was also kind of heartbroken in a lot of ways because I left there, you know, with such short notice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, almost immediately you really wanted your story to be told. I mean, what is it you wanted people to hear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I really just wanted folks to know about Dominica and really what life was like there. And you know, what I've been up to for a year. And I think that was the biggest, the biggest thing. But then also more and more and also talking with another RPCV that I'd worked with, was thinking about the kids that came to Special Olympics at the botanical gardens on Saturdays. How many of them didn't go to school throughout the rest of the week, like other kids, and they didn't go because they had a disability. And so that was really what led us to think about, well, let's start a nonprofit that works with providing education for children with disabilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no opportunity for these kids to go to school? There's no education, like special ed education there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.594717389000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I think that was also something that was just kind of a challenge, folks that really wanted to hear about Peace Corps. But I was also kind of heartbroken in a lot of ways because I left there, you know, with such short notice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I mean, almost immediately you really wanted your story to be told. I mean, what is it you wanted people to hear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I really just wanted folks to know about Dominica and really what life was like there. And you know, what I've been up to for a year. And I think that was the biggest, the biggest thing. But then also more and more and also talking with another RPCV that I'd worked with, was thinking about the kids that came to Special Olympics at the botanical gardens on Saturdays. How many of them didn't go to school throughout the rest of the week, like other kids, and they didn't go because they had a disability. And so that was really what led us to think about, well, let's start a nonprofit that works with providing education for children with disabilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there was no opportunity for these kids to go to school? There's no education, like special ed education there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So special ed is extremely limited. And so there was a small school for children with mental disabilities. But many other services that, like you would find, such as in the U.S., as far as special education, were just nonexistent. And so we decided that we would, and that was actually probably about five months after I returned or so, that we would do that. And about a year after that or less, we'd formally, you know, became a 501(c)(3) and incorporated. And we're already working in Dominica with different NGOs to address education for children with disabilities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And what kind of stuff have you done since then? And the nonprofit still exists?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.1875410000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the nonprofit still exists. \"Ready, Willing...Enable!\" is still going. E-N-A-B-L-E. And with Ready, Willing...Enable!, we've done a summer camp pretty much every year since 2007. And it's become more and more sustainable. Each year some of our first campers become older and take on leadership duties of the camp, as well as parents and just other people came on board. And so it's not nearly as hands-on as it was in 2007. It's become more and more sustainable where we approached it with kind of a model coach fade approach. And so we modeled it for a few years and then coached leaders for a few years and then faded. So the summer camp still exists. We don't go to summer camp anymore because it's going fine without us being present and doing that.\n\nBut also side projects such as making sure the wheelchair accessible van in the country is able to take, you know, pick up kids and take to the one school for children with intellectual disabilities. And so partnering with them, partnering with Special Olympics, kind of where it all started, and many, many other projects that we've been able to do since we started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With that, I mean, what do you think some of your biggest accomplishments are?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So some of our former campers have, you know, completed secondary school and are at university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them have found full time employment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, if they're special needs or special education, were they able, I mean, do they go through school? Or I mean, are they able to take some classes there and go to a normal school? Or how were they able to get all the way to college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.31949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. So some of our former campers have, you know, completed secondary school and are at university."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them have found full time employment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, if they're special needs or special education, were they able, I mean, do they go through school? Or I mean, are they able to take some classes there and go to a normal school? Or how were they able to get all the way to college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so, you know, working with our NGO partners on advocacy and making sure they do have the opportunity for secondary school. And sure, they're allowed to take the test, you know, maybe, you know. For instance, one student, it was his first, his ability to take the common entrance exam for students to take it in Braille. You know, so just making sure they have the opportunities and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. So I mean, I asked you before about making an impact or having an impact on individuals, but it seems like with this nonprofit, you've definitely had an impact on individuals, and it seems like you can even tell stories about individuals lives you've changed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And so, you know, working with our NGO partners on advocacy and making sure they do have the opportunity for secondary school. And sure, they're allowed to take the test, you know, maybe, you know. For instance, one student, it was his first, his ability to take the common entrance exam for students to take it in Braille. You know, so just making sure they have the opportunities and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cool. So I mean, I asked you before about making an impact or having an impact on individuals, but it seems like with this nonprofit, you've definitely had an impact on individuals, and it seems like you can even tell stories about individuals lives you've changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that was that work started as Peace Corps volunteers, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It continues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And the nonprofit is Ready, Willing...Enable!"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that was that work started as Peace Corps volunteers, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It continues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And the nonprofit is Ready, Willing...Enable!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So I think we're going to kind of wrap up. Is there anything else you want to share with us? I mean, I'm going to ask, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It continues."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And the nonprofit is Ready, Willing...Enable!"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So I think we're going to kind of wrap up. Is there anything else you want to share with us? I mean, I'm going to ask, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just that, you know, even though my Peace Corps experience, it didn't turn out the way that I thought it would. You know, I wasn't feeding like a long line of orphans every day, and I wasn't, you know, I didn't have the ability to stay the whole two years. And um, and that sort of thing. Still, I wouldn't change anything because I think it really helped develop me into who I am. And I think the nonprofit that I started with another RPCV would not have happened if things hadn't gone the way they did. And so I think it was definitely an experience that I wouldn't change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What advice or what is there anything you want to share about the Peace Corps with someone who might be interested in applying or just someone who's interested in learning more?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So I think we're going to kind of wrap up. Is there anything else you want to share with us? I mean, I'm going to ask, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just that, you know, even though my Peace Corps experience, it didn't turn out the way that I thought it would. You know, I wasn't feeding like a long line of orphans every day, and I wasn't, you know, I didn't have the ability to stay the whole two years. And um, and that sort of thing. Still, I wouldn't change anything because I think it really helped develop me into who I am. And I think the nonprofit that I started with another RPCV would not have happened if things hadn't gone the way they did. And so I think it was definitely an experience that I wouldn't change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What advice or what is there anything you want to share about the Peace Corps with someone who might be interested in applying or just someone who's interested in learning more?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, I would say definitely to go for it. You know, really look into it. Do some research, dig deep within yourself and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that, dig deep within yourself?\n\nYou know, think about like your own comfort level and how big or small your comfort zone is and how tight you want to hold on to that. I think so much of the Peace Corps was outside of the comfort zone a little bit. It was a little bit more into the risk zone and thinking about the unknown. But I think that's when the greatest amount of learning happens for a person is when you step outside of your comfort zone.\n\nHow did you step outside your comfort zone?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah, I would say definitely to go for it. You know, really look into it. Do some research, dig deep within yourself and, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you mean by that, dig deep within yourself?\n\nYou know, think about like your own comfort level and how big or small your comfort zone is and how tight you want to hold on to that. I think so much of the Peace Corps was outside of the comfort zone a little bit. It was a little bit more into the risk zone and thinking about the unknown. But I think that's when the greatest amount of learning happens for a person is when you step outside of your comfort zone.\n\nHow did you step outside your comfort zone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I think so much of my comfort zone was, you know, just living so much of what we think of as kind of the standard, the standard American life, you know, like work and school and gym and shopping and whatnot. Whereas the Peace Corps really just changed things a lot, where time, uh, time has a different meaning, you know. You're not as rushed and you have to really think about, um. You have to really think about what success looks like. Just so much of how you define your day to day changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one of the things I picked up on this interview is that you like things planned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do like things planned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that kind of how you stepped outside of your comfort zone? When the meetings didn't start exactly when you wanted, stuff like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so I think so much of my comfort zone was, you know, just living so much of what we think of as kind of the standard, the standard American life, you know, like work and school and gym and shopping and whatnot. Whereas the Peace Corps really just changed things a lot, where time, uh, time has a different meaning, you know. You're not as rushed and you have to really think about, um. You have to really think about what success looks like. Just so much of how you define your day to day changes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one of the things I picked up on this interview is that you like things planned."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do like things planned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that kind of how you stepped outside of your comfort zone? When the meetings didn't start exactly when you wanted, stuff like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally, totally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then I mean, how do you think it's changed you? Do you think you are the same person? I don't think you are."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I do like things planned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So is that kind of how you stepped outside of your comfort zone? When the meetings didn't start exactly when you wanted, stuff like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Totally, totally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And then I mean, how do you think it's changed you? Do you think you are the same person? I don't think you are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, right, no, I'm definitely not the same person. I think it's allowed me to really pause and think about just different, different ways of going about things that I wouldn't have thought before. I think before, definitely a lot more linear step A, B and C, but now it's a much more crooked roundabout way sometimes to get from one point to another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00105:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I mean, right, no, I'm definitely not the same person. I think it's allowed me to really pause and think about just different, different ways of going about things that I wouldn't have thought before. I think before, definitely a lot more linear step A, B and C, but now it's a much more crooked roundabout way sometimes to get from one point to another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I think patience is the one thing that I may have learned more than any other lesson in the Peace Corps, and the amount of different perspectives. So, a specific example. Probably not. One's not necessarily coming to me right now, because it probably happens all the time, where I believe I'm just a lot more, have a lot more patience than I used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. All right. Do you want to end it on that note or anything else?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 38.99105852793919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right now I'm 66 years old. I live in Port Washington, Wisconsin. I've lived there since 1976. I am retired and worked for state government for 29 years. Currently, I do volunteer work at River Edge Nature Center one day a week and also Harrington Beach State Park. Do a lot of reading. I do a lot of vegetable and flower gardening."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And now can you kind of think back to the year before you joined the Peace Corps and tell us about life then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was 1963. I was a junior at St. Norbert College in Wisconsin, and I had always thought about this kind of work. I remember when I was a young, young boy reading about Dr. Schweitzer in National Geographic magazine, and I had always wanted to do something like that. Life was a lot simpler back then. We used to hitchhike home from college. We used to hitchhike from home to college. Today, you don't see any more hitchhikers on the road at all. It was pre-Vietnam, my, November of my junior year 1963 is when they assassinated John Kennedy, and I can still remember exactly where I was when I heard that it had happened. And I was watching TV on Sunday morning when they shot Lee Harvey Oswald live on TV. So it was very interesting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let's see. I guess the, you know, the most. You kind of mentioned this, but why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wanted to see the world and help humanity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you hear about it and what made you decide to apply?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.54562058659909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was 1963. I was a junior at St. Norbert College in Wisconsin, and I had always thought about this kind of work. I remember when I was a young, young boy reading about Dr. Schweitzer in National Geographic magazine, and I had always wanted to do something like that. Life was a lot simpler back then. We used to hitchhike home from college. We used to hitchhike from home to college. Today, you don't see any more hitchhikers on the road at all. It was pre-Vietnam, my, November of my junior year 1963 is when they assassinated John Kennedy, and I can still remember exactly where I was when I heard that it had happened. And I was watching TV on Sunday morning when they shot Lee Harvey Oswald live on TV. So it was very interesting times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Let's see. I guess the, you know, the most. You kind of mentioned this, but why did you join the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wanted to see the world and help humanity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you hear about it and what made you decide to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember the first time I heard about it. I remember when it was initiated in I believe March of 1961, because Henry Reuss, who was from the Milwaukee area in the House of Reps, was one of the men behind it. Uh, so it was always kind of in the news and I knew it was there and I probably saw something on campus because they did give an exam at St. Norbert College sometime my junior year, I believe. It was a written exam. I don't know how long it lasted, maybe an hour or two. And that was the first step of seeing if I was going to make it as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any specific country or project in mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.161800651776765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just wanted to see the world and help humanity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. How did you hear about it and what made you decide to apply?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember the first time I heard about it. I remember when it was initiated in I believe March of 1961, because Henry Reuss, who was from the Milwaukee area in the House of Reps, was one of the men behind it. Uh, so it was always kind of in the news and I knew it was there and I probably saw something on campus because they did give an exam at St. Norbert College sometime my junior year, I believe. It was a written exam. I don't know how long it lasted, maybe an hour or two. And that was the first step of seeing if I was going to make it as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any specific country or project in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. I had, uh, a year of French my junior year in college, so I thought they would send me somewhere where I could use my French. But no, they decided to send me somewhere where I'd have to use Spanish, which I had never had before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds typical. What were your friends' and family's reaction when you were accepted? You know, was there any hesitation or reservations either on your part or their part?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 40.179778501974184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can't remember the first time I heard about it. I remember when it was initiated in I believe March of 1961, because Henry Reuss, who was from the Milwaukee area in the House of Reps, was one of the men behind it. Uh, so it was always kind of in the news and I knew it was there and I probably saw something on campus because they did give an exam at St. Norbert College sometime my junior year, I believe. It was a written exam. I don't know how long it lasted, maybe an hour or two. And that was the first step of seeing if I was going to make it as a volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any specific country or project in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really, no. I had, uh, a year of French my junior year in college, so I thought they would send me somewhere where I could use my French. But no, they decided to send me somewhere where I'd have to use Spanish, which I had never had before."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds typical. What were your friends' and family's reaction when you were accepted? You know, was there any hesitation or reservations either on your part or their part?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "None that I can remember. I think my dad was always, or something like that, he was always for looking at the rest of the world. And I don't remember anything from anybody saying that I really shouldn't do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What project were you invited to join?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.056916293204246, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the selection process was that we knew approximately halfway through that we would have a deselection, which I guess they don't have anymore. Uh, that you were always being evaluated and halfway through that they may decide that you weren't the one they were looking for and you would get sent home, and the same thing would happen at the end of training. So right before that first deselection, you were always very, very worried as to whether or not you would make the grade. And also at the very end also. I can't remember how many were deselected halfway through. I think we started out with about 50 volunteers. We might have lost five or six halfway through and then lost another five or six at the very end.\n\nBut as far as the 50 individuals, they were from all over the U.S., mainly young, between 22 and 25. We did have a married husband and wife that were 65 from California. I'm 67 now. And boy, when we met them, 65, we thought they were really old people. We also had, we actually had three married couples. Of those 50 volunteers, they were from all over the U.S. Gosh, the one striking thing was there were very few Southerners. In fact, I think there are only one or two. And they, uh, the trainers were mentioning that at that time they got very few Southerners signing up to be volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the training prepared you and was it useful to your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. Uh, very stressful not knowing, you know, how they were looking at you and what they were really looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it was a lot more psychological."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.72990699244916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you feel that the training prepared you and was it useful to your Peace Corps service?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. Uh, very stressful not knowing, you know, how they were looking at you and what they were really looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it was a lot more psychological."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of psychological stuff, yeah. Mind games, seeing how you worked with one another. We didn't know that, of course, but it was interesting. But I think by and large, the, even the physical training was psychological more than anything else. They wanted to see how you reacted to working on rock faces with ropes and, you know, swimming with your legs tied up and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we had a heavy psychological component and I guess the ones that were suspect, they'd actually bring in a psychiatrist to talk to them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 40.811007769387956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was. Uh, very stressful not knowing, you know, how they were looking at you and what they were really looking for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it was a lot more psychological."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a lot of psychological stuff, yeah. Mind games, seeing how you worked with one another. We didn't know that, of course, but it was interesting. But I think by and large, the, even the physical training was psychological more than anything else. They wanted to see how you reacted to working on rock faces with ropes and, you know, swimming with your legs tied up and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, we had a heavy psychological component and I guess the ones that were suspect, they'd actually bring in a psychiatrist to talk to them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was, it's not like that now, I guess. Uh, talk about your initial entry into and reaction to the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.586660218545887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me and her went to Honduras. Two went to Belize. And I can't remember where the other two might have gone. Maybe there were only four of us. I can't remember. But that's how it ended up. We went down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there were only two of you going to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Can you describe the project, the Peace Corps staff, and the impression of the local people? Physical environment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, since I didn't know anything about Honduras, they sent me and Donna on flying around the country for a week. We got a grand tour of Honduras. And on the way home from the northern area of Honduras, we drove south on the national highway to Tegucigalpa. And one morning we stopped for breakfast and I didn't feel like eating and I was half asleep out in the bus, you know, waiting. And I said, boy, this is a nice little village. And it happened to be that's where I ended up being stationed. You know, coincidence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by coincidence?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.429622465050986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. Can you describe the project, the Peace Corps staff, and the impression of the local people? Physical environment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, since I didn't know anything about Honduras, they sent me and Donna on flying around the country for a week. We got a grand tour of Honduras. And on the way home from the northern area of Honduras, we drove south on the national highway to Tegucigalpa. And one morning we stopped for breakfast and I didn't feel like eating and I was half asleep out in the bus, you know, waiting. And I said, boy, this is a nice little village. And it happened to be that's where I ended up being stationed. You know, coincidence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by coincidence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By coincidence, yeah. It had a nice. They really didn't, uh, have a set project for me. So I went and visited a volunteer that was up. I ended up in Taulabé which was on the main road between Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula. And they sent me to, uh, live with a volunteer called Jim Mack from New York, who was up the road about a half hour north of there. And he knew a little bit about Taulabé. So him and I kind of went down there together, looked around, met some of the local residents, and then eventually I moved there on my own. I was kind of sent in without any specific project. In those days, rural community development meant going into a small village or situation and trying to find out what the residents wanted to do and then move on from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it sounds like what we."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.588469405612205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first arrived, since I didn't know anything about Honduras, they sent me and Donna on flying around the country for a week. We got a grand tour of Honduras. And on the way home from the northern area of Honduras, we drove south on the national highway to Tegucigalpa. And one morning we stopped for breakfast and I didn't feel like eating and I was half asleep out in the bus, you know, waiting. And I said, boy, this is a nice little village. And it happened to be that's where I ended up being stationed. You know, coincidence."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just by coincidence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By coincidence, yeah. It had a nice. They really didn't, uh, have a set project for me. So I went and visited a volunteer that was up. I ended up in Taulabé which was on the main road between Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula. And they sent me to, uh, live with a volunteer called Jim Mack from New York, who was up the road about a half hour north of there. And he knew a little bit about Taulabé. So him and I kind of went down there together, looked around, met some of the local residents, and then eventually I moved there on my own. I was kind of sent in without any specific project. In those days, rural community development meant going into a small village or situation and trying to find out what the residents wanted to do and then move on from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it sounds like what we."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't really have any set."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 35.09829933956912, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By coincidence, yeah. It had a nice. They really didn't, uh, have a set project for me. So I went and visited a volunteer that was up. I ended up in Taulabé which was on the main road between Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula. And they sent me to, uh, live with a volunteer called Jim Mack from New York, who was up the road about a half hour north of there. And he knew a little bit about Taulabé. So him and I kind of went down there together, looked around, met some of the local residents, and then eventually I moved there on my own. I was kind of sent in without any specific project. In those days, rural community development meant going into a small village or situation and trying to find out what the residents wanted to do and then move on from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it sounds like what we."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't really have any set."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the living conditions, a typical day, and relations with the people of the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.109221488410128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We didn't really have any set."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe the living conditions, a typical day, and relations with the people of the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I eventually found a small house, one large room to rent. It was just one large adobe room. And I rented that. I ended up working with a United Nations seed and fertilizer project. Jim Mack had been working with that so. And I had grown up on a small farm north of Milwaukee, so I knew a little bit about raising things.\n\nSo we would go out and work with small subsistence farmers we had, mainly raising corn. It was a new variety of corn from the Rockefeller Farm in Mexico. They had developed this, I believe his name was Norman Borlaug, who won the Nobel for his work there in the Green Revolution in the 1960s, developing new strains of wheat, rice, corn, and I don't know if it was sorghum. So we were using that strain with fertilizers and then we would go out and set up a demonstration area which measured 10 yards by 30 yards. And we used different seeds and different fertilizer blends in that area to show the farmers how this might work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about some individuals that you encountered? You know, stories about, you know, individuals that you remember especially? Either that or other PCVs or the staff."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.366647171688136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to work with them to gain trust initially as a foreigner from the U.S. because first of all, they didn't know if I was a CIA agent. And what had happened with Fidel, you know, in 1959 and the U.S. invasion in 1961. And no one else had helped those individuals. The idea of volunteer service in Honduras for Hondurans was virtually nonexistent. No one helped them, no one had ever helped them. They'd only helped to rob them. And you had to overcome this resistance as to, you know, who is this guy? What is he trying to do here? And it was initially very, very hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you lived by yourself then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lived alone. I was able to eat my meals at a local restaurant because we were on the main highway, which was about halfway between Tegucigalpa and San Pedro. So it was kind of an area where the busses stopped for meals. So luckily I didn't have to fix my own food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's a great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. I wouldn't have known what to do if I had to pick my own meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about relationships with the women there? Did you have any or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 33.78598416257795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It really was. I wouldn't have known what to do if I had to pick my own meals."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How about relationships with the women there? Did you have any or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all. I, you know, got along with the young ladies and certainly a lot of them were very attractive. But I was skeptical about making any romantic relationships because I didn't really know if they were really interested in me or they were interested in me as a way to get the United States. Have to be real honest about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was kind of unfortunate that I felt that way, but that's just the way it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Talking about like the end of your first year, what were some of the notable events? And looking back after a year? Joys and woes, unexpected events, relationships."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 24.206649069531046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, none at all. I, you know, got along with the young ladies and certainly a lot of them were very attractive. But I was skeptical about making any romantic relationships because I didn't really know if they were really interested in me or they were interested in me as a way to get the United States. Have to be real honest about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was kind of unfortunate that I felt that way, but that's just the way it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Okay. Talking about like the end of your first year, what were some of the notable events? And looking back after a year? Joys and woes, unexpected events, relationships."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually arrived on site in June of '65, and one big thing that I loved the most that first year was Christmas of '65. It's really unique in Latin nations how they celebrate Christmas. It was really neat. Everybody celebrated all night long. Every house was open and you just saw friends. You went in, you had something to eat. You had a drink. That was really, really special for me that very first year.\n\nUh, the first six months or so was really getting used to the heat and humidity. It was very, very hot there. Even though I was up 600 meters, it was hot during the day. At nights it was really nice. It was about 70, 75 at night. Rained a lot. But once I got used to the heat, that took me until about November, December, before I really got used to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Did you have any other health problems or what about vacation or travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.304045362868377, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vacation, we had 30 days a year and I decided I wanted to see Honduras. And since I didn't have any American friends that I went down there with, I kind of had to look around myself. I used my 30 days to just travel around Honduras. One of the main, one of the main areas I went to that first year was called the Bay Islands, which now is a mecca for U.S. tourists and scuba diving. Back then it was just local people. And we did have an older woman up there who was a volunteer on one of the islands. I had heard about her, I didn't know her, but I went up and saw her. And that was an interesting area because it was a mix of Black, white, and Indians, and they had a language that was a mixture of everything. And they told stories of Nazi submarines surfacing there in the Second World War for fresh fruits and vegetables, which I thought was very, very interesting. This was 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That's amazing. Let's see. So you traveled based, or strictly in Honduras."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Strictly in Honduras, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about, did you get together with other volunteers either on a, you know, for conferences or just informally or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had conferences in Tegucigalpa. We also had a training in co-ops that we got together as a large group. We had some training at the Pan American School for Agriculture in Zamorano, which was founded through the efforts of United Fruit Company back in the 19, late thirties or 1940s. A wonderful site. I got to know some of the local volunteers, but not really well because I'd only see them at these meetings which weren't held that often. So basically I was kind of there alone for, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of the opposite of mine. We started out with 100 in our trainee group and when we, they cut us back at, they deselected after one month and we lost 50 percent. So only 50 went, but there were, you know. Yeah, that's unusual."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.00449484763153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Strictly in Honduras, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about, did you get together with other volunteers either on a, you know, for conferences or just informally or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had conferences in Tegucigalpa. We also had a training in co-ops that we got together as a large group. We had some training at the Pan American School for Agriculture in Zamorano, which was founded through the efforts of United Fruit Company back in the 19, late thirties or 1940s. A wonderful site. I got to know some of the local volunteers, but not really well because I'd only see them at these meetings which weren't held that often. So basically I was kind of there alone for, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of the opposite of mine. We started out with 100 in our trainee group and when we, they cut us back at, they deselected after one month and we lost 50 percent. So only 50 went, but there were, you know. Yeah, that's unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was kind of a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To not have a group, you know."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.89388316403503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had conferences in Tegucigalpa. We also had a training in co-ops that we got together as a large group. We had some training at the Pan American School for Agriculture in Zamorano, which was founded through the efforts of United Fruit Company back in the 19, late thirties or 1940s. A wonderful site. I got to know some of the local volunteers, but not really well because I'd only see them at these meetings which weren't held that often. So basically I was kind of there alone for, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's kind of the opposite of mine. We started out with 100 in our trainee group and when we, they cut us back at, they deselected after one month and we lost 50 percent. So only 50 went, but there were, you know. Yeah, that's unusual."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was kind of a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To not have a group, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of a lonely thing while it was happening. I didn't really have anybody to visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you like go to the big cities every now and then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.548759071150037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was kind of a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To not have a group, you know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kind of a lonely thing while it was happening. I didn't really have anybody to visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Did you like go to the big cities every now and then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I would go into Teguc once every 4 to 6 weeks or so just to show up at the office we had there. And I went up to San Pedro Sula every three or four weeks. Uh, that was about it. And I can still remember one time I came back from Tegucigalpa and I forget what month it was. It was after I was there maybe a year, a little over a year, and we're on the mountain road. And I could see my small village down in the valley, and I said to myself, I'm home again. I really felt at home, you know, from then on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, now we're kind of winding down to the end of the tour. If there's anything that you want to talk about or express that you haven't, you can do that. But also kind of, uh, what was your sense of achievement versus failure? Pluses and minuses, regrets, satisfactions, plans for the future."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 20.722720234297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "True, true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you know, why, why mess with that? Okay. Now I want you to kind of think about evaluating your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps. First one is to provide technical assistance where requested. So elaborate on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I would give myself maybe a B-minus because of that resistance to a foreigner coming in. And who the heck are you and you're only, actually, I was only in site a. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I would say that's a B-minus because of the only having one year, nine months on site, and raising crops is a long term project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and the second goal is to provide better understanding of the U.S. How do you feel you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 15.247466926996665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I would give myself maybe a B-minus because of that resistance to a foreigner coming in. And who the heck are you and you're only, actually, I was only in site a. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Technical assistance."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I would say that's a B-minus because of the only having one year, nine months on site, and raising crops is a long term project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and the second goal is to provide better understanding of the U.S. How do you feel you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did a lot there because at night we would sit around. We didn't have TV, we didn't have electric. So you'd sit around in somebody's home and, you know, talk about international affairs, what was happening in the U.S. We were landing in Vietnam then, 1965, '66. Everyone that was able to save up had a radio, battery operated, and they all had shortwave on them. So they were listening to Radio Moscow, Radio Havana, Radio Netherlands, the BBC, the Voice of America. And the average citizen there, even though he might not know how to read and write, was very up on world affairs and knew what was happening. It was a shame to come home and see how American citizens were so ill informed about what was going on in the world. So I think that was very successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 7.71292213209465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I did a lot there because at night we would sit around. We didn't have TV, we didn't have electric. So you'd sit around in somebody's home and, you know, talk about international affairs, what was happening in the U.S. We were landing in Vietnam then, 1965, '66. Everyone that was able to save up had a radio, battery operated, and they all had shortwave on them. So they were listening to Radio Moscow, Radio Havana, Radio Netherlands, the BBC, the Voice of America. And the average citizen there, even though he might not know how to read and write, was very up on world affairs and knew what was happening. It was a shame to come home and see how American citizens were so ill informed about what was going on in the world. So I think that was very successful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, and the third goal is to promote better understanding of other peoples by Americans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ever since I've come home, I've tried to let everybody know, friends, neighbors, family, about what the rest of the world was like, and Honduras. After I returned home in 1967, I went back to Honduras for three months in 1968 to the same site. Went again in 1970, 1973, 1976, and then had a hiatus until February of this year, 2008, and went to see my old village again. And interestingly enough, the Catholic church of West Bend, which is about 20 miles from where I lived, is linked up with the Catholic church in Taulabé, where I had lived. And I'm associated with that group now. And we this year have 45 young men and women in Taulabé, Honduras, in scholarships to go to high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Of course, yeah, you kind of alluded to this, but have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service and contact with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you did early and then you came back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0143579245496106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ever since I've come home, I've tried to let everybody know, friends, neighbors, family, about what the rest of the world was like, and Honduras. After I returned home in 1967, I went back to Honduras for three months in 1968 to the same site. Went again in 1970, 1973, 1976, and then had a hiatus until February of this year, 2008, and went to see my old village again. And interestingly enough, the Catholic church of West Bend, which is about 20 miles from where I lived, is linked up with the Catholic church in Taulabé, where I had lived. And I'm associated with that group now. And we this year have 45 young men and women in Taulabé, Honduras, in scholarships to go to high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Of course, yeah, you kind of alluded to this, but have you continued any kind of involvement with your country of service and contact with the people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you did early and then you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it's still on ongoing. Hopefully I'll go back there this next winter or next summer. In fact, six individuals from Taulabé were up here middle of last month and a husband and wife stayed with us for six days. And I had known her in 1966. I knew him a little bit in 1967, just before I left. So we have a lot of things in, in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, and have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement since those days?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3492865828329004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you did early and then you came back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it's still on ongoing. Hopefully I'll go back there this next winter or next summer. In fact, six individuals from Taulabé were up here middle of last month and a husband and wife stayed with us for six days. And I had known her in 1966. I knew him a little bit in 1967, just before I left. So we have a lot of things in, in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, and have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement since those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a member of the group in Milwaukee. I'm not super active, but I make some of the meetings and some of the early events and know some of the returned volunteers here in the Milwaukee area. I think we have maybe about 30, 40 real active members. We should have more because there's a lot more returned volunteers in Milwaukee. But that's just the way life is, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And I guess you've, have you been involved in other third goal activities since you've been back, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.721429536481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it's still on ongoing. Hopefully I'll go back there this next winter or next summer. In fact, six individuals from Taulabé were up here middle of last month and a husband and wife stayed with us for six days. And I had known her in 1966. I knew him a little bit in 1967, just before I left. So we have a lot of things in, in common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, well, and have you had any continuing Peace Corps involvement since those days?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a member of the group in Milwaukee. I'm not super active, but I make some of the meetings and some of the early events and know some of the returned volunteers here in the Milwaukee area. I think we have maybe about 30, 40 real active members. We should have more because there's a lot more returned volunteers in Milwaukee. But that's just the way life is, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And I guess you've, have you been involved in other third goal activities since you've been back, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have went to various high schools and civic groups to show them photographs of Honduras and the work that we did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What do you feel your, uh, the effect on you of your Peace Corps service has been, either immediate at the time or in career plans or long term?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.02381059609, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm a member of the group in Milwaukee. I'm not super active, but I make some of the meetings and some of the early events and know some of the returned volunteers here in the Milwaukee area. I think we have maybe about 30, 40 real active members. We should have more because there's a lot more returned volunteers in Milwaukee. But that's just the way life is, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And I guess you've, have you been involved in other third goal activities since you've been back, you know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have went to various high schools and civic groups to show them photographs of Honduras and the work that we did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What do you feel your, uh, the effect on you of your Peace Corps service has been, either immediate at the time or in career plans or long term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long-term thing. I knew right then while I was living there that I, I liked the Latin way of life. And I think that it's made me slow down in my life here a little bit. That made me live a lot simpler here. It made me save a lot of money and live simply. And for that, I was able to retire early. My wife is from Nicaragua, which is right next to, right south of Honduras. So we have a lot of the same interests as far as the way of life and listening to Latin music and eating Latin foods here too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you meet her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.2486784401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I have went to various high schools and civic groups to show them photographs of Honduras and the work that we did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What do you feel your, uh, the effect on you of your Peace Corps service has been, either immediate at the time or in career plans or long term?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long-term thing. I knew right then while I was living there that I, I liked the Latin way of life. And I think that it's made me slow down in my life here a little bit. That made me live a lot simpler here. It made me save a lot of money and live simply. And for that, I was able to retire early. My wife is from Nicaragua, which is right next to, right south of Honduras. So we have a lot of the same interests as far as the way of life and listening to Latin music and eating Latin foods here too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where did you meet her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I met my wife in Milwaukee. She had, uh, had moved to the U.S. in July of 1960, so she was here even before I went to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I think that's pretty much it unless there's anything else you want, you know, you want to expound on or any little phrases or tips or words of advice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.43046721000000016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I met my wife in Milwaukee. She had, uh, had moved to the U.S. in July of 1960, so she was here even before I went to Honduras."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, I think that's pretty much it unless there's anything else you want, you know, you want to expound on or any little phrases or tips or words of advice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any words of advice to new volunteers, I would say keep a diary or some kind of a log. I did, but it wasn't elaborate enough. I look at it now and I kind of forgot a lot of things. I wish I was a little more detailed as far as writing things down so I could remember them 40 years later. So anybody that's doing it now, write down a lot of information, although sometimes it's not complimentary toward some of the citizens you're working with. So you want to make sure that you don't let anybody see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, I would say don't be super goal oriented when you first get there. Make a lot of friends. Find out how things operate in your site. After you're there a while, things will move along, but more slowly than here in the U.S. because here we're used to hopefully getting results quickly. There you're working against centuries and centuries of inertia, and that's just the way it is. And there's nothing wrong with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's true what you said about having a diary. I didn't have a diary, but I did write letters regularly and my parents kept those letters so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.47829690000000014, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any words of advice to new volunteers, I would say keep a diary or some kind of a log. I did, but it wasn't elaborate enough. I look at it now and I kind of forgot a lot of things. I wish I was a little more detailed as far as writing things down so I could remember them 40 years later. So anybody that's doing it now, write down a lot of information, although sometimes it's not complimentary toward some of the citizens you're working with. So you want to make sure that you don't let anybody see it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, I would say don't be super goal oriented when you first get there. Make a lot of friends. Find out how things operate in your site. After you're there a while, things will move along, but more slowly than here in the U.S. because here we're used to hopefully getting results quickly. There you're working against centuries and centuries of inertia, and that's just the way it is. And there's nothing wrong with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's true what you said about having a diary. I didn't have a diary, but I did write letters regularly and my parents kept those letters so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's one of my projects hopefully for the future, to get them all together, because I think it would be an interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5314410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Also, I would say don't be super goal oriented when you first get there. Make a lot of friends. Find out how things operate in your site. After you're there a while, things will move along, but more slowly than here in the U.S. because here we're used to hopefully getting results quickly. There you're working against centuries and centuries of inertia, and that's just the way it is. And there's nothing wrong with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think that's true what you said about having a diary. I didn't have a diary, but I did write letters regularly and my parents kept those letters so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's one of my projects hopefully for the future, to get them all together, because I think it would be an interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I've seen now, I've seen current volunteers having blogs on the internet. You've got to be very careful what you say on those blogs. I've looked at some of them and some things that they are saying, you know, again, isn't very complimentary toward the people they're living and working with. And you've got to be very careful about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you might not even realize it. I think a lot of people don't realize the effect that it has."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I've seen now, I've seen current volunteers having blogs on the internet. You've got to be very careful what you say on those blogs. I've looked at some of them and some things that they are saying, you know, again, isn't very complimentary toward the people they're living and working with. And you've got to be very careful about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you might not even realize it. I think a lot of people don't realize the effect that it has."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you have to be real careful what you're saying in these blogs today. So I would say be very, very neutral if you're going to do that and watch, you know, what you open yourself up to there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could be bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anything else or is that pretty much it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you have to be real careful what you're saying in these blogs today. So I would say be very, very neutral if you're going to do that and watch, you know, what you open yourself up to there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could be bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anything else or is that pretty much it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't think of anything else right now. This has been a lot of fun though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've really enjoyed this and get to know your experience a little bit better. And yeah, you're a real loner."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It could be bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Anything else or is that pretty much it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't think of anything else right now. This has been a lot of fun though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've really enjoyed this and get to know your experience a little bit better. And yeah, you're a real loner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That must have been tough, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can't think of anything else right now. This has been a lot of fun though."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've really enjoyed this and get to know your experience a little bit better. And yeah, you're a real loner."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That must have been tough, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I can, I mean, you could have possibly gone with, well, there were what, 30 that did go to the Dominican Republic? So you could have been one of those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. That must have been tough, I mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I can, I mean, you could have possibly gone with, well, there were what, 30 that did go to the Dominican Republic? So you could have been one of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I wasn't, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For any reason you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I can, I mean, you could have possibly gone with, well, there were what, 30 that did go to the Dominican Republic? So you could have been one of those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I wasn't, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For any reason you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you don't know, they, who knows why they thought I wouldn't fit in with the situation in the D.R. because of the U.S. invasion. God only knows. They never really gave you a good answer on that. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back to the, did, uh, like the FBI talk to friends and relatives?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I wasn't, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For any reason you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you don't know, they, who knows why they thought I wouldn't fit in with the situation in the D.R. because of the U.S. invasion. God only knows. They never really gave you a good answer on that. I have no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Getting back to the, did, uh, like the FBI talk to friends and relatives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Before I was selected, my neighbors told me that there was an agent that came around from the FBI asking what kind of guy I was, etcetera, etcetera. I guess they don't do that now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think they do."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00233:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Before I was selected, my neighbors told me that there was an agent that came around from the FBI asking what kind of guy I was, etcetera, etcetera. I guess they don't do that now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think they do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But all the neighbors, you know, let us know that was an FBI agent in the neighborhood asking about me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, they, like they did the same with me and, you know, like they interviewed my doctor and stuff like that. I don't know if people were more free with the information then or what. We both made it, so I guess you couldn't have been too bad. Okay. Well, thanks a lot, Joe, I appreciate it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.14494667862627, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been one of them. I've been there probably as long or longer than I should have. I've had others in my office also pitching in significantly. Kevin Engelbert's been there for a good part of it. Cal Seaman as well. A guy named Vince Witt is helping out on tools and hardware a lot recently. It's also a sort of growing and changing thing where people come and go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're still attached to the EVA project office, but you're just detailed to Phase 1, is that how it's working, a matrix, as they would say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, as an EVA guy you sort of work for everybody. So officially I work for XA in the EVA Project Office, but also support Phase 1 Office, support Phase Two-Three guys under [Randy] Brinkley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you kind of describe the differences in EVA techniques between the Russian Orlan suit and the U.S. EMU?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are many similarities and many differences. To boil it all down, the differences are there, but they're not really major. There's differences in mobility. There's differences in dexterity. There's differences in interfaces to the vehicle—umbilicals and other aspects. The Orlan has positive features over the EMU, and, vice versa, the EMU over the Orlan. They both sort of evolved around the vehicle and different requirements. Our suit evolved from Apollo; theirs evolved from a suit they were going to take to the moon. Their vehicle is designed so that you don't need a lot of tools. Most of their items that you do maintenance on are inside. They do a lot of work outside with science, with assembly of big things like solar arrays and propellant modules. They tend to not use foot restraints. That's one difference. I'm not sure whether that's because their design wasn't always as hot as it could have been, but they do a lot of what we call free-floating tasks where you hold on with one hand and working with the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do they handle high torque, or do they avoid that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.499552497128125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We threw good folks at it and a whole Tiger Team effort and pulled it off."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as we all know, it worked like a charm on orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked. We're going to try to bring it home and put it in a museum somewhere, probably beside the Sky Lab (tool)."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us a little bit about the NBL test that you did with the Orlan suit. I think you recently did a SAFER [Simplified Aid for EVA Rescue] test here at NBL or in hydro lab. I'm not sure which one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We've done a lot of Orlan-suit tests. We've got three Orlans here, one a DMA we've modified into an M. We've got an Orlan M full-up for the water tank as well. One 1G Orlan M. We've done tests with foot restraints and tethers, safer (the self-rescue device, the jet backpack) has been developed using these suits. We trained Linenger (before he flew) in the WET-F. We've done Space Station tests for CETA [Crew and Equipment Translation Aid] carts. For ….. comes to mind Shannon Lucid flew on there [Mir], came back, and has helped us with development tests with the Orlan. Most recently there were tests to certify and rate the Orlan M water tank suit for the NBL. We just received that late last year. They followed that up with engineering tests for refining the weigh-out system of the suit and looking at Orlan SAFER in terms of donning and doffing and operations, clearances, basic engineering, clarification of the design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I read in your EVA activity report that you were looking at—was it modifications to SAFER or the Orlan suit to make sure that they really did fit between the two? Can you talk a little bit about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.468896076500732, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The umbilical would probably run out through the hatch. It's got another interesting new feature, something our guys have talked about a little bit recently, is the moon roof on top. You can look up to a certain degree, if you tilt your head back, and you see different translation modes. So that's a function that we may consider adding some day.\\n\\n The suit's very maintainable. You can basically strip the guts out of it and start over, replace individual components in the backpack. So in terms of easy to resize, maintainable, easy to don quickly, get out, it's got a lot of the features that everybody wants. You take the best of the Orlan, the best of the EMU, and you've got a winner.\\n\\n We had actually started—one of the first efforts we did with the Russians was a common suit effort. We were going to merge the best of the two suits. For various reasons that stopped. We've proceeded down a path of selective commonality with foot restraints and tethers. The Russians have safety hooks. We've made it so that our NASA tether can also go on the suit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you releasing something before you pinch it there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You hit the release in the front and the rest goes. They use a dual safety tether protocol, the theory always you're two tethers hooked on, so if one fails, you're still hooked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they do a hand-over-hand type translation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hand over hand. Fortunately, while you're moving one, you've only got one attached, so that's kind of why we're all evolving toward the SAFER, adds extra redundancy and margin of safety."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked to Mr. Aleksandrov, he talked about one of the U.S. tethers that's been used. I guess it's the one that has the recoil on it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.632106751667479, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You hit the release in the front and the rest goes. They use a dual safety tether protocol, the theory always you're two tethers hooked on, so if one fails, you're still hooked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they do a hand-over-hand type translation?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, hand over hand. Fortunately, while you're moving one, you've only got one attached, so that's kind of why we're all evolving toward the SAFER, adds extra redundancy and margin of safety."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we talked to Mr. Aleksandrov, he talked about one of the U.S. tethers that's been used. I guess it's the one that has the recoil on it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's a 55-foot cable on a spring reel, feed out and retract. It works well for Shuttle, but even then it gets tangled every once in a while and you've got to be careful not to pull it out too far and attend to it. It's nice because you hook once and you never have to mess with it again. It stays clean. On station vehicles it's a little more challenging to do. But what we've done is we've tried to build in the option to do what makes sense for each task in each location tether-wise.\\n\\n We've done things as simple as patches. We put a Russian patch on the EMU for STS-86 when Titov went out with Scott Parazynski. Haven't got an EMU patch on the Orlan."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you show us again how it attaches?\n\nThe tether again?\n\nYou mentioned earlier that it somewhat attaches umbilical.\n\nThe umbilical? Is that what you're asking about?\n\nYes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.227317910000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in the pool there's an umbilical that's connected. Let's see. The umbilical comes into the backpack of the Orlan, so it's out of the way. They lift them into the water using the strap. They get essentially lowered in via crane. They get taken off the crane. They adjust weights that are on the suit for neutral buoyancy, as close as you can get. Divers take them over to the airlock, and from there it's all up to them.\\n\\n The EMU, pretty much the same. You've got a water tank umbilical. With our new NBL, really long cord, somebody tends it for you, simulates that it's not there on orbit. You're translating around on handrails. You're on the end of the robotic manipulator, interacting with it. You're doing the same work you do on orbit, and if you do it right, you don't notice the difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long are they in the pool?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can go up to, say, six hours, with a depth. You have to be careful with nitrogen washout, decompression sickness things, so we have a gas mixture at the NBL of enriched oxygen instead of lower nitrogen. The Russians tend to run three- to four-hour runs, but can run longer. We run some runs three, four. We've been doing more runs more recently up to six, to full-duration EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the average EVA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Average for the Russians, probably in recent history have been five and a half hours, but they've gone six, six and a half, a couple at seven. Ours are typically six, six and a half. It varies. We've gone beyond that if necessary—seven plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prepared you for your role to be able to work with the Russians to do this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.697019900000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can go up to, say, six hours, with a depth. You have to be careful with nitrogen washout, decompression sickness things, so we have a gas mixture at the NBL of enriched oxygen instead of lower nitrogen. The Russians tend to run three- to four-hour runs, but can run longer. We run some runs three, four. We've been doing more runs more recently up to six, to full-duration EVA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is the average EVA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Average for the Russians, probably in recent history have been five and a half hours, but they've gone six, six and a half, a couple at seven. Ours are typically six, six and a half. It varies. We've gone beyond that if necessary—seven plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prepared you for your role to be able to work with the Russians to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've worked EVA operations since 1982 through 1993, so, ten-plus years. I started out as an EMU person and learned all there was to know—not all, but I learned a good piece of it. Worked on console in the Control Center, front and back room. I did crew training, built procedures, sort of worked suit when we were flying it. I worked task operations, tried to hit all the highlights in it. I moved over to a different office in the project program office, so I had the technical background to take with me. It's made it a lot easier, because I don't have to worry so much about knowing the fundamentals. I can concentrate on the new stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said when you're in the suit, you hit the top. Do you get in it often to try things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.218911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Average for the Russians, probably in recent history have been five and a half hours, but they've gone six, six and a half, a couple at seven. Ours are typically six, six and a half. It varies. We've gone beyond that if necessary—seven plus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What prepared you for your role to be able to work with the Russians to do this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've worked EVA operations since 1982 through 1993, so, ten-plus years. I started out as an EMU person and learned all there was to know—not all, but I learned a good piece of it. Worked on console in the Control Center, front and back room. I did crew training, built procedures, sort of worked suit when we were flying it. I worked task operations, tried to hit all the highlights in it. I moved over to a different office in the project program office, so I had the technical background to take with me. It's made it a lot easier, because I don't have to worry so much about knowing the fundamentals. I can concentrate on the new stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said when you're in the suit, you hit the top. Do you get in it often to try things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me personally, my big hurrah with getting in the suits and doing tests was back in MOD. I've been in this thing once or twice. I don't have a lot of time anymore to get in the water tank; that's for other people to do nowadays. It does help to get in and get the experience, because you have more sympathy for the guys who've got to do work in it. So we help set up other people to do the tests, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's on the right arm?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.79879, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've worked EVA operations since 1982 through 1993, so, ten-plus years. I started out as an EMU person and learned all there was to know—not all, but I learned a good piece of it. Worked on console in the Control Center, front and back room. I did crew training, built procedures, sort of worked suit when we were flying it. I worked task operations, tried to hit all the highlights in it. I moved over to a different office in the project program office, so I had the technical background to take with me. It's made it a lot easier, because I don't have to worry so much about knowing the fundamentals. I can concentrate on the new stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said when you're in the suit, you hit the top. Do you get in it often to try things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me personally, my big hurrah with getting in the suits and doing tests was back in MOD. I've been in this thing once or twice. I don't have a lot of time anymore to get in the water tank; that's for other people to do nowadays. It does help to get in and get the experience, because you have more sympathy for the guys who've got to do work in it. So we help set up other people to do the tests, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's on the right arm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a little cue card of pressures and settings, time remaining versus oxygen bottle pressures, for example. It's basically a little cheat sheet for the crew, emergency checklist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is it worth?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4431, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Me personally, my big hurrah with getting in the suits and doing tests was back in MOD. I've been in this thing once or twice. I don't have a lot of time anymore to get in the water tank; that's for other people to do nowadays. It does help to get in and get the experience, because you have more sympathy for the guys who've got to do work in it. So we help set up other people to do the tests, essentially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What's on the right arm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a little cue card of pressures and settings, time remaining versus oxygen bottle pressures, for example. It's basically a little cheat sheet for the crew, emergency checklist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is it worth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn rubles or dollars? It's worth a lot.\n\nIt's almost priceless isn't it? I'm sure there's a fixed price for it, because somebody has to buy it. There are only a few in the world, so it's really not priceable."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a little cue card of pressures and settings, time remaining versus oxygen bottle pressures, for example. It's basically a little cheat sheet for the crew, emergency checklist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much is it worth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn rubles or dollars? It's worth a lot.\n\nIt's almost priceless isn't it? I'm sure there's a fixed price for it, because somebody has to buy it. There are only a few in the world, so it's really not priceable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're not easy to come by, and we keep this one over here in a controlled environment. The same guys that process the EMUs handle this thing so we know it's in good hands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a company over there like ILC that makes the ones here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00791:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.51, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn rubles or dollars? It's worth a lot.\n\nIt's almost priceless isn't it? I'm sure there's a fixed price for it, because somebody has to buy it. There are only a few in the world, so it's really not priceable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're not easy to come by, and we keep this one over here in a controlled environment. The same guys that process the EMUs handle this thing so we know it's in good hands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there a company over there like ILC that makes the ones here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ILC and Ham Standard up in Connecticut and Delaware do the EMUs for us. Zvezda in Moscow do these suits for EVA, they also do the space suits for launch and entry, Soyuz. They do quite a bit for their space program in general. We've got, like I said, a total of three of these in the States, and this is our one high-fidelity external unit that we don't put in the water. It's not a vacuum chamber unit. It's not flight, but in terms of what the crew interacts with, we can do a lot of training to supplement the water and testing more important. So for us it's pretty much invaluable because it saves a lot of travel. A lot of people can stay here and do work. We're about to deposit EMUs in Moscow in the water tank, so we each have resources at the other end to test and train on. We can't very well transport the vehicle back and forth between countries easily, so we bring the suits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about a tool caddie? I don't see a tool caddie on this one like you do on the EMU. Where do they carry their tools?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00767:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.59456305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I did the presentations to the guys in D.C. about the value in this, and once they approved it, then we were off and running."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Afterwards, and keeping your team together and moving back into launch days after Columbia—tell us about that, and again, the communication efforts or maybe anything different that you did to keep people in focus and looking toward the future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We do a lot of training on the Launch Team. For the first year or so after the accident, we didn’t train at all. Everybody was busy doing the recovery or the reconstruction or the paper trails, et cetera. About a year or so after the accident— we were a year and a half away from Discovery launching after Columbia—I started doing the Launch Team training again. We needed to do it. We needed to get our skills back, our sharpness back. So we trained a lot. We trained a lot in the control rooms and individually out at the work sites. We got everybody trained back up and felt really good about Return to Flight. As a Launch Team, we didn’t do anything special for the Return to Flight launch other than individually reflect on it, but there were no Launch Team celebrations or anything. There were a lot of celebrations with Return to Flight. But as far as the Launch Team goes, no. We were doing our business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back to business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to business, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that felt good, just being able to say that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00767:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 29.5495145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We do a lot of training on the Launch Team. For the first year or so after the accident, we didn’t train at all. Everybody was busy doing the recovery or the reconstruction or the paper trails, et cetera. About a year or so after the accident— we were a year and a half away from Discovery launching after Columbia—I started doing the Launch Team training again. We needed to do it. We needed to get our skills back, our sharpness back. So we trained a lot. We trained a lot in the control rooms and individually out at the work sites. We got everybody trained back up and felt really good about Return to Flight. As a Launch Team, we didn’t do anything special for the Return to Flight launch other than individually reflect on it, but there were no Launch Team celebrations or anything. There were a lot of celebrations with Return to Flight. But as far as the Launch Team goes, no. We were doing our business."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back to business?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Back to business, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that felt good, just being able to say that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It felt real good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, talking about training, and looking back on your 24 years for a moment, to look forward to the next years, what would you suggest on how best to train and equip the next group of Agency leaders? What are they going to need to know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.11645489433971, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. Nice to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. So we're just going to go ahead and get started. Could you tell me a little bit about what your life was like before joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Oceanside, California, and I was a marketing communications specialist for the Outdoor Channel. And if you don't know what the Outdoor Channel is, it's a cable TV channel devoted to hunting and fishing and things like that. And I was single and no kids. I was 34 and I was bored with my life and I was bored with making money for other people and doing the same thing every day. I did have a life outside of work. It mostly consisted of going down to San Diego to hear bands and a lot of my friends were in those bands and it was fun until it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you did kind of tell me about why you were wanting to join the Peace Corps. Can you elaborate more on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I wanted to see how other. I wanted what I did with my day to help someone, to be helpful to someone. One thing. Another thing that I did after work was I tutored ESL to some, a lot of my students were the people who worked in the strawberry fields in Carlsbad and they were migrant workers. And it was even though I worked 8 hours a day, I always found the energy to talk to the students. And I always found that it was very, um, it gave me energy and it gave me joy to help. I won't say, I won't say help. They don't need help. But just to support people as they learn English and learn to take their place as people in this country. So and I wanted to do that in a way that would be able to pay my expenses as well as see how other people live. So that's kind of my whole, that's kind of the reason why I joined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have a specific project or country in mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.684949882599675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was living in Oceanside, California, and I was a marketing communications specialist for the Outdoor Channel. And if you don't know what the Outdoor Channel is, it's a cable TV channel devoted to hunting and fishing and things like that. And I was single and no kids. I was 34 and I was bored with my life and I was bored with making money for other people and doing the same thing every day. I did have a life outside of work. It mostly consisted of going down to San Diego to hear bands and a lot of my friends were in those bands and it was fun until it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you did kind of tell me about why you were wanting to join the Peace Corps. Can you elaborate more on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I wanted to see how other. I wanted what I did with my day to help someone, to be helpful to someone. One thing. Another thing that I did after work was I tutored ESL to some, a lot of my students were the people who worked in the strawberry fields in Carlsbad and they were migrant workers. And it was even though I worked 8 hours a day, I always found the energy to talk to the students. And I always found that it was very, um, it gave me energy and it gave me joy to help. I won't say, I won't say help. They don't need help. But just to support people as they learn English and learn to take their place as people in this country. So and I wanted to do that in a way that would be able to pay my expenses as well as see how other people live. So that's kind of my whole, that's kind of the reason why I joined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have a specific project or country in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to go to China and learn Chinese or Mandarin, and I was not on the right application cycle for China. So I got invited to Ukraine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you, what was your initial reaction when you got invited to go to the Ukraine?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 36.316610980666304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I wanted to see how other. I wanted what I did with my day to help someone, to be helpful to someone. One thing. Another thing that I did after work was I tutored ESL to some, a lot of my students were the people who worked in the strawberry fields in Carlsbad and they were migrant workers. And it was even though I worked 8 hours a day, I always found the energy to talk to the students. And I always found that it was very, um, it gave me energy and it gave me joy to help. I won't say, I won't say help. They don't need help. But just to support people as they learn English and learn to take their place as people in this country. So and I wanted to do that in a way that would be able to pay my expenses as well as see how other people live. So that's kind of my whole, that's kind of the reason why I joined."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have a specific project or country in mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wanted to go to China and learn Chinese or Mandarin, and I was not on the right application cycle for China. So I got invited to Ukraine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Can you, what was your initial reaction when you got invited to go to the Ukraine?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I didn't know very much about Ukraine. I did have some ESL students from there, and I knew that Dnipropetrovsk was a hard word to say because they would, they were having trouble with English pronunciation. And they said, well, hey, can you say Dnipropetrovsk? And I can say a lot better now than I could back then. But Dnipropetrovsk is a city that, in Ukraine, that's now actually called the Dnipro, because Dnipropetrovsk was the Soviet name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe upon arriving in Ukraine what it was like? What was your, initially arriving there, what was your impression of the place?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 36.07216869775899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was really tired. I think this is common with all Peace Corps volunteers. We had flown from Chicago to, what's that city in Germany, the one? Hamburg? No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Berlin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the one, the big, the big airport hub. Frankfurt. Yeah. We had flown from Chicago to Frankfurt and then Frankfurt to Kyiv. And I was really tired and kind of all airports look the same. So we were kind of herded through the airport. And then we had to wait in a long line for, but yeah, all airports. It was kind of your standard airport experience. And then we got on busses and we were taken outside the city to an old sanatorium. And this is where we would have our training our first week, where we were there for about a week before we went to our training sites. And it was, a sanatorium is a health resort where people would go. Either you got guaranteed in the Soviet Union, you got guaranteed a month of vacation, but you had to take it with your coworkers. And you would also, that's where you would also get treated for any maladies that you that you had.\n\nSo we have these little rooms in this kind of crumbling sanatorium. It was very pretty. It was on a river. And we had, it was a very structured schedule. And we had started our language training. We started our technical training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about those trainings a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very basic. We, at the time, some of us learned Russian and some of us learned Ukrainian. That's changed. There's no Russian language training anymore. And we just, we started out with the Russian alphabet and learning basic phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems very hard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 37.85796521973221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, the one, the big, the big airport hub. Frankfurt. Yeah. We had flown from Chicago to Frankfurt and then Frankfurt to Kyiv. And I was really tired and kind of all airports look the same. So we were kind of herded through the airport. And then we had to wait in a long line for, but yeah, all airports. It was kind of your standard airport experience. And then we got on busses and we were taken outside the city to an old sanatorium. And this is where we would have our training our first week, where we were there for about a week before we went to our training sites. And it was, a sanatorium is a health resort where people would go. Either you got guaranteed in the Soviet Union, you got guaranteed a month of vacation, but you had to take it with your coworkers. And you would also, that's where you would also get treated for any maladies that you that you had.\n\nSo we have these little rooms in this kind of crumbling sanatorium. It was very pretty. It was on a river. And we had, it was a very structured schedule. And we had started our language training. We started our technical training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about those trainings a little bit?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very basic. We, at the time, some of us learned Russian and some of us learned Ukrainian. That's changed. There's no Russian language training anymore. And we just, we started out with the Russian alphabet and learning basic phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems very hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The alphabet is not hard. It's the grammar that's hard. And it's. Unlike, let's say Spanish speakers, Russian speakers are not what we call sympathetic interlocutors. They're not very patient with people who make mistakes or who don't speak a language perfectly. It's hard for people to understand someone for whom Russian is an additional language. So. That's kind of, that was a little bit of an issue sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any technical training? I know you were already had some experience in teaching."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 35.397739133035785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very basic. We, at the time, some of us learned Russian and some of us learned Ukrainian. That's changed. There's no Russian language training anymore. And we just, we started out with the Russian alphabet and learning basic phrases."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Seems very hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The alphabet is not hard. It's the grammar that's hard. And it's. Unlike, let's say Spanish speakers, Russian speakers are not what we call sympathetic interlocutors. They're not very patient with people who make mistakes or who don't speak a language perfectly. It's hard for people to understand someone for whom Russian is an additional language. So. That's kind of, that was a little bit of an issue sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get any technical training? I know you were already had some experience in teaching."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had teaching. I had experience tutoring. But yeah, we had a lot of technical training. We were kind of student teachers at a school at our training site. My training site was called Kalynivka, and it was about 40 minutes outside of Kyiv by train. And there were two schools and I was placed at school number two, and I worked with a teacher who was a history teacher. But because all of a sudden they, in the public schools, they needed more English teachers, they kind of conscripted teachers from other subject areas to become English teachers. So the teacher was very nice, but she was very insecure about her English because it wasn't her area of training. She did speak it.\n\nBut I taught alongside, alongside her and that's where I was. It was a secondary school, worked with 9th and 10th grade or, no, actually it wasn't a secondary school, but I worked with 9th and 10th grade. The schools there go from 1st to 12th."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so how long was your training? And then after the training, where did you then go to for your site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.513030081857075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was working at a secondary school and it was a specialized school for the teaching of English. So during, it was set up during the Soviet times and during the Soviet times, they were the people who would become, who would maybe work in the KGB, maybe work in the military, have higher positions because of their ability in English. But after the fall of the Soviet Union, even though it was a place where parents sent their kids if they wanted them to become proficient in English. And so whereas most schools in Ukraine started in fifth grade in teaching English, the school I was at started in the first grade, and they had English every day rather than three days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And now were you actually teaching the students or were you teaching the teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching the students and I had my, um. Because it was a kind of a more elite school, the better teachers, the teachers who had more a lot more experience and some of them had traveled. So it wasn't the, they didn't want me there because they had a lack of English teachers or they, it was more to, um, I did what's called content based instruction. So I didn't really teach the English language. They did that, but I taught literature and history of the U.S. and the U.K. and other English speaking countries like South Africa, Jamaica, and places like, and Canada. So it was more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So they wanted more content in history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they showed me the textbook. They said, yeah, we teach them grammar, you can teach them something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you get the information to teach them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.79225564650786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was teaching the students and I had my, um. Because it was a kind of a more elite school, the better teachers, the teachers who had more a lot more experience and some of them had traveled. So it wasn't the, they didn't want me there because they had a lack of English teachers or they, it was more to, um, I did what's called content based instruction. So I didn't really teach the English language. They did that, but I taught literature and history of the U.S. and the U.K. and other English speaking countries like South Africa, Jamaica, and places like, and Canada. So it was more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. So they wanted more content in history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they showed me the textbook. They said, yeah, we teach them grammar, you can teach them something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you get the information to teach them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some books. I use the internet a lot and at that time I had, you paid by the gigabyte or the megabyte for internet. So I had, I actually, I had a cable. The way they did it was they actually connected a network cable into your house and you paid. You went down to the place and you bought however many megabytes you needed. And then when they ran out, you bought more. So no streaming video, no streaming audio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the biggest challenges?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.99139516278651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they showed me the textbook. They said, yeah, we teach them grammar, you can teach them something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where did you get the information to teach them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some books. I use the internet a lot and at that time I had, you paid by the gigabyte or the megabyte for internet. So I had, I actually, I had a cable. The way they did it was they actually connected a network cable into your house and you paid. You went down to the place and you bought however many megabytes you needed. And then when they ran out, you bought more. So no streaming video, no streaming audio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the biggest challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, let's see. I think isolation. There weren't a lot of volunteers around, and I kind of liked it that way. But it was, and I was very friendly. The teachers at the school were very friendly with me. And in school it was, we were social but not so much out of school. Everybody kind of had their own life. So I read a lot of books. I watched I think all the seasons of Lost on DVD, and we had DVDs that we would pass around when all the volunteers would get together. I did get a site mate six months into my service, and luckily she was about my same age and we got along really well. But I haven't said a word to her after we, um, after she went back to the States or after we returned to the States. But that was nice. And, um, I think that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the projects move? Or your job, was it smooth? Everything else seemed to go well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.434883514207232, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had some books. I use the internet a lot and at that time I had, you paid by the gigabyte or the megabyte for internet. So I had, I actually, I had a cable. The way they did it was they actually connected a network cable into your house and you paid. You went down to the place and you bought however many megabytes you needed. And then when they ran out, you bought more. So no streaming video, no streaming audio."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the biggest challenges?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, let's see. I think isolation. There weren't a lot of volunteers around, and I kind of liked it that way. But it was, and I was very friendly. The teachers at the school were very friendly with me. And in school it was, we were social but not so much out of school. Everybody kind of had their own life. So I read a lot of books. I watched I think all the seasons of Lost on DVD, and we had DVDs that we would pass around when all the volunteers would get together. I did get a site mate six months into my service, and luckily she was about my same age and we got along really well. But I haven't said a word to her after we, um, after she went back to the States or after we returned to the States. But that was nice. And, um, I think that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the projects move? Or your job, was it smooth? Everything else seemed to go well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of other Peace Corps volunteers, you know, throughout the world. I mean, there's always things, obstacles and problems that get in the way of doing your job."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.149870571341367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, let's see. I think isolation. There weren't a lot of volunteers around, and I kind of liked it that way. But it was, and I was very friendly. The teachers at the school were very friendly with me. And in school it was, we were social but not so much out of school. Everybody kind of had their own life. So I read a lot of books. I watched I think all the seasons of Lost on DVD, and we had DVDs that we would pass around when all the volunteers would get together. I did get a site mate six months into my service, and luckily she was about my same age and we got along really well. But I haven't said a word to her after we, um, after she went back to the States or after we returned to the States. But that was nice. And, um, I think that's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the projects move? Or your job, was it smooth? Everything else seemed to go well?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of other Peace Corps volunteers, you know, throughout the world. I mean, there's always things, obstacles and problems that get in the way of doing your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I won't say there weren't. But the teachers were very willing to work with me. And I was, I discovered that I was, that I wanted to be a teacher. So I think for a lot, that's where I discovered that I wanted to be a teacher, that I want to teach high school. And I think a lot of volunteers, they didn't or they didn't like teaching or didn't or, you know, or their school wasn't very receptive to them. But I think it was, I was very lucky I think. It could have gone wrong in so many ways, but I was a good fit for the school and the school was a good fit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it influenced you to become a teacher?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.166522857045962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of other Peace Corps volunteers, you know, throughout the world. I mean, there's always things, obstacles and problems that get in the way of doing your job."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I won't say there weren't. But the teachers were very willing to work with me. And I was, I discovered that I was, that I wanted to be a teacher. So I think for a lot, that's where I discovered that I wanted to be a teacher, that I want to teach high school. And I think a lot of volunteers, they didn't or they didn't like teaching or didn't or, you know, or their school wasn't very receptive to them. But I think it was, I was very lucky I think. It could have gone wrong in so many ways, but I was a good fit for the school and the school was a good fit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it influenced you to become a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. And, I mean, I think one big issue I had was the kids liked to demonstrate every English cuss word that they, this is a common thing with a lot of Ukraine volunteers. They just would let a stream of English profanity out and as you were walking in the door. And there were really no consequences, there was no detention, which is I mean, that's a good thing. I mean, detention doesn't do any, as we know, does it really help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The behavior, there was not good discipline you're saying? Or was it just with the cussing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.51835873005107, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I won't say there weren't. But the teachers were very willing to work with me. And I was, I discovered that I was, that I wanted to be a teacher. So I think for a lot, that's where I discovered that I wanted to be a teacher, that I want to teach high school. And I think a lot of volunteers, they didn't or they didn't like teaching or didn't or, you know, or their school wasn't very receptive to them. But I think it was, I was very lucky I think. It could have gone wrong in so many ways, but I was a good fit for the school and the school was a good fit for me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it influenced you to become a teacher?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. And, I mean, I think one big issue I had was the kids liked to demonstrate every English cuss word that they, this is a common thing with a lot of Ukraine volunteers. They just would let a stream of English profanity out and as you were walking in the door. And there were really no consequences, there was no detention, which is I mean, that's a good thing. I mean, detention doesn't do any, as we know, does it really help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The behavior, there was not good discipline you're saying? Or was it just with the cussing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just with that. You know, inside the classroom and once the school bell rang, it was okay. And once they figured out that, um, once they figured out that I could speak Russian sort of, they calmed down. Or, you know, the novelty wore off and, you know, and even if they weren't in my class, the kids who were in my class. Oh, she's okay, you know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the kids in this high school kids that were bound for college or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 37.24262081116785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm. Yeah. And, I mean, I think one big issue I had was the kids liked to demonstrate every English cuss word that they, this is a common thing with a lot of Ukraine volunteers. They just would let a stream of English profanity out and as you were walking in the door. And there were really no consequences, there was no detention, which is I mean, that's a good thing. I mean, detention doesn't do any, as we know, does it really help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The behavior, there was not good discipline you're saying? Or was it just with the cussing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just with that. You know, inside the classroom and once the school bell rang, it was okay. And once they figured out that, um, once they figured out that I could speak Russian sort of, they calmed down. Or, you know, the novelty wore off and, you know, and even if they weren't in my class, the kids who were in my class. Oh, she's okay, you know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were the kids in this high school kids that were bound for college or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some. But it was very difficult to get. Number one, you could take the exam and if you pass the exam to get into college, you still had to pay a bribe. So it was a very uneven, inequitable system of getting into college. So I think most people wanted to go, but not everyone did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. OK. What about free time in the Ukraine? Vacation time, free time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.02721809414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wasn't in Cartagena. I was in Barranquilla."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is about an hour to the west."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So Cartagena was, that's where you arrived first though, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's just, I just read the New York Times article about that city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, I'm so sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.8080201046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which is about an hour to the west."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So Cartagena was, that's where you arrived first though, you said?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that's just, I just read the New York Times article about that city."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, oh, I'm so sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And Cartagena gets a lot more tourists because it has an old, um, an old historical core and it's right on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were in Bar?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.6406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, to come in as an outsider and to just to. Scheduling was, you know, it wasn't lack of desire or lack of will to participate in these professional developments. It was time. And there are already a lot of teachers would finish one shift at the public school and go teach some classes at the university, because they needed the money. Or they would finish, um, they would finish their day at the school, the public school, and tutor for 5 hours. So there wasn't a whole lot of time for them to receive this, you know, what we were doing. And so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Colombia? Because I know this was Response. This wasn't a full two year stint, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was. Eleven. A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do any traveling other than?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00163:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, it was. Eleven. A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year. Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do any traveling other than?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just inside, well, inside the country, I'm trying to remember. Because I actually, I got a job after Response because one thing that we, one thing that another volunteer and I did was go. We went to the binational center. I don't know if you, it's called Centro Cultural Colombo Americano. And they offered English classes, they offered movies, they offered cultural programs. And they got, they received money from the State Department. And while I was a volunteer, another volunteer and I would say, OK, well, let's find something we can do where we're useful. And so we went and talked to the director there and they said, oh yeah, we have a conversation club. You can help lead the English Club. OK, something to do. And so after doing that, they offered me the job there.\n\nAnd I'm trying to remember what was during Peace Corps and what was. I went to Cartagena and Santa Marta because those were the three cities where volunteers were placed. We weren't placed anywhere else in the country. I think now they're starting to place people around Bogota and Boyacá in the interior of the country. But those were the, so I would visit other volunteers in Cartagena, Santa Marta. I went to Panama for spring break I think one year. But yeah, so I got to see a fair amount of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So kind of tying your two experiences together, what do you think were your biggest accomplishments or takeaways from your service in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.241377194484565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were everything from bankruptcy, to criminal, “lewd and lascivious behavior. ” [Laughs] Yeah, they were just the basic, and I was working on the Georgia courts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that was, you said, 20 hours a week?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was 20 hours a week. And then we ran out of money because they only allowed a salary cap, right? Which was fine for me, because it always happened in May, and the kids were out of school. So to pay money for somebody to watch them would have been just barely breaking even. So, then, I would start back over again. And so I stayed there. And then, I think at the same time I was doing the court cases, my boss put me in charge of the Tennessee Valley Authority records, which I really enjoyed doing those because it was the Depression era. And so, fortunately for me, I gained a lot of experience, because we had the negatives of these wonderful pictures, just incredible pictures of the people standing in front of their little, poor houses, and in front of their stills with guns, churches, all kinds of great pictures. So I had reported to him that Iʼd noticed some of them were bubbling up, and so on. And we started a huge contract to get the—I can't remember what it's called, those particular photos that bubble up like that—is it acetate?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I think thatʼs right, cellulose acetate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were acetate. So we started this big contract with somebody in Chicago, a company, and I started having to send those, describe them, and then, post that—if you can remember, I don't know what it was called then. Was it EAP [Electronic Archive Project], with Dan Jansen where we started having to put those first photos, anything that went online digitally. I donʼt know if you were there then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was before me."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.73917796149734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Same."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, thatʼs really, so thatʼs interesting. So they realized after the fact, that they needed to protect these people's privacy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Well, their faces. And so not only that, but the whole case files were open, which was really, you know, a total invasion of people's privacy, to talk about their sex life, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the whole thing—it was amazing to me that that ever happened. And to see it firsthand was something else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I can imagine. It must have been a bit disturbing, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.496814761999094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was disturbing. Well, we know there was penicillin available, and that was horrible, just to know it was withheld."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, that was bad. And even with the Tennessee Valley Authority records, those were also open—the case files, which I complained about not too long after I started. I said, “you know, these government officials went out to these homes, and they interviewed, and they wrote down this case file, and theyʼre calling them morons, or ʻthey're retarded, ʼ or just went on and on about how dirty they were. ” I just didnʼt feel like that needed to be in the public eye, or at least take the name out. I think it was a good 10 or 15 years later where they decided to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could get all of that. And I mean, it is history and I understand it, but it was to me, the way they described people, they wouldʼve been fired now. So it was weird. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that, was that also put online?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.99646084666566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, that was bad. And even with the Tennessee Valley Authority records, those were also open—the case files, which I complained about not too long after I started. I said, “you know, these government officials went out to these homes, and they interviewed, and they wrote down this case file, and theyʼre calling them morons, or ʻthey're retarded, ʼ or just went on and on about how dirty they were. ” I just didnʼt feel like that needed to be in the public eye, or at least take the name out. I think it was a good 10 or 15 years later where they decided to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could get all of that. And I mean, it is history and I understand it, but it was to me, the way they described people, they wouldʼve been fired now. So it was weird. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that, was that also put online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't online, but they were open. The regions don't have, like we do, restrictions. So you can come in and say, “I want to see all the case files. ” And so researchers did that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That is pretty disturbing. So, how long were you at the records center then—or at the archives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.551623162961844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you could get all of that. And I mean, it is history and I understand it, but it was to me, the way they described people, they wouldʼve been fired now. So it was weird. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So was that, was that also put online?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they weren't online, but they were open. The regions don't have, like we do, restrictions. So you can come in and say, “I want to see all the case files. ” And so researchers did that, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. That is pretty disturbing. So, how long were you at the records center then—or at the archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Thinking] Probably ʻ83 to ʻ96, maybe, ʻ97."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was 20 hours a week, usually?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.088423657977586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Thinking] Probably ʻ83 to ʻ96, maybe, ʻ97."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was 20 hours a week, usually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I was, like I said, I would do part-time, permanent part-time. Iʼm not sure what year that was, but then my husband died. And it wasn't a matter of emergency, but I needed to get more hours, so they put me at full-time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in 1995, when he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So how old were your kids? In high school?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.098248508863986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I was, like I said, I would do part-time, permanent part-time. Iʼm not sure what year that was, but then my husband died. And it wasn't a matter of emergency, but I needed to get more hours, so they put me at full-time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in 1995, when he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So how old were your kids? In high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. The twins, the youngest ones, yeah. They were seniors when my husband died, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a different building, correct? So where was that building?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.331387232071094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was in 1995, when he died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So how old were your kids? In high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. The twins, the youngest ones, yeah. They were seniors when my husband died, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a different building, correct? So where was that building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah [laughs], youʼve never been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I went to the Atlanta archives, now, the new one."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 22.59043025785677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. The twins, the youngest ones, yeah. They were seniors when my husband died, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was a different building, correct? So where was that building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah [laughs], youʼve never been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I went to the Atlanta archives, now, the new one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one. Yeah. That was an old military supply depot in East Point. It was really kind of nasty. And I was so scared to go to the library because we always said, “Youʼre going from the slum to the country club. [Daria laughs] Youʼre not going to fit in. [Laughs] But I found that not to be the case, real quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who was working? Who on staff was there, thatʼs there now, when you started at the library?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.322700286507523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah [laughs], youʼve never been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I went to the Atlanta archives, now, the new one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one. Yeah. That was an old military supply depot in East Point. It was really kind of nasty. And I was so scared to go to the library because we always said, “Youʼre going from the slum to the country club. [Daria laughs] Youʼre not going to fit in. [Laughs] But I found that not to be the case, real quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who was working? Who on staff was there, thatʼs there now, when you started at the library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Letʼs see, now. Ceri [Escodi, now McCarron], Youlanda [Logan]. Keith [Shuler]. I think that's it, as far as the archival staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I thought Betty [Egwenike], maybe."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.247444762786134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one. Yeah. That was an old military supply depot in East Point. It was really kind of nasty. And I was so scared to go to the library because we always said, “Youʼre going from the slum to the country club. [Daria laughs] Youʼre not going to fit in. [Laughs] But I found that not to be the case, real quick."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who was working? Who on staff was there, thatʼs there now, when you started at the library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Letʼs see, now. Ceri [Escodi, now McCarron], Youlanda [Logan]. Keith [Shuler]. I think that's it, as far as the archival staff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I thought Betty [Egwenike], maybe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Betty. That's right, Betty was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. I just happened to see a list of employees from ʻ96 somewhere. Anyway, OK, so you were doing processing. You were hired to do processing?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.392601930950253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. My first processing was the anti-inflation adviser, Alfred Kahn, records. I went from there to doing the very first of the First Ladyʼs Office, and that lasted years, before we even got to the end, or close to the end, of that. And then I just did whatever processing I could—DPS [Domestic Policy Staff], I did almost probably everything I can think of, every collection, I did one or two series in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. So what was your favorite part of the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the library?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the library, I think that once I got involved in accessioning, doing the inventory. I liked the fact that I didnʼt have to process all day, but I could do two hours here, I could get up and move around. And I really enjoyed that, moving around. And once I was in that part, I was a lot happier. Iʼm just not the type of person that can do processing eight hours a day. I just canʼt do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was everybody doing that, was everybody on one task?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 21.71926164314846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At the library, I think that once I got involved in accessioning, doing the inventory. I liked the fact that I didnʼt have to process all day, but I could do two hours here, I could get up and move around. And I really enjoyed that, moving around. And once I was in that part, I was a lot happier. Iʼm just not the type of person that can do processing eight hours a day. I just canʼt do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was everybody doing that, was everybody on one task?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think for the longest time, I canʼt remember the exact years, but at some point it was just me and Youlanda processing, because they put everybody in the vault. They just left the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so like Keith, Chuck Stokely, Betty, all of them, they had a huge staff down there, because they were so far behind. And I knew nothing about their processes, I didnʼt really pay it much attention. But, yeah, eventually there were just a couple of us upstairs. Even, yeah, James Herring went down to the vault. And they werenʼt happy about it, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who was doing the Research Room, then? Did everybody split that up?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.465846270164956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think for the longest time, I canʼt remember the exact years, but at some point it was just me and Youlanda processing, because they put everybody in the vault. They just left the two of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so like Keith, Chuck Stokely, Betty, all of them, they had a huge staff down there, because they were so far behind. And I knew nothing about their processes, I didnʼt really pay it much attention. But, yeah, eventually there were just a couple of us upstairs. Even, yeah, James Herring went down to the vault. And they werenʼt happy about it, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who was doing the Research Room, then? Did everybody split that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Research Room was rotation. I think it was on a daily thing, actually, like, on Tuesdays, I would do it—yeah. And then they switched to Keith and somebody else, Chuck Stokely, maybe, splitting it. And that was really great. [Laughs] And then it was Bert Nason—he was there, by the way, I didnʼt think about that. But Bert started doing it full time. And when you were in there, you would, if you were full-time Research Room, you did all the requests, researcher requests, while you were sitting there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But somebody else had to do the pulls?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.962051411294395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so like Keith, Chuck Stokely, Betty, all of them, they had a huge staff down there, because they were so far behind. And I knew nothing about their processes, I didnʼt really pay it much attention. But, yeah, eventually there were just a couple of us upstairs. Even, yeah, James Herring went down to the vault. And they werenʼt happy about it, but, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But who was doing the Research Room, then? Did everybody split that up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Research Room was rotation. I think it was on a daily thing, actually, like, on Tuesdays, I would do it—yeah. And then they switched to Keith and somebody else, Chuck Stokely, maybe, splitting it. And that was really great. [Laughs] And then it was Bert Nason—he was there, by the way, I didnʼt think about that. But Bert started doing it full time. And when you were in there, you would, if you were full-time Research Room, you did all the requests, researcher requests, while you were sitting there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But somebody else had to do the pulls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So there was a pull person, and a person in there, and I canʼt remember. But I think thatʼs how it worked. Like, if my day was Tuesday, then somebody else did the pulls on Tuesday. And Keith and somebody else had Wednesday, etc., etc., and then later we switched to weeks, and then stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many supervisors did you have at the library? Can you remember, can you think about it? Supervisory archivists, I mean, direct supervisors."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 16.624501568104883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Research Room was rotation. I think it was on a daily thing, actually, like, on Tuesdays, I would do it—yeah. And then they switched to Keith and somebody else, Chuck Stokely, maybe, splitting it. And that was really great. [Laughs] And then it was Bert Nason—he was there, by the way, I didnʼt think about that. But Bert started doing it full time. And when you were in there, you would, if you were full-time Research Room, you did all the requests, researcher requests, while you were sitting there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But somebody else had to do the pulls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So there was a pull person, and a person in there, and I canʼt remember. But I think thatʼs how it worked. Like, if my day was Tuesday, then somebody else did the pulls on Tuesday. And Keith and somebody else had Wednesday, etc., etc., and then later we switched to weeks, and then stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many supervisors did you have at the library? Can you remember, can you think about it? Supervisory archivists, I mean, direct supervisors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Counts] Four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, thatʼs pretty good. I mean, you were there a long time, so thatʼs not that high of a turnover."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.138335075672094, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. So there was a pull person, and a person in there, and I canʼt remember. But I think thatʼs how it worked. Like, if my day was Tuesday, then somebody else did the pulls on Tuesday. And Keith and somebody else had Wednesday, etc., etc., and then later we switched to weeks, and then stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how many supervisors did you have at the library? Can you remember, can you think about it? Supervisory archivists, I mean, direct supervisors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Counts] Four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, thatʼs pretty good. I mean, you were there a long time, so thatʼs not that high of a turnover."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Bob, and then Dave, and then Sara [Mitchell], and then back to Dave, and then Aisha [Johnson-Jones]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Dave was a supervisory archivist for, like, most of the time you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.264816750746771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Counts] Four."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, thatʼs pretty good. I mean, you were there a long time, so thatʼs not that high of a turnover."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was Bob, and then Dave, and then Sara [Mitchell], and then back to Dave, and then Aisha [Johnson-Jones]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Dave was a supervisory archivist for, like, most of the time you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I canʼt remember. It depends, because Jay Hakes was the director…first when I got there, Don Schewe was the director and I canʼt remember exactly when he left and Jay came. And when Jay came, Bob was promoted to deputy director, right? So then Dave came in and took his place. And Iʼm sure it was at least five or so years, yeah, for Dave to be the supervisor. So if you count Brittany [Parris, who had just become supervisory archivist at the time of the interview] then thatʼs six. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs true. How has the library changed over the years? Positives and negatives?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.734341667588606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I canʼt remember. It depends, because Jay Hakes was the director…first when I got there, Don Schewe was the director and I canʼt remember exactly when he left and Jay came. And when Jay came, Bob was promoted to deputy director, right? So then Dave came in and took his place. And Iʼm sure it was at least five or so years, yeah, for Dave to be the supervisor. So if you count Brittany [Parris, who had just become supervisory archivist at the time of the interview] then thatʼs six. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs true. How has the library changed over the years? Positives and negatives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Thinks] Well, to be honest with you, Iʼve always told everyone about a year after I started, I had a lot of different things that I could do. The first year, I just wanted to leave and run away, because I was so bored. But after that, I would tell everyone for the next probably 10 or 12 years, that I had the best job in the whole world. And I really enjoyed working there. We had these great Christmas parties, there was good feelings among people, there was good cooperation. And I donʼt know what really changed, just little by little, with the new director or with different things going on, I just—. Of course, electronic social media came into play, which was different, but—yeah, there was a time where I was so happy, for 10 or 15 years, and then I was miserable to the point of ridiculous, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was literally miserable, because we had new people come in, there was a lot, there was a conflict, and it was really, really difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still enjoyed the work, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.59371296398734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Thinks] Well, to be honest with you, Iʼve always told everyone about a year after I started, I had a lot of different things that I could do. The first year, I just wanted to leave and run away, because I was so bored. But after that, I would tell everyone for the next probably 10 or 12 years, that I had the best job in the whole world. And I really enjoyed working there. We had these great Christmas parties, there was good feelings among people, there was good cooperation. And I donʼt know what really changed, just little by little, with the new director or with different things going on, I just—. Of course, electronic social media came into play, which was different, but—yeah, there was a time where I was so happy, for 10 or 15 years, and then I was miserable to the point of ridiculous, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I was literally miserable, because we had new people come in, there was a lot, there was a conflict, and it was really, really difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you still enjoyed the work, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, Iʼve always enjoyed the work. Iʼm sort of anal retentive. I love to organize and go down to the detail level. So, yeah. I like what I did, and I just wish I hadnʼt gotten involved in the other political aspects that came into play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Which you canʼt, you know, you canʼt really help, right? They come, things change."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.609522177762148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, Iʼve always enjoyed the work. Iʼm sort of anal retentive. I love to organize and go down to the detail level. So, yeah. I like what I did, and I just wish I hadnʼt gotten involved in the other political aspects that came into play."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Which you canʼt, you know, you canʼt really help, right? They come, things change."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things change, and I tried to make the best of it, I did go through the, what is it, the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "RESOLVE?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "RESOLVE program, trying to help out, and that helped quite a bit. We got some things settled at that point. But yeah, I just wish that had never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, what are some of your favorite collections that youʼve worked on?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.566135753069053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things change, and I tried to make the best of it, I did go through the, what is it, the—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "RESOLVE?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "RESOLVE program, trying to help out, and that helped quite a bit. We got some things settled at that point. But yeah, I just wish that had never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, what are some of your favorite collections that youʼve worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that my favorite collection was the unprocessed, pre-Presidential Carter Family Papers. That was stuff from his gubernatorial era and also his state Senate [career], and you got to see him before, as he was moving through politically up the ranks. More candid, more annotations, more handwriting, a whole different period. And I think also, after that it would be the First Ladyʼs Office, that was pretty good, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work personally with Mrs. Carter, Rosalynn?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 10.629039725632282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "RESOLVE program, trying to help out, and that helped quite a bit. We got some things settled at that point. But yeah, I just wish that had never happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So, what are some of your favorite collections that youʼve worked on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that my favorite collection was the unprocessed, pre-Presidential Carter Family Papers. That was stuff from his gubernatorial era and also his state Senate [career], and you got to see him before, as he was moving through politically up the ranks. More candid, more annotations, more handwriting, a whole different period. And I think also, after that it would be the First Ladyʼs Office, that was pretty good, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work personally with Mrs. Carter, Rosalynn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would see her when I first started doing the papers, I probably met with her, like, maybe like three times, maybe once a year. And she would tell me things that she was worried about being seen, and I assured her that I had not seen those, and that I would take it into consideration. Of course, not open them. So thatʼs how that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked a lot with her assistant, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.36559969514698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that my favorite collection was the unprocessed, pre-Presidential Carter Family Papers. That was stuff from his gubernatorial era and also his state Senate [career], and you got to see him before, as he was moving through politically up the ranks. More candid, more annotations, more handwriting, a whole different period. And I think also, after that it would be the First Ladyʼs Office, that was pretty good, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work personally with Mrs. Carter, Rosalynn?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would see her when I first started doing the papers, I probably met with her, like, maybe like three times, maybe once a year. And she would tell me things that she was worried about being seen, and I assured her that I had not seen those, and that I would take it into consideration. Of course, not open them. So thatʼs how that went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you worked a lot with her assistant, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Melissa [Montgomery]. Because we started getting into the post-Presidential [papers]. I donʼt know how they slopped that on me, but one day they said, “Oh, now youʼre the Carter Center post-pres liaison. ” I was like, “Really?ʼ So that was a whole mess. And I did as much work on it as I could. Because itʼs not our records [i.e., not accessioned], so I didn't really feel like we should be spending a ton of time. Itʼs courtesy storage, as far as I was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I guess the idea is that eventually, that will become part of the library, is that right?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.624197154502445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Melissa [Montgomery]. Because we started getting into the post-Presidential [papers]. I donʼt know how they slopped that on me, but one day they said, “Oh, now youʼre the Carter Center post-pres liaison. ” I was like, “Really?ʼ So that was a whole mess. And I did as much work on it as I could. Because itʼs not our records [i.e., not accessioned], so I didn't really feel like we should be spending a ton of time. Itʼs courtesy storage, as far as I was concerned."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I guess the idea is that eventually, that will become part of the library, is that right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Correct. And to this day, I donʼt know the status of that. I've asked many a time. Iʼve even talked to Phil Wise [Carter Center vice president of operations and development], I said, “Hey, you can hire me as a contractor when I retire, for, you know, maybe one day a week, and Iʼll come in and start processing that stuff on Floor Two. ” And when I told him what my salary was, he said, “No way. ” [Laughs] We didnʼt go further than that, it was sort of like a joke, you know. At some point, thatʼs going to be a huge to-do over there, because we are now closing all Presidential handwriting, correct?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you see whatʼs down there, itʼll be a disaster area. Thatʼs going to be, really—if they continue with closing everything, I donʼt know. Itʼs going to be hard, really hard. Thereʼs going to be a lot of decisions to be made, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about how description has changed, since you started there? Well, even before that, starting, when you were at the Atlanta archives, how—not just electronically, but also like, at the library, you have paper finding aids, etc."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9434532771635125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you see whatʼs down there, itʼll be a disaster area. Thatʼs going to be, really—if they continue with closing everything, I donʼt know. Itʼs going to be hard, really hard. Thereʼs going to be a lot of decisions to be made, basically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk a little bit about how description has changed, since you started there? Well, even before that, starting, when you were at the Atlanta archives, how—not just electronically, but also like, at the library, you have paper finding aids, etc."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The paper finding aids. Then they went online. The worst part was, every supervisor had a different format. So, the format, we finally had a big committee, where we came up with the final format, probably in 2007, somewhere around there. But that was a problem—every supervisor had a different format of how they wanted description done. So that caused a problem in the legacy finding aids that theyʼd done before I ever got there. Everything was so much different, and we had to switch everything over to the new format, electronically, and then print them out, put them back in the notebooks. And it was very labor intensive. And I was always wanting to collaborate with other libraries to see what they were doing, but I was told not to do that, and did not do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, of course, now theyʼre trying to standardize it across all the libraries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they are?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, processing. Yes, a recent memo came out, and itʼs pretty much—standardizing processing is what itʼs about. Thereʼs not a lot of detail yet, but thereʼs a thing about basic and augmented processing."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.714948085737236, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The paper finding aids. Then they went online. The worst part was, every supervisor had a different format. So, the format, we finally had a big committee, where we came up with the final format, probably in 2007, somewhere around there. But that was a problem—every supervisor had a different format of how they wanted description done. So that caused a problem in the legacy finding aids that theyʼd done before I ever got there. Everything was so much different, and we had to switch everything over to the new format, electronically, and then print them out, put them back in the notebooks. And it was very labor intensive. And I was always wanting to collaborate with other libraries to see what they were doing, but I was told not to do that, and did not do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then, of course, now theyʼre trying to standardize it across all the libraries."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they are?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, processing. Yes, a recent memo came out, and itʼs pretty much—standardizing processing is what itʼs about. Thereʼs not a lot of detail yet, but thereʼs a thing about basic and augmented processing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an electronic archives before ARC? A catalog, I mean, before ARC?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.461053428596928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, they are?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, processing. Yes, a recent memo came out, and itʼs pretty much—standardizing processing is what itʼs about. Thereʼs not a lot of detail yet, but thereʼs a thing about basic and augmented processing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an electronic archives before ARC? A catalog, I mean, before ARC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was NAIL [NARA Audiovisual (later NARA Archival) Information Locator]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs right. I heard about NAIL."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.067837142885476, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there an electronic archives before ARC? A catalog, I mean, before ARC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was NAIL [NARA Audiovisual (later NARA Archival) Information Locator]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs right. I heard about NAIL."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First it was NAIL, and thatʼs why I did my training, and then that stayed in for about four years and then five and then went to ARC, and so on and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a preference over those, which one you liked working with the most?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.742041269872751, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was NAIL [NARA Audiovisual (later NARA Archival) Information Locator]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs right. I heard about NAIL."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First it was NAIL, and thatʼs why I did my training, and then that stayed in for about four years and then five and then went to ARC, and so on and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a preference over those, which one you liked working with the most?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I think ARC was so much better and easier than DAS [Description and Authorities System], which we have now. It just was. And the printouts in the catalog from ARC were so much easier, better, they were more concise. It was so much easier. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think what I was impressed with NARA, with the ARC program, when they rolled it out—was they actually had a team of archivists—theyʼd have one archivist from every region and one from every library. And for a solid year, before they came out with the platform, and how it was going to look, and the input system, they collaborated, right? And I think thatʼs what made ARC work so well, is because you actually had input from people who were going to use the system.\n\nRight."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.977828728237964, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, I think ARC was so much better and easier than DAS [Description and Authorities System], which we have now. It just was. And the printouts in the catalog from ARC were so much easier, better, they were more concise. It was so much easier. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think what I was impressed with NARA, with the ARC program, when they rolled it out—was they actually had a team of archivists—theyʼd have one archivist from every region and one from every library. And for a solid year, before they came out with the platform, and how it was going to look, and the input system, they collaborated, right? And I think thatʼs what made ARC work so well, is because you actually had input from people who were going to use the system.\n\nRight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so with DAS, I donʼt think there was any input, it just—boom, they were working on it. And then we just rolled it out. And to me, that shows how important it is to talk to the people that use the system every day, and what researchers want, and what they want, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, ARC was definitely much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you like working with researchers?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6420319202644045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so with DAS, I donʼt think there was any input, it just—boom, they were working on it. And then we just rolled it out. And to me, that shows how important it is to talk to the people that use the system every day, and what researchers want, and what they want, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, ARC was definitely much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you like working with researchers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, for a while. [Laughs] I think the older I got, the less I wanted to be interrupted. So it was fine with me, if people [other staff] were in the research room. I couldnʼt care less about going back in there [post-pandemic]. Uh. I donʼt know, it just wasnʼt my thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how has the library building changed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.380035466960449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, yeah, ARC was definitely much better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you like working with researchers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did, for a while. [Laughs] I think the older I got, the less I wanted to be interrupted. So it was fine with me, if people [other staff] were in the research room. I couldnʼt care less about going back in there [post-pandemic]. Uh. I donʼt know, it just wasnʼt my thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how has the library building changed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the structure?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside, you know, the offices?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6420190950129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the structure?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Inside, you know, the offices?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually had more space when I first got there, and then of course, they had to make accommodations, and then we had the whole renovation. And I think a lot of people were a little upset over that, because there wasnʼt enough staff input. And I canʼt think of many people that like the way itʼs arranged in Suite A [archival staff office] now, because itʼs just, weʼre on top of each other, one right behind, and phone conversations and all of that gets skewed. Thereʼs no panels. Thereʼs no nothing. And I understand that that was the Google way to do it, but weʼre not Google. [Laughs] So, yeah, I think I even found out that Google is now going away from all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Theyʼre actually going back to cubicles and such, for privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before, you had more like cubicles with walls?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.380021216681, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We actually had more space when I first got there, and then of course, they had to make accommodations, and then we had the whole renovation. And I think a lot of people were a little upset over that, because there wasnʼt enough staff input. And I canʼt think of many people that like the way itʼs arranged in Suite A [archival staff office] now, because itʼs just, weʼre on top of each other, one right behind, and phone conversations and all of that gets skewed. Thereʼs no panels. Thereʼs no nothing. And I understand that that was the Google way to do it, but weʼre not Google. [Laughs] So, yeah, I think I even found out that Google is now going away from all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Theyʼre actually going back to cubicles and such, for privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before, you had more like cubicles with walls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they werenʼt cubicles, but they were, like, really full walls, wooden walls with a top. And they were about, I guess, they came up to just below my neck, so I could always look over and see the next person. But they were a much bigger area. And, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are you going to miss about the job?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.20002357409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Theyʼre actually going back to cubicles and such, for privacy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So before, you had more like cubicles with walls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they werenʼt cubicles, but they were, like, really full walls, wooden walls with a top. And they were about, I guess, they came up to just below my neck, so I could always look over and see the next person. But they were a much bigger area. And, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what are you going to miss about the job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iʼm going to miss a lot of not being able to control things [laughs], because I know where thereʼs a lot of errors in DAS, and in describing, and cubic footage, and Iʼll miss not being able to finish those kinds of things, you know, make it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, unfinished business."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.185214289000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Iʼm going to miss a lot of not being able to control things [laughs], because I know where thereʼs a lot of errors in DAS, and in describing, and cubic footage, and Iʼll miss not being able to finish those kinds of things, you know, make it right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, unfinished business."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unfinished business. And I hope that moving forward, somebody will dig in, and be anal. and just say, “hey, ” you know, do it. You don't get paid extra for doing those things, but itʼs very frustrating to go to my series, and I have .504 cubic feet, DAS says I have .252. And Iʼm like, “Howʼd that happen?” And you start delving in and comparing those discrepancies. Itʼs really difficult, and itʼs also detailed. We had that problem of people putting the same series in the same box, which has really caused a problem. So you have one series, “Subject Files, ” itʼs Box One through Seven. Then you started “Correspondence, ” but you put half of the Correspondence in Box Seven. Youʼre basically counting everything twice, which itʼs not that much cubic feet, but it does add up after a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I donʼt know really where they are, with how important that is, thatʼs my point. How important is it, is my thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know what you mean, weʼre still not using HMS [Holdings Management System], so thatʼs when you would think it would be important. I donʼt know."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1792769000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I donʼt know really where they are, with how important that is, thatʼs my point. How important is it, is my thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know what you mean, weʼre still not using HMS [Holdings Management System], so thatʼs when you would think it would be important. I donʼt know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But if you look at other libraries, theyʼre way behind us, you know, especially the older libraries. And I always wonder, you know, “Well, if theyʼre not enforcing certain things with this library, then why do they enforce it on everybody else?” I mean, to me, the most frustrating thing, working at the library, was the way everything was done differently at every library. Right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at the regions, you had these forms, when you added cubic feet—I don't know, it was a 14044, or something like that. And you had to put it down precisely, it had to go up to somebody, you had accessioning forms when new material came in, you had a database. And all the regions, as far as I know, pretty much had to do it the same way. And then when I went to the library, I said, “Well, where's your loan database?” or “Where's your this?” And they had nothing. And that part is weird, strange."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I mean, for the regions, theyʼre federal forms right? Theyʼre actually, yeah, part of the federal record to have these official forms. But they don't have those at the library, or didnʼt. I guess they might have some more now than they did before."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.04849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And at the regions, you had these forms, when you added cubic feet—I don't know, it was a 14044, or something like that. And you had to put it down precisely, it had to go up to somebody, you had accessioning forms when new material came in, you had a database. And all the regions, as far as I know, pretty much had to do it the same way. And then when I went to the library, I said, “Well, where's your loan database?” or “Where's your this?” And they had nothing. And that part is weird, strange."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I mean, for the regions, theyʼre federal forms right? Theyʼre actually, yeah, part of the federal record to have these official forms. But they don't have those at the library, or didnʼt. I guess they might have some more now than they did before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think for even loans that we took out to other libraries, I donʼt even think everybody was using the same loan form back then. And I said, “Well, how do you record when nothing comes back, if it's not dated somewhere?” You know, there were just different things that were really different. Because [in the region] we could get in big trouble, like putting the wrong amount of cubic footage on a form. And maybe thatʼs because we had the agency records. And if the agency wanted something, and you couldnʼt find it, well, then you were in a lot of trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe with the library, itʼs all donor deed, at least in our library. And maybe things are more copasetic among the PRA [Presidential Records Act] libraries. I donʼt know, I havenʼt worked there, so Iʼm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to talk about, as far as work?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think for even loans that we took out to other libraries, I donʼt even think everybody was using the same loan form back then. And I said, “Well, how do you record when nothing comes back, if it's not dated somewhere?” You know, there were just different things that were really different. Because [in the region] we could get in big trouble, like putting the wrong amount of cubic footage on a form. And maybe thatʼs because we had the agency records. And if the agency wanted something, and you couldnʼt find it, well, then you were in a lot of trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe with the library, itʼs all donor deed, at least in our library. And maybe things are more copasetic among the PRA [Presidential Records Act] libraries. I donʼt know, I havenʼt worked there, so Iʼm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to talk about, as far as work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Iʼm just going to miss a lot of my work. And as I told Brittany, Iʼm not a winter person. So maybe when itʼs raining, and freezing cold, and Iʼm bored, Iʼll come in and do some crap work. And nobody has to train me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Youʼre ready to get started."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.529, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so maybe with the library, itʼs all donor deed, at least in our library. And maybe things are more copasetic among the PRA [Presidential Records Act] libraries. I donʼt know, I havenʼt worked there, so Iʼm not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to talk about, as far as work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Iʼm just going to miss a lot of my work. And as I told Brittany, Iʼm not a winter person. So maybe when itʼs raining, and freezing cold, and Iʼm bored, Iʼll come in and do some crap work. And nobody has to train me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Youʼre ready to get started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Yeah. And then, like I said, the biggest problem with volunteers is having to train them—or interns. And at least if I come in and do something, I donʼt need any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs right, thatʼs right."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Iʼm just going to miss a lot of my work. And as I told Brittany, Iʼm not a winter person. So maybe when itʼs raining, and freezing cold, and Iʼm bored, Iʼll come in and do some crap work. And nobody has to train me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true. Youʼre ready to get started."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughs] Yeah. And then, like I said, the biggest problem with volunteers is having to train them—or interns. And at least if I come in and do something, I donʼt need any of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thatʼs right, thatʼs right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Iʼm hoping everything goes well for the library moving forward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess the libraryʼs almost done with a lot of their collections, right? How much still needs to be processed?"}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Iʼm hoping everything goes well for the library moving forward."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I guess the libraryʼs almost done with a lot of their collections, right? How much still needs to be processed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And thatʼs going to change a lot of what you guys are doing, of course. The most stuff left is that Presidential Personnel Office [Collection], which is probably pretty boring and a lot of Social Security numbers. And then, if thatʼs done, I mean, youʼre pretty much, I think itʼs only like a thousand cubic feet that are left to be processed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So thatʼll change what everybodyʼs focus is, and Iʼm sure it'll be going back to checking mistakes previously and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And maybe doing some rehousing of stuff thatʼs in older boxes."}]}
{"block_id": "oral-history-at-the-national-archives-00036:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So thatʼll change what everybodyʼs focus is, and Iʼm sure it'll be going back to checking mistakes previously and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And maybe doing some rehousing of stuff thatʼs in older boxes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, thereʼs some problems with that. But again, as when I came from the region to there, that part was the country club. The way the records [in the region] were stored in the most horrific FRC boxes and all over the place. That was nice, to come into that environment where everything was in a little Hollinger box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So moving forward, I think thatʼs kind of the way itʼs going to go, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I can shut off the recording now. Nice talking to you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.314912469418228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. The wind tunnel. There were other wind tunnels involved, but I was fortunate enough to be involved with a tunnel that was particularly suited to the speed range for those particular aircraft. Those were exciting times in aeronautics, and I remember in the early fifties when Dick [Richard T.] Whitcomb discovered the famous area rule. I accompanied him to a visit to General Dynamics out in San Diego during the period when the [Convair F-] 102 aircraft was under contract. And, we helped turn that whole operation around; and General Dynamics went on [to redesign], first, for the 102A, to demonstrate, in no uncertain terms, the effectiveness of the area rule. And then they went on to redesign the [F-]106, which was a perfect example of a[n] area rule application for a tail-less airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must’ve ended up crossing the country out to Edwards frequently then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was out at Edwards quite a bit, because I was also the Langley member of the Research Airplane Panel—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My next question would go right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—which kind of oversaw the operation of the research activity. At one time, Edwards was called the Langley High-Speed Station. That was a division of Langley. And Hartley [A.] Soulé, who was my boss, as Assistant Director at Langley; also wore a Headquarters hat as the Research Airplane Leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you got into the rockets right out of jets?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.016569410464697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was out at Edwards quite a bit, because I was also the Langley member of the Research Airplane Panel—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My next question would go right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—which kind of oversaw the operation of the research activity. At one time, Edwards was called the Langley High-Speed Station. That was a division of Langley. And Hartley [A.] Soulé, who was my boss, as Assistant Director at Langley; also wore a Headquarters hat as the Research Airplane Leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you got into the rockets right out of jets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockets—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were doing them at the same time practically, weren’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.685077122738555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—which kind of oversaw the operation of the research activity. At one time, Edwards was called the Langley High-Speed Station. That was a division of Langley. And Hartley [A.] Soulé, who was my boss, as Assistant Director at Langley; also wore a Headquarters hat as the Research Airplane Leader."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, you got into the rockets right out of jets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockets—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were doing them at the same time practically, weren’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of criticism of NASA in the fifties for not doing more in space, and some of that criticism was unfounded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean NACA or NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.538974580820618, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rockets—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were doing them at the same time practically, weren’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of criticism of NASA in the fifties for not doing more in space, and some of that criticism was unfounded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean NACA or NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean N-A-C-A?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.59886064535624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a lot of criticism of NASA in the fifties for not doing more in space, and some of that criticism was unfounded."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean NACA or NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mean N-A-C-A?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "N-A-C-A, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry. Just a correction."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.932593477854926, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "N-A-C-A was N-A-C-A until ’58."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we had, of course, the Pilotless Aircraft Research Station at Wallops [Island, Virginia], which was very effective in particular before we had a transonic wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uhm-hm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The transonic wind tunnel didn’t come into play at all until the middle-fifties really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the tools coming along that almost—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.369548308727694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But then we had, of course, the Pilotless Aircraft Research Station at Wallops [Island, Virginia], which was very effective in particular before we had a transonic wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uhm-hm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The transonic wind tunnel didn’t come into play at all until the middle-fifties really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the tools coming along that almost—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had the what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the tools coming along, but almost at pace with just exactly what you needed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.077275898586326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The transonic wind tunnel didn’t come into play at all until the middle-fifties really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had the tools coming along that almost—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Had the what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the tools coming along, but almost at pace with just exactly what you needed."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, the X-1 through the X-15: What was your input with those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.93490851677324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, the X-1 through the X-15: What was your input with those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the X-1 was [an] aspect ratio 6 straight [wing] airplane. Now, looking back, it seems bizarre that we should ever have hoped a configuration like that would be a transonic airplane. But it did have a thin wing. We had a 6% wing. 8% was the one that [Charles E.] Yeager flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then NASA had one with 10%. And then in time there was a low-aspect ratio—aspect ratio 4—X-1E, which I had a hand in having built. And that is the wing that’s on the model outside the—not the model, but the actual aircraft, outside the Headquarters building out at Dryden Station [Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards Air Force Base, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’ve seen it many times."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.927676129748047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the X-1 was [an] aspect ratio 6 straight [wing] airplane. Now, looking back, it seems bizarre that we should ever have hoped a configuration like that would be a transonic airplane. But it did have a thin wing. We had a 6% wing. 8% was the one that [Charles E.] Yeager flew."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then NASA had one with 10%. And then in time there was a low-aspect ratio—aspect ratio 4—X-1E, which I had a hand in having built. And that is the wing that’s on the model outside the—not the model, but the actual aircraft, outside the Headquarters building out at Dryden Station [Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards Air Force Base, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’ve seen it many times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, then the D-558, John Stack was active in those days. John didn’t like rocket aircraft. He thought there ought to be a jet aircraft. And so the D-558-I was his brainchild, and that was a straight low-aspect ratio wing, something like the X-1E. But, in the meantime swept wings came along and just made a whole different ballgame out of aircraft design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then at the latter end of the Research Plane Program, you got into the lifting body concept. [With] the X-15, the fuselage almost flies itself, doesn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.141862366386718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then NASA had one with 10%. And then in time there was a low-aspect ratio—aspect ratio 4—X-1E, which I had a hand in having built. And that is the wing that’s on the model outside the—not the model, but the actual aircraft, outside the Headquarters building out at Dryden Station [Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards Air Force Base, California]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I’ve seen it many times."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, then the D-558, John Stack was active in those days. John didn’t like rocket aircraft. He thought there ought to be a jet aircraft. And so the D-558-I was his brainchild, and that was a straight low-aspect ratio wing, something like the X-1E. But, in the meantime swept wings came along and just made a whole different ballgame out of aircraft design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then at the latter end of the Research Plane Program, you got into the lifting body concept. [With] the X-15, the fuselage almost flies itself, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lifting body came in line with the design of space aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.1576248515408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, then the D-558, John Stack was active in those days. John didn’t like rocket aircraft. He thought there ought to be a jet aircraft. And so the D-558-I was his brainchild, and that was a straight low-aspect ratio wing, something like the X-1E. But, in the meantime swept wings came along and just made a whole different ballgame out of aircraft design."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then at the latter end of the Research Plane Program, you got into the lifting body concept. [With] the X-15, the fuselage almost flies itself, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lifting body came in line with the design of space aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, Al [Alfred J.] Eggers at Ames was the first one that come out with the M-1, I think it was. And Langley had…[the] HL-10, or whatever it was called. We used to call them “flying bathtubs” because they had very unusual characteristics; they had what we called a lift/drag ratio of a brick. But, in due time it turned out that you could in fact design a spacecraft with wings that could reenter and could be handled, and that’s the way the shuttle went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were in those formative days of Mercury when NACA switched over to NASA. Did you look back to the research program—the Research Plane Program—for material ideas? For instance, you had thrusters on the X-15, etc."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.952916501711996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The lifting body came in line with the design of space aircraft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, Al [Alfred J.] Eggers at Ames was the first one that come out with the M-1, I think it was. And Langley had…[the] HL-10, or whatever it was called. We used to call them “flying bathtubs” because they had very unusual characteristics; they had what we called a lift/drag ratio of a brick. But, in due time it turned out that you could in fact design a spacecraft with wings that could reenter and could be handled, and that’s the way the shuttle went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were in those formative days of Mercury when NACA switched over to NASA. Did you look back to the research program—the Research Plane Program—for material ideas? For instance, you had thrusters on the X-15, etc."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, we had thrusters on the X-15. Those are helpful. But I think one of the most important contributions of the X-15 was to demonstrate the ability for a pilot from 100,000 ft or more to eyeball a landing. And that was a fundamental reason why, when I was involved with the early days of the—I was the first Acting Director of the Shuttle Program—[I] insisted we could drop jet engines, which were part of our original concept, instead of having the spacecraft come down and [start] jet engines at 40,000 feet and then have to circle around and land. Because of the X-15 experience, we concluded that it was perfectly feasible and far more desirable to land the shuttle in that manner rather than to equip it with air-breathers that you had to take into space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did it time and again, the X-15 did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.94768500190222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, Al [Alfred J.] Eggers at Ames was the first one that come out with the M-1, I think it was. And Langley had…[the] HL-10, or whatever it was called. We used to call them “flying bathtubs” because they had very unusual characteristics; they had what we called a lift/drag ratio of a brick. But, in due time it turned out that you could in fact design a spacecraft with wings that could reenter and could be handled, and that’s the way the shuttle went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you were in those formative days of Mercury when NACA switched over to NASA. Did you look back to the research program—the Research Plane Program—for material ideas? For instance, you had thrusters on the X-15, etc."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, we had thrusters on the X-15. Those are helpful. But I think one of the most important contributions of the X-15 was to demonstrate the ability for a pilot from 100,000 ft or more to eyeball a landing. And that was a fundamental reason why, when I was involved with the early days of the—I was the first Acting Director of the Shuttle Program—[I] insisted we could drop jet engines, which were part of our original concept, instead of having the spacecraft come down and [start] jet engines at 40,000 feet and then have to circle around and land. Because of the X-15 experience, we concluded that it was perfectly feasible and far more desirable to land the shuttle in that manner rather than to equip it with air-breathers that you had to take into space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did it time and again, the X-15 did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The X-15 was very, very helpful in that. And, it also was helpful in training the pilots to operate those jet controls, when they lost aerodynamic control, and to experience the transition back to the regime of flight, when their transonic controls could be operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know at that time what was coming? When you were looking at that kind of technique, did you have some inkling of how that might apply to the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.392203706052122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The X-15 was very, very helpful in that. And, it also was helpful in training the pilots to operate those jet controls, when they lost aerodynamic control, and to experience the transition back to the regime of flight, when their transonic controls could be operating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know at that time what was coming? When you were looking at that kind of technique, did you have some inkling of how that might apply to the future?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. During the Research Airplane Program, there was a period when the slogan was, “Faster and Higher; Faster and Higher.” And, attempts were made to equip the X-15 to fly mach 6, for instance. But it turned out in the course of the fifties, when there was a lot of theoretical work done on lifting bodies and hypersonic jets, you ran into the situation where, when you fly at mach numbers 10, 12, 15, you heat up the machine, so terribly, so that it became a problem of heat protection. Then realization was, “Hey, look if you went a little faster, escape all that, go into orbit and then come on back, and you only have to negotiate the reentry instead of flying through it continuously in the hot environment.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I gather from that, then, the first thoughts about going to orbit was a way to escape thermal problems, and it was a way of traveling across distances rather than going into space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was certainly part of it. You could go half way around the world and then reenter instead of having to, you know, fly continuously at high mach numbers in the very high heat environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you get a kick out of the way your ideas keep reemerging now with the . . . we’re talking about supersonic transports that would do much the same thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.880226340057913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes. During the Research Airplane Program, there was a period when the slogan was, “Faster and Higher; Faster and Higher.” And, attempts were made to equip the X-15 to fly mach 6, for instance. But it turned out in the course of the fifties, when there was a lot of theoretical work done on lifting bodies and hypersonic jets, you ran into the situation where, when you fly at mach numbers 10, 12, 15, you heat up the machine, so terribly, so that it became a problem of heat protection. Then realization was, “Hey, look if you went a little faster, escape all that, go into orbit and then come on back, and you only have to negotiate the reentry instead of flying through it continuously in the hot environment.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I gather from that, then, the first thoughts about going to orbit was a way to escape thermal problems, and it was a way of traveling across distances rather than going into space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was certainly part of it. You could go half way around the world and then reenter instead of having to, you know, fly continuously at high mach numbers in the very high heat environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you get a kick out of the way your ideas keep reemerging now with the . . . we’re talking about supersonic transports that would do much the same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the supersonic transport is a low mach number; and, ironically, the lift/drag ratio of a mach 3 aircraft can be very high and approach that of a subsonic aircraft. The problem has been the propulsion has been inefficient and it wasn’t worth doing. Now, and I haven’t followed that too closely in recent years, but we know there are military jets [that] can now go supersonic without afterburners. And, improvements in efficiency of the supersonic-type power plants would make possible the mach 2, mach 2½ transport in time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m thinking particularly of the power plant for the proposed F-22. That’s the engine that can do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.64469593339768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was certainly part of it. You could go half way around the world and then reenter instead of having to, you know, fly continuously at high mach numbers in the very high heat environment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you get a kick out of the way your ideas keep reemerging now with the . . . we’re talking about supersonic transports that would do much the same thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the supersonic transport is a low mach number; and, ironically, the lift/drag ratio of a mach 3 aircraft can be very high and approach that of a subsonic aircraft. The problem has been the propulsion has been inefficient and it wasn’t worth doing. Now, and I haven’t followed that too closely in recent years, but we know there are military jets [that] can now go supersonic without afterburners. And, improvements in efficiency of the supersonic-type power plants would make possible the mach 2, mach 2½ transport in time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m thinking particularly of the power plant for the proposed F-22. That’s the engine that can do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be able to go supersonic without afterburners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And cruise there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.716328814886314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the supersonic transport is a low mach number; and, ironically, the lift/drag ratio of a mach 3 aircraft can be very high and approach that of a subsonic aircraft. The problem has been the propulsion has been inefficient and it wasn’t worth doing. Now, and I haven’t followed that too closely in recent years, but we know there are military jets [that] can now go supersonic without afterburners. And, improvements in efficiency of the supersonic-type power plants would make possible the mach 2, mach 2½ transport in time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I’m thinking particularly of the power plant for the proposed F-22. That’s the engine that can do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be able to go supersonic without afterburners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And cruise there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And cruise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like when NACA became NASA? Did people resent the shift? Some felt the Mercury Program might injure their careers, I see. Why did they feel like that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.12925423876257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That would be able to go supersonic without afterburners."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And cruise there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And cruise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like when NACA became NASA? Did people resent the shift? Some felt the Mercury Program might injure their careers, I see. Why did they feel like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was quite a bit of feeling of that nature. At Langley, there was a whole group who were still riding the high wave of contributing to the success of military aircraft. Suddenly overnight, this space business comes about. And we had people at Langley who refused to really get into the mode of space. And there was a lot of feeling about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t they take the idea seriously?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 30.1436158208473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And cruise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like when NACA became NASA? Did people resent the shift? Some felt the Mercury Program might injure their careers, I see. Why did they feel like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was quite a bit of feeling of that nature. At Langley, there was a whole group who were still riding the high wave of contributing to the success of military aircraft. Suddenly overnight, this space business comes about. And we had people at Langley who refused to really get into the mode of space. And there was a lot of feeling about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn’t they take the idea seriously?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened at Langley was when Project Mercury came about in ’59, Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth, who was the Langley Assistant Director, was named the leader of that program; and he asked me to be his Deputy. It was called the Space Task Group. And while we were established at Langley in a certain area, it was assigned to the Space Task Group, but administratively reported to [NASA] Headquarters. So we had that arrangement of a program within a Center that wasn’t responsible to the Center. And that resulted in a conflict of interest at times, because Project Mercury, in ’59 or ’60, was half the NASA budget. And, yet we had a very small group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were they? Who do you remember from the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.10322940845346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened at Langley was when Project Mercury came about in ’59, Bob [Robert R.] Gilruth, who was the Langley Assistant Director, was named the leader of that program; and he asked me to be his Deputy. It was called the Space Task Group. And while we were established at Langley in a certain area, it was assigned to the Space Task Group, but administratively reported to [NASA] Headquarters. So we had that arrangement of a program within a Center that wasn’t responsible to the Center. And that resulted in a conflict of interest at times, because Project Mercury, in ’59 or ’60, was half the NASA budget. And, yet we had a very small group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who were they? Who do you remember from the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, Gilruth and myself and Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews, a group of others and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.], who came out of the Flight Division of Langley. About the same time that this was all happening, as NACA transformed into NASA, there was a policy group at Headquarters deciding that, perhaps, they should transfer all aeronautical flight research out to Dryden High-Speed Flight Station, in those days. Those rumors were not only rumors but initial plans to do that; they never materialized at the time. But the net result of all that was several, I would say, of the key flight people transferred to the Space Task Group. And so we had an influx of experienced flight people—aircraft—and that was very helpful when it came to the shuttle because the fellows at Houston not only had flight experience but, by that time, space experience. And the shuttle was a combination of aircraft and spacecraft; and it was an ideal undertaking for a group such as Johnson [Space Center, Houston, Texas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a mass that moved to the West Coast, to Dryden, and then you had the Space Task Group taking up the void left by that mass of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, those people didn’t move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t? They stayed right there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 29.003588231614952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course, Gilruth and myself and Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews, a group of others and Chris [Christopher C.] Kraft [Jr.], who came out of the Flight Division of Langley. About the same time that this was all happening, as NACA transformed into NASA, there was a policy group at Headquarters deciding that, perhaps, they should transfer all aeronautical flight research out to Dryden High-Speed Flight Station, in those days. Those rumors were not only rumors but initial plans to do that; they never materialized at the time. But the net result of all that was several, I would say, of the key flight people transferred to the Space Task Group. And so we had an influx of experienced flight people—aircraft—and that was very helpful when it came to the shuttle because the fellows at Houston not only had flight experience but, by that time, space experience. And the shuttle was a combination of aircraft and spacecraft; and it was an ideal undertaking for a group such as Johnson [Space Center, Houston, Texas]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had a mass that moved to the West Coast, to Dryden, and then you had the Space Task Group taking up the void left by that mass of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, those people didn’t move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t? They stayed right there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They moved to the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only the responsibilities moved to Dryden for aircraft?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.226209146238833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, those people didn’t move."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t? They stayed right there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They moved to the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Only the responsibilities moved to Dryden for aircraft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Responsibilities; some of it. Not all of it. It turned out, in fact, even today, there’s still some political upheavals about moving all of Langley flight research out there to Dryden. So over the years, Langley has continued to do flight research. But all I’m saying is that the result of the moment was, we had a group of hardcore flight research people into the pro-gram, and that was great. In addition to that, the Canadian [AVRO CF-] 102 aircraft was canceled because the Canadians, because of the developments in the intercontinental ballistic missile world, they had concluded that the top defense against that was not another supersonic aircraft. And so they canceled the airplane. And, that was a whole corps of people thrown out of work. And we got a visit from Bob Linlay, I believe, and [James A.] Chamberlin to our Space Task Group saying they had some experienced people up there and perhaps we could find a role for them. So a group of us went up there—Gilruth and myself and Paul [E.] Purser, Chuck Mathews, maybe a couple of others—and, in the course of one weekend up there, we doubled the size of the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You brought in gold, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.73606067436893, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Responsibilities; some of it. Not all of it. It turned out, in fact, even today, there’s still some political upheavals about moving all of Langley flight research out there to Dryden. So over the years, Langley has continued to do flight research. But all I’m saying is that the result of the moment was, we had a group of hardcore flight research people into the pro-gram, and that was great. In addition to that, the Canadian [AVRO CF-] 102 aircraft was canceled because the Canadians, because of the developments in the intercontinental ballistic missile world, they had concluded that the top defense against that was not another supersonic aircraft. And so they canceled the airplane. And, that was a whole corps of people thrown out of work. And we got a visit from Bob Linlay, I believe, and [James A.] Chamberlin to our Space Task Group saying they had some experienced people up there and perhaps we could find a role for them. So a group of us went up there—Gilruth and myself and Paul [E.] Purser, Chuck Mathews, maybe a couple of others—and, in the course of one weekend up there, we doubled the size of the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You brought in gold, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The State Department was working with us; and 2 days later we had some of those people down at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were able to expedite the transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when it comes to, and I’m not talking about inventing Project Mercury as a concept, but I’m thinking from the point of actually building a spacecraft that would fly in space and deciding what was necessary to do that: How large was that group of people that actually came up with what we came to know as Project Mercury?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.817845193743253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The State Department was working with us; and 2 days later we had some of those people down at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Excellent."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were able to expedite the transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when it comes to, and I’m not talking about inventing Project Mercury as a concept, but I’m thinking from the point of actually building a spacecraft that would fly in space and deciding what was necessary to do that: How large was that group of people that actually came up with what we came to know as Project Mercury?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the fundamental spacecraft concept, there [were] probably not more than a half a dozen people involved with that. Max Faget [and] Caldwell [C.] Johnson were probably the two most influential people in that design. And operationally, Mathews and Gilruth had a lot to do with it. The rocket part, of course, was the Atlas; and our contributions to that were really that of project managers, utilizing the lift capabilities of that. We had nothing to do with the propulsion, except for the interface where Mercury had to be set on top of the Atlas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with man-rating the Atlas? I mean, that called into some redundant systems into the system and so forth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.130939104159168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were able to expedite the transfer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, when it comes to, and I’m not talking about inventing Project Mercury as a concept, but I’m thinking from the point of actually building a spacecraft that would fly in space and deciding what was necessary to do that: How large was that group of people that actually came up with what we came to know as Project Mercury?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the fundamental spacecraft concept, there [were] probably not more than a half a dozen people involved with that. Max Faget [and] Caldwell [C.] Johnson were probably the two most influential people in that design. And operationally, Mathews and Gilruth had a lot to do with it. The rocket part, of course, was the Atlas; and our contributions to that were really that of project managers, utilizing the lift capabilities of that. We had nothing to do with the propulsion, except for the interface where Mercury had to be set on top of the Atlas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have anything to do with man-rating the Atlas? I mean, that called into some redundant systems into the system and so forth."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to set specs for it, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.55671494340638, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had to set specs for it, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Man-rating was involved at that extent, and probably through more intense scrutiny of the production process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that must’ve been a hectic time, in coming up with a design. You didn’t have a great deal of time to do that in, did you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.50746104822931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Man-rating was involved at that extent, and probably through more intense scrutiny of the production process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that must’ve been a hectic time, in coming up with a design. You didn’t have a great deal of time to do that in, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some problems. Like, I think Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden wanted a metallic heatshield, for instance; and at that time the ablative material was fairly new, and there wasn’t enough experience with it; and we had built a metallic heatshield—[a] beryllium heatshield—for the Redstone Program. But in due time it turned out that the composite heatshield was the way to go. And that’s the way it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that became very expensive."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 29.452734498032566, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really what it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that must’ve been a hectic time, in coming up with a design. You didn’t have a great deal of time to do that in, did you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some problems. Like, I think Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden wanted a metallic heatshield, for instance; and at that time the ablative material was fairly new, and there wasn’t enough experience with it; and we had built a metallic heatshield—[a] beryllium heatshield—for the Redstone Program. But in due time it turned out that the composite heatshield was the way to go. And that’s the way it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that became very expensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Avco was involved with that up in Lowell, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the time element. I’m still fascinated by how quickly it was done. How little time did you really have to come up with something that was useful?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.94748277559174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were some problems. Like, I think Dr. [Hugh L.] Dryden wanted a metallic heatshield, for instance; and at that time the ablative material was fairly new, and there wasn’t enough experience with it; and we had built a metallic heatshield—[a] beryllium heatshield—for the Redstone Program. But in due time it turned out that the composite heatshield was the way to go. And that’s the way it went."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that became very expensive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Avco was involved with that up in Lowell, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the time element. I’m still fascinated by how quickly it was done. How little time did you really have to come up with something that was useful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of the interesting things is that we had the responsibility of decision-making. It didn’t have to pass through a bunch of committees. And, that was very instrumental in being able to decide something and go ahead with it. I ran into that myself during the astronaut selection program. Bob [Gilruth] had given me the responsibility of doing that, and in the course of 2 months, after a bunch of interviews, we had one meeting at Langley when I went through the maybe 25 candidates by that time. And, in the course of 2 hours, [we] came up with about a dozen and called in Gilruth; and we just decided on seven, and then the next half hour I had contacted them by phone. Now you couldn’t possibly do that in these days, you know, without a lot of criticism. Unfortunately, the only criticism we ever really got was, some claimed it was a loaded selection because there was three Air Force, three Navy, and a Marine. And that was purely accidental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Marine became the first one to fly in orbit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.608314195101933, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Avco was involved with that up in Lowell, Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the time element. I’m still fascinated by how quickly it was done. How little time did you really have to come up with something that was useful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of the interesting things is that we had the responsibility of decision-making. It didn’t have to pass through a bunch of committees. And, that was very instrumental in being able to decide something and go ahead with it. I ran into that myself during the astronaut selection program. Bob [Gilruth] had given me the responsibility of doing that, and in the course of 2 months, after a bunch of interviews, we had one meeting at Langley when I went through the maybe 25 candidates by that time. And, in the course of 2 hours, [we] came up with about a dozen and called in Gilruth; and we just decided on seven, and then the next half hour I had contacted them by phone. Now you couldn’t possibly do that in these days, you know, without a lot of criticism. Unfortunately, the only criticism we ever really got was, some claimed it was a loaded selection because there was three Air Force, three Navy, and a Marine. And that was purely accidental."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Marine became the first one to fly in orbit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Marine, yeah. And he was not added because he was a Marine, I’ll tell you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you tangentially, how do you feel about him flying again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.993846907855633, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now those were the original specs. And those were put out before we even had a campaign under way to select the astronauts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And some of them, as I interviewed them, had read that information and had already discussed with their spouses whether or not—if they got a call, they might be willing to participate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful. You’ve been asked the question over and over and over again; it wouldn’t be fair on this tape if we didn’t. No women? What happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the basic reason there was no woman is that the President of the United States said, “Select them from the graduates of the Flight Test Centers.” There weren’t any women in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it truly was the President—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.757835688710657, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the basic reason there was no woman is that the President of the United States said, “Select them from the graduates of the Flight Test Centers.” There weren’t any women in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it truly was the President—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The number one—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—category. Now, it turned out Dr. [W. Randolph] Lovelace [II] thought it’d be a good idea to have a woman. And he didn’t talk to me about it, but he did talk to Gilruth. And Gilruth essentially told him what I told you, that this wasn’t a program to equate the sexes and capabilities. We had a job to do. And, the President streamlined it for us by saying, “Select them from experienced test pilots.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a presidential decision that there be no women in the original first—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.61981743190073, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The number one—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—category. Now, it turned out Dr. [W. Randolph] Lovelace [II] thought it’d be a good idea to have a woman. And he didn’t talk to me about it, but he did talk to Gilruth. And Gilruth essentially told him what I told you, that this wasn’t a program to equate the sexes and capabilities. We had a job to do. And, the President streamlined it for us by saying, “Select them from experienced test pilots.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a presidential decision that there be no women in the original first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a decision there wouldn’t be any women. He said, “Select them from the graduates from the Test Pilot Schools.” And there didn’t happen to be any women from the Test Pilot Schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the Mercury capsule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.577574924334144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—category. Now, it turned out Dr. [W. Randolph] Lovelace [II] thought it’d be a good idea to have a woman. And he didn’t talk to me about it, but he did talk to Gilruth. And Gilruth essentially told him what I told you, that this wasn’t a program to equate the sexes and capabilities. We had a job to do. And, the President streamlined it for us by saying, “Select them from experienced test pilots.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, it was a presidential decision that there be no women in the original first—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a decision there wouldn’t be any women. He said, “Select them from the graduates from the Test Pilot Schools.” And there didn’t happen to be any women from the Test Pilot Schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the Mercury capsule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Showed them drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the drawings of the Mercury capsule. And as you said, John Glenn even asked to see it himself. Go ahead, you were going to say something."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.641749915926827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There wasn’t a decision there wouldn’t be any women. He said, “Select them from the graduates from the Test Pilot Schools.” And there didn’t happen to be any women from the Test Pilot Schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the Mercury capsule."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Showed them drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the drawings of the Mercury capsule. And as you said, John Glenn even asked to see it himself. Go ahead, you were going to say something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what one of the—we would spread the drawings out and acquaint them with what at that time was the situation, and ask them if they thought there was any legitimate role for the test pilot experience. A lot depended on how they answered that question. Some would look at it and say, “Uh, I guess not.” Well, others would say, “My God, this is a pioneering venture. Of course.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the answer you were really wanting for that question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.157499906585364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Showed them drawings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You showed them the drawings of the Mercury capsule. And as you said, John Glenn even asked to see it himself. Go ahead, you were going to say something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what one of the—we would spread the drawings out and acquaint them with what at that time was the situation, and ask them if they thought there was any legitimate role for the test pilot experience. A lot depended on how they answered that question. Some would look at it and say, “Uh, I guess not.” Well, others would say, “My God, this is a pioneering venture. Of course.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the answer you were really wanting for that question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just wanted to sense them out. Actually, some of us said, “The only criteria we were using was those commonsense [ones], how you select any pilot for a situation.” Some years later—in fact, about 2 years ago when I was down at Johnson as part of the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel activity—I asked to sit down and chat with the current group of guys who initiate and select the astronauts. And we sat down for an interesting couple of hours with George [W. S.] Abbey and his key guys there and discussed it. And it’s surprising how little [has] changed in the criteria and the manner in which they select these people. Except there were far more highly qualified academic candidates now than we had in those days. Those weren’t even a consideration in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were looking for—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.730555451761515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, what one of the—we would spread the drawings out and acquaint them with what at that time was the situation, and ask them if they thought there was any legitimate role for the test pilot experience. A lot depended on how they answered that question. Some would look at it and say, “Uh, I guess not.” Well, others would say, “My God, this is a pioneering venture. Of course.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was the answer you were really wanting for that question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just wanted to sense them out. Actually, some of us said, “The only criteria we were using was those commonsense [ones], how you select any pilot for a situation.” Some years later—in fact, about 2 years ago when I was down at Johnson as part of the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel activity—I asked to sit down and chat with the current group of guys who initiate and select the astronauts. And we sat down for an interesting couple of hours with George [W. S.] Abbey and his key guys there and discussed it. And it’s surprising how little [has] changed in the criteria and the manner in which they select these people. Except there were far more highly qualified academic candidates now than we had in those days. Those weren’t even a consideration in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were looking for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we weren’t looking for mission specialists. We were looking for pilots really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right; good. When did you know who the first seven would be? And I know this sounds repetitious: But, at what point did you know it? And at what point did you carry that list to Gilruth?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.256172724179462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We just wanted to sense them out. Actually, some of us said, “The only criteria we were using was those commonsense [ones], how you select any pilot for a situation.” Some years later—in fact, about 2 years ago when I was down at Johnson as part of the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel activity—I asked to sit down and chat with the current group of guys who initiate and select the astronauts. And we sat down for an interesting couple of hours with George [W. S.] Abbey and his key guys there and discussed it. And it’s surprising how little [has] changed in the criteria and the manner in which they select these people. Except there were far more highly qualified academic candidates now than we had in those days. Those weren’t even a consideration in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were looking for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we weren’t looking for mission specialists. We were looking for pilots really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right; good. When did you know who the first seven would be? And I know this sounds repetitious: But, at what point did you know it? And at what point did you carry that list to Gilruth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew it after the first 2 weeks I interviewed what my key guys were, providing they didn’t come up with any physical or mental [problems], and some did. I won’t say anymore about that. But those tests did reveal some discrepancies like that. Some medical; some mental. But, for the most part, those were made to screen out stuff that you might not recognize until it was too late in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your favorite? Is that an unfair question?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.729080804643846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we weren’t looking for mission specialists. We were looking for pilots really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right; good. When did you know who the first seven would be? And I know this sounds repetitious: But, at what point did you know it? And at what point did you carry that list to Gilruth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew it after the first 2 weeks I interviewed what my key guys were, providing they didn’t come up with any physical or mental [problems], and some did. I won’t say anymore about that. But those tests did reveal some discrepancies like that. Some medical; some mental. But, for the most part, those were made to screen out stuff that you might not recognize until it was too late in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your favorite? Is that an unfair question?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that’s a very fair question. In fact, I never listed the order of choices of those fellows. But, at the time, we weren’t sure, and I asked, Gilruth and Dr. Dryden if we could have some backup NASA pilots. That didn’t go over too well with the military people, who thought somehow they would be given an unfair advantage. And, I did interview a couple; but none of the pilots at Edwards were interested at the time anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2545342273820514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew it after the first 2 weeks I interviewed what my key guys were, providing they didn’t come up with any physical or mental [problems], and some did. I won’t say anymore about that. But those tests did reveal some discrepancies like that. Some medical; some mental. But, for the most part, those were made to screen out stuff that you might not recognize until it was too late in the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who was your favorite? Is that an unfair question?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that’s a very fair question. In fact, I never listed the order of choices of those fellows. But, at the time, we weren’t sure, and I asked, Gilruth and Dr. Dryden if we could have some backup NASA pilots. That didn’t go over too well with the military people, who thought somehow they would be given an unfair advantage. And, I did interview a couple; but none of the pilots at Edwards were interested at the time anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were part of the experimental test pilot, anti-astronaut syndrome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the Spam in the can and the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.838371363757835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think that’s a very fair question. In fact, I never listed the order of choices of those fellows. But, at the time, we weren’t sure, and I asked, Gilruth and Dr. Dryden if we could have some backup NASA pilots. That didn’t go over too well with the military people, who thought somehow they would be given an unfair advantage. And, I did interview a couple; but none of the pilots at Edwards were interested at the time anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, I remember—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were part of the experimental test pilot, anti-astronaut syndrome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the Spam in the can and the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—flying monkeys, and all those—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.487079293064261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they were part of the experimental test pilot, anti-astronaut syndrome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the Spam in the can and the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—flying monkeys, and all those—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah; yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—disparaging remarks we all heard at the time. Neil [A.] Armstrong was at the Test Pilot School and was flying the X-15 at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.207865881182513, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—flying monkeys, and all those—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah; yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—disparaging remarks we all heard at the time. Neil [A.] Armstrong was at the Test Pilot School and was flying the X-15 at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he even considered in the original group? Or did he come later?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.00873986798057, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah; yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—disparaging remarks we all heard at the time. Neil [A.] Armstrong was at the Test Pilot School and was flying the X-15 at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he even considered in the original group? Or did he come later?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He wasn’t considered in the original group because he was a NASA pilot— active. And, he did have an opportunity to be interviewed, but he declined it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He and Joe [H.] Engle were both in that group, as a matter of fact, at Edwards."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.751357843594747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who was the other one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Joe Engle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, Joe Engle; yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah; yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were—they came later when they realized that this wasn’t going to be a program that would be put in the closet after its completion, and that was the end of space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of it? Was that particular group convinced that it wasn’t going to last? It was just a fad, and it would go away."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.927602276042897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were—they came later when they realized that this wasn’t going to be a program that would be put in the closet after its completion, and that was the end of space."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that part of it? Was that particular group convinced that it wasn’t going to last? It was just a fad, and it would go away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hard to say. Part of it, I think, they began to realize, too, that the Research Airplane Program had come to an end. That the need for another research airplane after the X-15 didn’t exist. So that had a lot to do with their attitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My question—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot to do with the attitude of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Michael Collins, Joe Engle, Neil Armstrong, and quite a few of them came out of that program out there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.490867007460366, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And a lot to do with the attitude of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Michael Collins, Joe Engle, Neil Armstrong, and quite a few of them came out of that program out there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m not sure all of them harbored the same view that some of the group did, about “Don’t be a Spam in the can.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, I think they all saw the beginning of the end—you see, the X-15 in the end was advertising for payloads; not as a research vehicle for flight, but as a vehicle for testing payloads in space. So there was a change in the whole concept of flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s come back to the management table. What kind of discussions were taking place among all of you at that time? You must’ve had some great doubts, along with the great anticipation you had. What were you talking about behind the scenes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.420823466000453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, I think they all saw the beginning of the end—you see, the X-15 in the end was advertising for payloads; not as a research vehicle for flight, but as a vehicle for testing payloads in space. So there was a change in the whole concept of flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s come back to the management table. What kind of discussions were taking place among all of you at that time? You must’ve had some great doubts, along with the great anticipation you had. What were you talking about behind the scenes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean in Project Mercury?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a great concern that if you had a catastrophe. There was a lot of talk about having a risk assessment analysis made. And, we were required to fly an unmanned vehicle and the animal before we had a manned flight. But if you try and assess the relative risk of flying unmanned and flying with a man, just how you put the input of the man in there is a very subjective judgment. And in the end, none of the mathematical attempts to do that were successful, in the sense that, with so many sources of possible error, you might have a .3, a .4 success for an unmanned vehicle. A .3/.4 batting average [in baseball] you’d think was great, but in space it’s terrible. But on the other hand, there are certain things you could do with a man’s presence that might up that to the 8/9 category; 8.9. But, who would believe that kind of a back-of-the-envelope computation? So the best thing you do is scrutinize the engineering and production to the best of your ability and go with it. And that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You bite the bullet and trot on off."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.13424829555606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean in Project Mercury?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a great concern that if you had a catastrophe. There was a lot of talk about having a risk assessment analysis made. And, we were required to fly an unmanned vehicle and the animal before we had a manned flight. But if you try and assess the relative risk of flying unmanned and flying with a man, just how you put the input of the man in there is a very subjective judgment. And in the end, none of the mathematical attempts to do that were successful, in the sense that, with so many sources of possible error, you might have a .3, a .4 success for an unmanned vehicle. A .3/.4 batting average [in baseball] you’d think was great, but in space it’s terrible. But on the other hand, there are certain things you could do with a man’s presence that might up that to the 8/9 category; 8.9. But, who would believe that kind of a back-of-the-envelope computation? So the best thing you do is scrutinize the engineering and production to the best of your ability and go with it. And that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You bite the bullet and trot on off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s pretty much what you still have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t the man your weakest link, the least understood element in the equation? The man was the hardest to define, wasn’t he?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 19.038053661728952, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a great concern that if you had a catastrophe. There was a lot of talk about having a risk assessment analysis made. And, we were required to fly an unmanned vehicle and the animal before we had a manned flight. But if you try and assess the relative risk of flying unmanned and flying with a man, just how you put the input of the man in there is a very subjective judgment. And in the end, none of the mathematical attempts to do that were successful, in the sense that, with so many sources of possible error, you might have a .3, a .4 success for an unmanned vehicle. A .3/.4 batting average [in baseball] you’d think was great, but in space it’s terrible. But on the other hand, there are certain things you could do with a man’s presence that might up that to the 8/9 category; 8.9. But, who would believe that kind of a back-of-the-envelope computation? So the best thing you do is scrutinize the engineering and production to the best of your ability and go with it. And that’s what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You bite the bullet and trot on off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s pretty much what you still have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t the man your weakest link, the least understood element in the equation? The man was the hardest to define, wasn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, hard to define because you never knew what accidental event might take place that might require his judgment. And that did happen on a couple of flights, finally, you know. And, they weren’t planned. Gilruth had a saying. He said, “We try and plan for the unknowns. It’s the unknown unknowns that you have concerns about.” And that’s what you’re talking about, when you’re talking about risk assessment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, at the same time, working with the physicians who were trying to say, “Here’s what we expect the human body to do under these circumstances.” Was that giving you fits?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.48672629080995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s pretty much what you still have to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wasn’t the man your weakest link, the least understood element in the equation? The man was the hardest to define, wasn’t he?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, hard to define because you never knew what accidental event might take place that might require his judgment. And that did happen on a couple of flights, finally, you know. And, they weren’t planned. Gilruth had a saying. He said, “We try and plan for the unknowns. It’s the unknown unknowns that you have concerns about.” And that’s what you’re talking about, when you’re talking about risk assessment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, at the same time, working with the physicians who were trying to say, “Here’s what we expect the human body to do under these circumstances.” Was that giving you fits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, there was a concern that there wasn’t enough work done with animals before we sent a man up. There was a group under Dr. Hartcherig, I believe his name was—a presidential group—[that] came down and went over the whole medical activity with our medical people. They went out to Edwards and looked at the flight records of the physiological inputs for flying, then came back and they made a recommendation that I remember, here at Headquarters one Saturday morning, that the Redstone Program would be all right. That’s a short-duration flight. But before you fly a man in orbit, they proposed having a centrifuge program at Johnsville with some primates that would be tested, what they say, “over the hill.” And that was just a blockbuster. That would have put the program back, I don’t know how long. But fortunately, about a few days later, [Yuri] Gagarin went into space, and that was the end of it. But the lingering doubts are still there, you know. And it turned out Glenn did all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His eyeballs didn’t float out of his head. He could swallow; he could breathe; he could function."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.096362545344387, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, hard to define because you never knew what accidental event might take place that might require his judgment. And that did happen on a couple of flights, finally, you know. And, they weren’t planned. Gilruth had a saying. He said, “We try and plan for the unknowns. It’s the unknown unknowns that you have concerns about.” And that’s what you’re talking about, when you’re talking about risk assessment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you, at the same time, working with the physicians who were trying to say, “Here’s what we expect the human body to do under these circumstances.” Was that giving you fits?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, there was a concern that there wasn’t enough work done with animals before we sent a man up. There was a group under Dr. Hartcherig, I believe his name was—a presidential group—[that] came down and went over the whole medical activity with our medical people. They went out to Edwards and looked at the flight records of the physiological inputs for flying, then came back and they made a recommendation that I remember, here at Headquarters one Saturday morning, that the Redstone Program would be all right. That’s a short-duration flight. But before you fly a man in orbit, they proposed having a centrifuge program at Johnsville with some primates that would be tested, what they say, “over the hill.” And that was just a blockbuster. That would have put the program back, I don’t know how long. But fortunately, about a few days later, [Yuri] Gagarin went into space, and that was the end of it. But the lingering doubts are still there, you know. And it turned out Glenn did all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His eyeballs didn’t float out of his head. He could swallow; he could breathe; he could function."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember him saying all of those things that they thought might happen to him. But, everything was just great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.884847272604873, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, there was a concern that there wasn’t enough work done with animals before we sent a man up. There was a group under Dr. Hartcherig, I believe his name was—a presidential group—[that] came down and went over the whole medical activity with our medical people. They went out to Edwards and looked at the flight records of the physiological inputs for flying, then came back and they made a recommendation that I remember, here at Headquarters one Saturday morning, that the Redstone Program would be all right. That’s a short-duration flight. But before you fly a man in orbit, they proposed having a centrifuge program at Johnsville with some primates that would be tested, what they say, “over the hill.” And that was just a blockbuster. That would have put the program back, I don’t know how long. But fortunately, about a few days later, [Yuri] Gagarin went into space, and that was the end of it. But the lingering doubts are still there, you know. And it turned out Glenn did all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "His eyeballs didn’t float out of his head. He could swallow; he could breathe; he could function."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember him saying all of those things that they thought might happen to him. But, everything was just great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after Mercury was under way and before President [John F.] Kennedy set his goal of a landing on the Moon inside the decade, you were involved even in the early discussions of Project Apollo Moon missions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.872052525116523, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember him saying all of those things that they thought might happen to him. But, everything was just great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after Mercury was under way and before President [John F.] Kennedy set his goal of a landing on the Moon inside the decade, you were involved even in the early discussions of Project Apollo Moon missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a number of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.857836139018357, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after Mercury was under way and before President [John F.] Kennedy set his goal of a landing on the Moon inside the decade, you were involved even in the early discussions of Project Apollo Moon missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a number of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—studies going on, not only at the Space Task Group but Langley had a group under Clint [Clinton E.] Brown. And Clint Brown’s group was the one that really concentrated on a circumlunar flight with lunar capsules landing from orbit around the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right from the beginning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.06426237668706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had a number of—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—studies going on, not only at the Space Task Group but Langley had a group under Clint [Clinton E.] Brown. And Clint Brown’s group was the one that really concentrated on a circumlunar flight with lunar capsules landing from orbit around the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right from the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were one of the first to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, that was—what?—1961? 1962?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 24.515847085207845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—studies going on, not only at the Space Task Group but Langley had a group under Clint [Clinton E.] Brown. And Clint Brown’s group was the one that really concentrated on a circumlunar flight with lunar capsules landing from orbit around the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right from the beginning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were one of the first to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At that point, that was—what?—1961? 1962?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "19—1960, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "1960. That early on? Did you support that? Or did you think of doing it from a Space Station first? What was your position at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.304141266892, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gemini kind of came into the picture with a realization that we had no rendezvous experience. And, so the Gemini Program really was sandwiched in between Mercury and Apollo; and we learned a lot about the rendezvous activity from Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it got its start—Gemini—apparently, the seeds were planted for Gemini, it got started in that briefing on lunar orbit rendezvous, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That could be. I couldn’t swear for certain that that’s how it came about. But there was a feeling that there ought to be something, some more experience beside Mercury into a more useful-type capsule. Gemini was a two-man capsule."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, what were your original visions of Apollo then? If you were thinking about it that early on, what concept were you thinking of? Before the lunar orbit rendezvous concept?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably, a lunar orbit mission as opposed to a space station. For instance, Clint Brown at Langley told me he had come to the conclusion that just a space station after Mercury wouldn’t be considered a really a big enough advancement in activity. And so he started his people working, with Thompson’s approval, on not only a lunar orbit rendezvous but on lunar landing. They had a contract with Chance-Vought [Aircraft Corporation] people at the time; and one of their people down there worked on a similar thing, I think, on the contract to Langley. So the thing kind of kept pushing; but by no means was the decision made at that time, because there was still a lot of interest in the brute force method of getting to the Moon. And, the lunar orbit rendezvous mode really is the one that survived the contests."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were trying—you were kicking this around in 1960."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.163510418283119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, Gilruth wasn’t present at that meeting that Dryden had with the President and his staff. And, it’s a mystery to me just what convincing argument persuaded the President that that would be an undertaking that was not only worthwhile but had a strong success—a big capability behind it. It’s always puzzled me, because we hadn’t thought about landing so much on the Moon as just studying about it. But here’s now a national commitment to do it. Now without that national commitment, there’s a good possibility we never would have done it, at least in that time frame."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he made his announcement right after Alan [B.] Shepard [Jr.] made the initial Mercury lift-off."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That has always seemed like, Boy, that’s a pretty big step from one end to the other so quickly. But your guys had numbers to show him; or at least, they had numbers behind them that convinced them that they could give him a winning argument, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know who the prime speaker was. Might have been Abe Silverstein, I don’t know. I know Dryden was in there. But the President, you know, he must’ve been offered other options like space station, which as Clint Brown had concluded long before that was not a sufficiently bold step to attract the attention of the world, which was what the President wanted to do to the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s focus on you for a moment. How did you feel that night when you heard him make that speech and out of the blue say, “I believe that within this decade we should land a man on the Moon and return him safely to Earth.”"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.40390046475902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That has always seemed like, Boy, that’s a pretty big step from one end to the other so quickly. But your guys had numbers to show him; or at least, they had numbers behind them that convinced them that they could give him a winning argument, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know who the prime speaker was. Might have been Abe Silverstein, I don’t know. I know Dryden was in there. But the President, you know, he must’ve been offered other options like space station, which as Clint Brown had concluded long before that was not a sufficiently bold step to attract the attention of the world, which was what the President wanted to do to the Russians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let’s focus on you for a moment. How did you feel that night when you heard him make that speech and out of the blue say, “I believe that within this decade we should land a man on the Moon and return him safely to Earth.”"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was kind of flabbergasted myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.313457363900026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was kind of flabbergasted myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in— you mean, physically?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I guess, over at my office at Langley. But once the announcement was made and the objective clearly stated, that cleared the air and you knew right then how to proceed, with what direction you were going, and put all your energy in that direction. There weren’t a lot of other options. And finally when the decision was made to lunar orbit rendezvous, that cleared the air; that cleared the air."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It pretty well laid out your course for you, didn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.014952626555583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in— you mean, physically?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I guess, over at my office at Langley. But once the announcement was made and the objective clearly stated, that cleared the air and you knew right then how to proceed, with what direction you were going, and put all your energy in that direction. There weren’t a lot of other options. And finally when the decision was made to lunar orbit rendezvous, that cleared the air; that cleared the air."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It pretty well laid out your course for you, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the Saturn V at that stage? Was it still just a gleam in somebody’s eye?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 14.46105847395065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, I guess, over at my office at Langley. But once the announcement was made and the objective clearly stated, that cleared the air and you knew right then how to proceed, with what direction you were going, and put all your energy in that direction. There weren’t a lot of other options. And finally when the decision was made to lunar orbit rendezvous, that cleared the air; that cleared the air."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It pretty well laid out your course for you, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the Saturn V at that stage? Was it still just a gleam in somebody’s eye?