[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I would say dumelang, which is just hello. And they'd say, dumelang, madam. They would call me madam. Yes. And I would say, le phela jwang, which means, how are you? How are you all? And they would say, [speaks Sesotho], or we're good, you know, [speaks Sesotho]. How are you? And I would say, [speaks Sesotho]. I'm good. Because, of course, greetings were very important.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So or I would say it in English too, sometimes. But really at the beginning I did it in Sesotho. And I structured my classes so that I would have a warmup and we would go through the English curriculum that was already set up. So I would base my lessons on, on that information.

[Assistant] Students had textbooks for this English class?

[User] Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks.

[Assistant] So you had to make up you own.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So or I would say it in English too, sometimes. But really at the beginning I did it in Sesotho. And I structured my classes so that I would have a warmup and we would go through the English curriculum that was already set up. So I would base my lessons on, on that information.

[Assistant] Students had textbooks for this English class?

[User] Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks.

[Assistant] So you had to make up you own.

[User] I made up my own materials for the most part. I had, there was a curriculum that all the teachers followed. For every grade there was a curriculum of the material that you had to cover. And the students had notebooks, paper, pens, things like that.

[Assistant] So you were to write on the board and they would copy into the notebooks?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, sometimes they would have a textbook. Uh, I very infrequently saw textbooks.

[Assistant] So you had to make up you own.

[User] I made up my own materials for the most part. I had, there was a curriculum that all the teachers followed. For every grade there was a curriculum of the material that you had to cover. And the students had notebooks, paper, pens, things like that.

[Assistant] So you were to write on the board and they would copy into the notebooks?

[User] Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.

[Assistant] Did you, do you ever, were you able to make a worksheet, say, and run it off in the school office, make copies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.

[Assistant] Did you, do you ever, were you able to make a worksheet, say, and run it off in the school office, make copies?

[User] No, we didn't have a copy machine. That would have been wonderful. But we did not have that. So a lot of times what I would do when we had a test or a quiz or something like that, anything, I would write it all out on the board.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah, it took a lot of time and they had these really big, wonderful chalkboards. I mean, for that reason, because of course everybody else did that. And every other subject, you would write the entire test out on the board.

[Assistant] And students copied.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, it took a lot of time and they had these really big, wonderful chalkboards. I mean, for that reason, because of course everybody else did that. And every other subject, you would write the entire test out on the board.

[Assistant] And students copied.

[User] The students copied everything down.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The students copied everything down.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So. And you did, so you had three classes there in Mopeli?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How did that work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And then in that same day, you would stroll over to Lepholisa and teach some more?

[User] No.

[Assistant] How did that work?

[User] I split up my week. I would spend Monday and Tuesday at Mopeli, Wednesday and Thursday at Lepholisa. And Fridays I did alternatively between the schools, you know, once a week. I mean, every other week I would go to the school.

[Assistant] And Lepholisa, was it? They didn't have as many classrooms or they didn't have a separate classroom for each grade?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] How did that work?

[User] I split up my week. I would spend Monday and Tuesday at Mopeli, Wednesday and Thursday at Lepholisa. And Fridays I did alternatively between the schools, you know, once a week. I mean, every other week I would go to the school.

[Assistant] And Lepholisa, was it? They didn't have as many classrooms or they didn't have a separate classroom for each grade?

[User]
Right.

Lepholisa was in dire straits when I arrived. They, their building was a church building. And so there was a big main hall area, just a big room, that was the younger students. And then.

[Assistant] Younger students meaning?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yep. The chalkboards were just basically pieces of plywood that had been, I mean, very, very old.

[Assistant] Painted black?

[User] That had been painted black with chalkboard paint a long time ago. They had holes in them. They were falling off. You would, you would lean them up against a chair to write anything. And it was, you know, maybe two feet by three feet. It was not very large at all.

[Assistant] Oh, difficult.

[User] So, um, yeah, it was, it was definitely very different than the government school.

[Assistant] How far away was Lepholisa from Mopeli?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That had been painted black with chalkboard paint a long time ago. They had holes in them. They were falling off. You would, you would lean them up against a chair to write anything. And it was, you know, maybe two feet by three feet. It was not very large at all.

[Assistant] Oh, difficult.

[User] So, um, yeah, it was, it was definitely very different than the government school.

[Assistant] How far away was Lepholisa from Mopeli?

[User] Not very far. It was the next village over. I could walk there and it would take 30 minutes, maybe.

[Assistant] Could the kids from Lepholisa not have gone to school in Mopeli where the facilities were so much better?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, um, no. There was the idea that if you were in Lepholisa, if you were born in the Lepholisa village, you would go to the Lepholisa school. The people in that village all went to that church. I mean, really, you know, the communities in Lesotho a lot of times when they are small like that, there are lots of extended family members are there. So they're all part of the same church.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] And the expectation was that if you are part of this church, you will support us. You will come to this school.

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah.

[User] We have excellent teachers and all of that, which they did. But the resources were just not as minimal, were definitely minimal so. So I split up my time between those, those two schools.

[Assistant] Did you get any help from Peace Corps in, in terms of resources? Or did people from Peace Corps come up to visit you to see how you're doing and give you suggestions about classroom management or whatever?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or my, you know, my program director would come, who was a host country. He would come, right, and tour the school with me and talk about how we're doing, how I'm doing. I think that happened once a year. So we had two visits.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Yeah, a few people would come by. But, I mean, the idea was really that you were supposed to work with your counterpart. Your counterpart was your number one person to stay in touch with. And, you know, people in the village and the community. I mean, not everybody had a counterpart that they could rely on.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho.

[Assistant] So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, a few people would come by. But, I mean, the idea was really that you were supposed to work with your counterpart. Your counterpart was your number one person to stay in touch with. And, you know, people in the village and the community. I mean, not everybody had a counterpart that they could rely on.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho.

[Assistant] So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?

[User] I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So.

[Assistant] So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were just kind of assigned to counterpart and they developed different relationships with people at the school. Maybe they found somebody else that they could work better with. I really, really relied a lot on my counterpart and she was wonderful. And she was probably my, my best friend from Lesotho.

[Assistant] So when you were with your counterpart, who was a native of Lesotho, would you speak with her in Sesotho or in English?

[User] I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So.

[Assistant] So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You could have functioned.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I spoke with her in English. Really a lot of people in the area that I lived in spoke English. I was very close to the border with South Africa, I mean, right on the border with South Africa. And the nearest big town that was close to me was a main gateway with South Africa, I mean, you know, transportation area. Peka, where I would get my mail, was also a border, so I was very close to South Africa, which meant a lot of people that would come back and forth between South Africa. A lot of people went to university in South Africa. They were just, a lot of English was spoken where I lived. So.

[Assistant] So did you, did you really need to learn Sesotho?

[User] No.

[Assistant] You could have functioned.

[User] I functioned a lot in English, which was just, um, disappointing I know in a lot of ways. But I had my conversation Sesotho. And of course, when I walked to my schools in the morning, I was always greeted by the villagers.

[Assistant] That's right, in Sesotho.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I functioned a lot in English, which was just, um, disappointing I know in a lot of ways. But I had my conversation Sesotho. And of course, when I walked to my schools in the morning, I was always greeted by the villagers.

[Assistant] That's right, in Sesotho.

