[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yeah, I would say yes, it was. There was a, I keep saying fort. There was a military establishment there because that was very common in the provincial capitals.

[Assistant] Dominican?

[User] Yes, where you saw men with uniforms and guns and things of that nature. But yes, it was quiet.

[Assistant] And did anyone make political comments in your presence? Do you recall if you were, did people know you were an American?

[User] Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything.

[Assistant] How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, where you saw men with uniforms and guns and things of that nature. But yes, it was quiet.

[Assistant] And did anyone make political comments in your presence? Do you recall if you were, did people know you were an American?

[User] Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything.

[Assistant] How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?

[User] Oh yes, that was true.

[Assistant] Did you have a radio?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes, yes. And just once and it probably was more of a joke than anything else. But a son of the woman where we took our meals, yeah, had been to the capital city and evidently had been involved in some of this rebellion. And so I remember once, and I don't remember the context, but he said, go home Yankee. Which was a common, obviously common phrase in the capital, and on signs and everything else. But that was all and I didn't take it that seriously and everything.

[Assistant] How were you getting general news during your first year anyway? You went up to the Belgian mission and got the Newsweek or Time?

[User] Oh yes, that was true.

[Assistant] Did you have a radio?

[User] I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere.

[Assistant] And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes, that was true.

[Assistant] Did you have a radio?

[User] I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere.

[Assistant] And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?

[User] No.

[Assistant] On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had a radio that another volunteer. I don't think I had one to begin with because I think I got it from, well, maybe I did. I got it from another volunteer there in Neiba, bought it from him. But I can't recall that. Well, yeah, I could get at night an English language station from somewhere.

[Assistant] And you hadn't been advised not to use the radio?

[User] No.

[Assistant] On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about taking pictures?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] On the fear that someone would think it's a shortwave?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about taking pictures?

[User] No one had advised me from the Peace Corps not to take pictures. Yeah. But I began to gather that that probably wasn't always a good idea. But I didn't, I don't think I connected it at that time between them thinking I was a spy, although, or you know, or something of that nature. Because I don't think anybody was very sophisticated in those days about, oh my gosh, this American. But I mean, in terms of our group. But no one had ever said, don't, you know, be careful what pictures you take or be careful where you are with your camera. No.

[Assistant] So the area you were in was relatively stable?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How about taking pictures?

[User] No one had advised me from the Peace Corps not to take pictures. Yeah. But I began to gather that that probably wasn't always a good idea. But I didn't, I don't think I connected it at that time between them thinking I was a spy, although, or you know, or something of that nature. Because I don't think anybody was very sophisticated in those days about, oh my gosh, this American. But I mean, in terms of our group. But no one had ever said, don't, you know, be careful what pictures you take or be careful where you are with your camera. No.

[Assistant] So the area you were in was relatively stable?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK. By the end of the first year, did you take any vacation at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK. By the end of the first year, did you take any vacation at all?

[User] I never. Yes, I did go to Puerto Rico once, went back to Puerto Rico. And we, of course, couldn't come back to the United States, or were not supposed to. We could not come back to the United States. So I went to Puerto Rico once, and I believe I went back down into that southwest corner and visited my family, the family that I stayed with.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] And then several times in country, there was a favorite place that I would go. You take a public car to an area that was, it was green and verdant, and they grew strawberries and there was a motel there, hotel, that I could stay in and they had a sewing machine. And so I would frequently go up there and sew, you know, make clothes. Because I made, just because partly of necessity, I made a lot of my own clothes.

[Assistant] By within the first year, sometimes people get a friend from within the culture, within the environment they're working in, who sort of becomes the informant or the mentor, you know? Did that happen with you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] If it did, it probably was not any kind of deep friendship but.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] But let's say this one English class, the English class of the people from the center part of town, might advise me about, oh, don't go there. And I can remember one time when I was living in the first house. It had windows, not windows, but openings that with doors that you like a shutter that you pull shut and hook on the inside. And the son of the woman who. And I had those open one night. It was dark, but it wasn't late. And the son of the woman whose home that was came by and said that it was time to close, the time to close my doors. You know, was kind of looking out after me, you know, little things like that. But I would say that there was a young woman, her parents were from Taiwan, and they ran the little restaurant bakery right at the corner, right up there. Teresita was her name. And she had studied English before, and she wanted very badly to learn more. And she spoke, you know, she was in that English class.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know.

[Assistant] So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But let's say this one English class, the English class of the people from the center part of town, might advise me about, oh, don't go there. And I can remember one time when I was living in the first house. It had windows, not windows, but openings that with doors that you like a shutter that you pull shut and hook on the inside. And the son of the woman who. And I had those open one night. It was dark, but it wasn't late. And the son of the woman whose home that was came by and said that it was time to close, the time to close my doors. You know, was kind of looking out after me, you know, little things like that. But I would say that there was a young woman, her parents were from Taiwan, and they ran the little restaurant bakery right at the corner, right up there. Teresita was her name. And she had studied English before, and she wanted very badly to learn more. And she spoke, you know, she was in that English class.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know.

[Assistant] So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it.

[User] I sure could.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The in-town English class. And so she would tell me things. And some of the other, like the teachers that I got to know, would mention certain things. I'd get, you know.

[Assistant] So if you saw something that you didn't understand or puzzled you, you did have some people you could go to could ask about it.

[User] I sure could.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?

[User] Much, much improved. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I sure could.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, how was your Spanish?

[User] Much, much improved. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?

[User] I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Much, much improved. Yeah.

[Assistant] Do you recall if you had a sense of beginning to feel comfortable with the language?

[User] I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class.

[User] I had three different groups of them.

[Assistant] Three by then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can remember. It was like a light bulb came on when this promotora was saying something to me, and it was in some subjunctive case. And I can remember, oh, that's what she means.

[Assistant] By the end of the first year, what had you accomplished? You had the English as a Second Language class.

[User] I had three different groups of them.

[Assistant] Three by then?

[User] Yes, and two of them met in my house. So I'd had to have a blackboard made and had a table made, you know, things like that.

[Assistant] Where did you get the funds for that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and two of them met in my house. So I'd had to have a blackboard made and had a table made, you know, things like that.

[Assistant] Where did you get the funds for that?

[User] I don't remember if I just took them out of, you know, we got paid. We would go to, um, there was a. Where was that man? He had a business there and a business probably in more than one town, but dry goods, that sort of thing. And he would cash our checks.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway.

[Assistant] Were you writing home during this whole time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember if I just took them out of, you know, we got paid. We would go to, um, there was a. Where was that man? He had a business there and a business probably in more than one town, but dry goods, that sort of thing. And he would cash our checks.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway.

