[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, never. The first trip we ever made sort of as a family, in two cars at that time, but it just so happened my sister had married someone with a car, so we had two cars available. My mother and father were sort of like pioneers in Miami Beach. And there was very little development at that time, although a lot was going on, new hotels, etcetera. You know, it was like the beginning of the boom in South Florida. And um, so I was born in 1938, the youngest of 10. By the time I was three or four, my oldest brother went into the Navy, so there were only nine of us. But we lived in a three-bedroom house, one bath, for 11 people, basically. And 12 sometimes. Most our entertainment was mostly neighborhood and people we went to school with. They'd come to our house, you know? And we did very little traveling. Once in a while, my mother would pile some of us into a car and go out and see where the newest development was going on.

[Assistant] Ah yes, but that was pretty local.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it.

[Assistant] And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And he went to Loyola right here in New Orleans before you. Were you the only two of the ten?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. So it was very, uh, I was only. The only trip I ever made was to my brother's wedding in Louisville, Kentucky, when I was a freshman in high school. And that was it.

[Assistant] And you had, um, certainly you mentioned one brother who had gone to college.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And he went to Loyola right here in New Orleans before you. Were you the only two of the ten?

[User] No, we had. Out of the ten that were, I think, five of us who got college degrees. My brother Bill was here at Loyola. My brother Jack went to the University of Florida and was a judge, subsequently went to Loyola Law School and then returned to Florida and was a judge in Florida. My brother Joe graduated from the University of Miami. He was my oldest brother. And my sister Rita was graduated from Barry College in Miami, and she was a teacher all her life.

[Assistant] So that's really quite remarkable. Five out of 10 graduating from college. So from this, I would assume that your parents saw the value of education and were encouraging.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we had. Out of the ten that were, I think, five of us who got college degrees. My brother Bill was here at Loyola. My brother Jack went to the University of Florida and was a judge, subsequently went to Loyola Law School and then returned to Florida and was a judge in Florida. My brother Joe graduated from the University of Miami. He was my oldest brother. And my sister Rita was graduated from Barry College in Miami, and she was a teacher all her life.

[Assistant] So that's really quite remarkable. Five out of 10 graduating from college. So from this, I would assume that your parents saw the value of education and were encouraging.

[User] Yes, they were. We were Roman Catholic. We went to Roman Catholic school, grade school and high school.

[Assistant] And college.

[User] Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college.

[Assistant] They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were. We were Roman Catholic. We went to Roman Catholic school, grade school and high school.

[Assistant] And college.

[User] Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college.

[Assistant] They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?

[User] Saint Patrick's, right.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and college eventually. And we, you know, education was very important. My mother had an eighth grade education. My father had a high school, was a high school graduate, but had one year of college. He was construction, in the construction business. So it was upward bound sort of, you know, family. You know, we were, uh, I think my parents were very happy that we were doing well in school and so that we could go to college.

[Assistant] They valued that. Yeah, that's great. So then you go to high school locally. Was it Catholic high school in Miami Beach?

[User] Saint Patrick's, right.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?

[User] Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Saint Patrick's, right.

[Assistant] Uh huh. And what did you do when you were in high school? What sort of extracurricular activities?

[User] Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?

[User] We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it.

[Assistant] Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I played football and basketball and I was in choral and I, uh, I did all the things that were in at the time. And we, you know, we had a very nice high school. It was sort of an advanced type school. Uh, I would say probably a college prep type school, run by Dominican nuns from Adrian, Michigan, and very, very, um, on the line of college prep.

[Assistant] Yes, yes. And I'm assuming that you had some kind of foreign language?

[User] We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it.

[Assistant] Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had Spanish. I had Spanish in high school and in college. But that didn't help me too much until I got to Colombia, when I learned it. I had to learn it.

[Assistant] Yeah, but at least you had had some introduction.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?

[User] No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] The structure of the language starting back in high school. And so then you went on to college. And did you say you had a degree in chemistry?

[User] No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. OK.

[User] I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course.

[Assistant] So you were a history major?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I had a degree in history and it was required, um, two sciences were required and my last course was chemistry.

[Assistant] Oh, I see. OK.

[User] I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course.

[Assistant] So you were a history major?

[User] Yes, history major.

[Assistant] And you continued studying Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had to actually go an extra semester because I thought I had everything put together, and then I realized I had to do one more course.

[Assistant] So you were a history major?

[User] Yes, history major.

[Assistant] And you continued studying Spanish.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, history major.

[Assistant] And you continued studying Spanish.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?

[User] No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students.

[Assistant] So this is late '50s, very early '60s?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And was there a particular kind of history that you were focusing on, American?

[User] No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students.

[Assistant] So this is late '50s, very early '60s?

[User] Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So what you were involved in civil rights.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was just a general history course. I was very much into sociology as well. That was my minor. And I think that the Jesuits had an emphasis on, Jesuits run Loyola, and they had an emphasis on community involvement and service work, you know. And I was part of the revolution that was going on with, for getting blacks the rights. I marched in parades with other Loyola students.

[Assistant] So this is late '50s, very early '60s?

[User] Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So what you were involved in civil rights.

[User] Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there.