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the original Saturn 1 was a Redstone research and development program, really, for multi-engine stuff. The Saturn came in when the decision was made to go to lunar orbit rendezvous and you knew what kind of a vehicle was required. It was something to put a 100,000-pound capsule up there in orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely amazing. Did you feel the technology of the time was up to that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.680319103642777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the original Saturn 1 was a Redstone research and development program, really, for multi-engine stuff. The Saturn came in when the decision was made to go to lunar orbit rendezvous and you knew what kind of a vehicle was required. It was something to put a 100,000-pound capsule up there in orbit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely amazing. Did you feel the technology of the time was up to that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the main concern was really the Saturns. You look back, and that’s a tremendously complex motor and rocket. And with 200,000 chances of something going wrong, with all the interfaces and mechanisms at play there, Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] and the contractors did one hell of a job. And, we had a lot of luck, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it didn’t— wouldn’t have taken much to have something go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I heard Neil Armstrong one time say that today they’re shocked when the shuttle doesn’t work every time, but they were always surprised when the Saturn V did. It always performed for them, and they were always shocked about that, too. Was it that fragile a system? I mean, it was very complex, and you were pushing the edge of the technology—weren’t you?—with that thing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.867021226269753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the main concern was really the Saturns. You look back, and that’s a tremendously complex motor and rocket. And with 200,000 chances of something going wrong, with all the interfaces and mechanisms at play there, Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama] and the contractors did one hell of a job. And, we had a lot of luck, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it didn’t— wouldn’t have taken much to have something go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I heard Neil Armstrong one time say that today they’re shocked when the shuttle doesn’t work every time, but they were always surprised when the Saturn V did. It always performed for them, and they were always shocked about that, too. Was it that fragile a system? I mean, it was very complex, and you were pushing the edge of the technology—weren’t you?—with that thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Marshall people felt that the technology was sufficiently advanced so they could put it all together. And fortunately for the nation, they had that conviction, because they sure did it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They reached out and pulled things in, that’s for sure. You also worked with the unmanned Moon probes at the same time. That was another part of your—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.741134695855282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, it didn’t— wouldn’t have taken much to have something go wrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I heard Neil Armstrong one time say that today they’re shocked when the shuttle doesn’t work every time, but they were always surprised when the Saturn V did. It always performed for them, and they were always shocked about that, too. Was it that fragile a system? I mean, it was very complex, and you were pushing the edge of the technology—weren’t you?—with that thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Marshall people felt that the technology was sufficiently advanced so they could put it all together. And fortunately for the nation, they had that conviction, because they sure did it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They reached out and pulled things in, that’s for sure. You also worked with the unmanned Moon probes at the same time. That was another part of your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar orbiter was at Langley at that time when I was deputy there. And that was at—Langley was the Lead Center on that. And, that was, you know, a precursor to the Apollo Program in the sense that we felt like we needed more photographic information to be able to select the landing. And the lunar orbiter was a very successful program. Primitive technology by today’s standards. I have a hanging on my wall at home of the first picture of the Earth taken from the Moon. And I have to tell you that’s what it is, because you look at it and the kinematics of the situation were pretty poor in those days compared to later Viking and the recent Voyager, you know. A tremendous difference in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of a white blur, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.712371884283646, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the Marshall people felt that the technology was sufficiently advanced so they could put it all together. And fortunately for the nation, they had that conviction, because they sure did it!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They reached out and pulled things in, that’s for sure. You also worked with the unmanned Moon probes at the same time. That was another part of your—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar orbiter was at Langley at that time when I was deputy there. And that was at—Langley was the Lead Center on that. And, that was, you know, a precursor to the Apollo Program in the sense that we felt like we needed more photographic information to be able to select the landing. And the lunar orbiter was a very successful program. Primitive technology by today’s standards. I have a hanging on my wall at home of the first picture of the Earth taken from the Moon. And I have to tell you that’s what it is, because you look at it and the kinematics of the situation were pretty poor in those days compared to later Viking and the recent Voyager, you know. A tremendous difference in—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was kind of a white blur, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—technology."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. What was Moon ball?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.951127413283464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moon—?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Moon ball."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Moon ball?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You got me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I thought you were a proponent of a system of pounding spacecraft into the surface to test the surface strength."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.06053143111586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I didn’t recognize it by that name."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, we called them “lunar penetrators.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, there were a couple of projects that Langley proposed on that, just to see if you could find out the depth of the lunar dust. Some like Professor Gold at Cornell, he thought [that if] an astronaut [stepped] on that [it’s] got to be like quicksand and [he’d] sink. So when opinions like that circulate, you think of some way of maybe finding out whether it’s true or not. And the penetrators were part of that system. But I’m not sure they were ever really accomplished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think they just skipped on past them, and went ahead with the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.400590479017623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, we called them “lunar penetrators.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, there were a couple of projects that Langley proposed on that, just to see if you could find out the depth of the lunar dust. Some like Professor Gold at Cornell, he thought [that if] an astronaut [stepped] on that [it’s] got to be like quicksand and [he’d] sink. So when opinions like that circulate, you think of some way of maybe finding out whether it’s true or not. And the penetrators were part of that system. But I’m not sure they were ever really accomplished."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think they just skipped on past them, and went ahead with the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think one of the Surveyors went in and—those JPL [Jet Propulsion Laboratory] programs helped to alleviate concerns of that type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. The Manned Spacecraft Center was designated for Houston in April 1962. This momentum and this path that was laid out for you was beginning to jell very rapidly at that time. And, Axel T. Mattson, Assistant Chief of Full-Scale Research, was sent from Langley by Floyd Thompson to be a liaison. He was to report to you, I believe. Mattson, in an interview, said that he was really a spy for Langley. Is that true? And, why did Langley need a spy in Houston, if so?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.852142171951872, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. I think after lunar orbiter, I became convinced big programs like that are a drain on a Center. Because you siphon people off, and after the program’s on, it’s hard to get them back into a research mode."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Well, wasn’t it Mattson who introduced John Houbolt in Houston with his lunar orbit concept? Was—didn’t he have something to do with Houbolt coming down there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, oh, I doubt that, because Houbolt was involved with the Space Task Group when they were still at Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before they went down there to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You pulled a coup with Mattson, though, on the water drop test of the Apollo spacecraft, didn’t you? You guys went ahead and did a few tests of your own that really helped out in that respect."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.570545891298607, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is before they went down there to Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. You pulled a coup with Mattson, though, on the water drop test of the Apollo spacecraft, didn’t you? You guys went ahead and did a few tests of your own that really helped out in that respect."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, using the tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tank, yeah. Those are the kind of things I mean. We had enough and Johnson would keep getting new people in, too; and sometime they don’t realize how a research center can be helped to utilize—to solve some of the problems. So, it was kind of an education process for me, too, to spread Langley’s capability down there among the people who weren’t so familiar with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back to Washington, then, as Deputy Associate Administrator for Manned Space Flight, you made some adjustments in the way the Centers were used, though, didn’t you? For instance, Houston was named Lead Center on various projects. Langley was named Lead on others."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 17.30060654588734, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, using the tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A tank, yeah. Those are the kind of things I mean. We had enough and Johnson would keep getting new people in, too; and sometime they don’t realize how a research center can be helped to utilize—to solve some of the problems. So, it was kind of an education process for me, too, to spread Langley’s capability down there among the people who weren’t so familiar with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back to Washington, then, as Deputy Associate Administrator for Manned Space Flight, you made some adjustments in the way the Centers were used, though, didn’t you? For instance, Houston was named Lead Center on various projects. Langley was named Lead on others."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t until the Shuttle Program that I got involved again really with that. And I was the first Acting Director of that program. And the whole question of management came up. And, there were various schemes proposed for this thing. But I felt that the important thing to the Shuttle Program was the end product itself, [which] was the shuttle itself, the vehicle going in orbit, and that everything should be aimed in that direction. And unlike the Apollo Program, where we had a Spacecraft Center report to Headquarters, and a Launch Vehicle Center report at Headquarters, and a Rocket Group report to Headquarters—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Watch your microphone."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.963711785046101, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t until the Shuttle Program that I got involved again really with that. And I was the first Acting Director of that program. And the whole question of management came up. And, there were various schemes proposed for this thing. But I felt that the important thing to the Shuttle Program was the end product itself, [which] was the shuttle itself, the vehicle going in orbit, and that everything should be aimed in that direction. And unlike the Apollo Program, where we had a Spacecraft Center report to Headquarters, and a Launch Vehicle Center report at Headquarters, and a Rocket Group report to Headquarters—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Watch your microphone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—that became very cumbersome. And, the system of engineering, the large part of Apollo, was done by Bellcomm. By the time the shuttle came around, we now have three Centers: very well experienced, capable of doing systems engineering on their own. And I felt [that] Houston in particular with the corps of flight people—aircraft people—not only from Langley but from industry, from Canada, were ideal people to handle this part of the program. Instead of trying to build up another large group at Headquarters, where it’s difficult to maintain technical competence for long periods, I conceived an idea based on my Langley experience with lunar orbiter of having Johnson as the Lead Center with a Headquarters staff here doing the job of policy-making, and having the launch activity and the booster activity handled by Marshall and Kennedy under this Lead Center concept. And it worked great, for about 8 or 9 years. You get on to a Level I/II, meeting, you couldn’t tell where those people came from unless you knew who they were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it really fell apart mostly after the first several flights of the Shuttle, when key people left, new people came in at Headquarters, the Centers, and they didn’t adhere to the rigor of the management structure that we had laid out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s go back. You were Deputy Associate Administrator for Manned Space Flight at the time of the first lunar landings. Am I correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.293013094495668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—that became very cumbersome. And, the system of engineering, the large part of Apollo, was done by Bellcomm. By the time the shuttle came around, we now have three Centers: very well experienced, capable of doing systems engineering on their own. And I felt [that] Houston in particular with the corps of flight people—aircraft people—not only from Langley but from industry, from Canada, were ideal people to handle this part of the program. Instead of trying to build up another large group at Headquarters, where it’s difficult to maintain technical competence for long periods, I conceived an idea based on my Langley experience with lunar orbiter of having Johnson as the Lead Center with a Headquarters staff here doing the job of policy-making, and having the launch activity and the booster activity handled by Marshall and Kennedy under this Lead Center concept. And it worked great, for about 8 or 9 years. You get on to a Level I/II, meeting, you couldn’t tell where those people came from unless you knew who they were!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It did work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it really fell apart mostly after the first several flights of the Shuttle, when key people left, new people came in at Headquarters, the Centers, and they didn’t adhere to the rigor of the management structure that we had laid out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s go back. You were Deputy Associate Administrator for Manned Space Flight at the time of the first lunar landings. Am I correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I had a dual role there. I kept that activity; but for 3 years my main job was getting the shuttle under way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that period, though, you had to be dividing your attention. And, what was it like around here, at the time of the first landings? Was it triumph? Was it fear? Was it perplexity over this complicated thing that’s going on? What was the ongoing tempo of Headquarters?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.65890343832852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it really fell apart mostly after the first several flights of the Shuttle, when key people left, new people came in at Headquarters, the Centers, and they didn’t adhere to the rigor of the management structure that we had laid out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s go back. You were Deputy Associate Administrator for Manned Space Flight at the time of the first lunar landings. Am I correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I had a dual role there. I kept that activity; but for 3 years my main job was getting the shuttle under way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that period, though, you had to be dividing your attention. And, what was it like around here, at the time of the first landings? Was it triumph? Was it fear? Was it perplexity over this complicated thing that’s going on? What was the ongoing tempo of Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re talking about Apollo now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, during Apollo. Yeah. What was it like at that historic moment? I mean, you had a grip [on], or at least you were a part of, something that will affect mankind as long as it’s on this planet."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.732114931476133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I had a dual role there. I kept that activity; but for 3 years my main job was getting the shuttle under way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that period, though, you had to be dividing your attention. And, what was it like around here, at the time of the first landings? Was it triumph? Was it fear? Was it perplexity over this complicated thing that’s going on? What was the ongoing tempo of Headquarters?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re talking about Apollo now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, during Apollo. Yeah. What was it like at that historic moment? I mean, you had a grip [on], or at least you were a part of, something that will affect mankind as long as it’s on this planet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in fact, I think I was at home at the time President [Richard M.] Nixon spoke. And we had a television screen with Nixon on there, speaking to Armstrong, I guess it was. And I remember taking my camera and getting a picture of that. But, just quiet exuberation, I guess. And, [Dr.] Tom [Thomas O.] Paine, of course, was the Administrator at the time. He arranged to have this big celebration dinner out there in Los Angeles. And I remember asking at the time, I said, “Aren’t you somewhat askance at the poor public relations that will come from NASA spending all this time and effort on a celebration way out there?” And his attitude was, “Look, this is a tremendous accomplishment for the world.” And, he sees nothing harmful in having the Agency involved, [to] get some benefit and enjoy a moment of celebration. So that’s how he justified the big state affair we had out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take to soak in exactly the enormity of what you guys had accomplished? How did it—was it there with you all along? Or were you apprehensive? What happened afterwards? Did it—? My Lord, it was a—it was an amazing accomplishment in the history of humankind."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.903845594414978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in fact, I think I was at home at the time President [Richard M.] Nixon spoke. And we had a television screen with Nixon on there, speaking to Armstrong, I guess it was. And I remember taking my camera and getting a picture of that. But, just quiet exuberation, I guess. And, [Dr.] Tom [Thomas O.] Paine, of course, was the Administrator at the time. He arranged to have this big celebration dinner out there in Los Angeles. And I remember asking at the time, I said, “Aren’t you somewhat askance at the poor public relations that will come from NASA spending all this time and effort on a celebration way out there?” And his attitude was, “Look, this is a tremendous accomplishment for the world.” And, he sees nothing harmful in having the Agency involved, [to] get some benefit and enjoy a moment of celebration. So that’s how he justified the big state affair we had out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take to soak in exactly the enormity of what you guys had accomplished? How did it—was it there with you all along? Or were you apprehensive? What happened afterwards? Did it—? My Lord, it was a—it was an amazing accomplishment in the history of humankind."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Apollo 13 was a very sobering experience. And, it can happen once, it could happen again. Before you take all the steps, you know how to avoid it. There was never a nonanxious moment during the launch. Or even during the activity going to the Moon and coming back or landing on it. You were always apprehensive about some possibility because there’s no escape from catastrophe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unlike Mir, which has the lifeboat on it, you know. While there have certainly been exciting moments up there, there’s a lifeboat. Apollo 13 didn’t have a lifeboat, and—hard to say. You just have to live through it. But, we were very lucky to come through without some fatality."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was such an accelerated time. Does it all seem like a blur now?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.11538399379442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Apollo 13 was a very sobering experience. And, it can happen once, it could happen again. Before you take all the steps, you know how to avoid it. There was never a nonanxious moment during the launch. Or even during the activity going to the Moon and coming back or landing on it. You were always apprehensive about some possibility because there’s no escape from catastrophe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unlike Mir, which has the lifeboat on it, you know. While there have certainly been exciting moments up there, there’s a lifeboat. Apollo 13 didn’t have a lifeboat, and—hard to say. You just have to live through it. But, we were very lucky to come through without some fatality."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was such an accelerated time. Does it all seem like a blur now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seem what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it all seem like a blur? It was so compressed and so accelerated in those years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.350426659771578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Unlike Mir, which has the lifeboat on it, you know. While there have certainly been exciting moments up there, there’s a lifeboat. Apollo 13 didn’t have a lifeboat, and—hard to say. You just have to live through it. But, we were very lucky to come through without some fatality."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was such an accelerated time. Does it all seem like a blur now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seem what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it all seem like a blur? It was so compressed and so accelerated in those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it’s kind of interesting to see a revival of interest with the recent movies. Of course, the public is so attuned to melodrama on the TV now that few would realize that Apollo 13 wasn’t quite the way it shows in the movie, you know. And The Right Stuff wasn’t quite the way the astronauts behaved. And, there weren’t quite the arguments as intense as they’re portrayed in some of those films."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re human beings, with a certain amount of self-concern. That brings back another question. The astronauts were often given the credit for being involved in engineering/technical decisions. Did they actually take part in that kind of thing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.722696288635087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Seem what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Does it all seem like a blur? It was so compressed and so accelerated in those years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it’s kind of interesting to see a revival of interest with the recent movies. Of course, the public is so attuned to melodrama on the TV now that few would realize that Apollo 13 wasn’t quite the way it shows in the movie, you know. And The Right Stuff wasn’t quite the way the astronauts behaved. And, there weren’t quite the arguments as intense as they’re portrayed in some of those films."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They’re human beings, with a certain amount of self-concern. That brings back another question. The astronauts were often given the credit for being involved in engineering/technical decisions. Did they actually take part in that kind of thing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they took part as a team. They were assigned certain responsibilities as a team. But, as far as any one of them coming up with a singular idea that dominated the completion of that activity, I can’t think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. space shuttle. Here came the shuttle, after a certain hiatus after the Apollo-Soyuz flights. Of course, space shuttle was under design for quite a long time up to that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 20.915555995481004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Phase B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several Phase B extensions. We had something like 20-odd different configurations—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—going through the mill before we decided on what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like anything better than the one you got?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.683951106090003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several Phase B extensions. We had something like 20-odd different configurations—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—going through the mill before we decided on what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like anything better than the one you got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, look around. All the attempts to duplicate it with another vehicle have fallen through. Japan, England, Germany, France, Russia . It’s a pretty good machine; and I think it’s going to be around for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think that we should have built the space station concurrently with the space shuttle to give it a beginning and a end? A place to go, a place to come back? That was the original concept, as a service truck for a space station. But then suddenly it was given—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.426612340100004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "—going through the mill before we decided on what to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you like anything better than the one you got?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, look around. All the attempts to duplicate it with another vehicle have fallen through. Japan, England, Germany, France, Russia . It’s a pretty good machine; and I think it’s going to be around for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think that we should have built the space station concurrently with the space shuttle to give it a beginning and a end? A place to go, a place to come back? That was the original concept, as a service truck for a space station. But then suddenly it was given—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you have to hark back to the Presidential Study of ’69: the grandiose, unitary plan idea where you build a shuttle, then build a station, and then a way station to the Moon, and then a way station to Mars. The grand plan that was conceived at that time where the shuttle was simply the first step. But it turned out it was the only step that survived, because the rest of the plan was so mind-boggling in the financial implications that the whole thing was dropped except for the shuttle. That was the first step. As time went on, people forget that the shuttle was simply supposed to be a first-step transportation system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still a supporter of space station? Or do you think we should go on to the Moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.251791489000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, look around. All the attempts to duplicate it with another vehicle have fallen through. Japan, England, Germany, France, Russia . It’s a pretty good machine; and I think it’s going to be around for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you think that we should have built the space station concurrently with the space shuttle to give it a beginning and a end? A place to go, a place to come back? That was the original concept, as a service truck for a space station. But then suddenly it was given—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you have to hark back to the Presidential Study of ’69: the grandiose, unitary plan idea where you build a shuttle, then build a station, and then a way station to the Moon, and then a way station to Mars. The grand plan that was conceived at that time where the shuttle was simply the first step. But it turned out it was the only step that survived, because the rest of the plan was so mind-boggling in the financial implications that the whole thing was dropped except for the shuttle. That was the first step. As time went on, people forget that the shuttle was simply supposed to be a first-step transportation system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still a supporter of space station? Or do you think we should go on to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t see any point in really going on to the Moon. We’re going to learn a lot from the space station, just as we’ve learned a lot from the Mir. And, going on to the Moon or Mars, until, in my judgment—until there’s [an] expeditious way to get to Mars, the idea of a 9 months’ trip out there and back is an unreasonable thing to expect to undertake, particularly in a zero-g environment. Now they’d get to Mars, and you know what kind of condition they’d be in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re convinced, then, that more time on space station is going to be profitable for us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.168657210000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think you have to hark back to the Presidential Study of ’69: the grandiose, unitary plan idea where you build a shuttle, then build a station, and then a way station to the Moon, and then a way station to Mars. The grand plan that was conceived at that time where the shuttle was simply the first step. But it turned out it was the only step that survived, because the rest of the plan was so mind-boggling in the financial implications that the whole thing was dropped except for the shuttle. That was the first step. As time went on, people forget that the shuttle was simply supposed to be a first-step transportation system."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still a supporter of space station? Or do you think we should go on to the Moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t see any point in really going on to the Moon. We’re going to learn a lot from the space station, just as we’ve learned a lot from the Mir. And, going on to the Moon or Mars, until, in my judgment—until there’s [an] expeditious way to get to Mars, the idea of a 9 months’ trip out there and back is an unreasonable thing to expect to undertake, particularly in a zero-g environment. Now they’d get to Mars, and you know what kind of condition they’d be in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re convinced, then, that more time on space station is going to be profitable for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. Now, furthermore, it’s an international venture. Sure is a lot better than trying to choose up sides in a Cold War. And funding all the necessary defense activities that might be needed by different nations and whatnot. Have them spend a little money on the space station; they’d cooperate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you’ve done to me all through this interview, you anticipated my next question. You’re satisfied with the Russian arrangement, then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 20.187396900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t see any point in really going on to the Moon. We’re going to learn a lot from the space station, just as we’ve learned a lot from the Mir. And, going on to the Moon or Mars, until, in my judgment—until there’s [an] expeditious way to get to Mars, the idea of a 9 months’ trip out there and back is an unreasonable thing to expect to undertake, particularly in a zero-g environment. Now they’d get to Mars, and you know what kind of condition they’d be in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re convinced, then, that more time on space station is going to be profitable for us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think so. Now, furthermore, it’s an international venture. Sure is a lot better than trying to choose up sides in a Cold War. And funding all the necessary defense activities that might be needed by different nations and whatnot. Have them spend a little money on the space station; they’d cooperate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you’ve done to me all through this interview, you anticipated my next question. You’re satisfied with the Russian arrangement, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it’s a bold arrangement. I was a little apprehensive at first. But as time has gone on, and the experience on the Mir has convinced, I’m sure, the Houston people that the Russians are pretty thorough in what they do. The idea of calling the Mir a bunch of trash is an uninformed opinion. You know, it’s more like a ship that’s carried with it all it needs to repair as opposed to the shuttle, which if something goes wrong you wait until you come home and fix it on the ground. But not a year-long space station. So we’re learning a lot about how to anticipate problems on a space station already by our experience with the Mir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you retired from NASA in 1976, you became a consultant to government and industry. What groups were you involved with? And how did you maintain your involvement with the space program? I know you’ve never—it’s your first love, and you’ve never given it up."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Favorite moment. Aeronautic-wise, the period between World War II and Korea probably, that saw the evolution of the modern jet fighters and the close involvement I was able to have with both the Navy and the Air Force, was a very satisfactory period, when you can see the things you are doing translated into actual use. The F8U was a prime example of that. Conrad Lau, who was the Vought engineer, died at a young age, but Connie spent days with us down there with new innovations: in-board ailerons, leading-edge chord extensions, always were the first on an airplane. And he was able to get them translated from the experience in the wind tunnel out to the airplane; and I remember going out there on some of the first flights where they were flight testing. And to see that carried through is a tremendous satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was a different time. As you said early in this interview, you could make a decision and you could go do it. It’s not like modern government today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right—hard to do it. On the Apollo/Mercury Programs, I guess I’m always satisfied I did a good job on the astronaut selection, and the experience there will be with me for a long time. The shuttle? My main satisfaction is the management system that works so well and its development; and which has been proved by the people involved through all these years, as satisfactory. IDA? I was instrumental in having certain things. First, that we were able to make a case for eliminating the insertion of payloads before they were completed on the pad; things like that. And I don’t know what else is involved here, except that my involvement with the people and my satisfaction I have in appointing certain people who keep getting recognized and supporting them to do the job they’re asked to do; great satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets along the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets along the way?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right—hard to do it. On the Apollo/Mercury Programs, I guess I’m always satisfied I did a good job on the astronaut selection, and the experience there will be with me for a long time. The shuttle? My main satisfaction is the management system that works so well and its development; and which has been proved by the people involved through all these years, as satisfactory. IDA? I was instrumental in having certain things. First, that we were able to make a case for eliminating the insertion of payloads before they were completed on the pad; things like that. And I don’t know what else is involved here, except that my involvement with the people and my satisfaction I have in appointing certain people who keep getting recognized and supporting them to do the job they’re asked to do; great satisfaction."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets along the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets along the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of anything that I would really put out as a regretful stage. Except you grow older, and time passes you on, and you have to let it go to younger people and carry on. But you can follow it with the same enthusiasm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful. How important is this space endeavor to this country and to the world, Mr. Donlan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00127:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Excuse me?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any regrets along the way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can’t think of anything that I would really put out as a regretful stage. Except you grow older, and time passes you on, and you have to let it go to younger people and carry on. But you can follow it with the same enthusiasm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful. How important is this space endeavor to this country and to the world, Mr. Donlan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, people don’t realize how much of their everyday life they owe to the space and the Defense Department activity that grew out of the research activities needed to support those ventures. You know, GPS [Global Positioning System] is a prime example. And the television itself and the communication problem. We never would have had Apollo if we hadn’t been pioneering a way to communicate quickly, instantly with tubes, in those galvanized efforts to assure that technology was ready when we needed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you’ve been right there in the middle of all of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00003:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 6.5561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was no longer working on the Shuttle Program. I was assigned to Space Station. They did pull some people in from other parts of the Center that weren’t working on it. One of the men in the Space Station Project Office was pulled off to work on one of the teams, but I wasn’t involved in it. I had worked fairly closely with J.R., Judy [Judith A.] Resnik, because she and Steve [Steven A.] Hawley had been the Astronaut Office designees to follow training, the development, and keep track of everything. So I had worked with her and talked with her quite a bit. And Dick [Francis R.] Scobee and El [Ellison S.] Onizuka were both on the Astronaut Support Team at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center, Florida] for the second Shuttle flight, when I was there for two weeks, so I was around them. Prior to that, not much at all, but quite a bit for those two weeks that we were sharing an office as we all came and went and worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you find a lot of difference in training Shuttle astronauts and the Apollo astronauts? Of course, I know it was the software and hardware, but I mean—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t actually train Apollo astronauts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was flight controllers then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came to Headquarters to work for a while and yet you had a lot of experience in the field center at JSC. What are the differences between working in the two different types of offices?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00003:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s really hard - to pick out one thing. The easy thing would be to say that I’m glad that I not just survived, but succeeded in Flight Control Division as the first woman. It probably was inevitable, but it might have made things easier than otherwise. I guess overall I’d just say, not one accomplishment, but most proud that I took on so many things that I had never done before and didn’t necessarily know how to do, but I figured out what to do, how to do it, and got it done. I think that’s what I have the most sense of accomplishment about, is I actually did accomplish things, things that hadn’t been done before, or people weren’t sure what to do, or that were sort of broken and needed to be fixed. They gave them to me and I figured it out and got it done, and generally with less support than somebody else would have had.\\n\\n When I left the Schedules and Flow Management Office, I didn’t have anybody assigned to work for me. I was getting information from a couple of people and coordinating people. When they replaced me, that guy was given six people to do the job, to support him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. As you mentioned, too, you did so many varied jobs, and so that must have been very challenging time for you. Every time you walked in, it was breaking new ground."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very interesting, and I’m lucky that since I am the sort of person that after you figure out how to do something and you get it running and it becomes repetitive, then I get bored and want to move on, I’ve also been very fortunate that I’ve had the opportunity and options given to me to take on new assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to add or any other aspects you can think of that we might not have covered before we close today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. Going through this just fills my head with all sorts of memories and anecdotes and things, but for now I think we’ve covered all the basics..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00003:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was very interesting, and I’m lucky that since I am the sort of person that after you figure out how to do something and you get it running and it becomes repetitive, then I get bored and want to move on, I’ve also been very fortunate that I’ve had the opportunity and options given to me to take on new assignments."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you’d like to add or any other aspects you can think of that we might not have covered before we close today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t think so. Going through this just fills my head with all sorts of memories and anecdotes and things, but for now I think we’ve covered all the basics..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...of my thirty-one years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of years. I know it’s hard to do in just a few hours, but thanks so much for the effort."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01005:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 68.26938946308917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a train from Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't hesitate when your brother called and told you that he had this letter? You just went? I mean, you were ready to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, see, the owner of the airport, Don Teel, was the one that came back from this overseas trip, and he was the one in Florida, told me in Florida. I left from Florida."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But no hesitation? You knew that this was what you needed to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, this is true. I called home and talked to Mother and my brother and my sister, and they knew. We tossed it around a bit, and they thought, well, yes, think that was okay. I don't know whether the fact that my father approved of it and had said such a thing, that he wanted us to contribute to the war effort, I don't know whether that influenced me at all, but I knew that here was something I was qualified for that, and I might as well do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you left sunny Florida and you went to Wilmington, Delaware. What time of the year was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01005:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 69.5319442203643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. But I never did promise the Lord, \"If you get me out of this situation I won't do it again.\" I never did do that. [Laughter] I guess I was afraid I'd have to, I don't know. But you'd call on him a lot of times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I can imagine some of the trips that you were—you were twenty-one and you were up in Delaware, someplace I guess you'd never been before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, never been there. Well, I had traveled. I traveled a lot with my family. We traveled everywhere. Yes, on the ground I'd been there, but never to fly up there, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were training on this small postage stamp of a place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were up from very small aircraft to now these big planes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01005:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 77.25771580040477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, never been there. Well, I had traveled. I traveled a lot with my family. We traveled everywhere. Yes, on the ground I'd been there, but never to fly up there, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were training on this small postage stamp of a place."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you were up from very small aircraft to now these big planes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I started at the bottom, and felt my transition was very nice in that. I started on all the little ones on up to the next step, the next step, and I kept them in order. As I say, I was just lucky. I kept them in all order all the way. So every time I got something, I was kind of ready for that, rather than from down here and then all of a sudden jumping into something up here, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a favorite one out of all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01005:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 46.031416101000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, quite a bit without radios. But now, when I did this, I never said a word to them. I didn't use a radio, other than I told him—yes, that's right, see, I could contact him. Like when I was telling this other story, I couldn't contact anybody. I couldn't tell them what I thought about the situation, but I could contact him, yes. But as I was doing it, I didn't tell them what I was doing or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were many of your trips by yourself? Were you flying by yourself ferrying planes, or were you flying planes with other groups? You mention about going with the men, but so were the majority—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, many times I went a solo round, but you wouldn't go—more times than not, probably, you were more by yourself. When you got down on the ground, you might see some guys that had come in from some other place and then maybe you might want to go off together, but most of the time you were on single orders and you were alone most of the time, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said one of the most valuable things you did was study your map. Could you tell us why that was so important at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To do what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To study your map before you left. Why was that so important when you went off on those trips, to have—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00709:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.050582645949554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’re keeping busy even with the closeout of Shuttle, yes. There are a diverse number of things that we do here besides the air traffic control functions and the military radar unit functions. It’s also that same team that does the daily operations on the Shuttle Landing Facility runway as far as inspecting and instituting the maintenance and making sure that everything is taken care of for the continued readiness of the runway for whatever mission NASA decides for us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people work out here in total?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The number of air traffic controllers we were talking about went from a low number to twelve, but then after the Shuttle program we backed off to eight because we cancelled one of the shifts. We were doing two shifts of air traffic controllers a day at the control tower and around-the-clock protection of the Eastern Range airspace while Shuttle was still active, until after the Shuttle program in August and September of 2011. Then we cut back to eight controllers because those two shifts were lost. Our team is also comprised of aircraft servicers who handle taking care of the ramp and the aircraft—fueling, baggage handling, marshalling, and any of the servicing that’s required for whichever aircraft do come here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s turn to the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, which is what we’re interested in today. What role do you play in the Flight Readiness Review for an SCA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We really don’t have a role on the readiness side, other than to state that the runway has no limitations for what they need for arriving or for towing and mating or demating. That’s the only issues that we have, and the rest of the conditions are taken care of by the flight crews of the aircraft that are involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you have to do to prepare to accept the arrival of Shuttle Carrier Aircraft out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00709:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 38.334052649320434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We really don’t have a role on the readiness side, other than to state that the runway has no limitations for what they need for arriving or for towing and mating or demating. That’s the only issues that we have, and the rest of the conditions are taken care of by the flight crews of the aircraft that are involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you have to do to prepare to accept the arrival of Shuttle Carrier Aircraft out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’ve got one of the largest runways in the world, and one of the smallest ramp areas for the type of work that we do. So we have to be very careful to exclude any of the other aircraft that are too large or not suited to the requirements of Shuttle carrier operations. We dedicate the entire ramp area to handling the Pathfinder aircraft that precedes it, and the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft itself, which is huge, and any of the other associated support aircraft that might be involved with the actual ferry. Primarily that’s T-38 activity, with the astronauts that are coming or media-related to the operation itself.\\n\\n We make sure via PPRs, Prior Permission Requests, that we deny anybody that doesn’t need to be here and make sure that we have properly planned for everybody that does need to be here. Quite often parking scenarios get to be unique because of the number of aircraft or the type of handling that we do. We’ve had different sizes of Pathfinder aircraft before, and sometimes the parking spaces are so premium that we have to do some towing or relocating of aircraft in order to make sure everything fits on the postage-stamp-sized ramp that I have."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you’re referring to the ramp, is this the space out here [demonstrates]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The ramp area is the area that lies just east of the runway, and the edge of that is where the mate-demate structure was built. So you can roll right off the ramp and into the structure with the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft or with the orbiter, depending on which process you’re doing—either the mating or the demating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have to do any checks of the runway itself, or do you have to have any special equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00709:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 46.935346321394825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For that reason we have to do that. Plus it’s a realignment of our own staffing, because a lot of times when they came the process started immediately to do the offload. Sometimes that runs a third shift through the night, significant amounts of people and shop support in order to provide the lighting and the generators and all of the ground support equipment that’s required to do the job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How do you stay in contact with the SCA? Do you know where they are from the minute that they’ve departed Edwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "More recently, in the last few years, there’s a much more significant flight tracking capability available. In the past it had always been through the Houston team, who provided the pilots. They’re technically responsible for the aircraft. We kept in touch with them explicitly to know what changes and modifications or what weather they were encountering to impact their itineraries as they came across country. They had a flight operations group at what used to be Ellington Air Force Base [now Ellington Field] in Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you just talk with them on the phone or get an email?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the past we had talked with them, but now we can get more web-related information for tracking the aircraft and the Pathfinder across country. In the more recent years we were able to accomplish that and then just supplement that information with the information that was going back and forth. We started this process without ever even having cell phones invented, so you can imagine how the world has changed since the Shuttle started doing the Shuttle carrier operations without any mobile phone capability in your pocket whatsoever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came, you had mentioned that originally the facility was run by NASA. Did they have a process and procedure in place for accepting the SCA that you just then adopted, or did you scrap that and start out with your own set of procedures?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 63.948309174438556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, go ahead, I'm all right, I'm still with you, if you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I do want to go back and talk to you for a second about --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I know I'm longwinded, but --"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we think you're very informative."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Think you're very informative, because it depends how you look at that. One of the things that you did after you left the space program is that on occasion you would work with ABC TV as an anchor. How did you enjoy or how did you feel about --"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 83.46488214363444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, I'm going to give you -- okay wait a minute. Wait a minute. I want you to hold that up. You do what everybody in the world -- and you shouldn't. Now hold it up upright. Hold the top of the world at the top. You're two out of two wrong. Try it again. You only got two other directions to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don't you hold it for us? Because you saw it. You tell us. Look at it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know what you're looking at? You know what you're looking at?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You tell us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish I had a nickel, I wish I had a penny for every time this picture has been used. This is the only real -- it's not quite full Earth. It's about a day or two after full Earth, because you can see how sharp it is on one side, and you can just see a little bit of the fuzzy terminator on this side. But it's because we landed on the -- I didn't try to put you on the spot. Because we landed [on the northeastern edge of the Moon, when it was just a sliver]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 54.78478729272757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're scribbling down. Go ahead. I'll try and accommodate as much as you --"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I did have a couple of questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You weren't even born when I walked on the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Barely. You were still wetting your diapers I can guarantee you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was. Barely, you're right. Yes I was. I was really intrigued by your comments about the Earth and how you could take it and put it in your pocket and bring it home, because I was thinking today one of the major issues that this world is facing is global warming. I was curious what impact you think that the space program and your mission perhaps has had on the environmental movement and shaping the way we think about the Earth."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.586673361840603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, let me give you another one while I'm on the record. This is a special week for me. You ever heard of the Wright Memorial Trophy? It's given in Washington every year in December, black-tie dinner, for the individual who has contributed -- this is the 60th year -- contributed to the Wright Brothers' legacy, aviation, aerospace, people like [Charles A.] Lindbergh, people like [Lt. General James H.] Doolittle, people like [Igor I.] Sikorsky, people like [Donald W.] Douglas, you can go on and on, people like John Glenn and people like Neil Armstrong. The only [three] thus far astronauts that have ever received the [Wright Memorial] Trophy. That's a pretty unique club. Three days from now -- I've been selected. I'm going to receive the Wright Brothers Memorial Trophy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay? Special club. I'm proud of it. Normally I don't go around saying things like that to people, because I've had a few other honors, but this is the top of the mountain. Pretty special. Why is it that the only three astronauts -- I'm going to give you another one -- that have ever received the Wright Brothers Memorial Trophy are all naval aviators? God, my Air Force guys are going to hate me for this one. I don't have the answer to that question either. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. There's no [difference]. I've given you some tough ones now. You’re going to really do some editing, I can see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think so, I don't think so. Usually we get to ask the questions. So I'm glad you left us with some. But thank you for all your answers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. You got anything else you want on me? I've got -- what is it -- oh been here almost two hours. But you got anything else you want to follow up on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there's just so much, I'm not sure where we would start at this point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.651859290934002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay? Special club. I'm proud of it. Normally I don't go around saying things like that to people, because I've had a few other honors, but this is the top of the mountain. Pretty special. Why is it that the only three astronauts -- I'm going to give you another one -- that have ever received the Wright Brothers Memorial Trophy are all naval aviators? God, my Air Force guys are going to hate me for this one. I don't have the answer to that question either. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. There's no [difference]. I've given you some tough ones now. You’re going to really do some editing, I can see that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't think so, I don't think so. Usually we get to ask the questions. So I'm glad you left us with some. But thank you for all your answers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. You got anything else you want on me? I've got -- what is it -- oh been here almost two hours. But you got anything else you want to follow up on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there's just so much, I'm not sure where we would start at this point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So after this is over we're going to get hot water, hot coffee, and wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to tell them recommendations from Gene Cernan that the astronauts would be glad to get."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.946510323260004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. You got anything else you want on me? I've got -- what is it -- oh been here almost two hours. But you got anything else you want to follow up on?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, there's just so much, I'm not sure where we would start at this point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So after this is over we're going to get hot water, hot coffee, and wine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're going to tell them recommendations from Gene Cernan that the astronauts would be glad to get."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, my problem is I could talk about this for a long time. There's so many things. You probably haven't had a chance to read my book. I've tried to answer --"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I actually have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00077:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you want to do more of this I'll be glad to -- it's probably -- probably -- it's a valuable thing to do. You’d like to have Christopher Columbus and Neil Armstrong in this room sitting side by side. Throw Jim Lovell in. Okay? Ask them the same word, “Hey, Mr. Columbus, were you ever scared you'd fall off the flat Earth? Hey, Mr. Columbus, how did you feel when the guy said land ho? Hey, Neil, you feel you wouldn't come back? What was it really like to make that first step?” Which none of us unfortunately will ever really know yet. “Jim, God, you got to tell us about Apollo 13.” These guys experienced -- they all experienced the same thing in some degree or another, a product of their times, doing what they thought was the right thing to do. That would have been a hell of a group of people to put together, wouldn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just the decision-making processes that were going through their mind, of what's right, what's wrong, what's --"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keep in mind the decision-making process, although Columbus had a little bit more time to think about it I suppose, you got that extra dimension that we have no control over of time. Dimension of time really controls the outcome of almost everything we do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned a while ago about fears. Did you have the fear of the unknown because that's what you knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you sort of -- you try and anticipate the unknown. You didn't have time to be scared. Scared is lack of awareness. We knew where we were going, what we were going to do. Weren't sure what we were going to encounter. I don't care how many guys go there before you, it's still you, it's still the first time for you, okay? No matter what you do. Whether you tightrope across the Grand Canyon, it's been done 100 times. For you it's the first time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I'm sure you're looking forward to seeing the next crew go back. Are you involved with Constellation? Are you lending support?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 31.793734642166307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People like Owen Morris. Have you talked to Owen Morris?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "People like Owen Morris would spend the night, all night long, at Grumman, because he had the LM program under as the manager. At one time he was my boss. He had a terrible problem with the New York attitude, but he overcame it and, as a matter of fact, is very much respected at Bethpage [Long Island, New York]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting, because usually when we have heard of comparisons, I guess, between attitudes, mostly it's between Grumman and North American. Usually the California attitude is maybe a sort of more lackadaisical approach versus the Eastern more hardworking ethic. That's usually what we hear rather than the sort of personal attitude, I guess, in New York."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a matter of fact, at Rockwell, the people—you hit a point on the head. The people at Rockwell would say \"yes\" and mean, \"If you catch us, yes.\" Rockwell, being in the Southern California area, had people there that came to California not to work on the space program but basically to go to California, as a matter of fact. So they had a large contingent of people that worked at Rockwell, who could care less about the space program. But, nevertheless, the team that we finally evolved with turned out to be a pretty dedicated team, the whole team. I'm talking about Rockwell and Grumman and Delco and all the others. So it's an interesting number of people.\\n\\n You think, well, we're all one nation, but we have various people who have different attitudes. You hit the nail on the head. In New York, people didn't move around very much. People lived in the New York area, in Long Island or Manhattan area. They'd been there for generations. Not true in California. They'd been there a year, last year-type thing. So that does change attitudes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And certainly the national scope of the Apollo Program brought all these attitudes together into one project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 44.56984809633863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I did. There was a friend of mine, I don't know if you'll ever have a chance to interview him, he later worked for me, he's retired, his name is Harvey Fritz. Harvey Fritz came up through the military, and his attitude was probably pretty similar to mine, is it was very difficult for us to grasp the utility of a war that had no fronts that we could win. Here we were in various camps, and every once in a while they'd slug it out with us, and we'd lose 500 men and people with limbs.\\n\\n It was difficult because we were used to a war where we had a definite goal, we knew what it took to win. And here was a war that we could not understand. So, yes, it was difficult. But we didn't get involved in it very much. We were so involved in Apollo Program that, as a matter of fact, we didn't go out with Jane Fonda and march on the street. We really didn't get involved in the thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a way, working on Apollo there, you were fighting a war in the sense that you could win. You did have this definite goal. Did you have a sense of the competition going on between the Soviet Union and the United States in the space race?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a motivating factor for you at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, very much. We were very sensitive to that. There is a\\n\\n Time\\n\\n series, I don't know if you've seen that, that came out. It was put out by\\n\\n Time\\n\\n , which talked about the Apollo Program, the background of the thing, who named the Apollo. I think it was named by [Abe] Silverstein. He died recently. All of the details of the program, and then evolved itself all the way. It's recorded, a bunch of records. Have you had an opportunity to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I haven't listened to that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.02814289207037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was at White Sands as a manager at White Sands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. It was sometime ago, I guess, that we talked to him, probably a couple of years now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Been a while since you talked to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he's a very, very good guy. I'm sure you enjoyed talking to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From a practical perspective, did this mean any changes for you, creating this separate directorate?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.031269880078188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Been a while since you talked to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he's a very, very good guy. I'm sure you enjoyed talking to him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From a practical perspective, did this mean any changes for you, creating this separate directorate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really, because I had my approach, and they had to adopt me or lose me. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean in terms of it didn't add any additional authority or change avenues of redress or whatever?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.170073191104077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, if you want to continue making some remarks about it, that's okay, or I could ask you some specific ones."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don't you ask me some."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. A sort of transitory question from Apollo to Shuttle—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing I didn't cover, and I'll come back to, is the Skylab Program. We'll come back to that. There's a lot to say on that.\\n\\n In fact, why don't I cover that real shortly. The Skylab Program was, to us, basically an advocation of the Apollo module itself. The LM was not involved in it. It was basically an Apollo-type mission. I'm going to say it's somewhat of a latch-up with the Russians to try to become a little bit more friendly with the Russians and begin to end the Cold War, more than anything else.\\n\\n Basically, the same discipline that took place on the Apollo was just a continuation on Skylab. There wasn't anything special, other than the latch-up itself and the new equipment that took place, so there wasn't a heck of a lot to add to that. I knew the crew. And it probably contributed something to international relations.\\n\\n Not a lot more that I can say on the Skylab Program. It was a short-lived program. It was basically a single mission-type program where we rendezvoused with the Russians' Soyuz Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In this transition period from where you're going from Apollo and doing these follow-on missions, the Skylab and the Apollo-Soyuz, where you're doing hookup with the Russians, are you at the same time then gearing up for Space Shuttle, are you then running all these activities simultaneously, the end of Apollo, the beginning of Shuttle, and then some of these Apollo follow-on programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.25949403206267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A few of them. Well, I say a few of them. A good number of them went to work for contractors like Glynn [S.] Lunney, who is one of close friends of mine, who went to work for Rockwell and who was later with USA [United Space Alliance]. Now, he's very sensitive about things, but he's probably ready for retirement. Bob Thompson is retired. So the people who were there when, you know, how many of them can really pass on—that's where the value of this project is very useful. How many of them can really pass on the lessons learned and really pass it on to the extent that it takes?\\n\\n One of the things, I don't know if I've talked to you about this before—you're the history major?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we all are."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You all are history majors?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, then, if you study some of the tribal things that took place in the Indian nations, American Indian, they had a tremendous respect for the elder person that survived. Why did they? Well, those that survived had a sense of experience of lessons learned that they could pass on to the brave in terms of, \"Hey, you'd better not take on the white man yet. You might all get killed.\" So they were able to bring on a maturity that would not be present, and then they would welcome these people as chiefs or give them some kind of title, but they kept them around. They didn't cast them off.\\n\\n In our society today, I'm not sure how many of them are cast off. They're casting off maturity. I think that there's a lot of that takes place in the United States. I don't know if you picked that up in some of your history lessons or really have sensed that particular area or not. Have you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, a little bit. Do you think that same thing is applicable for NASA specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.660214028048074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who have you talked to?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, most of them, the ones that are still around. Al [Alan L.] Bean, Owen [K.] Garriott, Bill [William R.] Pogue."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You talked to Bill?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Bill is a friend of mine. In fact, he was the one that we did some consulting work together. And the one that was on that mission with him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On Pogue's mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.844682253386747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You talked to Bill?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Bill is a friend of mine. In fact, he was the one that we did some consulting work together. And the one that was on that mission with him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On Pogue's mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was Jerry [Gerald P.] Carr."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.27186917042972, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Bill is a friend of mine. In fact, he was the one that we did some consulting work together. And the one that was on that mission with him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On Pogue's mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was Jerry [Gerald P.] Carr."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jerry Carr."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ed [Edward G.] Gibson was the other one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.857632411588575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was Jerry [Gerald P.] Carr."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jerry Carr."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ed [Edward G.] Gibson was the other one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gibson, yes. I don't know what Bill Pogue told you about in-flight maintenance, but he will share exactly what I'm saying here, exactly. You did talk to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know if he mentioned in-flight maintenance. I'm trying to remember back. It was a little while ago that I talked to him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 48.521759539795696, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don't know. We could develop a lot of information there, and it's got to be more than just human demands, you know. A person can live and work in space for a year or two. It's got to be more than that. You've got to have a lot of technology developed out of that program. I'm not sure who the czar is that understands that particular area and has got grips on it. Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin may. I don't know if you can get a little history from him. He may have a handle on the thing or have some sensitivity on the thing.\\n\\n It would be interesting to interview these guys and say, \"What is your feelings on this particular area?\" It would be a good interview with a guy like him. He's certainly lived through this mess, and it's been a mess that's gone through I don't know how many evolutions to be where we are today, and how many people have been managers on this program that are not managers today. They've killed off a lot of people, a lot of good managers, as a matter of fact. I don't know how much you've got into that particular activity. Have you been able to get into that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly not in the depth that we've had on the previous programs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was a guy that was one of the original program managers. I can't think of his name. He's with SAIC [Science Applications International Corp.]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Neil [B.] Hutchinson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Neil Hutchinson. Neil would be a really good guy to interview."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We talked to him once, but we didn't quite get up to his Space Station days. He's planning on coming in again to talk about that yet, so we've got that to look forward to with him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.426681382861002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Have you talked to him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He probably had some interesting perspective in this thing. But they were using the same contractor, and I got the sense that it was almost like a family and that they didn't need as much paperwork. They did not have that much paperwork involved and didn't have a support contractor that I know of. So it was a little different kind of perspective.\\n\\n Here on Apollo, a large program, a lot of people involved, thousands of people involved, large contractors, and you'd better have your data type thing. Where Mercury and Gemini, short program, wasn't that long a program, had the family-type atmosphere, everybody knew each other, trusted each other, used a lot of inspection techniques. You walked around. Joe Bobik, who did a lot of the inspection aspects, the one I told you you ought to talk to, and the Jack Jones aspect, may not have realized what they had there, but when I talked to the guy that was charge of that thing, that's what I got out of it.\\n\\n He did not take lightly to any criticism, either. This guy passed away that was in charge of that here. I can't remember his name. But he respected me because I had a tendency to speed read. I was on a flight with him one time, and he gave me something to read. I gave it back to him. \"You didn't read that.\"\\n\\n I said, \"Yes, I read it.\" I had to learn to speed read because every day I got stacks of information, and if I didn't speed read through those stacks of information, I'd die. So I learned to speed read, maybe not 100 percent, but pretty good.\\n\\n Does that answer your question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, thank you very much.\n\nWas that Jim Chamberlin you were talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or Chuck Matthews, maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.362979314290001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He probably had some interesting perspective in this thing. But they were using the same contractor, and I got the sense that it was almost like a family and that they didn't need as much paperwork. They did not have that much paperwork involved and didn't have a support contractor that I know of. So it was a little different kind of perspective.\\n\\n Here on Apollo, a large program, a lot of people involved, thousands of people involved, large contractors, and you'd better have your data type thing. Where Mercury and Gemini, short program, wasn't that long a program, had the family-type atmosphere, everybody knew each other, trusted each other, used a lot of inspection techniques. You walked around. Joe Bobik, who did a lot of the inspection aspects, the one I told you you ought to talk to, and the Jack Jones aspect, may not have realized what they had there, but when I talked to the guy that was charge of that thing, that's what I got out of it.\\n\\n He did not take lightly to any criticism, either. This guy passed away that was in charge of that here. I can't remember his name. But he respected me because I had a tendency to speed read. I was on a flight with him one time, and he gave me something to read. I gave it back to him. \"You didn't read that.\"\\n\\n I said, \"Yes, I read it.\" I had to learn to speed read because every day I got stacks of information, and if I didn't speed read through those stacks of information, I'd die. So I learned to speed read, maybe not 100 percent, but pretty good.\\n\\n Does that answer your question?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, thank you very much.\n\nWas that Jim Chamberlin you were talking about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or Chuck Matthews, maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was in reliability, this guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we need to change out the tape and then we'll just finish up with our last couple questions, I guess. [Tape change]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.213554709000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he was in reliability, this guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think we need to change out the tape and then we'll just finish up with our last couple questions, I guess. [Tape change]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the LM Program, he was a captain, I guess. Did you talk to any of the early Apollo managers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember some of these guys. Charlie Frick. There was a whole raft of these guys. They'd come and go like gangbusters. They were here maybe a year, make their mark and disappear. Didn't make much of a mark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think most of the ones we talked to ended up being there for longer periods of time, so I'm not sure if we got any of those guys or not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.237283010000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the LM Program, he was a captain, I guess. Did you talk to any of the early Apollo managers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like who?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember some of these guys. Charlie Frick. There was a whole raft of these guys. They'd come and go like gangbusters. They were here maybe a year, make their mark and disappear. Didn't make much of a mark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think most of the ones we talked to ended up being there for longer periods of time, so I'm not sure if we got any of those guys or not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this guy was not bad. This guy was a retired Navy captain. You'll probably run across his name as you run through there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I can always check it out, anyway.\\n\\n Do you have other questions, Jennifer?\n\nNo."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.374758900000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm trying to remember some of these guys. Charlie Frick. There was a whole raft of these guys. They'd come and go like gangbusters. They were here maybe a year, make their mark and disappear. Didn't make much of a mark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think most of the ones we talked to ended up being there for longer periods of time, so I'm not sure if we got any of those guys or not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this guy was not bad. This guy was a retired Navy captain. You'll probably run across his name as you run through there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I can always check it out, anyway.\\n\\n Do you have other questions, Jennifer?\n\nNo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't have answered all those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, you know, you answered all the questions that I had written down here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.638621000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, this guy was not bad. This guy was a retired Navy captain. You'll probably run across his name as you run through there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. I can always check it out, anyway.\\n\\n Do you have other questions, Jennifer?\n\nNo."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't have answered all those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, you know, you answered all the questions that I had written down here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More than you wanted to hear. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about people, as we were changing out tapes, and I was wondering if there were any individuals that made a significant impression on you or had an impact on you during your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.820690000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I couldn't have answered all those questions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, actually, you know, you answered all the questions that I had written down here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More than you wanted to hear. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about people, as we were changing out tapes, and I was wondering if there were any individuals that made a significant impression on you or had an impact on you during your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they all made an impact on me. You always search for a mentor that comes close to that. I think Bob Thompson comes close to meeting that. Certainly I feel that way towards him. I don't know how he feels towards me.\\n\\n Marty Raines made an impression. He was a different-type person. Marty Raines is a retired colonel, and his method of management was different than mine. I micromanaged. He did not. But very intelligent person. You talked to him, didn't you? Very intelligent person, and I certainly think highly of him.\\n\\n Dr. Gilruth I didn't know very well, so he didn't come through as a mentor to me.\\n\\n The contractors themselves, Dale [D.] Myers impressed me, and he was somewhat of a mentor of mine. That's about the ones that come through as ones that I had real—I had respect for many of them. There wasn't hardly any of them I didn't have a lot of respect for. I did.\\n\\n Bill Bland, I hope you do interview him. Bill Bland is probably one of the most dedicated persons around. He came from Langley, the original space group. I hope he does allow you to interview him. Do you think you will?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I certainly hope so. We've been trying to keep in touch with him to encourage him to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00355:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.134100000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "More than you wanted to hear. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about people, as we were changing out tapes, and I was wondering if there were any individuals that made a significant impression on you or had an impact on you during your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they all made an impact on me. You always search for a mentor that comes close to that. I think Bob Thompson comes close to meeting that. Certainly I feel that way towards him. I don't know how he feels towards me.\\n\\n Marty Raines made an impression. He was a different-type person. Marty Raines is a retired colonel, and his method of management was different than mine. I micromanaged. He did not. But very intelligent person. You talked to him, didn't you? Very intelligent person, and I certainly think highly of him.\\n\\n Dr. Gilruth I didn't know very well, so he didn't come through as a mentor to me.\\n\\n The contractors themselves, Dale [D.] Myers impressed me, and he was somewhat of a mentor of mine. That's about the ones that come through as ones that I had real—I had respect for many of them. There wasn't hardly any of them I didn't have a lot of respect for. I did.\\n\\n Bill Bland, I hope you do interview him. Bill Bland is probably one of the most dedicated persons around. He came from Langley, the original space group. I hope he does allow you to interview him. Do you think you will?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I certainly hope so. We've been trying to keep in touch with him to encourage him to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because he's good and he has a very good sensitivity. He worked on the nuclear-powered programs. He worked on Three Mile Island accident. He did a lot of work on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you did consulting with outside industries. Did you or anyone in your group go to any other outside industries to learn from them and bring that knowledge back to NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00631:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 65.97611044945705, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Look, we were building the fourth orbiter at the time. We had the parts; we just weren’t building it. Atlantis was the last one. Atlantis was in the factory. I don’t think that was a big deal. The money was already there. Yes, we had to spend money to assemble it and to get it running, but I never said that we should stick with three vehicles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't some people think that the Space Shuttle Program should be made more robust before NASA started moving towards Station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was always my view. But really we had fought for a fifth orbiter, and we got—I don’t know which budget it was—but we did get the parts to assemble a fifth orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the discussions about future Stations, was there a large division about whether they should be permanently manned or should they only be occupied when needed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, the “occupied when needed” turned out to be not a good idea really. You can do it of course, but no, on the permanence of a human presence in orbit, that was a clear thing that everybody agreed to. The question was just how you do it. My minority view was the one I’ve told you about. I really think had I stayed in NASA after the Challenger—if I’d stayed in NASA just for another year, say, do that briefing of the problem with the O-ring, and fix the goddamn thing, things would have gone all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly would have changed history, wouldn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00631:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.309769, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean between—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "July 4th, 1982, was the STS-4 flight when he first uses that phrase; the State of the Union message was in [January] 1984."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The July 4th was earlier, that was in ’82. We had no money; the money didn’t come until ’84."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because you had the FY ’85 budget proposal in—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A hundred fifty million dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that raised a lot of pushback."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00631:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 42.566410000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The July 4th was earlier, that was in ’82. We had no money; the money didn’t come until ’84."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, because you had the FY ’85 budget proposal in—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A hundred fifty million dollars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure that raised a lot of pushback."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the first dollop."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you hoping to do with that first installment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00299:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 102.5368295175026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The Smithsonian [Institution, Washington, DC] still has some star balls. There was four big ones and one small one in each of the CMSs, and two for the Lunar Module window. When you looked out the window, you saw the stars. Then they had a telescope for navigation also, so most of those star balls are lost. Probably in somebody’s house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, somebody’s back attic somewhere."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Like the pieces that are missing on the Saturn V, we can take a tour around there, I can show you all of the pieces that are just gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gone over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, somebody recycled them actually, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think that happened a lot. Let’s talk about January 1967."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00299:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 34, "return_to_go": 69.51824674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, freezing my ass, trying to stay out of the snow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you were in the midst of an accident investigation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in fact, one year it was literally [one year]. It was January, because I came in in May and January is when I’d—it’s one year, almost exactly to the date. Yes, it’s a date and two weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Time only in calendar days though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had had many, many nights of [work]. We’d like to hear the rest of this episode of the following days, and how things started moving forward."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00299:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, they loved it. It’s that same old stuff. They were all kind of interested too, so we did three different one-mile squares, different, one a week apart. It was so great, but we got incredible results. It was like 45,000. You counted how many you see in this mile and we just multiplied it by so many square miles of KSC. It was like 40,000 alligators or something like that. That was then, and I think that there’s only so much that they can eat, so they’ve probably stayed pretty close. You see them around everywhere at KSC. Maybe if you just see some around here, go down to Brazos Bend State Park. They’re just everywhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, very large."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very large. Don’t bring your dog."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. Or small children without leashes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This might be a good place for us to stop, and then—because it’ll be easy to pick up where we left off when we come back."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.078252467249445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wouldn't be working at the National Archives i,f I hadn't happened to be at George Mason University when Ed McCarter advertised for a, oh, goodness, I don't remember what the exact title was, but it was someone to work with the naval photographs from World War II. And I was taking my master's degree at Mason, and a friend saw a note on our bulletin board that Ed had sent, and they knew that I had worked three years for the Military History Institute up in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, arranging their World War II photographs. They said, \"Oh, this is perfect, why don't you apply?\" So I wrote, and, sure enough, here I am."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you had your master's thesis at George Mason ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I also took my bachelor's there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. And you engaged in research at the National Archives?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, and had met Michael Kurtz, also, through some work that I was doing, so I had that tie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, your professional work experience outside the National Archives was with Capitol Hill. Can you discuss that?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.28179316944376, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had, and had met Michael Kurtz, also, through some work that I was doing, so I had that tie."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Well, your professional work experience outside the National Archives was with Capitol Hill. Can you discuss that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had worked on-and-off; my husband was an army officer, so we would come to Washington, be reassigned, and come back to Washington. During the time that I was in Washington, I worked on the Hill for three congressmen and one senator. Most ofmy work there involved writing speeches and position papers, and I edited Senator Allen Cranston's newsletter ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...for California in three languages! So I did that for several years. The unfortunate part ofit was during the time that I was on the Hill, the employees there were not part ofthe Civil Service system, so it does not count, those years do not count at all for my retirement purposes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You spent how many years working on the Hill?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.090881299381955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I had worked on-and-off; my husband was an army officer, so we would come to Washington, be reassigned, and come back to Washington. During the time that I was in Washington, I worked on the Hill for three congressmen and one senator. Most ofmy work there involved writing speeches and position papers, and I edited Senator Allen Cranston's newsletter ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...for California in three languages! So I did that for several years. The unfortunate part ofit was during the time that I was on the Hill, the employees there were not part ofthe Civil Service system, so it does not count, those years do not count at all for my retirement purposes!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You spent how many years working on the Hill?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, goodness, I don't know ...six, seven, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that helped you secure a position here at the Archives in '91?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 30.11219913503945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, goodness, I don't know ...six, seven, something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that helped you secure a position here at the Archives in '91?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it really didn't. I decided, when we came back in 1985 and my husband decided to retire, that I would go back to school and finish my education, which had been interrupted every place we would go!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a good friend who has about 150 hours ofcredit but not enough to graduate anyplace, because they have gotten it at places were her husband traveled, so ... I don't think the Hill experience really helped me to get a job at NARA, other than the experience ofwriting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What kind oftraining did the Archives provide when you started working here?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.346887927821612, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it really didn't. I decided, when we came back in 1985 and my husband decided to retire, that I would go back to school and finish my education, which had been interrupted every place we would go!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a good friend who has about 150 hours ofcredit but not enough to graduate anyplace, because they have gotten it at places were her husband traveled, so ... I don't think the Hill experience really helped me to get a job at NARA, other than the experience ofwriting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What kind oftraining did the Archives provide when you started working here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I started with Ed McCarter, and I was actually only with Still Pictures about, hmm, three months, it was because I had the experience already working with photographs, from the time at MHl [Military History Institute] but at the end ofthat three months, my husband was retiring. I was working part-time for Ed, but I needed a full-time job. Mary Rephlo suggested, knowing my writing experience, that Sharon Thibodeau was looking for someone in NN-E, which was Archival Publications, to write and to edit, and do that kind ofthing. So at that point I moved over there. Again, I had writing experience, so it did not take much specialized training for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came in as a writer?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.607653253135123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a good friend who has about 150 hours ofcredit but not enough to graduate anyplace, because they have gotten it at places were her husband traveled, so ... I don't think the Hill experience really helped me to get a job at NARA, other than the experience ofwriting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. What kind oftraining did the Archives provide when you started working here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I started with Ed McCarter, and I was actually only with Still Pictures about, hmm, three months, it was because I had the experience already working with photographs, from the time at MHl [Military History Institute] but at the end ofthat three months, my husband was retiring. I was working part-time for Ed, but I needed a full-time job. Mary Rephlo suggested, knowing my writing experience, that Sharon Thibodeau was looking for someone in NN-E, which was Archival Publications, to write and to edit, and do that kind ofthing. So at that point I moved over there. Again, I had writing experience, so it did not take much specialized training for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came in as a writer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came in, certainly, to full-time employment at the Archives; as I said, I had worked at Still Pictures for those three months. Cataloging was what I was doing, and I wrote descriptive material, too. But when I moved to NNE, they were looking for a writer and a historian, and I had experience doing both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But the archivist position; how did you come about being the archivist for RG 64 [Records ofthe National Archives and Records Administration]?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.11961472570569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much. I started with Ed McCarter, and I was actually only with Still Pictures about, hmm, three months, it was because I had the experience already working with photographs, from the time at MHl [Military History Institute] but at the end ofthat three months, my husband was retiring. I was working part-time for Ed, but I needed a full-time job. Mary Rephlo suggested, knowing my writing experience, that Sharon Thibodeau was looking for someone in NN-E, which was Archival Publications, to write and to edit, and do that kind ofthing. So at that point I moved over there. Again, I had writing experience, so it did not take much specialized training for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came in as a writer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came in, certainly, to full-time employment at the Archives; as I said, I had worked at Still Pictures for those three months. Cataloging was what I was doing, and I wrote descriptive material, too. But when I moved to NNE, they were looking for a writer and a historian, and I had experience doing both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But the archivist position; how did you come about being the archivist for RG 64 [Records ofthe National Archives and Records Administration]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, goodness ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ".. .Is that a long story?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 24.577349695228545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I came in, certainly, to full-time employment at the Archives; as I said, I had worked at Still Pictures for those three months. Cataloging was what I was doing, and I wrote descriptive material, too. But when I moved to NNE, they were looking for a writer and a historian, and I had experience doing both."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But the archivist position; how did you come about being the archivist for RG 64 [Records ofthe National Archives and Records Administration]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, goodness ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ".. .Is that a long story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is a long story! How much tape do we have here? I worked mainly in publications for probably, out ofmy fourteen years, I worked primarily in publications for nine ofit. And when I moved back out here in 2000, I was finishing writing, with Bob Kvasnicka, the Guide to Genealogical Research, and as soon as I finished that I picked up the responsibility to write the inventory for RG 64, which meant going through all ofthe series and doing descriptions, which are now being translated into ARC [Archival Research Catalog] descriptions. It took a long time to get to [RG] 64!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You've addressed the next question, at least tangentially. That question is, what were your impressions ofthe agency at the time you began your career here?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.085944105809492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, goodness ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": ".. .Is that a long story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That is a long story! How much tape do we have here? I worked mainly in publications for probably, out ofmy fourteen years, I worked primarily in publications for nine ofit. And when I moved back out here in 2000, I was finishing writing, with Bob Kvasnicka, the Guide to Genealogical Research, and as soon as I finished that I picked up the responsibility to write the inventory for RG 64, which meant going through all ofthe series and doing descriptions, which are now being translated into ARC [Archival Research Catalog] descriptions. It took a long time to get to [RG] 64!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. You've addressed the next question, at least tangentially. That question is, what were your impressions ofthe agency at the time you began your career here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think very limited, because I did not, probably for the first three or four years, I did not take the \"Archives for Non-Archivists\" course, so I didn't really get how all the pieces necessarily fit together. I was looking at the archival publications and the finding aids that NARA was preparing, and I was working preparing, or writing, or editing those, but as far as accessioning, or that kind ofthing, really, until I took the course, I didn't quite understand how it all worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, OK. You mentioned your initial work assignments in Still Pictures, and you mentioned your work with RG 64. What other assignments had you had here at the agency, and how did those assignments change over the years? I guess that is a long, drawn-out question."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 29.223092864924876, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "...Yes, exactly. So that when someone looks at the series at a particular time, they know that it was called this, that, or the other thing. So, to try to get all ofit, so it agrees. I think we did something like 414 record groups at that time that are included in that Guide. We didn't do them in order, starting with Record Group 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. We started, the first batch, I think we sent it to GPO [Government Printing Office] to have it put on to the, goodness, it reminds me ofZantac, the medicine, but it's something like \"Zertec;\" the software program that they used at that time. We didn't send it to them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; we sent them like, 24, 33, 38 ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bits and pieces ..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was a challenge just to keep track ofwhich ones you had sent, what stage they were in, had they come back. Then, when you get all ofthem back, you get them in sheets that are about the size ofnewspaper sheets, what we call page proofs. You sit with these on this huge table, and you read line-by-line, letter-by-letter, all the way down, every one ofthose, I believe it is 2038 pages or some such thing. You are looking at each one ofthose, letter by letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a massive compilation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a huge compilation, yes it was!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long it take for you two to put the guide together?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.24788096102764, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and it was a challenge just to keep track ofwhich ones you had sent, what stage they were in, had they come back. Then, when you get all ofthem back, you get them in sheets that are about the size ofnewspaper sheets, what we call page proofs. You sit with these on this huge table, and you read line-by-line, letter-by-letter, all the way down, every one ofthose, I believe it is 2038 pages or some such thing. You are looking at each one ofthose, letter by letter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a massive compilation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a huge compilation, yes it was!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long it take for you two to put the guide together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Judy and I spent a year and a ha!£ Bob Matchette had originally worked on it, and was pulled offto work on the move. He jumped from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. Unfortunately, we had to go back to some ofthe stuff he did, because as new material came in, it didn't agree with some ofthe stuffthat was done before, so we were constant! y shifting back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the early '90s?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.27542329003071, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a huge compilation, yes it was!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long it take for you two to put the guide together?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Judy and I spent a year and a ha!£ Bob Matchette had originally worked on it, and was pulled offto work on the move. He jumped from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. Unfortunately, we had to go back to some ofthe stuff he did, because as new material came in, it didn't agree with some ofthe stuffthat was done before, so we were constant! y shifting back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the early '90s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, from about '93, probably, to early in '95 when the last of it was sent to GPO. But then we were going to GPO to meet with them, and to go over problems that we had, because no book ever arrives .. .I think ofthe Bible and what it took to get that together! I remember that when we met with the people to discuss what page weight.. .it's the things you don't think about in the book: how much does the paper for an individual page weigh? Because ifyou are going to put 2000 pages in somewhere, that's a lot ofweight!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It effects the weight, certainly."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 32.52824810003412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Judy and I spent a year and a ha!£ Bob Matchette had originally worked on it, and was pulled offto work on the move. He jumped from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. Unfortunately, we had to go back to some ofthe stuff he did, because as new material came in, it didn't agree with some ofthe stuffthat was done before, so we were constant! y shifting back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the early '90s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, from about '93, probably, to early in '95 when the last of it was sent to GPO. But then we were going to GPO to meet with them, and to go over problems that we had, because no book ever arrives .. .I think ofthe Bible and what it took to get that together! I remember that when we met with the people to discuss what page weight.. .it's the things you don't think about in the book: how much does the paper for an individual page weigh? Because ifyou are going to put 2000 pages in somewhere, that's a lot ofweight!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It effects the weight, certainly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So then, they said, \"All right, ifyou choose this weight ... \" and then the cover is a certain weight, and then the three volumes, and then when you pick it up and carry it around; the man at GPO said it would be very effective in Washington DC, because if you carried all three volumes, the weight ofthe paper and the cover would stop a bullet if it was fired at you! He thought there might be a market out there for protection purposes! [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, very good. I guess our next question would be, what challenges and issues have you faced with the agency? I know you were here for 14 years, but you have done a tremendous amount ofwork, from what I gather, with the agency, and I am sure there were some challenges and issues that you faced that you may want to expand upon here,"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 32.2075641720323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sorry, NN-E was Archival Publications, which was the finding aids, RIPs [Reference Information Papers], guides, special lists, select lists; we had a list ofStaff Information Papers, where the staffwould write papers on how to work with a specific series, or how to do specific things; recommendations on how to prepare a microfilm publication, which was a very big thing during those years ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that has changed ...?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, NN-E was assimilated with the NI and the NE and the other types of publications staffmembers into one unit, so that now the people who edit down at NWCD--I started to say NNCD, it's WCD!--are doing a lot of different things. I did the Archivist's bio one year, to prepare and edit that for NPOL. So there are a lot of different things than we used to do. Where we were very specialized, we expanded, so that NI people, who had done nothing but records management, could do finding aids and that kind ofthing, across that border."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, Ok, right. So that has been a good change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is, because it has meant that ifyou only had one person in NI, in Records Management, preparing records management publications, and they were on leave or sick, or something happens, then it stops at that point. Whereas ifyou have them all working together, ifthat person is gone, someone else is prepared to pick up the editing, or the writing responsibility for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, our next question is, what would you say were the most significant turning points in your career with the agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.008404635591443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, NN-E was assimilated with the NI and the NE and the other types of publications staffmembers into one unit, so that now the people who edit down at NWCD--I started to say NNCD, it's WCD!--are doing a lot of different things. I did the Archivist's bio one year, to prepare and edit that for NPOL. So there are a lot of different things than we used to do. Where we were very specialized, we expanded, so that NI people, who had done nothing but records management, could do finding aids and that kind ofthing, across that border."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, Ok, right. So that has been a good change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is, because it has meant that ifyou only had one person in NI, in Records Management, preparing records management publications, and they were on leave or sick, or something happens, then it stops at that point. Whereas ifyou have them all working together, ifthat person is gone, someone else is prepared to pick up the editing, or the writing responsibility for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, our next question is, what would you say were the most significant turning points in your career with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came early on, very early! [Laughs] I met Sharon Thibodeau. Mary Rephlo, who was at that time working with Personnel within the Archives, she knew that Sharon was looking for someone who could do what we call \"content editing.\" Editing is usually like a technical edit ...something is not spelled right. But someone who could look at a NARA publication and say, \"No, this person was not at the conference ... \" I remember one in particular that said that Charles de Gaulle fought in France all the way through the Second World War, which ofcourse, he did not [Laughs], he was in England for much of that time. So it is the ability to pick up a historical error as well as a technical error in spelling or English grammar, where the tenses don't match and that sort ofthing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK; Would you say that gender has affected your ability to advance within the agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 31.120449595101604, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is, because it has meant that ifyou only had one person in NI, in Records Management, preparing records management publications, and they were on leave or sick, or something happens, then it stops at that point. Whereas ifyou have them all working together, ifthat person is gone, someone else is prepared to pick up the editing, or the writing responsibility for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, our next question is, what would you say were the most significant turning points in your career with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It came early on, very early! [Laughs] I met Sharon Thibodeau. Mary Rephlo, who was at that time working with Personnel within the Archives, she knew that Sharon was looking for someone who could do what we call \"content editing.\" Editing is usually like a technical edit ...something is not spelled right. But someone who could look at a NARA publication and say, \"No, this person was not at the conference ... \" I remember one in particular that said that Charles de Gaulle fought in France all the way through the Second World War, which ofcourse, he did not [Laughs], he was in England for much of that time. So it is the ability to pick up a historical error as well as a technical error in spelling or English grammar, where the tenses don't match and that sort ofthing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK; Would you say that gender has affected your ability to advance within the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not in my particular case. I am sure that there are other cases where it probably has, but I had a skill that was somewhat unusual, or a combination ofskills, ifyou would. So I don't think it would have mattered had I been man or woman; ifI had been a man with those skills, it still would have been what they needed. And in editing, in NWCD, there have certainly been both men and women who have served as editors and writers for the National Archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, very good. Well, I guess you have addressed the next question in your previous responses, but what had been your relationship with other Federal agencies, and how have those relationships affected your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.21614184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a time when we had a little more flexibility to go out, you know, to other [print shops] .. .if GPO was just stacked up with work, and we needed something very quickly. And I think probably, still, invitations to a dinner that the Archivist gives, or something ofthat nature that has been edited and designed by NWCD, would be sent out. And ifwe needed something and GPO can't produce it, then I think they probably still have the ability to go to other ... well, maybe still through GPO, and GPO sends it to somebody else. I don't know how that works. But it has been a tenuous situation at times!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tenuous, OK! You mentioned that you are a military historian. Have you had occasion to work here with the records for your own personal research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. A book I had published a few years ago was a book on Army wives on the American frontier. And [I] certainly used the records for that. I am writing a book right now on America and the China Relief Expedition in the Boxer Rebellion in China. And General Chaffee, Adna Chaffee's records from that are here. I wish that somebody has read it before we went to war in Iraq, because it is very similar. Chafee, when the Boxers were defeated, his forces moved into Peking. And the coalition forces ...really, other than France in the Revolutionary War, it is the first example ofAmericans participating in coalition warfare. Which is why there is some interest in it. But he talks a great deal about what it's like to occupy a city in which you have, still, enemies, as we have in Baghdad today. But nobody had looked at those records for probably ninety years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they had!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are making an important contribution, as a result ofyour work here with the agency?"}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.2401576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. A book I had published a few years ago was a book on Army wives on the American frontier. And [I] certainly used the records for that. I am writing a book right now on America and the China Relief Expedition in the Boxer Rebellion in China. And General Chaffee, Adna Chaffee's records from that are here. I wish that somebody has read it before we went to war in Iraq, because it is very similar. Chafee, when the Boxers were defeated, his forces moved into Peking. And the coalition forces ...really, other than France in the Revolutionary War, it is the first example ofAmericans participating in coalition warfare. Which is why there is some interest in it. But he talks a great deal about what it's like to occupy a city in which you have, still, enemies, as we have in Baghdad today. But nobody had looked at those records for probably ninety years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they had!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are making an important contribution, as a result ofyour work here with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I hope so, I plan to work on it; I am on chaptertwo ... to finish it. I want to make an important contribution to getting one ofmy bedrooms back! There are copies ofrecords stacked all over the place there!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, very good. So, going back to our list here, researcher interests and researcher demands are important here with the agency, ofcourse. How would you say that that has guided your work with the records; and you have mentioned the various guides that were published, and now we are entering into this digitization phase that the agency..."}]}
{"block_id": "assembly-oral-histories-00000:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.489064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they had!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you are making an important contribution, as a result ofyour work here with the agency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I hope so, I plan to work on it; I am on chaptertwo ... to finish it. I want to make an important contribution to getting one ofmy bedrooms back! There are copies ofrecords stacked all over the place there!"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, very good. So, going back to our list here, researcher interests and researcher demands are important here with the agency, ofcourse. How would you say that that has guided your work with the records; and you have mentioned the various guides that were published, and now we are entering into this digitization phase that the agency..."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, indeed ..."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, can you expand on that a little bit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 61.4885362417223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Professor Ganzer told NACA about this. They said, “We like that, we’ll fund it,” so I went off the GI Bill and I went to work for University of Washington Aeronautical Lab. I did all this work, the model work and everything, under money from NACA. NACA, they were working with universities a lot. We had a wind tunnel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was done in the university wind tunnel, not NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, this was done in a University of Washington wind tunnel, a Kirsten Wind Tunnel. This will give you an idea of how this thing was very complicated [referring to NACA Technical Note 2563, Experimental Investigation of Rolling Performance of Straight and Sweptback Flexible Wings with Various Ailerons], and I had to cut all these airfoils and build this all up. Being a model-builder, I loved doing it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did it all yourself, that’s great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I built this all myself. This shows in the wind tunnel, you can see how the wing is deflecting, here. We finished this project about the time that I was going to graduate, and in fact, we did finish it when I graduated. We sent the report to NACA, our write-up. [NACA] Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia] was reviewing this. At the same time, I had graduated and I had received a telegram from Ames, offering me $4,600 a year as a GS-5 [General Schedule pay scale]. I had some other offers from North American [Aviation, Incorporated] that were much better, but since I had been in the military for five years, it meant I could get 30 days’ vacation if I went to Ames, and also, I liked this area. I had a softness in my heart for NACA. I came down here and I reported on January 1, 1951."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been pretty amazing for you, reading those NACA reports when you were younger, in the library, and then having that published by the NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:38", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.858064527602828, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn’t offer me any jobs while Smitty was there. Honeywell, that’s one thing, you do all this work and you know it’s out there and they would ask you questions. I had the Learjet people come once, and we were down the hangar there, and they called us up to the Ad [Administration] Building here and they would ask us all these questions. On the Learjet, they had a thing where the stabilizer was fluttering. We figured out how to solve that. That was the thing about NACA, was that we were the source of the information, and the companies came to us to get this information. That was our job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To do the research?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. These reports, I should mention that to put out a report like this, [Gerald E.] Nitzberg was the head of the editorial, and he set up editorial committees, and on the editorial committee, you had the author, and then you had an expert senior scientist on the field, as the chairman, and then they liked to get somebody in between, and then a junior, somebody just starting. The junior member would usually want to change the grammar, and then, of course, the others would question your mathematics and all that, and so forth. Editorial committees were a major, major thing. NACA just did not put out false information—everything had to be checked and rechecked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take for a report this size, which is a pretty good-sized report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To publish? Sometimes, it’d take about a year before it was published. They were a little faster when it was confidential. Confidential reports were thinner. With this, this is a confidential report, here, and with this, parts of this were put out as thinner reports. Leading up to this would maybe be three or four reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The memorandums were smaller and then the note was the larger document, usually?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.508960586225363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. These reports, I should mention that to put out a report like this, [Gerald E.] Nitzberg was the head of the editorial, and he set up editorial committees, and on the editorial committee, you had the author, and then you had an expert senior scientist on the field, as the chairman, and then they liked to get somebody in between, and then a junior, somebody just starting. The junior member would usually want to change the grammar, and then, of course, the others would question your mathematics and all that, and so forth. Editorial committees were a major, major thing. NACA just did not put out false information—everything had to be checked and rechecked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take for a report this size, which is a pretty good-sized report?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To publish? Sometimes, it’d take about a year before it was published. They were a little faster when it was confidential. Confidential reports were thinner. With this, this is a confidential report, here, and with this, parts of this were put out as thinner reports. Leading up to this would maybe be three or four reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The memorandums were smaller and then the note was the larger document, usually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the comments I got one time was they wanted my appendix. There was an MIT professor that wrote a paper on my Appendix A [NACA Technical Note 4147, Measure D and Predicted Dynamic Response Characteristics of a Flexible Airplane to Elevator Control over a Frequency Range Including Three Structural Modes], only he didn’t know it. He did it independently. Somebody said, “Hey, that is just like your Appendix A.” I thought, “Oh, wow, that’s nice.” [Appendices A, B, and C derive equations of motion in matrix algebra including three structural modes.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had your work validated, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:42", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.343289540250403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To publish? Sometimes, it’d take about a year before it was published. They were a little faster when it was confidential. Confidential reports were thinner. With this, this is a confidential report, here, and with this, parts of this were put out as thinner reports. Leading up to this would maybe be three or four reports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The memorandums were smaller and then the note was the larger document, usually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the comments I got one time was they wanted my appendix. There was an MIT professor that wrote a paper on my Appendix A [NACA Technical Note 4147, Measure D and Predicted Dynamic Response Characteristics of a Flexible Airplane to Elevator Control over a Frequency Range Including Three Structural Modes], only he didn’t know it. He did it independently. Somebody said, “Hey, that is just like your Appendix A.” I thought, “Oh, wow, that’s nice.” [Appendices A, B, and C derive equations of motion in matrix algebra including three structural modes.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had your work validated, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were ahead of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the length of time that it took for that B-47 project. It was quite a long time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.048099489167114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. One of the comments I got one time was they wanted my appendix. There was an MIT professor that wrote a paper on my Appendix A [NACA Technical Note 4147, Measure D and Predicted Dynamic Response Characteristics of a Flexible Airplane to Elevator Control over a Frequency Range Including Three Structural Modes], only he didn’t know it. He did it independently. Somebody said, “Hey, that is just like your Appendix A.” I thought, “Oh, wow, that’s nice.” [Appendices A, B, and C derive equations of motion in matrix algebra including three structural modes.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At least you had your work validated, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were ahead of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the length of time that it took for that B-47 project. It was quite a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, we just finished it in 1957, and about that time, there was talk of they were going to form NASA. They were talking about moving the flight research to Edwards. I really didn’t like that because I had been to Edwards so many times, and part of that was one time, at Edwards, they had a lot of guys lived in Hollister, [California], which was about 15 miles, 20 miles away, but a lot of the junior engineers lived in a Quonset hut out on the desert. I was down there for a month one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a little warm down there, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.831221654630127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were ahead of him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about the length of time that it took for that B-47 project. It was quite a long time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, we just finished it in 1957, and about that time, there was talk of they were going to form NASA. They were talking about moving the flight research to Edwards. I really didn’t like that because I had been to Edwards so many times, and part of that was one time, at Edwards, they had a lot of guys lived in Hollister, [California], which was about 15 miles, 20 miles away, but a lot of the junior engineers lived in a Quonset hut out on the desert. I was down there for a month one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a little warm down there, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The desert is dreadful. When the sandstorms start, it takes the paint off their cars. The other thing that disturbed me was that all of the guys that are working out there, in college, I was one of the top ping-pong players at UW, and practically all those guys could beat me. I went down there, all they did was every night, the only thing they did was play ping-pong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t have anything else to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.590246282922365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, we just finished it in 1957, and about that time, there was talk of they were going to form NASA. They were talking about moving the flight research to Edwards. I really didn’t like that because I had been to Edwards so many times, and part of that was one time, at Edwards, they had a lot of guys lived in Hollister, [California], which was about 15 miles, 20 miles away, but a lot of the junior engineers lived in a Quonset hut out on the desert. I was down there for a month one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a little warm down there, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The desert is dreadful. When the sandstorms start, it takes the paint off their cars. The other thing that disturbed me was that all of the guys that are working out there, in college, I was one of the top ping-pong players at UW, and practically all those guys could beat me. I went down there, all they did was every night, the only thing they did was play ping-pong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t have anything else to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was nothing to do. It’s not the greatest place to work. That’s when I decided, they said they were going to move down to Edwards, and that’s when I made a move. I moved to structural dynamics here, and I don’t know if Glenn [Bugos, Ames historian] gave you a copy of my book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. He mentioned that you had a book, but no, I don’t have a copy of it. I think he was supposed to leave it in his office this morning, and then we couldn’t get in there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.54471809213596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The desert is dreadful. When the sandstorms start, it takes the paint off their cars. The other thing that disturbed me was that all of the guys that are working out there, in college, I was one of the top ping-pong players at UW, and practically all those guys could beat me. I went down there, all they did was every night, the only thing they did was play ping-pong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn’t have anything else to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was nothing to do. It’s not the greatest place to work. That’s when I decided, they said they were going to move down to Edwards, and that’s when I made a move. I moved to structural dynamics here, and I don’t know if Glenn [Bugos, Ames historian] gave you a copy of my book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. He mentioned that you had a book, but no, I don’t have a copy of it. I think he was supposed to leave it in his office this morning, and then we couldn’t get in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That comes later. The other thing down there was I stayed at a motel one time and they said, “Be sure you get a heated pool.” Why do that? The desert is very dry, and I went out and dove in the pool, and I almost froze to death. It was cold—can you imagine, you’re out in the desert and all that heat, and you got to have a heated pool because the evaporation, the humidity is practically zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you fly back and forth? On what kind of plane did they fly you back and forth when you were working on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.60524232459551, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was nothing to do. It’s not the greatest place to work. That’s when I decided, they said they were going to move down to Edwards, and that’s when I made a move. I moved to structural dynamics here, and I don’t know if Glenn [Bugos, Ames historian] gave you a copy of my book?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. He mentioned that you had a book, but no, I don’t have a copy of it. I think he was supposed to leave it in his office this morning, and then we couldn’t get in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That comes later. The other thing down there was I stayed at a motel one time and they said, “Be sure you get a heated pool.” Why do that? The desert is very dry, and I went out and dove in the pool, and I almost froze to death. It was cold—can you imagine, you’re out in the desert and all that heat, and you got to have a heated pool because the evaporation, the humidity is practically zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you fly back and forth? On what kind of plane did they fly you back and forth when you were working on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a C-47, or it was a DC-3. George Cooper did most of the flying, but there was [William H. \"Bill\"] McAvoy and Larry Clousing, and they used to fly us back and forth. I don’t know how much I can say about the flight research. Would you like to hear about any of the other projects?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You mentioned, like 1957-58, and that transition, if you want to just talk about that transition?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.89471369399501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That comes later. The other thing down there was I stayed at a motel one time and they said, “Be sure you get a heated pool.” Why do that? The desert is very dry, and I went out and dove in the pool, and I almost froze to death. It was cold—can you imagine, you’re out in the desert and all that heat, and you got to have a heated pool because the evaporation, the humidity is practically zero."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you fly back and forth? On what kind of plane did they fly you back and forth when you were working on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a C-47, or it was a DC-3. George Cooper did most of the flying, but there was [William H. \"Bill\"] McAvoy and Larry Clousing, and they used to fly us back and forth. I don’t know how much I can say about the flight research. Would you like to hear about any of the other projects?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. You mentioned, like 1957-58, and that transition, if you want to just talk about that transition?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This project was wound up just about the time NASA formed. I was giving talks. I don’t know, if you wanted, I have an extra copy of this if you want it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.886933251282848, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and then we quickly took it down and took it out, and they slammed the doors on us. One hour. I don’t know what they had in there, but they had something they didn’t want out in the open. That completed the B-47 project, and it’s all these reports out there. We had reported to the IAS [Institute of the Aeronautical Sciences]. Have you had anybody talk about the tri-annual inspections?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ve had some people mention them, but it looks like you have some documents there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was 1955, and we flew the airplane up here, and it was part of the display. I’ll let you have this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you sure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I have a couple of them, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can send them back to you if you’d like to have them back. That’s not a problem."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.31881472364761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was 1955, and we flew the airplane up here, and it was part of the display. I’ll let you have this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you sure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I have a couple of them, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can send them back to you if you’d like to have them back. That’s not a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know—I got so much stuff, and I have a lot of this. One of these, I think I have several copies. We had a talk that went with this. Everybody around the Center here, they had talks they gave and congressmen showed up, and then you had people from industry. You’ve probably heard about the inspection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that they would have a lot of times, celebrities or famous people would come through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.465349692941786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I have a couple of them, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can send them back to you if you’d like to have them back. That’s not a problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know—I got so much stuff, and I have a lot of this. One of these, I think I have several copies. We had a talk that went with this. Everybody around the Center here, they had talks they gave and congressmen showed up, and then you had people from industry. You’ve probably heard about the inspection?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that they would have a lot of times, celebrities or famous people would come through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All kinds of people. I think [Henry J. E.] Reid was the Director of Langley. Yes, Reid was the Director. We made a model when we had it on springs and we have a driver and we’d oscillate it and the wings flap and so forth. It was kind of neat, but I don’t think it’s shown in here. The airplane was here, and the wings from push-down to pull-up, the wingtips would flex 16 feet, from pull-down to push-up. The figure you usually hear quoted is 5 feet, but that’s not in the extreme maneuvers that we were doing.\\n\\n This is Ames, and this shows Ames is mostly high-speed. Here’s your project. Some of the things we do in wind tunnels, this vapor screen. I never did see one of those, but it’s something, you can see the vortices and everything. We had things like a shadowgraph, where you can see the turbulence, and of course, shock waves. The 14-foot transonic wind tunnel was where I went in structural dynamics, and that’s what my book is on. That was what was put out for the tri-annual inspection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the different projects that were presented, did they all make these books, or was this something that y’all decided to do on that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.26586381844665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All kinds of people. I think [Henry J. E.] Reid was the Director of Langley. Yes, Reid was the Director. We made a model when we had it on springs and we have a driver and we’d oscillate it and the wings flap and so forth. It was kind of neat, but I don’t think it’s shown in here. The airplane was here, and the wings from push-down to pull-up, the wingtips would flex 16 feet, from pull-down to push-up. The figure you usually hear quoted is 5 feet, but that’s not in the extreme maneuvers that we were doing.\\n\\n This is Ames, and this shows Ames is mostly high-speed. Here’s your project. Some of the things we do in wind tunnels, this vapor screen. I never did see one of those, but it’s something, you can see the vortices and everything. We had things like a shadowgraph, where you can see the turbulence, and of course, shock waves. The 14-foot transonic wind tunnel was where I went in structural dynamics, and that’s what my book is on. That was what was put out for the tri-annual inspection."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All the different projects that were presented, did they all make these books, or was this something that y’all decided to do on that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were more than that around—more talk. Every branch had a talk. Some of them had displays. For the congressmen and all the other people that showed up, everything was straightforward. The last day, we had one for just the Ames people, and so we all got to go around and see all the displays. What we did, we hammed it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had more fun on that last day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a fun deal, and it was full of laughs. With ours, we put a squeaker on our flexible airplane, and it went, “Squeak,” like a squeaky door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed with NASA, right, when the transition happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.07318202049628, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think there were more than that around—more talk. Every branch had a talk. Some of them had displays. For the congressmen and all the other people that showed up, everything was straightforward. The last day, we had one for just the Ames people, and so we all got to go around and see all the displays. What we did, we hammed it up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had more fun on that last day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a fun deal, and it was full of laughs. With ours, we put a squeaker on our flexible airplane, and it went, “Squeak,” like a squeaky door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed with NASA, right, when the transition happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wanted to stay at Ames, and I thought that flight research was moving. Flight research developed into—they started developing simulators. Most of the guys I know that stayed with flight worked on simulators. Have you ever seen a simulator? Okay, you’ve been on one where you fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven’t really been on them, but I’ve seen them."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 30.081313356106975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was a fun deal, and it was full of laughs. With ours, we put a squeaker on our flexible airplane, and it went, “Squeak,” like a squeaky door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You stayed with NASA, right, when the transition happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wanted to stay at Ames, and I thought that flight research was moving. Flight research developed into—they started developing simulators. Most of the guys I know that stayed with flight worked on simulators. Have you ever seen a simulator? Okay, you’ve been on one where you fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven’t really been on them, but I’ve seen them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing—Ames had a 4-degree freedom simulator down here, and everybody who came here wanted to fly on it. When I was here, I have had a committee I was running, and everybody wanted to fly the simulator. You can set up different airports. I really don’t know that much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You switched and you went to a different area, though, when NASA took over?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.64590372900775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wanted to stay at Ames, and I thought that flight research was moving. Flight research developed into—they started developing simulators. Most of the guys I know that stayed with flight worked on simulators. Have you ever seen a simulator? Okay, you’ve been on one where you fly?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven’t really been on them, but I’ve seen them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing—Ames had a 4-degree freedom simulator down here, and everybody who came here wanted to fly on it. When I was here, I have had a committee I was running, and everybody wanted to fly the simulator. You can set up different airports. I really don’t know that much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You switched and you went to a different area, though, when NASA took over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to structural dynamics, and that’s a longer story than this. That’s right up to today. It wasn’t all at Ames. The other thing at Ames, we had a baseball team, we played football, we had a ski club. This area is so great for recreation, and I did a lot of skiing. I skied almost every weekend. Friday night, we’d drive up to Dodge Ridge, which is fairly close, here, about a 2 ½ -hour drive. Ski in a weekend, and come back Sunday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of activities that involved the families, too, I would assume, during the NACA time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 22.93989303223083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing—Ames had a 4-degree freedom simulator down here, and everybody who came here wanted to fly on it. When I was here, I have had a committee I was running, and everybody wanted to fly the simulator. You can set up different airports. I really don’t know that much about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You switched and you went to a different area, though, when NASA took over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to structural dynamics, and that’s a longer story than this. That’s right up to today. It wasn’t all at Ames. The other thing at Ames, we had a baseball team, we played football, we had a ski club. This area is so great for recreation, and I did a lot of skiing. I skied almost every weekend. Friday night, we’d drive up to Dodge Ridge, which is fairly close, here, about a 2 ½ -hour drive. Ski in a weekend, and come back Sunday night."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were a lot of activities that involved the families, too, I would assume, during the NACA time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had picnics, and of course, the individual branches, we had annual parties. With NACA, I was a bachelor, so actually, I did things like I toured Europe. My model airplanes, I was on the US team that flew the world champs in Germany, and so I went to Germany and then I toured Europe. I bought a Mercedes. Is this being recorded?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.444312385470162, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we had picnics, and of course, the individual branches, we had annual parties. With NACA, I was a bachelor, so actually, I did things like I toured Europe. My model airplanes, I was on the US team that flew the world champs in Germany, and so I went to Germany and then I toured Europe. I bought a Mercedes. Is this being recorded?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. It’s okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. There was one time at Ames where they were short of funds, so I said, “Okay, can I have six weeks’ leave without pay?” They said sure. I spent six weeks touring Europe, and I was writing articles on model airplanes for a German magazine. They showed me around and helped me buy a used Mercedes. I bought this Mercedes 190 for $1,600. It was a sedan, and it was a used car. It was two years old. They took me there. Alfried Gymnich was the editor of Der Flugmodellbau, and he took me to this place. The Germans are very precise about everything, and they have all these used cars, there. They call them pre-owned, now. I looked at this one and he had a price on it, I asked him, “What should I bid on it?” He didn’t understand. I said, “In the U.S., we buy a car, we offer them a little less.” He said, “How can you do that? That’s what it’s worth.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s no haggling, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “If you want another, I got another car.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the car back here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.049235983855738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. There was one time at Ames where they were short of funds, so I said, “Okay, can I have six weeks’ leave without pay?” They said sure. I spent six weeks touring Europe, and I was writing articles on model airplanes for a German magazine. They showed me around and helped me buy a used Mercedes. I bought this Mercedes 190 for $1,600. It was a sedan, and it was a used car. It was two years old. They took me there. Alfried Gymnich was the editor of Der Flugmodellbau, and he took me to this place. The Germans are very precise about everything, and they have all these used cars, there. They call them pre-owned, now. I looked at this one and he had a price on it, I asked him, “What should I bid on it?” He didn’t understand. I said, “In the U.S., we buy a car, we offer them a little less.” He said, “How can you do that? That’s what it’s worth.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There’s no haggling, huh?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “If you want another, I got another car.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the car back here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just put it on a ship. There was a little seawater that got into mine. Wasn’t too bad. They deliver them up in San Francisco, in a warehouse, and you show up and you have to get it started. You have to put the liquids in and everything. I had this little 190, and I still have it. Later on, when I got married, we went on our honeymoon in our Mercedes. I didn’t get married until we were in NASA. My wife won’t let me sell it—there are a lot of people that want to buy it. It’s sitting in my front yard now, but I drive a [Toyota] Prius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little more practical."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.72137331539526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He said, “If you want another, I got another car.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get the car back here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just put it on a ship. There was a little seawater that got into mine. Wasn’t too bad. They deliver them up in San Francisco, in a warehouse, and you show up and you have to get it started. You have to put the liquids in and everything. I had this little 190, and I still have it. Later on, when I got married, we went on our honeymoon in our Mercedes. I didn’t get married until we were in NASA. My wife won’t let me sell it—there are a lot of people that want to buy it. It’s sitting in my front yard now, but I drive a [Toyota] Prius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little more practical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My kids learned to drive in this Mercedes 190. It’s got a couple of hundred thousand miles on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine by now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.579303683772512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They just put it on a ship. There was a little seawater that got into mine. Wasn’t too bad. They deliver them up in San Francisco, in a warehouse, and you show up and you have to get it started. You have to put the liquids in and everything. I had this little 190, and I still have it. Later on, when I got married, we went on our honeymoon in our Mercedes. I didn’t get married until we were in NASA. My wife won’t let me sell it—there are a lot of people that want to buy it. It’s sitting in my front yard now, but I drive a [Toyota] Prius."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A little more practical."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My kids learned to drive in this Mercedes 190. It’s got a couple of hundred thousand miles on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine by now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to give talks, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that, that you did that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.310337426413902, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My kids learned to drive in this Mercedes 190. It’s got a couple of hundred thousand miles on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I can imagine by now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to give talks, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that, that you did that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was giving a talk in the auditorium over here on a B-47, and in NACA, you prepared a talk and all these slides, and then you memorized it. You had to memorize it, and then we had all these rehearsals. Smith J. would be over there, listening to me, and Harry Goett, and of course, all your buddies and everybody. You would rehearse in front of them. I was giving this talk, and then you come in, when you’re ready to give it at the conference, and here’s this auditorium full of all scientists, most of them with foreign accents, which makes the question period rather difficult. I’m going through my talk, and I had it memorized. The trouble with memorizing is that you kind of go along and you’re doing it by rote, and you’re not thinking. I’m going along and this slide came up.\\n\\n I introduced the slide and I was talking about introducing a slide. I had this slide that came up on the thing, and I looked up there, and it was the wrong slide. Then, I looked down at Harry Goett, our division chief, he was twitching in his chair. I looked over at DeFrance, and DeFrance was kind of wondering what I was going to do. Then, I realized what I had done—I had skipped, in my talk, a little section, and I had introduced the slide following that one. I said, “Next slide,” so then the right slide came up. It turned out to be a terrific deal because the first question that came up on my talk was what the slide that I had skipped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is was about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.233708251571002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used to give talks, here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that, that you did that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was giving a talk in the auditorium over here on a B-47, and in NACA, you prepared a talk and all these slides, and then you memorized it. You had to memorize it, and then we had all these rehearsals. Smith J. would be over there, listening to me, and Harry Goett, and of course, all your buddies and everybody. You would rehearse in front of them. I was giving this talk, and then you come in, when you’re ready to give it at the conference, and here’s this auditorium full of all scientists, most of them with foreign accents, which makes the question period rather difficult. I’m going through my talk, and I had it memorized. The trouble with memorizing is that you kind of go along and you’re doing it by rote, and you’re not thinking. I’m going along and this slide came up.\\n\\n I introduced the slide and I was talking about introducing a slide. I had this slide that came up on the thing, and I looked up there, and it was the wrong slide. Then, I looked down at Harry Goett, our division chief, he was twitching in his chair. I looked over at DeFrance, and DeFrance was kind of wondering what I was going to do. Then, I realized what I had done—I had skipped, in my talk, a little section, and I had introduced the slide following that one. I said, “Next slide,” so then the right slide came up. It turned out to be a terrific deal because the first question that came up on my talk was what the slide that I had skipped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is was about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they asked about that, so it was slide number seven, as I remember. I said, “Could you put up slide number seven?” Then, I answered the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You covered it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 23.7453188291, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they asked about that, so it was slide number seven, as I remember. I said, “Could you put up slide number seven?” Then, I answered the question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You covered it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re up there and suddenly, fortunately, I got through that one. That’s enough on the talks, I guess, but the talks I gave for IAS and so forth went very well. Those weren’t as complicated. Some of the talks we gave, memorizing was difficult."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine because it’s very detailed information. A lot of technical information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When you have a lot of slides, it’s harder to memorize. Memorizing is not my good points."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever work on anything here at Ames after it changed to NASA, and then the whole build-up for the space program? Did you work on any of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.280930999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody got up, and every Ph.D., they had all these things, they were ready to get all these contracts. I had one that was different than everybody else, but I’m sure they went back and figured out a way to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went around to all those different places, what were you looking for? What were you and John Houbolt looking for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We wrote a report—and I don’t know where it is; I couldn’t find it—and we told what the manufacturers could do for us. NASA eventually did that. Everything was contracted out. Our machine shop, contracted out their stuff, our machinists began writing specs [specifications] and stuff like that. The model shop gradually faded away. To get anything done, you had to write specs and have somebody do it for you, and it delayed everything. That was a part of what was so good about NACA, was that we did everything in-house here. When I wanted a model or something, I would go over to the model shop and I’d talk to the guys who were doing it, and while they were building the thing, I would go over there and we would talk. If they had a problem, we would figure it out. It was real quick. You didn’t have to write a bunch of specs and so forth. The people they had at the Center here were very, very good. A lot of that carried over into NASA. A lot of the same people were here. The model shop, for example, I had them building space vehicles. We can talk about it separate—that wouldn’t be into this. That’s a real long story."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you promised your wife you’d be home by 11:30, we probably don’t have time to talk about it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I pretty well wrapped it up. I can’t think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay with NASA? When did you retire?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:112", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.2851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I pretty well wrapped it up. I can’t think of anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did you stay with NASA? When did you retire?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left NASA in 1971. I was here 20 years. Under [President Richard M.] Nixon, NASA went through a restructuring. It turned out that we had a structural dynamics branch here, and Langley had a structural dynamics division, so to cut out duplication, they cut our branch. They offered me a job to do the B-1 bomber, but I had a hot project. I used to work with Headquarters, and they had the money for me to continue my work. I went to Nielsen Engineering [& Research, Inc.], and I got a contract from Ames to do what I was doing, continue my work. That worked out very well. I’ve written a book on what came out of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got to work on what you wanted to work on, but just as a contractor instead of a federal employee?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing, that many engineers would come here and talk to me, they’d say, “How do you get to do all this and finish and get a report and everything?” A lot of them would say, “I get started on a project and the finances drop out and they cut it off.” Here, they just let you go, as long as you had the ideas, and you could finish. It was up to you to decide it was time to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the NACA times?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:116", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the thing, that many engineers would come here and talk to me, they’d say, “How do you get to do all this and finish and get a report and everything?” A lot of them would say, “I get started on a project and the finances drop out and they cut it off.” Here, they just let you go, as long as you had the ideas, and you could finish. It was up to you to decide it was time to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the NACA times?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s what I decided with Randomdec, which was a patent at NASA, and I went out and developed that. I’m still working on it—I wrote my book, and at 92 years old, I published my book [Randomdec in Retrospect: Including new information on triggering]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now on Amazon, and it’s sold throughout Europe. I’m working on Volume II. That’s a long story. I’ll show you that when we’re through with the—yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t mentioned about NACA that you have there on your notes that you wanted to talk about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:118", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That’s what I decided with Randomdec, which was a patent at NASA, and I went out and developed that. I’m still working on it—I wrote my book, and at 92 years old, I published my book [Randomdec in Retrospect: Including new information on triggering]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now on Amazon, and it’s sold throughout Europe. I’m working on Volume II. That’s a long story. I’ll show you that when we’re through with the—yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t mentioned about NACA that you have there on your notes that you wanted to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The problem with this, I didn’t get to rehearse it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s fine. You’ve done great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00948:120", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It’s now on Amazon, and it’s sold throughout Europe. I’m working on Volume II. That’s a long story. I’ll show you that when we’re through with the—yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything we haven’t mentioned about NACA that you have there on your notes that you wanted to talk about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The problem with this, I didn’t get to rehearse it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s fine. You’ve done great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Last night, I started thinking about doing more on that, how I was working for NACA before I even got here. I was lucky to get a quick start that way. I probably left something out, here. There were so many wonderful people I had, who I worked with. There are all the reports and scientific advances. Did I mention, one thing they told me—and I think it’s in this NACA and You—have you seen that one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven’t seen that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00219:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 75.82363272932052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was asked before they announced the crew did I have any problem with it. They obviously wanted to see if there was a personality conflict, and I said, \"Absolutely not.\"\\n\\n It's kind of funny, Mr. [George W. S.] Abbey used to tell the crews they'd been selected. I had gone over to Mr. Abbey's office earlier, and the crew was given a notice to report to his office. When you got a call to Mr. Abbey's office, you were never quite sure why you were going. You hope it's good. But as I heard this story from them, they just happened to all arrive at the elevator at the same time, you know. As soon as the elevator doors closed, they looked at each other and said, \"Yippee!\" Because they had figured out kind of what it was going to be for, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you have a group of that many folks, and all in the astronaut corps, it should be a little giveaway there. That's good. That's good. Well, it sounds like it was a good team that all came together, and things did go very well on the mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the flight went really well. I don't remember, did I discuss the plumbing problem we had?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think I told you about the first try at launch and we had the pad abort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, I don't think we had gotten that far."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00219:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 38, "return_to_go": 89.87965995456068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got a big laugh about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly did have some interesting times for this mission, but it did all work out pretty well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It worked out real well. We had an uneventful landing, and we filmed some of the IMAX movie on our flight, The Dream is Alive. Fortunately I made a good landing and hit the spot. That was when Cronkite says something about landing on the spot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you'd certainly trained enough for it to make sure that you did, I'm sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, really, you don't try to hit the spot. You want to make a good landing and get the orbiter down. Your setup is hopefully going to get you close, I mean, obviously, but the landing process itself, you take what you get. I just lucked out and landed right on the spot. Even though I'd set up for it, there's no guarantee. You're going to get the little wind variations and slight variation in touchdown speed. You know, you might miss it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you landed right on the mark, so all went well there. After this mission, of course, you came back and went through some post-mission activities and such. But then with a pretty short turnaround, you were assigned to 61-A, which in light of what you were talking about here with organizing several people for the bathroom and activities like that, 61-A had actually eight crew members on board. That was a pretty full mission. If you could tell us some about that with the assignment for the crew, and this was a very unique mission, Spacelab, and it was oriented with the German side of things. If you could tell us about some of the early parts of assigning the crews, and beginning the training, and then we'll kind of work through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.733318043770975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were ready to go to Houston. It would be like it was at Edwards Air Force Base testing machines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about the training that you underwent as an AsCan [Astronaut Candidate] when you arrived here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed listening to the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo crews brief us on their space missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was like really neat. At that time, it was like wow, you get to sit here and listen to these people you heard about a long time ago who flew these missions. I thought that was really neat. I also enjoyed traveling with my astronaut group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that your class was called the Needless Nineteen. Do you recall that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.37035338196775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I really enjoyed listening to the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo crews brief us on their space missions."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How neat."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was like really neat. At that time, it was like wow, you get to sit here and listen to these people you heard about a long time ago who flew these missions. I thought that was really neat. I also enjoyed traveling with my astronaut group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that your class was called the Needless Nineteen. Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t. Who told you that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dave [David C.] Leestma."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.967059313297499, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was like really neat. At that time, it was like wow, you get to sit here and listen to these people you heard about a long time ago who flew these missions. I thought that was really neat. I also enjoyed traveling with my astronaut group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand that your class was called the Needless Nineteen. Do you recall that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t. Who told you that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dave [David C.] Leestma."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave Leestma? Did you talk to him? He’s a good guy. Whatever he tells you is good. He’s one of the finest human beings I’ve ever known. Dave Leestma. I really like him. Haven’t seen him in a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s still over at JSC, as far as I know."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.630065903663887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don’t. Who told you that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dave [David C.] Leestma."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave Leestma? Did you talk to him? He’s a good guy. Whatever he tells you is good. He’s one of the finest human beings I’ve ever known. Dave Leestma. I really like him. Haven’t seen him in a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s still over at JSC, as far as I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a fantastic human being. He’s going straight to heaven when he dies. I think he’s the only man I can say that about. He will spend less than one second in purgatory. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice compliment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.477851004070985, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dave Leestma? Did you talk to him? He’s a good guy. Whatever he tells you is good. He’s one of the finest human beings I’ve ever known. Dave Leestma. I really like him. Haven’t seen him in a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s still over at JSC, as far as I know."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a fantastic human being. He’s going straight to heaven when he dies. I think he’s the only man I can say that about. He will spend less than one second in purgatory. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice compliment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s really a nice man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other anecdotes or stories you recall from training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.41983444896776, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s a fantastic human being. He’s going straight to heaven when he dies. I think he’s the only man I can say that about. He will spend less than one second in purgatory. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a nice compliment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s really a nice man."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any other anecdotes or stories you recall from training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, we did our normal study, and we liked it. Everybody was happy. It was a lot of fun. I mean, I don’t remember any particular things. I remember Bill [William F.] Fisher always had a lot of good jokes that he would tell. On our trips he was always telling some kind of doctor jokes. Have you ever heard doctor jokes? You’re a doctor, but not a medical doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, not a medical doctor. He’s a medical doctor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.975104257984885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not really. I mean, we did our normal study, and we liked it. Everybody was happy. It was a lot of fun. I mean, I don’t remember any particular things. I remember Bill [William F.] Fisher always had a lot of good jokes that he would tell. On our trips he was always telling some kind of doctor jokes. Have you ever heard doctor jokes? You’re a doctor, but not a medical doctor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, not a medical doctor. He’s a medical doctor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What area are you a doctor in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In history. If you have a bunch of history doctors together, do you all have some doctor jokes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I think they’re mainly about students and grades and things like that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.527893619983203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What area are you a doctor in?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In history. If you have a bunch of history doctors together, do you all have some doctor jokes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I think they’re mainly about students and grades and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Medical doctors, man, I couldn’t believe listening to Bill Fisher and some of his stories. Are you going to interview him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s on our list."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.36432624442578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In history. If you have a bunch of history doctors together, do you all have some doctor jokes?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t think so. I think they’re mainly about students and grades and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Medical doctors, man, I couldn’t believe listening to Bill Fisher and some of his stories. Are you going to interview him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s on our list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could tell him when you see him, just say that John said you had some very interesting medical doctor jokes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask him if he’ll put that on the record."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.293695827139754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Medical doctors, man, I couldn’t believe listening to Bill Fisher and some of his stories. Are you going to interview him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He’s on our list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could tell him when you see him, just say that John said you had some very interesting medical doctor jokes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask him if he’ll put that on the record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that’s all. So I remember Bill Fisher’s jokes. But the most important thing was being able to sit and listen to an Apollo astronaut crew tell you about their mission. I thought it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very. You were onsite when STS-1 launched. Did you have any responsibilities for the mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.881884252377503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You could tell him when you see him, just say that John said you had some very interesting medical doctor jokes. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We’ll have to ask him if he’ll put that on the record."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that’s all. So I remember Bill Fisher’s jokes. But the most important thing was being able to sit and listen to an Apollo astronaut crew tell you about their mission. I thought it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very. You were onsite when STS-1 launched. Did you have any responsibilities for the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1; what was I doing? We all were doing different little things. What was I doing? Oh, I was down at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] helping out in the family area, and the only reason I remember, now that you say that—I thought I wasn’t going to remember for a minute—but the only reason I remember is because I remember on the loudspeaker, “Joe [H.] Engle is now making another pass in his T-38 to make sure that the runway is safe.” So I had to be down there if I was hearing that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you doing with the family at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.757649169308337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay, that’s all. So I remember Bill Fisher’s jokes. But the most important thing was being able to sit and listen to an Apollo astronaut crew tell you about their mission. I thought it was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very. You were onsite when STS-1 launched. Did you have any responsibilities for the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1; what was I doing? We all were doing different little things. What was I doing? Oh, I was down at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] helping out in the family area, and the only reason I remember, now that you say that—I thought I wasn’t going to remember for a minute—but the only reason I remember is because I remember on the loudspeaker, “Joe [H.] Engle is now making another pass in his T-38 to make sure that the runway is safe.” So I had to be down there if I was hearing that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you doing with the family at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was called an extended family escort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see the launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.952943521453708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "STS-1; what was I doing? We all were doing different little things. What was I doing? Oh, I was down at KSC [Kennedy Space Center, Florida] helping out in the family area, and the only reason I remember, now that you say that—I thought I wasn’t going to remember for a minute—but the only reason I remember is because I remember on the loudspeaker, “Joe [H.] Engle is now making another pass in his T-38 to make sure that the runway is safe.” So I had to be down there if I was hearing that. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what were you doing with the family at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was called an extended family escort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 34.392159468281896, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was called an extended family escort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to see the launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I thought it was pretty incredible. I mean, anytime you went down there and saw even the vehicle and climbed in the vehicle, you were pretty excited, thinking, “So when do I get on? Why are these guys wearing glasses launching in the Space Shuttle? They’re old.” That’s what I was really thinking. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you’re sharing this stuff with us. I understand you worked on the Orbiter Head Up Display. Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.43573274253544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I thought it was pretty incredible. I mean, anytime you went down there and saw even the vehicle and climbed in the vehicle, you were pretty excited, thinking, “So when do I get on? Why are these guys wearing glasses launching in the Space Shuttle? They’re old.” That’s what I was really thinking. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you’re sharing this stuff with us. I understand you worked on the Orbiter Head Up Display. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a fun thing. I had worked on a Head Up display in the Air Force on the A-7 aircraft and I worked on the Head Up Display in the Jaguar with the British. Therefore, when I came to NASA, it was a natural fit that I’d work on the HUD [Head Up Display]. The biggest challenge on the Head Up Display in the Space Shuttle was the older established astronauts had not flown military aircraft with a HUD. Now, the younger guys, the ’78 and the ’80 group pilots had all flown aircraft with a HUD. There was some resistance to the HUD from the older astronauts. But, I had a lot of fun with the HUD. I liked working on it, and I liked working with the company in California who was doing it for us and getting it into the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was working on that with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.484147491706043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I thought it was pretty incredible. I mean, anytime you went down there and saw even the vehicle and climbed in the vehicle, you were pretty excited, thinking, “So when do I get on? Why are these guys wearing glasses launching in the Space Shuttle? They’re old.” That’s what I was really thinking. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m glad you’re sharing this stuff with us. I understand you worked on the Orbiter Head Up Display. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a fun thing. I had worked on a Head Up display in the Air Force on the A-7 aircraft and I worked on the Head Up Display in the Jaguar with the British. Therefore, when I came to NASA, it was a natural fit that I’d work on the HUD [Head Up Display]. The biggest challenge on the Head Up Display in the Space Shuttle was the older established astronauts had not flown military aircraft with a HUD. Now, the younger guys, the ’78 and the ’80 group pilots had all flown aircraft with a HUD. There was some resistance to the HUD from the older astronauts. But, I had a lot of fun with the HUD. I liked working on it, and I liked working with the company in California who was doing it for us and getting it into the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was working on that with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The guy who was first working on it in the ’78 group was Dave [S. David] Griggs. He left the HUD assignment before it got into the Orbiter, and unfortunately when I saw it, I felt it was too cluttered—displayed too much information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about changing that? What changes did you make?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.87127499078449, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was a fun thing. I had worked on a Head Up display in the Air Force on the A-7 aircraft and I worked on the Head Up Display in the Jaguar with the British. Therefore, when I came to NASA, it was a natural fit that I’d work on the HUD [Head Up Display]. The biggest challenge on the Head Up Display in the Space Shuttle was the older established astronauts had not flown military aircraft with a HUD. Now, the younger guys, the ’78 and the ’80 group pilots had all flown aircraft with a HUD. There was some resistance to the HUD from the older astronauts. But, I had a lot of fun with the HUD. I liked working on it, and I liked working with the company in California who was doing it for us and getting it into the Orbiter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else was working on that with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The guy who was first working on it in the ’78 group was Dave [S. David] Griggs. He left the HUD assignment before it got into the Orbiter, and unfortunately when I saw it, I felt it was too cluttered—displayed too much information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about changing that? What changes did you make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to me it had too much data on it. It only needed four or five very important things on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you worked with a company in California. What company was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 37.63474998976054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The guy who was first working on it in the ’78 group was Dave [S. David] Griggs. He left the HUD assignment before it got into the Orbiter, and unfortunately when I saw it, I felt it was too cluttered—displayed too much information."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about changing that? What changes did you make?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to me it had too much data on it. It only needed four or five very important things on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you worked with a company in California. What company was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can research it. We can always add it later, too. What sort of work did you do out in California with the company?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.37194443306727, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, to me it had too much data on it. It only needed four or five very important things on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you worked with a company in California. What company was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can research it. We can always add it later, too. What sort of work did you do out in California with the company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very important, because they were the people who were actually making the HUD. When I first discussed my suggestions with them, I smiled because they said, “John, what you’re telling us is you want this display more like an F-18 HUD.”\\n\\n And I said, “Yeah, you could say that.”\\n\\n And they said, “Well, we tried to tell your people that a couple of years ago, but they wanted all this stuff on it.” Anyway, it was sort of funny.\\n\\n But the fundamental problem that I ran into with the Space Shuttle HUD was the senior flyers in the Astronaut Office were not familiar with a HUD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever take any of those flyers up on the STA [Shuttle Training Aircraft] and show them how it worked?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.30216048118586, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We can research it. We can always add it later, too. What sort of work did you do out in California with the company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very important, because they were the people who were actually making the HUD. When I first discussed my suggestions with them, I smiled because they said, “John, what you’re telling us is you want this display more like an F-18 HUD.”\\n\\n And I said, “Yeah, you could say that.”\\n\\n And they said, “Well, we tried to tell your people that a couple of years ago, but they wanted all this stuff on it.” Anyway, it was sort of funny.\\n\\n But the fundamental problem that I ran into with the Space Shuttle HUD was the senior flyers in the Astronaut Office were not familiar with a HUD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever take any of those flyers up on the STA [Shuttle Training Aircraft] and show them how it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had them evaluate the HUD in the STA. Dick [Richard H.] Truly and John [W.] Young were the two people who I thought really ended up liking the HUD with a small subset of information. Then, of course, once they liked it, making the format change on the HUD was easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when was the HUD first put on the Space Shuttle then and actually used in a mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 40.33573386798429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, that was very important, because they were the people who were actually making the HUD. When I first discussed my suggestions with them, I smiled because they said, “John, what you’re telling us is you want this display more like an F-18 HUD.”\\n\\n And I said, “Yeah, you could say that.”\\n\\n And they said, “Well, we tried to tell your people that a couple of years ago, but they wanted all this stuff on it.” Anyway, it was sort of funny.\\n\\n But the fundamental problem that I ran into with the Space Shuttle HUD was the senior flyers in the Astronaut Office were not familiar with a HUD."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever take any of those flyers up on the STA [Shuttle Training Aircraft] and show them how it worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I had them evaluate the HUD in the STA. Dick [Richard H.] Truly and John [W.] Young were the two people who I thought really ended up liking the HUD with a small subset of information. Then, of course, once they liked it, making the format change on the HUD was easy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when was the HUD first put on the Space Shuttle then and actually used in a mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On STS-6, the version with too much information flew. Dick Truly flew with the new version on STS-8 version. I think all astronauts felt the simple version was a useful tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned STS-7, and we know that you were CapCom [Capsule Communicator], actually, on STS-7. You were CapCom for seven flights. You want to talk about some of those experiences and your memories?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.858483439855632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, just with him. He did that, I think, one-on-one with people always, is what I think, unless he just did that with me, which I can’t believe. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, I understand that there were payload specialists appointed to this flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there sure were. Nigel [R.] Wood was the prime payload specialist, from U.K. The other person was Richard [A.] Farrimond from the British Army. Nigel was a Royal Air Force officer. Anyway, so I thought that was really neat, since I’d served with the Royal Air Force. I thought they were good, just because they were Royal Air Force. And there was a medical doctor, Pritawi Sudarmo, from Indonesia. She was the other prime payload specialist. We were going to deploy PAMs [Payload Assist Modules]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did the astronaut corps think of the appointment of payload specialists to the crews at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they were neat people, myself. I really thought they were very, very talented people, any of the payload specialists that I saw, met, and worked with were very, very talented, sharp people. I thought they brought a lot to the missions.\\n\\n Then, of course, later, when I had our crew—there was a large crew much later on STS-58; boy, we had very, very talented payload specialists. I mean, they were so sharp I couldn’t believe it. So I really thought they were good. My answer is I thought they were good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did they train with the crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 34.28720382206181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there sure were. Nigel [R.] Wood was the prime payload specialist, from U.K. The other person was Richard [A.] Farrimond from the British Army. Nigel was a Royal Air Force officer. Anyway, so I thought that was really neat, since I’d served with the Royal Air Force. I thought they were good, just because they were Royal Air Force. And there was a medical doctor, Pritawi Sudarmo, from Indonesia. She was the other prime payload specialist. We were going to deploy PAMs [Payload Assist Modules]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did the astronaut corps think of the appointment of payload specialists to the crews at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they were neat people, myself. I really thought they were very, very talented people, any of the payload specialists that I saw, met, and worked with were very, very talented, sharp people. I thought they brought a lot to the missions.\\n\\n Then, of course, later, when I had our crew—there was a large crew much later on STS-58; boy, we had very, very talented payload specialists. I mean, they were so sharp I couldn’t believe it. So I really thought they were good. My answer is I thought they were good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did they train with the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t train very long, and something happened. I don’t remember what. I have no idea, and it’s not Challenger yet. For whatever reason, our payload was changed, and I honestly don’t remember what occurred, how that occurred when we lost our two payload specialists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Challenger. Where were you when the Challenger accident happened?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.652448691179785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought they were neat people, myself. I really thought they were very, very talented people, any of the payload specialists that I saw, met, and worked with were very, very talented, sharp people. I thought they brought a lot to the missions.\\n\\n Then, of course, later, when I had our crew—there was a large crew much later on STS-58; boy, we had very, very talented payload specialists. I mean, they were so sharp I couldn’t believe it. So I really thought they were good. My answer is I thought they were good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did they train with the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t train very long, and something happened. I don’t remember what. I have no idea, and it’s not Challenger yet. For whatever reason, our payload was changed, and I honestly don’t remember what occurred, how that occurred when we lost our two payload specialists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Challenger. Where were you when the Challenger accident happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out at Base Ops [Operations] at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], getting ready to fly in a T-38. As soon as the Challenger launched, I was going to walk outside and fly down to Kennedy [Space Center], and they were going to put some data tapes in the backseat of my T-38, and I was going to fly it back here. That was my job on the Challenger flight, so I was literally standing out there. I saw the launch on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after you saw what had happened on TV, what did you do? Did you go back to the Center?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.05827632353309, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t train very long, and something happened. I don’t remember what. I have no idea, and it’s not Challenger yet. For whatever reason, our payload was changed, and I honestly don’t remember what occurred, how that occurred when we lost our two payload specialists."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned Challenger. Where were you when the Challenger accident happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out at Base Ops [Operations] at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], getting ready to fly in a T-38. As soon as the Challenger launched, I was going to walk outside and fly down to Kennedy [Space Center], and they were going to put some data tapes in the backseat of my T-38, and I was going to fly it back here. That was my job on the Challenger flight, so I was literally standing out there. I saw the launch on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after you saw what had happened on TV, what did you do? Did you go back to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I knew it wasn’t good. It was like wow, this is very bad. This is not going to be good. This is bad. I felt sorry for the families on board. I’d known Dick [Francis R.] Scobee at Edwards. So that wasn’t good. From a family viewpoint, you felt bad about everything, but you also were concerned about what did this mean to the future of you flying in space. I mean, there’s no question those were of equal weight. Of course, Mike [Michael J.] Smith was on there. He was from our group. Anyway, Challenger wasn’t real good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about leaving the astronaut corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.842529248370106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out at Base Ops [Operations] at Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas], getting ready to fly in a T-38. As soon as the Challenger launched, I was going to walk outside and fly down to Kennedy [Space Center], and they were going to put some data tapes in the backseat of my T-38, and I was going to fly it back here. That was my job on the Challenger flight, so I was literally standing out there. I saw the launch on television."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And after you saw what had happened on TV, what did you do? Did you go back to the Center?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I knew it wasn’t good. It was like wow, this is very bad. This is not going to be good. This is bad. I felt sorry for the families on board. I’d known Dick [Francis R.] Scobee at Edwards. So that wasn’t good. From a family viewpoint, you felt bad about everything, but you also were concerned about what did this mean to the future of you flying in space. I mean, there’s no question those were of equal weight. Of course, Mike [Michael J.] Smith was on there. He was from our group. Anyway, Challenger wasn’t real good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about leaving the astronaut corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not because of the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your assignments after the Challenger accident?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 39.825032498189, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I knew it wasn’t good. It was like wow, this is very bad. This is not going to be good. This is bad. I felt sorry for the families on board. I’d known Dick [Francis R.] Scobee at Edwards. So that wasn’t good. From a family viewpoint, you felt bad about everything, but you also were concerned about what did this mean to the future of you flying in space. I mean, there’s no question those were of equal weight. Of course, Mike [Michael J.] Smith was on there. He was from our group. Anyway, Challenger wasn’t real good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any thoughts about leaving the astronaut corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Not because of the accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of your assignments after the Challenger accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought I had a good assignment. I went out to California to work with the Marquardt Division of the CCI Corporation who make the reaction control jets. I worked a lot with them to mitigate a burn through failure mode on the reaction control jets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand you were also working on the development of contingency abort procedures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 44.89497694121698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, our crew was lucky. About two months after the accident, we were assigned as a prime crew to train for a simulated June launch. The idea was to keep the whole training system running. In June, we had a two-day simulation mission. Then we actually went back into training again, once they decided STS-26 was going to be a TDRS [Tracking and Data Relay Satellite] flight, we then started to train on the STS-26 training load. As a result, when I launched on STS-29, I felt very prepared. I felt like when I launched on STS-29 that I’d been through my third training flow, which meant I really felt very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any interesting anecdotes that you remember from those training sessions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One thing that was disappointing was that we lost Anna [L.] Fisher, and I never understood that. Originally she was the MS [Mission Specialist]-2 on that first assigned crew, and I really liked Anna. We had become good buddies, and I really liked working with her.\\n\\n Approximately a year before our real launch in ’89, I was on a PR [public relations] trip in New York, and I got a phone call, and I was told, “John, I just wanted to call you because,”—I think it was from Dan [Daniel C.] Brandenstein—“I just wanted to call you, because your crew has been announced for this STS-29 mission, and Anna is not on the crew.”\\n\\n I never understood this change. I remember that was a big downer to me. It should have been an upper, because I was being told I was assigned to a crew, STS-29, that would launch in March 1989. But it wasn’t."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did it change the dynamics of the crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot. A lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you give an example?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 17.948608900000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would just say that what surprised me was time compression, and why I have no idea, but from the time we did our de-orbit burn, we were on the runway, in real time, one hour later, it felt like it was five minutes, and why, I have no idea. Because I thought I was very prepared, but it was a huge time compression. It just went by like that. [Snaps fingers.] And you almost wondered, “What did I see? What was this instrument reading at this time?” And I could hardly remember it, which meant that I was way behind the ball. I think I was riding it, not involved with taking care of it. So I remember that. I remember time compression, significant time compression.\\n\\n Then at the end of the flight, I was wondering if I was going to have any problems. For whatever reason, it was like going and getting in my car and driving over here and then getting out, which really surprised me, but I was really happy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are your memories of getting out of the Space Shuttle and seeing your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number one memory is, I already told you, the first thing I told Brenda, “Brenda, I love you, but if I could, I’d go right back out to that launch pad and launch right now again.” That’s how much I enjoyed being in space. That’s the number one thing I remember. She would tell you that, too, if she were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like those first couple of days being back from space, other than wanting to go back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number one desire was to get reassigned to a crew and get back into orbit. And of course, we were only on a five-day mission, which isn’t like it’s some great separation, because it’s not. I mean, what’s five days? It happens to people all the time here, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides going to the White House, what other trips did you take after this flight was flown?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.165121000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number one memory is, I already told you, the first thing I told Brenda, “Brenda, I love you, but if I could, I’d go right back out to that launch pad and launch right now again.” That’s how much I enjoyed being in space. That’s the number one thing I remember. She would tell you that, too, if she were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was it like those first couple of days being back from space, other than wanting to go back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number one desire was to get reassigned to a crew and get back into orbit. And of course, we were only on a five-day mission, which isn’t like it’s some great separation, because it’s not. I mean, what’s five days? It happens to people all the time here, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides going to the White House, what other trips did you take after this flight was flown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back to my hometown in San Antonio [Texas]. They had a couple of things there, a couple of big parades. The Battle of Flowers Parade was one. I also went to Granby High School in Norfolk, Virginia, where I graduated in 1960. I was the graduation commencement speaker. I went back to the Air Force Academy and spoke to cadets. I went to the athletic awards dinner in June. So a whole lot of things happened like that. They were kind of fun, because you were going back to places that you had been at.\\n\\n Then I got reassigned in July to a new crew, so it sort of just stopped the public appearances very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me just go back and ask you just a couple of general questions about the flight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.40569, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My number one desire was to get reassigned to a crew and get back into orbit. And of course, we were only on a five-day mission, which isn’t like it’s some great separation, because it’s not. I mean, what’s five days? It happens to people all the time here, right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Besides going to the White House, what other trips did you take after this flight was flown?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back to my hometown in San Antonio [Texas]. They had a couple of things there, a couple of big parades. The Battle of Flowers Parade was one. I also went to Granby High School in Norfolk, Virginia, where I graduated in 1960. I was the graduation commencement speaker. I went back to the Air Force Academy and spoke to cadets. I went to the athletic awards dinner in June. So a whole lot of things happened like that. They were kind of fun, because you were going back to places that you had been at.\\n\\n Then I got reassigned in July to a new crew, so it sort of just stopped the public appearances very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me just go back and ask you just a couple of general questions about the flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that got going for a little bit, and then it was like it was completely interrupted, and everything had to be canceled that was planned when I was reassigned to that STS-33 crew. But I wasn’t unhappy about that, but anyway, I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine you were pleased."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.784099999999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back to my hometown in San Antonio [Texas]. They had a couple of things there, a couple of big parades. The Battle of Flowers Parade was one. I also went to Granby High School in Norfolk, Virginia, where I graduated in 1960. I was the graduation commencement speaker. I went back to the Air Force Academy and spoke to cadets. I went to the athletic awards dinner in June. So a whole lot of things happened like that. They were kind of fun, because you were going back to places that you had been at.\\n\\n Then I got reassigned in July to a new crew, so it sort of just stopped the public appearances very quickly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me just go back and ask you just a couple of general questions about the flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that got going for a little bit, and then it was like it was completely interrupted, and everything had to be canceled that was planned when I was reassigned to that STS-33 crew. But I wasn’t unhappy about that, but anyway, I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine you were pleased."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very pleased. Go ahead, back to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were on board the Space Shuttle in flight, did you have a chance to fly the Orbiter as the pilot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anyway, that got going for a little bit, and then it was like it was completely interrupted, and everything had to be canceled that was planned when I was reassigned to that STS-33 crew. But I wasn’t unhappy about that, but anyway, I remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine you were pleased."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very pleased. Go ahead, back to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were on board the Space Shuttle in flight, did you have a chance to fly the Orbiter as the pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On entry, of course, I think it was a pretty normal concept that the commander would, at some point in the landing phase, say. “You got it,” and you’d fly it for, I don’t remember, five or ten seconds, whatever it was, and then give it back to the commander and he’d fly it. So I did that, and when I did it, I thought, “Gee, this feels just like the STA.” That was the biggest value of it, for you to realize that your STA training was very, very good.\\n\\n But the biggest thing I got out of that flight, that surprised me, was the time compression the last hour prior to landing, which really helped me prepare for subsequent flights. I realized I had to think more about that last hour so I was more prepared, because if you’re more prepared, that doesn’t happen to you. As it turns out, by the time I flew STS-58 on entry, I felt like I was driving my car over here today. I mean, everything, the world in front of you, every bank angle, everything, I felt like I was seeing everything, and that was completely different than STS-29. When STS-29 was over, I felt I hadn’t seen anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the day of launch? Do you have any memories or recollections of that day?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 9.61, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was very pleased. Go ahead, back to—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were on board the Space Shuttle in flight, did you have a chance to fly the Orbiter as the pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. On entry, of course, I think it was a pretty normal concept that the commander would, at some point in the landing phase, say. “You got it,” and you’d fly it for, I don’t remember, five or ten seconds, whatever it was, and then give it back to the commander and he’d fly it. So I did that, and when I did it, I thought, “Gee, this feels just like the STA.” That was the biggest value of it, for you to realize that your STA training was very, very good.\\n\\n But the biggest thing I got out of that flight, that surprised me, was the time compression the last hour prior to landing, which really helped me prepare for subsequent flights. I realized I had to think more about that last hour so I was more prepared, because if you’re more prepared, that doesn’t happen to you. As it turns out, by the time I flew STS-58 on entry, I felt like I was driving my car over here today. I mean, everything, the world in front of you, every bank angle, everything, I felt like I was seeing everything, and that was completely different than STS-29. When STS-29 was over, I felt I hadn’t seen anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the day of launch? Do you have any memories or recollections of that day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to share those thoughts with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00039:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The change can be in either direction. I’m going to call it an unknown direction. But when you see that, someone you’ve been training with for a year and a half, two years, and it’s like this face is talking, but they’re not the same person, which is really weird."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really weird, but I remember after my second flight, I did, I looked at whoever the flight surgeon was debriefing me, and I said, “I got a very important question. I want to know who gives a debrief like me.” Then when I got to fly with Shannon, that was good. Then we flew again on STS-58 together, so that was also good. I mean, when you have someone grounded with you, that helps. It helps you understand other things that are happening.\\n\\n But there are a lot of funny things that happen on a space flight. I mean, really absolute funny things. In fact, Shannon and I, on 58, were laughing so much, the tears were coming out of our eyes, we were laughing so much. Sometimes we’d get together and just look at each other and just laugh so hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think next time we’ll look forward to some of those stories, because this is about the time we should end our interview today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, but I probably shouldn’t tell you those stories. That’s why when you asked me what to talk about, I know that it wouldn’t be fair to other people, and I don’t like to do that. But anyway, they are funny. If I can think of any that are okay to tell you, I’ll do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be great, and we look forward to speaking with you next time about those flights."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00166:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can go in the altitude chamber [refer to\\n\\n photo 20\\n\\n ], but I don’t go in the hyperbaric chamber, because I’ve been bent a few times, so they don’t want me diving. For 20 years, I was the only inside tender that did out treatment dives with all the patients. So I just got bent a couple times while treating patients, so after that, they decided I could go in the altitude chamber, because I can pre-breathe, but pre-breathing doesn’t do you any good going down, because that’s the worst thing you can do is set yourself up for O2 toxicity.\\n\\n I like the doctors that I work with. One’s a retired colonel, Army, and one’s retired Navy, a Navy captain, but he was a Colonel in the Air Force. He switched sides. Finally he got it right. I always throw those little digs in. We always are after each other at work. I always call them bus drivers, and they say, “Well, at least we’re not swabbies.” That old stuff. That’ll go on time immemorial. That will never stop. I imagine you ask that of other people, that’s got to be a hard question for them to answer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes it is the most difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably if I drive out of here and I’ll say, “Why didn’t I think of that?” But I can’t think of one thing that really stands out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If there’s not anything else that you want to add, then I want to thank you for joining us today and agreeing to participate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I hope it’s interesting for somebody. I don’t want anyone to look at five minutes and say, “Shut that off.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think it was very interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.649288237395698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "News and news news broadcasts, both radio and TV. I was one of those young Americans who was very optimistic with the election and JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so when you decided to join the Peace Corps, did you have any specific country or project that you had in mind that you wanted to try to get to where you wanted to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I really I always think I was taking something of South America or Latin America because I had I did know some Spanish. I had traveled in Mexico previously. So so was kind of inclined to go to Latin America. And also the Peace Corps sent me a very encouraging letter. They said they were looking for volunteers to work in programs of a very bitter experience and dairy farming and work for a dairy agency which sold them for dairy cattle production. I guess they kind of felt it was a logical choice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you probably premium because there weren't probably that many people with your experience. So what were your friends and families reactions when you decided to go? Were they surprised that they worry about you or what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were not surprised. They back that they were a little bit disappointed because I was going to wait for maybe two or three years and I thought a little bit about his dictation because I was so up with my father and the family farm and aside from my work on the outside. I also provided quite a little help on the farm work. But I felt that my horizons there in Massachusetts were kind of limited. And so they were they said, go ahead, get to experience. Yeah. We can hire somebody else to take your place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So. What project can you tell us a little bit about when you received the notice that you were accepted and what project you were asked to be part of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.381837330118143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they were not surprised. They back that they were a little bit disappointed because I was going to wait for maybe two or three years and I thought a little bit about his dictation because I was so up with my father and the family farm and aside from my work on the outside. I also provided quite a little help on the farm work. But I felt that my horizons there in Massachusetts were kind of limited. And so they were they said, go ahead, get to experience. Yeah. We can hire somebody else to take your place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So. What project can you tell us a little bit about when you received the notice that you were accepted and what project you were asked to be part of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was asked to be part of this Bolivian project, and the government said the government had built a plant there, which is known to people and they needed volunteers to work with the dairy farmers, improving dairy production in the area. They also painted some pictures of Cochabamba, which were quite encouraging. And rather than giving the image of going to a remote village that said you're going to be located in a small city with all kinds of conveniences and so forth, which is a little bit contrary to the image of a Peace Corps man going out to remote villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's the image that was there. And I guess that OK, so did you do anything special to get ready to go to the Peace Corps or prepare yourself or just put up your suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a little. I went to the local library and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found out where Bolivia was? That's what I did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.646485922353492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was asked to be part of this Bolivian project, and the government said the government had built a plant there, which is known to people and they needed volunteers to work with the dairy farmers, improving dairy production in the area. They also painted some pictures of Cochabamba, which were quite encouraging. And rather than giving the image of going to a remote village that said you're going to be located in a small city with all kinds of conveniences and so forth, which is a little bit contrary to the image of a Peace Corps man going out to remote villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, that's the image that was there. And I guess that OK, so did you do anything special to get ready to go to the Peace Corps or prepare yourself or just put up your suitcase?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a little. I went to the local library and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found out where Bolivia was? That's what I did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew where Bolivia was, very much so. In fact, that my first recollection of Bolivia was and I'm dating myself during World War Two, I was reading an article in Reader's Digest it this article is quite critical of me at that time. And of course, it occurred in Bolivia as being just in the country where my head was mined. I didn't know where the tropical areas of the country. And maybe that's where I first found out about Simón Patiño."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, Patiño, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.940539913726102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did a little. I went to the local library and"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Found out where Bolivia was? That's what I did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew where Bolivia was, very much so. In fact, that my first recollection of Bolivia was and I'm dating myself during World War Two, I was reading an article in Reader's Digest it this article is quite critical of me at that time. And of course, it occurred in Bolivia as being just in the country where my head was mined. I didn't know where the tropical areas of the country. And maybe that's where I first found out about Simón Patiño."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, Patiño, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they they thought that maybe an American program was not at that time. This would be for the agrarian reform, but to tell that our program was not effective and there was quite a bit of corruption and misuse of funds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you knew more than most of us then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.267266570806779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew where Bolivia was, very much so. In fact, that my first recollection of Bolivia was and I'm dating myself during World War Two, I was reading an article in Reader's Digest it this article is quite critical of me at that time. And of course, it occurred in Bolivia as being just in the country where my head was mined. I didn't know where the tropical areas of the country. And maybe that's where I first found out about Simón Patiño."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, Patiño, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they they thought that maybe an American program was not at that time. This would be for the agrarian reform, but to tell that our program was not effective and there was quite a bit of corruption and misuse of funds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you knew more than most of us then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And furthermore, I think I maybe read a little bit about Bolivia from grade school geography. And we picture Bolivia at that time as being a high desert plateau, which they had the Amazon Indians and also read another book. I took a journey one time in university, took the genetics course, and the professor, I think, was quite concerned about maintaining racial, pure racial purity. And of course, that's one way that that happens when you look at that time, which we race conscious and segregation. Yeah, but anyway, he used as an example maybe that because of the mixture of people, races and reported races, that kind of deteriorated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Now let's go back to the training where you got to training in Arizona. What were your impressions? What did you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.408073967563087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because they they thought that maybe an American program was not at that time. This would be for the agrarian reform, but to tell that our program was not effective and there was quite a bit of corruption and misuse of funds."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you knew more than most of us then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And furthermore, I think I maybe read a little bit about Bolivia from grade school geography. And we picture Bolivia at that time as being a high desert plateau, which they had the Amazon Indians and also read another book. I took a journey one time in university, took the genetics course, and the professor, I think, was quite concerned about maintaining racial, pure racial purity. And of course, that's one way that that happens when you look at that time, which we race conscious and segregation. Yeah, but anyway, he used as an example maybe that because of the mixture of people, races and reported races, that kind of deteriorated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Now let's go back to the training where you got to training in Arizona. What were your impressions? What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he got off the plane, I was greeted by a blast of hot air, but Bob Woff was there to greet us. And he he made us feel right at home and he took us to get to the dormitories at the Arizona State. And that's where we were a number of weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do primarily in the training? What did what was your what were the most outstanding memories that you have of that training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.34230440840343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And furthermore, I think I maybe read a little bit about Bolivia from grade school geography. And we picture Bolivia at that time as being a high desert plateau, which they had the Amazon Indians and also read another book. I took a journey one time in university, took the genetics course, and the professor, I think, was quite concerned about maintaining racial, pure racial purity. And of course, that's one way that that happens when you look at that time, which we race conscious and segregation. Yeah, but anyway, he used as an example maybe that because of the mixture of people, races and reported races, that kind of deteriorated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, OK. Now let's go back to the training where you got to training in Arizona. What were your impressions? What did you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he got off the plane, I was greeted by a blast of hot air, but Bob Woff was there to greet us. And he he made us feel right at home and he took us to get to the dormitories at the Arizona State. And that's where we were a number of weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do primarily in the training? What did what was your what were the most outstanding memories that you have of that training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think some of the training, for instance, on the orientation class is about Bolivia, and we had about two or three different so-called authorities of Bolivia with a new series of lectures. And it seemed to be from the particular perspective, the first first lecture was spent close to that time in remote Indian villages and the image of Bolivia as being a remote village. People would find Indians and everything was very primitive, limited, and many of the people, of course, did not speak Spanish. You better learn Quechua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the language classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.380338231559367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, when he got off the plane, I was greeted by a blast of hot air, but Bob Woff was there to greet us. And he he made us feel right at home and he took us to get to the dormitories at the Arizona State. And that's where we were a number of weeks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do primarily in the training? What did what was your what were the most outstanding memories that you have of that training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think some of the training, for instance, on the orientation class is about Bolivia, and we had about two or three different so-called authorities of Bolivia with a new series of lectures. And it seemed to be from the particular perspective, the first first lecture was spent close to that time in remote Indian villages and the image of Bolivia as being a remote village. People would find Indians and everything was very primitive, limited, and many of the people, of course, did not speak Spanish. You better learn Quechua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the language classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a language that has been quite effective past I have a bit of a basis in Spanish, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about getting up at 3:00 a.m. to do all that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.533709146177074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think some of the training, for instance, on the orientation class is about Bolivia, and we had about two or three different so-called authorities of Bolivia with a new series of lectures. And it seemed to be from the particular perspective, the first first lecture was spent close to that time in remote Indian villages and the image of Bolivia as being a remote village. People would find Indians and everything was very primitive, limited, and many of the people, of course, did not speak Spanish. You better learn Quechua."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think of the language classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a language that has been quite effective past I have a bit of a basis in Spanish, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about getting up at 3:00 a.m. to do all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were used to doing that with the dairy probably."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.815232384641194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, a language that has been quite effective past I have a bit of a basis in Spanish, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about getting up at 3:00 a.m. to do all that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were used to doing that with the dairy probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, it was better to be a real worry because that was cooler. But we didn't like we didn't mind running it. Yeah. And it was fun to climb up the ropes on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you what about Puerto Rico and about Puerto Rico? Was that experience different for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.794702649601327, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were used to doing that with the dairy probably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, it was better to be a real worry because that was cooler. But we didn't like we didn't mind running it. Yeah. And it was fun to climb up the ropes on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you what about Puerto Rico and about Puerto Rico? Was that experience different for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not exactly a Puerto Rico, but it certainly was what was required because I like the greenery, just a round of Arizona. And I enjoyed the physical training in Puerto Rico, some of the intensity rappelling down the dam with a little bit hair raising. But we managed, and I did have some association with it. Sometimes the tendency to wander around and explore and maintain one of the reasons would may be invite me into their houses and they want to talk to me because I could talk a little Spanish. And so it's quite interesting and. So they always receive me very well. I felt a little bit ashamed of myself because they're not NARA in Massachusetts. They were quite a few quarters of Puerto Rican immigrants probably go brought here to work in tobacco harvesting and grazing. And they were kind of looked down upon in their area. And that doesn't seem to Michelle. I was being treated very positively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't think that they would have gotten the same treatment in your."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.771891832890363, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In fact, it was better to be a real worry because that was cooler. But we didn't like we didn't mind running it. Yeah. And it was fun to climb up the ropes on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you what about Puerto Rico and about Puerto Rico? Was that experience different for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not exactly a Puerto Rico, but it certainly was what was required because I like the greenery, just a round of Arizona. And I enjoyed the physical training in Puerto Rico, some of the intensity rappelling down the dam with a little bit hair raising. But we managed, and I did have some association with it. Sometimes the tendency to wander around and explore and maintain one of the reasons would may be invite me into their houses and they want to talk to me because I could talk a little Spanish. And so it's quite interesting and. So they always receive me very well. I felt a little bit ashamed of myself because they're not NARA in Massachusetts. They were quite a few quarters of Puerto Rican immigrants probably go brought here to work in tobacco harvesting and grazing. And they were kind of looked down upon in their area. And that doesn't seem to Michelle. I was being treated very positively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't think that they would have gotten the same treatment in your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so we're trying to see if, in fact, anybody with a Spanish name was at that time was kind of looked at it as being for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, we had an extended training, as you recall, where we ended up in Miami. What did you think when you got to Miami and we heard the Kennedy speech about the missile crisis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.857657592100404, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not exactly a Puerto Rico, but it certainly was what was required because I like the greenery, just a round of Arizona. And I enjoyed the physical training in Puerto Rico, some of the intensity rappelling down the dam with a little bit hair raising. But we managed, and I did have some association with it. Sometimes the tendency to wander around and explore and maintain one of the reasons would may be invite me into their houses and they want to talk to me because I could talk a little Spanish. And so it's quite interesting and. So they always receive me very well. I felt a little bit ashamed of myself because they're not NARA in Massachusetts. They were quite a few quarters of Puerto Rican immigrants probably go brought here to work in tobacco harvesting and grazing. And they were kind of looked down upon in their area. And that doesn't seem to Michelle. I was being treated very positively."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't think that they would have gotten the same treatment in your."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so we're trying to see if, in fact, anybody with a Spanish name was at that time was kind of looked at it as being for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, we had an extended training, as you recall, where we ended up in Miami. What did you think when you got to Miami and we heard the Kennedy speech about the missile crisis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he said, I was actually a little bit concerned of being right there on the court. I said, if we're going to be bombed, maybe Miami is going to be the first place"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "90 miles away."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.064063991222671, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so we're trying to see if, in fact, anybody with a Spanish name was at that time was kind of looked at it as being for the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, we had an extended training, as you recall, where we ended up in Miami. What did you think when you got to Miami and we heard the Kennedy speech about the missile crisis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he said, I was actually a little bit concerned of being right there on the court. I said, if we're going to be bombed, maybe Miami is going to be the first place"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "90 miles away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I was not too worried, however, because I felt that this crisis would probably be resolved. And I did not think that it seemed at that time that we did not get it. We were not advised of the dangerous situation, was maybe to keep us volunteers kind of at ease."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all the people from Miami were leaving and we were still there. So what did you think about the Vermont where he ended up there? Did you ever consider that maybe we would never get to Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.182293323580746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he said, I was actually a little bit concerned of being right there on the court. I said, if we're going to be bombed, maybe Miami is going to be the first place"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "90 miles away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I was not too worried, however, because I felt that this crisis would probably be resolved. And I did not think that it seemed at that time that we did not get it. We were not advised of the dangerous situation, was maybe to keep us volunteers kind of at ease."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all the people from Miami were leaving and we were still there. So what did you think about the Vermont where he ended up there? Did you ever consider that maybe we would never get to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was wondering, as I said, would we? I know what he said when we landed at the airport, the airport was only about 50 miles to my home here. I'm going home again. And anyway, the training in Vermont was quite interesting and so forth, and I didn't feel really had it. It was kind of an unstructured situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were kind of, I guess, in limbo. Ready to go, but not quite able to be there yet."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.31365924842305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but I was not too worried, however, because I felt that this crisis would probably be resolved. And I did not think that it seemed at that time that we did not get it. We were not advised of the dangerous situation, was maybe to keep us volunteers kind of at ease."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And all the people from Miami were leaving and we were still there. So what did you think about the Vermont where he ended up there? Did you ever consider that maybe we would never get to Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was wondering, as I said, would we? I know what he said when we landed at the airport, the airport was only about 50 miles to my home here. I'm going home again. And anyway, the training in Vermont was quite interesting and so forth, and I didn't feel really had it. It was kind of an unstructured situation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were kind of, I guess, in limbo. Ready to go, but not quite able to be there yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some we had a little physical training course up there, too. And the volunteers complained about the cold in November. And I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't bother you. OK, well, so now let's go back to when we first got to Bolivia. What were your impressions once you actually set foot in the airport or."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.49834475113957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had some we had a little physical training course up there, too. And the volunteers complained about the cold in November. And I was used to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't bother you. OK, well, so now let's go back to when we first got to Bolivia. What were your impressions once you actually set foot in the airport or."