[Assistant] Were you writing home during this whole time?

[User] Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office.

[Assistant] Would you be able to call home if you wanted?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't remember how we got our checks. I can't remember if they came in the mail or what. But anyway.

[Assistant] Were you writing home during this whole time?

[User] Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office.

[Assistant] Would you be able to call home if you wanted?

[User] I never did. I never did.

[Assistant] Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. So letters were coming to me. So yes, I made regular trips to the post office.

[Assistant] Would you be able to call home if you wanted?

[User] I never did. I never did.

[Assistant] Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?

[User] Well, during those first months, I frequently. [tape break] Well, during that first, I don't know, probably six months, it was a matter of trying to decide where I could plug in, what was going on in town. What could I do? What should I do? How could I begin to understand if there was a niche? So I went back to the sewing school with some regularity to start with. Be there, see if there's anything I can do.

[Assistant] Was it a private school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I never did. I never did.

[Assistant] Now did you have any further connection during that first year with the sewing machine?

[User] Well, during those first months, I frequently. [tape break] Well, during that first, I don't know, probably six months, it was a matter of trying to decide where I could plug in, what was going on in town. What could I do? What should I do? How could I begin to understand if there was a niche? So I went back to the sewing school with some regularity to start with. Be there, see if there's anything I can do.

[Assistant] Was it a private school?

[User] It was a government school. That was my perception. This woman probably was being paid by the government. You know, and I began to notice, of course, that it wasn't always open when it was supposed to be. And you know, you begin to understand a little bit about my time frame in terms of punctuality and the little things that you know you don't even think about in terms of somebody says they're going to be somewhere at a certain time. You know, I expect them that they will, but you know, that didn't always happen. So that was part of the learning process too, of getting to know the culture. But I did go back there and I got to know some people there. I met some other people. I met another. I don't remember how I met this young woman, but she allowed me to come to her house and use her sewing machine. Didn't realize that sewing had such a lot to do with that first six months or so, but it seemed to have. It was an entree. You know, I got to know, I got to know some people.

[Assistant] And in sewing, were you trying to demonstrate or teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a government school. That was my perception. This woman probably was being paid by the government. You know, and I began to notice, of course, that it wasn't always open when it was supposed to be. And you know, you begin to understand a little bit about my time frame in terms of punctuality and the little things that you know you don't even think about in terms of somebody says they're going to be somewhere at a certain time. You know, I expect them that they will, but you know, that didn't always happen. So that was part of the learning process too, of getting to know the culture. But I did go back there and I got to know some people there. I met some other people. I met another. I don't remember how I met this young woman, but she allowed me to come to her house and use her sewing machine. Didn't realize that sewing had such a lot to do with that first six months or so, but it seemed to have. It was an entree. You know, I got to know, I got to know some people.

[Assistant] And in sewing, were you trying to demonstrate or teach?

[User] Part of the time when I went to this other girl's house that I'd gotten to know quite well. No, it was just, I was sewing for myself, for the most part. Something to do. And they felt like they were offering, you know, their sewing machine, which they were, of course. Because I didn't have one. And you know, I'd talk to them, sit and talk to them and try to listen and try to improve, you know, learn more Spanish and learn about the community. And so I remember, you know, doing that for for a while, going back to school.

[Assistant] Now were there, the other volunteers in town. Were any of them working on community development? I mean, did you bump up against them or were they just off on their own doing? I mean, I know you met them socially.

[User] Pretty much off on their own.

[Assistant] Doing what, do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Part of the time when I went to this other girl's house that I'd gotten to know quite well. No, it was just, I was sewing for myself, for the most part. Something to do. And they felt like they were offering, you know, their sewing machine, which they were, of course. Because I didn't have one. And you know, I'd talk to them, sit and talk to them and try to listen and try to improve, you know, learn more Spanish and learn about the community. And so I remember, you know, doing that for for a while, going back to school.

[Assistant] Now were there, the other volunteers in town. Were any of them working on community development? I mean, did you bump up against them or were they just off on their own doing? I mean, I know you met them socially.

[User] Pretty much off on their own.

[Assistant] Doing what, do you remember?

[User] Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities.

[Assistant] School development in the sense of building them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty much off on their own.

[Assistant] Doing what, do you remember?

[User] Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities.

[Assistant] School development in the sense of building them?

[User] Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly.

[Assistant] How did that come about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, two of them that were assigned to areas near there were working with school development, but they weren't actually in Neiba. They were out away from Neiba in smaller communities, very isolated communities.

[Assistant] School development in the sense of building them?

[User] Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly.

[Assistant] How did that come about?

[User] I have no idea.

[Assistant] Was that during the first year still?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Building a school. And they worked, some of them worked in tandem with a Dominican promotor, a male. And so again, gradually I ended up working with a Girl Scout group pretty regularly.

[Assistant] How did that come about?

[User] I have no idea.

[Assistant] Was that during the first year still?

[User] Probably started during that first year.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I have no idea.

[Assistant] Was that during the first year still?

[User] Probably started during that first year.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?

[User] We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days.

[Assistant] Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably started during that first year.

[Assistant] Was there any kind of break between the first year and the second year or any sort of calling in conference in the capital?

[User] We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days.

[Assistant] Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?

[User] No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen.

[Assistant] So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had periodic conferences, but I don't remember when they were, but we did have. We were called in, you know, and we went in for a few days.

[Assistant] Did you ever get any kind of sense of someone telling you that, well, you're making progress or some sense of goal setting that, you know, knowing that you were only going to be there two years?

[User] No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen.

[Assistant] So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well.

[User] Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books.

[Assistant] And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't think that, you know. No, that did not happen.

[Assistant] So what happened, in fact, is by being there and just bumping up against people in a sense and out of your own sense of your own skills and everything, you started the ESL. You worked with the sewing and now the Girl Scouts as well.

[User] Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books.

[Assistant] And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?

[User] These were Girl Scouts.

[Assistant] Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Worked with the Girl Scouts. And this was a group that had not been formed. And again, I can't, you know, probably word of mouth for these young women, young girls. We got uniforms and they all got their skirts and blouses. There was an English woman, Joyce. Joyce Megan, I believe it was something of that nature. Lived in the capital city and, you know, she may have visited Neiba and talked to me, but I don't recall. I know I went to her in the capital city. I went to her house and she would give me books.

[Assistant] And was it Girl Guides or Girl Scouts?

[User] These were Girl Scouts.

[Assistant] Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides.

[User] Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too.

[Assistant] Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] These were Girl Scouts.