[Assistant] OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right before I went to the Peace Corps. The year before I went the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So what you were involved in civil rights.

[User] Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there.

[Assistant] OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form.

[User] So we went to the, you know, the longshoremen's place, meeting place. And the people would come to us and we would teach them what they expected you to do on that form.

[Assistant] That's right. They couldn't come in with a pre-filled form.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we were involved in civil rights. We went into a program where we were trained how to teach elderly black people to fill out the forms that were necessary for registration to vote. And it was very discriminatory. It was very discriminating. Even I had problems with the form when I first went to, but they helped me. They would not help black people in that group, at the counter, they had to know how to fill out the form when they got there.

[Assistant] OK, so you taught people how to fill out the form.

[User] So we went to the, you know, the longshoremen's place, meeting place. And the people would come to us and we would teach them what they expected you to do on that form.

[Assistant] That's right. They couldn't come in with a pre-filled form.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] But they had to know what to do once they handed it to them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] So I was very much. There was a famous sociologist who was on Loyola's faculty, Joseph Victor SJ, and he really pushed us to try to get involved in that movement, in the rights movement, you know.

[Assistant] So important.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was very much. There was a famous sociologist who was on Loyola's faculty, Joseph Victor SJ, and he really pushed us to try to get involved in that movement, in the rights movement, you know.

[Assistant] So important.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?

[User] During the academic year, because that's when the elections were being held, you know, the primaries.

[Assistant] Oh yes, of course. That's right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And did you do that in the summer, during the academic year or in the summertime?

[User] During the academic year, because that's when the elections were being held, you know, the primaries.

[Assistant] Oh yes, of course. That's right.

[User] So it was leading up to the election of JFK.

[Assistant] That's right. So you wanted to get all those voters registered. And then what did you do in the summers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was leading up to the election of JFK.

[Assistant] That's right. So you wanted to get all those voters registered. And then what did you do in the summers?

[User] In the summer, I worked at various jobs. I waited on tables. I bused tables. I was a cocktail waiter in a famous bar that a lot of Loyola students hung out at. And I also worked for WDSU TV as a switchboard operator, and I worked with J. Aron Company. They were importers of coffee and sugar. And I was a microfilm operator.

[Assistant] Oh, wow.

[User] So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity.

[Assistant] Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the summer, I worked at various jobs. I waited on tables. I bused tables. I was a cocktail waiter in a famous bar that a lot of Loyola students hung out at. And I also worked for WDSU TV as a switchboard operator, and I worked with J. Aron Company. They were importers of coffee and sugar. And I was a microfilm operator.

[Assistant] Oh, wow.

[User] So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity.

[Assistant] Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years.

[User] Yeah, now it's completely useless. I don't think they have microfilm.

[Assistant] Um, so let's see. Was the draft a factor then, back in '62?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I microfilmed all their documents for longevity.

[Assistant] Yes, it was a skill that remained useful for a few years.

[User] Yeah, now it's completely useless. I don't think they have microfilm.

[Assistant] Um, so let's see. Was the draft a factor then, back in '62?

[User] It was. At Loyola there was a requirement that you took ROTC for two years.

[Assistant] No kidding. It was a requirement?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was. At Loyola there was a requirement that you took ROTC for two years.

[Assistant] No kidding. It was a requirement?

[User] Yeah, it was self-designed, you know, by the Jesuits. But um, I didn't. I didn't stay in it. And so I was eligible for draft. But you were given a dispensation or what they call it if you?

[Assistant] A deferment.

[User] Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft.

[Assistant] And they looked at your knees?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was self-designed, you know, by the Jesuits. But um, I didn't. I didn't stay in it. And so I was eligible for draft. But you were given a dispensation or what they call it if you?

[Assistant] A deferment.

[User] Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft.

[Assistant] And they looked at your knees?

[User] They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem.

[Assistant] The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, until you got out. But in high school, I played high school football and I got my both knees split cartilages. And when I came out of the Peace Corps, a week after I got home, I was, uh, I got notice to show up for the draft.

[Assistant] And they looked at your knees?

[User] They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem.

[Assistant] The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard.

[User] That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems.

[Assistant] Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They had a doctor and they looked at my knees and I was 4F. So I did a lot of mountain climbing in Colombia and it never bothered me. But they were concerned that it would be a problem.

[Assistant] The first physical benefit of high school football that I have, of college football, that I've ever heard.

[User] That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems.

[Assistant] Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam.

[User] Right, that was the big thing.

[Assistant] So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. Exactly. And now I'm paying for it because my knees are giving me very bad problems.

[Assistant] Sorry, but you didn't have to go to Vietnam.

[User] Right, that was the big thing.

[Assistant] So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were.

[User] Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application.

[Assistant] On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, that was the big thing.

[Assistant] So how did you become aware of the Peace Corps? You were.

[User] Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application.

[Assistant] On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?

[User] I don't remember. I don't remember.

[Assistant] OK. So you didn't request Latin America?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was a big fan of JFK and we had a group of us who were talking about things like, um, Tom Dooley was in Laos working. He was a doctor and he did, he sort of suspended his practice and spent several years in Laos helping the poor. And we thought that might be a possibility to do after college, you know? And then the Peace Corps came along and I, you know, took the test and made the application.

