[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Well, sour milk.

[Assistant] Yeah, I like sour milk. I mean, I eat yogurt, you know, that's sour milk, one form.

[User] In a sense.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Cultured.

[User] So there's couscous and zorig, potatoes and onions, and meshwi, which is, um, I guess you'd call it barbecued. Uh, you could, if you're on the road, if you're on the Road of Hope between towns, or you're in a town, you can recognize a restaurant because they would have a goat carcass skinned and opened with the ribs hanging from the outside of the, of the thatch structure. So that's a restaurant if they have the goat displayed. So you go in and order meshwi and they hack off a chunk of it and put it on the coals and cook it. And that was the protein available. And then for a few weeks, I don't remember what time of year, but there were mangoes.

[Assistant] So, um, talk a bit about how you, you were trained, you were introduced to the language, you got to your assignment. And how did you go about trying to work? Did you have a host country counterpart? And how did you work with that person? And what kinds of projects were either underway or that you worked with to initiate perhaps? Or how did you go about ingratiating yourself into the community and a work project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I had a counterpart at the Ministry of Agriculture, which isn't the right title. I can't remember the full, exactly how they called it. Um, but he was, I think, the equivalent of an extension agent. And he was a very, a very curious person. Um, so besides the mud stoves, which is, which is a formed, customized ring of cooled mud, um, dried, that you put your cooking pot in so that you're using less wood for fuel. A lot of places the women are walking for hours and hours and hours, the majority of their day, to pick up what twigs they can. So this is supposed to save, save wood because it's not an open fire. It's got a big opening and a little opening on the other side, and the, it's more efficient use of fuel. And in the cook pot fits right into the ring, kind of, um, not quite airtight. So that was one project.

[Assistant] And so, just so that I get, help me get the image. The clay was formed into a bowl?

[User] No, on the ground you would build a ring.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] A ring in place.

[Assistant] Yeah. And then how did you get the wood, or did you put the wood in the bottom?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, on the ground you would build a ring.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] A ring in place.

[Assistant] Yeah. And then how did you get the wood, or did you put the wood in the bottom?

[User]
Yeah. And on, on, on one side in the ring. You know, imagine it like city walls. There's gates and there's a big gate on one side and a tiny gate relatively on the opposite side. Um, so the big one was big enough to poke in a few sticks at a time, so you'd start your fire, then put the cook pot on top. So it was, it was for a specific pot, and it was permanent in location. And one of the women that I was, became close with, it was, they were kind of like my friend host family. I spent the most time hanging out with them and got the honorary name of that family. They would address me as Liz Jara. Um, and they were the Jara family. Remind, remind me to talk about Jaras and Jallows and the last name joking relationship thing, which you may have already heard about if you talk to people who are in West Africa. Um, beans is the, is the key there.

Um, so the Jaras, uh, the mom explained that she moves her pot around the yard, whether she's dyeing clothes or cooking food or, you know, doing different things. And based on what the wind is doing, where the sun is. She doesn't want to be out in the middle of the sun. She's going to move it over under the shade of the wall and so on. And I remember that being kind of a revelation about appropriate technology and this, this key way of functioning was something that this apparently Africa wide, as far as I knew, Peace Corps projects had not told us about or taken into account, and they were promoting the mud stoves. Um, and maybe she was unusual in how much she moved it around, but I don't, I don't think so from what I saw.

[Assistant] Was her cooking point a mud stove, in essence, or did she just?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Three stones.

[Assistant] Just stones.

[User] Three stones.

[Assistant] Three stones.

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] So that, that particular, uh, engineering, if you will, would have burned more fuel because it had so much draft.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yep.

[Assistant] So that, that particular, uh, engineering, if you will, would have burned more fuel because it had so much draft.

[User] Yep, yep. More fuel. But she could move it where she wanted.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And I don't know where they got wood there were, there were not trees around, it was the Sahara. There was a few trees. There were also, another project that made me suspicious, um, of what I was doing there was that the trees, Prosopis juliflora, was highly promoted. It has a very, it's very fast growing. It has a long taproot. It had been promoted for a decade or two before I got there. And I think right around when I was getting there, they were realizing that these, or maybe, maybe a little after I was there, uh, people were realizing that these trees grew so fast and so deep that they were drying up wells, they were drinking the wells. So, again, something that, you know, we thought, we being the establishment that I was there as a part of, we knew best and put it on people, um, who had been encouraged to think that we knew best. So the whole, the post- colonial stuff, um, was troubling.

[Assistant] Persisted. Right. So when you became aware of some of these things, did you loop that information back into the Peace Corps offices and talk about trying to re, redo the approach or rethink this particular project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Right. Even though it was exactly the opposite of the emphasis you wanted.

[User] Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I couldn't, you know, uh, nay say that. Um, and then, you know, I handed it off to a couple other volunteers because I had really, um. I just burned out on that project, so I handed it off to incoming volunteers once they'd been there, you know, a few months and knew people and were willing to. And, um, when I later heard that, you know, the officials took a computer or two and it was, it was just a resource, uh, for them.

[Assistant] So at the center. So your involvement then extended over some months, or was that during your third year?

[User] That was during my mid second to mid third year.

[Assistant] And so you stayed involved in helping to sort of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I, and I couldn't, you know, uh, nay say that. Um, and then, you know, I handed it off to a couple other volunteers because I had really, um. I just burned out on that project, so I handed it off to incoming volunteers once they'd been there, you know, a few months and knew people and were willing to. And, um, when I later heard that, you know, the officials took a computer or two and it was, it was just a resource, uh, for them.

[Assistant] So at the center. So your involvement then extended over some months, or was that during your third year?

[User] That was during my mid second to mid third year.

[Assistant] And so you stayed involved in helping to sort of?

[User] Very little, very little.

[Assistant] So mostly it was run by local people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Local people and volunteers. Yeah. There were two, uh, volunteers in Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Yeah. And I think we were we were too few and too new and, um, they didn't have enough local support. And I don't know if it's still open or not.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] I know the one in Kiffa, the next regional capital over, um, that went for a while. Like they were able to hand it off to next volunteers, next volunteers. Where I think, I think there was a gap in service in Ayoun too. And I think all the, all the materials, my guess is that they just went into various offices or homes or wherever. Or maybe, maybe, maybe they're still going. Maybe there was an innovative teacher who got into it. You never know.

[Assistant] Yeah. Right. There's so many more things we can talk about, but just a couple of things that come to mind in terms of your service there. And, um, what about contact with home during the time that you were serving, those three years? Did you, did you come home at all? Did you have visitors from home at to your site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Yeah. No, but I went home twice. Um, yeah. To a wedding. To a couple of weddings.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] Yeah. And that was my only visitor from away. And then there were volunteers from other countries who would come through, and they would. That was great. We would get to meet people from other countries and compare notes, and they would all go, oh, Mauritania. And we'd, we'd feel very tough. Um, and then one of ours, one of our guys lost his mind and went wandering around West Africa under an assumed name and like possible criminal activity. And so, like all of Peace Corps West Africa was looking for this guy. So that was kind of exciting.