[User] In Sesotho, and I would have, you know, the basic conversations in Sesotho and I really could get by understanding everything. And I did, you know, learn a lot, but I taught English and the, in schools you are also supposed to speak English. Starting in fourth grade, all of their language, I'm sorry, all of their subjects are in English. That's the idea.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I just, my Sesotho wasn't, wasn't pristine.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So you, you made friendships with people from Lesotho, your counterpart, um, your host mother. Yeah, that sounds good. And was there another volunteer in your town, or were you the only American?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I just, my Sesotho wasn't, wasn't pristine.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So you, you made friendships with people from Lesotho, your counterpart, um, your host mother. Yeah, that sounds good. And was there another volunteer in your town, or were you the only American?

[User] I was the only American in my town. But I didn't live very far away from other Americans. There was the married couple I was telling you about. They lived down the dirt road that went behind my village, up to the mountain and beyond. So I could walk to their house in maybe an hour and a half, or something like that. They were probably the closest volunteers to me. And then as my service continued this kind of later on, maybe nine months in, there was a volunteer that was medically evacuated from another Peace Corps country. And he came to Lesotho and was placed in the high school that was the village over.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers.

[Assistant] But you were actually quite alone in your own town.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was the only American in my town. But I didn't live very far away from other Americans. There was the married couple I was telling you about. They lived down the dirt road that went behind my village, up to the mountain and beyond. So I could walk to their house in maybe an hour and a half, or something like that. They were probably the closest volunteers to me. And then as my service continued this kind of later on, maybe nine months in, there was a volunteer that was medically evacuated from another Peace Corps country. And he came to Lesotho and was placed in the high school that was the village over.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers.

[Assistant] But you were actually quite alone in your own town.

[User] In my own town, there was no one else but me.

[Assistant] Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So a lot of my students would go to that high school. It was like a middle school, high school area. So he came and so then he became kind of, that's a 30 minute walk away. He was the closest person. And then the second year, he finished his service and another young lady came and was placed there. So I was not very far away from volunteers.

[Assistant] But you were actually quite alone in your own town.

[User] In my own town, there was no one else but me.

[Assistant] Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?

[User] I read a lot. I really like to read.

[Assistant] Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In my own town, there was no one else but me.

[Assistant] Right. What did you do to relax, have fun?

[User] I read a lot. I really like to read.

[Assistant] Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?

[User]
I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.

I did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. So you had milk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I read a lot. I really like to read.

[Assistant] Did you bring your own books or did Peace Corps give you a book locker?

[User]
I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.

I did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. So you had milk?

[User] I had milk. Right. I could keep milk. I mean, a lot of volunteers kept milk anyways. It just, it would be in these little cartons and they would use it up, you know, depending on the season, in a day or two.

[Assistant] Did you have running water in your house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
I brought a few books. And the Peace Corps office in Maseru had so many books, and there was a constant flow of books circulating around. People who had brought their own books. And I mean, I just. One of my greatest anxieties was, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to read all of these books before I leave? I can't bring these books back with me, but they're here and I want to read them. So I did a lot of reading.

I did a lot of cooking. I really like to cook and I really liked experimenting with okay, you know, these are my resources. What can I make? You know, I would make my own bread. I made my own yogurt for a little bit because I had a little fridge. I was able to store some things that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah. So you had milk?

[User] I had milk. Right. I could keep milk. I mean, a lot of volunteers kept milk anyways. It just, it would be in these little cartons and they would use it up, you know, depending on the season, in a day or two.

[Assistant] Did you have running water in your house?

[User] No, I didn't have running water. I think most people didn't have running water either. The water situation was I had a pump that was a few feet from my house. It was not on my compound, but it was right on the main pathway in the village. So it was just very close to my house. And there were a few pumps around the village at different areas and a hand pump. So you would go. I had a 20, a few 20 liter buckets, and I would go and wait there for everybody to finish up and I would wait for my turn.

[Assistant] Oh, well, that would be a good time for conversation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn't have running water. I think most people didn't have running water either. The water situation was I had a pump that was a few feet from my house. It was not on my compound, but it was right on the main pathway in the village. So it was just very close to my house. And there were a few pumps around the village at different areas and a hand pump. So you would go. I had a 20, a few 20 liter buckets, and I would go and wait there for everybody to finish up and I would wait for my turn.

[Assistant] Oh, well, that would be a good time for conversation.

[User] Exactly. You would talk with those people. Sometimes my students were there. They'd be playing music and, you know, with little radios and such.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back.

[Assistant] And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. You would talk with those people. Sometimes my students were there. They'd be playing music and, you know, with little radios and such.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back.

[Assistant] And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?

[User] Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general.

[Assistant] Oh, very nice.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We would just hang out there and then I would pump my own water and bring it back.

[Assistant] And then did you have to boil it or filter it or?

[User] Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general.

[Assistant] Oh, very nice.

[User] Yeah. At least where I lived it was.

[Assistant] And there was enough of it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, Peace Corps gave us a filter and they told us to boil our own water. So I had a really big kettle and I would boil my own water and then put it through the filter. But Lesotho has good water. It is a mount, you know, it's called the mountain kingdom. It's a kingdom. And because it snows every year, there's always the snow runoff. And water is one of its main resources, and fresh, clean water that comes down from the mountains. So I just, I of course boiled my water and wanted to be sure, but you know, water was very clean in general.

[Assistant] Oh, very nice.

[User] Yeah. At least where I lived it was.

[Assistant] And there was enough of it.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Good. Did you ever get sick?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Good. Did you ever get sick?

[User] No.

[Assistant] Oh, wonderful.

[User] I had, one time I had ringworm, which is.

[Assistant] That's a skin thing, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's a skin thing, right. I didn't, I didn't even know what it was. But, yeah, it was very easily treated, tiny little antibiotic cream, and that's it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] But that, that was it. I never, yeah, never got sick. In fact, I was very healthy when I was there. I mean, I lost a lot of weight because I was just eating from my garden and all the walking, very fit from pumping my own water. I mean, I feel like I was in the prime of my life when I lived in Lesotho. Yeah, I ate very healthily.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So it was, it was good. I did not get sick.

[Assistant] Um, can you describe? What about the music, music and art and what? Talk about that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But that, that was it. I never, yeah, never got sick. In fact, I was very healthy when I was there. I mean, I lost a lot of weight because I was just eating from my garden and all the walking, very fit from pumping my own water. I mean, I feel like I was in the prime of my life when I lived in Lesotho. Yeah, I ate very healthily.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] So it was, it was good. I did not get sick.

[Assistant] Um, can you describe? What about the music, music and art and what? Talk about that.

[User]
Okay. Well, um, Lesotho, its culture is a conservative one in that it's not a kind of a bright and in-your-face culture. For example, you know, when I heard that I was going to Lesotho, nothing, I could depict no images in my head of what that might look like at all. What the food might look like, what the traditional clothes were, anything. So and, you know, the culture is kind of one that is, um, just very minimalist in a way. So they have, um.

So in terms of clothes, traditional outfits, they, they do have traditional outfits. They have a traditional fabric, which is kind of these bright colors, very small print designs, like little circles or little diamonds, something like that. And, you know, there's a lot of women generally in the village that know how to sew and would make dresses and skirts for the women. And the men would wear these shirts with this, these different fabrics.

[Assistant] Fabrics were home spun, spun in Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Okay. Well, um, Lesotho, its culture is a conservative one in that it's not a kind of a bright and in-your-face culture. For example, you know, when I heard that I was going to Lesotho, nothing, I could depict no images in my head of what that might look like at all. What the food might look like, what the traditional clothes were, anything. So and, you know, the culture is kind of one that is, um, just very minimalist in a way. So they have, um.

So in terms of clothes, traditional outfits, they, they do have traditional outfits. They have a traditional fabric, which is kind of these bright colors, very small print designs, like little circles or little diamonds, something like that. And, you know, there's a lot of women generally in the village that know how to sew and would make dresses and skirts for the women. And the men would wear these shirts with this, these different fabrics.