[Assistant] On your application, did they ask you a question that was something like, do you have a particular part of the world that you would like to go to especially? Or did they ask you, is there any place you would not be willing to go?

[User] I don't remember. I don't remember.

[Assistant] OK. So you didn't request Latin America?

[User] No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember. I don't remember.

[Assistant] OK. So you didn't request Latin America?

[User] No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?

[User] I did not know anybody that had even taken the test.

[Assistant] And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. But I guess because I had Spanish, you know, two years of Spanish in college as well as two years in high school. I figured that was part of that.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. And so did you know, did you have friends who joined the Peace Corps? Did you do it together with some buddies?

[User] I did not know anybody that had even taken the test.

[Assistant] And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there.

[User] Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because.

[Assistant] Pilot a plane.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did not know anybody that had even taken the test.

[Assistant] And of course, in '62, you couldn't possibly have known anybody who has already come back because they were just first, still over there.

[User] Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because.

[Assistant] Pilot a plane.

[User] Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah. I had actually, the Navy was recruiting one time at Loyola in my last year, and I, my brother, one of my older brothers was a Navy Air Cadet. I mean, he flew airplanes for the Navy. And so I thought that would be a great thing as an alternative if I don't get the Peace Corps. And they picked me up one Saturday morning and drove me over across the river to Algiers, to the Navy base. And the first thing they did was give me an eye test and I was red green colorblind, and they put me back in the car and took me back home because that was one thing you couldn't be, you couldn't do because.

[Assistant] Pilot a plane.

[User] Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, pilot the plane. So, yeah, it was very interesting that that was the development. And then the last day I took my final exam, I got the invitation for the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So at that time, you were not married. You were single guy right out of college.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?

[User] It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained.

[Assistant] And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] History major. So your invitation came the day you took your final exam of your last course. And then how much time before you had to show up for training?

[User] It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained.

[Assistant] And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?

[User] Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale.

[Assistant] And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It wasn't much because I finished my last course in January and February 2nd, I believe, was the day I was supposed to be in Arizona at Arizona State University is where we trained.

[Assistant] And that's what, Scotts, it's outside of Phoenix?

[User] Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale.

[Assistant] And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] So that seems to be pretty good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right outside of Phoenix, yeah, in Scottsdale. Right near Scottsdale.

[Assistant] And so you just had to drop everything and go, but you were at an ending point of something anyway.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] So that seems to be pretty good.

[User] It solved a lot of problems.

[Assistant]
And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?

No, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.

Okay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] So that seems to be pretty good.

[User] It solved a lot of problems.

[Assistant]
And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?

No, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.

Okay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It solved a lot of problems.

[Assistant]
And did you know at that point right away that it would you'd be training for Colombia? Or was it some unknown country?

No, I think the telegram did include, you know, invited to training for program in Colombia for rural community development.

Okay. So you knew which country it would be right from the beginning. And of course, you had to share this invitation with your family.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?

[User] Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea.

[Assistant] Was he the one who was in the Navy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] You were here in New Orleans and you received it, but you had to get the word to your family in Florida. So did you go home to tell them or did you call them on the phone or how? What was that like with your family?

[User] Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea.

[Assistant] Was he the one who was in the Navy?

[User] No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them.

[Assistant] So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that was interesting because I was very excited. I had two brothers here at the time. They were both in law school at the time. And this was very much very exciting, you know, that I got invited to go. And for them as well. And so I called up the family and told them down in Miami, and they thought it was great. My mother, you know, said, I wish I could go, you know, after having 10 kids. So yeah, so they were very positive about it. I have an older brother that was always a Republican, and he didn't think it was such a great idea.

[Assistant] Was he the one who was in the Navy?

[User] No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them.

[Assistant] So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on.

[User] We still have an argument once in a while.

[Assistant] And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, he was, he lived in Miami. Oh, he worked for McCormick Spice Company. He was a representative for them.

[Assistant] So one brother wasn't so supportive but other people were cheering you on.

[User] We still have an argument once in a while.

[Assistant] And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?

[User] Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it.

[Assistant] And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We still have an argument once in a while.

[Assistant] And so you go up to, you get yourself somehow from. You must have gone home, right?

[User] Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it.

[Assistant] And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?

[User] Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place.

[Assistant] Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I went home to, you know, bring my, a lot of stuff from here to my home in Miami. And then from there I went to, um, Tempe, Arizona, is the name of it.

[Assistant] And did Peace Corps fly you there, from Miami to Tempe?

[User] Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place.

[Assistant] Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?

[User] No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college.

[Assistant] That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and we changed planes in Atlanta. And one of the people on the seat next to me was Peace Corps volunteer, was going the same place.

[Assistant] Same place. And was that your first time ever in an airplane?

[User] No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college.

[Assistant] That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia.

[User] One group was in Colombia.

[Assistant] So you were Colombia II.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I had to flown. My sister worked for National Airlines at the time, and they flew between New Orleans and Miami, so I would get free passage once in a while, standby. Yeah, in college.