[Assistant] Um, he was one of, one of your cohort?

[User] Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine.

[Assistant] Oh, uh huh.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And that was my only visitor from away. And then there were volunteers from other countries who would come through, and they would. That was great. We would get to meet people from other countries and compare notes, and they would all go, oh, Mauritania. And we'd, we'd feel very tough. Um, and then one of ours, one of our guys lost his mind and went wandering around West Africa under an assumed name and like possible criminal activity. And so, like all of Peace Corps West Africa was looking for this guy. So that was kind of exciting.

[Assistant] Um, he was one of, one of your cohort?

[User] Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine.

[Assistant] Oh, uh huh.

[User] Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, no, he was, uh, the class one or two before mine.

[Assistant] Oh, uh huh.

[User] Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[User] So like I said, I didn't travel much around the continent, and I wish I had when I still had all my vaccinations and I was used to that mode of travel and could be comfortable, you know, sleeping with a pair of shoes for a pillow. Um. So I went, you know, a few times. So I went down to, we went across the Mali border, um, just to a town that was there. And we went to the West Africa Invitational Softball Tournament in Dakar. And apparently Mauritania had been banned, Peace Corps Mauritania had been banned from WAIST, this softball tournament, previously for debauchery. So we had a reputation to uphold. Um, so, you know, we played softball, we didn't drink water. Um, we drank, uh, Gazelle beer, which is mostly water. So we weren't too dehydrated the whole, the whole time we were in Senegal. Um, we streaked the Marine house party, you know, we made sure we were memorable and upheld the honor of Peace Corps Mauritania, at least the volunteers thereof.

[Assistant] And you didn't get booted out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. He'd been there a while, and I don't know if he was already having issues or if it was the mefloquine or whatever, whatever might be. And he ended up getting caught and sent home, um, finally. I think it was actually Peace Corps volunteers who turned him in because he was causing trouble for them and making them look bad and behaving badly. Um, and then as far as travels, should I talk about?

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[User] So like I said, I didn't travel much around the continent, and I wish I had when I still had all my vaccinations and I was used to that mode of travel and could be comfortable, you know, sleeping with a pair of shoes for a pillow. Um. So I went, you know, a few times. So I went down to, we went across the Mali border, um, just to a town that was there. And we went to the West Africa Invitational Softball Tournament in Dakar. And apparently Mauritania had been banned, Peace Corps Mauritania had been banned from WAIST, this softball tournament, previously for debauchery. So we had a reputation to uphold. Um, so, you know, we played softball, we didn't drink water. Um, we drank, uh, Gazelle beer, which is mostly water. So we weren't too dehydrated the whole, the whole time we were in Senegal. Um, we streaked the Marine house party, you know, we made sure we were memorable and upheld the honor of Peace Corps Mauritania, at least the volunteers thereof.

[Assistant] And you didn't get booted out?

[User] No, we got cheered. And we also got beat by the high school girls in softball, shockingly, because we were all, you know, malnourished and half drunk. So. So yeah. I pitched one no-hitter. And then we were, we were kind of got wiped out by everybody after that. Yeah.

[Assistant] You were a pitcher?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we got cheered. And we also got beat by the high school girls in softball, shockingly, because we were all, you know, malnourished and half drunk. So. So yeah. I pitched one no-hitter. And then we were, we were kind of got wiped out by everybody after that. Yeah.

[Assistant] You were a pitcher?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh, congratulations.

[User] But not MVP. That was the person who somehow managed to catch a ball without dropping their beer or their pizza. To this day.

[Assistant] It was a memorable trip, I can tell.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh, congratulations.

[User] But not MVP. That was the person who somehow managed to catch a ball without dropping their beer or their pizza. To this day.

[Assistant] It was a memorable trip, I can tell.

[User] And I wish I'd gone on the coal train. You know, it's the longest passenger train in the world goes across from somewhere in northern Mauritania. And the people who went on it, they, they just threw out their clothes after. There's no ever washing them clean of coal dust. Um, but they said it was, it was an amazing trip.

[Assistant] They couldn't clean out their lungs, though, could they?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I wish I'd gone on the coal train. You know, it's the longest passenger train in the world goes across from somewhere in northern Mauritania. And the people who went on it, they, they just threw out their clothes after. There's no ever washing them clean of coal dust. Um, but they said it was, it was an amazing trip.

[Assistant] They couldn't clean out their lungs, though, could they?

[User] No, they had, uh, face masks. Well, they had their howley across their face, uh, the men's piece of cloth. And the women had a scarf.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they had, uh, face masks. Well, they had their howley across their face, uh, the men's piece of cloth. And the women had a scarf.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?

[User] Really to make the two years have been worth it, to feel like I had established a project. The moringa trees were really taking off. There was interest where there had not been interest or what I felt like success in with my other projects. Although properly scientific, you would say that discovering that the bio-gas wasn't going to work at a household level is a valid scientific result, and therefore a success in some sense. But I wanted to see something work. And people were getting into it. People's grandmothers remembered moringa, um, but it had gotten drier, so they, they didn't have it anymore. Um, so yeah, that was taking off. So Chun let me have space in his garden and I then, then I went, I got Mahmoud to introduce me to the gardening cooperatives. I went out to some villages and just introduced it. And if people provided a safe space for the trees, for the seedlings, then I would give them seedlings and fence. And the fencing was, was pretty precious. Um.

[Assistant] What was it made of?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Um, you mentioned you stayed a third year. What was the motivation for doing that?

[User] Really to make the two years have been worth it, to feel like I had established a project. The moringa trees were really taking off. There was interest where there had not been interest or what I felt like success in with my other projects. Although properly scientific, you would say that discovering that the bio-gas wasn't going to work at a household level is a valid scientific result, and therefore a success in some sense. But I wanted to see something work. And people were getting into it. People's grandmothers remembered moringa, um, but it had gotten drier, so they, they didn't have it anymore. Um, so yeah, that was taking off. So Chun let me have space in his garden and I then, then I went, I got Mahmoud to introduce me to the gardening cooperatives. I went out to some villages and just introduced it. And if people provided a safe space for the trees, for the seedlings, then I would give them seedlings and fence. And the fencing was, was pretty precious. Um.

[Assistant] What was it made of?

[User] Just like, like fencing. Like almost like we'd see here. Like a lighter, a lighter metal. But, uh, think of, like, a elementary school baseball field.