[Assistant] Of course, the British equivalent is Girl Guides.

[User] Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too.

[Assistant] Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?

[User] No. No. These were just.

[Assistant] The kids showed up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And so, you know, the medals that they earned or whatever and the ceremony. In fact, I believe she came out to Neiba and did a ceremony. She spoke Spanish too.

[Assistant] Do you have any counterpart in the Scouts or any parent group or?

[User] No. No. These were just.

[Assistant] The kids showed up.

[User] And kids came and we did our activities.

[Assistant] And where was it? Where did this take place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No. These were just.

[Assistant] The kids showed up.

[User] And kids came and we did our activities.

[Assistant] And where was it? Where did this take place?

[User] In Neiba. And I'm trying to remember if they came to my house, I mean, I can't. They must have come to my house because we wouldn't have met in anybody else's house.

[Assistant] Was there any nearby school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And kids came and we did our activities.

[Assistant] And where was it? Where did this take place?

[User] In Neiba. And I'm trying to remember if they came to my house, I mean, I can't. They must have come to my house because we wouldn't have met in anybody else's house.

[Assistant] Was there any nearby school?

[User] Pardon me?

[Assistant] Was there any school nearby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pardon me?

[Assistant] Was there any school nearby?

[User] Yeah, but we didn't meet in the school.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] Pretty much, you know, I remember we did a field trip to the grape. There were some grape places, places that were growing grapes, vineyards. I remember visiting there. Now when I went back to the Dominican a couple of years ago, they were selling grapes in the square, in the plaza. So grapes must have taken hold. But I worked with the Girl Scouts and I got to know them and some of their parents, but not well. I mean, I don't think the extension wasn't there, you know.

[Assistant] It was the girls.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Pretty much, you know, I remember we did a field trip to the grape. There were some grape places, places that were growing grapes, vineyards. I remember visiting there. Now when I went back to the Dominican a couple of years ago, they were selling grapes in the square, in the plaza. So grapes must have taken hold. But I worked with the Girl Scouts and I got to know them and some of their parents, but not well. I mean, I don't think the extension wasn't there, you know.

[Assistant] It was the girls.

[User] Obviously, you know, in those days, well, I don't know. You know, I was four hours out of the capital. If there was any connection, I don't know where the next Girl Scout group troop would have been frankly. But so worked for the Girl Scouts. The first summer I believe, actually after a year, that next summer, I was asked to go to another area of the Dominican Republic for those two, let's say, two months, I don't know, six weeks, two months. And teach in a 4-H camp there that was run probably by the extension service. And so I think I did recreation and health.

[Assistant] Sports.

[User] Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that.

[Assistant] So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Obviously, you know, in those days, well, I don't know. You know, I was four hours out of the capital. If there was any connection, I don't know where the next Girl Scout group troop would have been frankly. But so worked for the Girl Scouts. The first summer I believe, actually after a year, that next summer, I was asked to go to another area of the Dominican Republic for those two, let's say, two months, I don't know, six weeks, two months. And teach in a 4-H camp there that was run probably by the extension service. And so I think I did recreation and health.

[Assistant] Sports.

[User] Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that.

[Assistant] So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. You know, regular, just calisthenics and that kind of thing, sports activities. Previous to that, somehow I had gotten connected for a short period of time with the Catholic school in Neiba, and there were nuns. One young nun in particular who was in charge, actually. So I did some recreation there too. They wanted some games for their students, and so we did that. So that was another, you know, here's the American and I could go here and I can do that.

[Assistant] So did you begin to have a pretty full schedule?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy.

[User] Probably overextended. But then I think that's often the case when you're trying to find a reason for being there too, you know. And then there was no overall plan. You know, there was sometimes you got the sense of they just wanted to you here as a presence, you know, as a friendly American presence.

[Assistant] “They” being Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] It sounds to me like your days and evenings probably were quite busy.

[User] Probably overextended. But then I think that's often the case when you're trying to find a reason for being there too, you know. And then there was no overall plan. You know, there was sometimes you got the sense of they just wanted to you here as a presence, you know, as a friendly American presence.

[Assistant] “They” being Peace Corps?

[User] Peace Corps. Exactly. Yeah. And um.

[Assistant] No one from Peace Corps tried to move you toward some specific.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Peace Corps. Exactly. Yeah. And um.

[Assistant] No one from Peace Corps tried to move you toward some specific.

[User] No. Although it must have been Peace Corps. Somehow that put me in connection with this 4-H.

[Assistant] Well, yeah.

[User] They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service.

[Assistant] Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Although it must have been Peace Corps. Somehow that put me in connection with this 4-H.

[Assistant] Well, yeah.

[User] They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service.

[Assistant] Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?

[User] Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not.

[Assistant] We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They had some sense that they needed. They needed something. They needed somebody up there to do this. And so I spent some time in that area and it was fun. That was good. Got to know some other younger Dominicans. Well, maybe Dominicans my age who were working with the extension service and you know, the government extension service.

[Assistant] Now as you're in your second year, I mean, you begin to see that your tour is coming to an end. What was your evaluation of what you had done and what you would leave? I mean, was any of that at play?

[User] Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not.

[Assistant] We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word.

[User] Probably not. I do think there was some sense of, well, partly just being tired because you didn't have a sense of any progress, you know? And you probably don't in community development, except if you stay there for a long time or unless you develop a plan of action.

[Assistant] So as you're in your second year, there wasn't one specific project you were going to try to nail down so that you, you know, by the end, you can say, well, I did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think probably my sense was sometimes there was a futility involved because it was like I'd done all these little things out here. But what was the overall picture? You know, what was the connection? I had done some. I taught health, you know, in small groups. But you know, was it just one on one? Was there anything that you could string together? And probably not. Probably not.

[Assistant] We're going back to the original model of needs assessment and getting the community involved. Did you berate yourself about that? Berate may be the wrong word.

[User] Probably not. I do think there was some sense of, well, partly just being tired because you didn't have a sense of any progress, you know? And you probably don't in community development, except if you stay there for a long time or unless you develop a plan of action.

[Assistant] So as you're in your second year, there wasn't one specific project you were going to try to nail down so that you, you know, by the end, you can say, well, I did.

[User] I did this, huh? Probably not. Although I did end up going around some with this Dominican promotora. And I think she was working on some school, wanting to promote schools, but she didn't get very far. I mean, I think probably because the resources were so poor there, so lacking, and the government didn't have any more. Although the United States has been very involved with that country for a long time through USAID and aid. U.S. aid. So I think that they probably were supporting the community development program frankly.