[Assistant] That's cool. OK. So you're on your way to training in at the university, at Arizona State. And you know you're going to Colombia. But I'm thinking in 1962, you were not the very first group. There were others already in Colombia.

[User] One group was in Colombia.

[Assistant] So you were Colombia II.

[User] We were in Colombia II.

[Assistant] Do you remember first reporting to training? You had somebody with you that you had met on the plane. And then what was that like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were in Colombia II.

[Assistant] Do you remember first reporting to training? You had somebody with you that you had met on the plane. And then what was that like?

[User] And it turned out there were a number of us. There were a number of us on the plane or on another plane at the same time because they had a van that they picked us up in at the airport and they had, you know, signs where to go and all that. And so there were about 35 or 40 guys who were invited for training.

[Assistant] All men?

[User] Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time.

[Assistant] And so they took you to a dorm?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it turned out there were a number of us. There were a number of us on the plane or on another plane at the same time because they had a van that they picked us up in at the airport and they had, you know, signs where to go and all that. And so there were about 35 or 40 guys who were invited for training.

[Assistant] All men?

[User] Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time.

[Assistant] And so they took you to a dorm?

[User] Yeah, they took us to a dorm. And, uh, it was a very interesting training program. I don't think they really knew what they were doing.

[Assistant] That was so new.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, right. So we all were arriving about the same time.

[Assistant] And so they took you to a dorm?

[User] Yeah, they took us to a dorm. And, uh, it was a very interesting training program. I don't think they really knew what they were doing.

[Assistant] That was so new.

[User] Right. They had done the same type of training with the first group, first group trained in Colombia, first troupe or group trained in, uh, Colombia, the famous school in. What in the world is the neighborhood? Outside of New York.

[Assistant] Outside of New York?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. They had done the same type of training with the first group, first group trained in Colombia, first troupe or group trained in, uh, Colombia, the famous school in. What in the world is the neighborhood? Outside of New York.

[Assistant] Outside of New York?

[User] Just outside of New York.

[Assistant] Cornell?

[User] Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?

[Assistant] Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just outside of New York.

[Assistant] Cornell?

[User] Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?

[Assistant] Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?

[User] New Jersey. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that was where Colombia I went. It's interesting that they didn't send you right back there, because people already had gone through it once. But so what was it like? Did they give you a rigorous physical Outward Bound?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh no, it wasn't Cornell, that's north. This is south. Where they had the Super Bowl?

[Assistant] Oh, New Jersey, some place in New Jersey?

[User] New Jersey. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that was where Colombia I went. It's interesting that they didn't send you right back there, because people already had gone through it once. But so what was it like? Did they give you a rigorous physical Outward Bound?

[User] Yes, very rigorous physical training. The first, one of the first things we did was we went, after the first day or two, we went to an Indian reservation and lived on an Indian reservation for about five days I would say. I don't think it was a full week, but it was, you know, almost full week. And we, and that may be why they switched it to Arizona rather than New Jersey. Because there was this access to the Indian reservation and a lot more Latinos in Arizona.

[Assistant] That's right. So Southwest would make sense for a number of reasons.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, very rigorous physical training. The first, one of the first things we did was we went, after the first day or two, we went to an Indian reservation and lived on an Indian reservation for about five days I would say. I don't think it was a full week, but it was, you know, almost full week. And we, and that may be why they switched it to Arizona rather than New Jersey. Because there was this access to the Indian reservation and a lot more Latinos in Arizona.

[Assistant] That's right. So Southwest would make sense for a number of reasons.

[User] Right. And uh, that first week we just did. We walked, we sort of had a partner that we walked with on the reservation, and we asked people if there was anything that we could help with. We introduced ourselves as Peace Corps trainees and we would pick cotton or do anything. So there was, uh, it was an interesting experience that first week. And then we went into a very physical, uh, not academic so much as physical. But we, of course, Spanish classes and history classes of Colombia.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And uh, that first week we just did. We walked, we sort of had a partner that we walked with on the reservation, and we asked people if there was anything that we could help with. We introduced ourselves as Peace Corps trainees and we would pick cotton or do anything. So there was, uh, it was an interesting experience that first week. And then we went into a very physical, uh, not academic so much as physical. But we, of course, Spanish classes and history classes of Colombia.

[Assistant] Yes. Yes.

[User] And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And language too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And uh, so the training period was for like six weeks, I would guess. And then we went to Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] Oh, you did. For yet more physical challenges.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And language too.

[User] Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress.

[Assistant] In stressful situations.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] And language too.

[User] Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress.

[Assistant] In stressful situations.

[User] Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one.

[Assistant] Without coming up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and language. A lot of emphasis on language in Puerto Rico and plus what they call, uh, rigorous, like Navy SEAL exercises. We learned how to belay from a mountain, how to climb a mountain, do mountain climbing and belay down. Those were sort of tests. They felt that they had to push us to, uh, make us make sure that we wouldn't crack under duress.

[Assistant] In stressful situations.

[User] Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one.

[Assistant] Without coming up?

[User] Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped.

[Assistant] And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And swim under underwater with our hands and feet tied. And the length, the double length of an Olympic sized pool, underwater in one.