[Assistant] So there would be metal poles?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Metal poles. And then kind of a big woven mesh between. Very awkward to transport. It was much lighter than that because I was able to carry a roll. I wouldn't be able to carry a roll of that kind of fencing.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] Um, and those are the trees that I think cynically now that the fencing was to keep the goats out of their kitchen. Um, and they probably, yeah, let that, let the goats have the moringa trees. Maybe. Maybe not.

[Assistant] Who knows?

[User] Who knows?

[Assistant] Maybe you'll have a chance to go back and check it out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, and those are the trees that I think cynically now that the fencing was to keep the goats out of their kitchen. Um, and they probably, yeah, let that, let the goats have the moringa trees. Maybe. Maybe not.

[Assistant] Who knows?

[User] Who knows?

[Assistant] Maybe you'll have a chance to go back and check it out.

[User] Nope! I don't think I will go back. Um. Some folks have gone back. I'm part of the Facebook Peace Corps RIM, République Islamique de Mauritanie. So some people report back that they've been there, and some people are still very much in touch with their host family or with friends that they made. One of our language teachers, was one of, one of the activists against slavery in Mauritania, and he's been jailed several times. So we were all kind of following that and writing letters for a while.

[Assistant] He is a Mauritanian?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Ibrahim. Yeah. And he's out as far as I know.

[Assistant] Courageous.

[User] Oh, yeah.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. And they, they still, they've outlawed slavery multiple times, but you know. Yeah.

[Assistant] Um. You're quite emphatic about that, about what, that. Of this simply saying you don't plan to go back. Is there a reason you're, you're feeling, you feel so strongly about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] School for International Training, SIT in Brattleboro. And that's actually what brought me to Brattleboro. And I've been here ever since. Because it was supposed to be all in country, but they pulled us out in September. So January, it was supposed to be January to December. In September, just before our main research phase, we had to come up with our research questions and taking classes and, you know, program design, evaluation, all that stuff. Um, so everybody who managed to graduate, um, had a pretty robust section in their thesis on limitations of the research. And I ended, I ended up doing. I could go on all day about this as well. There's a lot to say, but I did a participatory evaluation of an after school program. So with the help of a translator, asked the after school program staff in the village where I was assigned. It was very much a Peace Corps model, and SIT was where Peace Corps training started, as you know. Um, so we were in five different villages. Mine was in the war zone. I didn't know that at the time. Um, yeah. Pilot program. Uh.

[Assistant] Just as a small clarification. Uh, SIT is where Peace Corps training for Asia began.

[User] Oh, specifically.

[Assistant] Specifically.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, specifically.

[Assistant] Specifically.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents.

[User] Oh, interesting.

[Assistant] But for Asia, it was at SIT.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] Right. Other training took place in other places for other continents.

[User] Oh, interesting.

[Assistant] But for Asia, it was at SIT.

[User] Oh, okay. And I thought it was also where the language training model was developed?

[Assistant] The model. Yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, interesting.

[Assistant] But for Asia, it was at SIT.

[User] Oh, okay. And I thought it was also where the language training model was developed?

[Assistant] The model. Yes.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Yes. Definitely the model for language training for all across the board. All Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Who was a volunteer in?

[User] Ethiopia.

[Assistant] When was that, Cynthia?

[User] That was between the years 1965 through 1967.

[Assistant] Oh, that's interesting, OK. Remind me to bring that up again later. All right, Cynthia, what were you doing when you first got the idea that Peace Corps might be a great thing to do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was between the years 1965 through 1967.

[Assistant] Oh, that's interesting, OK. Remind me to bring that up again later. All right, Cynthia, what were you doing when you first got the idea that Peace Corps might be a great thing to do?

[User] Well, I was a student at the University of Buffalo studying to become a teacher. And at that time, President John F. Kennedy had started talking about, you know, the Peace Corps. And I remember one of his speeches said, ask not what you can do. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] But anyway, at that time they had some representatives, I guess, from the Peace Corps that would come out to the university. And I started attending their meetings to find out really what this was all about. Now technically, it took me five years to go through the university. I had a difficult time the first year. Um. So I don't know, I guess I could chalk up the first year in college and until I finally made up my mind or was able to get into a program, because at that time I was thinking I would be a teacher, but what kind of a teacher? That was the question.

[Assistant] A good one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
You know, there was the, um, our Black revolution going on with Martin Luther King. And, you know, I wasn't actually actively involved, but I was aware of what was going on. Um. And also at the school, you know, as a young person trying to find myself, so things that I may have had a little bit of interest in, I would at least go to their meetings to, you know, to find out what was going on. And also, I remember at that time they always had different people come out to school. And maybe we were sitting on the lawn there, for example, and someone would come up to you and say, do you have any comments that you would like to say about such and such and such? You know. Also, let's see.

My high school background was in music. So I used to play the piano and the accordion. There again, I didn't see myself doing that much with those two instruments. The piano, for example, you had to be the very, very best, I've always thought, in order to get something going. So it kind of left me up in the air as to what was I going to study? So I ended up in this business, and then going to different activities because there was so much going on on the campus. And then also the fact that I'm African American and there were so few of us. Um. Out of that student body, I think there must have been about 20,000 students. And at that time the school was known as University of Buffalo. They had not even gone with the state yet.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I think there were maybe all of 10 of us who were students and that lived in the city of Buffalo and would commute back and forth, because we would always meet at the student union, you know. And to this day, if I see them, they are, we all know each other.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And there were African Americans who stayed on the campus, but because they were in the dorm, it was difficult to get to know them.

[Assistant] They had a different social center.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah. So our little lives kind of dealt around just that 10 of us.

[Assistant] All right.

[User] And I guess we did the best we could as far as being there on the campus and so few of us. But anyway, when all of these different things were going on and they came with the Peace Corps and I would go to the meetings. And I think it was then when I graduated from the applied sciences degree, um, I remember sending an application in to the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I had studied also French. I had two years of French in high school and I had taken a year of French in college. And so when I applied, they immediately sent me a thing indicating that I was to go to some country in West Africa, a French speaking country. But see, I still had in my mind I needed this other education. So I turned it down. I didn't go that year. So I continued my education and I continued going to their meetings whenever they would have those things on the campus. And then when I graduated in 1965, then I reapplied. And one of the questions on the application form was, where do you want to go? Well, I didn't know where I wanted to go because I didn't know that much about Africa. All I know is I wanted to go to Africa. And I think I put down some countries like South Africa.