[Assistant] As you're in the second year coming near the end, were you at all tempted to extend?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did this, huh? Probably not. Although I did end up going around some with this Dominican promotora. And I think she was working on some school, wanting to promote schools, but she didn't get very far. I mean, I think probably because the resources were so poor there, so lacking, and the government didn't have any more. Although the United States has been very involved with that country for a long time through USAID and aid. U.S. aid. So I think that they probably were supporting the community development program frankly.

[Assistant] As you're in the second year coming near the end, were you at all tempted to extend?

[User] No, I don't recall that I was.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I don't recall that I was.

[Assistant] Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't recall that I was.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I don't recall that I was.

[Assistant] Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?

[User] Hmm, I don't recall that. No, I don't remember that they did.

[Assistant] So how did your service sort of wind down?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't recall that I was.

[Assistant] Were there people who had trained with you and come over with you that, did anyone in the group try to extend your?

[User] Hmm, I don't recall that. No, I don't remember that they did.

[Assistant] So how did your service sort of wind down?

[User] Well, another one of those trips to the capital city, of course, and it was sad leaving because I gotten to know so many people.

[Assistant] How was your Spanish at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, another one of those trips to the capital city, of course, and it was sad leaving because I gotten to know so many people.

[Assistant] How was your Spanish at that point?

[User] A lot better. I mean, we did have a test, you know, as we left.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam.

[Assistant] And you don't remember what level you got?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A lot better. I mean, we did have a test, you know, as we left.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam.

[Assistant] And you don't remember what level you got?

[User] Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure.

[Assistant] I would hope so, yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Had a U.S. Foreign Service exam.

[Assistant] And you don't remember what level you got?

[User] Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure.

[Assistant] I would hope so, yeah.

[User] That's for sure. That's for sure.

[Assistant] And of your group, do you know if many left before the end of their tour, early terminations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Don't remember what level I got to, but certainly several above what it was when I went into country, that's for sure.

[Assistant] I would hope so, yeah.

[User] That's for sure. That's for sure.

[Assistant] And of your group, do you know if many left before the end of their tour, early terminations?

[User] One girl did, I remember. You know what's interesting? I hardly ever saw the girls in my group again. I really got to know people from other groups that came in, maybe right after we did, or maybe some that were assigned down to that south, in that southwest corner. I don't ever remember, even we must have when we got together, I must have seen these people. You know, I just don't. I must not have connected emotionally or any other way to them that I recall them.

[Assistant] Do you recall at the, during your second year, approximately how many volunteers were in the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One girl did, I remember. You know what's interesting? I hardly ever saw the girls in my group again. I really got to know people from other groups that came in, maybe right after we did, or maybe some that were assigned down to that south, in that southwest corner. I don't ever remember, even we must have when we got together, I must have seen these people. You know, I just don't. I must not have connected emotionally or any other way to them that I recall them.

[Assistant] Do you recall at the, during your second year, approximately how many volunteers were in the country?

[User] I don't. Our group became very small. I would say we started out with 28. We were probably down to less than 15.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And some of those left, of course, in Puerto Rico. Some of them maybe decided themselves to leave.

[Assistant] But there was for you anyway, and probably maybe for the others, there wasn't a strong group sense.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't. Our group became very small. I would say we started out with 28. We were probably down to less than 15.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And some of those left, of course, in Puerto Rico. Some of them maybe decided themselves to leave.

[Assistant] But there was for you anyway, and probably maybe for the others, there wasn't a strong group sense.

[User] No, there was not.

[Assistant] You know, we're Dominican Republic VI and we're going to make it kind of thing.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, there was not.

[Assistant] You know, we're Dominican Republic VI and we're going to make it kind of thing.

[User] There was not.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody.

[Assistant] There are various reasons for that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was not.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody.

[Assistant] There are various reasons for that.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You finished. You left the village with some sadness.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And in talking to my husband about his group, I realized that they had a strong group sense. They rallied for everybody.

[Assistant] There are various reasons for that.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You finished. You left the village with some sadness.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] You finished. You left the village with some sadness.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?

[User] Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago.

[Assistant] In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you do a self-assessment of what you had achieved?

[User] Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago.

[Assistant] In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years.

[User] Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American.

[Assistant] And you felt that was part of your being there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably just for myself. I'm sure I did, and I'd probably continue to do that, as you know, as I reflect on that. And I did go back a couple of years ago.

[Assistant] In effect, I'm asking in leaving, did you feel satisfied with yourself for what you had accomplished in two years? I mean, you made it for two years.

[User] Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American.

[Assistant] And you felt that was part of your being there.

[User] That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers.

[Assistant] And the Girl Scouts.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. If that was my goal, to stay there for two years, I certainly made it. I didn't make any major enemies. I think I gave them a fairly positive impression of an American.

[Assistant] And you felt that was part of your being there.

[User] That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers.

[Assistant] And the Girl Scouts.

[User] The Girl Scouts, the priests.

[Assistant] And now when you finish, I guess there's a conference in the capital.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was part of my being there during that period of time. I got to know people from, again, a broad spectrum of community from, you know, from kids that we had the parasite campaign to, you know, the teachers.

[Assistant] And the Girl Scouts.

[User] The Girl Scouts, the priests.

[Assistant] And now when you finish, I guess there's a conference in the capital.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What were your plans beyond?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What were your plans beyond?

[User] Well, somewhere I had been told or been asked to consider going into a, being part of the staff of a training program for those that were going back to the Dominican.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican.

[Assistant] To the Dominican Republic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, somewhere I had been told or been asked to consider going into a, being part of the staff of a training program for those that were going back to the Dominican.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican.

[Assistant] To the Dominican Republic?

[User] So I was part of that training program.

[Assistant] Was it the first teaching program to go there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I ended up going back to Iowa first, but I think I already had lined up this three or four month job in California, where there were training teachers to go back to the Dominican.

[Assistant] To the Dominican Republic?

[User] So I was part of that training program.

[Assistant] Was it the first teaching program to go there?

[User] You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very.

[Assistant] Were there hundreds in the training program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was part of that training program.

[Assistant] Was it the first teaching program to go there?

[User] You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very.

[Assistant] Were there hundreds in the training program?

[User] No, no, not that one.

[Assistant] Where did they train?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, it might have been. It was a big deal. You know, I remember it being a very.

[Assistant] Were there hundreds in the training program?

[User] No, no, not that one.

[Assistant] Where did they train?

[User] At San Diego State University in California.

[Assistant] And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, not that one.

[Assistant] Where did they train?

[User] At San Diego State University in California.

[Assistant] And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?