[Assistant] Without coming up?

[User] Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped.

[Assistant] And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?

[User] Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Without coming up. And it was, some people couldn't make it. Some people were dropped.

[Assistant] And if they couldn't do that physical challenge, they'd be out? They would be deselected?

[User] Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[User] And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great.

[Assistant] And the language training, did you find that adequate?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, there were several that were dropped. Now we felt that they were dropped because they couldn't do the thing. But you know, there might have been other reasons as well. But yeah, it was very much a challenge, but it made, I think it made those of us who were, you know, somewhat athletically inclined. But, you know, never having to do anything like that, want to move on and make sure we did it, you know, make sure we accomplish that. And they took us out into the wilds in groups of three or four, and you had to find your way back with the help of maps and all that.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[User] And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great.

[Assistant] And the language training, did you find that adequate?

[User] I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes.

[Assistant] Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they gave us food to eat, you know, it was like a four-day trek. So Puerto Rico was an interesting, very interesting experience. And we trained, at that time there was another group going to Peru, and we trained with them and that had females in it. So that was a diversion. But it was a great experience. The training was great.

[Assistant] And the language training, did you find that adequate?

[User] I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes.

[Assistant] Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?

[User] No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and.

[Assistant] Language lab. Yeah, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I found it adequate. It was, um, it was not. I don't think I really got it completely until I got into my building there. And I had to, you know, there was no one around that spoke English so. My site partner, of course, at first, but he spoke perfect Spanish because he was from McAllen, Texas, down on the border. And so he. So the challenge was to learn, you know, to just use it. Make mistakes.

[Assistant] Sure. But back in, back during training, um, was the language taught conversationally or was there grammar analysis?

[User] No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and.

[Assistant] Language lab. Yeah, yeah.

[User] Yeah. Language lab.

[Assistant] Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it was grammar, mainly grammar and, um, tapes. We had to listen to tapes and.

[Assistant] Language lab. Yeah, yeah.

[User] Yeah. Language lab.

[Assistant] Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?

[User] Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State.

[Assistant] OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Language lab.

[Assistant] Um, did you have, who was teaching? Were they Colombians teaching you?

[User] Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State.

[Assistant] OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] The people on the coast speak different.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Not Colombians, but Latinos, for sure. Yeah, it was a Latino woman who was in charge of the, um, from Arizona State.

[Assistant] OK. But I suppose if you were being sent all over different parts of Colombia, having a language instructor from Colombia wouldn't necessarily make a difference.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] The people on the coast speak different.

[User] Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different.

[Assistant] So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] The people on the coast speak different.

[User] Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different.

[Assistant] So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?

[User] No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?

[Assistant] Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Very different. But Colombia is very proud of their language and the pronunciation. And so they are known as the most accurate Spanish speakers in all of Latin America. Right from Spain. That's what they claim anyway. Today, it might be different.

[Assistant] So did you, during training, did you already know what part of Colombia you were going to?

[User] No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?

[Assistant] Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?

[User] They assigned us to a family and the family was wealthy, very wealthy. All of the families were very wealthy. They wanted us to get exposed to that type of surrounding and also use Spanish, before we went out into the poorest country, parts of the country. And so to see the difference in living conditions and survival. And that was very good. And most of us had very nice families and continued to correspond with them way after the Peace Corps experience.

[Assistant] So you learned that just because people are wealthy, they're not necessarily evil. You were being introduced to a variety of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Just we got assigned at the very last minute. We got, after leaving Puerto Rico, we went to Colombia and we had two weeks in Bogota, where we had some, uh, training and we were assigned to a family, a very wealthy family. Am I getting ahead of the?

[Assistant] Well, a little bit, but that's OK, because that's also sort of part of training, isn't it? Your orientation to the country?

[User] They assigned us to a family and the family was wealthy, very wealthy. All of the families were very wealthy. They wanted us to get exposed to that type of surrounding and also use Spanish, before we went out into the poorest country, parts of the country. And so to see the difference in living conditions and survival. And that was very good. And most of us had very nice families and continued to correspond with them way after the Peace Corps experience.

[Assistant] So you learned that just because people are wealthy, they're not necessarily evil. You were being introduced to a variety of.

[User] They were basically very happy to have Peace Corps volunteers and many of the families had unattached females who were about our age. So that was a bonus.

[Assistant] Better than Puerto Rico.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were basically very happy to have Peace Corps volunteers and many of the families had unattached females who were about our age. So that was a bonus.

[Assistant] Better than Puerto Rico.

[User] And many of our group married Colombians.

[Assistant] Did they?

[User] Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians.

[Assistant] So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And many of our group married Colombians.

[Assistant] Did they?

[User] Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians.

[Assistant] So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you lost five or 10 out of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I would say maybe out of the 30 or so that ended up staying in the program, probably maybe 10 got married to Colombians.

[Assistant] So about 30, um, out of 35 or 40?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you lost five or 10 out of.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?

Um, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.

Just one interview with a shrink?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you lost five or 10 out of.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?

Um, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.

Just one interview with a shrink?

[User] Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole.

[Assistant] The whole Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
And so what did you all think about that deselection process? Did it seem fair to you or were there some people who were upset that, um, some colleagues were disappearing?