[Assistant] Fabrics were home spun, spun in Lesotho?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Oh, I'm sorry. The fabric itself, no, actually, I don't think it was. I mean, of course.

[Assistant] So like the market cloth.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so that's kind of the traditional clothes that people would wear generally for celebrations and things like that. Music was very important in Lesotho. Church is a big aspect of life for a lot of people. So lots of a cappella singing, a lot of church songs, things like that. Singing was so enormous. I mean, just a part of everyday life. And I loved it so much. I mean, every morning the students would sing, you know, the national anthem. They would sing little songs before they started off their school day.

[Assistant] In Sesotho?

[User] Sometimes in English. Sesotho and in English. And it was such a lovely way to start the day when you have an assembly. And then they would, you know, maybe the eldest class would, like the seventh graders or something, would pick the song that they would sing and they would sing this little song and they'd march off to their classes singing the song. And it was just a great way to start the day. But anyways, so really just every day people were singing all the time together in harmony, which was always really nice.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation.

[Assistant] The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes in English. Sesotho and in English. And it was such a lovely way to start the day when you have an assembly. And then they would, you know, maybe the eldest class would, like the seventh graders or something, would pick the song that they would sing and they would sing this little song and they'd march off to their classes singing the song. And it was just a great way to start the day. But anyways, so really just every day people were singing all the time together in harmony, which was always really nice.

[Assistant] Wonderful.

[User] It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation.

[Assistant] The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?

[User] Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere.

[Assistant] Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It really was. And then music in general was just very important. Radios were on all the time. There was, you know, kind of these pop songs that would come out of South Africa that became very popular, that would go around. House music was very popular, which was kind of these low beats that people would listen to very loudly on transportation.

[Assistant] The same thing that we, when we talk about house music here, the same kind of, kind of techno?

[User] Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere.

[Assistant] Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, yeah, kind of, kind of the same thing. I mean, it definitely would have its own, like South African house music I think was probably separate. It's the same genre, but it's definitely, it's got its own rhythm to it than elsewhere.

[Assistant] Did you bring any of that home? Were you able to buy?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?

[User] Yeah, on CDs. I got a few MP3 clips from friends of that music. And then there was famo music, which is kind of.

[Assistant] What, say it again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Music on, what, cassette tapes? On CDs?

[User] Yeah, on CDs. I got a few MP3 clips from friends of that music. And then there was famo music, which is kind of.

[Assistant] What, say it again?

[User] Famo music, which is kind of more traditionally for Lesotho. And it's these kind of, um, song stories that people would sing. Many times it was men, and a lot of times it had an accordion and a harmonica. And sometimes, and this beat, it would always, almost always start the same way. And it would be usually a man saying a story of something that happened to him. A lot of times it was pretty random and I didn't like it very much. It was a, I had never heard anything like it and it was not always what I wanted to hear, but my next door neighbor would blast it at all hours. So it was always a struggle with that kind of music.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were there for two years. Was the second year in any way different from the first?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So the second year, I, my big project was helping Lepholisa build classrooms.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] You know, when I asked Lepholisa, you know, what, okay, what should we do? You know, I'm here. I've got one more year. I could probably get funding from the United States. What, what is the most important thing that you think Lepholisa would need funding for? And immediately they said classrooms.

[Assistant] Classrooms.

[User] So we really worked hard to get classrooms built.

[Assistant] Did you get funding?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, when I asked Lepholisa, you know, what, okay, what should we do? You know, I'm here. I've got one more year. I could probably get funding from the United States. What, what is the most important thing that you think Lepholisa would need funding for? And immediately they said classrooms.

[Assistant] Classrooms.

[User] So we really worked hard to get classrooms built.

[Assistant] Did you get funding?

[User] We did.

[Assistant] How did you do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did.

[Assistant] How did you do that?

[User] There is the PCPP. It's like Peace Corps Partnership Program.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I applied and, you know, we basically were accepted to have Peace Corps' name put on this program, um, this, this, you know, offer basically. Or what we were asking for, to put Peace Corps' name onto it. So then my name got put onto the Peace Corps website of saying, okay, you know, here you can fund a Peace Corps volunteer's current project. And so that would be for people in the United States who maybe wanted to support me. I mean, I had, you know, family members, friends that, that wanted to just do something.

[Assistant] Sure. Did the RPCV group here in Madison contribute to that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They helped me so much.

[Assistant] Good, good.

[User] I wrote newsletters once a month via email that I sent out to a big listserv of my family and friends, and a few of them were returned Peace Corps volunteers from Madison, and they really supported me. They got to know the people that I would talk about on my newsletters, my host family, people like that, my village. And maybe I would talk about how, oh, you know, we didn't have enough markers so I couldn't finish this poster I was making, for example. I don't think that actually happened. But they would send me school supplies.

[Assistant] Oh boy.

[User] They were just really, really instrumental. I had a very good friend who would also help me get some of my, my newsletters published via Peace Corps affiliated magazines and blogs and things like that. So I really had help from people that I didn't really know as well.

[Assistant] That is true.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I wrote newsletters once a month via email that I sent out to a big listserv of my family and friends, and a few of them were returned Peace Corps volunteers from Madison, and they really supported me. They got to know the people that I would talk about on my newsletters, my host family, people like that, my village. And maybe I would talk about how, oh, you know, we didn't have enough markers so I couldn't finish this poster I was making, for example. I don't think that actually happened. But they would send me school supplies.

[Assistant] Oh boy.

[User] They were just really, really instrumental. I had a very good friend who would also help me get some of my, my newsletters published via Peace Corps affiliated magazines and blogs and things like that. So I really had help from people that I didn't really know as well.

[Assistant] That is true.

[User] It was really wonderful.

[Assistant] That's good. So you succeeded in getting some classrooms built?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And water. People going to get water from the pump basically, which was huge. So, uh, so that was really wonderful. And I did a few other projects too. Built some chalkboards for the class.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Which was really important. Helped set up the library at Lepholisa, because they had books but they were in boxes. And so no one ever.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] There wasn't a library system set up at all. Books were not on the shelf at all. So we built some bookshelves and put the books on the wall, things like that. So yeah, a lot happened in that second year.

[Assistant] Sounds very gratifying.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There wasn't a library system set up at all. Books were not on the shelf at all. So we built some bookshelves and put the books on the wall, things like that. So yeah, a lot happened in that second year.

[Assistant] Sounds very gratifying.

[User] It was very busy.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Did you take any vacations? Did you get time off?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was wonderful.

[Assistant] Did you take any vacations? Did you get time off?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] School holidays?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What do you do? Where'd you go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I traveled a lot. I went to Swaziland, another small country in southern Africa. So it was very interesting to compare those countries. I went to South Africa a few times. I went to Botswana, I went to Zimbabwe and Zambia area. I went to Madagascar.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] That was really nice.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] This is all during your two years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was really nice.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] This is all during your two years?

[User] This was all during my two years.

[Assistant] When you had holiday time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] This was all during my two years.

[Assistant] When you had holiday time?

[User] Yes. And then I took my close of service trip to Mozambique.

[Assistant] To Mozambique.

[User] So I really traveled a lot.

[Assistant] That was on your way home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. And then I took my close of service trip to Mozambique.

[Assistant] To Mozambique.

[User] So I really traveled a lot.

[Assistant] That was on your way home?

[User] It was on my way home, yeah. So it was nice.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, about things that happened when you were in Lesotho?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I really traveled a lot.