[Assistant] And they said sorry.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I guess we did the best we could as far as being there on the campus and so few of us. But anyway, when all of these different things were going on and they came with the Peace Corps and I would go to the meetings. And I think it was then when I graduated from the applied sciences degree, um, I remember sending an application in to the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And I had studied also French. I had two years of French in high school and I had taken a year of French in college. And so when I applied, they immediately sent me a thing indicating that I was to go to some country in West Africa, a French speaking country. But see, I still had in my mind I needed this other education. So I turned it down. I didn't go that year. So I continued my education and I continued going to their meetings whenever they would have those things on the campus. And then when I graduated in 1965, then I reapplied. And one of the questions on the application form was, where do you want to go? Well, I didn't know where I wanted to go because I didn't know that much about Africa. All I know is I wanted to go to Africa. And I think I put down some countries like South Africa.

[Assistant] And they said sorry.

[User] The person looked at me and said, oh no, I don't think you can go there. So I said, well, wherever you think would be the best place for me. And they chose Ethiopia. So that's how I got to go there.

[Assistant] And you found out fairly quickly, is that? I mean, you said you graduated like May of '65 and you had already done your application?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The person looked at me and said, oh no, I don't think you can go there. So I said, well, wherever you think would be the best place for me. And they chose Ethiopia. So that's how I got to go there.

[Assistant] And you found out fairly quickly, is that? I mean, you said you graduated like May of '65 and you had already done your application?

[User] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I had already sent the application in before I graduated.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And I had two things. I had a choice there. I had been accepted to teach in the Buffalo city schools. I'd taken the test and whatever I needed, I was ready and set to teach. And also, I had applied to the Peace Corps, so I had an option there of what I wanted to do and I chose to go to the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Any conclusions on why you went that way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had two things. I had a choice there. I had been accepted to teach in the Buffalo city schools. I'd taken the test and whatever I needed, I was ready and set to teach. And also, I had applied to the Peace Corps, so I had an option there of what I wanted to do and I chose to go to the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Any conclusions on why you went that way?

[User] Well. I grew up, I wasn't born in the city of Buffalo, but I grew up here. My parents moved here from the South and their goal was that all of the children should get an education. You know, just like Martin Luther King, we need an education to advance ourselves and so forth, coming out of that era. And as a result, my father was very, very strict on us. There were two of us at that time, and then later I had a younger sister. And coming from a very strict family, we were not allowed to participate in a lot of things that I would see other young people participating in. And so when the Peace Corps came up, I said.

[Assistant] Freedom!

[User] This is my way out. I want to see the world. I want to visit and want to go other places. I've got to do this first. And that's what I chose.

[Assistant] And Dad's reaction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And um, so anyway, I chose to go ahead with this to Utah, and I knew that Salt Lake City was a very racist type of a place, and uh, with the Mormons being there. But I figured, well, you know, go ahead. Now, another thing that really bothered me back then is I wanted someone to be with me. I didn't want to go alone. And all the time that I was going to the Peace Corps meetings in college, I had a few girlfriends, you know, and I asked one girl in particular because she and I were very close. I said, I think I'm going to join the Peace Corps. Why don't you join also? And she says, oh no. She says, I have a boyfriend and I'm planning on getting married. I'm not going anywhere. And so I said, well, OK. So she went her direction and I went mine.

[Assistant] Did you, were you a little nervous about that?

[User] Yeah, I was, because I left here. It was my first plane ride. First plane ride alone leaving Buffalo going to an unknown place.

[Assistant] Salt Lake City.

[User] And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything.

[Assistant] Checking them out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I was, because I left here. It was my first plane ride. First plane ride alone leaving Buffalo going to an unknown place.

[Assistant] Salt Lake City.

[User] And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything.

[Assistant] Checking them out.

[User] So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience.

[Assistant] Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I remember getting on that plane. And I was so scared I was just shaking. It left from here to Chicago. I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? But then I got to Chicago. And they told us to meet at a particular place there at the airport. So I finally found that place and we were sitting around. It was like a little rotunda. And everybody was looking at everybody else, and no one wanted to say anything.

[Assistant] Checking them out.

[User] So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience.

[Assistant] Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?

[User] Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So finally, someone said, are you going to Utah? Are you with the Peace Corps? And that was the beginning of a wonderful, a wonderful experience.

[Assistant] Excellent. Excellent. So you're all in the same boat together at the same stage?

[User] Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?

[User] The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at.

[Assistant] Any other New York state, do you think?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. But I enjoyed my experience with the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] OK. How about let's talk a little bit about, you know, the training?

[User] The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at.

[Assistant] Any other New York state, do you think?

[User] Um, yeah. New York City.

[Assistant] New York City, ah, that's a long ways away from here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The training part was really exciting for me. It was a chance for me to see some other things, to meet other people, because there were volunteers that came from all over the United States. There were a lot of them from Ohio. I don't know how there were so many from Ohio, but there was no one from Buffalo. There was no one from Buffalo. You know, I kept looking at.

[Assistant] Any other New York state, do you think?

[User] Um, yeah. New York City.

[Assistant] New York City, ah, that's a long ways away from here.

[User] But no one from Buffalo. And I always even to this day, like Eleanor, I finally met Eleanor, you know, and it's like, finally get someone. But where all the other people, you know? But that experience in the training was very enlightening for me. I got an opportunity to meet people from all over the United States. Even though Utah, Salt Lake City, was an experience, at least I got to go to the tabernacle there and to see that and to listen to.

[Assistant] Did they make you feel comfortable as an African American there? Were your fears put aside?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But no one from Buffalo. And I always even to this day, like Eleanor, I finally met Eleanor, you know, and it's like, finally get someone. But where all the other people, you know? But that experience in the training was very enlightening for me. I got an opportunity to meet people from all over the United States. Even though Utah, Salt Lake City, was an experience, at least I got to go to the tabernacle there and to see that and to listen to.

[Assistant] Did they make you feel comfortable as an African American there? Were your fears put aside?

[User] Pretty much. Yeah.

[Assistant] Good. Great.

[User] We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth.

[Assistant] They have them in Salt Lake City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty much. Yeah.

[Assistant] Good. Great.

[User] We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth.

[Assistant] They have them in Salt Lake City?

[User] Oh, yes, they do.

[Assistant] Oh, see, I have stereotypes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were always together. We didn't really go out alone or anything like that, because some people would say, like Fridays after we had a chance to relax from all of our studies and what training that we were going through. Then someone would say, well, let's go this place, then that place. And so we would kind of all get together and do those things. And it was also an opportunity for me to, let's say, go out at night, you know, to the clubs and so forth.

[Assistant] They have them in Salt Lake City?

[User] Oh, yes, they do.

[Assistant] Oh, see, I have stereotypes.

[User] Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go.

[Assistant] All right. Yeah. All right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, they do.

[Assistant] Oh, see, I have stereotypes.

[User] Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go.

[Assistant] All right. Yeah. All right.

[User] And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?

[Assistant] Oh, the Great Salt Lake?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they do. They did at that time, yeah. So we found out where to go. And there were also volunteers I found that came from affluent families. So they, um, those volunteers, I guess, their parents have given them or they had a lot of money, so they were able to rent cars. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness. So on the weekends, they would rent these cars that we'd get in them and go where we wanted to go.