[User] But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At San Diego State University in California.

[Assistant] And you had a fair amount of teaching experience?

[User] But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?

[User] There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Or the women separately, perhaps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I didn't have formal teaching, but what they wanted was somebody who'd been in country, a volunteer, who knew something about the culture or something about the history, learning about what it was like to live there.

[Assistant] Were you asked to do formal lectures or you just would hang around and let people talk to you?

[User] There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Or the women separately, perhaps.

[User] Yeah, that could have been it too.

[Assistant] When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a lot of one on ones, but I did do some talking to the group at the same time. Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Or the women separately, perhaps.

[User] Yeah, that could have been it too.

[Assistant] When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?

[User] Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was.

[Assistant] Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that could have been it too.

[Assistant] When you first went back to Iowa, was it a triumphal return?

[User] Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was.

[Assistant] Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?

[User] Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point.

[Assistant] Did you talk to church groups?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. But a lot of culture shock in terms of, oh my gosh, look at all we have here. Look at all the, you know, over choice that we have, all the things that there are. But yeah, it was good. It was.

[Assistant] Just take the initial period back. Did you feel that you could begin to explain the Dominican Republic to the people within your community?

[User] Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point.

[Assistant] Did you talk to church groups?

[User] I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides.

[Assistant] With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, up to a point. Yeah. Up to a point.

[Assistant] Did you talk to church groups?

[User] I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides.

[Assistant] With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?

[User] Not after that, no.

[Assistant] And you were satisfied with what you had done?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. Not a lot, but I did talk to several groups and had slides and things like that. So I had some slides.

[Assistant] With the working in San Diego for the training program, was there any further connection with Peace Corps? You weren't invited to become a staff member?

[User] Not after that, no.

[Assistant] And you were satisfied with what you had done?

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What happened next?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] What happened next?

[User] Well, again, I don't recall where this offer came from or if there was a list. Or anyway, I ended up taking a job in Laredo, Texas, with the Laredo Webb County Health Department as a health educator.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. With their migrant program.

[Assistant] So you needed to use your Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, again, I don't recall where this offer came from or if there was a list. Or anyway, I ended up taking a job in Laredo, Texas, with the Laredo Webb County Health Department as a health educator.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah. With their migrant program.

[Assistant] So you needed to use your Spanish?

[User] Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it.

[Assistant] Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. With their migrant program.

[Assistant] So you needed to use your Spanish?

[User] Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it.

[Assistant] Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic.

[User] I mean, oh, it probably won't be at this time of the day. Yeah, well, certainly. I haven't reflected on that actual question for a long time, but because it's so much a part of me now, so much, you know, my experience of being in another country and seeing certainly one, and I was never the same since that time. But being outside of my own culture, seeing how other people live, and living there myself. Just being having my eyes open to the world, because again, when you're 21, 22, your eyes really aren't open and there's no. You believe that they are, but they're not, you know. It's just a matter of living. And um, as I said, I've never been the same. I've never seen things the same since that time.

[Assistant] Did you have any continuing involvement with Dominican Republic or with international programs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. And I did. And it got better. And so I worked in health education there, particularly in the tuberculosis program, because they had, it was one of their major campaigns in the health department there and loved it.

[Assistant] Then through the years, what do you think was the influence of your Peace Corps service on you and the choices you made beyond? It doesn't have to be cosmic.

[User] I mean, oh, it probably won't be at this time of the day. Yeah, well, certainly. I haven't reflected on that actual question for a long time, but because it's so much a part of me now, so much, you know, my experience of being in another country and seeing certainly one, and I was never the same since that time. But being outside of my own culture, seeing how other people live, and living there myself. Just being having my eyes open to the world, because again, when you're 21, 22, your eyes really aren't open and there's no. You believe that they are, but they're not, you know. It's just a matter of living. And um, as I said, I've never been the same. I've never seen things the same since that time.

[Assistant] Did you have any continuing involvement with Dominican Republic or with international programs?

[User] Only in the sense that I've always supported financially programs that were either part of the church, for example, that were helping, or things of that nature where I could help financially.

[Assistant] And you married a returned volunteer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Only in the sense that I've always supported financially programs that were either part of the church, for example, that were helping, or things of that nature where I could help financially.

[Assistant] And you married a returned volunteer.

[User] Well actually, this is my second marriage.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my.

[Assistant] And you kept your facility in Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well actually, this is my second marriage.

[Assistant] Oh, okay.

[User] So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my.

[Assistant] And you kept your facility in Spanish?

[User] Yes. I sure did. And um, during that time, I taught English as a Second Language in a Methodist school there in Laredo and um, taught. Let's see. I did some other work, you know, volunteer work and ended up getting a degree, my master's in psychology and counseling, went into counseling.

[Assistant] What went into the return trip? You've only been back once to the Dominican Republic?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So my first marriage was to a Methodist minister. So then I spent 16 years of my life, uh, moving around in Texas, um, being minister's wife and doing the kinds of things that ministers' wives do and getting involved. And I was very involved in social concerns, that was my really my.

[Assistant] And you kept your facility in Spanish?

[User] Yes. I sure did. And um, during that time, I taught English as a Second Language in a Methodist school there in Laredo and um, taught. Let's see. I did some other work, you know, volunteer work and ended up getting a degree, my master's in psychology and counseling, went into counseling.

[Assistant] What went into the return trip? You've only been back once to the Dominican Republic?

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] How did it come about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] How did it come about?

[User] It was a Peace Corps reunion. Let's see. Was it 40 years Peace Corps had been in country? Anyway, it was all groups were invited back.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a Peace Corps reunion. Let's see. Was it 40 years Peace Corps had been in country? Anyway, it was all groups were invited back.

[Assistant] Oh, OK.

[User] So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?

[User] Yes. They've been there and still are there.

[Assistant] And you had a chance to go back to your village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it wasn't, I didn't go by myself. I went as a group, but I went to the country to meet with others. And so it was a conference. So we got to meet the Dominican president and.

[Assistant] And Peace Corps had stayed in Dominican Republic all through the years?

[User] Yes. They've been there and still are there.

[Assistant] And you had a chance to go back to your village?

[User] I went back, yes, by myself.

[Assistant] Did anyone remember you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went back, yes, by myself.

[Assistant] Did anyone remember you?

[User] They did! And I remembered them, and they remembered me.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience.

[Assistant] Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They did! And I remembered them, and they remembered me.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience.

[Assistant] Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?

[User] I don't think so right now. I do remember a real funny incident way back before I went to the Peace Corps. You know, I wasn't aware of that my neighbors were being interviewed about my character.