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I set forth and then I got off the plane. I could feel that we were at a very high altitude and so forth and so forth, but nothing I didn't feel like I was going to faint. I had been at some high altitude because. But then again, we were taken from the most notable part and was very impressed by the view of a pop up on the level. And here there's a whole series of unfolding before you. And I think at that time, that early morning local time, we had a view that tools, which was a very impressive view. And then, of course, when really I was at the hotel to play palace, we were advised to rest. Well, I couldn't I couldn't sleep in the afternoon. I went down the street, looked everything very interesting. We didn't street markets. When he came back for supper, everybody was asking, where have you been squabbling around the city? Is it worth your time? You actually take a risk notice at that particular time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And was contrasted as maybe a later question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's OK. Go ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.664827501266188, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I set forth and then I got off the plane. I could feel that we were at a very high altitude and so forth and so forth, but nothing I didn't feel like I was going to faint. I had been at some high altitude because. But then again, we were taken from the most notable part and was very impressed by the view of a pop up on the level. And here there's a whole series of unfolding before you. And I think at that time, that early morning local time, we had a view that tools, which was a very impressive view. And then, of course, when really I was at the hotel to play palace, we were advised to rest. Well, I couldn't I couldn't sleep in the afternoon. I went down the street, looked everything very interesting. We didn't street markets. When he came back for supper, everybody was asking, where have you been squabbling around the city? Is it worth your time? You actually take a risk notice at that particular time?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And was contrasted as maybe a later question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's OK. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much to the contrast in the population here with people? For instance, your view of the Caucasian race requested conventional wisdom to try to get some anyway to talk to controllers who had their own particular address and so forth, and then also the street vendors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of color and. Yes, and textures. So, OK, now then we went to college, but we have I don't know about you, but I have I that was a hair raising trip for me on those narrow roads."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.96091944585132, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And was contrasted as maybe a later question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's OK. Go ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much to the contrast in the population here with people? For instance, your view of the Caucasian race requested conventional wisdom to try to get some anyway to talk to controllers who had their own particular address and so forth, and then also the street vendors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of color and. Yes, and textures. So, OK, now then we went to college, but we have I don't know about you, but I have I that was a hair raising trip for me on those narrow roads."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You sure it was a hair raising trip to me. Much of the way I was driving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were driving. Oh my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.401021606501468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "How much to the contrast in the population here with people? For instance, your view of the Caucasian race requested conventional wisdom to try to get some anyway to talk to controllers who had their own particular address and so forth, and then also the street vendors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of color and. Yes, and textures. So, OK, now then we went to college, but we have I don't know about you, but I have I that was a hair raising trip for me on those narrow roads."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You sure it was a hair raising trip to me. Much of the way I was driving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were driving. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was maybe being extra cautious because I did not. And I guess I get criticized for one of the leaders of the group because I was going too slow. That's a way. This is a very rough road, those gravel and so forth. And I want to be careful with this vehicle is never mind, we've got to get the culture far before it gets dark. And it's kind of a hair raising drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peter, how old were you when you went in the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 14.890024007223852, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You sure it was a hair raising trip to me. Much of the way I was driving."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you were driving. Oh my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was maybe being extra cautious because I did not. And I guess I get criticized for one of the leaders of the group because I was going too slow. That's a way. This is a very rough road, those gravel and so forth. And I want to be careful with this vehicle is never mind, we've got to get the culture far before it gets dark. And it's kind of a hair raising drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peter, how old were you when you went in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty two. So you were a little bit older than some of the"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.32224889691539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was maybe being extra cautious because I did not. And I guess I get criticized for one of the leaders of the group because I was going too slow. That's a way. This is a very rough road, those gravel and so forth. And I want to be careful with this vehicle is never mind, we've got to get the culture far before it gets dark. And it's kind of a hair raising drive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Peter, how old were you when you went in the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty two. So you were a little bit older than some of the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was older, one of the older members of the crew. We did. I know when we started the initial training that we had a number of people I think of in the 60s and 70s, and I don't quite understand why they were they were rejected or did not pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't I don't know. I know Ralph Long was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.802498774350433, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thirty two. So you were a little bit older than some of the"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was older, one of the older members of the crew. We did. I know when we started the initial training that we had a number of people I think of in the 60s and 70s, and I don't quite understand why they were they were rejected or did not pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't I don't know. I know Ralph Long was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I know there was a gentleman named Ezra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.44722086038937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was older, one of the older members of the crew. We did. I know when we started the initial training that we had a number of people I think of in the 60s and 70s, and I don't quite understand why they were they were rejected or did not pass."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't I don't know. I know Ralph Long was."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I know there was a gentleman named Ezra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess he did not complete the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And well, who knows how they decided you would stay and he would go. Oh who knew."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.274689844877077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I know there was a gentleman named Ezra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess he did not complete the training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And well, who knows how they decided you would stay and he would go. Oh who knew."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. Oh no, no, no. I mean it was it was kind of a I don't know just what criteria they didn't use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I don't think anybody really knew. Yes. OK, so tell me a little bit about what you were doing in your job in Cochabamba. You’re working with the steel plant or"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.280745830444163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I've lived with the family. It was kind of an interesting case. I lived with the lady. Patty was said she had an apartment near the Plaza Colon, if you recall there in Cochabamba. And she was a lady from Luxembourg. And she was kind and kind of temperamental and so forth. And and she and her husband had come to Bolivia after World War Two, and they were worried that Europe was going to be involved in another war that's related to World War Two. Luxembourg, of course, was part of the German empire. And so she and her husband and their son came to Bolivia because they thought it'd be a good refuge from the European wars and so forth. And unfortunately, they were swindled in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they came with quite a bit of money. But then when they lost it in Bolivia and her husband ran off with a boyfriend, so she had to set up their own business, I guess she was a dressmaker. So that's how she made her living. But from the start, I noticed that she had quite a few resentments against Bolivians and used to go home. What they call it would be under her notice you of that and many I got wrong. All right. Whether she got tired of me sometimes that if I invaded by certain Bolivians to house because she felt that, well, she felt they might want to be robbed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I'm I did meet a number of interesting people. She will contact with some other fellow Europeans that were in refuges in Japan, but say,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you have a roommate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.423050922715737, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess they came with quite a bit of money. But then when they lost it in Bolivia and her husband ran off with a boyfriend, so she had to set up their own business, I guess she was a dressmaker. So that's how she made her living. But from the start, I noticed that she had quite a few resentments against Bolivians and used to go home. What they call it would be under her notice you of that and many I got wrong. All right. Whether she got tired of me sometimes that if I invaded by certain Bolivians to house because she felt that, well, she felt they might want to be robbed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That I'm I did meet a number of interesting people. She will contact with some other fellow Europeans that were in refuges in Japan, but say,"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you have a roommate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you just, it was just you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.756852991007083, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you just, it was just you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thing is, however, that after a few months, it became kind of difficult to live with her. Oh, OK. And you recommended that I maybe should seek water somewhere else. And eventually we did have a breakup. And I think she was also distressed because I was going out with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I eventually I moved into another place, which is actually a better location of their collection of Cochabamba cable, which which is much, much nicer location. There I stayed until I got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you get married after Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.952058878896759, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thing is, however, that after a few months, it became kind of difficult to live with her. Oh, OK. And you recommended that I maybe should seek water somewhere else. And eventually we did have a breakup. And I think she was also distressed because I was going out with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, dear."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I eventually I moved into another place, which is actually a better location of their collection of Cochabamba cable, which which is much, much nicer location. There I stayed until I got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you get married after Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, before. On December 26, 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. I didn’t realize."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.168954309885288, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I eventually I moved into another place, which is actually a better location of their collection of Cochabamba cable, which which is much, much nicer location. There I stayed until I got married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, did you get married after Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, before. On December 26, 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. I didn’t realize."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Day after Christmas Day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Christmas. Wow. OK, well I was a pretty significant change for you"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.521060344316986, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, before. On December 26, 1963."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow. I didn’t realize."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Day after Christmas Day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Christmas. Wow. OK, well I was a pretty significant change for you"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, that's for sure. I didn't expect to get married in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so then she came home with you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.023400382574428, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Day after Christmas Day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After Christmas. Wow. OK, well I was a pretty significant change for you"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, that's for sure. I didn't expect to get married in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so then she came home with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, ma'am. Yeah, he came home plus I adopted a son too. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so think about the end of your first year and were there any outstanding events come to your mind when you think back on your Peace Corps experience? Of course I guess meeting Yolanda."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.692667091749364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, that's for sure. I didn't expect to get married in Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so then she came home with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, ma'am. Yeah, he came home plus I adopted a son too. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so think about the end of your first year and were there any outstanding events come to your mind when you think back on your Peace Corps experience? Of course I guess meeting Yolanda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a radical change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that about the experience there that particularly stand out in your mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.32518565749929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, ma'am. Yeah, he came home plus I adopted a son too. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so think about the end of your first year and were there any outstanding events come to your mind when you think back on your Peace Corps experience? Of course I guess meeting Yolanda."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a radical change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that about the experience there that particularly stand out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course I felt that some I felt some at times, sometimes maybe frustrations with working with the Libyan farmers and structural limitations because they're included in Culture Club, because it had the agrarian reform back around 52 or 53. And I felt that so many of the farms that you find were maybe too small to really be economically effective and they did not have adequate irrigation water. And you know how it is only about one parent here you have the rainfall. Here you have a drought and there are many structural limitations. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you ever consider staying in Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.13909517499921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was a radical change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else that about the experience there that particularly stand out in your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course I felt that some I felt some at times, sometimes maybe frustrations with working with the Libyan farmers and structural limitations because they're included in Culture Club, because it had the agrarian reform back around 52 or 53. And I felt that so many of the farms that you find were maybe too small to really be economically effective and they did not have adequate irrigation water. And you know how it is only about one parent here you have the rainfall. Here you have a drought and there are many structural limitations. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you ever consider staying in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you change your mind?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.932327972221344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, of course I felt that some I felt some at times, sometimes maybe frustrations with working with the Libyan farmers and structural limitations because they're included in Culture Club, because it had the agrarian reform back around 52 or 53. And I felt that so many of the farms that you find were maybe too small to really be economically effective and they did not have adequate irrigation water. And you know how it is only about one parent here you have the rainfall. Here you have a drought and there are many structural limitations. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you ever consider staying in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you change your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came home and my parents really didn't want to hear me leaving and they really missed me, and that furthermore, I was kind of a little frustrated at first when he came back and I kind of had to get the American ways to manage the people again and. And I did have I did have work immediately, but I worked work for a while on a tobacco farm. And it worked in the paper factory. In the meantime, he had applied for permanent employment with the U.S. Department of Primary School Administration. Eventually, I was selected. And then, of course, I worked into that job, which for 30 years, I guess I became comfortable with this position, so I did not feel like maybe moving back to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. So you felt like it would be better to stay?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 18.813697746912602, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What made you change your mind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came home and my parents really didn't want to hear me leaving and they really missed me, and that furthermore, I was kind of a little frustrated at first when he came back and I kind of had to get the American ways to manage the people again and. And I did have I did have work immediately, but I worked work for a while on a tobacco farm. And it worked in the paper factory. In the meantime, he had applied for permanent employment with the U.S. Department of Primary School Administration. Eventually, I was selected. And then, of course, I worked into that job, which for 30 years, I guess I became comfortable with this position, so I did not feel like maybe moving back to Bolivia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah. So you felt like it would be better to stay?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And furthermore, our son Alexis is now happily enrolled in an American school. He got a long time. It didn't take long to learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that think back, where were you? Do you remember when Kennedy was assassinated?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 16.066293514706913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And furthermore, our son Alexis is now happily enrolled in an American school. He got a long time. It didn't take long to learn the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that think back, where were you? Do you remember when Kennedy was assassinated?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Everywhere you go, I will tell you the whole story. OK, I take the vacation down in November, down the alphabet to the countryside. And I saw the and also ended up in Peace Corps volunteers camped out in the real penny right at the end of civilization. Now, I remember that there was, it was a oven. They're made of Adobe, the lady with the use of a debate grid, just like they did in the old days, colonial days in our country. And there was a fire in it that ripped off the clothes. And I stayed there for a few days and I walked over from the countryside and I guess one thing lead to another, you know, I was on the truck together with a bunch of a bunch of campesinos who is also one Caucasian man with a I guess he was an engineer technician. He talked to me quite a bit because he felt maybe more interesting to talk to me than most of the time host that I'd made a point that I noticed him in that clearing. This is where it seemed to me like you're doing you're cultivating up and down is not going to cause erosion. Agency be concerned that you're more concerned about having the land cleared."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, probably didn't have any farming background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, well, you know, up the area, I went from there to an encampment of the Bolivian Development Corporation. And I arrived at the encampment on a Friday, November 23rd. The people in the encampment said your president has been assassinated. What? I could hardly believe it. I thought assassination that’s way in the past history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or in other countries."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.349327106701587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A very shattering. I could hardly believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because I don't know about you. But one of the reasons I went into the Peace Corps was Kennedy. OK, so you're talking about"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yes, a Kennedy, in fact, a few years previously when I was still a student of university. All right. You worked in Massachusetts. Kennedy come to the university when he was a senator. You seem to be quite an idealistic, dynamic person, and I kind of thought I'm a little bit mistaken now at that time, but I thought maybe Eisenhower was kind of staid and stodgy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I think Kennedy appealed to the young people because we are so tired of the Cold War. And the idea, you know, his ideas of being able to cross boundaries and go out and do all these things was very attractive to young people. So, did you go to any of the masses? I mean, I know where I went down to Sucre and all the every little wide spot in the road had a flag flying at half mast, the day after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall flags flying at half mast. I know, I realize that Kennedy, was very much admired in Bolivia and also I am so of rescued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got married in Bolivia, was it complicated to get married in Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.49925234077954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, yes, a Kennedy, in fact, a few years previously when I was still a student of university. All right. You worked in Massachusetts. Kennedy come to the university when he was a senator. You seem to be quite an idealistic, dynamic person, and I kind of thought I'm a little bit mistaken now at that time, but I thought maybe Eisenhower was kind of staid and stodgy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But I think Kennedy appealed to the young people because we are so tired of the Cold War. And the idea, you know, his ideas of being able to cross boundaries and go out and do all these things was very attractive to young people. So, did you go to any of the masses? I mean, I know where I went down to Sucre and all the every little wide spot in the road had a flag flying at half mast, the day after."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall flags flying at half mast. I know, I realize that Kennedy, was very much admired in Bolivia and also I am so of rescued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got married in Bolivia, was it complicated to get married in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was married twice because in Boliva, in order for marriage to be legal, you have to go through the civil ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Civil ceremony and then the church one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 12.7769470453106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't recall flags flying at half mast. I know, I realize that Kennedy, was very much admired in Bolivia and also I am so of rescued."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you got married in Bolivia, was it complicated to get married in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was married twice because in Boliva, in order for marriage to be legal, you have to go through the civil ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Civil ceremony and then the church one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Religious is up to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I see."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.752163383678443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was married twice because in Boliva, in order for marriage to be legal, you have to go through the civil ceremony."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Civil ceremony and then the church one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Religious is up to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were married. I was religious ceremonies. Both are very unusual because Yolanda worked for the Institute of Marriage. There was a Methodist institution, in fact, and I met her at the Methodist Church in Cochabamba because I went to the Spanish service and did the union service for four Americans. OK, maybe I kind of want to integrate myself in the country. I want to see much of the sermon I could understand. But marriage was not and was not complicated. We had a simple ceremony, and it was unique because very few people get married in Protestant ceremonies and we looked at that time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not too often."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.835737092976048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Religious is up to you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were married. I was religious ceremonies. Both are very unusual because Yolanda worked for the Institute of Marriage. There was a Methodist institution, in fact, and I met her at the Methodist Church in Cochabamba because I went to the Spanish service and did the union service for four Americans. OK, maybe I kind of want to integrate myself in the country. I want to see much of the sermon I could understand. But marriage was not and was not complicated. We had a simple ceremony, and it was unique because very few people get married in Protestant ceremonies and we looked at that time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not too often."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's much more prevalent now because the evangelical churches have become much more common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talking about your experience in Bolivia, what do you think were your major accomplishments at the time in your time there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.817485658862275, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were married. I was religious ceremonies. Both are very unusual because Yolanda worked for the Institute of Marriage. There was a Methodist institution, in fact, and I met her at the Methodist Church in Cochabamba because I went to the Spanish service and did the union service for four Americans. OK, maybe I kind of want to integrate myself in the country. I want to see much of the sermon I could understand. But marriage was not and was not complicated. We had a simple ceremony, and it was unique because very few people get married in Protestant ceremonies and we looked at that time"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not too often."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's much more prevalent now because the evangelical churches have become much more common."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So talking about your experience in Bolivia, what do you think were your major accomplishments at the time in your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think the program that you set that every production records, I think was. I hope it will continue, unfortunately. Eric, Eric is not here, and I would hope he could have given us more information about this continuation of work. Then I also have to get that program set up, debris production, testing and handing over, don't asked me to do a study on what was a farm management study. Oh, really? Yes. And he felt that too many of the farmers were not specializing in dairy production, but were also involved in cash crops and so forth, like corn and so forth, that they would even they might be money ahead if they were to specialize in milk production rather than many other places. So he said you might be a good person to do this study. So. So did you. Yes, I did. I did. No, I had no farm to work. That would be reasonable. Republicans would understand the purpose was generally to say they're better educated. I didn't want to think about some of the maybe campesinos that already had two or three thousand. Yeah, we were operating a very limited acreage in"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which they could do different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.984205293363889, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not that yes. That was one of my criticisms of the government reform, because that was a criticism that made many Bolivians also do this study. I didn't talk to these farmers and I set a model where they were saying farming and their changed farming, German determined, which would bring them in greater greater gross income and greater net income. And they found, however, in some cases that they were better off to continue with their present stable farming in which they were to encroach upon. But they would strip the corn above the ears and tell them it's roasting years and feed this dry, glanced over it. The cows, which I didn't have a lucrative"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean, you know, to a certain extent they were more diversified. You know, now everybody's talking about diversity in terms of production and making it so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And another factor to that kind of discouraging in Cochabamba was that all the receipts from the bill, for instance, went to a central treasury in La Paz. And then, of course, then the word that filtered back to be redistributed to people in other government entities. There were times, for instance, when the people did not have enough cash to pay the milk producers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because it's probably too much of it stayed in La Paz. Yes. OK, let's ok, whenever you when you say when did you actually go home? In 64, in 1964?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you stayed a little bit."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.093561437070987, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And another factor to that kind of discouraging in Cochabamba was that all the receipts from the bill, for instance, went to a central treasury in La Paz. And then, of course, then the word that filtered back to be redistributed to people in other government entities. There were times, for instance, when the people did not have enough cash to pay the milk producers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, because it's probably too much of it stayed in La Paz. Yes. OK, let's ok, whenever you when you say when did you actually go home? In 64, in 1964?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you stayed a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed over until December thirty first.\n\nOk.\n\nWe took an unusual, unusual route going home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Tell me about that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.326179374523319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "January 1965."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you stayed a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed over until December thirty first.\n\nOk.\n\nWe took an unusual, unusual route going home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Tell me about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went overland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did? All the way from Bolivia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 12.584643749470354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I stayed over until December thirty first.\n\nOk.\n\nWe took an unusual, unusual route going home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yeah. Tell me about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went overland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did? All the way from Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way from Bolivia to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.205159721633726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went overland."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh you did? All the way from Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way from Bolivia to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota, Colombia. Bogota. I think you want to say she's a little bit tired of this overland travel site. I don't think at that time there were any decent, decent roads from local downtown down to the Peruvian coast. Yeah, this is where I will take the plane to stay with the Cartagena. And I was interested in Cartagena because I realized there was a site of a Spain ship, a bunch of its treasure to the home country. There was also a very impressive fortress there that we spent a few days inside the hangar, enjoyed ourselves and the beaches and so forth, and explored that, explored the fortress. The guide pointed out to us that it was something that many attacks by both English and French. He said you couldn't understand deeply about this fortress. We made that always a little bit lower because the Spanish, as a rule, were so much shorter than the English and French, they made it more difficult for the pirates to make their way through it all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then from Colombia, where did you put you fly? Directly back to"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.783510801815251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the way from Bolivia to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota, Colombia. Bogota. I think you want to say she's a little bit tired of this overland travel site. I don't think at that time there were any decent, decent roads from local downtown down to the Peruvian coast. Yeah, this is where I will take the plane to stay with the Cartagena. And I was interested in Cartagena because I realized there was a site of a Spain ship, a bunch of its treasure to the home country. There was also a very impressive fortress there that we spent a few days inside the hangar, enjoyed ourselves and the beaches and so forth, and explored that, explored the fortress. The guide pointed out to us that it was something that many attacks by both English and French. He said you couldn't understand deeply about this fortress. We made that always a little bit lower because the Spanish, as a rule, were so much shorter than the English and French, they made it more difficult for the pirates to make their way through it all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then from Colombia, where did you put you fly? Directly back to"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew back to Miami, to Miami. And the first person we visited with my grandmother lived in Sarasota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you ended up back in Massachusetts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.315012002016946, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To Bogota, Colombia. Bogota. I think you want to say she's a little bit tired of this overland travel site. I don't think at that time there were any decent, decent roads from local downtown down to the Peruvian coast. Yeah, this is where I will take the plane to stay with the Cartagena. And I was interested in Cartagena because I realized there was a site of a Spain ship, a bunch of its treasure to the home country. There was also a very impressive fortress there that we spent a few days inside the hangar, enjoyed ourselves and the beaches and so forth, and explored that, explored the fortress. The guide pointed out to us that it was something that many attacks by both English and French. He said you couldn't understand deeply about this fortress. We made that always a little bit lower because the Spanish, as a rule, were so much shorter than the English and French, they made it more difficult for the pirates to make their way through it all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then from Colombia, where did you put you fly? Directly back to"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew back to Miami, to Miami. And the first person we visited with my grandmother lived in Sarasota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you ended up back in Massachusetts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there in Florida. That's, I think, to go overland by now. I'm going to need a car sooner or later. So I bought a car in Florida and we made our way back to Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, yeah. I actually drove my car in 1976, five seventy six seventy five from Tucson, Arizona to San Jose, Costa Rica."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.90556889112994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We flew back to Miami, to Miami. And the first person we visited with my grandmother lived in Sarasota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then you ended up back in Massachusetts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there in Florida. That's, I think, to go overland by now. I'm going to need a car sooner or later. So I bought a car in Florida and we made our way back to Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, yeah. I actually drove my car in 1976, five seventy six seventy five from Tucson, Arizona to San Jose, Costa Rica."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, American Highway goes all the way. Yes. And there's like a ferry down below. I didn't watch it. I just needed to get to Costa Rica."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.5617432123666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and there in Florida. That's, I think, to go overland by now. I'm going to need a car sooner or later. So I bought a car in Florida and we made our way back to Massachusetts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, yeah. I actually drove my car in 1976, five seventy six seventy five from Tucson, Arizona to San Jose, Costa Rica."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, American Highway goes all the way. Yes. And there's like a ferry down below. I didn't watch it. I just needed to get to Costa Rica."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You went as far as Costa Rica?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that's what we were. That was my destination."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.100917546131605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You went as far as Costa Rica?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because that's what we were. That was my destination."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know you this you worked in Costa Rica for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And and you have to do a lot of barriers that go through. I'm not talking about"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Borders, you know, Customs"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.001019495701783, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know you this you worked in Costa Rica for a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And and you have to do a lot of barriers that go through. I'm not talking about"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Borders, you know, Customs"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Administration and bureaucracy and restrictions on movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are not not too much. You know, it was it was a little I had a Costa Rican lady with me and she would talk with the customs people. And I had everything locked down and I’d start unlocking locks. And the idea was she could convince them to let us through without opening everything. And that worked most of the way."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.89002166189087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And and you have to do a lot of barriers that go through. I'm not talking about"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Borders, you know, Customs"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Administration and bureaucracy and restrictions on movement."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We are not not too much. You know, it was it was a little I had a Costa Rican lady with me and she would talk with the customs people. And I had everything locked down and I’d start unlocking locks. And the idea was she could convince them to let us through without opening everything. And that worked most of the way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had an interesting experience in Colombia regarding officials. And we went from Ecuador into Colombia. We passed through the border and nobody bothered to check our papers or anything of that sort, which we thought was kind of strange for the officials. Go ahead. Well, that were later down the road in Colombia at this point where there were some soldiers stationed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.864224273939346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because we had an interesting experience in Colombia regarding officials. And we went from Ecuador into Colombia. We passed through the border and nobody bothered to check our papers or anything of that sort, which we thought was kind of strange for the officials. Go ahead. Well, that were later down the road in Colombia at this point where there were some soldiers stationed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my gosh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they maybe they gave us a hard time because we had not had issues. You're going to have to go back to"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your wanted."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And furthermore, I was a little bit then maybe a bit suspicious because I always carry an antique pistol with me. Oh, my goodness. Which were which I was going to give to my dad because he was a gun collector and they were telling us that you people are going to have to go back to the border and have your passport stamped into. Only one now is protesting. Yolanda had the key, she told me, so we've been of girls. She was depressed, not proportionate and equal to the point that I never wanted to see the pictures from there. No, no, no. You can you can go to the next station. Pasto, that's official. There is going to be mass break in the photos. So they let us go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you have to pay them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.178054659184378, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. And furthermore, I was a little bit then maybe a bit suspicious because I always carry an antique pistol with me. Oh, my goodness. Which were which I was going to give to my dad because he was a gun collector and they were telling us that you people are going to have to go back to the border and have your passport stamped into. Only one now is protesting. Yolanda had the key, she told me, so we've been of girls. She was depressed, not proportionate and equal to the point that I never wanted to see the pictures from there. No, no, no. You can you can go to the next station. Pasto, that's official. There is going to be mass break in the photos. So they let us go ahead."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How much did you have to pay them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said I never pay these guys off duty to be here. Well, anyway, when we got the pastor and he went to immigration and the official was very frank, very pleasant, he said we don't need that. Our passport, that's all there is to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just trying to get money out of here."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.531171843538198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said I never pay these guys off duty to be here. Well, anyway, when we got the pastor and he went to immigration and the official was very frank, very pleasant, he said we don't need that. Our passport, that's all there is to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just trying to get money out of here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. That's for sure.\n\nYeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So thinking back about the Peace Corps experience, would you say it for life was a life changing experience for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.034635381709109, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I said I never pay these guys off duty to be here. Well, anyway, when we got the pastor and he went to immigration and the official was very frank, very pleasant, he said we don't need that. Our passport, that's all there is to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were just trying to get money out of here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. That's for sure.\n\nYeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So thinking back about the Peace Corps experience, would you say it for life was a life changing experience for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. Yeah, it opened I opened up a mean views about how to maybe deal with people in other countries and appreciate their having an intimate contact with them. I was able to understand their situations where they were coming from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what have you been doing since you got out of his car? What did you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 15.59403931301012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. That's for sure.\n\nYeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. So thinking back about the Peace Corps experience, would you say it for life was a life changing experience for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. Yeah, it opened I opened up a mean views about how to maybe deal with people in other countries and appreciate their having an intimate contact with them. I was able to understand their situations where they were coming from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what have you been doing since you got out of his car? What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was at work for Farmers Home Administration for 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.771154792233466, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it sure was. Yeah, it opened I opened up a mean views about how to maybe deal with people in other countries and appreciate their having an intimate contact with them. I was able to understand their situations where they were coming from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what have you been doing since you got out of his car? What did you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was at work for Farmers Home Administration for 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a field of rural credit, OK. We find that on their farms to find out how to do that. OK, I think we're located in the United States. We were. And I was working with farmers houses and also some of the community facilities, credit for rural areas and. And it was in that position, a number of states I started in western New York state and western Pennsylvania, then approval of Florida. I did not care for Florida. Missed the hills. And then they went there. They were transferred back up north and did not have a position open Pennsylvania or New York at that time, but there was one in Connecticut and they said, well, they will pick Connecticut. So that's where. Sure, the majority might. The rest of my time in the Bahamas home in Connecticut, that's where I retired. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you're living right now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.856838658037184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was at work for Farmers Home Administration for 30 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you do with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a field of rural credit, OK. We find that on their farms to find out how to do that. OK, I think we're located in the United States. We were. And I was working with farmers houses and also some of the community facilities, credit for rural areas and. And it was in that position, a number of states I started in western New York state and western Pennsylvania, then approval of Florida. I did not care for Florida. Missed the hills. And then they went there. They were transferred back up north and did not have a position open Pennsylvania or New York at that time, but there was one in Connecticut and they said, well, they will pick Connecticut. So that's where. Sure, the majority might. The rest of my time in the Bahamas home in Connecticut, that's where I retired. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you're living right now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only living in western New York State. OK, I think we're going about, oh, about 70 miles from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as your son grow and"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.952042953374649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is a field of rural credit, OK. We find that on their farms to find out how to do that. OK, I think we're located in the United States. We were. And I was working with farmers houses and also some of the community facilities, credit for rural areas and. And it was in that position, a number of states I started in western New York state and western Pennsylvania, then approval of Florida. I did not care for Florida. Missed the hills. And then they went there. They were transferred back up north and did not have a position open Pennsylvania or New York at that time, but there was one in Connecticut and they said, well, they will pick Connecticut. So that's where. Sure, the majority might. The rest of my time in the Bahamas home in Connecticut, that's where I retired. OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where you're living right now?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only living in western New York State. OK, I think we're going about, oh, about 70 miles from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as your son grow and"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My son, we find it very interesting. He is now back in Bolivia. Oh, yeah. He has a hankering to start a business in Bolivia. I think it's been very risky and so forth, and in some ways I've been a venture capitalist and he's trying to start a factory in the village, now it’s a city called Cobija."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? Is that a city now that"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.05782550374961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only living in western New York State. OK, I think we're going about, oh, about 70 miles from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And as your son grow and"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My son, we find it very interesting. He is now back in Bolivia. Oh, yeah. He has a hankering to start a business in Bolivia. I think it's been very risky and so forth, and in some ways I've been a venture capitalist and he's trying to start a factory in the village, now it’s a city called Cobija."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? Is that a city now that"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know where Cobija is at?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's at, Cobija was just a kind of place. It wasn’t"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.1753616708329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My son, we find it very interesting. He is now back in Bolivia. Oh, yeah. He has a hankering to start a business in Bolivia. I think it's been very risky and so forth, and in some ways I've been a venture capitalist and he's trying to start a factory in the village, now it’s a city called Cobija."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really? Is that a city now that"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know where Cobija is at?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's at, Cobija was just a kind of place. It wasn’t"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well he said that is grown a great deal. It's on the it's on the border with Brazil. I the river divides it, I guess, to facilitate communications between the two countries. Brazil build a modern bridge and a lot of trade, I think essentially goes to work to build rather than to put it here. The standpoint of geographic, geography and so forth, it's more logical in its orientation would be toward Brazil. But he said it's a growing community. You kind of compare situation, situation between Mexico and the United States, where there's too many businesses like this in Mexico, where every we the cost of operation is less. But the market is in safe. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And global influences. OK, one thing about. As far as evaluating the Peace Corps service, there are three things that they they had goals that they had. One was to provide technical assistance. One was to promote a better understanding of the U.S. And one was to promote a better understanding of other people like Americans. So did you feel that you were generally able to meet those goals with your service?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.28166721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes, she does. She has been a long time jetting back and forth because after all, the air travel is getting much more expensive as know where. She kind of would like to live in Bolivia. I do kind of a conflict over that, whether or not it's the people at this point, I feel that we can we could probably live in. Actually, quite comfortably. Yeah. And. Yes, I think he has a part would have been he in the USA and he was in Kuwait for quite a bit of time and he felt he was somewhat more of an important person to share my opinion. And we were say one time he managed the campaign of the governor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In that in Bolivia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, ma'am. Because he remains a politician says, yeah, yeah. They get him into trouble because you have to make, you know, private. There was a bloody massacre in Cobija."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the government, the government and others, he was great to campesinos were all upset and I guess they wanted to march on Cobija. And he he was trying to stem the. And I guess he posted what troops were available to keep them from entering the city, but nevertheless campesinos got violent over some matters and. They were all armed. And bloodshed broke out, several people were massacred. And the government. Even when I was with the president. That was, of course, very partial to Singer. He immediately. The whole your whole detachment of troops and what they're going to do, and I understand there was immediately going to propose in the present as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any discussions you need to kind of be careful."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.6462969000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, ma'am. Because he remains a politician says, yeah, yeah. They get him into trouble because you have to make, you know, private. There was a bloody massacre in Cobija."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the government, the government and others, he was great to campesinos were all upset and I guess they wanted to march on Cobija. And he he was trying to stem the. And I guess he posted what troops were available to keep them from entering the city, but nevertheless campesinos got violent over some matters and. They were all armed. And bloodshed broke out, several people were massacred. And the government. Even when I was with the president. That was, of course, very partial to Singer. He immediately. The whole your whole detachment of troops and what they're going to do, and I understand there was immediately going to propose in the present as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any discussions you need to kind of be careful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And stay in prison anyway. Why did you Bolivians who are associated with this massacre here, Fernando, just trying to avoid of bloodshed. But the government just yet, corporate detachment beforehand, but they will not send the troops. Well, anyway, shortly after that, my son was on his blacklist, he being a collaborator with Fernandez and being involved in massacres and so forth. The thing is, it was quite a few other people from Korea who had to leave the country or escape into Brazil. Thing is, however, that our son in law was in Cochabamba at the time of the massacre, preparing to come to the U.S., but that did not make any difference with the governmental authority. They still said he was he put his name on the blacklist, I suppose, because he met he managed Fernandez's campaign. Sure. He was guilt by association."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he able to get out eventually?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0514410000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and the government, the government and others, he was great to campesinos were all upset and I guess they wanted to march on Cobija. And he he was trying to stem the. And I guess he posted what troops were available to keep them from entering the city, but nevertheless campesinos got violent over some matters and. They were all armed. And bloodshed broke out, several people were massacred. And the government. Even when I was with the president. That was, of course, very partial to Singer. He immediately. The whole your whole detachment of troops and what they're going to do, and I understand there was immediately going to propose in the present as far as I know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So any discussions you need to kind of be careful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And stay in prison anyway. Why did you Bolivians who are associated with this massacre here, Fernando, just trying to avoid of bloodshed. But the government just yet, corporate detachment beforehand, but they will not send the troops. Well, anyway, shortly after that, my son was on his blacklist, he being a collaborator with Fernandez and being involved in massacres and so forth. The thing is, it was quite a few other people from Korea who had to leave the country or escape into Brazil. Thing is, however, that our son in law was in Cochabamba at the time of the massacre, preparing to come to the U.S., but that did not make any difference with the governmental authority. They still said he was he put his name on the blacklist, I suppose, because he met he managed Fernandez's campaign. Sure. He was guilt by association."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he able to get out eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess he was using a lot of manipulation. And he's an expert in manipulating people and lawyers. And so we did get him out to the USA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you still might end up going back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.3904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And stay in prison anyway. Why did you Bolivians who are associated with this massacre here, Fernando, just trying to avoid of bloodshed. But the government just yet, corporate detachment beforehand, but they will not send the troops. Well, anyway, shortly after that, my son was on his blacklist, he being a collaborator with Fernandez and being involved in massacres and so forth. The thing is, it was quite a few other people from Korea who had to leave the country or escape into Brazil. Thing is, however, that our son in law was in Cochabamba at the time of the massacre, preparing to come to the U.S., but that did not make any difference with the governmental authority. They still said he was he put his name on the blacklist, I suppose, because he met he managed Fernandez's campaign. Sure. He was guilt by association."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he able to get out eventually?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess he was using a lot of manipulation. And he's an expert in manipulating people and lawyers. And so we did get him out to the USA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you still might end up going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife would like to. I think she would like to live there, but she's not too keen about either Cochabamba or La Paz. She doesn't like La Paz because of the altitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is she thinking and where is she thinking she would like to live?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.6561000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess he was using a lot of manipulation. And he's an expert in manipulating people and lawyers. And so we did get him out to the USA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, so you still might end up going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife would like to. I think she would like to live there, but she's not too keen about either Cochabamba or La Paz. She doesn't like La Paz because of the altitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is she thinking and where is she thinking she would like to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's heard about a village called Samaipata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is that? In the Yungas?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife would like to. I think she would like to live there, but she's not too keen about either Cochabamba or La Paz. She doesn't like La Paz because of the altitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What is she thinking and where is she thinking she would like to live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's heard about a village called Samaipata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is that? In the Yungas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s on the road between Santa Cruz and Cochabamba. It's about, I think, about 70 miles, about 75 miles west of Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be a new development."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's heard about a village called Samaipata."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where is that? In the Yungas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s on the road between Santa Cruz and Cochabamba. It's about, I think, about 70 miles, about 75 miles west of Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be a new development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a few Americans and other foreigners have settled there. And it's well, it's hard to remember Europeans are there. There's also, I guess, Americans have settled there. That's become quite a pleasant village. And that one area that they're also developing in the vineyards right ow. And the climate is almost ideal just to"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of be like California. It's just grapes and things like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s on the road between Santa Cruz and Cochabamba. It's about, I think, about 70 miles, about 75 miles west of Santa Cruz."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be a new development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a few Americans and other foreigners have settled there. And it's well, it's hard to remember Europeans are there. There's also, I guess, Americans have settled there. That's become quite a pleasant village. And that one area that they're also developing in the vineyards right ow. And the climate is almost ideal just to"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of be like California. It's just grapes and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's actually not so far, but it's a somewhat higher altitude from Santa Cruz. So, yeah, there's not the extremes of heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, that's great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite a few Americans and other foreigners have settled there. And it's well, it's hard to remember Europeans are there. There's also, I guess, Americans have settled there. That's become quite a pleasant village. And that one area that they're also developing in the vineyards right ow. And the climate is almost ideal just to"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Kind of be like California. It's just grapes and things like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's actually not so far, but it's a somewhat higher altitude from Santa Cruz. So, yeah, there's not the extremes of heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she kind of would like to go there and talk about it too much lately because we're kind of in conflict. We do have her granddaughters here and two of my granddaughters live in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the granddaughters are who? That's your sons?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's actually not so far, but it's a somewhat higher altitude from Santa Cruz. So, yeah, there's not the extremes of heat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she kind of would like to go there and talk about it too much lately because we're kind of in conflict. We do have her granddaughters here and two of my granddaughters live in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the granddaughters are who? That's your sons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. One of the granddaughter is now living with us and we've got two grandsons also. But there in Colorado, they're taking their fortune there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, I think, you know, do you have anything else you would like to comment on, Peter?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she kind of would like to go there and talk about it too much lately because we're kind of in conflict. We do have her granddaughters here and two of my granddaughters live in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is the granddaughters are who? That's your sons?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. One of the granddaughter is now living with us and we've got two grandsons also. But there in Colorado, they're taking their fortune there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, I think, you know, do you have anything else you would like to comment on, Peter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm very grateful for this interview, and I think you you've done a very effective job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don't know about that, but I think it's important for us to try to get as many stories about people's experiences in the Peace Corps because we're not getting any younger. Yeah, so we're not getting any younger."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. One of the granddaughter is now living with us and we've got two grandsons also. But there in Colorado, they're taking their fortune there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Well, I think, you know, do you have anything else you would like to comment on, Peter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm very grateful for this interview, and I think you you've done a very effective job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don't know about that, but I think it's important for us to try to get as many stories about people's experiences in the Peace Corps because we're not getting any younger. Yeah, so we're not getting any younger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I look at my age, I said I'm way beyond the average age of Americans. So we're going to be like a living on borrowed time. Fortunately, I'm in good health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm very grateful for this interview, and I think you you've done a very effective job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I don't know about that, but I think it's important for us to try to get as many stories about people's experiences in the Peace Corps because we're not getting any younger. Yeah, so we're not getting any younger."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I look at my age, I said I'm way beyond the average age of Americans. So we're going to be like a living on borrowed time. Fortunately, I'm in good health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't take any medicines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there you go."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00266:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, I look at my age, I said I'm way beyond the average age of Americans. So we're going to be like a living on borrowed time. Fortunately, I'm in good health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't take any medicines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, there you go."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know about you whether you’re in good health, you look good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good. So. All right. Well, I think we'll just call this put a stop to this right now then. And thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00490:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.450886269640012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You haven’t ever seen the Apollo gloves? I want you to take your hand, this hand here, that’s right. Now, the gloves are designed like this, okay? Designed like this. All right, now open up your hand. Don’t move your arm. Open up your hand. Move it up. Open up your hand. Open up your hand. You feel that pressure?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, you put your hand like this. [Demonstrates.] All right. Now open up your hand. You feel the pressure in here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened is that the gloves were the only thing that was proprietary. Nobody screwed with the gloves except the guy who was responsible for them. Those gloves were very hard to work with. When I first got in the gloves, I thought they were kidding me. They said, “Try this one.”\\n\\n I thought, “My goodness gracious, I might be able to do this three times and quit.” That was a problem. But they had to have the gloves on because they were part of the contamination procedures.\\n\\n Okay. Go ahead and ask the next question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that’s it for the LRL, unless you have some questions, Rebecca.\n\nNo.\n\nYou had mentioned earlier that you started working on the medical facility for the Space Station. How did you move from the LRL, something that’s very focused on geology, to something focused on human anatomy and those fields?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00490:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.63883600000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I never did anything. The only thing I did was provide the—if they said, “Hey, Mike, we need this,” then we made sure they got that. A lot of that stuff was handled by outside doctors, by the way, at least from my viewpoint, because the medical center at Houston provided a lot of doctors. If they thought there was a problem, they brought in the expertise of those doctors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to work with any of the M.D.’s that came in as astronauts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Dave Wolfe and Bernard A. Harris, Jr. You know who Bernard Harris is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He went up on the Shuttle. He’s very smart and very nice. He’s a real gentleman. I worked with him. I worked with some of the astronauts because of the scientific experiments. If there was an experiment going on the flight and I happened to be in charge of it, I’d have to go in and set them up and say, “This is what we want. Are there any questions?”\\n\\n They’d look it over and say, “No, we’re in good shape. Thanks, Mike.”\\n\\n So that was basically it. But the original astronauts, I never had to work with the original astronauts. I never had anything to do with the training portion. The geologists had to do all the geological training and since I was part of geology, I’d get a lot of stories from them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the experiments that you worked on for the Space Shuttle Program?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.31950570301068, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I did go to the University of Vermont, but I was an English major and I had never had anything to do with cows except once I won a cow milking contest, which had to do with, I think that you had to fill a test tube full of milk and then you won the contest. So it wasn't like milking a cow. I learned it all. I learned all of that. And then I also, I also had to teach them how to artificially inseminate cows and castrate bulls, because the whole idea was we were trying to get rid of the local herds, the local farm, the local cows, because the local cows were not. They did not produce a lot of either milk or good beef. So we were introducing European herds by artificial insemination. And then we would castrate the local bulls, or I would teach them how to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was all through semen, not through importing cow, uh, bulls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Through semen that was imported."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So imported."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. There may have been some, but not, not on our scheme, not on our schemes. It was importing semen from Europe, from England primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So milking a cow seems easier than castrating a bull."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 23.688339670011867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Through semen that was imported."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So imported."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. There may have been some, but not, not on our scheme, not on our schemes. It was importing semen from Europe, from England primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So milking a cow seems easier than castrating a bull."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.76482185556874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. There may have been some, but not, not on our scheme, not on our schemes. It was importing semen from Europe, from England primarily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So milking a cow seems easier than castrating a bull."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, well, I was taught at a farmers training center in Nakuru. I lived in a place called Naivasha, which is up on the Kinangop there, where all the farms were very, very high. But we all went to a farmers training center where they taught us how to do this, how to artificially inseminate cows and castrate bulls. So it wasn't, it wasn't a skill that I came with. I was one of those BA generalists. I basically, you know, had majored in English and could read Shakespeare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is a worthwhile thing in any case. You said you were the only woman in, in this part of the country at least. There were three all over."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.072024283965266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, well, I was taught at a farmers training center in Nakuru. I lived in a place called Naivasha, which is up on the Kinangop there, where all the farms were very, very high. But we all went to a farmers training center where they taught us how to do this, how to artificially inseminate cows and castrate bulls. So it wasn't, it wasn't a skill that I came with. I was one of those BA generalists. I basically, you know, had majored in English and could read Shakespeare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is a worthwhile thing in any case. You said you were the only woman in, in this part of the country at least. There were three all over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you interact with the local women a lot or were you mostly working with the men?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.635582537739182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, well, I was taught at a farmers training center in Nakuru. I lived in a place called Naivasha, which is up on the Kinangop there, where all the farms were very, very high. But we all went to a farmers training center where they taught us how to do this, how to artificially inseminate cows and castrate bulls. So it wasn't, it wasn't a skill that I came with. I was one of those BA generalists. I basically, you know, had majored in English and could read Shakespeare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which is a worthwhile thing in any case. You said you were the only woman in, in this part of the country at least. There were three all over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you interact with the local women a lot or were you mostly working with the men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or did women take care of the cows, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.27278336476606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you have to iron them still. And I still I don't like to iron any more than I did then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So I'd like to go back to the milk. What did Kikuyu children drink? They just didn't drink milk, or they drank whole milk before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drank whole milk before the creamery. But the creamer had been there about ten years by the time we were there. It was run by a Dutch family. You know, it was, it was. They were hired by the Kenyan government. But then they just drank milk. There weren't things like soft drinks and things like that then, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they drank milk. It just never occurred to them once the cream was taken off, that there was still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just no good. So they kept some of the milk for the kids to drink. But they wanted to make money because they needed the money to buy seeds and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure, sure."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 21.414203738628956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They drank whole milk before the creamery. But the creamer had been there about ten years by the time we were there. It was run by a Dutch family. You know, it was, it was. They were hired by the Kenyan government. But then they just drank milk. There weren't things like soft drinks and things like that then, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they drank milk. It just never occurred to them once the cream was taken off, that there was still?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just no good. So they kept some of the milk for the kids to drink. But they wanted to make money because they needed the money to buy seeds and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two, for the whole two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.349115265143283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was just no good. So they kept some of the milk for the kids to drink. But they wanted to make money because they needed the money to buy seeds and that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, sure. Sure, sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two, for the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't do that for the whole two years because we had been there, um. We had been there about, uh, one year. One year when we went to climb Kilimanjaro and we went for a visit with a whole bunch of guys. I was the only woman, of course, and we climbed Kilimanjaro. Then we went to Lamu, which is an island off of Kenya, and then we came back. And when we got back, our director told us that we had to move immediately because we had been accused of being CIA agents. Now, I understand that, you know that evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were not the only one."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.054572516825868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did that for two, for the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't do that for the whole two years because we had been there, um. We had been there about, uh, one year. One year when we went to climb Kilimanjaro and we went for a visit with a whole bunch of guys. I was the only woman, of course, and we climbed Kilimanjaro. Then we went to Lamu, which is an island off of Kenya, and then we came back. And when we got back, our director told us that we had to move immediately because we had been accused of being CIA agents. Now, I understand that, you know that evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were not the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fairy common. Yes, that evidently was I wouldn't say common, but we were not the only ones, not, not in our group, but around the world. There were people. So we, uh, so we moved from this small town called Njabini to a town up north, still in the same area, still up in the white highlands, to a place at the time was called Thomsons Falls. Now it has a Kikuyu name, Nyahururu, which is Nya- hu-ru-ru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll do that later."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.727302796473186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't do that for the whole two years because we had been there, um. We had been there about, uh, one year. One year when we went to climb Kilimanjaro and we went for a visit with a whole bunch of guys. I was the only woman, of course, and we climbed Kilimanjaro. Then we went to Lamu, which is an island off of Kenya, and then we came back. And when we got back, our director told us that we had to move immediately because we had been accused of being CIA agents. Now, I understand that, you know that evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were not the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fairy common. Yes, that evidently was I wouldn't say common, but we were not the only ones, not, not in our group, but around the world. There were people. So we, uh, so we moved from this small town called Njabini to a town up north, still in the same area, still up in the white highlands, to a place at the time was called Thomsons Falls. Now it has a Kikuyu name, Nyahururu, which is Nya- hu-ru-ru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll do that later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. Yes. So that's, uh, yeah. So we were in two different places, and then my first child was born there. Yeah, Sean was born in Kenya, in Nairobi. So we then lived in Nairobi for about three months before we left, before we finished our tour of duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, well, that seems like another whole story. What, now I'd like to explore that a little bit as well. But when you were in Thomsons Falls, did you do the same kind of work as you did before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.585891996081315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was fairy common. Yes, that evidently was I wouldn't say common, but we were not the only ones, not, not in our group, but around the world. There were people. So we, uh, so we moved from this small town called Njabini to a town up north, still in the same area, still up in the white highlands, to a place at the time was called Thomsons Falls. Now it has a Kikuyu name, Nyahururu, which is Nya- hu-ru-ru."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll do that later."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. Yes. So that's, uh, yeah. So we were in two different places, and then my first child was born there. Yeah, Sean was born in Kenya, in Nairobi. So we then lived in Nairobi for about three months before we left, before we finished our tour of duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, well, that seems like another whole story. What, now I'd like to explore that a little bit as well. But when you were in Thomsons Falls, did you do the same kind of work as you did before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, basically did the same. Yes. Basically did the same kind of work. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also with a Kikuyu population?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.317657773423683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. Yes. So that's, uh, yeah. So we were in two different places, and then my first child was born there. Yeah, Sean was born in Kenya, in Nairobi. So we then lived in Nairobi for about three months before we left, before we finished our tour of duty."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And, well, that seems like another whole story. What, now I'd like to explore that a little bit as well. But when you were in Thomsons Falls, did you do the same kind of work as you did before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, basically did the same. Yes. Basically did the same kind of work. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also with a Kikuyu population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kikuyu, yes. Kikuyu is the largest tribe. Kenyatta is a Kikuyu, was a Kikuyu. And, um, Thomsons Falls is also a Kikuyu area. That whole area there below the Aberdare Mountains is all a Kikuyu area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of Kikuyu customs or unique characteristics that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.24184197047076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, basically did the same. Yes. Basically did the same kind of work. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Also with a Kikuyu population?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kikuyu, yes. Kikuyu is the largest tribe. Kenyatta is a Kikuyu, was a Kikuyu. And, um, Thomsons Falls is also a Kikuyu area. That whole area there below the Aberdare Mountains is all a Kikuyu area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of Kikuyu customs or unique characteristics that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, how strong the women were, carrying all of that wood on their backs. That is for sure. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they open to Peace Corps volunteers? Were they friendly or suspicious of you? Men or women."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.157602189411953, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kikuyu, yes. Kikuyu is the largest tribe. Kenyatta is a Kikuyu, was a Kikuyu. And, um, Thomsons Falls is also a Kikuyu area. That whole area there below the Aberdare Mountains is all a Kikuyu area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any memories of Kikuyu customs or unique characteristics that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, how strong the women were, carrying all of that wood on their backs. That is for sure. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they open to Peace Corps volunteers? Were they friendly or suspicious of you? Men or women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suspicious of us? Well, obviously, we were accused of being CIA agents, but that I'm not sure we had to do with being suspicious. That was a political kind of thing because there was a great presence of Russians and Chinese in East Africa at that time. You know, they were trying to sow the seeds of communism in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who do you think accused you? Do you think it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.06400243267995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, how strong the women were, carrying all of that wood on their backs. That is for sure. Uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were they open to Peace Corps volunteers? Were they friendly or suspicious of you? Men or women."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Suspicious of us? Well, obviously, we were accused of being CIA agents, but that I'm not sure we had to do with being suspicious. That was a political kind of thing because there was a great presence of Russians and Chinese in East Africa at that time. You know, they were trying to sow the seeds of communism in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So who do you think accused you? Do you think it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know, I think I'm quite sure, it was, it was a settlement officer. You know, there were these settlement schemes had settlement officers and some of them were, most of them were Kenyan and some of them were Peace Corps or European. European. And I think it was one particular guy who wasn't too happy to have us there and he was a little bit worried about his job and had studied in Russia and, um, you know, just didn't want to have any U.S. people around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I find this very interesting that you had a child in, in Kenya. When we were in the Peace Corps, we were led to believe that if you got pregnant, you were out of country. So I guess that was not the case in Kenya at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 19.84088125196152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't the case in Kenya. It was certainly not, uh, encouraged. It was not encouraged at all. But we had a director who was very. We were going, it was almost at the end of our, our stay there, as our service there. And Bob Poole was a terrific guy. He was the director of the Peace Corps there. And he said, yes, we could have a child there. And there was actually another couple who had a child before we did in the teaching group, not in our, not in our group, but in the teaching group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was, you know, I was upcountry. I was way upcountry in a house that had no electricity, no running water. And I went to, I found out that I was pregnant in the town of Thomsons Falls. It was the second town. And I thought I was pregnant. I went to the doctor there. There was a doctor who was actually a German doctor. He probably was an escape, you know, a Nazi, escaped Nazi. But, you know, at the time, how did I know? And it was a teeny little office that was maybe as big as from the window there to the fireplace. And the door was, the door to the street, which was a dirt street, was just a piece of cloth, heavy piece of cloth.\n\nAnd, you know, that's where I went to the doctor until I think I had had, yes, I had a couple of appointments with a doctor in Nairobi who was actually a flying doctor and Doctors Without Borders. And he was American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what is a flying doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the same as doctors. It was at that time that doctors would go when there was an emergency in a small town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And fly from Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.712090279957245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was, you know, I was upcountry. I was way upcountry in a house that had no electricity, no running water. And I went to, I found out that I was pregnant in the town of Thomsons Falls. It was the second town. And I thought I was pregnant. I went to the doctor there. There was a doctor who was actually a German doctor. He probably was an escape, you know, a Nazi, escaped Nazi. But, you know, at the time, how did I know? And it was a teeny little office that was maybe as big as from the window there to the fireplace. And the door was, the door to the street, which was a dirt street, was just a piece of cloth, heavy piece of cloth.\n\nAnd, you know, that's where I went to the doctor until I think I had had, yes, I had a couple of appointments with a doctor in Nairobi who was actually a flying doctor and Doctors Without Borders. And he was American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what is a flying doctor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was the same as doctors. It was at that time that doctors would go when there was an emergency in a small town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And fly from Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fly from Nairobi. Yes. He was, I'm not sure if it was he was a missionary or not. He had his own practice and then he was also a flying doctor. So he was my, he was my doctor and he was the doctor who delivered. I came into Nairobi. We moved from upcountry where we had all been riding motorcycles, and that was it on dirt roads. And we moved into Nairobi about a month before Sean was due, and he came about two weeks early, so as a very small baby, so lucky that we moved into town because it would have been not a good thing to be way upcountry on those dirt roads. There was no hospital or clinic or anything. The closest was in Nairobi, which was several hours away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So everything worked out?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.698340576073036, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And everything, yeah, everything. Everything worked out. I can't say it was the easiest time of my life, but everything worked out. I can remember one interesting something that you might be interested in is that I'm an only child, so I don't know anything about boys. I only know about girls. But my husband was insistent that, that if it's a boy, he'd be circumcised. And the British do not circumcise their kids. So. The doctor, yeah. Because then we had not only our regular doctor, but we had a specialist because it was a bit of a difficult birth and, uh, but he was actually from South Africa and he was an ob gyn, but so neither one of them were very enthusiastic about circumcising this baby.\n\nSo it didn't happen like it did here where you just go [clicks] right in the hospital. I had to wait for several weeks because the baby was very small and they weren't very excited. So finally, finally one of the doctors came to the house and circumcised him. But I remember that very clearly because the same thing happened. My third child was born in London, in London, and the same thing happened with Brett, the same thing because, you know, there we were in a British hospital. Nobody wanted to circumcise the baby, but it happened in the hospital at that time. Yeah. And I lived in a house, so I lived in a house. We had moved into Nairobi and we lived in a house that was actually owned by a, a couple who he, he was Kenyan as European, but he had been born there and his wife was a nurse."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was very nice for me as a, as a new mother, knowing absolutely nothing about babies or anything. She was terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your parents think about all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine my mother would have been over there immediately."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.442600640081153, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was very nice for me as a, as a new mother, knowing absolutely nothing about babies or anything. She was terrific."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did your parents think about all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine my mother would have been over there immediately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. They just, well, they thought it was good, good, good. They sent me a telegram and, uh, I have still have the telegram. And they didn't come over. They didn't. I didn't invite them over, but they just didn't even think about it. They were in circumstances where they couldn't come over at that time because they had bought a motor inn in their retirement years, which was a crazy thing to do, but it really tied them down and, um. They were very happy to meet the baby when he was came back to the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But being upcountry and being pregnant, they were calm about all of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.158445155645722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine my mother would have been over there immediately."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. They just, well, they thought it was good, good, good. They sent me a telegram and, uh, I have still have the telegram. And they didn't come over. They didn't. I didn't invite them over, but they just didn't even think about it. They were in circumstances where they couldn't come over at that time because they had bought a motor inn in their retirement years, which was a crazy thing to do, but it really tied them down and, um. They were very happy to meet the baby when he was came back to the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But being upcountry and being pregnant, they were calm about all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my parents are from Boston, they're from New England, and they just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stiff upper lip."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.953827950717468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. They just, well, they thought it was good, good, good. They sent me a telegram and, uh, I have still have the telegram. And they didn't come over. They didn't. I didn't invite them over, but they just didn't even think about it. They were in circumstances where they couldn't come over at that time because they had bought a motor inn in their retirement years, which was a crazy thing to do, but it really tied them down and, um. They were very happy to meet the baby when he was came back to the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But being upcountry and being pregnant, they were calm about all of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my parents are from Boston, they're from New England, and they just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stiff upper lip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stiff upper lip. Yes, yes. So I had no Lamaze classes, no group of people. I had nobody. I had no idea. You know, I was just so young and so innocent and didn't have all of these advertisements around about how you had to have special plugs so your kid wouldn't get his finger caught in the, in the socket there. I mean, nothing. It was just me. There was one other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have electricity, so there was no. Oh, I guess in Nairobi."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 19.948697723019407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my parents are from Boston, they're from New England, and they just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Stiff upper lip."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stiff upper lip. Yes, yes. So I had no Lamaze classes, no group of people. I had nobody. I had no idea. You know, I was just so young and so innocent and didn't have all of these advertisements around about how you had to have special plugs so your kid wouldn't get his finger caught in the, in the socket there. I mean, nothing. It was just me. There was one other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have electricity, so there was no. Oh, I guess in Nairobi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nairobi we did. Yeah, we had electricity in Nairobi. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me ask you about, we'll circle back to some other things. Let me ask you about Nairobi. And I asked that because my husband and I came from Somalia to Nairobi and we're just overwhelmed by the traffic and the sophistication of Nairobi after having been in Somalia for, I guess, at that point a year. What was your impression of Nairobi coming from up, coming upcountry to Nairobi?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.72077524779934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stiff upper lip. Yes, yes. So I had no Lamaze classes, no group of people. I had nobody. I had no idea. You know, I was just so young and so innocent and didn't have all of these advertisements around about how you had to have special plugs so your kid wouldn't get his finger caught in the, in the socket there. I mean, nothing. It was just me. There was one other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have electricity, so there was no. Oh, I guess in Nairobi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nairobi we did. Yeah, we had electricity in Nairobi. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me ask you about, we'll circle back to some other things. Let me ask you about Nairobi. And I asked that because my husband and I came from Somalia to Nairobi and we're just overwhelmed by the traffic and the sophistication of Nairobi after having been in Somalia for, I guess, at that point a year. What was your impression of Nairobi coming from up, coming upcountry to Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, you know, upcountry was dirt roads and one duka, one small shop. So Nairobi was like heaven. We had once, one, uh, pair and they weren't a pair. Anyway, they just happened to live together. Two volunteers who lived in Nairobi. And I tell you, they had more guests, as you can imagine, everybody sleeping on their floor. Everybody loved Nairobi. The new Stanley Hotel, the Thorn Tree, where you could get a real hamburger. The Norfolk Hotel where they walked through with a little blackboard on a stick that had your name, ringing a bell, saying, you know, Mr. Dakin, Mr. Dakin, phone for you. Maybe there was a phone. I can't remember. We certainly didn't have phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very impressive."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 19.6897502753326, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Nairobi we did. Yeah, we had electricity in Nairobi. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let me ask you about, we'll circle back to some other things. Let me ask you about Nairobi. And I asked that because my husband and I came from Somalia to Nairobi and we're just overwhelmed by the traffic and the sophistication of Nairobi after having been in Somalia for, I guess, at that point a year. What was your impression of Nairobi coming from up, coming upcountry to Nairobi?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, you know, upcountry was dirt roads and one duka, one small shop. So Nairobi was like heaven. We had once, one, uh, pair and they weren't a pair. Anyway, they just happened to live together. Two volunteers who lived in Nairobi. And I tell you, they had more guests, as you can imagine, everybody sleeping on their floor. Everybody loved Nairobi. The new Stanley Hotel, the Thorn Tree, where you could get a real hamburger. The Norfolk Hotel where they walked through with a little blackboard on a stick that had your name, ringing a bell, saying, you know, Mr. Dakin, Mr. Dakin, phone for you. Maybe there was a phone. I can't remember. We certainly didn't have phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it very British at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.988611417036221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. Well, you know, upcountry was dirt roads and one duka, one small shop. So Nairobi was like heaven. We had once, one, uh, pair and they weren't a pair. Anyway, they just happened to live together. Two volunteers who lived in Nairobi. And I tell you, they had more guests, as you can imagine, everybody sleeping on their floor. Everybody loved Nairobi. The new Stanley Hotel, the Thorn Tree, where you could get a real hamburger. The Norfolk Hotel where they walked through with a little blackboard on a stick that had your name, ringing a bell, saying, you know, Mr. Dakin, Mr. Dakin, phone for you. Maybe there was a phone. I can't remember. We certainly didn't have phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was very impressive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it very British at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, totally. Totally British. Yeah. And Indian. Lots of Indians. Yeah, lots of Indians. I had, one of my daughters-in-law is an Indian. Daughter-in-laws, yeah, whichever it is. Yeah. So but I remember, I'm thinking about this now, that on Sundays you would go, if you were driving around Nairobi, all the parks were filled with Indian families having picnics. They looked so, you know, they all looked so beautiful. Oh, it was, uh, when we moved there, we were very struck. We came from, we lived in Manhattan, we lived in New York, and then we trained in Wisconsin, of all the crazy places to train, in the winter. But when we got there, we, I'll never forget going, doing our first grocery shop before we went upcountry in a big truck. And, um, it was the whole, the whole class system, the whole racial divide was so clear at the grocery store because all the shoppers were white, all of the cashiers were Indian, and all the baggers were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 14.431790463373579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, my God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was it very British at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, totally. Totally British. Yeah. And Indian. Lots of Indians. Yeah, lots of Indians. I had, one of my daughters-in-law is an Indian. Daughter-in-laws, yeah, whichever it is. Yeah. So but I remember, I'm thinking about this now, that on Sundays you would go, if you were driving around Nairobi, all the parks were filled with Indian families having picnics. They looked so, you know, they all looked so beautiful. Oh, it was, uh, when we moved there, we were very struck. We came from, we lived in Manhattan, we lived in New York, and then we trained in Wisconsin, of all the crazy places to train, in the winter. But when we got there, we, I'll never forget going, doing our first grocery shop before we went upcountry in a big truck. And, um, it was the whole, the whole class system, the whole racial divide was so clear at the grocery store because all the shoppers were white, all of the cashiers were Indian, and all the baggers were Black."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I remember that well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you? Yeah. I, we were just like, how in the world? And I would just never forget that. That was our first shop that we did there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that, were there Indians upcountry as well? Or really only in the city?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.8787536584859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you? Yeah. I, we were just like, how in the world? And I would just never forget that. That was our first shop that we did there. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that, were there Indians upcountry as well? Or really only in the city?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there were Indians up country but not, not in the places where we lived. They were too small, because there weren't any stores that were. Maybe in Thomsons Falls that might have been an Indian family, but certainly not in Njabini, our first place. No, because there weren't any stores. There were no businesses to run. But in the, in the cities uptown, upcountry, like Nakuru or Naivasha, there were definitely Indians, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Then when we moved, we moved after Libya. I'm sorry. You know what it was. But we were in Kenya, we. At one point, after a few years later, we moved to London and lived in London for 11 years. And it was quite fascinating how many Indians had moved from Kenya and Uganda, more Uganda, to London. So it was like our whole past. And then there were people who had been in the colonial service and had been district officers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those were the Indians that had British passports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of the Kenyans and Ugandans didn't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.309726287206555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there were Indians up country but not, not in the places where we lived. They were too small, because there weren't any stores that were. Maybe in Thomsons Falls that might have been an Indian family, but certainly not in Njabini, our first place. No, because there weren't any stores. There were no businesses to run. But in the, in the cities uptown, upcountry, like Nakuru or Naivasha, there were definitely Indians, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Then when we moved, we moved after Libya. I'm sorry. You know what it was. But we were in Kenya, we. At one point, after a few years later, we moved to London and lived in London for 11 years. And it was quite fascinating how many Indians had moved from Kenya and Uganda, more Uganda, to London. So it was like our whole past. And then there were people who had been in the colonial service and had been district officers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And those were the Indians that had British passports?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of the Kenyans and Ugandans didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's another whole East African story that many people don't know. You mentioned you were in training in Wisconsin. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.899695874673949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But a lot of the Kenyans and Ugandans didn't."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's another whole East African story that many people don't know. You mentioned you were in training in Wisconsin. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in training in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 16.55521763852661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's another whole East African story that many people don't know. You mentioned you were in training in Wisconsin. What was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in training in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it was Wisconsin in the winter, you know, we're going to Equatorial Africa. So. But our training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in college in Vermont, so it shouldn't have been that cold."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.505797376140677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in training in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your training like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it was Wisconsin in the winter, you know, we're going to Equatorial Africa. So. But our training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in college in Vermont, so it shouldn't have been that cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I had to get my mother to send my raccoon coat to me for, in, uh, in Wisconsin. Okay. So we had three months of training. And the training was every day, half a day, six days a week, we had language. Swahili. And we studied Swahili with Kenyans, with Swahili speakers. So that was half the day, every day. And the afternoon half, we had lectures on Kenya and on the history of Kenya and on colonization. And so we had special guests that came in from around. And those big departments at Wisconsin, I'm quite sure. Did you go to the University of Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we were at Teachers College in New York."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.117552640156307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, first of all, it was Wisconsin in the winter, you know, we're going to Equatorial Africa. So. But our training was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you were in college in Vermont, so it shouldn't have been that cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but I had to get my mother to send my raccoon coat to me for, in, uh, in Wisconsin. Okay. So we had three months of training. And the training was every day, half a day, six days a week, we had language. Swahili. And we studied Swahili with Kenyans, with Swahili speakers. So that was half the day, every day. And the afternoon half, we had lectures on Kenya and on the history of Kenya and on colonization. And so we had special guests that came in from around. And those big departments at Wisconsin, I'm quite sure. Did you go to the University of Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we were at Teachers College in New York."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you lucky thing. No, not. Teachers College is great. But yeah, I just didn't know if you went there. But I think they have a big Africa department at Wisconsin then. But we were in Milwaukee, University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, and then we did go to Madison so the guys could learn to build latrines. Now, we didn't learn to build latrines, the three of us. It was interesting because the three women were put up, put together with a social worker in Madison. While the guys learned to build latrines and learned everything about agriculture, we learned about poverty. It was very interesting. I'm not quite sure why they did that. I'll never forget it, going with a social worker around to the families that she was supporting and learning how difficult it was to have big families and be poor. And I'm not sure it had a direct, it affected us. But whether it had a direct translation to the work in Kenya, I don't know about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the notion was there were large families that were poor, but you can't translate Wisconsin poverty to Kenyan poverty."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1114961746019, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Kenya, excuse me. When we first, we arrived on New Year's Day 1965 at the airport and we all sang the Kenyan national anthem, which we all still know. But we were on a bus to go out to where we were staying, which might have been a farmers training center. I can't quite remember. And we stopped the bus. And I had gotten the highest marks in Swahili. And, you know, I'm thinking, you know, I am so good. I can understand anybody in Swahili. And so we stopped on the side of the road, and here's this Kikuyu woman. I only know because she had wood on her back. And she started to talk to me. I couldn't understand one single word that she said, because what we had learned was what is called safi Swahili, you know, conjugated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, [speaks Swahili]. That translated to Latin or French, you know, je, tu, vous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she spoke what is called kitchen Swahili, which has no conjugation, just use the base of the, of the verbs. So I realized that I wasn't really so smart as I was. And really I hadn't learned much about the culture, just the language. And you can't know the language without the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So two questions from that. How did you end up learning kitchen Swahili?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.568329082890999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, [speaks Swahili]. That translated to Latin or French, you know, je, tu, vous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she spoke what is called kitchen Swahili, which has no conjugation, just use the base of the, of the verbs. So I realized that I wasn't really so smart as I was. And really I hadn't learned much about the culture, just the language. And you can't know the language without the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So two questions from that. How did you end up learning kitchen Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just by speaking it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it easier to go backwards?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.075921203212221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And she spoke what is called kitchen Swahili, which has no conjugation, just use the base of the, of the verbs. So I realized that I wasn't really so smart as I was. And really I hadn't learned much about the culture, just the language. And you can't know the language without the culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So two questions from that. How did you end up learning kitchen Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just by speaking it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it easier to go backwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It's so easy to go backwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's simpler. Once you know how to conjugate, it's easier to just speak in infinitives."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.639912448013579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just by speaking it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it easier to go backwards?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It's so easy to go backwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's simpler. Once you know how to conjugate, it's easier to just speak in infinitives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And just speak. Yeah, right. That is the word, yes, speaking in infinitives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But is the accent, I mean, is it a different dialect or is Swahili basically Swahili?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0443471644595315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. It's so easy to go backwards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's simpler. Once you know how to conjugate, it's easier to just speak in infinitives."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And just speak. Yeah, right. That is the word, yes, speaking in infinitives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But is the accent, I mean, is it a different dialect or is Swahili basically Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Swahili is a combination of Arabic and Bantu languages, which you probably know, and it was written down by missionaries. So it was pretty, it is pretty much phonetic. It's spoken as it's written. So there isn't much of a, I don't know, but I could always understand everybody and people could hopefully understand me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just said something really interesting. You can't understand the culture unless you understand the language."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.493719071621701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And just speak. Yeah, right. That is the word, yes, speaking in infinitives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But is the accent, I mean, is it a different dialect or is Swahili basically Swahili?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Swahili is a combination of Arabic and Bantu languages, which you probably know, and it was written down by missionaries. So it was pretty, it is pretty much phonetic. It's spoken as it's written. So there isn't much of a, I don't know, but I could always understand everybody and people could hopefully understand me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just said something really interesting. You can't understand the culture unless you understand the language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had all this cultural training in Wisconsin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.993021190690778, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Swahili is a combination of Arabic and Bantu languages, which you probably know, and it was written down by missionaries. So it was pretty, it is pretty much phonetic. It's spoken as it's written. So there isn't much of a, I don't know, but I could always understand everybody and people could hopefully understand me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You just said something really interesting. You can't understand the culture unless you understand the language."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had all this cultural training in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't really cultural training. It was history. It was history of the colonies, history of agriculture, economic history. And it wasn't really that much history of the people, except maybe Mau Mau, which of course, that's not really so much about individuals. That's much more a global concept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should Peace Corps have done more cultural training? Could they have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.547801322989754, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you had all this cultural training in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't really cultural training. It was history. It was history of the colonies, history of agriculture, economic history. And it wasn't really that much history of the people, except maybe Mau Mau, which of course, that's not really so much about individuals. That's much more a global concept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should Peace Corps have done more cultural training? Could they have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. You know, a lot of things you just learn on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after we were in Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.164223692210838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But it wasn't really cultural training. It was history. It was history of the colonies, history of agriculture, economic history. And it wasn't really that much history of the people, except maybe Mau Mau, which of course, that's not really so much about individuals. That's much more a global concept."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Should Peace Corps have done more cultural training? Could they have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. You know, a lot of things you just learn on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after we were in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They moved a lot of the training overseas."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.849137435789819, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. You know, a lot of things you just learn on the ground."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, after we were in Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They moved a lot of the training overseas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So maybe that was really part of the movement to move you into the culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.610152706433133, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They moved a lot of the training overseas."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So maybe that was really part of the movement to move you into the culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. That would be the only way to do it, really, because how are you going to run into a Kikuyu woman carrying wood in Milwaukee?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other interesting anecdotes about training or any thoughts about the effectiveness of the training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.455725229370147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So maybe that was really part of the movement to move you into the culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. That would be the only way to do it, really, because how are you going to run into a Kikuyu woman carrying wood in Milwaukee?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other interesting anecdotes about training or any thoughts about the effectiveness of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Swahili was great training. I just, you know, I had to completely change. I think that the, all of the philosophical and the history, uh, it gave us a great background to understand something that, things that we really needed to understand. Because it was a British colony for a long time, as you well know, and there was still a lot of colonial people living there, colonials living there, lord and lady, this little lady that. And we worked with them. We had to work with them. And of course, they came from a very different kind of background than we did. And at the time, uh, this is in the sixties, you know, everybody was kind of against the colonists and the colonies and all the bad things that they did. But we. And you couldn't really understand much about them other than that until you worked with them and you realized that they, they came from a different background. They came from a different, um, point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had two kinds of cultural experiences."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.39525025485572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. That would be the only way to do it, really, because how are you going to run into a Kikuyu woman carrying wood in Milwaukee?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have any other interesting anecdotes about training or any thoughts about the effectiveness of the training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Swahili was great training. I just, you know, I had to completely change. I think that the, all of the philosophical and the history, uh, it gave us a great background to understand something that, things that we really needed to understand. Because it was a British colony for a long time, as you well know, and there was still a lot of colonial people living there, colonials living there, lord and lady, this little lady that. And we worked with them. We had to work with them. And of course, they came from a very different kind of background than we did. And at the time, uh, this is in the sixties, you know, everybody was kind of against the colonists and the colonies and all the bad things that they did. But we. And you couldn't really understand much about them other than that until you worked with them and you realized that they, they came from a different background. They came from a different, um, point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had two kinds of cultural experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "British colonialists as well as Kikuyu."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.439166949839688, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Swahili was great training. I just, you know, I had to completely change. I think that the, all of the philosophical and the history, uh, it gave us a great background to understand something that, things that we really needed to understand. Because it was a British colony for a long time, as you well know, and there was still a lot of colonial people living there, colonials living there, lord and lady, this little lady that. And we worked with them. We had to work with them. And of course, they came from a very different kind of background than we did. And at the time, uh, this is in the sixties, you know, everybody was kind of against the colonists and the colonies and all the bad things that they did. But we. And you couldn't really understand much about them other than that until you worked with them and you realized that they, they came from a different background. They came from a different, um, point of view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had two kinds of cultural experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "British colonialists as well as Kikuyu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yes. And then there were, of course, other expats that lived, not near where we lived. There were only missionaries. Missionaries lived in Njabini and then also in Thomsons Falls, there were missionaries, and that was a completely different culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about those."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 11.599074388710765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes, at least."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "British colonialists as well as Kikuyu."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yes. And then there were, of course, other expats that lived, not near where we lived. There were only missionaries. Missionaries lived in Njabini and then also in Thomsons Falls, there were missionaries, and that was a completely different culture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Talk a little bit about those."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What country were they from?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.73959801075403, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What country were they from?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, U.S. And one group was Catholic and they were all priests and they were a lot of fun. They played a lot of cards and we lived way out, way out in the country. They lived near in the town. It wasn't a big town, but there were more than three buildings together, you know. So, um, Don was telling me he remembered that one of them made great apple pie. I didn't remember that part. But he remembers that. The Baptist missionaries were, uh, not quite so much fun. They were great to talk to, great to be with, uh, but not quite so much fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were definitely from the South. Then there were of course, there were as I said, there were all the expats that might not have had farms but had moved out there for one reason or another so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like the German doctor."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.79636947226647, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, they have their own little community. Yeah. Well, one thing or another, another group that we learned a lot about, I would say, were the Indian, the Indian community. And there were Indians certainly who lived there. And we, when we would have a big party and we were kind of, since I was a woman and the other two women lived far away, we were kind of the parents of the group and we still are kind of the parents of the group. Uh. I can remember people coming, especially Indians. And I know this now because my daughter-in-law, one of my daughters-in-law, is Indian, that they would bring all their friends. So, you know, you would think you were having X number of people at a big party and you would have X number of people plus. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you, you knew how to cook, which also helped."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I had a house boy, we had a house. We all had house boys, because otherwise we just couldn't have done any of our other work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have fond memories of your houseboy? We had a house boyessa. We had a woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have fond memories of her. What was your guy like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.773743858073855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And I had a house boy, we had a house. We all had house boys, because otherwise we just couldn't have done any of our other work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have fond memories of your houseboy? We had a house boyessa. We had a woman."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have fond memories of her. What was your guy like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can tell you about two of them. I think we only had two. One in one place and one in the other. Okay. I remember Mwongi. Mwongi was our first houseboy and, um, he was a very nice guy and, um, did very well. And we all had a good time together. And then one day I asked, and he used to go to the store to buy things, you know, just down to the shop. And one day I gave him ten shillings to buy something and he never came back. He took the ten shillings and ran. Isn't that funny? Poor guy. He was obviously needing the money and wanting to get away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would think that working for you produced more than ten shillings, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.066350442066486, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I can tell you about two of them. I think we only had two. One in one place and one in the other. Okay. I remember Mwongi. Mwongi was our first houseboy and, um, he was a very nice guy and, um, did very well. And we all had a good time together. And then one day I asked, and he used to go to the store to buy things, you know, just down to the shop. And one day I gave him ten shillings to buy something and he never came back. He took the ten shillings and ran. Isn't that funny? Poor guy. He was obviously needing the money and wanting to get away."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you would think that working for you produced more than ten shillings, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You think so, yes, you would think so. But you never know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just disappeared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just disappeared. Just disappeared and never came back. And we, after he left, we found out that, we had liquor there. I don't know why, but I guess maybe some of the settlers drank liquor, and we discovered that he had been watering down the liquor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And drinking it himself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.40705604674054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You think so, yes, you would think so. But you never know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just disappeared?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just disappeared. Just disappeared and never came back. And we, after he left, we found out that, we had liquor there. I don't know why, but I guess maybe some of the settlers drank liquor, and we discovered that he had been watering down the liquor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And drinking it himself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And drinking it himself. You know, how can you know all these things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's number one. Now I can't wait to hear about number two."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.095130921901898, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And drinking it himself. You know, how can you know all these things?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's number one. Now I can't wait to hear about number two."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, number two, uh, we thought he was really great and he was there. And when we left, I recommended him highly to this British family that lived way up north in the, I mean, we lived in, out in the boonies. But these people lived way out in the boonies. And when I came back, the first time I think I came back, which was a couple of years later, I learned that, no, they didn't like him at all. And they had let him go, that he didn't do a good enough job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, sometimes. At that time anyway, I used to think and I still do think that, you know, we have an apartment back here that's downstairs and back here so that we. [inaudible] No, no, I don't think so. Um. That, you know, Americans at that time were not nearly as exacting as the Brits were. And I was probably not that exacting because I was just, you know, a young person, pregnant, happy to have somebody to help with carrying the water and doing basic, basic cooking. So. So I don't have, no, my memories are not, they're not not fond, but they're not necessarily fond memories. Those were the only two house boys that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. So looking back at all of this, what do you think you accomplished in Kenya from a personal level? What did you get the exotic experience you were looking for? Learning about different cultures?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.550145468779887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, number two, uh, we thought he was really great and he was there. And when we left, I recommended him highly to this British family that lived way up north in the, I mean, we lived in, out in the boonies. But these people lived way out in the boonies. And when I came back, the first time I think I came back, which was a couple of years later, I learned that, no, they didn't like him at all. And they had let him go, that he didn't do a good enough job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, sometimes. At that time anyway, I used to think and I still do think that, you know, we have an apartment back here that's downstairs and back here so that we. [inaudible] No, no, I don't think so. Um. That, you know, Americans at that time were not nearly as exacting as the Brits were. And I was probably not that exacting because I was just, you know, a young person, pregnant, happy to have somebody to help with carrying the water and doing basic, basic cooking. So. So I don't have, no, my memories are not, they're not not fond, but they're not necessarily fond memories. Those were the only two house boys that we had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah. So looking back at all of this, what do you think you accomplished in Kenya from a personal level? What did you get the exotic experience you were looking for? Learning about different cultures?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did it, what did it do for you? And then I'll ask, what did it do for the country? Or individuals."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.479746428863969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did work. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So, uh, yeah. I mean, I do think that we, and we also helped Kenyans to know that there are different ways of looking at Americans. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did people talk to you about the Vietnam War at all? Was, were you a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other members of the group did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But expats or Kenyans?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 17.876230159091318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But expats or Kenyans?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they didn't. Right. So that is not my memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly other expats did, because it was right in the middle of the Vietnam War, as you probably had that, you might have had that experience also. But no, I don't remember that. But we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to communicate an American point of view or contrary to American point of view?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.751366843434795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, they didn't. Right. So that is not my memory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly other expats did, because it was right in the middle of the Vietnam War, as you probably had that, you might have had that experience also. But no, I don't remember that. But we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to communicate an American point of view or contrary to American point of view?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Certainly when I lived in England, I did. But that was way after the Vietnam War but it was, you know, Iran and all that. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no. The only had to do it with expats. But, you know, we were so far out of it, we didn't have, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.50151871492755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Certainly other expats did, because it was right in the middle of the Vietnam War, as you probably had that, you might have had that experience also. But no, I don't remember that. But we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you didn't have to communicate an American point of view or contrary to American point of view?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Certainly when I lived in England, I did. But that was way after the Vietnam War but it was, you know, Iran and all that. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no. The only had to do it with expats. But, you know, we were so far out of it, we didn't have, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know. We used to get a Time magazine like once a week, one of us, and we would pass it around months late. And then we'd get together somehow, someplace, going somewhere together, and we'd have big discussions about the domino theory. And who was going to fall next. And Dien Bien Phu and, oh my God. On and on and on and on. So it certainly did really interest me in the world. My parents were very politically, uh, involved locally and very interested in politics, but I never got that interested until I went overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I just lost the other question. So have you stayed in touch with Kenya at all or with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 15.00168746103061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Certainly when I lived in England, I did. But that was way after the Vietnam War but it was, you know, Iran and all that. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no. The only had to do it with expats. But, you know, we were so far out of it, we didn't have, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They didn't know?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't know. We used to get a Time magazine like once a week, one of us, and we would pass it around months late. And then we'd get together somehow, someplace, going somewhere together, and we'd have big discussions about the domino theory. And who was going to fall next. And Dien Bien Phu and, oh my God. On and on and on and on. So it certainly did really interest me in the world. My parents were very politically, uh, involved locally and very interested in politics, but I never got that interested until I went overseas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. I just lost the other question. So have you stayed in touch with Kenya at all or with other Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We've been back to Kenya only once. We went back with our kids when, our two older kids, when they were young, ten and seven I think. We have not been back since. We were all going to go back last year because there was a, was the 50th anniversary. But Peace Corps pulled out and, you know, so we did not go back and, uh, no, we haven't been back since. We lived over in Europe and we've been to lots of other places and we still would like to go back to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you in touch with former Peace Corps volunteers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3601079765810005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah. We've been back to Kenya only once. We went back with our kids when, our two older kids, when they were young, ten and seven I think. We have not been back since. We were all going to go back last year because there was a, was the 50th anniversary. But Peace Corps pulled out and, you know, so we did not go back and, uh, no, we haven't been back since. We lived over in Europe and we've been to lots of other places and we still would like to go back to Kenya."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you in touch with former Peace Corps volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You know, as I said, we are sort of the hub and we've had ourselves personally three different reunions at our house, McLean and here. We lived overseas for 14 years in Libya and England from '76 to '87, basically. No, that was in England, from '70 basically to '87. And then, um, but so since we've been back here, we have made an effort to get everybody together. And we see people like Mike Davidson and, uh, Dan Ritchie. I don't know if you know Dan Ritchie, he lives here. So Mike, Dan, me, Don, and Jim Connell. That's all. There are five of us who live here in this area, in this area. And then we stay in touch with Bill Sterling, who is out in Aspen. We're going to go, be seeing him soon. And Arthur Levy, who's in London now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All former volunteers in Kenya I?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All in our group. All Kenya I. Yeah, only Kenya I. I mean, we know other Peace Corps volunteers too, but I thought you were asking about Kenya I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I was asking about Kenya I."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5112310850900004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You know, as I said, we are sort of the hub and we've had ourselves personally three different reunions at our house, McLean and here. We lived overseas for 14 years in Libya and England from '76 to '87, basically. No, that was in England, from '70 basically to '87. And then, um, but so since we've been back here, we have made an effort to get everybody together. And we see people like Mike Davidson and, uh, Dan Ritchie. I don't know if you know Dan Ritchie, he lives here. So Mike, Dan, me, Don, and Jim Connell. That's all. There are five of us who live here in this area, in this area. And then we stay in touch with Bill Sterling, who is out in Aspen. We're going to go, be seeing him soon. And Arthur Levy, who's in London now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All former volunteers in Kenya I?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All in our group. All Kenya I. Yeah, only Kenya I. I mean, we know other Peace Corps volunteers too, but I thought you were asking about Kenya I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I was asking about Kenya I."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And has the Kenya group, I mean socially you've gotten together, but have you been involved with Kenya?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6791456501000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All in our group. All Kenya I. Yeah, only Kenya I. I mean, we know other Peace Corps volunteers too, but I thought you were asking about Kenya I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I was asking about Kenya I."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And has the Kenya group, I mean socially you've gotten together, but have you been involved with Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With charity work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.8657173890000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And has the Kenya group, I mean socially you've gotten together, but have you been involved with Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With charity work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or development work since then? Have others?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9619082100000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With charity work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or development work since then? Have others?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some people. I've been, you know, I've been in nonprofits and run nonprofits, but they haven't been. I've been in international nonprofits but haven't been a head of them and have not done any traveling for that kind of work. Just for that kind of work. Oh, let's see. I think one person has a scholarship. But, uh. Yeah, I have. I have. Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah. I did some strategic planning for a group just last year, you know, pro bono."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Involved in Kenya?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.1875410000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, some people. I've been, you know, I've been in nonprofits and run nonprofits, but they haven't been. I've been in international nonprofits but haven't been a head of them and have not done any traveling for that kind of work. Just for that kind of work. Oh, let's see. I think one person has a scholarship. But, uh. Yeah, I have. I have. Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah. I did some strategic planning for a group just last year, you know, pro bono."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Involved in Kenya?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, involved in Kenya. Yes. Involved in heart transplants in little kids in Kenya. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I've been involved in raising money for them. Um. It's hard for me to remember all the different times I've been involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's fine."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.31949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, involved in Kenya. Yes. Involved in heart transplants in little kids in Kenya. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I've been involved in raising money for them. Um. It's hard for me to remember all the different times I've been involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, absolutely. You know, the Kenya embassy is right around the corner here. So we feel close to Kenya, although we don't stop in and talk to them. We did have a reunion there. That was fun. And we do keep in touch with all of the people who will keep us in touch with us. It's only about one or two people who don't want to keep in touch. Every group has, I don't know how many people you had in your group. We had 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had, uh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I've been involved in raising money for them. Um. It's hard for me to remember all the different times I've been involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's, that's fine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, absolutely. You know, the Kenya embassy is right around the corner here. So we feel close to Kenya, although we don't stop in and talk to them. We did have a reunion there. That was fun. And we do keep in touch with all of the people who will keep us in touch with us. It's only about one or two people who don't want to keep in touch. Every group has, I don't know how many people you had in your group. We had 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something like that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But yeah, absolutely. You know, the Kenya embassy is right around the corner here. So we feel close to Kenya, although we don't stop in and talk to them. We did have a reunion there. That was fun. And we do keep in touch with all of the people who will keep us in touch with us. It's only about one or two people who don't want to keep in touch. Every group has, I don't know how many people you had in your group. We had 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We had, uh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I see. Yeah, they were pretty small groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were small, small groups. We've kind of merged all of the Somalia groups because they weren't so many of them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Something like that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I see. Yeah, they were pretty small groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were small, small groups. We've kind of merged all of the Somalia groups because they weren't so many of them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we've gotten to know other people from other groups as well. But there were many more in Kenya than in Somalia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we've gotten to know other people from other groups as well. But there were many more in Kenya than in Somalia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We know other Kenya volunteers too. We do. And we've sort of kept up with them. Yes, absolutely. We've been very involved in a, um, a documentary that's being made about Kenya. It's called The Towering Task. I think you might maybe might have mentioned it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're helping the producer. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that you want to say that I didn't ask you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We know other Kenya volunteers too. We do. And we've sort of kept up with them. Yes, absolutely. We've been very involved in a, um, a documentary that's being made about Kenya. It's called The Towering Task. I think you might maybe might have mentioned it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're helping the producer. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that you want to say that I didn't ask you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. Well, it certainly was, I mean, it's so banal to say this, but it definitely was a life changing experience. There's no question about it. It was a way I wanted to have my life change because I wanted to understand better how people lived in various countries around the world. And I wanted to be exposed to all of that and I wanted to be able to travel.\n\nNow, I think that the fact that we were in the Peace Corps certainly changed our family's life as well, obviously, because then we lived overseas after that. We came back here, then we lived in Libya, and then we lived in England. So that the kids, our three children, have an international outlook. All of them do, although none of them were in the Peace Corps. They all did some kind of volunteer work, two of them in Japan, one of them here in the States, after college. They all, and actually everybody is, they all are. It's very interesting. All the three kids are in either government or nonprofit. And their wives, yeah, one is a doctor and one's a lawyer, but they're all in service work, which is interesting. Some kind of service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it goes on from one generation to the next."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're helping the producer. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any things that you want to say that I didn't ask you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let me see. Well, it certainly was, I mean, it's so banal to say this, but it definitely was a life changing experience. There's no question about it. It was a way I wanted to have my life change because I wanted to understand better how people lived in various countries around the world. And I wanted to be exposed to all of that and I wanted to be able to travel.\n\nNow, I think that the fact that we were in the Peace Corps certainly changed our family's life as well, obviously, because then we lived overseas after that. We came back here, then we lived in Libya, and then we lived in England. So that the kids, our three children, have an international outlook. All of them do, although none of them were in the Peace Corps. They all did some kind of volunteer work, two of them in Japan, one of them here in the States, after college. They all, and actually everybody is, they all are. It's very interesting. All the three kids are in either government or nonprofit. And their wives, yeah, one is a doctor and one's a lawyer, but they're all in service work, which is interesting. Some kind of service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it goes on from one generation to the next."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's not appropriate for this interview, but at the same thing happened in our family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's not appropriate for this interview, but at the same thing happened in our family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In your family too. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I thank you. This has been a really good interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00011:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In your family too. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most definitely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. So, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I thank you. This has been a really good interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, thank you. I hope that I've given you the kinds of things that you want."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, definitely. And it'll be archived and other people can access it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 53.57967571913693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know if it's still there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The original one is still there, but it's no longer being used. They built a new one for the Shuttle missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, okay. I understand that. I thought you meant the offices. Yes, the control center, I'm sure they still use it, don't they, for something?\\n\\n [Begin Tape 1, Side 2]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The one that they built at that time is no longer being used."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. About midway through the Shuttle Program they built a new one, but the other one is still there, and now they're refurbishing it to meet the Apollo 11 configuration."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 42.6564467506439, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'81. That's a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. If I could, I'd like to backtrack a little bit and ask you a few questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I had a few points here and there. You spent most of your time with NASA as an employee of Goddard, but working at the Manned Spacecraft Center, the Johnson Space Center. Did that create any problems, or were there any issues with that, and how often did you spend actually back at Goddard, if any time at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, I'd go back there every couple of months and spend a week, talk to the guys and get up to speed on anything new that was happening, and show the flag, you know, show my face, that I still worked there. If you don't, people kind of forget, they forget to call you, and you can't have that. You've got to know everything that's going on.\\n\\n Like I mentioned, I was going to tell you about this guy Clark. He called one day, and I don't know whether he'd ever talked to Covington about this or not, and he said, \"I want you to talk to Kraft and see if they will take the network.\"\\n\\n God, I almost fell out of my chair. I said, \"Are you sure that's what you want?\"\\n\\n He said, \"Yes.\" He said, \"Call me back as soon as you can.\"\\n\\n So Chris and I usually had lunch three or four times a week, and so I asked he and Sig. They didn't want it then. They did ten years earlier, but at that point in time they didn't want it. I don't know if anybody ever knew that that happened. I don't think so. I never told any of the guys. They would have really been upset. The Goddard guys, that is. I never told them anything. I never told any of the JSC guys, outside of Chris and Sig."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why were they looking to divest themselves of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.483184868273078, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While we're talking about events, do you remember some of the later ones, such as the landing and first EVA [extravehicular activity] on Apollo 11?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was in the viewing room. Have you been in that viewing room, the old viewing room?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're facing—there's a little telephone booth-like place over on the right. I was leaning up against that, sitting on the floor, and Kenny [Kenneth S.] Kleinknecht was behind me. He was asleep. When they finally started landing, I woke him up, and the place was packed. You could have heard a pin drop. The room was designed for probably 60 people, and it probably had 150 in there. Late at night, everybody was dead. But that, to me, probably was the most exciting time I've ever had at NASA, when they started landing. There was no other feeling like that. It was like watching a man, some snake trainer, put his hand on a cobra, anything can happen any minute and probably will, but it didn't, thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you look back on your career as a whole, both with NASA and before you joined the space program, what do you regard as your greatest accomplishment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 22.759094298081198, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was in the viewing room. Have you been in that viewing room, the old viewing room?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're facing—there's a little telephone booth-like place over on the right. I was leaning up against that, sitting on the floor, and Kenny [Kenneth S.] Kleinknecht was behind me. He was asleep. When they finally started landing, I woke him up, and the place was packed. You could have heard a pin drop. The room was designed for probably 60 people, and it probably had 150 in there. Late at night, everybody was dead. But that, to me, probably was the most exciting time I've ever had at NASA, when they started landing. There was no other feeling like that. It was like watching a man, some snake trainer, put his hand on a cobra, anything can happen any minute and probably will, but it didn't, thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you look back on your career as a whole, both with NASA and before you joined the space program, what do you regard as your greatest accomplishment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's hard to say. You know, I didn't invent anything. I didn't fly any airplanes. The only thing that I ever did that was meaningful to the space program was try to get everything, help everything coordinated and going in one direction. I didn't have a lot of people working for me, just a few. All I ever tried to do was keep the wheels turning. I guess I did that to some degree. There's nothing that stands out that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That itself is an accomplishment, given the difficulties of that at the time, particularly early on."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.937153454421228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's hard to say. You know, I didn't invent anything. I didn't fly any airplanes. The only thing that I ever did that was meaningful to the space program was try to get everything, help everything coordinated and going in one direction. I didn't have a lot of people working for me, just a few. All I ever tried to do was keep the wheels turning. I guess I did that to some degree. There's nothing that stands out that—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That itself is an accomplishment, given the difficulties of that at the time, particularly early on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even sure they have anybody there doing that now. In fact, I would doubt they do. I don't know what he would do. All these people, I got to be friends with them and know them well. [Neil A.] Armstrong became a friend. When he was announced, his group was announced, we were all at the Colony Seven Motel. That's where they did it, at Cocoa Beach [Florida]. I don't think it's there anymore. It was about noon and we were in the bar area. There was some reporters all around. He was there, and I got to talk to him. I said, \"You're coming in at the perfect time.\" I said, \"You've got a great chance to be the first man on the Moon.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's remarkably prescient."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He mentioned that to me a couple of times. He didn't think so. I knew [Edwin E. \"Buzz\"] Aldrin. Aldrin was very upset that he was not the first man on the Moon, very, very upset. His father was even more upset. His father was a general, I think, in the Army. But I don't know if that story ever was discussed by anyone or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of Buzz Aldrin's books, I think he talks about that a little bit."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 23.263503838245807, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not even sure they have anybody there doing that now. In fact, I would doubt they do. I don't know what he would do. All these people, I got to be friends with them and know them well. [Neil A.] Armstrong became a friend. When he was announced, his group was announced, we were all at the Colony Seven Motel. That's where they did it, at Cocoa Beach [Florida]. I don't think it's there anymore. It was about noon and we were in the bar area. There was some reporters all around. He was there, and I got to talk to him. I said, \"You're coming in at the perfect time.\" I said, \"You've got a great chance to be the first man on the Moon.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's remarkably prescient."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He mentioned that to me a couple of times. He didn't think so. I knew [Edwin E. \"Buzz\"] Aldrin. Aldrin was very upset that he was not the first man on the Moon, very, very upset. His father was even more upset. His father was a general, I think, in the Army. But I don't know if that story ever was discussed by anyone or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of Buzz Aldrin's books, I think he talks about that a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He'd talk about it more with a drink in his hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's usually the case with a lot of people, I think."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.626115375828675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He mentioned that to me a couple of times. He didn't think so. I knew [Edwin E. \"Buzz\"] Aldrin. Aldrin was very upset that he was not the first man on the Moon, very, very upset. His father was even more upset. His father was a general, I think, in the Army. But I don't know if that story ever was discussed by anyone or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In one of Buzz Aldrin's books, I think he talks about that a little bit."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He'd talk about it more with a drink in his hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's usually the case with a lot of people, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He felt that Kraft and those guys shafted him, but they, as far as I was concerned, they didn't shaft him, he was campaigning for it so hard, everybody's wondered \"What's the deal here? Why does he want—\" He wanted his name to be first. His father campaigned with—there was heavy pressure from the congressmen to do that, but they didn't do it.\\n\\n After the flight, he lived in Nassau Bay there, and I was at a cocktail party at his house, his wife really upset. She was bending my ear because she said nobody would offer a Buzz a job. I didn't know anything about that. I said, \"He probably wants to be president of the company. I'm sure he wouldn't take a job as an engineer. He'd want something big.\" But as far as I know, Buzz never did go to work for anybody in a big job. Really, neither did Armstrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's remained a pretty private person since then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.251239306476304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. He'd talk about it more with a drink in his hand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's usually the case with a lot of people, I think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He felt that Kraft and those guys shafted him, but they, as far as I was concerned, they didn't shaft him, he was campaigning for it so hard, everybody's wondered \"What's the deal here? Why does he want—\" He wanted his name to be first. His father campaigned with—there was heavy pressure from the congressmen to do that, but they didn't do it.\\n\\n After the flight, he lived in Nassau Bay there, and I was at a cocktail party at his house, his wife really upset. She was bending my ear because she said nobody would offer a Buzz a job. I didn't know anything about that. I said, \"He probably wants to be president of the company. I'm sure he wouldn't take a job as an engineer. He'd want something big.\" But as far as I know, Buzz never did go to work for anybody in a big job. Really, neither did Armstrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's remained a pretty private person since then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very private. We've talked about that a lot in the past, he could have been a millionaire, done anything he wanted to do. As far as I know, he never wrote a book. Is he on your list to interview?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is. We hope to interview him sometime in the near future."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.05693256275145, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He felt that Kraft and those guys shafted him, but they, as far as I was concerned, they didn't shaft him, he was campaigning for it so hard, everybody's wondered \"What's the deal here? Why does he want—\" He wanted his name to be first. His father campaigned with—there was heavy pressure from the congressmen to do that, but they didn't do it.\\n\\n After the flight, he lived in Nassau Bay there, and I was at a cocktail party at his house, his wife really upset. She was bending my ear because she said nobody would offer a Buzz a job. I didn't know anything about that. I said, \"He probably wants to be president of the company. I'm sure he wouldn't take a job as an engineer. He'd want something big.\" But as far as I know, Buzz never did go to work for anybody in a big job. Really, neither did Armstrong."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's remained a pretty private person since then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very private. We've talked about that a lot in the past, he could have been a millionaire, done anything he wanted to do. As far as I know, he never wrote a book. Is he on your list to interview?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is. We hope to interview him sometime in the near future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it'd be great if he wrote a book, but he's not going to do it. He's just that kind of a guy. I remember he never had any money. My wife sold his house down in Seabrook and he needed the money out of it. I though, jeez, here's a guy that landed on the Moon, somebody should be giving him some money. It didn't work that way.\\n\\n What else can we talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's most of the questions that I had, but I would like to give Rebecca a chance to ask any questions, if she's come up with any.\n\nI have a couple. You mentioned going down to the Cape and being in the control room, or being in control of the control center in some of the missions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.174369514168276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very, very private. We've talked about that a lot in the past, he could have been a millionaire, done anything he wanted to do. As far as I know, he never wrote a book. Is he on your list to interview?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He is. We hope to interview him sometime in the near future."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it'd be great if he wrote a book, but he's not going to do it. He's just that kind of a guy. I remember he never had any money. My wife sold his house down in Seabrook and he needed the money out of it. I though, jeez, here's a guy that landed on the Moon, somebody should be giving him some money. It didn't work that way.\\n\\n What else can we talk about?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think that's most of the questions that I had, but I would like to give Rebecca a chance to ask any questions, if she's come up with any.\n\nI have a couple. You mentioned going down to the Cape and being in the control room, or being in control of the control center in some of the missions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you elaborate a little bit more about what those duties were, how many people were there? What's your whole perception of having that responsibility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.523536035360976, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a legacy. Piece of work. There are not many of those kind of guys left. I don't know of any. But there was some pieces of work out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you're speaking of people, you've mentioned many names. Did you have any dealings with Bob Gilruth?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not an awful lot. Gilruth stayed away from the tracking and data. He just left that with Chris altogether. He didn't seem to be interested. I knew him and talked to him, but he never wanted to talk about it. Never. He'd just say, \"You guys, you and Chris got it going all right?\"\\n\\n \"Yes, doing fine.\"\\n\\n And that's all he wanted to know. Never got involved in any of the technical workings. Didn't seem to interest him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your travels take you to any of the sites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I went to quite a few of the sites. At one time—let's see, I think there's an astronaut there now. I was going to Australia to be the NASA rep out of Headquarters, and I got a little resistance on the home front. Joyce didn't really want to go. I didn't want to go without her. I vacillated a while there. I can't remember the astronaut's name that they sent. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd know it if I heard it. By that time lots of them were coming in.\\n\\n I probably left too quick. If I hadn't had that company, I probably would have stayed another couple of years. I don't know what I would have done, but I might have taken the job in Australia then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the other sites that you had a chance to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 29.47059559484553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not an awful lot. Gilruth stayed away from the tracking and data. He just left that with Chris altogether. He didn't seem to be interested. I knew him and talked to him, but he never wanted to talk about it. Never. He'd just say, \"You guys, you and Chris got it going all right?\"\\n\\n \"Yes, doing fine.\"\\n\\n And that's all he wanted to know. Never got involved in any of the technical workings. Didn't seem to interest him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your travels take you to any of the sites?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, I went to quite a few of the sites. At one time—let's see, I think there's an astronaut there now. I was going to Australia to be the NASA rep out of Headquarters, and I got a little resistance on the home front. Joyce didn't really want to go. I didn't want to go without her. I vacillated a while there. I can't remember the astronaut's name that they sent. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd know it if I heard it. By that time lots of them were coming in.\\n\\n I probably left too quick. If I hadn't had that company, I probably would have stayed another couple of years. I don't know what I would have done, but I might have taken the job in Australia then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the other sites that you had a chance to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to South America, down the chain there. We had a station at Lima, Peru, and Santiago, Chile. Then the ships, a couple of the ships were down there, and I went out on the ships. That was something. Down the Florida chain, the stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you describe some of the facilities or some of the conditions that those guys were in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.9961313398119, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wouldn't be me. Somebody would have done it anyway. I enjoyed that kind of work. When I look back on my career, that's all I ever did. I never really did anything as far as building an engineering group or working on this piece of equipment and designing something new, or running an organization that was operations or whatever. I never did that. All I ever did was deal with people. That's about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one last duty and role question to ask you. You said Tec Roberts took your job when you left. Could you tell us what you were doing at that time that he moved over from the network job to come to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm still officially at Vandenberg, but knowing what I told you a while ago, I knew that that was going to be a dead dodo soon. I got out, but I was officially still at Vandenberg. Chris and Tec were very, very close, so he had no compunction about offering a seat in his suite there to Tec, and Goddard had no compunction about offering him the job, since he wanted it. It was funny, though. We did that kind of round-robin thing there over the years. Might be interesting to check when you get back to see if they have a Goddard rep. I doubt if they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll have to look into that for you and get back with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It'd be in the phone book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess looking back, the decision not to go to the gunnery division was a good one."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.329034822013222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I'm still officially at Vandenberg, but knowing what I told you a while ago, I knew that that was going to be a dead dodo soon. I got out, but I was officially still at Vandenberg. Chris and Tec were very, very close, so he had no compunction about offering a seat in his suite there to Tec, and Goddard had no compunction about offering him the job, since he wanted it. It was funny, though. We did that kind of round-robin thing there over the years. Might be interesting to check when you get back to see if they have a Goddard rep. I doubt if they do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'll have to look into that for you and get back with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It'd be in the phone book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess looking back, the decision not to go to the gunnery division was a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was made for me. I didn't get a chance to make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it resulted in good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.810038691125802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It'd be in the phone book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess looking back, the decision not to go to the gunnery division was a good one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was made for me. I didn't get a chance to make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it resulted in good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wouldn't be here, I don't think. No way. Those were bad days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to give you an opportunity to fill in anything else we may not have covered, or if there's any other stories you want to tell or people you might want to mention that you didn't think of at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.122265212362002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was made for me. I didn't get a chance to make it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it resulted in good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wouldn't be here, I don't think. No way. Those were bad days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to give you an opportunity to fill in anything else we may not have covered, or if there's any other stories you want to tell or people you might want to mention that you didn't think of at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you could find him, if he's still alive, Ozro M. Covington, that would be a great guy to interview. He lives in Texas if he's alive, I think up around Nacogdoches, somewhere in that area, on a lake. Ozzie would be, oh, God, he'd be eighty-four or five. I don't know. I doubt if he's alive. Do you run across any of these people on your list that are dead? I can see some of them are dead here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The list that we provided for you are the ones that we've already talked to. Those are actual participants in the project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.358072458180002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I wouldn't be here, I don't think. No way. Those were bad days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to give you an opportunity to fill in anything else we may not have covered, or if there's any other stories you want to tell or people you might want to mention that you didn't think of at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you could find him, if he's still alive, Ozro M. Covington, that would be a great guy to interview. He lives in Texas if he's alive, I think up around Nacogdoches, somewhere in that area, on a lake. Ozzie would be, oh, God, he'd be eighty-four or five. I don't know. I doubt if he's alive. Do you run across any of these people on your list that are dead? I can see some of them are dead here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The list that we provided for you are the ones that we've already talked to. Those are actual participants in the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good. Good. Yes, it's like everything else, I read an article in the paper the other day that said something like 10,000 people a month from World War II are dying out. There won't be many of them left shortly. It's hard to believe. It seems like yesterday. But I didn't think I'd live to be seventy-four. If I'd known I was going to live that long, I'd have taken better care of myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to thank you for participating today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.731191620200002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you could find him, if he's still alive, Ozro M. Covington, that would be a great guy to interview. He lives in Texas if he's alive, I think up around Nacogdoches, somewhere in that area, on a lake. Ozzie would be, oh, God, he'd be eighty-four or five. I don't know. I doubt if he's alive. Do you run across any of these people on your list that are dead? I can see some of them are dead here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The list that we provided for you are the ones that we've already talked to. Those are actual participants in the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good. Good. Yes, it's like everything else, I read an article in the paper the other day that said something like 10,000 people a month from World War II are dying out. There won't be many of them left shortly. It's hard to believe. It seems like yesterday. But I didn't think I'd live to be seventy-four. If I'd known I was going to live that long, I'd have taken better care of myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to thank you for participating today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure. I know this is not a very exciting one, and I don't think you're going to get many people that want to listen to it, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we've learned lots of details that we haven't had before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.256879578000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, good. Good. Yes, it's like everything else, I read an article in the paper the other day that said something like 10,000 people a month from World War II are dying out. There won't be many of them left shortly. It's hard to believe. It seems like yesterday. But I didn't think I'd live to be seventy-four. If I'd known I was going to live that long, I'd have taken better care of myself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'd like to thank you for participating today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure. I know this is not a very exciting one, and I don't think you're going to get many people that want to listen to it, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we've learned lots of details that we haven't had before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is.\n\nThat's what the project hopes to accomplish each time we talk to someone is to get one more piece that hasn't been recorded before, and I believe you've been able to fill in some of those spots. When you get your transcript back, if you feel like you can add a little bit more, than please do so. We'd be glad to have as much as you'll offer."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:106", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.952088420000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My pleasure. I know this is not a very exciting one, and I don't think you're going to get many people that want to listen to it, but—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we've learned lots of details that we haven't had before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is.\n\nThat's what the project hopes to accomplish each time we talk to someone is to get one more piece that hasn't been recorded before, and I believe you've been able to fill in some of those spots. When you get your transcript back, if you feel like you can add a little bit more, than please do so. We'd be glad to have as much as you'll offer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, be glad to. Yes, sometimes I think of a gem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it's one you can share, we'd like to have it. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:108", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.835653800000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is.\n\nThat's what the project hopes to accomplish each time we talk to someone is to get one more piece that hasn't been recorded before, and I believe you've been able to fill in some of those spots. When you get your transcript back, if you feel like you can add a little bit more, than please do so. We'd be glad to have as much as you'll offer."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, be glad to. Yes, sometimes I think of a gem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it's one you can share, we'd like to have it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [Laughter] It has to be clean, huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it has to be something you want to share."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 18.706282, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure, be glad to. Yes, sometimes I think of a gem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If it's one you can share, we'd like to have it. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. [Laughter] It has to be clean, huh?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it has to be something you want to share."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, I guess the most interesting is I got to meet everybody, like [Robert L.] Crippen, he and I are very close. I was amazed when he became administrator. How in the hell was this guy that I go out drinking with, how could he be administrator? He don't know enough. He's a Texas boy. His mother ran a beer joint up in the county beyond Harris County, the next one up north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Waller or Montgomery?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.4522, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You know, I guess the most interesting is I got to meet everybody, like [Robert L.] Crippen, he and I are very close. I was amazed when he became administrator. How in the hell was this guy that I go out drinking with, how could he be administrator? He don't know enough. He's a Texas boy. His mother ran a beer joint up in the county beyond Harris County, the next one up north."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Waller or Montgomery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say Montgomery. She had a beer joint that had no name, and she served beer and sandwiches. I went in up there one time with him. Unreal. But he was a character. I don't mean in a bad way. All these people were their own men.\\n\\n I got to know Shepard real well. I played golf, and all the golfers stuck together. When I first went there, I started playing golf. They needed a foursome with Sjoberg and Kraft and Bob Thompson, and I was on a foursome with them for ten or twelve years.\\n\\n Then Chris and I joined another club, Golf Crest, which is out at Pearland and we joined it. I joined it when it was still up there in South Houston. I can't remember what street it was on. They sold it and built a new one, opened in 1970. He and I joined up there, well, it was '65. So I knew all these guys by playing golf with them. They're more close knit. They go on outings together and stick together. Dick [Richard S.] Johnston. I don't know if you interviewed Dick or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dick has suffered some ill health. I don't know how he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't heard recently."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.058, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd say Montgomery. She had a beer joint that had no name, and she served beer and sandwiches. I went in up there one time with him. Unreal. But he was a character. I don't mean in a bad way. All these people were their own men.\\n\\n I got to know Shepard real well. I played golf, and all the golfers stuck together. When I first went there, I started playing golf. They needed a foursome with Sjoberg and Kraft and Bob Thompson, and I was on a foursome with them for ten or twelve years.\\n\\n Then Chris and I joined another club, Golf Crest, which is out at Pearland and we joined it. I joined it when it was still up there in South Houston. I can't remember what street it was on. They sold it and built a new one, opened in 1970. He and I joined up there, well, it was '65. So I knew all these guys by playing golf with them. They're more close knit. They go on outings together and stick together. Dick [Richard S.] Johnston. I don't know if you interviewed Dick or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dick has suffered some ill health. I don't know how he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't heard recently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's not doing well. Dick was part of our group out there and Sjoberg. Sjoberg finally quite playing, though. But anyway, Chris and I used to be partners in tournaments and we'd go all over the country down through there playing in golf tournaments. So anyway, you get close to people when you do all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a time for relaxation, or did you talk shop while you all were on the golf course?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00152:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 15.620000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dick has suffered some ill health. I don't know how he is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I haven't heard recently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's not doing well. Dick was part of our group out there and Sjoberg. Sjoberg finally quite playing, though. But anyway, Chris and I used to be partners in tournaments and we'd go all over the country down through there playing in golf tournaments. So anyway, you get close to people when you do all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a time for relaxation, or did you talk shop while you all were on the golf course?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sometimes if we needed something, we'd talk. Plenty of time going there and back and on the course. He'd get invited, as a famous guy, he'd get invited to a lot of places, and invite me along to go with him, even though I didn't work for the center. He always said he needed somebody that he didn't control to bounce ideas off. I didn't work for him, so I didn't have to listen to what he said. I could argue with him about things, where if I worked for him, I couldn't do that.\\n\\n In fact, the secretary that he had, the last one, he had a couple of other girls that really wanted that job bad, and he asked me to head up a group of three people to select him a new secretary. We selected this girl and he told everybody that I did it so that they didn't have any argument about it, because it was a very coveted job. This girl was great. Betty Sue Fedderson. There'd be one to interview. She was Chris' secretary for many years. She lives there in Nassau Bay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that quite an adjustment for you to move to Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.59902436290096, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was always motivated very young by Kennedy. There was, I used to. When I was 14 years old, 13, whatever, I followed Kennedy speeches. I listened to him. I was, I was very taken by them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were you in 1960?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In New York, I was actually on, I lived on Long Island, in Jericho, Long Island. And I was politically motivated. I was president of my class and all that. And I edited my newspaper and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to high school on Long Island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island, yeah, Jericho High School. And actually, when Kennedy died in '63, I was in, I was in Washington when that happened. And I visited the gravesite with my class. And I have a picture still framed of me at the, with the eternal flame and all that. So the idea of the Peace Corps was always very strong with me, and it had a lot to do with the idealism that Kennedy represented and what he brought. However, by the time I was ready to go into the Peace Corps or even consider it, we had a war going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go from high school then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 38.44336040322329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In New York, I was actually on, I lived on Long Island, in Jericho, Long Island. And I was politically motivated. I was president of my class and all that. And I edited my newspaper and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to high school on Long Island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island, yeah, Jericho High School. And actually, when Kennedy died in '63, I was in, I was in Washington when that happened. And I visited the gravesite with my class. And I have a picture still framed of me at the, with the eternal flame and all that. So the idea of the Peace Corps was always very strong with me, and it had a lot to do with the idealism that Kennedy represented and what he brought. However, by the time I was ready to go into the Peace Corps or even consider it, we had a war going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go from high school then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From high school I went to college. I went to UCLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during this time in college, did you do anything related to travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.82595600358143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On Long Island, yeah, Jericho High School. And actually, when Kennedy died in '63, I was in, I was in Washington when that happened. And I visited the gravesite with my class. And I have a picture still framed of me at the, with the eternal flame and all that. So the idea of the Peace Corps was always very strong with me, and it had a lot to do with the idealism that Kennedy represented and what he brought. However, by the time I was ready to go into the Peace Corps or even consider it, we had a war going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's go from high school then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From high school I went to college. I went to UCLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during this time in college, did you do anything related to travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to, no, the only. I did travel. I spent one summer in Europe. I spent, I think I had $300. And I think I went for three months throughout Europe, Spain and France and England. And it was quite an interesting, Italy, experience to me. And I must have seen every cathedral and every museum that you could possibly do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any volunteer work during the year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.25106222620159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "From high school I went to college. I went to UCLA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during this time in college, did you do anything related to travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to, no, the only. I did travel. I spent one summer in Europe. I spent, I think I had $300. And I think I went for three months throughout Europe, Spain and France and England. And it was quite an interesting, Italy, experience to me. And I must have seen every cathedral and every museum that you could possibly do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any volunteer work during the year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not that I can remember. I was very occupied as a writer. I became the editor of UCLA's humor magazine, satirical magazine, called Satyr, S-A-T-Y-R. And, um. And, uh, I didn't have much of a staff, so I did a lot of the, most of the magazine myself. But I, you know, I had an art director and all that stuff and it paid me. I was able to, I mean, I had a budget, so I was able to get a salary. At that time, I think I made $150 a month and that paid for my $90 apartment and some of my food and expenses and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you studying?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.5011802513351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to, no, the only. I did travel. I spent one summer in Europe. I spent, I think I had $300. And I think I went for three months throughout Europe, Spain and France and England. And it was quite an interesting, Italy, experience to me. And I must have seen every cathedral and every museum that you could possibly do at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you do any volunteer work during the year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not really. Not that I can remember. I was very occupied as a writer. I became the editor of UCLA's humor magazine, satirical magazine, called Satyr, S-A-T-Y-R. And, um. And, uh, I didn't have much of a staff, so I did a lot of the, most of the magazine myself. But I, you know, I had an art director and all that stuff and it paid me. I was able to, I mean, I had a budget, so I was able to get a salary. At that time, I think I made $150 a month and that paid for my $90 apartment and some of my food and expenses and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were you studying?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I majored. I started as a political science major, and I moved over to English by my sophomore year. I was more interested in literature, and so I majored in English and I started writing a novel actually while I was in at UCLA and finished it before I left. And then the last year, I mean, as the war got intensified in Vietnam, there was much more of a concern about what one does. I was thinking of going to graduate school, and at that time, San Francisco State, I think, had the best writing program, and I was very interested in attending that. But I also knew that unless you were going into medical school, I don't think you're going to get deferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was '67?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 35.31009907572234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I majored. I started as a political science major, and I moved over to English by my sophomore year. I was more interested in literature, and so I majored in English and I started writing a novel actually while I was in at UCLA and finished it before I left. And then the last year, I mean, as the war got intensified in Vietnam, there was much more of a concern about what one does. I was thinking of going to graduate school, and at that time, San Francisco State, I think, had the best writing program, and I was very interested in attending that. But I also knew that unless you were going into medical school, I don't think you're going to get deferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was '67?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "'67, '68, yeah, '68. The June of '68."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so I, as I started to realize that, um, there was a situation here that I had to make some decisions about. What I realized also was that I was a conscientious objector. I just objected to the nature of war itself. And I started to do a lot of research. I spoke to rabbis, I spoke to priests, I spoke to, I remember speaking to a Yale graduate who, um, I think he even had his doctorate, who worked as a tree trimmer. And I remember spending a lot of time with this man because he said to me, it was the only job he could see that didn't contribute to the war in some effort. And know this this didn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was during your senior year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.90011008413593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "'67, '68, yeah, '68. The June of '68."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so I, as I started to realize that, um, there was a situation here that I had to make some decisions about. What I realized also was that I was a conscientious objector. I just objected to the nature of war itself. And I started to do a lot of research. I spoke to rabbis, I spoke to priests, I spoke to, I remember speaking to a Yale graduate who, um, I think he even had his doctorate, who worked as a tree trimmer. And I remember spending a lot of time with this man because he said to me, it was the only job he could see that didn't contribute to the war in some effort. And know this this didn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was during your senior year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was during my senior year most likely. And, um, although maybe it was towards junior senior year because I remember applying to the Peace Corps, but still took about a six, nine month process or something, you know, once you applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which board you were registered with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 35.444566760151034, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, um, so I, as I started to realize that, um, there was a situation here that I had to make some decisions about. What I realized also was that I was a conscientious objector. I just objected to the nature of war itself. And I started to do a lot of research. I spoke to rabbis, I spoke to priests, I spoke to, I remember speaking to a Yale graduate who, um, I think he even had his doctorate, who worked as a tree trimmer. And I remember spending a lot of time with this man because he said to me, it was the only job he could see that didn't contribute to the war in some effort. And know this this didn't do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was during your senior year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was during my senior year most likely. And, um, although maybe it was towards junior senior year because I remember applying to the Peace Corps, but still took about a six, nine month process or something, you know, once you applied."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember which board you were registered with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was registered with the Great Neck Board in Great Neck, Long Island, and not Westwood, although it probably wouldn't have mattered because from my understanding, the two most difficult draft boards in the United States were Westwood and Great Neck. They didn't let you out for any reasons, and they were, you know, so it was hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you don't recall when you first [inaudible]?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 42.713864898873695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, he wasn't. He was actually from, he was actually Indian and his name was Paul Sequoia. And I still keep in touch with him. And he became the principal of a high school on Long Island. Very sweet man. And anyway, so but he used to tell me these stories about growing up in Kenya. When I applied and I got back that I got into Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the application process? Did you have to take an entrance exam and get six references?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had to get. Oh, there were tons of references. I don't think six, but I remember that the FBI did a check on you and the, um, you were very thoroughly investigated during this period of time. And that was one of my concerns was that I had because I was, I wrote a column in the newspaper and the Daily Bruin. And a lot of the things I did were antiwar. And so I always wondered, I mean, I thought I fit in ideally in the Peace Corps, but who knew what they were going to do, take you or not take you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all these [inaudible] went into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what month it was where they finally responded?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 43.015405443192996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you had to get. Oh, there were tons of references. I don't think six, but I remember that the FBI did a check on you and the, um, you were very thoroughly investigated during this period of time. And that was one of my concerns was that I had because I was, I wrote a column in the newspaper and the Daily Bruin. And a lot of the things I did were antiwar. And so I always wondered, I mean, I thought I fit in ideally in the Peace Corps, but who knew what they were going to do, take you or not take you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So all these [inaudible] went into Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember what month it was where they finally responded?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see. I mean, we left at the probably in June of '68, so I probably would have been accepted a couple of months earlier at least. So, you know, to get some idea. So it had probably been sometime after January, February of '68, I would have heard that I'd gotten into Ghana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you've been out of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.804968510548555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wired with, you know. Now, those are stories that, are they apocryphal or not? I don't know. He wrote that this happened and it happened to him. And that was what made me all the more determined not to ever put myself in a situation where I would be faced with having to shoot a six year old boy or perhaps get myself blown up as well. It just made no sense to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you report to Philadelphia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "35 people. We had a group of 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you describe them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.672187233942836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to Philadelphia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were in your group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "35 people. We had a group of 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you describe them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very, they were an interesting group of people. There was probably half and half men and women. And I remember one was a philosophy major. Most of them were young. No, I don't think, I don't think anybody was over 25, 28 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this time you were like, what, 21?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.96909692660315, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "35 people. We had a group of 35."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how would you describe them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very, they were an interesting group of people. There was probably half and half men and women. And I remember one was a philosophy major. Most of them were young. No, I don't think, I don't think anybody was over 25, 28 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this time you were like, what, 21?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably 21 or so, yeah. And the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been told what the project was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 47.74344102955906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were very, they were an interesting group of people. There was probably half and half men and women. And I remember one was a philosophy major. Most of them were young. No, I don't think, I don't think anybody was over 25, 28 at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And at this time you were like, what, 21?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was probably 21 or so, yeah. And the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you been told what the project was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, no. We weren't told anything. It was just that we were going there and whatever you qualified for. I mean, what did I qualify for? I was an English major and I wrote. So I figured it was maybe something along the lines of teaching, is what I assumed. But I wasn't told that. I mean, I didn't assume that I was going to be put into agricultural engineering or anything because I didn't have any qualifications. But I would have done anything. I would have been digging ditches if they wanted to do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And others in the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.91814872897543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was language training. There must have been area studies as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, it was more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they teach you about Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we learned about Ghana, yes. But, you know, also, there was also a lot of dope smoking. You know, I don't know if anybody wants to talk about this or not, but I mean, this guy Lee was the one, the guy I was sitting next to. And he went into the village and somehow he found the marijuana. And marijuana was very strong in Ghana. And he came back. You know, none of us, I don't think, would have dared to have gotten it, tried it, or any of that, because, you know, who wants to get kicked out of this place, you know? But Lee just went right for it. And he came back. And I remember, you know, he got almost everybody stoned and it's just like, whoa, all of a sudden. And that, you know, that was very mind blowing because it was like, oh, suddenly we're having a different kind of experience, you know? It's like, well, you know, we're walking around Ghana with our eyes open. We're in foreign country and learning, you know, and experiencing things in a very psychedelic way. And so that existed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, you were pretty comfortable that you were in, that you had sort of made it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.020165254417144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit, it was more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did they teach you about Ghana?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we learned about Ghana, yes. But, you know, also, there was also a lot of dope smoking. You know, I don't know if anybody wants to talk about this or not, but I mean, this guy Lee was the one, the guy I was sitting next to. And he went into the village and somehow he found the marijuana. And marijuana was very strong in Ghana. And he came back. You know, none of us, I don't think, would have dared to have gotten it, tried it, or any of that, because, you know, who wants to get kicked out of this place, you know? But Lee just went right for it. And he came back. And I remember, you know, he got almost everybody stoned and it's just like, whoa, all of a sudden. And that, you know, that was very mind blowing because it was like, oh, suddenly we're having a different kind of experience, you know? It's like, well, you know, we're walking around Ghana with our eyes open. We're in foreign country and learning, you know, and experiencing things in a very psychedelic way. And so that existed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, you were pretty comfortable that you were in, that you had sort of made it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn't know that because, you know, we did know that psychologist was there and he could tell us, you know, you don't fit, you know, I mean, anything could happen. And I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any people disappear?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.355739171574605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we learned about Ghana, yes. But, you know, also, there was also a lot of dope smoking. You know, I don't know if anybody wants to talk about this or not, but I mean, this guy Lee was the one, the guy I was sitting next to. And he went into the village and somehow he found the marijuana. And marijuana was very strong in Ghana. And he came back. You know, none of us, I don't think, would have dared to have gotten it, tried it, or any of that, because, you know, who wants to get kicked out of this place, you know? But Lee just went right for it. And he came back. And I remember, you know, he got almost everybody stoned and it's just like, whoa, all of a sudden. And that, you know, that was very mind blowing because it was like, oh, suddenly we're having a different kind of experience, you know? It's like, well, you know, we're walking around Ghana with our eyes open. We're in foreign country and learning, you know, and experiencing things in a very psychedelic way. And so that existed, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At this point, you were pretty comfortable that you were in, that you had sort of made it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we didn't know that because, you know, we did know that psychologist was there and he could tell us, you know, you don't fit, you know, I mean, anything could happen. And I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did any people disappear?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, one person dropped out. He didn't like it. And I remember, as a matter of fact, he might have been my roommate. I'm not sure. But I think there was one that, you know, cracked up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But that was known, it was a middle of the night disappearance."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.310530668456945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Anti-malarial, yes. And we had to have the gamma globulin shots, you know, all that stuff which was pretty annoying. I mean, it was what, it was up to your weight. So if you weighed 100 pounds, it was 5 cc's, 150 pounds, seven and a half cc's or whatever. And that was a long, a long shot. A lot of liquid went into you, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall if there were volunteers who had served in Ghana before you at training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, there were. I remember Charlotte MacPherson was one of our trainers, you know, and she had been there the year before. So she was one, she had been there one year, so she had one more year to go. So we had a few of those and, you know, we got to know them. And they also were judging us. I mean, everybody was judging you, but you didn't know what that meant. But you just knew that you were being looked at and watched and analyzed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there during the six weeks, was there any kind of screening or indication of where you were going to be assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, that we had no idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was still up in the air?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 29.432297924793392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we went to these to these things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many were in each?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were 35 of us total. So we would be about six in each, six or seven in each one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, actually in Mampong, I don't even remember who else was there besides myself. I don't remember ever meeting with anybody while I was there, so I think I might have been alone in that place. So maybe they divided us up into more areas, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did language instructors go out to the villages with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 17.468886871945692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody. The Peace Corps. I didn't get any money out of anybody else. And the Peace Corps, I think I was getting $70 a month, I think is what it came to. And it was the same amount of money that everybody got. And I remember going to the Peace Corps office every six months saying I wanted, I thought I should get more money, me and Mark, who was also, because we were in Accra. I said, you know, we can't afford, we can't go out. You know, there's not enough, we're not getting enough money to even take advantage of being where we are. And they agreed with that. So I think they may have given me 20 more bucks a month, you know, so I could at least go to a movie or go to a, you know, go out to eat or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you reconvene at the end of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.076540968828546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you reconvene at the end of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We came back to Winneba afterwards and I think we spent a couple of months, maybe a month there, maybe one more last month. So it wasn't like we went to an assignment right away. It was like we came back. Had more language training. And by now everybody was exchanging ideas and, you know, and all that stuff. And so now was getting a little exciting because we all were getting a sense of direction. I was going to stay in Accra, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went back you knew?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.751712187587273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you reconvene at the end of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We came back to Winneba afterwards and I think we spent a couple of months, maybe a month there, maybe one more last month. So it wasn't like we went to an assignment right away. It was like we came back. Had more language training. And by now everybody was exchanging ideas and, you know, and all that stuff. And so now was getting a little exciting because we all were getting a sense of direction. I was going to stay in Accra, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went back you knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. By the time I went back, I knew that my assignment was the city and there was only one other volunteer, Mark Brown, who lives out here now. I see him a lot and he's one of my best friends. But he also was put into a school in Accra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was happening with the rest of the group?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.390791319541414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. We came back to Winneba afterwards and I think we spent a couple of months, maybe a month there, maybe one more last month. So it wasn't like we went to an assignment right away. It was like we came back. Had more language training. And by now everybody was exchanging ideas and, you know, and all that stuff. And so now was getting a little exciting because we all were getting a sense of direction. I was going to stay in Accra, I mean."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you went back you knew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. By the time I went back, I knew that my assignment was the city and there was only one other volunteer, Mark Brown, who lives out here now. I see him a lot and he's one of my best friends. But he also was put into a school in Accra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was happening with the rest of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was getting ready to go off in the other direction. On-Offin or Kumasi or, you know, to teach. Most of them were all going to teach in different middle schools or secondary schools. Yes. Mark was at a secondary school. He was teaching like 10th grade math. I had the only unusual assignment that I remember. I mean, everything else was teaching, you know, in secondary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people math science teachers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.100879243934905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. By the time I went back, I knew that my assignment was the city and there was only one other volunteer, Mark Brown, who lives out here now. I see him a lot and he's one of my best friends. But he also was put into a school in Accra."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what was happening with the rest of the group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was getting ready to go off in the other direction. On-Offin or Kumasi or, you know, to teach. Most of them were all going to teach in different middle schools or secondary schools. Yes. Mark was at a secondary school. He was teaching like 10th grade math. I had the only unusual assignment that I remember. I mean, everything else was teaching, you know, in secondary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people math science teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, math and science. Yeah. And history a little bit. I mean, one was in history, I remember that. Yeah. And I guess some were English, but not too many now that I think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how things played out as [inaudible] final selection?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.00097693770545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody was getting ready to go off in the other direction. On-Offin or Kumasi or, you know, to teach. Most of them were all going to teach in different middle schools or secondary schools. Yes. Mark was at a secondary school. He was teaching like 10th grade math. I had the only unusual assignment that I remember. I mean, everything else was teaching, you know, in secondary schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people math science teachers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, math and science. Yeah. And history a little bit. I mean, one was in history, I remember that. Yeah. And I guess some were English, but not too many now that I think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how things played out as [inaudible] final selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were already selected. I never thought of it being final selection in my mind. I thought that once they said this group was going to Ghana to train, I think we were, we were selected. We may be deselected, that is, if we did something wrong. But I don't think anybody had, you know, I didn't think we were still trying out for it. I thought we, once they spent the money to send us there, we were there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In spite of the profiling and the psychologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.1121965974505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, math and science. Yeah. And history a little bit. I mean, one was in history, I remember that. Yeah. And I guess some were English, but not too many now that I think about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember how things played out as [inaudible] final selection?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think we were already selected. I never thought of it being final selection in my mind. I thought that once they said this group was going to Ghana to train, I think we were, we were selected. We may be deselected, that is, if we did something wrong. But I don't think anybody had, you know, I didn't think we were still trying out for it. I thought we, once they spent the money to send us there, we were there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In spite of the profiling and the psychologist?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Essentially you felt you were in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.387870373925686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they didn't tell me I had to play any role at all. That was a, that was what I loved about the Peace Corps. I mean, that they didn't say to me, you have to do this. They'd tell me I had to be tactful. I had to be careful. Yes. But then you're on your own and, yes, so the first thing I did was tell them where I stood as far as the war in Vietnam went and whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall the process to teach Ghanaians English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Ghanaian English is English English, you know, the British English more than the American. And that's what I was about to say. So I started teaching and I did all three courses, which is 3 hours worth of classes in about 40, 45 minutes. I'm finished, you know. And I said Shakespeare [talks very quickly]. And I talked fast because I'm from New York and I've never quite lost the New Yorkese in me. And there was blank looks, you know, I finished. I looked at my watch. Oh man, it's not even an hour. I got through it. I said, well, any questions? Nobody had any questions. I said, OK, I'll see you tomorrow. And I went into my office. I had an office they gave me. I sat there and I remember like my hands were shaking and I'm going, what the hell was that all about? I can't do this. I'm not qualified. I can't teach. I was, I had the most self-doubt that I've ever had in my life about me was at that time.\n\nAnd I went home. I had a driver that used to take me, the bus would pick me up, a small little minivan or something. So it would take me to my place. And by the way, I should talk about where I lived because it was pretty interesting. And back and forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's stick on the teaching for a minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you get any kind of syllabus?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 34.07315275623386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe 20, 25. Maybe 25 or 30 at the most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a conventional classroom?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. I remember it was a, yeah, it was kind of a conventional classroom. And there's only two classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] writing instruments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, they would. Well, there were books that you'd tell them to bring or write or loose-leaf books or whatever that would be. And I remember, oh, here's something else I remember very quickly. The first day of class, I said to them, this is how, this is what I believe. I don't believe in grades. I said, I think we're all, I think everybody here is an adult. I said, you know, you've achieved something to get to this school. So I would think that maybe we could come to some kind of agreement where you can grade yourself. You can tell me what you believe you deserve. And we can discuss it. So other that, that's it. They went running to the director after this class complaining because they wanted grades.\n\nAnd they were so used to the English system of grades that this concept that you could grade yourself was like, whoa, where am I coming from? And I got called in right away. The director said, you told them that they're going to grade themselves? I said, well, I said, look, these people have got children. You know, it's not like they're. They said, no, no, no, no. You have to grade them. I said, OK, you know. I said, fine. I said, if that's what you want, I'll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the structure was? It was you and?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.85905861803762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. I remember it was a, yeah, it was kind of a conventional classroom. And there's only two classrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] writing instruments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, they would. Well, there were books that you'd tell them to bring or write or loose-leaf books or whatever that would be. And I remember, oh, here's something else I remember very quickly. The first day of class, I said to them, this is how, this is what I believe. I don't believe in grades. I said, I think we're all, I think everybody here is an adult. I said, you know, you've achieved something to get to this school. So I would think that maybe we could come to some kind of agreement where you can grade yourself. You can tell me what you believe you deserve. And we can discuss it. So other that, that's it. They went running to the director after this class complaining because they wanted grades.\n\nAnd they were so used to the English system of grades that this concept that you could grade yourself was like, whoa, where am I coming from? And I got called in right away. The director said, you told them that they're going to grade themselves? I said, well, I said, look, these people have got children. You know, it's not like they're. They said, no, no, no, no. You have to grade them. I said, OK, you know. I said, fine. I said, if that's what you want, I'll do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now the structure was? It was you and?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A director, the head, yeah, the director of the program, who was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there other Ghanaians who were teachers as well?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.91057838350536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, no. We had to bring our own stuff. Yeah. I mean, I did bring a lot of reading to do. And I, you know, and I remember I used to read the international Newsweek or Time. Newsweek I think it was. And the, you know, I would get that and look forward to that kind of stuff, you know. And, you know, existed a lot by letters, because there was no internet, there was no computers. I had a typewriter and I wrote every day. I wrote two books while I was in Ghana. One was called Turquoise and the other was called Not with a Bang. And so, you know, so I was always writing and I loved it. So, you know, my work, I didn't work that much at the school. My hours was such that, you know, maybe I'd work. I had those three classes, so maybe it would be an hour a class. And sometimes I'd teach 2 hours in a day and then, so maybe about 2 hours a day.\n\nSo they'd come and pick me up at 9:00 in the morning. I'd teach 10:00 to 11:00, I'd have office hours for a half an hour, an hour. Anybody wanted to see me. And then I was free to go home. I would grade papers at home as much as I could at the school. So I was not at the school that much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did your students live?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All over. I had, one of those."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there dorms?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No dorms, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody stayed at their own house?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.284664670994268, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No dorms, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everybody stayed at their own house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Nobody lived on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any faculty room that could be a meeting site?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 30.316294078882517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Nobody lived on campus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any faculty room that could be a meeting site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we had our offices. I had an office that I shared with this one guy. And there was. I remember, I just remember writing once about, you know, we had a ceremony when the director was leaving. We had the ceremony and it was so insane because everybody wanted this director out. He was terrible. And he went to the Ministry of Information and but, you know, they made such a big deal out of it, you know, and it was, it was so. And then one of the teachers, I remember seeing him talking to a tree once. And I just walked over to him. Because he had been in the, arrested under Nkrumah and he had been in jail and been beaten and tortured and all that stuff. And now he's out and he's teaching a course at the school. But his mind was a little bit warped, you know, and you sort of saw that.\n\nI mean, I was pretty close to my students. One of the, one of my students I ended up having an affair with, but not while she was a student. You know, after she had graduated. I was close with her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do on weekends?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.51177600959261, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was, not in the very, very beginning I wasn't other than the letters to. It took me a little while to adjust to my routine. I would say the first six months it was an extremely lonely time. I think the period of adjustment was about a half a year. I had a girlfriend that, you know, that I had left, you know, and when I came here and all that and I missed her and I missed. You know, I mean, it was just that whole adjustment. And, you know, like just, you know, coming into a teaching situation that I didn't understand how to teach and, you know, and volunteers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you didn't have a life in the schools."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, like a boarding school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. Everybody was on their own and all that stuff. So in the, it took me a while and I felt very, very alone, even though I was in the city, you know, in the city. But I felt also constrained in that city because I couldn't afford to do anything, you know, to get around, you know. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live close to the Peace Corps office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.34641778843623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, like a boarding school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. Everybody was on their own and all that stuff. So in the, it took me a while and I felt very, very alone, even though I was in the city, you know, in the city. But I felt also constrained in that city because I couldn't afford to do anything, you know, to get around, you know. But anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you live close to the Peace Corps office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Within walking distance. But then again, almost anything to me. I didn't walk to the beach until I was robbed at the end, but I, the Peace Corps office was a good distance. Like it was near Ferisco, and there was a place called Talal, which was a Lebanese restaurant I remember. I used to eat at Talal and the Peace Corps office was near there. So yeah, so it would be about a 20 minute walk to the Peace Corps office, so that wasn't so bad. And a little further down, there was a department store that I very rarely went to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But during, say, the first six months, did you have much contact with the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.83145826082784, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, they encouraged it. Peace Corps always, they gave you $9 a day to travel, the per diem rate if you travel. And I arranged, because I was in Accra, I arranged for the, uh, a trip to East Africa."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I arranged with an airlines and I got a very good rate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the end of the first year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and so I had everybody, all the volunteers that I was in touch with, plus whoever else was in the volunteers. And I, you know, whatever price it was, a couple hundred bucks maybe it was, you know, but I said, you know, so I had to. I had to contact everybody in the Peace Corps, which I did through the Peace Corps office. Those are the kinds of things I would do at the Peace Corps office. And I'd say, if you all want to go, it's going to go. We're going to go to Ethiopia and Kenya and Tanzania, and then we'll fly into Ethiopia for X amount of time. Then we'll go to Kenya for X amount of time and then we'll, you know, everybody's on their own once we arrive and then we'll meet back and do it. And I think I filled the plane. I think I had over a hundred people, 120 people, that came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[inaudible] picked up people from Nigeria? How did that work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.6515933112421, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going into the second year and talk about what you're going to do differently or any goals for yourself?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I don't think I was setting so much goals as I was more comfortable. I understood. You know, I spent the third year there as well. So I did spend three years in Ghana. I re-upped one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your teaching schedule was the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always the same. It was always basically three courses. So I was never, it was never stressful. I was able to handle it and do my own writing. I was just, I was fascinated that I was able to, you know, I mean, I liked, I was becoming a writer so to speak. You know, I had plenty of time to do that. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the time that would emerge, you would do your teaching and then head back to your house."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.835103679157886, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I don't think I was setting so much goals as I was more comfortable. I understood. You know, I spent the third year there as well. So I did spend three years in Ghana. I re-upped one year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And your teaching schedule was the same?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always the same. It was always basically three courses. So I was never, it was never stressful. I was able to handle it and do my own writing. I was just, I was fascinated that I was able to, you know, I mean, I liked, I was becoming a writer so to speak. You know, I had plenty of time to do that. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the time that would emerge, you would do your teaching and then head back to your house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you spend your time there writing and I assume doing some preparation for class."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.927892976842095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was always the same. It was always basically three courses. So I was never, it was never stressful. I was able to handle it and do my own writing. I was just, I was fascinated that I was able to, you know, I mean, I liked, I was becoming a writer so to speak. You know, I had plenty of time to do that. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the time that would emerge, you would do your teaching and then head back to your house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you spend your time there writing and I assume doing some preparation for class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. I would always prepare for class. I'd always, you know, I'd do that right away. I actually had read. I remember reading that William Faulkner wrote As I Lay Dying, which was his own favorite book, in six weeks. So I gave that as a challenge to myself once. So I said, I wonder if I could write a novel. I wonder how much I could write in six weeks. So I kept a little chart, you know. And so every day for six weeks I wrote. And I remember one day I wrote 14 pages. Oh, that was like, it was almost like an orgasm, you know? But in the end I wrote, um, uh, I wrote a book that was, uh, 120,000 words. You know, it was twice the size of As I Lay Dying and probably 100th of what quality was. But nonetheless, you know, it was an experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All in six weeks?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.637301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, '70 and '71 and, well, actually, it was still in '70. It was, this was still in '70. Because what happened was in my mind, I figured I would probably end up staying. You know, when my time in Ghana was up, I would travel around and then I'd end up, would go live in Canada. I would never come back to the States if it was going to come down to that. It never did. And what happened was once the, I never heard from the draft board again and the lottery continued on or whatever, then I re- upped for the next year. And that was because I had, I really wanted to give it a lot of self-reflection. Did I join the Peace Corps just to get out of the Army or did I join the Peace Corps because I wanted to do whatever good I could or get the experience, etc.? I always believe that we got more out of it than we gave in a sense."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But in the third year that was still kind of an issue?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. No, I remember it was cleaned up because that was the reason I stayed the third year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The third year was my year, you know, it was my, it was like I had beat, the Army was over. It was and it was no longer a question of do I have to do that now? It was a decision of, I want to be here another year. I like this, I like my situation. I like the people. I had, I was writing something that I could continue to rewrite and edit and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall going into the Peace Corps office and saying I would like to do a third year and would they put any barriers in your way?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 28.48589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it wasn't. No, I remember it was cleaned up because that was the reason I stayed the third year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The third year was my year, you know, it was my, it was like I had beat, the Army was over. It was and it was no longer a question of do I have to do that now? It was a decision of, I want to be here another year. I like this, I like my situation. I like the people. I had, I was writing something that I could continue to rewrite and edit and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall going into the Peace Corps office and saying I would like to do a third year and would they put any barriers in your way?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, there was never any barriers at all. I think they were happy. Because I remember they didn't have a replacement for me so easily, and then they did the next year. When I left, Mary O'Neil was a, she was a grandmother and she had written children's books. And I think I had a few of her books, Halibut, Hailstones and Halibut Bones is one of them. Nice. And I only met her at the very end. You know, she came in when I was leaving, and I think I spent a day or two giving a, you know, talking to her."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did Peace Corps expect you to take home leave before you did your third year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00185:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 14.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For some reason when you get a letter, it was a legal thing that I had to be in the States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a telegram saying. It was signing Secretary of State Dean Rusk. You have to be in court on such and such a date in June. That was it. You know, this is why I brought that to the Peace Corps. I said, look at this. You know, I said, so they sent me back. So that's how that happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All international [inaudible]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Right. I'm sure Dean Rusk himself did not have to, did not look at that or read that, you know. But yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did the third year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00280:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 48.57, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you. Jennifer, you have something else that you had?\n\nNo, just let us know when you come down to Houston. I’d like to sit in on a class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I’d be delighted thanks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much for spending your morning with us. We really appreciate it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re welcome. Delighted you could come do this. I feel quite honored to be part of this, because like I tell people, my experience with NASA, I was just a dandelion in the flower bed of life. Given the short time I was there. It was really a remarkable experience.\\n\\n Any success that I might have had really was because of the people who were my colleagues and I worked with. We had great people there when I got there. At the same time there was the burden of the culture that some people just couldn’t shake.\\n\\n After some people left, I came in with what I think was a really remarkable team. Bob [D.] Cabana became my Deputy, and he had so much to do with the positive aspect of the turnaround of the attitudes there. Bob Cabana is just one of my favorite people. He’s just a super super guy. He was such a wonderful Deputy. Wonderful fellow to have there. Randy [K.] Gish became my number three and ran that thing. I’d been impressed with him when he was running contracts down there when I was a contractor. When I had the opportunity to bring him up there, he just did a remarkable job. Those are two of my favorite guys, and I just think they had so much to do with any improvement in attitude, personnel, efficiency, the way we did things, morale. Really Cabana and Gish had a lot to do with that.\\n\\n One thing that we didn’t talk about was Beak’s Bash."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s right, we didn’t talk about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00313:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 9.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We used frozen food before that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did. Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in Apollo. That was tried in Apollo. In fact, if you see the movie Apollo 13, Jim Lovell and whoever’s playing him is knocking a hot dog that’s frozen, showing how hard it is, and he can’t even eat the thing, it was so hard. But there were breads, irradiated breads, that are still around.\\n\\n Helen [W.] Lane, who runs your program down there, can show you all that stuff. She’s got samples of all kinds of things, I’m sure. She just published a recent paper in Nutrition Today, which is quite good, about long-range missions; some of the summary of the things we’ve talked about, some of the new packaging. You may want to take a look at that. She has a menu, a three-day menu—a six-day menu. It talks about the Shuttle and the foods going out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’ll definitely take a look. Actually, I’m working with Helen right now on a project, so I’ll have to mention that to her."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. Yes, give her my regards."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Did you both work together?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.24984894943959, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for one year, and I covered the early Gemini missions. I believe it was Gemini 3, 4, and 5. It was the beginning."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people were on the island with you at that ground station?