[Assistant] All right. Yeah. All right.

[User] And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?

[Assistant] Oh, the Great Salt Lake?

[User] Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company.

[Assistant] Like you weren't in it alone anymore.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I didn't get to see the Grand Canyon at that time, but I did get to go down to where is it, the salt? The salt mines?

[Assistant] Oh, the Great Salt Lake?

[User] Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company.

[Assistant] Like you weren't in it alone anymore.

[User] Yeah. So we finished the tour and we were studying and it was rigorous. We were supposed to learn.

[Assistant] The language of the country you're going to?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I did get to see that and I saw mainly, you know, the city itself and the university where we were studying. But just the idea of being with other people and enjoying their company.

[Assistant] Like you weren't in it alone anymore.

[User] Yeah. So we finished the tour and we were studying and it was rigorous. We were supposed to learn.

[Assistant] The language of the country you're going to?

[User] Mm hmm. And also, they had some of the guys from the country who were supposed to, or who were there to explain to us what it was like to live in their country.

[Assistant] OK. Did you find them interesting? Were they open and?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm. And also, they had some of the guys from the country who were supposed to, or who were there to explain to us what it was like to live in their country.

[Assistant] OK. Did you find them interesting? Were they open and?

[User] Yes, they were. Yes, they were.

[Assistant] All men?

[User] Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there.

[Assistant] You got it. Yeah, OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were. Yes, they were.

[Assistant] All men?

[User] Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there.

[Assistant] You got it. Yeah, OK.

[User] The sounds, the smells, the feeling. You don't know that until you are actually in that place. So that part itself was interesting.

[Assistant] How was the language training for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were all men. We didn't get, there were no young girls there. But they would tell us things about their country and we would listen and, you know, try to understand. But what I found from that is no matter how much people tell you how things are, you never really know until you get there.

[Assistant] You got it. Yeah, OK.

[User] The sounds, the smells, the feeling. You don't know that until you are actually in that place. So that part itself was interesting.

[Assistant] How was the language training for you?

[User] Now, the language training for me. Because that's why they had the two programs, I understand. Our program, we were to learn to speak using the phonetics. And the other group I understand, they were taught to read.

[Assistant] Oh, so you were going to be only verbally?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The spoken, right.

[Assistant] Orally.

[User] Right. So I never got to understand the Amharic alphabet.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] I never ever learned what that alphabet is. And after I got to Addis Ababa, I would ask, you know, people that I was working with or other volunteers or, uh, the maid that was there, you know, what different things were. Or the educated Ethiopians, you know, how to read the language, but we were never taught that. We were taught how to speak the language.

[Assistant] And how did you do with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I never ever learned what that alphabet is. And after I got to Addis Ababa, I would ask, you know, people that I was working with or other volunteers or, uh, the maid that was there, you know, what different things were. Or the educated Ethiopians, you know, how to read the language, but we were never taught that. We were taught how to speak the language.

[Assistant] And how did you do with that?

[User] And I did pretty good with it. And while I was there, I was able to communicate to the help that we had. I was able to also travel downtown, you know, get a taxi and go downtown and buy what I wanted to buy. I could go to the market and bargain with them to get the things that I wanted.

[Assistant] Oh good.

[User] So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that.

[Assistant] It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I did pretty good with it. And while I was there, I was able to communicate to the help that we had. I was able to also travel downtown, you know, get a taxi and go downtown and buy what I wanted to buy. I could go to the market and bargain with them to get the things that I wanted.

[Assistant] Oh good.

[User] So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that.

[Assistant] It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask.

[User] No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know.

[Assistant] Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it became quite comfortable in that respect. You know, you learn the basics. A little bit of what the alphabet is, how to count and so forth. But the reading part, it just never, because we were not taught that.

[Assistant] It shortchanged because you couldn't pick up a newspaper and see what was going on, you had to ask.

[User] No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know.

[Assistant] Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?

[User] Uh, let me think. I better not say no.

[Assistant] But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it had to have the English there. If the English was not there then, you know, I didn't know.

[Assistant] Did they publish newspapers in English in Addis?

[User] Uh, let me think. I better not say no.

[Assistant] But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have.

[User] There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic.

[Assistant] OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, let me think. I better not say no.

[Assistant] But you didn't have access. It might as well be no because you didn't have.

[User] There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic.

[Assistant] OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?

[User] There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have.

[Assistant] Oh, very good.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were newspapers there and I think they may have had them where there was English under some. But the newspaper itself was published in Amharic.

[Assistant] OK, what else were you taught for, um, like you had Ethiopian cultural studies. Did you have any American history that you were asked to undergo any? Any other courses other than your technical stuff and some histories?

[User] There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have.

[Assistant] Oh, very good.

[User] Wax and Gold and another book.

[Assistant] And did you read them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were some Ethiopian history. In fact, they encouraged us to purchase two books, which I still have.

[Assistant] Oh, very good.

[User] Wax and Gold and another book.

[Assistant] And did you read them?

[User] I didn't have time.

[Assistant] For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Wax and Gold and another book.

[Assistant] And did you read them?

[User] I didn't have time.

[Assistant] For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement.

[User] I didn't have time, I was having too much fun.

[Assistant] Oh, good. Well, that's all right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't have time.

[Assistant] For your retirement, my dear, for your retirement.

[User] I didn't have time, I was having too much fun.

[Assistant] Oh, good. Well, that's all right.

[User] You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that.

[Assistant] Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I didn't have time, I was having too much fun.

[Assistant] Oh, good. Well, that's all right.

[User] You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that.

[Assistant] Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?

[User] I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth.

[Assistant] And you were going to be teaching?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I was having too much fun. And plus they had given us, you know, our training manuals, which were all with the phonetic alphabet there. So it's a lot of, um, time spent with that.

[Assistant] Well, so what were you being prepared to teach?

[User] I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth.

[Assistant] And you were going to be teaching?

[User] I was going to be teaching business courses.

[Assistant] Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was. It was general because we were all there to teach different things. There were people in English and math and science and history and so forth.

[Assistant] And you were going to be teaching?

[User] I was going to be teaching business courses.

[Assistant] Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?

[User] You know, I really don't remember.

[Assistant] Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was going to be teaching business courses.

[Assistant] Business. All right. How much preparation did it to give you about Ethiopian schools? Did they give you some background on what to expect?

[User] You know, I really don't remember.

[Assistant] Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough.

[User] We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me.

[Assistant] Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I really don't remember.

[Assistant] Doesn't matter, just what you remember. That's all we want to know. You'll find out soon enough.

[User] We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me.

[Assistant] Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?

[User] That was a surprise.