[Assistant] Oh, the FBI background checks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And tracked down the family that I had eaten with, had spent time with, you know, their children, I watched them for two years, and tracked them down in the capital city. And got to talk to them. And yeah, it was, uh, it's a little overwhelming, of course, when you go back and you see how things have changed and you realize, you know, even in Neiba how things have changed. But hey, that's normal. That was probably what, 40, 35 or 40 years that I'd left there. So um yeah. But it was a good experience.

[Assistant] Anything else you'd like to mention about your service or?

[User] I don't think so right now. I do remember a real funny incident way back before I went to the Peace Corps. You know, I wasn't aware of that my neighbors were being interviewed about my character.

[Assistant] Oh, the FBI background checks.

[User] Yes, and they went to our near neighbor, the next farm. And I think he asked Dad afterwards, why were they asking all those questions about your daughter? You know, I thought it was real, it was real funny. And Dad thought it was too, that they were asking all those personal questions about character and what I was involved with and all that. So I can't think of anything, Bob, right now.

[Assistant] OK, we can stop.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we were able to load more propellant in the tanks. I don’t think we had to make the tanks any bigger. I think we already had enough capacity in the tanks. We added batteries, made that bigger, and took more consumables with us. We also modified the stowage bays in the descent stage. We had to outfit one specifically for the lunar roving vehicle, which folded up into the stowage compartment, and make some of the others bigger so they could take more scientific equipment. So they weren’t major changes, but it was all aimed at increasing the stay time and the return carry capacity.

[Assistant] With these last few missions, was your concentration then on Apollo, or were you looking to some other things then at that point?

[User] Well, I personally was off the program by then. I was involved with our Space Shuttle activities. We were getting ready to propose on the Space Shuttle and did propose on the Space Shuttle. But I kept in touch with the mission up at the Bethpage Mission Control Center. We used to work on the anomalies, they called them, that occurred in flight, anything that was outside the ordinary. We were getting fewer and fewer anomalies as the missions went on, but we tried to explain every one of them when corrections were required.

[Assistant] Did you also have anything to do with the studies or thoughts about using the LM for some other purposes, either through modifying it for different types of missions on the surface or, say, using the LM for the Skylab as part of the Apollo Telescope Mount, any of those kinds of activities?

[User] We had a small group that was looking at that kind of thing, but it wasn’t part of the basic LM program.

[Assistant] Since, as you said, you’d moved to the Space Shuttle Program by this point, I’d like to talk a little bit about the Shuttle and some of Grumman’s early work in studies for the Space Shuttle.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was, yes. By that time I was head of engineering for the whole company, so I was in charge of the engineering work on all our projects and that was one of them.\n\n I felt bad about the Shuttle, because I thought we had done an outstanding job on the LM and we hadn’t gotten into any big problems like North American had, and yet here they were walking off with the big prize. I never really was satisfied with that.

[Assistant] I guess North American’s, to some degree their experience there, just like with the Apollo, having gotten that after getting the X-15, I'm sure played a role in NASA’s selection there.

[User] Right. And NASA had gotten very closely involved with North American after the fire, because they had to go in there in force to Downey [California] and help them work their way out of the problem, and in the process, the NASA people sort of became subsumed into North American people, or at least that’s the way it seemed to me. So for whatever reason, we didn’t get the really big prize, but we did get a piece of it.

[Assistant] After that point, did you continue to have some involvement with the space program?

[User] Yes, as part of the engineering activities, but Grumman was getting less and less work in space and more and more in the advanced airplanes, so I got more involved with the aircraft activity. But we still had space work going. We had some work for the Air Force, study work. We participated to some extent in the Sky Lab Program. We proposed on a lot of stuff in space, but we weren’t outstandingly successful. We didn’t get too much of that.

[Assistant] As you take a look back on your involvement with NASA, what do you think the biggest challenge you faced was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yes, but, you know, it could be more of a problem than that.\n\n We did have one problem that was a real quality problem that was on Shepard’s flight, where we had what looked like a loose solder ball inside the abort stage switch. That was a bear, because we had to find a way to neutralize that or we were going to have to abort the mission. Fortunately, MIT came up with a set of simple instructions that told the computer to ignore what this abort stage switch was telling it, and the astronauts were able to plug that into the computer, and we just went ahead with the mission. But that was a quality-control problem that we should have caught. It was a not uncommon problem, because the instruments were all hermetically sealed and they were evacuated before they sealed them. They sealed them with solder, and sometimes a little bit of the extra solder would get sucked in and you’d have a solder ball floating around inside. They could usually detect that in the factory by shaking it and listening and looking, but this one got through the whole thing without ever being detected. So that was kind of scary.

[Assistant] You mentioned on Apollo 11 the frozen plug in the fuel line. What did you do for later missions, or did you change anything to try and prevent that from happening again?

[User] Yes, we changed the procedures. It was a very simple procedural change where we didn’t vent the propellant tank right away. It was because we had vented the propellant tank right after landing that allowed flow through that heat exchanger that caused the freeze-up. So just by not doing that right away, we were able to avoid that whole problem from then on. So it was a very detailed procedural change.

[Assistant] Sounds like it was a successful one.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.

I actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\n\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we changed the procedures. It was a very simple procedural change where we didn’t vent the propellant tank right away. It was because we had vented the propellant tank right after landing that allowed flow through that heat exchanger that caused the freeze-up. So just by not doing that right away, we were able to avoid that whole problem from then on. So it was a very detailed procedural change.

[Assistant] Sounds like it was a successful one.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.

I actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\n\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about.

[User] How’s Andy doing these days?

[Assistant] He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant]
That’s all the questions that I have. Thank you.

I actually had just a couple follow-ups of my own, some stuff I wanted to go back on.\n\n Last week we were talking with Andy [Andrew] Hobokan about some of his work there. He mentioned a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about.

[User] How’s Andy doing these days?

[Assistant] He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us.

[User] Good.

[Assistant] One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How’s Andy doing these days?

[Assistant] He seems to be doing pretty well. He had a good time coming in and talking with us.

[User] Good.

[Assistant] One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that.

[User] I don’t know about that one.

[Assistant] According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Good.

[Assistant] One of the first things, I guess, was just kind of a funny story he told about a squirrel getting into the white room where the LMs were being prepared at one time. I wanted to see what you remember of that.

[User] I don’t know about that one.

[Assistant] According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard.

[User] Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen.

[Assistant] One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know about that one.

[Assistant] According to him, anyway, a squirrel had gotten into the white room and was shot by a security guard.

[User] Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen.

[Assistant] One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that.