[Assistant] That was on your way home?

[User] It was on my way home, yeah. So it was nice.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, about things that happened when you were in Lesotho?

[User] Um. Transportation was always really interesting.

[Assistant] Yeah. You mentioned taxis a couple of times.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um. Transportation was always really interesting.

[Assistant] Yeah. You mentioned taxis a couple of times.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Describe that.

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Is it like a taxi like when you call a union cab here or is it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Describe that.

[User] Well.

[Assistant] Is it like a taxi like when you call a union cab here or is it?

[User] No. They would have taxi ranks in these bigger cities or urban areas, so there would be a place to go get your taxi. Again, fortunately for me, I lived on the main road so my, I could almost always quickly catch a taxi because it was very well traveled in that area. It's not like I needed a special one for my village. I could just get off at my stop, basically. So that was lucky for me. I.

[Assistant] And would you be all by yourself in a taxi or are these, like, collective little, sort of like minivans?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
And so that was always funny. I didn't, I didn't mind so much in the wintertime, of course, but in the summertime it would be very hot and I would open the window and some grandmother next to me would say, what are you doing? Close the windows. Sufuba, sufuba, you're going to get sick! And I'd be like, no, we're going to get sick sitting in here. You know, it's so hot, all the germs. It was always really funny. But yeah, transportation was always just very exhilarating because you never quite knew what was going to happen. And I was very fortunate in that my transportation, I had very, I mean, generally good experiences.

But there's also a culture around transportation. Like you, you know, there's a lady that comes in with bags and you have to help this lady with her bags. Or someone that comes in with multiple babies. You have to, you know, she would just pass you a baby and you hold onto the baby for the ride. Or you'd hold onto someone's chickens or whatnot. And, you know, there was also, you would, if you put yourself in someone's taxi, you shouldn't get out and try to get on to a different taxi because that would offend the driver and all of that, even though that taxi might be leaving now and you don't know how long your taxi is going to be filled up. There was just all of these cultural, um, innuendo moments that.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] That revolved around transportation, which I feel like we don't have in the United States so much because we're very private in our transportation options.

[Assistant] Yes, yes.

[User] So that was always very interesting. Um.

[Assistant] What was, what was difficult? Was there anything difficult?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The only time that ever happened to me. But I, it was very frustrating. Like I, I have been taking this taxi for two years, my friend. You know, I know how much it costs. And of course, it was a new, new driver.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] Who didn't know me, you know. So things like that. I had, I had a rat problem.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yes, vermin. So that was.

[Assistant] How did they get in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Who didn't know me, you know. So things like that. I had, I had a rat problem.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Yes, vermin. So that was.

[Assistant] How did they get in?

[User] That was almost traumatizing. Um. My house, although I loved it very much, was a very old house too. It was almost 100 years old.

[Assistant] Oh. What kind of floor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was almost traumatizing. Um. My house, although I loved it very much, was a very old house too. It was almost 100 years old.

[Assistant] Oh. What kind of floor?

[User] It had a concrete floor. I think, though, that the volunteer before me was, had had that made. I don't think it was always a concrete floor.

[Assistant] Uh huh.

[User] So by the time I arrived, I don't know, there was a very nice concrete floor and she had put tiles on it. So, um, like kind of these plastic tiles, but very firm. It was just, it was nice. They didn't come through the floor. I might, I think it was just one rat really. This rat would come through the wall. There were these, basically the stones on my house were put together and held with this mud paste basically. And over the years it's starting to crumble. And so it was very easy for it to kind of dig its hole in there. And so in my two years, I had two moments, both at the same time, in like the fall time, when a rat would come into my house at night. And, um, yeah.

[Assistant] How did you become aware that it was there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So by the time I arrived, I don't know, there was a very nice concrete floor and she had put tiles on it. So, um, like kind of these plastic tiles, but very firm. It was just, it was nice. They didn't come through the floor. I might, I think it was just one rat really. This rat would come through the wall. There were these, basically the stones on my house were put together and held with this mud paste basically. And over the years it's starting to crumble. And so it was very easy for it to kind of dig its hole in there. And so in my two years, I had two moments, both at the same time, in like the fall time, when a rat would come into my house at night. And, um, yeah.

[Assistant] How did you become aware that it was there?

[User] Because I heard it, because my house is just one room.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so.

[Assistant] How big is this room, by the way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so.

[Assistant] How big is this room, by the way?

[User] Not very big at all. It's a circle. It was just a circle. It was maybe ten feet in diameter, or 12 feet. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So I definitely heard it. And I would wake up and turn on my light and there would be a rat looking at me, you know, from my table.

[Assistant] Oh. So what did you do? How did you deal with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was a process. I mean, I, uh, you know, and it was like psychological too, because every night it would come and destroy my house.

[Assistant] Oh, oh.

[User] For like two weeks, you know, it would come.

[Assistant] Oh my.

[User] Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so.

[Assistant] It would destroy your house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] For like two weeks, you know, it would come.

[Assistant] Oh my.

[User] Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so.

[Assistant] It would destroy your house?

[User] Well, he would come and he would eat my fruit, you know, that I had out. And it would come and dig in my drawers and, uh, yeah, just like run around. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, I tried a lot of things. I tried a lot of, I did a lot of research, you know, when I could get the internet and I would look at like, okay, peppermint repels rats. So I would get some peppermint tea and make peppermint tea. And then once it cooled down, put it around on the stones around my house. I tried filling in the cracks.

[Assistant] Did it work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. And I couldn't sleep at night. And of course I couldn't sleep, there's rats in here and so.

[Assistant] It would destroy your house?

[User] Well, he would come and he would eat my fruit, you know, that I had out. And it would come and dig in my drawers and, uh, yeah, just like run around. Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, I tried a lot of things. I tried a lot of, I did a lot of research, you know, when I could get the internet and I would look at like, okay, peppermint repels rats. So I would get some peppermint tea and make peppermint tea. And then once it cooled down, put it around on the stones around my house. I tried filling in the cracks.

[Assistant] Did it work?

[User] So I tried a lot of things. And the only thing that worked was I bought poison from basically a villager who I was complaining to, like I have this rat problem. I don't know what to do. And she said, oh, sister, I will get you the poison that you need. And she did.

[Assistant] Your host, did you confide in your host mother?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I tried a lot of things. And the only thing that worked was I bought poison from basically a villager who I was complaining to, like I have this rat problem. I don't know what to do. And she said, oh, sister, I will get you the poison that you need. And she did.

[Assistant] Your host, did you confide in your host mother?

[User] I did. And but she didn't really, I don't think it was her that helped me out. I think it was a friend at school, one of my colleagues that told me, oh, I will, I will get you the things that you need. You know, this little sachet of poison, basically, that helped me get rid of my rat problem. So, um. But that was, that was, I don't know. That was hard. And I'm not a very squeamish person. But this, this like rat that kept coming in my house, it just felt like that was my safe space and I was no longer safe because I had this, this, this intruder every night.

[Assistant] Devastating.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard.

[Assistant] So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. And but she didn't really, I don't think it was her that helped me out. I think it was a friend at school, one of my colleagues that told me, oh, I will, I will get you the things that you need. You know, this little sachet of poison, basically, that helped me get rid of my rat problem. So, um. But that was, that was, I don't know. That was hard. And I'm not a very squeamish person. But this, this like rat that kept coming in my house, it just felt like that was my safe space and I was no longer safe because I had this, this, this intruder every night.

[Assistant] Devastating.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard.

[Assistant] So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?

[User] It did.