[Assistant] Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were again given, you know, like I said, there were two or three books that we had there on Ethiopian history. Haile Selassie was the emperor then, so we were given a little bit of the politics behind that regime and what had happened prior to that time, and they also encouraged us not to get involved in the politics while we were there. So but see, I wasn't a political person so that didn't even phase me.

[Assistant] Did you know what to expect in an Ethiopian school when you walked in? Or was that kind of a surprise?

[User] That was a surprise.

[Assistant] Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So but you'd done student teaching.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was a surprise.

[Assistant] Did you do some, uh, student teaching in Utah to prepare you to teach?

[User] No.

[Assistant] So but you'd done student teaching.

[User] I had done my student teaching prior to that time.

[Assistant] So you at least been in the classroom.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] So but you'd done student teaching.

[User] I had done my student teaching prior to that time.

[Assistant] So you at least been in the classroom.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you had some expectations where others may not have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had done my student teaching prior to that time.

[Assistant] So you at least been in the classroom.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you had some expectations where others may not have.

[User] I had, you know, a year, in fact two semesters of student teaching. I'm trying to think.

[Assistant] No, it doesn't matter.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you had some expectations where others may not have.

[User] I had, you know, a year, in fact two semesters of student teaching. I'm trying to think.

[Assistant] No, it doesn't matter.

[User] I don't remember.

[Assistant] They were doing American government courses, but most people slept through them in my group. I can't speak for others.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember.

[Assistant] They were doing American government courses, but most people slept through them in my group. I can't speak for others.

[User] And I do remember since we were at the university, we'd have these classes university style, you know, you go into a lecture room and there you are.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember.

[Assistant] How about health preparations, health issues?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I do remember since we were at the university, we'd have these classes university style, you know, you go into a lecture room and there you are.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember.

[Assistant] How about health preparations, health issues?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Well prepared for that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But if you've been up all night trying to decipher your lessons and to understand the Amharic and just the other things that were involved there, by the time you get to these classes. There were a few, like you said, that I slept through. I don't even remember.

[Assistant] How about health preparations, health issues?

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Well prepared for that?

[User] Yes, they gave us quite a bit about the health issues. Now, in fact, part of our training involved swimming. And we had gym classes, you know, exercise classes. I had the swimming classes. Now I guess I didn't do my duty and I'm suffering even to this day. I don't know how to swim.

[Assistant] Did you ever fall into the river in Ethiopia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they gave us quite a bit about the health issues. Now, in fact, part of our training involved swimming. And we had gym classes, you know, exercise classes. I had the swimming classes. Now I guess I didn't do my duty and I'm suffering even to this day. I don't know how to swim.

[Assistant] Did you ever fall into the river in Ethiopia?

[User] Well, let me tell. Let me tell you. I had made up my mind that I was going to go to the Peace Corps and I said, whatever I have to do, I'm going to do it. There's not going to be any stumbling block. So in high school, I didn't do what I was supposed to do as far as learning how to swim, because I want to mess up my hair and all of this. So I didn't learn how to swim in high school. But when the Peace Corps said, oh yes, you have swimming classes, we're going to teach you how to swim. Then I was doing well. I could even float on my back and turn over and do all these great things. Then one day someone came to, I guess the director of our program, and said, well, they don't really need to know how to swim because the lakes are infested with all kinds of diseases. And then there's the alligators, crocodiles, and what have you, and we don't suggest that they go swimming. So they cut the program. I never learned how. That was the end of my swimming.

[Assistant] Oh man.

[User] Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do.

[Assistant] Boil your water, filter your water.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, let me tell. Let me tell you. I had made up my mind that I was going to go to the Peace Corps and I said, whatever I have to do, I'm going to do it. There's not going to be any stumbling block. So in high school, I didn't do what I was supposed to do as far as learning how to swim, because I want to mess up my hair and all of this. So I didn't learn how to swim in high school. But when the Peace Corps said, oh yes, you have swimming classes, we're going to teach you how to swim. Then I was doing well. I could even float on my back and turn over and do all these great things. Then one day someone came to, I guess the director of our program, and said, well, they don't really need to know how to swim because the lakes are infested with all kinds of diseases. And then there's the alligators, crocodiles, and what have you, and we don't suggest that they go swimming. So they cut the program. I never learned how. That was the end of my swimming.

[Assistant] Oh man.

[User] Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do.

[Assistant] Boil your water, filter your water.

[User] Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that.

[Assistant] Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So that part, OK. And then they, of course, told us about how to be careful with our food, the water particularly, and preparation of the food. Preparation, you know, they told us what we had to do.

[Assistant] Boil your water, filter your water.

[User] Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that.

[Assistant] Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?

[User] I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go.

[Assistant] They were deselected, I think that was the term?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Boil it, filter it, and put the tablets in and those kinds of things. And also about malaria. And we, they gave us a whole slew of the shots prior to the time that we left, so we were well prepared for that.

[Assistant] Did you notice any psychological investigation? Did you undergo any of that stuff?

[User] I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go.

[Assistant] They were deselected, I think that was the term?

[User] Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why.

[Assistant] Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm remembering, yes, we did, but I don't remember the details of that. And I say that because when it came to the close of our training, there were some members of the group that didn't pass for whatever reason. And so they didn't go.

[Assistant] They were deselected, I think that was the term?

[User] Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why.

[Assistant] Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me.

[User] Maybe, but at this point.

[Assistant] It must have been fine because there you are.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were. That was the word. They were deselected at that time. And I guess I was just not aware of why.

[Assistant] Do you remember having an interview with a psychologist? Were they? I remember somebody giving me the results of my test on the Peace Corps thing and my language evaluation. And then they gave a kind of a profile from the staff that had given some comments about me.

[User] Maybe, but at this point.

[Assistant] It must have been fine because there you are.

[User] I really don't remember. I know we did, as I remember now, we did talk with different people at different times.

[Assistant] We had these sensitivity training sessions and you were supposed to raise comments about somebody. You know, is there anybody here you're not getting along with? And our group refuse to cooperate. So we played word games until they canceled sensitivity training. But maybe by the time you came along, they decided it was not a very good deal and didn't waste their time. All righty. Anything else you remember about training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I really don't remember. I know we did, as I remember now, we did talk with different people at different times.

[Assistant] We had these sensitivity training sessions and you were supposed to raise comments about somebody. You know, is there anybody here you're not getting along with? And our group refuse to cooperate. So we played word games until they canceled sensitivity training. But maybe by the time you came along, they decided it was not a very good deal and didn't waste their time. All righty. Anything else you remember about training?

[User] Um. Just overall, it was just a good experience.

[Assistant] Good.

[User] Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about.

[Assistant] OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Just overall, it was just a good experience.

[Assistant] Good.

[User] Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about.

[Assistant] OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?

[User] Yeah, I remember that.