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With Bendix, when I first got there, the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] ran the island. They did the power, the water, had a dispensary, but they pulled out. Bendix took over the whole thing, and I would say we had about 70 or 80 people there, but on the tracking station itself was about 10 people. You need all the other people because you had to make your own water, you had to make your own electricity, chow hall, living quarters. It took seven times as many people to sustain the few that were at the tracking stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said the living conditions were sort of primitive. Can you describe how they worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually a family assignment for the FAA, so they had housing, they had regular houses on the lagoon. It was beachfront property, but I mean it was primitive in the sense that we were isolated. We had an airplane that came once every two weeks that brought mail, brought food, brought people, and took people off. The rest of the time, you were pretty much on your own. All the water had to be made, all the electricity had to be generated, to sustain the operation there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your specific duties there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.277609943821766, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With Bendix, when I first got there, the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] ran the island. They did the power, the water, had a dispensary, but they pulled out. Bendix took over the whole thing, and I would say we had about 70 or 80 people there, but on the tracking station itself was about 10 people. You need all the other people because you had to make your own water, you had to make your own electricity, chow hall, living quarters. It took seven times as many people to sustain the few that were at the tracking stations."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said the living conditions were sort of primitive. Can you describe how they worked?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually a family assignment for the FAA, so they had housing, they had regular houses on the lagoon. It was beachfront property, but I mean it was primitive in the sense that we were isolated. We had an airplane that came once every two weeks that brought mail, brought food, brought people, and took people off. The rest of the time, you were pretty much on your own. All the water had to be made, all the electricity had to be generated, to sustain the operation there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your specific duties there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a kind of interesting thing for me because when I was in the Air Force, I worked on aircraft navigation systems, and since the FAA was pulling out, they wanted NASA to sustain the navigation systems that they had on the island. Also, at the tracking station, I worked as a telemetry engineer. I had a dual job there, and as a result of that, I had my own pickup truck because I had to be on-call 24 hours a day. Besides the tracking station, I had to take care of the navigational aids and the calibration that went along with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were pretty young at that point, I assume."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.419566604246405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was actually a family assignment for the FAA, so they had housing, they had regular houses on the lagoon. It was beachfront property, but I mean it was primitive in the sense that we were isolated. We had an airplane that came once every two weeks that brought mail, brought food, brought people, and took people off. The rest of the time, you were pretty much on your own. All the water had to be made, all the electricity had to be generated, to sustain the operation there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your specific duties there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a kind of interesting thing for me because when I was in the Air Force, I worked on aircraft navigation systems, and since the FAA was pulling out, they wanted NASA to sustain the navigation systems that they had on the island. Also, at the tracking station, I worked as a telemetry engineer. I had a dual job there, and as a result of that, I had my own pickup truck because I had to be on-call 24 hours a day. Besides the tracking station, I had to take care of the navigational aids and the calibration that went along with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were pretty young at that point, I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 23."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people there working also young?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.799518449162672, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a kind of interesting thing for me because when I was in the Air Force, I worked on aircraft navigation systems, and since the FAA was pulling out, they wanted NASA to sustain the navigation systems that they had on the island. Also, at the tracking station, I worked as a telemetry engineer. I had a dual job there, and as a result of that, I had my own pickup truck because I had to be on-call 24 hours a day. Besides the tracking station, I had to take care of the navigational aids and the calibration that went along with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were pretty young at that point, I assume."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 23."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people there working also young?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people at the tracking station were similar to myself, but the sustainment people, the power, the cooks, the mechanics, were primarily from Hawaii, that had families up in Hawaii, and they were called range rats. They worked on the range there and they basically sent the money to their families in Hawaii, and then took the time at every opportunity to go up there. They pretty much lived on the range."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this also voice communications and all types of telemetry that you were tracking?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.99946494351408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was 23."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were most of the people there working also young?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people at the tracking station were similar to myself, but the sustainment people, the power, the cooks, the mechanics, were primarily from Hawaii, that had families up in Hawaii, and they were called range rats. They worked on the range there and they basically sent the money to their families in Hawaii, and then took the time at every opportunity to go up there. They pretty much lived on the range."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this also voice communications and all types of telemetry that you were tracking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, like I said, it was relatively primitive. We had voice communications, where we would relay Houston’s [Texas, Johnson Space Center, JSC] voice through the station up to the capsule, and the voice back to Houston. The telemetry was all recorded on tapes, on magnetic tapes, and sent back after the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just flown back to Houston?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.443849937237868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Most of the people at the tracking station were similar to myself, but the sustainment people, the power, the cooks, the mechanics, were primarily from Hawaii, that had families up in Hawaii, and they were called range rats. They worked on the range there and they basically sent the money to their families in Hawaii, and then took the time at every opportunity to go up there. They pretty much lived on the range."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this also voice communications and all types of telemetry that you were tracking?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, like I said, it was relatively primitive. We had voice communications, where we would relay Houston’s [Texas, Johnson Space Center, JSC] voice through the station up to the capsule, and the voice back to Houston. The telemetry was all recorded on tapes, on magnetic tapes, and sent back after the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just flown back to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were limited times, obviously, because each tracking station only had a certain amount of time for each mission."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 27.15983326359763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "At that point, like I said, it was relatively primitive. We had voice communications, where we would relay Houston’s [Texas, Johnson Space Center, JSC] voice through the station up to the capsule, and the voice back to Houston. The telemetry was all recorded on tapes, on magnetic tapes, and sent back after the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just flown back to Houston?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were limited times, obviously, because each tracking station only had a certain amount of time for each mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the tracking station, if you look at a map, it’s usually drawn as a circle around the geographical location. That circle designates the area that you can cover for a spacecraft like Gemini, depending on the altitude. The circle will get bigger as you go higher and smaller as you go lower. The orbit, sometimes it hits just a part of the circle, sometimes it goes through the middle, and sometimes it just hits the other edges. On our passes, there tend to be three passes, so we would get three passes in a row and then we’d have a break until the next series of three passes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after that year?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.3998147373307, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There were limited times, obviously, because each tracking station only had a certain amount of time for each mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the tracking station, if you look at a map, it’s usually drawn as a circle around the geographical location. That circle designates the area that you can cover for a spacecraft like Gemini, depending on the altitude. The circle will get bigger as you go higher and smaller as you go lower. The orbit, sometimes it hits just a part of the circle, sometimes it goes through the middle, and sometimes it just hits the other edges. On our passes, there tend to be three passes, so we would get three passes in a row and then we’d have a break until the next series of three passes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after that year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went from there to [Tananarive] Madagascar, which was actually, at that time, the Madagascar station was what was known as a STADAN [Spacecraft Tracking and Data Acquisition Network] site. Kanton was a manned flight, manned spaceflight. The STADAN was a scientific satellite, but because of its location, we had a couple of trailers there that were used for manned spaceflight, and that’s the reason I went over there. I supported the rest of the Gemini Program in Madagascar, and then the beginning of the Apollo Program, which was the unmanned portion of it. We sent up the capsule and re-entered it unmanned to test the heat shield. It just happened to happen over Madagascar because they climbed over the Indian Ocean and then re-entered very fast there. We got some of the very early Apollo support there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Madagascar?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.777571930367444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the tracking station, if you look at a map, it’s usually drawn as a circle around the geographical location. That circle designates the area that you can cover for a spacecraft like Gemini, depending on the altitude. The circle will get bigger as you go higher and smaller as you go lower. The orbit, sometimes it hits just a part of the circle, sometimes it goes through the middle, and sometimes it just hits the other edges. On our passes, there tend to be three passes, so we would get three passes in a row and then we’d have a break until the next series of three passes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do after that year?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went from there to [Tananarive] Madagascar, which was actually, at that time, the Madagascar station was what was known as a STADAN [Spacecraft Tracking and Data Acquisition Network] site. Kanton was a manned flight, manned spaceflight. The STADAN was a scientific satellite, but because of its location, we had a couple of trailers there that were used for manned spaceflight, and that’s the reason I went over there. I supported the rest of the Gemini Program in Madagascar, and then the beginning of the Apollo Program, which was the unmanned portion of it. We sent up the capsule and re-entered it unmanned to test the heat shield. It just happened to happen over Madagascar because they climbed over the Indian Ocean and then re-entered very fast there. We got some of the very early Apollo support there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Madagascar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madagascar was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was all through the end of Gemini and the first parts of Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.308413255963824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went from there to [Tananarive] Madagascar, which was actually, at that time, the Madagascar station was what was known as a STADAN [Spacecraft Tracking and Data Acquisition Network] site. Kanton was a manned flight, manned spaceflight. The STADAN was a scientific satellite, but because of its location, we had a couple of trailers there that were used for manned spaceflight, and that’s the reason I went over there. I supported the rest of the Gemini Program in Madagascar, and then the beginning of the Apollo Program, which was the unmanned portion of it. We sent up the capsule and re-entered it unmanned to test the heat shield. It just happened to happen over Madagascar because they climbed over the Indian Ocean and then re-entered very fast there. We got some of the very early Apollo support there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you in Madagascar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madagascar was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was all through the end of Gemini and the first parts of Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end of Gemini and the start of Apollo, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go from there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 24.787125839959803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Madagascar was two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was all through the end of Gemini and the first parts of Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end of Gemini and the start of Apollo, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From there, I came back to Maryland, here, and went on assignment on the Apollo aircraft that were used for testing all the stations for Apollo. The Apollo aircraft were Lockheed Constellations, four-engine propeller planes that had all the equipment that resembled the Apollo spacecraft. Some of the actual Apollo units were on the aircraft, but some of it was test equipment associated with that to make the system. To a station, we looked like the Apollo spacecraft, electronically, so the signals that were sent down were the same as we’d see from the Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The plane would go up and fly over the stations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.76347315551089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was the end of Gemini and the start of Apollo, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go from there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "From there, I came back to Maryland, here, and went on assignment on the Apollo aircraft that were used for testing all the stations for Apollo. The Apollo aircraft were Lockheed Constellations, four-engine propeller planes that had all the equipment that resembled the Apollo spacecraft. Some of the actual Apollo units were on the aircraft, but some of it was test equipment associated with that to make the system. To a station, we looked like the Apollo spacecraft, electronically, so the signals that were sent down were the same as we’d see from the Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The plane would go up and fly over the stations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d fly over the stations, we’d run simulated passes, so to them, again, it would look like there was a spacecraft going across. Basically, it was for training, and to certify the stations that they were ready for support. As part of that certification, we also gave them problems, where they were expecting a certain mode or certain configuration and we would set up something different and see how long it would take them to figure out that the Apollo spacecraft was not doing this. We’d delay the acquisition or break the signal and see how the station reacted. It was a proficiency training prior to every mission because at that time, there weren’t as many spacecraft as we have now.\\n\\n Now, you don’t need to learn how to track a satellite because there are a lot of satellites, but at that time, that was pretty much very specialized and one-of-a-kind. We did not only the stations, but we also did the Apollo ships—there were ships that were used during the Apollo Program. We would test them and also tested the ARIA [Advanced Range Instrumentation Aircraft], which were big aircraft that were used for tracking the Apollo. It was both land stations, ships, and airplanes, and consequently, they took me around the world because we had stations at that time in Australia, in Hawaii, Bermuda, Guam, Madrid, Canary Islands, Mexico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You flew on the airplane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.54248718177077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was a crew member on the aircraft, yes. Along with us when we went on these trips, we took a NASA team of engineers that would go to the station and observe. They were observers, so as we put the station through their paces, they would observe how well they do and what improvements or how ready they were for the next mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was quite a unique opportunity, I would think."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was great, it was exciting, and for Apollo 11, we always got scripts from Houston because we did the voice as well. One of the people was acting as an astronaut and was actually reading scripts, the conversation that they could expect. It was pretty close on the landing. We didn’t have “One small step for mankind,” but everything else was pretty close. Those were interesting times, and it was really being a part of a team that went to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and doing things, like you said, the training to track these things that we’d never tracked before. Were there any other anecdotes during that time period, during that training period, that you can remember? Any challenges or unusual things that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they took the rover to the Moon, the little vehicle, on the trip that we were going to the Pacific, we stopped in Houston and picked up a unit that was the camera. It was actually the LCRU [Lunar Communications Relay Unit], as it was called, LCRU unit that we mounted in the aircraft, and I think we had a JSC person with us as well to work it. They would remotely command the camera, and we had it mounted where the consoles were. So, you’re sitting there and out of the corner of your eye, you see the camera coming around like this, and then the lens would go out and the lens would go back in, and they were doing that from Houston. They were actually remotely commanding, just like they did on the Moon with the camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It allowed them to also practice what they were going to be doing."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.0472079797453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was great, it was exciting, and for Apollo 11, we always got scripts from Houston because we did the voice as well. One of the people was acting as an astronaut and was actually reading scripts, the conversation that they could expect. It was pretty close on the landing. We didn’t have “One small step for mankind,” but everything else was pretty close. Those were interesting times, and it was really being a part of a team that went to the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, and doing things, like you said, the training to track these things that we’d never tracked before. Were there any other anecdotes during that time period, during that training period, that you can remember? Any challenges or unusual things that happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they took the rover to the Moon, the little vehicle, on the trip that we were going to the Pacific, we stopped in Houston and picked up a unit that was the camera. It was actually the LCRU [Lunar Communications Relay Unit], as it was called, LCRU unit that we mounted in the aircraft, and I think we had a JSC person with us as well to work it. They would remotely command the camera, and we had it mounted where the consoles were. So, you’re sitting there and out of the corner of your eye, you see the camera coming around like this, and then the lens would go out and the lens would go back in, and they were doing that from Houston. They were actually remotely commanding, just like they did on the Moon with the camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It allowed them to also practice what they were going to be doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so these were like integrated sims [simulations], then, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. It sounds like a part of training that not a lot of people have heard about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.496897755272553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When they took the rover to the Moon, the little vehicle, on the trip that we were going to the Pacific, we stopped in Houston and picked up a unit that was the camera. It was actually the LCRU [Lunar Communications Relay Unit], as it was called, LCRU unit that we mounted in the aircraft, and I think we had a JSC person with us as well to work it. They would remotely command the camera, and we had it mounted where the consoles were. So, you’re sitting there and out of the corner of your eye, you see the camera coming around like this, and then the lens would go out and the lens would go back in, and they were doing that from Houston. They were actually remotely commanding, just like they did on the Moon with the camera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It allowed them to also practice what they were going to be doing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so these were like integrated sims [simulations], then, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. It sounds like a part of training that not a lot of people have heard about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The challenges were the stations were pretty stable with manpower, but the ships, because they would go out and then when they would come back in, there would be people that would get off the ship, and they’d be replaced by new people. That was always more of a challenge to train them because you were starting with a little bit of a new crew. Then, the ARAI aircraft, which were manned by the Air Force, this was during the Vietnam War and they rotated the people off those airplanes to Vietnam, and they replaced them. With them, it was always a challenge to get the crews trained because you were starting with people that had never done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your group was responsible for that training also?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.885441950302834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, so these were like integrated sims [simulations], then, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. It sounds like a part of training that not a lot of people have heard about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The challenges were the stations were pretty stable with manpower, but the ships, because they would go out and then when they would come back in, there would be people that would get off the ship, and they’d be replaced by new people. That was always more of a challenge to train them because you were starting with a little bit of a new crew. Then, the ARAI aircraft, which were manned by the Air Force, this was during the Vietnam War and they rotated the people off those airplanes to Vietnam, and they replaced them. With them, it was always a challenge to get the crews trained because you were starting with people that had never done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your group was responsible for that training also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were responsible for providing the training for them. The first day was always very rough, the second day got better, and the third day, it improved. Then, they were ready, and then after the next mission, we started all over again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, started with a new crew. Did the training last about the same length that the mission was planned for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.428268833669815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The challenges were the stations were pretty stable with manpower, but the ships, because they would go out and then when they would come back in, there would be people that would get off the ship, and they’d be replaced by new people. That was always more of a challenge to train them because you were starting with a little bit of a new crew. Then, the ARAI aircraft, which were manned by the Air Force, this was during the Vietnam War and they rotated the people off those airplanes to Vietnam, and they replaced them. With them, it was always a challenge to get the crews trained because you were starting with people that had never done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your group was responsible for that training also?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were responsible for providing the training for them. The first day was always very rough, the second day got better, and the third day, it improved. Then, they were ready, and then after the next mission, we started all over again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, started with a new crew. Did the training last about the same length that the mission was planned for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We normally did a week at a location, so the first day was basically interface checks. We’d actually fly circles, so they would have us continually, and then we would get into the passes. No, it was not the length of the mission, but it would put them through all the phases. Whatever phase they would be supporting, we would concentrate on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes, I imagine you would have to do it more than once, especially with those new groups coming through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 28.253632037410906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were responsible for providing the training for them. The first day was always very rough, the second day got better, and the third day, it improved. Then, they were ready, and then after the next mission, we started all over again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, started with a new crew. Did the training last about the same length that the mission was planned for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We normally did a week at a location, so the first day was basically interface checks. We’d actually fly circles, so they would have us continually, and then we would get into the passes. No, it was not the length of the mission, but it would put them through all the phases. Whatever phase they would be supporting, we would concentrate on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes, I imagine you would have to do it more than once, especially with those new groups coming through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that all the way through Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.837368930456563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We normally did a week at a location, so the first day was basically interface checks. We’d actually fly circles, so they would have us continually, and then we would get into the passes. No, it was not the length of the mission, but it would put them through all the phases. Whatever phase they would be supporting, we would concentrate on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes, I imagine you would have to do it more than once, especially with those new groups coming through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that all the way through Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did that all the way through Apollo, and then after the Apollo, the aircraft were decommissioned and I moved on into working at Goddard here. For missions, we had what we called a Network Support Team. There was a team back here that helped the stations getting ready for missions and during the missions, actual technical assistance there. After that, we went through ASTP, the Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] mission, and then we got into Skylab. I was involved with that here at Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about just some of those duties that you were doing during ASTP and Skylab in a little more detail about what you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.37485436717396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did that all the way through Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did that all the way through Apollo, and then after the Apollo, the aircraft were decommissioned and I moved on into working at Goddard here. For missions, we had what we called a Network Support Team. There was a team back here that helped the stations getting ready for missions and during the missions, actual technical assistance there. After that, we went through ASTP, the Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] mission, and then we got into Skylab. I was involved with that here at Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about just some of those duties that you were doing during ASTP and Skylab in a little more detail about what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During ASTP, then, as I said, the Network Support Team was based at the Network Control Center at Goddard, and we would interface with the stations. We would set them up for testing, we would monitor their performance, and then we would assist them in technical problems, so each mission had its own timeline and we would go through simulations and countdowns and the whole gamut of things that you put a station through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any interaction, with ASTP, with the Russian side as far as the network support?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.08317151908218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did that all the way through Apollo, and then after the Apollo, the aircraft were decommissioned and I moved on into working at Goddard here. For missions, we had what we called a Network Support Team. There was a team back here that helped the stations getting ready for missions and during the missions, actual technical assistance there. After that, we went through ASTP, the Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project] mission, and then we got into Skylab. I was involved with that here at Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk about just some of those duties that you were doing during ASTP and Skylab in a little more detail about what you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During ASTP, then, as I said, the Network Support Team was based at the Network Control Center at Goddard, and we would interface with the stations. We would set them up for testing, we would monitor their performance, and then we would assist them in technical problems, so each mission had its own timeline and we would go through simulations and countdowns and the whole gamut of things that you put a station through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any interaction, with ASTP, with the Russian side as far as the network support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not have it, but we monitored, during the mission, the real-time voice. We would hear the Russians as well as our crew, but no, we did not deal with them. That was, I think, done all through Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe in 1981, you became manager of the Test and Integration Group, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 30.0924127989802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "During ASTP, then, as I said, the Network Support Team was based at the Network Control Center at Goddard, and we would interface with the stations. We would set them up for testing, we would monitor their performance, and then we would assist them in technical problems, so each mission had its own timeline and we would go through simulations and countdowns and the whole gamut of things that you put a station through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any interaction, with ASTP, with the Russian side as far as the network support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not have it, but we monitored, during the mission, the real-time voice. We would hear the Russians as well as our crew, but no, we did not deal with them. That was, I think, done all through Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe in 1981, you became manager of the Test and Integration Group, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Of course, Shuttle coming in at that point."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.769347554422442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we did not have it, but we monitored, during the mission, the real-time voice. We would hear the Russians as well as our crew, but no, we did not deal with them. That was, I think, done all through Houston."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe in 1981, you became manager of the Test and Integration Group, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Of course, Shuttle coming in at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Test and Integration Group consisted of the Compatibility Test Van, which were actually vans, big trailer trucks, that we would send to the manufacturers of spacecraft and test the satellites while they were in the factory, before they were launched, to ensure that they were compatible with the support that we were going to be providing, either through the ground stations or through TDRSS [Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System]. That was very interesting. It’s a very technical job because essentially, you replicate the station that the spacecraft’s going to see and ensure that the signals are all compatible and that there are no problems that we would experience once it was launched.\\n\\n The other part of it was called the SOSC, Spacecraft Operations and Simulations Center, and we used that to actually field teams that went around and did sort of similar things I did on the airplanes but did it now with a computer at the station itself. It wasn’t as dynamic, but it still provided the interaction that they would be seeing. That was the Network Testing, was made up of those two entities there, the compatibility testing and the SOSC, the Simulation Operations Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned TDRSS also."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.29927506046938, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Of course, Shuttle coming in at that point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Test and Integration Group consisted of the Compatibility Test Van, which were actually vans, big trailer trucks, that we would send to the manufacturers of spacecraft and test the satellites while they were in the factory, before they were launched, to ensure that they were compatible with the support that we were going to be providing, either through the ground stations or through TDRSS [Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System]. That was very interesting. It’s a very technical job because essentially, you replicate the station that the spacecraft’s going to see and ensure that the signals are all compatible and that there are no problems that we would experience once it was launched.\\n\\n The other part of it was called the SOSC, Spacecraft Operations and Simulations Center, and we used that to actually field teams that went around and did sort of similar things I did on the airplanes but did it now with a computer at the station itself. It wasn’t as dynamic, but it still provided the interaction that they would be seeing. That was the Network Testing, was made up of those two entities there, the compatibility testing and the SOSC, the Simulation Operations Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned TDRSS also."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, I got involved in TDRSS, in the very beginning of TDRSS. The first time I went out to White Sands [New Mexico] there, the facility was still under construction and the concept of the TDRSS, the initial concept of the TDRSS was it was going to be a commercial service and NASA was going to get the signals that they paid for, but the satellites were going to be also used for commercial support. There was a part of White Sands that was called NASA Ground Terminal, NGT, that would receive the signals from the other side, which was the commercial side, and then take those signals and distribute them within the NASA environment there. I was involved in the early testing, or the implementation of NASA Ground Terminal, and then the early testing of that and the early support of TDRSS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which finally launched in ’83, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.529969210456024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, I got involved in TDRSS, in the very beginning of TDRSS. The first time I went out to White Sands [New Mexico] there, the facility was still under construction and the concept of the TDRSS, the initial concept of the TDRSS was it was going to be a commercial service and NASA was going to get the signals that they paid for, but the satellites were going to be also used for commercial support. There was a part of White Sands that was called NASA Ground Terminal, NGT, that would receive the signals from the other side, which was the commercial side, and then take those signals and distribute them within the NASA environment there. I was involved in the early testing, or the implementation of NASA Ground Terminal, and then the early testing of that and the early support of TDRSS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which finally launched in ’83, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did, yes. That satellite had a bad ride. The rocket that was used to propel it into the geostationary orbit had a problem and it did not get into the right orbit. It took about six months, I believe, from what I remember, to coach it into the synchronous orbit. They were using the little thrusters on the spacecraft, which were not designed to do that, and so the SOSC was involved with monitoring that data in real time and the temperatures on the thrusters so that over time, the satellite was put in orbit. Then, it lasted forever. It was just, I think, last year that it was decommissioned. Its design life was, I believe, 10 years, and it exceeded that by quite a bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you working all through that time period? Were you still in that management position, the Test and Integration Group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I got a little more hands-on technically with the TDRSS, but yes, I was still at the same position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, of course, the second TDRSS that was going to launch was on the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L], and then was lost during the accident."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 27.814776803032125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I got a little more hands-on technically with the TDRSS, but yes, I was still at the same position."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then, of course, the second TDRSS that was going to launch was on the [Space Shuttle] Challenger [STS-51L], and then was lost during the accident."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, and unfortunately, I was at the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] at the time for a meeting for Hubble [Space Telescope] because we had some interface meetings on the Hubble launch that was coming up later. We were at a Hubble meeting and they announced that it’s, like, “45 minutes before launch, and if you want to go watch it, we’ll break the meeting and reconvene after the launch.” Three of us went down in front of the VAB [Vehicle Assembly] Building and there was an open field there, and I have pictures where it was so cold that I had an overcoat on. I had the collar turned up because the wind was really cool.\\n\\n The launch went off and then it appeared like there was a problem, but it looked like, we were hoping, that the Shuttle would actually separate and fly off, but that was not to be. We saw the whole thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite an emotional day, the rest of the day, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back to the headquarters building where we had the meeting, and everybody was glued in front of the TV sets. You could hear a pin drop. They kept replaying and replaying the launch sequence there, so yes. After that, I had a hard time watching TV for the future launches until the separation, until those solids separated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.758983707447065, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went back to the headquarters building where we had the meeting, and everybody was glued in front of the TV sets. You could hear a pin drop. They kept replaying and replaying the launch sequence there, so yes. After that, I had a hard time watching TV for the future launches until the separation, until those solids separated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just had a scar from that. It was kind of different, how I happened to be down there, because the Shuttle was supposed to launch, like, two days before that. They slipped, and then the next day, they were supposed to launch the day that I was flying to Florida, so when I landed in Florida, I said, “Did it launch?”\\n\\n They said, “No.”\\n\\n I said, “Oh, good, I’ll get to see it.” What happened the second day, I think there was some handle or something they had a problem with, and so they scrubbed the launch and they fixed that. We ended up seeing it because of the slips there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that, obviously you probably didn’t just go back to your meetings. Did everything just stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like everybody was walking around in shock at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. Our meeting was at the headquarters building. No, we did not resume the meeting, but the rest of the day was spent essentially watching the thing over and over again, and seeing if there was any more information that would come forth from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you were meeting about Hubble and this was definitely going to put a hold on Hubble."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.17664856383007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just had a scar from that. It was kind of different, how I happened to be down there, because the Shuttle was supposed to launch, like, two days before that. They slipped, and then the next day, they were supposed to launch the day that I was flying to Florida, so when I landed in Florida, I said, “Did it launch?”\\n\\n They said, “No.”\\n\\n I said, “Oh, good, I’ll get to see it.” What happened the second day, I think there was some handle or something they had a problem with, and so they scrubbed the launch and they fixed that. We ended up seeing it because of the slips there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After that, obviously you probably didn’t just go back to your meetings. Did everything just stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like everybody was walking around in shock at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. Our meeting was at the headquarters building. No, we did not resume the meeting, but the rest of the day was spent essentially watching the thing over and over again, and seeing if there was any more information that would come forth from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you were meeting about Hubble and this was definitely going to put a hold on Hubble."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It delayed that substantially, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly were you meeting about and did you continue working with the Hubble project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.41849840425564, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like everybody was walking around in shock at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida]. Our meeting was at the headquarters building. No, we did not resume the meeting, but the rest of the day was spent essentially watching the thing over and over again, and seeing if there was any more information that would come forth from that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you were meeting about Hubble and this was definitely going to put a hold on Hubble."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It delayed that substantially, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly were you meeting about and did you continue working with the Hubble project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Hubble was supported by the Space Network, and also during the launch by the Ground Network. I think we were discussing three things, they were doing compatibility testing down at the Cape when the Hubble got down there, and also the support from the TDRSS and the ground stations that was going to be upcoming. It was kind of a project meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know when Shuttles launched, there was a whole network of networks that carried the telemetry and the signals, starting, I believe, with MILA [Merritt Island Launch Area] was first."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 36.02055378250626, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It delayed that substantially, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What exactly were you meeting about and did you continue working with the Hubble project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Hubble was supported by the Space Network, and also during the launch by the Ground Network. I think we were discussing three things, they were doing compatibility testing down at the Cape when the Hubble got down there, and also the support from the TDRSS and the ground stations that was going to be upcoming. It was kind of a project meeting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know when Shuttles launched, there was a whole network of networks that carried the telemetry and the signals, starting, I believe, with MILA [Merritt Island Launch Area] was first."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There was a process, could you just walk us through that? Walk us through a Shuttle launch, as far as the network coverage as it launched and went into orbit?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.864736751266975, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I spent about six months in there twice, when we had a senior manager and the station manager that left, and I would fill in until we found a person that was qualified that we could put down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, from the beginning, with Gemini and Apollo and the limited coverage and the numerous ground stations, then with TDRSS."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a difference, what a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, probably the longest pass you would get would be 12, 13, 14 minutes, and that would be ideal. That would be at the circle across the middle, but most of the passes were less than that because you hit the fringes. With TDRSS, it’s continuous, so essentially, we went from having 10-minute spots occasionally to full-time voice communication and data communication with the crew. Yes, it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine your job was a little busier at that point just because there wasn’t as much downtime in-between."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.516374168074414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What a difference, what a difference."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to talk about that difference?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, probably the longest pass you would get would be 12, 13, 14 minutes, and that would be ideal. That would be at the circle across the middle, but most of the passes were less than that because you hit the fringes. With TDRSS, it’s continuous, so essentially, we went from having 10-minute spots occasionally to full-time voice communication and data communication with the crew. Yes, it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine your job was a little busier at that point just because there wasn’t as much downtime in-between."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the other hand, once you establish the signal and you have the TDRSS acquisition, after that it’s pretty much like a telephone call. Once you make your call, it just keeps—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It keeps going."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 40.57374907563823, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, probably the longest pass you would get would be 12, 13, 14 minutes, and that would be ideal. That would be at the circle across the middle, but most of the passes were less than that because you hit the fringes. With TDRSS, it’s continuous, so essentially, we went from having 10-minute spots occasionally to full-time voice communication and data communication with the crew. Yes, it changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine your job was a little busier at that point just because there wasn’t as much downtime in-between."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the other hand, once you establish the signal and you have the TDRSS acquisition, after that it’s pretty much like a telephone call. Once you make your call, it just keeps—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It keeps going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeps going, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really made a difference. I know the technology, as it changed throughout your career, has really made a difference."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.74861008404248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the other hand, once you establish the signal and you have the TDRSS acquisition, after that it’s pretty much like a telephone call. Once you make your call, it just keeps—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It keeps going."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeps going, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really made a difference. I know the technology, as it changed throughout your career, has really made a difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tremendously, yes. We used to think a high data rate for the communications, when I went up to Madagascar, we had 9.6-kilobit communication links. During the Apollo Program, the sites went to 56-kilobit lines, so they would have three 56-kilobit lines. Now, you have megabits. During Mercury and Gemini, Houston used to send people out to the stations themselves, they would have a flight surgeon at the station, they’d have a controller from Houston that would do the actual communication with the thing. With the advent of the higher communication lines and the TDRSS, they sit in Houston and talk to them continually, any time they want. Before, that had to be planned, “When’s the next acquisition and when can we...” Quite a change, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a contractor all the way through your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 46.38734453782498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Keeps going, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It really made a difference. I know the technology, as it changed throughout your career, has really made a difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tremendously, yes. We used to think a high data rate for the communications, when I went up to Madagascar, we had 9.6-kilobit communication links. During the Apollo Program, the sites went to 56-kilobit lines, so they would have three 56-kilobit lines. Now, you have megabits. During Mercury and Gemini, Houston used to send people out to the stations themselves, they would have a flight surgeon at the station, they’d have a controller from Houston that would do the actual communication with the thing. With the advent of the higher communication lines and the TDRSS, they sit in Houston and talk to them continually, any time they want. Before, that had to be planned, “When’s the next acquisition and when can we...” Quite a change, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a contractor all the way through your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been a contractor my whole career, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in ’88, AlliedSignal, did they just take over for Bendix for the contract you were working on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 48.20816059758331, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tremendously, yes. We used to think a high data rate for the communications, when I went up to Madagascar, we had 9.6-kilobit communication links. During the Apollo Program, the sites went to 56-kilobit lines, so they would have three 56-kilobit lines. Now, you have megabits. During Mercury and Gemini, Houston used to send people out to the stations themselves, they would have a flight surgeon at the station, they’d have a controller from Houston that would do the actual communication with the thing. With the advent of the higher communication lines and the TDRSS, they sit in Houston and talk to them continually, any time they want. Before, that had to be planned, “When’s the next acquisition and when can we...” Quite a change, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were a contractor all the way through your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve been a contractor my whole career, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in ’88, AlliedSignal, did they just take over for Bendix for the contract you were working on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "AlliedSignal bought Bendix and essentially, Bendix was merged into it. The contract I was on, Bendix Field Engineering won that initially and kept it until two years ago. It was a long run, from ’63 to ’11."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became the associate program manager for NASCOM [NASA Communications System]. Can you talk a little bit about NASCOM and what that meant?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.59091810459843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was out in DSN, I was assigned there as a director of the program, the contract that Bendix or at that time AlliedSignal had with JPL, and I was there when the Sojourner [rover] landed on Mars. That was the first time they used a balloon or a ball that bounced, and that’s how it landed. That was really, really exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when that happened? You were at JPL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at JPL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that is exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so it was a fun year that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like it. After that, is that when you were working on CSOC [Consolidated Space Operations Contract], after that that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 41.76768678288714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at JPL."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that is exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so it was a fun year that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like it. After that, is that when you were working on CSOC [Consolidated Space Operations Contract], after that that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, CSOC was coming in, so when I went out to JPL, I actually was filling in because the person that was there left. I made it clear that I would do this temporarily but not for the long-term. Well, “temporarily” turned out to be a year, and there was a long commute for that year, but like I said, it was a very rewarding experience. I appreciate much more the challenges of deep space that are faced there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s so different from manned spaceflight."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 39.74187420320793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, so it was a fun year that I did there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like it. After that, is that when you were working on CSOC [Consolidated Space Operations Contract], after that that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then, CSOC was coming in, so when I went out to JPL, I actually was filling in because the person that was there left. I made it clear that I would do this temporarily but not for the long-term. Well, “temporarily” turned out to be a year, and there was a long commute for that year, but like I said, it was a very rewarding experience. I appreciate much more the challenges of deep space that are faced there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it’s so different from manned spaceflight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re both challenging but in different ways, yes. Then, so we were getting ready for CSOC, and CSOC was a new concept that NASA was doing by consolidating—I mentioned earlier that there was consolidation at Goddard, like the NASCOM and the tracking and the flight dynamics and the spacecraft operations—the next step with CSOC was doing it across all the Centers at NASA. It took JSC, it took Kennedy, it took [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], Goddard, and took the similar type of work and put it under one contract. AlliedSignal bid with Lockheed and we were successful in winning that contract and then phasing it in as a consolidating contract.\\n\\n While it was technically successful, it was, I don’t think, perceived as being the right way to go because after five years, which was the life of the contract, it was changed back and broken up back to going back to the individual Centers. Like I said, operationally, I think it was successful, but from a business standpoint, I think there was a lot of resistance and perceived problems that basically said, “You know, we need to go back to smaller chunks.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As part of your work during that, you were the customer services director. You helped implement commercial services to assist the government owned ground stations. Can you talk about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.558481944765134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a very short fuse on it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned also in your résumé that you gave us, the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter [LRO] launch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The antenna system support?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the LRO, we installed a new antenna out in White Sands. It was used exclusively for the LRO; we’re now beginning to use it for other uses as well. It was a new antenna, new system, and there was a lot of anxiety about using something brand new and untried. I got involved in a lot of the testing prior to launch and then supported it during the launch. Went out to White Sands on the first pass, and everything worked. The other part, the reason there was anxiety, is because the LRO uses Ka band, and this was the first Ka band user that we had. The antenna is S band and also Ka band, and so, we did a lot of testing on both S band and Ka band, and when it launched, it worked. It’s been working ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As we mentioned, you’ve worked as a contractor since the beginning, but having NASA as a customer, how has that changed since the beginning in the early ’60s, when you were working on Gemini, to now? How has that relationship changed, or has it changed over the years?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.316161789801285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I’ve always found a good relationship with my government customers. I almost became a NASA employee at one point, and that was getting ready to start when President [Ronald] Reagan got elected, and of course, his first act was to put a freeze on government hiring. The offer was retracted, and that was as close as I got to being a government employee.\\n\\n Like I said, it was very close, so I could have been on either side of the thing. I’ve always had good relations with the people that I work with. I think NASA’s a great place to work, and I think it’s an exciting place to work, and I think it draws, both on the government side and the contractor side, people that like that kind of excitement and challenges and working environment. I’ve always had good relations. The contractors and government complement each other. Sometimes some are stronger technically, but both sides, they usually complement each other to work together. It’s a very strong team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first started, you were more on the technical side, hands-on, doing the work, and you’ve moved to management, more management, and then you were talking about going to Greece for the Soyuz."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I like to keep my hands in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to say, is that something you miss doing, being a manager, and do you take those opportunities as often as possible?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can manage different ways. My management style has always been more hands-on and involved with people that I manage rather than sitting in an office. I’ve always felt that if I ask somebody to do something, I’d like to know that I can do it and know what it entails, doing it. I would say my management style was hands-on, working with the people, rather than more administrative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s easier to manage if you know what they’re doing, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 35.90684643311254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See, I like to keep my hands in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I was going to say, is that something you miss doing, being a manager, and do you take those opportunities as often as possible?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You can manage different ways. My management style has always been more hands-on and involved with people that I manage rather than sitting in an office. I’ve always felt that if I ask somebody to do something, I’d like to know that I can do it and know what it entails, doing it. I would say my management style was hands-on, working with the people, rather than more administrative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s easier to manage if you know what they’re doing, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If you understand the challenges because a lot of times, it’s easy to criticize, but if you don’t fully understand what it takes to do the job there, it’s easy to go astray."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve had the luck or the need in your job to travel all over the world. Are there any experiences or any places that stand out in your mind as the most memorable?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.478808768651943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a different time. I had gotten out of the Air Force right as Vietnam was starting up, and one of our trips to Australia—when we did the Apollo trips, we basically had two big trips. One was Atlantic [Ocean], which did MILA, did Grand Bahamas was the station, did Ascension Island was a station, Dakar, and then the Canary Islands and Madrid. That was pretty much the Atlantic trip. Then, going to the Pacific [Ocean] was the other trip, and that was basically Goldstone in California, Hawaii, Guam, Carnarvon, which was a station on the West Coast, Orroral, which was a station on the East Coast in Australia, made up that trip. On one of the trips that I was going on the Pacific, we went from Baltimore to North Dakota, North Dakota to Alaska, Alaska to Japan, and then down to heading towards Australia.\\n\\n We stopped in the Philippines, at Clark Air Force Base, and that’s where it kind of hit me, the Vietnam War, because we landed there. They had airplanes everywhere, and they parked us on the taxiway. When we said, “Do you have any rooms at the BOQ [Bachelor Officers Quarters],” they just laughed and said, “No, you go downtown.” The place was overrun by military aircraft and the influx of traffic that was caused by Vietnam there.\\n\\n When I was in Madagascar, news was kind of hard to get, but we could get BBC on the radio, so that’s how we kept in contact with the real world there. By the time we get a Herald Trib [Tribune, newspaper] from Europe, it’d be a week old, but it was still good to read a newspaper even though it was a week old."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With Apollo 11, when they landed on the Moon, where were you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was here, I was here at Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at work or were you at home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at home, glued in front of the TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that you helped bring about that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.309787520724381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was here, I was here at Goddard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you at work or were you at home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at home, glued in front of the TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Knowing that you helped bring about that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Listening to it, and I said, “Boy, that’s just like we were training!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had the same script you did, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.2589969391659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Listening to it, and I said, “Boy, that’s just like we were training!”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They had the same script you did, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The script was made up in Houston, it was basically to do with the readings of the landing itself. It sounded very similar, yes, because their readouts, they knew they were going to be getting that type of readouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career, is there anything that you would say was the most challenging, and what would that be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.287774376851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The script was made up in Houston, it was basically to do with the readings of the landing itself. It sounded very similar, yes, because their readouts, they knew they were going to be getting that type of readouts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career, is there anything that you would say was the most challenging, and what would that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about most challenging, but I think that the change that has taken place over the length of my career there is pretty phenomenal. When I started at the stations there, everything was manual. You could make the connections manually, you tuned the receivers manually, you did everything manually. Over time, you transition to where it’s full automation now. The commercial stations are running stations that don’t have anybody there. They have somebody on call to do maintenance when something happens, but the operation, it’s all set up by computers and scheduled. It was a total transition from doing everything manually to almost hands-off, where we are today.\\n\\n The TDRSS is the same way. It’s amazing, the amount of data that’s pushed through that system, and the number of users at the same time. Whereas when you had one pass or five passes a day, you’d say, “Wow, that was a big day!” They do 10 passes consecutively. It’s the technology transition from the way it was to the way it is now. I’m sure it’ll be different in 20 years as well. I think we still would be amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The number of things out there to track now—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.097527085390002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that was pretty exciting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career, is there anything that you would say was the most challenging, and what would that be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about most challenging, but I think that the change that has taken place over the length of my career there is pretty phenomenal. When I started at the stations there, everything was manual. You could make the connections manually, you tuned the receivers manually, you did everything manually. Over time, you transition to where it’s full automation now. The commercial stations are running stations that don’t have anybody there. They have somebody on call to do maintenance when something happens, but the operation, it’s all set up by computers and scheduled. It was a total transition from doing everything manually to almost hands-off, where we are today.\\n\\n The TDRSS is the same way. It’s amazing, the amount of data that’s pushed through that system, and the number of users at the same time. Whereas when you had one pass or five passes a day, you’d say, “Wow, that was a big day!” They do 10 passes consecutively. It’s the technology transition from the way it was to the way it is now. I’m sure it’ll be different in 20 years as well. I think we still would be amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The number of things out there to track now—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the other thing, is that we used the airplanes because there was nothing else to use as a test. Then, they did launch what they call the Test and Training Satellites, but that was very crude and not very successful. Now, there are satellites up there that we routinely, if we need to check an antenna, we’ll just track one of them. It went from one mission, like Apollo was a couple of missions a year, to continuous missions now, all the time. [International] Space Station, it’s up there and it’s being tracked every day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All types of data and telemetry."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.997252317100003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about most challenging, but I think that the change that has taken place over the length of my career there is pretty phenomenal. When I started at the stations there, everything was manual. You could make the connections manually, you tuned the receivers manually, you did everything manually. Over time, you transition to where it’s full automation now. The commercial stations are running stations that don’t have anybody there. They have somebody on call to do maintenance when something happens, but the operation, it’s all set up by computers and scheduled. It was a total transition from doing everything manually to almost hands-off, where we are today.\\n\\n The TDRSS is the same way. It’s amazing, the amount of data that’s pushed through that system, and the number of users at the same time. Whereas when you had one pass or five passes a day, you’d say, “Wow, that was a big day!” They do 10 passes consecutively. It’s the technology transition from the way it was to the way it is now. I’m sure it’ll be different in 20 years as well. I think we still would be amazed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The number of things out there to track now—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the other thing, is that we used the airplanes because there was nothing else to use as a test. Then, they did launch what they call the Test and Training Satellites, but that was very crude and not very successful. Now, there are satellites up there that we routinely, if we need to check an antenna, we’ll just track one of them. It went from one mission, like Apollo was a couple of missions a year, to continuous missions now, all the time. [International] Space Station, it’s up there and it’s being tracked every day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All types of data and telemetry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All kinds, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Video, yes, everything."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.996947019000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s the other thing, is that we used the airplanes because there was nothing else to use as a test. Then, they did launch what they call the Test and Training Satellites, but that was very crude and not very successful. Now, there are satellites up there that we routinely, if we need to check an antenna, we’ll just track one of them. It went from one mission, like Apollo was a couple of missions a year, to continuous missions now, all the time. [International] Space Station, it’s up there and it’s being tracked every day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All types of data and telemetry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All kinds, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Video, yes, everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They send up faxes; it’s just like being on Earth. The communication’s very solid. When you talk on a phone now with somebody overseas, you don’t know that they’re overseas; they could be next door, for clarity. Technology has come a long ways. The space program, I think, has been a driver for a lot of the technology, medical technology, a lot of computers. The chips, a lot of that stuff was designed because of the weight considerations and reliability that you need for spaceflight is migrated into things that we take for granted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, the telemetry in the medical field and everything else."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.107718910000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All kinds, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Video, yes, everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They send up faxes; it’s just like being on Earth. The communication’s very solid. When you talk on a phone now with somebody overseas, you don’t know that they’re overseas; they could be next door, for clarity. Technology has come a long ways. The space program, I think, has been a driver for a lot of the technology, medical technology, a lot of computers. The chips, a lot of that stuff was designed because of the weight considerations and reliability that you need for spaceflight is migrated into things that we take for granted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, the telemetry in the medical field and everything else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ambulances sending the vital signs by telemetry to the hospital on the way to the hospital, I believe that’s all a fallout of the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you received a Silver Snoopy [Award]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 12.341909900000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They send up faxes; it’s just like being on Earth. The communication’s very solid. When you talk on a phone now with somebody overseas, you don’t know that they’re overseas; they could be next door, for clarity. Technology has come a long ways. The space program, I think, has been a driver for a lot of the technology, medical technology, a lot of computers. The chips, a lot of that stuff was designed because of the weight considerations and reliability that you need for spaceflight is migrated into things that we take for granted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, the telemetry in the medical field and everything else."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ambulances sending the vital signs by telemetry to the hospital on the way to the hospital, I believe that’s all a fallout of the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you received a Silver Snoopy [Award]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.491011000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ambulances sending the vital signs by telemetry to the hospital on the way to the hospital, I believe that’s all a fallout of the space program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also read that you received a Silver Snoopy [Award]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all the support we just talked about. John [W.] Young gave it to me, and I had Dan Brandenstein there, since he was my manager at the time. I had two astronauts for the award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was exciting."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.767790000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was that for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all the support we just talked about. John [W.] Young gave it to me, and I had Dan Brandenstein there, since he was my manager at the time. I had two astronauts for the award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career again, is there anything that you’re most proud of that you had a chance to work on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.853100000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For all the support we just talked about. John [W.] Young gave it to me, and I had Dan Brandenstein there, since he was my manager at the time. I had two astronauts for the award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was exciting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career again, is there anything that you’re most proud of that you had a chance to work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I have to go back to Apollo because that was a very high-level goal that President [John F.] Kennedy said, “In this decade, we’re going to put a man on the Moon.” When you think about it, that was quite a challenge, and it was very successful. When Apollo 11 landed, I said, “Man, now we’ve got to get back.” You can simulate that very well.\\n\\n I did have a friend of mine that worked for Bendix and he told me a little anecdote about the bolts, the separation bolts, the explosive bolts that were used on the Lunar Module as it took off. There were bolts that were holding it together, and they had to blow those away to lift off. He worked in quality control and he spent a lot of time out at White Sands testing ground, blowing these bolts from different lots and numbers, and he said they never had one fail. Fortunately, they never had one fail when they had them on the Moon. There was a lot of testing. That’s just one part of a very complex system, but all it would have taken would be one bolt not to blow and the whole thing would have—there’s a pretty amazing accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a very short period of time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 12.059000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career again, is there anything that you’re most proud of that you had a chance to work on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I have to go back to Apollo because that was a very high-level goal that President [John F.] Kennedy said, “In this decade, we’re going to put a man on the Moon.” When you think about it, that was quite a challenge, and it was very successful. When Apollo 11 landed, I said, “Man, now we’ve got to get back.” You can simulate that very well.\\n\\n I did have a friend of mine that worked for Bendix and he told me a little anecdote about the bolts, the separation bolts, the explosive bolts that were used on the Lunar Module as it took off. There were bolts that were holding it together, and they had to blow those away to lift off. He worked in quality control and he spent a lot of time out at White Sands testing ground, blowing these bolts from different lots and numbers, and he said they never had one fail. Fortunately, they never had one fail when they had them on the Moon. There was a lot of testing. That’s just one part of a very complex system, but all it would have taken would be one bolt not to blow and the whole thing would have—there’s a pretty amazing accomplishment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In a very short period of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a very short period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask Rebecca, and see if she had anything.\n\nI was wondering if you could share with us some of the projects you’re working on now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:168", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, I’m basically managing the commercial contracts there, so every year, we determine what spacecraft we’re going to be flying and how much support we need, and then I translate that into contracts with the commercial providers. We have a weekly meeting where we literally go around the world somewhat to discuss the last week’s activities and what’s coming up.\\n\\n I call it the Inquisition, and essentially, we go in sequence where we start off in Norway because of the time difference. When it’s early in the morning here, it’s late in the afternoon there, and then we go to Chile, which is pretty much on our timeframe, then we go to USN, which is the company that does the Alaska, Hawaii, and Australia, but it’s controlled out of Horsham, Pennsylvania, so there’s your remote, where everything was done manually. They have people sitting in Pennsylvania that basically control the station in Australia, the station in Hawaii, the stations up in Alaska. Then, we go to Alaska, which is the University of Alaska has a station up there and they participate in this, and then Wallops Island is on the eastern shore here.\\n\\n We go around all those stations and basically talk about any problems that we had or anything coming up that needs their attention. That’s part of my job, is just to get the services and make sure that the services are provided on time, accurately, and within affordable limits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned about having government customers. Now we have up-and-coming American launch services. Are you involved with the commercial launch services like SpaceX and Orbital Sciences [Corporation] and the new Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport [MARS]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but some of our people here are because of Wallops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MARS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "MARS, yes. SpaceX uses TDRSS once they launch, going to the Station. No, we’re not involved with them directly, but we still support SpaceX and will be supporting the Cygnus once it launches out of Wallops, there, with TDRSS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your repertoire continues to grow, doesn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but some of our people here are because of Wallops."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "MARS?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "MARS, yes. SpaceX uses TDRSS once they launch, going to the Station. No, we’re not involved with them directly, but we still support SpaceX and will be supporting the Cygnus once it launches out of Wallops, there, with TDRSS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your repertoire continues to grow, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does, yes, but when I talk about commercialization, in my world, it’s the ground stations, but there’s commercialization now, as you mentioned, the SpaceX and the Orbital Sciences is moving into the launch vehicle commercialization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This sounds like a simple question, and it might be. Are a spacecraft and a satellite the same challenge in tracking, or are there different issues depending on what kind of vehicle or item has launched?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:172", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "MARS, yes. SpaceX uses TDRSS once they launch, going to the Station. No, we’re not involved with them directly, but we still support SpaceX and will be supporting the Cygnus once it launches out of Wallops, there, with TDRSS."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your repertoire continues to grow, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does, yes, but when I talk about commercialization, in my world, it’s the ground stations, but there’s commercialization now, as you mentioned, the SpaceX and the Orbital Sciences is moving into the launch vehicle commercialization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This sounds like a simple question, and it might be. Are a spacecraft and a satellite the same challenge in tracking, or are there different issues depending on what kind of vehicle or item has launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, it’s the same because you’re dealing with signals but there’s usually a higher complexity with the manned missions because you have more signals. You have the separate voice transmitters, you have telemetry, usually maybe a couple different telemetry transponders, but generally no, it’s tracking a satellite or tracking a capsule, the tracking part is the same. It’s just how much information or how you have to process that information on the ground, it gets more complex with the manned missions and some of the higher satellites, like Hubble. Hubble is large amounts of data, so you have to deal with volume."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. Of course, you have that human factor that can fiddle with things that can make your job a little difficult. Thank you.\n\nWas there anything we haven’t talked about, or any highlights, or any memorable moments that you’d like to mention?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00889:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does, yes, but when I talk about commercialization, in my world, it’s the ground stations, but there’s commercialization now, as you mentioned, the SpaceX and the Orbital Sciences is moving into the launch vehicle commercialization."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This sounds like a simple question, and it might be. Are a spacecraft and a satellite the same challenge in tracking, or are there different issues depending on what kind of vehicle or item has launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Basically, it’s the same because you’re dealing with signals but there’s usually a higher complexity with the manned missions because you have more signals. You have the separate voice transmitters, you have telemetry, usually maybe a couple different telemetry transponders, but generally no, it’s tracking a satellite or tracking a capsule, the tracking part is the same. It’s just how much information or how you have to process that information on the ground, it gets more complex with the manned missions and some of the higher satellites, like Hubble. Hubble is large amounts of data, so you have to deal with volume."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just curious. Of course, you have that human factor that can fiddle with things that can make your job a little difficult. Thank you.\n\nWas there anything we haven’t talked about, or any highlights, or any memorable moments that you’d like to mention?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, all I can say is that it’s been a very exciting career and I feel very fortunate, being part of this part of the NASA history that has changed the world a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’ve had a 40-year career so far with it, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:0", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.89353490937611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the Navy ROTC in college and took a commission in the Marine Corps. Went through officer basic school and from there went into flight training and served a tour in … [a] Marine fighter squadron. And when I got out of the Marines, or got off of active duty, I went to work for a company in Dallas called Temco [Aircraft Corporation]. And they were making—they had three contracts. One was a trainer for the Navy, a basic trainer, one was a target drone and the other one was an air-to-surface missile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was it, a small company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a small company but that was—they had a lot going but all three of those—none of those three ever got into a production contract. They all flew through flight test phases and then that was it. But anyway from there I went to work for Martin in Baltimore. And that was one of those kind of career things, … [I] went up there for a specific job and when I got there they had reorganized. And the guy that I was going to work for didn’t get the department that he was planning to start but he found me a very good job … doing reentry trajectory analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For which program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was a general study. Kind of a basic parametric study of the effects of different things, lift and drag ratios and entry angle on trajectory results. And so I got to do a lot of that. … [There] wasn’t anything available on that at the time and with a computer program you could do these things. Vary the parameters and see what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of code were y’all running?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:2", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.881705454862345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was a small company but that was—they had a lot going but all three of those—none of those three ever got into a production contract. They all flew through flight test phases and then that was it. But anyway from there I went to work for Martin in Baltimore. And that was one of those kind of career things, … [I] went up there for a specific job and when I got there they had reorganized. And the guy that I was going to work for didn’t get the department that he was planning to start but he found me a very good job … doing reentry trajectory analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For which program?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was a general study. Kind of a basic parametric study of the effects of different things, lift and drag ratios and entry angle on trajectory results. And so I got to do a lot of that. … [There] wasn’t anything available on that at the time and with a computer program you could do these things. Vary the parameters and see what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of code were y’all running?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, I don’t remember. Well, it was machine language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all machine language?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:4", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.535228283180384, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well it was a general study. Kind of a basic parametric study of the effects of different things, lift and drag ratios and entry angle on trajectory results. And so I got to do a lot of that. … [There] wasn’t anything available on that at the time and with a computer program you could do these things. Vary the parameters and see what happened."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of code were y’all running?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, I don’t remember. Well, it was machine language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all machine language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yes, ones and zeros. But that evolved into working the Apollo study program. We won a contract to do an Apollo study phase. … [I spent] a couple of years working that … [but then Martin] didn’t get selected to build Apollo. And some other things were happening there and I just found it incredible that people really thought they were going to go to the Moon, but it was fun working on it. And then when NASA actually awarded a contract and said that they were really going to do this, I decided that I really wanted to work on that, so I left there and came to work down here for JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in ’62."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:6", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.372475870200425, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh boy, I don’t remember. Well, it was machine language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all machine language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Yes, ones and zeros. But that evolved into working the Apollo study program. We won a contract to do an Apollo study phase. … [I spent] a couple of years working that … [but then Martin] didn’t get selected to build Apollo. And some other things were happening there and I just found it incredible that people really thought they were going to go to the Moon, but it was fun working on it. And then when NASA actually awarded a contract and said that they were really going to do this, I decided that I really wanted to work on that, so I left there and came to work down here for JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was in ’62."}, {"role": "user", "content": "’62, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When they first started JSC. How did you get—most of the people we’ve talk to were in the Space Task Group, you know, under [Robert R.] Gilruth at Langley and they moved here. How did you get into the program? Did they put out a call?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:10", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 29.472192432346205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "’62, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When they first started JSC. How did you get—most of the people we’ve talk to were in the Space Task Group, you know, under [Robert R.] Gilruth at Langley and they moved here. How did you get into the program? Did they put out a call?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they were recruiting people right and left. And having worked the study contract, I had a lot of experience doing reentry trajectory analysis. And we had worked the Apollo proposals so we knew all about the mechanics, the flight mechanics problems. And work on that was just experience they really wanted so it was no problem at all getting a job offer. In fact, I started out as a section head. They hired me as a section head for Reentry Study section."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mission planning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mission planning, right. Morris Jenkins was the branch chief. He did a little bit of reorganizing after I got here and I was actually working the head of two sections for a while. One of them was the Guidance and Control Section and the other one was Reentry Studies. I got a fellow I knew from Martin to come down, Claude Graves, to come down and … [work] the Reentry Section. So he came and took that over and I just worked the guidance stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were y’all then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:14", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.34838571894593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mission planning, right. Morris Jenkins was the branch chief. He did a little bit of reorganizing after I got here and I was actually working the head of two sections for a while. One of them was the Guidance and Control Section and the other one was Reentry Studies. I got a fellow I knew from Martin to come down, Claude Graves, to come down and … [work] the Reentry Section. So he came and took that over and I just worked the guidance stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where were y’all then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in—they called it the Houston Petroleum Center. It was … [an] office … [building complex] on Gulf Freeway. They had a fake oil derrick out in front of it… You know where Oshman’s warehouse is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was right next to that. In fact some of the flight control people, John Llewelyn in particular was one, … [were] in that Oshman warehouse. NASA had offices in there. But that was really, really good, interesting fun working back in those days because you were doing trajectory studies and guidance studies … [for which] there was no precedence (that we were aware of anyway). So you did a lot of … [creative thinking]. You did a lot of analysis and then … [developed] computer program[s] that would be a good simulation of it. And if you had confidence that it was a good simulation then you would run a bunch of further analysis and do things, trial and error, a lot of stuff on the computer, until you got something that seemed to work right. [This was the tool we used for planning Apollo mission flight paths (trajectories). We developed that from \"scratch.\"]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the first thing—what system did you first do any trajectory analysis on?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:16", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 31.498206354384365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in—they called it the Houston Petroleum Center. It was … [an] office … [building complex] on Gulf Freeway. They had a fake oil derrick out in front of it… You know where Oshman’s warehouse is?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was right next to that. In fact some of the flight control people, John Llewelyn in particular was one, … [were] in that Oshman warehouse. NASA had offices in there. But that was really, really good, interesting fun working back in those days because you were doing trajectory studies and guidance studies … [for which] there was no precedence (that we were aware of anyway). So you did a lot of … [creative thinking]. You did a lot of analysis and then … [developed] computer program[s] that would be a good simulation of it. And if you had confidence that it was a good simulation then you would run a bunch of further analysis and do things, trial and error, a lot of stuff on the computer, until you got something that seemed to work right. [This was the tool we used for planning Apollo mission flight paths (trajectories). We developed that from \"scratch.\"]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the first thing—what system did you first do any trajectory analysis on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On Gemini. You did work on the Gemini reentry?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:18", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.442451504871517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was right next to that. In fact some of the flight control people, John Llewelyn in particular was one, … [were] in that Oshman warehouse. NASA had offices in there. But that was really, really good, interesting fun working back in those days because you were doing trajectory studies and guidance studies … [for which] there was no precedence (that we were aware of anyway). So you did a lot of … [creative thinking]. You did a lot of analysis and then … [developed] computer program[s] that would be a good simulation of it. And if you had confidence that it was a good simulation then you would run a bunch of further analysis and do things, trial and error, a lot of stuff on the computer, until you got something that seemed to work right. [This was the tool we used for planning Apollo mission flight paths (trajectories). We developed that from \"scratch.\"]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was the first thing—what system did you first do any trajectory analysis on?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Gemini."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On Gemini. You did work on the Gemini reentry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah, they were still flying Mercury but I wasn’t working it at all. That was, let’s see, [L. Gordon] Cooper was [the last mission]—I think [Walter M. Schirra, Jr.] Schirra’s flight was in that time frame too. I think they were still doing two or three of the Mercury flights. But I wasn’t involved in that. Morris Jenkins’ branch was not involved in that at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did y’all interact with [Maxime A.] Faget’s design team?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:26", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.828763153286868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But I remember being bothered by it. That you felt like you were spending a lot of time trying to see if the other guy’s idea really had a hole in it that you could move him out of the way and get your approach across."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work with the docking missions too, for Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but we weren’t the main stream part of that. Ed [Edgar C.] Lineberry and … [his branch] were the ones that really did the rendezvous and the terminal part of rendezvous, the proximity ops and things. But they were focused on that and really worked that out during the Gemini part of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did y’all move onto the Apollo piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we started, with Morris Jenkins, we started Apollo, … in ’62. Most of our effort was on Apollo. And really the only Gemini effort was reentry and that was because they had a lifting component on the Gemini [entry vehicle]. They didn’t on Mercury. And the guys that were running Mercury, Carl [R.] Huss and … [the] Flight Analysis Branch, … were doing all the Mercury work and they had no experience with the lifting body … [trajectories]. And so Morris’ people got involved in doing the Gemini reentry … [analysis and planning]. And there was, within John Mayor’s division, there were people competing for an area to work in between Carl Huss’ guys and Morris Jenkins reentry people. In that case, Morris’ reentry folks eventually took over that whole job because of the ability they had to do the lifting body analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you see as the biggest problem with the—if you’re looking at Gemini and the reentry, what did you see as the biggest issues you guys faced?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:28", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 30.92084794809652, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but we weren’t the main stream part of that. Ed [Edgar C.] Lineberry and … [his branch] were the ones that really did the rendezvous and the terminal part of rendezvous, the proximity ops and things. But they were focused on that and really worked that out during the Gemini part of the program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did y’all move onto the Apollo piece."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well we started, with Morris Jenkins, we started Apollo, … in ’62. Most of our effort was on Apollo. And really the only Gemini effort was reentry and that was because they had a lifting component on the Gemini [entry vehicle]. They didn’t on Mercury. And the guys that were running Mercury, Carl [R.] Huss and … [the] Flight Analysis Branch, … were doing all the Mercury work and they had no experience with the lifting body … [trajectories]. And so Morris’ people got involved in doing the Gemini reentry … [analysis and planning]. And there was, within John Mayor’s division, there were people competing for an area to work in between Carl Huss’ guys and Morris Jenkins reentry people. In that case, Morris’ reentry folks eventually took over that whole job because of the ability they had to do the lifting body analysis."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you see as the biggest problem with the—if you’re looking at Gemini and the reentry, what did you see as the biggest issues you guys faced?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don’t think it was—I don’t recall it being any big technical issue. You just couldn’t miss the ship that much because you didn’t have that big of a maneuver envelope. And as long as you did the de-orbit maneuver in a reasonably good fashion, the lifting maneuvering stuff was just kind of like tweaking the thing a little bit. So …, I don’t really remember a big entry problem with Gemini. It wasn’t that big a deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked on Apollo simultaneously?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:36", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.472562030325435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were y’all surprised when they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was surprised. I was a little apprehensive about it but … [we were] going to have to do it sometime. The first time, it had to happen. By that time, I had left the Mission Analysis and was over working my way up through the Flight Directorate Branch. [I] [w]as really disappointed I didn’t get put on that mission [as a Flight Director]. Really was. … [I'd] been working that trajectory for two years [in Mission Planning, I thought]. I’m the perfect guy to get put on that, but it didn’t happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When ya’ll designed the trajectory to go to the Moon, you hear a lot about the Earth orbit rendezvous versus Lunar orbit rendezvous discussion?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was going on when I came here in ’62. I mean it had been going on for a good while and I really don’t remember if it got resolved just before I got here or shortly after I got here, but I wasn’t involved in that tradeoff. That was a big decision to go that way and it worked fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on the LEM [lunar excursion module] trajectories, as well, and finding the descent stage—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:44", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.836552401044706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, in that the operation folks made inputs into that. We didn’t build it or we didn’t say this is the way it’s going to be. We’d make inputs into what we wanted, what we thought it ought to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when did you actually leave MPAD [Missions Planning and Analysis Division] and go into the Flight Directors Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was in ’68. It was … I remember being in a MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] as an observer [(a flight director trainee) during] … the Saturn flight that Glynn [S.]Lunney was the flight director on. And we had really serious trouble with one of the [Saturn] stage’s engines, … [he] couldn’t tell whether it was burning or not. And I was sitting there, sympathizing with Glynn, as he was trying to get this situation resolved. He was just about to go LOS [loss of signal]and I remember thinking and watching him work that and thinking, “Boy, that’s tough.” Because it was the difference of whether there was a successful mission or [a] failure. And that was … we were flying Apollo missions but it was an unmanned flight. I believe that was ’68, might have been ’67, I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So which mission did you work on? You were flight director on 12."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my first mission was Apollo 9. [Eugene F.] Kranz was the lead flight director on that and it was the first Lunar Module Mission, Earth orbit. I had one … [team] on 9, I had a … [team] on 10, did not have a … [team] on Apollo 11, … [had a team on] 12, did not have a shift on 13 and then 14, I was the prime flight director for 14, and then 16 and 17."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What shift did you work on 12?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:46", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.81839155671634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it was in ’68. It was … I remember being in a MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] as an observer [(a flight director trainee) during] … the Saturn flight that Glynn [S.]Lunney was the flight director on. And we had really serious trouble with one of the [Saturn] stage’s engines, … [he] couldn’t tell whether it was burning or not. And I was sitting there, sympathizing with Glynn, as he was trying to get this situation resolved. He was just about to go LOS [loss of signal]and I remember thinking and watching him work that and thinking, “Boy, that’s tough.” Because it was the difference of whether there was a successful mission or [a] failure. And that was … we were flying Apollo missions but it was an unmanned flight. I believe that was ’68, might have been ’67, I’m not sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So which mission did you work on? You were flight director on 12."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my first mission was Apollo 9. [Eugene F.] Kranz was the lead flight director on that and it was the first Lunar Module Mission, Earth orbit. I had one … [team] on 9, I had a … [team] on 10, did not have a … [team] on Apollo 11, … [had a team on] 12, did not have a shift on 13 and then 14, I was the prime flight director for 14, and then 16 and 17."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What shift did you work on 12?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I worked the reentry shift but I’m trying to think if there was [any other big activity for my team]. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during the lightening strike?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:48", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.90932395190704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, my first mission was Apollo 9. [Eugene F.] Kranz was the lead flight director on that and it was the first Lunar Module Mission, Earth orbit. I had one … [team] on 9, I had a … [team] on 10, did not have a … [team] on Apollo 11, … [had a team on] 12, did not have a shift on 13 and then 14, I was the prime flight director for 14, and then 16 and 17."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What shift did you work on 12?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I worked the reentry shift but I’m trying to think if there was [any other big activity for my team]. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during the lightening strike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin was … [the launch flight director]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change the flight plan at all as a result of that, you think?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:50", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.2325821687856, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know I worked the reentry shift but I’m trying to think if there was [any other big activity for my team]. I don’t remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you there during the lightening strike?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin was … [the launch flight director]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change the flight plan at all as a result of that, you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only [in earth orbit]—I don’t … [remember] if they spent … [one] extra rev or two in Earth orbit... I know there was a lot of reevaluation of systems to make sure they hadn’t been damaged. They got things back on and running [during the launch but had to do evaluations in order to see if] … we [had] hurt them some way. We probably spent an extra orbit or two doing that. We had a window that you could [use], if you didn’t get out on the [first] orbit that you wanted, you could come back around and try … [the next] one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t assigned during 13, after the explosion, did you have a function?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:52", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.813980187539556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin was … [the launch flight director]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did that change the flight plan at all as a result of that, you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only [in earth orbit]—I don’t … [remember] if they spent … [one] extra rev or two in Earth orbit... I know there was a lot of reevaluation of systems to make sure they hadn’t been damaged. They got things back on and running [during the launch but had to do evaluations in order to see if] … we [had] hurt them some way. We probably spent an extra orbit or two doing that. We had a window that you could [use], if you didn’t get out on the [first] orbit that you wanted, you could come back around and try … [the next] one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t assigned during 13, after the explosion, did you have a function?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I figured you did. What was your function after this?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:54", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 25.34886687504395, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only [in earth orbit]—I don’t … [remember] if they spent … [one] extra rev or two in Earth orbit... I know there was a lot of reevaluation of systems to make sure they hadn’t been damaged. They got things back on and running [during the launch but had to do evaluations in order to see if] … we [had] hurt them some way. We probably spent an extra orbit or two doing that. We had a window that you could [use], if you didn’t get out on the [first] orbit that you wanted, you could come back around and try … [the next] one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Even though you weren’t assigned during 13, after the explosion, did you have a function?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I figured you did. What was your function after this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, off line, we were working with the EECOMs [Electrical and Environmental Command Officers] and everybody trying to get the power requirements down to nothing. And also looking [at how to get them home]—I remember working with flight dynamics guys trying to decide whether to [do an immediate turn around and come back to earth]— We were getting data relative to doing a [direct] turn around or going … [around] the Moon. [We were] [t]rying to get enough information together to decide that, but … [the answer] was really based on the system’s concern more than trajectory. Even … [though] you could have saved a whole lot of time by coming back directly, we probably wouldn’t have tried it because of the concern about what would happen if you … [fired up the SPS] engine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you worked 14, you were the lead flight director after 13, did you think that had a lot more pressure?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:56", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.943185416715497, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, everybody did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I figured you did. What was your function after this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, off line, we were working with the EECOMs [Electrical and Environmental Command Officers] and everybody trying to get the power requirements down to nothing. And also looking [at how to get them home]—I remember working with flight dynamics guys trying to decide whether to [do an immediate turn around and come back to earth]— We were getting data relative to doing a [direct] turn around or going … [around] the Moon. [We were] [t]rying to get enough information together to decide that, but … [the answer] was really based on the system’s concern more than trajectory. Even … [though] you could have saved a whole lot of time by coming back directly, we probably wouldn’t have tried it because of the concern about what would happen if you … [fired up the SPS] engine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you worked 14, you were the lead flight director after 13, did you think that had a lot more pressure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure we did. I know that there was a lot more media involvement that time then there was on the beginning of 13. Although I don’t really remember the details, I’m sure that we were all a lot more alert all during the trans-lunar coast phase. I mean, we had it demonstrated [to us]that things could happen at any time. And truly by 13, the trans-lunar coast was kind of a phase you just had to get through. You just sort of went into power-down mode while you [coasted along]—waiting till you got to the Moon. … [Apollo 13] showed that you couldn’t relax … [anywhere]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the … when the program got canceled after 17, how did that effect the people you worked with and the morale?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:74", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.7833323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I think they thought that we probably were spying on them or listening to what they had to say. We were having a meeting in my office one time and there were several of them there and we were discussing something… [T]here was a noise in the ceiling and they all looked like … [they thought] somebody['s] eavesdropping in a real crude fashion. And I don’t know [what it was], it was something in the ducting that made some noise and I know damn well that’s what they thought that we were somehow secretly recording what was going on. But that wouldn’t have made sense because there wasn’t anything going on that they would be ashamed of or they couldn’t live with. But they just tolerated the KGB guys. They had no choice and so they had learned to just live with that and go on about and do your job and try not to let them slow you down too much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do during Skylab?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. By that time … I guess when it started, I was the head of the Flight Director Office. And I didn’t work on the console on Skylab. And toward the end of that, I also became the Flight Control Division Chief, so I didn’t work on the console during Skylab. I kept … my biggest problem with Skylab was keeping Putty [Don L. Putt] and Neil Hutchinson apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [There] was—I thought one time those two guys were going to have a fight in the MOCR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, you mentioned keeping people, during trans-lunar coast, keeping the people motivated, not motivated, but alert."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:76", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 18.648147, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. By that time … I guess when it started, I was the head of the Flight Director Office. And I didn’t work on the console on Skylab. And toward the end of that, I also became the Flight Control Division Chief, so I didn’t work on the console during Skylab. I kept … my biggest problem with Skylab was keeping Putty [Don L. Putt] and Neil Hutchinson apart."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can understand that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [There] was—I thought one time those two guys were going to have a fight in the MOCR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, you mentioned keeping people, during trans-lunar coast, keeping the people motivated, not motivated, but alert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about Skylab needs especially …"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.386830000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [There] was—I thought one time those two guys were going to have a fight in the MOCR."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you, you mentioned keeping people, during trans-lunar coast, keeping the people motivated, not motivated, but alert."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about Skylab needs especially …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Skylab. We were concerned about it before we got into it. You know, we thought that was something to really be concerned about and so there was a lot of emphasis put on that to try to look out for it and keep it from happening. But you know, it was such an intense period of planning, that there was a lot of activity going on in the Control Center trying to keep every minute of every day useful onboard. That helped a lot but there was still a lot of periods where it was just really, really boring in the Control Center. And you saw all kinds of peripheral things involved during those missions. People spend a lot of time working on some screen image, it was almost like an entertainment kind of thing. They would put some big image up on the big screens up there. It had very little to do with the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Flight Control Division in what, ’74?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.318700000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Alert, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was thinking about Skylab needs especially …"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Skylab. We were concerned about it before we got into it. You know, we thought that was something to really be concerned about and so there was a lot of emphasis put on that to try to look out for it and keep it from happening. But you know, it was such an intense period of planning, that there was a lot of activity going on in the Control Center trying to keep every minute of every day useful onboard. That helped a lot but there was still a lot of periods where it was just really, really boring in the Control Center. And you saw all kinds of peripheral things involved during those missions. People spend a lot of time working on some screen image, it was almost like an entertainment kind of thing. They would put some big image up on the big screens up there. It had very little to do with the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Flight Control Division in what, ’74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you move to Flight Control Division?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.243000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Skylab. We were concerned about it before we got into it. You know, we thought that was something to really be concerned about and so there was a lot of emphasis put on that to try to look out for it and keep it from happening. But you know, it was such an intense period of planning, that there was a lot of activity going on in the Control Center trying to keep every minute of every day useful onboard. That helped a lot but there was still a lot of periods where it was just really, really boring in the Control Center. And you saw all kinds of peripheral things involved during those missions. People spend a lot of time working on some screen image, it was almost like an entertainment kind of thing. They would put some big image up on the big screens up there. It had very little to do with the mission."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to Flight Control Division in what, ’74?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you move to Flight Control Division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’74, yes. Let’s see, the ASTP was in ’75. That was the flight, it was started about three years ahead of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they working on Shuttle when you moved into that position."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00172:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 20.270000000000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sorry?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you move to Flight Control Division?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "’74, yes. Let’s see, the ASTP was in ’75. That was the flight, it was started about three years ahead of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they working on Shuttle when you moved into that position."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes... In fact they were working Shuttle, some of the Shuttle analysis anyway … [T]hat was going on before we moved over to building 4. I remember some—Carl Huss and folks looking at aborts off of the Shuttle launch. Yea, that’s a whole other problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Being Flight Control Division lead, included in the Shuttle was the idea of the partially reusable spacecraft, how did that affect the flight control aspects of the missions, where part of the spacecraft came back and you used it again?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 72.55945343439505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was close to where my girlfriend lived. [Laughter] I had majored in mathematics and minored in physics, … after I was discharged from service and I came back to school at William and Mary, I asked a counselor what program could I take and graduate soonest, and they said mathematics. So, mathematics.\\n\\n Later on, the placement bureau told me there was an opening for mathematics majors at NACA [National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics] at Langley. So I went down and went to work there. That's how I happened to be there. I'd never built any model airplanes or dreamed of the Wright Brothers or any of those things. Like I say, my girlfriend lived in Williamsburg [Virginia]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely an incentive."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to work on my twentieth birthday. That's how I remember when I started work…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you began working in the Pilotless Aircraft Division [PARD]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't begin there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 77.28828159377228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went to work on my twentieth birthday. That's how I remember when I started work…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you began working in the Pilotless Aircraft Division [PARD]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't begin there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I began in the Stability Research Division [in] a small section that did theoretical work. That's where the mathematics came from, and I worked there for about a year. Then I transferred to the Pilotless Aircraft Research Division, and the circumstances of the transfer we won't go into. That's another story. But it doesn't have anything to do with this oral history here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's fine. And then you began working in the Pilotless Aircraft Division. What did you do there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 82.54253510419143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't begin there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I began in the Stability Research Division [in] a small section that did theoretical work. That's where the mathematics came from, and I worked there for about a year. Then I transferred to the Pilotless Aircraft Research Division, and the circumstances of the transfer we won't go into. That's another story. But it doesn't have anything to do with this oral history here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's fine. And then you began working in the Pilotless Aircraft Division. What did you do there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for probably the first year I continued the type of analytical or theoretical work I had done in the Stability Division. Then one day a fellow named [Carl A.] Sandahl came in and said, \"Hey, would you like to do some experimental work with the rockets?\" I said yes, and the fellow I was working for said, \"Okay, if you want to,\" and so I moved from doing theoretical work with my pencil and integral tables and started doing experimental work. It just happened. I was offered the opportunity, and I knew I was not the greatest mathematician in the world, I was not going to make a mark in mathematics, and the experimental work seemed a lot more exciting and interesting. So I went to shoot rockets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy shooting the rockets?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 101.90436432616225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for probably the first year I continued the type of analytical or theoretical work I had done in the Stability Division. Then one day a fellow named [Carl A.] Sandahl came in and said, \"Hey, would you like to do some experimental work with the rockets?\" I said yes, and the fellow I was working for said, \"Okay, if you want to,\" and so I moved from doing theoretical work with my pencil and integral tables and started doing experimental work. It just happened. I was offered the opportunity, and I knew I was not the greatest mathematician in the world, I was not going to make a mark in mathematics, and the experimental work seemed a lot more exciting and interesting. So I went to shoot rockets."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you enjoy shooting the rockets?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. It was the most interesting part of my total career, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what parts of the rocket work did you enjoy specifically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 106.56040480684695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much so. It was the most interesting part of my total career, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what parts of the rocket work did you enjoy specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a number of projects. At that time the ballistic missile projects were under way, and there was a need for information at very high speeds and very high temperatures, and we were trying to achieve those high speeds by stacking rockets, essentially, staging them. We didn't have huge rockets like we have today. In fact, most of the rockets we got were leftovers from the Army and Navy, and what we would do was not use them as they did, but we would stack them on top of one another, each one adding more speed. So for a number of years there we worked diligently at seeing how fast we could go and therefore make measurements at the higher speeds.\\n\\n Also, we did other work related to the shapes of ballistic missiles. Ballistic missiles started out—people thought they might be streamlined and long and sharp, and then as people studied and learned, they finally decided that [a] very blunt nose like Apollo was the way you were probably going to have to go in order to handle this heating problem.\\n\\n But anyway, developing and building these rockets, I think we finally got up to five stages of rockets, and these we launched from up at Wallop's Island off the Virginia coast. We had some considerable success in that area, and there's no question that that certainly contributed or was an underpinning to the work that many of us later did in the space program. That was the basics. So I stayed there for—I was with NACA ten years total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And while you were there working on rockets, Sputnik launched, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 117.28933867427438, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what parts of the rocket work did you enjoy specifically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, there was a number of projects. At that time the ballistic missile projects were under way, and there was a need for information at very high speeds and very high temperatures, and we were trying to achieve those high speeds by stacking rockets, essentially, staging them. We didn't have huge rockets like we have today. In fact, most of the rockets we got were leftovers from the Army and Navy, and what we would do was not use them as they did, but we would stack them on top of one another, each one adding more speed. So for a number of years there we worked diligently at seeing how fast we could go and therefore make measurements at the higher speeds.\\n\\n Also, we did other work related to the shapes of ballistic missiles. Ballistic missiles started out—people thought they might be streamlined and long and sharp, and then as people studied and learned, they finally decided that [a] very blunt nose like Apollo was the way you were probably going to have to go in order to handle this heating problem.\\n\\n But anyway, developing and building these rockets, I think we finally got up to five stages of rockets, and these we launched from up at Wallop's Island off the Virginia coast. We had some considerable success in that area, and there's no question that that certainly contributed or was an underpinning to the work that many of us later did in the space program. That was the basics. So I stayed there for—I was with NACA ten years total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And while you were there working on rockets, Sputnik launched, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What was that, October '57, I believe. Yes. I was there … and it was pretty interesting. I thought that was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the people you were working with, was that of any special interest?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 140.23375144972144, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. What was that, October '57, I believe. Yes. I was there … and it was pretty interesting. I thought that was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the people you were working with, was that of any special interest?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It was of particular interest, because, you know, the U.S. had a satellite program. Our interest, frankly, as far as our work goes, was more related to supporting the ballistic missile program, which operated in the same speeds and had many of the same type of technical problems, reentering the atmosphere and so forth. So our work was more directed towards the ballistic missile program, but technically there was great overlap. So we had a technical and professional interest in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In March, the next year, you were chosen to be an assistant to Dr. James [R.] Killian [Special Assistant to the President for Science and Technology]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. … Dr. Killian requested NACA to provide him with a technical assistant …, to support him in things related to space and missiles, so I was transferred from NACA to his office in March. Now that you remind me, it was March. Because I got up there, and it was the middle of a snowstorm. That's how I remember. I got to Washington at ten o'clock at night and didn't really know where I was, on a train—you remember trains—and it was snowing like the dickens. You couldn't get a taxicab. So that was the beginning of my career in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 155.81527938857937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. It was of particular interest, because, you know, the U.S. had a satellite program. Our interest, frankly, as far as our work goes, was more related to supporting the ballistic missile program, which operated in the same speeds and had many of the same type of technical problems, reentering the atmosphere and so forth. So our work was more directed towards the ballistic missile program, but technically there was great overlap. So we had a technical and professional interest in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In March, the next year, you were chosen to be an assistant to Dr. James [R.] Killian [Special Assistant to the President for Science and Technology]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. … Dr. Killian requested NACA to provide him with a technical assistant …, to support him in things related to space and missiles, so I was transferred from NACA to his office in March. Now that you remind me, it was March. Because I got up there, and it was the middle of a snowstorm. That's how I remember. I got to Washington at ten o'clock at night and didn't really know where I was, on a train—you remember trains—and it was snowing like the dickens. You couldn't get a taxicab. So that was the beginning of my career in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That made me right then decide I wanted to get out as soon as I could. [Laughter] I might have even been subpoenaed by now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were in this assistant position—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 27, "return_to_go": 168.6836437650882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. … Dr. Killian requested NACA to provide him with a technical assistant …, to support him in things related to space and missiles, so I was transferred from NACA to his office in March. Now that you remind me, it was March. Because I got up there, and it was the middle of a snowstorm. That's how I remember. I got to Washington at ten o'clock at night and didn't really know where I was, on a train—you remember trains—and it was snowing like the dickens. You couldn't get a taxicab. So that was the beginning of my career in Washington."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That made me right then decide I wanted to get out as soon as I could. [Laughter] I might have even been subpoenaed by now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So while you were in this assistant position—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't his assistant; I was a technical assistant. He had about ten or fifteen people that worked in different areas, disarmament and other things, and I was the technical assistant for space and missiles. He was also chairman of the President's Science Advisory Committee. That committee had … panels. For example, it had a space and missiles panel made up of eminent scientists from around the country. I served as secretary to that panel. I was not on the panel, I was secretary to the panel, and overall helped him in anything he had to do. Every time there was going to be a press briefing at the White House in the morning, which I guess there was every day, and something in the news related to missiles, they'd come over and say, \"Hey, instantly write some set of information on this missile so we'll have it there in case somebody asks us about it,\" so you did that. You did lots of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make recommendations to Dr. Killian?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 91, "return_to_go": 216.4110209573205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, one of them which wasn't that far out was to put the X-15 on top of an Atlas missile as a way of getting it into space, and I won't say that didn't have some thought to it. I think there would have been some great difficulties with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in that technical assistant position, and then you went back to Langley as part of the Space Task Group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was offered the opportunity to stay in the new NASA headquarters, and I didn't see myself as a headquarters type, and I decided I wanted to go back and, frankly, rejoin the people I had worked with before, particularly Dr. [Robert R.] Gilruth and [Maxime A.] Faget and others, and that seemed like that would be interesting work, so I went back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do when you got back to the Space Task Group?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Space Task Group was divided into three organizations at the time. I don't know what it was called, Space Flight Division or something. It was basically the Engineering Division. That was Faget's. Then Operations. I guess Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews might have run it initially. I'm not sure about that. Then there was a third, Support—administration and contracts and other things. A fellow named Charlie [Charles H.] Zimmerman ran that. Gilruth was head of it. Charlie [Charles J.] Donlan was his deputy assistant. When I came back I became Max's assistant or deputy or whatever word we were using then for helper. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what was it like working with Mr. Faget?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.536600000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was Roy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I wrote the book that they looked at to do the interview on you. I did the research on you for this project, and I saw his name in conjunction with you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I think Roy is director of Stennis now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Actually, I think he told me that he had retired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is an outstanding gentleman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seemed really nice."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00474:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 18.374000000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I think Roy is director of Stennis now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Actually, I think he told me that he had retired."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is an outstanding gentleman."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seemed really nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is really nice, and when we were over there, they had instigated a little science program. It wasn't Earth Observations, but it was kind of applications of space stuff. I guess one part of that which you might remember that one of the people was working on, was this business of insects or amoebas or something that would eat up oil spills. You might have heard that, whatever it was. But they had started that little organization, and subsequently, that little organization, which he ran at the time, was integrated with our Earth Resources Laboratory. I think they're one and the same today. I don't know what they call it now, but he was probably one of the more outstanding people I met over there, very nice and smart.\\n\\n If you ever see him again, ask him about a fellow named Balch, B-A-L-C-H. I don't imagine you'll run across him. We won't go into Mr. Balch. That's another story. We don't have enough tape for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have one final question. You worked so many years in the space industry, what would you like to see in the future?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.84547168282662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hardly came up, but that's true. Of course, we convinced Jack that the Marines really is just a subset of the Navy. So actually that was noticed and we were pleased to have all come from the same service. But since my total time in the military was three years, it hardly compared to the career that both Alan and Jack have. But that was a minor unifying factor, and we had a chance to joke about it from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, you guys had been working together for several years before you were actually named to a crew. How did you find out that the three of you were going to be the second manned crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember the answer for sure. I could be mistaken about this, but it was perhaps two years or a little more before launch, and there had been a number of us in the Skylab group who were focused on getting it done. From just a personal standpoint, I knew that there was Joe Kerwin, Ed [Edward G.] Gibson, and myself who were scientist astronauts. There were three flights, so there was a pretty good chance that we were each going to have a chance to fly. We didn't know which one exactly.\\n\\n So Deke Slayton, Alan Shepard probably made either the decision, or had the largest factor in making the decision. They, I believe, spoke with the commanders about it and may have allowed them some leeway or approval long after the decision was made. But Alan, I'm almost certain, was the one who mentioned it to me, and said, \"How would you like to come fly with Jack and myself?\" So obviously I was very enthusiastic. I can't remember the details about it, but I believe that's how it came about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That sounds like a—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Typical, yes, I guess, is the word I'm looking for. Once you're on a crew, how does the training and the types of activities you're doing change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 39.562310719539035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Typical."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Typical, yes, I guess, is the word I'm looking for. Once you're on a crew, how does the training and the types of activities you're doing change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It becomes more focused, because then there are other things that you can begin to look for. For example, the first flight had extra tasks associated with getting the station set up. They had other tasks eventually because of the problems that Skylab had that they didn't know about. So that was not a difference at the training stage. But theirs was a shorter mission, ours was a little longer mission, and so you had to tailor your training to the specifics of a flight. Although the basic solar physics training, the basic biomedical training, was the same. You then needed to be into more carefully delineating exactly what the flight program was going to be for the individual flights. So it allowed you to then focus on your individual flight and see more precisely how you would do things differently based upon the different tasks that you would then be called on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you were the middle mission, the fifty—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty-nine and a half, we'll call it. We were out about sixty days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was going to be a record duration, so obviously the medical effects on your body and such were going to be an important thing to be studying. How did you go about establishing the baseline and going through experiments to see how this affects you physiologically?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.681867154782918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What's his last name? Not Kinzler. How's he spell his last name, Jack?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, Kinzler was the one—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kinzler. I couldn't remember how he spelled his name, yes, who got his fishing poles out and built it here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Interesting thing, I was just talking about this at an astronomical meeting in Huntsville a couple of weeks ago. One of the fellows said, \"Oh, yes, I helped design that.\" So I said, \"Okay.\" [Laughter] I know he really didn't. I guess we probably ought to take this off the record. But as far as I'm concerned, everybody had a hand in it. The more people who think they did it, the better, even though I know the facts of it were just as you've mentioned to me here. But that wasn't a lazy period. People all over the country were helping."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Once they figure out a solution, these ten days with all this work, they send Pete Conrad's guys up to fix it, were you then following their crew closely in the developments going on with them and the EVAs [extravehicular activities] and such, too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 37.62446956018931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other EVAs, let's see. Jack had to change out some gyros. They had various other kinds of experiment works to do on the outside, bring back the cameras and so forth. But the one I just described is the one that sticks in my mind because of the difficult that I had putting those poles together.\\n\\n The other two EVAs went off more or less as advertised, although we did have some other activities, like, oh, for example, some of the windows, the aperture doors on the telescopes had to be pinned open. They were getting sticky. So we had to use a little wrench to take some of the nuts off and open the doors permanently, so it wouldn't remained closed. Some of those washers probably stayed in orbit for about another seven or eight years, because I couldn't keep six or eight washer in my hand, and they eventually floated away and probably burned up over Australia somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What an appropriate fate, given the rest of Skylab.\\n\\n You mentioned that this was all a month or so before you actually had to launch, and your flight was actually moved up several weeks because of some problems aboard the workshops, some mechanical issues. Do you remember what was going on there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember that. [Laughter] Ours was advanced, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any of that. I've forgotten that. Thanks for reminding me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they were concerned that some of the new mechanical systems weren't going to hold up for—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 40.69385506687701, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't even remember that. [Laughter] Ours was advanced, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember any of that. I've forgotten that. Thanks for reminding me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think they were concerned that some of the new mechanical systems weren't going to hold up for—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they thought that they needed some people up there to attend to the control moment gyros, now that you've reminded me. I hadn't thought about it for decades. But there were a few problems they were concerned about, and so that was not a particular problem, as I recall. We thought we could handle that part all right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you can describe for me the days moving up to your launch and then the day of launch itself, the kind of preparations you went through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.605738931410716, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd forgotten that. I did not remember that part. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it sounds like there plenty of merriment to go around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try to do all of those, but you can't, but it does give a good feeling among the crew. I think it actually serves a very good purpose to pull those kinds of jokes, simple things that everyone can enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you then say that was characteristic of the relationship between your crew and the flight controllers' relationship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm still well acquainted with Neil Hutchinson and Gene and the other flight controllers. We talk whenever we get a chance. Neil often calls me for dinner when he comes through Huntsville, Alabama, where I now live. So I still see Neil from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He stops by here every once in a while, sits down and talks with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.450821034900795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You try to do all of those, but you can't, but it does give a good feeling among the crew. I think it actually serves a very good purpose to pull those kinds of jokes, simple things that everyone can enjoy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you then say that was characteristic of the relationship between your crew and the flight controllers' relationship?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm still well acquainted with Neil Hutchinson and Gene and the other flight controllers. We talk whenever we get a chance. Neil often calls me for dinner when he comes through Huntsville, Alabama, where I now live. So I still see Neil from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He stops by here every once in a while, sits down and talks with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything from your flight that you found particularly surprising or eventful or unanticipated from your ground preparations?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 31.61202337211199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm still well acquainted with Neil Hutchinson and Gene and the other flight controllers. We talk whenever we get a chance. Neil often calls me for dinner when he comes through Huntsville, Alabama, where I now live. So I still see Neil from time to time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He stops by here every once in a while, sits down and talks with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anything from your flight that you found particularly surprising or eventful or unanticipated from your ground preparations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not too much. Actually, I think we had properly anticipated almost everything. I did mention this one about the difficulty putting together the twin poles, and obviously we hadn't anticipated the RCS failures, reaction control. But basically the operations on board went pretty much as planned. We were pleasantly surprised to have a very active sun, even though it were nearing the time of low sunspot activity. So those were some kind of pleasant surprises, but not the kind of answer I think your question was intended.\\n\\n So, no, I think we were not terribly surprised by events. We had properly planned and considered most of the things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When we were talking about training, you mentioned some of the corollary experiments, some of these, I guess, hodgepodge things that they'd lumped together under that, one being testing the manned maneuvering unit [MMU] prototype. Can you tell me a little bit about some those and that one particularly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 28.560685692215632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It would have been amazingly useful, because we got so much benefit from extending the flights from one, two, and three months. We've had to wait now for Mir to come along and buy the time from the Russians. Cooperative work is fine and good, but, still, we should have had that data available with good quantitative biomedical measurements made of six- and twelve-month durations up on the “Skylab B.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By the time you came down from your mission, Skylab's fate wasn't yet sealed, but what were the tasks you were doing after your mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Rather shortly after I came back from Skylab, a matter of months, it was offered that I should go to the Science and Applications Directorate as Deputy Director. So I accepted that position and began to work in the physical sciences area outside the Astronaut Office, although while you're still at JSC, it's never really very clear whether you're keeping a foot back in the Astronaut Office or have it fully over here in another discipline. I preferred it that way, because I wanted to come back to the Astronaut Office at the appropriate time, when the time was right for another kind of a flight, as it eventually did with an Orbiter flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think it was likely that you would get another flight once the Space Shuttle came on line?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was fairly likely. We didn't have such a large number of people in the office by that point. I guess we'd selected some people in 1978, but that was the time that I came back. So we still had a pretty small office, and coming back in with experience, I thought, and the fact that my research background, my professional interests or scientific interests were related to the objectives of [Spacelab], I thought there was a pretty good chance."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As someone in Science and Applications, what role did you see for the Space Shuttle in doing these types of experiments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.928238260926793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spacelab I, if this is your question, the whole mission was oriented towards making clear that the Spacelab, the laboratory that fit in the payload bay of the Shuttle, was useful for the whole range of scientific disciplines. So we had about six different disciplines represented, so very interdisciplinary, which is, well, my interest is interdisciplinary work. So not only a lot of biomedical work, but also astronomy, fluid physics, materials processing, atmospheric sciences, all were represented with differing experiments.\\n\\n So I found that quite interesting, and I think it does relate to the fact that you need an interdisciplinary background to try to conduct experiments for all of these PIs [principal investigators], because you obviously can't have a representative for each PI there, and you need somebody who has got some degree of competency in all of the variety of areas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Spacelab then your primary focus once you moved over to Science Applications?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes, I didn't come back—well, I took one year out. I actually was the Deputy Director there for about two years, then I took a year off for, like a sabbatical, only they called it another thing, within NASA for a one-year trip back to the university. I went back to Stanford for a year. Then when I came back, they'd combined the Physical and Life Sciences Directorate and I was Deputy for Physical Sciences there for a year or so, until it became time to select crews for Spacelab, and that's when I went back to the Astronaut Office. So I went back from that position specifically for Spacelab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When and how did you find out that you were scheduled for the first Spacelab mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably George [W. S.] Abbey, but I can't remember. Either George Abbey or John [W.] Young was the Commander of the Spacelab flight. I can't remember which."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of experiments were you going to do on this first mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.3004667501, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think so. It was a little hard to tell when you came back, but when we came down and landed, of course, like a glider, I remember going in the van, being picked up by George Abbey and he said, \"Well, the science community is very happy,\" or very pleased with how things went. So that was the clue we had. But when George was willing to tell us that, I was very pleased."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that's certainly a positive experience when you can get his okay that something went well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After your flight, you moved into the Space Station Program as a program scientist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you explain what that job involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00193:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 34.778296389000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After your flight, you moved into the Space Station Program as a program scientist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you explain what that job involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had the responsibility for the principal program office here at the center at that time. In fact, Neil Hutchinson was the head of the Space Station Program here in JSC at that time. We were simply making preliminary plans for the conduct of science and looking at preliminary ideas. There were several different alternative configurations that the Space Station should look at and might be designed to follow. One of Neil's job, principally, I think, was to decide which of these options were going to be best. My job was to advise on the conduct of science on these various options, how would you do it and so forth.\\n\\n Also at that time, one of my other—perhaps my second big complaint about NASA decisions has to do with the decision that was finally made to put the Space Station up with Shuttle, which, of course, now we're doing. It's only going to take about another forty-five Shuttle flights to get there. We could have put it up with the other two of those Saturn Vs, for example or another alternative heavy-lift vehicle which could be a Shuttle derivative, very much more quickly, very much less expensively had we done that.\\n\\n I tried to convince them, even though it's a little bit out of my main line of responsibility, that the conduct of the program would be much better had they used heavy-lift vehicle and we could, of course, have done the science earlier, as well. So from that standpoint, it was a connection to my real responsibilities. That wasn't accepted either. But that's the kind of work that I was doing when the program office was here at JSC."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Space Station really kicked off when in 1984 Reagan said, \"Let's build a station in ten years.\" How do you think his pledge compared with that of Kennedy, and really the results coming out of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.812240067850226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, that's a four year college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a four year college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "California, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your major?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.124711186500251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a four year college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "California, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "History. Latin American history specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And where had you grown up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.471901318333613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "California, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "History. Latin American history specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Tucson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And went to high school in Tucson?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.857668131481791, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "History. Latin American history specifically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And where had you grown up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Tucson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And went to high school in Tucson?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Went to high school in Tucson. Went to Catalina High School, uh, followed my older sister to Pomona. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And talk a little bit about your family setting, your, uh, siblings."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.102065749290432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, he was struggling to make a living as a contractor. His background was in, uh, archeology before, well, starting in 1929. And his father before him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And during that time as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but he had, my father didn't have a degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was an amateur archeologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.291377922217867, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and he was with his father on several digs in Nevada and Arizona and, um, during the Depression. It was all Depression work in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, he developed quite a reputation for himself as a first class field man in archeology, with or without a degree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when he came to Tucson. Well, prior to coming to Tucson, he had worked in this area for the University of Arizona, at Snaketown, at Ventana Cave, at University Indian ruins, um, at Pueblo Grinding. Um, so he had, the point of all this is that, uh, as we were growing up, my parents' friends were all of that, um, uh, group of people in the 40s and 50s that were archeologists, anthropologists, ecologists. Um, so our house was full of people of that ilk growing up. So I came by the interest in other cultures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. In, during your high school years, what kind of extracurricular activities do you do? What kind of travel?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.470836941009711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So when he came to Tucson. Well, prior to coming to Tucson, he had worked in this area for the University of Arizona, at Snaketown, at Ventana Cave, at University Indian ruins, um, at Pueblo Grinding. Um, so he had, the point of all this is that, uh, as we were growing up, my parents' friends were all of that, um, uh, group of people in the 40s and 50s that were archeologists, anthropologists, ecologists. Um, so our house was full of people of that ilk growing up. So I came by the interest in other cultures."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. In, during your high school years, what kind of extracurricular activities do you do? What kind of travel?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, not a lot of travel."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, a little bit in Mexico. Um, I was a, you know, a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On digs or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.050415976555199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, a little bit in Mexico. Um, I was a, you know, a."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On digs or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. Just little, little travels."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we didn't really travel much because dad's, uh, business kind of kept him tied to the, tied to the phone, so to speak. So, you know, I chased girls and I was a gymnast. I was on a gymnastics team at Catalina, and just a pretty typical, um, uh, interests in those days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you learn Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.901805180459803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took Spanish in, in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took Spanish in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spent a year between my junior and senior years kicking around part of the time in Mexico. And I really learned Spanish then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so on your own."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.668672422733117, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I took Spanish in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I spent a year between my junior and senior years kicking around part of the time in Mexico. And I really learned Spanish then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, so on your own."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I spent three months hitching around Mexico in 1963. And so by the time I got to Mexico after, after college, I was fluent in Spanish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When, when you first went into college, so what kind of goal had you set yourself?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.0930840157493, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a liberal arts college. It looked great. It had lots of different things. I was, you know, a bright kid in high school. So in, in the late '50s, what you did then was you became an engineer to help, you know, battle the Russkies and all that stuff. So I went to Pomona in a, in a five year program with Caltech. I was going to be three years in Pomona, two years in Caltech, and come out a fancy pants engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my first year at Pomona, I took my first, uh, uh, good history course and a required course in comparative religion, and it totally blew my mind. I didn't know that thinking about this stuff was a legitimate activity, and I loved it. So I switched to history after my first year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I took all kinds of, I minored in geology because it was interesting to me. But Pomona was a fantastic place, and it had lots of really, really good professors. And so I took a lot of different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall when you first became aware of the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.969723855986462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And this was when Vietnam was kind of heating up, is that right?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so, uh, these, I remember one of the Brazilian students telling us, uh, a group of us talking about Peace Corps, that he detested the Peace Corps because it was counter-revolutionary. They were giving the peasants hope and there was no hope. So they were basically postponing the inevitable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that caught my eye, caught my ear. But, you know, I really didn't think about it much. I was kind of, uh, just going through the usual college thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as you, as you approached graduation, you must have been faced with the issue of the draft."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.490357957607774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the Navajo reservation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a laborer and then as a technician. So, and so I naturally fell into a job after college in archeology. And for some reason, I got a deferment for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was a field, uh, big foreman at the University of Arizona Field School that summer right after college, and then my year in Mexico started after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't enrolled as a student during that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.65595328623086, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a laborer and then as a technician. So, and so I naturally fell into a job after college in archeology. And for some reason, I got a deferment for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was a field, uh, big foreman at the University of Arizona Field School that summer right after college, and then my year in Mexico started after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't enrolled as a student during that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just as an archeologist?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.201968513162273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So there was an article in the National Geographic about Snaketown. My father sent me a copy, a copy of the, of the magazine. And in that same issue was an article about Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, ha."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there were photographs of these incredible sailing canoes and these beautiful women and these tattooed guys who, just great. And it mentioned that Peace Corps was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had already applied and been accepted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had applied?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.298996588699962, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually had been accepted to go to Kenya on a, in a teaching program. So that was '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early '67 was when I was accepted. Um, so I wrote them and said, do you have any programs in Micronesia that I would qualify for? And they wrote right back and said, sure, we have an agriculture program, and we're sending a bunch of people out. It'll be very timely. And you can go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you came from an absolutely nonagricultural background."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.9988850985555136, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I actually had been accepted to go to Kenya on a, in a teaching program. So that was '67."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early '67 was when I was accepted. Um, so I wrote them and said, do you have any programs in Micronesia that I would qualify for? And they wrote right back and said, sure, we have an agriculture program, and we're sending a bunch of people out. It'll be very timely. And you can go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you came from an absolutely nonagricultural background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nonagricultural background. I think one of my strengths was the cross-cultural experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, you certainly are a strong candidate."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.776538998395015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Early '67 was when I was accepted. Um, so I wrote them and said, do you have any programs in Micronesia that I would qualify for? And they wrote right back and said, sure, we have an agriculture program, and we're sending a bunch of people out. It'll be very timely. And you can go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course, you came from an absolutely nonagricultural background."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nonagricultural background. I think one of my strengths was the cross-cultural experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, you certainly are a strong candidate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Familiarity with simple living and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't tempted to assign you to Latin America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 8.640598887105572, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nonagricultural background. I think one of my strengths was the cross-cultural experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Yeah. Well, you certainly are a strong candidate."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Familiarity with simple living and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't tempted to assign you to Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and it may be, I mean, I have no idea what was in their minds. I was in Mexico at the time. This was all just letters back and forth. So when they said, yeah, we have a program in Micronesia, I didn't even really have much of a clue of what was going on in Micronesia, except."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the National Geographic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.045109874561747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Familiarity with simple living and stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they didn't, they weren't tempted to assign you to Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and it may be, I mean, I have no idea what was in their minds. I was in Mexico at the time. This was all just letters back and forth. So when they said, yeah, we have a program in Micronesia, I didn't even really have much of a clue of what was going on in Micronesia, except."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the National Geographic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the National Geographic thing, you know. So we, so I was accepted. And when we got done with the job in, in Mexico, that was in June, I think, or July of '67. About a month later, I was in San Francisco shipping out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, all right, so you're accepted in the Peace Corps and where did you train then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4945665272908295, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, and it may be, I mean, I have no idea what was in their minds. I was in Mexico at the time. This was all just letters back and forth. So when they said, yeah, we have a program in Micronesia, I didn't even really have much of a clue of what was going on in Micronesia, except."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had the National Geographic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had the National Geographic thing, you know. So we, so I was accepted. And when we got done with the job in, in Mexico, that was in June, I think, or July of '67. About a month later, I was in San Francisco shipping out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, all right, so you're accepted in the Peace Corps and where did you train then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So by then they had shifted over."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.548847564556579, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We trained in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So by then they had shifted over."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the second group to train in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm so glad for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your fifth day in the Peace Corps, you're in Micronesia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.054275071729531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were the second group to train in country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm so glad for it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your fifth day in the Peace Corps, you're in Micronesia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Micronesia, yeah. We spent about a week in San Francisco, you know, weeding out the lunatics and the terrorists and whatnot. And then, and then we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many, how many, about how many were in the group at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.587482951618012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, well, there were, there were separate groups for each of the six districts of Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Chuuk district, there were I think, um, 13 or 14, 13 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.097203279575568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the Chuuk district, there were I think, um, 13 or 14, 13 people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.663559199528409, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, ten of them, I think, were agriculture. And a couple of them were in small business or something like that. But it was specifically the general thing was agriculture. So each, each, uh, district had this. The island that we trained on was in the big lagoon in, in Chuuk, and it was in, on the island of Udot. And Udot just happened to have six villages. So they designated each village as a different district. So the volunteers that were heading for one district or another would be in the same village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a commercial flight. It was a commercial flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been long."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9595102216982316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they'd get their language training and whatnot down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So now, was it a charter flight or how did you get to Micronesia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a commercial flight. It was a commercial flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been long."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we flew to Hawaii, then we flew to, and didn't spend any time in Hawaii. Flew to Guam and, and then. Gosh, I don't remember if it was a, I think it was a, it was a 727 that took us to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the reaction of family, friends when you made the decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.253230743447359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the farthest thing from the desert I could imagine. And, uh, and isolated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just seemed like perfect. And you know, the, my friends, you know, I really didn't talk to a lot of people about it because I was in Mexico. And then I came back for a month and I was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so I didn't really talk to people until I come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was pretty much an individual thing for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.50358971494151, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just seemed like perfect. And you know, the, my friends, you know, I really didn't talk to a lot of people about it because I was in Mexico. And then I came back for a month and I was gone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so I didn't really talk to people until I come back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was pretty much an individual thing for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall, uh, meeting the other volunteers? You know what your impression was? You know, now you join. Now here's another."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3231683332531, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The rest of them?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, um, in San Francisco, it was pretty much a blur."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, here I, I remember. The most memorable, um, event on those 3 or 4 days we were there was when we were getting on the bus to go to the airport, and we were waiting around in our usual waiting mode. And a lovely young woman came up to me, I'd never seen her before in my life, and said, where, you look kind of pensive, where are you going? And I said, I'm going off to Micronesia. And we just struck up this amazing conversation. I would have stayed with her had she asked me to, and she would have gone with me had I asked her. It was just love at first sight kind of thing. And then off to the edges of the world, you know? So that, that seemed quite appropriate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Ships that pass in the night."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.1867878371098763, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I did have a girlfriend from college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after college we had gone to have our individual adventures and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3186531523443072, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after college we had gone to have our individual adventures and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4651701692714525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and I think in retrospect, she was not particularly thrilled that I was going off but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She wasn't tempted to try to join at the same time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would guess maybe five out of the 75 total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the 75 then is broken into six."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.6279668547460582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not initially. No, no. She was, she was in Alaska and Seattle while I was in Mexico. So we really weren't in real close contact then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you get to Micronesia now, uh, I'm guessing that most of the group did not have an agricultural background?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I would guess maybe five out of the 75 total."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the 75 then is broken into six."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's, the breakdown was according to where you would be assigned once you became a volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0098356231432817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's, the breakdown was according to where you would be assigned once you became a volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In terms of the district, but not within the district."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That turned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now is that six different language groups?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.233150692381424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In terms of the district, but not within the district."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That turned out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now is that six different language groups?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, six totally different language groups."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So then it was important. Uh, all right, describe your experience in getting to the village where you're going to train."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.403674275844267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, you know, screeched to a halt with mud flying everywhere. And we're ushered almost directly, uh, into a landing craft which took us across the lagoon to the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dumped us on the beach. We all got out on the beach."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you really know you're in a different part of the world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.66896334135016, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We're in a different part of the world. And of course, on the, on. So people were getting to know each other a little bit on the landing craft. Some people were scared to death. Some people thought it was really fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was in the latter group there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.187737045944623, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I was in the latter group there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.653041162160692, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And then to get to our village, we walked. So I can't remember now who, who met us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How large was the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, it's not that. It's more like five miles by two miles maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. So it's a relatively small."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.170045735734102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gosh. Well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's like 20 by 15, it's not like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, it's not that. It's more like five miles by two miles maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Okay. So it's a relatively small."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's small, yeah, it's a small. It's a quote unquote high island and it's got some elevation a little bit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had Peace Corps been in Micronesia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.714827235584567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Peace Corps would provide the food, of course, and pay them a certain amount. I don't know what it was. Um, pretty simple living conditions. Um, it was a cement floor house, about 4 or 5 rooms, kind of small rooms divided up with plywood."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we slept on pandanus mats, which weeded out several people right off the bat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I happened to live in one of the houses that an existing Peace Corps volunteer who was a, what do they call it? A cultural advisor or something like that. He lived, he was in the same house I was. And that was also my good fortune, because he was from the very islands that those pictures in the National Geographic were from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, ha ha."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.127585817316185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we slept on pandanus mats, which weeded out several people right off the bat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I happened to live in one of the houses that an existing Peace Corps volunteer who was a, what do they call it? A cultural advisor or something like that. He lived, he was in the same house I was. And that was also my good fortune, because he was from the very islands that those pictures in the National Geographic were from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, ha ha."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea. I didn't know Truk from the Marshalls from the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right, right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9846738485385, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had no idea. I didn't know Truk from the Marshalls from the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Right, right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here's my housemate who was from those islands and knew those guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and, uh, we hit it off, uh, he and one other fellow who was from Chicago, of all places. And, and we determined early on that I should be going to the outer islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's stick with training now."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4274153872649995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So here's my housemate who was from those islands and knew those guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and, uh, we hit it off, uh, he and one other fellow who was from Chicago, of all places. And, and we determined early on that I should be going to the outer islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So let's stick with training now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you, your living conditions were reasonable. And, uh, who's running the whole show at the village you go to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.739141030779521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and it was, um, it was taught by a native language, a native speaker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, uh, Trukese as a second language, routine, you know, just repeating, repeating, repeating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And our families that we lived with delighted in testing us and playing with us, those of us who were brave enough to go out and mingle around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even though you were in this, uh, specially built housing, you had a family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:231", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.26571225642169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, uh, Trukese as a second language, routine, you know, just repeating, repeating, repeating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And our families that we lived with delighted in testing us and playing with us, those of us who were brave enough to go out and mingle around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So even though you were in this, uh, specially built housing, you had a family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it was like the houses weren't right next to each other. They were, I think there were two in the village we were in. So there must have been 6 or 7 of us in each house. And the family that was taking care of us was right next door in their traditional house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's the family you were referring to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.5008793289156666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Yeah, it was like the houses weren't right next to each other. They were, I think there were two in the village we were in. So there must have been 6 or 7 of us in each house. And the family that was taking care of us was right next door in their traditional house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's the family you were referring to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was a small village, so we got to know a lot of people. And in fact, we got to know people in the other villages, too, because we did a lot of walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Micronesia, was it independent or a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.112088143239629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. It was a small village, so we got to know a lot of people. And in fact, we got to know people in the other villages, too, because we did a lot of walking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, Micronesia, was it independent or a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a U.S. Trust Territory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's what I thought."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.0889977077032444, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a U.S. Trust Territory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. That's what I thought."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole deal here was that it was the last trust territory from World War II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Russians were making hay in the UN about the imperialists and colonialists and all that stuff. So they dumped hundreds and hundreds of volunteers into Micronesia, I presume to prepare the natives for independence or for, for their next, um, for their next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next stage."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4322196752258276, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The whole deal here was that it was the last trust territory from World War II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Russians were making hay in the UN about the imperialists and colonialists and all that stuff. So they dumped hundreds and hundreds of volunteers into Micronesia, I presume to prepare the natives for independence or for, for their next, um, for their next."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The next stage."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Relationship. Uh, I didn't know it at the time, but, um, since then it's become quite clear that the plan was not that Micronesia would become independent, but it would become, uh, it would formalize its relationship somehow with the U.S."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like Puerto Rico maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.4735523665649213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like maybe Puerto Rico, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but it didn't work out real well for the Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't aware of that at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.748391518405468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maybe Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but it didn't work out real well for the Philippines."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You weren't aware of that at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not right at the time. I became aware of it during the course of my two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During, during the training phase, did anyone define a role for you other than the agricultural role that's coming? You know, you're here to help prepare them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.719846850183613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The language stuff was good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the cultural, so-called cultural training we got was really, um, just hanging out in the villages. Basically we lived in a village for ten months, ten weeks?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And got a lot of language training. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you being tested on the language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9109409446484589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the cultural, so-called cultural training we got was really, um, just hanging out in the villages. Basically we lived in a village for ten months, ten weeks?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And got a lot of language training. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you being tested on the language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, I don't think so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the sense was that once you got to your work station, you would have, you would be working in Turkese [Trukese]?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.621318168242056, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9125757424911733, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, yeah. It didn't seem like there was pressure. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did most people speak some form of pidgin English?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.236195269434637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mean, at least on the outer islands, that was pretty assumed because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's, I mean, you're up against the gun sort of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In a way, yeah. It didn't seem like there was pressure. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did most people speak some form of pidgin English?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. I don't."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.932472594779205, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he spoke a different dialect, but he could, he could fake the lagoon dialect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we learned the lagoon dialect, the dialect of the, of the big lagoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.480525105310228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we learned the lagoon dialect, the dialect of the, of the big lagoon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, the people you might deal with?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.089472339233587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, no, not very many people in the village spoke English."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So actually the, the overall administrative structure of Micronesia at that time was under the, was under the control of the United States government. At what level were there Micronesians who were running things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In other words, the people you might deal with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a Department of Agriculture?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.746875636808761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was. And there was, uh, the guy that was running that who came in new while we were there was Hawaiian."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost all the major departments were run by Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a district administrator, and he had his whole bureaucracy and the hospital running the shipping, running the airport, all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let's jump back to the training again. Uh, there was technical training because clearly you were not an agriculturist."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.385417374231956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost all the major departments were run by Americans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a district administrator, and he had his whole bureaucracy and the hospital running the shipping, running the airport, all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, let's jump back to the training again. Uh, there was technical training because clearly you were not an agriculturist."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about what the training was."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.19995106435345, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's not enough room for that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're individual trees and individual families own that tree, that tree, that tree."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's their productive source. So, um, so the plan was and it was, it was from on high. It wasn't anything I think that developed from the grassroots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't community developed?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.432038351053642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that's their productive source. So, um, so the plan was and it was, it was from on high. It wasn't anything I think that developed from the grassroots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It wasn't community developed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think much was community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's really a long term thing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.03559816783738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think much was community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's really a long term thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long term thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you're working in a nursery."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.595109075374866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, was to, was to get these volunteers out there, show us volunteers how to, how to plant a coconut nursery so we could get these fancy-pants coconuts from Yap, put them in a little nursery, sprout them, and then go out and cut down the old trees and plant the new trees. And this would, in 6 or 7 years, result in coconuts that were producing a lot more."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's really a long term thing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a long term thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you're working in a nursery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the nursery is like, um, it's basically just a bed where you stick coconuts and in 3 or 4 months they sprout."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But as a volunteer, if you're working in a nursery, you're not going to see the fully mature tree."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.589558109091398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And that was a question in my mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When, when we. So during the training, um, it seemed like we got. There was not much coordination in the agriculture aspect of it. We, we did go to one of the, uh, reef islands in the big lagoon and actually all, all the agricultural volunteers went out there for about four days, five days. Lived with families and actually got to dig holes and plant coconuts and like that. So that was the training we got there. It could have been done in an hour, but it took four days and, you know, and it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.988397898990442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When, when we. So during the training, um, it seemed like we got. There was not much coordination in the agriculture aspect of it. We, we did go to one of the, uh, reef islands in the big lagoon and actually all, all the agricultural volunteers went out there for about four days, five days. Lived with families and actually got to dig holes and plant coconuts and like that. So that was the training we got there. It could have been done in an hour, but it took four days and, you know, and it was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.209330998878269, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, we also were expected to, um, uh, plant, uh, vegetable gardens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on what basis were you assigned?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:327", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4548122209758545, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in, you know, in my case we had a secondary school on the island. So the idea was, well, maybe we could get the students to do a vegetable garden, and that would be great. And it could help provide them their food and stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, at what point in the process did you know where you were going to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on what basis were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was because the guy who was my housemate told the Peace Corps volunteer or Peace Corps director that I'd be good on an outer island. And it was obvious that some people would not survive an outer island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isolation and everything."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.727569134417616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let's see. It was a ten week training, probably week seven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And on what basis were you assigned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was because the guy who was my housemate told the Peace Corps volunteer or Peace Corps director that I'd be good on an outer island. And it was obvious that some people would not survive an outer island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isolation and everything."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, during, during the training were people resigning and going home all through it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3673693017501427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, during, during the training were people resigning and going home all through it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not a lot, not a lot. It was one or two. Um, there was some, I think probably some fairly heavy weeding done in San Francisco."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know about the other, the other villages, I just. I just know about the one I'm in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a relatively small group."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.157246051543386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know about the other, the other villages, I just. I just know about the one I'm in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a relatively small group."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a small group. And you know, we had the psychologists come and do this little testing, this profile thing and do a few group things and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, I thought it was pretty, I was pretty skeptical about that aspect of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was it all male?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6191622794926515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a small group. And you know, we had the psychologists come and do this little testing, this profile thing and do a few group things and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was, I thought it was pretty, I was pretty skeptical about that aspect of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. Was it all male?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They were, um, well in ag program, yes. They were all male. There was one couple, maybe two couples in our village, and they. She was probably wound up teaching English, and he was a small business guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they weren't in training with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.702669480855125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They were, um, well in ag program, yes. They were all male. There was one couple, maybe two couples in our village, and they. She was probably wound up teaching English, and he was a small business guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So they weren't in training with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they kind of were in the language stuff and we lived right next door. They were in the house right next to us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But they didn't do the agricultural stuff with us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the training goes on for ten weeks. You have a vague idea of the job you're supposed to be doing. Was there anything about community dynamics, the fact that you were going into a totally different culture that you're introducing, trying to introduce some, I mean, that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.698475050838477, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really helpful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that were assigned to the big lagoon in the districts, that was a cultural catastrophe there. And it was, it was like Nogales in the worst of the worst days. It was, uh, cultural disintegration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people dropped out of that situation like flies. It was the second highest dropout rate in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, during the ten weeks, uh, what kind of Peace Corps staff presence was there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:353", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.220527834264974, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The people that were assigned to the big lagoon in the districts, that was a cultural catastrophe there. And it was, it was like Nogales in the worst of the worst days. It was, uh, cultural disintegration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And people dropped out of that situation like flies. It was the second highest dropout rate in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Well, during the ten weeks, uh, what kind of Peace Corps staff presence was there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The volunteer, the existing volunteer who was in the house was there the whole time. Um, there was a Peace Corps psychologist who came out. The Peace Corps director, of course, came out and said hello."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was he based?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.432750852408129, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But each district had their headquarters, so the district director from, from Chuuk came over and visited."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and I remember towards the end of the, of the training, there were 3 or 4 of us who really were kind of, um, disappointed, to say the least, in the quality of the training, especially around the cultural stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we complained to the, to the district administrator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite Peace Corps, isn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.824075243358202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Peace Corps, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but we could also see what was, what we were being set up for it seemed like. Um, because at that time, the U.S. was pouring money into Micronesia, doing all kinds of capital improvement stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Giving, just pouring money in. It was not grassroots. And those of us who had been the slightest bit around the bush could see that this was going to go sideways in a big way, and we were going to get caught in the middle of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's also against the background of our deep involvement in Vietnam and Saipan as a major base."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.80452804817578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but we could also see what was, what we were being set up for it seemed like. Um, because at that time, the U.S. was pouring money into Micronesia, doing all kinds of capital improvement stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Giving, just pouring money in. It was not grassroots. And those of us who had been the slightest bit around the bush could see that this was going to go sideways in a big way, and we were going to get caught in the middle of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it's also against the background of our deep involvement in Vietnam and Saipan as a major base."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody. Yeah, yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the ten weeks, you're, you've been selected. You're a Peace Corps volunteer. Uh, what comes next?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.659911170587381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody. Yeah, yeah, that was in the back of the minds of everybody."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at the end of the ten weeks, you're, you've been selected. You're a Peace Corps volunteer. Uh, what comes next?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then they. I was told, wait. We had a little, I think there was a Peace Corps house in the capital town on the big island where we kind of all hung out until we, until we got out to our islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I didn't get out to my island, let's see, that was July or August. We got done with training about the first week in October. I didn't get out to my island until almost Christmas. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been frustrating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.511012411763756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, then they. I was told, wait. We had a little, I think there was a Peace Corps house in the capital town on the big island where we kind of all hung out until we, until we got out to our islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, I didn't get out to my island, let's see, that was July or August. We got done with training about the first week in October. I didn't get out to my island until almost Christmas. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been frustrating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very frustrating. But the shipping was irregular. Totally irregular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how you got from island to island."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.803719026868835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very frustrating. But the shipping was irregular. Totally irregular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask how you got from island to island."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two, there were two vessels, actually three, but there were two that were regular in, in Truk. One was a Catholic motor sailer, uh, about a 40-50 foot motor sailer. Uh, just a vomit comet. I mean, it's, but great ship. And the other was the official, um, government freighter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did a regular service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.559687807632039, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were two, there were two vessels, actually three, but there were two that were regular in, in Truk. One was a Catholic motor sailer, uh, about a 40-50 foot motor sailer. Uh, just a vomit comet. I mean, it's, but great ship. And the other was the official, um, government freighter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did a regular service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did a regular circuit, except that when there was a medical emergency, it got diverted to go pick up whoever it was that otherwise would have died. So there was no schedule, and there was a schedule in that they'd go to this district and then everything being equal, they go to the next one. But it wasn't like the Peace Corps could say, hey, we want to take, you take all these guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps did not have its own?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.863812108187703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did a regular circuit, except that when there was a medical emergency, it got diverted to go pick up whoever it was that otherwise would have died. So there was no schedule, and there was a schedule in that they'd go to this district and then everything being equal, they go to the next one. But it wasn't like the Peace Corps could say, hey, we want to take, you take all these guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And Peace Corps did not have its own?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have a ship. Not until the second year I was there. Then they chartered, actually, or leased a trimaran, a 40 foot trimaran that came through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a mixed thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stick back with. So I'm trying to get out to the islands."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.404235675764114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They didn't have a ship. Not until the second year I was there. Then they chartered, actually, or leased a trimaran, a 40 foot trimaran that came through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a mixed thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's stick back with. So I'm trying to get out to the islands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was in the district center then for a couple of months, and, um, I did get to go out on the ship, on the, on the Catholic boat, it was called the Star of the Sea, to deliver the Peace Corps to the western islands. My atoll group was a little bit north of that, and I was led to believe right up until I got on the boat that it was going there as well. But I got on the boat and they said, oh no, we're just going there and back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not this time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.186414123463756, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the first, my first introduction to those western and non-NATO islands. So I made myself useful in the district center. We built an office for the, for the Peace Corps in Quonset huts. So we had carpentry skills and things and but mostly stuff like that. Just waiting and waiting and waiting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was frustrating, um, but I did finally get out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On, on the, on the main, on the big freighter. Um, arrived on the island of, at that time called Ulul, but by the people that lived there called Onoun. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you arrive with? I mean, whatever you can carry on your back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.168412498103402, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On, on the, on the main, on the big freighter. Um, arrived on the island of, at that time called Ulul, but by the people that lived there called Onoun. And, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you arrive with? I mean, whatever you can carry on your back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had a, I had a trunk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a Peace Corps library box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The book, the book locker."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.380756170498026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I had a Peace Corps library box."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The book, the book locker."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The wonderful book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.\n\nYeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.08972907833114, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The wonderful book locker."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.\n\nYeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me. I mean, other people are going to the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that's what I was getting at."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:409", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.877476753701266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably half a dozen boxes of food and things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We did buy, we kind of stocked up in the commissary at the, at not the commissary, but the Truk trading company, this private.\n\nYeah. Now, this final trip, when you're going out for your assignment, is someone else going also? It's just you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just me. I mean, other people are going to the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right, that's what I was getting at."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And when you get there, is there any other Peace Corps on the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:413", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.391946609507736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And when you get there, is there any other Peace Corps on the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was, um, let's see. Yeah, there were one, there were three actually. There was a couple who were the just prior group. And there was a guy who was, uh, Micronesia I, and he was leaving on the ship I was leaving on because he had a torn shoulder, and he went off to get medical treatment. Um, on the ship I was on was the material for a school to school project that he had arranged. Um. Uh, and it was no great loss that he left because he didn't know how to, one end of a hammer from another. And but the other two, the couple, were both teaching English in elementary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we arrived at, Onoun doesn't have a dock or a pier. Um, so we anchored out, 4:00 in the morning, and I got paddled in in a little outrigger paddling canoe. Four in the morning. Met my sponsor and went to the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Now, who was your sponsor?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.191810104416606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was ten years older, 10 or 12 years older than me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Micronesian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Micronesian. Spoke very passable English. He had about an eighth grade education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:423", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3242334493517844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Micronesian. Spoke very passable English. He had about an eighth grade education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the people in the island. I mean, they decided who was going to get the next Peace Corps. But yeah, Peace Corps had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the people on the island had been approached and had agreed to having a Peace Corps or an agricultural. Who did they think you were when you when you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.4713704992797605, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But he'd been trained by the Navy in, as a health aide. Um, and he was quite a remarkable guy. Um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had, it had been arranged by the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the people in the island. I mean, they decided who was going to get the next Peace Corps. But yeah, Peace Corps had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, the people on the island had been approached and had agreed to having a Peace Corps or an agricultural. Who did they think you were when you when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a good question. They didn't even ask for probably a month."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah, I can believe that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3806677492925543, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and so I was the first non teacher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a little vague as to how this was going to work out. And, um, fortunately for me and for them, uh, the school to school project kind of stuck its big foot in the way and said, do me, do me, do me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I oversaw the building of this elementary school for the first six months I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a commitment on the part of the community to the school project?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.7045280855463634, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I oversaw the building of this elementary school for the first six months I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there a commitment on the part of the community to the school project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, they provided all the labor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.893920095051515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they had, they provided all the labor."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And it was to be an elementary school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.10435566116835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they mixed the cement. They made the cement blocks with their, the one block things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was the former volunteer who had hooked up the supplies and materials."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. And it was to be an elementary school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had an elementary school, but it was in a, just a thatch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So it was a replacement."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:447", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.597969952059691, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. They had an elementary school, but it was in a, just a thatch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. So it was a replacement."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So this was cement floor, um, block columns, high pitched roof."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And designed rather poorly by a Peace Corps volunteer in the district center who said he was an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2073703111848038, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And designed rather poorly by a Peace Corps volunteer in the district center who said he was an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember his name?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never met him. I just had his sketches that he said were the plans I was supposed to follow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt comfortable, I mean, did you feel you didn't have any choice?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5637447902053374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never met him. I just had his sketches that he said were the plans I was supposed to follow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you felt comfortable, I mean, did you feel you didn't have any choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. I was happy to do it. I, I."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't think someone was suddenly going to appear one day and say, my God, you put the whole thing on backwards, you know?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.962573982937567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, and I wasn't a pro, but, um, this was not a complicated thing. And the guys on the island were not stupid either, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, we could. We had the lumber, we put it together. It was a great project because I got to, every day, well, for the first couple of weeks, when we started on the project."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it was five days a week, and until the, uh, and I got to work with all the men on the island. It was only about 30 able bodied, you know, adult men to do this kind of work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh really? Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.463494504446527, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And worse comes to worse, I could talk in lagoon and they could understand it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But Titus took it upon himself. I insisted that he, that he be stern with me and correct me whenever I made a mistake."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I didn't want to learn bad Trukese. And he was a remarkable guy. It was unusual Trukese in that he was outspoken himself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was willing to be critical?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.333934620403181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and in fact, he loved it. He was relieved that I wouldn't be a doofus and embarrass him."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so every evening we would go over what we were going to do the next day at the school. And I'd say, I need to be able to say this, this, and this. And, you know, in retrospect, they knew what they were doing, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They let you play at being king."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:483", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5932606893368675, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so every evening we would go over what we were going to do the next day at the school. And I'd say, I need to be able to say this, this, and this. And, you know, in retrospect, they knew what they were doing, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They let you play at being king."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.8814007659298526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But anyway, it kind of, you know, I was the, the, ostensibly I was in charge."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They let you play at being king."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Titus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Titus was kind of a mentor in."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.201556406588725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Play the role. So, so I learned over that, uh, six weeks or so, well, no, six months that we worked on anything. I got an opportunity to work with all the men, and I worked right alongside them so they could see that I wasn't a, uh, you know, sit on my butt kind of boss guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. And the guy who was helping you, what was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Titus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Titus was kind of a mentor in."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, but also introducing you to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:493", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.391709748407029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was, uh, he had a cultural relationship with the hereditary chiefs line. His father was hereditary chief before him. He was not in line to be hereditary chief, but he had a relationship with that hereditary chief line that made him an important guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And he was healthy, and he was outspoken, and he was smart as hell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the total population?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.050381460155175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of the smart guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them came back to be the first president of Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them is still the UN representative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But many may have stayed out of the country."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.500423844616861, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some of them came back to be the first president of Micronesia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One of them is still the UN representative."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But many may have stayed out of the country."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were, they were. He was out of the country."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So, uh, and the living conditions then?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3555248092547907, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We liked each other instantly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. And his whole family were, he had, his wife was a little bit younger than he was. And they had at that time, like I said, about four kids, 4 or 5 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you taking meals with them?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.5061386769497673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was really wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. And his whole family were, he had, his wife was a little bit younger than he was. And they had at that time, like I said, about four kids, 4 or 5 kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were you taking meals with them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, sometimes. And sometimes I would, they would bring me food to the house. There was always people in the house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had come with a certain amount of supplies."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.295593167123559, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Powdered milk, coffee, sugar, flour."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, tin, tinned food."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. So I did a fair bit of cooking myself. I had little kerosene stove, and I made an oven out of a biscuit tin box. So I would make things special for just whoever came around."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So after you'd been there a couple of weeks, did you wake up and say, oh my God, I'm in Micronesia at the end of the world?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1489618204712744, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, I was, I was blown away from the get-go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I, a friend of mine wrote and said, geez, you know, you ever get any marijuana out there? I mean, what do you do if you can't get stoned? And I wrote back and said, this, I've been high since I got here, and not on marijuana. I just, every time I look around, it's like."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The, and, and so many things were happening all at once. Um, that it was. But to get back to, to the point of how fortunate it was that the school project was there in front of me, was it got me engaged. It gave me language practice, but it also put off any agricultural activities, thank God."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uncovering the fraud that you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.9994611601742174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the idea of having a vegetable garden for the school was terrific, you know, because they, they had to feed these kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so that was good. Um, and I was led to believe that I was going to have a nice big fat pig delivered to me and some chickens from the ag extension. The pig to improve the stock on the island, the chickens likewise."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So Titus and I also built one hell of a fine palace for the chickens, and they didn't come for about six months because ag kept forgetting to put it on the ship. They did send a pig. And ten minutes after it got the island, the islanders castrated it because it would get fatter that way. So I kind of, I, you know, I had the chickens for a long time, but I really didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you immediately wrote back, send more pigs. They were delicious."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0143629192267722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I had, you know, I had plans for a nice chicken house, and it turned out that my chickens, which were all Rhode Island Reds, were too stupid to lay eggs in that chicken house, but all the island chickens would come lay eggs in that chicken house. So I had lots of eggs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my chickens got eaten by the monitor lizards that lived on the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, how was your health?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.23818102136308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And my chickens got eaten by the monitor lizards that lived on the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the first six months, how was your health?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first six months was pretty good. Um, then I got hepatitis. Hepatitis A, I think it was. And that knocked me out. Um, but I didn't leave the island, I just."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was your communication back, I mean?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.411341291515135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the Peace Corps, as one of their conditions on, to have volunteers in the outer islands, they put a big generator, diesel generator, and a radio on each of the outer islands."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that generator not only gave us radio contact, but it also provided lights for the schools."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And power for a slide projector and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you check in periodically?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.976964557426092, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And power for a slide projector and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you, did you check in periodically?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had weekly, weekly, uh, communication with the district center. When, when the, when the generators were running. There were times when the generators would go on the blink. And the next time the ship came out, I mean, people would realize because they couldn't raise us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or somebody would go to another island and radio in, so they'd send somebody out to fix it. So there were plenty of times when we didn't have communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any visitors during the first six, eight months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.307738397140102, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had weekly, weekly, uh, communication with the district center. When, when the, when the generators were running. There were times when the generators would go on the blink. And the next time the ship came out, I mean, people would realize because they couldn't raise us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or somebody would go to another island and radio in, so they'd send somebody out to fix it. So there were plenty of times when we didn't have communication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any visitors during the first six, eight months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh. Let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don't know how anyone would get there, but."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5173577155008413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Illegal for them to be there, but they would show up offshore and people would go out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Schooners?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, these were longliners, you know, tuna."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tuna fish."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay. Got it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.553278191748173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was always exciting. And there was, there was, uh, there was one that came that, um, the captain, for some reason, decided he wasn't going to let his crew trade with people. So the one of the guys on, one of our guys was on the deck, got pissed off and managed to get the nut off the main trolling pulley and threw it overboard in 80 feet of water. And the captain just flipped and took the hereditary chief, and one other guy had his guys grab him and put him in the, in the wheelhouse and said, we're going to take him back to wherever they came from if you don't get that nut, because we can't troll without it and we don't have a spare.\n\nSo the rest of us got in our canoes and went ashore, and they left me there. But every man on the island got his machete and all the little canoes, and they surrounded that ship and started banging on the ship and screaming bloody murder. And, uh, and the final shot was, and the Peace Corps is calling the Coast Guard right now! So our guys were released and that ship left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Captain America."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was exciting. It was also a little scary because had they had guns, they could have done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awful things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it's such an isolated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.275652088577991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Awful things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, it's such an isolated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And nobody trusted him. When we first saw him, we didn't want to let him ashore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was interesting. And the only other visitor we had in the first year was a Navy ship that came on a PR thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4818503332181585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we had a little joke that she and I were engaged."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a process. There's a, there's actually a legitimate process for that. But so they said, oh God, really, you know? And I pointed her out and they just backed off like, oh my God, this guy's been out here way too long. It was hilarious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different worlds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They still laugh about that, 40 years later. They laugh about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you phase into the community primarily through the building of the school."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.7576114813535093, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a process. There's a, there's actually a legitimate process for that. But so they said, oh God, really, you know? And I pointed her out and they just backed off like, oh my God, this guy's been out here way too long. It was hilarious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Different worlds."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They still laugh about that, 40 years later. They laugh about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so you phase into the community primarily through the building of the school."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, when is your first time off the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2933475078438383, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mm hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh, when is your first time off the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Let's see, I was. I spent way too much time going back and forth. I went, I was called back in when the, for a, by the assistant director for a meeting of all the agricultural guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That never happened. So I was off for about six weeks screwing around in the district center, again working on the office building and doing some other stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must be frustrating."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.548163897604265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um. Let's see, I was. I spent way too much time going back and forth. I went, I was called back in when the, for a, by the assistant director for a meeting of all the agricultural guys."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That never happened. So I was off for about six weeks screwing around in the district center, again working on the office building and doing some other stuff like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must be frustrating."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was totally frustrating. It really pissed us off. And, and it was. He left after a while, but we got a new director who was really good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But at that point when you came in that way, you were meeting with the others who were trained with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.495423727852215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ostensibly. I was looking forward to it. I was thinking, we're going to meet with the agriculture people. The other volunteers are going to meet with the ag extension people. We're going to have, you know, it's kind of like what they call now, I guess, mid, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Mid-service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-service training or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was really looking forward to it. And it just didn't happen because they couldn't get the, the logistics together so people didn't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what, what, uh, in speaking with, what was, had been their experience up to that point? How did it match against yours?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:623", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8838041420580165, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mid-service training or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was really looking forward to it. And it just didn't happen because they couldn't get the, the logistics together so people didn't come."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But what, what, uh, in speaking with, what was, had been their experience up to that point? How did it match against yours?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other volunteers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, the other volunteers."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:627", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.794819928466687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other volunteers?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, the other volunteers."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it varied a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there was, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Micronesia had a huge number of volunteers at one point."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:629", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.327577698296318, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, it varied a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, there was, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Micronesia had a huge number of volunteers at one point."}, {"role": "user", "content": "About 600 or something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been around this time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:639", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.454398378120405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where you could go and get a drink and a decent steak and, and then there were the rest of us."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the only Trukese that were up there were bureaucrats and suck ups and thieves and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:641", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.949331531244894, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the only Trukese that were up there were bureaucrats and suck ups and thieves and so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:643", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.499257256938772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and so it was weird and I didn't like it at all. And those of us from the westerns especially, the western islands and the Namonuito islands, were the least westernized. Ironically, they were the most conservative islanders. They had been Catholicized, not Protestantized, as they still were very traditional."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but there were there were far fewer of you in any given situation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even three maybe or four."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:645", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.11028584104308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, if there were ten Peace Corps on your island, it would have been a disaster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even three maybe or four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, three was, three was workable because we were doing different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. So you had this one break back, which was a bust."