[Assistant] Was there some celebration and some, some sort of party or acknowledgment that you had been there for two years and you were now leaving?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was, that was hard.

[Assistant] So when your two years were over, did that, did that coincide with the end of a school year, of the second school year?

[User] It did.

[Assistant] Was there some celebration and some, some sort of party or acknowledgment that you had been there for two years and you were now leaving?

[User]
Yes, there was, um, I had two celebrations because I had two schools. There was a big, um, yep, a big party at both schools. It was lovely. You know, I had gifts given to me from the schools. We had food. There was dancing, you know, traditional dancing from the women. It was very nice. Very, very lovely, lovely parties. I mean, yeah, it was, it was very overwhelming. Such, all the gratitude from everyone.

I have thought of two things that I, um, that were. One thing that was hard that I wanted to mention that I'm now remembering. And then another story that's an embarrassing story. And I feel like.

[Assistant] No fear at all.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And we'd get there and they would spend their little money that they would bring on like chips and stuff like that. And fat, fat cakes, which is just fried dough, and all of these little treats and such. So anyways, it was just a grand old time for them. And you know, I also enjoyed going to them because it was really a bonding thing and you would go and support your school. Sometimes there were school t-shirts and you would go and cheer for your students. But sometimes it would also be very challenging because it would be an all-day affair. I mean, you would go there and you would not know when you were going to leave at all.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And you were reliant on the school's public transportation. I mean, sorry, the school's transportation.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And usually you would be there 9 hours.

[Assistant] Oh, that's a big commitment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And you were reliant on the school's public transportation. I mean, sorry, the school's transportation.

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] And usually you would be there 9 hours.

[Assistant] Oh, that's a big commitment.

[User] Big commitment. I know.

[Assistant] On your day off.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] On your, right, it wasn't on your day off. It would be a school day. But still, it was just a very long day. And then you would be suddenly in this sea of people who didn't know who you were. And which is, I would be, you know, the only white person there at all.

[Assistant] Sure, yeah.

[User] Which I don't mind so much. Of course I don't mind, you know. But everybody else would just make a big show of it. Not, not everyone, but a lot of people would. And there was a lot of like leering and a lot of comments and.

[Assistant] That's uncomfortable.

[User] A lot of people get just, it's just very uncomfortable. Yeah. Which I could handle for maybe three hours, but 9 hours was just a very long time of, of handling this constant attention. So sometimes that was, that was hard. It was hard to deal with.

[Assistant] It's reminding me of what you said in the very beginning, about in training, they put so much emphasis on safety.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Which I don't mind so much. Of course I don't mind, you know. But everybody else would just make a big show of it. Not, not everyone, but a lot of people would. And there was a lot of like leering and a lot of comments and.

[Assistant] That's uncomfortable.

[User] A lot of people get just, it's just very uncomfortable. Yeah. Which I could handle for maybe three hours, but 9 hours was just a very long time of, of handling this constant attention. So sometimes that was, that was hard. It was hard to deal with.

[Assistant] It's reminding me of what you said in the very beginning, about in training, they put so much emphasis on safety.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Did you feel safe in these situations? Were you ever in a, in an unsafe situation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I would feel safe because I was with my community and, I mean, that was really the main message that they were trying to say, was that you are put in these communities and not, you're not put into the capital city because, of course, the communities need you rather than the capital city. But also because it is very safe in the community. And you might feel like you don't have the resources that you would have in the capital city, but you are much safer in these small villages than you are ever in the capital city. Because it's small, people get to know you.

[Assistant] That's right.

[User] People look out for you, I mean. And it's true. I had students that would accompany me around the scary dog that I would have to pass by every day. There was a bar in my village that would get all of those people that would come through on the main road, again, who didn't know who I was, and I would pass the bar just to go to school. And I would have my students accompany me sometimes because that was also kind of dangerous.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] But, no, but in general, I mean, I felt very safe in my own village because I knew who everybody was. And at these events, it's never that I felt unsafe. I did not feel unsafe. It was just uncomfortable. But I was always with my colleagues and they really respected me and they understood. So yeah, they were very good to me.

[Assistant] Was there another one? I think you said there were two hard stories, about things being hard.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, these, it's possible to make these things. The calendar was in French, so they learned like the French months just on their own, just looking at my calendar. And where is France and, okay, matching like the flags and all of the stuff. They were just very interested.

[Assistant] It's a wonderful moment, really working with kids who are tuning in.

[User] Or just taking out a book and coming up to me and pointing at like jellyfish and being like, whoa, what is this?

[Assistant] Ah. Uh huh.

[User] And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before.

[Assistant] Of course not.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or just taking out a book and coming up to me and pointing at like jellyfish and being like, whoa, what is this?

[Assistant] Ah. Uh huh.

[User] And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before.

[Assistant] Of course not.

[User] You know, or a kangaroo. They'd be like, whoa, what, oh, what is this weird animal? And I'd go, kangaroo, Australia. I'd point to the map. I would explain. It has a pouch, it puts its baby in there. These things that they had never seen before, and they just loved it so much.

[Assistant] Those are wonderful moments, being with a child who's filled with curiosity.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I would explain, okay, a jellyfish lives in the ocean, which they've never seen before.

[Assistant] Of course not.

[User] You know, or a kangaroo. They'd be like, whoa, what, oh, what is this weird animal? And I'd go, kangaroo, Australia. I'd point to the map. I would explain. It has a pouch, it puts its baby in there. These things that they had never seen before, and they just loved it so much.

[Assistant] Those are wonderful moments, being with a child who's filled with curiosity.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And brings the question to you. And you talk about it together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And brings the question to you. And you talk about it together.

[User] Exactly. And we'd talk in English. It was just great informal learning. And these were things that they were interested in. You know, I had one student one time. I mean, this was just, this was when I really didn't know what to say. He came and he said, madam, what would happen if a shark and a bear got into a fight? Who would win? And I love that question because there are no bears in Lesotho. There are no sharks in Lesotho.

[Assistant] No sharks.

[User] And he just had this question on his own, you know, from reading books and looking at pictures and all of that and decided, okay. Sharks are like the main predator in the ocean. Bears are the main predator on land. If they got into a fight, who would win? And this is a ten year old boy and this is the same question that a ten year old boy here would ask, you know? Maybe not a teacher, but his friend or whoever. And he was so serious. And I was kind of laughing like, well, I don't know. And he was, he was like, but who would win? You know, looking into the answer.

[Assistant] There must be an answer.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. And we'd talk in English. It was just great informal learning. And these were things that they were interested in. You know, I had one student one time. I mean, this was just, this was when I really didn't know what to say. He came and he said, madam, what would happen if a shark and a bear got into a fight? Who would win? And I love that question because there are no bears in Lesotho. There are no sharks in Lesotho.

[Assistant] No sharks.

[User] And he just had this question on his own, you know, from reading books and looking at pictures and all of that and decided, okay. Sharks are like the main predator in the ocean. Bears are the main predator on land. If they got into a fight, who would win? And this is a ten year old boy and this is the same question that a ten year old boy here would ask, you know? Maybe not a teacher, but his friend or whoever. And he was so serious. And I was kind of laughing like, well, I don't know. And he was, he was like, but who would win? You know, looking into the answer.

[Assistant] There must be an answer.

[User] I eventually, I think I said, well, you know, I guess it depends on where they're fighting, you know, the ocean, maybe the bear, the shark would win. On land, it might be the bear, I don't know. But these are the kinds of questions that they would come up with on their own that I loved. I would also see this, these kinds of questions I really saw the second year. I did, you know, a big part of Peace Corps Lesotho at least is HIV AIDS education, because it's very, very prevalent there.