[Assistant] Tell me about it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Overall, it was just a good experience for me. And it was a chance to say, OK, now I'm moving forward in an opportunity to go other places, to meet other people, and find out what life is all about.

[Assistant] OK. All right, so remember the day you went to Ethiopia, the flights to Ethiopia?

[User] Yeah, I remember that.

[Assistant] Tell me about it.

[User] We were, at the close of the training, we were given our tickets home and they told us what to pack. How to pack, how much we could carry, and so forth. And then when we were to meet in New York City at the Kennedy airport. You need another pen?

[Assistant] No, I'm fine, thanks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were, at the close of the training, we were given our tickets home and they told us what to pack. How to pack, how much we could carry, and so forth. And then when we were to meet in New York City at the Kennedy airport. You need another pen?

[Assistant] No, I'm fine, thanks.

[User] So I came home and packed my bags. My family, I think they just kind of looked at me. They didn't really say too much. My mother was always the quiet one, and she went along with whatever her daughter wanted. And I was the oldest. So I was the one who was making the way for the others at the time. And so my father didn't really say too much. You know, he already said, I don't think you should do that. But at this point, you know, I'm an adult, so.

[Assistant] Absolutely.

[User] So I got myself ready. And we went to New York and we all met at the Kennedy airport. And I think maybe the airport as it is now was not the way it was then.

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I got myself ready. And we went to New York and we all met at the Kennedy airport. And I think maybe the airport as it is now was not the way it was then.

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure.

[User] Because they told us which area to meet, and it was a huge rotunda there so we met, you know, all of us that passed our examinations. We were happy to see each other. So they had a chartered plane for us.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yes. So at the point in time, because it was in the evening. We didn't leave early in the morning. We left around 6:00 or 7:00, I remember. And here was this chartered plane all full of young, wide eyed, bushy tailed volunteers. So we get on this chartered TWA plane and we head east into.

[Assistant] Oh. Yes, across the.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because they told us which area to meet, and it was a huge rotunda there so we met, you know, all of us that passed our examinations. We were happy to see each other. So they had a chartered plane for us.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yes. So at the point in time, because it was in the evening. We didn't leave early in the morning. We left around 6:00 or 7:00, I remember. And here was this chartered plane all full of young, wide eyed, bushy tailed volunteers. So we get on this chartered TWA plane and we head east into.

[Assistant] Oh. Yes, across the.

[User] Across the ocean. We never slept.

[Assistant] Oh, of course not.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We never slept. We were up all night.

[Assistant] All excited.

[User] And they were serving food. Not liquor, but you know, I think they did have or something. People were up playing cards and talking and laughing and walking around to the point that I think at some point, the airplane pilot said, you know, I think you'd better sit down. But they sat down for a while and then people are up walking and talking and just laughing. And that was the first time that I could see the sun come up. And we were going into the sun. It never got dark. It was light, we were going into. We were going into the sun. And so our flight. We left from New York and we went to Athens. And so we were in Athens, I think, for a day.

[Assistant] Oh, wow.

[User] We didn't get to see anything though. I think, I remember we got off the plane. And I'm not too clear whether we even went into the city. I'm kind of foggy about that.

[Assistant] Was the group getting a little sleepier at this time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We didn't get to see anything though. I think, I remember we got off the plane. And I'm not too clear whether we even went into the city. I'm kind of foggy about that.

[Assistant] Was the group getting a little sleepier at this time?

[User] Yes. I'm pretty sure. Yes, we did, we got off the plane. They had hotel reservations for us, so we were on again a chartered bus that took us into Athens because I remember seeing bits and pieces of some of the city. And then we spent the night there and had a chance to relax and, you know, eat and so forth. And they talked to us again about going to Ethiopia and what to expect, the climate and the precautions that we should take. So then the next day, we got back on another chartered. It wasn't the same one though. I think it was, um, the Ethiopian Airlines. And so then we left from Athens on that chartered plane. And from there the next thing was, uh, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] So, I don't remember how many hours it was. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the Ethiopian Airlines. Yeah, this picture here. So when we get there, they had told us also that the weather, some of the weather conditions. So in September, we are thinking it's going to be cool. [tape break]

[Assistant] OK, off the airplane.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I'm pretty sure. Yes, we did, we got off the plane. They had hotel reservations for us, so we were on again a chartered bus that took us into Athens because I remember seeing bits and pieces of some of the city. And then we spent the night there and had a chance to relax and, you know, eat and so forth. And they talked to us again about going to Ethiopia and what to expect, the climate and the precautions that we should take. So then the next day, we got back on another chartered. It wasn't the same one though. I think it was, um, the Ethiopian Airlines. And so then we left from Athens on that chartered plane. And from there the next thing was, uh, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] So, I don't remember how many hours it was. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the Ethiopian Airlines. Yeah, this picture here. So when we get there, they had told us also that the weather, some of the weather conditions. So in September, we are thinking it's going to be cool. [tape break]

[Assistant] OK, off the airplane.

[User] OK, so we got off Ethiopian Airlines, and then they put us again on a bus. And there were other volunteers on the bus who had already been in Ethiopia for a while, so they met us at the airport. And I guess assisted us in terms of getting all of our things and helping out with that because we were, I noticed most of us that were new, we were seated. And then since they were, they had been in Ethiopia for a while, they were standing up.

[Assistant] No, that's OK. Just some oil on the paper.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that's why they just walk and they go different places and their clothes are the way they are. But he really didn't explain that. He just, I just remember his comment. Oh, they do that, something to that effect. He didn't really answer my question. And so then we go into the city and they put us up at the Addis Ababa Hotel. And at that point, then that's where we stayed there for several days while they farm us out to our localities, tell us where we're supposed to go.

[Assistant] Well, you didn't know what your destination, your actual site yet, until you got to?

[User] No. OK. So some of us were placed in the city. Others were outside of the city in places such as Harar, Irgalem, Debre Birhan. Some up to the north of Addis Ababa. I don't think there were too many that were placed up in Asmara at that time. But each person had their own place that they were to go. Now I was placed in the city of Addis Ababa. And there was another volunteer, her name was Mary Mannigan. She and I were roommates, we ended up as roommates, and we were one of the last to be placed. Because they wanted to get the other people in position. Now as to how those other volunteers got to their destinations, I'm not too clear exactly how they did that.

[Assistant] That's alright.

[User] Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well.

[Assistant] When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. OK. So some of us were placed in the city. Others were outside of the city in places such as Harar, Irgalem, Debre Birhan. Some up to the north of Addis Ababa. I don't think there were too many that were placed up in Asmara at that time. But each person had their own place that they were to go. Now I was placed in the city of Addis Ababa. And there was another volunteer, her name was Mary Mannigan. She and I were roommates, we ended up as roommates, and we were one of the last to be placed. Because they wanted to get the other people in position. Now as to how those other volunteers got to their destinations, I'm not too clear exactly how they did that.