[User] We had a failure during a pressure test of the cabin. I think it might have been LM-5, where the glass actually broke, and that scared the hell out of us. So we did some redesign on the mounting to be more sure that we weren’t applying any stress to the glass when we locked it into position. We also worked with Corning to develop a stronger, more crack-resistance glass, and we did substitute that improved glass. So, yes, we were worried about glass. I never liked glass as a structural material. You couldn’t analyze it. It’s an amorphous kind of thing.

[Assistant] You certainly got rid of as much as you could there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Really? I never heard about that. But I don’t doubt it. It certainly could happen.

[Assistant] One of the other things he talked about was a problem with the glass for the windows. I guess there were some issues with some of them cracking. I wanted to see what you recall of that.

[User] We had a failure during a pressure test of the cabin. I think it might have been LM-5, where the glass actually broke, and that scared the hell out of us. So we did some redesign on the mounting to be more sure that we weren’t applying any stress to the glass when we locked it into position. We also worked with Corning to develop a stronger, more crack-resistance glass, and we did substitute that improved glass. So, yes, we were worried about glass. I never liked glass as a structural material. You couldn’t analyze it. It’s an amorphous kind of thing.

[Assistant] You certainly got rid of as much as you could there.

[User] Yes. It’s a good thing we did, because even with just that simple flat panel, we still had cause for concern. If we ever had a big curved dome or something, we would have gone nuts.

[Assistant] Just one last thing, I guess, to provide clarification. You had said that you were the Chief Engineer for the LM. What was your job description and the area of responsibilities that were uniquely yours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] My wife Tori and I had just gotten married. We graduated in June, we got married in August, and we packed up the back of our yellow Pinto station wagon—

[Assistant] [interposing] What year was the Pinto?

[User] This was 1976. The Pinto was 1974. The Pinto was, of course, the famous exploding car. But obviously, we managed to survive two Pintos, actually. We put all our earthly belongings in the back of the Pinto station wagon, and drove out to Iowa City, where we lived for the next eight years. Initially, my wife was pursuing a Master’s degree in statistics there, and I got a job selling men’s clothing at a Montgomery Ward department store for a year. Then, I applied to graduate school, and got into several graduate schools. But in the end, we really liked Iowa City, and decided to stay there.

[Assistant] That’s great. So Iowa City in 1977. What was the town like?

[User] It was a terrific place to go—

[Assistant] [interposing] Master’s or Ph.D.?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was my first day at the National Archives.

[Assistant] So this was pre-College Park, right?

[User] Yes. There were offices in Alexandria—the Cartographic, the Nixon Project, and some motion picture storage. And then there was the Suitland National Records Center, which also at that point not only had records center material, but also it was an archival branch, with a lot of modern military records there. And there were other scattered offices, like the Personnel Office, the Federal Register was on Farragut Square, or one of the squares nearby, and NHPRC had rented space. There were kind of little pods of the Archives all over the place, which is one of the reasons why we needed to have Archives II.

[Assistant] So, that was your first day at the National Archives, and what about your second day? What about the next, I guess—

[User] [interposing] Twenty-nine years?

[Assistant] Well, yeah, it looks like you were at the Cartographic and Architectural branch for three years—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I had, uh, my husband and I had gotten married in August, and I was working, volunteering at a Head Start center in Santa Barbara. And he was facing a, um, possible draft notice. And this was in 1966. And he was actually told to go down to Los Angeles and to report at a draft, it might have been an induction center, I'm not sure. And they took a look at a scar on his arm that he'd had surgery on when he was a baby, and then again later as a teenager. And it had left this kind of indented scar. It was nothing serious. I think it was maybe a benign tumor or something that he'd been born with. But the doctors at this induction center looked at it and they said, you're not eligible for the service.

In the meantime, while all of this was looming, I had noticed a, um, an ad, an announcement, maybe in the newspaper, for a test in the basement of the Santa Barbara Post Office for the Peace Corps. And so I had suggested that we go and take the test just in case. And so we had done, we had completed the test. And then this news came that he was not going to be eligible for the draft. And lo and behold, we got a call from, I guess, Washington, D.C., that a group was staging in Philadelphia, end of February, for Honduras. They were going to go and train in Puerto Rico. And did we want to go? We looked at each other and said yes.

[Assistant] Well, from the time you took the test in the basement until the time you got that offer, what length of time had?

[User] Hardly any.

[Assistant] That's most unusual.

[User] It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we.

[Assistant] Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Hardly any.

[Assistant] That's most unusual.

[User] It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we.

[Assistant] Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?

[User] No, we didn't.

[Assistant] So you were open to going anywhere?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was very strange. And now when I see these 18 page applications that volunteers have to fill in, I'm just astounded how, the ease with which we.

[Assistant] Did you specify that you wanted a Latin American assignment?

[User] No, we didn't.

[Assistant] So you were open to going anywhere?

[User] Anywhere.

[Assistant] Did you speak Spanish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we didn't.

[Assistant] So you were open to going anywhere?

[User] Anywhere.

[Assistant] Did you speak Spanish?

[User] No, I didn't.

[Assistant] Did your husband?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Anywhere.

[Assistant] Did you speak Spanish?

[User] No, I didn't.

[Assistant] Did your husband?

[User] He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it.

[Assistant] So the. You took the test, what month?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't.

[Assistant] Did your husband?

[User] He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it.

[Assistant] So the. You took the test, what month?

[User] It could have been November, something like that.

[Assistant] And the invitation came?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He had had Spanish in school. I had had French and Latin. The first Spanish I had was in Puerto Rico in the training camp. And I loved it.

[Assistant] So the. You took the test, what month?

[User] It could have been November, something like that.

[Assistant] And the invitation came?

[User] In I think early February. Late January, early February.

[Assistant] Like three months?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It could have been November, something like that.

[Assistant] And the invitation came?

[User] In I think early February. Late January, early February.

[Assistant] Like three months?

[User] Yeah, something like that. And we were gone.

[Assistant] What about medical?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In I think early February. Late January, early February.

[Assistant] Like three months?

[User] Yeah, something like that. And we were gone.

[Assistant] What about medical?

[User] We were gone by the end of February.

[Assistant] Cause often that trips people up. What about medical, do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They just flew. The only thing that we did for medical is we went to our dentist and had the full mouth dental x-ray for identification purposes.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] If anything, you know, ever came to that. So the only medical thing that we did here, we did all of our medical happened in training.

[Assistant] In training.

[User] All of our injections and.