[Assistant] And do you discuss that in the primary schools?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I eventually, I think I said, well, you know, I guess it depends on where they're fighting, you know, the ocean, maybe the bear, the shark would win. On land, it might be the bear, I don't know. But these are the kinds of questions that they would come up with on their own that I loved. I would also see this, these kinds of questions I really saw the second year. I did, you know, a big part of Peace Corps Lesotho at least is HIV AIDS education, because it's very, very prevalent there.

[Assistant] And do you discuss that in the primary schools?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Ah.

[User] I was very fortunate that my schools gave me the okay to talk about these kinds of things. Of course, it's still elementary school so you want to, you know, kind of stick with the facts of course. I mean, I know I had friends who worked in the high school that would get all sorts of questions. But in primary school, of course, you just want to stick with like really the science of it all and all of that. But it's important. I mean, I was there saying, no, yeah, we have to talk about these things in elementary school. Some people I know, some staff members were saying, oh, it's, don't you think it's too early? And I would say, no, you have to. I mean, you really. It is very, one out of four people in the Lesotho has HIV so.

[Assistant] One out of four?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That's huge.

[User] It is. We, that, that's what the statistic was when I was there. So we need to talk about it all the time with everyone and make this not a taboo anymore.

[Assistant] That's right.

[User] I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it.

[Assistant] Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It is. We, that, that's what the statistic was when I was there. So we need to talk about it all the time with everyone and make this not a taboo anymore.

[Assistant] That's right.

[User] I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it.

[Assistant] Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it.

[User] Right. And then when someone would pass away, no one ever said he would, they would pass away from AIDS. You know, it would be like, oh.

[Assistant] There was a taboo to them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, there was very much this taboo of silence around it.

[Assistant] Right. And this idea that you may not, you may feel fine and not know that you're carrying it for ten years before you come down with any symptoms, that you can be spreading it.

[User] Right. And then when someone would pass away, no one ever said he would, they would pass away from AIDS. You know, it would be like, oh.

[Assistant] There was a taboo to them?

[User] Absolutely. Oh, he passed away, you know, from his heart or his stomach. Like no one, it was never clear what, what happened.

[Assistant] So that doesn't help with prevention.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly. What's your source? And that was a great question.

[Assistant] No kidding. Who told you that?

[User] And I said, we can talk about this if you want after school. And we did. And, you know, I explained. Really it had been obviously a part of my Peace Corps orientation. In training we had a HIV AIDS coordinator, you know, who had all her resources from the World Health Organization and everything and all of that. So all of those resources. And I was able to talk with him and show him and explain that we have these organizations that measure these types of things, you know. And when you go to the clinic and you get tested, you get like part of this, you get placed on this, you know, percentage of people. Like I explained it to him who, and but the fact that he could understand what I was saying, and the gravity of what I was saying, was just a really. It was a, it was an important moment in my service.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I mean, you never know really when you're when you're up there and you're talking about these things and you think, well, I'm trying to make it fun, but it's obviously really important. But I don't know if they know if it's important. And this, this culture, there's a taboo around it in this culture. I don't, I don't know if people are going to take any of what I'm saying. You know, who am I? I look so different from all these people and I'm only here two years and they're dealing with this. They've been dealing with this for generations. And who am I to come in and say, well, this and this and this? You know, it's just, it's hard to tell what people take away. But that was, um, that's something I'll always remember, that he could understand what I was saying.

[Assistant] That's a wonderful thing to be able to take home with you, that you made a difference there, that, you know, that somebody woke up and asked good questions and you were there to give the answers.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I felt like, well, of course I would have to learn the dialect.

[Assistant] The local.

[User] Local language, of course. But at least if I could speak the official language or whatnot, maybe that would be helpful.

[Assistant] No kidding.

[User] But then Lesotho? English and Sesotho? I mean.

[Assistant] Did you have the option of saying, no thank you, I'll wait until an invitation comes up for a French speaking country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But then Lesotho? English and Sesotho? I mean.

[Assistant] Did you have the option of saying, no thank you, I'll wait until an invitation comes up for a French speaking country?

[User] No. Uh, it was. Now it's different when you apply now. You actually get to select.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Where you get to go, or you have a say in where you get to go. And that was not what it was like when I applied, which was.

[Assistant] You either take it or you're, you're out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Uh, it was. Now it's different when you apply now. You actually get to select.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] Where you get to go, or you have a say in where you get to go. And that was not what it was like when I applied, which was.

[Assistant] You either take it or you're, you're out.

[User] The past 50 years is kind of been this way of you, you allow someone else to choose for you based on your skills and what you have to offer and what you're willing to do, you know, in what sector you're going to work in, where you're going to go. And I just trusted. You know, I trusted the Peace Corps. I felt like I'd given everything in these interview sessions. I have told them everything about what I have to offer. And they're making a decision based on that information. And maybe, you know, I'm just going to go with it and I'm going to try. I mean, that's what anyone you can do.

[Assistant] Now that you've, now that you've been in Lesotho as a volunteer for two years, do you regret having spent your time there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I mean, it's really, it's really fortunate in that way. And not, not that I'm trying to make it to any every country or anything, but to have this, this experience that I would not have otherwise.

[Assistant] That's right.

[User] And being kind of this international person, I think I, I have that drive to travel and I have these major spoken languages under my wings that I can go and communicate. And so there's nothing holding me back really from doing that if I want to. But going into Lesotho to on my own, what would I?

[Assistant] No.

[User] How would I?

[Assistant] No, you wouldn't.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And being kind of this international person, I think I, I have that drive to travel and I have these major spoken languages under my wings that I can go and communicate. And so there's nothing holding me back really from doing that if I want to. But going into Lesotho to on my own, what would I?

[Assistant] No.

[User] How would I?

[Assistant] No, you wouldn't.

[User] No, I wouldn't have done that on my own.

[Assistant] You'd never, you'd never wind up there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] How would I?

[Assistant] No, you wouldn't.

[User] No, I wouldn't have done that on my own.

[Assistant] You'd never, you'd never wind up there.

[User] The longer I was in Lesotho the more I was looking around my surroundings and thinking, thank goodness I was placed in this country. I mean, it was just things that after living there for a while I realized, you know, I really appreciate, you know, like that there's no malaria in this country, you know, which is not the reality for a lot of Peace Corps volunteers. Yeah, things like that. Or how kind my community is to me or to Americans. That was huge. And for me personally, I really, in my interview process I really stressed that I was concerned that I was going to go and teach English someplace. I did not want to be put as this person thrown into a country and just like, well, I'm here to do all English. And I was like, well, why? Well, because, you know, English is a very important language to know, to learn.

[Assistant] But Lesotho needs English.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The longer I was in Lesotho the more I was looking around my surroundings and thinking, thank goodness I was placed in this country. I mean, it was just things that after living there for a while I realized, you know, I really appreciate, you know, like that there's no malaria in this country, you know, which is not the reality for a lot of Peace Corps volunteers. Yeah, things like that. Or how kind my community is to me or to Americans. That was huge. And for me personally, I really, in my interview process I really stressed that I was concerned that I was going to go and teach English someplace. I did not want to be put as this person thrown into a country and just like, well, I'm here to do all English. And I was like, well, why? Well, because, you know, English is a very important language to know, to learn.

[Assistant] But Lesotho needs English.

[User] Right, that might not have English as an official language or be any near any other country that needs to learn English.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did.

[Assistant] And you did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, that might not have English as an official language or be any near any other country that needs to learn English.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did.

[Assistant] And you did.

[User] And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to.