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:647", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.789206490047866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh God, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Or even three maybe or four."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, three was, three was workable because we were doing different things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, okay. So you had this one break back, which was a bust."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then I was, uh, then I went on vacation. That was a separate trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between the first and second year?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:663", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.582614991854702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But. And then I went up to Saipan for a couple of weeks and got dewormed, as I recall, and, uh, and met up there with a village in Saipan made up of people from my island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which I've only in the last few years learned more about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was a great, great vacation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now you finished the first year. You're going back. As you start into your second year, have you now become an agriculturalist or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:685", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.867179841998242, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Biggest lessons that's stuck with me ever since. Um, so we tentatively got into doing what the program called for. There were a few guys who were willing to try it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we cleared some areas, we planted some trees. A lot of people could understand that if you brushed underneath the trees, it'd be less competition with the coconuts and the coconuts would grow better. So that's good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and we probably planted, I don't know, a thousand trees, a thousand coconuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now there would, how long would they stay in the nursery?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:687", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.6301998244424905, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we cleared some areas, we planted some trees. A lot of people could understand that if you brushed underneath the trees, it'd be less competition with the coconuts and the coconuts would grow better. So that's good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and we probably planted, I don't know, a thousand trees, a thousand coconuts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now there would, how long would they stay in the nursery?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, about four months. Three, four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and then."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:691", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.419999783262334, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, about four months. Three, four months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, and then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As soon as they sprouted up to a certain height."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then they could be transplanted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could you survey an area and say, well, this would be a good place for."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:703", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.648573940027836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The fat end was the productive end, uh, agriculturally. And that end is where all the families had their traditional holdings. The other part, the long skinny part had been, um, not exactly commandeered. What would you call it? Um, used by a Belgian starting in about 1886 as a plantation. There's a long story behind that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, which I didn't learn until towards the very end."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but it had been planted as a plantation and run as a plantation, um, by that Belgian, uh, up into Japanese times, into the '20s, I guess, maybe '30s before. [tape break] The Belgian, a guy named, uh, Eshiek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not Emil Lohbeck?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:715", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.667072995925858, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, the, the law of unintended consequences works for good and for evil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I revisited the Island in 2002, 47 years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I asked them, you know, how did those Yapese coconuts turn out? Oh, they're really, really nice coconuts. Really good coconuts. Really great. Yeah, that was really great. I said, well, how about the copra, I mean, did you guys? Well, actually, they're no good for copra. You can't get the meat out, but the hard shell of the coconut is much bigger than the ones we had. And they're really good for collecting coconut toddy. So that's what we use it for. So yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So people there would, they had chickens, pigs, and small gardens, tropical fruit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:725", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.90372909943582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, and they made those swamps. They dug down to the fresh water and filled it with leaves and stuff. And so they tended taro swamps. They had breadfruit. Uh, they had, uh, at that time they had some lime trees that were, God knows who brought those in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and papaya and banana, uh, a few pineapple."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were also shown in our training, uh, the quote unquote, proper way to prepare bananas for planting and pineapple for planting. And that was probably a good idea. But again, I was way out of my league, and so I didn't go there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's go through the second year then. Uh, you began working on the agricultural project with a little bit less than enthusiasm. Uh, any other activities on the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:735", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.785397042178223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gained possession of it on paper. So here was this piece of, you know, three quarters of the island that is U.S. owned. And the people there had made several petitions, both during Navy times in the '50s and in the early '60s, to get the island back, and unsuccessfully. But they decided to make one more shot at it, and they asked me to help. And I was invited to the council meetings. And by that time I was, between my own language proficiency and Titus' ability to translate sophisticated stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I sat in on many council meetings, and this was a huge deal for the island. Um, they were, they were told that there was going to be a plebiscite and someday they might be independent. And they were looking at these lagoon Trukese, 160 miles away, who were basically going to run the show. What would they do with that piece of the island? So they wanted that clarified. And there was conflict. There were nine clans on the island, and there was historical conflict between some of the clans over who had what and who had prior rights, etcetera, etcetera.\n\nBut the elected magistrate of the island, a guy named Leon Epperson, basically facilitated a conversation between those nine clans that led to a unified position vis-a-vis the U.S. And my contribution was to suggest to them that they would have a better shot at it if they came up with a land use plan and a clear way of distributing it, so that the U.S. guys would think, oh, they have it together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:737", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.31710782464247, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I sat in on many council meetings, and this was a huge deal for the island. Um, they were, they were told that there was going to be a plebiscite and someday they might be independent. And they were looking at these lagoon Trukese, 160 miles away, who were basically going to run the show. What would they do with that piece of the island? So they wanted that clarified. And there was conflict. There were nine clans on the island, and there was historical conflict between some of the clans over who had what and who had prior rights, etcetera, etcetera.\n\nBut the elected magistrate of the island, a guy named Leon Epperson, basically facilitated a conversation between those nine clans that led to a unified position vis-a-vis the U.S. And my contribution was to suggest to them that they would have a better shot at it if they came up with a land use plan and a clear way of distributing it, so that the U.S. guys would think, oh, they have it together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they been, would they have told you to stop?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:739", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.907897582936077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So, so they did. And it was totally amazing to watch that process."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was Peace Corps aware of the role you were playing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they been, would they have told you to stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, but you're interfering in local affairs."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:741", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.564330647706752, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had they been, would they have told you to stop?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, but you're interfering in local affairs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't, I was just helping out a little."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:751", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.477367352041104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we made a few corrections and then typed it up and 120 people signed it and we sent it in with the other volunteer, Kent Reediman and Jan Reediman. They were going somewhere. Sent that in, and it was forwarded to the high commissioner with a letter from the district, the district administrator supporting it. And that's the last I saw of it or heard of it until 19, or until 2002.\n\nBut in the meantime, we continued our work out there. Um, the new district administrator came out to the island to visit and brought an entourage of bureaucrats, one of whom was a was an engineer starting up. And he stayed with me. And so he arranged for me to get a alidade and a plane table so we could map the villages and then map the private land. We never got to the private land, but we did map the villages, and this is all part of lining up to be able to make sure that the, that however this land was, um, divided would be fair."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First we have to know who has what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really a fun project, and that was right down my alley because I learned how to do that as an archeologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That's great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:753", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0859637244901155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First we have to know who has what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really a fun project, and that was right down my alley because I learned how to do that as an archeologist."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I could actually contribute something that they couldn't do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They couldn't do what you doing."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:759", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.348372735926084, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Even though I didn't like the idea of laying out the villages in squares, never mind that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some compromises."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I did a lot of, I did that kind of thing. And it turned out in, I mean, over, over time that, that that petition to the high commissioner was by far the most important thing I've ever done in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By far. Um, but I didn't know it at the time. I was just doing what was in front of me, you know? Why not? This is kind of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now you come to, coming to the end of your two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:777", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.1331965716611405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My father was a conservative. And he wrote back and said, if you do that, you're no son of mine. Never darken my door again. You know, a man of principle would, would obey the law and go to jail if, you know, blah blah blah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just reread the letter I wrote back to him, and I must say, I don't think it probably had much of an effect, but I was, I was definitely not going to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you way out on the island?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:779", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.703551746290156, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I just reread the letter I wrote back to him, and I must say, I don't think it probably had much of an effect, but I was, I was definitely not going to go home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you way out on the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the island. So, May. I was supposed to terminate in August, I think. So in May, I got appendicitis. It took four days for the ship to get out to get me, because they were on the other side of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was an emergency?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:781", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.226168606989062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, and then I got appendicitis. So this was in May."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you way out on the island?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was on the island. So, May. I was supposed to terminate in August, I think. So in May, I got appendicitis. It took four days for the ship to get out to get me, because they were on the other side of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this was an emergency?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a, it was a four day emergency. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my God."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:785", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.452060008628471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a, it was a four day emergency. Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my God."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, so we, fortunately our radio was working."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fortunately you didn't die."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:789", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2741481588005814, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Fortunately you didn't die."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, uh, so I finally got into the district center on the ship. I took the commercial flight to Guam, and I was in the Guam Naval Hospital for three weeks maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost a month. I was in intensive care for about ten days. And then I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:791", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.6379423986673127, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so, uh, so I finally got into the district center on the ship. I took the commercial flight to Guam, and I was in the Guam Naval Hospital for three weeks maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Almost a month. I was in intensive care for about ten days. And then I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Touch and go. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:809", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.81620288716148, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We almost died on that one too. We got lost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but we survived, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:811", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.129114319068311, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, but we survived, obviously."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a, it's about a five day trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now you're, you're, you got back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:813", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4767936878536787, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful getting back to the island. I was there for about a month, and then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's real basic travel. I mean, going basic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's a, it's about a five day trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So now you're, you're, you got back."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got back to the island, basically just finishing up stuff. And there was nothing, you know, we did a little bit. I was weak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But at least you had the satisfaction of leaving on your own terms rather than."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:817", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2923378862391095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got back to the island, basically just finishing up stuff. And there was nothing, you know, we did a little bit. I was weak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. But at least you had the satisfaction of leaving on your own terms rather than."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, it was. That would have been the worst to have left without being able to say goodbye."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now, by the time you finally leave, you're 26 and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:823", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.887980639559822, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just turned 26. I got back to the district center. I'm going to fly home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going to fly, actually I'm going to fly to San Francisco, meet my girlfriend and head to Canada."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a letter from, uh, from my draft board saying, forget it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We don't, we don't want you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:825", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.542200710622024, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm going to fly, actually I'm going to fly to San Francisco, meet my girlfriend and head to Canada."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a letter from, uh, from my draft board saying, forget it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. We don't, we don't want you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the spot I had to go like this, rearrange my whole future. So."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you came, flew back."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:831", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.73964432184091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I came home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, spent a week with my girlfriend on the California coast and then came to Tucson."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And went out there for 3 or 4 months, and total culture shock. Absolute culture shock."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I would think, I mean, doubly so for living on an island with 300 people coming back anyplace in the U.S."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:839", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.004640027192362, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we went to Fort Bragg, which was, I don't know, a couple hundred miles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We drove and drove and drove and drove and drove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, um. Anyway, I did come back to Tucson, and I kind of disappeared into the back, backyard. I had an old woody station wagon, so I spent a good deal of time just restoring that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you must have really, I mean, you'd been through so much, and it had been such a dramatic experience and satisfying that you're at a point in your life now, well, where do where do I go now?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:865", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.823705525265677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so linguistics was one of the avenues. And I went to this guy's grad classes and it was interesting. And then he invited me to a Saturday night poker game, and I went and there were 5 or 6 graduate students under his tutelage. And I, you know, not too far into the evening, discovered that he was cheating and nobody was saying anything. And I thought, well, fuck this, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wound up going to Alaska and fishing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after you left did the status change to independence?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:867", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.470783916961863, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I wound up going to Alaska and fishing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after you left did the status change to independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within a few years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:869", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.85642657440207, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, I just couldn't do that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How soon after you left did the status change to independence?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within a few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's all right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:871", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.2849184160022995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, gosh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Within a few years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of ongoing contact were you able to have?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:873", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.761020462224777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, almost 15 years. It was 1980, about 1981 or 2. I should know this cold that I don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that's all right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what kind of ongoing contact were you able to have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had very little. Um, there was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I mean, given the isolation generally I could."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:897", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.590212597640228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I mean, nobody was killed, and everybody survived, but it changed the whole island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They got massive government aid for quite a few years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After they changed things. And then."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it's living on the dole, sort of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:903", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.981087239561354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the dole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and then some machinations started happening. This was in, by mid '70s. In 1975, it turns out in retrospect, I mean I learned this afterwards. In 1975, so that's, uh, seven years after we made the petition to the, to the high commissioner, the court, the high court of, of Micronesia granted them ownership of the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks to the petition and to the efforts of a Legal Aid attorney who came in the mid '70s and was handed this project from unknown to push us on through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a Peace Corps volunteer?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:905", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.645652488401504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh, and then some machinations started happening. This was in, by mid '70s. In 1975, it turns out in retrospect, I mean I learned this afterwards. In 1975, so that's, uh, seven years after we made the petition to the, to the high commissioner, the court, the high court of, of Micronesia granted them ownership of the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thanks to the petition and to the efforts of a Legal Aid attorney who came in the mid '70s and was handed this project from unknown to push us on through."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it a Peace Corps volunteer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Legal Aid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:909", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.735373442470992, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, Legal Aid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "His name was, uh, Laur Halpern, who goes by Elie Halpern now. I, we."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, uh. And so, so when, uh. Well, I don't know where to go from here. There's, there's the history of the island, and there's my own history, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, let's, let me, uh, I'd be curious. You said you have gone back. Let's pick it up from, you know, from there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:999", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.5904900000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it's, he's, he's about the only one left in the family now. Three other members have died in the passing seven, seven months, I mean seven years. So we went back again this last summer, it's our third trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we've just gotten thoroughly reengaged with the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, with the overcoming of this oppressive, oppressive corruption stuff on the island is just kind of uncovered a whole cultural miasma that is going to take a lot of work on their part and everybody's part to overcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's more than just like a tourist going back. I mean, you're, it's very much part of your life and you're very much part of their life."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:1001", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.6561000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we've just gotten thoroughly reengaged with the island."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, with the overcoming of this oppressive, oppressive corruption stuff on the island is just kind of uncovered a whole cultural miasma that is going to take a lot of work on their part and everybody's part to overcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But it's more than just like a tourist going back. I mean, you're, it's very much part of your life and you're very much part of their life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, I mean, it's kind of not unique, but it's just, you're lucky."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:1011", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The second time we went out, it was like, wow, they really must mean it that they do love us and respect us and want to help."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This last time and we went, the second time we went out, there were some very tragic things happen. A guy got killed, got stabbed, and we were very close to everybody involved. It was a very traumatic thing for the audience. So yeah, when we left that time, we knew we were going to be going back. And when we went this time it's like, I'm an, I'm an elder now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm the fourth oldest man on the island. And I know things that nobody else knows because I was there when I was younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're a piece of the history."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00258:1013", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This last time and we went, the second time we went out, there were some very tragic things happen. A guy got killed, got stabbed, and we were very close to everybody involved. It was a very traumatic thing for the audience. So yeah, when we left that time, we knew we were going to be going back. And when we went this time it's like, I'm an, I'm an elder now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I'm the fourth oldest man on the island. And I know things that nobody else knows because I was there when I was younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're a piece of the history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got the history."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Will you likely go back again?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.245159669592255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I'm David Wessel, and I did indeed serve from 1962 to '64 in the Peace Corps in Colombia. Rural community development."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Thank you. I'm going to turn this off and make sure it's recording."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here you go. So, David, let's go back to what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps. Were you in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.93906629954695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Here you go. So, David, let's go back to what you were doing a year before you joined the Peace Corps. Were you in college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first Peace Corps volunteer from Louisiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you are the first. Oh wow. Well, that's very nice. Let's go a little bit farther back now when you were, uh, where did you find yourself when you were a little boy? Where did you grow up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.598962555052168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in college at Loyola University here in New Orleans. I was in my last course of college in chemistry, and I was, the day I finished my final exam I got my acceptance in the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, perfect timing. Oh, that's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first Peace Corps volunteer from Louisiana."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you are the first. Oh wow. Well, that's very nice. Let's go a little bit farther back now when you were, uh, where did you find yourself when you were a little boy? Where did you grow up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in Miami Beach, Florida. And I was the youngest of 10 children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 19.257978463027364, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was born and raised in Miami Beach, Florida. And I was the youngest of 10 children."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother was a senior here at Loyola when I was a freshman, and he talked me into coming to Loyola. And of course, once you come to New Orleans, you love New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're very happy, especially as a college student."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 15.842198292252625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My brother was a senior here at Loyola when I was a freshman, and he talked me into coming to Loyola. And of course, once you come to New Orleans, you love New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're very happy, especially as a college student."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, but that was pretty local."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.380220324725139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And you're very happy, especially as a college student."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure, for a number of reasons. So you had nine brothers and sisters, all of those older than you. And I'm trying to imagine what life might have been like for you. Um, you couldn't all fit into a car and go on a road trip. What sorts of things did you do as family? Did you take vacations?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, but that was pretty local."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 17.089133694139043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah yes, but that was pretty local."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he went to Loyola right here in New Orleans before you. Were you the only two of the ten?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.98792632682116, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And he went to Loyola right here in New Orleans before you. Were you the only two of the ten?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had. Out of the ten that were, I think, five of us who got college degrees. My brother Bill was here at Loyola. My brother Jack went to the University of Florida and was a judge, subsequently went to Loyola Law School and then returned to Florida and was a judge in Florida. My brother Joe graduated from the University of Miami. He was my oldest brother. And my sister Rita was graduated from Barry College in Miami, and she was a teacher all her life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's really quite remarkable. Five out of 10 graduating from college. So from this, I would assume that your parents saw the value of education and were encouraging."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.639415218297731, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we had. Out of the ten that were, I think, five of us who got college degrees. My brother Bill was here at Loyola. My brother Jack went to the University of Florida and was a judge, subsequently went to Loyola Law School and then returned to Florida and was a judge in Florida. My brother Joe graduated from the University of Miami. He was my oldest brother. And my sister Rita was graduated from Barry College in Miami, and she was a teacher all her life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that's really quite remarkable. Five out of 10 graduating from college. So from this, I would assume that your parents saw the value of education and were encouraging."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. We were Roman Catholic. We went to Roman Catholic school, grade school and high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.377128020330812, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they were. We were Roman Catholic. We went to Roman Catholic school, grade school and high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saint Patrick's, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.863475578145346, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saint Patrick's, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.292750642383718, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saint Patrick's, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.769722935981909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.299692151091009, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.777435723434455, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a history major?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.308261914927172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I see. OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a history major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, history major."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you continued studying Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.898068794363525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were a history major?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, history major."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you continued studying Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.442298660403916, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, history major."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you continued studying Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is late '50s, very early '60s?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.935887400448795, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is late '50s, very early '60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you were involved in civil rights."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.484319333831994, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So this is late '50s, very early '60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you were involved in civil rights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.093688148702215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what you were involved in civil rights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to the, you know, the longshoremen's place, meeting place. And the people would come to us and we would teach them what they expected you to do on that form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. They couldn't come in with a pre-filled form."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.770764609669128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we went to the, you know, the longshoremen's place, meeting place. And the people would come to us and we would teach them what they expected you to do on that form."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. They couldn't come in with a pre-filled form."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they had to know what to do once they handed it to them."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.053175047557103, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was very much. There was a famous sociologist who was on Loyola's faculty, Joseph Victor SJ, and he really pushed us to try to get involved in that movement, in the rights movement, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.947972275063448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I was very much. There was a famous sociologist who was on Loyola's faculty, Joseph Victor SJ, and he really pushed us to try to get involved in that movement, in the rights movement, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the academic year, because that's when the elections were being held, you know, the primaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, of course. That's right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.831080305626053, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the academic year, because that's when the elections were being held, you know, the primaries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh yes, of course. That's right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was leading up to the election of JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So you wanted to get all those voters registered. And then what did you do in the summers?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.433432476081546, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So it was leading up to the election of JFK."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So you wanted to get all those voters registered. And then what did you do in the summers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the summer, I worked at various jobs. I waited on tables. I bused tables. I was a cocktail waiter in a famous bar that a lot of Loyola students hung out at. And I also worked for WDSU TV as a switchboard operator, and I worked with J. Aron Company. They were importers of coffee and sugar. And I was a microfilm operator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.370480528979495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the summer, I worked at various jobs. I waited on tables. I bused tables. I was a cocktail waiter in a famous bar that a lot of Loyola students hung out at. And I also worked for WDSU TV as a switchboard operator, and I worked with J. Aron Company. They were importers of coffee and sugar. And I was a microfilm operator."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, now it's completely useless. I don't think they have microfilm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so let's see. Was the draft a factor then, back in '62?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.189422809977216, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, now it's completely useless. I don't think they have microfilm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, so let's see. Was the draft a factor then, back in '62?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. At Loyola there was a requirement that you took ROTC for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. It was a requirement?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.764719518490392, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. At Loyola there was a requirement that you took ROTC for two years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No kidding. It was a requirement?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was self-designed, you know, by the Jesuits. But um, I didn't. I didn't stay in it. And so I was eligible for draft. But you were given a dispensation or what they call it if you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A deferment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they looked at your knees?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.627466131655991, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was self-designed, you know, by the Jesuits. But um, I didn't. I didn't stay in it. And so I was eligible for draft. But you were given a dispensation or what they call it if you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A deferment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they looked at your knees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.586073479617768, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they looked at your knees?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 10.651192755130854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, that was the big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.501325283478726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, that was the big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.445916981643029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, that was the big thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you didn't request Latin America?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.495463312936698, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you didn't request Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.661625903262998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. So you didn't request Latin America?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not know anybody that had even taken the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.512917670292218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not know anybody that had even taken the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pilot a plane."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.347686300324686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did not know anybody that had even taken the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pilot a plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.275207000360762, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Pilot a plane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.8613411115119565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.401490123902174, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.001655693224637, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that seems to be pretty good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6685063258051525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that seems to be pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It solved a lot of problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?\n\nNo, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.\n\nOkay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.409451473116836, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that seems to be pretty good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It solved a lot of problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?\n\nNo, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.\n\nOkay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.121612747907595, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It solved a lot of problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?\n\nNo, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.\n\nOkay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the one who was in the Navy?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.80179194211955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the one who was in the Navy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.557546602355055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was he the one who was in the Navy?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We still have an argument once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.286162891505617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We still have an argument once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.984625435006241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We still have an argument once in a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.649583816673601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.388426462970668, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One group was in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were Colombia II."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.209362736634075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "One group was in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were Colombia II."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in Colombia II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember first reporting to training? You had somebody with you that you had met on the plane. And then what was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.135015724239599, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in Colombia II."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember first reporting to training? You had somebody with you that you had met on the plane. And then what was that like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it turned out there were a number of us. There were a number of us on the plane or on another plane at the same time because they had a van that they picked us up in at the airport and they had, you know, signs where to go and all that. And so there were about 35 or 40 guys who were invited for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they took you to a dorm?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.261128582488443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it turned out there were a number of us. There were a number of us on the plane or on another plane at the same time because they had a van that they picked us up in at the airport and they had, you know, signs where to go and all that. And so there were about 35 or 40 guys who were invited for training."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they took you to a dorm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they took us to a dorm. And, uh, it was a very interesting training program. I don't think they really knew what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was so new."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.401253980542714, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so they took you to a dorm?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they took us to a dorm. And, uh, it was a very interesting training program. I don't think they really knew what they were doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was so new."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They had done the same type of training with the first group, first group trained in Colombia, first troupe or group trained in, uh, Colombia, the famous school in. What in the world is the neighborhood? Outside of New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside of New York?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.85339997597866, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. They had done the same type of training with the first group, first group trained in Colombia, first troupe or group trained in, uh, Colombia, the famous school in. What in the world is the neighborhood? Outside of New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Outside of New York?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just outside of New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cornell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.170444417754066, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just outside of New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Cornell?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New Jersey. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that was where Colombia I went. It's interesting that they didn't send you right back there, because people already had gone through it once. But so what was it like? Did they give you a rigorous physical Outward Bound?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.967160464171185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New Jersey. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, that was where Colombia I went. It's interesting that they didn't send you right back there, because people already had gone through it once. But so what was it like? Did they give you a rigorous physical Outward Bound?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very rigorous physical training. The first, one of the first things we did was we went, after the first day or two, we went to an Indian reservation and lived on an Indian reservation for about five days I would say. I don't think it was a full week, but it was, you know, almost full week. And we, and that may be why they switched it to Arizona rather than New Jersey. Because there was this access to the Indian reservation and a lot more Latinos in Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So Southwest would make sense for a number of reasons."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.379210449594055, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, very rigorous physical training. The first, one of the first things we did was we went, after the first day or two, we went to an Indian reservation and lived on an Indian reservation for about five days I would say. I don't think it was a full week, but it was, you know, almost full week. And we, and that may be why they switched it to Arizona rather than New Jersey. Because there was this access to the Indian reservation and a lot more Latinos in Arizona."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So Southwest would make sense for a number of reasons."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And uh, that first week we just did. We walked, we sort of had a partner that we walked with on the reservation, and we asked people if there was anything that we could help with. We introduced ourselves as Peace Corps trainees and we would pick cotton or do anything. So there was, uh, it was an interesting experience that first week. And then we went into a very physical, uh, not academic so much as physical. But we, of course, Spanish classes and history classes of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.088011610660061, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And uh, that first week we just did. We walked, we sort of had a partner that we walked with on the reservation, and we asked people if there was anything that we could help with. We introduced ourselves as Peace Corps trainees and we would pick cotton or do anything. So there was, uh, it was an interesting experience that first week. And then we went into a very physical, uh, not academic so much as physical. But we, of course, Spanish classes and history classes of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And language too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.875568456288956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And language too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In stressful situations."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.639520506987729, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And language too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In stressful situations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Without coming up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.488356118875254, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In stressful situations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Without coming up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.431506798750283, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Without coming up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.257229776389202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language training, did you find that adequate?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.8413664182102245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language training, did you find that adequate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.490407131344694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the language training, did you find that adequate?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Language lab. Yeah, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.211563479271882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Language lab. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.790626088079868, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Language lab. Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.4340289867554095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Language lab."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people on the coast speak different."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.037809985283788, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people on the coast speak different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.375344428093097, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The people on the coast speak different."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7503826978812187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They assigned us to a family and the family was wealthy, very wealthy. All of the families were very wealthy. They wanted us to get exposed to that type of surrounding and also use Spanish, before we went out into the poorest country, parts of the country. And so to see the difference in living conditions and survival. And that was very good. And most of us had very nice families and continued to correspond with them way after the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned that just because people are wealthy, they're not necessarily evil. You were being introduced to a variety of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.1670918865346875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They assigned us to a family and the family was wealthy, very wealthy. All of the families were very wealthy. They wanted us to get exposed to that type of surrounding and also use Spanish, before we went out into the poorest country, parts of the country. And so to see the difference in living conditions and survival. And that was very good. And most of us had very nice families and continued to correspond with them way after the Peace Corps experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you learned that just because people are wealthy, they're not necessarily evil. You were being introduced to a variety of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were basically very happy to have Peace Corps volunteers and many of the families had unattached females who were about our age. So that was a bonus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better than Puerto Rico."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.144557884610725, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were basically very happy to have Peace Corps volunteers and many of the families had unattached females who were about our age. So that was a bonus."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Better than Puerto Rico."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And many of our group married Colombians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.71617542734525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And many of our group married Colombians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lost five or 10 out of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.35130603038361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lost five or 10 out of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?\n\nUm, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.\n\nJust one interview with a shrink?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.057006700426234, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lost five or 10 out of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?\n\nUm, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.\n\nJust one interview with a shrink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.841118556029149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?\n\nUm, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.\n\nJust one interview with a shrink?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't bring it up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.712353951143498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The whole Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't bring it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:181", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.680393279048332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Don't bring it up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:183", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.42265919894259, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would they have met had it not been for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:185", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.136287998825099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would they have met had it not been for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said, well, I know him."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.706986665361221, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And would they have met had it not been for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said, well, I know him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.3410962948458005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you said, well, I know him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not later. They weeded some off right there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.045662549828667, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not later. They weeded some off right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.606291722031853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not later. They weeded some off right there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then another two weeks in, um."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.2292130244798365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then another two weeks in, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.921347804977596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then another two weeks in, um."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.690386449975106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, that was training part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.322651611083451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, that was training part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.02516845675939, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, that was training part."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.805742729732655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that must have been the ceremony."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.561936366369617, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that must have been the ceremony."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, about how very special."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.402151518188463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK, so that must have been the ceremony."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, about how very special."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.335723909098292, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, about how very special."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.039693232331435, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right within Columbia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.82188136925715, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right within Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First Peace Corps casualties."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.69097929917461, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right within Columbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First Peace Corps casualties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not what you anticipated."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.656643665749568, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "First Peace Corps casualties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not what you anticipated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. We didn't know what to anticipate, actually, because of the mix of the type of training we were getting, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the day came when you're done with Puerto Rico and you all pile on, you probably all 30 of you piled onto a charter plane that took you from Puerto Rico, nonstop maybe to Bogota."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 10.729604073055075, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe not what you anticipated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right, right. We didn't know what to anticipate, actually, because of the mix of the type of training we were getting, etcetera."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the day came when you're done with Puerto Rico and you all pile on, you probably all 30 of you piled onto a charter plane that took you from Puerto Rico, nonstop maybe to Bogota."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nonstop, uh huh. And we arrived at Bogota, and we went and stayed in, bussed to a dormitory for one of the universities."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what time of year was it? What month of the year was this?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.487797082380076, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, I would say. We went into training in February. By the time this, you know, was two months later, three months later. So we were in the middle of summer here, or in the beginning of summer, and down there it was winter. It was still very, it was very cold in Bogota. But of course, Bogota."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The altitude."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the altitude. And I remember wearing a topcoat I brought with me, you know, and all that. And there are pictures of us, you know, and everybody had these coats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bundled up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, bundled up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you must have been told. And prepared for seasonal changes."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.0975523137556396, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the altitude. And I remember wearing a topcoat I brought with me, you know, and all that. And there are pictures of us, you know, and everybody had these coats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Bundled up."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, bundled up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you must have been told. And prepared for seasonal changes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And we did training at the Jesuit university in Bogota. And now I'm trying to think of the name of it. And a very famous Jesuit priest gave most of the talks about Colombia and about what was happening in Colombia, because it was this big division between the conservatives and the democrats. And yeah, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he speak to you in Spanish or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:233", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.527842362661284, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And we did training at the Jesuit university in Bogota. And now I'm trying to think of the name of it. And a very famous Jesuit priest gave most of the talks about Colombia and about what was happening in Colombia, because it was this big division between the conservatives and the democrats. And yeah, anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he speak to you in Spanish or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He spoke to us in English mainly. He happened to be a very good friend of my sociology teacher at Loyola, because they were both Jesuits. And he was a sociologist as well as my Loyola teacher. So I had a chance to talk to him about that. And, you know, and it was. And he eventually went and joined the one of the groups that were protesting the government and he was killed in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under those circumstances, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were a volunteer there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:235", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.36426929184587, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He spoke to us in English mainly. He happened to be a very good friend of my sociology teacher at Loyola, because they were both Jesuits. And he was a sociologist as well as my Loyola teacher. So I had a chance to talk to him about that. And, you know, and it was. And he eventually went and joined the one of the groups that were protesting the government and he was killed in that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under those circumstances, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were a volunteer there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It was years later. Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:237", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.1825214353843, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Under those circumstances, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "While you were a volunteer there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It was years later. Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:239", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.980579372649223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It was years later. Years later."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but in Spanish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:241", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.867310414054693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:243", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.852567126727436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but in Spanish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Names are awful hard."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:245", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.613963474141596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Names are awful hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. And he had some of his children with him."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:247", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.459959415712884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Names are awful hard."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. And he had some of his children with him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And his son died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how do you live with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:249", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.177732684125427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my. And he had some of his children with him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And his son died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how do you live with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you would distribute it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:251", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.86414742680603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And his son died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, how do you live with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you would distribute it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:253", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.626830474228922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you would distribute it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then your whole group splits up?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.363144971365468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then your whole group splits up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.959049968183853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then your whole group splits up?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months. At least six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.6211666313153925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months. At least six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.134629590350436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Six months. At least six months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back in Bogota?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.7051439892782625, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back in Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:265", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.227937765864736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Back in Bogota?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, El Carmen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:267", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5865975176274842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, El Carmen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got it all in there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:269", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.985108352919427, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ah, El Carmen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got it all in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there had never been a Peace Corps volunteer there before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:271", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.427898169910474, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They got it all in there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there had never been a Peace Corps volunteer there before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a couple. There was a guy and he had gotten married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Colombian?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:273", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.919886855456082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But there had never been a Peace Corps volunteer there before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a couple. There was a guy and he had gotten married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Colombian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, to an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now there were four of you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:275", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.466540950506758, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there was a couple. There was a guy and he had gotten married."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To a Colombian?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, to an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now there were four of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, they were moving and that's why they were sent us. So I went from the, you know, plains to the mountains. And very overcast most of the year. Very, very cold climate. But I just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was cold all year long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:277", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.962823278340842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, to an American."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So now there were four of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, they were moving and that's why they were sent us. So I went from the, you know, plains to the mountains. And very overcast most of the year. Very, very cold climate. But I just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was cold all year long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much so. There were some nice spring days, you know, part of the year. But you know, basically it was pretty cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here you are, a Florida Miami Beach boy and then you're up in cold mountains."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:279", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4031369759342684, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. No, they were moving and that's why they were sent us. So I went from the, you know, plains to the mountains. And very overcast most of the year. Very, very cold climate. But I just, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was cold all year long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much so. There were some nice spring days, you know, part of the year. But you know, basically it was pretty cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here you are, a Florida Miami Beach boy and then you're up in cold mountains."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah, the climate where I went to eventually to El Carmen was more like the winters of New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it can be quite chilly."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:281", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.892374417704742, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, pretty much so. There were some nice spring days, you know, part of the year. But you know, basically it was pretty cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And here you are, a Florida Miami Beach boy and then you're up in cold mountains."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah, the climate where I went to eventually to El Carmen was more like the winters of New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it can be quite chilly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, overcast and cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd like to just interrupt the interview to tell the listener that it is February 4th here in New Orleans."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:283", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.435971575227491, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yeah, the climate where I went to eventually to El Carmen was more like the winters of New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it can be quite chilly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, overcast and cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd like to just interrupt the interview to tell the listener that it is February 4th here in New Orleans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're shivering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's darn cold."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:285", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.928857305808323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, overcast and cold."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'd like to just interrupt the interview to tell the listener that it is February 4th here in New Orleans."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're shivering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's darn cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New Orleans is shivering, and that only means it's 40 or 50 degrees here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where, were you living with a family or were you living on a what?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:287", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.476508117564804, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You're shivering."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's darn cold."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New Orleans is shivering, and that only means it's 40 or 50 degrees here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where, were you living with a family or were you living on a what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We rented a little, like a little house. You know, the houses are built all together, you know, in a block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the village."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:289", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.085009019516448, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New Orleans is shivering, and that only means it's 40 or 50 degrees here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where, were you living with a family or were you living on a what?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We rented a little, like a little house. You know, the houses are built all together, you know, in a block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there's a wall separating one house from another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. They're all attached."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:291", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.650010021684943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We rented a little, like a little house. You know, the houses are built all together, you know, in a block."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the village."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, there's a wall separating one house from another."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. They're all attached."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the French Quarter here, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they two stories or are they single story?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:295", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.740753113191286, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like the French Quarter here, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are they two stories or are they single story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly one story and very Spanish style. But we had, we found a place. We lived for very short while in the place where the previous volunteers lived. And one of the previous volunteers was in our group, but he was made. The reason he moved, he was made, what are they? A leader, which meant he went around to all of the groups in the state that, you know, that had a Peace Corps volunteer. They call them states. I mean, we call it states, but it was that. Anyway. And the other guy got married and so he was going into another group where there were married couples that had recently come to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they lived in a place and we didn't particularly care for it. So we started looking around right away and we found another smaller, smaller place that had two bedrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps didn't find this for you. You shopped around on your own and you negotiated. And you're expected to pay for that out of your Peace Corps allowance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:297", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.267503459101429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly one story and very Spanish style. But we had, we found a place. We lived for very short while in the place where the previous volunteers lived. And one of the previous volunteers was in our group, but he was made. The reason he moved, he was made, what are they? A leader, which meant he went around to all of the groups in the state that, you know, that had a Peace Corps volunteer. They call them states. I mean, we call it states, but it was that. Anyway. And the other guy got married and so he was going into another group where there were married couples that had recently come to Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they lived in a place and we didn't particularly care for it. So we started looking around right away and we found another smaller, smaller place that had two bedrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps didn't find this for you. You shopped around on your own and you negotiated. And you're expected to pay for that out of your Peace Corps allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And that was a hundred dollars a month at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The equivalent of a hundred dollars?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:299", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.85278162122381, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So they lived in a place and we didn't particularly care for it. So we started looking around right away and we found another smaller, smaller place that had two bedrooms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps didn't find this for you. You shopped around on your own and you negotiated. And you're expected to pay for that out of your Peace Corps allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And that was a hundred dollars a month at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The equivalent of a hundred dollars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, equivalent of a hundred dollars a month. And yeah, it was in pesos, in Colombian pesos. And it was adequate, plenty adequate. We always, we would be able to save a little so that we could, you know, when we gathered enough time, we could go on little trips and what have you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived frugally."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:301", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.503090690248678, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And that was a hundred dollars a month at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The equivalent of a hundred dollars?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, equivalent of a hundred dollars a month. And yeah, it was in pesos, in Colombian pesos. And it was adequate, plenty adequate. We always, we would be able to save a little so that we could, you know, when we gathered enough time, we could go on little trips and what have you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived frugally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And it was very inexpensive to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You did your own shopping, your own cooking, you cooked for yourselves?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:303", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.8923229891651983, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, equivalent of a hundred dollars a month. And yeah, it was in pesos, in Colombian pesos. And it was adequate, plenty adequate. We always, we would be able to save a little so that we could, you know, when we gathered enough time, we could go on little trips and what have you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You lived frugally."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And it was very inexpensive to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You did your own shopping, your own cooking, you cooked for yourselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cooked. Yeah, I knew how to cook. So my partner and I lived together and I did most of the cooking. And then he left. He got sick. They tried to find out, but they finally sent them back to the States, here to New Orleans actually. There used to be a public, a United States public hospital here. And he stayed here for a few months and then they sent him to Washington. And I'm still in touch with him. But he had a psychological problem, I believe, and that was part of the problem. All of us had something go wrong while we were in Colombia. You know, I had a bout with some, you know, respiratory problems. But then they got, they cleared it up and, you know, no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're living, your little house then, like that first one, was it also attached to other houses on either side?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:305", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.324803321294665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And it was very inexpensive to live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. You did your own shopping, your own cooking, you cooked for yourselves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cooked. Yeah, I knew how to cook. So my partner and I lived together and I did most of the cooking. And then he left. He got sick. They tried to find out, but they finally sent them back to the States, here to New Orleans actually. There used to be a public, a United States public hospital here. And he stayed here for a few months and then they sent him to Washington. And I'm still in touch with him. But he had a psychological problem, I believe, and that was part of the problem. All of us had something go wrong while we were in Colombia. You know, I had a bout with some, you know, respiratory problems. But then they got, they cleared it up and, you know, no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're living, your little house then, like that first one, was it also attached to other houses on either side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, right. And this, very often in Colombia, they have the central patio type house, whereas all the rooms open onto the patio. Well, the house we moved into was, that we rented, found and rented. It was more like an apartment. Had two bedrooms and had a little place for a kitchen and an outside bathroom with a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:307", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.805337023660739, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I cooked. Yeah, I knew how to cook. So my partner and I lived together and I did most of the cooking. And then he left. He got sick. They tried to find out, but they finally sent them back to the States, here to New Orleans actually. There used to be a public, a United States public hospital here. And he stayed here for a few months and then they sent him to Washington. And I'm still in touch with him. But he had a psychological problem, I believe, and that was part of the problem. All of us had something go wrong while we were in Colombia. You know, I had a bout with some, you know, respiratory problems. But then they got, they cleared it up and, you know, no problem."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you're living, your little house then, like that first one, was it also attached to other houses on either side?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, right. And this, very often in Colombia, they have the central patio type house, whereas all the rooms open onto the patio. Well, the house we moved into was, that we rented, found and rented. It was more like an apartment. Had two bedrooms and had a little place for a kitchen and an outside bathroom with a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, a shower, but there was no doors or anything like that. So I mean, there were two guys. So no problem. And then they had this little walk-up thing that was, I guess it was that people would go up there and just sit and enjoy the view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sit on the roof?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:309", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.339263359623043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was, right. And this, very often in Colombia, they have the central patio type house, whereas all the rooms open onto the patio. Well, the house we moved into was, that we rented, found and rented. It was more like an apartment. Had two bedrooms and had a little place for a kitchen and an outside bathroom with a shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, a shower, but there was no doors or anything like that. So I mean, there were two guys. So no problem. And then they had this little walk-up thing that was, I guess it was that people would go up there and just sit and enjoy the view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sit on the roof?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a cover. It had a like a, um, what do they call these things that they put outside made out of wood, you know? They were like an umbrella type thing, but only made out of wood and had a roof so you could sit out in the open air. But it wasn't closed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the word is escaping me too, but I know what you mean."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:311", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.821403732914492, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, a shower, but there was no doors or anything like that. So I mean, there were two guys. So no problem. And then they had this little walk-up thing that was, I guess it was that people would go up there and just sit and enjoy the view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sit on the roof?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a cover. It had a like a, um, what do they call these things that they put outside made out of wood, you know? They were like an umbrella type thing, but only made out of wood and had a roof so you could sit out in the open air. But it wasn't closed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the word is escaping me too, but I know what you mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so, uh, we hardly ever used that. But we, in spite of the fact that there were only three rooms, there was a room that we used for reading and listening to music, etc., once we got some music. But we had this little kitchen and we had a Bunsen burner and you know, something, you know, very primitive type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a camp stove or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:313", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.35711525879388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it had a cover. It had a like a, um, what do they call these things that they put outside made out of wood, you know? They were like an umbrella type thing, but only made out of wood and had a roof so you could sit out in the open air. But it wasn't closed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the word is escaping me too, but I know what you mean."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so, uh, we hardly ever used that. But we, in spite of the fact that there were only three rooms, there was a room that we used for reading and listening to music, etc., once we got some music. But we had this little kitchen and we had a Bunsen burner and you know, something, you know, very primitive type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a camp stove or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried, yeah, camp stove. That's what exactly what it was. But we made do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have running water?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:315", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9523502875487555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And so, uh, we hardly ever used that. But we, in spite of the fact that there were only three rooms, there was a room that we used for reading and listening to music, etc., once we got some music. But we had this little kitchen and we had a Bunsen burner and you know, something, you know, very primitive type."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Like a camp stove or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried, yeah, camp stove. That's what exactly what it was. But we made do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have running water for the kitchen, and for the shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you drink it? Oh, and you had a toilet too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:317", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.613722541720839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We tried, yeah, camp stove. That's what exactly what it was. But we made do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have running water?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have running water for the kitchen, and for the shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you drink it? Oh, and you had a toilet too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. We had to boil the water. We had to boil the water. And even though the natives all drank the water, they told us, make sure you boil the water. And we had, well, of course, Colombia was famous for their beer, so we drank a lot of beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no worries about having to boil that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:319", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.348580601912043, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did have running water for the kitchen, and for the shower."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you drink it? Oh, and you had a toilet too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. We had to boil the water. We had to boil the water. And even though the natives all drank the water, they told us, make sure you boil the water. And we had, well, of course, Colombia was famous for their beer, so we drank a lot of beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no worries about having to boil that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And that was one thing we didn't have to worry about. But so and it was right near the center of town, the central plaza, down about half a block away. And it was, it accommodated us very well. I stayed and I lost my partner. They tried to bring in other people, see if they wanted to stay in that. I don't know. They had more of a decision, the people that followed us, than we did. We were sent to, you know, a place and we were there until, you know, something serious came up that we transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you spent the rest of your two years there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:321", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.165089557680048, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. We had to boil the water. We had to boil the water. And even though the natives all drank the water, they told us, make sure you boil the water. And we had, well, of course, Colombia was famous for their beer, so we drank a lot of beer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, no worries about having to boil that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And that was one thing we didn't have to worry about. But so and it was right near the center of town, the central plaza, down about half a block away. And it was, it accommodated us very well. I stayed and I lost my partner. They tried to bring in other people, see if they wanted to stay in that. I don't know. They had more of a decision, the people that followed us, than we did. We were sent to, you know, a place and we were there until, you know, something serious came up that we transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you spent the rest of your two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get lonely when your partner was called away?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:323", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 9.072321730755608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And that was one thing we didn't have to worry about. But so and it was right near the center of town, the central plaza, down about half a block away. And it was, it accommodated us very well. I stayed and I lost my partner. They tried to bring in other people, see if they wanted to stay in that. I don't know. They had more of a decision, the people that followed us, than we did. We were sent to, you know, a place and we were there until, you know, something serious came up that we transferred."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But you spent the rest of your two years there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get lonely when your partner was called away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the rest of the time, you were alone there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:325", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.7470241452840085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you get lonely when your partner was called away?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Somewhat."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the rest of the time, you were alone there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. Um, we had two and a half days a month, as I recall, for free time. So at least once a month, we go into Medellin, the capital of Antioquia, which is the department that we were in, the state, and we would see other Peace Corps volunteers then. Once in a while, Peace Corps volunteer would come out and visit us. You know, another Peace Corps volunteer in another village. I didn't do that very often, but a lot of, a number of people came to my village. And sometimes several would come. And then we'd have a party with some Colombian, with the comments, in our little house. But, you know, just drinking beer and getting to know you and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long a journey was it from El Carmen? How do you say it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:329", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.095091537387664, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not so much. Um, we had two and a half days a month, as I recall, for free time. So at least once a month, we go into Medellin, the capital of Antioquia, which is the department that we were in, the state, and we would see other Peace Corps volunteers then. Once in a while, Peace Corps volunteer would come out and visit us. You know, another Peace Corps volunteer in another village. I didn't do that very often, but a lot of, a number of people came to my village. And sometimes several would come. And then we'd have a party with some Colombian, with the comments, in our little house. But, you know, just drinking beer and getting to know you and all that stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So how long a journey was it from El Carmen? How do you say it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "De Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "De Vivoral."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's with a B. In Spanish, they say B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you to get from your village into Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:331", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.883435041541849, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "De Viboral."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "De Vivoral."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's with a B. In Spanish, they say B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you to get from your village into Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, took about, on a collectivo, which is a bus, an old United States school bus, made into open air type thing where you get on and you slide down to the other side and people follow you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still yellow on the outside?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:333", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.759372268379831, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's with a B. In Spanish, they say B."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And how long did it take you to get from your village into Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, took about, on a collectivo, which is a bus, an old United States school bus, made into open air type thing where you get on and you slide down to the other side and people follow you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still yellow on the outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were, but many of them were painted. And then they, uh, you know, I was way up high and Medellin was way down in the valley. And so it was very treacherous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what you mean by sliding down."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:335", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.732635853755367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ok, took about, on a collectivo, which is a bus, an old United States school bus, made into open air type thing where you get on and you slide down to the other side and people follow you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it still yellow on the outside?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were, but many of them were painted. And then they, uh, you know, I was way up high and Medellin was way down in the valley. And so it was very treacherous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what you mean by sliding down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was lots of crosses on the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning deaths where somebody died?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:337", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.591817615283741, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot of them were, but many of them were painted. And then they, uh, you know, I was way up high and Medellin was way down in the valley. And so it was very treacherous."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's what you mean by sliding down."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was lots of crosses on the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning deaths where somebody died?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in an accident. Yeah. And so, but uh, and it took about an hour, maybe an hour and a half to get from my village to, in one of those. It was, um. And you know, it wasn't expensive at all, you know, and there was a village in between that where they had, was a larger village. And that is where I would go often to get like meat and things like that, you know, to cook. Because they didn't always have meat in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh huh."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:339", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.435352905870824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it was lots of crosses on the way down."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Meaning deaths where somebody died?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in an accident. Yeah. And so, but uh, and it took about an hour, maybe an hour and a half to get from my village to, in one of those. It was, um. And you know, it wasn't expensive at all, you know, and there was a village in between that where they had, was a larger village. And that is where I would go often to get like meat and things like that, you know, to cook. Because they didn't always have meat in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But um, it was not difficult. I mean, that little town was only maybe 15 minutes away, you know, so you could get a collectivo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a bicycle or motorcycle?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:341", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.26150322874536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, in an accident. Yeah. And so, but uh, and it took about an hour, maybe an hour and a half to get from my village to, in one of those. It was, um. And you know, it wasn't expensive at all, you know, and there was a village in between that where they had, was a larger village. And that is where I would go often to get like meat and things like that, you know, to cook. Because they didn't always have meat in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Uh huh."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But um, it was not difficult. I mean, that little town was only maybe 15 minutes away, you know, so you could get a collectivo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a bicycle or motorcycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In the middle of my stay, someone in Minnesota or someplace donated a bunch of, um, trail bikes and they sent me one, a trail bike. Because I had the roads that I could hop to my, the little villages where I worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which we'll talk about in a little while."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:343", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.17944803193929, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But um, it was not difficult. I mean, that little town was only maybe 15 minutes away, you know, so you could get a collectivo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have a bicycle or motorcycle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. In the middle of my stay, someone in Minnesota or someplace donated a bunch of, um, trail bikes and they sent me one, a trail bike. Because I had the roads that I could hop to my, the little villages where I worked."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Which we'll talk about in a little while."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I had one of those. But I had a horse and that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had a horse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:347", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.986972878937394, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so I had one of those. But I had a horse and that's why."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you had a horse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had a horse. His name was Tarzan. I was inherited it from the previous volunteer that was there. And he, uh. But you could rent a horse, too. There were horses that someone could, you know, if you wanted to go out into the boondocks, as we called it. But I mean, it was like, you know, a group of people living in a way out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very isolated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But I had this, and this was probably the last year of my service. I had this little motor scooter or motorbike. So I could get into the next town. But I rarely, if ever, I don't remember ever taking it to Medellin because that was pretty much further trip and then you have to have someplace to secure it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. But if you have a horse, you have to have some place to park your horse. And you have to feed the horse."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:349", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.985525421041547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had a horse. His name was Tarzan. I was inherited it from the previous volunteer that was there. And he, uh. But you could rent a horse, too. There were horses that someone could, you know, if you wanted to go out into the boondocks, as we called it. But I mean, it was like, you know, a group of people living in a way out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very isolated."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But I had this, and this was probably the last year of my service. I had this little motor scooter or motorbike. So I could get into the next town. But I rarely, if ever, I don't remember ever taking it to Medellin because that was pretty much further trip and then you have to have someplace to secure it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. But if you have a horse, you have to have some place to park your horse. And you have to feed the horse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had to rent a little place to leave the horse that he could roam around. And then there was a little kid that came and visited us a lot. And I'd, you know, ask him if he would like to take the feed out, to feed him on a regular basis. And then I'd pay them, you know, a little bit. And uh, this was more than he'd ever get, you know, at home. Or, I mean, it's very poor, poor situation. And so he would, he would help out with that. But then I once in a while, I'd have to go out, you know, I'd go out and look at the horse, and I said, this horse isn't eating. And I was thinking that maybe the food wasn't getting to him. But uh, but he survived, you know? When I left, they took the horse and sold it. They did not put in a new volunteer in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you. So the expense of maintaining that horse, paying the kid to watch the horse and buying the food, would have also come out of your hundred dollars a month living allowance?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:351", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.09502824560172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. But I had this, and this was probably the last year of my service. I had this little motor scooter or motorbike. So I could get into the next town. But I rarely, if ever, I don't remember ever taking it to Medellin because that was pretty much further trip and then you have to have someplace to secure it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. That's right. But if you have a horse, you have to have some place to park your horse. And you have to feed the horse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had to rent a little place to leave the horse that he could roam around. And then there was a little kid that came and visited us a lot. And I'd, you know, ask him if he would like to take the feed out, to feed him on a regular basis. And then I'd pay them, you know, a little bit. And uh, this was more than he'd ever get, you know, at home. Or, I mean, it's very poor, poor situation. And so he would, he would help out with that. But then I once in a while, I'd have to go out, you know, I'd go out and look at the horse, and I said, this horse isn't eating. And I was thinking that maybe the food wasn't getting to him. But uh, but he survived, you know? When I left, they took the horse and sold it. They did not put in a new volunteer in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you. So the expense of maintaining that horse, paying the kid to watch the horse and buying the food, would have also come out of your hundred dollars a month living allowance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm still trying to get a picture of your house. Did you have, we didn't talk about electricity. Did you have a light bulb in there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:355", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.524726229137925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm still trying to get a picture of your house. Did you have, we didn't talk about electricity. Did you have a light bulb in there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There was electricity for two hours on Wednesdays. So if you wanted, and then they expanded it to more days, I can't remember how many days, but we used a lot of candlelight and oil lanterns. But the center, the center of town where the plaza was, where the church was and then the government offices. And then there were a few saloons, you know, like drinking places and food places. Only two perhaps in the whole village. And so on the nights we didn't have, uh, we didn't have electricity and we didn't want to stay in, we'd go down to the canteens and, you know, have a drink with the people. Well, that's what we're supposed to be doing anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right, socialize with the people."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yeah, supposed to get to know these people. And they had a drink called aguardiente, which is like a what you might say, firewater. And it was pure alcohol. You know, it was like taking a bottle of alcohol you used on your skin. And they always wanted to challenge you to, you know, drink that stuff. It was awful, but they are very. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about, um, going into town to socialize and one of the reasons that made it, um, an attractive option is that you didn't have electricity at home except for a couple of hours on Wednesdays. And before we get back into the bar and the aguardiente and the rum, I just want to finish getting a handle of your living arrangements. You're living in this house. And it was more like an apartment. What was it made of? Was it wooden? Was it brick?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:359", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.289785468071512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were, yeah, supposed to get to know these people. And they had a drink called aguardiente, which is like a what you might say, firewater. And it was pure alcohol. You know, it was like taking a bottle of alcohol you used on your skin. And they always wanted to challenge you to, you know, drink that stuff. It was awful, but they are very. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were talking about, um, going into town to socialize and one of the reasons that made it, um, an attractive option is that you didn't have electricity at home except for a couple of hours on Wednesdays. And before we get back into the bar and the aguardiente and the rum, I just want to finish getting a handle of your living arrangements. You're living in this house. And it was more like an apartment. What was it made of? Was it wooden? Was it brick?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was made out of brick. And it was, uh, it was pretty primitive, but made of brick and mortar. It was not, um, the floor was tile floor, you know? There were two industries in town, small industries. They made inexpensive dinnerware, ceramic dinnerware, which were sold in the five and ten type stores in Colombia. And that was the one and only big industry in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could you bake in it or was there some danger of the lead or whatever in the glaze?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think, yeah, there was a caution that we had to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an oven?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:361", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.32198385341279, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was made out of brick. And it was, uh, it was pretty primitive, but made of brick and mortar. It was not, um, the floor was tile floor, you know? There were two industries in town, small industries. They made inexpensive dinnerware, ceramic dinnerware, which were sold in the five and ten type stores in Colombia. And that was the one and only big industry in the town."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And could you bake in it or was there some danger of the lead or whatever in the glaze?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think, yeah, there was a caution that we had to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an oven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I bought an oven. It was a very interesting contraption. It was like, oh, something, I guess maybe you might find out in a campsite. A metal square or metal frame thing and it had a wire at the bottom of it I believe that, you know, got electricity. So at the one time when we had electricity, I could cook in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to really plan ahead."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:363", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 11.468870948236434, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think, yeah, there was a caution that we had to take."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have an oven?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I bought an oven. It was a very interesting contraption. It was like, oh, something, I guess maybe you might find out in a campsite. A metal square or metal frame thing and it had a wire at the bottom of it I believe that, you know, got electricity. So at the one time when we had electricity, I could cook in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to really plan ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, right. But we did have a burner, a Bunsen burner type camp stove that we could cook in other times, you know, but like if I bought a little piece of roast or something like that, like roast beef, I could cook it in the oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then without electricity, you mentioned music eventually, but without. So you would have had a battery operated record player or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:365", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.298745498040482, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I bought an oven. It was a very interesting contraption. It was like, oh, something, I guess maybe you might find out in a campsite. A metal square or metal frame thing and it had a wire at the bottom of it I believe that, you know, got electricity. So at the one time when we had electricity, I could cook in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You'd have to really plan ahead."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, right. But we did have a burner, a Bunsen burner type camp stove that we could cook in other times, you know, but like if I bought a little piece of roast or something like that, like roast beef, I could cook it in the oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then without electricity, you mentioned music eventually, but without. So you would have had a battery operated record player or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had. I got it. Once we got electricity, probably by the second year we were there, we got electricity. And electricity on a more regular basis, but not full time. I think we got it on every day of the week, every night of the week, it went on a certain time at night. And then I could, I bought a little record player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you brought records from home or were you listening to local?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:367", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.10971722004498, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, right. But we did have a burner, a Bunsen burner type camp stove that we could cook in other times, you know, but like if I bought a little piece of roast or something like that, like roast beef, I could cook it in the oven."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then without electricity, you mentioned music eventually, but without. So you would have had a battery operated record player or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had. I got it. Once we got electricity, probably by the second year we were there, we got electricity. And electricity on a more regular basis, but not full time. I think we got it on every day of the week, every night of the week, it went on a certain time at night. And then I could, I bought a little record player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you brought records from home or were you listening to local?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked my brother, a brother here. I had some records here in New Orleans in his apartment. And so he sent me them. It took it took forever to get here, but he sent them to me. And then there was, um, when you went to Medellin, there were. Medellin was a pretty cosmopolitan city. And they had some, uh, some places where they sold records, you know, I suppose, especially Spanish, Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So did you get into Colombian music?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:369", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.010796911161087, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, I had. I got it. Once we got electricity, probably by the second year we were there, we got electricity. And electricity on a more regular basis, but not full time. I think we got it on every day of the week, every night of the week, it went on a certain time at night. And then I could, I bought a little record player."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had you brought records from home or were you listening to local?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked my brother, a brother here. I had some records here in New Orleans in his apartment. And so he sent me them. It took it took forever to get here, but he sent them to me. And then there was, um, when you went to Medellin, there were. Medellin was a pretty cosmopolitan city. And they had some, uh, some places where they sold records, you know, I suppose, especially Spanish, Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So did you get into Colombian music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, pretty much, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dancing the cumbia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:371", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.5675521235123195, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I asked my brother, a brother here. I had some records here in New Orleans in his apartment. And so he sent me them. It took it took forever to get here, but he sent them to me. And then there was, um, when you went to Medellin, there were. Medellin was a pretty cosmopolitan city. And they had some, uh, some places where they sold records, you know, I suppose, especially Spanish, Latin."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So did you get into Colombian music?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, pretty much, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dancing the cumbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the cumbia. Oh yeah, we were big in cumbia and we were also, uh, whenever there was festivals, there was a lot of dancing in Colombia, you know, the festival. Whether they were church oriented or otherwise, you know, there was dancing and everyone there, very happy people, you know, very happy go lucky people, you know, they love. Their famous expression was \"puente,\" which meant that a national holiday arrived on a Thursday or Friday, and then you had the whole weekend and they'd call it a bridge. Puente means bridge. And so you took advantage of the holiday to combine it with the weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I can just imagine that if it was a holiday on the Thursday, then why on earth would you even think about going to work on Friday?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:373", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.1861690261248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, yeah, pretty much, because."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dancing the cumbia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the cumbia. Oh yeah, we were big in cumbia and we were also, uh, whenever there was festivals, there was a lot of dancing in Colombia, you know, the festival. Whether they were church oriented or otherwise, you know, there was dancing and everyone there, very happy people, you know, very happy go lucky people, you know, they love. Their famous expression was \"puente,\" which meant that a national holiday arrived on a Thursday or Friday, and then you had the whole weekend and they'd call it a bridge. Puente means bridge. And so you took advantage of the holiday to combine it with the weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I can just imagine that if it was a holiday on the Thursday, then why on earth would you even think about going to work on Friday?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Very much like New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you talked about reading a little bit. You mentioned reading. Did Peace Corps provide you with a book locker?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:375", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.873521140138666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, the cumbia. Oh yeah, we were big in cumbia and we were also, uh, whenever there was festivals, there was a lot of dancing in Colombia, you know, the festival. Whether they were church oriented or otherwise, you know, there was dancing and everyone there, very happy people, you know, very happy go lucky people, you know, they love. Their famous expression was \"puente,\" which meant that a national holiday arrived on a Thursday or Friday, and then you had the whole weekend and they'd call it a bridge. Puente means bridge. And so you took advantage of the holiday to combine it with the weekend."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure, I can just imagine that if it was a holiday on the Thursday, then why on earth would you even think about going to work on Friday?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Exactly. Very much like New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you talked about reading a little bit. You mentioned reading. Did Peace Corps provide you with a book locker?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did give us a whole locker of books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today, you know, they don't do that. Can you describe what a book locker was and what was in it?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:379", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.90558165449218, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did give us a whole locker of books."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Today, you know, they don't do that. Can you describe what a book locker was and what was in it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a regular, uh, you know? Two feet high, maybe two feet high and four feet long. You know, like they do in the army. And they send you a whole thing of books from, you know, any kind. Romance novels or, you know, the whole gamut. A dictionary was in it. And you know, a number of things. You might have brought some books with you too. But um, Medellin is the second largest city in the country, and it had a lot of bookstores and some in English and some, you know, a lot more in Spanish. So that was available to us. And the interesting part about one of my, one of my most enduring and important projects in my village was a town library. They never had a town library and there was a group of women who wanted to establish one. The idea of our, when we were in the Peace Corps, was that you went in and you got to know the people and then you try to get people to get together and decide what they wanted for their community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a group of women who wanted a library. And so we would meet once a week and we would discuss how we're going to implement this library. And we got a library eventually, with the help of. A lot of people from the village gave books. A lot of people that had left the village and lived in Bogota or Medellin or what have you, had sent books to our group, our library group. And I, of course, had to learn the Dewey Decimal System in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had an idea of that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:381", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.450646282769089, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was like a regular, uh, you know? Two feet high, maybe two feet high and four feet long. You know, like they do in the army. And they send you a whole thing of books from, you know, any kind. Romance novels or, you know, the whole gamut. A dictionary was in it. And you know, a number of things. You might have brought some books with you too. But um, Medellin is the second largest city in the country, and it had a lot of bookstores and some in English and some, you know, a lot more in Spanish. So that was available to us. And the interesting part about one of my, one of my most enduring and important projects in my village was a town library. They never had a town library and there was a group of women who wanted to establish one. The idea of our, when we were in the Peace Corps, was that you went in and you got to know the people and then you try to get people to get together and decide what they wanted for their community."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a group of women who wanted a library. And so we would meet once a week and we would discuss how we're going to implement this library. And we got a library eventually, with the help of. A lot of people from the village gave books. A lot of people that had left the village and lived in Bogota or Medellin or what have you, had sent books to our group, our library group. And I, of course, had to learn the Dewey Decimal System in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had an idea of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we tried to set it up the same way. And eventually we collected over five hundred books and we opened the library. The priest gave us a little room next to the church that we could use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to rent the space?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:383", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.05627364752121, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And there was a group of women who wanted a library. And so we would meet once a week and we would discuss how we're going to implement this library. And we got a library eventually, with the help of. A lot of people from the village gave books. A lot of people that had left the village and lived in Bogota or Medellin or what have you, had sent books to our group, our library group. And I, of course, had to learn the Dewey Decimal System in college."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you had an idea of that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we tried to set it up the same way. And eventually we collected over five hundred books and we opened the library. The priest gave us a little room next to the church that we could use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to rent the space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fix it up a little bit maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:385", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 6.729192941690233, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And so we tried to set it up the same way. And eventually we collected over five hundred books and we opened the library. The priest gave us a little room next to the church that we could use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't have to rent the space?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fix it up a little bit maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So yeah, it was. We just had to get some chairs and some shelving and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were those donated? Did people build the shelves?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:387", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.032436601878037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just fix it up a little bit maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So yeah, it was. We just had to get some chairs and some shelving and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were those donated? Did people build the shelves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, basically donated labor. Yeah, right. And we got the library set up not too long before I was about ready to leave. And we finally got it done. But we got a lot of help from the Pan-American Union. They supplied us with books and they supplied us with sources for books and. The Pan-American. What did they call it, Pan-American? I don't think it's any longer in existence, but Pan-American something. League? Anyway, it was a United States effort to work with Latin American countries in this hemisphere. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to have a staff person who would be trained and keep the bookshelves in order?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:389", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.369374002086708, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So yeah, it was. We just had to get some chairs and some shelving and things like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were those donated? Did people build the shelves?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, basically donated labor. Yeah, right. And we got the library set up not too long before I was about ready to leave. And we finally got it done. But we got a lot of help from the Pan-American Union. They supplied us with books and they supplied us with sources for books and. The Pan-American. What did they call it, Pan-American? I don't think it's any longer in existence, but Pan-American something. League? Anyway, it was a United States effort to work with Latin American countries in this hemisphere. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to have a staff person who would be trained and keep the bookshelves in order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, that was completely volunteer. The women that were on the committee, right? So and it was rather successful, and the priest was very much in favor of it. He donated the room for the. He wasn't always that favorable about things we did. But that one he did. And well, there are so many women. They were all women, but they were my age. They were graduates from the collego, the high school. Women and nuns taught it. And so. And we had, you know, quite a group. We had a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how did you get that going? How did you find the people? How did you identify which people you would sit down with and start organizing this library?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:391", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.743748891207453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, basically donated labor. Yeah, right. And we got the library set up not too long before I was about ready to leave. And we finally got it done. But we got a lot of help from the Pan-American Union. They supplied us with books and they supplied us with sources for books and. The Pan-American. What did they call it, Pan-American? I don't think it's any longer in existence, but Pan-American something. League? Anyway, it was a United States effort to work with Latin American countries in this hemisphere. Anyway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you have to have a staff person who would be trained and keep the bookshelves in order?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, that was completely volunteer. The women that were on the committee, right? So and it was rather successful, and the priest was very much in favor of it. He donated the room for the. He wasn't always that favorable about things we did. But that one he did. And well, there are so many women. They were all women, but they were my age. They were graduates from the collego, the high school. Women and nuns taught it. And so. And we had, you know, quite a group. We had a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how did you get that going? How did you find the people? How did you identify which people you would sit down with and start organizing this library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a, uh, our connection was with the Department of Health. So we worked with the people that were sent out here as extension workers like, to work in villages like ours, to establish health programs, you know, teach people how to, you know, make, you know, utilize what's available to them as well as, whatever, you know, the health questions, help answer health questions, programs, etc. Anyway, so I went. So my Colombian co-partner was from the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did. You had a Colombian counterpart."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:393", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.159720990230503, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, no, that was completely volunteer. The women that were on the committee, right? So and it was rather successful, and the priest was very much in favor of it. He donated the room for the. He wasn't always that favorable about things we did. But that one he did. And well, there are so many women. They were all women, but they were my age. They were graduates from the collego, the high school. Women and nuns taught it. And so. And we had, you know, quite a group. We had a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now how did you get that going? How did you find the people? How did you identify which people you would sit down with and start organizing this library?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a, uh, our connection was with the Department of Health. So we worked with the people that were sent out here as extension workers like, to work in villages like ours, to establish health programs, you know, teach people how to, you know, make, you know, utilize what's available to them as well as, whatever, you know, the health questions, help answer health questions, programs, etc. Anyway, so I went. So my Colombian co-partner was from the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did. You had a Colombian counterpart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he was, you know, it was an off and on relationship because he had much more work to do that was more, not hands-on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he live in El Carmen?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:395", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.621912211367225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a, uh, our connection was with the Department of Health. So we worked with the people that were sent out here as extension workers like, to work in villages like ours, to establish health programs, you know, teach people how to, you know, make, you know, utilize what's available to them as well as, whatever, you know, the health questions, help answer health questions, programs, etc. Anyway, so I went. So my Colombian co-partner was from the Department of Health."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did. You had a Colombian counterpart."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he was, you know, it was an off and on relationship because he had much more work to do that was more, not hands-on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he live in El Carmen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he did. He did live in El Carmen, but he was gone quite a bit. But anyway, then they had volunteers. And these were the women that volunteered for the health department. And they, I got to know them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they were the ones who came up with this idea."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:397", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.024346901519139, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And he was, you know, it was an off and on relationship because he had much more work to do that was more, not hands-on, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did he live in El Carmen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, he did. He did live in El Carmen, but he was gone quite a bit. But anyway, then they had volunteers. And these were the women that volunteered for the health department. And they, I got to know them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then they were the ones who came up with this idea."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they came up with the idea. We want a library. And we have meetings and then Barry and I would cook something, you know, for them, something that they are not familiar with. Like spaghetti and meatballs. And they loved it, you know, because they had never had that. You know, I can't think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what would have been the typical diet of people living in your village?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:401", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.968329508048319, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they came up with the idea. We want a library. And we have meetings and then Barry and I would cook something, you know, for them, something that they are not familiar with. Like spaghetti and meatballs. And they loved it, you know, because they had never had that. You know, I can't think of any."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, what would have been the typical diet of people living in your village?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yucca is a big, that's a root. And that is like a, what do they call them, red potato? What is red potato?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A yam?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A yam, yeah. It's like a yam, but lighter in texture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, could it also be sometimes called manioc or cassava?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:405", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7880611210473063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A yam, yeah. It's like a yam, but lighter in texture."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, could it also be sometimes called manioc or cassava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maniac is a little tougher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Cassava? I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a white tuber."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:407", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.208956801163674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Maniac is a little tougher."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Cassava? I can't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a white tuber."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We ate that in Nigeria, and I think I've heard people say that yucca is something like what you were eating across the sea, which doesn't have a lot of nutritional value."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:411", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.196242964399596, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We ate that in Nigeria, and I think I've heard people say that yucca is something like what you were eating across the sea, which doesn't have a lot of nutritional value."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no, no. Potatoes were farmed. Tomatoes were farmed. And a number of vegetables. So I'm trying to think. A lot of soup. You know, soup was a very popular thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Onion? Garlic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. Or chicken. But you know, one chicken for a lot of soup. And then, um, so chicken was made and then they might serve the chicken separately. And yucca as the main dish, and the soup was extra. But it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the yucca would be sliced or mashed or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:417", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.016794189848555, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you know, it would in many, many ways, many ways. But very often it was in pieces and very often in soup. Rice was very, very, very popular. Rice was very popular. And um, let me think about what else? It's a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Anything green?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not much. Not very much at all. Um, I can't remember any spinach being grown or lettuce or anything like that. That is a very tough product to grow. I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, lettuce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we don't even grow it here I don't think. I think it's too hot. I think you have to have, you know, California weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We grow it in Wisconsin."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:419", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 6.685326877609505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uh, not much. Not very much at all. Um, I can't remember any spinach being grown or lettuce or anything like that. That is a very tough product to grow. I mean, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, lettuce?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we don't even grow it here I don't think. I think it's too hot. I think you have to have, you know, California weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We grow it in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, in Wisconsin, probably. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the food was really one of the biggest drawbacks, and that's why we resorted to, I resorted to, you know, cooking myself. There was like a hostel in my village where they called it a hotel, but it was hardly a hotel. But it was, you know, they had, the main dish was chicken soup, you know, and very little parts of chicken, mostly broth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to keep yourself healthy, you would go and purchase some kind of meat maybe?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:421", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.094807641788338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we don't even grow it here I don't think. I think it's too hot. I think you have to have, you know, California weather."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We grow it in Wisconsin."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yeah, in Wisconsin, probably. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the food was really one of the biggest drawbacks, and that's why we resorted to, I resorted to, you know, cooking myself. There was like a hostel in my village where they called it a hotel, but it was hardly a hotel. But it was, you know, they had, the main dish was chicken soup, you know, and very little parts of chicken, mostly broth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So to keep yourself healthy, you would go and purchase some kind of meat maybe?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fruit and vegetables from the market, they had market every Saturday. So people brought in stuff from the farms surrounding the people. So you could buy. And then in this little village that was close by, a larger village than mine. A famous village too, Rionegro it was called. Black River. Famous in history of Colombia. But anyway, they had not only a butcher, but they had a much, much better market, farmer's market. So you could go in there. So you know, it was, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you see yourself as, um, trying to expand the choices that people would make when they're shopping to get more healthier food?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:425", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.055318076281899, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fruit and vegetables from the market, they had market every Saturday. So people brought in stuff from the farms surrounding the people. So you could buy. And then in this little village that was close by, a larger village than mine. A famous village too, Rionegro it was called. Black River. Famous in history of Colombia. But anyway, they had not only a butcher, but they had a much, much better market, farmer's market. So you could go in there. So you know, it was, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did you see yourself as, um, trying to expand the choices that people would make when they're shopping to get more healthier food?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One, uh, yeah. We were, like we had gone out into a very rural village, rural area. We call anything that was outside of our village rural. The village wasn't much more, but they were clustered together. I mean, my village was clustered. There were ten thousand people in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so it was spread out pretty much. But outside of that, you know, everything was, you know, just groups of people that had settled outside due to farming land and survive. And so we had a tomato co-op that we had grown, that we started, with some farmers that, you know, were interested in growing tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they hadn't grown tomatoes before?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:427", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.617020084757665, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. One, uh, yeah. We were, like we had gone out into a very rural village, rural area. We call anything that was outside of our village rural. The village wasn't much more, but they were clustered together. I mean, my village was clustered. There were ten thousand people in my village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so it was spread out pretty much. But outside of that, you know, everything was, you know, just groups of people that had settled outside due to farming land and survive. And so we had a tomato co-op that we had grown, that we started, with some farmers that, you know, were interested in growing tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they hadn't grown tomatoes before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, they did, but on a very small basis, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the co-op was an idea to help them grow more efficiently and get things to market cooperatively."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:429", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.241133427508516, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, so it was spread out pretty much. But outside of that, you know, everything was, you know, just groups of people that had settled outside due to farming land and survive. And so we had a tomato co-op that we had grown, that we started, with some farmers that, you know, were interested in growing tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they hadn't grown tomatoes before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, they did, but on a very small basis, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the co-op was an idea to help them grow more efficiently and get things to market cooperatively."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And then we had these excursions by the health department to go out to a village that we could do demonstrations. And I especially remember, the reason I remember is because I have a photo of a group of us going out there, the other people. Some of the library crowd and my counterpart and anyway and the nurse from the Department of Health and the doctor. And we all went out to this village, to this little not much of a village, but it was a cluster of people, and we demonstrated on how to cook rabbit. And so there were rabbits, a lot of rabbits in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rabbits were plentiful. Ok. That's a good source of protein."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:431", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.712370475009462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no, they did, but on a very small basis, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So the co-op was an idea to help them grow more efficiently and get things to market cooperatively."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And then we had these excursions by the health department to go out to a village that we could do demonstrations. And I especially remember, the reason I remember is because I have a photo of a group of us going out there, the other people. Some of the library crowd and my counterpart and anyway and the nurse from the Department of Health and the doctor. And we all went out to this village, to this little not much of a village, but it was a cluster of people, and we demonstrated on how to cook rabbit. And so there were rabbits, a lot of rabbits in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rabbits were plentiful. Ok. That's a good source of protein."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And because you know, the way. They lived off the land and they would come in on a Saturday because that was market day and buy stuff that the farmers brought in. And then they would, they buy enough, you know, like we do, for a week until the next market. The thing is, they would, um, most of the time resort to making the most simple things, you know, back in their own homes, you know? So we were trying to get them to eat a little bit more nutrition and we mixed in some vegetables with that rabbit demonstration. But um, it was uh, it's hard to try to change people's habits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, that's a part of it. What one eats is part of one's culture."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:433", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2359671944549575, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And then we had these excursions by the health department to go out to a village that we could do demonstrations. And I especially remember, the reason I remember is because I have a photo of a group of us going out there, the other people. Some of the library crowd and my counterpart and anyway and the nurse from the Department of Health and the doctor. And we all went out to this village, to this little not much of a village, but it was a cluster of people, and we demonstrated on how to cook rabbit. And so there were rabbits, a lot of rabbits in the area."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rabbits were plentiful. Ok. That's a good source of protein."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And because you know, the way. They lived off the land and they would come in on a Saturday because that was market day and buy stuff that the farmers brought in. And then they would, they buy enough, you know, like we do, for a week until the next market. The thing is, they would, um, most of the time resort to making the most simple things, you know, back in their own homes, you know? So we were trying to get them to eat a little bit more nutrition and we mixed in some vegetables with that rabbit demonstration. But um, it was uh, it's hard to try to change people's habits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, that's a part of it. What one eats is part of one's culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. And they were very big on rice. Very big, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably white polished rice."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:435", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.8177413271721745, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And because you know, the way. They lived off the land and they would come in on a Saturday because that was market day and buy stuff that the farmers brought in. And then they would, they buy enough, you know, like we do, for a week until the next market. The thing is, they would, um, most of the time resort to making the most simple things, you know, back in their own homes, you know? So we were trying to get them to eat a little bit more nutrition and we mixed in some vegetables with that rabbit demonstration. But um, it was uh, it's hard to try to change people's habits."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, that's a part of it. What one eats is part of one's culture."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. And they were very big on rice. Very big, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably white polished rice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And when CARE sent me down a big thing of cornmeal, they fed it to the animals. They didn't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People don't eat that, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:437", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.353045919080194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. And they were very big on rice. Very big, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Probably white polished rice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And when CARE sent me down a big thing of cornmeal, they fed it to the animals. They didn't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People don't eat that, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I started showing them how to make cornbread, you know, because that was a Southern dish. And they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they? Oh good."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:439", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.947828798977993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And when CARE sent me down a big thing of cornmeal, they fed it to the animals. They didn't know what."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People don't eat that, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I started showing them how to make cornbread, you know, because that was a Southern dish. And they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they? Oh good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they loved it because it was something different and it was something in a way they were familiar with, but they, you know, just never developed their bread making."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Initially that came ready ground in a big bag."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:441", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.6086986655311035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So I started showing them how to make cornbread, you know, because that was a Southern dish. And they loved it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they? Oh good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they loved it because it was something different and it was something in a way they were familiar with, but they, you know, just never developed their bread making."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Initially that came ready ground in a big bag."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big sack, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then did they ever get into growing corn for their own consumption?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:443", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.342998517256781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they loved it because it was something different and it was something in a way they were familiar with, but they, you know, just never developed their bread making."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Initially that came ready ground in a big bag."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Big sack, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But then did they ever get into growing corn for their own consumption?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. They did grow corn, but they didn't. I don't think they ever grind it for cornmeal. And they fed it to their animals, a lot them did, because it was a low-grade corn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you'd have to have a mill. And if you didn't have a mill."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:449", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 8.838132396785706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And exactly. And they had, in some of the areas they had. I'm trying to think of where that was, but they an innovative mill where the horse would walk around in circles. Walk around in circles and grind the corn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did have that. I remember that now. I don't know where in the world that was. But uh, it's hard to remember now after 50 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the Peace Corps was one of the great experiences. I consider it one of the great experiences in my life, you know, wouldn't trade it for the world. But you still, you get older, you can't remember everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but we do remember a lot. So there's a few details."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:451", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.597924885317452, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they did have that. I remember that now. I don't know where in the world that was. But uh, it's hard to remember now after 50 years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the Peace Corps was one of the great experiences. I consider it one of the great experiences in my life, you know, wouldn't trade it for the world. But you still, you get older, you can't remember everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but we do remember a lot. So there's a few details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot more than we do of the, you know, the stuff we do here in the United States that, you know, just comes naturally, natural for us. I went back, you know, as a Crisis Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:453", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.108805428130502, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, the Peace Corps was one of the great experiences. I consider it one of the great experiences in my life, you know, wouldn't trade it for the world. But you still, you get older, you can't remember everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, but we do remember a lot. So there's a few details."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot more than we do of the, you know, the stuff we do here in the United States that, you know, just comes naturally, natural for us. I went back, you know, as a Crisis Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To El Salvador, after two big earthquakes in 2001. And I helped in construction because I had construction ability and, uh, it was interesting to see how some things have changed, but some things remain the same. You know, the Salvadoranians were not much different than the Colombians. And the thing I thought was really impressive was that the quality of volunteers was still very high and they were still very enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, those things remain the same."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:455", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.676450475700558, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A lot more than we do of the, you know, the stuff we do here in the United States that, you know, just comes naturally, natural for us. I went back, you know, as a Crisis Corps volunteer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, you did?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "To El Salvador, after two big earthquakes in 2001. And I helped in construction because I had construction ability and, uh, it was interesting to see how some things have changed, but some things remain the same. You know, the Salvadoranians were not much different than the Colombians. And the thing I thought was really impressive was that the quality of volunteers was still very high and they were still very enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, those things remain the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But a lot of the stuff was reminiscent of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were up there trying to, um, work more nutrition into people's diets and getting a co-op for the tomato growers and getting a library going, um. At any point, did you have the sense that, um, you were doing something that another Colombian could do just as well? Or did you have the sense that it needed to, that your work could be done uniquely by an American?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:459", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.773395649013035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But a lot of the stuff was reminiscent of Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were up there trying to, um, work more nutrition into people's diets and getting a co-op for the tomato growers and getting a library going, um. At any point, did you have the sense that, um, you were doing something that another Colombian could do just as well? Or did you have the sense that it needed to, that your work could be done uniquely by an American?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I think that what we came to realize was that Colombia, uh, was not developing very rapidly at the time because there was no interest in those people with the knowledge and the people without the knowledge, you know, to, you know, the people that there was not people. It was. When we came down, there was someone from Switzerland that was doing some work in that village. But I think that the Peace Corps, that was one of the contributions they were making, was that they were giving the people in all these villages all around Colombia the opportunity of a person with a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To show what a little bit. A little bit. Not a great deal. I have to admit it's not you're not changing the world, but a little bit of innovation that they could carry on when we were not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So yes, yes. And your counterpart, you already explained you're so very busy that he didn't. He really didn't have the time that you did to devote in such a very local focus."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:461", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.303772943347817, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I didn't. I think that what we came to realize was that Colombia, uh, was not developing very rapidly at the time because there was no interest in those people with the knowledge and the people without the knowledge, you know, to, you know, the people that there was not people. It was. When we came down, there was someone from Switzerland that was doing some work in that village. But I think that the Peace Corps, that was one of the contributions they were making, was that they were giving the people in all these villages all around Colombia the opportunity of a person with a different perspective."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To show what a little bit. A little bit. Not a great deal. I have to admit it's not you're not changing the world, but a little bit of innovation that they could carry on when we were not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So yes, yes. And your counterpart, you already explained you're so very busy that he didn't. He really didn't have the time that you did to devote in such a very local focus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he would leave a lot, you know, he would be gone. I don't know whether it was because of the work schedule or because, you know, I thought he was just goofing off. But, you know, and he was going back into Medellin, all the executives and all that. And so I think that the fact that we were there in the village 90 percent of the time, you know, and we were trying, you know, different things, you know. And just our presence was a big contribution to the life of Colombia because they had never known anyone to come into their village and live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And this is what an American is like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:463", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.893081048164241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To show what a little bit. A little bit. Not a great deal. I have to admit it's not you're not changing the world, but a little bit of innovation that they could carry on when we were not there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. So yes, yes. And your counterpart, you already explained you're so very busy that he didn't. He really didn't have the time that you did to devote in such a very local focus."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he would leave a lot, you know, he would be gone. I don't know whether it was because of the work schedule or because, you know, I thought he was just goofing off. But, you know, and he was going back into Medellin, all the executives and all that. And so I think that the fact that we were there in the village 90 percent of the time, you know, and we were trying, you know, different things, you know. And just our presence was a big contribution to the life of Colombia because they had never known anyone to come into their village and live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And this is what an American is like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they all thought I was half crazy too. Somewhat anyway. [coughs] I'm having terrible congestion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad we've got the water here. Do you want to take a little break? No? OK."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:465", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.547867831293601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And he would leave a lot, you know, he would be gone. I don't know whether it was because of the work schedule or because, you know, I thought he was just goofing off. But, you know, and he was going back into Medellin, all the executives and all that. And so I think that the fact that we were there in the village 90 percent of the time, you know, and we were trying, you know, different things, you know. And just our presence was a big contribution to the life of Colombia because they had never known anyone to come into their village and live."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And this is what an American is like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they all thought I was half crazy too. Somewhat anyway. [coughs] I'm having terrible congestion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad we've got the water here. Do you want to take a little break? No? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm fine. So the only thing. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your Spanish keep getting better? Obviously, it must be getting better and better the whole time."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:467", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.164297590326223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they all thought I was half crazy too. Somewhat anyway. [coughs] I'm having terrible congestion."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm glad we've got the water here. Do you want to take a little break? No? OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm fine. So the only thing. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your Spanish keep getting better? Obviously, it must be getting better and better the whole time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely it was, especially after I got into El Carmen because I lost my partner. And so once you stop talking to someone in English, you're on your own, you know. You have to speak Spanish, or you don't speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you might. So it sounds like you went weeks without speaking English, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:469", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.849219544806914, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm fine. So the only thing. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So did your Spanish keep getting better? Obviously, it must be getting better and better the whole time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely it was, especially after I got into El Carmen because I lost my partner. And so once you stop talking to someone in English, you're on your own, you know. You have to speak Spanish, or you don't speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you might. So it sounds like you went weeks without speaking English, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you were alone up there?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:471", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.610243938674349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, definitely it was, especially after I got into El Carmen because I lost my partner. And so once you stop talking to someone in English, you're on your own, you know. You have to speak Spanish, or you don't speak."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, you might. So it sounds like you went weeks without speaking English, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you were alone up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure. And uh, I don't know. I had a good time. I have to admit that I had a good time. I enjoyed the Colombian people. I enjoyed their teasing me about my Spanish and, um, you know, about the expressions I picked up and I used at the wrong time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they'd find that funny."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:473", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.455826598527054, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you were alone up there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure. And uh, I don't know. I had a good time. I have to admit that I had a good time. I enjoyed the Colombian people. I enjoyed their teasing me about my Spanish and, um, you know, about the expressions I picked up and I used at the wrong time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they'd find that funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because our lives were pretty simple, too, you know, and they didn't have much to entertainment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came and provided that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:475", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.395362887252281, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, sure. And uh, I don't know. I had a good time. I have to admit that I had a good time. I enjoyed the Colombian people. I enjoyed their teasing me about my Spanish and, um, you know, about the expressions I picked up and I used at the wrong time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And they'd find that funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because our lives were pretty simple, too, you know, and they didn't have much to entertainment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came and provided that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were this sort of gets us back around to where we were at the end of the last tape, where you would go into town and have a few beers with the guys and they were trying to get you to drink aguardiente. But then, you were just about to say the other thing that they made, and the tape shut off. It wasn't aguardiente, it was?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:477", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 10.439292096946978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because our lives were pretty simple, too, you know, and they didn't have much to entertainment."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You came and provided that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were this sort of gets us back around to where we were at the end of the last tape, where you would go into town and have a few beers with the guys and they were trying to get you to drink aguardiente. But then, you were just about to say the other thing that they made, and the tape shut off. It wasn't aguardiente, it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, now I'm putting you on the spot. You had said something about rum. I think you were saying that they made it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:479", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.043657885496642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were this sort of gets us back around to where we were at the end of the last tape, where you would go into town and have a few beers with the guys and they were trying to get you to drink aguardiente. But then, you were just about to say the other thing that they made, and the tape shut off. It wasn't aguardiente, it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, now I'm putting you on the spot. You had said something about rum. I think you were saying that they made it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "De Caldas was the famous rum in Colombia, but in Medellin there were a few restaurants. There was a Swiss bakery that was very popular because they really had great pastry, you know, and you certainly didn't get that in the village, at your site, we called it. There was one Chinese restaurant in Medellin that we went to because that really did give you, you know, some vegetables and, you know, as well as all the other stuff, the pasta and all that. But Colombia, I mean. Medellin was such an international town, city, that we got to know Germans and French people and all that, and so there was a mixture of them and they were there for different reasons, not like us. They were there with money backing them so they would have parties. And, you know, we would go to their parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd invite you. Very pleasant."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:481", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.49295320610738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, uh."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, now I'm putting you on the spot. You had said something about rum. I think you were saying that they made it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "De Caldas was the famous rum in Colombia, but in Medellin there were a few restaurants. There was a Swiss bakery that was very popular because they really had great pastry, you know, and you certainly didn't get that in the village, at your site, we called it. There was one Chinese restaurant in Medellin that we went to because that really did give you, you know, some vegetables and, you know, as well as all the other stuff, the pasta and all that. But Colombia, I mean. Medellin was such an international town, city, that we got to know Germans and French people and all that, and so there was a mixture of them and they were there for different reasons, not like us. They were there with money backing them so they would have parties. And, you know, we would go to their parties."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They'd invite you. Very pleasant."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And so and then there were, you know, some other people that were there that were doing, you know, some hands-on work like teachers from England and So I don't know. I liked going to Medellin mainly because of what, you know, mainly because of what you could eat. But I wasn't really wild about exclusively hanging around with the other Americans, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers. I like seeing my buddies from my group. But just to go and hang out with the rest of the Peace Corps volunteers was not my cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More interesting things to do. Did you have, um, people coming out to your village to check up on you or to see if you needed any help? Did Peace Corps staff come to visit you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:485", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.201176797663432, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right, right. And so and then there were, you know, some other people that were there that were doing, you know, some hands-on work like teachers from England and So I don't know. I liked going to Medellin mainly because of what, you know, mainly because of what you could eat. But I wasn't really wild about exclusively hanging around with the other Americans, you know, other Peace Corps volunteers. I like seeing my buddies from my group. But just to go and hang out with the rest of the Peace Corps volunteers was not my cup of tea."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "More interesting things to do. Did you have, um, people coming out to your village to check up on you or to see if you needed any help? Did Peace Corps staff come to visit you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a Peace Corps leader there. We had a Peace Corps leader who was from either the first or second group, the first group or our group. And when the first group made changes or something like that, they switched them around or they left because they were terminating service. Then we had someone from our group. And in fact, my Peace Corps leader was just here in town a week ago, and I hadn't seen him in 50 years, but he was chosen from, you know, the group. A number of my friends were made leaders. So they had a jeep and they traveled from one site to another to see what they needed, what people needed, how things were going. You know, nothing, you know, and nothing great. You know, it was a visit and a connection with the outside world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about doctors? Did you have to go into Bogota or something to get checked out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually we had to. No. Or Medellin, the big cities. There was Barranquilla on the coast and there was Cali on the west coast and there was Bogota and there was Medellin. And so everyone had access to one of those places to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you required to come in for vaccinations and stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:487", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5568631085149245, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There's a Peace Corps leader there. We had a Peace Corps leader who was from either the first or second group, the first group or our group. And when the first group made changes or something like that, they switched them around or they left because they were terminating service. Then we had someone from our group. And in fact, my Peace Corps leader was just here in town a week ago, and I hadn't seen him in 50 years, but he was chosen from, you know, the group. A number of my friends were made leaders. So they had a jeep and they traveled from one site to another to see what they needed, what people needed, how things were going. You know, nothing, you know, and nothing great. You know, it was a visit and a connection with the outside world."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what about doctors? Did you have to go into Bogota or something to get checked out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually we had to. No. Or Medellin, the big cities. There was Barranquilla on the coast and there was Cali on the west coast and there was Bogota and there was Medellin. And so everyone had access to one of those places to go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And were you required to come in for vaccinations and stuff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't think so. We had, I think, we had two conferences where everyone came. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Second tape. And I think we lost a bit of our conversation because we didn't realize that the tape had run out. So but we were talking about medical care and you were saying."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:491", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.28007791174682, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't. I don't think so. We had, I think, we had two conferences where everyone came. [tape break]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Second tape. And I think we lost a bit of our conversation because we didn't realize that the tape had run out. So but we were talking about medical care and you were saying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I had, I do not remember. Except for the fact that I had to go in for this tonsillectomy. The next time I ever saw a doctor, and it was a Colombian doctor, and they recommended him from Bogota, from the Peace Corps office in Bogota. Because I was, I don't know what the symptoms, to tell you the truth, were. But he determined that I had this rheumatic fever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "My goodness."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that, um, he was concerned about it. And so I had to go to him, back to him, a second or third time. But it cleared up. And so it turned out to be nothing. Other than that, I never saw a doctor. You know, I mean, there was a doctor in my village. He lived there and I would talk to him and he was always trying to practice his English on me. But he, I don't think he ever treated me. I might have gone to him for a cold or something like that, and he'd give me a prescription. There was a little pharmacy in my village. But other than that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were pretty healthy? The occasional cold or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:497", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.499421003767928, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. The climate didn't seem to affect me that much, even though it was damp."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dysentery didn't?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have had dysentery one time. the whole time I was in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know, I made sure that I drink purified water and boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Careful. You were careful. I think what we missed, I think this tape recorder ran out of tape on that side and we weren't aware of it, but you were saying some very, I thought, important things about what are the limits on what a Peace Corps volunteer can realistically expect to accomplish."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:499", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.9993566708532535, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I might have had dysentery one time. the whole time I was in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know, I made sure that I drink purified water and boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Careful. You were careful. I think what we missed, I think this tape recorder ran out of tape on that side and we weren't aware of it, but you were saying some very, I thought, important things about what are the limits on what a Peace Corps volunteer can realistically expect to accomplish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, something being more important than the project itself."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:501", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.554840745392504, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But you know, I made sure that I drink purified water and boiled water."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Careful. You were careful. I think what we missed, I think this tape recorder ran out of tape on that side and we weren't aware of it, but you were saying some very, I thought, important things about what are the limits on what a Peace Corps volunteer can realistically expect to accomplish."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, something being more important than the project itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. It was the little, um, minuscular something that you might have contributed without even knowing it. But because we're Americans in a, you know, an advanced society, supposedly at that time even, even more so maybe. But the little contribution you might make by saying, you know, you might boil your water, you know, instead of drinking right from the. You know, you might find out you're not having so many colds or what have you, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your children might not be having dysentery."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:503", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.060934161547226, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, something being more important than the project itself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. It was the little, um, minuscular something that you might have contributed without even knowing it. But because we're Americans in a, you know, an advanced society, supposedly at that time even, even more so maybe. But the little contribution you might make by saying, you know, you might boil your water, you know, instead of drinking right from the. You know, you might find out you're not having so many colds or what have you, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your children might not be having dysentery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And I think that that was as much. The fact that we were living in a village where U.S. citizens had never lived before. Might once in a while come in with other, you know, somehow get to a village like mine. Very questionable, except for the fact that they did have these ceramic factories here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, people would come in to."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:505", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.623260179496918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. It was the little, um, minuscular something that you might have contributed without even knowing it. But because we're Americans in a, you know, an advanced society, supposedly at that time even, even more so maybe. But the little contribution you might make by saying, you know, you might boil your water, you know, instead of drinking right from the. You know, you might find out you're not having so many colds or what have you, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So your children might not be having dysentery."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And I think that that was as much. The fact that we were living in a village where U.S. citizens had never lived before. Might once in a while come in with other, you know, somehow get to a village like mine. Very questionable, except for the fact that they did have these ceramic factories here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, people would come in to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See what the ceramic factory looked like, you know, and all that. I don't think that, you know, and they were small, they were not big operations. But we. The Peace Corps generally, I think that even today, after spending some time in El Salvador, I could see that the presence of the Peace Corps is as much an uplift as anything else in a country. That someone, some foreigner, came down here to live with us and, you know, actually lived in our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did a few things a little bit differently."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:507", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.248066866107687, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. And I think that that was as much. The fact that we were living in a village where U.S. citizens had never lived before. Might once in a while come in with other, you know, somehow get to a village like mine. Very questionable, except for the fact that they did have these ceramic factories here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, people would come in to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "See what the ceramic factory looked like, you know, and all that. I don't think that, you know, and they were small, they were not big operations. But we. The Peace Corps generally, I think that even today, after spending some time in El Salvador, I could see that the presence of the Peace Corps is as much an uplift as anything else in a country. That someone, some foreigner, came down here to live with us and, you know, actually lived in our village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did a few things a little bit differently."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to? Surely you wanted to tell your family in Florida about some of the things you were doing, right? How did you let them know how you were and what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:511", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.25687267420702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Yeah, exactly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you manage to? Surely you wanted to tell your family in Florida about some of the things you were doing, right? How did you let them know how you were and what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know. The frustration is always so easy to communicate to folks back home, you know, and that possibly was a contributing factor of what, you know, what our life was like there. But you know, my family was pretty good, especially my mother. My mother used to write me all the time, you know, but she was that type of person. She had a wonderful penmanship and she was, you know, born and raised in Iowa. And she was only an eighth grade education, but she got a job with a bank because of her penmanship. Her penmanship, they were taught the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Palmer method?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Palmer method. And she had this beautiful penmanship. And you know, in those days, the typewriters were just coming on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And ledgers were kept by hand."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:513", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.729858526896689, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know. The frustration is always so easy to communicate to folks back home, you know, and that possibly was a contributing factor of what, you know, what our life was like there. But you know, my family was pretty good, especially my mother. My mother used to write me all the time, you know, but she was that type of person. She had a wonderful penmanship and she was, you know, born and raised in Iowa. And she was only an eighth grade education, but she got a job with a bank because of her penmanship. Her penmanship, they were taught the."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Palmer method?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Palmer method. And she had this beautiful penmanship. And you know, in those days, the typewriters were just coming on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And ledgers were kept by hand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Everything was kept by hand. So my mother wrote, you know, great letters and kept up to date, and I used to write back more about what I envision might be going on at 1190 Beers Drive in Miami Beach, Florida, because there were still brothers and sisters living there. And if they weren't living in that house, they were living nearby. And and so it was always, I sort of kidded them about, you know, how life was progressing without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would it take for a letter to get from El Carmen to Miami Beach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:515", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.033176140996321, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Palmer method. And she had this beautiful penmanship. And you know, in those days, the typewriters were just coming on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And ledgers were kept by hand."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Everything was kept by hand. So my mother wrote, you know, great letters and kept up to date, and I used to write back more about what I envision might be going on at 1190 Beers Drive in Miami Beach, Florida, because there were still brothers and sisters living there. And if they weren't living in that house, they were living nearby. And and so it was always, I sort of kidded them about, you know, how life was progressing without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would it take for a letter to get from El Carmen to Miami Beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably faster than the letter to get from Miami Beach to El Carmen. Mainly because they did have a good postal service, and it was inexpensive. It was fairly inexpensive. And I think that my letters arrived quicker than theirs to me. I know one thing, that my wife, my wife now, who I was dating a little bit in college, sent me a Christmas package of brownies. And I got it like in May, you know. So it was really. Still ate them.\n\nOh!\n\nBut it was. It was. That was sort of the biggest discrepancy, perhaps in the communication. I never, I tried calling home once in a while, or once or twice or three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Bogota maybe? Or Medellin?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:517", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.370195712218134, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Everything was kept by hand. So my mother wrote, you know, great letters and kept up to date, and I used to write back more about what I envision might be going on at 1190 Beers Drive in Miami Beach, Florida, because there were still brothers and sisters living there. And if they weren't living in that house, they were living nearby. And and so it was always, I sort of kidded them about, you know, how life was progressing without me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long would it take for a letter to get from El Carmen to Miami Beach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably faster than the letter to get from Miami Beach to El Carmen. Mainly because they did have a good postal service, and it was inexpensive. It was fairly inexpensive. And I think that my letters arrived quicker than theirs to me. I know one thing, that my wife, my wife now, who I was dating a little bit in college, sent me a Christmas package of brownies. And I got it like in May, you know. So it was really. Still ate them.\n\nOh!\n\nBut it was. It was. That was sort of the biggest discrepancy, perhaps in the communication. I never, I tried calling home once in a while, or once or twice or three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Bogota maybe? Or Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, from Medellin. But the connections were really not very good. So I just gave up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a contrast between communication then and communication today with today's Peace Corps volunteers, where they tweet and email. Instant communication."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:519", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7446619024645935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably faster than the letter to get from Miami Beach to El Carmen. Mainly because they did have a good postal service, and it was inexpensive. It was fairly inexpensive. And I think that my letters arrived quicker than theirs to me. I know one thing, that my wife, my wife now, who I was dating a little bit in college, sent me a Christmas package of brownies. And I got it like in May, you know. So it was really. Still ate them.\n\nOh!\n\nBut it was. It was. That was sort of the biggest discrepancy, perhaps in the communication. I never, I tried calling home once in a while, or once or twice or three times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From Bogota maybe? Or Medellin?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, from Medellin. But the connections were really not very good. So I just gave up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a contrast between communication then and communication today with today's Peace Corps volunteers, where they tweet and email. Instant communication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And you know, communications between them, you know. When I got into El Salvador, I was amazed at how many kids had cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And the volunteers could talk to each other."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:521", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.160735447182882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, from Medellin. But the connections were really not very good. So I just gave up on that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, what a contrast between communication then and communication today with today's Peace Corps volunteers, where they tweet and email. Instant communication."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And you know, communications between them, you know. When I got into El Salvador, I was amazed at how many kids had cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And the volunteers could talk to each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think everybody has a cell phone. I think they issued cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think you're right."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:523", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.623039385758757, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Right. And you know, communications between them, you know. When I got into El Salvador, I was amazed at how many kids had cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And the volunteers could talk to each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think everybody has a cell phone. I think they issued cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think you're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they issued me a cell phone. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, they issued me a cell phone too. It was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we, on the other hand, back in the sixties, were totally isolated from other volunteers as well as from Washington."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:525", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.136710428620841, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think everybody has a cell phone. I think they issued cell phones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think you're right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they issued me a cell phone. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, they issued me a cell phone too. It was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we, on the other hand, back in the sixties, were totally isolated from other volunteers as well as from Washington."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Because we had a central. In my village, there was a central office for the telephone, attached to the church as I remember. I mean, I guess they rented a space from the church. It was a small cubbyhole. And you could get messages. You could get phone calls from, and someone would run to your house and get you, and you'd come down to answer the phone. But, uh, it was so prehistoric that, you know, I seldom used it. Maybe a couple of times I got a phone call. Either from Medellin, or I think one time there was an effort to get to me from Miami. But uh, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't work."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:527", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.707456031800934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they issued me a cell phone. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, they issued me a cell phone too. It was very interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we, on the other hand, back in the sixties, were totally isolated from other volunteers as well as from Washington."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Because we had a central. In my village, there was a central office for the telephone, attached to the church as I remember. I mean, I guess they rented a space from the church. It was a small cubbyhole. And you could get messages. You could get phone calls from, and someone would run to your house and get you, and you'd come down to answer the phone. But, uh, it was so prehistoric that, you know, I seldom used it. Maybe a couple of times I got a phone call. Either from Medellin, or I think one time there was an effort to get to me from Miami. But uh, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So communication. It wasn't so bad either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, our expectations were different. I want to go back with you into your village and you're organizing farmers who are growing tomatoes and you're trying to get a cooperative thing together, which would be for everybody's benefit. Who owned the land? Were these people owning their own? Do they have ownership of the land, which they were using to grow tomatoes? Or were they renting from a wealthy person?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:529", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.341617813112149, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Because we had a central. In my village, there was a central office for the telephone, attached to the church as I remember. I mean, I guess they rented a space from the church. It was a small cubbyhole. And you could get messages. You could get phone calls from, and someone would run to your house and get you, and you'd come down to answer the phone. But, uh, it was so prehistoric that, you know, I seldom used it. Maybe a couple of times I got a phone call. Either from Medellin, or I think one time there was an effort to get to me from Miami. But uh, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It didn't work."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So communication. It wasn't so bad either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, our expectations were different. I want to go back with you into your village and you're organizing farmers who are growing tomatoes and you're trying to get a cooperative thing together, which would be for everybody's benefit. Who owned the land? Were these people owning their own? Do they have ownership of the land, which they were using to grow tomatoes? Or were they renting from a wealthy person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. There was a mix. There was a mix. And there were a lot of people who lived on property that was rented and the rents were very minimal, you know. But the owners might have been one of the owners of the ceramic place, ceramic mill. And he was not into, you know, running blindly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He owned it, but he didn't want to work it."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:531", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.935130903457942, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So communication. It wasn't so bad either."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, our expectations were different. I want to go back with you into your village and you're organizing farmers who are growing tomatoes and you're trying to get a cooperative thing together, which would be for everybody's benefit. Who owned the land? Were these people owning their own? Do they have ownership of the land, which they were using to grow tomatoes? Or were they renting from a wealthy person?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it was. There was a mix. There was a mix. And there were a lot of people who lived on property that was rented and the rents were very minimal, you know. But the owners might have been one of the owners of the ceramic place, ceramic mill. And he was not into, you know, running blindly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He owned it, but he didn't want to work it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he'd rent it to someone, you know, and they could stay as long as they want to as long as there wasn't any big development. The interesting part about is my wife and I went to Colombia in 1995 for a return visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first visit back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:535", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.85818630056536, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So he'd rent it to someone, you know, and they could stay as long as they want to as long as there wasn't any big development. The interesting part about is my wife and I went to Colombia in 1995 for a return visit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that your first visit back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "First visit back. And you know, they were. It was completely different. They had built an airport that was 15 minutes away from my village. Whereas it took me two and a half hours to get to Medellin, where the only airport was, you know? So not only was that a big change, but the village I was from went from, you know, 10,000 people to like 50,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And although I have to tell you, they had a public library and they had a public library ever since I left, in that village. But the government had come in to subsidize it. So now, not only municipal government, but the state government. And so and I went into that library and there were kids on computers in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. March along."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:537", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.397984778405956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "First visit back. And you know, they were. It was completely different. They had built an airport that was 15 minutes away from my village. Whereas it took me two and a half hours to get to Medellin, where the only airport was, you know? So not only was that a big change, but the village I was from went from, you know, 10,000 people to like 50,000."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "City."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And although I have to tell you, they had a public library and they had a public library ever since I left, in that village. But the government had come in to subsidize it. So now, not only municipal government, but the state government. And so and I went into that library and there were kids on computers in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. March along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the idea of the library, and the ownership of the library by the community."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:539", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.997760864895506, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. And although I have to tell you, they had a public library and they had a public library ever since I left, in that village. But the government had come in to subsidize it. So now, not only municipal government, but the state government. And so and I went into that library and there were kids on computers in the library."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my goodness. March along."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the idea of the library, and the ownership of the library by the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows what it's like now. They said they're closing libraries now and having I mean, I saw a piece in the news on one of the programs, that one place closed the library and everything is audio, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And digital. So those of us who enjoy turning the paper pages of a book are not so sure that's a good thing. Um. So you are on your own pretty much. You didn't have people from Peace Corps or from the government telling you what to do. Was there any influence from United States agricultural corporations? I'm thinking Monsanto, for example. I don't mean Monsanto, but like as an example of a corporation that was trying to push their fertilizer or pesticides. Were you encouraged to promote the use of?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:541", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.441956516550563, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that was really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But the idea of the library, and the ownership of the library by the community."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows what it's like now. They said they're closing libraries now and having I mean, I saw a piece in the news on one of the programs, that one place closed the library and everything is audio, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And digital. So those of us who enjoy turning the paper pages of a book are not so sure that's a good thing. Um. So you are on your own pretty much. You didn't have people from Peace Corps or from the government telling you what to do. Was there any influence from United States agricultural corporations? I'm thinking Monsanto, for example. I don't mean Monsanto, but like as an example of a corporation that was trying to push their fertilizer or pesticides. Were you encouraged to promote the use of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. I never came across. An interesting part of my two years in Colombia was that when I was in college, I worked as a switchboard operator at WDSU, television and radio. Basically television. Radio was across the street, but I worked part time as a switchboard operator. And when they got wind that I was going to Colombia, one of the newscasters there set up an idea that he would come down to Colombia and do a story about that. Unfortunately, something happened. I don't know whether it was the assassination of President Kennedy, but that was pretty close to the end of my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right, that would have happened while you were in Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:543", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.935507240611736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Who knows what it's like now. They said they're closing libraries now and having I mean, I saw a piece in the news on one of the programs, that one place closed the library and everything is audio, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And digital. So those of us who enjoy turning the paper pages of a book are not so sure that's a good thing. Um. So you are on your own pretty much. You didn't have people from Peace Corps or from the government telling you what to do. Was there any influence from United States agricultural corporations? I'm thinking Monsanto, for example. I don't mean Monsanto, but like as an example of a corporation that was trying to push their fertilizer or pesticides. Were you encouraged to promote the use of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. I never came across. An interesting part of my two years in Colombia was that when I was in college, I worked as a switchboard operator at WDSU, television and radio. Basically television. Radio was across the street, but I worked part time as a switchboard operator. And when they got wind that I was going to Colombia, one of the newscasters there set up an idea that he would come down to Colombia and do a story about that. Unfortunately, something happened. I don't know whether it was the assassination of President Kennedy, but that was pretty close to the end of my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right, that would have happened while you were in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear. Well, let's get back to talk about that in a minute."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:545", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.48389693401304, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, no. I never came across. An interesting part of my two years in Colombia was that when I was in college, I worked as a switchboard operator at WDSU, television and radio. Basically television. Radio was across the street, but I worked part time as a switchboard operator. And when they got wind that I was going to Colombia, one of the newscasters there set up an idea that he would come down to Colombia and do a story about that. Unfortunately, something happened. I don't know whether it was the assassination of President Kennedy, but that was pretty close to the end of my service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's right, that would have happened while you were in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear. Well, let's get back to talk about that in a minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but anyway, but he never made it, but that was the only other thing. The other thing was I worked also part time in college for a coffee importer and sugar refiner. And Colombia, of course, is big coffee producer. And they were writing me letters asking me, you know, are you working near coffee producing country? And we want to talk to you about, you know, your future with our company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't mentioned anything about coffee growing. Tomato growing, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:547", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.093218815570045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh dear. Well, let's get back to talk about that in a minute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but anyway, but he never made it, but that was the only other thing. The other thing was I worked also part time in college for a coffee importer and sugar refiner. And Colombia, of course, is big coffee producer. And they were writing me letters asking me, you know, are you working near coffee producing country? And we want to talk to you about, you know, your future with our company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't mentioned anything about coffee growing. Tomato growing, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. But coffee growing. I wasn't familiar with it because in my area, it was not. It was not being grown. But just down the road, the coffee, the coffee farms, I mean, coffee plantations, were prolific. The tomato program was doing well for a while, and all of a sudden the participants sort of lost interest. And that was a disappointment because I thought that would be, you know, good because they do use a lot of tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you ever find out what was behind that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:549", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.659132017300049, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but anyway, but he never made it, but that was the only other thing. The other thing was I worked also part time in college for a coffee importer and sugar refiner. And Colombia, of course, is big coffee producer. And they were writing me letters asking me, you know, are you working near coffee producing country? And we want to talk to you about, you know, your future with our company."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You haven't mentioned anything about coffee growing. Tomato growing, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. But coffee growing. I wasn't familiar with it because in my area, it was not. It was not being grown. But just down the road, the coffee, the coffee farms, I mean, coffee plantations, were prolific. The tomato program was doing well for a while, and all of a sudden the participants sort of lost interest. And that was a disappointment because I thought that would be, you know, good because they do use a lot of tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you ever find out what was behind that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a lack of cohesion among the farmers, you know, and deciding that they would do it on their own. So it was, that was sort of disappointment, but, you know. Since I was alone, and finally they gave up on sending me a Peace Corps volunteer every few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you weren't replaced, you said, when you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:551", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.287924463666721, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. But coffee growing. I wasn't familiar with it because in my area, it was not. It was not being grown. But just down the road, the coffee, the coffee farms, I mean, coffee plantations, were prolific. The tomato program was doing well for a while, and all of a sudden the participants sort of lost interest. And that was a disappointment because I thought that would be, you know, good because they do use a lot of tomatoes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Did you ever find out what was behind that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a lack of cohesion among the farmers, you know, and deciding that they would do it on their own. So it was, that was sort of disappointment, but, you know. Since I was alone, and finally they gave up on sending me a Peace Corps volunteer every few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you weren't replaced, you said, when you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't. Yeah. So once I got, you know, that was over with, I was able to, you know, devote more time to the library and to these schools that we were building. Two schools that we were building, one in the village, not too far from where I live. But then another one up into another farming area. And the priest was very involved with that one too, for some reason. He wanted to see a school for these children out there in the rural areas. So he used to come out with me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the actual construction of the building?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:553", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.986582737407468, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was just a lack of cohesion among the farmers, you know, and deciding that they would do it on their own. So it was, that was sort of disappointment, but, you know. Since I was alone, and finally they gave up on sending me a Peace Corps volunteer every few months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you weren't replaced, you said, when you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't. Yeah. So once I got, you know, that was over with, I was able to, you know, devote more time to the library and to these schools that we were building. Two schools that we were building, one in the village, not too far from where I live. But then another one up into another farming area. And the priest was very involved with that one too, for some reason. He wanted to see a school for these children out there in the rural areas. So he used to come out with me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the actual construction of the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it was made with CINVA blocks, which is a combination of dirt and a little cement. And CARE was our and they provided the machines, which are handmade, hand operated. So, you know, like a press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, to make the block."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:555", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.76286970823052, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I wasn't. Yeah. So once I got, you know, that was over with, I was able to, you know, devote more time to the library and to these schools that we were building. Two schools that we were building, one in the village, not too far from where I live. But then another one up into another farming area. And the priest was very involved with that one too, for some reason. He wanted to see a school for these children out there in the rural areas. So he used to come out with me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in the actual construction of the building?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it was made with CINVA blocks, which is a combination of dirt and a little cement. And CARE was our and they provided the machines, which are handmade, hand operated. So, you know, like a press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, to make the block."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To make blocks and that's what we, that's what we built the school out of. I had a little bit of a problem with the local priest because he. All the rural schools had a living area, a bedroom, for the teacher. And he didn't want to do a bedroom for the teacher. But there was some word in the village that this teacher was, you know, a paramour of the priest, you know, which is not unusual, especially in Spanish countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he didn't want to set her up with a room?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:557", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.6254107869228, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, but it was made with CINVA blocks, which is a combination of dirt and a little cement. And CARE was our and they provided the machines, which are handmade, hand operated. So, you know, like a press."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah, to make the block."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To make blocks and that's what we, that's what we built the school out of. I had a little bit of a problem with the local priest because he. All the rural schools had a living area, a bedroom, for the teacher. And he didn't want to do a bedroom for the teacher. But there was some word in the village that this teacher was, you know, a paramour of the priest, you know, which is not unusual, especially in Spanish countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he didn't want to set her up with a room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With a room, yeah. So she had to come in from her, she had to come from her parents' home to the school. So there was something going on, because he wasn't looking to the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And they need get somebody else coming in from farther away."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:559", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.472678652136445, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To make blocks and that's what we, that's what we built the school out of. I had a little bit of a problem with the local priest because he. All the rural schools had a living area, a bedroom, for the teacher. And he didn't want to do a bedroom for the teacher. But there was some word in the village that this teacher was, you know, a paramour of the priest, you know, which is not unusual, especially in Spanish countries."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But he didn't want to set her up with a room?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "With a room, yeah. So she had to come in from her, she had to come from her parents' home to the school. So there was something going on, because he wasn't looking to the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And they need get somebody else coming in from farther away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the other big effort we made was in a village, a rural, very rural, over a mountain. The farmers there wanted to carve a road so that they could get their product to the market on Saturday and Sunday easier, because otherwise it took, you know, a very long time to make this over the mountain and into the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On just a horse path or something."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:561", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.302976280151606, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "With a room, yeah. So she had to come in from her, she had to come from her parents' home to the school. So there was something going on, because he wasn't looking to the future."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. And they need get somebody else coming in from farther away."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the other big effort we made was in a village, a rural, very rural, over a mountain. The farmers there wanted to carve a road so that they could get their product to the market on Saturday and Sunday easier, because otherwise it took, you know, a very long time to make this over the mountain and into the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On just a horse path or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. So we were building a road, a dirt road, with oxen pulling the grader behind it. And the difficult part was to get out there and then come back in the same day, because it was a long trip. And if you're going to get anything done, then you had to, you know, you had to do it fast and you had very short time. And the first time I went up there, I had a partner and he went with me and we got out there on our horses. And the rest of the group, the priests went with us and, you know, other these officials from the health department and all that went with them. But they left right, shortly after the priests had a little blessing and all that. And then they left and we stayed and helped continue to build the, you know, to get these oxen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, get the work done."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:563", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.22552920016845, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. So the other big effort we made was in a village, a rural, very rural, over a mountain. The farmers there wanted to carve a road so that they could get their product to the market on Saturday and Sunday easier, because otherwise it took, you know, a very long time to make this over the mountain and into the village."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On just a horse path or something."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. So we were building a road, a dirt road, with oxen pulling the grader behind it. And the difficult part was to get out there and then come back in the same day, because it was a long trip. And if you're going to get anything done, then you had to, you know, you had to do it fast and you had very short time. And the first time I went up there, I had a partner and he went with me and we got out there on our horses. And the rest of the group, the priests went with us and, you know, other these officials from the health department and all that went with them. But they left right, shortly after the priests had a little blessing and all that. And then they left and we stayed and helped continue to build the, you know, to get these oxen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, get the work done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it got time, you know, to get out of there or it's going to be dark. So we got our horses and we started to go back and we got completely lost. We had to go back to where we started from and we had to sleep and we had to displace part of the family so that we could sleep in one of the beds. Because they didn't want us to, at that point, try to make it back in before it was dark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it would be hazardous. It would be another cross on the side of the road."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:565", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.250588000187166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. So we were building a road, a dirt road, with oxen pulling the grader behind it. And the difficult part was to get out there and then come back in the same day, because it was a long trip. And if you're going to get anything done, then you had to, you know, you had to do it fast and you had very short time. And the first time I went up there, I had a partner and he went with me and we got out there on our horses. And the rest of the group, the priests went with us and, you know, other these officials from the health department and all that went with them. But they left right, shortly after the priests had a little blessing and all that. And then they left and we stayed and helped continue to build the, you know, to get these oxen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, get the work done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it got time, you know, to get out of there or it's going to be dark. So we got our horses and we started to go back and we got completely lost. We had to go back to where we started from and we had to sleep and we had to displace part of the family so that we could sleep in one of the beds. Because they didn't want us to, at that point, try to make it back in before it was dark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it would be hazardous. It would be another cross on the side of the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, that partner of mine, he was from my group and we were great friends. But he asked for a transfer to another, so that was really the end of it, when he left. So, uh, I didn't have any other. One guy they sent out there and he went back into the village and he borrowed someone's motor scooter or something, and he had a wreck and he ended up in the hospital and they had to, they sent him back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you were."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:567", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.389542222430185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it got time, you know, to get out of there or it's going to be dark. So we got our horses and we started to go back and we got completely lost. We had to go back to where we started from and we had to sleep and we had to displace part of the family so that we could sleep in one of the beds. Because they didn't want us to, at that point, try to make it back in before it was dark."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because it would be hazardous. It would be another cross on the side of the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, that partner of mine, he was from my group and we were great friends. But he asked for a transfer to another, so that was really the end of it, when he left. So, uh, I didn't have any other. One guy they sent out there and he went back into the village and he borrowed someone's motor scooter or something, and he had a wreck and he ended up in the hospital and they had to, they sent him back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed the whole two years?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:569", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 12.655046913811317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And after that, that partner of mine, he was from my group and we were great friends. But he asked for a transfer to another, so that was really the end of it, when he left. So, uh, I didn't have any other. One guy they sent out there and he went back into the village and he borrowed someone's motor scooter or something, and he had a wreck and he ended up in the hospital and they had to, they sent him back to the United States."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So there you were."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have the option of extending beyond that?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:571", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.727829904234797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you stayed the whole two years?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have the option of extending beyond that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, they did. If you were, they did say, if you were in the middle of a project that you felt that, you know, your presence was important, you could extend. But I didn't feel like that was necessary at the end of the year. Some of my friends did stay for another half year or a year and uh, I wouldn't have minded it at all. But I just didn't have the, you know, I didn't want them to be misled that I was going to, you know, spend another six months or a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think there was somebody named Linda back here writing to you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:573", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 11.91981100470533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have the option of extending beyond that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, they did. If you were, they did say, if you were in the middle of a project that you felt that, you know, your presence was important, you could extend. But I didn't feel like that was necessary at the end of the year. Some of my friends did stay for another half year or a year and uh, I wouldn't have minded it at all. But I just didn't have the, you know, I didn't want them to be misled that I was going to, you know, spend another six months or a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think there was somebody named Linda back here writing to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel on your way home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:575", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.688678894117033, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, they did. If you were, they did say, if you were in the middle of a project that you felt that, you know, your presence was important, you could extend. But I didn't feel like that was necessary at the end of the year. Some of my friends did stay for another half year or a year and uh, I wouldn't have minded it at all. But I just didn't have the, you know, I didn't want them to be misled that I was going to, you know, spend another six months or a year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I think there was somebody named Linda back here writing to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel on your way home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Four of us went from Bogota, Colombia. Flew from Bogota to Panama City, the city of Panama, the capital of Panama. And we bought. We heard that you could get an inexpensive car. You could buy a car inexpensively. And so one of the guys, he was interested because he wanted to buy the car when we got back to the States from the rest of us. So we all chipped in for the car and we got. But he wanted a Volkswagen. So there were two of us who were tall, like me. I was 6'3\". And two of them were short, and it was misery. I left them in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Volkswagen Bug?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:577", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.209643215685593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel on your way home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Four of us went from Bogota, Colombia. Flew from Bogota to Panama City, the city of Panama, the capital of Panama. And we bought. We heard that you could get an inexpensive car. You could buy a car inexpensively. And so one of the guys, he was interested because he wanted to buy the car when we got back to the States from the rest of us. So we all chipped in for the car and we got. But he wanted a Volkswagen. So there were two of us who were tall, like me. I was 6'3\". And two of them were short, and it was misery. I left them in Guatemala."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A Volkswagen Bug?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I went to the Yucatan Peninsula from there, then flew back to New Orleans. But they went on and he bought the car from us and sent us money. But that was, uh, and the problem was that he was also interested in hurrying getting back to the United States. He was from Charlotte, North Carolina. And he was homesick, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's too bad because there's a lot to be seen in between Panama City and."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:581", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.197090389735299, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And I went to the Yucatan Peninsula from there, then flew back to New Orleans. But they went on and he bought the car from us and sent us money. But that was, uh, and the problem was that he was also interested in hurrying getting back to the United States. He was from Charlotte, North Carolina. And he was homesick, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's too bad because there's a lot to be seen in between Panama City and."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Central America, yeah. My wife and I had an opportunity, after my Peace Corps service in El Salvador, my wife came down and we backpacked from Panama up through Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You backpacked? But you were in your 60s?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:583", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.774544877483666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Central America, yeah. My wife and I had an opportunity, after my Peace Corps service in El Salvador, my wife came down and we backpacked from Panama up through Central America."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You backpacked? But you were in your 60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We opted for collectivos and the chivas, the United States school busses that they turn into transportation vehicles for the rural people in all of Latin America. So that was a great experience too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to say that's important about what you did or what you were thinking about while you were there in Colombia?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:585", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.4161609749818505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And we had a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You backpacked? But you were in your 60s?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We opted for collectivos and the chivas, the United States school busses that they turn into transportation vehicles for the rural people in all of Latin America. So that was a great experience too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to say that's important about what you did or what you were thinking about while you were there in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I don't know, there are a lot of, you know, when we were in Columbia, there were a lot of us who thought perhaps we needed more backup from the Peace Corps office or, you know, or CARE. But CARE was a little bit more responsive than actually the Peace Corps office was. Peace Corps just wanted to make sure that no one got seriously, seriously ill or in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't see themselves as supporting you in your work?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:587", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.129067749979834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We opted for collectivos and the chivas, the United States school busses that they turn into transportation vehicles for the rural people in all of Latin America. So that was a great experience too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else you'd like to say that's important about what you did or what you were thinking about while you were there in Colombia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well. I don't know, there are a lot of, you know, when we were in Columbia, there were a lot of us who thought perhaps we needed more backup from the Peace Corps office or, you know, or CARE. But CARE was a little bit more responsive than actually the Peace Corps office was. Peace Corps just wanted to make sure that no one got seriously, seriously ill or in trouble."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they didn't see themselves as supporting you in your work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, right. I didn't get the feeling of that. I felt that, uh. And it was just the opposite when I went to El Salvador. I thought that the support from the Peace Corps office was much greater than we ever had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Isn't that interesting?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:591", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 6.33218240738251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right, right. I didn't get the feeling of that. I felt that, uh. And it was just the opposite when I went to El Salvador. I thought that the support from the Peace Corps office was much greater than we ever had."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Huh. Isn't that interesting?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. So they learned something over the years. I mean, this was the first year of the Peace Corps, what we were in. But other than that, the experience was probably the most important and mind changing experience I had in my life, you know, because the rest of my life was in the United States and working and working, you know, in a job and dealing with, you know, the everyday things of raising a family and all that. Whereas Peace Corps experience was living in a different culture and feeling like you were accomplishing something, but also having a lot of fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no one was telling you, you can't have the fun, you know, you have to put your nose to the wheel or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they also wanted you to socialize with the locals, and you sure did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:595", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.471830132571, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And no one was telling you, you can't have the fun, you know, you have to put your nose to the wheel or whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But they also wanted you to socialize with the locals, and you sure did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. Yeah. And I loved it. I thought it was two of the best years of my life. You know, I still say that. And I think almost everyone I've ever come across says the same thing. Peace Corps was, you know, life changing for them and very much worthwhile. And I'm very active in the local Peace Corps returned volunteers here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this city. And every year we got a new bunch of people coming back. And they're all, you know, they're all very enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you active in Colombia support network?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:597", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.8575890361900003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right. Exactly. Yeah. And I loved it. I thought it was two of the best years of my life. You know, I still say that. And I think almost everyone I've ever come across says the same thing. Peace Corps was, you know, life changing for them and very much worthwhile. And I'm very active in the local Peace Corps returned volunteers here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great, great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this city. And every year we got a new bunch of people coming back. And they're all, you know, they're all very enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you active in Colombia support network?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am. Yeah, I am involved in that too. And I served on the board of the National Peace Corps Association some years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good for you."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:599", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1750989291000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In this city. And every year we got a new bunch of people coming back. And they're all, you know, they're all very enthusiastic."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you active in Colombia support network?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am. Yeah, I am involved in that too. And I served on the board of the National Peace Corps Association some years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they are having a big recognition weekend and dinner, you know, for everyone. I don't know whether I'm going to go, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope you can."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:601", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.5278876990000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I am. Yeah, I am involved in that too. And I served on the board of the National Peace Corps Association some years ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they are having a big recognition weekend and dinner, you know, for everyone. I don't know whether I'm going to go, but."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hope you can."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it would be nice. I have a lot of friends out there now that I did not know from my Peace Corps experience, but from being involved with the National Peace Corps Association."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a woman in Florida right now whose name, of course, because names are disappearing from my brain, who is very, very active in a Colombia project."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:605", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.0097379, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, it would be nice. I have a lot of friends out there now that I did not know from my Peace Corps experience, but from being involved with the National Peace Corps Association."