Um, we were sort of surprised at some people, especially a couple who were very good at Spanish. You know, as opposed to some of us who really struggled in Spanish. But um, it was interesting. They gave us a psychiatric session.

Just one interview with a shrink?

[User] Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole.

[Assistant] The whole Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason.

[Assistant] Don't bring it up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. And um, this is a side light. The person who was in charge of the whole.

[Assistant] The whole Peace Corps?

[User] Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason.

[Assistant] Don't bring it up?

[User] Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person.

[Assistant] So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, he came to Arizona and he interviewed every one of the volunteers. And you know, uh, well. You know, word, as soon as some people came out, they said, don't forget to do this, don't forget that. One of the things they said, don't forget to say something about sex, because for some reason.

[Assistant] Don't bring it up?

[User] Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person.

[Assistant] So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?

[User] I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, do bring it up. Bring it up so that they know you're a normal person.

[Assistant] So did you sense that they were weeding out homosexuals?

[User] I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter.

[Assistant] And would they have met had it not been for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't think so. I don't think they had any intention. I think that was just made up by the volunteer you know. But the interesting thing is some, the doctor who was in charge of the whole thing, his son married my niece.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter.

[Assistant] And would they have met had it not been for you?

[User] No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years.

[Assistant] And you said, well, I know him.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. He was good friends with the Kennedy family, especially Sarge Shriver. And he lives in Connecticut now. I've met him many times and his, but his son, yeah, married my brother's daughter.

[Assistant] And would they have met had it not been for you?

[User] No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years.

[Assistant] And you said, well, I know him.

[User] Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later.

[Assistant] So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. They met independently, and one day I was at the market and my niece came up and said, I want you to meet someone. His father was the doctor for the Peace Corps back in the Kennedy years.

[Assistant] And you said, well, I know him.

[User] Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later.

[Assistant] So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?

[User] No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further.

[Assistant] Not later. They weeded some off right there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, right. So he was on that recent program as a matter of fact that Tom Brokaw had done on TV. He had a conversation, Tom Brokaw had a conversation with that doctor. So that was a very strange mix that came about years later.

[Assistant] So you had mentioned that people had, that everyone had to be also interviewed by a psychologist. That was a, you had a different interview, right?

[User] No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further.

[Assistant] Not later. They weeded some off right there.

[User] Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages.

[Assistant] So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I think it was part of the same, the same thing, but it was mainly in Arizona. I don't remember anything further.

[Assistant] Not later. They weeded some off right there.

[User] Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages.

[Assistant] So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?

[User] And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not.

[Assistant] And then another two weeks in, um.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, either in Puerto Rico or in Bogota before we went to our villages.

[Assistant] So six weeks in Arizona, more or less. And then yet how many in?

[User] And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not.

[Assistant] And then another two weeks in, um.

[User] Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah.

[Assistant] Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And probably I think it was at least two weeks, but I'm pretty. It might have been a month. I can't remember whether it was a month or not.

[Assistant] And then another two weeks in, um.

[User] Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah.

[Assistant] Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?

[User] Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia.

[Assistant] OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Another two weeks in Bogota, yeah.

[Assistant] Between, um, I'm trying to think when you said goodbye to your family before you went to training. After training was over, was there another opportunity to go home and do more shopping?

[User] Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia.

[Assistant] OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?

[User] No, no, that was training part.

[Assistant] Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they sent us all home to pick up whatever we needed? And for a week of possible relaxation. And then a group of us flew out of Miami and a group flew out of New York. And we met in Puerto Rico and then in Puerto Rico we had a charter plane to go to Colombia.

[Assistant] OK. Was that the training part of Puerto Rico? Or were you back in Puerto Rico now the second time, just as a?

[User] No, no, that was training part.

[Assistant] Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia.

[User] Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything.

[Assistant] So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, that was training part.

[Assistant] Oh OK. So after you did that incredibly physical challenging thing in Puerto Rico, from there you went straight to Colombia.

[User] Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything.

[Assistant] So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a.

[User] A test.

[Assistant] A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And I might point out that Colombia has three mountain ranges and they have a Caribbean coast and a Pacific coast, but there's not much water or otherwise to go swimming in or anything.

[Assistant] So it becomes clear that the reason for doing this was sort of a.

[User] A test.

[Assistant] A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?

[User] And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation.

[Assistant] OK, so that must have been the ceremony.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A test.

[Assistant] A psychological test. Could you make it? And was your body strong enough to handle whatever? So at some point there must have been a swearing in ceremony. Maybe in Puerto Rico, maybe in Arizona, maybe in Bogota. Do you remember standing up and raising your right hand?

[User] And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation.

[Assistant] OK, so that must have been the ceremony.

[User] Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else.

[Assistant] Oh, about how very special.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I think we might have done that. Sarge Shriver came to Arizona, to Arizona State, for our graduation.

[Assistant] OK, so that must have been the ceremony.

[User] Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else.

[Assistant] Oh, about how very special.

[User] Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh.

[Assistant] Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And actually, I had the honor of presenting him with a basket that was made by the Indians that we had visited and stayed with. And so that was a great memory for me. Not perhaps not for anybody else.