[Assistant] That's alright.

[User] Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well.

[Assistant] When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out.

[User] Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work.

[Assistant] They didn't do your housing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Whether, you know, whether they gave them taxi or whether they had a bus to take them out there. But I do know that many of them were placed in those villages. And if there were, with the girls particularly, there were always two. All right. And it was I think a real experience for them, because there were not the comforts that we were used to out there. No running water, toilets, or that kind of stuff. And even the cooking may have been an experience for them as well.

[Assistant] When you heard you were going to be in Addis, were you disappointed or were you relieved? You knew there was the potential for being out.

[User] Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work.

[Assistant] They didn't do your housing?

[User] No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, it didn't faze me. It really didn't faze me one way or the other. It's just like, oh, OK. We're going to be here in the city of Addis Ababa. And I just remember they also, when they finally told us where we were going to be, then they said, well, you know, look around or ask different people. And we were kind of baffled as to who to ask. And they said, see if you can find a house close to where you're going to work.

[Assistant] They didn't do your housing?

[User] No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well.

[Assistant] So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they didn't. No, not for us. So Mary and I, we took a taxi because we knew, they told us you're going to teach at Tafari Makonnen High School. All right. And they said it's in the northern part of the city. So I remember we took a taxi to that location to figure out where we were going to be, what the compound of that school was like. OK. And then we started talking to, I guess some of the local people, I'm not clear exactly how this happened, but we did talk to some of the local people and they pointed out different houses where we could have, where we would live. So we were able to get, um, get a house within walking distance of our school, which was actually right behind Haile Selassie's palace.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness.

[User] So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well.

[Assistant] So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?

[User] I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out.

[Assistant] Oh yeah, OK.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So in the mornings as we would walk to school, his lion was walking the wall back and forth, you know, and I thought, OK, is this lion, and looking down at us and other people, of course, because it was a dirt road, of course, you know, kind of paved, but not really that well.

[Assistant] So do you think you were lucky in finding such a good accommodation or is it the two of you together? You know, the people in that area were happy to have you or you just lucked out?

[User] I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out.

[Assistant] Oh yeah, OK.

[User] And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought.

[Assistant] Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think we just lucked out. Yeah, I think we just lucked out. They also, you know, told us in terms of getting someone to help, because they said, you know, because the altitude of Addis Ababa is like 8,000 feet above sea level. So they said it's going to take you a long time to cook. Boiling water is going to take a long time and so forth. So they did talk to us about those things. And so as we found housing, we went to look at it and, you know, both of us agreed it was OK. And it was, um, two bedrooms. When we opened the front door, it was kind of like those doors that you open out.

[Assistant] Oh yeah, OK.

[User] And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought.

[Assistant] Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?

[User] No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us.

[Assistant] He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And there was one bedroom on the left and one on the right, so we each chose which bedroom. And then the center portion was the living room. And then I think behind one of the bedrooms, a little area there, which we used as a dining room. And then behind that was a smaller room, which we set up as a kitchen. So after we got our housing, then we proceeded to go out and people were, you know, the local people were helping us in terms of getting some furniture, which we bought.

[Assistant] Oh, it wasn't furnished at all?

[User] No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us.

[Assistant] He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?

[User] Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find.

[Assistant] Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, we had to buy our furniture. And then they told us how to, you know, rent the stove and the cylinder of gas and how you could also rent the little refrigerator. And then when it came to hiring the help, again we kind of relied on the local people. But I think now that I'm remembering, um, these guys who were there as our teachers. I think he, what was his name? There was one guy named Samuel. Yeah. This one, he came back. He went back to Ethiopia about the time that we did. So he kept in contact with us.

[Assistant] He looks Ethiopian, doesn't he?

[User] Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find.

[Assistant] Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian.

[User] Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him.

[Assistant] Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. He kept in contact with us. So after he may have even helped us find.

[Assistant] Oh, he's your instructor in Amharic? Oh, that's why he looks Ethiopian.

[User] Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him.

[Assistant] Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?

[User] Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there.

[Assistant] Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. So he kept in contact with us. And he may have even helped us, you know, find housing and find, you know, what they call as a bunion, who is a guard. And the lady who would come once a day to clean the house, but mainly she was there for the cooking. There wasn't that much cleaning to be done. So I'm trying to think who else was there. This person also, I think he went back to Ethiopia. I remember him.

[Assistant] Well, that's a real advantage, isn't it?

[User] Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there.

[Assistant] Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile.

[User] Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time.

[Assistant] It will come to you right after I leave.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. The others. There was another one man. Which? Um, I don't know, we became buddies also. But he had come from Ethiopia, and I remember in conversations with him, he said that he wasn't ready to go back to Ethiopia yet. I guess there was some problems with the politics there.

[Assistant] Oh, yes. He was kind of an exile.

[User] Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time.

[Assistant] It will come to you right after I leave.

[User] We kept in contact for a long time, you know, he would write letters and ask how we were doing. And I would write back. And then eventually he said he got married. He married an American here. But I don't really remember if he ever, ever went back to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Hmm. Was your roommate at the time, was she African American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Can't remember what the heck his name is. I should be ashamed because we kept in contact for a long time.

[Assistant] It will come to you right after I leave.

[User] We kept in contact for a long time, you know, he would write letters and ask how we were doing. And I would write back. And then eventually he said he got married. He married an American here. But I don't really remember if he ever, ever went back to Ethiopia.

[Assistant] Hmm. Was your roommate at the time, was she African American?

[User] Yes, she was.

[Assistant] Oh. You think there was an advantage? Although there have been lots of whites in and out of Addis over the years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, she was.

[Assistant] Oh. You think there was an advantage? Although there have been lots of whites in and out of Addis over the years.

[User] I don't know. I don't know one way or the other whether it was. It just was that the two of us were business teachers. She was, um, she had been trained as a business teacher, and I too. So they needed business teachers at that particular school. And incidentally, the Tafari Makonnen school was, um, a Jesuit school.

[Assistant] Oh wow.

[User] And it was run by the Jesuits.

[Assistant] It should have been a good school.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. I don't know one way or the other whether it was. It just was that the two of us were business teachers. She was, um, she had been trained as a business teacher, and I too. So they needed business teachers at that particular school. And incidentally, the Tafari Makonnen school was, um, a Jesuit school.

[Assistant] Oh wow.

[User] And it was run by the Jesuits.

[Assistant] It should have been a good school.

[User] And it was a very, very good school. The children that were there were Ethiopian children, of course, from I guess some families that could afford to send their children there. Not only did it have, um, a business department, but there was a home economics department as well as your regular English, history, math, and science. So those children were getting a pretty good, I guess American or English background.

[Assistant] Those traditional studies as well.