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "There's a woman in Florida right now whose name, of course, because names are disappearing from my brain, who is very, very active in a Colombia project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Is that Helen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dudley."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dudley, yes, she has a great friend of mine. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. I'm glad you know each other."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:607", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.121931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. Is that Helen?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Dudley."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dudley, yes, she has a great friend of mine. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. I'm glad you know each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we know. We know each other. And she, my son is a chef in Miami. And the first dinner they had for fundraiser for the Colombia project, they had at my son's restaurant in Bal Harbour. And they gave, you know, a good price so that they can raise money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific. I'm glad you connected with that."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:609", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.24659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Dudley, yes, she has a great friend of mine. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. I'm glad you know each other."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we know. We know each other. And she, my son is a chef in Miami. And the first dinner they had for fundraiser for the Colombia project, they had at my son's restaurant in Bal Harbour. And they gave, you know, a good price so that they can raise money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific. I'm glad you connected with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm still, I'm still very much involved. She's a great person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't she? Absolutely remarkable. And then in Madison, Wisconsin, there's Jack Long and his wife Cecilia, who are very, very immersed in all things Colombia. Jack was in the Peace Corps in Panama. But having married a Colombian woman is very interested peace activities in Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:611", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.3851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we know. We know each other. And she, my son is a chef in Miami. And the first dinner they had for fundraiser for the Colombia project, they had at my son's restaurant in Bal Harbour. And they gave, you know, a good price so that they can raise money."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Terrific. I'm glad you connected with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm still, I'm still very much involved. She's a great person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't she? Absolutely remarkable. And then in Madison, Wisconsin, there's Jack Long and his wife Cecilia, who are very, very immersed in all things Colombia. Jack was in the Peace Corps in Panama. But having married a Colombian woman is very interested peace activities in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Are they involved with the Colombia project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a different project, it's called the Colombia, oh. Colombian network friend? I can't remember, I'm sorry. I can't remember. It's not Helen's project."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:613", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. And I'm still, I'm still very much involved. She's a great person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Isn't she? Absolutely remarkable. And then in Madison, Wisconsin, there's Jack Long and his wife Cecilia, who are very, very immersed in all things Colombia. Jack was in the Peace Corps in Panama. But having married a Colombian woman is very interested peace activities in Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Are they involved with the Colombia project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a different project, it's called the Colombia, oh. Colombian network friend? I can't remember, I'm sorry. I can't remember. It's not Helen's project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's a different one. It's a different one. And they advocate for, you know, like the Indian population in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and there's a peace community of some of, say, apartado, I think is what it is."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:615", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.71, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right. Are they involved with the Colombia project?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a different project, it's called the Colombia, oh. Colombian network friend? I can't remember, I'm sorry. I can't remember. It's not Helen's project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's a different one. It's a different one. And they advocate for, you know, like the Indian population in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and there's a peace community of some of, say, apartado, I think is what it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's probably the one I participate in. I participate in them. I never go to any of their things because, you know, it's a long way. Although I've never really, I've been in Wisconsin. Love Wisconsin. Are you from Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in Wisconsin now, yeah."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:617", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no. It's a different one. It's a different one. And they advocate for, you know, like the Indian population in Colombia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, and there's a peace community of some of, say, apartado, I think is what it is."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's probably the one I participate in. I participate in them. I never go to any of their things because, you know, it's a long way. Although I've never really, I've been in Wisconsin. Love Wisconsin. Are you from Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in Wisconsin now, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I recruited for the Peace Corps when I got finished with my tour in Colombia, and they sent me to Wisconsin to start out in, um, what's the name of the city at the very top that's part of Minnesota, I think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Superior, Wisconsin. Duluth, Minnesota."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:619", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, that's probably the one I participate in. I participate in them. I never go to any of their things because, you know, it's a long way. Although I've never really, I've been in Wisconsin. Love Wisconsin. Are you from Wisconsin?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I live in Wisconsin now, yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I recruited for the Peace Corps when I got finished with my tour in Colombia, and they sent me to Wisconsin to start out in, um, what's the name of the city at the very top that's part of Minnesota, I think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Superior, Wisconsin. Duluth, Minnesota."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Duluth, Minnesota, and Superior. Yeah. So I went there first and then I traveled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were working for Peace Corps after?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00000:621", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, yeah. I recruited for the Peace Corps when I got finished with my tour in Colombia, and they sent me to Wisconsin to start out in, um, what's the name of the city at the very top that's part of Minnesota, I think?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Superior, Wisconsin. Duluth, Minnesota."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Duluth, Minnesota, and Superior. Yeah. So I went there first and then I traveled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were working for Peace Corps after?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. I came back and I was a recruiter. You know, they had this program where they took former volunteers and they sent them all over the country. And I drove from there all the way down to Madison. It was one of the nicest experiences that I've ever had. Yeah, it was, I loved it. I went from real cold snow and all that in Duluth down to into springtime. Yeah, it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful. Well, this has been a delightful interview. Thank you very much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00209:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 47.534561000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was the water boiler."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The water boiler."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Now, there was only—I’m not sure. There may not have been but one. Couldn’t have been more than a couple of unmanned flights. But, yes, they did. There was a design change."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then as you monitored the manned flights after that, did you find more and more, [or] you were pretty set and ready to go for the lunar landing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. The lunar vehicle, I don’t remember any changes that we made in our area. In fact, we didn’t make any changes in the Earth orbit vehicles, either, that I can recall. But they did have to limp along, because the radiator wasn’t very good. They did have the better flash evaporator by then.\\n\\n But the systems, they were tested well and designed well, and they worked well. That was our job. Our job was if the contractor does it right, then that’s good, and if the contractor doesn’t do it right, then it’s our responsibility to tell somebody and get it fixed. And that’s what we did. If it ever didn’t work, they came to us and said, “Why didn’t it work?”\\n\\n We couldn’t say, “It’s not our fault. They did it.” That didn’t work. It was our design. We had to own the design. That’s a phrase I use these days. I never used that phrase then, but we owned the design. It didn’t matter who invented it, but by the time it was certified on the vehicle, we owned it. We’re the ones that said, “It will work. It’s been tested adequately, designed adequately. It will work.” Therefore, on those things that we didn’t believe that, then we had an obligation to get to the project manager early and say, “You’ve got a problem here. You have to do something.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about your area doing integration. How was it set up that you did integration with the rest of the areas, so that everything met the schedule to get to the Moon by the end of the decade?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00209:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Several times we had some findings. For example, the cold environment was really too cold for the Shuttle glove. I went through a lot of work to try to develop a system where we keep their hands warm. The early Shuttle flights, the hands of the crew got really cold, and when they’re cold, of course, they don’t do their job very well, and also it’s very uncomfortable. It’s all bad. There was a lot of work done there.\\n\\n As far as the design is concerned, I think that the design involved a lot. We would have areas that would chafe the crewmen, and we’d have to repair or make mods to make it more friendly, anthropomorphically friendly. We’ve had fogging that we had to take care of in the visors. A lot of small findings. I can’t recall anything specific.\\n\\n I guess the display on the chest, the Shuttle suit has a display unit on the chest; of course, the Apollo unit did, too. It’s thermally sensitive. I think it would get too hot, and you couldn’t read it. It would fade the display out, or the display would go out. So there have been those kinds of things. The cooling control, I think, was too gross. It needed to be finer so they could adjust it better to stay comfortable.\\n\\n Again, I’m really not the right person to talk to. Did you talk to Jim [James W.] McBarron [II]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the right person to talk to for that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right. Well, we’re getting close to the time to stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it looks like we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This may be a good time, and when we come back, we can pick up with Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab and go from there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00209:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’s the right person to talk to for that kind of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. All right. Well, we’re getting close to the time to stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it looks like we are."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This may be a good time, and when we come back, we can pick up with Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab and go from there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00024:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 127.39310776881099, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "These are all mine. I’ve taken photographs my entire life, since I was a boy. That’s the good news. The bad news is I have kept almost no records, but I have both the films and the photographs, and I will methodically start to go through those. There may well be some that would be of interest to your archives."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, looking several years in the future—which I would be more than happy to give to you if they show up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Well, I’ll give you that information. I know that the archivist right now is looking for personal effects."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. Well, I definitely have a lot from these survival schools, and they’re quite fun photos."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that sounds like fun. I wanted to ask you next about your book, Entering Space. Why did you decide to write that book, and what was the reception of the book?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00024:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 59.20921733468616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did. I did. I have very little recollection of—well, my problem, Jennifer, I served on a Don [Donald P.] Hearth Committee, and then I served on an Augustine Committee, and their charter was virtually the same. In my mind the memories are jumbled. Now, the Don Hearth Committee had been chartered by Jim Fletcher, and it was to assume that we have a working Space Shuttle in the late 1970s. What should we use the Space Shuttle for, and what other big pieces of equipment do we need to augment it? In that, Max Faget, Joe [Joseph P.] Kerwin, and myself were representatives on that. That was an all-NASA committee from the Manned Spacecraft Center. We were to sort of deal with the human aspects of spaceflight.\\n\\n At one point we came up with our recommendation, which Joe Kerwin and I wrote, and Max agreed to. It was a little bit irreverent, but the assumption was we now have a Space Shuttle going to and from, and the way we summarized ours was, “After serious thought, our study group will thus advise our nation. We’ve built a railroad into space, and now we need a station.” [Laughs] Well, I’ve come to regret that advice, because I’m not a fan of the Station, and we no longer have a railroad into space, which is still another problem.\\n\\n The Augustine group, it sat in what year and reported out in what year?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nineteen ninety, you were selected."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I was no longer a NASA person when I sat on that group. I was Space Industries. Tell me one or two of the other members of that group. They were non-NASA people, is that correct?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They were. I don’t have that with me."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Or were they all NASA people? Norm [Norman R. Augustine] was not a NASA person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Norm Augustine? I don’t believe so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00024:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 65.85767007268123, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Are you still recording okay, can you tell?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I am, yes. We probably have about another twenty minutes. I wanted to ask you about the Hubble Space Telescope EVA [Extravehicular Activity] assessment that you participated in, and my notes indicate that you wanted to talk about a Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin conversation."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ah, I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometime back you told me this."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This was in—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00024:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 87.0373738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Okay, there were. Okay, there may well have been. But they were equally good spacewalkers, so there was not a rookie spacewalker. And they said, “Oh, that’s interesting,” and they did it. And get them assigned right now such they can get a lot of work in the WETF [Weightless Environment Test Facility]. Somewhat to my surprise, those selections were made about a couple of weeks after I sent the letter. Story later said thank you to me.\\n\\n I said, “Story, I didn’t cite you by name.” But, of course, you’ve interviewed Story, I’m sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven’t, actually. He’s on the list."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know him at all?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I don’t, but I’ve heard he’s quite a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When the Lord made Story, he threw the mold away. No doubt. No doubt. He’s as unique an individual—I mean, every individual is unique, but Story sets a new record for uniqueness, in large part, Jennifer, because of the enormous obstacles he overcame as a young man growing up. He came from quite a bizarre, dysfunctional, and I think maybe even an abusive family, and he himself was just an accident waiting to happen growing up. Somehow he got through it all and became an astronaut, and he’s among the most of the flown astronauts, he and Franklin [R. Chang-Diaz] and I’m not sure who else. Oh, you have to get Story. But pack your lunch; it’s going to be an all-day journey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right. Let me change the tape.\\n\\n [Tape change]\n\nI wanted to ask you about your role as an astronaut advisor on two films, Mission to Mars and Armageddon."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 20, "return_to_go": 73.28537803176954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife was—I didn’t have any kids at the time, and she was happy, real happy, thought it was a neat thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was your father still alive at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, my parents are still alive now. He’s now ninety, which is a good thing. I mean, it’s wonderful that he has lived to have seen all this happen. Some people, like another one of my class members, his father passed away before his first Shuttle flight. I always thought what a shame, at least his father didn’t get to see any of that. But, no, my parents have lived right on through all this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they excited when they heard the news?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Yes. Of course, I’m from a small town. So that’s a bigger deal, I think, in a small town than if you’re from Chicago or somewhere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about your training and your assignments when you first came down to the [NASA Lyndon B. Johnson] Space Center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 73.10724222375738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we tested them in the simulator. We didn’t actually design the flight test maneuvers. The engineers would do that, and then we’d fly them in the simulator. Most of them are automatic. You turn them on, and the computer does some—others are manual, and the manuals, you say, “Well, is this practical for this point in the entry?” and everything like that. So you’re always looking at it from a crew member standpoint. “What’s the workload like? Does this work out okay? Is there a better way to do it?” That kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of your duties on STS-2 was to act as a CapCom [Capsule Communicator], and you were actually the backup entry CapCom. Can you tell us about your duties there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I just was sitting next to Rick [Frederick H.] Hauck, who was the entry CapCom. I was trying to think of who—we had it different in those days. Nowadays there is a flight control team that works both ascent and entry, and then you have your orbit teams. Then, they had a separate team for ascent, a separate team for entry, and a separate team for orbit. So I was on the entry team with Rick. I don’t know if I ever really even talked on the radio to the Shuttle. I think I just rode sidesaddle with him, was learning from him on that one and assisting him. So that then on the third flight I did it; I was the CapCom. And I only did it for one flight. Nowadays these guys go over for assignment and the Shuttle flies often enough that they’ll do several flights while they’re working over there a couple years. I wound up being there just for two flights, but there was a longer time between flights then. Really, I don’t remember much about STS-2 except that I was kind of Rick’s assistant and learning from him. It was like OJT [On-the-Job Training]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. What about STS-3? There actually was a landing made at White Sands."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that something that you simulated as a CapCom?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 48.02077914935285, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, but it was our fault. But had we done that in the simulator, we probably would have seen that, would have noticed. Even though you don’t have as good a visual scene as the real world, we would have noticed which way it rolled, and it was wrong. So it was a good lesson learned, no matter how simple it is, to go prove it out in the simulator and make sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You also received a Defense Superior Service Medal for the first RMS [Remote Manipulator System]-controlled deployment of the SPARTAN vehicle. Can you talk about that? Did you actually train with the RMS before the mission?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t know about that, because I think that must have been a generic award for the whole crew. Because I’ll be honest with you, I mean, John Fabian operated the arm. I did not. I wasn’t a trained arm operator. My duties on that flight were MS-2, and I had some experiments, and I was the photo TV person. I did a lot of photo documentation, which I was proud of, because some of it came out pretty good. I still see some of the footage that I took on some ads around here. But to be honest with you, I did not operate the arm. I did not fly the Shuttle for the rendezvous. I assisted, but Dan flew. Dan did all that, so I think that’s part of a group generic award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes we see that and it doesn’t turn out to be correct. All right.\\n\\n Why don’t you tell us about the crew and the crew’s relationship during this mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first mission, during 51-G."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.13419905483649, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I don’t know about that, because I think that must have been a generic award for the whole crew. Because I’ll be honest with you, I mean, John Fabian operated the arm. I did not. I wasn’t a trained arm operator. My duties on that flight were MS-2, and I had some experiments, and I was the photo TV person. I did a lot of photo documentation, which I was proud of, because some of it came out pretty good. I still see some of the footage that I took on some ads around here. But to be honest with you, I did not operate the arm. I did not fly the Shuttle for the rendezvous. I assisted, but Dan flew. Dan did all that, so I think that’s part of a group generic award."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes we see that and it doesn’t turn out to be correct. All right.\\n\\n Why don’t you tell us about the crew and the crew’s relationship during this mission."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first mission, during 51-G."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. I mean, Dan’s a great commander. He later was the chief astronaut. This was the first flight of all crew members from my group, my astronaut group, because Dan, J.O., Shannon, John, and myself were all in the same 1978 class. Then the two payload specialists, of course, but they were not—so it was the first all-’78 group. So we all knew each other pretty well. Dan’s a great guy. J. O.’s funny, good, a lot of fun to fly with. Shannon is just great. I mean, that was her first flight, my first flight. She went on to fly a lot, of course. Have you interviewed her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t. She’s on the list, though."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 56.8157767275961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first one?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your first mission, during 51-G."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. I mean, Dan’s a great commander. He later was the chief astronaut. This was the first flight of all crew members from my group, my astronaut group, because Dan, J.O., Shannon, John, and myself were all in the same 1978 class. Then the two payload specialists, of course, but they were not—so it was the first all-’78 group. So we all knew each other pretty well. Dan’s a great guy. J. O.’s funny, good, a lot of fun to fly with. Shannon is just great. I mean, that was her first flight, my first flight. She went on to fly a lot, of course. Have you interviewed her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t. She’s on the list, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need to get her. But she’s just well adapted to space flight in every respect. She’s just really good at it and a pleasure to fly with. John’s a lot of fun. John was a real kick to fly with. So we all got along well. And Patrick and Sultan were fine, too. There were no particular problems with that crew, from my standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, were you actually able to go with the crew to France and to Saudi Arabia?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 53.12864080844011, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. I mean, Dan’s a great commander. He later was the chief astronaut. This was the first flight of all crew members from my group, my astronaut group, because Dan, J.O., Shannon, John, and myself were all in the same 1978 class. Then the two payload specialists, of course, but they were not—so it was the first all-’78 group. So we all knew each other pretty well. Dan’s a great guy. J. O.’s funny, good, a lot of fun to fly with. Shannon is just great. I mean, that was her first flight, my first flight. She went on to fly a lot, of course. Have you interviewed her?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, we haven’t. She’s on the list, though."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You need to get her. But she’s just well adapted to space flight in every respect. She’s just really good at it and a pleasure to fly with. John’s a lot of fun. John was a real kick to fly with. So we all got along well. And Patrick and Sultan were fine, too. There were no particular problems with that crew, from my standpoint."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you came back, were you actually able to go with the crew to France and to Saudi Arabia?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Saudi, but not France. They went to France before my second flight, and I couldn’t go with them to France. So everybody but me went to France, and then to Saudi, we all went because that was in December of that year, and that was shortly after. My second flight was in October, November, late October, early November. And December we went to Saudi Arabia. So it was quite a year. Nineteen eight-five was a benchmark year. I’ve never had a year before or since like that one. But the trip to Saudi Arabia to me, anyways, was more out of this world than going into orbit. Really, it was quite a trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that PR trip."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 29.233050914181135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to move on and talk about\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n ."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when you found out about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was I? I was watching the launch over here in Building 4. I had flown in November and had gone to Saudi Arabia in that December, and then we had a PR trip to Germany in January right after Christmas, so we’d just got back from that trip. We were probably a week back from that trip.\\n\\n Ironically, I remember one of the questions one of the students asked that we had met, we were talking at a university over in Munich, I think it was. Said, “What if one of the solid rocket boosters failed?”\\n\\n Hank said, “Well, it would be really bad.” So a few days later it happened.\\n\\n So I was just watching it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you watching it in your office or with a group of—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 32.48116768242348, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where were you when you found out about the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n accident?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was I? I was watching the launch over here in Building 4. I had flown in November and had gone to Saudi Arabia in that December, and then we had a PR trip to Germany in January right after Christmas, so we’d just got back from that trip. We were probably a week back from that trip.\\n\\n Ironically, I remember one of the questions one of the students asked that we had met, we were talking at a university over in Munich, I think it was. Said, “What if one of the solid rocket boosters failed?”\\n\\n Hank said, “Well, it would be really bad.” So a few days later it happened.\\n\\n So I was just watching it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you watching it in your office or with a group of—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was down in a conference room. I was sitting—I even remember who I was sitting beside when that happened, but it was just—we were all watching it, and said—you don’t want to believe it. “This isn’t right.” We all knew it was bad when we saw it, but you just don’t want to believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any duties immediately after the—?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 29.4235196471372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where was I? I was watching the launch over here in Building 4. I had flown in November and had gone to Saudi Arabia in that December, and then we had a PR trip to Germany in January right after Christmas, so we’d just got back from that trip. We were probably a week back from that trip.\\n\\n Ironically, I remember one of the questions one of the students asked that we had met, we were talking at a university over in Munich, I think it was. Said, “What if one of the solid rocket boosters failed?”\\n\\n Hank said, “Well, it would be really bad.” So a few days later it happened.\\n\\n So I was just watching it on TV."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you watching it in your office or with a group of—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was down in a conference room. I was sitting—I even remember who I was sitting beside when that happened, but it was just—we were all watching it, and said—you don’t want to believe it. “This isn’t right.” We all knew it was bad when we saw it, but you just don’t want to believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any duties immediately after the—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right after that we had a—Paul [J.] Weitz was the Deputy Chief of the Astronaut Office, called everybody in. I forget what he said, but then Overmyer, Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer was assigned to go to Florida right away and me with him. I don’t know if anybody else went down, but I jumped in his back seat in a T-38, and in a couple of hours we went to Florida. The families were still down there. When we got down there, the families were still in crew quarters, at least some of them. June Scobee was there, others. So it was bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do while you were in Florida? Did you work with the crew families?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.24835516348578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I was down in a conference room. I was sitting—I even remember who I was sitting beside when that happened, but it was just—we were all watching it, and said—you don’t want to believe it. “This isn’t right.” We all knew it was bad when we saw it, but you just don’t want to believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any duties immediately after the—?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right after that we had a—Paul [J.] Weitz was the Deputy Chief of the Astronaut Office, called everybody in. I forget what he said, but then Overmyer, Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer was assigned to go to Florida right away and me with him. I don’t know if anybody else went down, but I jumped in his back seat in a T-38, and in a couple of hours we went to Florida. The families were still down there. When we got down there, the families were still in crew quarters, at least some of them. June Scobee was there, others. So it was bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do while you were in Florida? Did you work with the crew families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they all left. They left later that day, but we quickly got organized and had some meetings about, “What are we going to do?” And there were several immediate tasks like retrieval of debris and cataloging it, things like that. So I got assigned to follow the retrieval of the debris. I mean, the Navy was doing that, but I mean, so I found myself down at the docks a lot, Port Canaveral, where they were bringing pieces in, and then they were getting them arranged in a big warehouse up there. I did that for a few weeks, I guess. I don’t know. Because I was even down at Florida when they had the big ceremony back in Houston when President [Ronald] Reagan—I wasn’t here. I was in Florida then. So it was a grim time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been difficult."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 31.387061292761977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, right after that we had a—Paul [J.] Weitz was the Deputy Chief of the Astronaut Office, called everybody in. I forget what he said, but then Overmyer, Bob [Robert F.] Overmyer was assigned to go to Florida right away and me with him. I don’t know if anybody else went down, but I jumped in his back seat in a T-38, and in a couple of hours we went to Florida. The families were still down there. When we got down there, the families were still in crew quarters, at least some of them. June Scobee was there, others. So it was bad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you do while you were in Florida? Did you work with the crew families?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they all left. They left later that day, but we quickly got organized and had some meetings about, “What are we going to do?” And there were several immediate tasks like retrieval of debris and cataloging it, things like that. So I got assigned to follow the retrieval of the debris. I mean, the Navy was doing that, but I mean, so I found myself down at the docks a lot, Port Canaveral, where they were bringing pieces in, and then they were getting them arranged in a big warehouse up there. I did that for a few weeks, I guess. I don’t know. Because I was even down at Florida when they had the big ceremony back in Houston when President [Ronald] Reagan—I wasn’t here. I was in Florida then. So it was a grim time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been difficult."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it was. So I stayed with that for a while, then came back. Somewhere, I can’t remember exactly when, but I got into the crew escape thing shortly after that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about that. You actually represented the Astronaut Office in the creation of the crew escape system. What role did you have in deciding on the escape pole system?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.330499613709765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Not just me. There were other studies done. Even early on after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n we contracted with the Navy to do some studies of how you would eject up to, I think, seven people or so out of the Shuttle. It’s hard, though. Ejection seats aren’t that small, and to get six or seven of those in the Shuttle and then figure a way to eject them out of the Shuttle and then you’ve got to go live in it. It’s not like an airplane where you just sit in your seat for the whole flight. You’re going to live in this place after you get on orbit and you’ve got to do work up there. So the seats have to be moved somehow to make room for that. It’s easy to say, “I want to do this,” but then when you start to getting down to the practicality of how you actually use this vehicle and what you do with it, it’s hard. It’s real hard. Not an easy solution."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This looks like it would be a good time for us to stop."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we’re back with Steve Nagel, and I’d like to talk to you about STS-37. That was actually the first mission that you commanded."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about your duties as commander. How did they differ from being a mission specialist or a pilot?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 33.700555126344184, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay.\\n\\n [Tape recorder turned off.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we’re back with Steve Nagel, and I’d like to talk to you about STS-37. That was actually the first mission that you commanded."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about your duties as commander. How did they differ from being a mission specialist or a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re responsible. [Laughs] If it goes well, you take the pats on the back. If it goes poorly, you take the blame. But really, I mean, of course the commander is the one that lands the airplane, traditionally, but other than that, you’re a manager of a small group of people who are highly motivated and focused, and it’s really with most, if not all, these groups is a pretty easy job, because all you’ve got to do is point them in the right direction, and they want to do the right thing.\\n\\n You wind up having to interface a lot with all the other communities like the flight directors, to work out the issues before the mission, and then get to go execute it. But it’s really basically what all the pilots want to do anyway, is get to be a commander of one of these missions. It was a very rewarding experience. I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunity to select your crew members?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 36.33395014038243, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about your duties as commander. How did they differ from being a mission specialist or a pilot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You’re responsible. [Laughs] If it goes well, you take the pats on the back. If it goes poorly, you take the blame. But really, I mean, of course the commander is the one that lands the airplane, traditionally, but other than that, you’re a manager of a small group of people who are highly motivated and focused, and it’s really with most, if not all, these groups is a pretty easy job, because all you’ve got to do is point them in the right direction, and they want to do the right thing.\\n\\n You wind up having to interface a lot with all the other communities like the flight directors, to work out the issues before the mission, and then get to go execute it. But it’s really basically what all the pilots want to do anyway, is get to be a commander of one of these missions. It was a very rewarding experience. I enjoyed it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any opportunity to select your crew members?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That’s interesting. Not a bit. Just walked over there with them that day, and here they are. So I guess if you don’t like who you’re paired up with, it’s too late then. But it was never a problem for me.\\n\\n And on the flip side of the coin, they gave me no choice or input in the selection of the crew. On the other hand, when we decided who did what on the crew, especially with regard to EVA, it was totally up to me. Nobody really gave me any guidance on that at all. It was whoever I wanted to pick. Obviously, they wouldn’t let you pick the pilot, because the pilots don’t do the EVAs, but among the mission specialists. So that was kind of interesting to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why don’t you tell us about how you selected these individuals to serve in the various positions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.358546500059838, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a cheap lesson, yes. I pass it on when I’m instructing with the STA. I can set up an approach that looks similar to that, low energy, and say, “If you ever get here, don’t mess around. Get back on the glide path right away.” I was trying to be real smooth with it and not fully complying with the guidance command, just partway to be smooth and get it back, and that wasn’t the answer that day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s great that you’re an instructor now, and you can offer that advice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Here’s something I did that you shouldn’t do.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’91, you also became the Acting Chief of the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year or so, I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about your duties as acting chief?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 30.398385000066487, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Here’s something I did that you shouldn’t do.”"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’91, you also became the Acting Chief of the Astronaut Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For a year or so, I did, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you talk to us about your duties as acting chief?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did everything—you’re running a big office. Not as big as this now. But lots of issues, lots of things to work. The flights. I did everything but the crew assignments.\\n\\n Dan Brandenstein was the chief, and he retained that responsibility. He didn’t parcel that out to me. So I didn’t have anything to do with any crew assignments during that period, but I did the rest, and it was real busy. It was a busy, hard, responsible job, and I think it’s a lot busier now. It’s a lot more complicated with two programs, the Space Station and the Shuttle, and a lot bigger office than it was. It was probably, I don’t know, eighty or ninety astronauts then. Now it’s what, 140, 150. I’m not sure.\\n\\n But it was very busy, I remember, because I got—let’s see, I started doing that in ’91, like you said. In early ’92, I got assigned to this other Spacelab flight, the German Spacelab flight, and I trained for that, and somewhere in the summer or fall of ’92, I gave up the—I was within six months of this other flight when I gave up the chief job, and my workload dropped to a fraction of what it was. It was real easy to be a commander of flight compared to running the Astronaut Office. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any major concerns that you had to deal with or certain issues that the astronauts often came to you about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9309704021800003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In my mind, I think the crew escape system, more so than flying on the Shuttle. The flights were great, but in a way, I got more personal satisfaction out of having worked on something that I think did some good like that, than even the flights. Not that I want to trade the flights, because that’s why I came here, but that was the high point for me.\\n\\n And, I’ve talked to a lot of these people that worked on this project, that crew escape project, not just in NASA, but some in NASA, even Bill Chandler, the manager, the chief Navy jumper, that did the jump on the pole. They said this was the high point of their career. It was the best thing they ever did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because it was so important to everybody. I mean, the Shuttle’s grounded, and we’re doing something that’s going to get it flying again. I think everybody, almost no matter what they worked on through that time period, had a similar feeling. Really, it must have been kind of like people felt going to the Moon, a little bit. I don’t want to compare it exactly, but that kind of a feeling.\\n\\n I had that overall feeling working on the Shuttle Program, anyway, or in Station Program no matter what capacity, even in what I’m doing now. You feel like you’re a part of something that’s bigger than you, that’s worth doing, which is really great. Not everybody gets that opportunity to work on something like we do here. But I really had that feeling on the crew escape project for that year or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a really interesting perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask one more question."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.2566337802, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because it was so important to everybody. I mean, the Shuttle’s grounded, and we’re doing something that’s going to get it flying again. I think everybody, almost no matter what they worked on through that time period, had a similar feeling. Really, it must have been kind of like people felt going to the Moon, a little bit. I don’t want to compare it exactly, but that kind of a feeling.\\n\\n I had that overall feeling working on the Shuttle Program, anyway, or in Station Program no matter what capacity, even in what I’m doing now. You feel like you’re a part of something that’s bigger than you, that’s worth doing, which is really great. Not everybody gets that opportunity to work on something like we do here. But I really had that feeling on the crew escape project for that year or two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a really interesting perspective."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask one more question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re actually married to an astronaut now."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.618481978, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’d like to ask one more question."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re actually married to an astronaut now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Linda Godwin. I’m wondering, how has that impacted your family life? Had you already retired from the astronaut corps when you married Linda?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.90942442, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You’re actually married to an astronaut now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Linda Godwin. I’m wondering, how has that impacted your family life? Had you already retired from the astronaut corps when you married Linda?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, so there was no conflict of interest there, because she would’ve been my boss, because she was the Deputy of the Astronaut Office by that time. So, no, I’d already left. By the time I started seeing her, courting her, I was almost out. I was within a month of being out of the Astronaut Office, then I was gone. So we were in different offices\\n\\n And how did it affect us? I’m not unique, but I’ve seen this program from a whole bunch of different perspectives now. I’ve flown in it. I’m now a former astronaut. I’m now a pilot for aircraft operations that supports it. And now I’m married to an astronaut, and she flew two flights while we were married. The last one, we got a little girl, so I got all this and it is very stressful on the families when these flights go. It really is. And I always knew that, but, I mean, you’ve got to be a family member sitting up there or standing up on the roof of the Launch Control Center watching your spouse go fly. You know something could go wrong. It’s not likely, but it could. So I’ve got a lot higher respect for the families, I always did, that stand by their husband or wife when they’re doing this. Now she’s not going to go fly anymore. She’s publicly said that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, has she?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.9909800000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For which I am glad. I’m glad she got to do it, but in a way I’m glad that that part’s behind us. But she had really a great career. I mean, she flew on the mission we were on with the GRO, and then she got to do a radar-mapping mission with the Shuttle, which was really neat. Then she went to the Mir and did a spacewalk on it, and then she went to the Space Station and did a spacewalk on it.\\n\\n I told her, in the Shuttle Program anyway, how could you have a more varied and good career? I mean, there’s nothing that she didn’t do, as far as what a mission specialist would want to do in this whole program. But it was great. It was a great run for her, and she’s happy about that, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. Great. I’m glad to hear that. Sounds like you’re happy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you don’t mind, I would like to ask Rebecca and Sandra if they have any questions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at all."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. Rebecca?\n\nI’ve got a couple. While you were Chief of the Astronaut Office, you mentioned that several of the astronauts or some astronauts would come in and talk to you about different issues, one of them being the pressure suits. Since you’ve been on both sides of that issue, you flew before\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n and after\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n , could you spend a few minutes sharing with us the pros and cons, from your perspective, as well as from the astronauts, of wearing the two different suits, and what do you feel the benefits are?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I think it did. Not that you had to work in SAIL to be adequately trained to fly, but we got to know the software and the associated avionics real well. The first flight we had an MDM, Multiplexer/Demultiplexer problem. In real life, the signatures are never the same as what you get in the simulator, but it probably helped me just in a broad sense, but it wasn’t necessary for being adequately trained to go fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And sort of a follow onto Rebecca’s, when you entered with the ’78 class and now dealing with the astronaut candidates and astronauts now, do you see any differences other than being younger?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got older, and they all got younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any differences in the people that are choosing to be astronauts as far as their training or the way they tailor their education or anything of that sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking here. Not really. No, I don’t think so. I think, my group, the pilots, a lot of them had the Vietnam experience because that’s the age we were. These folks, a lot of them had the Gulf War experience, some of them, anyway, some got some combat experience. They’re very sharp. They’re very smart. The others, no, I think the background and the education, the experience of the groups are fairly similar. They’re just younger. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all. Thanks.\n\nIs there anything else you’d like to talk about that we’ve perhaps missed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I got older, and they all got younger."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any differences in the people that are choosing to be astronauts as far as their training or the way they tailor their education or anything of that sort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking here. Not really. No, I don’t think so. I think, my group, the pilots, a lot of them had the Vietnam experience because that’s the age we were. These folks, a lot of them had the Gulf War experience, some of them, anyway, some got some combat experience. They’re very sharp. They’re very smart. The others, no, I think the background and the education, the experience of the groups are fairly similar. They’re just younger. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all. Thanks.\n\nIs there anything else you’d like to talk about that we’ve perhaps missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you’ve probably covered it. I haven’t thought about a lot about this in years. So I’m sorry I probably forgot a lot of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think you’ve done great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00428:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m thinking here. Not really. No, I don’t think so. I think, my group, the pilots, a lot of them had the Vietnam experience because that’s the age we were. These folks, a lot of them had the Gulf War experience, some of them, anyway, some got some combat experience. They’re very sharp. They’re very smart. The others, no, I think the background and the education, the experience of the groups are fairly similar. They’re just younger. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s all. Thanks.\n\nIs there anything else you’d like to talk about that we’ve perhaps missed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, you’ve probably covered it. I haven’t thought about a lot about this in years. So I’m sorry I probably forgot a lot of things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, I think you’ve done great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Some people have a real sharp memory for everything that happened to them in the past, and I really don’t. I forget about a lot of it, but it’s all been fun. It reminded me of some of the really good times on some of these flights. Like 1985 for me was kind of a banner year. [Laughs] I don’t think I could stand that pace very long, but it was okay. For a year it was great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We want to thank you again for joining us today, taking time out of your schedule."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00907:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Today is August 3rd, 2011. August 5th will be the one-year anniversary of the entrapment of the miners, and the Chileans, with help from the State Department and the Smithsonian [Institution], are putting on a display at the Museum of Natural History that shows the actual Phoenix [Fenix] capsule. There will be other artifacts from the mine site, including rocks from the mine, as I understand it, and maybe some examples of the hardware, other hardware that was used, like the drill bit.\\n\\n Tonight at the Museum of Natural History they’re having a reception to inaugurate this display that will be open to the public on the anniversary date of the entrapment, August 5th. We’re looking forward to going over there and seeing the artifacts and hopefully being able to see some of the people that we met when we were in Chile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Renewing friendships. I think J.D. Polk made that statement that you went down representing your country but came back as friends."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Absolutely. That was a great comment and, I think, really captured what we were feeling at the time when we were down there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything else that you would like to cover or anything else you would like to add before we close for the day? I don’t want to take your entire morning, but I certainly want to give you an opportunity."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This has gone by very quickly here. I think we’ve covered it. There’s probably little stories that would come to mind, but I think we’ve covered it in good detail."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The only one I didn’t cover that I was thinking about was regarding the headlines I was reviewing on how NASA was the reason why there was no booze or cigarettes [sent to the miners]."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.060504209892025, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came into the Peace Corps from college or very, you know, a few months after college. And I I think I don't have much idea about what interested me from my background, from it. I my family was interested in people. So that might have helped some. I didn't I think I heard about it in college. I think I was young and idealistic. I. Think that I applied while I was still at College of William and Mary in Virginia, and my recollection is that I spent the summer after I graduated trying to figure out why I wasn't being called for the Peace Corps. I had wanted to go to South America and learn Spanish. I thought that would be a useful language to learn. And eventually I made phone calls to the Peace Corps trying to find out why I hadn't heard anything. And I don't remember all the ins and outs except that eventually somebody listened to me. But I got sent to Fiji and learned to understand me instead of being sent to South America and learning Spanish. So in retrospect, that was a really good thing for me, because I grew up in a partly segregated household in Delaware, are not a household but community. And I probably would not have intentionally gone into a country where race relations were an issue, which they were in ‘69 and ‘70 when I went to Fiji. So it was a very good lesson to learn for me and going there. But it wasn't where I wanted to go and I didn't want to teach secondary school, which is what I ended up teaching. So there were a lot of things I didn't want to do that turned out to be very good in my life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you know anything about Fiji before you went?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know where it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I don't remember now, but probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most people would say we're very lucky to go to Fiji. And tell me about your educational background. What did you study and what do you specialize in that was appropriate for Fiji?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 15.622782455435583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nothing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know where it was?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably not. I don't remember now, but probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Most people would say we're very lucky to go to Fiji. And tell me about your educational background. What did you study and what do you specialize in that was appropriate for Fiji?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I, I think when I was hoping to go to South America, I wanted to be involved in social programs and probably programs with children or. Oh, in any case, I didn't want to teach. But what I studied in college was biology, primarily plant biology, even though the degree had to be a general biology degree. And so that's, I think, why I got picked up for Fiji because they were looking for science teachers. So I taught in a secondary school and I taught English as well as biology. But they wanted science teachers in Fiji at the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. You mentioned you did your training in Hawaii. What was that like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.48255480855361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we met first in Southern California, but after I don't remember a short period of time and some choosing people not to go on, choosing people to go into training, we went to Moloka’i and that was a fairly remote place at that time. And it poured a lot rain, which it does in Fiji. So that probably helped prepare us. They brought Hindustani and Fijian speaking people from Fiji to teach us language in Hawaii. We had over 100 people on our training group, which is really different from what I think they're doing today. So there were a lot of us there in an old school that they used as a place for us to have to to live. My main, well, I remember a couple of things. One was that one of our members went hiking or climbing and fell and did not return and died. And that was a very, very traumatic experience for the whole group to go through, to not know where he was and then to finally find his body. And then somewhere around Christmas or New Year's, we had a big pig, whatever lovo there. And since I was in the Hindustani program, I hadn't learned a lot about that. But it was a big event to be away from your family at Christmas time and to go have that in spite of all the rain."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. So you said Hindustani. So what language did you speak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's I was taught, Hindustani, but I was expected to teach in English. That was the goal to be taught. So I didn't use Hindustani a lot. And when I did, the kids thought it was hilarious. Oh, you know, but mostly I spoke English and taught English at the secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching Indian students or Fijian students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly Indian. Nadi College was a mostly Indian school and that was the head teacher or principal was Indian. But there were some Fijian kids and there were some mixed race kids and there were Chinese mixed race kids. So but mostly I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit more about the culture of these kids?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.53617200950401, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's I was taught, Hindustani, but I was expected to teach in English. That was the goal to be taught. So I didn't use Hindustani a lot. And when I did, the kids thought it was hilarious. Oh, you know, but mostly I spoke English and taught English at the secondary school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were teaching Indian students or Fijian students?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly Indian. Nadi College was a mostly Indian school and that was the head teacher or principal was Indian. But there were some Fijian kids and there were some mixed race kids and there were Chinese mixed race kids. So but mostly I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit more about the culture of these kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the kids that I taught?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's let's use those as probably the closest example."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 11.70685778833779, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly Indian. Nadi College was a mostly Indian school and that was the head teacher or principal was Indian. But there were some Fijian kids and there were some mixed race kids and there were Chinese mixed race kids. So but mostly I understand."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit more about the culture of these kids?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the kids that I taught?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's let's use those as probably the closest example."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do they come from? What are their homes like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.340953098153098, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You mean the kids that I taught?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, let's let's use those as probably the closest example."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, let's see."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where do they come from? What are their homes like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did visit a few homes. I didn't go to a lot of homes. I think the Fijian kids lived along the rivers and in some villages, the Indian kids lived in some villages and they also, you know, had families that lived in town. It seemed to me that they were much they worked hard to pay the fees for the kids to be able to go to school. I can remember and I don't know that that was Hindi, Hindustani or Fijian, but that, you know, I went to visit somebody and I got the only chair in the house at one time, which was kind of. You felt bad to get the only chair in the house to sit in, you know, and I did visit one of our Chinese Fijian families several times. So they had a little store out in the country in the cane fields, and they became good friends. But I didn't I didn't spend a lot of time out with student families. I had a roommate, another Peace Corps roommate the first year. The second year I lived alone in a in apartments. And so we became very close friends with the owners of the apartment complex, which was quite small. And I I searched for it when we went back for the Habitat for Humanity project a few years ago with one of my students whom I was able to find. And she was it didn't look very much like what I remembered it. So she was trying to help me find where I had lived was an apartment. It was, I'm sure, entirely different from what my kids were living in. It was more for the white folk apartment type thing. But I was very close to the I called the mommy and my mom are uncle and aunt that owned the complex and she let me use her treadle sewing machine so that I could make clothes for myself. So I remember that well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you mentioned you got the only chair. What where did the rest of the family sit?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.698152398015223, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, they either stood or sat on the floor, I suppose. I don't remember very much about that. I suppose I was startled that there was only one chair in the place."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So were there Fijian mats on the floor in an Indian house?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, in the villages they sit on Fiji mats and drink out of bowls and eat with their fingers. So was the Indian household like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember eating at that household. I did go to several weddings, Indian weddings, and we did eat with our fingers there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about those because I've seen some of the very interesting."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.553502664461359, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, in the villages they sit on Fiji mats and drink out of bowls and eat with their fingers. So was the Indian household like that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember eating at that household. I did go to several weddings, Indian weddings, and we did eat with our fingers there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about those because I've seen some of the very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think I only went to a piece of them. You know, it wasn't days long, but brides usually wore a red or dark pink or something. And I didn't have much idea of what they were saying, but there was lots of good food usually. Yeah, that's what I remember. Yeah. And I, I would get sometimes to wear a sari to those, which was really fun to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A sari, that's a wrap around."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.503891849401509, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember eating at that household. I did go to several weddings, Indian weddings, and we did eat with our fingers there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about those because I've seen some of the very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think I only went to a piece of them. You know, it wasn't days long, but brides usually wore a red or dark pink or something. And I didn't have much idea of what they were saying, but there was lots of good food usually. Yeah, that's what I remember. Yeah. And I, I would get sometimes to wear a sari to those, which was really fun to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A sari, that's a wrap around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The clothing that Indian women, some Indian women wear or salwar and kameez, but I usually wear sari to weddings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, do you have any idea what their reaction to you was because you were one of the first groups."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.559879832668342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I think I only went to a piece of them. You know, it wasn't days long, but brides usually wore a red or dark pink or something. And I didn't have much idea of what they were saying, but there was lots of good food usually. Yeah, that's what I remember. Yeah. And I, I would get sometimes to wear a sari to those, which was really fun to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A sari, that's a wrap around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The clothing that Indian women, some Indian women wear or salwar and kameez, but I usually wear sari to weddings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, do you have any idea what their reaction to you was because you were one of the first groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you well accepted?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.733199814075935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The clothing that Indian women, some Indian women wear or salwar and kameez, but I usually wear sari to weddings."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, do you have any idea what their reaction to you was because you were one of the first groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you well accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was well accepted, yes, and I can remember my reaction and that we had a picture taken, which I still have, of the teachers of Nadi College together. We would do that once a year. And how startled I was to see myself as the only white person in that picture and how different I looked from everybody else in the picture, like everybody else is dark and I'm white. But I had no sense of that when I was just me being with the kids. You know, you're in the minority. I was in the minority, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although there were other Europeans or?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.036888682306593, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Hmm."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you well accepted?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was well accepted, yes, and I can remember my reaction and that we had a picture taken, which I still have, of the teachers of Nadi College together. We would do that once a year. And how startled I was to see myself as the only white person in that picture and how different I looked from everybody else in the picture, like everybody else is dark and I'm white. But I had no sense of that when I was just me being with the kids. You know, you're in the minority. I was in the minority, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although there were other Europeans or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the college. No. Let's see. Let me think. There were Indian teachers. Was there anybody else? No, I think I was the only person of a different race there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they knew the difference between you being a white American and some of the white volunteers from New Zealand or Australia or England?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.374320758118436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I was well accepted, yes, and I can remember my reaction and that we had a picture taken, which I still have, of the teachers of Nadi College together. We would do that once a year. And how startled I was to see myself as the only white person in that picture and how different I looked from everybody else in the picture, like everybody else is dark and I'm white. But I had no sense of that when I was just me being with the kids. You know, you're in the minority. I was in the minority, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although there were other Europeans or?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the college. No. Let's see. Let me think. There were Indian teachers. Was there anybody else? No, I think I was the only person of a different race there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they knew the difference between you being a white American and some of the white volunteers from New Zealand or Australia or England?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure they'd had experience with those people. So I don't know other than as tourists downtown, right? No, I don't know that they would have had the personal relationship that we developed over two years. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed to me it was sort of a colonial attitude towards the Europeans when I was out in the villages. But I was treated with great respect. But like, yeah, if there was a chair, I got it. Yeah. But I'd rather sit on the floor on the mats, drink kava. Did you ever drink kava?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.860356397909374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not at the college. No. Let's see. Let me think. There were Indian teachers. Was there anybody else? No, I think I was the only person of a different race there, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think they knew the difference between you being a white American and some of the white volunteers from New Zealand or Australia or England?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure they'd had experience with those people. So I don't know other than as tourists downtown, right? No, I don't know that they would have had the personal relationship that we developed over two years. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed to me it was sort of a colonial attitude towards the Europeans when I was out in the villages. But I was treated with great respect. But like, yeah, if there was a chair, I got it. Yeah. But I'd rather sit on the floor on the mats, drink kava. Did you ever drink kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only once or twice. Yeah. It was not my favorite. I was really glad not to have to drink it much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you care to explain what kava is?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 15.400395997677082, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not sure they'd had experience with those people. So I don't know other than as tourists downtown, right? No, I don't know that they would have had the personal relationship that we developed over two years. So, yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seemed to me it was sort of a colonial attitude towards the Europeans when I was out in the villages. But I was treated with great respect. But like, yeah, if there was a chair, I got it. Yeah. But I'd rather sit on the floor on the mats, drink kava. Did you ever drink kava?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only once or twice. Yeah. It was not my favorite. I was really glad not to have to drink it much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you care to explain what kava is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as a drink made from a pepper plant of some sort that is ground and mixed with water that Fijians drink and ceremony and other people they can invite to drink it if you're sitting in the circle. But it's not a cultural thing for the Hindustani or Chinese people to drink like it is for Fijian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, thank you. So tell me about the specific job that you had. You said you were a teacher. What subjects did you teach?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.444884441863424, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Only once or twice. Yeah. It was not my favorite. I was really glad not to have to drink it much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you care to explain what kava is?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as a drink made from a pepper plant of some sort that is ground and mixed with water that Fijians drink and ceremony and other people they can invite to drink it if you're sitting in the circle. But it's not a cultural thing for the Hindustani or Chinese people to drink like it is for Fijian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, thank you. So tell me about the specific job that you had. You said you were a teacher. What subjects did you teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught biology in English. I think I taught a health science one time. I did not teach the highest level. I taught like ninth grade in 11th grade, which went to 10th and 12th, the second year of English and biology. But there was another. Let's see, she was German and Fijian, no, German and Indian woman who taught the highest levels of biology and English there, who was a very close friend of mine. And I, you know, I enjoyed her friendship and her home with her parents. She lived with her parents. There was a lot I didn't know about Judy at the time that I've tried to find out a little bit about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.605427157626027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well as a drink made from a pepper plant of some sort that is ground and mixed with water that Fijians drink and ceremony and other people they can invite to drink it if you're sitting in the circle. But it's not a cultural thing for the Hindustani or Chinese people to drink like it is for Fijian people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, thank you. So tell me about the specific job that you had. You said you were a teacher. What subjects did you teach?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught biology in English. I think I taught a health science one time. I did not teach the highest level. I taught like ninth grade in 11th grade, which went to 10th and 12th, the second year of English and biology. But there was another. Let's see, she was German and Fijian, no, German and Indian woman who taught the highest levels of biology and English there, who was a very close friend of mine. And I, you know, I enjoyed her friendship and her home with her parents. She lived with her parents. There was a lot I didn't know about Judy at the time that I've tried to find out a little bit about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.561585730695585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I taught biology in English. I think I taught a health science one time. I did not teach the highest level. I taught like ninth grade in 11th grade, which went to 10th and 12th, the second year of English and biology. But there was another. Let's see, she was German and Fijian, no, German and Indian woman who taught the highest levels of biology and English there, who was a very close friend of mine. And I, you know, I enjoyed her friendship and her home with her parents. She lived with her parents. There was a lot I didn't know about Judy at the time that I've tried to find out a little bit about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you still in touch with her?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned that when we were trying to go back for the Habitat for Humanity project because the Fijian woman volunteered to help us find old friends while we were there. She found out that Judy had died. Judy did come to the United States once. And I got to pick her up at the airport and take her for, let's see, a friend's national conference in Seattle. And it warmed my heart. I had been working on peace issues and non nuclear proliferation issues in Bellingham at the time. And I found out that Judy had been working on those projects in Fiji since I had seen her, which was very heartwarming. But she died of of, um, I'm not sure what, but not under good circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry to hear that. As I remember, Fiji was a nuclear free zone."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.623984145217316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, she's died."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I'm sorry."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned that when we were trying to go back for the Habitat for Humanity project because the Fijian woman volunteered to help us find old friends while we were there. She found out that Judy had died. Judy did come to the United States once. And I got to pick her up at the airport and take her for, let's see, a friend's national conference in Seattle. And it warmed my heart. I had been working on peace issues and non nuclear proliferation issues in Bellingham at the time. And I found out that Judy had been working on those projects in Fiji since I had seen her, which was very heartwarming. But she died of of, um, I'm not sure what, but not under good circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry to hear that. As I remember, Fiji was a nuclear free zone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we were working on that in Bellingham, which is what was so special about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you told us a little bit about your work in the classroom. What did you do on your days off?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.693315716908128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I learned that when we were trying to go back for the Habitat for Humanity project because the Fijian woman volunteered to help us find old friends while we were there. She found out that Judy had died. Judy did come to the United States once. And I got to pick her up at the airport and take her for, let's see, a friend's national conference in Seattle. And it warmed my heart. I had been working on peace issues and non nuclear proliferation issues in Bellingham at the time. And I found out that Judy had been working on those projects in Fiji since I had seen her, which was very heartwarming. But she died of of, um, I'm not sure what, but not under good circumstances."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sorry to hear that. As I remember, Fiji was a nuclear free zone."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. And we were working on that in Bellingham, which is what was so special about that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Right. So you told us a little bit about your work in the classroom. What did you do on your days off?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "What did I do on days off? Well, often I went to market, which is kind of interesting because I go to a farmer's market here now. So you didn't like having to dicker over prices, but we often did for the fresh fruits and vegetables. And so that was usually a Saturday kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak in Hindustani?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.967056440627317, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What did I do on days off? Well, often I went to market, which is kind of interesting because I go to a farmer's market here now. So you didn't like having to dicker over prices, but we often did for the fresh fruits and vegetables. And so that was usually a Saturday kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you speak in Hindustani?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember. I probably try, but some of the vendors probably were Fijian too, so I wouldn't have been able to. Not much to say to them. I think I worked a lot on preparing lessons on the weekend as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was teaching like at least three different classes, if not five. So there was a lot to prepare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first job out of college?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.296729378474797, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I don't remember. I probably try, but some of the vendors probably were Fijian too, so I wouldn't have been able to. Not much to say to them. I think I worked a lot on preparing lessons on the weekend as well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was teaching like at least three different classes, if not five. So there was a lot to prepare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first job out of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any time to take a vacation and get away from Fiji? If so, where did you go?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.774143753860885, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because I was teaching like at least three different classes, if not five. So there was a lot to prepare."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And that was your first job out of college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any time to take a vacation and get away from Fiji? If so, where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there? No, no, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spent your vacation time there."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.082381948734316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "OK. Did you have any time to take a vacation and get away from Fiji? If so, where did you go?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "While I was there? No, no, I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you spent your vacation time there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Fiji and we at least the. Between our first and second year, we had some kind of a conference in Suva that everybody went to during that time off from teaching. So that was one highlight anyway of. Yeah, seeing everybody that we haven't hadn't seen for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think teaching in Fiji was similar to teaching in the U.S.?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.15108882559792, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In Fiji and we at least the. Between our first and second year, we had some kind of a conference in Suva that everybody went to during that time off from teaching. So that was one highlight anyway of. Yeah, seeing everybody that we haven't hadn't seen for months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So do you think teaching in Fiji was similar to teaching in the U.S.?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Well, not compared to today anyway, but maybe then I don't know enough about my father and mother were teachers and they did a lot of work at home. So I suppose in some ways it could have been. And and the friendships with students, which you had to be careful about. But which. Or, of course, the precious part of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure my dad was friends with his students, but it's hard it's too long ago to remember to be able to recall that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were grassroot ambassadors."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.945654250664354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh. Well, not compared to today anyway, but maybe then I don't know enough about my father and mother were teachers and they did a lot of work at home. So I suppose in some ways it could have been. And and the friendships with students, which you had to be careful about. But which. Or, of course, the precious part of being there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hmm. Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure my dad was friends with his students, but it's hard it's too long ago to remember to be able to recall that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were grassroot ambassadors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, something went through my mind that I can't remember just now. I'll have to come back to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one of the students that you got close with."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 15.495171389627062, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm sure my dad was friends with his students, but it's hard it's too long ago to remember to be able to recall that"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We were grassroot ambassadors."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, something went through my mind that I can't remember just now. I'll have to come back to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one of the students that you got close with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did get, Romijn and Ramallah were my favorites in the older group, and she brought me lunch every day, which was veggies with a roti. Yes, I was really spoiled with that. When I went back to Fiji for the Habitat project, I was able to find her and they had gotten married and they had actually had a child, which was very I knew was difficult from communicating early with them. And she made me roti and veggies again. So nice. That was very nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue to correspond with her after you left?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:71", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.105745988474514, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, something went through my mind that I can't remember just now. I'll have to come back to it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe one of the students that you got close with."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did get, Romijn and Ramallah were my favorites in the older group, and she brought me lunch every day, which was veggies with a roti. Yes, I was really spoiled with that. When I went back to Fiji for the Habitat project, I was able to find her and they had gotten married and they had actually had a child, which was very I knew was difficult from communicating early with them. And she made me roti and veggies again. So nice. That was very nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue to correspond with her after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. Not very much. We lost touch after a long time. And so I, I had gotten an email a couple of times from Romijn and he certainly probably has a bigger lifestyle than we have these days. He's a business person now. And so I had tried to Google and see if I could find him when we went back and I wrote a letter to the address of his business and didn't get any answers. So I didn't know how to deal with that. Well, while we were in Fiji doing the Habitat project, he got the letter that I had written and called Habitat in Suva and said, you know, we're here, we want to see you. So it worked out in the end, although I didn't see that was that was very gratifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were building homes for Habitat?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 17.895273320527238, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I did get, Romijn and Ramallah were my favorites in the older group, and she brought me lunch every day, which was veggies with a roti. Yes, I was really spoiled with that. When I went back to Fiji for the Habitat project, I was able to find her and they had gotten married and they had actually had a child, which was very I knew was difficult from communicating early with them. And she made me roti and veggies again. So nice. That was very nice. Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And did you continue to correspond with her after you left?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A little bit. Not very much. We lost touch after a long time. And so I, I had gotten an email a couple of times from Romijn and he certainly probably has a bigger lifestyle than we have these days. He's a business person now. And so I had tried to Google and see if I could find him when we went back and I wrote a letter to the address of his business and didn't get any answers. So I didn't know how to deal with that. Well, while we were in Fiji doing the Habitat project, he got the letter that I had written and called Habitat in Suva and said, you know, we're here, we want to see you. So it worked out in the end, although I didn't see that was that was very gratifying."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were building homes for Habitat?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were supposed to be it didn't quite work that way, but we got close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. So looking back at your tour service, what were your main accomplishments, would you say?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.62379422287313, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we were supposed to be it didn't quite work that way, but we got close."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, that's good. So looking back at your tour service, what were your main accomplishments, would you say?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for me personally, and this is something I've thought about often on quite a bit, it was not a U.S. accomplishment, it was a personal accomplishment. I think the United States wanted to send people overseas to influence other countries to say that we're good people in spite of the Vietnamese war or whatever and. For me to rah rah rah the United States, well, for me, I didn't. That was not the result. The result was I felt like an international citizen after being in Fiji, I no longer felt like a United States citizen, I felt like I was a person of the world and appreciated the world and the different people and cultures that were there. And I don't know whether that was the U.S. goal, but that's what happened to me. I was not, I did not come home rah rahing the United States. I came home grateful for the people who had given me so much while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, in fact, I think that is one of the goals is to bring back an understanding of people of other cultures. So here you are telling me all about Fiji in the early days, because even in my time, we didn't have TV. No telephones were very limited. Roads were all gravel electricity in the towns."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in the villages, and certainly no air conditioning."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.804215803192367, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, for me personally, and this is something I've thought about often on quite a bit, it was not a U.S. accomplishment, it was a personal accomplishment. I think the United States wanted to send people overseas to influence other countries to say that we're good people in spite of the Vietnamese war or whatever and. For me to rah rah rah the United States, well, for me, I didn't. That was not the result. The result was I felt like an international citizen after being in Fiji, I no longer felt like a United States citizen, I felt like I was a person of the world and appreciated the world and the different people and cultures that were there. And I don't know whether that was the U.S. goal, but that's what happened to me. I was not, I did not come home rah rahing the United States. I came home grateful for the people who had given me so much while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, well, in fact, I think that is one of the goals is to bring back an understanding of people of other cultures. So here you are telling me all about Fiji in the early days, because even in my time, we didn't have TV. No telephones were very limited. Roads were all gravel electricity in the towns."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in the villages, and certainly no air conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I can remember that is a little fun memory with my roommate. The first year that it was so hot and muggy, we came home from school and it was just hanging heavy and it eventually rained and we went out in the little compound where we lived and danced in the rain because it was so glad it rained and we were so hot and and our mommy just laughed at us dancing in the rain outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. Well, you mentioned the goals of the Peace Corps. So the first is to provide technical assistance when requested, which you did as a teacher."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.226906447991517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But not in the villages."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Not in the villages, and certainly no air conditioning."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I can remember that is a little fun memory with my roommate. The first year that it was so hot and muggy, we came home from school and it was just hanging heavy and it eventually rained and we went out in the little compound where we lived and danced in the rain because it was so glad it rained and we were so hot and and our mommy just laughed at us dancing in the rain outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. Well, you mentioned the goals of the Peace Corps. So the first is to provide technical assistance when requested, which you did as a teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think they send teachers anymore. I think I have read that they feel like their training and their teachers are adequate now that they want other help, but not teaching help. Oh, yes, I understand. I don't know whether that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, my wife was also a biology botany teacher there in Fiji. That's where we met. And then we got married later. Was that common? Did many of the couples develop relationships either with other Americans or with the Fijians?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.807673831101685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Well, I can remember that is a little fun memory with my roommate. The first year that it was so hot and muggy, we came home from school and it was just hanging heavy and it eventually rained and we went out in the little compound where we lived and danced in the rain because it was so glad it rained and we were so hot and and our mommy just laughed at us dancing in the rain outside."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice. Well, you mentioned the goals of the Peace Corps. So the first is to provide technical assistance when requested, which you did as a teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think they send teachers anymore. I think I have read that they feel like their training and their teachers are adequate now that they want other help, but not teaching help. Oh, yes, I understand. I don't know whether that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, my wife was also a biology botany teacher there in Fiji. That's where we met. And then we got married later. Was that common? Did many of the couples develop relationships either with other Americans or with the Fijians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know whether common is the right word, but it did happen. I mean, we had a big group where there were still over 100 people when we went. And so we had I know that one couple in this picture, I'm getting too close to the microphone, got married. They were both in Ba, not Ba, one of the islands to the south. They were on separate ends of the island and they eventually married and are still together. And several several couples went already married. And there are I believe there were a few that married people from Fiji, but I don't remember now who or how many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, well, the national language is English. So, you know, we should have that common denominator. But any regrets or failures, if I might ask?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 28.675193145668537, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I don't think they send teachers anymore. I think I have read that they feel like their training and their teachers are adequate now that they want other help, but not teaching help. Oh, yes, I understand. I don't know whether that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, my wife was also a biology botany teacher there in Fiji. That's where we met. And then we got married later. Was that common? Did many of the couples develop relationships either with other Americans or with the Fijians?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know whether common is the right word, but it did happen. I mean, we had a big group where there were still over 100 people when we went. And so we had I know that one couple in this picture, I'm getting too close to the microphone, got married. They were both in Ba, not Ba, one of the islands to the south. They were on separate ends of the island and they eventually married and are still together. And several several couples went already married. And there are I believe there were a few that married people from Fiji, but I don't remember now who or how many."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So, yeah, well, the national language is English. So, you know, we should have that common denominator. But any regrets or failures, if I might ask?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Huh. I think mostly gratitude."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. That's wonderful, yeah, because it is mostly people, the people and obviously you promoted a better understanding of what Americans are, even though it wasn't necessarily intentionally to be a diplomat. But so throughout the years, have you had other involvements you mentioned to Habitat for Humanity, you mentioned staying in touch with a few people or any other kind of activities?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 21.864339499571003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of the Peace Corps itself. I think so. It was a few years ago. And so there were three, one, two, three, four, six of us from Fiji II that went, which we were the best representative of all the groups who went. And I was very grateful for that, somebody I know, remember his name now organized it and it took a long time to organize people from different Fiji groups going and all the stuff that had to be prepared in order to work with Habitat for Humanity. But I wanted to go back to Fiji and I did not want to go alone. So it was a really wonderful experience and I probably couldn't do it physically now. So I'm really grateful we did it when we did it. And I got to see the friends that I remembered so screwed up."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So we kind of jumped over when you left Fiji and came back to the States. First of all, how did you feel about leaving?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, golly. I remember not wanting to come home that. I felt like my values had changed so much that. I didn't know how to fit in at home and culture shock. Yeah, a lot of culture shock. I arrived in Baltimore's airport. I mean, I spent a few days in Hawaii with a friend who was in Fiji, but not a Peace Corps person. And she and I tried to use that time to get used to the U.S. again a little. And then I flew into Baltimore right before Christmas and where I was wearing sandals and a cotton dress and really dreading, in a sense, seeing my family who loved me dearly, who wrote to me every week, who, you know, kept me there. There was no phone calling, nothing like that. So a letter a week from your family was very precious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you afraid of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't afraid. I just, I didn't really want to deal with where the United States was, versus where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anticipation of."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 15.404821666190001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, golly. I remember not wanting to come home that. I felt like my values had changed so much that. I didn't know how to fit in at home and culture shock. Yeah, a lot of culture shock. I arrived in Baltimore's airport. I mean, I spent a few days in Hawaii with a friend who was in Fiji, but not a Peace Corps person. And she and I tried to use that time to get used to the U.S. again a little. And then I flew into Baltimore right before Christmas and where I was wearing sandals and a cotton dress and really dreading, in a sense, seeing my family who loved me dearly, who wrote to me every week, who, you know, kept me there. There was no phone calling, nothing like that. So a letter a week from your family was very precious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were you afraid of?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't afraid. I just, I didn't really want to deal with where the United States was, versus where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anticipation of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I, I had some months at home and I had I knew from college days that I wanted to work for the National Park Service. So while I was in Hawaii and training, I was able to take the test that was required back in 1969, ’68, to get into federal service. And so I had taken that test and done well enough that I was lucky to get into the Park Service. They were looking for women. I had worked with the Peace Corps. So I got into the National Park Service training program. Oh, let's see, about four months after I got home, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, I met your husband, Alan. I want to tell us a little bit about how you met him."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 8.227579629100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wasn't afraid. I just, I didn't really want to deal with where the United States was, versus where I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Anticipation of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. So I, I had some months at home and I had I knew from college days that I wanted to work for the National Park Service. So while I was in Hawaii and training, I was able to take the test that was required back in 1969, ’68, to get into federal service. And so I had taken that test and done well enough that I was lucky to get into the Park Service. They were looking for women. I had worked with the Peace Corps. So I got into the National Park Service training program. Oh, let's see, about four months after I got home, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ok, well, I met your husband, Alan. I want to tell us a little bit about how you met him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, that was years later. He remembers that I was working for the Park Service. This would have been ‘73 and he was working as a seasonal. And I did some environmental and interpretive training for I was working in a regional office and he was working at North Cascades National Park. So he remembers meeting me when I was training summer employees. And I remember him from graduate school in 1980 when we were both at Western Washington University. And he was I had already been there a year and I was just starting grad school, having worked for the Park Service for nearly ten years. So I had to quit the Park Service to go to grad school. And I was very lucky afterwards to be able to get back in after some non park service work that I really didn't want to do very much. So I lucked out and got back into the Park Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I asked Alan, do you have any particular habits that he doesn't understand that might have come from Fiji, like sitting on the floor drinking out of bowls?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:101", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.21923411, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, well, that was years later. He remembers that I was working for the Park Service. This would have been ‘73 and he was working as a seasonal. And I did some environmental and interpretive training for I was working in a regional office and he was working at North Cascades National Park. So he remembers meeting me when I was training summer employees. And I remember him from graduate school in 1980 when we were both at Western Washington University. And he was I had already been there a year and I was just starting grad school, having worked for the Park Service for nearly ten years. So I had to quit the Park Service to go to grad school. And I was very lucky afterwards to be able to get back in after some non park service work that I really didn't want to do very much. So I lucked out and got back into the Park Service."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I asked Alan, do you have any particular habits that he doesn't understand that might have come from Fiji, like sitting on the floor drinking out of bowls?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't sit on the floor and drink out of bowls, although I, I well, I don't even know whether I could sit on the floor very much. I drink a lot of tea and I'm pretty convinced that that started in Fiji because we had tea mid-morning and mid-afternoon every day that are some of our older students would make tea for us and some of them could do it wonderfully and others got chided because they didn't do so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah, it was part of the British Commonwealth at that time. It was it's now an independent republic."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became independent while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did I recall what that was like?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.208931, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It became independent while I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did I recall what that was like?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do. It was a very exciting time. And I'm sorry for the troubles that have come since. But at the time it was, Nadi had some very big celebrations and I went to some of the cultural dances and other things that they were doing to celebrate both the Fijian culture and the Indian culture. It was a very exciting time in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm and I yeah, I'm sorry that things are not as good now as they were then, but at that time it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps also has people that are retired. Would you ever consider going back?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.67659, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I do. It was a very exciting time. And I'm sorry for the troubles that have come since. But at the time it was, Nadi had some very big celebrations and I went to some of the cultural dances and other things that they were doing to celebrate both the Fijian culture and the Indian culture. It was a very exciting time in Fiji."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm and I yeah, I'm sorry that things are not as good now as they were then, but at that time it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps also has people that are retired. Would you ever consider going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I might have 10 years ago, but not now. My body doesn't doesn't work as well as it used to work so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for anybody else that's interested in joining the Peace Corps?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.0851, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So I'm and I yeah, I'm sorry that things are not as good now as they were then, but at that time it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So Peace Corps also has people that are retired. Would you ever consider going back?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I might have 10 years ago, but not now. My body doesn't doesn't work as well as it used to work so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for anybody else that's interested in joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I have very dear friends that live out in Joyce and their granddaughters had heard about the Peace Corps and they had me talk with her. So I I told her that I didn't think I could tell her very much now because things in our whole world have changed so much. The fact that you can call all the way around the world on a little handheld phone is so different from the experience that I had. And I didn't live in a village where and I don't know now whether Peace Corps volunteers in Fiji anyway live in villages or whether. They are all in the cities. I was a city person, so I didn't have, in a sense, the full experience. I did go to one Fijian wedding in the mountains and that was quite exciting. But for the most part, I was in a city. But I now treasure the experience of being really immersed in the culture there, and I fear that Peace Corps people now would have to work at that, that they might. Because we have so many gadgets now that keep us, what's the word, tied to our culture? It is harder to go native, or experience a culture that is different from ours, or we are so dependent on our gadgets now that it would be harder. It was easier then I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm sure TV has transformed them into something else. So I think we're very lucky to go when we did."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.539, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I might have 10 years ago, but not now. My body doesn't doesn't work as well as it used to work so well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What advice would you have for anybody else that's interested in joining the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, I have very dear friends that live out in Joyce and their granddaughters had heard about the Peace Corps and they had me talk with her. So I I told her that I didn't think I could tell her very much now because things in our whole world have changed so much. The fact that you can call all the way around the world on a little handheld phone is so different from the experience that I had. And I didn't live in a village where and I don't know now whether Peace Corps volunteers in Fiji anyway live in villages or whether. They are all in the cities. I was a city person, so I didn't have, in a sense, the full experience. I did go to one Fijian wedding in the mountains and that was quite exciting. But for the most part, I was in a city. But I now treasure the experience of being really immersed in the culture there, and I fear that Peace Corps people now would have to work at that, that they might. Because we have so many gadgets now that keep us, what's the word, tied to our culture? It is harder to go native, or experience a culture that is different from ours, or we are so dependent on our gadgets now that it would be harder. It was easier then I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. And I'm sure TV has transformed them into something else. So I think we're very lucky to go when we did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am too. I'm very sure we're lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Pat, it's been delightful talking to you. Any final thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I am too. I'm very sure we're lucky."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well Pat, it's been delightful talking to you. Any final thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no. I think the influences for me were realizing how much I got out of the Peace Corps experience, no matter whether the government wanted other people to benefit from the Americans being there. For me, it was not that. It was how much benefit I got. And I think something that influenced my life tremendously in retrospect is that while I was there, a person from Fiji I, whom I didn't know or before I was there, he went to Fiji and was drafted and forced to go to Vietnam and was killed. And of course, that was a Fiji I person. But Fiji II heard about that. And I met his parents who came to Fiji to find out why he had loved Fiji so much. That has had an enormous impression on me all of my life to work for nonproliferation of weapons, of non-nuclear stuff, of being anti-war, because I felt like his life could have done so much more if he had stayed in Fiji and not gone and been killed in Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry to hear that. So why do you think he loved Fiji so much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the people, I mean, it makes me cry to think about it. The people were very loving then. They welcomed us. They forgave our foolishness of mistakes, you know, was a one-on-one or a community event. That was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I have to agree with you. Well, I think we've come to the end. Thank you, Pat. It's been very nice talking with you. We'll look forward to seeing this posted on the Kennedy Library."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00133:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Um, no. I think the influences for me were realizing how much I got out of the Peace Corps experience, no matter whether the government wanted other people to benefit from the Americans being there. For me, it was not that. It was how much benefit I got. And I think something that influenced my life tremendously in retrospect is that while I was there, a person from Fiji I, whom I didn't know or before I was there, he went to Fiji and was drafted and forced to go to Vietnam and was killed. And of course, that was a Fiji I person. But Fiji II heard about that. And I met his parents who came to Fiji to find out why he had loved Fiji so much. That has had an enormous impression on me all of my life to work for nonproliferation of weapons, of non-nuclear stuff, of being anti-war, because I felt like his life could have done so much more if he had stayed in Fiji and not gone and been killed in Vietnam."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sorry to hear that. So why do you think he loved Fiji so much?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the people, I mean, it makes me cry to think about it. The people were very loving then. They welcomed us. They forgave our foolishness of mistakes, you know, was a one-on-one or a community event. That was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. I have to agree with you. Well, I think we've come to the end. Thank you, Pat. It's been very nice talking with you. We'll look forward to seeing this posted on the Kennedy Library."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you very much, Jack."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Ni sa bula. Namaste."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 76.2994638990044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. You're welcome."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we know you just returned, not just a few weeks ago, from a flight. Would you like to begin by telling us how you feel, and what your experiences have been since you've been home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think everyone thinks that the job of an astronaut is rather glamorous, and I'm always amazed that when we come back from a flight, where you've spent many, many months preparing and you've been very, very busy in space, usually with the help of lots of people on the ground, and the mission is a great success, then you come back and you very quickly get wrapped up in the mundane things of life, and so I think that's where all of us in the [STS] 91 crew are now, is we're back to the mundane aspect of life, dealing with the snail mail and the E-mail.\\n\\n You have to fight hard to remember and preserve the memories of the flight. It's amazing just how quickly you're forced to almost leave that behind and move on to other things, and before you know it, it feels like it was long ago that you actually did the flight. It already feels like it was months ago that we actually docked with Mir for the last time and said goodbye to the cosmonauts on board and closed the hatch for the final time of the Phase One Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the time seem to go quickly while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always goes very quickly on orbit, unfortunately. That's the philosophy of a short-duration mission, is to maximize every moment while you're up there. With a long-duration mission, you know that you have time and you don't have to work as furiously to get everything done. During our ten days, we were very, very busy, I think at times to the detriment of being able just to enjoy each other's company, to go over and spend some time in the Mir base block and get a chance to talk with your Russian counterparts. Certainly it's difficult to grab a couple of minutes just to look out the window. You have to fight to protect that time, also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have specific duties when you're on these flights."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 84.77718211000489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think everyone thinks that the job of an astronaut is rather glamorous, and I'm always amazed that when we come back from a flight, where you've spent many, many months preparing and you've been very, very busy in space, usually with the help of lots of people on the ground, and the mission is a great success, then you come back and you very quickly get wrapped up in the mundane things of life, and so I think that's where all of us in the [STS] 91 crew are now, is we're back to the mundane aspect of life, dealing with the snail mail and the E-mail.\\n\\n You have to fight hard to remember and preserve the memories of the flight. It's amazing just how quickly you're forced to almost leave that behind and move on to other things, and before you know it, it feels like it was long ago that you actually did the flight. It already feels like it was months ago that we actually docked with Mir for the last time and said goodbye to the cosmonauts on board and closed the hatch for the final time of the Phase One Program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did the time seem to go quickly while you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always goes very quickly on orbit, unfortunately. That's the philosophy of a short-duration mission, is to maximize every moment while you're up there. With a long-duration mission, you know that you have time and you don't have to work as furiously to get everything done. During our ten days, we were very, very busy, I think at times to the detriment of being able just to enjoy each other's company, to go over and spend some time in the Mir base block and get a chance to talk with your Russian counterparts. Certainly it's difficult to grab a couple of minutes just to look out the window. You have to fight to protect that time, also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have specific duties when you're on these flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And have they differed from this last time or the time before, when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 44, "return_to_go": 85.30798012222765, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It always goes very quickly on orbit, unfortunately. That's the philosophy of a short-duration mission, is to maximize every moment while you're up there. With a long-duration mission, you know that you have time and you don't have to work as furiously to get everything done. During our ten days, we were very, very busy, I think at times to the detriment of being able just to enjoy each other's company, to go over and spend some time in the Mir base block and get a chance to talk with your Russian counterparts. Certainly it's difficult to grab a couple of minutes just to look out the window. You have to fight to protect that time, also."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You have specific duties when you're on these flights."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And have they differed from this last time or the time before, when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the time before was a unique situation, because I was originally on the STS-86 crew as simply a mission specialist who was going up to Mir, and not to return on that flight. I got replaced about six weeks prior to launch, so my roles changed as well, when I was no longer the long-duration crew member.\\n\\n So, on 86, because I got added to that crew so late, there weren't a lot of responsibilities that I could be given and have time to train for, so my focus on that flight was to get the U.S. laboratory set up for Dave Wolf, who was going to be the NASA-6 crew member. On 91, I was a member of the crew from the onset, so certainly my roles on that flight, there were more of them and the responsibilities were greater. On 91, I served as the flight engineer during ascent entry, and then while we were docked, I was in charge of all the transfers, so you can imagine during the dock time frame, I was very busy making sure that we got our 6,000 pounds of logistics transferred between the two vehicles."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This is, of course, how you ended your time with Phase One, but you began your time with Phase One back when?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 30.79096057366146, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the NASA office kind of became the--we had a handful of Americans over there, and the Russians that we had hired, the three secretaries and interpreters in the office, all spoke English extremely well, so you tended to speak English over at the office, usually because by the end of the day, you were tired of having to do everything in another language.\\n\\n So typically, from about nine to six, Monday through Friday, you operated in a Russian world and you listened to Russian all day long and you spoke in Russian, and it was really nice at the end of the day to stop by the office and switch back to your native language, because your brain was just tired, it was wrung out at that point."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Have you ever encountered anything like this before?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had learned Spanish in high school. Growing up in Southern California, that was the logical thing to do, but Spanish is an easier language to learn. Being a romance language, I think it's more akin to the language we speak. Russian is a Slavic language, derived from that, and it's a different alphabet, a different way of handling grammar and conjugation and it's a harder language to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, too, you became part of that culture, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes and no. I think even though we lived over there, you don't necessarily--it's like people who come to the United States, you live in the United States, but you don't necessarily lose the culture that you've come from. If we had stayed there longer, I think we would have been more immersed in the Russian culture, but, truthfully, probably the longest period I spent there continuously was four months, and then you would have trips back to the U.S. for training, that would be about a month long. So I think it's a little bit more difficult to get immersed in a culture when you're not in a country for a long period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a chance to see the country for the country, and not as a training ground?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 25.323289526290512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had learned Spanish in high school. Growing up in Southern California, that was the logical thing to do, but Spanish is an easier language to learn. Being a romance language, I think it's more akin to the language we speak. Russian is a Slavic language, derived from that, and it's a different alphabet, a different way of handling grammar and conjugation and it's a harder language to learn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And of course, too, you became part of that culture, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yes and no. I think even though we lived over there, you don't necessarily--it's like people who come to the United States, you live in the United States, but you don't necessarily lose the culture that you've come from. If we had stayed there longer, I think we would have been more immersed in the Russian culture, but, truthfully, probably the longest period I spent there continuously was four months, and then you would have trips back to the U.S. for training, that would be about a month long. So I think it's a little bit more difficult to get immersed in a culture when you're not in a country for a long period of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have a chance to see the country for the country, and not as a training ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made, let's see, probably two trips, really, outside of the Moscow region. One was to Tiksi, up about seventy-two degrees latitude in the Arctic Circle, about 6,000 kilometers from Moscow, and the other one was down to the Black Sea, to Djubka, Russia, but that was really the extent of it. I would have loved to have traveled more, but when I was DOR, that was just out of the question. There was absolutely no time to do that, and then when I was training, I felt like I really needed to study on the weekends, so I didn't even have a chance to make it up to St. Petersburg, unfortunately."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Planning a trip back soon? Is there anything else over there for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.66, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. [Laughter] If the training flow doesn't kill you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We thank you. We appreciate taking your time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I think Charlie Precourt says he's on his way over here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was already giving an interview when I left to come over here, so he's probably, he's in the groove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's in the mood."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.4, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. I think Charlie Precourt says he's on his way over here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was already giving an interview when I left to come over here, so he's probably, he's in the groove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's in the mood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's in the mood. Actually, I just gave one earlier today, too, but it was little bit shorter, and we talked about some other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be the day to interview, then."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 6.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was already giving an interview when I left to come over here, so he's probably, he's in the groove."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He's in the mood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's in the mood. Actually, I just gave one earlier today, too, but it was little bit shorter, and we talked about some other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be the day to interview, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think so. And Alicia said, \"How about Tuesday, right after your other one? We'll just do it on Tuesday.\" \"Okay. Whatever works.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck. We hope that the missions will be many for you, and you can go visit the ISS, and then you can compare it to the--"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00785:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's in the mood. Actually, I just gave one earlier today, too, but it was little bit shorter, and we talked about some other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Must be the day to interview, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, well, I think so. And Alicia said, \"How about Tuesday, right after your other one? We'll just do it on Tuesday.\" \"Okay. Whatever works.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we wish you luck. We hope that the missions will be many for you, and you can go visit the ISS, and then you can compare it to the--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, boy, we've got to get it built first. Charlie [Precourt] will probably talk about that some more, but that's one of the things that we've been saying in our debrief, is we've done it really well, we've learned a lot over Phase One. From the early days, he can compare it from '71 to '91, the first few flights, we were still learning how to do this logistics transfer, and we got really good at the end of the process, but we had the benefit of dealing with a mature station, and now we have to go and do it with a station that we're trying to assemble, so we've got to get a little bit better in how we do this to make sure we can pull it off. So that's what we've been talking about to the folks, is how we can better accomplish this mission and gain some efficiency. It's the reason why we're going over to Building Nine on Thursday, to show people what our mid-deck looked like, to try and figure out how to do this a little bit better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Good luck with it all."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 45.419434241870825, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a good overview, though, good introduction. Going back to Mercury, you had mentioned that you were involved in training during those last missions. Did you work on console for any of those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the last mission—the group was very small in those days. In fact, I often tell people it was so small that everybody who worked in the control center for the mission would be invited to Chris Kraft's house for the party afterward. Now imagine if he tried that now. [Laughter] He'd need to rent a football stadium or something. But the first mission we didn't actually have any operational position during the mission, but I always complained about that because the sim [simulation] guys learned so much about the systems that they were in awfully good position to contribute during the mission. So for the last mission, I shared the console with Arnie Aldrich on the systems console for the Mercury systems, and I worked on that and I loved it. It was great. That was a wonderful time.\\n\\n I was back at the Cape for the integration of the experiments into the Spacelab and then the Spacelab into the Orbiter for the Shuttle 9 mission, which is that launch up there. Every day I would drive out to the NASA offices there and I would see this old sign that said the old Mercury control center was down there. One day I just went down there to look at it. I said, \"I'll be late,\" but I went down there and looked, and I was shocked to see it's just a little tiny building all boarded up. Nobody's done anything. There ought to be a shrine of some sort. It was really a very important place. I hope somebody does something one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I've heard some talk about it, so hopefully someone will be able to make some progress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A historical site. Absolutely. Of course, the Mercury control center was quite a bit different than what ended up in Houston."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 50.46603804652314, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "For the last mission—the group was very small in those days. In fact, I often tell people it was so small that everybody who worked in the control center for the mission would be invited to Chris Kraft's house for the party afterward. Now imagine if he tried that now. [Laughter] He'd need to rent a football stadium or something. But the first mission we didn't actually have any operational position during the mission, but I always complained about that because the sim [simulation] guys learned so much about the systems that they were in awfully good position to contribute during the mission. So for the last mission, I shared the console with Arnie Aldrich on the systems console for the Mercury systems, and I worked on that and I loved it. It was great. That was a wonderful time.\\n\\n I was back at the Cape for the integration of the experiments into the Spacelab and then the Spacelab into the Orbiter for the Shuttle 9 mission, which is that launch up there. Every day I would drive out to the NASA offices there and I would see this old sign that said the old Mercury control center was down there. One day I just went down there to look at it. I said, \"I'll be late,\" but I went down there and looked, and I was shocked to see it's just a little tiny building all boarded up. Nobody's done anything. There ought to be a shrine of some sort. It was really a very important place. I hope somebody does something one day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know I've heard some talk about it, so hopefully someone will be able to make some progress."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A historical site. Absolutely. Of course, the Mercury control center was quite a bit different than what ended up in Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the construction and the organization of the new one?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 49.40670894058126, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I wish they would."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A historical site. Absolutely. Of course, the Mercury control center was quite a bit different than what ended up in Houston."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the construction and the organization of the new one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, one of the first assignments I had when I got to Johnson Space Center, there was a Source Evaluation Board for the control center design, and I was on the operations panel. They put us in an old hotel downtown. We were like a sequestered jury or something. You weren't allowed out at night to talk to people. But we stayed in this hotel for a week or so, and it was there I met, really got to know Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom, and I discovered that he graduated from Purdue one year ahead of me. I didn't know him there, though. We didn't know that. Yes, I was involved in that, too. Then all through the development and testing of it, always the requirements, operational requirements side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you determine what those requirements would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 44.89634326731251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any involvement with the construction and the organization of the new one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Actually, one of the first assignments I had when I got to Johnson Space Center, there was a Source Evaluation Board for the control center design, and I was on the operations panel. They put us in an old hotel downtown. We were like a sequestered jury or something. You weren't allowed out at night to talk to people. But we stayed in this hotel for a week or so, and it was there I met, really got to know Gus [Virgil I.] Grissom, and I discovered that he graduated from Purdue one year ahead of me. I didn't know him there, though. We didn't know that. Yes, I was involved in that, too. Then all through the development and testing of it, always the requirements, operational requirements side of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you determine what those requirements would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, just from operating in control centers, I'd done it so much. I'd worked in the control center at Vandenberg Air Force Base and that evolved, too. Incidentally, there we had a contract with Philco [Corporation], it was in those days Philco, which became Ford Aerospace later on, and they did a lot of the flight control work, too. When I got in my Agena section there and I needed to recruit people, I went back to that old network, that old range, and stole away a lot of those people that came to work. Some of them came as Ford Aerospace, some Ford wouldn't release, so we just hired them as NASA people, but they came there, too, guys like Jim [James E.] Saultz and Harry Smith and Hershel [R.] Perkins and Bob [Robert D.] Legler and all these guys. They were from that old group."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Nice that you had that connection to be able to pull from."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 68.71639361769464, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He worked for me. Wow, what a gold mine he was. Guys like him, he was ready in four or five, six months, ready to fly solo on the console. So it varied. Some guys took longer, some guys were faster, but you really were happy when you got a John Aaron in or somebody like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Understandably."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a super guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting to talk with. In fact, he's just retiring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did he? He is retiring now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think actually this month, in March."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 73.01821513077182, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a super guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting to talk with. In fact, he's just retiring."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did he? He is retiring now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think actually this month, in March."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll be darn. Last time I saw him was over at ESRTC [Eurpoean Space Research and Technological Center] in the Netherlands. It was at some meeting, and I saw him in the meeting room. I went in there, broke up the meeting a little bit—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure everybody understood."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 81.13135014530202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did he? He is retiring now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think actually this month, in March."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll be darn. Last time I saw him was over at ESRTC [Eurpoean Space Research and Technological Center] in the Netherlands. It was at some meeting, and I saw him in the meeting room. I went in there, broke up the meeting a little bit—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure everybody understood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, they didn't mind."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During the missions, what were your specific—you mentioned training the controllers and making sure they were ready, but what did you do during the missions?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 57.8223173321253, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It did. It really performed well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In fact, on Gemini X, I believe it was, they actually ended up rendezvousing with two of the Agenas, theirs and the one from VIII."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was always an objective of the project, was to dock with one and then use it as a propulsion unit to go and rendezvous with another one, perhaps not so much—most of the important objectives were those things that needed to be done for Apollo right away, but also they had a lot of them that were for future programs like Space Station assembly missions and stuff like that, where they were looking at docking with a fuel tank and orbit with thrusters on it that could be used as a tug, space tug. And also the first orbit direct rendezvous was a requirement from Apollo because of the liftoff of the lunar module, and come up and rendezvous and dock with the command module on the first pass. It was no sweat; it was easy to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the other experiments with the Agena was the tether."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What was the objective for that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 52.10052793447517, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "What happened, actually, somewhere along the line, of course, in Skylab the experiments were going to be a very big part of what you did. I mean, that's the name of the game in Skylab. We had these little experiment sections in each of the system branches, so what they did is they formed a new branch and called it experiment systems branch. I drew the short straw on that, I guess. I kind of was always Kranz's troubleshooter or put-out-the-fire guy or something like that, so I got the job of pulling that together and we had a lot of the Skylab systems and stuff in there, too. We started working that as Apollo was coming to an end.\\n\\n Then you mentioned in there something about after I left that branch. I didn't quite understand what you said. I think you're a little mixed up from the orbit chart. You said when I left the experiments division. Well, it was experiments branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I went to the payloads systems section. Well, what happened is when we formed this new payloads experiments branch, or whatever it was called, we didn't have a chief for that section yet, so I was both the section head and the branch head for a while there. I was acting. Then later on we put Ted [A.] White in as the system integration branch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Then shortly after that, this is when Kranz reorganized and I became the assistant chief for systems. I had all the systems branches and Roach had all the operations planning branches and stuff. And it stayed that way through the rest of Apollo and until I left."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking at the experiments for Apollo, then, you had mentioned earlier that you didn't concern with the science side of it, but more with the operational side and how it would work and what was going on with that. What were some of the key factors in—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 45.72554173826423, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did, and it taught them teamwork and they enjoyed it, too. They came to realize what we were doing for them, carrying their battles forward into the operations world and getting astronauts scheduled and all this kind of stuff, and at the same time how we were relying on them to give us the right inputs. It made for a good team, good team."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Always important."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was quite an adventure, by the way, to come back for that mission, because I worked on that mission for eight years and I'd been away from JSC since 1975. We came back and ran that mission in 1983, I believe, late '83. I was back in the control center now as a payload guy, as a European, and Gerry [Gerald D.] Griffin, who used to work for me one time, he was now center director, and he'd come around every day and see me. And [Charles R.] \"Skinny\" Lewis was the flight director. I'd go and see him every day and talk to him. Of course, everybody knew I was there and they'd all come back in the science room to see me.\\n\\n On the last day of the mission, I had to talk on the air-to-ground loop because the people who were doing that, to go to the landing site, and, of course, they put it on the PA system so everybody in the control center heard me talking on the air-to-ground loop, and they all went nuts. \"Brooks, we've been here twenty years and we never got to talk on that air-to-ground loop. You come back as a visitor and you get to talk on there.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had put in your years back previously."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting to see some of the changes around the center."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 53.98215029415338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been interesting to see some of the changes around the center."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. Every time I would go off shift, I'd go by the FOMA and see what they were doing, what problems they were chasing, and we even helped them once. They had some funny vibrations or sounds in the tunnel between the Orbiter and the Spacelab, and I heard them discussing it. In our material science doubles rack, we had a very sensitive vibration monitor, so we offered to give them some data from that thing if maybe they could help, when it happened, tell us what times they occurred and we'd give them the data. So we even cooperated with them. But it was fun.\\n\\n One thing I noticed is that those guys were very blasé about this. For me, that mission was a gigantic emotional experience because I had been preparing for it so long. But those guys, they were flying missions every month. It was just one more mission, routine, next one comes next month, you know. It was hard to get used to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very different from the early days you'd been involved with.\\n\\n We'll go ahead and take a brief break here, change out our tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "...Apollo and a couple of the missions just in general. Apollo 8 was slightly different than had been originally planned, and many people have said that it was quite a challenge because they were going to go around the Moon, just the command module, and in just a few months after Apollo 7 had proved out that the spacecraft was sound. Did you have any thoughts on the Apollo 8 at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 73.7115535652391, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On 13 it skyrocketed Mr. Kranz to fame, didn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "To get Ed Harris to play him. You know, the most amazing thing about that to me, though, was when I talked with Kranz about that, I said, \"Harris must have spent a lot of time with you to capture all of your mannerisms and stuff.\" And he said, \"I never met the guy. I never saw him.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Really."}, {"role": "user", "content": "\"He never came to see me.\" That's incredible to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is incredible."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.086549272452666, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They're beautiful, these things. They're beautiful. They're up to the latest requirements based from the Space Station flight ops datafile requirements specs. We only deviated a little bit where we had to. But I'll tell you, I found a guy with a mind like a sponge to pick this up. We made all these mechanical drawings and stuff, too. It was incredible what we did. And, you know, I think probably NASA's got a team of 100 people working on their ops manual, and we did this with like three or four people. Three or four people and in a year. My God, it's amazing. It's really good what we did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I look back on the two years I spent there as a real gift. What a break, to have a chance to do that. My gosh, that was something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You essentially came full circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, it was sad to leave. I had to leave. I just didn't want to—I still am not ready. I told Kranz, \"I don't know how you can give up.\" I told both Kranz and Hannigan—this guy who just called me has a budget for some consulting work, and I told Kranz about it. I said, \"You can pick up some extra bucks, get a tour to Europe, go over and study some documents back here, go over there and present the results, sit in on a couple of their meetings.\" \"No,\" he said, \"I'm out of the business. Don't want to do it anymore.\" But I don't understand how they can walk away from it. Of course, he's got this now [referring to Kranz' book Failure is Not an Option]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he's been reliving it in a way."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 16.762832524947406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I look back on the two years I spent there as a real gift. What a break, to have a chance to do that. My gosh, that was something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You essentially came full circle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, it was sad to leave. I had to leave. I just didn't want to—I still am not ready. I told Kranz, \"I don't know how you can give up.\" I told both Kranz and Hannigan—this guy who just called me has a budget for some consulting work, and I told Kranz about it. I said, \"You can pick up some extra bucks, get a tour to Europe, go over and study some documents back here, go over there and present the results, sit in on a couple of their meetings.\" \"No,\" he said, \"I'm out of the business. Don't want to do it anymore.\" But I don't understand how they can walk away from it. Of course, he's got this now [referring to Kranz' book Failure is Not an Option]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he's been reliving it in a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. I'm really looking forward to that. I can't thank you enough for that, and Kranz, too. I'll send him an email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could courier it here for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.514258361052676, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. In fact, it was sad to leave. I had to leave. I just didn't want to—I still am not ready. I told Kranz, \"I don't know how you can give up.\" I told both Kranz and Hannigan—this guy who just called me has a budget for some consulting work, and I told Kranz about it. I said, \"You can pick up some extra bucks, get a tour to Europe, go over and study some documents back here, go over there and present the results, sit in on a couple of their meetings.\" \"No,\" he said, \"I'm out of the business. Don't want to do it anymore.\" But I don't understand how they can walk away from it. Of course, he's got this now [referring to Kranz' book Failure is Not an Option]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, he's been reliving it in a way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. I'm really looking forward to that. I can't thank you enough for that, and Kranz, too. I'll send him an email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could courier it here for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to ask you if you could find out for me, if I need to get it through Houston, Barnes and Noble, I'd do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could help out with that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.460287067836305, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, absolutely. I'm really looking forward to that. I can't thank you enough for that, and Kranz, too. I'll send him an email."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could courier it here for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to ask you if you could find out for me, if I need to get it through Houston, Barnes and Noble, I'd do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could help out with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For both of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 21.62254118648478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was going to ask you if you could find out for me, if I need to get it through Houston, Barnes and Noble, I'd do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're glad that we could help out with that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "For both of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's great, yes. He's the guy I first talked to that hired me, and he's been my friend ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was very glad to hear that we were coming to talk to you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 18.299433563561458, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It's great, yes. He's the guy I first talked to that hired me, and he's been my friend ever since."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was very glad to hear that we were coming to talk to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I bet he was. He's a good guy. You only meet one guy like him in your lifetime. There's not very many. I used to say if you had to name the ten people who contributed, who made the manned space program successful, Kranz's name would be on that list. Guys like [Robert R.] Gilruth and George [M.] Low and people like that would also be on it, but Kranz would be on that list. He might even make the top five in my book, because it wouldn't have happened without him. Sometimes he would drive you absolutely nuts because he would never let anybody relax, let their guard down. If you got too relaxed, he was worried. \"Something's wrong here. We've got to keep these guys busy.\" So on some of those missions, like Spacelab where those boring LOS [loss of signal] periods would be forty-five minutes long or something, you'd think, \"Well, at least now I'll go out and read a magazine or something.\" No, no, not with Kranz. \"You can run a simulation. We're going to simulate now.\" He kept the torch lit under everybody all the time.\\n\\n You know Milt [Milton L.] Windler?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's a good guy, too. He was also with Hernandez Engineering when I was, and he was down at the Alena [phonetic] Company in Toreno. He did some outstanding work for them out there. I went down there and had some meetings with him and visited with him. He's a super guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly there were a lot of unique people and people with special talents that made all this happen."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.664126754399412, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I saw him—I was watching the movie, what's the one with Jodie Foster in it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Contact?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Contact. And this control center scene, and there's Gerry Griffin sitting there. He was in it. Did you see the movie?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's in it. He even had a speaking part in it. Amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hadn't realized that. I missed that when I saw it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.80756389432026, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's in it. He even had a speaking part in it. Amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I hadn't realized that. I missed that when I saw it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I heard he was hired as an advisor on that movie, but he was there, he was in it, and I saw him when he walked in with the flight director, all excited and everything. He sat down at the console and he had a speaking part in it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From flight controller to actor."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.81180727693859, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was. It was amazing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From flight controller to actor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lose track of these guys and don't know where they are anymore. Also another guy, Ed [Edward G.] Gibson. Where is he know? Do you know anything about him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe he's in Florida."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.6797858632651, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lose track of these guys and don't know where they are anymore. Also another guy, Ed [Edward G.] Gibson. Where is he know? Do you know anything about him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe he's in Florida."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida? Last I heard, he was in California at some museum or institute or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't gotten in contact with him yet, but we are hoping to this year."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.199762070294554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I lose track of these guys and don't know where they are anymore. Also another guy, Ed [Edward G.] Gibson. Where is he know? Do you know anything about him?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I believe he's in Florida."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida? Last I heard, he was in California at some museum or institute or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't gotten in contact with him yet, but we are hoping to this year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA assigned him as—no, I don't think it was NASA. I think he did it on his own. He took a leave of absence from NASA, but he worked at the Arinau [phonetic] plant in Bremen, Germany, for, I don't know, better than a year or so. I in those days was working at ESRTC and used to travel to Bremen all the time, so Ed and I got to be very good friends. In fact, it was the 1976 [American] Bicentennial when the ambassador—I was attached always to the embassy, to the Council for Scientific and Technological Affairs, was under the umbrella of the embassy, and he was trying to promote a big deal for the Bicentennial, and he wanted to set up a NASA exhibit. So I got Ed to join in. Nobody had gotten him yet, so I got him to come over. I would introduce him every day and he would show the films from his Skylab mission. Then we had an exhibit set up. I managed to capture all kind of stuff that happened to be floating around in Europe from NASA. Even a space suit we had. We had a really nice exhibit set up there.\\n\\n Ed came over, and he and I would go out afterward and answer all the questions and stuff. So Ed and I got to be pretty good friends, but I lost track of him after he came back here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one of the things we hope that through this project that we're able to do. In fact, we'll send you this, when we send you the final transcript, we send also a little note asking if it's all right to share your address with other participants of the project."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 27.999735633660613, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Florida? Last I heard, he was in California at some museum or institute or something like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't gotten in contact with him yet, but we are hoping to this year."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA assigned him as—no, I don't think it was NASA. I think he did it on his own. He took a leave of absence from NASA, but he worked at the Arinau [phonetic] plant in Bremen, Germany, for, I don't know, better than a year or so. I in those days was working at ESRTC and used to travel to Bremen all the time, so Ed and I got to be very good friends. In fact, it was the 1976 [American] Bicentennial when the ambassador—I was attached always to the embassy, to the Council for Scientific and Technological Affairs, was under the umbrella of the embassy, and he was trying to promote a big deal for the Bicentennial, and he wanted to set up a NASA exhibit. So I got Ed to join in. Nobody had gotten him yet, so I got him to come over. I would introduce him every day and he would show the films from his Skylab mission. Then we had an exhibit set up. I managed to capture all kind of stuff that happened to be floating around in Europe from NASA. Even a space suit we had. We had a really nice exhibit set up there.\\n\\n Ed came over, and he and I would go out afterward and answer all the questions and stuff. So Ed and I got to be pretty good friends, but I lost track of him after he came back here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's one of the things we hope that through this project that we're able to do. In fact, we'll send you this, when we send you the final transcript, we send also a little note asking if it's all right to share your address with other participants of the project."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. That's great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And we don't give it to anyone outside, but then once a year we're going to start trying to send then all of you that participated a list of each other's addresses so that you can get back in contact."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.185804389000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Part of Kranz's fire brigade that I always ended up on was this—you mentioned it in there, too. I forgot to mention it, the sim bay. We cleared out one bay of the service module and put all kind of scientific instruments in it. I managed to get myself involved in that from the operations side again, and again from the systems side, making sure that power was available and what kind of power each instrumented needed, and the data requirements and commands in and out, and temperature heat rejection, and all this kind of stuff. So I was part of that design team. That was absolutely incredible, what that team of people achieved in eighteen months from the time they were told to do it, they flew the first mission and allocated all that space and got everything out of there, and it worked. It worked fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So much that came together to make it all successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was part of that team. By then we really had a team on the ground. Man, oh, man, there was nothing we couldn't do. Nothing we couldn't do. We could have been to Mars a long time ago if they just had given us the direction to do it. We'd have been there. It's terrible that we haven't done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully we'll be able to see that without too many more years going by."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm skeptical. I wish I could agree with you. I'd like to see it, but I'm skeptical. I don't think there's a will there. In order to achieve Space Station, everything else had to go away. There's not enough money to do more than that. I don't see where Space Station is that much of an achievement, other than to build it and assemble it. Then what are you going to do with it for thirty years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, they're even having problems getting it built."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 9.095338210000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I was part of that team. By then we really had a team on the ground. Man, oh, man, there was nothing we couldn't do. Nothing we couldn't do. We could have been to Mars a long time ago if they just had given us the direction to do it. We'd have been there. It's terrible that we haven't done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully we'll be able to see that without too many more years going by."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm skeptical. I wish I could agree with you. I'd like to see it, but I'm skeptical. I don't think there's a will there. In order to achieve Space Station, everything else had to go away. There's not enough money to do more than that. I don't see where Space Station is that much of an achievement, other than to build it and assemble it. Then what are you going to do with it for thirty years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, they're even having problems getting it built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I've kind of lost track of that. I need to log on to some of the NASA sites and see what that assembly sequence is. I don't even know—when is the service module scheduled to go now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's scheduled for July, but I think they're having some questions about whether they will be able."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.6614869, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm skeptical. I wish I could agree with you. I'd like to see it, but I'm skeptical. I don't think there's a will there. In order to achieve Space Station, everything else had to go away. There's not enough money to do more than that. I don't see where Space Station is that much of an achievement, other than to build it and assemble it. Then what are you going to do with it for thirty years?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Unfortunately, they're even having problems getting it built."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I've kind of lost track of that. I need to log on to some of the NASA sites and see what that assembly sequence is. I don't even know—when is the service module scheduled to go now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's scheduled for July, but I think they're having some questions about whether they will be able."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. July. My God, it was due a year ago. Jochen still owes me twenty gilders on that, because he was convinced it would go in September of last year. I have to remind him of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. [Laughter] Well, you have certainly had a lot of interesting experiences."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:171", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.290541, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I've kind of lost track of that. I need to log on to some of the NASA sites and see what that assembly sequence is. I don't even know—when is the service module scheduled to go now?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it's scheduled for July, but I think they're having some questions about whether they will be able."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. July. My God, it was due a year ago. Jochen still owes me twenty gilders on that, because he was convinced it would go in September of last year. I have to remind him of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. [Laughter] Well, you have certainly had a lot of interesting experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure have. You know I've got cancer now. But I tell you what, I've had a heck of a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:173", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.98949, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Jeez. July. My God, it was due a year ago. Jochen still owes me twenty gilders on that, because he was convinced it would go in September of last year. I have to remind him of that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's right. [Laughter] Well, you have certainly had a lot of interesting experiences."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure have. You know I've got cancer now. But I tell you what, I've had a heck of a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life has been one huge adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly has been, and we thank you so much for sharing it with us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:175", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.7661, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I sure have. You know I've got cancer now. But I tell you what, I've had a heck of a life."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life has been one huge adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly has been, and we thank you so much for sharing it with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate it. You get me started talking on this stuff, and I can't quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we would love to continue listening."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 8.629, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My life has been one huge adventure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It certainly has been, and we thank you so much for sharing it with us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate it. You get me started talking on this stuff, and I can't quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we would love to continue listening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was sending out those news bulletins, I never sold a house as a result of that, but I used to run into my neighbors around here where I sent them, say, \"Hey, when are you going to send us another one? We look forward to that.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's neat. That's really neat. People are very interested in the space program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I appreciate it. You get me started talking on this stuff, and I can't quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, we would love to continue listening."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was sending out those news bulletins, I never sold a house as a result of that, but I used to run into my neighbors around here where I sent them, say, \"Hey, when are you going to send us another one? We look forward to that.\" [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's neat. That's really neat. People are very interested in the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned to you I was—I may still some day get involved with this Challenger Center. If they got it going, I would be involved with it now. I went in a shopping mall up here a couple of years ago and they had a storefront there, and they were selling stuff. I wondered, \"What is that?\" I went in there and met some of the people and talked with them and learned about it. They learned about my background and immediately wanted to suck me into their world of activity. I didn't mind doing it. I got involved with it and I got involved in some of the fund-raising. I was still in the real estate business, so I went around twisting the arms of the title companies and the lending companies to buy these tiles that will be in the entrance hall with their names on and stuff, donate money. I'd come to $100-a-plate meals that weren't very good and stuff. [Laughter]\\n\\n But at that time they were talking about having it going a year and a half ago, but they had severe funding problems. What they're building is very elaborate. It's probably the most elaborate one of any around. The one down in Tucson is at the Pima Air [and Space] Museum, is an old hangar that the Air Force let them have, but these guys are building a whole new building, very nice architecture, very state of the art. I like the idea of it, to work with the kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a great idea."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:187", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And in the background [referring to a photograph] you can see the group I worked with at ESA, and that's the tip of the arm. You can see the robotic arm in the thermovac chamber at ESRTC. They were getting ready to run tests on it. And over here is my Skylab model. Behind the door."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure enough. Very nice. I'm sure the kids got a kick out of all that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. I always take stuff like these flags that have been to the surface of the Moon and stuff, and they were really impressed with all of that. It was fun, trying to inspire a little bit of interest for them. That's what I like about the Challenger Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If my health allows, I might get involved with it. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll certainly hope that all that does come through."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00052:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did. I always take stuff like these flags that have been to the surface of the Moon and stuff, and they were really impressed with all of that. It was fun, trying to inspire a little bit of interest for them. That's what I like about the Challenger Center."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If my health allows, I might get involved with it. I don't know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll certainly hope that all that does come through."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. I hope so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you are able to remain healthy and to help all of that work out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.249714360999343, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I was going to Northrop Aeronautical Institute, they came recruiting. They hired me and I stayed there for 32 years I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where was the Northrop Institute? Where was that located?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hawthorne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.055238178888159, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Hawthorne."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 24."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent some time in the—what branch of the service were you in?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.839153532097954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How old were you when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 24."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent some time in the—what branch of the service were you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to the institute, and what were your plans at the institute? What were you there for? What kind of training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.487948368997726, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably 24."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You spent some time in the—what branch of the service were you in?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to the institute, and what were your plans at the institute? What were you there for? What kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got an FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] A&E [aircraft maintenance technician] certificate to maintain aircraft and release them for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you complete your training at the Institute before you came out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.208831521108585, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Army."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went to the institute, and what were your plans at the institute? What were you there for? What kind of training?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got an FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] A&E [aircraft maintenance technician] certificate to maintain aircraft and release them for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you complete your training at the Institute before you came out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you originally from California?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.8987016901206495, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got an FAA [Federal Aviation Administration] A&E [aircraft maintenance technician] certificate to maintain aircraft and release them for flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you complete your training at the Institute before you came out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you originally from California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kansas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yes, that’s a little ways away. Well, it was nice that you were able to be at the right place at the right time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.228671728560562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are you originally from California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Kansas."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, yes, that’s a little ways away. Well, it was nice that you were able to be at the right place at the right time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came out here to go to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was it that you were part of that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.455150282173533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I came out here to go to school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What year was it that you were part of that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "1951.\n\nThe Army, the veterans training after he got out of the service helped many many men his age go to school.\n\nThe GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went on the GI Bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married at the time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.172389202415037, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "1951.\n\nThe Army, the veterans training after he got out of the service helped many many men his age go to school.\n\nThe GI Bill [Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went on the GI Bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NACA sent a recruiter down to the Northrop Institute?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.743690373351897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went on the GI Bill."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were married at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NACA sent a recruiter down to the Northrop Institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved where? Did you come out to Lancaster or Palmdale [California]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.32554367080481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So NACA sent a recruiter down to the Northrop Institute?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved where? Did you come out to Lancaster or Palmdale [California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mojave [California].\n\nMojave, it was the only place we had to live. The deactivated Marine barracks is what we lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was cozy, I’m sure."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.250604078672012, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you moved where? Did you come out to Lancaster or Palmdale [California]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mojave [California].\n\nMojave, it was the only place we had to live. The deactivated Marine barracks is what we lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was cozy, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to sweep the sand out of the tub. And we had a barrel of oil in front of the kitchen window; that was how we heated and cooked.\n\nHeating oil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were camping before you knew that. You were pioneers. Tell us about the first days of working out at the base. What did they have you do?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.408153183545693, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mojave [California].\n\nMojave, it was the only place we had to live. The deactivated Marine barracks is what we lived in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was cozy, I’m sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to sweep the sand out of the tub. And we had a barrel of oil in front of the kitchen window; that was how we heated and cooked.\n\nHeating oil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were camping before you knew that. You were pioneers. Tell us about the first days of working out at the base. What did they have you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first day probably mostly orientation, to show you what kind of work they did and what they expected you to do, which helped get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of planes were in the hangars when you arrived?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.738460720426781, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You had to sweep the sand out of the tub. And we had a barrel of oil in front of the kitchen window; that was how we heated and cooked.\n\nHeating oil."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, you were camping before you knew that. You were pioneers. Tell us about the first days of working out at the base. What did they have you do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first day probably mostly orientation, to show you what kind of work they did and what they expected you to do, which helped get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of planes were in the hangars when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "X models, [Bell] X-1, X-2, X-3, X-4, X-5. And the [North American] X-15.\n\nWell, that [the X-15] would have been some years later, honey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a sight to see planes that you had never seen before."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.3847197811066954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The first day probably mostly orientation, to show you what kind of work they did and what they expected you to do, which helped get started."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of planes were in the hangars when you arrived?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "X models, [Bell] X-1, X-2, X-3, X-4, X-5. And the [North American] X-15.\n\nWell, that [the X-15] would have been some years later, honey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a sight to see planes that you had never seen before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. That’s probably why I stayed. It looked very interesting.\n\nHe was flying before he came out here, but he wasn’t a pilot out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flying your own plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.649688645674106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "X models, [Bell] X-1, X-2, X-3, X-4, X-5. And the [North American] X-15.\n\nWell, that [the X-15] would have been some years later, honey."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been quite a sight to see planes that you had never seen before."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. That’s probably why I stayed. It looked very interesting.\n\nHe was flying before he came out here, but he wasn’t a pilot out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flying your own plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn Kansas.\n\nThat was before I was married. After that I couldn’t afford to do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, those planes, it’s an expensive hobby, isn’t it? Those days that you went up, what did you have to bring when you went to work there? Did you have to bring your own tools as part of your job? Or did they supply tools and training for those planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:40", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.944098495193451, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was, yes. That’s probably why I stayed. It looked very interesting.\n\nHe was flying before he came out here, but he wasn’t a pilot out here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flying your own plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn Kansas.\n\nThat was before I was married. After that I couldn’t afford to do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, those planes, it’s an expensive hobby, isn’t it? Those days that you went up, what did you have to bring when you went to work there? Did you have to bring your own tools as part of your job? Or did they supply tools and training for those planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to furnish our own hand-tools, but lots of test equipment was furnished, and had to learn how to use that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught you how to do that? The people who had been working on it for a while, the team that was already there? Did they train you how to work on the test equipment?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 3.2712205502149456, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes.\n\nIn Kansas.\n\nThat was before I was married. After that I couldn’t afford to do that anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, those planes, it’s an expensive hobby, isn’t it? Those days that you went up, what did you have to bring when you went to work there? Did you have to bring your own tools as part of your job? Or did they supply tools and training for those planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to furnish our own hand-tools, but lots of test equipment was furnished, and had to learn how to use that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught you how to do that? The people who had been working on it for a while, the team that was already there? Did they train you how to work on the test equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It would have been very hard to go to work with not knowing anything about it, but all the people that were there were very helpful and showed you everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were some of the men that were there, were they from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5235783891277173, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had to furnish our own hand-tools, but lots of test equipment was furnished, and had to learn how to use that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who taught you how to do that? The people who had been working on it for a while, the team that was already there? Did they train you how to work on the test equipment?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It would have been very hard to go to work with not knowing anything about it, but all the people that were there were very helpful and showed you everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were some of the men that were there, were they from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was original, actually, when I hired in, the papers and everything I hired in were from Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the title? What was your first assignment or your first title when you walked into NACA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 2.803975987919686, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It would have been very hard to go to work with not knowing anything about it, but all the people that were there were very helpful and showed you everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were some of the men that were there, were they from Langley [Research Center, Hampton, Virginia]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was original, actually, when I hired in, the papers and everything I hired in were from Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the title? What was your first assignment or your first title when you walked into NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was a mechanic originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about maybe the first plane and the first flight that you worked on or even witnessed out there, or one that’s memorable to you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0044177643552064, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That was original, actually, when I hired in, the papers and everything I hired in were from Langley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember the title? What was your first assignment or your first title when you walked into NACA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was a mechanic originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about maybe the first plane and the first flight that you worked on or even witnessed out there, or one that’s memorable to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the first plane I worked on was the X-4. If we were at [my home in] Tehachapi [California] I could show you pictures of all of them, but I don’t have them here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they all different?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.2271308492835624, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess I was a mechanic originally."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about maybe the first plane and the first flight that you worked on or even witnessed out there, or one that’s memorable to you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the first plane I worked on was the X-4. If we were at [my home in] Tehachapi [California] I could show you pictures of all of them, but I don’t have them here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they all different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They built three of each X model usually and usually one of them crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you witness that as well? Did you see some of the crashes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.4745898325372915, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably the first plane I worked on was the X-4. If we were at [my home in] Tehachapi [California] I could show you pictures of all of them, but I don’t have them here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they all different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They built three of each X model usually and usually one of them crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you witness that as well? Did you see some of the crashes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that impact the workforce, the people who worked on those planes? How were you able to start again the next day and keep working?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.055049175971965, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. They built three of each X model usually and usually one of them crashed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you witness that as well? Did you see some of the crashes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that impact the workforce, the people who worked on those planes? How were you able to start again the next day and keep working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to, even though the pilot got killed, you had to keep going and do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a mechanic did you have a lot of input if you saw something wrong with the plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3944990844132943, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that impact the workforce, the people who worked on those planes? How were you able to start again the next day and keep working?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to, even though the pilot got killed, you had to keep going and do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a mechanic did you have a lot of input if you saw something wrong with the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. As a mechanic inspection was part of your job too. You checked each other’s work to make sure your fellow hadn’t messed something up.\n\nBecause he went from a mechanic to an inspector, and then to Chief of Inspection. He was in the office then after a while. He went to school, and they sent him to school. He was quality control, but he had retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the changes? You worked on the X planes and then the X-15. Tell us about changing your role from a mechanic then to one that was in charge of the inspections. That was a lot of responsibility to make sure that those planes were ready to fly."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7716656493481047, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you had to, even though the pilot got killed, you had to keep going and do it again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As a mechanic did you have a lot of input if you saw something wrong with the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. As a mechanic inspection was part of your job too. You checked each other’s work to make sure your fellow hadn’t messed something up.\n\nBecause he went from a mechanic to an inspector, and then to Chief of Inspection. He was in the office then after a while. He went to school, and they sent him to school. He was quality control, but he had retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the changes? You worked on the X planes and then the X-15. Tell us about changing your role from a mechanic then to one that was in charge of the inspections. That was a lot of responsibility to make sure that those planes were ready to fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you gained experience you were more qualified to do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know a lot about when they would make the changes like from the early X planes to the X-15, and then they went to the Lifting Bodies? Were you involved in those discussions about the designs of the planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 4.656377344874203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. As a mechanic inspection was part of your job too. You checked each other’s work to make sure your fellow hadn’t messed something up.\n\nBecause he went from a mechanic to an inspector, and then to Chief of Inspection. He was in the office then after a while. He went to school, and they sent him to school. He was quality control, but he had retired."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the changes? You worked on the X planes and then the X-15. Tell us about changing your role from a mechanic then to one that was in charge of the inspections. That was a lot of responsibility to make sure that those planes were ready to fly."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you gained experience you were more qualified to do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know a lot about when they would make the changes like from the early X planes to the X-15, and then they went to the Lifting Bodies? Were you involved in those discussions about the designs of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We were involved in the design of a lot of new—had to put new input in the designs, see if we could approve of what they were doing, and not make mistakes, and try to keep them from making mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess sometimes ideas look good on paper but they don’t fly very well, do they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:66", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.06264149430467, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As you gained experience you were more qualified to do those things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you know a lot about when they would make the changes like from the early X planes to the X-15, and then they went to the Lifting Bodies? Were you involved in those discussions about the designs of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We were involved in the design of a lot of new—had to put new input in the designs, see if we could approve of what they were doing, and not make mistakes, and try to keep them from making mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess sometimes ideas look good on paper but they don’t fly very well, do they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right.\n\nHe had to keep them straightened out from the Engineering Department. They didn’t like that sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were some planes that never got off the ground? Were there some of those too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:68", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.904495671981074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. We were involved in the design of a lot of new—had to put new input in the designs, see if we could approve of what they were doing, and not make mistakes, and try to keep them from making mistakes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess sometimes ideas look good on paper but they don’t fly very well, do they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right.\n\nHe had to keep them straightened out from the Engineering Department. They didn’t like that sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were some planes that never got off the ground? Were there some of those too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from the X planes, and you went to those Lifting Bodies. What were your thoughts when you first saw some of the designs for that type of a structure?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:70", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.3383285244234155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right.\n\nHe had to keep them straightened out from the Engineering Department. They didn’t like that sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure there were some planes that never got off the ground? Were there some of those too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from the X planes, and you went to those Lifting Bodies. What were your thoughts when you first saw some of the designs for that type of a structure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Lifting Body didn’t have any wings, the lift came from the bottom of the fuselage. They flew pretty good, it was a good reentry vehicle for reentering the atmosphere from flying in space.\n\nI think one of the really interesting things is when they started, the way they checked the motors, the only way was to put their ear right against the motor. That’s the reason why he is deaf almost. That’s how they checked to make sure that it was going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about that? What were you listening for when you would put your ear down by the motor?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.820365027137128, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You went from the X planes, and you went to those Lifting Bodies. What were your thoughts when you first saw some of the designs for that type of a structure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Lifting Body didn’t have any wings, the lift came from the bottom of the fuselage. They flew pretty good, it was a good reentry vehicle for reentering the atmosphere from flying in space.\n\nI think one of the really interesting things is when they started, the way they checked the motors, the only way was to put their ear right against the motor. That’s the reason why he is deaf almost. That’s how they checked to make sure that it was going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about that? What were you listening for when you would put your ear down by the motor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any bearings and things that were making noise. Some of the pictures they have of us checking airplanes, everybody was around, and the only ear protection we had was this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put your fingers in your ears? That didn’t help much, did it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.355961141263475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A Lifting Body didn’t have any wings, the lift came from the bottom of the fuselage. They flew pretty good, it was a good reentry vehicle for reentering the atmosphere from flying in space.\n\nI think one of the really interesting things is when they started, the way they checked the motors, the only way was to put their ear right against the motor. That’s the reason why he is deaf almost. That’s how they checked to make sure that it was going to fly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little more about that? What were you listening for when you would put your ear down by the motor?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any bearings and things that were making noise. Some of the pictures they have of us checking airplanes, everybody was around, and the only ear protection we had was this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put your fingers in your ears? That didn’t help much, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. So all of us ended up deaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that so interesting, because the only way that you knew that it sounded correctly was constantly being around the correct sound."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:78", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.951067934737194, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Any bearings and things that were making noise. Some of the pictures they have of us checking airplanes, everybody was around, and the only ear protection we had was this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Put your fingers in your ears? That didn’t help much, did it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. So all of us ended up deaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that so interesting, because the only way that you knew that it sounded correctly was constantly being around the correct sound."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you identified that there was something not correct, how did you tell someone?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:80", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.61229770526355, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not much. So all of us ended up deaf."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I find that so interesting, because the only way that you knew that it sounded correctly was constantly being around the correct sound."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you identified that there was something not correct, how did you tell someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d wave at the coordinator up in front, and he’d shut it down. Then we’d go look and see if we could find out what the problem was. Usually we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of teamwork that they trusted you to—and hopefully that you knew what you were talking about or hearing. Are there any other tricks that you had that you knew, like when you heard the bearings not being right, or the engine not sounding right? Is there anything else that you taught the next group of people to listen for?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:82", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.346997450292833, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you identified that there was something not correct, how did you tell someone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d wave at the coordinator up in front, and he’d shut it down. Then we’d go look and see if we could find out what the problem was. Usually we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of teamwork that they trusted you to—and hopefully that you knew what you were talking about or hearing. Are there any other tricks that you had that you knew, like when you heard the bearings not being right, or the engine not sounding right? Is there anything else that you taught the next group of people to listen for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes when we had an engine problem, we’d get the factory people back down there to work on it, and tell them what was going wrong. They’d work on it, and finally figure out a fix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with North American or McDonnell Douglas?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:84", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.9411082781031475, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We’d wave at the coordinator up in front, and he’d shut it down. Then we’d go look and see if we could find out what the problem was. Usually we could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s a lot of teamwork that they trusted you to—and hopefully that you knew what you were talking about or hearing. Are there any other tricks that you had that you knew, like when you heard the bearings not being right, or the engine not sounding right? Is there anything else that you taught the next group of people to listen for?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes when we had an engine problem, we’d get the factory people back down there to work on it, and tell them what was going wrong. They’d work on it, and finally figure out a fix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with North American or McDonnell Douglas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Northrop, North American, Rockwell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to go work for any of those companies?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:86", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.601231420114608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sometimes when we had an engine problem, we’d get the factory people back down there to work on it, and tell them what was going wrong. They’d work on it, and finally figure out a fix."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked closely with North American or McDonnell Douglas?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Northrop, North American, Rockwell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to go work for any of those companies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could have but I didn’t go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to stay with NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:88", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.33470157790512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Northrop, North American, Rockwell."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever have an opportunity to go work for any of those companies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could have but I didn’t go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to stay with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked working there, and the variety of projects we had. If you went for a company you were just working on one item usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lot of projects like three or four? Or were there different projects in different stages all the time when you were there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:90", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.149668419894578, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I could have but I didn’t go."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why did you decide to stay with NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked working there, and the variety of projects we had. If you went for a company you were just working on one item usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lot of projects like three or four? Or were there different projects in different stages all the time when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were three or four projects going on at the same time, three or four different airplanes at different stages of testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’57, when the Soviet Union launched Sputnik [satellite], it started a change in America’s culture, and NASA was then formed. Do you remember much about the transition, or was there a big transition there when all of that began to happen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:92", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 7.9440760221050875, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I liked working there, and the variety of projects we had. If you went for a company you were just working on one item usually."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lot of projects like three or four? Or were there different projects in different stages all the time when you were there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were three or four projects going on at the same time, three or four different airplanes at different stages of testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’57, when the Soviet Union launched Sputnik [satellite], it started a change in America’s culture, and NASA was then formed. Do you remember much about the transition, or was there a big transition there when all of that began to happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember I was working night shift, and we’d go outside and watch it fly over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a good view out there, didn’t you? Were there any changes after NACA transitioned into NASA that affected your job? Or was it just a badge and a patch change?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:94", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.4934178023389855, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were three or four projects going on at the same time, three or four different airplanes at different stages of testing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In ’57, when the Soviet Union launched Sputnik [satellite], it started a change in America’s culture, and NASA was then formed. Do you remember much about the transition, or was there a big transition there when all of that began to happen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember I was working night shift, and we’d go outside and watch it fly over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a good view out there, didn’t you? Were there any changes after NACA transitioned into NASA that affected your job? Or was it just a badge and a patch change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a Moon landing system for the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle [LLRV], which was developed to test a landing vehicle for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of work did you do with that research vehicle? Did you help with the design or inspecting for the safety?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:96", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.103797558154429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I remember I was working night shift, and we’d go outside and watch it fly over."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had a good view out there, didn’t you? Were there any changes after NACA transitioned into NASA that affected your job? Or was it just a badge and a patch change?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a Moon landing system for the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle [LLRV], which was developed to test a landing vehicle for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of work did you do with that research vehicle? Did you help with the design or inspecting for the safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly safety work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a very treacherous vehicle, isn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:98", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.535552540931393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had developed a Moon landing system for the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle [LLRV], which was developed to test a landing vehicle for the Moon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of work did you do with that research vehicle? Did you help with the design or inspecting for the safety?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly safety work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a very treacherous vehicle, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any time. But the accidents were minimum, if I remember, is that correct?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:100", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9283917121459924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly safety work."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s a very treacherous vehicle, isn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any time. But the accidents were minimum, if I remember, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not many accidents.\n\nThere’s one other little thing. This is just an aside, but during the Russian thing he came home with a book, what I was supposed to do should we get hit. He told me, “You take the children and go straight to the Borax Mine, because at the Borax Mine out next to Edwards [Air Force Base] they had underground place for all the employees’ families to go in case of a Russian attack. And I think in Tehachapi we still have the little booklet of what we should do, and what we should have on hand, the wives, to go quickly. Heck, we were an hour away, and I had five little kids. It would have been something for me to get them all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, just getting them in the car. I’m sure you had them trained by then, but that’s that hidden fear at that time of knowing what to do."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:102", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.364879680162214, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Things could happen."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At any time. But the accidents were minimum, if I remember, is that correct?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not many accidents.\n\nThere’s one other little thing. This is just an aside, but during the Russian thing he came home with a book, what I was supposed to do should we get hit. He told me, “You take the children and go straight to the Borax Mine, because at the Borax Mine out next to Edwards [Air Force Base] they had underground place for all the employees’ families to go in case of a Russian attack. And I think in Tehachapi we still have the little booklet of what we should do, and what we should have on hand, the wives, to go quickly. Heck, we were an hour away, and I had five little kids. It would have been something for me to get them all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, just getting them in the car. I’m sure you had them trained by then, but that’s that hidden fear at that time of knowing what to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was, it was very real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then years later, with the race to the Moon, you were part of that, by helping with that LLRV."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:104", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.849866311291349, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not many accidents.\n\nThere’s one other little thing. This is just an aside, but during the Russian thing he came home with a book, what I was supposed to do should we get hit. He told me, “You take the children and go straight to the Borax Mine, because at the Borax Mine out next to Edwards [Air Force Base] they had underground place for all the employees’ families to go in case of a Russian attack. And I think in Tehachapi we still have the little booklet of what we should do, and what we should have on hand, the wives, to go quickly. Heck, we were an hour away, and I had five little kids. It would have been something for me to get them all out there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, just getting them in the car. I’m sure you had them trained by then, but that’s that hidden fear at that time of knowing what to do."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was, it was very real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then years later, with the race to the Moon, you were part of that, by helping with that LLRV."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of watching when the pilots would take it out and try it and experiment with it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.388740345879277, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was, it was very real."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then years later, with the race to the Moon, you were part of that, by helping with that LLRV."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of watching when the pilots would take it out and try it and experiment with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Buckled them up in the seats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did the test take, was it different than the other airplanes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:109", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.876378162088085, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you part of watching when the pilots would take it out and try it and experiment with it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Buckled them up in the seats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did the test take, was it different than the other airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. One of the airplanes we had would only fly about 15 minutes and come back and refuel and go again and go full speed and it wouldn’t take long for them to burn up all their fuel, so they had to come right back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you inspect it each time it was back on the ground?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.41819795787565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Buckled them up in the seats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did the test take, was it different than the other airplanes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. One of the airplanes we had would only fly about 15 minutes and come back and refuel and go again and go full speed and it wouldn’t take long for them to burn up all their fuel, so they had to come right back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you inspect it each time it was back on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make modifications or take notes? Or what were you doing when it came back down?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.797997730972944, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different. One of the airplanes we had would only fly about 15 minutes and come back and refuel and go again and go full speed and it wouldn’t take long for them to burn up all their fuel, so they had to come right back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you inspect it each time it was back on the ground?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make modifications or take notes? Or what were you doing when it came back down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it for any leaks, or see if it had been damaged from heat. They get hot from flying fast through the atmosphere. Makes them very hot. In fact one of our X-15s they added fuel tanks and got it going too fast and burned part of the controls off. It was made out of Inconel X [alloy], not aluminum. It got hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was an experiment in itself, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.219997478858827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you make modifications or take notes? Or what were you doing when it came back down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it for any leaks, or see if it had been damaged from heat. They get hot from flying fast through the atmosphere. Makes them very hot. In fact one of our X-15s they added fuel tanks and got it going too fast and burned part of the controls off. It was made out of Inconel X [alloy], not aluminum. It got hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was an experiment in itself, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pilots had suits, did you have any protective gear or any special equipment you put on when you were inspecting those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.688886087620919, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Check it for any leaks, or see if it had been damaged from heat. They get hot from flying fast through the atmosphere. Makes them very hot. In fact one of our X-15s they added fuel tanks and got it going too fast and burned part of the controls off. It was made out of Inconel X [alloy], not aluminum. It got hot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess that was an experiment in itself, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pilots had suits, did you have any protective gear or any special equipment you put on when you were inspecting those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on the type of fuel they were using. Some of the fuel was very toxic, so we had to use pressurized suits with breathing apparatus. That wasn’t very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I guess it was better than breathing in dangerous fumes. Did you have a large team that you worked with when you would be working with these planes on the ground? How many people did you work with that were the ground crew?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.2098734306899095, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The pilots had suits, did you have any protective gear or any special equipment you put on when you were inspecting those?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on the type of fuel they were using. Some of the fuel was very toxic, so we had to use pressurized suits with breathing apparatus. That wasn’t very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I guess it was better than breathing in dangerous fumes. Did you have a large team that you worked with when you would be working with these planes on the ground? How many people did you work with that were the ground crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men? They were all men?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.788748256322122, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It depended on the type of fuel they were using. Some of the fuel was very toxic, so we had to use pressurized suits with breathing apparatus. That wasn’t very comfortable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, but I guess it was better than breathing in dangerous fumes. Did you have a large team that you worked with when you would be working with these planes on the ground? How many people did you work with that were the ground crew?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men? They were all men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that time. There’s some women now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Apollo Program closed down, the [Space] Shuttle Program was moving its way through its development. What role did you play, or how were you involved with that at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.912034884348298, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, probably 15."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All men? They were all men?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that time. There’s some women now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Apollo Program closed down, the [Space] Shuttle Program was moving its way through its development. What role did you play, or how were you involved with that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some testing on the Shuttle, mostly reentering into the atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those Lifting Bodies worked again, didn’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.568927649275887, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. At that time. There’s some women now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After the Apollo Program closed down, the [Space] Shuttle Program was moving its way through its development. What role did you play, or how were you involved with that at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some testing on the Shuttle, mostly reentering into the atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those Lifting Bodies worked again, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Were you quality control then, honey?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We just mentioned about more women being involved now out at the base and at the Station. Once NASA started moving toward finding a way to the Moon, were there more people that were joining out there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.542947186825004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We did some testing on the Shuttle, mostly reentering into the atmosphere."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those Lifting Bodies worked again, didn’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Were you quality control then, honey?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We just mentioned about more women being involved now out at the base and at the Station. Once NASA started moving toward finding a way to the Moon, were there more people that were joining out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was an interesting program. A lot of people wanted to come to work there, so they had a good pick of experience there to hire from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of training programs did you go through after you got there? Did they send you to learn more about anything in specific, as you were moving your way up through your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 8.38105242980556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Were you quality control then, honey?\n\nYes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We just mentioned about more women being involved now out at the base and at the Station. Once NASA started moving toward finding a way to the Moon, were there more people that were joining out there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was an interesting program. A lot of people wanted to come to work there, so they had a good pick of experience there to hire from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of training programs did you go through after you got there? Did they send you to learn more about anything in specific, as you were moving your way up through your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually when we got some new equipment, new projects, they usually had people right on base that took us through the training for it, and operating it.\n\nYou went back to the University of Kansas, they sent you back east for several things. Do you remember that, honey? They sent you back east to train, and you went to KU to train.\n\nYes.\n\nThere were a number of things that you went back east for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those for management type classes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.201169366450621, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. It was an interesting program. A lot of people wanted to come to work there, so they had a good pick of experience there to hire from."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What types of training programs did you go through after you got there? Did they send you to learn more about anything in specific, as you were moving your way up through your career?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually when we got some new equipment, new projects, they usually had people right on base that took us through the training for it, and operating it.\n\nYou went back to the University of Kansas, they sent you back east for several things. Do you remember that, honey? They sent you back east to train, and you went to KU to train.\n\nYes.\n\nThere were a number of things that you went back east for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those for management type classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at KU, it was to teach. At different universities, they were teaching people to come to work out here or interest them. I think that’s what he did at KU. He’ll know if he thinks about it for a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time period was that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.7790770738340225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Usually when we got some new equipment, new projects, they usually had people right on base that took us through the training for it, and operating it.\n\nYou went back to the University of Kansas, they sent you back east for several things. Do you remember that, honey? They sent you back east to train, and you went to KU to train.\n\nYes.\n\nThere were a number of things that you went back east for."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were those for management type classes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at KU, it was to teach. At different universities, they were teaching people to come to work out here or interest them. I think that’s what he did at KU. He’ll know if he thinks about it for a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time period was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was when you were in quality control, wasn’t it? It was when the Space Shuttle was starting? Because he was there through the second Space Shuttle landing. I’m sorry dear, did I confuse you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. We’ve got time to sort it out. There was a lot going on all the time, wasn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.421196748704469, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, at KU, it was to teach. At different universities, they were teaching people to come to work out here or interest them. I think that’s what he did at KU. He’ll know if he thinks about it for a minute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What time period was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was when you were in quality control, wasn’t it? It was when the Space Shuttle was starting? Because he was there through the second Space Shuttle landing. I’m sorry dear, did I confuse you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. We’ve got time to sort it out. There was a lot going on all the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes we forget that just because a plane is flying, there’s two or three more that are being designed and looked at."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 7.134663054116077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was when you were in quality control, wasn’t it? It was when the Space Shuttle was starting? Because he was there through the second Space Shuttle landing. I’m sorry dear, did I confuse you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s okay. We’ve got time to sort it out. There was a lot going on all the time, wasn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes we forget that just because a plane is flying, there’s two or three more that are being designed and looked at."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite memory or a favorite time that you were working out there that you’d like to share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.573658091501329, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think sometimes we forget that just because a plane is flying, there’s two or three more that are being designed and looked at."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite memory or a favorite time that you were working out there that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my favorite project was the X-15 Project. It was new and it was faster and lots of new things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever scare you being around that plane? It was a powerful piece of equipment."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 8.415175657223699, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you have a favorite memory or a favorite time that you were working out there that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my favorite project was the X-15 Project. It was new and it was faster and lots of new things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever scare you being around that plane? It was a powerful piece of equipment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was noisy.\n\nI don’t think he was ever scared. He loved that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to fly in any of the planes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.6835285080263316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Probably my favorite project was the X-15 Project. It was new and it was faster and lots of new things."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did it ever scare you being around that plane? It was a powerful piece of equipment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was noisy.\n\nI don’t think he was ever scared. He loved that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to fly in any of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, when we had [Boeing] B-29s [Superfortress] launching our rockets, X-1s and X-2s, I flew in the backseat of the B-29 sometimes watched them launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a very unique perspective, wasn’t it? Were you able to learn anything to apply to the next time? Or was it just for observation to watch it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.9816983422514793, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was noisy.\n\nI don’t think he was ever scared. He loved that job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get to fly in any of the planes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, when we had [Boeing] B-29s [Superfortress] launching our rockets, X-1s and X-2s, I flew in the backseat of the B-29 sometimes watched them launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a very unique perspective, wasn’t it? Were you able to learn anything to apply to the next time? Or was it just for observation to watch it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly for observation, make sure the engine was performing before they launched and there weren’t any big leaks or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you back in time for the landing to see it land?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:152", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.312998158057199, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the early days, when we had [Boeing] B-29s [Superfortress] launching our rockets, X-1s and X-2s, I flew in the backseat of the B-29 sometimes watched them launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a very unique perspective, wasn’t it? Were you able to learn anything to apply to the next time? Or was it just for observation to watch it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly for observation, make sure the engine was performing before they launched and there weren’t any big leaks or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you back in time for the landing to see it land?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel much for your job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:154", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 3.681109064507999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Mostly for observation, make sure the engine was performing before they launched and there weren’t any big leaks or anything like that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you back in time for the landing to see it land?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel much for your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a good thing? With five kids, I’m sure it was helpful not to be on the road."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:156", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8678989605644436, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you travel much for your job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a good thing? With five kids, I’m sure it was helpful not to be on the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In later years he traveled more. He was gone so much because they went in early. There were some times when they had a project going they worked 21 hours a day and they slept at Edwards in the hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had to keep them going, didn’t you? I was going to ask Sandra if she had some other questions. I know she’s been taking some notes.\n\nYes, I have a couple of questions. When they came and recruited you, when you were in school, for the NACA, how much did you know about what was being done with the NACA at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:158", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.0754432895160484, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that a good thing? With five kids, I’m sure it was helpful not to be on the road."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In later years he traveled more. He was gone so much because they went in early. There were some times when they had a project going they worked 21 hours a day and they slept at Edwards in the hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had to keep them going, didn’t you? I was going to ask Sandra if she had some other questions. I know she’s been taking some notes.\n\nYes, I have a couple of questions. When they came and recruited you, when you were in school, for the NACA, how much did you know about what was being done with the NACA at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had barely heard about it. But it sounded very interesting from the recruiters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they explain some of the work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:160", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.5622756660691954, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In later years he traveled more. He was gone so much because they went in early. There were some times when they had a project going they worked 21 hours a day and they slept at Edwards in the hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had to keep them going, didn’t you? I was going to ask Sandra if she had some other questions. I know she’s been taking some notes.\n\nYes, I have a couple of questions. When they came and recruited you, when you were in school, for the NACA, how much did you know about what was being done with the NACA at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had barely heard about it. But it sounded very interesting from the recruiters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they explain some of the work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of it was classified, so did you have to have secret clearance to work on the X planes and the X-15?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.846972962299106, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had barely heard about it. But it sounded very interesting from the recruiters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they explain some of the work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of it was classified, so did you have to have secret clearance to work on the X planes and the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a secret clearance. I don’t remember when I got it.\n\nYou got it right after you went to work, because back in Kansas, they were going around in the neighborhood—they thought he was in trouble—and checking on everything he had done and the service that he had been in, everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I would imagine, since he was working on those early X planes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:165", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1633032914434507, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I know a lot of it was classified, so did you have to have secret clearance to work on the X planes and the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a secret clearance. I don’t remember when I got it.\n\nYou got it right after you went to work, because back in Kansas, they were going around in the neighborhood—they thought he was in trouble—and checking on everything he had done and the service that he had been in, everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I would imagine, since he was working on those early X planes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they couldn’t imagine why he was getting [investigated]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it made people wonder, didn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:167", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.5147814349371673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a secret clearance. I don’t remember when I got it.\n\nYou got it right after you went to work, because back in Kansas, they were going around in the neighborhood—they thought he was in trouble—and checking on everything he had done and the service that he had been in, everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I would imagine, since he was working on those early X planes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they couldn’t imagine why he was getting [investigated]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it made people wonder, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Small town Kansas was very curious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the working conditions? Because when you started they were still at the South Base in the old section."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:170", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9053127054857413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And they couldn’t imagine why he was getting [investigated]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it made people wonder, didn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Small town Kansas was very curious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the working conditions? Because when you started they were still at the South Base in the old section."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then in 1954 is when they moved to the new buildings."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:172", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.339236339428601, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Small town Kansas was very curious."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were the working conditions? Because when you started they were still at the South Base in the old section."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then in 1954 is when they moved to the new buildings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did those working conditions compare for what you were doing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:174", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.821373710476224, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then in 1954 is when they moved to the new buildings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did those working conditions compare for what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so quickly that you couldn’t tell much difference really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a hangar?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:176", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.3570819005291375, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did those working conditions compare for what you were doing?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so quickly that you couldn’t tell much difference really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more convenient for you on that side of that base?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:178", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.841202111699041, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so quickly that you couldn’t tell much difference really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were in a hangar?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "New hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more convenient for you on that side of that base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After things got arranged right, yes. Took a while to get everything set up, but it was a lot nicer. Had more room and could work inside the hangar in the hot summer days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it air-conditioned?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:180", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.3791134574433785, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "New hangar."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it more convenient for you on that side of that base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After things got arranged right, yes. Took a while to get everything set up, but it was a lot nicer. Had more room and could work inside the hangar in the hot summer days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it air-conditioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what we’ve heard, the new building was air-conditioned, the main building."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:182", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.976792730492643, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After things got arranged right, yes. Took a while to get everything set up, but it was a lot nicer. Had more room and could work inside the hangar in the hot summer days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it air-conditioned?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what we’ve heard, the new building was air-conditioned, the main building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one, yes. I think even some of the hangars are air-conditioned now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot different than when you were there, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:184", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.378756457398324, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "From what we’ve heard, the new building was air-conditioned, the main building."