[Assistant] Oh, about how very special.

[User] Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh.

[Assistant] Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people.

[User] Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah.

[Assistant] Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So I'm pretty sure we did to have a swearing in perhaps at, uh.

[Assistant] Maybe it was in Arizona. Although then if they were going to do a final weeding out of people in Puerto Rico, maybe even some of those people.

[User] Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah.

[Assistant] Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?

[User] Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura.

[Assistant] Right within Columbia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, maybe that's true. It could have been in Bogota too. I really don't know. Yeah.

[Assistant] Anything else you want to say about training before we really dig into life in Colombia?

[User] Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura.

[Assistant] Right within Columbia?

[User] In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed.

[Assistant] First Peace Corps casualties.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the only thing that I could say was when we were in training, we were in a big group of. A big group in the auditorium. And we were having a discussion on how training was going and how, you know, what. And it happened that the director of the Colombia project, the Peace Corps director of the Columbia project, came to introduce himself and to get to know some of us. But at that very time, two Peace Corps volunteers were killed in an airplane wreck on their way from Cali to Buenaventura.

[Assistant] Right within Columbia?

[User] In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed.

[Assistant] First Peace Corps casualties.

[User] Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know.

[Assistant] Maybe not what you anticipated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Colombia, yeah. And so that was a big upset that we were exposed to. They were on a regular commercial flight and it went down and in a, you know, very thickly unpopulated area of Colombia. And they named the two camp sites in Puerto Rico after those two volunteers. They were the first to be killed.

[Assistant] First Peace Corps casualties.

[User] Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know.

[Assistant] Maybe not what you anticipated.

[User] Right, right, right. We didn't know what to anticipate, actually, because of the mix of the type of training we were getting, etcetera.

[Assistant] So the day came when you're done with Puerto Rico and you all pile on, you probably all 30 of you piled onto a charter plane that took you from Puerto Rico, nonstop maybe to Bogota.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. But um, I can't remember their names now, but I've known their names for years. But at any rate, so that was an interesting part of our training and our exposure to what we were facing before we ever got there. What we faced when we got there was completely different, I think, you know.

[Assistant] Maybe not what you anticipated.

[User] Right, right, right. We didn't know what to anticipate, actually, because of the mix of the type of training we were getting, etcetera.

[Assistant] So the day came when you're done with Puerto Rico and you all pile on, you probably all 30 of you piled onto a charter plane that took you from Puerto Rico, nonstop maybe to Bogota.

[User] Nonstop, uh huh. And we arrived at Bogota, and we went and stayed in, bussed to a dormitory for one of the universities.

[Assistant] And what time of year was it? What month of the year was this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, I would say. We went into training in February. By the time this, you know, was two months later, three months later. So we were in the middle of summer here, or in the beginning of summer, and down there it was winter. It was still very, it was very cold in Bogota. But of course, Bogota.

[Assistant] The altitude.

[User] Yeah, the altitude. And I remember wearing a topcoat I brought with me, you know, and all that. And there are pictures of us, you know, and everybody had these coats.

[Assistant] Bundled up.

[User] Yeah, bundled up.

[Assistant] But you must have been told. And prepared for seasonal changes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, the altitude. And I remember wearing a topcoat I brought with me, you know, and all that. And there are pictures of us, you know, and everybody had these coats.

[Assistant] Bundled up.

[User] Yeah, bundled up.

[Assistant] But you must have been told. And prepared for seasonal changes.

[User] Yeah, right. And we did training at the Jesuit university in Bogota. And now I'm trying to think of the name of it. And a very famous Jesuit priest gave most of the talks about Colombia and about what was happening in Colombia, because it was this big division between the conservatives and the democrats. And yeah, anyway.

[Assistant] And did he speak to you in Spanish or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right. And we did training at the Jesuit university in Bogota. And now I'm trying to think of the name of it. And a very famous Jesuit priest gave most of the talks about Colombia and about what was happening in Colombia, because it was this big division between the conservatives and the democrats. And yeah, anyway.

[Assistant] And did he speak to you in Spanish or?

[User] He spoke to us in English mainly. He happened to be a very good friend of my sociology teacher at Loyola, because they were both Jesuits. And he was a sociologist as well as my Loyola teacher. So I had a chance to talk to him about that. And, you know, and it was. And he eventually went and joined the one of the groups that were protesting the government and he was killed in that.

[Assistant] Oh my.

[User] Under those circumstances, yeah.

[Assistant] While you were a volunteer there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He spoke to us in English mainly. He happened to be a very good friend of my sociology teacher at Loyola, because they were both Jesuits. And he was a sociologist as well as my Loyola teacher. So I had a chance to talk to him about that. And, you know, and it was. And he eventually went and joined the one of the groups that were protesting the government and he was killed in that.

[Assistant] Oh my.

[User] Under those circumstances, yeah.

[Assistant] While you were a volunteer there?

[User] No, no. It was years later. Years later.

[Assistant] So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Under those circumstances, yeah.

[Assistant] While you were a volunteer there?

[User] No, no. It was years later. Years later.