[Assistant] And your training took place?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Camp Crozier, Puerto Rico.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Puerto Rico. And I had in a classroom not too long ago, a former volunteer from Costa Rica came and spoke to my students and she said she was in the same training camp. But a few years before we were.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience.

[Assistant] But that was not true for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Puerto Rico. And I had in a classroom not too long ago, a former volunteer from Costa Rica came and spoke to my students and she said she was in the same training camp. But a few years before we were.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience.

[Assistant] But that was not true for you?

[User] Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um.

[Assistant] How long was your training program?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And they were just focusing on Outward Bound and she was miserable. She just nearly went home. She said that training was the worst part of the entire experience.

[Assistant] But that was not true for you?

[User] Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um.

[Assistant] How long was your training program?

[User] Three months.

[Assistant] A three month training. And all of it was in Puerto Rico?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not true for us at all. They'd shifted from Outward Bound to community development. Heavy focus on language. We had, um.

[Assistant] How long was your training program?

[User] Three months.

[Assistant] A three month training. And all of it was in Puerto Rico?

[User] All of it in Camp Crozier. And I think that the name Crozier, he was the first volunteer to be killed in action, C-R-O-Z-I-E-R. His first name might have been David. I'm not entirely sure. It was in a rainforest in the southern part of Puerto Rico. And I loved it. We had a little bit of animal husbandry. We had community development techniques. We had a lot of language. We had three experiences out in the field where we were given the name of a barrio somewhere. We had to find it on the map. We had a general drop off location and from there we had to make our way out to the site that we were given and find some family that would take us in. And we had three visits out there and we were, um, the staff of the, the trainers came and made visits to all of us in our sites where we were sent so they could see if we would, if we looked like good, resourceful Peace Corps material.

[Assistant] So you had to go out and find a family to live with? And how long did you live or stay with them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All of it in Camp Crozier. And I think that the name Crozier, he was the first volunteer to be killed in action, C-R-O-Z-I-E-R. His first name might have been David. I'm not entirely sure. It was in a rainforest in the southern part of Puerto Rico. And I loved it. We had a little bit of animal husbandry. We had community development techniques. We had a lot of language. We had three experiences out in the field where we were given the name of a barrio somewhere. We had to find it on the map. We had a general drop off location and from there we had to make our way out to the site that we were given and find some family that would take us in. And we had three visits out there and we were, um, the staff of the, the trainers came and made visits to all of us in our sites where we were sent so they could see if we would, if we looked like good, resourceful Peace Corps material.

[Assistant] So you had to go out and find a family to live with? And how long did you live or stay with them?

[User] I think the first time was a couple of days and it may have been two visits that we made, but I'm thinking it was three.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And so by the time we were done with that, we were all great friends.

[Assistant] How was your language development at that point?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was the stage where you understand way more than you.

[Assistant] Can say?

[User] Can say.

[Assistant] Yeah. Okay.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Okay. So your training included not these home stays on a, on an ongoing basis, but short home stays with a family that you yourself found.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] Okay. So your training included not these home stays on a, on an ongoing basis, but short home stays with a family that you yourself found.

[User] Uh huh. That we went and asked if we could come and stay. Explained that we were training for the Peace Corps, that this was part of our training. And, you know, could we be of any help around the homestead type of thing?

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] Yeah. We found a nice lady that took us in and was happy to see us come back.

[Assistant] Okay. So what else do you remember from those months of training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh huh. That we went and asked if we could come and stay. Explained that we were training for the Peace Corps, that this was part of our training. And, you know, could we be of any help around the homestead type of thing?

[Assistant] Okay. Okay.

[User] Yeah. We found a nice lady that took us in and was happy to see us come back.

[Assistant] Okay. So what else do you remember from those months of training?

[User] We were divided into groups for our community development training, and what they did was they gave each group a pregnant sow. And so we were in charge of overseeing the delivery of these little piglets and castrating the males. And, um, I'm not sure if we had to organize for the sale of the piglets, but it turned out that the sow that we were given turned on her piglets. And so we had to take them away and put them with another sow that was willing to nurse them. And so that was kind of interesting.

[Assistant] That's, that is. How many people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were divided into groups for our community development training, and what they did was they gave each group a pregnant sow. And so we were in charge of overseeing the delivery of these little piglets and castrating the males. And, um, I'm not sure if we had to organize for the sale of the piglets, but it turned out that the sow that we were given turned on her piglets. And so we had to take them away and put them with another sow that was willing to nurse them. And so that was kind of interesting.

[Assistant] That's, that is. How many people?

[User] She was out of sorts.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Maybe 80 people.

[Assistant] In your training program? And they were all being trained to go to Honduras in community development?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Maybe 80 people.

[Assistant] In your training program? And they were all being trained to go to Honduras in community development?

[User] Honduras VIII. We were the eighth group to go to Honduras. And we had some technical city planners, but most of the people were rural CD, rural community development.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down.

[Assistant] Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Honduras VIII. We were the eighth group to go to Honduras. And we had some technical city planners, but most of the people were rural CD, rural community development.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down.

[Assistant] Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?

[User] Yeah, deselection, that's what it.

[Assistant] In those days, yeah, right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was fun. We bonded. We went, after the three months in Honduras [Puerto Rico], we went to Miami for a few days and regrouped. And from there we flew down.

[Assistant] Right. What do you remember about the selection process or the deselection process?

[User] Yeah, deselection, that's what it.

[Assistant] In those days, yeah, right.

[User] Absolutely. I think that most of the people went. I remember a few people were deselected and not sure why. And I remember one single girl and I don't know if they were concerned for her safety or what the issue was, but she really wanted to go and she wasn't able to. We had an engaged couple who got married while they were in the training camp right there in Puerto Rico. And, um. Yeah. Jan Russell and Vince Morabito. Jan and Vince Morabito, by the time they left.

[Assistant] What were your, what was your housing like during training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, deselection, that's what it.

[Assistant] In those days, yeah, right.

[User] Absolutely. I think that most of the people went. I remember a few people were deselected and not sure why. And I remember one single girl and I don't know if they were concerned for her safety or what the issue was, but she really wanted to go and she wasn't able to. We had an engaged couple who got married while they were in the training camp right there in Puerto Rico. And, um. Yeah. Jan Russell and Vince Morabito. Jan and Vince Morabito, by the time they left.

[Assistant] What were your, what was your housing like during training?

[User] We had little cabins that were thin walled and they were complete with little geckos on the wall. And I was not friendly with lizards or any of that, so I had to get used to that. Lots of rain. But it was fun. It was, it was just.

[Assistant] As you reflect back on it, do you feel that the training was appropriate for the circumstances that you would later find yourself in?