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one, yes. I think even some of the hangars are air-conditioned now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot different than when you were there, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Freezing cold in the winter too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in the early years there weren’t very many people on the base, and the numbers started growing. But one of the things that we’ve heard other people talk about is the social groups and the athletic groups that would get together and do things. Did either of you or both of you participate in any of the social events or any of those type of things?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:186", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 5.9763960637759155, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The new one, yes. I think even some of the hangars are air-conditioned now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot different than when you were there, right?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Freezing cold in the winter too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in the early years there weren’t very many people on the base, and the numbers started growing. But one of the things that we’ve heard other people talk about is the social groups and the athletic groups that would get together and do things. Did either of you or both of you participate in any of the social events or any of those type of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to parties, didn’t we?\n\nYes, but it was NACA, and we went even to NACA reunions afterwards. We went to nearly everything, but we didn’t belong to the baseball team. He was on the bowling team. WONASA was the Women of NASA. I was the historian for that. And then I passed it on to somebody else. I don’t have any of that material, it was passed on through. There were I don’t know how many of us. Not a whole lot when we started. But I was busy with five little ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine you were. Do you remember when that was formed?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:188", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.529328959751017, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Freezing cold in the winter too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Especially in the early years there weren’t very many people on the base, and the numbers started growing. But one of the things that we’ve heard other people talk about is the social groups and the athletic groups that would get together and do things. Did either of you or both of you participate in any of the social events or any of those type of things?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to parties, didn’t we?\n\nYes, but it was NACA, and we went even to NACA reunions afterwards. We went to nearly everything, but we didn’t belong to the baseball team. He was on the bowling team. WONASA was the Women of NASA. I was the historian for that. And then I passed it on to somebody else. I don’t have any of that material, it was passed on through. There were I don’t know how many of us. Not a whole lot when we started. But I was busy with five little ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine you were. Do you remember when that was formed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, well, it was right after it was NASA. Maybe a year afterwards. And then that included the mechanics’ wives then, and the engineering wives. That included all of them. As time went on, that sort of divided up. Then I wasn’t in it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The NACA was more of a family and it was a different way of doing things. Then as the years went on in NASA, it changed things as far as the way people related."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:190", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.810365510834463, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to parties, didn’t we?\n\nYes, but it was NACA, and we went even to NACA reunions afterwards. We went to nearly everything, but we didn’t belong to the baseball team. He was on the bowling team. WONASA was the Women of NASA. I was the historian for that. And then I passed it on to somebody else. I don’t have any of that material, it was passed on through. There were I don’t know how many of us. Not a whole lot when we started. But I was busy with five little ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I could imagine you were. Do you remember when that was formed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, well, it was right after it was NASA. Maybe a year afterwards. And then that included the mechanics’ wives then, and the engineering wives. That included all of them. As time went on, that sort of divided up. Then I wasn’t in it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The NACA was more of a family and it was a different way of doing things. Then as the years went on in NASA, it changed things as far as the way people related."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to the Halloween parties, the Christmas parties. We got a babysitter, and we went to all those things, and it was fun, and we dressed up. It was more family. Then also when it was first NASA, in the summertime they would have family picnics, and we would go someplace and the little ones all came. But it was family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s nice that it was.\\n\\n I was wondering about technology changes. You said you had to supply your own hand-tools when you first started. Then of course technology between ’51 and ’85 when you left, there were a lot of changes that happened and took place. Can you talk about that? Or was there anything specific that you can remember that really was different from the time you started to when you retired?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.1226283453716257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Let’s see, well, it was right after it was NASA. Maybe a year afterwards. And then that included the mechanics’ wives then, and the engineering wives. That included all of them. As time went on, that sort of divided up. Then I wasn’t in it anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The NACA was more of a family and it was a different way of doing things. Then as the years went on in NASA, it changed things as far as the way people related."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to the Halloween parties, the Christmas parties. We got a babysitter, and we went to all those things, and it was fun, and we dressed up. It was more family. Then also when it was first NASA, in the summertime they would have family picnics, and we would go someplace and the little ones all came. But it was family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s nice that it was.\\n\\n I was wondering about technology changes. You said you had to supply your own hand-tools when you first started. Then of course technology between ’51 and ’85 when you left, there were a lot of changes that happened and took place. Can you talk about that? Or was there anything specific that you can remember that really was different from the time you started to when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so you really didn’t pay much attention to it. You just went with the flow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So whatever was available, that’s what you learned to use and work with?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.4695870504129176, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went to the Halloween parties, the Christmas parties. We got a babysitter, and we went to all those things, and it was fun, and we dressed up. It was more family. Then also when it was first NASA, in the summertime they would have family picnics, and we would go someplace and the little ones all came. But it was family."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, that’s nice that it was.\\n\\n I was wondering about technology changes. You said you had to supply your own hand-tools when you first started. Then of course technology between ’51 and ’85 when you left, there were a lot of changes that happened and took place. Can you talk about that? Or was there anything specific that you can remember that really was different from the time you started to when you retired?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so you really didn’t pay much attention to it. You just went with the flow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So whatever was available, that’s what you learned to use and work with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would computers make a big difference, when the airplanes became more computerized?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:197", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.283440802978911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It happened so you really didn’t pay much attention to it. You just went with the flow."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So whatever was available, that’s what you learned to use and work with?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would computers make a big difference, when the airplanes became more computerized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Computers, yes. Everything is tested by computer now. We couldn’t fly airplanes without computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked through the second landing of the Shuttle? You worked through that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:199", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.7593786699765674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would computers make a big difference, when the airplanes became more computerized?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Computers, yes. Everything is tested by computer now. We couldn’t fly airplanes without computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked through the second landing of the Shuttle? You worked through that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I retired after that.\n\nAfter the second landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those first programs you worked on were somewhat secret, and people didn’t know that the X-15 was flying. Then when the Shuttle came along, all of a sudden you have a lot of people showing up, and people from the media, and people that just wanted to watch. How was that? That was quite a change for the people that were working out there, I would imagine."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:201", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.288198522196186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Computers, yes. Everything is tested by computer now. We couldn’t fly airplanes without computers."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you worked through the second landing of the Shuttle? You worked through that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I retired after that.\n\nAfter the second landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those first programs you worked on were somewhat secret, and people didn’t know that the X-15 was flying. Then when the Shuttle came along, all of a sudden you have a lot of people showing up, and people from the media, and people that just wanted to watch. How was that? That was quite a change for the people that were working out there, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Out at the base whenever a Shuttle landed there’d be cars up on the hill parked watching the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out and watch any of the landings too?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.87577613577354, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think I retired after that.\n\nAfter the second landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those first programs you worked on were somewhat secret, and people didn’t know that the X-15 was flying. Then when the Shuttle came along, all of a sudden you have a lot of people showing up, and people from the media, and people that just wanted to watch. How was that? That was quite a change for the people that were working out there, I would imagine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Out at the base whenever a Shuttle landed there’d be cars up on the hill parked watching the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out and watch any of the landings too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I watched them from the runway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids get to see them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:206", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.528640150859489, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Out at the base whenever a Shuttle landed there’d be cars up on the hill parked watching the landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you go out and watch any of the landings too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I watched them from the runway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids get to see them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was impressive for them.\n\nYou could actually take them out and show them some of the work that you did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:208", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 5.590913766493196, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I watched them from the runway."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your kids get to see them?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was impressive for them.\n\nYou could actually take them out and show them some of the work that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And grandchildren later. Prince Charles [Prince of Wales] from England came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was going to ask, if there were any dignitaries that you remember coming out."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:210", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.9899041849924393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet that was impressive for them.\n\nYou could actually take them out and show them some of the work that you did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And grandchildren later. Prince Charles [Prince of Wales] from England came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was going to ask, if there were any dignitaries that you remember coming out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, many.\n\nLBJ [President Lyndon B. Johnson] was there one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:213", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.4332268722138215, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And grandchildren later. Prince Charles [Prince of Wales] from England came."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s what I was going to ask, if there were any dignitaries that you remember coming out."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, many.\n\nLBJ [President Lyndon B. Johnson] was there one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He talked to us. I guess he shook everybody’s hand, he was a friendly guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a hand shaker.\n\nYou said Prince Charles came."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.925807635793135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, many.\n\nLBJ [President Lyndon B. Johnson] was there one time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you meet him?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He talked to us. I guess he shook everybody’s hand, he was a friendly guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a hand shaker.\n\nYou said Prince Charles came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people showed up when things got exciting I guess."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:218", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 5.473119595325706, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He talked to us. I guess he shook everybody’s hand, he was a friendly guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He was a hand shaker.\n\nYou said Prince Charles came."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people showed up when things got exciting I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became I’m sure very close friends with your coworkers, but also were you close friends with the pilots of those planes that you maintained?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.081243994806339, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of people showed up when things got exciting I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became I’m sure very close friends with your coworkers, but also were you close friends with the pilots of those planes that you maintained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they talk to you sometimes about when they heard something with the plane?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:223", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 6.756937772007044, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You became I’m sure very close friends with your coworkers, but also were you close friends with the pilots of those planes that you maintained?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they talk to you sometimes about when they heard something with the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. After each flight landing we’d sit down by the airplane and they’d tell us what they experienced and what they thought we should look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach them how to listen to different parts of the plane? Did pilots think that they were mechanics?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:225", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.5077086355633815, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did they talk to you sometimes about when they heard something with the plane?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. After each flight landing we’d sit down by the airplane and they’d tell us what they experienced and what they thought we should look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach them how to listen to different parts of the plane? Did pilots think that they were mechanics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, most of them were really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they have that personality where they know, but that’s good that you could talk in the same language, that you knew what they were looking for.\n\nYou mentioned that the X-15, you enjoyed that program. Of all the planes that you worked on, which one would you say was your favorite? Would it be the X-15?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:227", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.341898483959312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. After each flight landing we’d sit down by the airplane and they’d tell us what they experienced and what they thought we should look at."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you teach them how to listen to different parts of the plane? Did pilots think that they were mechanics?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, most of them were really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they have that personality where they know, but that’s good that you could talk in the same language, that you knew what they were looking for.\n\nYou mentioned that the X-15, you enjoyed that program. Of all the planes that you worked on, which one would you say was your favorite? Would it be the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was the most interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the most ugly would be the LLRV. Was that the most ugly?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:229", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.268776093288125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, most of them were really."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sometimes they have that personality where they know, but that’s good that you could talk in the same language, that you knew what they were looking for.\n\nYou mentioned that the X-15, you enjoyed that program. Of all the planes that you worked on, which one would you say was your favorite? Would it be the X-15?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was the most interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the most ugly would be the LLRV. Was that the most ugly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a bedframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it has no personality, does it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:232", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 10.298640103653472, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. It was the most interesting."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess the most ugly would be the LLRV. Was that the most ugly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a bedframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it has no personality, does it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made a lot of noise, and a lot of dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand the astronauts who used it said it was what helped them so much when they were landing, knowing that they had used that research vehicle.\\n\\n Were there some other thoughts that you might have that you can remember during his career that you’d like to share with us?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:234", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 10.331822337392747, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like a bedframe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it has no personality, does it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made a lot of noise, and a lot of dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand the astronauts who used it said it was what helped them so much when they were landing, knowing that they had used that research vehicle.\\n\\n Were there some other thoughts that you might have that you can remember during his career that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he went to college. Even after that he took evening classes and promoted himself on up, able to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that here? Was it close to the base?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:236", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 14.110014288798702, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Made a lot of noise, and a lot of dirt."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand the astronauts who used it said it was what helped them so much when they were landing, knowing that they had used that research vehicle.\\n\\n Were there some other thoughts that you might have that you can remember during his career that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, he went to college. Even after that he took evening classes and promoted himself on up, able to go on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that here? Was it close to the base?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lancaster Junior College. Back then I think they gave more, because there wasn’t a four year college there. He took a lot of math, and he took more electronics, because the classes were what he needed. And I think they were giving classes then that they knew they needed. He took advantage of everything he could."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s great. And did you all stay in Mojave, or did you all move?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:248", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 7.581323, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s why we’re here. We can go back and forth, which is really nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is nice, especially when you think about starting out where you did, sweeping dirt out of a bathtub. A lot of sand. Is there some other thoughts that you have about when you were working that you’d like to share with us?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s about all the important things I can think about.\n\nWhen he retired they wanted him to come back to work on a helicopter project. It was really a big thing at the time.\n\nI had other things to do.\n\nHe had other things to do. We started building houses and selling one a year. But he had had a bleeding ulcer, and he had a heart problem. That’s why he didn’t go back. But they even called me and asked me to try to talk him into coming back to work. Now, see, Charlie [Charles N.] Baker went back to work after he retired, and a lot of them did, like Terry [J.] Larson was an engineer. But Cecil didn’t. Probably why he’s 88 going on almost 89 now, is he retired when he did, because it was a very stressful job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine, and dangerous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his heart problem has gone away, and he hasn’t had another ulcer surgery. He’s going on to 89 now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoy some life."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:250", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 6.2014700000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that’s about all the important things I can think about.\n\nWhen he retired they wanted him to come back to work on a helicopter project. It was really a big thing at the time.\n\nI had other things to do.\n\nHe had other things to do. We started building houses and selling one a year. But he had had a bleeding ulcer, and he had a heart problem. That’s why he didn’t go back. But they even called me and asked me to try to talk him into coming back to work. Now, see, Charlie [Charles N.] Baker went back to work after he retired, and a lot of them did, like Terry [J.] Larson was an engineer. But Cecil didn’t. Probably why he’s 88 going on almost 89 now, is he retired when he did, because it was a very stressful job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I can imagine, and dangerous."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his heart problem has gone away, and he hasn’t had another ulcer surgery. He’s going on to 89 now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoy some life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did. We had a motor home, we traveled to Alaska, Canada, we traveled. After we got our kids educated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couldn’t go as fast as that X-15, but you got there, didn’t you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:255", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.6683, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And his heart problem has gone away, and he hasn’t had another ulcer surgery. He’s going on to 89 now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Enjoy some life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did. We had a motor home, we traveled to Alaska, Canada, we traveled. After we got our kids educated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couldn’t go as fast as that X-15, but you got there, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good life. Of course the people in Kansas, we were the only ones in California. They kept thinking we’d move home, we wouldn’t last three months. We’ve lasted 65 years. We’ve been married that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you married when you came to California?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:257", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we did. We had a motor home, we traveled to Alaska, Canada, we traveled. After we got our kids educated."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Couldn’t go as fast as that X-15, but you got there, didn’t you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good life. Of course the people in Kansas, we were the only ones in California. They kept thinking we’d move home, we wouldn’t last three months. We’ve lasted 65 years. We’ve been married that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you married when you came to California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kids at that time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:259", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good life. Of course the people in Kansas, we were the only ones in California. They kept thinking we’d move home, we wouldn’t last three months. We’ve lasted 65 years. We’ve been married that long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you married when you came to California?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kids at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we were newlyweds, we lived in student housing in San Pedro, California, and Torrance wasn’t very far. And I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. I had been a legal secretary before we got married, and so I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. And then in those days when you got pregnant you didn’t work anymore. They didn’t allow that. It wasn’t long until we had our first one and I had to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting you started out in Hawthorne because that’s the home of SpaceX. I find that very interesting that you were there at the Northrop Institute in Hawthorne, and I believe it’s one of Northrop’s old buildings where SpaceX has its home."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:261", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we were."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have any kids at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we were newlyweds, we lived in student housing in San Pedro, California, and Torrance wasn’t very far. And I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. I had been a legal secretary before we got married, and so I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. And then in those days when you got pregnant you didn’t work anymore. They didn’t allow that. It wasn’t long until we had our first one and I had to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting you started out in Hawthorne because that’s the home of SpaceX. I find that very interesting that you were there at the Northrop Institute in Hawthorne, and I believe it’s one of Northrop’s old buildings where SpaceX has its home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a number of people that went to school there that went to work for NACA or NASA.\n\nIt’s a big school now.\n\nYes, Joe [Joseph D.] Huxman, he’s passed away now. They lived in Kansas, but they were our neighbors for 30 some years. There were a number of them that went to Northrop that went to work out there. They were all good people. My gosh, they were mostly Second World War [veterans]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for an opportunity, weren’t they?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00949:263", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, we were newlyweds, we lived in student housing in San Pedro, California, and Torrance wasn’t very far. And I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. I had been a legal secretary before we got married, and so I went to work for Pittsburgh Paint. And then in those days when you got pregnant you didn’t work anymore. They didn’t allow that. It wasn’t long until we had our first one and I had to quit."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s interesting you started out in Hawthorne because that’s the home of SpaceX. I find that very interesting that you were there at the Northrop Institute in Hawthorne, and I believe it’s one of Northrop’s old buildings where SpaceX has its home."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There were a number of people that went to school there that went to work for NACA or NASA.\n\nIt’s a big school now.\n\nYes, Joe [Joseph D.] Huxman, he’s passed away now. They lived in Kansas, but they were our neighbors for 30 some years. There were a number of them that went to Northrop that went to work out there. They were all good people. My gosh, they were mostly Second World War [veterans]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking for an opportunity, weren’t they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were so glad to have a job. It was just some of the wives that came when we were living on the deactivated Marine base—and at that time, the wild burros just roamed between the barracks—and they cried. They didn’t like it. I was just so glad we had a job. I was so glad we had a job that he really liked. That’s very important for your husband to like his job. NACA and NASA was a good thing for us. Very very good thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we thank you for sharing those thoughts and memories with us this morning."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 25.002723261557996, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I would provide answers to these people too. I’d work with J. R. and ask him questions [about] making technical decisions, evaluating as much as anything the Rocketdyne people. We changed some management people at Rocketdyne. We were talking to Rocketdyne. We went through Rocketdyne corporate office to make changes at Rocketdyne, as we did with Martin in the external tank."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me a little bit about the testing program for the main engines. What are your recollections of those events at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I witnessed a few engines blow up. We did most of the engine testing down at NSTL [National Space Technology Laboratories, later renamed Stennis], and we would have a group of people down there. First half, we would go through a test readiness review with Rocketdyne on each of the engine tests. They had some very good test people down there who later worked in development. We had our druthers, but we were very happy when we got a good test. It was a struggle I guess you’d have to say. I used to say when we’d have a test that we’d have a little problem, the engineers would start working on the problem, then by the time we got back to Rocketdyne they’d already figured out what we were going to do next, how we were going to fix it. We didn’t know how to fix it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there ever a point where you thought that maybe this fantastic wonderful engine might not work and might not be ready for the first flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We didn’t say it was ready till we thought it was ready. We had enough testing for the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you determine that it was ready for that first flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 18.294506700465703, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just work with them, try to help them. Most any manager tries, regardless [of] what they’re managing, to build a team to work together. You try to help them. You don’t really direct these people. Some people may think being a manager is direction, but you’re really there to provide the resources to help them and help their relationship with the next level. We’d try to protect our managers, often giving them the resources to evaluate their people, and giving them new people, different people. You do a certain amount of things, rewarding them the best you can. In government, [there’s] less chance for reward. You select managers first, that’s your first job, then you help them get a chief engineer. Works pretty good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about your work on the solid rocket booster [SRB] and solid rocket motor [SRM] when you were manager of the Shuttle Program Office."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was much the same. We had two failures. One was the nozzle almost burned out on one flight. We struggled with a solution to that. George Hardy and I went out to Thiokol. I lived at Thiokol for about a month while they worked that problem. And we’ve done the same thing with J. R., a couple of us at Rocketdyne, the chief engineer also. We believed very much in getting our technical and our management team on site to really work close, know what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell me the difference between the project manager and a chief engineer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They’re entirely different jobs. They work as a pair really, but in the end the manager makes the decision. Chief engineer provides his evaluation, and he overviews the total program. The manager, at management level or a looser level, he makes the decision. Many times his decision is based on what the chief engineer says, what he recommends. The chief engineer also brings the resources of our engineering organization to bear on the programs. He manages all the engineers [and provides an] engineer support level."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little more about the testing program or the qualification of the SRBs and SRMs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.642137937, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things went pretty smoothly compared to the main engines?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if you’d say they were smooth. We had a lot of problems with the tank. Not so much in the testing, we had a very extensive test program on the structural testing on the external tank. The idea was if we would really do a good job testing then we’d know all the load situations. When it comes to redesigning the external tank, which eventually we had to do, we’d know what’s going to happen.\\n\\n The solid rocket motor we didn’t have as much. We had some test cases, primarily some insulation problems. We had some nozzle problems. They were not technology problems; it was getting it done correctly. In most cases size affected that, whether it be in the tooling, how you put it together, or whether you’re putting insulation on the inside. Again it was the nozzle primarily. We really had very good luck with the propellant at Thiokol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What role did you play in the decision to build the lightweight tank?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not even out there. I had retired before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the decision not to paint the tank white? Were you involved in that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.04681993, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know if you’d say they were smooth. We had a lot of problems with the tank. Not so much in the testing, we had a very extensive test program on the structural testing on the external tank. The idea was if we would really do a good job testing then we’d know all the load situations. When it comes to redesigning the external tank, which eventually we had to do, we’d know what’s going to happen.\\n\\n The solid rocket motor we didn’t have as much. We had some test cases, primarily some insulation problems. We had some nozzle problems. They were not technology problems; it was getting it done correctly. In most cases size affected that, whether it be in the tooling, how you put it together, or whether you’re putting insulation on the inside. Again it was the nozzle primarily. We really had very good luck with the propellant at Thiokol."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What role did you play in the decision to build the lightweight tank?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not even out there. I had retired before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the decision not to paint the tank white? Were you involved in that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that was before the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.6075777, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was not even out there. I had retired before that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about the decision not to paint the tank white? Were you involved in that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that was before the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took the paint off to save the weight. Initially designed was white paint, then we just made it that muddy color."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in that decision at all?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 17.341753, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I think that was before the first flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that decision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took the paint off to save the weight. Initially designed was white paint, then we just made it that muddy color."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in that decision at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought I would ask you just a couple questions about management. Were there any decisions that were made by the [NASA] Management Council that impacted the elements that you oversaw?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.82417, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We took the paint off to save the weight. Initially designed was white paint, then we just made it that muddy color."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you involved in that decision at all?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought I would ask you just a couple questions about management. Were there any decisions that were made by the [NASA] Management Council that impacted the elements that you oversaw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of the program decisions at that level were made by Yardley. I’m sure the Management Council, which was the Center Directors, were involved and made decisions for their own programs, but I don’t know if they were specifically Council decisions. They basically overviewed the program, they made certain funding decisions. Basically the program in those early years was in the hands of John Yardley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about your relationship with him and working with him on these components?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 16.4713, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m sure I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I thought I would ask you just a couple questions about management. Were there any decisions that were made by the [NASA] Management Council that impacted the elements that you oversaw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of the program decisions at that level were made by Yardley. I’m sure the Management Council, which was the Center Directors, were involved and made decisions for their own programs, but I don’t know if they were specifically Council decisions. They basically overviewed the program, they made certain funding decisions. Basically the program in those early years was in the hands of John Yardley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about your relationship with him and working with him on these components?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good relationship with John. He wanted you to keep him informed, and he expected you to call him if something was wrong or something wasn’t right. I had a good relationship with John. He was a good guy; I think he made friends with everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your relationship with Bill [William R.] Lucas [Marshall Center Director]? How did that work when you were manager of the Shuttle Program Office, and he was overseeing the site?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.857, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think most of the program decisions at that level were made by Yardley. I’m sure the Management Council, which was the Center Directors, were involved and made decisions for their own programs, but I don’t know if they were specifically Council decisions. They basically overviewed the program, they made certain funding decisions. Basically the program in those early years was in the hands of John Yardley."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you tell us about your relationship with him and working with him on these components?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a good relationship with John. He wanted you to keep him informed, and he expected you to call him if something was wrong or something wasn’t right. I had a good relationship with John. He was a good guy; I think he made friends with everyone."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about your relationship with Bill [William R.] Lucas [Marshall Center Director]? How did that work when you were manager of the Shuttle Program Office, and he was overseeing the site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a good relationship with Bill. We had worked together in materials, and we’d been friends for many years. He was a good strong technical [engineer]. I think we had a good relationship with all our contractors; we had a good relationship with JSC. Although some people don’t believe that, we had a good relationship with them, with KSC. We had a good relationship with Headquarters. All in all everybody tried to help each other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I read somewhere that you were in charge of 20 Shuttle missions when you were the Shuttle program manager. Would you tell us about the role that you played when missions were getting ready and when they were in flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We really hadn’t worked it a great deal. The issue really was we didn’t realize that a piece of foam, which was pretty lightweight, would hurt the orbiter. We assumed that much of the damage on the orbiter was due to stones and rocks out at Edwards [Air Force Base, California] and also down at Kennedy, that a lot of the damage we saw was just dirt. We didn’t really have any damage on the tank to my recollection that would indicate some loss of tile such that we’d overheat the thermal structure of the orbiter.\\n\\n We didn’t really consider, at least when I was still there—we had some come off after first tanking test. It was an integration question primarily; it was a question between ourselves and the orbiter. We never put the two together, that it would cause damage or catastrophic failure. I don’t know exactly why. I’ve never gone back and looked at the testing of it, but basically an integration question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Are there any other technical issues with the various components or issues about testing that we might not have covered that you thought we should discuss?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was pretty thorough. I think you’ll find many of the issues, much like the external tank foam with the orbiter flight, was an integration issue. To some extent I think some of the other issues they had with the solid rocket motors coming off would have been an integration issue. The two big issues were the orbiter brick or the TPS [thermal protection system] and the engine. They were the two controlling problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think your biggest challenge was while working as manager of the Shuttle Program Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just pulling everything together. The total program was a big issue. I worked hard on the engine. We may have to change people; sometimes changing people is not a lot of fun. Just keeping abreast of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to pick one greatest accomplishment while you were the program manager, what do you think that that would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00733:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it was pretty thorough. I think you’ll find many of the issues, much like the external tank foam with the orbiter flight, was an integration issue. To some extent I think some of the other issues they had with the solid rocket motors coming off would have been an integration issue. The two big issues were the orbiter brick or the TPS [thermal protection system] and the engine. They were the two controlling problems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think your biggest challenge was while working as manager of the Shuttle Program Office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just pulling everything together. The total program was a big issue. I worked hard on the engine. We may have to change people; sometimes changing people is not a lot of fun. Just keeping abreast of what’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to pick one greatest accomplishment while you were the program manager, what do you think that that would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting the team pulled together and getting that job done. We made some good management decisions. We changed some people in some of the contractors. They were tough decisions to make—you really can’t consider that an accomplishment. Just getting the whole team to work together, getting it all done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Rebecca, do you have any questions for Mr. Lindstrom?\n\nI think he’s covered it all very well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00776:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 31.43747377354143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By the time I was there, I think, it had improved dramatically. There were quite a few stores in Star City itself, and they were privately owned, and the food -I mean, it wasn't like going into a supermarket here, but you could pretty much get whatever you needed to get by, and then if we needed to go into Moscow, we could go on the weekends. Moscow's like any other big city. You can buy anything in Moscow. It's a little expensive. It's probably like shopping in New York City, those kind of prices, but Moscow's great. You can get anything you need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you able to bring any of your family members over?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "My wife came over to visit. We made a decision that we would treat it more like an employment, and I would go over, and she would come and visit me when she could, and I actually got to come back for Christmas and the holidays. I think, in retrospect, it was difficult, but it was, for me, probably the right thing to do. You tend to work some pretty long hours over there, and it was easier for me to separate the two so I could work whatever hours were required and not really have to worry about the family side of life. Also it was kind of comforting knowing that she was back here taking care of everything. We didn't have to worry about getting someone to rent our house while we were gone, what are we going to do with the house, who's going to take care of it or watch it for us. So she was kind of handling things back here, and that was a nice kind of burden I didn't have to think about."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk a little bit about the Russian language and how that affected your job over there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Russian language."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that hard to overcome?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00776:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 16, "return_to_go": 30.195814317240405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually, I got to the point where I could -you know, speaking off the cuff is hard enough. So, speaking off the cuff in another language is tough. If I had about five or ten minutes to think about what I wanted to say, then I could think about what I wanted to say and I could think about how to say it in Russian, and I'd be okay. I just needed about five or ten minutes to sit down and -and by the end, you know, I could just say I want to say this and then think about how to say it in Russian, but I just couldn't just stand up and do it all real time. That was pretty hard."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "These social gatherings, would there be like an order, you knew you were going to be second or third or -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it was more social. It just depended on where you were standing and how things were going. They were a lot of fun. You get put in that position, actually, quite a bit. I know Jim Halsell is over there now, and he's going through the same thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the stories we heard was that the Russians like to sing at some of these parties, and you're expected to know a song in English and sing it. Have you ever run across a time when you had to -"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We had a big Halloween party when I was there. The Two, Three, and Four crews were there. Susan and Carl are both members of MAXQ, the band. I don't know if you've ever heard of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I've heard of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00776:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.030352564000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. He did his Elvis thing, and, of course, all the women thought that was terrific. That was a really good party. I think they had another one like that since I left. I think it was when Ken Cockrell was over for a visit, I think they had another of that kind of party. But it was great. Everybody said it was the best party they had been to in Star City."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We got to talk with General [Yuri] Glaskov when we were down in Florida. He seemed to share some really good stories about the experience of having the Americans over there. Were you able to work with him at all while you were over there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I know General Glaskov very well. I never felt bad about just stopping by his office unannounced and just walking in and saying hi or if I had a problem. If we had a problem that we couldn't resolve, then we had to take it to him. He was always willing to listen to our side of it and what our position was. He's a really terrific guy. I hope he can stay in that position forever. It probably won't happen, but he's a good guy to have over there, a good friend of ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seemed to really enjoy the Phase 1 Program and was looking forward to the Phase 2 Program. It sounds like in Star City it's really going well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say was the most memorable experience that you have through the Phase 1 program, whether it was your flight or the DOR job?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00776:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.922613960000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. I know General Glaskov very well. I never felt bad about just stopping by his office unannounced and just walking in and saying hi or if I had a problem. If we had a problem that we couldn't resolve, then we had to take it to him. He was always willing to listen to our side of it and what our position was. He's a really terrific guy. I hope he can stay in that position forever. It probably won't happen, but he's a good guy to have over there, a good friend of ours."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "He seemed to really enjoy the Phase 1 Program and was looking forward to the Phase 2 Program. It sounds like in Star City it's really going well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say was the most memorable experience that you have through the Phase 1 program, whether it was your flight or the DOR job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's tough. I think probably the most memorable parts of it for me are when I get a chance to see somebody after they've been on Mir, either John on orbit when he came off and came over into the Shuttle, or the other day I saw Andy for the first time. Andy and I were over in Star City together, and as he had issues that came up in his training that he wanted resolved, you know, he would come to me or somebody in the DOR organization to try to get those things resolved. I think it's when you see these crew members after they come back, you know, seeing Dave after he came back, and Mike, I think that's probably, to me, the part that I'll probably remember the most about Phase 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does the future hold for you as far as follow along jobs that are related, or have you been assigned another flight yet?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00776:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.802904400000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What would you say was the most memorable experience that you have through the Phase 1 program, whether it was your flight or the DOR job?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's tough. I think probably the most memorable parts of it for me are when I get a chance to see somebody after they've been on Mir, either John on orbit when he came off and came over into the Shuttle, or the other day I saw Andy for the first time. Andy and I were over in Star City together, and as he had issues that came up in his training that he wanted resolved, you know, he would come to me or somebody in the DOR organization to try to get those things resolved. I think it's when you see these crew members after they come back, you know, seeing Dave after he came back, and Mike, I think that's probably, to me, the part that I'll probably remember the most about Phase 1."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What does the future hold for you as far as follow along jobs that are related, or have you been assigned another flight yet?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I haven't been assigned to another flight. I'm still continuing to work on a lot of the same type of issues that I worked on when I was the DOR. That's why I said, that flight, the one on STS-81, kind of started me down sort of a road of being involved in Phase 1 and Phase 2, and I'm continuing to work a lot of Phase 2 issues, station issues, especially those that deal with RSA and the Russians. You know, you make the contacts, you make the personal relationships over there. So it makes sense to try to continue to use those things when a DOR comes back. So I've actually maintained a lot of the same contacts with the Russians that I had when I was over there and actually made a few more, and eventually I hope to get assigned to one of the assembly flights here soon."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you focus on the training portion of it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00263:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 20.873191737388805, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I’m aware of it. I realize how it works. Once again, when you’re a representative aboard a ship, you have to know how it works, what to do about it, what are the intricacies of how it does operate, because the recovery crews may not be familiar with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s move on to Apollo 11. As you mentioned, there were four of you that volunteered to be part of the possible quarantine with the crews in those Apollo missions. Of course, for Apollo 11, you were chosen as the first one to go in with the crew. How did that come about that you got picked out of the four volunteers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t a matter of getting picked. You might say it’s the luck of the draw. We actually drew straws, and the short straw went in first. I just happened to draw the short straw. Literally, it’s, “Hey, how do we do this?” You know, everybody wanted to do it, because to be a part of an event like that, it’s just really great. But at the same time, I didn’t feel it would be appropriate to say, “Well, I’m going to be first,” because why should I be first? So we did that, we just drew straws."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you concerned before that? I know, as you mentioned, to be apart of this history, but were you concerned at all? I think I read that you had been married just prior to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you concerned about the possibilities of contamination, or did your group really take that seriously as a true concern?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00263:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.859101930432004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it wasn’t a matter of getting picked. You might say it’s the luck of the draw. We actually drew straws, and the short straw went in first. I just happened to draw the short straw. Literally, it’s, “Hey, how do we do this?” You know, everybody wanted to do it, because to be a part of an event like that, it’s just really great. But at the same time, I didn’t feel it would be appropriate to say, “Well, I’m going to be first,” because why should I be first? So we did that, we just drew straws."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you concerned before that? I know, as you mentioned, to be apart of this history, but were you concerned at all? I think I read that you had been married just prior to that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you concerned about the possibilities of contamination, or did your group really take that seriously as a true concern?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s interesting you ask that. The ICBC, National Academy of Science, was very concerned. That’s why we had all these constraints placed upon us, and that’s why we took what we thought were all possible measures without impacting the safety of the crew to ensure that we minimize the hazards. As ICBC stated, there is a potential back contamination from the lunar surface. Because of problems of importing pathogens from another environment, you had to take that concern seriously; therefore, we did everything we thought prudent to satisfy those concerns. About that time, there was a book out by Michael Crichton, and I read that book."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you if you read it. (laughter)"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00263:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 30.575552000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. That’s going to take awhile."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, that’s okay. Do you want to take a break first?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, why don’t we take a break?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay, okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because that gets quite involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All right.\\n\\n (pause)\n\nWhen we stopped we were going to start with your experiences on Apollo 11, so if you want to walk us through those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00263:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. In the LRL, we did have additional people accompany us. We had a PAO rep. I think we had some LRL support people already were preplanned to be on the side with the crew, just to facilitate food preparation and things like that. However, the rules that the ICBC put down were that if any person handling lunar sample became directly exposed to the lunar surface materials, they would have to be required to go in quarantine with the crew at the time of exposure. There were, I think, two incidents I recall. One was a glove tear. I forget what the other one was. But in each case, because they were working with lunar samples, quarantine was compromised with that individual. That individual had to go through a double-lock to the quarantine side, to the crew side of the quarantine facility, LRL. Once again, those were the conditions that we set procedurally up ahead of time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you’d already made arrangements in case something happened?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. So those procedures were already in place, and that was the protocol that you had to follow if there was a violation of quarantine or exposure to lunar surface material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bag that you brought in that had the rocks and the dirt and everything, you had that with you as well once you got to the LRL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I forget how we turned that over, but we carried it back with us in the quarantine facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had it been opened up while you were in the MQF?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00263:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right. So those procedures were already in place, and that was the protocol that you had to follow if there was a violation of quarantine or exposure to lunar surface material."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The bag that you brought in that had the rocks and the dirt and everything, you had that with you as well once you got to the LRL?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I forget how we turned that over, but we carried it back with us in the quarantine facility."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Had it been opened up while you were in the MQF?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Took a peek."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you did look a little. Well, if you want, it’s almost three o’clock and we talked about stopping about three. We can stop here and make arrangements for you to come back and we can talk about your experiences starting with Apollo 12, and if there’s anything we haven’t talked about Apollo 11 then we can talk about that then, if that’d be okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.672149952026583, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[When] we did thermal pathfinder here I think it really opened a lot of eyes as to what the thermal system was really like and just how much attention to detail it took.\\n\\n Everybody knows when something gets cold it gets smaller. When we put this large telescope with large space simulators and all this stuff together, before we put it in the chamber we had to go around. I think we made over 1,000 measurements of gaps that we had to monitor so they didn’t collide or they didn’t impact some function with the test that would throw the test. One of my guys has a spreadsheet, and I know there’s over 1,000 lines on it of all the gaps and all the interferences and things that we had to monitor. It’s just staggering. It was staggering, just the attention [to detail].\\n\\n You’re working with something that’s 10,000 pounds and 25 feet long. You have to set it and the things next to that—you can’t have a gap that’s larger than something, or you have a problem. It was the same with tensioning blankets and all kinds of things. Nothing could be done haphazard. Everything had to be thought out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it sounds like there was quite a bit of detail in everything. I know Conrad was telling me about the details he had to provide."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s just astounding to me, not being an engineer myself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about coming down here and having a captive audience because you’re here to work. What were your hours like when you would come down and work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 20.746833280029538, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, the details."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s just astounding to me, not being an engineer myself."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about coming down here and having a captive audience because you’re here to work. What were your hours like when you would come down and work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our base hours were six days, 10-hour days. Typically we’d work that. We did work a few weekends straight through where we needed. We did work some 11- and 12-hour days once in a while. I typically worked a little more than that just because I had to get ahead of everybody in the morning and clean up a little bit when they left. I had work to pay attention to here, but I also had my own business reports and other things to do. That stuff didn’t go away. I worked usually half days on Sundays. Most of the guys had Sundays off. They’d sleep in, they’d do their laundry. It was pretty much just get ready to go back to work Monday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started coming down here in 2010 what were your rotations like? How long would you stay down here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 16.38537031114393, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is. It is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You talked about coming down here and having a captive audience because you’re here to work. What were your hours like when you would come down and work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Our base hours were six days, 10-hour days. Typically we’d work that. We did work a few weekends straight through where we needed. We did work some 11- and 12-hour days once in a while. I typically worked a little more than that just because I had to get ahead of everybody in the morning and clean up a little bit when they left. I had work to pay attention to here, but I also had my own business reports and other things to do. That stuff didn’t go away. I worked usually half days on Sundays. Most of the guys had Sundays off. They’d sleep in, they’d do their laundry. It was pretty much just get ready to go back to work Monday."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you started coming down here in 2010 what were your rotations like? How long would you stay down here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In 2010, we were only coming down for meetings. We didn’t really deploy down here till late ’13. That’s when those kind of hours kicked in.\\n\\n Then it depended. Everybody had a little bit of a different rotation depending on their family life or demands back in Rochester. Some guys, once we got through design phases, moved to other programs so that when their hardware went into the chamber they’d come down for a month or something and then they’d go home. Other guys were more support that were on constant rotations.\\n\\n I did like three weeks down one week back for a long time. Then there was a period I went to like two and two. Then when we just finished here, I think I was down here like four, five months straight almost this last go-round. It was a long time. I went home a couple weekends. I’d fly home late Friday and fly back Monday morning sometimes, but you’d spend so much time in airports."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was just thinking that. You mentioned you can’t just directly fly from Rochester to Houston."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.387339247111015, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, it’s two planes each way. When we were getting done down here, there was so much heavy work getting done, I just felt I needed to be here just for safety.\\n\\n The optical system we had in the top of the chamber that had the large mirrors and the center of curvature system on it, we had to bring that down on three separate cranes. That thing weighed almost 20,000 pounds. I wanted that to come down really slow. Didn’t want anybody hurt. We had some disassembly to do just as it got to the bottom. We had some disassembly to do while it was still not quite set on its cart. It was just things like that.\\n\\n There were things that we put together. As I mentioned there was a suspension system. The top and the bottom was hung by titanium rods. There was a lot of joints, and those joints were put together and they sat there through I think six cryo cycles over a period of five years. It was questionable if they were going to come apart just because of the load on them and with the vacuum, whether or not the greases had migrated away, and whether or not we’d just get them apart.\\n\\n Potentially you could have had hourly issues. As it was, we didn’t have any, but there was a lot of reasons that I felt I needed to be here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you get your hardware down here? Were you trucking it down? Were you flying it down?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trucking it, yes. Actually when we left we just pulled it all out of here. I think we used, I’ve heard two stories, 16 and 20 40-footers, tractor trailers, to get it out of here. Then the big pieces are still sitting over there. A lot of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a lot more stuff than I realized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, it’s a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of stuff. God, I think we had 100 miles of cables in that chamber."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A hundred miles of cables."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 19.31926583012335, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Trucking it, yes. Actually when we left we just pulled it all out of here. I think we used, I’ve heard two stories, 16 and 20 40-footers, tractor trailers, to get it out of here. Then the big pieces are still sitting over there. A lot of stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That is a lot more stuff than I realized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, it’s a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of stuff. God, I think we had 100 miles of cables in that chamber."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A hundred miles of cables."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jonathan was telling me about the importance of keeping it sealed and keeping those temperatures. With all of that wiring, how do you actually keep something sealed up tight to maintain that 40 Kelvin temperature? Normally when you put a wire through something there’s got to be a hole. So how do you ensure there’s not a leak?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.354739811248166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, it’s a lot of stuff. It’s a lot of stuff. God, I think we had 100 miles of cables in that chamber."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A hundred miles of cables."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Jonathan was telling me about the importance of keeping it sealed and keeping those temperatures. With all of that wiring, how do you actually keep something sealed up tight to maintain that 40 Kelvin temperature? Normally when you put a wire through something there’s got to be a hole. So how do you ensure there’s not a leak?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are connectors that they put on chambers that they’re sealed. But the interesting thing is the cable is a huge thermal conductor. They have vacuum connectors, so the vacuum connector part is easy. The hard part or the tedious part was the thermals. We had to build in the back of the chamber—if you go in there it’s still there—there’s two shrouds. There’s a helium shroud and an LN2 [liquid] nitrogen shroud.\\n\\n Behind those shrouds we have aluminum shelving we built to actually run these cables on as conductors so the aluminum would conduct. They were foil-wrapped with thermal tapes to the shelves so that over the length that they traveled inside the helium shroud they would not be conducting any heat in.\\n\\n As I said there’s like 100 miles of cables we took out of there and put in there. We have pictures of them. I can’t even describe the pictures to you. You’d have to see them. It’s just like bookshelves of white cables. They have these things they call towel bars. When they had to jump to the next shroud you’d have a rod, and they’d just all be running across it like a waterfall. The cables had to be engineered.\\n\\n You had a thermal engineer working on how we’re going to handle these cables in there. Then we had a dynamics engineer working on how we actually created the loops, splayed them out, so that they wouldn’t disturb the telescope while they were plugged in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things that you don’t think about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.12930840894835, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "There are connectors that they put on chambers that they’re sealed. But the interesting thing is the cable is a huge thermal conductor. They have vacuum connectors, so the vacuum connector part is easy. The hard part or the tedious part was the thermals. We had to build in the back of the chamber—if you go in there it’s still there—there’s two shrouds. There’s a helium shroud and an LN2 [liquid] nitrogen shroud.\\n\\n Behind those shrouds we have aluminum shelving we built to actually run these cables on as conductors so the aluminum would conduct. They were foil-wrapped with thermal tapes to the shelves so that over the length that they traveled inside the helium shroud they would not be conducting any heat in.\\n\\n As I said there’s like 100 miles of cables we took out of there and put in there. We have pictures of them. I can’t even describe the pictures to you. You’d have to see them. It’s just like bookshelves of white cables. They have these things they call towel bars. When they had to jump to the next shroud you’d have a rod, and they’d just all be running across it like a waterfall. The cables had to be engineered.\\n\\n You had a thermal engineer working on how we’re going to handle these cables in there. Then we had a dynamics engineer working on how we actually created the loops, splayed them out, so that they wouldn’t disturb the telescope while they were plugged in."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Things that you don’t think about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the first test we did we found that—they weren’t splayed out and looped, we thought if we just draped them to the floor it’d be enough. But it was picking up the small motions off the floor. The floor like this was enough to disrupt the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All sorts of things that you learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to ask you about those tests. You had the OGSE [Optical Ground Support Equipment]-1 and 2. What was your role during those tests?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 23.477009343275945, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Because the first test we did we found that—they weren’t splayed out and looped, we thought if we just draped them to the floor it’d be enough. But it was picking up the small motions off the floor. The floor like this was enough to disrupt the test."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "All sorts of things that you learn."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did want to ask you about those tests. You had the OGSE [Optical Ground Support Equipment]-1 and 2. What was your role during those tests?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I mentioned Tony Whitman. Tony Whitman was my chief test engineer. When we were down here and I was orchestrating and managing getting hardware put in, Tony was working with Goddard to develop the test plans, test procedures. Then he would work with Goddard and Ball and the rest of the team to run the test.\\n\\n We kind of had swapping roles. Once we were ready with the test and then we had the test article in the chamber, I would go home. Tony would run the test. While we were home, we already knew a lot about what we had to do for the next test. There was engineering and design work that needed to get done. I’d go home and push that, get those things ready to go, so that when the test was over we could ship the next bunch of stuff down.\\n\\n That was kind of the way it worked. We never got to a point where there was nothing to do. You were always getting ready for the next test and every test built off itself. I think the test schedule held pretty well. Last-minute developments was a little bit of a hustle to get something changed to correct it for the next one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was wondering if you would talk about that. Were there things that you had to do on the fly during these tests? All of a sudden something flared up, and we need X?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.332350143343906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Actually when the test started I went back, and we just worked on the final set of paper. At that point I had started releasing people from the program. I kept the manufacturing engineers. They started working the paperwork to get it out of the chamber and close it down. There was a lot of work we had to do to actually take all the equipment out of the chamber.\\n\\n There was paperwork that had to get done. There were systems that had not been used in five years. We had to go back and see if they still worked. We had to get ready with load test plans and things like that, because the lifting equipment hadn’t been used since we put the stuff in. It was a whole raft of things we had to get organized and restart to do. It was not a quiet time; we were busy while they were down here testing.\\n\\n When the door opened it was like you were expected to be there with everything you needed to start work. That’s the kind of things we were doing. Then when the test did finish, I think when the door opened we didn’t get at it right away. We spent a month. They were trying to redo a couple anomalies they thought they saw, so we helped. We worked on that for a month before we actually got started taking the telescope out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How many people did you have working down here during the test for Harris?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "During the test? I’m going to say 15 actually on the test here. Probably had another half dozen dynamics engineers, optical engineers back in Rochester for support, and probably had another 10 or a dozen engineers working to get ready for the next phase. Then I had a program office, I got a finance person and a scheduling person and a business person."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Everything it takes to make the organization operate. Were there any major challenges that you had to face when the test was ongoing? Obviously you mentioned Harvey. Harvey was kind of a big deal."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Harvey was probably the toughest because we didn’t know where it was going. The [hurricane] got here and it parked. Do you live here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do actually. Yes, I live right outside the gates."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 16.953518695486302, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Harvey was probably the toughest because we didn’t know where it was going. The [hurricane] got here and it parked. Do you live here?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I do actually. Yes, I live right outside the gates."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were sending me pictures. They were using 30-gallon garbage cans as rain gauges. When one would fill up they’d put another one out next to it. They ended up with 55 inches. Just like a tape measure, they’re measuring. I had guys run to [a store]; they bought 25 air mattresses. … We were concerned. The test was going to be safe if all these things didn’t happen. You started looking on a regular basis. There were meetings after meeting after meeting as to how you manage the people going back and forth, as you heard, and how they’re getting fed, getting sleep, when’s the storm going to end, what’s the storm going to do next.\\n\\n My management in Rochester, of course, was concerned about our people down here. So hourly I’m getting e-mails or phone calls from a different manager from one place or another asking me, “What’s the status? Who’s who? How many people are there? Who are the people? How long have they been there? How much sleep?” All this human relations kind of stuff was going on.\\n\\n Our parent company, Harris, is in Melbourne, Florida, so they’re very familiar with hurricanes. They’ve got hurricane protocols, so their hurricane people were calling me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got no rest."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.83724299498478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you were here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were sending me pictures. They were using 30-gallon garbage cans as rain gauges. When one would fill up they’d put another one out next to it. They ended up with 55 inches. Just like a tape measure, they’re measuring. I had guys run to [a store]; they bought 25 air mattresses. … We were concerned. The test was going to be safe if all these things didn’t happen. You started looking on a regular basis. There were meetings after meeting after meeting as to how you manage the people going back and forth, as you heard, and how they’re getting fed, getting sleep, when’s the storm going to end, what’s the storm going to do next.\\n\\n My management in Rochester, of course, was concerned about our people down here. So hourly I’m getting e-mails or phone calls from a different manager from one place or another asking me, “What’s the status? Who’s who? How many people are there? Who are the people? How long have they been there? How much sleep?” All this human relations kind of stuff was going on.\\n\\n Our parent company, Harris, is in Melbourne, Florida, so they’re very familiar with hurricanes. They’ve got hurricane protocols, so their hurricane people were calling me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got no rest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to get ahold of guys down here, and phones aren’t working. They were lucky. The site was in the right place, I think. They were really lucky. Then some of them went out and helped do some aid work right after it ended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I understand that was a big push."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.930269994427533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were sending me pictures. They were using 30-gallon garbage cans as rain gauges. When one would fill up they’d put another one out next to it. They ended up with 55 inches. Just like a tape measure, they’re measuring. I had guys run to [a store]; they bought 25 air mattresses. … We were concerned. The test was going to be safe if all these things didn’t happen. You started looking on a regular basis. There were meetings after meeting after meeting as to how you manage the people going back and forth, as you heard, and how they’re getting fed, getting sleep, when’s the storm going to end, what’s the storm going to do next.\\n\\n My management in Rochester, of course, was concerned about our people down here. So hourly I’m getting e-mails or phone calls from a different manager from one place or another asking me, “What’s the status? Who’s who? How many people are there? Who are the people? How long have they been there? How much sleep?” All this human relations kind of stuff was going on.\\n\\n Our parent company, Harris, is in Melbourne, Florida, so they’re very familiar with hurricanes. They’ve got hurricane protocols, so their hurricane people were calling me all the time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You got no rest."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to get ahold of guys down here, and phones aren’t working. They were lucky. The site was in the right place, I think. They were really lucky. Then some of them went out and helped do some aid work right after it ended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I understand that was a big push."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your company send a plane? I understand some of the companies chartered planes."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.033633327141704, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m trying to get ahold of guys down here, and phones aren’t working. They were lucky. The site was in the right place, I think. They were really lucky. Then some of them went out and helped do some aid work right after it ended."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I understand that was a big push."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your company send a plane? I understand some of the companies chartered planes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a plane lined up to bring some people down. About the time it was going to become available we got a commercial airline, so we canceled it. Yes, they were working with Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] to bring a plane in, because we had people here so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were exhausted and ready to come home and get some relief."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 22.259592585713005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Which was nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did your company send a plane? I understand some of the companies chartered planes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a plane lined up to bring some people down. About the time it was going to become available we got a commercial airline, so we canceled it. Yes, they were working with Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] to bring a plane in, because we had people here so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were exhausted and ready to come home and get some relief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it got to be hard. Every time you looked outside it was just raining. …\\n\\n I told Goddard early on, I said the biggest threat down here was water. It’s just water. Whether the roof leaks, whether you lose a pipe, whether you do anything, you have so much electronics outside the chamber that water is the thing that will kill you the quickest. Luckily, over the years, there was enough provisions put in. They had shielding over the top of some of the cabinets. Some of them they put curtains around. They survived it. It was just luck.\\n\\n Could you test that telescope again for that many days with that storm and come out the same? I don’t know. I don’t want to find out. I’d just as soon sit on this success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily everything went well. That’s good. Have you been back since the test was done? Obviously you’re here today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.510658428570004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I had a plane lined up to bring some people down. About the time it was going to become available we got a commercial airline, so we canceled it. Yes, they were working with Ellington [Field, Houston, Texas] to bring a plane in, because we had people here so long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sure people were exhausted and ready to come home and get some relief."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it got to be hard. Every time you looked outside it was just raining. …\\n\\n I told Goddard early on, I said the biggest threat down here was water. It’s just water. Whether the roof leaks, whether you lose a pipe, whether you do anything, you have so much electronics outside the chamber that water is the thing that will kill you the quickest. Luckily, over the years, there was enough provisions put in. They had shielding over the top of some of the cabinets. Some of them they put curtains around. They survived it. It was just luck.\\n\\n Could you test that telescope again for that many days with that storm and come out the same? I don’t know. I don’t want to find out. I’d just as soon sit on this success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily everything went well. That’s good. Have you been back since the test was done? Obviously you’re here today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in June. June 15th I left here. I think just before the last truck left I left. This is my first trip back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine the SESL looks a little bit different without all your hardware."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 23.900731587300005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it got to be hard. Every time you looked outside it was just raining. …\\n\\n I told Goddard early on, I said the biggest threat down here was water. It’s just water. Whether the roof leaks, whether you lose a pipe, whether you do anything, you have so much electronics outside the chamber that water is the thing that will kill you the quickest. Luckily, over the years, there was enough provisions put in. They had shielding over the top of some of the cabinets. Some of them they put curtains around. They survived it. It was just luck.\\n\\n Could you test that telescope again for that many days with that storm and come out the same? I don’t know. I don’t want to find out. I’d just as soon sit on this success."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Luckily everything went well. That’s good. Have you been back since the test was done? Obviously you’re here today."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in June. June 15th I left here. I think just before the last truck left I left. This is my first trip back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine the SESL looks a little bit different without all your hardware."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Things feel different. I thought about driving down to [Building] 32 when I leave here and just seeing what’s going on down there. We are interested, if they do more work in that chamber, if they need any kind of work similar to what we did there, to do more work. We certainly know the place well now. We know the chamber well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s going to happen with all your hardware? You mentioned all the stuff that you brought down. Do you envision reusing that for other programs?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.223035097000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I left in June. June 15th I left here. I think just before the last truck left I left. This is my first trip back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine the SESL looks a little bit different without all your hardware."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Things feel different. I thought about driving down to [Building] 32 when I leave here and just seeing what’s going on down there. We are interested, if they do more work in that chamber, if they need any kind of work similar to what we did there, to do more work. We certainly know the place well now. We know the chamber well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s going to happen with all your hardware? You mentioned all the stuff that you brought down. Do you envision reusing that for other programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s all going to Goddard. It’s all government equipment. There’s a program up there they call WFIRST [Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I think Gary told me he’s working on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 25.803372330000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Things feel different. I thought about driving down to [Building] 32 when I leave here and just seeing what’s going on down there. We are interested, if they do more work in that chamber, if they need any kind of work similar to what we did there, to do more work. We certainly know the place well now. We know the chamber well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What’s going to happen with all your hardware? You mentioned all the stuff that you brought down. Do you envision reusing that for other programs?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s all going to Goddard. It’s all government equipment. There’s a program up there they call WFIRST [Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes. I think Gary told me he’s working on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Some of it may get used there, some of the optical equipment. The optical equipment is probably the only stuff. Some of the thermal telemetry equipment will be reused for sure. … These payloads are all very different, and it’s very hard to come up with infrastructure that’s just universal. … Like I mentioned, some of the big [hardware] is still here. I think it’s going to get excessed right out of Johnson because of the size of it. The optical stuff will probably get reused."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back, what do you think are some of the more important lessons learned during the test, or even as you started working on plans when you were one of the first two guys working on these concepts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 5.7, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "My greatest contribution. I think it would be just keeping things together and moving forward. I put a lot of time into pushing the schedule, pushing the lower detail of the schedule to like I said keep moving forward. It’s something you got to do every day. I use this term. I’m going to walk around and kick chairs. I’m not big on e-mail; I’m not big on phone calls. I like walking around seeing people, just keeping things going in the right direction. Trying to know something about everything that’s going on."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are you working on now? Are you still closing this out?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a tremendous amount of work to close a program out. By the time you make sure you’ve accounted for all the assets and materials that are left over, going through the government transfer process. We have to organize and maintain the records on the program for 15 years after launch, which right now is [2036]. Then we’ve also got to show the government that we’ve delivered everything that was in the contract. There are documents [that] you have to show that all those have been delivered or they’re available for delivery. There are literally thousands of those. I [probably had] five engineers working on just gathering all this [information]. We have a formal/informal technical document we have to write that summarizes the program. There are a number of things going on. That’s going to go on for a little while longer.\\n\\n We’re still running some support. We’ll probably run a little bit of low-level support through launch, probably be very low level, probably a couple people at the most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I’ve run through my list of questions. I always give people the opportunity to add any additional information or talk about something that they might have wanted to discuss. I wasn’t sure if there was anything you thought we haven’t covered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think you covered it pretty well. It’s really hot down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes. There’s lots of mosquitoes too."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 3.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It is a tremendous amount of work to close a program out. By the time you make sure you’ve accounted for all the assets and materials that are left over, going through the government transfer process. We have to organize and maintain the records on the program for 15 years after launch, which right now is [2036]. Then we’ve also got to show the government that we’ve delivered everything that was in the contract. There are documents [that] you have to show that all those have been delivered or they’re available for delivery. There are literally thousands of those. I [probably had] five engineers working on just gathering all this [information]. We have a formal/informal technical document we have to write that summarizes the program. There are a number of things going on. That’s going to go on for a little while longer.\\n\\n We’re still running some support. We’ll probably run a little bit of low-level support through launch, probably be very low level, probably a couple people at the most."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think I’ve run through my list of questions. I always give people the opportunity to add any additional information or talk about something that they might have wanted to discuss. I wasn’t sure if there was anything you thought we haven’t covered."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think you covered it pretty well. It’s really hot down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes. There’s lots of mosquitoes too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hot down here. Somebody made a comment one day that the Sun is only a mile from the Earth here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does seem like it some days."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00513:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I think you covered it pretty well. It’s really hot down here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It is, yes. There’s lots of mosquitoes too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s hot down here. Somebody made a comment one day that the Sun is only a mile from the Earth here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It does seem like it some days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. Overall I think everybody did enjoy the program quite a bit. Aside from being here for five years, people made a lot of friends amongst their coworkers in these other companies. It was interesting. There’s Northrop Grumman. There’s Ball. There’s a company called Genesis [Engineering Solutions]. There’s ATK. There’s Minus K. When everybody’s here we really did work together, because it was a common problem, common effort. It was not siloed. People got to know each other over the years. In that respect it was a very positive experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Definitely heard that from a lot of people. That this was a very complicated test, but things just went off really well. What do you attribute that to? The fact that things weren’t siloed, that things worked so well, people got along so well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.416128675429125, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I was born in a coal mining district in western Pennsylvania, moved to the Philadelphia area, went to high school there, a small high school. I was in golf, basketball, and miscellaneous sports. Not only lettered sports…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What about some significant events? Any significant about the high school years? The war was rolling up about that time, I guess."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I always knew, from about age five on, what I wanted to be, because my father flew in World War I. I used to put his uniform on as a little kid, and I decided I wanted to be in aviation. So I was sort of directed in high school. I had a lot of activities and all that, but I didn't flounder around as to what I wanted to do and be. That's sort of was the way I was in high school."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Where did you go right after high school?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a scholarship to Rensselaer Polytechnic, went there, took aeronautical engineering, met my wife, married her. Oh, I enlisted in the NROTC before Pearl Harbor. My father talked me into that. He said, \"There's going to be a war. You better get involved early.\" So I enlisted in September of '41, and Pearl Harbor was December of '41. And then I was pulled out in my junior year, because they had run short of ensigns, and assigned to the Saratoga."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As ship's company?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.43966503139398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a scholarship to Rensselaer Polytechnic, went there, took aeronautical engineering, met my wife, married her. Oh, I enlisted in the NROTC before Pearl Harbor. My father talked me into that. He said, \"There's going to be a war. You better get involved early.\" So I enlisted in September of '41, and Pearl Harbor was December of '41. And then I was pulled out in my junior year, because they had run short of ensigns, and assigned to the Saratoga."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As ship's company?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, I had a dual commission. I was aviation/deck. I worked the flight deck crews, and I also stood officer-of-the-deck watches on the bridge.\\n\\n I had met my wife before I was called up to active duty and married her on my first leave, married her in '45. We've been married for fifty-three years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Congratulations."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a long time, isn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A very long time, yes, sir. Well, tell me about the Saratoga. Was that basically the ship you served on for the whole time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.246500038757997, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's a long time, isn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A very long time, yes, sir. Well, tell me about the Saratoga. Was that basically the ship you served on for the whole time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I [boarded] in the Indian Ocean, and we went up and raided Surabaya and Sabang to hit oil depots. I never heard a shot fired or saw an enemy aircraft, and we came right home. Actually, I didn't get married that leave. We went back out, participated in raids on Tokyo and supported Iwo Jima. [At] Iwo Jima we were kamikazed heavily by five planes and a couple of bombs. We took a lot of casualties and a lot of damage and went back for repairs, and then I got married on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Pearl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went to Bremerton for repair. It was too [damaged] to do at Pearl. The ship was pretty wrecked. So I went home and got married and brought my wife back out to Bremerton and then down to San Francisco, and then we went out and she went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in '44, probably?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.940555598619998, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I [boarded] in the Indian Ocean, and we went up and raided Surabaya and Sabang to hit oil depots. I never heard a shot fired or saw an enemy aircraft, and we came right home. Actually, I didn't get married that leave. We went back out, participated in raids on Tokyo and supported Iwo Jima. [At] Iwo Jima we were kamikazed heavily by five planes and a couple of bombs. We took a lot of casualties and a lot of damage and went back for repairs, and then I got married on that trip."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At Pearl?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went to Bremerton for repair. It was too [damaged] to do at Pearl. The ship was pretty wrecked. So I went home and got married and brought my wife back out to Bremerton and then down to San Francisco, and then we went out and she went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in '44, probably?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [No—'45]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all wound down by that time, wasn't it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.378395109577774, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, we went to Bremerton for repair. It was too [damaged] to do at Pearl. The ship was pretty wrecked. So I went home and got married and brought my wife back out to Bremerton and then down to San Francisco, and then we went out and she went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that in '44, probably?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [No—'45]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all wound down by that time, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Not quite.] Our ship was not very maneuverable, so they … assigned us … to training air crews in Hawaii, and then when the war ended, we hauled servicemen back … from Hawaii to the West Coast.\\n\\n Then I was assigned to a Naval Air Modification Unit [NAMU] in Johnsville. I ended up a Program Manager … putting turbo superchargers into F-4Us. And then I got out and went back to school and finished my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the hangars there at Johnsville, which then became a war minster."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 27.08710567730864, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… [No—'45]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was all wound down by that time, wasn't it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Not quite.] Our ship was not very maneuverable, so they … assigned us … to training air crews in Hawaii, and then when the war ended, we hauled servicemen back … from Hawaii to the West Coast.\\n\\n Then I was assigned to a Naval Air Modification Unit [NAMU] in Johnsville. I ended up a Program Manager … putting turbo superchargers into F-4Us. And then I got out and went back to school and finished my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the hangars there at Johnsville, which then became a war minster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you've been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir. In fact, I lived there. When I retired from the Marine Corps, I worked at the Naval Air Development Center [NADC], which is now closed, all except for the centrifuge."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.763450752565152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Not quite.] Our ship was not very maneuverable, so they … assigned us … to training air crews in Hawaii, and then when the war ended, we hauled servicemen back … from Hawaii to the West Coast.\\n\\n Then I was assigned to a Naval Air Modification Unit [NAMU] in Johnsville. I ended up a Program Manager … putting turbo superchargers into F-4Us. And then I got out and went back to school and finished my education."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the hangars there at Johnsville, which then became a war minster."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you've been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir. In fact, I lived there. When I retired from the Marine Corps, I worked at the Naval Air Development Center [NADC], which is now closed, all except for the centrifuge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the same as NAMU [Naval Air Modification Unit]. It became NADC [Naval Air Development Center]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, it did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 26.403834169516834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, you've been there?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir. In fact, I lived there. When I retired from the Marine Corps, I worked at the Naval Air Development Center [NADC], which is now closed, all except for the centrifuge."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the same as NAMU [Naval Air Modification Unit]. It became NADC [Naval Air Development Center]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, it did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for less than half a year, as I recall. I think I went there in the spring and went back to school in the fall, and then I got my graduate degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was always amazed at the Brewster Aircraft Company hangar that's still there today—they haven't wrecked it—where they actually made the Brewster Buffalos, quite an airplane."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.22648241057426, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that was the same as NAMU [Naval Air Modification Unit]. It became NADC [Naval Air Development Center]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, it did."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for less than half a year, as I recall. I think I went there in the spring and went back to school in the fall, and then I got my graduate degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was always amazed at the Brewster Aircraft Company hangar that's still there today—they haven't wrecked it—where they actually made the Brewster Buffalos, quite an airplane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They flew like a buffalo. Their dive-bomber wasn't any better. I [don't] think the Brewster Buffalo ever shot down anything. It was so busy getting shot down itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Marines flew them at Wake, if you remember, and didn't do well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.362758233971398, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there for less than half a year, as I recall. I think I went there in the spring and went back to school in the fall, and then I got my graduate degrees."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was always amazed at the Brewster Aircraft Company hangar that's still there today—they haven't wrecked it—where they actually made the Brewster Buffalos, quite an airplane."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They flew like a buffalo. Their dive-bomber wasn't any better. I [don't] think the Brewster Buffalo ever shot down anything. It was so busy getting shot down itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Marines flew them at Wake, if you remember, and didn't do well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did they do anything?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, I don't think so."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 34.84750914885711, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They flew like a buffalo. Their dive-bomber wasn't any better. I [don't] think the Brewster Buffalo ever shot down anything. It was so busy getting shot down itself."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The Marines flew them at Wake, if you remember, and didn't do well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did they do anything?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, I don't think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just was underpowered. I always liked the looks of it. It looked like it would be fun to fly that airplane, but it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I knew too much about it to think I wanted to fly it. It was before my time.\\n\\n So after the war, up to Rensselaer to finish your degree, then?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.16389905428567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did they do anything?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, I don't think so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just was underpowered. I always liked the looks of it. It looked like it would be fun to fly that airplane, but it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I knew too much about it to think I wanted to fly it. It was before my time.\\n\\n So after the war, up to Rensselaer to finish your degree, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a master's degree and then went to work in NACA Lewis as an aerodynamicist and did propulsion aerodynamics for most of my ten years out there. At the end, I took a nuclear engineering course and got into plasma propulsion… And then Abe Silverstein took a few of us down to Washington to help set up NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're getting way ahead of me. That's right where I was going to go.\\n\\n I see you went back again in '75 for your Ph.D."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.84877672698408, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It just was underpowered. I always liked the looks of it. It looked like it would be fun to fly that airplane, but it wasn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I guess I knew too much about it to think I wanted to fly it. It was before my time.\\n\\n So after the war, up to Rensselaer to finish your degree, then?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a master's degree and then went to work in NACA Lewis as an aerodynamicist and did propulsion aerodynamics for most of my ten years out there. At the end, I took a nuclear engineering course and got into plasma propulsion… And then Abe Silverstein took a few of us down to Washington to help set up NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're getting way ahead of me. That's right where I was going to go.\\n\\n I see you went back again in '75 for your Ph.D."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… My Ph.D. is an honorary, earned in the school of hard knocks, not in academia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Doctor of Engineering, Rensselaer, honorary. Okay, gotcha.\\n\\n Tell us about the NACA nuclear school. In '57, that was right up at the pointy end of the stick in those days, wasn't it, nuclear propulsion. It must have been just coming around."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 39.83197414109342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I got a master's degree and then went to work in NACA Lewis as an aerodynamicist and did propulsion aerodynamics for most of my ten years out there. At the end, I took a nuclear engineering course and got into plasma propulsion… And then Abe Silverstein took a few of us down to Washington to help set up NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're getting way ahead of me. That's right where I was going to go.\\n\\n I see you went back again in '75 for your Ph.D."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… My Ph.D. is an honorary, earned in the school of hard knocks, not in academia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Doctor of Engineering, Rensselaer, honorary. Okay, gotcha.\\n\\n Tell us about the NACA nuclear school. In '57, that was right up at the pointy end of the stick in those days, wasn't it, nuclear propulsion. It must have been just coming around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a gleam in the eye. As far as I know, the only way they've ever used the plasma physics propulsion is for stationkeeping and attitude control, because [it has] very high-specific impulse and uses very little propellant. The nuclear rocket got quite a bit of attention for the early years of the space program, but was never developed, and I wasn't involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was afraid you wouldn't be able to talk much about it. When I saw nuclear school at NACA, I didn't know exactly what that was going to be."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.14663793454824, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… My Ph.D. is an honorary, earned in the school of hard knocks, not in academia."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, Doctor of Engineering, Rensselaer, honorary. Okay, gotcha.\\n\\n Tell us about the NACA nuclear school. In '57, that was right up at the pointy end of the stick in those days, wasn't it, nuclear propulsion. It must have been just coming around."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a gleam in the eye. As far as I know, the only way they've ever used the plasma physics propulsion is for stationkeeping and attitude control, because [it has] very high-specific impulse and uses very little propellant. The nuclear rocket got quite a bit of attention for the early years of the space program, but was never developed, and I wasn't involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was afraid you wouldn't be able to talk much about it. When I saw nuclear school at NACA, I didn't know exactly what that was going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were preparing us—some of us—for the entrance of nuclear into aviation and space. They considered nuclear power for an airplane. Remember the B-36, with that big eight-ball reactor in it? I mean, some of these ideas were wild, and that was not a good idea, but they did it. How would you like your planes flying around overhead with nuclear reactors [on board]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be just fine, as long as they didn't crash into my house."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 47.94070881616471, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was a gleam in the eye. As far as I know, the only way they've ever used the plasma physics propulsion is for stationkeeping and attitude control, because [it has] very high-specific impulse and uses very little propellant. The nuclear rocket got quite a bit of attention for the early years of the space program, but was never developed, and I wasn't involved with that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was afraid you wouldn't be able to talk much about it. When I saw nuclear school at NACA, I didn't know exactly what that was going to be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were preparing us—some of us—for the entrance of nuclear into aviation and space. They considered nuclear power for an airplane. Remember the B-36, with that big eight-ball reactor in it? I mean, some of these ideas were wild, and that was not a good idea, but they did it. How would you like your planes flying around overhead with nuclear reactors [on board]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be just fine, as long as they didn't crash into my house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, … assuming that one or two crashed occasionally, you'd have a big mess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would certainly shun away from that quickly after you had a couple crashes.\\n\\n Well, that was '48 that you went to NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 53.26745424018301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were preparing us—some of us—for the entrance of nuclear into aviation and space. They considered nuclear power for an airplane. Remember the B-36, with that big eight-ball reactor in it? I mean, some of these ideas were wild, and that was not a good idea, but they did it. How would you like your planes flying around overhead with nuclear reactors [on board]?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It would be just fine, as long as they didn't crash into my house."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, … assuming that one or two crashed occasionally, you'd have a big mess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would certainly shun away from that quickly after you had a couple crashes.\\n\\n Well, that was '48 that you went to NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I stayed there for ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you lured over there, from Pennsylvania to Cleveland?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 54.74161582242556, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, … assuming that one or two crashed occasionally, you'd have a big mess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They would certainly shun away from that quickly after you had a couple crashes.\\n\\n Well, that was '48 that you went to NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I stayed there for ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you lured over there, from Pennsylvania to Cleveland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I applied to both Langley and Lewis. I was offered a higher starting grade from Lewis.] I could use [the extra money], so I went to Cleveland. As long as I could work in aerodynamics, I didn't care. And I knew I could work under John Evvard and Abe Silverstein at Cleveland. That was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about some of the people who were there, now that you mention Abe Silverstein and that bunch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 57.490684247139505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. I stayed there for ten years."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you lured over there, from Pennsylvania to Cleveland?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I applied to both Langley and Lewis. I was offered a higher starting grade from Lewis.] I could use [the extra money], so I went to Cleveland. As long as I could work in aerodynamics, I didn't care. And I knew I could work under John Evvard and Abe Silverstein at Cleveland. That was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about some of the people who were there, now that you mention Abe Silverstein and that bunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were great people there, as there were down here. Silverstein is my hero, really, and my mentor, because he brought me along, gave me opportunities, took me to Washington with him, gave me important responsibilities at a very young age.\\n\\n Evvard is a character, but a bright one. He was a Cal Tech [California Institute of Technology] graduate, and I worked directly under [him]for most of the time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I can't let that go by. You have to tell us why he was a character."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 63.87853805237722, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[I applied to both Langley and Lewis. I was offered a higher starting grade from Lewis.] I could use [the extra money], so I went to Cleveland. As long as I could work in aerodynamics, I didn't care. And I knew I could work under John Evvard and Abe Silverstein at Cleveland. That was fine."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me about some of the people who were there, now that you mention Abe Silverstein and that bunch?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were great people there, as there were down here. Silverstein is my hero, really, and my mentor, because he brought me along, gave me opportunities, took me to Washington with him, gave me important responsibilities at a very young age.\\n\\n Evvard is a character, but a bright one. He was a Cal Tech [California Institute of Technology] graduate, and I worked directly under [him]for most of the time I was there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, I can't let that go by. You have to tell us why he was a character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You're right, you don't.\\n\\n There are lots of instances in the research we did that said that—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 66.02288648441632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] You're right, you don't.\\n\\n There are lots of instances in the research we did that said that—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I was put in a group of theoretical aerodynamicists and physicists. It was called the Applied Mechanics Group, and it was set up by Silverstein. And these are names you probably never have heard of, but it included Sy Ostrach, Steve Maslen, George [M.] Low. You must have heard of George Low."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wolfe Moeckel, Barry Moscowitz, [Hal Mirels, and] Frank Moore. About five or six of that group of eight ended up in the National Academy of Engineering, which is pretty hard to get into. But I only stayed in that group for less than a year, and then I got an assignment to run an experimental aerodynamics branch, where I did the [unclear] work that you asked about. It turned out I was better at experimental work than theoretical. I really didn't ever think that I was a creative mathematician. I could do the work in college and get A's in it, but I couldn't apply it as creatively as the best, and I didn't do as well. But I did fine in the other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us some more about Abe Silverstein, if you would."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 29, "return_to_go": 70.02542942712924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "… I was put in a group of theoretical aerodynamicists and physicists. It was called the Applied Mechanics Group, and it was set up by Silverstein. And these are names you probably never have heard of, but it included Sy Ostrach, Steve Maslen, George [M.] Low. You must have heard of George Low."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Wolfe Moeckel, Barry Moscowitz, [Hal Mirels, and] Frank Moore. About five or six of that group of eight ended up in the National Academy of Engineering, which is pretty hard to get into. But I only stayed in that group for less than a year, and then I got an assignment to run an experimental aerodynamics branch, where I did the [unclear] work that you asked about. It turned out I was better at experimental work than theoretical. I really didn't ever think that I was a creative mathematician. I could do the work in college and get A's in it, but I couldn't apply it as creatively as the best, and I didn't do as well. But I did fine in the other stuff."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us some more about Abe Silverstein, if you would."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He's ninety years old, just turned ninety. Talked to him the other day."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You two were portrayed as quite a team back in those days. Was it the personal relationship that made the professional relationship so good?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 27.53209948877922, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was at Lewis…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been exciting work in those days."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. But they were doing work at Langley and Lewis on that subject, and some of the other [labs]. The Air Force at Wright Field, I think, was doing some work in it. We weren't the only ones."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that where the variable ramps and cones came up? Is that how we—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it invented at Lewis and Langley in those days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.87489532279027, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You must have been proud of that, then."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, I was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You should be."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '58, you were selected as a member of—we touched on this before—a member of the special team of scientists and engineers that developed the program plans for what was—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 42.06777200344478, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '58, you were selected as a member of—we touched on this before—a member of the special team of scientists and engineers that developed the program plans for what was—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can I interrupt?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm talking about things that I think I did, and you're going to have all this. That's how I got into trouble with my last interview. I don't mind saying it, but for God's sakes, don't make it come out like \"Cortright claimed he did this.\" That what [James R.] Hansen did. If I ever see Hansen again, I'm going to tell him. I don't really appreciate that, because—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll send this tape to him."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:83", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 46.74196889271642, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can I interrupt?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm talking about things that I think I did, and you're going to have all this. That's how I got into trouble with my last interview. I don't mind saying it, but for God's sakes, don't make it come out like \"Cortright claimed he did this.\" That what [James R.] Hansen did. If I ever see Hansen again, I'm going to tell him. I don't really appreciate that, because—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll send this tape to him."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'm not basically a credit-grabber, and I'm only telling you these things because they were interesting to me at the time. I never did any of these things by myself. I always had a team of people on everything I ever did in my life. My professional life was working with people. I almost never did anything by myself that was noteworthy. But my people did, my little teams did some very good work, and I figure I helped them. I'm not just saying that to sound generous. That's the honest-to-God's truth, the way it was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We believe you.\\n\\n Where was I? We were talking about the team that decided what NASA was going to look like. That was in '58. Can you tell us who selected that team and put it together. I think we covered just about what it did."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.270893462710674, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I know. You probably thought you might ask me about that at some time. I don't know whether I'll comment on it. But I do not get good reports from people I respect who are still working at the centers or with the centers. I think the downsizing has created a very high ratio of support contractors to in-house people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that means the in-house people are more paper-pushers than researchers, particularly at research centers. Now, Johnson always had so many big projects that they always had to have that high ratio. But even at Langley now I saw that there are almost half as many support contractors as there are in-house, maybe more than half. I saw the number a while back. It was like 1,500 or 1,400 support and 2,400 in-house or something like that, a very high ratio. It's very hard to keep a large fraction of your people doing research when you have to pay attention to all these support contractors. It's a problem.\\n\\n Well, that's off the track again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting, your attitudes on that, because Johnson Space Center now is 80 percent contractor and 20 percent government. It's very skewed right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you're pretty much a project management organization. Well, it always was sort of that way, but you also had some very good creative people down there, most of them coming from Langley. You know, the old crew under Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.] and Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Scott Simpkinson from Cleveland, and that type, George Low, Gilruth himself, they were outstanding people, and they were creative. They could have, and did make it, in the research field before they went into managing these big efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Max Faget keeps up busy with his NACA stories. He's a pretty colorful character."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 38.07877051412297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that means the in-house people are more paper-pushers than researchers, particularly at research centers. Now, Johnson always had so many big projects that they always had to have that high ratio. But even at Langley now I saw that there are almost half as many support contractors as there are in-house, maybe more than half. I saw the number a while back. It was like 1,500 or 1,400 support and 2,400 in-house or something like that, a very high ratio. It's very hard to keep a large fraction of your people doing research when you have to pay attention to all these support contractors. It's a problem.\\n\\n Well, that's off the track again."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's interesting, your attitudes on that, because Johnson Space Center now is 80 percent contractor and 20 percent government. It's very skewed right now."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you're pretty much a project management organization. Well, it always was sort of that way, but you also had some very good creative people down there, most of them coming from Langley. You know, the old crew under Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.] and Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Scott Simpkinson from Cleveland, and that type, George Low, Gilruth himself, they were outstanding people, and they were creative. They could have, and did make it, in the research field before they went into managing these big efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Max Faget keeps up busy with his NACA stories. He's a pretty colorful character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is. I like Max. I'm very fond of Max. He always was stimulating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, that's the right word."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 42.30974501569219, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So you're pretty much a project management organization. Well, it always was sort of that way, but you also had some very good creative people down there, most of them coming from Langley. You know, the old crew under Chris [Christopher C. Kraft, Jr.] and Max [Maxime A.] Faget, Scott Simpkinson from Cleveland, and that type, George Low, Gilruth himself, they were outstanding people, and they were creative. They could have, and did make it, in the research field before they went into managing these big efforts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Max Faget keeps up busy with his NACA stories. He's a pretty colorful character."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He is. I like Max. I'm very fond of Max. He always was stimulating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir, that's the right word."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Full of ideas. Didn't necessarily buy yours or the party line. But very creative, and if problems came up, Max always had a solution, and frequently they were the best ones. Smart guy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In '59 and '60, your group developed plans for, and initiated at least six that I know of, lunar exploration projects. I am most familiar with the Ranger, the Surveyor, and what later became Lunar Orbiter. But I'd like to talk briefly about each one, if I could. I believe Ranger was first in the chronological sequence, so let's start with that one. What can you tell us about Ranger?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.53525982318297, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the Lunar Orbiter?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the Surveyor."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sixty meters, Surveyor landed, three out of five."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, my mistake. Lunar Orbiter."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Lunar Orbiter. Yeah, that was something. It was very good. It was probably about like that. That wasn't much worse than—if I can expose a gripe here—you know, we had LANDSAT-type satellites very early that were surveying the Earth for various reasons—geological, crop control, land development-type control. The whole Earth was being mapped. I think the early resolutions were—I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but maybe fifteen feet or something like that. And the Air Force wouldn't let us show pictures any better than like fifty meters, as I recall. Well, they were getting reconnaissance pictures down in a few feet or less. I don't know, incidentally, what they were. I don't know what they are today, but I know they're very good.\\n\\n The interesting thing is, the Russians were doing the same thing, and we knew that. They were taking pictures of anything they wanted over here in the inches or a foot-type resolution. We were still held to the 150 feet in all the things we mapped, and I don't know, I don't think it's been relaxed too much yet. It's better than that. But then the French came along and they did it, and they released low resolution. The Russians are releasing, were releasing better resolution of this country. If you wanted to buy it, then we could…"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, the Spot That is very good."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 41.33780497007266, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Spot That is very good. [Have] you used your computer to go into Terra Server yet?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I photographed my house in Virginia, my house in Florida, where I used to live in Washington, where I used to live in California. Pictures of the house from orbit taken off [the] Internet. Now, they don't have the entire world on their computer base yet, even though they've mapped it, but you can get Baghdad, I think. You can get some of the Middle East stuff that's on there, if you want to look at Hussein's palace. Or depending on where you live. Probably Houston's been done. You can probably find your house out there, just on Internet. Go to Terra Server. It's fun.\\n\\n At any rate, that's just a gripe, the military constraints. And then it gets in their own bureaucracy, once they set it up. I don't want to come across as a critic. I'm a great admirer of the military, actually. But they did some dumb things, like we all did, but I remember other people's dumb things better than my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the duration of the Lunar Orbiter. How long was it up there? There was five of them. Did they all stay up for weeks or months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. They mapped the entire moon at medium resolution and selected areas at high resolution. They found, as I put in the book, that the areas that were slated for Apollo landing were rougher than Earth-based photographs would give you to believe, and they did help select Apollo landing sites. A very successful program.\\n\\n There's some anecdotes in that book, but you're not relying entirely on the spoken word. This is to be a written product or not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's going to be both. We're going to take the audio and put it on a Web site eventually."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 45.930894411191844, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I photographed my house in Virginia, my house in Florida, where I used to live in Washington, where I used to live in California. Pictures of the house from orbit taken off [the] Internet. Now, they don't have the entire world on their computer base yet, even though they've mapped it, but you can get Baghdad, I think. You can get some of the Middle East stuff that's on there, if you want to look at Hussein's palace. Or depending on where you live. Probably Houston's been done. You can probably find your house out there, just on Internet. Go to Terra Server. It's fun.\\n\\n At any rate, that's just a gripe, the military constraints. And then it gets in their own bureaucracy, once they set it up. I don't want to come across as a critic. I'm a great admirer of the military, actually. But they did some dumb things, like we all did, but I remember other people's dumb things better than my own."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me about the duration of the Lunar Orbiter. How long was it up there? There was five of them. Did they all stay up for weeks or months?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember. They mapped the entire moon at medium resolution and selected areas at high resolution. They found, as I put in the book, that the areas that were slated for Apollo landing were rougher than Earth-based photographs would give you to believe, and they did help select Apollo landing sites. A very successful program.\\n\\n There's some anecdotes in that book, but you're not relying entirely on the spoken word. This is to be a written product or not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's going to be both. We're going to take the audio and put it on a Web site eventually."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, I'm not trying to speak to an audience. I'm just rambling."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's okay. How did Lunar Orbiter get switched—I think it got switched. Please correct me if I'm wrong—from Surveyor Orbiter to Lunar Orbiter?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.171908850073365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess our eyes were too big for the budget there. I had a lot to do with Prospector.\\n\\n …It seemed like the Saturn V had no application after Apollo. So I thought, \"Well, let's use it to put some real substantial payloads on [the Moon].\"\\n\\n We [also] had a design [Voyager] that would use the Saturn V to launch payloads, one on top of the other, in a single mission to Mars. …It looked like a big Viking. I mean, it just had a lot more to it. And it was very expensive, and there were no other uses for Saturn V that anyone was really interested in. So Saturn V died and Prospector [and Voyager] died.\\n\\n There was a money crunch at the time. We were lucky to get the money to do Viking, and that was a struggle. And that cost, what, almost a billion dollars, certainly three-quarters of a billion dollars for the Viking."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then there was Voyager."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same deal. Voyager was to be a—the original Voyager was—what was that going to fly on? Atlas-Centaur. Then we upgraded that to have a big Voyager on Saturn V. All of the Saturn V payloads died before they were born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Voyager was going to be a Saturn V payload, also, you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I couldn't find a lot on that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 26, "return_to_go": 39.07989872230374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The same deal. Voyager was to be a—the original Voyager was—what was that going to fly on? Atlas-Centaur. Then we upgraded that to have a big Voyager on Saturn V. All of the Saturn V payloads died before they were born."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the Voyager was going to be a Saturn V payload, also, you think?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I couldn't find a lot on that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were first trimester abortions, is what they were. We did a lot of work on it, but they didn't get too far. Incidentally, JPL never liked the big approach. They always argued against it. I probably was the leading proponent in using the Saturn V, and I lost. Probably very wise that I lost."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it turns out that what I'm about to talk about you didn't lose, because in '62 our researchers revealed that you and Dr. von Braun had differing opinions regarding the Centaur program. He wasn't comfortable with the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.254075174979029, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Everybody but me. I didn't think it could be done that fast, and I didn't think anyone knew how long it would take to do it. I don't think we could do it in ten years today, to be honest with you. That's one of my negatives on this. Our operations today have become so bogged down.\\n\\n We started a fighter plane at Lockheed my last year there, the preliminary work on what's now the F-22. Are you familiar with that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They call it the Raptor. We had really talked the Air Force into including a very stealthy spec. The first fighter spec had very little stealth. It was like one square meter, or half a square meter. That's not stealthy. It either has to be this big or it might as well be that big. But I think we played a key role in convincing them to rewrite the spec. After the commanding general retired, his deputy became commander, and he rewrote the spec and put stealth in. So that complicated it a little bit.\\n\\n But that's been fifteen years, and all we have is two of the first—they're not prototypes, but they're more the proof test models, the ten or eleven they built to ring out before heavy production. There are only a couple of those flying. They're behind in their flight test program. That's fifteen years. We went to the moon in ten, knowing nothing, almost nothing when we started. There were no rockets like the Saturn V. It took the imagination of people like von Braun and Silverstein to do that, and you've got to give those guys tremendous credit for even imagining they could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir. Well, Centaur turned out to be pretty successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's still in use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The RL-10 engine is the workhorse."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 13.615639083310032, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "They call it the Raptor. We had really talked the Air Force into including a very stealthy spec. The first fighter spec had very little stealth. It was like one square meter, or half a square meter. That's not stealthy. It either has to be this big or it might as well be that big. But I think we played a key role in convincing them to rewrite the spec. After the commanding general retired, his deputy became commander, and he rewrote the spec and put stealth in. So that complicated it a little bit.\\n\\n But that's been fifteen years, and all we have is two of the first—they're not prototypes, but they're more the proof test models, the ten or eleven they built to ring out before heavy production. There are only a couple of those flying. They're behind in their flight test program. That's fifteen years. We went to the moon in ten, knowing nothing, almost nothing when we started. There were no rockets like the Saturn V. It took the imagination of people like von Braun and Silverstein to do that, and you've got to give those guys tremendous credit for even imagining they could do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir. Well, Centaur turned out to be pretty successful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's still in use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The RL-10 engine is the workhorse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Centaur's still a workhorse. That was a good decision. By the way, that rocket blew up the other day wasn't the Centaur. It wasn't the upper stage, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, it was not."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 14.017376759233368, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's still in use."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The RL-10 engine is the workhorse."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Centaur's still a workhorse. That was a good decision. By the way, that rocket blew up the other day wasn't the Centaur. It wasn't the upper stage, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, it was not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Titan?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They thought it was a gas path problem."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.574863065814853, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Centaur's still a workhorse. That was a good decision. By the way, that rocket blew up the other day wasn't the Centaur. It wasn't the upper stage, was it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir, it was not."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Titan?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They thought it was a gas path problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the solids again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the solids."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 17.305403406460947, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was the Titan?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They thought it was a gas path problem."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the solids again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the solids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gee. That's sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're taking a look, and we think we're okay."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.22822600717883, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In the solids again?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In the solids."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gee. That's sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're taking a look, and we think we're okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, you say \"we.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA. They're very similar in construction to the Shuttle's SRVs."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 19.14247334130981, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, gee. That's sad."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We're taking a look, and we think we're okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, you say \"we.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA. They're very similar in construction to the Shuttle's SRVs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. See, I got involved in that on the Challenger. I was by then retired from Lockheed, and I was working on a Shuttle Safety Advisory Board. And, of course, after the accident, we went through it all, also. It was repetitious.\\n\\n When's your plane, by the way? I mean, I don't talk much, but once you get me talking, I'll talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have all day. Our time is your time.\\n\\n In June of '66, right after the flight of Gemini IX, Deputy Administrator Robert Seamans didn't like the way the mission went and the results, and he established the Gemini Mission Review Board. James [C.] Elms was the chairman, and you were on that board. Can you tell us something about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:155", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.269414823677565, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Now, you say \"we.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "NASA. They're very similar in construction to the Shuttle's SRVs."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. See, I got involved in that on the Challenger. I was by then retired from Lockheed, and I was working on a Shuttle Safety Advisory Board. And, of course, after the accident, we went through it all, also. It was repetitious.\\n\\n When's your plane, by the way? I mean, I don't talk much, but once you get me talking, I'll talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have all day. Our time is your time.\\n\\n In June of '66, right after the flight of Gemini IX, Deputy Administrator Robert Seamans didn't like the way the mission went and the results, and he established the Gemini Mission Review Board. James [C.] Elms was the chairman, and you were on that board. Can you tell us something about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews of the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC] was on there."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.521572026308405, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, okay. See, I got involved in that on the Challenger. I was by then retired from Lockheed, and I was working on a Shuttle Safety Advisory Board. And, of course, after the accident, we went through it all, also. It was repetitious.\\n\\n When's your plane, by the way? I mean, I don't talk much, but once you get me talking, I'll talk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We have all day. Our time is your time.\\n\\n In June of '66, right after the flight of Gemini IX, Deputy Administrator Robert Seamans didn't like the way the mission went and the results, and he established the Gemini Mission Review Board. James [C.] Elms was the chairman, and you were on that board. Can you tell us something about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews of the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC] was on there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I vaguely recall it, but it's very vague. As I said, I have trouble with yesterday. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was '66. That was a long time ago. You've been doing great so far. That's the first one you didn't remember.\\n\\n Let's try two years later, '68. Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, I guess, who was the Apollo Program Manager, and was the Deputy AA for Manned Space Flight, and then you came in and took his place for a year, a couple of years."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.02396891812045, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I don't remember anything about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, okay. Chuck [Charles W.] Mathews of the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC] was on there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I vaguely recall it, but it's very vague. As I said, I have trouble with yesterday. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was '66. That was a long time ago. You've been doing great so far. That's the first one you didn't remember.\\n\\n Let's try two years later, '68. Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, I guess, who was the Apollo Program Manager, and was the Deputy AA for Manned Space Flight, and then you came in and took his place for a year, a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your friend, Mr. Hansen, quoted you in the book that, when you came in to take the job, you said, \"It's awfully hard to come into Apollo and make much of an impact.\" What did you mean by that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 27.80440990902272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I vaguely recall it, but it's very vague. As I said, I have trouble with yesterday. That was a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was '66. That was a long time ago. You've been doing great so far. That's the first one you didn't remember.\\n\\n Let's try two years later, '68. Joe [Joseph F.] Shea, I guess, who was the Apollo Program Manager, and was the Deputy AA for Manned Space Flight, and then you came in and took his place for a year, a couple of years."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A year."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your friend, Mr. Hansen, quoted you in the book that, when you came in to take the job, you said, \"It's awfully hard to come into Apollo and make much of an impact.\" What did you mean by that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was almost done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It was rolling up by that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:169", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.737097864689407, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The Skylab initially was to be launched full of fuel, and after the fuel was burned out, it was to be shut down and vented. And then we were to go up with another mission and open it up and go in and make that tank into a lab.\\n\\n Well, I opposed that, and I argued against it. I don't know how much weight I had to carry on it, but it didn't get done. They launched it properly, completely outfitted on the ground beforehand. I thought that was a crazy idea. It added tremendous work and some risk for no obvious gain. You'd end up probably with not as good a facility and my never get it to work. So I did that before I left.\\n\\n I didn't do a whole lot. I did the best I could under the circumstances. You didn't know George Mueller, or did you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, George is a very, very dynamic leader, and a stylish one. By that I mean he has his own style, and it doesn't really need—I mean, a deputy is sort of nice to have, categorically. The people who really got the work assignments were the Apollo Program Manager, Sam [Samuel C.] Phillips, and the Project Manager, George Low, after Joe Shea, and the Gilruths and the von Brauns, and George's deputy was a high-level helper, and it didn't turn me on very much. That's all I meant by that. I found a few interesting things to do, but when Langley came along, I was very happy to get it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a good place to take a break, because we're just about out of tape right here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'd like to make a phone call to see if my wife—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let's talk about the Viking. The Viking program was run a little differently than other programs, and there was some contentiousness about the way it was run. Do you want to talk about some of that, regarding who the work force was and the relative sizes of them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:177", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.60661159074746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Worked as advertised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, about the general same time frame—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked me a question at the beginning. I didn't totally answer it. We had internal—we had struggles. There were people who didn't like the project, never liked it being here, and still don't think it was a good idea and that it had a bad impact on the Center. And some good people. These are not fly-brains. These are very good research people, whom I like and respect highly, who think that project never should have come here. So there was that much contention about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to got back and ask you a question that I almost missed, and this is about Apollo 13. Apollo 13 was classified as a successful failure. I made a note here that that's an oxymoron if there was one, a successful failure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never said that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you never did. Why is it classified as a successful failure?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:179", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 14, "return_to_go": 35.11845732305273, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You asked me a question at the beginning. I didn't totally answer it. We had internal—we had struggles. There were people who didn't like the project, never liked it being here, and still don't think it was a good idea and that it had a bad impact on the Center. And some good people. These are not fly-brains. These are very good research people, whom I like and respect highly, who think that project never should have come here. So there was that much contention about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I want to got back and ask you a question that I almost missed, and this is about Apollo 13. Apollo 13 was classified as a successful failure. I made a note here that that's an oxymoron if there was one, a successful failure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I never said that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, you never did. Why is it classified as a successful failure?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Nobody got hurt. That's all you can say about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You wound up being the chairman of the Apollo 13 Review Board. We mentioned earlier, I think off line, that you kept that report. Can you tell us something about that in a Readers Digest version? One of the things I wanted to specifically ask you about that, you determined that the root causes were obsolete thermostatic switches and improvised ground test procedures. Since I work safety these days, I'd kind of like to know what was learned from the test procedures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 31.649066577000003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I thought it was very good. The only technical flaws that I saw were cosmetic. You know, when the explosion occurred and when they were changing attitude, everything was always shaking and turning violently. You can't make spacecraft move that fast with the little rockets you have on them to change attitude control. That was done for the public.\\n\\n I don't know about the explosion itself. That certainly could have jarred the guys, and probably did, because that was a big release of fluid. But initially, it was released into a large cavity, and then it blew the side of the Command Module off. But that still probably would have given quite a bit of impetus to move them. But later on, when they were trying to do a final burn behind the moon or something and they were trying to find the sun or something to get an attitude reference, and everything was moving and like this and guys were shaking, that was hokey. But in general, it was very good; I thought very good. I liked it.\\n\\n But I couldn't stand sitting through what was the original one on the Mercury astronauts? The Right Stuff. I wanted to throw up. I walked out halfway through that. That was awful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you liked Apollo 13 a lot better, and Tom Hanks."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other one was awful. Did you see it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you like it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was young and impressionable when I saw that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 35.165629530000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The other one was awful. Did you see it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, sir."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you like it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was young and impressionable when I saw that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a lot of friends who liked it. I thought it made some very good people look like—I won't use the word in front of a lady, but you know what it is. The only people who looked halfway normal were the astronauts, and they were only halfway normal. They were either chasing skirts, which they did some of, but they looked like super guys. But the scientists looked like jerks, and the doctors looked worse than jerks. It just made fun of people who worked very hard and were very good, and I resented it, so I wouldn't watch it. You don't use that, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I found the list at Johnson Space Center of the ten worst things wrong with Apollo 13 by the technogeeks of Johnson Space Center, and one of the ones they came up with—a good one, too—Jim [James A.] Lovell's Corvette, the '65 Corvette that he was driving, had 1995 plates on it in the movie."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00129:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 22, "return_to_go": 39.0729217, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Did you like it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was young and impressionable when I saw that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I have a lot of friends who liked it. I thought it made some very good people look like—I won't use the word in front of a lady, but you know what it is. The only people who looked halfway normal were the astronauts, and they were only halfway normal. They were either chasing skirts, which they did some of, but they looked like super guys. But the scientists looked like jerks, and the doctors looked worse than jerks. It just made fun of people who worked very hard and were very good, and I resented it, so I wouldn't watch it. You don't use that, please."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I found the list at Johnson Space Center of the ten worst things wrong with Apollo 13 by the technogeeks of Johnson Space Center, and one of the ones they came up with—a good one, too—Jim [James A.] Lovell's Corvette, the '65 Corvette that he was driving, had 1995 plates on it in the movie."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's cute."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me ask you a couple of opinion questions, and you can not answer or give me your opinion. It's about, when you instituted those sweeping changes here at Langley when you took over as the Director, how much freedom did a Center Director have then during those years to steer his group in the direction he saw fit? What was the relationship with Headquarters as contrasted to the last twenty years of evolution?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00453:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 65.16977273734113, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's my pleasure."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "To begin with, if you could just tell us about how you became interested in aviation aerospace, what kind of guided your career and led you towards NASA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a very young boy, my father always encouraged me to get into engineering. At that point in my life I had no idea what engineering was, but I always remembered that he encouraged me to do that. He was a very mechanically inclined person, so he, my father, was my main encourager to go in that direction. As it turned out, when I got older, my interests in math and through high school and into college, math and science supported that.\\n\\n So when I graduated from high school, I looked for a college that I could go to where I could study aerospace engineering. It was called aeronautical engineering when I began, but as I went through school, the curriculum changed and they added courses and it became aerospace engineering. So my father was really my main supporter and inspiration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good to have that family support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you then learn about the opportunity at NASA? Did you move right into that after college?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00453:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 69.07752526371237, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "As a very young boy, my father always encouraged me to get into engineering. At that point in my life I had no idea what engineering was, but I always remembered that he encouraged me to do that. He was a very mechanically inclined person, so he, my father, was my main encourager to go in that direction. As it turned out, when I got older, my interests in math and through high school and into college, math and science supported that.\\n\\n So when I graduated from high school, I looked for a college that I could go to where I could study aerospace engineering. It was called aeronautical engineering when I began, but as I went through school, the curriculum changed and they added courses and it became aerospace engineering. So my father was really my main supporter and inspiration."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's good to have that family support."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you then learn about the opportunity at NASA? Did you move right into that after college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was my first job straight out of college, and I guess, you know, President [John F.] Kennedy had inspired the country, and that was sort of like a star that was shining. I was not smart enough to know at the time that that's exactly what I wanted to do, but it was like a dream. When I came to time for graduation from college, it really was a seller's market at that time. I received like thirteen job offers, and the very last one I got, very late, was from NASA, and it was very lowest paying. I didn't hesitate, I accepted it, because, for one, I'm a native Houstonian. I sort of liked to come back to the Houston area. But number two, I was, of course, interested in NASA. Again, it was like a dream that I wanted to fulfill. So it all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly seems to have."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00453:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 75.6416947374582, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did you then learn about the opportunity at NASA? Did you move right into that after college?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was my first job straight out of college, and I guess, you know, President [John F.] Kennedy had inspired the country, and that was sort of like a star that was shining. I was not smart enough to know at the time that that's exactly what I wanted to do, but it was like a dream. When I came to time for graduation from college, it really was a seller's market at that time. I received like thirteen job offers, and the very last one I got, very late, was from NASA, and it was very lowest paying. I didn't hesitate, I accepted it, because, for one, I'm a native Houstonian. I sort of liked to come back to the Houston area. But number two, I was, of course, interested in NASA. Again, it was like a dream that I wanted to fulfill. So it all worked out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Certainly seems to have."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was wonderful, and it was such a right time, too. I could not have known it at the time, but it was a very glorious time to get into the space business. It was my first job, so I had nothing to compare it with, and I would go to work every day and do things that people would say, \"Wow! What are you doing out there?\" And I just thought that's what everybody did. I didn't know any better."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That certainly seems to—It's a similar story to what we've heard before, even though it was a low offer and didn't know the extent of how challenging it was, or was going to get over time. What was then your first job that you moved into when you came to them?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00453:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 36.629999999999995, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was different. And there weren't any ladies in our environment back then. I think it was early—well, let's see. I'm not sure of the exact year, but I remember the first lady that was in our control center was named Poppy Northcut [phonetic]. She was back in one of our staff support rooms. Probably, I mean, everyone had a pretty important job that worked in the control center, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, it was an average support room job. But since it was so unique that it was the first lady flight controller, there was a lot of notoriety and pictures in the paper and pictures with the mayor of Houston. You know John. You've met John Llewellyn."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "user", "content": "John was a little miffed when he saw the pictures of Poppy in the paper. He didn't see anything real special that she did. But, of course, she was breaking new ground in the control center.\\n\\n Now, when I retired, we had, I don't know if it was 50 percent, but I mean, there were lady engineers and other tasks in the whole organization. It was not unique at all. But there was a high period of evolution in the work force there. I don't know if that was just in our environment or whether that was everywhere, but it was extremely unusual to have anyone other than a secretary as a female worker for probably the first ten or twelve years that I worked for NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly saw many changes like that from the composition of the work force to the computers, as you had mentioned earlier. Those changed immensely from when you first came in with Gemini until by the time you retired in the nineties."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you could reflect a little bit on those changes and the differences."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00586:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 73.80869822559002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I believe it did come off of Mir."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that the first time that they’d actually put something out there specifically to collect the particles? Like you were talking about the Palapa and the EURECA—those were just impacts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those were impacts on either equipment that they had removed and replaced or insulation blankets that kept the spacecraft cool. But this project with Aerogel was to collect samples because we had been testing the Aerogel here at JSC and other places, shooting different types of material at six kilometers per second into different types of material. Aerogel continued to slow it down and left particles along the track and at the end of the track. It worked and it was truly an exciting time for the collection of space debris. Now other NASA locations could have been trying other stuff that I was not aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On those earlier projects, did you actually collect any substances? Or was it only the impacts that you saw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, I was responsible for scanning, coring and sending it out to scientists. If there was any substance, it was minimal. Most of the impacts decompressed so quickly that they turned to gas and did not leave anything there for us to pick up with the Electron Microscope studies. But yes, there was slight material left from some impacts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how many you were finding on the LDEF. Was that a surprise to people that that many impacts could be seen?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00586:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 82.00966469510001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Those were impacts on either equipment that they had removed and replaced or insulation blankets that kept the spacecraft cool. But this project with Aerogel was to collect samples because we had been testing the Aerogel here at JSC and other places, shooting different types of material at six kilometers per second into different types of material. Aerogel continued to slow it down and left particles along the track and at the end of the track. It worked and it was truly an exciting time for the collection of space debris. Now other NASA locations could have been trying other stuff that I was not aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On those earlier projects, did you actually collect any substances? Or was it only the impacts that you saw?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, I was responsible for scanning, coring and sending it out to scientists. If there was any substance, it was minimal. Most of the impacts decompressed so quickly that they turned to gas and did not leave anything there for us to pick up with the Electron Microscope studies. But yes, there was slight material left from some impacts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how many you were finding on the LDEF. Was that a surprise to people that that many impacts could be seen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it threw off their calculations to formulas that had been derived and they had to be redone. After the recalculations of scientific data, I think they had a better idea of what was coming in and from what directions, most was from material that we have put up in orbit [satellites, rockets, and spacecraft]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like an awful lot of impacts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00586:7", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 88.89962743900001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Like I said, I was responsible for scanning, coring and sending it out to scientists. If there was any substance, it was minimal. Most of the impacts decompressed so quickly that they turned to gas and did not leave anything there for us to pick up with the Electron Microscope studies. But yes, there was slight material left from some impacts."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You were talking about how many you were finding on the LDEF. Was that a surprise to people that that many impacts could be seen?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think it threw off their calculations to formulas that had been derived and they had to be redone. After the recalculations of scientific data, I think they had a better idea of what was coming in and from what directions, most was from material that we have put up in orbit [satellites, rockets, and spacecraft]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It seems like an awful lot of impacts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that could have been the leading edge that we saw, but we realized that when we started on this one particular plate that we were trying to document all impacts. We could get craters all the way down to 20-microns in size with the eyepieces and the X factor that we were using. This is a magnification that we decided to use, and we could see 20-micron impacts pretty easily."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then you mentioned the Aerogel—if you want to go on and talk about that with the Stardust Program and how that was used."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00569:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 65.61260249163533, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was born in Louisiana, actually, and I grew up in New Orleans, actually. It was a state university and my folks had a little money and were able to get me what they called NYA [National Youth Administration] scholarship, which paid for a part of my education, so I had to work while I went to college. It was the cheapest place you could go to get a college education at the time, and not too far away from New Orleans."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I understand that you had a roommate who also went on to have a storied career in the space program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it took me four and a half years to graduate because of my job. I had one required course in chemical engineering that I was unable to schedule. It was only taught at one time during the week, and that conflicted with my work schedule, so I had to go to summer school and then to go an extra semester.\\n\\n See, originally all the other time I was in military, and I always roomed in the military barracks at the university. Max was not in advanced military, [Maxime A.] Faget. I don't know why, he and I got to talking and decided to room together during that one summer session, so we lived together during that summer session and then continued to live together until mid-term when I graduated that year, 1943, January of '43. I don't know, we were two similar students. We got along pretty good.\\n\\n I used to visit his home. His father was in the [U.S.] Public Health Service. In fact, he found a cure for leprosy. He lived in a leper colony thirty-five miles south of Baton Rouge, and we'd go there sometimes on the weekends. It was nice because all of the Public Health doctors had a small golf course and swimming pool and tennis courts, so it was fairly nice."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like an interesting experience for a college student, to be able to go to leper colony and have these types of activities there."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any particular stories or events from your college experience, with or without Max, that you think were typical of your time there?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00569:9", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 15, "return_to_go": 79.76864505140163, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you remember any particular stories or events from your college experience, with or without Max, that you think were typical of your time there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Stories with or without Max. Well, I don't know of any particular stories. We were just kind of normal students in school, and I don't think either of us were honor students at all. Both of us were very good, I think, in our major courses, but the rest of the stuff we didn't pay much attention to. I never studied very hard, for some reason or other. I've said to a lot of folks, I was born lazy, and I always look for the easy way of doing things, so I had decent grades in school. Better than average, but certainly not what they expect people to have in order to get hired at NASA these days."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true, but you seem to have done very well for yourself regardless."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the insistence on hiring straight-A students sometimes misses an awful lot of good folks, like Bob Gilruth and Max and me. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I wouldn't argue with that at all. So when you graduated you went into the Army?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00569:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 56.116883193119406, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we did have an inadvertent firing where it worked great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Out at White Sands, as I recall, I believe, on one of the Big Joes, I think. We had a Big Joe came apart, I believe, and the launch escape system worked like it was supposed to.\\n\\n You know, that's another system, too, by the way, that has to work all the time. It can't work when you don't want it to work. It has to work all the time. If you don't get it off, you lost the whole thing, the crew and everybody. So pyrotechnic device is something that you have to be real careful with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's interesting because on Gemini they didn't have the launch escape rocket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's because Chamberlin didn't want one and he got his way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about that story?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00569:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 62.35209243679934, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Out at White Sands, as I recall, I believe, on one of the Big Joes, I think. We had a Big Joe came apart, I believe, and the launch escape system worked like it was supposed to.\\n\\n You know, that's another system, too, by the way, that has to work all the time. It can't work when you don't want it to work. It has to work all the time. If you don't get it off, you lost the whole thing, the crew and everybody. So pyrotechnic device is something that you have to be real careful with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, it's interesting because on Gemini they didn't have the launch escape rocket."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's because Chamberlin didn't want one and he got his way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell us about that story?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I don't know the whole story. All I know is Jim wasn't buying into a launch escape system, though, and I think he—I'm not sure whether they—I think they had ejection seats on Gemini. Yes. He's an old aircraft type, you see, and all the things he designed had ejection seats. I'd rather take my chances with the launch escape rocket, but Chamberlin's the one who insisted it be that way. And he was program manager, I guess, at the time, so he got his way on that one. Fortunately, never had to use any of them. I just don't think I'd like to have to bail out of that thing with one of those. Jim's the one that—that's why Gemini had ejection seats."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you have a lot of involvement with Gemini in general?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00569:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 56.99774290432771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I was in the viewing room over in Mission Control. I had a lot of folks living over there. I had some reporters living over at my house, the spillover there, asked us if we could furnish a room for some of them, I guess. Me and my wife had a lot of guests over there, I guess, relatives who wanted to be close to the action. I don't know. [Laughter] But I was in the viewing room when Apollo 11 landed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were your feelings at the time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I was just happy as hell. I mean, why not?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We finally did it, you know. Gilruth said after 11 he wanted to can the program. He was finished with it. He said, \"It's all just a waste of time and money to keep on going back to the moon.\" He might be right, I don't know, you know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you sense that there might be some waning interest in Apollo after the first landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00111:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It can’t be. If you knew how things worked, pre-launch, it’s just not possible. If a guy’s not absolutely stone-cold sober, nobody’s going to put him in a spacecraft, and no other crewmen would fly with him. Your life depends on it, for heaven’s sakes. You got to go through a lot of checks. The doctors look at you and everything, and their jobs depend on signing off on you being ready to fly, so it’s physically not possible for that to happen. That’s just incredible.\\n\\n I enjoyed Ralph [M.] Hall at the congressional hearings. Ralph, bless his heart, I love that man. He was an old Navy pilot, World War II. In the congressional hearing, he’d basically interrupted and said, “You know, this is all bullshit.”\\n\\n Everybody’s going, “This is a congressional hearing; you’re not supposed to talk like that.”\\n\\n He said, “That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard.”\\n\\n We’re going, “Yay, somebody’s said the right thing.” Bless his heart. That was a disappointing episode."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Those seemed to all happen back-to-back, as well."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I noticed that. First year was very quiet and very enjoyable, and then all hell broke loose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Calm before that storm."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well speaking of storms, I thought next time we can talk about Hurricane Ike, and we’ve got some more to talk about, about Shuttle and COTS [Commercial Orbital Transportation Services]. There’s quite a bit more to talk about, so if you wouldn’t mind having us back."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 39.425708425307924, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was flight training, of course, flying T-38s, which was a great thrill, a very enjoyable thing to do. It’s a fine airplane. And a lot of classroom work, the very preliminary stages of simulation in part-task trainers and that sort of thing, a lot of lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures on various systems on the Space Shuttle and things like geology and oceanography and things that astronauts need to be aware of in order to do their job properly in space.\\n\\n We were broken down into two teams. We had essentially a red team and a blue team. Rick [Frederick H.] Hauck and I were the senior astronauts in my class, and so Rick was kind of the leader of one team and I was kind of the leader of the other team. There were no responsibilities that went with that. [Laughs] It was just that somebody had to be the person that George Abbey called if there was a problem, and so Rick and I handled those tasks."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that something you stepped up to do, or was that something that George Abbey had asked you to do?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember, as a matter of fact. I really don’t remember exactly how it happened, but we were the two oldest, and in our military ranks we were the senior military people in the class. And the civilians were mostly much younger, so I guess it was just natural that the two old fogies would be tasked with this. There were no rewards and very few responsibilities, so it really wasn’t a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your class called themselves the Thirty-Five New Guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how that phrase came about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.47300936145325, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember, as a matter of fact. I really don’t remember exactly how it happened, but we were the two oldest, and in our military ranks we were the senior military people in the class. And the civilians were mostly much younger, so I guess it was just natural that the two old fogies would be tasked with this. There were no rewards and very few responsibilities, so it really wasn’t a big deal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Your class called themselves the Thirty-Five New Guys."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how that phrase came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember exactly, but I know Judy [Judith A.] Resnik had something to do with it. Of course, it didn’t really stand for thirty-five new guys, but that’s close enough. That’s close enough.\\n\\n And we had this wonderful t-shirt with this logo with thirty-five astronauts crawling around in space all over the Space Shuttle. It was cleverly done, and I know that Judy was involved in it. I would guess probably Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson was involved in it, too. But it was kind of presented to me as a done deal; they said, “Look. Look what we’ve done,” and it was well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the camaraderie between this class."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 43.85889929050361, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you recall how that phrase came about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember exactly, but I know Judy [Judith A.] Resnik had something to do with it. Of course, it didn’t really stand for thirty-five new guys, but that’s close enough. That’s close enough.\\n\\n And we had this wonderful t-shirt with this logo with thirty-five astronauts crawling around in space all over the Space Shuttle. It was cleverly done, and I know that Judy was involved in it. I would guess probably Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson was involved in it, too. But it was kind of presented to me as a done deal; they said, “Look. Look what we’ve done,” and it was well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the camaraderie between this class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to know the people that were in our group. See, we broke in two parts because the classroom didn’t hold the thirty-five people, and so you got to know the people that were in your class much better, in reality, than you got to know the people that were in the other class, particularly in the first three or four months. But what we found out very quickly was that all of these people, whether they were the youngest in the group or the oldest in the group, they were all extraordinarily bright, extraordinarily capable, and very, very eager to succeed in what it was that they were doing. So we didn’t have any dim bulbs in the group.\\n\\n At the same time, I will tell you that in any group, doesn’t matter how fine it is, there’s always going to be a dim bulb, okay? But it appears that way only because it is a comparison with the others. This was an extraordinarily talented group of people that we were working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, Vance Brand was sort of your big brother."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 48.732110322781786, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t remember exactly, but I know Judy [Judith A.] Resnik had something to do with it. Of course, it didn’t really stand for thirty-five new guys, but that’s close enough. That’s close enough.\\n\\n And we had this wonderful t-shirt with this logo with thirty-five astronauts crawling around in space all over the Space Shuttle. It was cleverly done, and I know that Judy was involved in it. I would guess probably Hoot [Robert L.] Gibson was involved in it, too. But it was kind of presented to me as a done deal; they said, “Look. Look what we’ve done,” and it was well done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell us about the camaraderie between this class."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We got to know the people that were in our group. See, we broke in two parts because the classroom didn’t hold the thirty-five people, and so you got to know the people that were in your class much better, in reality, than you got to know the people that were in the other class, particularly in the first three or four months. But what we found out very quickly was that all of these people, whether they were the youngest in the group or the oldest in the group, they were all extraordinarily bright, extraordinarily capable, and very, very eager to succeed in what it was that they were doing. So we didn’t have any dim bulbs in the group.\\n\\n At the same time, I will tell you that in any group, doesn’t matter how fine it is, there’s always going to be a dim bulb, okay? But it appears that way only because it is a comparison with the others. This was an extraordinarily talented group of people that we were working with."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you mentioned, Vance Brand was sort of your big brother."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You did some on-the-job training with him. What were some of the tasks that you worked on while working under him?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.431773097695977, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was usually trying to get the team oriented in such a way that they understood precisely what a problem was and what the options were in order to resolve that problem and then get a course of action laid out. And I say that because we had the NASA team from the Johnson Space Center, the Rockwell team from California, the Canadian contractor team, and the Canadian government team. Oftentimes we would have the Kennedy Space Center [Florida] people, because they were ultimately responsible for integrating the arm onto the Shuttle. And from time to time we would have this Air Force interest coming from The Aerospace Corporation, and trying to get all of those people to come to an agreement on what course of action was appropriate and then get it started—any big project, that’s always your biggest problem. It’s always a matter of getting a coordinated effort."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And the RMS proved to work quite well on STS-2?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. In fact, I think the RMS has worked wonders on all of the flights. It’s really a great piece of equipment. We’ve never had one of those really dangerous runaway-arm type of malfunctions that we worried about, but of course those failure modes are still there.\\n\\n And the Canadians have gone on to design an arm now for the International Space Station, so they have gotten a big return out of their early investment in developing these electromechanical systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the other positions you held--you served as head of the Astronaut Operations Groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 29.36863677521775, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. In fact, I think the RMS has worked wonders on all of the flights. It’s really a great piece of equipment. We’ve never had one of those really dangerous runaway-arm type of malfunctions that we worried about, but of course those failure modes are still there.\\n\\n And the Canadians have gone on to design an arm now for the International Space Station, so they have gotten a big return out of their early investment in developing these electromechanical systems."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Some of the other positions you held--you served as head of the Astronaut Operations Groups."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it included a number of things. It included training, and it included the flight data file that the crew carries all of their various checklists. And it included some assessment of upcoming payloads that we were going to fly on the Shuttle and any unique problems that were associated with those. It was an important job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else worked on this project with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.965151972464167, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it included a number of things. It included training, and it included the flight data file that the crew carries all of their various checklists. And it included some assessment of upcoming payloads that we were going to fly on the Shuttle and any unique problems that were associated with those. It was an important job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Who else worked on this project with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "At various times different people. Judy and I, for example, laid out – one of the things we did was to lay out the roles and responsibilities for the Mission Specialist, going to carry three Mission Specialists up, what are their roles and responsibilities, generically, so you don’t have to reinvent a training program every time you name a crew.\\n\\n So we came up with a scheme in which MS [Mission Specialist] 1 has overall responsibility for payloads and experiments in orbit, and a Mission Specialist 2 has primary responsibility for flight engineering and helping the Pilot and Commander during ascent and entry and backup for payloads. And Mission Specialist 3 really had responsibilities for independent experiments and also an EVA [Extravehicular Activity] responsibility. So that’s kind of the way we laid it out.\\n\\n MS 3 would be typically the most junior and the lowest training requirement but heavy on EVA. MS 1 would have the largest overall responsibility and, in principle, ought to be the most experienced member of the astronaut Mission Specialist crew. And MS 2 had the most simulation time, spent an enormous amount of time in the simulator.\\n\\n That’s why we split it that way. We split it that way in order to recognize the fact that the flight engineering role was the dominant training requirement for one of the Mission Specialists, and therefore that person shouldn’t be burdened with overall responsibility for the satellites."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, early on in the Space Shuttle Program, the flight manifest was rearranged many, many times. What impact did that have on your career?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 21.60530618631265, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you share with us the details of that organization?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "After it became clear that I was only going to fly two flights, I told George that he needed to find somebody else to fill the two slots that I had been selected to fill. And his payback was to put me in charge of the Payload Specialist Office. It needed somebody at the time, and I was only going to be around for a couple of three months before I was reassigned to the Pentagon [Washington, D.C.], so I wasn’t going to be around for a great deal of time. And it was something that needed to be done. It would not have been my first choice of things to go do, but at the same time, it did give me the opportunity to meet some really interesting and nice people who were over there at the time and are not with us anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was the Payload Specialist Office placed on site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know where the large vacuum tank is, the old large vacuum chamber from the Apollo days, which is –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The SESL [Space Environment Simulation Laboratory]?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.00589576256961, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "After it became clear that I was only going to fly two flights, I told George that he needed to find somebody else to fill the two slots that I had been selected to fill. And his payback was to put me in charge of the Payload Specialist Office. It needed somebody at the time, and I was only going to be around for a couple of three months before I was reassigned to the Pentagon [Washington, D.C.], so I wasn’t going to be around for a great deal of time. And it was something that needed to be done. It would not have been my first choice of things to go do, but at the same time, it did give me the opportunity to meet some really interesting and nice people who were over there at the time and are not with us anymore."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And where was the Payload Specialist Office placed on site?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know where the large vacuum tank is, the old large vacuum chamber from the Apollo days, which is –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The SESL [Space Environment Simulation Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—kind of down there by the cafeteria? It was right there, right there in that building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you had to face while setting up this office?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 25.56210640285512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Do you know where the large vacuum tank is, the old large vacuum chamber from the Apollo days, which is –"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The SESL [Space Environment Simulation Laboratory]?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "—kind of down there by the cafeteria? It was right there, right there in that building."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the challenges that you had to face while setting up this office?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not many. Not many. It was like anything which is just getting started, there are startup issues associated with it, but we had a good basic staff that was assigned to the office. Trying to orient people that are coming into the Payload Specialist Program and making sure that they understood what it was that they were about to do and why they were going to do it was something that was important.\\n\\n And it hadn’t been done, really. We had already had several people in the Payload Specialist Program before that time, but we didn’t have an office, so we didn’t have anybody who was trying to coordinate their activities. Handling things like press and handling things like training load and so forth, the basic logistical support for these folks, was something that was needed. So that was something that George asked me to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I also understand you were a team member assigned to develop policies and requirements for life science experiments."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:73", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.766356352469316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, because they had the cages. They were their cages and their design. And in spite of their best efforts, it did not contain the material that it should have contained."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s talk about some of the missions. Let’s talk about STS-1. What were some of your requirements or duties for this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Zero. I was desperately concerned about my career at NASA when STS-1 went off, because I was the only member of the Class of ’78 that did not have a task. I had no responsibility to do anything on STS-1, and I interpreted that to mean bad things. I mean, when you’re the only member of the group that is not working on a flight, when that flight launches and lands and you haven’t done anything at all to support it and you’re a member of the Astronaut Office, well, that’s not a very good indicator.\\n\\n Then I looked around at the other people who were not asked to do anything in support of the flight, and there were a couple of people from the olden days still in the Astronaut Office who were also not asked to participate, and their reputation within the Astronaut Office was not too great. So I figured that mine was right with them. [Laughs]\\n\\n I didn’t do anything on STS-1. I was still working on the robotic arm, and apparently that was the right thing, because in spite of all that, I got to fly first in my class. But that’s not what I was thinking when STS-1 went off. I thought, I must be at the very bottom of the heap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So where were you when STS-1 launched?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was sitting in Building Four listening to it on the speaker system and watching the TV like the American public."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Any thoughts from that day or any thoughts about the landing?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 31.76203444733761, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was delighted. Yes, she was delighted. Donna worked at NASA. She started as a paraprofessional, para-engineer, and by the time I flew STS-7, she was working in the Mission Control Center in one of the back rooms. So, she was part of the team. She was part of working on the program. And yes, she was delighted to have me fly.\\n\\n And I think she was also delighted with the people that I flew with. The STS-7 crew was a really great crew. Crippen was the epitome of the great astronaut, so it was a great pleasure to fly with him, and she knew that. She knew reputations as well as I did. So you like seeing your spouse fly with people of great reputation. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about the relationship between the crew members on this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Uniformly good, except we did have a blip when Norm Thagard joined, and I guess that’s to be expected. We trained as a crew of four, and then relatively late in the program, Norm came on, and we tried really hard to integrate Norm into the rest of the crew activities. Sally, for example, was lead on our electrophoresis experiment, doing some fluid work, trying to get some very pure substances out of this process. And I was the lead on doing the deployment and the retrieval using the remote manipulator system. But Sally was going to do essentially as much of that as I was.\\n\\n But remember, Norm Thagard was the third member working with Bill Lenoir on the RMS, so he was no stranger to this system. So we worked hard to try to find a way to work Norm into that, and we ended up having him do one of the retrievals without it being written in the checklist that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s nice."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In 1982, NASA informed the public that Sally Ride was going to be the first American woman to fly in space. What sort of impact did that have on the crew and training?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 21.896567987865673, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, just like a dream, just like in the simulator. When you’re coming into very close proximity to the satellite and you’re going to retrieve it—this thing’s fifty feet long, and of course, it has some flexibility, and you can see it moving out there in a way that you’re really not commanding. So you’ve got to integrate into your thought process the commands that you put in relative to what you’re seeing out there on the end.\\n\\n It’s easy with a dynamic system to get into an unstable situation, where you’re trying to input a correction and, in fact, you just end up overdoing it. But that’s where the simulators came in handy, because we had seen that same type of thing, without quite the magnitude, in the simulations that we had done in Canada. The simulations that we did here didn’t pick that up, but the one that we did in Canada did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any suggestions that you or Sally made when you came back from the flight, any sort of changes that you suggested?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we suggested that they change the training on those switches on the PAMs. [Laughs] But not in terms of RMS, no. Somebody else came up with the solution to eliminate the tension on the snare wires before opening them, to stop the transfer of momentum. It wasn’t our suggestion. Somebody else did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, your mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about taking that photo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.107297764295193, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we suggested that they change the training on those switches on the PAMs. [Laughs] But not in terms of RMS, no. Somebody else came up with the solution to eliminate the tension on the snare wires before opening them, to stop the transfer of momentum. It wasn’t our suggestion. Somebody else did that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Actually, your mission was responsible for the agency’s first full photo of the Orbiter in space."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about taking that photo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked hard on that. We really worked hard on that, and we got a lot of help. We worked out the position, the arm in the shape of a seven for the seventh flight. And we didn’t tell anybody about this, of course. We had this on kind of a back-of-our-hand type of procedure, what angles each joint had to be in order for it to look like that.\\n\\n And then we had worked on the timing so that we could catch the Space Shuttle against that black sky with the horizon down below. That was the picture we most wanted. We most wanted the Shuttle against the black sky and the Earth’s horizon down below.\\n\\n Now, we got a lot of nice pictures, a lot of good pictures, against the cloud background and against the total black sky. Essentially, what we’re doing is we’re orienting this camera, which is on the SPAS. It had just a whole battery of cameras. It had a still camera. It had a TV camera. It had a motion picture camera. And so we’re running these various cameras by remote as we fly the Shuttle around it so that we can get the Shuttle in various types of positions.\\n\\n Yes, I was real proud of that. I was real proud of the work that Sally and I and Crip had done on getting that ready to go. Because it did. It gave you a really strong indication that, you know, this is a spaceship we’re talking about here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you participate in any of Norm Thagard’s experiments?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.563664182550212, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about taking that photo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "We worked hard on that. We really worked hard on that, and we got a lot of help. We worked out the position, the arm in the shape of a seven for the seventh flight. And we didn’t tell anybody about this, of course. We had this on kind of a back-of-our-hand type of procedure, what angles each joint had to be in order for it to look like that.\\n\\n And then we had worked on the timing so that we could catch the Space Shuttle against that black sky with the horizon down below. That was the picture we most wanted. We most wanted the Shuttle against the black sky and the Earth’s horizon down below.\\n\\n Now, we got a lot of nice pictures, a lot of good pictures, against the cloud background and against the total black sky. Essentially, what we’re doing is we’re orienting this camera, which is on the SPAS. It had just a whole battery of cameras. It had a still camera. It had a TV camera. It had a motion picture camera. And so we’re running these various cameras by remote as we fly the Shuttle around it so that we can get the Shuttle in various types of positions.\\n\\n Yes, I was real proud of that. I was real proud of the work that Sally and I and Crip had done on getting that ready to go. Because it did. It gave you a really strong indication that, you know, this is a spaceship we’re talking about here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you participate in any of Norm Thagard’s experiments?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Could you tell me about those?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 32.239089913179846, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were hit on the windshield by a small fleck of paint, and it made a hole about the size of a lima bean halfway through the outer of two panes of glass. We found out after the flight that it was one thickness of paint the size of a pinhead that had hit us. And it hits you with such enormous velocity that the kinetic energy associated with that small fleck of paint is enough to blast out that kind of a crater.\\n\\n So when you think about what a meteor would do hitting the Earth, here’s an example of—you know. The results are so much larger than the event itself that it’s staggering.\\n\\n Now, Crippen decided not to tell the ground that we’d been hit, and it didn’t come up until after the flight. And his rationale for that, I assume, was that there wasn’t anything that the ground could do to help us. The event had already occurred. We were perfectly safe. They would worry a lot. And so he elected not to say anything.\\n\\n I think after the flight he was—someone said something about that doing, but I think it was the right decision. I think that it clearly was something that was stable, and there wasn’t anything at all that the ground could do. We took some photographs of it to make sure that it was documented and so forth."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that by the time you flew on this mission your wife was working in one of the back rooms."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to speak with her at all while you were in flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. No, I didn’t. I enjoyed getting away for a few days. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back and pick what one event or what experience was the highlight of that mission, what do you think that would be?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 34.71009990353316, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you get a chance to speak with her at all while you were in flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No. No, I didn’t. I enjoyed getting away for a few days. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "If you had to look back and pick what one event or what experience was the highlight of that mission, what do you think that would be?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it’s hard to say anything other than landing. I mean, landing is such a great event. And of course, nothing else matters. Anything that was done right before, if the landing isn’t done right, then nothing else really matters.\\n\\n And I was not concerned about the landing, but I still think that it’s—it’s such a highlight. It’s what the Pilot and the Commander spend 90 percent of their waking moments before flight worrying about the landing, and it’s such a thrill to see it done and to see it done right and see it done well. And I know it means a great deal to them.\\n\\n They do a thousand of these things, so it’s going to work out all right, but there’ve been one or two landings that haven’t been perfect, and so it’s really nice to see a perfect landing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you and your other crew members do during your free time while you were in space?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 37, "return_to_go": 56.27805065191882, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t think Sally ever had to go out, except to do the hometowner type things, without some support. But the hometowner type things, you know, that’s not a big deal. But Sally in New York or Sally in Washington, D.C., she was a huge target. I mean, she really was a huge target.\\n\\n I think we would really be concerned about it today. If we were going through that experience in today’s political and terrorist environment, I think we would have reason to really be concerned about it. But fortunately, at the time all we had to worry about was Norm getting knocked into the wall. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Poor guy. We need to take a break for a second and change out our tape."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Fine.\\n\\n [Tape change]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So let’s talk about STS 51-G . Do you recall when you were told about this flight?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I really don’t. It wasn’t long after STS-7, maybe six months, but I don’t have any recollection of a meeting or a call or anything else. It must have been not a big deal, been there, done that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, tell us about training. Did it differ at all from your first mission?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.271682139793956, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it really does."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "—spoke so unhighly of."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back and ask you a couple of questions about the flight and actually before the flight. What did NASA astronauts think about this policy of allowing Payload Specialists to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different people felt different ways. I had no objection to it. In fact, I was in favor of it. I wanted to see the Air Force Payload Specialists fly with their satellites. I had worked with those people and with their satellites, and I could see a real rationale for their being on board. I felt like the Shuttle was giving us the capability to expand the flight environment to non-career people and that we ought to take advantage of that, certainly on the Spacelab missions. That was one of the things that we could do very well and did. And so a lot of people looked at it different ways.\\n\\n There were and will always be people who worry about what it meant in terms, or what it could mean, in terms of their own job security. That’s a perspective that you no doubt have already heard, but I didn’t feel that way. I felt that the—maybe that’s why George put me over there. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with any of the Payload Specialists?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:159", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 31.41298015532662, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let me go back and ask you a couple of questions about the flight and actually before the flight. What did NASA astronauts think about this policy of allowing Payload Specialists to fly?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Different people felt different ways. I had no objection to it. In fact, I was in favor of it. I wanted to see the Air Force Payload Specialists fly with their satellites. I had worked with those people and with their satellites, and I could see a real rationale for their being on board. I felt like the Shuttle was giving us the capability to expand the flight environment to non-career people and that we ought to take advantage of that, certainly on the Spacelab missions. That was one of the things that we could do very well and did. And so a lot of people looked at it different ways.\\n\\n There were and will always be people who worry about what it meant in terms, or what it could mean, in terms of their own job security. That’s a perspective that you no doubt have already heard, but I didn’t feel that way. I felt that the—maybe that’s why George put me over there. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you close with any of the Payload Specialists?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, not particularly. Other than the two that I flew with, I wasn’t particularly close to them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you had a crew member from France and then one from Saudi Arabia. Did you participate in any sort of cultural training activities before the flight?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:189", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.350651624742312, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was supposed to fly on Challenger in January of 1986. It was supposed to fly right when Challenger flew and we lost it. But by the time I flew my second flight, it had been delayed, it had been delayed into the summer or early fall of 1986.\\n\\n And the other flight that I was supposed to fly on was the Galileo flight, and that was supposed to come after the Spacelab Sciences flight. But by the time I left, the Spacelab Life Sciences had slipped yet further, and the Galileo flight would have occurred first."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Now, I read in the Roundup that you planned to leave NASA in the near future when you stepped down from your last flight, which was 61-G. What were you thinking about doing at that point? This was in the fall of ’85."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty-one-G."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry, 61-G."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t fly 61-G"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. This was a flight you had been assigned to but didn’t wind up flying."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:191", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.61183513860257, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Fifty-one-G."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I’m sorry, 61-G."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t fly 61-G"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. This was a flight you had been assigned to but didn’t wind up flying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and I said what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had told Public Affairs that you planned on leaving NASA at some point and you were stepping down from the flight. Did you have any idea what you might be doing at that point?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:193", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.013150154002854, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn’t fly 61-G"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No. This was a flight you had been assigned to but didn’t wind up flying."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and I said what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had told Public Affairs that you planned on leaving NASA at some point and you were stepping down from the flight. Did you have any idea what you might be doing at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about the source of that. I don’t remember saying that. I don’t remember saying that.\\n\\n I was looking for a job. My wife told me that my marriage had a two-flight limit, and I believed her, and so I was in the process of looking for a job. But one thing for sure was I wasn’t going to stay here. There was no way that I could bring myself to stay and work at the Space Center and not be an astronaut. I mean, that would send a lot of wrong signals to people. I know it’s been done a lot of times since but not under the same kind of circumstance.\\n\\n So I was looking for a job, and I was talking to major contractors, and I was talking with the Air Force, and I was talking with the University of Washington about a teaching job and so forth. I was literally looking for a job.\\n\\n But the rationale for leaving was all the same. It wasn’t that I was looking for a job or wanted to go do something else. I was going to go do something because I couldn’t continue to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ended up taking a job with the Air Force."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:195", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 26.68127794889206, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, and I said what?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had told Public Affairs that you planned on leaving NASA at some point and you were stepping down from the flight. Did you have any idea what you might be doing at that point?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know about the source of that. I don’t remember saying that. I don’t remember saying that.\\n\\n I was looking for a job. My wife told me that my marriage had a two-flight limit, and I believed her, and so I was in the process of looking for a job. But one thing for sure was I wasn’t going to stay here. There was no way that I could bring myself to stay and work at the Space Center and not be an astronaut. I mean, that would send a lot of wrong signals to people. I know it’s been done a lot of times since but not under the same kind of circumstance.\\n\\n So I was looking for a job, and I was talking to major contractors, and I was talking with the Air Force, and I was talking with the University of Washington about a teaching job and so forth. I was literally looking for a job.\\n\\n But the rationale for leaving was all the same. It wasn’t that I was looking for a job or wanted to go do something else. I was going to go do something because I couldn’t continue to do this."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you ended up taking a job with the Air Force."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that position?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:203", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.373689908386, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was right here. I was taking my annual physical. I was in the Flight Medicine Clinic, and somebody came down and said, “Wasn’t that a beautiful launch?” I mean, I knew the launch was going. And what had happened was Claudette – I don’t know if you ever knew her, Claudette [A.] Gage. She was a Chief Nurse at that Flight Medicine Clinic. She had been there just long enough to see it go up, clear the tower, start its roll, and so forth, but she had work to do so she came down.\\n\\n She said, “Oh that was a beautiful, beautiful launch.” And about ten seconds later, someone came into the room and said, “John, you’d better come.” So I went upstairs to the video and saw—of course, I knew immediately that it was an accident. I always considered Judy Resnik my best friend in the Astronaut Corps, of course she was on that, and I’d just been working with the Payload Specialist the month before. I’d gone to Washington, I’d reported in for work, but my annual physical was due, and so I came back down here to do the physical, and I happened to be here at that time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how was it that you were appointed to the investigative staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there. I was in Washington. The President had already announced the people who were going to be members of the commission. Sally was one of those people, and of course, I knew and respected and had worked well with Sally in the past.\\n\\n They were looking for experienced people to be on the staff of the commission, and I was asked to go over and talk with the Staff Director, who immediately put in a call to the Pentagon and had me assigned temporarily to work on the study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you work on the study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until the middle of June of the same year, about five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your duties as a member of the staff?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:205", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.63743323154, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was there. I was in Washington. The President had already announced the people who were going to be members of the commission. Sally was one of those people, and of course, I knew and respected and had worked well with Sally in the past.\\n\\n They were looking for experienced people to be on the staff of the commission, and I was asked to go over and talk with the Staff Director, who immediately put in a call to the Pentagon and had me assigned temporarily to work on the study."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And how long did you work on the study?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until the middle of June of the same year, about five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your duties as a member of the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s safety program, mission operations, pressures on the system, kind of the things that we’ve talked about. I wrote the chapter on the Silent Safety Program, which is a part of that, and, with Sally, wrote three of the other chapters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. In 1987 you left work with the Air Force, and you went to work for ANSER [Analytic Services Inc.]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:207", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 18, "return_to_go": 25.1527035906, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Until the middle of June of the same year, about five months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And what were your duties as a member of the staff?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s safety program, mission operations, pressures on the system, kind of the things that we’ve talked about. I wrote the chapter on the Silent Safety Program, which is a part of that, and, with Sally, wrote three of the other chapters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. In 1987 you left work with the Air Force, and you went to work for ANSER [Analytic Services Inc.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:209", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.947448434000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "NASA’s safety program, mission operations, pressures on the system, kind of the things that we’ve talked about. I wrote the chapter on the Silent Safety Program, which is a part of that, and, with Sally, wrote three of the other chapters."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Let’s see. In 1987 you left work with the Air Force, and you went to work for ANSER [Analytic Services Inc.]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ANSER is a public service research institute. It’s a non-profit, 501(c)(3), tax exempt research organization. It does work mostly for the federal government, in the past mostly for the Air Force and the Department of Defense but more recently for the Department of Homeland Security.\\n\\n I went there as the Vice President for Space Systems. I had been there about a year and a half when I was asked if I would consider moving up to Executive Vice President, with the thought being I would become the CEO [Chief Executive Officer]. Much to the surprise of some of the other Vice Presidents, I said yes. [Laughs] And then I stayed on as CEO for seven years before retiring and moving west.\\n\\n Good company, great people. It’s a kind of company where you can get the valedictorian out of MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] or Caltech [California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, California] or Ohio State [University, Columbus, Ohio] or [University of] Michigan [Ann Arbor, Michigan]. I worked with them, young kids, teaching them, you know, what’s going on with these huge projects. They work with you two years, three years, sometimes four or five, and then they go on to do other things but with a much better understanding of how the government works and how decisions are made in Washington and so on and so forth. A good company, and I think a real challenging type of a role, because you’re not the government so you don’t get to make the decisions, but at the same time, a lot of the weight of those decisions rests with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you’re retired and living back in Washington state?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:211", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 8.83049826, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "ANSER is a public service research institute. It’s a non-profit, 501(c)(3), tax exempt research organization. It does work mostly for the federal government, in the past mostly for the Air Force and the Department of Defense but more recently for the Department of Homeland Security.\\n\\n I went there as the Vice President for Space Systems. I had been there about a year and a half when I was asked if I would consider moving up to Executive Vice President, with the thought being I would become the CEO [Chief Executive Officer]. Much to the surprise of some of the other Vice Presidents, I said yes. [Laughs] And then I stayed on as CEO for seven years before retiring and moving west.\\n\\n Good company, great people. It’s a kind of company where you can get the valedictorian out of MIT [Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts] or Caltech [California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, California] or Ohio State [University, Columbus, Ohio] or [University of] Michigan [Ann Arbor, Michigan]. I worked with them, young kids, teaching them, you know, what’s going on with these huge projects. They work with you two years, three years, sometimes four or five, and then they go on to do other things but with a much better understanding of how the government works and how decisions are made in Washington and so on and so forth. A good company, and I think a real challenging type of a role, because you’re not the government so you don’t get to make the decisions, but at the same time, a lot of the weight of those decisions rests with you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And now you’re retired and living back in Washington state?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have any contact with NASA, do any sort of contracting work?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:215", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.198146000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And do you have any contact with NASA, do any sort of contracting work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to the Visitors Complex at the Kennedy Space Center three or four times a year, and I’m the Astronaut of the Day. They keep somebody there every day, including Christmas. Always an astronaut on duty, and so they pay my expenses to fly there and stay there, and they give me a stipend for being there which is more than generous. So yes, it’s a neat thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people most frequently ask you down out at KSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Were you scared when you launched?” One way or another they ask that question. “Have you seen any UFOs up there?” I love that. “How do you go to the bathroom in space?” Those are some of the favorite questions. “What do you have to do to be an astronaut?” That’s one you get both more from parents than from kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you stay in contact with any of the members of your previous crews?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:217", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 7.997940000000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I go to the Visitors Complex at the Kennedy Space Center three or four times a year, and I’m the Astronaut of the Day. They keep somebody there every day, including Christmas. Always an astronaut on duty, and so they pay my expenses to fly there and stay there, and they give me a stipend for being there which is more than generous. So yes, it’s a neat thing to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do people most frequently ask you down out at KSC?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Were you scared when you launched?” One way or another they ask that question. “Have you seen any UFOs up there?” I love that. “How do you go to the bathroom in space?” Those are some of the favorite questions. “What do you have to do to be an astronaut?” That’s one you get both more from parents than from kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you stay in contact with any of the members of your previous crews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not regularly, no. I hear from them from time to time, but we don’t have any regular contact. Like Shannon, we just exchanged e-mail addresses. I always stop by her office and leave her a message if she’s not there. [Whispering] She’s seldom there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s probably pretty busy."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:219", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.886600000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "“Were you scared when you launched?” One way or another they ask that question. “Have you seen any UFOs up there?” I love that. “How do you go to the bathroom in space?” Those are some of the favorite questions. “What do you have to do to be an astronaut?” That’s one you get both more from parents than from kids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you stay in contact with any of the members of your previous crews?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not regularly, no. I hear from them from time to time, but we don’t have any regular contact. Like Shannon, we just exchanged e-mail addresses. I always stop by her office and leave her a message if she’s not there. [Whispering] She’s seldom there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s probably pretty busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. She’s CapCom-ing right now as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good to know.\\n\\n I just have a couple of general questions for you, then I’m going to ask Sandra if she had any for you. If you had to look back over your time at JSC, what do you think would be your most challenging milestone?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00160:221", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.874, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not regularly, no. I hear from them from time to time, but we don’t have any regular contact. Like Shannon, we just exchanged e-mail addresses. I always stop by her office and leave her a message if she’s not there. [Whispering] She’s seldom there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "She’s probably pretty busy."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes. She’s CapCom-ing right now as a matter of fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s good to know.\\n\\n I just have a couple of general questions for you, then I’m going to ask Sandra if she had any for you. If you had to look back over your time at JSC, what do you think would be your most challenging milestone?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that’s a good question. I don’t think I’ve ever had it asked.\\n\\n You know, I think that when you come into a group like that, a group that is so highly selective, you don’t come into it with a lack of appreciation of your own talents and abilities, and you don’t come into it with a lot of self-doubt about what it is that you can do or might be capable of doing. But those thoughts are challenged. They’re challenged by the very nature of the people that you’re now involved with. And somehow, through the process of working with these people and working within the system and so forth, you need to come to an appreciation that your original thoughts are probably right, you do have capabilities, and you do have things to contribute, and so forth.\\n\\n But that’s not an easy decision to make when you see the greatness of the people that are around you. I think that that adjustment hits everybody who comes into the Astronaut Corps, because no one who comes into the Astronaut Corps has ever been a slacker, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you think was your most significant accomplishment while working in the Astronaut Office?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 66.92207340891382, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We were in a Columbia ETV project from February 1965 to January 1967."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So can you tell me a little bit about what your, you know, a little bit about your present day? You know, your family, where you currently reside, any interests you have?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "All right. Sure, I'd be glad to. I live in Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is outside of Atlanta, Georgia. Although I am certainly not a Georgian, I'm a New Yorker raised in Chicago. I met my husband in the Peace Corps. We were in the same project, worked together for two years and married after we got home a couple of months later. We now have, of course, it's 42 years later and we now have two children and four grandchildren, three granddaughters in Boston and one lovely little grandson here in Georgia with us. It's wonderful having a local grandchild. And I've had a checkered past in my career. I taught school for about 13 years and I had my own interior decorating business for about 13 years, and I did a lot of volunteer work and then the rest of my career years were spent in different kinds of offices, different kinds of office management. I was always on the office machines and learned the computer when we lived in Vienna, Virginia, and I worked for a manufacturing corporation and I worked. My latest job, I'm 73 years old now and I retired about, or I didn't really retire, my job disappeared out from under me. I was working for a criminal defense attorney right here in Lawrenceville, and that was a fascinating job. Absolutely fascinating."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's very nice. It was very nice. But they were, you know, they were expanding and they wanted all younger people doing everything, you know, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So thinking back to the year before you went into the Peace Corps, tell us a little bit about your childhood and your education and just other experiences. The year before."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 36.9066776977181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, no, no. He was born in 1906, died in 1994. And he married my mother's sister, who was a tad older than he, as was my mother. One year and three years. And she saved my life. If he hadn't married by the time. See, we were alone and I was doing the house for my whole teenage years from seventh grade to junior in high school. And if he hadn't have married, I would have been the little Italian girl staying home, you know, with a mustache taking care of her father, you know? It would have been rough."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would you have been able to go into the Peace Corps?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I wouldn't have been able to go to college. I wouldn't have gone. I wouldn't have gotten away from home, you know. I'm sure I'm sure I wouldn't have. I'm sure I wouldn't have. So and I probably would not have, you know, the mentality of that. I wouldn't have wanted to. I might have wanted to, but I wouldn't have thought it was my place to, you know. I was, you know, I did go to Catholic schools all the time. And when you're brought up with the nuns, you do what you're told, you know. That's something you can't break away from. So I don't think I would have done it to him and left him alone. So it was wonderful. It was wonderful."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell me a little bit more about the project that you said Brother Ryan had at Marquette University? What was it? What kind of preparation for Peace Corps was it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, it was fierce."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it just preparing people for that one country?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.84853967842588, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And Grover was, Grover was so insulted."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh my God, I can't believe they would even ask."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh they did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Maybe because they were thinking about the commitment that the two of you had."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I doubt it. But this was 1965 this was, this was probably '64. So poor Grover, he never got over that. So that was funny, when they started asking questions about you right in the neighborhood, you know. And then you got the paper that, uh, and you know, you really just had to believe this paperwork. You couldn't get on the phone and talk to anybody, you know? So we were all, it was all set that I would go, so they give you a list of what to bring. And we bought a trunk and I gave up my room at the boarding, you know, at the Gass' house, Celeste Gass. And I guess I came home. But my mother was not one for, um. First of all, they had a little house and they didn't have a basement, and there wasn't much for storage, storing things. And so, you know, she didn't want my boots there. So I moved away with just everything I owned with me and I gave. I was living in an apartment. That's not true that I left at. I was living in an apartment alone in Menominee Falls, Wisconsin, where I was teaching. That's true, I guess. And I did have to give some furniture away. I gave some beautiful tables I had to a girlfriend of mine to keep for me till I got back. And that was a little tacky, but she didn't want them back."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Of course not."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.19593459749225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, these were dentists. They would send us all of us, all the volunteers in who had fillings, and they'd take them out and redo them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So they'd redo them."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they take out your fillings and redo them. So 20 years later, the enamel on my teeth all fell off and I had to have crowns. Eight hundred dollars crowns they started at, and now there are seventeen hundred dollars and I feel like billing the government for those because they really were the cause of the problem. So on some days we went to the dentist. And then of course, we got all the shots, gamma globulin, and we got all of that, according to weight, how much we weighed. And we really had a wonderful time. We had a wonderful, wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was three months, it was three months. It was from January, February, March and April. And then we went a fourth month in Puerto Rico. Utilization went to Puerto Rico. The teachers went to Puerto Rico to work with the school system. And it was, the whole thing was a wonderful experience, we met marvelous people, we made good friends. The, uh, you know, there were a couple of black people. There were a lot of Jews because, you know, they're all interested in this thing. And of course, Vietnam was looming and there were a couple of draft people in there. But uh, they were all wonderful people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who wanted to dodge the draft?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.66214955276917, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, they take out your fillings and redo them. So 20 years later, the enamel on my teeth all fell off and I had to have crowns. Eight hundred dollars crowns they started at, and now there are seventeen hundred dollars and I feel like billing the government for those because they really were the cause of the problem. So on some days we went to the dentist. And then of course, we got all the shots, gamma globulin, and we got all of that, according to weight, how much we weighed. And we really had a wonderful time. We had a wonderful, wonderful time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long was that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was three months, it was three months. It was from January, February, March and April. And then we went a fourth month in Puerto Rico. Utilization went to Puerto Rico. The teachers went to Puerto Rico to work with the school system. And it was, the whole thing was a wonderful experience, we met marvelous people, we made good friends. The, uh, you know, there were a couple of black people. There were a lot of Jews because, you know, they're all interested in this thing. And of course, Vietnam was looming and there were a couple of draft people in there. But uh, they were all wonderful people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "People who wanted to dodge the draft?