[Assistant] What's next? What are you doing now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just felt like that was kind of an imperialist thing. And so I really stressed that, well, I want to feel like I have purpose when I go. I would like to teach English and I feel like I would really appreciate being placed somewhere where I feel useful. And I did.

[Assistant] And you did.

[User] And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to.

[Assistant] What's next? What are you doing now?

[User] Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now.

[Assistant] You do? Which school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I really did there in Lesotho. So it really was just a perfect place for me to go to.

[Assistant] What's next? What are you doing now?

[User] Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now.

[Assistant] You do? Which school?

[User] I work in a Montessori school as a teacher's assistant. And of course, that's been very eye opening. I mean, you know, working in a school in Lesotho, quite different than working in a school in the United States.

[Assistant] Oh, sure, sure. And do you think you might go to graduate school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I'm back in Madison, Wisconsin. I work in a school now.

[Assistant] You do? Which school?

[User] I work in a Montessori school as a teacher's assistant. And of course, that's been very eye opening. I mean, you know, working in a school in Lesotho, quite different than working in a school in the United States.

[Assistant] Oh, sure, sure. And do you think you might go to graduate school?

[User] I do. I intend to apply next fall for graduate schools. And actually, I'm looking to teaching ESL.

[Assistant] No kidding. How about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I, you know, I'm involved with the Return Peace Corps Volunteers of Madison, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, which is quite active and large. And it's, it's really lovely to be living here and to have that community group. They're kind of like family, because my family lives far away. So that's nice. Um. I've been working. Last October I did a TED Talk.

[Assistant] Oh, yes.

[User] About my experiences in Lesotho and about the culture of community in particular that I witnessed in Lesotho, and how that, that it's very eye opening for someone that doesn't live in a culture that is so community driven all the time. So I did that. Yeah. And the next step is, is graduate school.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] For education, which I'm very excited about the next chapter.

[Assistant] I wish you well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It’s always good to visit with you two.

[Assistant] Yes, we appreciate it. I like how you wore your [Expedition] shirt today.

[User] I did, I did.

[Assistant] You did, you came prepared.

[User] With my consulting company I’ve adopted this as the logo. This was actually one of my crew shirts from [International Space Station (ISS)] Expedition 12. This is the Roman numeral XII with the astronaut shooting star on it [demonstrates], which are a couple of elements from the Expedition 12 patch. It’s not the whole patch, but I was like, “Just put it on your business card.” And the name of my consulting firm is ISS12 Consulting, LLC. No one has sent me a cease and desist letter yet.

[Assistant] Can’t imagine that they will.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did, I did.

[Assistant] You did, you came prepared.

[User] With my consulting company I’ve adopted this as the logo. This was actually one of my crew shirts from [International Space Station (ISS)] Expedition 12. This is the Roman numeral XII with the astronaut shooting star on it [demonstrates], which are a couple of elements from the Expedition 12 patch. It’s not the whole patch, but I was like, “Just put it on your business card.” And the name of my consulting firm is ISS12 Consulting, LLC. No one has sent me a cease and desist letter yet.

[Assistant] Can’t imagine that they will.

[User] Anyhow, the DOR [director of operations Russia] story.

[Assistant] Yes. I thought that sounded like an interesting story we ought to cover.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I had this access point at Star City, I used it in Baikonur, and I know it violated probably every security protocol in the world.

[Assistant] Nobody called you on it though.

[User] No. I think though later we figured out that keeping people connected is not a bad thing, and so eventually they, I think, provided internet connectivity to the rooms for the crewmembers.

[Assistant] Probably a good lesson learned you may have passed on. I know in previous interviews you’ve talked about flying in that left seat, but I wonder if you would talk about coming up on Station. How different it looked from the last time you were there, and what your memories are of docking and the events that happened.

[User] You know, you can’t see much of it.

[Assistant] Oh, you can’t.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. I think though later we figured out that keeping people connected is not a bad thing, and so eventually they, I think, provided internet connectivity to the rooms for the crewmembers.

[Assistant] Probably a good lesson learned you may have passed on. I know in previous interviews you’ve talked about flying in that left seat, but I wonder if you would talk about coming up on Station. How different it looked from the last time you were there, and what your memories are of docking and the events that happened.

[User] You know, you can’t see much of it.

[Assistant] Oh, you can’t.

[User] There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen.

[Assistant] That’s all you see?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, you can’t see much of it.

[Assistant] Oh, you can’t.

[User] There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen.

[Assistant] That’s all you see?

[User] That’s what you see.

[Assistant] I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There’s no window, and Valery is looking at it through an optical sight. I can’t really see that well because it’s between his knees. We have TV images—if you’ve watched the broadcast of a Soyuz docking, like what you see on that screen.

[Assistant] That’s all you see?

[User] That’s what you see.

[Assistant] I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view.

[User] It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool.

[Assistant] That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That’s what you see.

[Assistant] I did not know that. I thought it was a bigger view.

[User] It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool.

[Assistant] That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?

[User] I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work.

[Assistant] I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It’s like a video game. Even on the screen, you’ve got all this data overlay that you’re paying attention to. At the distance you see this—but the screens aren’t big. There’s a certain lack of grandeur. In the Shuttle it’s different. You got all the Shuttle windows, and that’s pretty cool, that’s pretty cool.

[Assistant] That’s interesting though. There’s another big difference I was not aware of. I know there’s a big ceremony after you guys dock and open the hatches. Do you want to talk about that and what that entails?

[User] I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work.

[Assistant] I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point.

[User] There is a bell, there’s a ship’s bell on board. Part of the tradition is you ring the ship’s bell for a crew coming on board. While I was up there Bill Readdy retired, and so as a tribute to a friend of mine—albeit a Navy friend—I rang the ship’s bell to signal his departure from NASA, and he seemed to appreciate that.

[Assistant] I’m sure he did. What sort of information did you get from the Expedition 11 crew? I know they stick around for a while.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t think it’s so much a big ceremony. You come through, the crew that you’re replacing welcomes you, and then pretty quickly you’re going—because you’re pretty tired—you’re probably pretty quickly trying to set up where you’re going to sleep that night. I don’t remember where we were in the schedule, how soon we had dinner, but it’s really pretty quickly getting back to work.

[Assistant] I thought there was a bell someone had told me about at one point.

[User] There is a bell, there’s a ship’s bell on board. Part of the tradition is you ring the ship’s bell for a crew coming on board. While I was up there Bill Readdy retired, and so as a tribute to a friend of mine—albeit a Navy friend—I rang the ship’s bell to signal his departure from NASA, and he seemed to appreciate that.

[Assistant] I’m sure he did. What sort of information did you get from the Expedition 11 crew? I know they stick around for a while.

[User] They tell you a couple things. They’ll show you things that don’t work the way you think they will work based on your training on the ground. For example, there’s a device that’s used to get air that’s trapped in the water—to try to get that out. You want to minimize the bubbles that are in the water that would go into the device called Elektron, which would break water down to provide oxygen. It’s over in the Russian segment.\n\n Basically they give you an orientation on how things are laid out. When I give a presentation, I like to say that part of the handover is they show us where they’ve hidden all the good food. I mean they do. They talk about how the logistics are set up, because on the ground you don’t have dozens upon dozens of food containers, sort of briefcase, small-suitcase size containers with food in them.\n\n What they really show you are the ins and outs of habitability, because a lot of the equipment works the way you think it will, it just may not be where you think it is.