[Assistant] So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable.

[User] Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory.

[Assistant] And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. It was years later. Years later.

[Assistant] So you arrive in Bogota and you're placed with a family that was quite comfortable.

[User] Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory.

[Assistant] And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?

[User] And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University.

[Assistant] Yeah, but in Spanish.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Comfortable accommodations, you know, after that first few days in the dormitory.

[Assistant] And then you'd come together during the daytime in university classrooms or something?

[User] And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University.

[Assistant] Yeah, but in Spanish.

[User] Yeah, right.

[Assistant] Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And the Jesuit university there. I forget what the name of that university is, but probably something like Colombian Jesuit University.

[Assistant] Yeah, but in Spanish.

[User] Yeah, right.

[Assistant] Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?

[User] Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um.

[Assistant] Names are awful hard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right.

[Assistant] Gee whiz, do you remember who the country director was of Peace Corps at that time?

[User] Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um.

[Assistant] Names are awful hard.

[User] Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors.

[Assistant] Oh my. And he had some of his children with him.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think, um.

[Assistant] Names are awful hard.

[User] Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors.

[Assistant] Oh my. And he had some of his children with him.

[User] Yeah. And his son died.

[Assistant] Oh, how do you live with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, and I should know this name because, uh, Chris Sheldon was his name. Chris Sheldon. And Chris Sheldon was portrayed in a movie called the, uh. I forget what the name of the movie was, but he had a boat that he took his son and a bunch of other kids in, a sailboat, and they did a summer of tutoring, et cetera, and they ran into a storm. It was called, the movie was called something like The Something Storm [White Squall]. And he lost the boat and he was one of, one or two or three survivors.

[Assistant] Oh my. And he had some of his children with him.

[User] Yeah. And his son died.

[Assistant] Oh, how do you live with that?

[User] Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites.

[Assistant] So then you would distribute it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And his son died.

[Assistant] Oh, how do you live with that?

[User] Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites.

[Assistant] So then you would distribute it?

[User] With the Department of Health.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, right. And he was, uh, yeah. But Chris was quite an interesting guy and very low keyed. And then there was another. CARE was our co-sponsor of our group, you know, and so they were, they supported Peace Corps by supplying a certain amount of money and, you know, food and stuff like that. They sent food to Colombia, and they sent the food to drive through to Peace Corps sites.

[Assistant] So then you would distribute it?

[User] With the Department of Health.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then your whole group splits up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] With the Department of Health.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, OK. So at some point, this is two weeks or so, right, in Bogota?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then your whole group splits up?

[User] Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room.

[Assistant] That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And then your whole group splits up?

[User] Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room.

[Assistant] That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?

[User] Six months. At least six months.

[Assistant] So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Splits up and are assigned to a Columbia I volunteer. So we all went to a site where there was a Colombian I volunteer and we lived with them. They had made arrangements so that there was, that whoever was going to get a volunteer had another room. Or accommodations, two people in one room.

[Assistant] That's right. So by the time you arrived at your site, the member of Colombia I had been there already for how long?

[User] Six months. At least six months.

[Assistant] So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Six months. At least six months.

[Assistant] So then you were going to overlap for at least a year, maybe a year and a half you'd be together.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?

[User] Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days.

[Assistant] Back in Bogota?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] With the other person being sort of the senior more experienced one by a few months?

[User] Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days.

[Assistant] Back in Bogota?

[User] In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place.

[Assistant] Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. But my. The big problem there was that he was from McAllen, Texas, and he spoke Spanish perfectly. And so nobody ever talked to me in my village because they knew he could speak Spanish and I was just sort of learning. So I became very frustrated. But by only a few months later, I had a terrible case of tonsillitis and they had to remove my tonsils. So I was in the hospital for a few days.

[Assistant] Back in Bogota?

[User] In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place.

[Assistant] Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?

[User] Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] Ah, El Carmen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Bogota, yeah. And the Peace Corps director came and saw me and he asked me how things were going. And I said, you know, I feel like I'm not accomplishing very much because my partner, who is a very nice guy and we're still friends, speaks Spanish perfectly and etcetera. And so I said, I think I need to change. So I moved from a nice, pleasant, calm, tropical place.

[Assistant] Which was what, if it was tropical it was near the water?

[User] Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] Ah, El Carmen?

[User] El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] They got it all in there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Tropical. It was down south, in the south of Colombia, to the mountainous part and very cold, very cold. But I went, I was transferred with another fellow who had, didn't have the same problem, but wanted to change. And so the two of us were assigned to this village called El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] Ah, El Carmen?

[User] El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] They got it all in there.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] But there had never been a Peace Corps volunteer there before.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] El Carmen de Viboral, which is like three words. So the Carmen of the snake pit. When it was founded, the village was founded and, of course, there was a great Catholic influence, priest, et cetera. And they wanted to name it El Carmen. But because of these, they had lots of snakes in the area. And so they named it El Carmen de Viboral.

[Assistant] They got it all in there.

[User] Right, right.

[Assistant] But there had never been a Peace Corps volunteer there before.

[User] No, there was a couple. There was a guy and he had gotten married.

[Assistant] To a Colombian?