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, either dodge it or prolong it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Wow. So you were in Puerto Rico for a month learning about the school system and obviously using your Spanish?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.632283398480453, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, yeah, either dodge it or prolong it, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Wow. So you were in Puerto Rico for a month learning about the school system and obviously using your Spanish?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure, we lived with. Peggy and I, whom I see all the time, and Corky. Oh, was Corky with us? No, Peggy and I were there. We lived with two other girls, but it was two American girls who were doing some other kind of missionary work there, some kind of missionary work. But we worked with the school board and the school teachers, and we did our practice run really there and we made friends with the Department of Education, you know?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had our practice run there. That's where we got. And then on the 31st of May, we flew out of Puerto Rico into. Oh no, no, you know what we did? We, um, you know, I don't remember. We got a home leave in there. I think maybe after Puerto Rico, we went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. For how long?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:59", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.4102264178771, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But we had our practice run there. That's where we got. And then on the 31st of May, we flew out of Puerto Rico into. Oh no, no, you know what we did? We, um, you know, I don't remember. We got a home leave in there. I think maybe after Puerto Rico, we went home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Mm hmm. For how long?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, maybe a week. What's that, your phone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home to pack, you know, to get our trunk ready and put our sneakers in. And, you know, we were told what we would need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't take that to Los Angeles with you?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.78914046430789, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know, maybe a week. What's that, your phone?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home to pack, you know, to get our trunk ready and put our sneakers in. And, you know, we were told what we would need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't take that to Los Angeles with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. We just took what we needed for three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like homely for roughly about a week."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 37.54348940478655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We went home to pack, you know, to get our trunk ready and put our sneakers in. And, you know, we were told what we would need."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You didn't take that to Los Angeles with you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. We just took what we needed for three months."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it was like homely for roughly about a week."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week, yeah. And to say goodbye to people and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anybody who didn't go after they went home?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 17, "return_to_go": 46.34998691948957, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A week, yeah. And to say goodbye to people and everything."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there anybody who didn't go after they went home?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, OK."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't remember that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So tell us a little bit about specifically what you did. Where were you located in Colombia and what was your specific job? What would you do on a daily basis?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 13, "return_to_go": 26.768948800505736, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I can't answer that. I don't know. It was small, but I'll tell you today it is big. Forty years later, every place I went last two years ago in Colombia.\n\nGo on, we could talk forever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you were talking a little bit about Ibagué."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ibagué, yes. Today Ibagué is for me, and of course, I'm no expert, the most changed city in the 40 years I was gone. Ibagué has exploded. We could not even find our old neighborhood. But the gobernación building is still there. We stayed in a hotel directly across the street. It was very, very much deja vu. And at the time we were there two years ago, was when the kidnappings, FARC had kidnapped all those people. There was a banner the size they hang at the Kennedy Center. The banner must have been 50 feet by 20 feet, hanging down with pictures of these hostages. And, you know, just after that, that lady was released. You know that, I forget the name, it begins with a B, I'll think of it. So it was, you know, the political situation is still very iffy."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So when you were talking about the in-services that you would do for teachers, that was in Ibagué?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was in Ibagué. Now, so we changed in midstream, half a year, I mean, at one-year point. The three of us were split up. I think they thought we were having too much fun because everybody was, all the men were coming to Ibagué for the parties and Folclórico and all that stuff. And we had an apartment and we had a lot of room. We had a roof that became quite popular."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you lived in a house with two other women from Peace Corps as well."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.51509031432553, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's still a mystery. I'm not quite sure how that worked. The three of us hung around together, Bill, Bill and me. All the time. And we were fairly, um, I guess we were considered the square- ist of the bunch. I'm not sure, but that's what it was. Because whenever one of the men, one of the young men, one of the other men would try to would get serious with a girl. He'd ask if he could, if they could come to the movies with us or could we have dinner. Like, could Janet and I have dinner with you guys tonight? Well, sure, fine. So people would ask me, Bunny."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Keeping up appearances."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bunny, and I was a little bit unaware of this when it was happening, which one of them are you dating? And I said, I don't know. I really don't know. And I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 11.683433682583921, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Evidently."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Bunny, and I was a little bit unaware of this when it was happening, which one of them are you dating? And I said, I don't know. I really don't know. And I didn't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I didn't know. So we had decided, the three of us, to have a little business when we got home, a little export and import business. And we bought several, we bought a lot of inventory from the craftsman, the artisans. And so we had my dad who was in advertising with his company, do a, you know, a lookout for three cities where we were from, Dallas, Chicago, and New York, where the three of us were from. And it turned out that Dallas was the best place to open that kind of a shot. So we were going to do that, and we had all that stuff shipped home and then we couldn't get a loan. The three of us went to the banks to try to get a loan in Dallas. And none of us had a job."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do with all this stuff?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 14.654915888318135, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, we still have it. A lot of it, a lot of it. We still have it. And we did give some of it away. We donated some of it. The rugs we still have. My kids grew up with them. And the artwork. And so when it was clear that, and we had a few shows. Bill's mother who was a go getter, she organized an art show in Dallas for us at a lovely gallery and that went over very well. But we didn't sell enough stuff you know to, and we really did not know what we were doing. We just had guts. And by that time, I was 31 years old and the two boys were a little younger, so it became clear that we were not going to, uh. So we were home. I still didn't know who I was dating. So we came home and we were staying. It was clear that the show was over in Dallas. The store was not going to go. The other guy was going back to graduate school and I was going back to teach in Milwaukee. And Bill asked me if I could spend the rest of his life with him. And I had to say, well, do you love me? You know, the subject never came up. So he said, he told me once and if he changes his mind, he'll let me know."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, wow. Cute."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's how. So no, we didn't date, you wouldn't dare do a thing. All the kids who were sleeping together, they're the ones who wanted to come have dinner with us when they got serious, you know. They thought, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have a good alibi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny. So how long after you came back did you get married?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 9.616573209242372, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So that's how. So no, we didn't date, you wouldn't dare do a thing. All the kids who were sleeping together, they're the ones who wanted to come have dinner with us when they got serious, you know. They thought, well."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They have a good alibi."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny. So how long after you came back did you get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we came back. It was Lent, you know, and we were Catholic at the time, and you couldn't get married in the Catholic Church during Lent, which is stupid. But I think they've changed that. But anyway, this happened in, I think, late January when we came home and we got married April 1st, April Fool's Day, was the first Saturday after Lent, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so cute, so that's your anniversary."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:107", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 9.573970232491524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny. So how long after you came back did you get married?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we came back. It was Lent, you know, and we were Catholic at the time, and you couldn't get married in the Catholic Church during Lent, which is stupid. But I think they've changed that. But anyway, this happened in, I think, late January when we came home and we got married April 1st, April Fool's Day, was the first Saturday after Lent, so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so cute, so that's your anniversary."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's our anniversary, yes. We can always get out of it. April Fool's."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's so funny. Well, when you think about, what would you say is probably your biggest thing that you're most, you feel was your biggest accomplishment while you were overseas? And the pluses and minuses."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 11.898450250331308, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think bringing goodwill to people, I think making people. My biggest accomplishment was making a lot of those people feel good about themselves. You know, I think that was the the biggest thing. And then the overall picture. That's what I did personally. But the overall picture of what we all did together as our group, we brought an enormous amount of education to those people."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the goal. We trained people. See, these in- house seminars we were doing was to train counterparts to take our place. And I think we did that. I think we did that effectively. So that was, it was a successful project. It was a very successful project. There were a lot of dumb things that happened and we made mistakes. And you know, a lot of those kids were awfully young and do what young people do. But overall, I think, it was worth every cent that the American people put into it. And I think what we've gotten out of it is, you know, you return people to the United States who have a much, much greater understanding of humanity, you know, of what makes the world go round."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that so. I personally don't think I made any enormous accomplishment, but I did make a lot of people feel good. And they all liked me and I taught them how to do some things for themselves. And it was very good. I made some lifetime friends for myself, but I really think we got as much, if not more, out of that than we gave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a pretty common answer that I hear from people too."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.220500278145897, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And that was the goal. We trained people. See, these in- house seminars we were doing was to train counterparts to take our place. And I think we did that. I think we did that effectively. So that was, it was a successful project. It was a very successful project. There were a lot of dumb things that happened and we made mistakes. And you know, a lot of those kids were awfully young and do what young people do. But overall, I think, it was worth every cent that the American people put into it. And I think what we've gotten out of it is, you know, you return people to the United States who have a much, much greater understanding of humanity, you know, of what makes the world go round."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that so. I personally don't think I made any enormous accomplishment, but I did make a lot of people feel good. And they all liked me and I taught them how to do some things for themselves. And it was very good. I made some lifetime friends for myself, but I really think we got as much, if not more, out of that than we gave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a pretty common answer that I hear from people too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, I'll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Bill, your husband. Tell us about your involvement since Peace Corps, because you have been back to Colombia."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 14.68944475349544, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think that so. I personally don't think I made any enormous accomplishment, but I did make a lot of people feel good. And they all liked me and I taught them how to do some things for themselves. And it was very good. I made some lifetime friends for myself, but I really think we got as much, if not more, out of that than we gave."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's a pretty common answer that I hear from people too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, I'll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Bill, your husband. Tell us about your involvement since Peace Corps, because you have been back to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have, but only that once and only recently. You get bogged down in your own life. Now when you come back, immediately everybody wants to hear about it. So I forget what he did, frankly. But I can remember doing slide shows for groups who wanted to hear about it. And I don't know if anybody ever went in the Peace Corps because of my speech, but I had a lot of nice slides and gave a very upbeat and kind of in-depth explanation of what the whole thing was. And of course, you know, when you do this for little kids, they ask all the wrong dumb questions, you know, so you try to gear them toward the important things, you know, and not how much mud did you step in, you know, and all that stuff. But I did a lot of that when I first came back. And I taught school again for many years after I got back, in a couple of cities, and I always integrated it into that. And then, you know, we decorated our house with a lot of the artifacts we had. But I'll tell you, our children had no interest, no interest. But we've always been, you know, very willing to help wherever it's needed and to help foreign people, especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't you guys adopt some kids too?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 12.988271948328267, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes, I'll bet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you and Bill, your husband. Tell us about your involvement since Peace Corps, because you have been back to Colombia."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have, but only that once and only recently. You get bogged down in your own life. Now when you come back, immediately everybody wants to hear about it. So I forget what he did, frankly. But I can remember doing slide shows for groups who wanted to hear about it. And I don't know if anybody ever went in the Peace Corps because of my speech, but I had a lot of nice slides and gave a very upbeat and kind of in-depth explanation of what the whole thing was. And of course, you know, when you do this for little kids, they ask all the wrong dumb questions, you know, so you try to gear them toward the important things, you know, and not how much mud did you step in, you know, and all that stuff. But I did a lot of that when I first came back. And I taught school again for many years after I got back, in a couple of cities, and I always integrated it into that. And then, you know, we decorated our house with a lot of the artifacts we had. But I'll tell you, our children had no interest, no interest. But we've always been, you know, very willing to help wherever it's needed and to help foreign people, especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't you guys adopt some kids too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we do. Korita's coming over but not until about 3:00. Yeah, we have one adopted daughter. We have a son of our own. And Korita is a native of South Korea, and she now has one child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I figured that from the picture on the end."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 13.320302164809185, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "We have, but only that once and only recently. You get bogged down in your own life. Now when you come back, immediately everybody wants to hear about it. So I forget what he did, frankly. But I can remember doing slide shows for groups who wanted to hear about it. And I don't know if anybody ever went in the Peace Corps because of my speech, but I had a lot of nice slides and gave a very upbeat and kind of in-depth explanation of what the whole thing was. And of course, you know, when you do this for little kids, they ask all the wrong dumb questions, you know, so you try to gear them toward the important things, you know, and not how much mud did you step in, you know, and all that stuff. But I did a lot of that when I first came back. And I taught school again for many years after I got back, in a couple of cities, and I always integrated it into that. And then, you know, we decorated our house with a lot of the artifacts we had. But I'll tell you, our children had no interest, no interest. But we've always been, you know, very willing to help wherever it's needed and to help foreign people, especially."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Didn't you guys adopt some kids too?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we do. Korita's coming over but not until about 3:00. Yeah, we have one adopted daughter. We have a son of our own. And Korita is a native of South Korea, and she now has one child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I figured that from the picture on the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, so yes. And Peggy, the girl I mentioned, has remained single, but she adopted a girl from Nepal. Peggy went back into the Peace Corps as a director, and she became the director of, oh shoot, Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she ever from New Jersey?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.57811351645465, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, we do. Korita's coming over but not until about 3:00. Yeah, we have one adopted daughter. We have a son of our own. And Korita is a native of South Korea, and she now has one child."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I figured that from the picture on the end."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, so yes. And Peggy, the girl I mentioned, has remained single, but she adopted a girl from Nepal. Peggy went back into the Peace Corps as a director, and she became the director of, oh shoot, Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she ever from New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was from Queens, New York. Peggy Smith."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's funny because my father in law, who is from, um, what did I say, Jersey City. He was dating a woman that went into the Peace Corps, and they used to call her Peggy Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 13.975681684949611, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, so yes. And Peggy, the girl I mentioned, has remained single, but she adopted a girl from Nepal. Peggy went back into the Peace Corps as a director, and she became the director of, oh shoot, Nepal."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was she ever from New Jersey?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "She was from Queens, New York. Peggy Smith."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's funny because my father in law, who is from, um, what did I say, Jersey City. He was dating a woman that went into the Peace Corps, and they used to call her Peggy Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Cause she left to go into the Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 7.624298376481001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, really?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yeah. Cause she left to go into the Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't think it was she. She was a teacher before she went in, and then she got her master's degree in guidance. All of them got master's degrees except me. And Hetzer, who's just who retired a couple of years ago from UNICEF, he got his master's degree and Bill got his. Peggy went into guidance and counseling and then adopted this baby from Nepal and couldn't make enough money teaching to raise her the way she wanted to. She's never married, and so she went into business with DuPont and did better, is now retired from there and is now teaching. And she's 70 years old. She's teaching in junior colleges in Delaware."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Wow."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we all keep going. Yeah, we all keep going. Yeah, I worked until I was 70, and Bill was 69. He'll be working well past 70. Of course, I don't know that we all planned to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, obviously you've enjoyed what you've done."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 4.474442440100001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So we all keep going. Yeah, we all keep going. Yeah, I worked until I was 70, and Bill was 69. He'll be working well past 70. Of course, I don't know that we all planned to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, obviously you've enjoyed what you've done."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have. We have. We have. After I finished teaching, I opened a, I studied interior decorating and I did that for 13 years. I had my own business and I guess I said that. Uh, but Corky used to say, so that those kinds of things show up early. When I did go in the Peace Corps, my very best friend had already had five children. She had five children in seven years, and I'm picking up the pieces of that now. They're all in their fifties and she's gone and they're all screwed up. But one of them's my god child whom I truly worry about, so that should not happen. But at any rate, uh. I used to, they were my kids. I loved these kids. I was the old maid schoolteacher. So and their last name was Kirby. So my one roommate said, anything you bring in this place, anything, Bunny's going to either put flowers in it, hang it on the wall, or send it to the Kirby kids. So don't bring anything in this house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a friend of yours from the neighborhood or was this a Peace Corps friend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the Peace Corps neighborhood. This was our apartment in Ibagué. Yeah, yeah, she's going to put flowers in it, hang it on the wall, or so. I was decorating a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she had her kids when she came back from Peace Corps."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:135", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 2.749380489000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, we have. We have. We have. After I finished teaching, I opened a, I studied interior decorating and I did that for 13 years. I had my own business and I guess I said that. Uh, but Corky used to say, so that those kinds of things show up early. When I did go in the Peace Corps, my very best friend had already had five children. She had five children in seven years, and I'm picking up the pieces of that now. They're all in their fifties and she's gone and they're all screwed up. But one of them's my god child whom I truly worry about, so that should not happen. But at any rate, uh. I used to, they were my kids. I loved these kids. I was the old maid schoolteacher. So and their last name was Kirby. So my one roommate said, anything you bring in this place, anything, Bunny's going to either put flowers in it, hang it on the wall, or send it to the Kirby kids. So don't bring anything in this house."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this a friend of yours from the neighborhood or was this a Peace Corps friend?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the Peace Corps neighborhood. This was our apartment in Ibagué. Yeah, yeah, she's going to put flowers in it, hang it on the wall, or so. I was decorating a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she had her kids when she came back from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she had one. The friend that said that had married a man 20 years older than she. So she's a widow now, and she had one child. But the third girl, Peggy, never married anybody and her daughter that she adopted from Nepal, is married and was teaching for a long time, was teaching English literature, Victorian literature, to gifted and talented high school kids, believe it or not. This girl from Nepal is speaking in English, teaching literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It truly is an international world."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:137", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0548672100000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is the Peace Corps neighborhood. This was our apartment in Ibagué. Yeah, yeah, she's going to put flowers in it, hang it on the wall, or so. I was decorating a long time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So she had her kids when she came back from Peace Corps."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she had one. The friend that said that had married a man 20 years older than she. So she's a widow now, and she had one child. But the third girl, Peggy, never married anybody and her daughter that she adopted from Nepal, is married and was teaching for a long time, was teaching English literature, Victorian literature, to gifted and talented high school kids, believe it or not. This girl from Nepal is speaking in English, teaching literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It truly is an international world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's amazing. It's amazing. So she's changed jobs now. But um, they've all been successful as far as I know. We've lost a few. I mean, some of, of course, we're getting old. Some of us have died, but some of them went off the deep end and, you know, won't keep in touch and, you know, are not interested in the reunions and things. There's quite a cadre of them that do and keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything from your interview that you feel like you want to add or any other?"}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:139", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3942969000000005, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah, she had one. The friend that said that had married a man 20 years older than she. So she's a widow now, and she had one child. But the third girl, Peggy, never married anybody and her daughter that she adopted from Nepal, is married and was teaching for a long time, was teaching English literature, Victorian literature, to gifted and talented high school kids, believe it or not. This girl from Nepal is speaking in English, teaching literature."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It truly is an international world."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's amazing. It's amazing. So she's changed jobs now. But um, they've all been successful as far as I know. We've lost a few. I mean, some of, of course, we're getting old. Some of us have died, but some of them went off the deep end and, you know, won't keep in touch and, you know, are not interested in the reunions and things. There's quite a cadre of them that do and keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything from your interview that you feel like you want to add or any other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the minute you go I'll think of it. You know, what do we do with, tell me what we do with any kind of pictures or photographs or letters or documents?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This actually, well let me just thank you first and then we can talk about it. But thank you so much for taking the time and giving your interview. I'm sure you know, generations to come will really enjoy this interview."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7714410000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It's amazing. It's amazing. So she's changed jobs now. But um, they've all been successful as far as I know. We've lost a few. I mean, some of, of course, we're getting old. Some of us have died, but some of them went off the deep end and, you know, won't keep in touch and, you know, are not interested in the reunions and things. There's quite a cadre of them that do and keep in touch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, is there anything from your interview that you feel like you want to add or any other?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you know, the minute you go I'll think of it. You know, what do we do with, tell me what we do with any kind of pictures or photographs or letters or documents?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "This actually, well let me just thank you first and then we can talk about it. But thank you so much for taking the time and giving your interview. I'm sure you know, generations to come will really enjoy this interview."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I hope so. I want them to know that we did have a wonderful time and there was nothing, nothing terrible about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's just neat too to see how Peace Corps has evolved over the years and how things were done when you were in service."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 4.6561, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I hope so. I want them to know that we did have a wonderful time and there was nothing, nothing terrible about it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's just neat too to see how Peace Corps has evolved over the years and how things were done when you were in service."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, that's right. I'm sure it's very much changed."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It has."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much changed. I'd be interested to know what they're doing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although, you know, the three goals of Peace Corps are the same, you know, the basic things are still the same."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:149", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very much changed. I'd be interested to know what they're doing now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Although, you know, the three goals of Peace Corps are the same, you know, the basic things are still the same."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, what I think has stayed with us innately is flexibility. They always said in training, and I had never heard that word too much, until I was 29 years old. But they always said, you've got to be flexible. Flexibility, flexibility. You've got to be able to change plans in the middle of the stream. You got to be able to go with the flow, you've got to be. And we are the two, the oldest people we know who can really do anything at any time and change plans. Don't bring this, bring that. Don't come at 3:00, come at 4:00. Don't do this, don't do that. Even my daughter is so rigid. They're so rigid. They change their minds. I said, just don't worry, Daddy and I'll do whatever you want. You know, whatever you want, you want a Thanksgiving in Paris, we'll be in Paris. You want to come late, we'll be late. You want, you know, just, you know. So that did stay with us because that was not always a trait of mine. Bill might have been a little more flexible, but not. Although he's a musician and that's precise and he was a television director for that. You know, when you fade to black, it's got to go. Bingo. It's, you know, things are timed in television and in organ playing, they're timed perfectly. But aside from that, he's incredibly flexible. So that's good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flexibility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I changed my mind about this. Well, what do you think? You know, it's important and gets you through a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sure does."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:151", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.9, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You know, what I think has stayed with us innately is flexibility. They always said in training, and I had never heard that word too much, until I was 29 years old. But they always said, you've got to be flexible. Flexibility, flexibility. You've got to be able to change plans in the middle of the stream. You got to be able to go with the flow, you've got to be. And we are the two, the oldest people we know who can really do anything at any time and change plans. Don't bring this, bring that. Don't come at 3:00, come at 4:00. Don't do this, don't do that. Even my daughter is so rigid. They're so rigid. They change their minds. I said, just don't worry, Daddy and I'll do whatever you want. You know, whatever you want, you want a Thanksgiving in Paris, we'll be in Paris. You want to come late, we'll be late. You want, you know, just, you know. So that did stay with us because that was not always a trait of mine. Bill might have been a little more flexible, but not. Although he's a musician and that's precise and he was a television director for that. You know, when you fade to black, it's got to go. Bingo. It's, you know, things are timed in television and in organ playing, they're timed perfectly. But aside from that, he's incredibly flexible. So that's good."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Flexibility."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I changed my mind about this. Well, what do you think? You know, it's important and gets you through a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sure does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and my daughter hasn't learned that yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, she has a young baby so."}]}
{"block_id": "returned-peace-corps-volunteers-00237:153", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yeah. You know, I changed my mind about this. Well, what do you think? You know, it's important and gets you through a lot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sure does."}, {"role": "user", "content": "So and my daughter hasn't learned that yet."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You know, she has a young baby so."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Oh, she has gotten so relaxed. I can't believe it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Thank you so much."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.3277812659728, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. I couldn't be more thrilled."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And me, too. To begin with, maybe you could tell me about how your interest in aviation began."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in a way it's kind of like [STS-93 Shuttle Commander] Eileen [M.] Collins, who's flying today. We used to ride out to the airport on Sunday afternoons and watch the airplanes fly, and that's how she got started. I think she was watching gliders. I wrote away to all the aviation manufacturers, saying, \"My father wants to buy an airplane. Please send me all the information.\" And this was all when I was eight, nine, ten years old. I became interested pretty much that way. In fact, my entire family did, and my mother and father and I all three started at the same time. But a lot of people around the airport would always take this little girl up to fly.\\n\\n I probably shouldn't tell you, but I soloed when I was twelve, and it wasn't quite legal then, so I couldn't tell anybody. But I figure now, about fifty years later, nobody will bother me about it. In fact, I didn't tell my mother for about a week. My dad said, \"You can't tell anybody at all.\" So I didn't. She was a little surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. The thing that amazed me most about it was that when a person gets out of an airplane, especially a little two-seater airplane, the lift is so much faster and the airplane just went up as though there was nobody in it at all. It was amazing. But it was a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it was. And the first of many great experiences to come for you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 29.253090295525332, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, in a way it's kind of like [STS-93 Shuttle Commander] Eileen [M.] Collins, who's flying today. We used to ride out to the airport on Sunday afternoons and watch the airplanes fly, and that's how she got started. I think she was watching gliders. I wrote away to all the aviation manufacturers, saying, \"My father wants to buy an airplane. Please send me all the information.\" And this was all when I was eight, nine, ten years old. I became interested pretty much that way. In fact, my entire family did, and my mother and father and I all three started at the same time. But a lot of people around the airport would always take this little girl up to fly.\\n\\n I probably shouldn't tell you, but I soloed when I was twelve, and it wasn't quite legal then, so I couldn't tell anybody. But I figure now, about fifty years later, nobody will bother me about it. In fact, I didn't tell my mother for about a week. My dad said, \"You can't tell anybody at all.\" So I didn't. She was a little surprised."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a flight."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. The thing that amazed me most about it was that when a person gets out of an airplane, especially a little two-seater airplane, the lift is so much faster and the airplane just went up as though there was nobody in it at all. It was amazing. But it was a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it was. And the first of many great experiences to come for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been quite lucky, really have, although I don't believe in luck. I'd rather say I was fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite. As you were growing up with airplanes and aviation and continuing on, if you could give a brief synopsis of your early—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:5", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 24.725655883917035, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. The thing that amazed me most about it was that when a person gets out of an airplane, especially a little two-seater airplane, the lift is so much faster and the airplane just went up as though there was nobody in it at all. It was amazing. But it was a great experience."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I bet it was. And the first of many great experiences to come for you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been quite lucky, really have, although I don't believe in luck. I'd rather say I was fortunate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Quite. As you were growing up with airplanes and aviation and continuing on, if you could give a brief synopsis of your early—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, the Navy really inspired me. I was born in Pensacola and spent my very young years sitting on the back steps of our little house watching the N3N Stearmans fly overhead, where the cadets were learning how to do aerobatics. That didn't quite sink in as far as aerobatics went, but my great love for flying came at that time. Then after we started flying, I went to work when I was very young. We were not a very wealthy family. The only way I could fly was to work toward it.\\n\\n Then I began working for Eastern Airlines. I fibbed to them about my age and got a job about three weeks before I graduated from high school. Then I would work from midnight to eight so I could fly during the daytime. Became a flight instructor, got a commercial and other ratings and kind of went from there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you first begin doing aerobatics?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:11", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.4645485376091, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, by this time we were in Tampa, Florida. My dad had a flight operation there. They were having a local air show and somebody at the meeting said, \"Why don't we have that little girl out at the airport do some aerobatics.\" And my dad was there and he said, \"She doesn't know how.\" And another man who was there, Clem Whittenbeck, who was a great aerobatic pilot in the thirties—I'm talking about back in the forties now—he said, \"Oh, I'll teach her how.\" So in a couple of weeks that was left until show time, he taught me how to do one loop and one slow roll.\\n\\n The day of the show, I flew so high to be very careful, that I didn't believe anybody could see me at all, but when I landed, a man who owned an airport not very far away came up and said, \"We're having a show pretty soon. How much would you charge to come fly in our show?\" And that's when I became a professional aerobatic pilot. [Laughter] It was quite by accident."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "On the spur of the moment."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were doing all of this and working with your family and with other people out at the airport, did any of your male counterparts ever seem surprised or have any—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, pretty much so. I did not date in high school because I was so busy with flying, and that was the most important thing to me. I also worked after school and on weekends. There was just hardly time to date. I learned many years later, on a reunion of our high school class, that most of the guys were a little afraid of me because I started flying and flew solo long before I learned to drive a car, and they weren't even driving cars then. So I guess my interests were just different, just a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very unique interest at the time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 26.071720597343443, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were doing all of this and working with your family and with other people out at the airport, did any of your male counterparts ever seem surprised or have any—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, pretty much so. I did not date in high school because I was so busy with flying, and that was the most important thing to me. I also worked after school and on weekends. There was just hardly time to date. I learned many years later, on a reunion of our high school class, that most of the guys were a little afraid of me because I started flying and flew solo long before I learned to drive a car, and they weren't even driving cars then. So I guess my interests were just different, just a little different."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very unique interest at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you continued to do the aerobatics, did you ever stop and consider, \"Wow! Look at this! Look what I'm doing.\" Did you ever have any thoughts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.01446987326351, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you continued to do the aerobatics, did you ever stop and consider, \"Wow! Look at this! Look what I'm doing.\" Did you ever have any thoughts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had wonderful thoughts. I spent many thousands of hours sitting in this little airplane, flying from one city to another in the United States and in England and Ireland. Sure, you have a lot of time to think. But, yes, I felt extremely fortunate, very fortunate to be able to fly, to do the things I was doing, and mainly the people that I met. I think the aviation community, which has now turned into the space community, they're probably the finest people in the world. And the fans are wonderful, and those who fly and understand flying, it's really a great honor to be associated with them. I loved every minute of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great to be able to say that, to have such an exciting and fun time throughout your whole life."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:19", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 28.904966525848344, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I had wonderful thoughts. I spent many thousands of hours sitting in this little airplane, flying from one city to another in the United States and in England and Ireland. Sure, you have a lot of time to think. But, yes, I felt extremely fortunate, very fortunate to be able to fly, to do the things I was doing, and mainly the people that I met. I think the aviation community, which has now turned into the space community, they're probably the finest people in the world. And the fans are wonderful, and those who fly and understand flying, it's really a great honor to be associated with them. I loved every minute of it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great to be able to say that, to have such an exciting and fun time throughout your whole life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever stop and think about the danger involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 32.11662947316483, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it was. It really was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great to be able to say that, to have such an exciting and fun time throughout your whole life."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever stop and think about the danger involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think anytime you undertake anything with a piece of mechanized equipment, as I call it, like a car or an airplane or a boat, or any of these things, you immediately know that there's a danger involved, but if you were concerned about that, you wouldn't be participating in those kinds of things. You consider danger only from the standpoint that it's up to you to know what you're doing, to do your best, to be very careful about it and very thorough about it, and learn everything you can about it. No, I never really worried about it, even though I had quite a few close calls. And in those instances you're so busy, you don't think about it anyway. So I can honestly say I was never really afraid. I've never been what I would call afraid. Now, there were a few times perhaps when you were lost in an airplane, you'd be temporarily confused, but not necessarily afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Always managed to keep your cool under whatever circumstances might arise."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 35.68514385907203, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that's true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you ever stop and think about the danger involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think anytime you undertake anything with a piece of mechanized equipment, as I call it, like a car or an airplane or a boat, or any of these things, you immediately know that there's a danger involved, but if you were concerned about that, you wouldn't be participating in those kinds of things. You consider danger only from the standpoint that it's up to you to know what you're doing, to do your best, to be very careful about it and very thorough about it, and learn everything you can about it. No, I never really worried about it, even though I had quite a few close calls. And in those instances you're so busy, you don't think about it anyway. So I can honestly say I was never really afraid. I've never been what I would call afraid. Now, there were a few times perhaps when you were lost in an airplane, you'd be temporarily confused, but not necessarily afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Always managed to keep your cool under whatever circumstances might arise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you sure try. You really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that helps in being able, if it is a situation where something's gone wrong, if you're able to stay calm, it makes it a lot easier to—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 38.53904873230225, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I think anytime you undertake anything with a piece of mechanized equipment, as I call it, like a car or an airplane or a boat, or any of these things, you immediately know that there's a danger involved, but if you were concerned about that, you wouldn't be participating in those kinds of things. You consider danger only from the standpoint that it's up to you to know what you're doing, to do your best, to be very careful about it and very thorough about it, and learn everything you can about it. No, I never really worried about it, even though I had quite a few close calls. And in those instances you're so busy, you don't think about it anyway. So I can honestly say I was never really afraid. I've never been what I would call afraid. Now, there were a few times perhaps when you were lost in an airplane, you'd be temporarily confused, but not necessarily afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's good. Always managed to keep your cool under whatever circumstances might arise."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you sure try. You really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that helps in being able, if it is a situation where something's gone wrong, if you're able to stay calm, it makes it a lot easier to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you really have a dangerous situation, you are so very, very busy determining—not determining, but doing, because you've already determined that long before you have a problem, what you would do in case of. And you're so very busy, you don't think about it. Now, I will admit, after a couple of pretty close calls, several hours later you give it a little thought, but not at the time. You really don't have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were continuing to fly and even travel around the world, had you ever thought about space travel as a possibility?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 38.376720813669166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, you sure try. You really do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure that helps in being able, if it is a situation where something's gone wrong, if you're able to stay calm, it makes it a lot easier to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, if you really have a dangerous situation, you are so very, very busy determining—not determining, but doing, because you've already determined that long before you have a problem, what you would do in case of. And you're so very busy, you don't think about it. Now, I will admit, after a couple of pretty close calls, several hours later you give it a little thought, but not at the time. You really don't have time."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As you were continuing to fly and even travel around the world, had you ever thought about space travel as a possibility?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I have to admit that I had, because in 1948 I became extremely interested in UFOs [unidentified flying objects]. There were quite a few people in the aviation community that felt the same way I did about it. A fellow named [Donald] Keyhoe wrote a couple of books, one called Flying Saucers are Real, and Flying Saucers from Outer Space, I believe was his second book, and I read every page. My father thought I was crazy. [Laughter] But, yes, I became interested in space quite a long time ago."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "At the time, did you think that space travel was in the immediate future?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:33", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 37.553800841795834, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, I knew that it could not be, due to the state of things in the aviation world at that time. You must remember I started out in air show work in a 1929 model Great Lakes airplane, a 2T1A. And then I was fortunate enough to meet a man named Curtis Pitts, who designed airplanes, or was endeavoring to design an airplane at that time. The first time I ever saw his airplane, I fell in love with it, the only one that he had, and I tried to get it to fly and it wasn't available. I just followed it till I finally was at a point where they were able to let me have it.\\n\\n It was the second Pitts Special airplane ever built. Now there are thousands and thousands around the world. But at that time the first one that he designed and built was almost immediately crashed by a crop duster in Georgia, and the second one, serial number 2, is the one that I was able to obtain. It is now in the National Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian [Institution]. And I'm thrilled to say that when it was fifty years old, they started complete reconstruction on it, and a wonderful gal there, a curator named Dorothy Cochrane, started reconstruction on it. It's just about finished now, and it looks like a brand-new airplane and it's just beautiful. Very thrilled over it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is it being restored far enough that it will be flyable?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, no, they don't usually fly their equipment after they restore it. It goes on display in the National Air and Space Museum. In fact, I think they have a policy that you don't fly their equipment after they rebuild it and display it. It's beautifully done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will be wonderful when it is all finished and you're able to see it and have other people be able to come and visit and see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And share in that part of history."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.504223157550925, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Well, no, they don't usually fly their equipment after they restore it. It goes on display in the National Air and Space Museum. In fact, I think they have a policy that you don't fly their equipment after they rebuild it and display it. It's beautifully done."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That will be wonderful when it is all finished and you're able to see it and have other people be able to come and visit and see it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And share in that part of history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That possibly will happen this fall or next spring, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll look forward to seeing that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 43.893581286167695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And share in that part of history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That possibly will happen this fall or next spring, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll look forward to seeing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you first learn about efforts that both the United States and Russia were making towards space? Was it when [John F.] Kennedy announced that—I should say manned efforts—when Kennedy announced he wanted to send someone to the moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 39.88175698463077, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. That possibly will happen this fall or next spring, maybe."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We'll look forward to seeing that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Good. Thank you."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When did you first learn about efforts that both the United States and Russia were making towards space? Was it when [John F.] Kennedy announced that—I should say manned efforts—when Kennedy announced he wanted to send someone to the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no, no. Long before that. One morning I picked up the newspaper and there was a picture of seven people, they had announced the day before that they were selected as astronauts. This was in April of 1959. I thought, \"Wow! Wouldn't that be wonderful to be one of these people.\" But I knew at that time that women were not considered in that category and had not been considered and probably would not be for a long, long time. And, of course, I realized this from my past experiences in flying in air shows.\\n\\n My first air show, really professional air show, was in Jacksonville, and it was the Navy Blue Angels' first air show. So I flew many years in shows with the Blue Angels and knew many of the teams, and was pretty much the only gal that was working on that level around the world and in this country as a professional aerobatic pilot.\\n\\n I would like to say, on aerobatic flying, too, most people call it stunt flying. When I started doing it, I felt that it should be called aerobatic flying, which it had been by some. But I considered it an art, and I spent a great deal of time trying to convince people that it was not simply diving to thrill a crowd and to make a lot of noise and put out a lot of smoke; it was an effort that took many, many, many thousands of hours to perfect, and it in its own self was an art, and you had to look at it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. I'm sure you must have taken time before you perform a stunt in the air show, you would have to practice it over and over."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 51.37415224229186, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. You would go up high, to be safe, and you would do maybe the same maneuver 100 times in one practice setting, and you'd practice two or three times a day, not too long at a time, because you get very tired. There were negative Gs involved, G loadings involved. It was a little tiring at times."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You certainly put a lot of work into it to make it—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you have to do it properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been neat to be able to fly in air shows with the Navy team, the Blue Angels."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were all a great bunch of guys and marvelous to work with. The nicest part about it, even though I was a gal, there were some skeptics at first, when I first started aerobatic flying, but after a woman comes along in those years, in the forties and early fifties, in this particular area as soon as you proved yourself, so to speak, and showed how proficient you could be with it, then there was just no difference. And it was really marvelous. It was an occupation that I really loved.\\n\\n I think the thing I enjoyed most, and yet was probably one of the most dangerous, was flying upside down about ten feet above the ground, cutting a ribbon with the prop of the airplane. If nothing else, if nothing else gives you a thrill, that will, I'll tell you. [Laughter] You're pretty busy and it's quite a lot of fun. I understand I was the first woman in the world to ever do it. I worked very hard to perfect it, and I enjoyed it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's certainly not anything easy to do. I'm sure it thrilled the audience watching as much as thrilling you flying it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 57.08239138032429, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you have to do it properly."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It must have been neat to be able to fly in air shows with the Navy team, the Blue Angels."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were all a great bunch of guys and marvelous to work with. The nicest part about it, even though I was a gal, there were some skeptics at first, when I first started aerobatic flying, but after a woman comes along in those years, in the forties and early fifties, in this particular area as soon as you proved yourself, so to speak, and showed how proficient you could be with it, then there was just no difference. And it was really marvelous. It was an occupation that I really loved.\\n\\n I think the thing I enjoyed most, and yet was probably one of the most dangerous, was flying upside down about ten feet above the ground, cutting a ribbon with the prop of the airplane. If nothing else, if nothing else gives you a thrill, that will, I'll tell you. [Laughter] You're pretty busy and it's quite a lot of fun. I understand I was the first woman in the world to ever do it. I worked very hard to perfect it, and I enjoyed it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's certainly not anything easy to do. I'm sure it thrilled the audience watching as much as thrilling you flying it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I must admit, the first time I tried it—and I haven't told many people this—but the first time I tried it, I misjudged slightly and flew underneath the ribbon, which put me even closer to the ground. I never made that mistake again. [Laughter] But I've made quite a few. All pilots do. Thank goodness they're careful enough not to get in trouble with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then to be able to always learn from it, if you do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 19, "return_to_go": 63.42487931147143, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, they were all a great bunch of guys and marvelous to work with. The nicest part about it, even though I was a gal, there were some skeptics at first, when I first started aerobatic flying, but after a woman comes along in those years, in the forties and early fifties, in this particular area as soon as you proved yourself, so to speak, and showed how proficient you could be with it, then there was just no difference. And it was really marvelous. It was an occupation that I really loved.\\n\\n I think the thing I enjoyed most, and yet was probably one of the most dangerous, was flying upside down about ten feet above the ground, cutting a ribbon with the prop of the airplane. If nothing else, if nothing else gives you a thrill, that will, I'll tell you. [Laughter] You're pretty busy and it's quite a lot of fun. I understand I was the first woman in the world to ever do it. I worked very hard to perfect it, and I enjoyed it very much."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. That's certainly not anything easy to do. I'm sure it thrilled the audience watching as much as thrilling you flying it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I must admit, the first time I tried it—and I haven't told many people this—but the first time I tried it, I misjudged slightly and flew underneath the ribbon, which put me even closer to the ground. I never made that mistake again. [Laughter] But I've made quite a few. All pilots do. Thank goodness they're careful enough not to get in trouble with it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And then to be able to always learn from it, if you do that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That's right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. When you did learn about the Mercury astronauts and you saw them and you thought this was such a neat thing, but you realized women wouldn't work into it very—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 38.53764954669669, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Quite true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you were working with them and learning, as you said, the technical details and the difficulties, how did that compare both technologically and the different things that you were doing to what you had done before with airplanes and—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it was a lot easier to understand, I think, because I did a lot of work on my own airplane and I learned very early you look after your own equipment. The same thing, you know, really occurred at that time. Now they have so many technicians to do so much for a launch, that the pilot is not as deeply involved as we were then in knowing every aspect of everything. It was, I would say, a lot easier for me to comprehend than it might have been someone who did not fly and who did not understand aeronautics and the forces that keep airplanes and so forth in the air."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that you had gotten a call. Who called you? Was this NASA that was sponsoring you to come down and participate in this?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't really know how it started. Someone with Look magazine called me and said that NASA was going to test a woman or be the first woman to give tests to, and would I be interested in doing it. I think the call came from the aviation editor of Look, primarily because he had seen me fly a number of times and knew of my experience and my background. Of course, I had a large number of flight hours and quite a lot of experience. I had tried to set a woman's record in a P-51 at one time, a world's record, and the engine had blown up. I had had a lot of interesting things happen in an airplane, and I flew in the Cleveland Air Races. I guess they just figured I—well, then they were looking for test pilots and people who had done dangerous things, and it seemed like I fit the bill, I suppose."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You said you were there for a period of about four or five months?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.057239743822347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Well, for instance, Wally Schirra—I believe it was Wally—was friendly. He said that his father, I believe—you know, we're talking about, what, forty, fifty years ago, and I cannot remember everything, especially at this age. [Laughter] But I believe Wally said that his father had been an aerobatic pilot, and we kind of felt a little kinship there just because of that.\\n\\n I almost had an opportunity to land my little Pitts Special, which only weighed 540 pounds, and the top wing came to about here on me, a very tiny airplane that would fit in a small room, I almost had an opportunity when I went to England—I was selected to represent the United States one year in the London Daily Express Air Pageant at [Gatwick] Airport in London. And knowing all of the Air Force guys and the Navy guys from air shows, I had an opportunity to try to land it on a carrier. Of course, that was unheard of, for a woman to go on a carrier. But I could have landed on a carrier and stopped it without the hook or anything. A very maneuverable airplane. And send it to Europe that way, to London that way. But they also said if they got in the middle of the Atlantic and had orders to go to the Indian Ocean, that's where they'd go, and I couldn't take the chance. So I took it over with me on the Queen Mary, flew in England, and then flew it across the Irish Sea and was a guest of the RAF [Royal Air Force] in Ireland, and flew there. But I was particularly interested in the guys that had flown carriers and done carrier landings, because I never quite made it on a carrier. I would have loved it. It would have been fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That certainly would have been interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if I had been able to stop. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have made it very fun."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 33.396933048691494, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Very interesting."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if I had been able to stop. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have made it very fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think at the time about the future of space flight? You said you thought it might take a while for women to get into it. But at the time did you think about that just in a few short years they'd be trying to go to the moon?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 33.77437005410166, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Especially if I had been able to stop. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would have made it very fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you think at the time about the future of space flight? You said you thought it might take a while for women to get into it. But at the time did you think about that just in a few short years they'd be trying to go to the moon?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The moon, I think, came a little quicker than I had expected. I think the reason it came as quickly as it did, thank god, was because these seven guys, the originators, I call them, caught the attention of the entire world and made our country so very, very proud. We had a President who understood this and decided it would be a good idea to go for the moon. And although he didn't have the vaguest idea, I don't think, how he was going to get it done, he committed to getting it done, and that's what got us there a lot quicker.\\n\\n However, as far as far space travel and the type of thing where we're discussing now and the types of things that are happening now, and the wonderful thing that's happening to Eileen Collins today, it's her day. It's really her day. I feel a little strange talking about my small experiences when she's having such a great one less than twenty-four hours from now. I'm very, very proud of her.\\n\\n But I think that our President, Kennedy, had a great deal to do with our space effort going forward. Then the budget dropped off for a while, and then it came back on. I think we're doing the best we can for what we've got to work with and the budget that's involved."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And I'm sure that Eileen Collins, being where she is now, as you mentioned, the original seven astronauts were key for getting the space program where it is, but it was women like you that were key to helping Eileen Collins get to where she is."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.612304600962496, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I think that probably I was the first one that kind of gave NASA a kick, anyway, although it didn't do much good, and that was in 1959. This is 1999. Our first woman—and I was here for that, when Sally [K.] Ride flew. I came over for that and was interviewed by Jane Pauley on the program. But from '59 to '83 is a long time, and although she wasn't a pilot, it was a great accomplishment. But, to me, this trip that Eileen is taking is, in a way, my dream of all those years ago, forty years ago, and what I really wanted to do, and would have given my life to do at that time. And not just me; there were a lot of other girls who felt the same way. In fact, after the Look cover story came out on me, there was quite a bit of controversy, and even went to Congress, and the girls all tried to get into the space program. Some made some headway, but it just was not to be, and I realized that.\\n\\n So it was '59 to '99 before we could get a woman pilot, commander, and I'm so very proud of her. And in a way, it's like my dream come true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's so fortunate that you can be able to be here to share in it and watch it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I can hardly wait. I'm sure I'll probably cry, too. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you won't be the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gals like to cry sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that. You mentioned that some of the others, another group of women had gone through a different sort of testing than you had. Had you known about that at the time or when they were doing it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 32.902560667736104, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I can hardly wait. I'm sure I'll probably cry, too. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you won't be the only one."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gals like to cry sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that. You mentioned that some of the others, another group of women had gone through a different sort of testing than you had. Had you known about that at the time or when they were doing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that they were undertaking it, but, frankly, I was not able to follow their activities. It was after I had done my thing, so to speak. During that period of time I was involved with setting some records for Chevrolet. I did the survey trip and the actual trip and managed it, of a truck run down the Baja Peninsula long before it became a tourist attraction like it is today, and at that time we were the first expedition down Baja. And just past Encinitas, there were no roads; it was just dirt roads and rocks and streams and whatnot.\\n\\n When you're so tremendously involved with that, and I was involved with setting a transcontinental record across the United States, and many other record things, that it was hard to follow their activities. I was interested, but again I didn't feel that it would ever go anywhere. I feel so badly for those girls that it didn't. There were some fine pilots, some marvelous girls in the program. We were all in the same boat, so to speak, without a paddle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you continued to follow events of the space program itself. Did you watch the next shots, Gemini?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 33.22506740859567, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Gals like to cry sometimes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that. You mentioned that some of the others, another group of women had gone through a different sort of testing than you had. Had you known about that at the time or when they were doing it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that they were undertaking it, but, frankly, I was not able to follow their activities. It was after I had done my thing, so to speak. During that period of time I was involved with setting some records for Chevrolet. I did the survey trip and the actual trip and managed it, of a truck run down the Baja Peninsula long before it became a tourist attraction like it is today, and at that time we were the first expedition down Baja. And just past Encinitas, there were no roads; it was just dirt roads and rocks and streams and whatnot.\\n\\n When you're so tremendously involved with that, and I was involved with setting a transcontinental record across the United States, and many other record things, that it was hard to follow their activities. I was interested, but again I didn't feel that it would ever go anywhere. I feel so badly for those girls that it didn't. There were some fine pilots, some marvelous girls in the program. We were all in the same boat, so to speak, without a paddle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you continued to follow events of the space program itself. Did you watch the next shots, Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been over a number of times and watched. I mentioned Cypress Gardens earlier, I believe, which is in the center part of the state, halfway between Tampa and Orlando. Cypress Gardens is on a little lake called Eloise, a good-size lake, and we live lakefront on the west side of the lake, facing east. We sit in our living room and watch every space flight when it's not real cloudy. So I have seen more flights probably than just about anybody around through the number of years because we get to see them. I'm really very honored to be here, and so close, for this one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a pretty special day."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 36.9167415651063, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I knew that they were undertaking it, but, frankly, I was not able to follow their activities. It was after I had done my thing, so to speak. During that period of time I was involved with setting some records for Chevrolet. I did the survey trip and the actual trip and managed it, of a truck run down the Baja Peninsula long before it became a tourist attraction like it is today, and at that time we were the first expedition down Baja. And just past Encinitas, there were no roads; it was just dirt roads and rocks and streams and whatnot.\\n\\n When you're so tremendously involved with that, and I was involved with setting a transcontinental record across the United States, and many other record things, that it was hard to follow their activities. I was interested, but again I didn't feel that it would ever go anywhere. I feel so badly for those girls that it didn't. There were some fine pilots, some marvelous girls in the program. We were all in the same boat, so to speak, without a paddle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you continued to follow events of the space program itself. Did you watch the next shots, Gemini?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been over a number of times and watched. I mentioned Cypress Gardens earlier, I believe, which is in the center part of the state, halfway between Tampa and Orlando. Cypress Gardens is on a little lake called Eloise, a good-size lake, and we live lakefront on the west side of the lake, facing east. We sit in our living room and watch every space flight when it's not real cloudy. So I have seen more flights probably than just about anybody around through the number of years because we get to see them. I'm really very honored to be here, and so close, for this one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a pretty special day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you had done your work with the Mercury seven astronauts—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 39.90749062789589, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've been over a number of times and watched. I mentioned Cypress Gardens earlier, I believe, which is in the center part of the state, halfway between Tampa and Orlando. Cypress Gardens is on a little lake called Eloise, a good-size lake, and we live lakefront on the west side of the lake, facing east. We sit in our living room and watch every space flight when it's not real cloudy. So I have seen more flights probably than just about anybody around through the number of years because we get to see them. I'm really very honored to be here, and so close, for this one."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's a pretty special day."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it is."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "After you had done your work with the Mercury seven astronauts—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Can we halt a minute?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. [Tape recorder turned off]\\n\\n After you had worked with the Mercury 7 astronauts and with NASA, you said you went back, had been with Chevrolet, if I'm correct, and went back and presented to them what you had done, and were able to share with them. What did you then go on and do in your career? What were some of the other—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:111", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.15590830792608, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But, again, I tried to drive the Blue Flame when it went for the world's record, well over 600, and I flew the Pitts Special, which, incidentally, I named the Little Stinker. Had a skunk on the side. I flew it over to Milwaukee and tried to talk with the owners and the people. There was just no way they were going to allow a woman to drive that car, and it was a gorgeous automobile. Looked like a bullet. It did set the record, world's record."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So many opportunities you've had. So many interesting times. Is there a point, looking back over your whole career, that you would say was the most challenging time for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there isn't, because you can't mix boats and airplanes and cars all together. I might say affairs of the heart. I was not thirty-nine before I got married. I was thirty-nine and a half. I think that's the most exciting thing that ever happened to me. [Laughter] I was very, very nervous, and was fortunate enough to marry a fantastic man. He was with the Ford agency at one time, and I was with Chevrolet agency, and we were bitter rivals and didn't particularly like each other very much, either, but we smoothed that out. It's the finest thing that ever happened to me, really, by far the most rewarding and the finest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A marvelous, marvelous man. We will be married thirty-four years come New Year's Eve, and we decided we wanted to start our year out together, and that's why New Year's Eve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And this New Year's Eve will be the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:113", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.617675897695644, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, there isn't, because you can't mix boats and airplanes and cars all together. I might say affairs of the heart. I was not thirty-nine before I got married. I was thirty-nine and a half. I think that's the most exciting thing that ever happened to me. [Laughter] I was very, very nervous, and was fortunate enough to marry a fantastic man. He was with the Ford agency at one time, and I was with Chevrolet agency, and we were bitter rivals and didn't particularly like each other very much, either, but we smoothed that out. It's the finest thing that ever happened to me, really, by far the most rewarding and the finest."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's wonderful."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A marvelous, marvelous man. We will be married thirty-four years come New Year's Eve, and we decided we wanted to start our year out together, and that's why New Year's Eve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And this New Year's Eve will be the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-fourth. I hope we make it. He's extremely ill right now. But we're counting the days until New Year's Eve and the millennium. That's our next goal, and that's a challenge now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. All of our thoughts and prayers will be with you that you are able to celebrate that together."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:115", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 27.352973219661827, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "A marvelous, marvelous man. We will be married thirty-four years come New Year's Eve, and we decided we wanted to start our year out together, and that's why New Year's Eve."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's great. And this New Year's Eve will be the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-fourth. I hope we make it. He's extremely ill right now. But we're counting the days until New Year's Eve and the millennium. That's our next goal, and that's a challenge now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. All of our thoughts and prayers will be with you that you are able to celebrate that together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. Appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think here we'll go ahead and pause for a moment. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n What is this photograph here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 18.169970244068697, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thirty-fourth. I hope we make it. He's extremely ill right now. But we're counting the days until New Year's Eve and the millennium. That's our next goal, and that's a challenge now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely. All of our thoughts and prayers will be with you that you are able to celebrate that together."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. Appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think here we'll go ahead and pause for a moment. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n What is this photograph here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a photograph that was a taken—this is the sixth, I think, of the seven original astronauts, and from left to right is Deke [Donald K.] Slayton, Wally Schirra, Scott Carpenter, John Glenn, Gus Grissom, and Alan Shepard. I don't know who's missing; I'd have to think. Maybe Gordo—[L.] Gordon Cooper [Jr.] is missing. This was the first day I visited their ready room at Langley in Virginia, and we were matching to see who was going to buy the coffee.\\n\\n This is my pride and joy. This is Little Stinker, my Pitts Special that is now in the National Air and Space Museum, number N22E. I always called it \"2-2 Easy.\" A little tiny airplane, only weighs 544 pounds, and a great joy to fly. As you were flying along cross country, you'd look out there at that little short wing and think, \"What in the world is keeping me in the air?\" Marvelous little airplane.\\n\\n This gives you an idea of how very small Little Stinker was. With Little Stinker is Little Tinker, a chihuahua, which was my mascot and flew around the airplane with me. We had a great time together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would Little Tinker hang head out the window, ears flapping in the wind?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 19.077744715631884, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Thank you. Appreciate it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think here we'll go ahead and pause for a moment. [Tape recorder turned off.]\\n\\n What is this photograph here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was a photograph that was a taken—this is the sixth, I think, of the seven original astronauts, and from left to right is Deke [Donald K.] Slayton, Wally Schirra, Scott Carpenter, John Glenn, Gus Grissom, and Alan Shepard. I don't know who's missing; I'd have to think. Maybe Gordo—[L.] Gordon Cooper [Jr.] is missing. This was the first day I visited their ready room at Langley in Virginia, and we were matching to see who was going to buy the coffee.\\n\\n This is my pride and joy. This is Little Stinker, my Pitts Special that is now in the National Air and Space Museum, number N22E. I always called it \"2-2 Easy.\" A little tiny airplane, only weighs 544 pounds, and a great joy to fly. As you were flying along cross country, you'd look out there at that little short wing and think, \"What in the world is keeping me in the air?\" Marvelous little airplane.\\n\\n This gives you an idea of how very small Little Stinker was. With Little Stinker is Little Tinker, a chihuahua, which was my mascot and flew around the airplane with me. We had a great time together."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Would Little Tinker hang head out the window, ears flapping in the wind?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. He'd sit in my lap most of the time or on the back of my shoulder, and had its own little parachute and it had its own favorite airplane. It loved Tallahassee in Florida, because every time I would land there, there was a fire plug close by. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] That's great."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:123", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.083635451397388, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, no, no. He'd sit in my lap most of the time or on the back of my shoulder, and had its own little parachute and it had its own favorite airplane. It loved Tallahassee in Florida, because every time I would land there, there was a fire plug close by. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] That's great."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was the boat-jumping that I had mentioned. You go up a ramp. Actually, it's a water-ski ramp. Then you jump. We were jumping over this 1955 Dodge, it looks like, at Cypress Gardens in Florida. On that particular jump I had a very hard landing. I knew at this point it was going to be extremely hard, and I did have a little medical problem after that for a while. I limped for about a year, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my. You certainly look like you're enjoying it at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is a picture of you."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:125", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 22.315150501552655, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was the boat-jumping that I had mentioned. You go up a ramp. Actually, it's a water-ski ramp. Then you jump. We were jumping over this 1955 Dodge, it looks like, at Cypress Gardens in Florida. On that particular jump I had a very hard landing. I knew at this point it was going to be extremely hard, and I did have a little medical problem after that for a while. I limped for about a year, in fact."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, my. You certainly look like you're enjoying it at the time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is a picture of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was entering the centrifuge for the wild ride at the U.S. [Naval] Acceleration Laboratory in Johnsville, Pennsylvania. That's when one of the technicians made the remark about the advertising campaign. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a ride. Was it similar to any of the experiences you'd had?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:127", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 21.461278335058505, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was fun."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And this is a picture of you."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was entering the centrifuge for the wild ride at the U.S. [Naval] Acceleration Laboratory in Johnsville, Pennsylvania. That's when one of the technicians made the remark about the advertising campaign. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a ride. Was it similar to any of the experiences you'd had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very similar to the G loadings I had felt in the airplane.\\n\\n This is an actual shot of me just before they closed the door or just after they closed the door to the centrifuge. It's an interesting piece of equipment. It's on a 55-foot arm and it goes round and round and round very, very fast and creates G loadings on the body. In other words, if your body weighs 100, they can make it weigh 200, 300, 400. Each G loading carries your body weight up. I was used to G loadings because I'd had quite a number of them in Little Stinker.\\n\\n This is a shot that was taken actually in front of a capsule that's exactly like the one that Alan Shepard flew in. I had been in the space suit for quite a long time at that point, and I must say they're not very comfortable. But it was such a thrill just to be able to get into one of them, and think, \"Wouldn't it be wonderful if I could just use it, if I could just get into space with it?\" But unfortunately that was not to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this one of the training suits that they used?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:129", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.734753705620562, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was entering the centrifuge for the wild ride at the U.S. [Naval] Acceleration Laboratory in Johnsville, Pennsylvania. That's when one of the technicians made the remark about the advertising campaign. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That must have been quite a ride. Was it similar to any of the experiences you'd had?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very similar to the G loadings I had felt in the airplane.\\n\\n This is an actual shot of me just before they closed the door or just after they closed the door to the centrifuge. It's an interesting piece of equipment. It's on a 55-foot arm and it goes round and round and round very, very fast and creates G loadings on the body. In other words, if your body weighs 100, they can make it weigh 200, 300, 400. Each G loading carries your body weight up. I was used to G loadings because I'd had quite a number of them in Little Stinker.\\n\\n This is a shot that was taken actually in front of a capsule that's exactly like the one that Alan Shepard flew in. I had been in the space suit for quite a long time at that point, and I must say they're not very comfortable. But it was such a thrill just to be able to get into one of them, and think, \"Wouldn't it be wonderful if I could just use it, if I could just get into space with it?\" But unfortunately that was not to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this one of the training suits that they used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was taken out at McDonnell-Douglas [Corporation]. This was one of the suits that they had on hand there. McDonnell-Douglas did the capsules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to ask. Alan Shepard, when he was on his first mission, didn't have a method for relieving himself very well. You said you were in the suit for a long time. Did that become a problem for you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:131", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 25.260837450689515, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very similar to the G loadings I had felt in the airplane.\\n\\n This is an actual shot of me just before they closed the door or just after they closed the door to the centrifuge. It's an interesting piece of equipment. It's on a 55-foot arm and it goes round and round and round very, very fast and creates G loadings on the body. In other words, if your body weighs 100, they can make it weigh 200, 300, 400. Each G loading carries your body weight up. I was used to G loadings because I'd had quite a number of them in Little Stinker.\\n\\n This is a shot that was taken actually in front of a capsule that's exactly like the one that Alan Shepard flew in. I had been in the space suit for quite a long time at that point, and I must say they're not very comfortable. But it was such a thrill just to be able to get into one of them, and think, \"Wouldn't it be wonderful if I could just use it, if I could just get into space with it?\" But unfortunately that was not to be."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was this one of the training suits that they used?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was taken out at McDonnell-Douglas [Corporation]. This was one of the suits that they had on hand there. McDonnell-Douglas did the capsules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to ask. Alan Shepard, when he was on his first mission, didn't have a method for relieving himself very well. You said you were in the suit for a long time. Did that become a problem for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a very personal subject. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you don't have to answer if you don't want to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:133", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 24.734263834099462, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This was taken out at McDonnell-Douglas [Corporation]. This was one of the suits that they had on hand there. McDonnell-Douglas did the capsules."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to ask. Alan Shepard, when he was on his first mission, didn't have a method for relieving himself very well. You said you were in the suit for a long time. Did that become a problem for you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it's a very personal subject. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you don't have to answer if you don't want to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I'll tell you the truth. I used to fly in Little Stinker from daylight till dark if I had to get to—you know, you weren't flying very fast, 110 miles an hour and with a head wind probably of 50 miles an hour. But anyway, I would fly from daylight till dark, and I became quite accustomed to controlling not having to make pit stops, shall we say. [Laughter] So that was not a problem for me here in this shot."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, good. [Interruption]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:141", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 28.967023066757296, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, sure. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What are we doing in this shot?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is just simple treadmill tests that they gave you at the Brooks Aerospace Medicine School. It, of course, made it go faster and faster and steeper and steeper, to see how long you could undergo the physical activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to say, in all of these you're just grinning and looking like you're having a blast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I just had a great time. Really great time.\\n\\n This was kind of interesting. They were trying to show me and test me under water because of the buoyancy advantage you have. Your body weighs a lot less, so to speak, under water, like 90 percent less. This is Scott Carpenter and Alan Shepard helping me adjust the mask. The interesting thing about it is, I don't swim. I never have. I'm not particularly afraid of water, but I don't swim. But I didn't dare tell them. [Laughter] We all went under water, and they were very nice to hang around and help me when I wanted a little help. I don't think they ever knew I couldn't swim. But it wasn't the most exciting thing that I did, I'm afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. I was going to ask you, with everything else you've done, from cars to planes, to boats, to skydiving, I was about to ask if you've done much scuba diving."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:143", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.074470074174773, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is just simple treadmill tests that they gave you at the Brooks Aerospace Medicine School. It, of course, made it go faster and faster and steeper and steeper, to see how long you could undergo the physical activity."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to say, in all of these you're just grinning and looking like you're having a blast."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I just had a great time. Really great time.\\n\\n This was kind of interesting. They were trying to show me and test me under water because of the buoyancy advantage you have. Your body weighs a lot less, so to speak, under water, like 90 percent less. This is Scott Carpenter and Alan Shepard helping me adjust the mask. The interesting thing about it is, I don't swim. I never have. I'm not particularly afraid of water, but I don't swim. But I didn't dare tell them. [Laughter] We all went under water, and they were very nice to hang around and help me when I wanted a little help. I don't think they ever knew I couldn't swim. But it wasn't the most exciting thing that I did, I'm afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. I was going to ask you, with everything else you've done, from cars to planes, to boats, to skydiving, I was about to ask if you've done much scuba diving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've done a little, but I didn't particularly like it. I skied in the ski shows at Cyprus Gardens a lot, but when I'd fall, I'd just come up and hang on to the ski until somebody came to get me. So I never really learned how to swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do all these boating adventures and boat jumping and water skiing—didn't need to swim?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:145", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 33.41607786019419, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was. I just had a great time. Really great time.\\n\\n This was kind of interesting. They were trying to show me and test me under water because of the buoyancy advantage you have. Your body weighs a lot less, so to speak, under water, like 90 percent less. This is Scott Carpenter and Alan Shepard helping me adjust the mask. The interesting thing about it is, I don't swim. I never have. I'm not particularly afraid of water, but I don't swim. But I didn't dare tell them. [Laughter] We all went under water, and they were very nice to hang around and help me when I wanted a little help. I don't think they ever knew I couldn't swim. But it wasn't the most exciting thing that I did, I'm afraid."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's interesting. I was going to ask you, with everything else you've done, from cars to planes, to boats, to skydiving, I was about to ask if you've done much scuba diving."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've done a little, but I didn't particularly like it. I skied in the ski shows at Cyprus Gardens a lot, but when I'd fall, I'd just come up and hang on to the ski until somebody came to get me. So I never really learned how to swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do all these boating adventures and boat jumping and water skiing—didn't need to swim?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, I really didn't. I'm not afraid of water; I just didn't like it in my ears and eyes. [Laughter]\\n\\n This is the control room of the centrifuge that I mentioned to you. While you're going around and around in this thing on the [50]-foot arm, they actually see you on a TV screen in the control room, and those are the technicians, of course, watching to see if I black out or, you know, what happens. They were very nice to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got to watch this video yourself afterwards, of you going through the ride?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:147", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 31.573419844660208, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've done a little, but I didn't particularly like it. I skied in the ski shows at Cyprus Gardens a lot, but when I'd fall, I'd just come up and hang on to the ski until somebody came to get me. So I never really learned how to swim."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do all these boating adventures and boat jumping and water skiing—didn't need to swim?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Really, I really didn't. I'm not afraid of water; I just didn't like it in my ears and eyes. [Laughter]\\n\\n This is the control room of the centrifuge that I mentioned to you. While you're going around and around in this thing on the [50]-foot arm, they actually see you on a TV screen in the control room, and those are the technicians, of course, watching to see if I black out or, you know, what happens. They were very nice to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you got to watch this video yourself afterwards, of you going through the ride?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Right.\\n\\n This was in a water test with Scotty and Alan Shepard. They were very helpful to me during the water test, which I was very pleased didn't last too long. [Laughter]\\n\\n This was long before America ever flew anyone into space, before Shepard's flight, at the Cape. Wally Schirra and Deke Slayton, the late Deke Slayton, they were showing me what a capsule looks like when it comes back, or when it lands and is recovered. In order to find out what sort of damage they could expect on an actual flight, recovering these test flights helped them a great deal technically."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have to ask. You worked so closely with the seven during this time frame that you were down there and did get to see a couple of launches. When John Glenn went back up just last year, did you get a chance to see his launch?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:157", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 29.493166429000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "This is in Miami at the All-American Air Maneuvers. Mr. Piper, Bill Piper, who built the famous Piper Cub, this was in the late forties, and he asked me if I would be interested in flying their experimental Super Cub to see if I could set a new altitude record. I said, \"Sure, that would be fun.\" And so they loaded it up one morning with the barograph, all the same day, of course, and I climbed in and went up to maybe 29,000 feet or something like that. I can't remember all these figures. It was about 53 degrees below outside. Oh, I haven't mentioned, I usually fly bare-footed, and my feet darn near froze to death. [Laughter] But it was a nice little airplane. After that, they came out with the regular Super Cub."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Tell me, why do you usually fly bare-footed?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I guess because I'm a Florida cracker. [Laughter]\\n\\n After all the tests were finished, in February, February 2nd, to be exact, Look magazine ran a cover story showing all of the tests—not all, but some of the tests that I had taken. This kind of caused a stir among women pilots in the country who felt that I was going to get there and they weren't, which was not the case at all, and I did not mean it to be that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of these pictures that you've shared with us were taken by Look magazine."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's under their copyright."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:161", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.398970900000002, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It's under their copyright."}, {"role": "user", "content": "9:35 a.m. That one nobody could figure out that was a fantastic flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember the time because a disk, or a record came out.\\n\\n In the late forties, I endeavored to set a world land speed record for women. I was trying to break Jacqueline Cochran's record, and actually had the record broken. You fly four passes not too high above the ground. But there were two rules: you couldn't go over a certain altitude and you had to land where you took off. Just as I was going by the pylon on the last pass and I had the record set at 426 miles an hour, I think it was, the engine blew up and there was a little fire. I pulled up to over 3,000 feet to bail out. The tower told me to bail out. I reached for the handle and I was over the world, and I thought, \"Nuh-uh. I don't think so.\" The handle to eject. So I did not eject, and landed without an engine at McDill Air Force Base.\\n\\n At that time the Air Force was instructing all of their P-51 guys, if you have an engine failure, get out. But I was fortunate enough to get it back down, thank goodness, because it wasn't my airplane. [Laughter] It belonged to a wonderful gentleman named Woody Edmondson, who was a 1948 International Aerobatic champion, and he was kind enough to let me use his airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure he was glad to see—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-01004:163", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.443301, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "9:35 a.m. That one nobody could figure out that was a fantastic flight."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Absolutely."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And I remember the time because a disk, or a record came out.\\n\\n In the late forties, I endeavored to set a world land speed record for women. I was trying to break Jacqueline Cochran's record, and actually had the record broken. You fly four passes not too high above the ground. But there were two rules: you couldn't go over a certain altitude and you had to land where you took off. Just as I was going by the pylon on the last pass and I had the record set at 426 miles an hour, I think it was, the engine blew up and there was a little fire. I pulled up to over 3,000 feet to bail out. The tower told me to bail out. I reached for the handle and I was over the world, and I thought, \"Nuh-uh. I don't think so.\" The handle to eject. So I did not eject, and landed without an engine at McDill Air Force Base.\\n\\n At that time the Air Force was instructing all of their P-51 guys, if you have an engine failure, get out. But I was fortunate enough to get it back down, thank goodness, because it wasn't my airplane. [Laughter] It belonged to a wonderful gentleman named Woody Edmondson, who was a 1948 International Aerobatic champion, and he was kind enough to let me use his airplane."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure he was glad to see—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, he was scared to death. [Laughter] Everyone who lets a girl use their mechanized equipment just lives in great fear until you return it all in one piece."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "But so many of them were willing to be able to let you do that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:1", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.386117134435512, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And it's always a pleasure to be with you ladies."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As I said, I'd like to follow up on some things we talked about last time, and I'd like to start with a couple of management questions. When you first came to NASA, some people said that the centers had a \"state's rights\" attitude regarding their relationship with headquarters. How would you describe the centers' attitudes when you got there?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "The warlords dominating the organization. [Laughter] They were independent fiefdoms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that cause problems with what needed to get done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hard to get [any] two fiefs to talk to each other, at least in a meaningful way. It's a natural thing. Each was doing what it thought was right. And from their point of view, it probably was right, but from the standpoint of getting the program done, they had to work as a team. And more than that, we had to have much better communications across the centers and the contractors than we had had up to that point in time. The success or failure of a program like Apollo depends upon all of the people doing the actual work understanding what it is that they are supposed to do and how that contributes to the overall program's success, the overall system.\\n\\n In particular, in the case of Apollo, it was essential that that communication be on a very rapid level, [and] also on various levels. You couldn't do it just on the design; it had to be on how it was going to operate and how you were going to handle safety, and the safety had to be built in across the board, as well as all of the other disciplines that are required for a successful program.\\n\\n One of the challenges was to make each of the program offices, both in the centers and at the contractor, realize that all of those disciplines were essential and that they had to be addressed early on, if we were, in fact, going to carry out a successful program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were able to make those changes so that that communication was possible. Some people said that you had a lot of management freedom when you were in your position at NASA. Do you agree with that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:3", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 30.42901903826168, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The warlords dominating the organization. [Laughter] They were independent fiefdoms."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How did that cause problems with what needed to get done?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was hard to get [any] two fiefs to talk to each other, at least in a meaningful way. It's a natural thing. Each was doing what it thought was right. And from their point of view, it probably was right, but from the standpoint of getting the program done, they had to work as a team. And more than that, we had to have much better communications across the centers and the contractors than we had had up to that point in time. The success or failure of a program like Apollo depends upon all of the people doing the actual work understanding what it is that they are supposed to do and how that contributes to the overall program's success, the overall system.\\n\\n In particular, in the case of Apollo, it was essential that that communication be on a very rapid level, [and] also on various levels. You couldn't do it just on the design; it had to be on how it was going to operate and how you were going to handle safety, and the safety had to be built in across the board, as well as all of the other disciplines that are required for a successful program.\\n\\n One of the challenges was to make each of the program offices, both in the centers and at the contractor, realize that all of those disciplines were essential and that they had to be addressed early on, if we were, in fact, going to carry out a successful program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you were able to make those changes so that that communication was possible. Some people said that you had a lot of management freedom when you were in your position at NASA. Do you agree with that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, indeed, much more so than is currently possible anywhere in the government, that [is] in the public sector. The only programs that have that kind of management freedom now—and that's pretty limited—are the black programs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think you had the freedom that you had?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 7, "return_to_go": 28.821297262088695, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It also turned out, the centers really didn't want them back. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] They were trying to pawn them off on you. When you first came to NASA, you asked John [H.] Disher and Del [Adelbert O.] Tischler to conduct an investigation of the Apollo schedule. Do you remember that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vividly. That was an off-line kind of thing, and we were trying to figure out how we could get to the Moon in time, and so they went off and looked at what we were doing, and came back saying, \"There's no way you're going to be able to do that.\" … I shared that review with Bob [Robert C.] Seamans [Jr.], and he said that, in effect, \"Well, you know, you've got to burn that [report] and start over …, find out how to do it.\"\\n\\n Well, I had already decided [how] I was going to do it, but I wanted to be sure I had the support from Bob, who did … was, in fact, a tremendous supporter."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you made several changes in procedures, some of which we talked about last time, like the all-up testing, but you also instituted a program called the concurrency program, or also called alternate paths. Can you tell us about that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I hadn't thought of it in that sense. In fact, those two are contradictory."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Explain that to us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 26.071174001049677, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, we carried out, for example, two different development programs for the tanks, relatively small things. There were two kinds of high-pressure tanks that we carried on board, that we carried on in parallel until we got one that was lighter and worked.\\n\\n We did that wherever we could, we had parallel programs. For example, in the case of the lunar excursion module [LEM or LM], we had two guidance systems on it, one that was a simple one and another one more sophisticated, … either one of them could carry out the landing, but [one] without the bells and whistles that the main line did. But we had a backup there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is that kind of program something you think that would be feasible in today's atmosphere and industry?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In industry, probably, but in NASA, probably not."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You're noted as crediting the Apollo Executive Group [AEG] for the success of Apollo. Can you tell us who was in this group and why they were successful?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They were key to the success. So was the Scientific and Technical Advisory Committee [STAC]. [The members of the AEG] were the CEOs or the general managers of the [Apollo and Gemini] contractors, our major contractors. And it is always amazing if you can get the CEO to come and see what the total program is and what his group's problems are, how rapidly those problems get addressed and solved. It is a technique that you can only use when you have a program that's interesting enough so the CEO will come. But if he does, then you've really solved many, many of the problems that plague a lot of programs. The other group, the STAC group, was equally effective, but with our external world.\\n\\n I highly advise … anyone that's running a large program … to get the [CEO’s of] the contractors who are doing the work involved. And we're doing that here [at Kistler], of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Great. Now if it's okay with you, I'd like to talk about Gemini. That's something we didn't touch on in our last interview."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.374043404723526, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Twelve? I think there were thirteen. Maybe it was twelve. I guess it was twelve. At that point in time we had flown the first three, and so we had nine more to go. I said, \"Look. Unless we can get these things flying on one-month centers, we're going to have to terminate the program.\" And I remember Mr. Mac [James S. McDonnell, Jr., President of McDonnell aircraft Corporation] calling me and saying, \"Are you really serious about that?\" And I said, \"Dead serious. If you can't figure out how to get these things launched on one-month centers, we're going to terminate whenever we get to this point in time.\"\\n\\n And lo and behold, they went back and figured out—the Titan group, who were launching these things at Sunnyvale [California], what is Lockheed's group there, and the McDonnell-Douglas troops, John [F.] Yardley, got together and figured out how to get them launched on one. In fact, at one time we launched two of them on one-day centers. So it was amazing what you could do when you set your mind to it and get out of the box of what you're used to doing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that when you were considering the option of canceling Gemini, that there would have been a two-year gap between the missions, the last Gemini and the first Apollo one. What were some of the negative aspects of that to you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the last Gemini; the last Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the last Mercury. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the first Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was before any Gemini missions had even been flown."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:37", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 13.748937116359473, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Not the last Gemini; the last Mercury."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, the last Mercury. Okay."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the first Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was before any Gemini missions had even been flown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what were some of those negative aspects of having it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.832152351510524, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And the first Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So that was before any Gemini missions had even been flown."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what were some of those negative aspects of having it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In order to maintain public interest and support for a program, you have to be doing something that you can report to the public. Progress is important. So without a Gemini Program, about all you'd do is send some pictures of—well, I don't know what we'd send of. Of engine tests out in L.A. [Los Angeles, California], which, after a few of them, you don't have much publicity associated with it.\\n\\n You also had the whole astronaut crew there, that were interested in doing some flying as well, and they needed to have the practice of working in space before they went off to the Moon. So it was both something that needed to be done in terms of maintaining the skills of the astronaut crew and to make sure the public support continued. As you know, the first Gemini flight we came up with got a ticker-tape parade down New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gemini IV, probably, because you realized the importance at that time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:41", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 12.035724835011694, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. So what were some of those negative aspects of having it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "In order to maintain public interest and support for a program, you have to be doing something that you can report to the public. Progress is important. So without a Gemini Program, about all you'd do is send some pictures of—well, I don't know what we'd send of. Of engine tests out in L.A. [Los Angeles, California], which, after a few of them, you don't have much publicity associated with it.\\n\\n You also had the whole astronaut crew there, that were interested in doing some flying as well, and they needed to have the practice of working in space before they went off to the Moon. So it was both something that needed to be done in terms of maintaining the skills of the astronaut crew and to make sure the public support continued. As you know, the first Gemini flight we came up with got a ticker-tape parade down New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gemini IV, probably, because you realized the importance at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first EVAs that were done, even though the Russians did beat us."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:43", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.373027594457437, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "In order to maintain public interest and support for a program, you have to be doing something that you can report to the public. Progress is important. So without a Gemini Program, about all you'd do is send some pictures of—well, I don't know what we'd send of. Of engine tests out in L.A. [Los Angeles, California], which, after a few of them, you don't have much publicity associated with it.\\n\\n You also had the whole astronaut crew there, that were interested in doing some flying as well, and they needed to have the practice of working in space before they went off to the Moon. So it was both something that needed to be done in terms of maintaining the skills of the astronaut crew and to make sure the public support continued. As you know, the first Gemini flight we came up with got a ticker-tape parade down New York."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gemini IV, probably, because you realized the importance at that time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first EVAs that were done, even though the Russians did beat us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. But we also had to be able to do that anyhow.\\n\\n I don't know, what else would you like to know about Gemini?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The paraglider program."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:45", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 14.858919549397152, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The first EVAs that were done, even though the Russians did beat us."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. But we also had to be able to do that anyhow.\\n\\n I don't know, what else would you like to know about Gemini?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The paraglider program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did you hear about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] In the Gemini history book."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 15.398799499330169, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. But we also had to be able to do that anyhow.\\n\\n I don't know, what else would you like to know about Gemini?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The paraglider program."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did you hear about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] In the Gemini history book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] I see. Well, there was a desire on the part of some people to build a paraglider to bring the Gemini capsule back to a controlled landing. The problem was that paragliders at that time had a terrible habit of failing, and we didn't think it would make good publicity to have the wings come off the reentry vehicle. [Laughter]\\n\\n I've always liked the idea of a paraglider. I think it's a great idea, but making one as safe as a parachute is hard. Parachutes aren't all that safe either, because occasionally they don't open. Fortunately [Mueller knocks on wood] we have not had that problem, and they're getting so good now that I don't think that's a likely problem. But with the paragliders at that time, with Gemini, it was a likely problem, and there just wasn't any point in taking that risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of time and money was spent on the paraglider program. Did you see any benefits that came out of that research effort?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:49", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 13.776443888144632, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Where did you hear about that?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] In the Gemini history book."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Laughter] I see. Well, there was a desire on the part of some people to build a paraglider to bring the Gemini capsule back to a controlled landing. The problem was that paragliders at that time had a terrible habit of failing, and we didn't think it would make good publicity to have the wings come off the reentry vehicle. [Laughter]\\n\\n I've always liked the idea of a paraglider. I think it's a great idea, but making one as safe as a parachute is hard. Parachutes aren't all that safe either, because occasionally they don't open. Fortunately [Mueller knocks on wood] we have not had that problem, and they're getting so good now that I don't think that's a likely problem. But with the paragliders at that time, with Gemini, it was a likely problem, and there just wasn't any point in taking that risk."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of time and money was spent on the paraglider program. Did you see any benefits that came out of that research effort?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. The paragliders are much safer now and people are flying around on them, which wasn't being done at that time. So that's a fallout, if you will, of the Apollo Program. And that work has been continuing now for thirty years, and they're getting so that they're—well, as a matter of fact, they're thinking of using paraglider on the X-38 program, the crew rescue model. So it's not in vain, but it wasn't something that we needed or had to have in Gemini, and there's no point in doing something that it would be nice but not necessary, particularly in a program that is time-critical and as sensitive as the Gemini Program was and as Apollo was."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "By that time you'd already decided to land Apollo in the water, so it wasn't going to benefit Apollo, right?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.671390793065338, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually, we tried to build the Apollo capsule so it would land equally safely in water or land if it didn't go the way it was supposed to go, and I don't think that the capsule would have been damaged by a land landing either. The shock level would have been slightly more. Well, it turns out landing on the water at the speeds we do is not much different than landing on land, which we discovered as we were going on and developing the landing system.\\n\\n We did quite a lot of testing of landing systems in the development of the program, and we were all somewhat surprised at the fact that water landings were not substantially safer than land landings. The principal reason for not landing on land is that coming down on parachutes, you drift, and so you don't know exactly where you're going to land. At that time our ability to control the reentry profile was limited, and so no one wanted to take the chance of landing at White Sands [New Mexico] and ending up in Albuquerque or someplace."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Gemini also helped show that they could have more precise landings."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. In fact, the troops began to bet on how close they could come to the landing spot. The one that got closest used the computer-aided landing. [Laughter] As you should expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the Gemini missions, one of the first longer ones, was Gemini VII with Borman and Lovell, and in that mission there was some discussion about whether they should wear their suits throughout the mission. Were you involved in those decision-making processes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm sure I was consulted and involved in it, but in that case the final decision was made by Bob Gilruth. Of course, once we got to Apollo, there was room enough to take off suits, and that made all the difference in the world. I never was hung up on having everybody stay in suits. In fact, I kind of encouraged it to get out of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes long-term space flight more bearable for the astronauts."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:57", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 15.190434214517042, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, it did. In fact, the troops began to bet on how close they could come to the landing spot. The one that got closest used the computer-aided landing. [Laughter] As you should expect."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of the Gemini missions, one of the first longer ones, was Gemini VII with Borman and Lovell, and in that mission there was some discussion about whether they should wear their suits throughout the mission. Were you involved in those decision-making processes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I'm sure I was consulted and involved in it, but in that case the final decision was made by Bob Gilruth. Of course, once we got to Apollo, there was room enough to take off suits, and that made all the difference in the world. I never was hung up on having everybody stay in suits. In fact, I kind of encouraged it to get out of them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes long-term space flight more bearable for the astronauts."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, indeed. [Laughter] It doesn't even have to be very long term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] That's true, too. You've talked about some of the importance of Gemini. Are there any other lessons learned about Gemini that you think were especially important for Apollo?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:61", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.753622487058074, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes, indeed. [Laughter] It doesn't even have to be very long term."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] That's true, too. You've talked about some of the importance of Gemini. Are there any other lessons learned about Gemini that you think were especially important for Apollo?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, obviously the whole reentry system and the ability to control landing points were important, although I don't think there was ever any doubt about that. Perhaps the most important thing was the demonstration that you could put a program together like that and, in fact, carry it out on a schedule, which was kind of unique at that point in time, as was Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But neither of those would have been possible without the structure of program offices that we set up, in my view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's something that's often overlooked. People seem to look at the technical things and not the importance of the management."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:63", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.837358318953413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, obviously the whole reentry system and the ability to control landing points were important, although I don't think there was ever any doubt about that. Perhaps the most important thing was the demonstration that you could put a program together like that and, in fact, carry it out on a schedule, which was kind of unique at that point in time, as was Apollo."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's true."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But neither of those would have been possible without the structure of program offices that we set up, in my view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's something that's often overlooked. People seem to look at the technical things and not the importance of the management."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And yet that's the key, one of the very real keys, to the successful program. I don't know whether I mentioned it last time, that one thing I learned from that is that if a single center has the entire program under their control, they can, in fact, get the job done if you have sufficient outside pressure to cause it to happen. But if you have multiple centers working, you almost have to have an arbitrator, a person outside of the centers, who is controlling the total program. And a number of illustrations of that [are evident] in the successive programs of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of management again, most of the managers with the NASA and most technical industries of that nature are engineers. Are there some difficulties in teaching engineers how to be managers?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.93039813217046, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "But neither of those would have been possible without the structure of program offices that we set up, in my view."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's something that's often overlooked. People seem to look at the technical things and not the importance of the management."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And yet that's the key, one of the very real keys, to the successful program. I don't know whether I mentioned it last time, that one thing I learned from that is that if a single center has the entire program under their control, they can, in fact, get the job done if you have sufficient outside pressure to cause it to happen. But if you have multiple centers working, you almost have to have an arbitrator, a person outside of the centers, who is controlling the total program. And a number of illustrations of that [are evident] in the successive programs of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of management again, most of the managers with the NASA and most technical industries of that nature are engineers. Are there some difficulties in teaching engineers how to be managers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not [all] engineers become managers or are good managers. It's just who and what the personality is, I guess. I would never imagine myself as being a manager. In fact, I spent most of my first twenty years of work—well, fifteen, anyhow—avoiding being a manager and trying to do research. So I was dedicated to being a research person. Then I inadvertently got into Ramo-Wooldridge, and began to solve problems there, and it turned out management was one of them. [Laughter] So I got co-opted, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the hardest parts of being a manager?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.255997924633842, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right. And yet that's the key, one of the very real keys, to the successful program. I don't know whether I mentioned it last time, that one thing I learned from that is that if a single center has the entire program under their control, they can, in fact, get the job done if you have sufficient outside pressure to cause it to happen. But if you have multiple centers working, you almost have to have an arbitrator, a person outside of the centers, who is controlling the total program. And a number of illustrations of that [are evident] in the successive programs of NASA."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Speaking of management again, most of the managers with the NASA and most technical industries of that nature are engineers. Are there some difficulties in teaching engineers how to be managers?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not [all] engineers become managers or are good managers. It's just who and what the personality is, I guess. I would never imagine myself as being a manager. In fact, I spent most of my first twenty years of work—well, fifteen, anyhow—avoiding being a manager and trying to do research. So I was dedicated to being a research person. Then I inadvertently got into Ramo-Wooldridge, and began to solve problems there, and it turned out management was one of them. [Laughter] So I got co-opted, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the hardest parts of being a manager?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People. Always is. And having a clear enough understanding of what needs to be done and being able to communicate that to people. And I'm not particularly good at that, at least not in the large. But you have to have a vision of what you want to have done and then you have to figure out how to implement that vision and get everybody else involved in implementing it. The first thing you know, everybody's just as gung-ho as you are and they go do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of your visions was a reusable space transportation system."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:69", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 25.839997694037603, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, not [all] engineers become managers or are good managers. It's just who and what the personality is, I guess. I would never imagine myself as being a manager. In fact, I spent most of my first twenty years of work—well, fifteen, anyhow—avoiding being a manager and trying to do research. So I was dedicated to being a research person. Then I inadvertently got into Ramo-Wooldridge, and began to solve problems there, and it turned out management was one of them. [Laughter] So I got co-opted, if you will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What were some of the hardest parts of being a manager?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "People. Always is. And having a clear enough understanding of what needs to be done and being able to communicate that to people. And I'm not particularly good at that, at least not in the large. But you have to have a vision of what you want to have done and then you have to figure out how to implement that vision and get everybody else involved in implementing it. The first thing you know, everybody's just as gung-ho as you are and they go do it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "One of your visions was a reusable space transportation system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us how that got started?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 23.197679765337, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And if we had followed through on the time schedule we set up, by now we would have a colony on the Moon and an outpost on Mars."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Why do you think that NASA wasn't able to carry through with that vision?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vietnam War and the repercussions of it. Very simply. We spent all of our good will and resources on a war that, well, either shouldn't have been or we should have won. You don't go into war half way, as we're demonstrating in Iraq."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't learned from our mistakes yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Never do. You always have new people, and they all relearn the mistakes. It's one nice thing about living long enough, you hopefully do not repeat the mistakes you did earlier. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] It's true. What do you think has been the impact on NASA of a partially reusable Shuttle as opposed to a fully reusable Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 24.66408862815222, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Vietnam War and the repercussions of it. Very simply. We spent all of our good will and resources on a war that, well, either shouldn't have been or we should have won. You don't go into war half way, as we're demonstrating in Iraq."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We haven't learned from our mistakes yet."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Never do. You always have new people, and they all relearn the mistakes. It's one nice thing about living long enough, you hopefully do not repeat the mistakes you did earlier. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] It's true. What do you think has been the impact on NASA of a partially reusable Shuttle as opposed to a fully reusable Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it has caused a continuing review of whether we ought to be in space at all, and it is something that has really hobbled the space program over the last two decades, because so much of the funds that could have been used elsewhere are being absorbed in flying the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, when we were discussing Gemini, if Gemini hadn't existed, there would have been a two-year gap. There was longer than the two—several years between the ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] mission and the first Shuttle flight. What impact do you think that had on NASA?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.071209586835803, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. Never do. You always have new people, and they all relearn the mistakes. It's one nice thing about living long enough, you hopefully do not repeat the mistakes you did earlier. [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "[Laughter] It's true. What do you think has been the impact on NASA of a partially reusable Shuttle as opposed to a fully reusable Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, it has caused a continuing review of whether we ought to be in space at all, and it is something that has really hobbled the space program over the last two decades, because so much of the funds that could have been used elsewhere are being absorbed in flying the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned, when we were discussing Gemini, if Gemini hadn't existed, there would have been a two-year gap. There was longer than the two—several years between the ASTP [Apollo-Soyuz Test Project] mission and the first Shuttle flight. What impact do you think that had on NASA?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure called into question the whole management and the whole space program itself. There were successive efforts to cancel the program and cancel NASA, for that matter, within the Congress. Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed, or at least politically wiser heads prevailed. But it's been a drag. It is a drag. It uses up funds unnecessarily, and yet the cost of replacing it is now very large indeed.\\n\\n To me, the amazing thing is, the Shuttle has not been superseded by a follow-on Shuttle long before now, because obviously a design that was built, designed in early 1970, should not be the thing we're flying today, twenty-eight years later. It is one of the characteristics of government that it does not depreciate things, and if you had a depreciation schedule, you would have replaced the Shuttle by now. I think that's important, but something the government seems to be unable to appreciate. They think that an investment is immutable and never wears out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been called the father of the Space Shuttle. How did you get that title?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:85", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 28.48297479856272, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It sure called into question the whole management and the whole space program itself. There were successive efforts to cancel the program and cancel NASA, for that matter, within the Congress. Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed, or at least politically wiser heads prevailed. But it's been a drag. It is a drag. It uses up funds unnecessarily, and yet the cost of replacing it is now very large indeed.\\n\\n To me, the amazing thing is, the Shuttle has not been superseded by a follow-on Shuttle long before now, because obviously a design that was built, designed in early 1970, should not be the thing we're flying today, twenty-eight years later. It is one of the characteristics of government that it does not depreciate things, and if you had a depreciation schedule, you would have replaced the Shuttle by now. I think that's important, but something the government seems to be unable to appreciate. They think that an investment is immutable and never wears out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've been called the father of the Space Shuttle. How did you get that title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By forcing it through. You know, in order for the Space Shuttle to be approved at all, I had to get the Air Force and all of the centers to agree that we would replace the existing arsenal of expendable vehicles with a reusable vehicle, thus saving everybody huge amounts of money. It was that agreement that I managed to get with the Air Force and the DOD [Department of Defense], really, and the NASA centers, as well as our management there, that made it possible to go forward with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of opposition did you encounter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody wants to do their own thing, and who was going to depend upon NASA to produce this marvelous new machine? But eventually they did, because everybody wanted a low-cost access to space, and no one had a better idea. Still don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in hindsight, looking at the circumstances that surrounded the Shuttle development, that it would have been possible for NASA to develop a fully reusable Shuttle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:87", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 24.98108310951413, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By forcing it through. You know, in order for the Space Shuttle to be approved at all, I had to get the Air Force and all of the centers to agree that we would replace the existing arsenal of expendable vehicles with a reusable vehicle, thus saving everybody huge amounts of money. It was that agreement that I managed to get with the Air Force and the DOD [Department of Defense], really, and the NASA centers, as well as our management there, that made it possible to go forward with the Shuttle."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What kind of opposition did you encounter?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody wants to do their own thing, and who was going to depend upon NASA to produce this marvelous new machine? But eventually they did, because everybody wanted a low-cost access to space, and no one had a better idea. Still don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in hindsight, looking at the circumstances that surrounded the Shuttle development, that it would have been possible for NASA to develop a fully reusable Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If any of our administrators had taken the position that the only way it makes sense to build this vehicle is to make it fully reusable, yes, it's going to cost more to build it in the first place, but it will save you more money in the long run than you can possibly spend on the front end. They said, \"Well, we can't do that.\" \"Well, then we can't build it. What would you like us to do then, since you don't like what we're doing?\" Now, politically that's not politically correct, but it's the only way you get some of these things done. Either that or else have Russia decide they're going to build one and then you can do it. But even that didn't faze our folks.\\n\\n Our whole economy is based upon what can you do next month or next year. If it's longer than a year away, it's infinite. That's the whole mind-set of the management of most of the corporations, certainly of the government. Two years is an infinity. One year is barely conceivable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes it difficult for research and development."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 27.756759010571255, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody wants to do their own thing, and who was going to depend upon NASA to produce this marvelous new machine? But eventually they did, because everybody wanted a low-cost access to space, and no one had a better idea. Still don't."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think, in hindsight, looking at the circumstances that surrounded the Shuttle development, that it would have been possible for NASA to develop a fully reusable Shuttle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "If any of our administrators had taken the position that the only way it makes sense to build this vehicle is to make it fully reusable, yes, it's going to cost more to build it in the first place, but it will save you more money in the long run than you can possibly spend on the front end. They said, \"Well, we can't do that.\" \"Well, then we can't build it. What would you like us to do then, since you don't like what we're doing?\" Now, politically that's not politically correct, but it's the only way you get some of these things done. Either that or else have Russia decide they're going to build one and then you can do it. But even that didn't faze our folks.\\n\\n Our whole economy is based upon what can you do next month or next year. If it's longer than a year away, it's infinite. That's the whole mind-set of the management of most of the corporations, certainly of the government. Two years is an infinity. One year is barely conceivable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes it difficult for research and development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does indeed. It's amazing as much gets done as it does. Mostly it's inertia. I mean, doing things in a constructive way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career at NASA, were there any people in particular that had a significant impact on you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 30.840843345079172, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "If any of our administrators had taken the position that the only way it makes sense to build this vehicle is to make it fully reusable, yes, it's going to cost more to build it in the first place, but it will save you more money in the long run than you can possibly spend on the front end. They said, \"Well, we can't do that.\" \"Well, then we can't build it. What would you like us to do then, since you don't like what we're doing?\" Now, politically that's not politically correct, but it's the only way you get some of these things done. Either that or else have Russia decide they're going to build one and then you can do it. But even that didn't faze our folks.\\n\\n Our whole economy is based upon what can you do next month or next year. If it's longer than a year away, it's infinite. That's the whole mind-set of the management of most of the corporations, certainly of the government. Two years is an infinity. One year is barely conceivable."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It makes it difficult for research and development."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does indeed. It's amazing as much gets done as it does. Mostly it's inertia. I mean, doing things in a constructive way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career at NASA, were there any people in particular that had a significant impact on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Lots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us a few examples."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 20.9342703834213, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It does indeed. It's amazing as much gets done as it does. Mostly it's inertia. I mean, doing things in a constructive way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During your career at NASA, were there any people in particular that had a significant impact on you?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Lots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us a few examples."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, take Jim Webb or take Bob Seamans or take Homer [E.] Newell. There are different kinds of impacts. Or take—a friend of mine [Jim Beggs], the guy that just left NASA at the time of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n [STS-51L]. At that time he was head of the Office of Technology. I know him very well. Anyway, he had an impact, because we worked with him in his center in doing things like the gyroscopes that were used on the Skylab, really was the first real application of gyros for attitude stabilization. And then, of course, there was Bob Gilruth and Wernher [von Braun] and Kurt [H. Debus] were tremendous influences, as were George [M.] Low and [Joseph F.] Shea and Eberhard [F. M.] Rees and a whole host of people.\\n\\n And then, of course, at another level, Chuck [Charles W.] Matthews and, I don't know, you can just name all the key people. They all had a tremendous impact on me and maybe I had some small impact on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you did. Looking back at your time at NASA, is there anything you would have done differently?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 22.149189314912554, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, yes. Lots."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Give us a few examples."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, take Jim Webb or take Bob Seamans or take Homer [E.] Newell. There are different kinds of impacts. Or take—a friend of mine [Jim Beggs], the guy that just left NASA at the time of the\\n\\n Challenger\\n\\n [STS-51L]. At that time he was head of the Office of Technology. I know him very well. Anyway, he had an impact, because we worked with him in his center in doing things like the gyroscopes that were used on the Skylab, really was the first real application of gyros for attitude stabilization. And then, of course, there was Bob Gilruth and Wernher [von Braun] and Kurt [H. Debus] were tremendous influences, as were George [M.] Low and [Joseph F.] Shea and Eberhard [F. M.] Rees and a whole host of people.\\n\\n And then, of course, at another level, Chuck [Charles W.] Matthews and, I don't know, you can just name all the key people. They all had a tremendous impact on me and maybe I had some small impact on them."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm sure you did. Looking back at your time at NASA, is there anything you would have done differently?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wish I had been able to glue that plan down a little more firmly. On the other hand, I don't know that it would have made any difference, because when I left, Tom [Thomas O.] Paine was thoroughly in support of the plan, but then he left. I don't know, if I had stayed on, whether it would have made much difference one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel were your greatest successes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:99", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 26.11011026532414, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I wish I had been able to glue that plan down a little more firmly. On the other hand, I don't know that it would have made any difference, because when I left, Tom [Thomas O.] Paine was thoroughly in support of the plan, but then he left. I don't know, if I had stayed on, whether it would have made much difference one way or the other."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What do you feel were your greatest successes?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Getting to the Moon on time. What else? [Laughter] No, actually, probably even a greater thing was putting in place a follow-on program that would begin to exploit what we'd accomplished in Apollo. The real problem with Apollo was that it was a one-time event, essentially, and it wasn't built to carry on a lunar exploration program, for example. But we did put in place the program that exploited what was left of the Apollo thing, Skylab and those programs, and then laid the groundwork for what were the first two steps in our long-range plan, which we're now implementing. I think we lost a vision, and Dan [Daniel S.] Goldin is beginning to bring the vision back, which is great."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "What did you feel was your greatest challenge?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "One? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You can give several. [Laughter]"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 14.85788265918, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, you can afford to build one now."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So what did you do between the time you left NASA and when you started—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I went and ran a company, a couple of companies. I went to work for General Dynamics and ran their defense systems, and then I got a job as CEO, Chairman of the System Development Corporation [SDC], a corporation that was originally a not-for-profit, working for the Air Force in developing the software for the Air Force systems, early warning system. Most of the software that SAC [Strategic Air Command] has was built by SDC. And ran it for about twelve years. Then I retired. Well, I sold … the company to Burroughs [phonetic] and stayed there for a year or two, and then retired.\\n\\n At that time I was President of the International Academy of Astronautics, so I was working on that, and went out and did some investing in various things and actually ended up running a farm, a jojoba [phonetic] farm. That was an experience, clearly one not to be repeated very often in one's life, but, nevertheless, very interesting. Jojoba is a replacement for sperm whale oil. It was the time when the sperm whales were being protected, and it seemed like a good idea to do something that would replace that commodity. Turns out to be harder to domesticate plants than it is animals. [Laughter] And so it took a while to get it to where it was a reasonable thing to do.\\n\\n Then I got involved with [Kistler] because I always have been interested in reusable launch vehicles ever since I thought about them, and this was a great opportunity to do something constructive and to have some fun. That's why my friends are with me, too."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's important to have fun."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Looking back over your career and thinking about when you got into aeronautics and aerospace, would you have ever imagined where it would all lead you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:128", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.0311820000000007, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. As a matter of fact, the [Apollo] one was set up to do that kind of support activity, and essentially what we were able to do was to short-circuit that with the Gemini Program … But originally it was contemplated that the Saturn I would have a number of flights in which all of this work that we did in Gemini would have been carried out. And they could have been, but we probably would not have landed on the Moon in the decade."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like you made the right choices, then. Also talking about Gemini, you talked about the paraglider program, but one of the other differences in the Gemini Program was the escape system, that Gemini used the ejection seats rather than the launch escape tower. Were you involved with that choice?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was kind of involved in it, but not in any depth. I was involved in the escape system on Apollo, but I never could persuade them that it didn't make any sense. It's like putting ejection seats in the Space Shuttle. They're useful for about one minute. Not even that long. Thirty seconds of the flight path. So after that, they aren't any good, so you're better off with putting a little more weight in for safety and not having this kind of escape route.\\n\\n But, unfortunately, all the astronauts are pilots, and so they have the idea that they want … to have an ejection seat or the equivalent thereof. I never was able to persuade them differently. The Shuttle just simply doesn't accommodate ejection seats, although they looked at it very hard. So they didn't put it in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be hard, when you have a crew on both the upper deck and the lower deck, trying to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully they have found a good solution. Of course, hopefully they'll never have to test the solutions for escaping on the Shuttle."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:130", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.3679800000000006, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was kind of involved in it, but not in any depth. I was involved in the escape system on Apollo, but I never could persuade them that it didn't make any sense. It's like putting ejection seats in the Space Shuttle. They're useful for about one minute. Not even that long. Thirty seconds of the flight path. So after that, they aren't any good, so you're better off with putting a little more weight in for safety and not having this kind of escape route.\\n\\n But, unfortunately, all the astronauts are pilots, and so they have the idea that they want … to have an ejection seat or the equivalent thereof. I never was able to persuade them differently. The Shuttle just simply doesn't accommodate ejection seats, although they looked at it very hard. So they didn't put it in there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That would be hard, when you have a crew on both the upper deck and the lower deck, trying to—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully they have found a good solution. Of course, hopefully they'll never have to test the solutions for escaping on the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I prefer that alternative. I would not like to try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to jump forward a little bit now. You were talking about the plan for following on Apollo with the nodes and the step-by-step system, and eventually getting to Mars. When you were planning this and then when you did see the Shuttle was going to be the first step and it would take a little while before the others could follow on, did you ever realize or even imagine that it would take so long to achieve that plan?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:132", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 3.7422000000000004, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eject."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Hopefully they have found a good solution. Of course, hopefully they'll never have to test the solutions for escaping on the Shuttle."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I prefer that alternative. I would not like to try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to jump forward a little bit now. You were talking about the plan for following on Apollo with the nodes and the step-by-step system, and eventually getting to Mars. When you were planning this and then when you did see the Shuttle was going to be the first step and it would take a little while before the others could follow on, did you ever realize or even imagine that it would take so long to achieve that plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I couldn't imagine it then, can't imagine it now, but it's happened, really. But the plan we laid out is a logical plan, and so it's the kind of stuff you're going to have to go through. I think perhaps the greatest worry I would have is that politically we'll decide to do an excursion to Mars instead of an exploration of Mars, because literally what we did with the Moon was to have an excursion to the Moon. That, at the time, is what we should do, but we didn't really follow up with the exploration of the Moon. We're just now beginning to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning with some of the unmanned probes that are going back, like Clementine, and more exploration of it."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 4.158, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I prefer that alternative. I would not like to try."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I'm going to jump forward a little bit now. You were talking about the plan for following on Apollo with the nodes and the step-by-step system, and eventually getting to Mars. When you were planning this and then when you did see the Shuttle was going to be the first step and it would take a little while before the others could follow on, did you ever realize or even imagine that it would take so long to achieve that plan?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I couldn't imagine it then, can't imagine it now, but it's happened, really. But the plan we laid out is a logical plan, and so it's the kind of stuff you're going to have to go through. I think perhaps the greatest worry I would have is that politically we'll decide to do an excursion to Mars instead of an exploration of Mars, because literally what we did with the Moon was to have an excursion to the Moon. That, at the time, is what we should do, but we didn't really follow up with the exploration of the Moon. We're just now beginning to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning with some of the unmanned probes that are going back, like Clementine, and more exploration of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually it will be men, and it's just a matter of how soon the politicians decide this is something that's in the nature of fate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe if NASA could ever get that great PR firm, that would help foster the—"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 4.62, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, no, I couldn't imagine it then, can't imagine it now, but it's happened, really. But the plan we laid out is a logical plan, and so it's the kind of stuff you're going to have to go through. I think perhaps the greatest worry I would have is that politically we'll decide to do an excursion to Mars instead of an exploration of Mars, because literally what we did with the Moon was to have an excursion to the Moon. That, at the time, is what we should do, but we didn't really follow up with the exploration of the Moon. We're just now beginning to do that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Beginning with some of the unmanned probes that are going back, like Clementine, and more exploration of it."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually it will be men, and it's just a matter of how soon the politicians decide this is something that's in the nature of fate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe if NASA could ever get that great PR firm, that would help foster the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it's interesting. We did have resources in Apollo for PR. They were volunteers. But it is very difficult to sell space as anything other than a vision, and we haven't had any PR firms that have vision, that I've seen, because it really has to be faith that there's something there that's worthwhile. I always say, if we had been able to find some diamonds on the Moon, we would have been way ahead of the game. Then we would have had an exploration program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, definitely. Hopefully, one of these days the spinoffs and the applications will become more recognized."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:138", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 1.8, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Eventually it will be men, and it's just a matter of how soon the politicians decide this is something that's in the nature of fate."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, maybe if NASA could ever get that great PR firm, that would help foster the—"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it's interesting. We did have resources in Apollo for PR. They were volunteers. But it is very difficult to sell space as anything other than a vision, and we haven't had any PR firms that have vision, that I've seen, because it really has to be faith that there's something there that's worthwhile. I always say, if we had been able to find some diamonds on the Moon, we would have been way ahead of the game. Then we would have had an exploration program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, definitely. Hopefully, one of these days the spinoffs and the applications will become more recognized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody seems to think they're magic. [Laughter] Just appear out of nowhere. And that's the problem. It does take a while from the time you have a new technology to where you get it to play. When I left Bell Labs, for example, they had just discovered the transistor, and that was in 1946. It was twenty years later, in the ballistic missile program, that we finally got transistors to the point where they were reliable enough to use. In fact, the Minuteman Program probably did more to advance the integrated circuit work than almost any other thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. I guess you don't think about the stages that something has to go through from the initial conception to common usage, because most people don't hear about it until it is more common."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:140", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 2.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Yes, it's interesting. We did have resources in Apollo for PR. They were volunteers. But it is very difficult to sell space as anything other than a vision, and we haven't had any PR firms that have vision, that I've seen, because it really has to be faith that there's something there that's worthwhile. I always say, if we had been able to find some diamonds on the Moon, we would have been way ahead of the game. Then we would have had an exploration program."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Oh, definitely. Hopefully, one of these days the spinoffs and the applications will become more recognized."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody seems to think they're magic. [Laughter] Just appear out of nowhere. And that's the problem. It does take a while from the time you have a new technology to where you get it to play. When I left Bell Labs, for example, they had just discovered the transistor, and that was in 1946. It was twenty years later, in the ballistic missile program, that we finally got transistors to the point where they were reliable enough to use. In fact, the Minuteman Program probably did more to advance the integrated circuit work than almost any other thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. I guess you don't think about the stages that something has to go through from the initial conception to common usage, because most people don't hear about it until it is more common."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have one last question. We talked about Kistler and you becoming involved. What was it that actually got you involved?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:142", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, everybody seems to think they're magic. [Laughter] Just appear out of nowhere. And that's the problem. It does take a while from the time you have a new technology to where you get it to play. When I left Bell Labs, for example, they had just discovered the transistor, and that was in 1946. It was twenty years later, in the ballistic missile program, that we finally got transistors to the point where they were reliable enough to use. In fact, the Minuteman Program probably did more to advance the integrated circuit work than almost any other thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Interesting. I guess you don't think about the stages that something has to go through from the initial conception to common usage, because most people don't hear about it until it is more common."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have one last question. We talked about Kistler and you becoming involved. What was it that actually got you involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A guy had promised me we would have enough money to build it. [Laughter] He's my partner, who's now trying to get the money to build it. So far he's only gotten 400 million, and we only need another 400 million, so we're halfway there. But the last half is proving to be a little more difficult than we imagined because of the Asian crisis and Russia going out of business, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The world economy does seem to be in a little bit of a turmoil."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00444:144", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I did have one last question. We talked about Kistler and you becoming involved. What was it that actually got you involved?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "A guy had promised me we would have enough money to build it. [Laughter] He's my partner, who's now trying to get the money to build it. So far he's only gotten 400 million, and we only need another 400 million, so we're halfway there. But the last half is proving to be a little more difficult than we imagined because of the Asian crisis and Russia going out of business, that kind of thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The world economy does seem to be in a little bit of a turmoil."}, {"role": "user", "content": "And, unfortunately, although we may not recognize it here, we're part of that economy, and it hasn't quite caught up with us, but it will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, it definitely will. That's all I have, other than to say I look forward to seeing Kistler succeed."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:13", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 25.77006739058755, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I became informed by reading some of the details on the notices. It said research, it said experimental work, aircraft, so I had a clue, and I already had an interest in aviation—I mentioned my uncle [who flew]—and I was in the Army Air Corps, which didn’t make me very well informed, but it did stimulate my interest a little more. [Also, I took flying lessons in college, on the G.I. Bill, long enough to solo.] The main thing that drew me, whether it was aviation or not, was the experimental work. I had asked my physics prof, when I was going to this little parochial school, I said, “I really want to do experimental work. What are my chances of making a living at it?”\\n\\n And he said, “Well, not very good, because you’d have to get your master’s degree, at least, and preferably your Ph.D. to get experimental work.” Well, I believed him, but it turned out I got experimental work of the very best kind with just a bachelor’s [degree. It was as if I was being led by my hand – essential doors just kept opening before me!]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were you aware of the work with the X-1 that was being done before you actually came here and then started working on it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had a beautiful thing just dumped in my lap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing, absolutely. And all through my career it’s actually kind of been that way. I’m one lucky guy. [Actually I should say, “One blessed guy.”]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you were in physics, what was your title when you started? Was it research engineer? Did you have an engineering title?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 6, "return_to_go": 23.07785265620839, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. I had a beautiful thing just dumped in my lap."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It’s amazing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Amazing, absolutely. And all through my career it’s actually kind of been that way. I’m one lucky guy. [Actually I should say, “One blessed guy.”]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Since you were in physics, what was your title when you started? Was it research engineer? Did you have an engineering title?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’m embarrassed to say, because it sounded so—it sounded like something that was made up to be impressive. And it wasn’t just my title, all of the other persons that came in at that time, in response to those application forms, had the same title. You’ll agree it sounded kind of hokey: Aeronautical Research Scientist. We weren’t scientists, but that’s the title, Aeronautical Research Scientist. We snickered when we saw that. We knew we weren’t scientists. However, the nature of the NACA was that you became acquainted with scientists and [on occasion] were mentored by some of them. That was [a wonderful thing].\\n\\n For example, one of the primary aeronautical geniuses of those decades was Dr. Richard [T.] Whitcomb at Langley Research Center [Hampton, Virginia]. I was privileged to work on all three of his inventions, and I copied, mimicked, I’m not sure what the right term is—I tried to think like [he thought]. I didn’t have the intellectual tools that he had, but I studied how he thought, and it was a great benefit to me."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I was going to ask you about other mentors and people that you worked with that you felt like you learned from."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:21", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 23.4264096792982, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Dr. Whitcomb would have been an example of a scientist that was an “unknowing” mentor. I so very much appreciate the mentoring provided by Hubert Drake (mostly by example), Donald Bellman, Ronald Knapp, Harold Walker, and Scott Crossfield. And there were others whose intellect and work habits influenced me. Back to] Whitcomb, he was unaware that I was observing and trying to understand his way of thinking, but it really stuck. His secret to all three of his inventions was to try to visualize in his mind where an air molecule would want to go as it encountered the [proximity of] certain faces, certain slopes, certain surfaces on an aerodynamic vehicle, [taking account of compressibility effects and shock waves, if present.] I knew that, and so I adopted that way of thinking too, and it just greased the skids, it made things a lot easier."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So it changed your perspective to start thinking more in that way."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it’s a powerful tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that when you first started, you started working on the X-1 number 2. What were you doing with that? Was it the L/D [lift to drag ratio] studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, with accelerometers and a few other instruments you would be able to resolve the forces acting on the airplane and end up with the lift and the drag and convert it into the various metrics that are of interest for [analyzing and] publishing lift/drag work. That resulted in my first publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as publishing for NACA, I know they were very well respected, the technical reports and the papers that were published by the NACA."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:23", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 26.02934408810911, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yeah, it’s a powerful tool."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned that when you first started, you started working on the X-1 number 2. What were you doing with that? Was it the L/D [lift to drag ratio] studies?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, with accelerometers and a few other instruments you would be able to resolve the forces acting on the airplane and end up with the lift and the drag and convert it into the various metrics that are of interest for [analyzing and] publishing lift/drag work. That resulted in my first publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as publishing for NACA, I know they were very well respected, the technical reports and the papers that were published by the NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you introduced to that process? Did you work with other people as they were publishing first? Or did they drop you into it and say, “You’re going to do this work and we want you to publish it”?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:25", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 28.921493431232342, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, with accelerometers and a few other instruments you would be able to resolve the forces acting on the airplane and end up with the lift and the drag and convert it into the various metrics that are of interest for [analyzing and] publishing lift/drag work. That resulted in my first publication."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "As far as publishing for NACA, I know they were very well respected, the technical reports and the papers that were published by the NACA."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you introduced to that process? Did you work with other people as they were publishing first? Or did they drop you into it and say, “You’re going to do this work and we want you to publish it”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did drop it onto me, but what I did, I cheated. I dug up some previously published reports and studied how they presented the data, how they analyzed it, how they explained it, and I copied them. Copied the ideas, you know, I didn’t copy the words. So again, the skids were greased. I’m basically lazy, and I just do it as easily as I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I imagine you worked with editors and the people actually doing the production of the paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:27", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 8, "return_to_go": 28.801659368035935, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s true."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How were you introduced to that process? Did you work with other people as they were publishing first? Or did they drop you into it and say, “You’re going to do this work and we want you to publish it”?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "They did drop it onto me, but what I did, I cheated. I dug up some previously published reports and studied how they presented the data, how they analyzed it, how they explained it, and I copied them. Copied the ideas, you know, I didn’t copy the words. So again, the skids were greased. I’m basically lazy, and I just do it as easily as I can."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Then I imagine you worked with editors and the people actually doing the production of the paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and they had excellent editors, just excellent. I admired them even when they changed my words. I came to respect them a great deal, and I also came to enjoy writing myself, and that also greased the skids. [Three excellent editors really cleaned up my proposed writings. They were Helen Foley for the NACA period, and later Lita Holleman, and still later, Yvonne Kellog. There were also other excellent editors that helped me for shorter periods.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you to do that first paper?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 25.68106094819251, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and they had excellent editors, just excellent. I admired them even when they changed my words. I came to respect them a great deal, and I also came to enjoy writing myself, and that also greased the skids. [Three excellent editors really cleaned up my proposed writings. They were Helen Foley for the NACA period, and later Lita Holleman, and still later, Yvonne Kellog. There were also other excellent editors that helped me for shorter periods.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long did it take you to do that first paper?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, I arrived in the summer of ’51, and the first publication was in 1953. Of course the assembling of the data takes the longest, and then when you get it assembled, then it’s a matter of [analyzing the results and then] fitting into the procedure that they have, and there’s always a backlog of other publications that are ahead of you, and you wait your turn. The ’51 to ’53 thing would not be excessively long at all, it was probably fairly normal.\\n\\n Another thing that greases the skids is enjoying the writing. If you don’t, then it becomes laborious, and a lot of the guys [did not enjoy the writing duties]. Iowa Wesleyan is a liberal arts school, it’s not an engineering school, and I think coming from a liberal arts school was another thing that helped me. By the way, it was the oldest four-year school west of the Mississippi [River]; it’s been around [since 1842]. It had been in business a fair amount before the Civil War."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I imagine that liberal arts background did help you with writing. You probably did that a lot in school, too."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and strangely enough, I enjoyed the writing in the school, too. I had no clue that was going to help me [in an engineering job], but it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. In doing the technical papers, were there support personnel? I know that computers, of course, helped reduce data and do that sort of thing, but as far as doing the papers, were there graphics people doing the charts?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 30.47044561505248, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, and strangely enough, I enjoyed the writing in the school, too. I had no clue that was going to help me [in an engineering job], but it did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting. In doing the technical papers, were there support personnel? I know that computers, of course, helped reduce data and do that sort of thing, but as far as doing the papers, were there graphics people doing the charts?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. Matter of fact—I suspect you’ve heard of Roxanah [B.] Yancey. She was the head computer. She did a lot of the graphics herself. When you see some of the graphics in those early reports, including my first report, she did it. She was quite particular [and improved all of the reports she worked on]. She was a great lady. [Later on under the NASA umbrella, we also had the very best support, very talented and committed workers that employed the latest hi-tech stuff.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work a lot with the computers and that group of people that did that work?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made sure [that we] became good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It always helps, doesn’t it?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 37.61783409265738, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I made sure [that we] became good friends."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It always helps, doesn’t it?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Greases the skids."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That sounds self-serving, but everybody benefits when you approach it that way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you first came, you were on the South Base, on that side, and the working conditions on the South Base were different than it was in 1954, when they built the new facility on the Main Base. Can you just talk a little bit about that South Base and where you were in the setup, where you were located and where you worked, and just a little bit about that area?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 56.149871938102955, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [the earliest work we did on that project was known as Project 1226. However,] there were quite a few things I did before we got the X-15. The very next thing I did was the only work I ever did outside of lift and drag and performance. It was on the [Northrop] X-4 [Bantam], and they asked me to do a stability and control [analysis] on it, which resulted in my second publication. I didn’t know stability and control. Scott Crossfield, whom you’ve heard of, was the pilot. He [said he] was a farm kid, too, by the way. He knew I was going to do some stability and control work, and he knew that I didn’t know anything about the subject.\\n\\n I want to contradict some myths about Scott Crossfield. He was generally considered to be a little on the dashing, cocky side, and some might even have thought of him as being arrogant. I saw a softer side in him. He mentored me in stability and control, and it worked out well. I’ve always honored him for that. He didn’t have to. He could have said, [based on his position], “The guy you’ve assigned to this doesn’t know the subject. You gotta get somebody else.” He didn’t do that. [Instead he was patient and mentored me effectively enough that I did a credible job. I’m very grateful for his understanding and thoughtfulness.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "During that time, also the Korean War was happening. Did that affect the research that was doing here as far as, did you have security clearances and those kind of things? Were you working on anything that had to have a clearance?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [most of] our publications through that period of time were confidential."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. From the X-4, I went on to—does the term Century Series fighters [aircraft] mean anything to you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have heard that term before, but go ahead and explain that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:53", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 57.94430215344772, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, [most of] our publications through that period of time were confidential."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were they?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. From the X-4, I went on to—does the term Century Series fighters [aircraft] mean anything to you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have heard that term before, but go ahead and explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The reason they called them Century Series is that there was a series of fighter pursuit-type aircraft, by now jet-propelled instead of propeller, that were being proposed, and then prototypes built and tested, and then the Air Force or the Navy would, based on results, decide which one to buy. Among them was the 102, [Convair] F-102 [Delta Dagger]. It was a delta-wing airplane. I worked on that between the X-4 and Project 1226, that you referred to. That’s when I was first introduced to Whitcomb, because, you see, the area rule was first applied on a Navy plane, which I did not work on, and also the 102, which I did work on. I think I had about five publications on the 102, I believe, and it was a great privilege to be involved with the area rule, which is, of course, [Whitcomb’s] first major invention that I’m aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you met him. Did he come out here?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:55", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 10, "return_to_go": 64.38255794827525, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, yes. From the X-4, I went on to—does the term Century Series fighters [aircraft] mean anything to you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I have heard that term before, but go ahead and explain that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "The reason they called them Century Series is that there was a series of fighter pursuit-type aircraft, by now jet-propelled instead of propeller, that were being proposed, and then prototypes built and tested, and then the Air Force or the Navy would, based on results, decide which one to buy. Among them was the 102, [Convair] F-102 [Delta Dagger]. It was a delta-wing airplane. I worked on that between the X-4 and Project 1226, that you referred to. That’s when I was first introduced to Whitcomb, because, you see, the area rule was first applied on a Navy plane, which I did not work on, and also the 102, which I did work on. I think I had about five publications on the 102, I believe, and it was a great privilege to be involved with the area rule, which is, of course, [Whitcomb’s] first major invention that I’m aware of."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And you met him. Did he come out here?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "He’d come out once in a while, yes. A chain-smoking, intense person. Extremely intense. Sometimes there could be all kinds of conversations going around him and he was so intense and concentrated in his thinking that he could filter it all out. Amazing man. [He was the epitome of innovation.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And it was an interesting time in the country, in trying to get ahead. You mentioned Scott Crossfield, and of course the other pilots. He was helping you with stability and control, but how closely did you normally work with those test pilots?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:75", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 35.57900905693322, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, our Lifting Body work, I guess, began about 1960, ’61 or ’62. Something like that, I guess. Maybe ’61. Of course [R.] Dale Reed, whom you’re probably well acquainted with, deserves all kinds of credit for getting us into it [that early]. Now, Langley and Ames [Research Center, Moffett Field, California] both proposed [reentry] configurations, and Dale picked up on that right away. You’re already aware, I think, of how he started building a [small scale] model of the Ames model, [i.e., the M2]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was the plywood one?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Well, after demonstrating the small model, the plywood M2-F1 was approved.] It was the Ames [shape]. The Langley one was the HL-10, and he did not build that one. There again, that’s the beauty of Paul Bikle’s mindset, in that he supported Dale in that and more or less just went ahead with it whether Headquarters [wanted] it or not, and made it work. And of course the pilots loved that too, it gave them something new that no one had ever flown before. Milt Thompson was quick [to support the Lifting Body and—]what did you call it, the Rogallo wing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The flying wing? The Paresev?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [the Paresev] and also the Lifting Body."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on the Lifting Body project?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:77", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 37.31001006325913, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Well, after demonstrating the small model, the plywood M2-F1 was approved.] It was the Ames [shape]. The Langley one was the HL-10, and he did not build that one. There again, that’s the beauty of Paul Bikle’s mindset, in that he supported Dale in that and more or less just went ahead with it whether Headquarters [wanted] it or not, and made it work. And of course the pilots loved that too, it gave them something new that no one had ever flown before. Milt Thompson was quick [to support the Lifting Body and—]what did you call it, the Rogallo wing?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "The flying wing? The Paresev?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [the Paresev] and also the Lifting Body."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on the Lifting Body project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By then I was supervising engineers [in our branch] that did, so I kept abreast of it, yes. [Outside of our branch I mentored Vic [Victor W.] Horton and Dick [Richard E.] Klein on their M2-F1 lift and drag work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved on into supervisory positions."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:79", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 40.34445562584347, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, [the Paresev] and also the Lifting Body."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on the Lifting Body project?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "By then I was supervising engineers [in our branch] that did, so I kept abreast of it, yes. [Outside of our branch I mentored Vic [Victor W.] Horton and Dick [Richard E.] Klein on their M2-F1 lift and drag work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved on into supervisory positions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of. I always denied that I was a supervisor, and it was frustrating to my supervisors, but I kept close to [the Lifting Body data throughout]. And in later publications that I produced, particularly right before I retired, I used all [the subsonic Lifting Body data]. From all of the Lifting Bodies and the X-15 and the Shuttle, it turns out that they combine into a unified package of [all horizontal landing] entry vehicles, and consequently I was reintroduced to all of the Lifting Body work and interpreted [those results, the X-15 data and the Shuttle data as a unified generic family because they all have large blunt base surfaces]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in the early ’70s, I was reading about your work on the bow waves on trucks and how that came about. Do you want to talk about that for a minute? Because that’s so different, but how that’s related to airplanes and aerodynamics and that sort of thing. If you want to just talk about how that idea came to you and what brought that about."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:81", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 29, "return_to_go": 43.716061806492746, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "By then I was supervising engineers [in our branch] that did, so I kept abreast of it, yes. [Outside of our branch I mentored Vic [Victor W.] Horton and Dick [Richard E.] Klein on their M2-F1 lift and drag work.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So you moved on into supervisory positions."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sort of. I always denied that I was a supervisor, and it was frustrating to my supervisors, but I kept close to [the Lifting Body data throughout]. And in later publications that I produced, particularly right before I retired, I used all [the subsonic Lifting Body data]. From all of the Lifting Bodies and the X-15 and the Shuttle, it turns out that they combine into a unified package of [all horizontal landing] entry vehicles, and consequently I was reintroduced to all of the Lifting Body work and interpreted [those results, the X-15 data and the Shuttle data as a unified generic family because they all have large blunt base surfaces]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was it in the early ’70s, I was reading about your work on the bow waves on trucks and how that came about. Do you want to talk about that for a minute? Because that’s so different, but how that’s related to airplanes and aerodynamics and that sort of thing. If you want to just talk about how that idea came to you and what brought that about."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Sure. Have you been exposed to [Christian] Gelzer’s work?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, the book [Fairing Well: From Shoebox to Bat Truck and Beyond – Aerodynamic Truck Research at NASA Dryden Flight Research Center]. I was looking through that."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:89", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 18.849354986271518, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. You try to visualize where those molecules are going to go, and it’s such a simple thing [and often quite helpful]. It sometimes prevents you from overlooking something."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "And during that time period in the ’70s, too, when you were doing that work, there were other things happening, and there was talk about even closing the Center at some point when the X-15 was over with, and because of the way things were until other work came along. Then the Shuttle changed a lot of the focus, the public perception of what work was being done out here, and being a place for the Approach and Landing Tests [ALT] and then the landings. Do you want to talk about what you were doing during that time? Were you working on or overseeing any engineers working on the Shuttle work, anything with the Shuttle or the ALT landings?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here again, if you’re doing lift and drag work, you’re sort of on the periphery, in a way, but [eventually] I used the ALT lift and drag data in several publications [that I mentioned earlier, i.e., publications which demonstrated how all blunt-based reentry vehicles (for horizontal landing) belong to a generic family, and how the base flow characteristics obey unifying equations at subsonic speeds. The Shuttle data were a part of this, and it’s interesting that the base flow characteristics of large trucks also belong to this generic family.\\n\\n So, I believe it is clear that my work did not contribute to the Shuttle; however, I borrowed from the Shuttle by the use of its lift and drag data to formulate the unifying concept, mentioned earlier, which will be useful for reentry designers in the future. I feel fortunate to have tasted that small portion of Shuttle flight results. By the way, have I mentioned that earlier we worked on the XB-70?]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on the B-70?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then, much later, the [Grumman] X-29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:91", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 18.721505540301685, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Here again, if you’re doing lift and drag work, you’re sort of on the periphery, in a way, but [eventually] I used the ALT lift and drag data in several publications [that I mentioned earlier, i.e., publications which demonstrated how all blunt-based reentry vehicles (for horizontal landing) belong to a generic family, and how the base flow characteristics obey unifying equations at subsonic speeds. The Shuttle data were a part of this, and it’s interesting that the base flow characteristics of large trucks also belong to this generic family.\\n\\n So, I believe it is clear that my work did not contribute to the Shuttle; however, I borrowed from the Shuttle by the use of its lift and drag data to formulate the unifying concept, mentioned earlier, which will be useful for reentry designers in the future. I feel fortunate to have tasted that small portion of Shuttle flight results. By the way, have I mentioned that earlier we worked on the XB-70?]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You worked on the B-70?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then, much later, the [Grumman] X-29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was a very innovative thing, too, that came from the minds of Jake and Gene [J.] Matranga and Donald [R.] Bellman. Donald Bellman was my immediate supervisor. Great guy, great guy. He let [his team] do most anything we wanted to [as long as we completed the assigned duties, he encouraged playful/thoughtful innovation!] As long as we didn’t embarrass him, he turned us loose [to explore possibilities]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you remember the first ALT landing, after it separated? That first time, were you out there watching that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:93", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 20.80167282255743, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. And then, much later, the [Grumman] X-29."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you work on LLRV [Lunar Landing Research Vehicle?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was a very innovative thing, too, that came from the minds of Jake and Gene [J.] Matranga and Donald [R.] Bellman. Donald Bellman was my immediate supervisor. Great guy, great guy. He let [his team] do most anything we wanted to [as long as we completed the assigned duties, he encouraged playful/thoughtful innovation!] As long as we didn’t embarrass him, he turned us loose [to explore possibilities]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you remember the first ALT landing, after it separated? That first time, were you out there watching that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With everybody else? All the other thousands of people?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:95", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 20.890747580619365, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. That was a very innovative thing, too, that came from the minds of Jake and Gene [J.] Matranga and Donald [R.] Bellman. Donald Bellman was my immediate supervisor. Great guy, great guy. He let [his team] do most anything we wanted to [as long as we completed the assigned duties, he encouraged playful/thoughtful innovation!] As long as we didn’t embarrass him, he turned us loose [to explore possibilities]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did you remember the first ALT landing, after it separated? That first time, were you out there watching that?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With everybody else? All the other thousands of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. And by the way, our home in the desert, I told you about the place we bought for $10,000 over the phone, we could see the landings from home. That’s why I rode my bike to work. See, it was so close. It was only 8 ½ miles by road. If you went, as they say, as the crow flies, it was less than half that, maybe 3 miles. So you could see it very well. [So I could view the landings from work and my wife could see it from our front yard.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a treat, every time they landed. And it was an interesting time, because all of a sudden you had so much media attention that you weren’t used to. People at Johnson or at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] were used to that kind of attention, but you didn’t normally get that out here."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:97", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 11, "return_to_go": 23.21194175624374, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "With everybody else? All the other thousands of people?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Of course. And by the way, our home in the desert, I told you about the place we bought for $10,000 over the phone, we could see the landings from home. That’s why I rode my bike to work. See, it was so close. It was only 8 ½ miles by road. If you went, as they say, as the crow flies, it was less than half that, maybe 3 miles. So you could see it very well. [So I could view the landings from work and my wife could see it from our front yard.]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That was a treat, every time they landed. And it was an interesting time, because all of a sudden you had so much media attention that you weren’t used to. People at Johnson or at Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] were used to that kind of attention, but you didn’t normally get that out here."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, that’s what we were told."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You mentioned the pilots that you were friends with, but during that time, being test pilots, it was pretty dangerous work, and of course there were a lot of accidents and pilots were lost. How did that affect the work that was being done here or the feeling about the work, the danger?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:117", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 11.093877209999999, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a kick in the pants."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I think it’s interesting that your father insisted that you go to college, even though you’d had this long line of farmers in your heritage. Did you ever ask him why? Or do you know why he was so insistent?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I knew why. He wanted to be an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he wanted you to have that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a smart cookie. When I was a little kid, that would be like five, six years old, something like that, I remember he was working on what today we would call an inline skate. He was trying to invent an inline skate. I recall seeing the drawings of it. His skate—after all, he was just a farmer—but his skate didn’t have a whole row of [many] wheels, it had two wheels, and they were bigger, perhaps two and a half inches in diameter. The drawings, to me, looked quite detailed, but he didn’t know how to [approach the process of applying for a patent, and] didn’t have the money to get an attorney to help him with the patent, so he had to finally drop it. After all, he was busy being a farmer. [Dad’s older brother,] Uncle Elmer, had an invention patented while he was still 18 years old, a Mennonite farm kid. It was an improvement on a grain wagon design. I have a copy of that patent at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had engineering in your blood."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:119", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 8.9931969, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, I knew why. He wanted to be an engineer."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "So he wanted you to have that."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a smart cookie. When I was a little kid, that would be like five, six years old, something like that, I remember he was working on what today we would call an inline skate. He was trying to invent an inline skate. I recall seeing the drawings of it. His skate—after all, he was just a farmer—but his skate didn’t have a whole row of [many] wheels, it had two wheels, and they were bigger, perhaps two and a half inches in diameter. The drawings, to me, looked quite detailed, but he didn’t know how to [approach the process of applying for a patent, and] didn’t have the money to get an attorney to help him with the patent, so he had to finally drop it. After all, he was busy being a farmer. [Dad’s older brother,] Uncle Elmer, had an invention patented while he was still 18 years old, a Mennonite farm kid. It was an improvement on a grain wagon design. I have a copy of that patent at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had engineering in your blood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, [perhaps so?] Dad didn’t get to go to engineering school. I think he enrolled and couldn’t even attend, because his dad, my [other] grandfather called Dad home after he had gone to Iowa City, [not long after enrolling at the University, and said,] “Edwin, you got to come home and help me.” So Dad did. That’s back when you did what your dad told you to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like you went to school because he told you to."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:121", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 2, "return_to_go": 9.992441, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "He was a smart cookie. When I was a little kid, that would be like five, six years old, something like that, I remember he was working on what today we would call an inline skate. He was trying to invent an inline skate. I recall seeing the drawings of it. His skate—after all, he was just a farmer—but his skate didn’t have a whole row of [many] wheels, it had two wheels, and they were bigger, perhaps two and a half inches in diameter. The drawings, to me, looked quite detailed, but he didn’t know how to [approach the process of applying for a patent, and] didn’t have the money to get an attorney to help him with the patent, so he had to finally drop it. After all, he was busy being a farmer. [Dad’s older brother,] Uncle Elmer, had an invention patented while he was still 18 years old, a Mennonite farm kid. It was an improvement on a grain wagon design. I have a copy of that patent at home."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You had engineering in your blood."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don’t know, [perhaps so?] Dad didn’t get to go to engineering school. I think he enrolled and couldn’t even attend, because his dad, my [other] grandfather called Dad home after he had gone to Iowa City, [not long after enrolling at the University, and said,] “Edwin, you got to come home and help me.” So Dad did. That’s back when you did what your dad told you to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Just like you went to school because he told you to."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, looking back over your time with the NACA and with NASA, also, is there anything that you’d point out that you’re most proud of, or something that you consider your best achievement?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:134", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 1.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "[Yes, but] it took much less to get the front end of the trucks nicely rounded. We published our first big truck with the nice rounded front in ’77, and I think Peterbilt and Kenworth and Freightliner and Volvo and International began making nicely rounded front ends about 1981 or ’82, so that was more like four, five years. That was fairly quick, but that was so obvious, and the reason they would’ve done it is because they look for new designs anyway every so often, perhaps every 5 years. [I suspect it was the oil crisis plus common sense that caused the truck builders to make the “front end” change.] These side skirts are add-ons, after manufacture type thing, [and that idea was picked up by smaller manufacturers. For them it would seem like quite a risk to gear up for production. In addition, I suspect these small concerns spent a long time coming up with a design and then testing it.]."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you’d like to mention before we go for the day?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve probably talked too much already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it’s all good information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s probably about it, I guess. I’ve had so much fun. You can tell that, can’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think we can. We can tell you really enjoyed your career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00983:136", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I’ve probably talked too much already."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "No, it’s all good information."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s probably about it, I guess. I’ve had so much fun. You can tell that, can’t you?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Yes, I think we can. We can tell you really enjoyed your career."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I was so blessed for so many years. I wouldn’t change a thing."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sounds like it was a wonderful career."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00038:35", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 9, "return_to_go": 27.389149192937616, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, it was good. The only regrets I have are financial. If I'd made the switch earlier, I would have been smarter financially. But that's the only regret. And now that I'm aware of that, I would say it's a regret, every now and then I do say because the stock market has been so good those past three years, that had you started earlier to be a civilian, you would have been better off financially.\\n\\n But as far as do I have any regrets? No. I thought it was an experience that I'll always remember. I think the seven people who did that experience know that. I don't think other people realize what they did or that the experience was really different from a Shuttle flight, because I didn't think it was either, remember. But I [now] knew that it was, and they don't. So it's something I wouldn't have known had I not done it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Each of you had a different mission, but as you mentioned, just seven people have done this. Are there certain characteristics that you feel are necessary to be able to do these missions?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know the answer to that. I honestly don't know the answer to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Because everyone of you are so different?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes. I don't know the answer to that."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you think being a pilot helped you?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00038:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 13.62493521, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "She got a vacation, and she got to go do a whole lot of things I guess she's been wanting to do."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Did either one of you have a hesitation or a fear about you being on the Mir at that time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No. No, and if she were here she'd tell you the same thing. She'd tell you the same thing. As far as that goes--I just didn't like--I didn't realize until we had had this separation, oh, three, four weeks into the Mir flight is when I went, \"Hmm. Wish I could beam down to the planet for the weekend.\" [Laughter] And I'd think that every Friday night. \"I wish I could beam down to the planet for the weekend.\""}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "You've had a life as a military pilot, astronaut, now you're an executive in research with this company [USAA]. Would you classify yourself as a space explorer as well, since you were on the Mir? How do you classify that time in your life?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know right now. I don't know. I don't know the answer to your question. I was going to say something else, but it's not related to your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can say that anyway."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00038:51", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 10.154241, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I don't know. I don't know right now. I don't know. I don't know the answer to your question. I was going to say something else, but it's not related to your question."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you can say that anyway."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Okay. Well, it's a different thing. It's okay, isn't it?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've realized, and this is something I didn't really know, but a lot of retired astronauts I know know it and they're involved in it, and I guess I'm learning it. I'm very involved in a community project now here in San Antonio. They made me the chairman of a board to bring a Challenger Learning Center to San Antonio. I started that in August. Lean over there and see our plan that we put together, and our fundraising process we're about ready to kick off. So I'm spending a lot of time right now on that particular community effort down here in San Antonio.\\n\\n I've just started an involvement for the National Research Council. They're doing an independent assessment of the International Space Station. I'm now a member of that committee. So that's kind of interesting. So I still feel like my hand is in the Space Station and in space.\\n\\n About once a week I have either a luncheon or a dinner or speech somewhere here in San Antonio, or I visit an elementary school and put my flight suit on and talk to those kids. So I feel like I'm still in the space program. So it isn't that I've left it."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "It sounds like you're making an investment for that if you're talking to the school children, you want them to understand what you feel about it as well."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00769:29", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 12, "return_to_go": 32.05980722434547, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've seen dockings of Russian vehicles. I was there when a Soyuz docking occurred. But I've not been there for any of the Shuttle dockings. I was always here in Houston for all those. There's a scattering of flight directors who have been there, certainly. We started off with flight directors. Then we started sending some other people out of Mission Operations Directorate, two of whom later became flight directors after they were chosen to go up to this job. So I guess you could say, retroactively, we sent a flight director. But I've never been one of them. I've always been here.\\n\\n Phil Engelauf and I, I think, are the only two that have never been to Moscow during a docking. Both of us have always been here for all the docking missions. I think both of us have been to Moscow probably seven, I think I'm up to seven or eight times.\\n\\n Again, Moscow, itself, has changed so much. I talked about my very first trip there. My last trip there we were wandering the city on Metro pretty much at will."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We noticed your Metro map [displayed on the office wall]."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a map of Metro. We were going to restaurants and bars, generally in two and threes. Generally you don't go out alone. I actually felt safer in Moscow than I would in downtown Houston at night alone, as an example. We know a lot more people there now. There are a lot more Americans, a lot bigger infrastructure, as well. There are a lot more places to eat. The overall economy over there, I think, just from the surface, seems better. Every time I fly into the airport I see more signs in English. I see more things being advertised. I see more stuff in stores. So it's not the same place at all. It's not at all the same as it was when I first there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In just a short amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a short amount of time, five years or so. The ruble has changed by a factor of twenty or so since I first went there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there when you stayed? Did it vary?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00769:31", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 5, "return_to_go": 22.288674693717187, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, a map of Metro. We were going to restaurants and bars, generally in two and threes. Generally you don't go out alone. I actually felt safer in Moscow than I would in downtown Houston at night alone, as an example. We know a lot more people there now. There are a lot more Americans, a lot bigger infrastructure, as well. There are a lot more places to eat. The overall economy over there, I think, just from the surface, seems better. Every time I fly into the airport I see more signs in English. I see more things being advertised. I see more stuff in stores. So it's not the same place at all. It's not at all the same as it was when I first there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "In just a short amount of time."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Just a short amount of time, five years or so. The ruble has changed by a factor of twenty or so since I first went there."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How long were you there when you stayed? Did it vary?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "It varied. Typically it was about ten days. Then this past February and March, I was there for a month. We started doing a little longer rotations, where we actually put flight directors over there for a month at a time. Mark Krishish [phonetic] went for the first one in January. I went in February. Mark Farring [phonetic] went after I did. Then Bill Reeves was the last one. Right now John Curry's in Moscow, another retroactive flight director. He was there for a different job, now he's a flight director. So he at least has the title right now. We're going to keep people there for probably several more months. John's coming back, I think, in the next week or so."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "How was it from just staying a few days to a month?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00769:39", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 20.177830656481, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "You make it home. That's the transition you have. I enjoyed Moscow. Moscow's a nice place to visit. It's a fascinating city. There's an enormous amount of culture in Moscow. There's a lot of things to do. It's only problem is, it's not here. Friends and family are still here. And, okay, you make new friends, but you still have more friends here than you do in Moscow and you still have all your family here, of course."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there winter and summer?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I've not been there in the real heat of the summer. I have been there in the dead of the winter, twice. I've been there in spring and fall, when it was moderately cold. I have not been there in some of the 90-degree days that they had. Last week they had some really scorcher days. Except unlike Houston, Moscow doesn't have any air-conditioning, so it really gets kind of miserable, but it doesn't last very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That's the good news."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Miserable while it happens."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, your new duties, or maybe I should say your current duties, will take you into the International Space Station, Phase Two. You feel your experience with Shuttle-Mir and Phase One Program has been beneficial to lead you into that?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00769:58", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.7290000000000001, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, Victor's got a deputy, a recently assigned deputy, about a year and a half ago, Alexander Kotov [phonetic]. Before that, his deputy was the cosmonaut Sergei Krikalev. Sergei, I think, is clearly being groomed. He's a very, very smart man. I expect him to take either Blagov's place or Soloviev's place, quite frankly. Wouldn't be surprised to see that happen. So they're grooming people. They also just hired a whole bunch of new people to help support the Mir Program and the Station Program. That's been one of my major worries. I see them grooming someone to replace Victor or Vladimir. I didn't see that they were grooming anyone to replace the replacements. So is there a pipeline of people here or not? But I think there are a couple of people being groomed, yes, to take some of these top jobs."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "They're not five years younger than the guy who's getting ready to retire? [Laughter]"}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but they're probably--I'd have to look it up--Kotov's in his forties. Victor is sixty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I figured they're not young men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're not twenty-year-olds. But Kotov's got another ten or fifteen years, certainly, in front of him. And Victor's sixty-two. Now, how long Victor keep going, I don't know. He appears to be in excellent health, and I suspect he will keep going quite a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We met with some of the Russians in Florida, so that's why we know something about it. That's why I sort of light up when you talk about these--"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00769:60", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.81, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, but they're probably--I'd have to look it up--Kotov's in his forties. Victor is sixty-two."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I figured they're not young men."}, {"role": "user", "content": "No, they're not twenty-year-olds. But Kotov's got another ten or fifteen years, certainly, in front of him. And Victor's sixty-two. Now, how long Victor keep going, I don't know. He appears to be in excellent health, and I suspect he will keep going quite a while."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We met with some of the Russians in Florida, so that's why we know something about it. That's why I sort of light up when you talk about these--"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Well, Blagov was there for the launch, because he came up here after the launch."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "We did get to meet him and did interview him. He had wonderful things to say about the American flight directors. So we'll have to share that with you at another time, when you've got more time."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00682:30", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 1, "return_to_go": 24.3210708181, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Ask away. None of this is scripted, so I’m winging it here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "A lot of really interesting insights from your experience. You talked about those four guiding concepts you put in the original COTS Announcement: 1) intellectual property, 2) not so much government supervision, 3) long contract runway, 4) no equity. Did you also work on the [COTS Round 2] Announcement when some of the remaining funding from RpK was eventually awarded to Orbital?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any adjustments that you made to that Announcement based on things you may have learned from that first round?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. Nothing really jumps out. I really think it was just an opportunity for the COTS team to reinforce the four guiding concepts that we’d previously written down. And when RpK didn’t work out —we had to use the planned off ramp. This happens in Silicon Valley all the time. You fund three things and one of them doesn’t work. You need to be able to pull that funding. People can’t be shocked by that. You need to put the money into a company that is working.\\n\\n It was a reinforcement for the COTS team that oh, this wasn’t just a theoretical situation. That things sometimes fail. It was real, it failed. We had the provision in place to go out and reallocate that money to a different company. We lost nine months or so because we had to go through the re-selection process, but I don’t remember that second contract as being that difficult or that much of a change. It was basically just a reinforcement of the four guiding concepts we had the first time around. Again, it’s been six years so my memory may not be perfect. I’m happy to have Alan or Valin or Mike or Dennis correct me if I’m remembering wrongly, but that’s what I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, because in The Innovator’s Dilemma he talks about having to be willing to accept risk. Invest small amounts, but then have reserves to contribute to the more successful ventures."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00682:32", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 4, "return_to_go": 25.912300909, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "I did."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Were there any adjustments that you made to that Announcement based on things you may have learned from that first round?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s a good question. Nothing really jumps out. I really think it was just an opportunity for the COTS team to reinforce the four guiding concepts that we’d previously written down. And when RpK didn’t work out —we had to use the planned off ramp. This happens in Silicon Valley all the time. You fund three things and one of them doesn’t work. You need to be able to pull that funding. People can’t be shocked by that. You need to put the money into a company that is working.\\n\\n It was a reinforcement for the COTS team that oh, this wasn’t just a theoretical situation. That things sometimes fail. It was real, it failed. We had the provision in place to go out and reallocate that money to a different company. We lost nine months or so because we had to go through the re-selection process, but I don’t remember that second contract as being that difficult or that much of a change. It was basically just a reinforcement of the four guiding concepts we had the first time around. Again, it’s been six years so my memory may not be perfect. I’m happy to have Alan or Valin or Mike or Dennis correct me if I’m remembering wrongly, but that’s what I recall."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s interesting, because in The Innovator’s Dilemma he talks about having to be willing to accept risk. Invest small amounts, but then have reserves to contribute to the more successful ventures."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Actually I’ve seen Clayton a couple times, but I’ve never told him this story. He was also a White House Fellow. I think he would enjoy hearing how his book was used in a very effective way."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Going back to the question of markets, one of the other things Clayton said was that disruptive technology markets are not only unknown, but unknowable. I’m curious to know more specifically what types of markets have opened up, even some that maybe the companies had no idea others were looking for these types of services."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00138:65", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 59.777647399216576, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That was a hint. So I showed up. So it was not unusual to get these calls about what time the team was going to meet, and so the day that they made the announcements, I get a message from Mr. Abbey, and I called back, not knowing which way it’s going to go, and he said, “How would you like to move your office down the hall?”\\n\\n I knew immediately what that meant, and I said, “Yes, sir, that sounds like a good move.” And that’s how I found out."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "When you told your family, what was their reaction?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very excited. Very excited. My parents have been supportive of everything I’ve done. They were supportive of all of us. They just wanted us to turn out to be good citizens, to do the best job we could, and be productive. So the fact that I was able to do something I wanted to do was exciting to them. They’ve always been supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sort of interest in your small Washington town over the fact that you were selected as an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes. There was a lot of press interest, but I didn’t really go back there in any kind of official capacity until after my first flight, and then I got to lead a parade. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty big."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00138:67", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 3, "return_to_go": 66.41960822135175, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Very excited. Very excited. My parents have been supportive of everything I’ve done. They were supportive of all of us. They just wanted us to turn out to be good citizens, to do the best job we could, and be productive. So the fact that I was able to do something I wanted to do was exciting to them. They’ve always been supportive."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was there any sort of interest in your small Washington town over the fact that you were selected as an astronaut?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh yes. Oh yes. There was a lot of press interest, but I didn’t really go back there in any kind of official capacity until after my first flight, and then I got to lead a parade. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "That’s pretty big."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It’s a small town, you know, so it’s one street up and one street down. It didn’t take very long."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Can you tell us a little bit about the training that you underwent during your AsCan [Astronaut Candidate] days?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00138:103", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "It was very high, but not for always the right reasons. [Laughs] We always try to promote the research we do in space, but press in any country, depending on how articulate they are, don’t always understand that aspect of it, so they then focus on the other sides, the personal part of it, and of course, the personalities of the German crew members were very much in the news and so forth. I’ll never forget my first crew press conference, and probably some of those crew members remember it as well. I had an interviewer, a reporter in [West] Germany, ask me what I thought of Dallas, and I said, “Well, you know, I’ve only visited once or twice, but I hear it’s a pretty city.” Well, I did not know that the most popular show in [West] Germany in 1984 was Dallas with what’s-his-name, T. J., whatever."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "I just remember J. R. Ewing."}, {"role": "user", "content": "J. R. Ewing. So he looks at me. He says, “No, no, I mean the TV show.”\\n\\n And I said, “I’ve never seen it.” And he couldn’t believe that, coming from America, I had never watched Dallas with J. R. Ewing. But, you know, I was busy. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Busy traveling all over Europe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m wondering, would you like to talk a little bit about the mission, or should we wait to talk about the mission till next time?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00138:105", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "J. R. Ewing. So he looks at me. He says, “No, no, I mean the TV show.”\\n\\n And I said, “I’ve never seen it.” And he couldn’t believe that, coming from America, I had never watched Dallas with J. R. Ewing. But, you know, I was busy. [Laughs]"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Busy traveling all over Europe."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, I’m wondering, would you like to talk a little bit about the mission, or should we wait to talk about the mission till next time?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Why don’t we go ahead and wait, just because my voice is getting a little—"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Sure. Sure. Well, thank you for coming by today."}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00554:15", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 22.943529918844202, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, there was a Test Division that tested hardware, and there was an Operations Group that did all the planning; where do we need the ships, how many ships, what kind of support do you need here, make arrangements for the helicopters and the aircraft and that sort of thing. That was a branch in itself.\\n\\n My branch, that I was in the whole time I was in Landing and Recovery, had kind of bits and pieces of Hardware and bits and pieces of the Operations, and, because we were probably, in most cases, the youngest guys, we got the ship duty more than other people. So it was an organization of Systems, Operations, and Test, and then there was one Training Branch that their responsibilities was to take all this information and turn it into manuals that you could hand to a Navy guy that was going to handle the spacecraft on board the ship, and say, “Here’s the things you need to know to stay safe.” So that’s kind of how we were organized.\\n\\n The Division Chief at that time was Jerry [Jerome B.] Hammack. Jerry—interesting, interesting history. He’s one of the people that had his name on the patent for both the Mercury and Gemini spacecraft, and Jerry was a very interesting man to know. The reason I kind of singled him out, he and I have crossed paths over the years multiple times. He’s in his eighties today, and he taught me a lot of things when I came to work for NASA, and I’m teaching him to fly model airplanes now, so it’s kind of an interesting cycle of life here."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Get to teach the teacher."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the ADDRS, the drift recovery system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aircraft Deployed Drift Reduction System."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reduction System—as one of the pieces of hardware that you worked on. Were there other types of hardware that you can recall that you’d like to share some information about?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00554:17", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 25.492811020938003, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "That’s right."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, you mentioned the ADDRS, the drift recovery system."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Aircraft Deployed Drift Reduction System."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Reduction System—as one of the pieces of hardware that you worked on. Were there other types of hardware that you can recall that you’d like to share some information about?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "On the hardware I actually worked on, that grapple fixture that went with the ADDRS, and then the parachute system and the line system, all of that together is an integrated system I worked on. But, there were even some less glamorous things, like the sewer system on the Mobile Quarantine Facility. How do you drain the travel trailer tanks and protect the outside environment? We designed a set of holding tanks that had very specialized filters on it. We could pump the waste out of the trailer into these holding tanks, and then we shipped the whole thing, these holding tanks, back to Houston. They stayed in quarantine with the trailer until everything was released, and then they were dumped just like you would dump a travel trailer at a station.\\n\\n So I worked on those. I worked on the power system for the Mobile Quarantine Facility, integrating the diesel generators into the electrical system of the trailer, and then doing the integration of the other transformer devices that took these different voltages. So I worked on that. What other hardware? That was principally the hardware that I actually had a design hand in. A lot of little things associated with the trailer that once we took delivery of it, it didn’t work exactly like it ought to work, and so we did a lot of interim design and fix on the trailers before we ever used them on Apollo 11 and 12."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Was that done on site, those changes?"}]}
{"block_id": "jsc-oral-history-00554:47", "domain": "oral_history", "factual_novelty_score": 0, "return_to_go": 0.0, "messages": [{"role": "system", "content": "Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history."}, {"role": "user", "content": "When I first moved here, I had a cousin who lived here in Houston. He lived about at Broadway [Street], I guess. I stayed with he and his wife for a week or so, trying to figure out where I wanted to live. I got down here a week before I was supposed to report. Naïvely, I drove around where my cousin said all the nice apartments were, and there was one that says “ten minutes from NASA,” and it was really a cool-looking apartment complex. It was right at the end of Park Place on Texas [Highway] 3. If you’re familiar with the area, that’s about fourteen miles or thirteen miles up the road, and you could might be able to make it to NASA in ten minutes at a hundred miles an hour.\\n\\n But, I believed them. I didn’t drive out there. So the first day I said, “Well, I’m going to give myself a little extra time,” and I left thirty minutes early, because I was supposed to be at Ellington. That’s where the administrative offices were was at Ellington Air Force Base, and that’s where you checked in and got your badge and all of that stuff. Well, I’m sure glad I left thirty minutes early, because I just barely made it to my check-in time.\\n\\n I lived in that apartment complex for six months, and then I moved to the Balboa [apartment complex] in Nassau Bay [Texas]. Then I eventually bought a house in Clear Lake City [Texas] after I got married, in ’71, I guess."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Well, we’ve been going for a couple of hours."}, {"role": "user", "content": "Oh, have we?"}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Do you want to break for today?"}, {"role": "user", "content": "Yes, I probably ought to."}, {"role": "assistant", "content": "Okay. We can pick up there and talk a little bit more about those early days and the other missions that you worked on."}]}