[Assistant] Is that because crews have moved it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, it’s because it’s just limitations on the fidelity of the mockups. The U.S. mockups in particular, we do a lot of pictures. “Here’s a picture of this toolbox,” for example. You go train on the tool; you’ll see all the tools. You’ll see the toolbox, but it won’t be in the deck of the node. It may have a picture of it in the node deck, but that’s not really where it is. Or you look in the node and what you really have is the vestibule for one of the ports, but it’s full of stowage bags. Those are things that are not replicated on the ground. In particular, the stowage volume is at a premium onboard Station. As a matter of fact, there is a degree of chaos on orbit that you just cannot imagine until you’re there.

[Assistant] I think you had mentioned that the first Return to Flight [STS-114] just kind of threw everything in and you had to recover from that.

[User] Oh gosh, they did. At the very forward end of the U.S. Lab [Laboratory (Destiny module)], probably the L1 Soft Stowage Rack, it was completely covered with additional stowage bags on the outside. Part of the management issue was if you needed anything that was stowed in those lockers, you had to first remove all the individual stowage bags that were bungeed on the front.

[Assistant] That’s a lot of work.

[User] Then PMA [pressurized mating adapter]-1, there were a lot of small bags. It was like large bricks, more like cobblestones, just all placed around. And very artfully done, but it was interesting.

[Assistant] I had read you were not guaranteed a seat coming back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let’s see. April, May, June, July—so it would have been another three months. There would have been problems with that. If we couldn’t do that, that means Jeff Williams could not have come up on the Soyuz. I guess what the Russians would have done is probably sent three people up. I would have stayed up with Pavel [V.] Vinogradov, and Marcos [C.] Pontes and then maybe one Russian would have come back with Valery.

[Assistant] Were you concerned at all when you launched?

[User] Not really, no. I kind of thought it was funny. I was less worried about staying up for a longer period of time than I was not having the closure of coming back with Valery. We had trained to go up together, we had trained to be there together, we had trained to return together. So I would have been disappointed not to have had that experience.

[Assistant] You commanded this mission. I wanted to ask if you would talk about being commander of the Expedition and what it entailed.

[User] I think it entailed some level of decision-making, certainly. But if you look at it, the Russians really looked to Valery to make decisions related to the Russian segment and Russian issues. Yes, I was ISS commander and NASA science officer—

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that, too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not really, no. I kind of thought it was funny. I was less worried about staying up for a longer period of time than I was not having the closure of coming back with Valery. We had trained to go up together, we had trained to be there together, we had trained to return together. So I would have been disappointed not to have had that experience.

[Assistant] You commanded this mission. I wanted to ask if you would talk about being commander of the Expedition and what it entailed.

[User] I think it entailed some level of decision-making, certainly. But if you look at it, the Russians really looked to Valery to make decisions related to the Russian segment and Russian issues. Yes, I was ISS commander and NASA science officer—

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that, too.

[User] —but Valery and I were partners in this whole thing. I took the lead for anything related to the U.S. segment. I was the lead for anything that we did here in the States. Similarly, Valery really was the one the Russians looked to for the more critical activities on the Russian segment, and certainly for what we did in Russia.

[Assistant] Would you talk about how much time you spent doing things like housekeeping, maintenance, science?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was just fine; it was just fine. There may have been certain things that I particularly was fond of that they had less of, but it was good. One thing is [Sergei K.] Krikalev had gotten a lot of fruit punch. I don’t think he was very interested in what he selected on his U.S. menu, so there was just a lot of fruit punch. This is that red bug juice-type punch. I didn’t care for that at all, but they also had a lot of Kona coffee. I had put no Kona coffee in my menu selection, so I really enjoyed [it]. That was an upside of having their food.

[Assistant] I’m going to read this quote. One article I read said you had “a reputation for both tidiness and an eagerness to communicate” with the public. I wondered if you would talk about that, and where the reputation for tidiness came from.

[User] I’m not sure. Any locker I opened—and there were a lot. I mentioned that when STS-114 left they just stuffed things wherever they could. I did try very hard—anytime I accessed a storage location, if it was disorganized I tried to leave it better than I found it. I don’t know, I guess somebody somewhere picked up on that, maybe because I’d open it up and complain.

[Assistant] I wasn’t sure if that meant you did a lot of media interviews and people were happy about that.

[User] As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to.

[Assistant] Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m not sure. Any locker I opened—and there were a lot. I mentioned that when STS-114 left they just stuffed things wherever they could. I did try very hard—anytime I accessed a storage location, if it was disorganized I tried to leave it better than I found it. I don’t know, I guess somebody somewhere picked up on that, maybe because I’d open it up and complain.

[Assistant] I wasn’t sure if that meant you did a lot of media interviews and people were happy about that.

[User] As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to.

[Assistant] Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?

[User] I don’t know what a lot or a little would be.

[Assistant] That’s hard to quantify, you’re right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] As far as communicating with the public, there’s the ham radio aspect of that. And I enjoyed doing interviews, I was always willing to.

[Assistant] Was there a lot of interest in this Expedition that you recall?

[User] I don’t know what a lot or a little would be.

[Assistant] That’s hard to quantify, you’re right.

[User] I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy.

[Assistant] I had read that your mission got extended by a week.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t know what a lot or a little would be.

[Assistant] That’s hard to quantify, you’re right.

[User] I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy.

[Assistant] I had read that your mission got extended by a week.

[User] A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half.

[Assistant] Why another week and a half?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t really have something to compare it about. I certainly don’t remember having so many demands that I objected to them. Again though, I was always happy to either do something that was formal or do something that was relatively spur-of-the-moment, such as I think I mentioned Coldplay came into Mission Control. I said, “Yes, I’m happy to talk to whoever is”—especially if it was something that I knew the flight control team would enjoy.

[Assistant] I had read that your mission got extended by a week.

[User] A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half.

[Assistant] Why another week and a half?

[User] It was like 189 days and something. I thought, “Surely we can get to 200 days,” but no. As it was, we landed about an hour before sunrise. Every day that passes, essentially your orbit moves 23 minutes earlier. So if we had delayed another 10 days, that would have been nearly four hours—230 minutes, four hours—so now we would have been landing really like two in the morning.\n\n The downside of that is if there’s a downmode in the landing and you do a ballistic entry, that puts you, I want to say, 250 miles uprange. That now means the search and rescue forces are trying to find you—there are hours of darkness that they would have to search in if they’re trying to get to you right away. I think the Russians wouldn’t have been real pleased with that.

[Assistant] What did your wife think when you told her, “I’m going to be in space a little longer than you anticipated”?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] A week, or something like that. That was good. I wanted it to get extended by another week and a half.

[Assistant] Why another week and a half?

[User] It was like 189 days and something. I thought, “Surely we can get to 200 days,” but no. As it was, we landed about an hour before sunrise. Every day that passes, essentially your orbit moves 23 minutes earlier. So if we had delayed another 10 days, that would have been nearly four hours—230 minutes, four hours—so now we would have been landing really like two in the morning.\n\n The downside of that is if there’s a downmode in the landing and you do a ballistic entry, that puts you, I want to say, 250 miles uprange. That now means the search and rescue forces are trying to find you—there are hours of darkness that they would have to search in if they’re trying to get to you right away. I think the Russians wouldn’t have been real pleased with that.

[Assistant] What did your wife think when you told her, “I’m going to be in space a little longer than you anticipated”?

[User] I think they told us early enough so that it wasn’t like, “Hey, instead of being home in four weeks I’ll be home in five weeks.” I think [I said], “Instead of the 31st of March or the 1st of April it’s going to be the 8th of April.”

[Assistant] One thing we didn’t talk about is getting ready for the next increment. What sort of things did you have to do in preparation for their arrival?